I think the Frontiers homing attack is terrible in the levels because you have to wait like a while second after homing attaching and there's not even combat in those levels so it's very annoying and I don't like using it
“The homing attack doesn’t belong in a 2D game” *casually doesn’t even cover the advance or rush games which have very unique air dashes and homing attacks*
Sonic 4, while not a great game, actually does have a pretty good homing attack as well! It gives you so many opportunities to change your trajectory and path to different areas that the normal wimpy momentum doesn't allow.
Generation’s definitely has the best Boost Homing attack but Colors Ultimate’s Perfect Homing attack is such a simple but genius Mechanic. Hope it comes back in the future
@@AsecasJavi True, I only found out recently changing Prefect Homing Attacks is faster than Mashing the homing attack. They should probably make the timing harder.
Sounds kinda awesome ngl, like if the game gives you a shield at an early part of the stage, then in a middle section or late part there's a shortcut only accesible by having the shield, I like the idea
@@Ssjvaca in that case hide the shield in a room with a bit of exploration needed like a breakable wall above ground so sonic needs to find a fire shield and get trapped in a secret room. The player ,if you give them a bubble shield to bounce on the fire one as well as getting enough height to get back into the main level, then breaks the wall and gets it. (I’m a fan experienced pro level designer)
@@gwainexe9065 the problem is the lackluster level design and the fact that it's permanently in Sonic's moveset in that game, it's all reward, no skill.
I always loved the kinetic feeling the homing attack has in the Boost Trilogy. Not only is the momentum surprising consistent with the speed, the tricks Sonic pulls off after every attack just adds that extra pizazz that perfectly embodies what the character and franchise is all about, high speed with style.
Also note how in Sonic Frontiers, Sonic has a bit of a "freeze frame" of sorts, emphasizing the impact of The Homing Attack. Also, how could you forget Shadow's "combat-oriented" homing attack!?
One thing I think you forgot to mention is that in a few games you can knock enemies into other enemies with homing attacks. I've always liked that trait and i'm kinda curious why it only appears sometimes.
@@sonicheroesfan1 I believe you are correct. It does seem, however, that they are less consistent on if they want to get launched, or simply disintegrate on impact
One thing I always liked were the little tricks Sonic did after a homing attack (or trick singular in Forces' case cause leave it to that game whenever I wanna nitpick). It adds a little flair to a pretty basic attack. I wish he did it in Smash too pulling an Incineroar where the tricks aren't tied to the endlag. Sonic in Smash is an entirely different converstaion though (and not a very positive one).
God, that part of the reason why Cyberspace feels like the weakest part of the game. At least in the open zone area, the pause is because you're able to do combo starters/extenders. In Cyberspace I cringe every time I do a homing attack because you literal can't act until Sonic hits the floor, and it's qorse when you play stages based off of previous games where you had a much better homing attack.
I've always enjoyed the slower feel of the sa2 homing attack. I feel like it makes the hits feel more impactful, and the tricks that sonic performs afterwards are very satisfying to watch.
My hot take. Im actually a big fan of Shadow the hedgehogs homing attack. It has a good deal of accuracy and range. The damage could be better but they did base damage around the gun mechanic.
Yeah, I like how precision based it is, makes it so there's a good distinction between the jump dash and the homing attack whilst still making it so you can't just cheese bosses like the Egg Dealer
Something not mentioned which might just be in my imagination, but I swear that the camera influences the homing attack in later games, and I do not like it. I often feel like I want to homing attack an enemy off to the side, but instead Sonic insists on homing attacking the enemy in front of the camera. It might just be because the camera is more forced in later games and therefore I am not looking at the enemy I want to attack, unlike the Adventure Games which often let the player control the camera full.
If I remember right, in Forces you basically couldn't homing attack anything closer to the camera than Sonic was. You had to back up just to activate it.
To be honest, I really like the 06 homing attack dash, and it was perfected in P-06. The only big problem it had was that the character drops like a rock, and that particular move was perfected in Generations. Too bad it never returned.
this even more noticiable in sonic p06 which had the option of straight(06 and onwards) or legacy(heroes) legacy homing attack keeps your momentum that you build while the straight after doing it you lost your momentum and fall instant in the ground like if you bumped into a wall 5:37
@@fabionoronhazampieri7639 The arc homing attack was to create distance and speed, where the horizontal one followed by a drop was for platforming. I have yet to try the Heroes dash in P-06 but I had a ton of fun learning the distance and eventually knowing exactly where I would end up using it.
@@SnaksiXD so i prefer the heroes aka legacy in p06 better than straight not just because of this momentum thing but because of the animation that he makes
You think? I feel it's the absolute worst, no aerial momentum, slow as hell to execute/cool down and the jump dash has you travel in a perfect horizontal line before suddenly throwing you on the ground
I personally like Sonic Adventure DX's because I love the RNG factor where sometimes it just _misses_ EDIT: Oh yeah, SA2 is also great for this. Loved the Biolizard fight!! 😁😁😁
RNG is pretty important in strategy-based games like RPGs to simulate how things don’t always happen perfectly according to your plan in real life, forcing you to think on the fly and adjust your strategy. RNG has no place in skill-based games like platformers where your success should be dependent on your mastery of the controls. If I die, it should be because I messed up, not because the game randomly decided to screw me over.
I’ve never understood the frustration with SA1&2’s homing attack system. I’ve never had it just straight up miss on me, you just have to tilt the joystick in the right direction
@@CalebRazzleberry SADX specifically (perhaps excluding GCN) just fucked me so hard at the end of Sonic's story. A friend also had an issue with the homing attack missing on the Xbox 360 port (I was using Steam). Meanwhile, I've had no issues on Dreamcast. With SA2, though it works most of the time, the stage of the Biolizard fight where you have to jump off the pink orbs was awful and I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I think the worst part of both is not knowing if it's locked on or not, like in later titles
bro this made me lose a lot of times when fighting the egg viper, it is the worst thing in it in my opinion it made me hate the homing attack of this game because of that.
This kind of brings a new light to a complaint I've seen going around about modern Sonic games, that the homing attack having that little bounce afterwards ruins the pacing and flow. I've never understood this complaint and I realise now that's because my mental image of the homing attack, much like yours, is the one from Heroes. The homing attack is SUPER snappy in that game and you have great air control after the bounce. One of the greatest feelings in Heroes is connecting the homing attack against a boss and getting to just go ham on the motherfucker.
The worst thing about every homing attack from 06 onwards is that after you use it, you fall straight down, which feels awful. And that’s assuming you can even use the attack without there being an enemy to hit. Unrelated, but I love how in both Adventure game and Heroes, sometimes the homing attack would glitch and you would circle around the enemy over and over. It probably wasn’t intentional, but it always felt really cool.
Definitely think your nostalgia bias for Heroes is showing, as the Heroes Homing Attack whiffs about as often as the Shadow Homing Attack, with you randomly sliding off of enemies instead of bouncing. And the Black Knight Buzzsaw was awesome for what it was, with how much nuSonic likes to pad the game out with spongey enemies (I guess beat-em-ups are less effort to develop than fun platformers), its refreshing to just rip right through everything. And you can never emphasize enough just how awful it is that nuHoming Attacks don't arc and just kill your momentum, as if Homing Attack Chains have become poorly disguised loading hallways. But otherwise this was a great video, always happy to see people articulate the things about 3D Sonic that work, even if Sonic Team will never catch wind of it.
My favorite is SA2, from mechanics to sound effects (I also like how in 2 player mode Shadow’s sound is changed). Visually though would be Heroes, I like how it progressively looks more powerful
And keeps your momentum this even more noticiable in sonic p06 which had the option of straight(06 and onwards) or legacy(heroes) legacy homing attack keeps your momentum that you build while the straight after doing it you lost your momentum and fall instant in the ground like if you bumped into a wall
There has to be a middle ground around here somewhere. Maybe the movement speed of the modern games, the Perfect Homing Attack from Colours Ultimate, the delay of SA2, the post-hit momentum of SA1, and the distance of Heroes/Shadow?
8:54 Thats ones the most interesting to me i could see a version of it in frontiers where if sonic successfully lands a kick it'll send out a bunch of homing dashes and spin attacks
"There's so many instances where I feel I should be reaching the enemy" Proceeds to show footage completely overshooting the enemy to the point of being behind the enemy and expecting the input to work.
To me, Generations is the perfected Boost formula. Legit, if you play the unleashed stages with the generations boost gameplay, it’s honestly how it always should have been and makes those levels shine. Especially with the fact that your homing attack isn’t bound to the boost anymore. Big difference. That being said, I personally can’t stand forces/frontiers homing attacks. The homing attack sticks to the enemy way too much after impact, it just takes momentum and speed away too much.
I actually really like the 06 Homing Attack/Air Dash. The fact that you can homing attack stuff directly above you is funny and the straight air dash lets you do some really goofy platforming manoeuvres
I think your bias definitely coloured Sonic Heroes, because in my experience it's got all the same issues as Shadow's, apart from the obvious lack of upgrades for Shadow's.
Even tho it doesn't always work as expected I actually like what they were going for with Lost World when it comes to the added complexity of the homing attack, having the option to either chain a few bounces or kick an enemy into the ones behind it adds some nice variety to the combat without needed to have any health bars. That game had a number of interesting ideas, I wish they had refined the mechanics for a sequel instead of dropping everything in favor of making the most uninspired boost game in the series. BTW it's been years since I played it but I remember Sonic 4 episode 2 improved the homing attack sequences quite a bit over episode 1.
I actually prefer the SA2 homing attack to the one in SA1. It just feels a lot more stronger and a lot more satisfying to pull off. Also, never really had a problem with missing attacks in SA2, but that's just me.
I feel like I whiff homing attacks in Sonic Heroes waaaay more often than in SA2, but maybe that's just a reflection of our individual biases. I much prefer SA2 over Heroes and play it much more often as a result, so I'm probably a lot more used to the intricacies of its homing attack than Heroes' homing attack, whereas the opposite is probably true for you.
Sonic Team likely intended the Homing Attack to be on the jump button in SU before remapping it for some reason (prolly to force you to use the HA on groups of enemies after unlocking the Air Boost, I dunno). SU's Sonic physics file is empty, but if you copypaste the boolean setting "XButtonHoming ("XButton" = Boost button) from SG's physics file which's set to "false", it would work. Removing the setting from either game's Sonic physics file sets it to "true".
I’m surprised that the homing reticle was not mentioned in this vid, especially since that also has diversity. I spose that is a different video topic of its own.
Just to talk a little bit more about the speed of the SA1 homing attack, you can 1 cycle the first eggman boss and it feels AMAZING to hear the garbled cacophony of sound effects as you win the fight in less then a minute.
Special mentions go to Project 06, which not only is instantly actionable after hitting an enemy, but also lets you choose between an improved retail 06 jumpdash, a curved jumpdash from the adventure games, or the heroes jumpdash with preserves your vertical speed up or down.
06, S4, Frontiers and SA have the most consistent/functional homing attacks, they've never failed me. Colors, Lost World, Forces, Unleashed, SA2, ShtH, Heroes, Rivals and Rivals 2, you name it, in all those other games the homing attack feels like a gamble. Some times it won't work, some times it will work but finicky, some times it will get affected by the camera, not a huge fan.
@@markofthewolvessucks8930 funny, i feel like the one guy who never had trouble with the unleashed homing attack, i just listen to the sound cue and try to tilt into a direction
I don't know what version of Unleashed you're referring to (probably the 360/PS3 version), but in the Wii version, if you play with the Wii Remote and Nunchuk like I do, the Homing Attack, Boost, and Light Dash are all mapped to shaking the controller, and while I'd rather have that than two jump buttons, sometimes it can get annoying when you want to Boost and you Light Dash instead or whatever
@@pvzmariosonica8fan I like Lost World's homing attacks and how they lock onto multiple targets as well but some times like the video also demonstrated locking can be a bit unreliable and the camera could mess you up real good if it felt like your time has come 🥴
hey so i noticed you completely skipped over the homing attack in the Sonic Advance trilogy and the DS games (rush, rush adventure, colors DS), the former of which can doubel as an almost light speed dash in Advance 3
Something you didnt mention about Unleashed's homming attack is the target switching. In the air if you move the stick around you switch the reticle so you can attack an enemy thats behind you without facing it. While in forces/frontiers the reticle appears IF THE CAMERA IS FACING THE ENEMY, not even if sonic is facing them like in adventure/06
Another thing that offsets the unleashed homing attack’s liability to send you careening off the stage by way of air boost is the fact that unleashed’s homing attack has an incredibly generous lock on range, probably the longest ranged version of the homing attack with only frontiers coming close, while you might not notice it at first, it becomes incredibly apparent when you compare it to the homing attack in generations, which was heavily nerfed from the unleashed version range-wise.
You know, i actually do prefer sonic heroes, despite never beating the game, i remember the homing attack as being better than the other game I played, being generations. The arc really does make it more applicable, and being able to change air momentum to land safely is a god send. As for lost world, i actually think it would have worked better if you had to hold the button for the kick, and ditch the multi homing attack entirely, or make it like shadows in so- oh god, I'm really complimenting it? We sure? Welp, sonic forces, yeah, surprisingly haven't seen it fuck up once or anyone complaining about the multi homing attack shadow has. It looks to just be tge same as a homing attack, but some enemies are coded to instantly send you to the next instead of having you manually do it. It's like the light speed attack, but it actually works... So like the move knuckles gets in sa1. Seriously, WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THAT, THEY GAVE KNUCKLES THE SOLUTION TO THE LIGHT SPEED ATTACK AND NOBODY NOTICED?
No seriously, it just flies straight, no bullshit, it's got good range, it's very weird that is wasn't used as the reference for sa2, especially given they gave up on it, despite the solution BEING RIGHT THERE, WHAT THE FUCK SEGA?
The homing attack in SA2 is like every move in SA2. You can‘t rely on it. Sometimes it works, but sometimes is a very bad ratio when you try to get all A ranks.
Best Homing Attack: 1.) Sonic Adventure 1-2. 2.) Sonic Unleashed. 3.) Sonic Generations. 4.) Sonic Heros. Worst Homing attack: 1.) Sonic Frontiers. 2.) Sonic Forces. 3.) Shadow the hedgehog. 4.) Sonic 3D Blast. The next video should be which ball animation is better when Sonic curls up. Mines is Unleashed- Generations. Froces and onward looks dull, and it looks like Sonic has a Mohawk design. And he doesn't look like he has energy or looks like the speed of light anymore.
Sonic Adventure's movement is very good, but I was always insanely frustrated by the homing on the homing attack. Even though SA2 improved on it while sacrificing movement and snappiness, almost every 3d game after that came with a reticle controlled better. It also just bolsters my point where in your clips of SA1, where there's clusters of enemies sometimes you just wouldn't hit whatever enemy you were directed at, but in the Shadow clip on Radical Highway for SA2 you overshot the jump while dubbing that there are moments in sa2 where you feel it should hit but it doesn't.
An interesting discussion. It is missing the handheld games, though, plus I imagine the other version of Unleashed probably has different physics on it. At the very least I know it still has it on the jump button.
Great video but I found you missed mentioning a few things about some of them: -The funny dissing of Secret Rings was kinda counterproductive cause not only could you expand on how it sucks at first but then you get better skills to make it so much better and longer, but also mention the fact that it's also on a downward arc that carries your momentum a la SA1 -It was also the first game to feature the homing reticle, not Unleashed -Colors and Forces having a long recoil time like Shadow and 06 when Unleashed and Gens' are faster and feel smoother to perform -Also Frontiers does this too but with a camera shake and a split second timestop (it hits harder but imo I wish it wasn't there cause it makes chains feel slower than they should (and we have existing levels in Cyberspace to compare) also you said BK's was a worse version of SR's homing attack but it's higher on the tierlist lol
This video reminded me of sonic's homing attack in LEGO Dimensions and how BROKEN it is not just in damage but in how it handles the air boost because in the game the homing attack basically puts you up to full speed in the game and sonic is REALLY fast in the game compared to speedy characters in lego games so basically if you dont want to gain speed you can just homing attack and be at full speed and not only that if you homing attack an enemy you keep the momentum after bouncing off them. also like there is barely any cooldown. (probably so you can keep on attacking breakable things quickly) Sonic in general is just broken in game because he can like run on any wall as long as you can kinda angle yourself going up it.
I agree heroes has the best homing attack but I'd also say that SA2 has the second best. I just prefer the extra distance you get from the air dash in SA2 compared to SA1. Also the buzzsaw homing attack from Black Knight is probably my third favorite. It's just super satisfying to slash through a huge line of enemies with one long continuous homing attack. Black Knight is an underrated game.
Id put black knight above 3d blast simply because that buzzsaw technique feels really good and fast. That made me feel like the same sonic that took out all of King Author’s minions in the openingcutscene
i actually really like the secret rings homing attack for the sound design and the cool recovery animations also shadow's homing attack... doesn't have a long cooldown? idk what game you were playing lol you can spam that attack, it's the in-air acceleration that's slower
4:57 -Jump past GUN beetle -use Homing Attack/Airdash -miss because you jumped past the enemy -blame the homing attack reach for some reason??? 4:37 I think the blue aura is meant to be an indicator for if you have an Airdash available, since using the Airdash takes away the aura. 9:08 Also I think SA2 had multiple animations for post-homing attack as well
Theres a thing you can do in the adventure game where when you do a homing attack around a coupler of enemies (or a singular one) then sonic can occasionally spin around them multiple times until hit can hit them (this is rare tho, i managed to get it three times)
The problem with the homing attack in general is that it kills momentum on impact, which is counter-inuitive for a Sonic game. The exception is the balloons in Unleashed and Generations, those create far more interesting targets for the HA.
In Shadow the Hedgehog, there is no real cooldown for the homing attack, you can do it as fast as you want to, and the massive range makes up for this, as it can easily fall off enemies if you spam it
Heroes' homing attack basically has it all. It's a good jump extender, carries momentum, arcs satisfyingly, has a SICK comet trail-like effect, is spammable, has decent horizontal range (though a target indicator wouldn't hurt) and good utility for the game itself. Its downside is the lack of much vertical range: whatever's above Sonic cannot be targeted. I know this isn't applicable to the official games, but P-06 with the Legacy Jump Dash type might just supplant Heroes as my favourite homing attack type. It's got everything mentioned previously, probably with the sole exception of the comet trail. But in return for feeling awesome, I can overlook that.
Heroes homing attack keeps your momentum this even more noticiable in sonic p06 which had the option of straight(06 and onwards) or legacy(heroes) legacy homing attack keeps your momentum that you build while the straight after doing it you lost your momentum and fall instant in the ground like if you bumped into a wall or drop like a rock 5:37
Actually, about 06 I think it's more of how laggy and buggy the game is that leaves you frozen on the air with no response that it just happens to look like that, but I had many moments where I could chain quickly various Homming Attacks instead of waiting for the whole jump momentum after the hit... Like, many of the bugs and animations on the game
around 11:00 you talk about sonic and his inconsistent moveset, well Mario's is pretty inconsistent as well, one game he can triple jump the next he can't. one game he takes fall damage the other game he doesn't. its weird
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Do a video where you talk about the sonic voice actors for other languages
Too expensive
no shut up
@@Truehexptsd YES
I think the Frontiers homing attack is terrible in the levels because you have to wait like a while second after homing attaching and there's not even combat in those levels so it's very annoying and I don't like using it
“The homing attack doesn’t belong in a 2D game” *casually doesn’t even cover the advance or rush games which have very unique air dashes and homing attacks*
Advance games only let you do it if you’re close idk bout rush tho
@@MJGaming57_REAL In rush, it functions almost exactly like most of the 3D homing attacks.
@@FlamingFoxProd makes sense there because how fast the boost is so you could pass by an enemy too quickly
Let's not forget Sonic Rivals, which also has a unique homing attack
Sonic 4, while not a great game, actually does have a pretty good homing attack as well! It gives you so many opportunities to change your trajectory and path to different areas that the normal wimpy momentum doesn't allow.
How *dare* you not say more about Secret Rings.
That was the first game where the Homing Attack had a *RETICLE.*
YEAH
It also didn't work lmao. I was going mad playing that game with how jank the homing attack was
@@humantwister9209jank boteko ❤️ didi
I agree
Generation’s definitely has the best Boost Homing attack but Colors Ultimate’s Perfect Homing attack is such a simple but genius Mechanic. Hope it comes back in the future
It is But for a delayed homing attack is counterintuitive to fail it on purpose. Also without score it would make sense only if it does more damage
@@AsecasJavi True, I only found out recently changing Prefect Homing Attacks is faster than Mashing the homing attack. They should probably make the timing harder.
@@Terminal_Apotos on hit maybe
My right ear agrees, my left ear DOES NOT
Wait I thought you hated colors ultimate lol
I’d be down for the Homing Shield to be added in a new 2D Sonic game. Maybe they could have an occasional homing chain to lead to secret areas
NEVERrrRr
Sounds kinda awesome ngl, like if the game gives you a shield at an early part of the stage, then in a middle section or late part there's a shortcut only accesible by having the shield, I like the idea
@@Ssjvaca in that case hide the shield in a room with a bit of exploration needed like a breakable wall above ground so sonic needs to find a fire shield and get trapped in a secret room. The player ,if you give them a bubble shield to bounce on the fire one as well as getting enough height to get back into the main level, then breaks the wall and gets it. (I’m a fan experienced pro level designer)
Sonic 4: bruh.
@@gwainexe9065 the problem is the lackluster level design and the fact that it's permanently in Sonic's moveset in that game, it's all reward, no skill.
Fun fact: the homing attack is in advance 2, advance 3, rush, adventure and colors DS
The Rush games perfected it.
yeah wtf why he forget the best sonic games
@@mrbanks456you keep some momentum but it barely fucking homes in it's annoying
I always loved the kinetic feeling the homing attack has in the Boost Trilogy. Not only is the momentum surprising consistent with the speed, the tricks Sonic pulls off after every attack just adds that extra pizazz that perfectly embodies what the character and franchise is all about, high speed with style.
Boost trilogy? Oh yeah lost world broke up Gens and forces
The tricks he does reminds me of him being a skater dude bc he would always turn things into a damn skateboard/snowboard. 😭 it needs to come back.
Also note how in Sonic Frontiers, Sonic has a bit of a "freeze frame" of sorts, emphasizing the impact of The Homing Attack.
Also, how could you forget Shadow's "combat-oriented" homing attack!?
Its so jarring when he homimg attacks in cyberspace its so slow
@@petergriffinsbrother2499
That is sorta the point, you're supposed to avoid enemies in Cyberspace.
@@sonicdml4175source: trust me bro
@@thedman1754
Based on how the stages are designed, it seems like you're almost always meant to dodge them.
@@thedman1754 then try to S rank 1-2 attacking the enemies
One thing I think you forgot to mention is that in a few games you can knock enemies into other enemies with homing attacks. I've always liked that trait and i'm kinda curious why it only appears sometimes.
Only game I remember doing that was unleashed, which was based
@@FrankieFrak-Frakityfranker Gens does this too iirc, I've definitely seen that done in the game (e.g.: the Rouge mission)
@@sonicheroesfan1 I believe you are correct. It does seem, however, that they are less consistent on if they want to get launched, or simply disintegrate on impact
Yeah loved that in Unleashed. The ragdolls mixed with the Sound they made was so satisfying, like knocking a Tin Can into another
Lost World had something similar going on
One thing I always liked were the little tricks Sonic did after a homing attack (or trick singular in Forces' case cause leave it to that game whenever I wanna nitpick). It adds a little flair to a pretty basic attack. I wish he did it in Smash too pulling an Incineroar where the tricks aren't tied to the endlag. Sonic in Smash is an entirely different converstaion though (and not a very positive one).
I have an idea for a complete Sonic rework in Smash
@@pvzmariosonica8fan Almost everyone’s got an idea to rework sonic in smash, he’s pretty bad.
@@SSKJ64 I doubt anyone else has an idea better than mine
we not gonna talk about the insane pause sonic takes after every homing attack in frontiers?
Apparently not!
God, that part of the reason why Cyberspace feels like the weakest part of the game. At least in the open zone area, the pause is because you're able to do combo starters/extenders. In Cyberspace I cringe every time I do a homing attack because you literal can't act until Sonic hits the floor, and it's qorse when you play stages based off of previous games where you had a much better homing attack.
It's actually just as fast as SA2's Homing Attack.
@@jamainegardner4193 true timing-wise, but the animation is a lot more stilted and that makes for a worse feel imo
I've always enjoyed the slower feel of the sa2 homing attack. I feel like it makes the hits feel more impactful, and the tricks that sonic performs afterwards are very satisfying to watch.
I never haved problems with sa2 homing attack
My hot take. Im actually a big fan of Shadow the hedgehogs homing attack. It has a good deal of accuracy and range. The damage could be better but they did base damage around the gun mechanic.
Yeah, I like how precision based it is, makes it so there's a good distinction between the jump dash and the homing attack whilst still making it so you can't just cheese bosses like the Egg Dealer
Sonic Lost World is a unique case where its animated well in terms of the move set, but it doesn't play well. I feel the same applies to Shadow.
Something not mentioned which might just be in my imagination, but I swear that the camera influences the homing attack in later games, and I do not like it. I often feel like I want to homing attack an enemy off to the side, but instead Sonic insists on homing attacking the enemy in front of the camera. It might just be because the camera is more forced in later games and therefore I am not looking at the enemy I want to attack, unlike the Adventure Games which often let the player control the camera full.
If I remember right, in Forces you basically couldn't homing attack anything closer to the camera than Sonic was. You had to back up just to activate it.
Can't wait for the "Which Sonic Game Has The BEST Fire Somersault?" video. I bet SD's bias and nostalgia will cause him to pick the SA2 version smh.
I miss the blue hue streak. I pray for it to be added back within these next updates back in frontiers. :'(
It's so weird that the way the homing attacks works changes with almost every game that it's actually fascinating.
To be honest, I really like the 06 homing attack dash, and it was perfected in P-06. The only big problem it had was that the character drops like a rock, and that particular move was perfected in Generations. Too bad it never returned.
this even more noticiable in sonic p06 which had the option of straight(06 and onwards) or legacy(heroes) legacy homing attack keeps your momentum that you build while the straight after doing it you lost your momentum and fall instant in the ground like if you bumped into a wall 5:37
@@fabionoronhazampieri7639 The arc homing attack was to create distance and speed, where the horizontal one followed by a drop was for platforming. I have yet to try the Heroes dash in P-06 but I had a ton of fun learning the distance and eventually knowing exactly where I would end up using it.
@@SnaksiXD so i prefer the heroes aka legacy in p06 better than straight not just because of this momentum thing but because of the animation that he makes
You think? I feel it's the absolute worst, no aerial momentum, slow as hell to execute/cool down and the jump dash has you travel in a perfect horizontal line before suddenly throwing you on the ground
I personally like Sonic Adventure DX's because I love the RNG factor where sometimes it just _misses_
EDIT: Oh yeah, SA2 is also great for this. Loved the Biolizard fight!! 😁😁😁
😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁😁
RNG is pretty important in strategy-based games like RPGs to simulate how things don’t always happen perfectly according to your plan in real life, forcing you to think on the fly and adjust your strategy.
RNG has no place in skill-based games like platformers where your success should be dependent on your mastery of the controls. If I die, it should be because I messed up, not because the game randomly decided to screw me over.
I’ve never understood the frustration with SA1&2’s homing attack system. I’ve never had it just straight up miss on me, you just have to tilt the joystick in the right direction
@@CalebRazzleberry SADX specifically (perhaps excluding GCN) just fucked me so hard at the end of Sonic's story. A friend also had an issue with the homing attack missing on the Xbox 360 port (I was using Steam). Meanwhile, I've had no issues on Dreamcast.
With SA2, though it works most of the time, the stage of the Biolizard fight where you have to jump off the pink orbs was awful and I would not wish it on my worst enemy. I think the worst part of both is not knowing if it's locked on or not, like in later titles
bro this made me lose a lot of times when fighting the egg viper, it is the worst thing in it in my opinion it made me hate the homing attack of this game because of that.
This kind of brings a new light to a complaint I've seen going around about modern Sonic games, that the homing attack having that little bounce afterwards ruins the pacing and flow. I've never understood this complaint and I realise now that's because my mental image of the homing attack, much like yours, is the one from Heroes. The homing attack is SUPER snappy in that game and you have great air control after the bounce. One of the greatest feelings in Heroes is connecting the homing attack against a boss and getting to just go ham on the motherfucker.
Heroes is the definitive homing attack to me. The amount of control you get from is neat. The visual effect pretty cool as well.
I thought this was an OreoGod video at first. They reviewed the reticles, and you're doing the actual attack.
Adventure 1's homing attack seems to have been completed he was able to rise into the air after attacking
SA2 has multiple homing attack animations as well, first and best to do it
The worst thing about every homing attack from 06 onwards is that after you use it, you fall straight down, which feels awful. And that’s assuming you can even use the attack without there being an enemy to hit.
Unrelated, but I love how in both Adventure game and Heroes, sometimes the homing attack would glitch and you would circle around the enemy over and over. It probably wasn’t intentional, but it always felt really cool.
Imagine an alternate universe where splash dash analyzes Mario's ground pound over the years
i love how sonics jump looks from forces and frontiers, it looks like a modern interpretation of the classic ball jump
Yeah I love how he does tricks after a homing attack in SA2, Heroes, Storybook games, and the boost games (not you Forces)
Definitely think your nostalgia bias for Heroes is showing, as the Heroes Homing Attack whiffs about as often as the Shadow Homing Attack, with you randomly sliding off of enemies instead of bouncing. And the Black Knight Buzzsaw was awesome for what it was, with how much nuSonic likes to pad the game out with spongey enemies (I guess beat-em-ups are less effort to develop than fun platformers), its refreshing to just rip right through everything. And you can never emphasize enough just how awful it is that nuHoming Attacks don't arc and just kill your momentum, as if Homing Attack Chains have become poorly disguised loading hallways. But otherwise this was a great video, always happy to see people articulate the things about 3D Sonic that work, even if Sonic Team will never catch wind of it.
Yeah sonic heros fucking sucks.
My favorite is SA2, from mechanics to sound effects (I also like how in 2 player mode Shadow’s sound is changed). Visually though would be Heroes, I like how it progressively looks more powerful
And keeps your momentum this even more noticiable in sonic p06 which had the option of straight(06 and onwards) or legacy(heroes) legacy homing attack keeps your momentum that you build while the straight after doing it you lost your momentum and fall instant in the ground like if you bumped into a wall
Does that only happen in 2 player mode in all versions?
This was in my suggestions, but i had a feeling this was one of LS Mark’s channels. After seeing that ad segway, I’m sure it’s him 😂
There has to be a middle ground around here somewhere. Maybe the movement speed of the modern games, the Perfect Homing Attack from Colours Ultimate, the delay of SA2, the post-hit momentum of SA1, and the distance of Heroes/Shadow?
The Homing Attack is such a staple of the Sonic Franchise! It's interesting to see the many different incarnations across all the games!😤😤
You failed to mention that the delay in frontiers homing attack stays in cyberspace which does not work in the already existing level design
^THIS
I was waiting for him to mention that but he never did lol.
I just realized you're LS Mark for the first time after watching like a dozen of your videos over the past year.
Love your content!
Need that spindash one out soon Mark my man
I agree.
can't wait for a detailed breakdown of how the number of revs to get a full strength spindash changes from game to game 👌👌👌🔥
8:54 Thats ones the most interesting to me i could see a version of it in frontiers where if sonic successfully lands a kick it'll send out a bunch of homing dashes and spin attacks
"There's so many instances where I feel I should be reaching the enemy"
Proceeds to show footage completely overshooting the enemy to the point of being behind the enemy and expecting the input to work.
Splashdash is IGN CONFIRMED!???
To me, Generations is the perfected Boost formula. Legit, if you play the unleashed stages with the generations boost gameplay, it’s honestly how it always should have been and makes those levels shine. Especially with the fact that your homing attack isn’t bound to the boost anymore. Big difference.
That being said, I personally can’t stand forces/frontiers homing attacks. The homing attack sticks to the enemy way too much after impact, it just takes momentum and speed away too much.
I actually really like the 06 Homing Attack/Air Dash. The fact that you can homing attack stuff directly above you is funny and the straight air dash lets you do some really goofy platforming manoeuvres
I think your bias definitely coloured Sonic Heroes, because in my experience it's got all the same issues as Shadow's, apart from the obvious lack of upgrades for Shadow's.
Can't wait for spindash vid to establish mania supremacy
Even tho it doesn't always work as expected I actually like what they were going for with Lost World when it comes to the added complexity of the homing attack, having the option to either chain a few bounces or kick an enemy into the ones behind it adds some nice variety to the combat without needed to have any health bars. That game had a number of interesting ideas, I wish they had refined the mechanics for a sequel instead of dropping everything in favor of making the most uninspired boost game in the series.
BTW it's been years since I played it but I remember Sonic 4 episode 2 improved the homing attack sequences quite a bit over episode 1.
I actually prefer the SA2 homing attack to the one in SA1. It just feels a lot more stronger and a lot more satisfying to pull off. Also, never really had a problem with missing attacks in SA2, but that's just me.
This man will make any video he can that gives him an excuse to say "Sonic Heroes is the best and Sonic Adventure 2 is bad" lmao
(love you man)
>i like the adventure 1 a lot cuz he curls into a ball
>I hate the colors and forward one cuz he curls into a ball and i want to see sonic at least
I feel like I whiff homing attacks in Sonic Heroes waaaay more often than in SA2, but maybe that's just a reflection of our individual biases. I much prefer SA2 over Heroes and play it much more often as a result, so I'm probably a lot more used to the intricacies of its homing attack than Heroes' homing attack, whereas the opposite is probably true for you.
Sonic Team likely intended the Homing Attack to be on the jump button in SU before remapping it for some reason (prolly to force you to use the HA on groups of enemies after unlocking the Air Boost, I dunno). SU's Sonic physics file is empty, but if you copypaste the boolean setting "XButtonHoming ("XButton" = Boost button) from SG's physics file which's set to "false", it would work. Removing the setting from either game's Sonic physics file sets it to "true".
I'm surprised Shadow the Hedgehog didn't get second to last with how bad you said it was. XD
I’m surprised that the homing reticle was not mentioned in this vid, especially since that also has diversity. I spose that is a different video topic of its own.
Just to talk a little bit more about the speed of the SA1 homing attack, you can 1 cycle the first eggman boss and it feels AMAZING to hear the garbled cacophony of sound effects as you win the fight in less then a minute.
Special mentions go to Project 06, which not only is instantly actionable after hitting an enemy, but also lets you choose between an improved retail 06 jumpdash, a curved jumpdash from the adventure games, or the heroes jumpdash with preserves your vertical speed up or down.
How have you not modded your copy of Adventure to fix the visuals and bugs?? Doesn't everyone know about this by now?
@8:52-.-Ok, secret rings's is actually pretty satisfying (when attacking an enemy).
06, S4, Frontiers and SA have the most consistent/functional homing attacks, they've never failed me. Colors, Lost World, Forces, Unleashed, SA2, ShtH, Heroes, Rivals and Rivals 2, you name it, in all those other games the homing attack feels like a gamble. Some times it won't work, some times it will work but finicky, some times it will get affected by the camera, not a huge fan.
Unleashed almost always fails to me.
@@markofthewolvessucks8930 funny, i feel like the one guy who never had trouble with the unleashed homing attack, i just listen to the sound cue and try to tilt into a direction
I don't know what version of Unleashed you're referring to (probably the 360/PS3 version), but in the Wii version, if you play with the Wii Remote and Nunchuk like I do, the Homing Attack, Boost, and Light Dash are all mapped to shaking the controller, and while I'd rather have that than two jump buttons, sometimes it can get annoying when you want to Boost and you Light Dash instead or whatever
And I quite like Lost World's Homing Attack (I have the 3DS version), especially how it can lock onto multiple objects at once
@@pvzmariosonica8fan I like Lost World's homing attacks and how they lock onto multiple targets as well but some times like the video also demonstrated locking can be a bit unreliable and the camera could mess you up real good if it felt like your time has come 🥴
more sonic heroes justice, just what one man needs for his life
hey so i noticed you completely skipped over the homing attack in the Sonic Advance trilogy and the DS games (rush, rush adventure, colors DS), the former of which can doubel as an almost light speed dash in Advance 3
A positive for Forces is the particle effects for the trail behind Sonic (and Shadow) being really nice to watch.
Something you didnt mention about Unleashed's homming attack is the target switching. In the air if you move the stick around you switch the reticle so you can attack an enemy thats behind you without facing it. While in forces/frontiers the reticle appears IF THE CAMERA IS FACING THE ENEMY, not even if sonic is facing them like in adventure/06
Finally someone made a video about this.
Another thing that offsets the unleashed homing attack’s liability to send you careening off the stage by way of air boost is the fact that unleashed’s homing attack has an incredibly generous lock on range, probably the longest ranged version of the homing attack with only frontiers coming close, while you might not notice it at first, it becomes incredibly apparent when you compare it to the homing attack in generations, which was heavily nerfed from the unleashed version range-wise.
I think Sonic Adventure 2 is the best personally as every hit feels very impactful but maybe that's just me.
You know, i actually do prefer sonic heroes, despite never beating the game, i remember the homing attack as being better than the other game I played, being generations. The arc really does make it more applicable, and being able to change air momentum to land safely is a god send. As for lost world, i actually think it would have worked better if you had to hold the button for the kick, and ditch the multi homing attack entirely, or make it like shadows in so- oh god, I'm really complimenting it? We sure? Welp, sonic forces, yeah, surprisingly haven't seen it fuck up once or anyone complaining about the multi homing attack shadow has. It looks to just be tge same as a homing attack, but some enemies are coded to instantly send you to the next instead of having you manually do it. It's like the light speed attack, but it actually works... So like the move knuckles gets in sa1. Seriously, WHY IS NOBODY TALKING ABOUT THAT, THEY GAVE KNUCKLES THE SOLUTION TO THE LIGHT SPEED ATTACK AND NOBODY NOTICED?
No seriously, it just flies straight, no bullshit, it's got good range, it's very weird that is wasn't used as the reference for sa2, especially given they gave up on it, despite the solution BEING RIGHT THERE, WHAT THE FUCK SEGA?
6:43 that's the point the homing attack is this big deal physically lifting shadow in the air it's more for dramatic effect
The homing attack in SA2 is like every move in SA2. You can‘t rely on it. Sometimes it works, but sometimes is a very bad ratio when you try to get all A ranks.
Best Homing Attack:
1.) Sonic Adventure 1-2.
2.) Sonic Unleashed.
3.) Sonic Generations.
4.) Sonic Heros.
Worst Homing attack:
1.) Sonic Frontiers.
2.) Sonic Forces.
3.) Shadow the hedgehog.
4.) Sonic 3D Blast.
The next video should be which ball animation is better when Sonic curls up. Mines is Unleashed- Generations. Froces and onward looks dull, and it looks like Sonic has a Mohawk design. And he doesn't look like he has energy or looks like the speed of light anymore.
Looks like SOMEONE forgot Advance 2 and 3. =)
Sonic Adventure's movement is very good, but I was always insanely frustrated by the homing on the homing attack. Even though SA2 improved on it while sacrificing movement and snappiness, almost every 3d game after that came with a reticle controlled better.
It also just bolsters my point where in your clips of SA1, where there's clusters of enemies sometimes you just wouldn't hit whatever enemy you were directed at, but in the Shadow clip on Radical Highway for SA2 you overshot the jump while dubbing that there are moments in sa2 where you feel it should hit but it doesn't.
An interesting discussion. It is missing the handheld games, though, plus I imagine the other version of Unleashed probably has different physics on it. At the very least I know it still has it on the jump button.
Great video but I found you missed mentioning a few things about some of them:
-The funny dissing of Secret Rings was kinda counterproductive cause not only could you expand on how it sucks at first but then you get better skills to make it so much better and longer, but also mention the fact that it's also on a downward arc that carries your momentum a la SA1
-It was also the first game to feature the homing reticle, not Unleashed
-Colors and Forces having a long recoil time like Shadow and 06 when Unleashed and Gens' are faster and feel smoother to perform
-Also Frontiers does this too but with a camera shake and a split second timestop (it hits harder but imo I wish it wasn't there cause it makes chains feel slower than they should (and we have existing levels in Cyberspace to compare)
also you said BK's was a worse version of SR's homing attack but it's higher on the tierlist lol
This video reminded me of sonic's homing attack in LEGO Dimensions and how BROKEN it is not just in damage but in how it handles the air boost because in the game the homing attack basically puts you up to full speed in the game and sonic is REALLY fast in the game compared to speedy characters in lego games so basically if you dont want to gain speed you can just homing attack and be at full speed and not only that if you homing attack an enemy you keep the momentum after bouncing off them. also like there is barely any cooldown. (probably so you can keep on attacking breakable things quickly) Sonic in general is just broken in game because he can like run on any wall as long as you can kinda angle yourself going up it.
I agree heroes has the best homing attack but I'd also say that SA2 has the second best. I just prefer the extra distance you get from the air dash in SA2 compared to SA1. Also the buzzsaw homing attack from Black Knight is probably my third favorite. It's just super satisfying to slash through a huge line of enemies with one long continuous homing attack. Black Knight is an underrated game.
the spindash ranking will be a legendary time to be a splash dash viewer
I always loved the noises sonic makes when he homing attacks in sonic 06
Id put black knight above 3d blast simply because that buzzsaw technique feels really good and fast. That made me feel like the same sonic that took out all of King Author’s minions in the openingcutscene
Personally,I think Bababooey adventure 1 & 2 has the best homing attack
i actually really like the secret rings homing attack for the sound design and the cool recovery animations
also shadow's homing attack... doesn't have a long cooldown? idk what game you were playing lol you can spam that attack, it's the in-air acceleration that's slower
4:57
-Jump past GUN beetle
-use Homing Attack/Airdash
-miss because you jumped past the enemy
-blame the homing attack reach for some reason???
4:37
I think the blue aura is meant to be an indicator for if you have an Airdash available, since using the Airdash takes away the aura.
9:08
Also I think SA2 had multiple animations for post-homing attack as well
Theres a thing you can do in the adventure game where when you do a homing attack around a coupler of enemies (or a singular one) then sonic can occasionally spin around them multiple times until hit can hit them (this is rare tho, i managed to get it three times)
The problem with the homing attack in general is that it kills momentum on impact, which is counter-inuitive for a Sonic game. The exception is the balloons in Unleashed and Generations, those create far more interesting targets for the HA.
In Shadow the Hedgehog, there is no real cooldown for the homing attack, you can do it as fast as you want to, and the massive range makes up for this, as it can easily fall off enemies if you spam it
Heroes' homing attack basically has it all. It's a good jump extender, carries momentum, arcs satisfyingly, has a SICK comet trail-like effect, is spammable, has decent horizontal range (though a target indicator wouldn't hurt) and good utility for the game itself. Its downside is the lack of much vertical range: whatever's above Sonic cannot be targeted.
I know this isn't applicable to the official games, but P-06 with the Legacy Jump Dash type might just supplant Heroes as my favourite homing attack type. It's got everything mentioned previously, probably with the sole exception of the comet trail. But in return for feeling awesome, I can overlook that.
What the hell is up with only Sonic TH-camrs loving Sonic Heroes and having a bias towards it
Cause some people praise it like it's the second coming of god .
I suggest watching Matthasnocuts then.
Heroes homing attack keeps your momentum this even more noticiable in sonic p06 which had the option of straight(06 and onwards) or legacy(heroes) legacy homing attack keeps your momentum that you build while the straight after doing it you lost your momentum and fall instant in the ground like if you bumped into a wall or drop like a rock 5:37
Actually, about 06 I think it's more of how laggy and buggy the game is that leaves you frozen on the air with no response that it just happens to look like that, but I had many moments where I could chain quickly various Homming Attacks instead of waiting for the whole jump momentum after the hit... Like, many of the bugs and animations on the game
Not sure if this was in Generation's but classic can now use homing attack as one of his skills!
13:20 homing attack rank for those without reading homing attack
8:09 WOAH THAT LOOKS REALLY COOL
heroes definitely has the best one the flips they do after is so fun to look at
this is the the type of sonic ranking I never thought I wanted
The Dreamcast version is the best controls wise for SA amd SA2, graphics are better on the GameCube but with some graphical issues and bad controls.
around 11:00 you talk about sonic and his inconsistent moveset, well Mario's is pretty inconsistent as well, one game he can triple jump the next he can't. one game he takes fall damage the other game he doesn't. its weird
Well usually it's the 3d games where he can triple jump and take fall damage and it's the 2d ones where he can't triple jump or take fall damage
I like the home dash it make it feel like the 2d game era able to bounce of
Enemies
If fangames count, I say that Sonic GT's is the best.
GT, Utopia, and Islands are the big three in terms of momentum based homing attacks IMO.
Also, good to see you here :)
Common GT W
Shadow The Hedgehog 05 Is Honestly Over Hated In My Opinion.
great video! but you forgot the advance, rush, and colors ds homing attack.
Imo Sonics homing attack should have forward momentum in 3d and have a vertical launch in 2d
can you appreciate all of Sonic's abilities?