What Economists get wrong - Taimur Rahman on the Left's Economic Alternative -
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 ก.ค. 2024
- Taimur Rahman is a Pakistani college professor, political activist and musician who is the Secretary-General of the Mazdoor Kisan Party, formerly Communist Mazdoor Kissan Party. He is the lead guitarist and spokesperson for the progressive music band Laal.
Dr. Taimur Rahman comes back on The Pakistan Experience to discuss the Left's Economic Alternatives, the shortfalls of Neoliberal Economic theory, Privatization, Bhutto's Nationalization, and why the Left in Pakistan doesn't unite.
The Pakistan Experience is an independently produced podcast looking to tell stories about Pakistan through conversations.
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The podcast is hosted by comedian and writer, Shehzad Ghias Shaikh. Shehzad is a Fulbright scholar with a Masters in Theatre from Brooklyn College. He is also one of the foremost Stand-up comedians in Pakistan and frequently writes for numerous publications.
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Chapters:
0:00 Is IMF Pakistan’s only option?
5:15 is IMF nefarious?
13:00 Dollars, Exports and Trade Competitive
21:00 IMF Directing Pakistan’s Policy
29:30 Establishment controlling policy
36:00 Bhutto’s Nationalization
42:00 Privatisation and Questioning the Free Market Economy
52:00 Private Banks, State Bank and Lending
1:02:00 Private Enterprise vs State Production
1:13:30 Privatisation of PIA
1:17:50 Audience Questions
1:24:00 Divisions in the Left in Pakistan
1:37:00 Imran Khan and Neo-colonial state
1:38:00 Identity Politics
1:40:30 Q and A - บันเทิง
India showed about 30 years ago that you can walk out of the IMF program and need never go back.
Pakistan rejected that model simply because it is an Indian model.
It is not about India Model,
Challenges that facing in Pakistan.
1.Army influence not allowing them at certain levels.
2. Clearly, we can see they don't have proper education system and curriculums, which can produce skilled human resources to nation and in world demand.
3. Pakistan don't have prominent Industries that can take them to next level. But India had More than 10 Companies at that time internationally known.
4. Political parties and media maintained some discipline when india facing crisis, but in pak, Political parties, Army and Media tearing them and creating panic among peoples.
5. People in pak are not progressive mindset, they don't have any idea what to demand from their own govt. Still media try to criticise govts there, bit fail to educate farmers, students, womens, and daily wagers.
in pak they speak about top level reforms and never think about ground level reforms.
Pakistan has advantage, bcoz nation is mainly controlled by one religion only, bit failed.
Mostly, In pakisthan people leave nation when country is in crisis and migrate, that's their habit, they won't take part in building in nation.
US and China spoiled Pakistan by lending easy moneu whenever they need in past and present.
Being Islamic nations and top economy's Saudi and UAE they forced to write cheques for pakisthan.
Pakistan failed to take advantage their support.
😂😂😂😂😂
@@manhar3891
I don't agree with you. It is not like they didn't want to adapt the model because it was India. First, that time also it was IMF who twisted Indian government arm. Because India was a socialist state.
Second, Pakistan always funded by USA to fight their war in form of different welfare schemes by international institution. So they never need to think about repayments.
Fighting war for west they made their people radical.
All the resources come from other privince and enjoyed by Panjab only.
They have some good industrialist. But will take long time with hard work.
Brain drain was happening in India (still it does), India was also so depressed. But India against corruption did work. While I don't like Kejriwal. But that movement changed the central government. We were questioning hiw China grew and why are we using Chinese products even a pin.
They started asking right questions. Like 11 years back Indians did.
If rulers start thinking for the country still Pakistan will take more time due to radical population.
@@sarvajanhitaay that's exactly what it was. pakistan has always made the opposite decision of India just to show they are different. results are there for all to see
This is a very good discussion.
As someone who studies Economics, especially Modern Monetary Theory. I believe I should rewatch and review.
Lets start
2:41
In my Opinion, a free floating Pakistani Rupee is required. When you fix the conversion rate it doesn't mean that people cannot convert the Rupees at unsanctioned rate. It means that the central bank will have to back the Rupees in exchange of dollars. This means that you will end up depleting dollars just to defend your currency. Yes your imports will become expensive but the price will soon stabilise. And yes your debt obligations will increase in Rupee terms but thinking that fixing the exchange rate will save you money is wrong way of thinking. It will cost you even more as the cost of defending Pakistani Rupee will be even higher. This has been proven by Economic models for decades now.
5:40 Yes Pakistan is too dependent on import but if Pakistan saves money by reducing Military spending, they will be able to impose good impactful changes. India went to IMF in 1991 and did not have to go again. Bangladesh, a nation which does go to IMF more often, has even less resources than Pakistan but brought about correct changes and improved.
11:55 Virtually Every country controls the exchange rate in some capacity but the Exchange rate should be mindfully and realistically set. India had similar problems in 91. Pakistan doesn't even attempt to reform service sector.
16:16 yes that is true and correct.
18:49 Beggars can't be choosers. Just because the majority in the country has decided something doesn't mean that it is good. Segregation in USA was democratic. Do you have the right to implement the policies you want. Yes. But then you can't crib and complain about things not going your way.
21:22 No IMF has not stopped you from doing all of these thing. Your Army has.
Janab aapne kabhi IMF ki baatien nahi mani hain.
23:20 I am not informed on this but if this is true then it makes no sense. Taimur Bhaijaan is right to criticize it.
23:46 Spending aapke control meh hai Janab. Spending sudharen.
25:45 The most important thing is budget and government spending.
29:18 (with regard to what has been discussed in the last 4 minutes) In my opinion, Taimur Bhaijaan's recommendation while sometimes good cannot improve Pakistan if they go beyond IMF's framework. The framework presented by IMF is genuinely important for growth.
33:25 I commend the dedication Taimur Bhaijan has with regards to his standings. I wish you well and hope that you do well in Pakistani Politics.
*** Bhutto's Nationalization ***
I will not comment on this part because I am not aware of the history of this part.
Neo-Liberalism has lot of problem and Taimur Bhaijan is right to be weary of Neo-Liberalism. I don't blame Bhutto for any economic failure. Man was under a lot of pressure during his entire tenure.
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Private is better than Public generally because private firm do not suffer from corruption and everyone in the firm is incentivised. Private can work but you need good and honest workforce which I don't think Pakistan has.
47:00 Yes that is true. This is part of Modern Monetary theory. Yes they only give these loans for profit. Yes that would incentivise Real Estate loans.
48:58 This is interesting. Taimur Bhaijaan does not understand what the word free means in free market. Yes The spending by the Government in USA is a lot but that does not mean that USA is a command (un free) economy. You can go and check the economic freedom rating by various agencies which rate Pakistan poorly especially when it come to business freedom.
Spending does not mean control. Restriction = Control. Pakistan has constricted business activity.
www.heritage.org/index/visualize
52:45 Taimur is correct here and while Shehzad is correct to point out the short coming in Pakistani system, it is not the responsibility of Pakistani banks.
55:46 Not necessarily. It is possible to give that money and not have inflation because Inflation occurs only when the money supplied is spent on a single type of commodity in large proportions. You can get away with not having inflation if the money is spent on things like Heavy machinery, stocks, etc. or yes, if the money is converted to dollar and taken out of the country. Inflation is really complicated. I would suggest anyone reading this to watch this video by PHD Joeri Schasfoort
th-cam.com/video/zxwO4xw4CZ0/w-d-xo.html
57:29 Taimur is right. This should be implement and should work in my opinion. The reason IMF has not allowed you to have a state bank which can lend money to the state is because Pakistan might use that printed money for paying loan which will be disastrous. First prove that you can spend the money correctly after cutting your budget and then go on to reform the Bank.
1:05:00 Shezad is correct. SME can grow in my opinion I don't trust the Pakistani Government to lead industrialization. MSME should be empowered to lead industrialization.
***** END******
I would have to write more but I don't feel the topics after this are relevant to me.
Thanks for reading.
Keep up the good work Shehzad.
P.S. I might have some spelling mistakes. I am not proofreading to correct any mistakes. I am tired.
Thanks for the detailed comment!
Thank you very much for such detailed analysis.
ہیں !!؟؟ اچھا اور یہ چونٹیاں آتی کہاں سے ہیں بھلا !!!!؟؟؟؟؟
th-cam.com/video/bl7Ftgea8kg/w-d-xo.html
Thanks bhai.
Once you go into IMF program; you cannot curb imports. You have to follow free trade market principles.
Military spending is in rupees; curbing that will not solve the problem of foreign currency deficit. Although cutting military spending and allocating those funds for public sector development fund will improve public welfare and HDI.
The core point is why will elite & establishment improve economy when they are living in super luxury. Who the hell is awam of Pakistan.
When army is in the business why would they do structural reforms to kull their own companies? Get real . Nothing will change in Pakistan.Enjoy the daily comedt show
You can watch this episode in 4K also!
Mobile pe option nahi hai😢
@@Bhatti_69 laptop par aayai ga
Ni
@@ThePakistanExperience laptop shebaz sharif ki scheme se laaoon😭 720 p thk hai Meray android Kay liye or ptcl wese hi mashallah hai
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دس ہزار ڈالر کی جرمن پھکی
اگر کوئی مرزا علی انجینئر کو ختم نبوت پر لائیو دلائل کے تبادلے کے لئے تیار کرے تو اسے دس ہزار ڈالر پیشگی انعام ۔ جو کوئی ایسا کر سکتا ہے برائے مہربانی بتا دیں۔
Fhfg jgdtu fjjtr dhvst
As a small business owner, outside of Pakistan. I completely agree with Dr. Taimur, it is very difficult almost impossible to compete with big companies. We do not have the money or accessories to compete with Wallmart.
@@Darius0109 It is working only because USA is innovative and comes up with new products and even new product categories. Otherwise China has already bankrupted many small towns where the decline in living standards and deterioration of society is clearly visible. Neither Pakistanis nor Indians would ever agree to see entire towns becoming ghost towns.
Walmart(Public Sector) & Indian Railways are the largest employers of the World. What are you as a small business owner?. Walmart supports 2.3 Million Jobs?. How many jobs does Pakistan state support excepting the army who has infiltrated every organisation and made it redundant. The people of Pakistan do not own Pakistan, they are simply being used by the army & its stooge politicians> to siphon money away from "what is called a nation" into greener pastures. Pakistan is a closed case so far as economy & future is considered. It is at best a slave state of China & also its Arab lenders.
Fact Sheet about Pakistan economy
-GDP -$340 billion
-GDP growth -0.3%
external debts-$132 billion (39% of the GDP)
Exports-$35 billion+ Remittances-$30 billion
Imports-$60 billion
Interest rate-22%
Inflation-39%
Citizens below poverty line-35.7% (8.6 crore)
Why are u feeling pain
Very hot discussion. Amazing!! What a classy podcast.
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we need more conversations like this for bringing social change in Pakistan. Only social change will challenge forces of status quo and bring economic change.
You need to learn new skills and stop watching anything else
Yes please continu believing in this voodoo stuff
What you need is for your administration and agencies need to stop exploiting your country and your citizens.
He actually makes some brilliant points backed with data. If we look at India, Modi is doing the same thing. He is giving incentives to Tata, Ambani, Adani (using them as state tools) to create large scale industries. He is incentivising sectors through PLI which create growth like electronics manufacturing, capital goods and defense. He is putting trade barriers to protect local economy. Investing heavily in technology like UPI, JanDhan, ONDC etc.
But we congress supporters will not make this happen, we will try to sabotage this, will protest everywhere in parliament Jantar mantar and kick out all the investments😂
And you actually think thats a good idea ?
Stupidity actually has no limits
Can you give me one example in modern history where trade barriers have actually worked to make an economy better?
Aren't these trade barriers a continuation of the License Raj/Import Substitution of Nehru's economic model? How did that work out for India? India's prosperity started in 1992 when India was forced to liberalize the economy because of IMF. Things have worked very well for India since then. So instead of doubling down on the things that worked, isn't Modi undoing the very thing that got India on it's path to prosperity.
The "incentive" that free trade provides is to force private sector to produce goods and services of comparable value/quality. To learn how to do that takes a generation.
It took South Korea 30 years to produce cars of the same quality as Japanese. It took Taiwan Semiconductor Manufacturing Corporation 30 years to get to the quality and technology level of Intel. And they were all helped with tax breaks and direct investment. No one put trade barriers.
If Tata and Ambani and Adani are incentivized with trade barriers, they will never need to be competitive with the rest of the world. Because once trade barriers are put in place, it takes a miracle or a catastrophe to undo them. India had that in 1992 and it got out rather well. Now its time to undo it all??? When you enact trade barriers, you end up with Hindustan Ambassador.
The way to incentivize private enterprise is to make it easy for them to set up shop. Give them expiring tax breaks so while they are learning to be competitive, they are able to survive the initial learning curve required to be competitive. Let the local economy produce a substandard product for a while till you learn how to make it a quality product. That learning can only happen if there is better alternative present in the market.
But by putting trade barriers, all you are doing is making the citizens' life less affluent. Just because Tata thinks it can do it, doesn't mean it can produce a quality product tomorrow or the next year. That is usually a generational process.
I can give you a dozen examples of where free trade has done wonders. Look at all of Asian Tigers. Look at China.
India is not flourishing because of modi. Modi's govt is just enjoying the fruit of the tree that was planted long before modi was in politics the same as Pakistan is facing hardships because of not what was done in the last few years but we had been on the wrong track since inception. Modi and his policies for India will only result in chaos for generations to come but Indians wont realize this just like when we didn't realize it until the damage was beyond repairable. Sadly this is how our world works in a never ending cycle of Growth reaching a Pleateu followed by a steep decline..... We never learn from the past no one stays on top indefinitely and the world goes on...
@anonym2404, who planted tree,? British, Nehru & his family, Manmohan Singh? They did contribute to the country but not planted tree that will give fruit for generation. Even Modi will not plant tree that will give fruits for generation. India is too big to enjoy for generation. To flourish India, government needs to contribute equally in all sector. Nehru created IIT but in business sector he used to hate word profit. Business never run without profit. No motivation no profit. Indira Gandhi was good in all areas but not good in business. She did nationalisation of the companies which created long term impact. Business in India did not grow faster till 1991 & India has to go to IMF first time. Manmohan Singh has good business sense he got free hand in 1991-95 . During that time, he made sure that we do not need to go IMF near future. That is maximum one can do in five year. Vajpayee also contributed by initiating highways first time in India. First western style highway was built his term. During 2004- 2014 Manmohan Singh did not have good control other wise he could have done much better. Now what Modi government done for economics: Modi government has done it by implementing simple tax law GST (nobody was knowing how much tax they were paying before, in 1980 some goods were having more than 300% tax), good infrastructure (see the sea port capacity increases in last 10 years, India is using water transport from Gujrat to Tamilnadu, Bangal, one can check how many highways increased in last 10 years), Modi government also done better in international relationship improvement which helps to economy. Modi government also working in defence import substitute which can help economics . Online payment system is another success which can help ease of business. India still has long way to go and whoever comes in 2024 has lot of opportunity to improve.
Last thing, can you give single example of policy which can create chaos which can go beyond reparable?
Teacher ❤
"Yeh jo karay ga uska Mazar kahan banay ga" was epic by Shehzad. Great podcast
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Very well expanation of the Left Perspective in the contemporary politics...The host gave tough time but all the questions were answered politily,logically, and patiently...collected lot of onowledge.thanks
I wish Uzair Yunus could have been here. A number of arguments being presented by Dr.Taimur here are either flawed or incomplete.
Such as what? Uzair Yunus is a neoliberal ideologue who works in at a NATO affiliated think-tank in Washington and has a child’s understanding of history & geopolitics. The career advancement of ppl like him is directly linked to furthering Pakistan’s role as an American vassal. I wouldn’t take anything he says very seriously.
@@thefishtruck for example, when Dr.Taimur argues that crowding out affect due to govt investments has either no affect on private investment or is actually good for the country. I vehemently disagree here! Name a few enterprises run and owned by Govt of Pakistan and tell me its benefits. I will counter each 1 enterprise you name with at least 10 which are an extreme burden on public money/resources. Please note that the crowding out affect is pretty much established economic rule. I understand that there would be an exception to the rule but I can assure you that our economy is not that exception. Uzair can work for any agency he wants, I honestly wouldn't have cared even if he was unemployed. I care about the Merit of the ideas presented regardless of who is presenting those ideas and where that person is employed. Lets argue based on logic of the idea, and not the personal/professional life of the presenter. Gravity was discovered by newton. No one ever said that the Newton believed in alchemy which is why you wont believe in gravity. Gravity, just like the concept of crowding out affect doesn't care whether you believe in it or not or whether newton came up with it or Ali. These are established facts/laws (I understand the crowding out affect is not as established a law as gravity, however, im just trying to illustrate a point here.)
@@thefishtruck yes, and genius professor here thinks exchange rate pegs are going to make Pakistan a superpower.
@@thefishtruck First, free floating currency management gives correct value to exchange rate. It causes misery in short run but good for long run.
IMF is giving hard medicine. Honest system could change realities.
@@AKumar-co7oe Where did he say that? Bro lying right underneath the video we all watched lmaoo
Western economies government expenditure to GDP ratio is high e.g 40-45% but he forgot to mention that tax to GDP ratio is 35-40% as well 😂😂
He wants to be in good books of Establishment.
ہیں !!؟؟ اچھا اور یہ چونٹیاں آتی کہاں سے ہیں بھلا !!!!؟؟؟؟؟
th-cam.com/video/bl7Ftgea8kg/w-d-xo.html
@@Health-Blitzliar and demagogue telling half truths to the uneducated
True. The data you are proving further underscores my argument that the role of the gov is far more substantial in advanced capitalist countries than it is in third world countries.
@@Health-Blitz I doubt that is very possible given my political views as a leftist.
It was a brilliant, thought-provoking conversation.
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Very informative specially with queries and responses accordingly
Any young guys who are listening to this dialogue, should also see Taimur Rehmans tutorials on political science, economics and also his LUMS lectures. Outstanding academician, scholar, speaker and teacher.
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LUMS students are much aware about this desi socialist , the level of sosha he release !!
Tharak to pata he hein iske
Appreciate your endeavours to cover all views with an open mind!!
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This is the observation nicely stated
What the professor is actually saying is kind of utopia. This looks good when talking while you are sipping coffee. The only way a nation comes out of poverty is when it has a free market capitalist economy. ( with a good governance who gives equal opportunity to its citizens without any discrimination). South Korea,Japan, Singapore, Israel are the best examples in Asia for it.
Protectionism is utopia? Wow.
China ,Vietnam is best example of communism economic system. japan.skorea etc are nothing in front of china.😅😂
All countries are not comparable to each other. Tiny South Korea or Singapore will have no major issues in devising and implementing any policy they want in their country.
And Japan was reconstructed by the US after WW2, moreover they had prior experience as a colonial power.
I don't know much about Israel.
The more the state is involved .. more goes to bureaucracy’s pocket … it doesn’t matter what you write in your constitution.
But you need a state control for proper order in Business
@@abhaypatel4292😂😂 without moral values like basic foundation of human being should be good .
Otherwise no form of governance can ever work as greed, desires and arrogance has no limits
@@abhaypatel4292 State's role in the economy should be like an umpire/referee in a game. Umpires facilitates the game and allow it to play. It doesn't take side but it tries to make sure everyone is playing on a level field. That means the state forces competition and not allow for monopolies to exist. It lets the economy do what it wants within the rules of the game.
Economies are entirely too big and too complicated for governments to control. The West realized it 100 years ago. It's high time we do the same.
The more the state is involved, the more Hindustan Ambassadors you will produce.
It already does either way if you wanna go there.there needs to be checks and balances . Modi with his crony adani has been doing that for 25 years
@@JW-be8wf The west has plunghed itself into the same chaos again. Keynesian models are mainstream there especially in the Americas resulting in the biggest bubbles in history.
If people like Taimur Rahman are teaching economic in Pakistan universes then its not surprising to see current economic condition of Pakistan. The theories and argument presented by this gentlemen have fundamental flaws in its core basis.
But that doesn't matter to him. He can sit in his ivory tower and expound failed theories as alternatives as they will never be implemented in the real world (and shown to fail)
The theories and arguments presented by neoliberal economists not only are fundamentally flawed, but have proved to be disastrous for the country.
@@ravindra7791chup endian
Those fundamental concepts are just based upon theories. Your basic standardized concepts will not run any economy. Dr sahb is talking about practical economics.
@@saadakhundrajper1643well name a single successful country running on Dr sahabs theory 😂 north Korea
Aww, I was looking forward to get my questions asked : ( They were really good!
Sorry. Must have not seen them in time.
I'm really looking forward to this podcast and the much-needed insight into the Pakistani economy.
Hopefully we will get a clear understanding on what’s actually going on.
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👍 Good
انجینئر صاحب آپ کہتے ہیں عمرہ اس لئے نہیں کرتے تا کہ غرباء کو پیسے دے سکیں۔ آپ دس ہزار ڈالر مجھ سےپییشگی لے لو ختم نبوت پر دلائل کے تبادلے پر۔ دونوں ثواب۔ ختم نبوت کے دفاع کے لئے اور دس ہزار ڈالر غرباء کو دے کر۔
Very intellectual debate
@@DailyMotivationDose-qt7nw 🙌
I am always (mostly) convinced by Taimur's (must try!!) ideas and study on economics. As a small business, I can totally understand the associated pain and gains. Good content Shaikh sab! :)
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@@ThePakistanExperience😊
Yet another great show. And great guest. Excellent effort so proud of you 👏👏
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Very useful discussion. Thank you Shazad and the learned professor!
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His comment on govt expenditure to GDP is very misleading. Look at the tax intake of those countries like US or UK. It is slightly less than govt expenditure, so the metric one needs to look at is Govt Expenditure/ Tax. For US or Western countries it is under 1.5. In Pakistan it is > 2. So even though Govt expenditure is lesser as percentage of GDP , you "loose" the right to spend if your tax system is leaky. Which is the case with 3rd world countries. And I am not accounting for corruption etc in poor countries
I agree with dr taimur's viewpoint on division in left ... lovely podcast btw
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Apologies Dr. Taimur, but it is not IMF's problem that even after bailing Pakistan's economy out more than a dozen times, Pakistan's export industry has not created enough value addition on its imported raw materials, that devaluation of Pakistan's currency still does not translate to substantial increase in Pakistani exports' competitiveness.
The core problem lies in the elite capture of political economy, red-tapism and control of establishment in Pakistan's economy, that doesn't let Pakistan get out of its cycle of debts.
I do agree that strategically important sectors should have govt control of export-import, but to base an economy entirely on the idea of protectionism, doesn't lead it anywhere in the long run. It rather creates more red-tapism and corruption of bureaucracy. A good example is the Licence-Raj period in India.
Secondly, your argument that Pakistan's economic policy especially viz-a-viz import restrictions and currency value, has been strictly dictated by IMF during the entire period of 3-4 decades, is honestly a weak argument and sounds like an easy escape.
Many govts in the past in Pakistan have often manipulated exchange rates e.g. Musharraf and Ishaq Dar, for lengthy durations, so the evidence here suggests otherwise. It is only now after 3-4 decades of carrying Pakistan's economy (and also the fact that Afghanistan and hence Pakistan has lost its strategic significance it once had), that IMF is so strict on having their way with Pakistan's future economic policy.
Chutia economist chit wee Saadi pat we saadi
Well put. That's what academics with no connection to the real world say. Plus left wing ones. Dr Rehman for eg claims China grew because of communism not capitalism 😂
incredible analysis
True, Pakistan is still living in 1947, where the ones in power are unnecassarily overly vary of Europeans and Americans.
India removed import restrictions and barriers in 1991, and allowed Foreign Capital to buy Land, Properties, Businesses in India, and Invest here which created jobs.
In Pakistan a graduate cannot get a proper job unless they have a connection with someone with at least some amount of influence. That's because they aren't adding any value.
And the talented ones are never allowed to come up, if they aren't well connected.
The fault is of this Punjaabi Thinking
Punjaabis should not have had control ever Pakistan.
Sindhis would have managed the country much better.
@@Health-Blitzhow Sindhis are managing Sindh and Karachi is a very good example.... Khuda k lye lisaani ta'assub se bahir aayn....
This man makes so much sense ❤
How much difficult to explain to any Pakistani that it is not IMF that is going to fix their economy. It is not their job.
He argues that western contries contribute a high percentage of government funds to the GDP. What he fails to mention is that this government expenditure is made towards education, public services, socialised healthcare (euro countries) etc.
Plus they have average 35% tax to gdp ratio.
In India banks are following individuals to give Home loans and personal loans, very strange to hear that this is not very prevalent in Pakistan.
سر مزہ آگیا قسمیں 🎉
Before watching this video I had never heard anyone giving solutions to Pakistan economical problems and I had never seen any podcast in Pakistan where you learn a lot.
My dad (late) was inclined towards left and had been politically active among the left movements too.
What I observed is that left is comprised of free thinking intellectuals and artists of all types, things which are frowned upon in our extreme theistic society. This has been a significant impediment to left’s political success, especially with the association of communism/socialism/marxism with atheism.
There Is No Substitute To Money In Life. 👍
I agree
does theism limit someone from being free thinker in other aspects of the society? Really? Then how have so many great thinkers been produced in the past among Muslim socities and also other societies?
@@user-ww2lc1yo9c yes, it does. A free thinker will more often than not realize that religion is rubbish, or that at least organized religion is. Back in the day, knowledge seekers and free thinkers were often religious because science and philosophy was not developed and not directly contradictory with religion. In 21st century we have not discovered many scientifically proven things that directly contradict religious teachings , its pretty much impossible to be a scientifically minded free thinker while believing in any religion literally. Yes you can still be pantheist, deist, monist etc. In fact I don't even consider Taimur a free thinker even if he's agnostic - because he's manipulating his thoughts to paint lipstick on a pig which is islam.
@@AKumar-co7oe which religion are you talking about? The revealed religion is teaching man why universe exists, why we exist, what we need to do in this life, what happens after death, is there god?, who is god?
This most fundamental questions of our existence are outside the domain of science.
I live in the UK and ever few months I find new people that are converting to Islam out of free choice. They have all spent months or even years studying Islam. I have mostly met men but statistics show that most that convert are women. You are the one that is talking about something that you do not even understand the basics of. Yet you behave like you know everything.
2020 Tak Pakistan Chaand Par Baithkar, Dharti Ke Faislay Kar Raha Hoga
- Laal Topi ( Zaid Hamid - E - Azam )
Shahzad bhay thank you so much for inviting DR Taimur Rahman sb. ❤
ہیں !!؟؟ اچھا اور یہ چونٹیاں آتی کہاں سے ہیں بھلا !!!!؟؟؟؟؟
th-cam.com/video/bl7Ftgea8kg/w-d-xo.html
Loved it
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Thank you Shahzad for any other great podcast 📻 ❤️
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One point I agree with him is priority sector bank lending. In India, RBI does have some levers and push for say agri loans or SME loans. Why cant the SBP do that I wonder
Good point!
Excellent show...loved the guest!!
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Another amazing episode, thanks!
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SME/ MSME can compete with bigger brand. I couldn't understand his setup there. Be it in tech/ product based or service based, in India most of MSME has been competing with larger brands. Obviously they might eventually end up bought by the same big fish😅
That "To phir me na hi samjhun" by shehzad cracked me up 😂
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I must say this interview is really v v informative, bysted many myths. Earlier I did not v much like Dr. Sab but now I am feeling v convinced from his thoughts. Kudos. Plz make more podcasts with hjm to let us, non-economics students gain more clear concepts about macro economy. This is a very appreciable show!!🎉🎉
1:00:00
It's in the hand of private because private capital is not sovereign. They make stupid decisions they would suffer whereas if sovereign make stupid decision we will suffer.
Despite your health at the time it was a delightful podcast. Prof Taimur always makes his points eleqointly even when I totally disagree with his perspective &/or analysis. Cant wait for the rest of this Lahore Session.
Keep up the great work Shehzad!
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My questions
1. Relegious fanaticism (muzhubi touch) is actually divideding people of Pakistan then how public sentiment or public unity can generate public awareness for economic policy or development of Pakistan?
2. India is growing & becoming major exporter for world then trade relationship between India & Pakistan can help Pakistan for decrease the cost of import. Thus pak can make low cost product from importing row materials from India at cheap prices and then export it at international market at competitive prices. Pakistan can also take advantage of geo location for transferring goods from thier roads or act as intermideatary. Aslo can take advantage of education as language is similar but why Pakistan is not trying to improve relationship with India? Why still not controlling terro2233m?
3. When the trade was open between india & Pak, India had given pak the status of most favoured nation for trade but why Pakistan has not given any such preference? India has provided air space for travel but Pakistan had blocked air space? Whenever india has started peace negotiations then pak has backstabed India again & again why? And when pak will realise and stop doing it?
4. Pakistan army possesses 12 percent of the country's land, out of which two-thirds is owned by senior military officers. Fauji Foundation is the world's largest military owned conglomerate worth over $20 billion. Then why IMF can't see the asset of pak army? Still subsidy & land grabbing going on...why?
average Indian commentator can see all these things, but Pakistani intellectuals somehow can't
Blame Pak army
@@AKumar-co7oesome are blind by disability some by conviction 🙂
@@AKumar-co7oe No I think a great many Pakistanis would agree on good relations between Pakistan and India as well as mutually beneficial trade. Unfortunately the Army continues to be the power behind the civillian governments and they can justify their bloated budget on the "threat from India."
Very good discussion ❤
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Thank u so very much absolutely love this man 🫶🙏
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I think Marx also said relegion is opium of masses..Yeh sach hi hai 😢
ہیں !!؟؟ اچھا اور یہ چونٹیاں آتی کہاں سے ہیں بھلا !!!!؟؟؟؟؟
th-cam.com/video/bl7Ftgea8kg/w-d-xo.html
Mullahs use this opium to maintain their hold on the muslim society.
Excellent Podcast . Shehzad you have been improving, fantastic questioning and good strength on Economic policies.
Keep up the great work buddy.
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Maza aaya 👍
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Just enjoyed your company
Very good podcast ❤
Among what Ive come across unlike IMF the much worse problem for 3rd World economies has been the WTO. I've known people who've been at important meeting in my country and have been unable to secure local govt made cheap nedication or food for the poor of the nation because of WTO mandates despite having the facilty in the former and 100's of tonnes of it going to waste due to stagnation in govt. storages in latter. Systems like healthcare really do struggle in densely populated countries because of such mandates.
I’m
Appreciate taimur rahman sahib analysis.. great suggestions.. should be right people on the right chairs.
That's a great podcast. Thank you Shehzad for this interactive session with Dr. Taimoor. You didn't ask my questions as I was waiting for that🥺. Anyway keep it up man💯
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Aap ka sawal kya tha
The second half of the podcast was good. And the studio set-up and acoustics look much improved. Content was good, as it usually is. Only thing is, economic theories and encapsulated principles work in ideal situation, not in such real life situation far moved from ideal and all things remaining constant kind of situation like where Pakistan is placed currently. People blame higher interest rates, but can someone suggest any other measure that can be taken to incentivize savings as against consumption. If the real interest rate is so deeply negative like in Pakistan, people will have strong propensity to consume rather than save. Without savings, investments wont happen. Quick-fixes and band aids and chest-beating are no solutions at all.
Just saw both of you eating wuth Engineer Muhammad Ali Mirza. I then watched both of the podcats, and man both of you did a fantastic job. I'm glad i found your channels. Looking forward to all og your podcasts from now on.
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Was eagerly waiting for this podcast. Thanks shehzad bhai. Bas aik gila hai. ENGINEER sahb wali podcast expectations py nai utri
Ye utar jaye gi Inshallah ❤
dr taimur is one of my favorite person to listen to
Youll enjoy this podcast
@@ThePakistanExperience it was indeed very enjoyable
To keep a balanced view, you should invite someone from the other camp as well. Chicago school of economics/Austrian Economists/Free Market Economist. Someone from the Free-Market Camp
We have had so many free market economists on the podcast!
No clue who would be the Pakistani equivalent of Thomas Sowell, Milton Friedman, Fredrick Hayek, Murray Rothbard or someone from the Mises institute/Ayn Rand Institute.
@@lonewolf887uzair younas
Very sad state of affairs.. The so called Economics professor has absolutely no solutions.. and just avoids answering though questions... blaming IMF ... stupid point of view of the guest...
@@lonewolf887Pakistani equivalent means? He'll do finance jih@d?
Shehzad you made more sense as a non-economist than dr taimur. The military budget/ subsidies should not be cut because we have debt repayments? What kind of logic is that? Every penny counts…. The more budget we divert to health and education the better chances of developing the country
He never said they should NOT be cut, he said its not an end all be all solution.
@@aunthegeek5788 ok its not the be all. But you have to reduce your budget deficit from every avenue possible. You cannot blame IMF when your military is busy making cornflakes and running laundromats.
Bhai not only health and education....they need to start making policy n start developing the main economy of Pakistan that is agriculture.....unless you increase per yeild growth on existing land....it will not be enough for local public....then education n then health....
Regarding military budget, frankly now they can't compare with india....coz Indian budget is huge ...so best is to make peace, cut down military and passion budget n invest in agriculture, local production education ...n strictly stop religious angle in education or else only maderesa knowledge is not enough to earn 3 times of meal
I think you clearly misunderstood him. He didn’t oppose cutting the military budget but just explained that Pakistan’s elites have interests that are linked with those of transnational capital and so they have no problem implementing IMF prescriptions because these don’t interfere with elite capital accumulation (which includes military expenditure) within the country.
Awesome podcast
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Great episode!
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@@ThePakistanExperienceKya speed hai Bhai apki😂
2 elites discussing pakistan's problem that too idealists🤣, little do they know they are the part of it!
Guess you didn't watch the podcast
@@aunthegeek5788 Guess what ? I did !
Yehi toh issue hai.. kare toh dikkat, na kare toh dikkat
Dr Taimoor Rahman Economics is mix of Marx university as well as Labbaik ya rasool Allah university. 😂 🤣 No doubt pakistan 🇵🇰 🕌 🐫 economy is in dol drum 🥁. 😂 🤣 😂
Gotta be my fav podcaste bcz docter shb is there ❤
best podcast, shehzad keep it up the good work
Next time koi Star Wars ka economic expert bulana. Equality reality based hoga 😂
I believe in capitalism but the argument was even rational ,humble and knowledgeable ❤
Dr Sahab pushed hard on the left politics in Pakistan.. twas fun to watch ;d
Very nice talk show
Apologizes to this gentleman...but his ideas were implemented in Bengal...and we can see the devastation.... Venezuela is a other example....🙄
Actually each and every place in the world irrespective of culture or era where it was implemented it has failed. But these guys continue to propagate it. Some people claim Soviet Union or other failed communist regimes implemented it poorly so it didn't work. But not a single country has been successful
Bengal naam sunte hi hansi choot jati hai meri, much din baad to africa k niche chala jaega Bengal🙄
@@richardsking koi baat nahi Bengal mein secularism toh hai... according to leli media...
@@KabirSingh-kg9dd bus secularism hai, aur kuch nahi, imagine inn logo ne tata ko laat marke Nikala tha bengal se, aaj wo gujarat mei hai, semiconductor aur lithium battery aur aircraft bana rahe hai gujarat telangana mei, aur bengal ka kya bhala hoga, jab tak waha koi pro investment party ki govt nahi aati koi waha industries lagane ki himmat bhi nahi karega
@@richardsking did u saw the poll violence in Bengal and leli media silence....what a hypocrite these guys r?
Why do capitalism and communism have to be mutually exclusive? Many countries already have hybrid systems in place such as "Communism with Chinese characteristics" and socialism.
Yep exactly, As far as I understand some parts of the economy mainly relating to education and healthcare should be controlled by socialist policy while other parts more relating to tech and innovation should be controlled by capitalist policy
capitalism Only in free market in china under communist rule .markets are controlled by chinese communist party.
Loved the part " Ju yeh karey ga ..Us ka mazaar kahan baney ga"
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Thank you very much for your very informative and very interesting program on borrowing money from IMF
Taimur Rehman sahib I am a student of Commerce and belong to a business family
Anyway the point you have explained very nicely
If $ increase the rupees value goes down
Prices of commodities will decrease
But if we are importing Raw Material from outside
We have to pay in $
After processing if we want to export the commodity
Because of the high price of $
The price of the commodity naturally will be more
Nobody would like to buy our products
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This is the key. Import dependency of exports means that rising dollar prices do not result in our products becoming competitive.
This is my key argument.
IMF is a lender n would put conditions to ensure that its loan is secured.. If you are so much against it then don’t go to IMF.. Manage your affairs with your own funds. Taimur is not talking about productivity, Innovation, R&D etc. playing an important role in economic development… Govt should never sit in Businesses rather provide efficient governance to drive economic growth… So Taimur is absolutely wrong n misleading…
Correct. He talks about restricting imports. but not about ways of increasing exports. Man's all for ending privatization but would not have an answer for corruption and inefficiency that come with it in a country like Pakistan...
@@najam.isloogian in sync with your thoughts
damn ..... may pakistan be blessed with more such geniuses like taimur 😇😇😇😂😂😂🤪🤪🤪
They are - their engineers are maulana and talk about the flat earth as per their holy book 😂😂
@@Gappasappawhats wrong with this taimur? I'm just a minute into podcast
@@Gappasappahave you ever heard engineer? like actually? you will come to know he bombarded with such scientific facts on those clerics those tried their lives to prove that earth is flat.
religious is not bound to some class or sect. you and me can learn religious. no one owns regilious.
the good fact is that engineer has read science books and he knows how to draw a clear line between religious and science and he preaches the youngsters not to mix religious with science.
and i guess he has good intellect.
1:07:00
It's not something that hasn't been done.
There are plenty of sectors where SME are competent which does not require huge investment. Many countries start with this than move to other sector using prosperity generated through sectors like textile, agro products etc.
He was spot on. China has grown exclusively due to this policy.
Chengdu Metro made Lahore Metro. Here in Chengdu, Chengdu Metro was establish by Chinese government creating money in yuan, Using Chinese steel industry and construction industry, and Xinan Jiaotong University which was primarily established to create local engineers for railways.
And in Lahore, we imported engineers, imported steel, imported construction equipment and imported metro or foriegn financing from Chinese Financial Institutions in a currency we do not print or control.
This is a product of current free market economy setup. Dr. Sahab is absolutely spot on.
I am shocked that this guy taught economics. I feel sorry for his pupils. What absurd and silly economic view.
31:02 very generous question
Hi Shehzad, appreciate your work! Wanted to add to the point professor made during 1:03:00 (private enterprise vs state production). If you look at most developed economies you'd see their biggest source of income is from industries like telecom, health, automobile production and sale, insurance, and other commodity production (some countries made it through oil or tourism but that's not the general pattern). All such industries require some state intervention and funding. The government can spend with much more scale and targetted effort until the player/s reach a level where specific minimum standards are set. To this day governments have majority shares in major airlines and even industries like semiconductor (which is probably the next big world industry). The probability that an innovator or disruptor comes through private ownership is at best exceptional and has only happened in already industrialized countries, so highly improbable to say the least.
During 1:08:00 you gave an example. I think you still need Carbon Fiber at a cheaper price if you could sell it to the world. You could take debt in Pakistan but the rates are going to be massive. If the government backs you, probably might make it, if not, a very high chance a Chinese or American firm buys you.
And yes you gave the example of Atoms. Their revenue is 0.01% of Nike. I felt that comparison was odd.
Excellent point.
Dhirubhai Ambani disrupted the textile industry in India in 1980s. He was just a school teacher's son who se first job was petrol pump attendant in Aden, Yemen.
Karsanbhai of Nirma dislodged market leader Surf of Hindustan Lever in the washing powder market in early 1980s.
PayTM disrupted payment industry and its founder came from lower middle class tier 2 city.
The assertion that disruptions are not possible in developing economies is simply not supported by facts.
Public sector SAIL had virtual monopoly in steel industry in India pre-1991. The steel industry remained stunted. Now after the controls have been removed India has become the second largest steel manufacturer in the world.
@@gauravipal9518 That is a great point.
However if you look at the % contribution of the industries you mentioned to India’s GDP, it would be less than 5%. Steel contributes only 2% to India’s GDP.
You must also note that India was not always a big free-market player. Up until the 2000s the economy had some government involvement which adds to my point that it is necessary to involve the government to set the basic infrastructure and ground rules, try to make the economy compete in a regulated environment at first (which even happens today in India for e.g in commodities and milk production) and then open it to the world so your own companies meet the minimum standards of competing with outsiders.
My point is that these inventions, which you pointed out, albeit massive in their industries still don’t make a big enough dent to the overall economy. We have many disruptive success stories from Pakistan too btw but it’s not something that a country can count on.
P.S: The comparison with India is odd because its the world’s biggest market with a very very high demand internally. Pakistan doesn’t have that (given that our middle class is a fraction of the population). Moreover, India is 1/8th of the world population, meaning that every 8th big disruption should come from India, but it doesn’t work that way. It happens mostly in developed countries where the infrastructure is streamlined and efficient.
Salam Namaste Sat Sri Akaal sab bhai behno ko🙏
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India also removed all Import Restrictions in 1991, and allowed Foreign Capitalists to Invest and Take Up a Significant Chunk of Indian Economy.
Taimur Rahman is wrong, when he says that there should be import restrictions.
The ppl in power in Pakistan don't want to dilute their power, which is IMF recommendations aren't followed.
India problem was completely different in 1991, it was too much state control.
Pakistan problem is too much privatization.
@@hasanjamshaid3312problem is guys have no skills and people with skill leave the country. Problem is not too much privatisation but no skill and acumen to increase business.
Major difference between developed and underdeveloped countries is strong institutions that work to provide equal oppourtunities for all citizens.
@@hasanjamshaid3312Too much state control resulted in low growth rate, high inflation, shortages. Taimur is advocating exactly that.
This podcast will trigger so many hardcore capitalists
him using word utopia in condescending manner is funny.
Perils of free economy are true.Totally agree .First we in the third world countries have to provide minimum basic to the people.
You are wrong.
Totally true and without basis. Most poor nation in the world embraced globalization and lifted people out of poverty. China. Communists cannot support their thesis anymore with facts.
Most of finance minister in have been either accountant, banker or pencil pusher like Sheikh Shahib. Thats why Pakistan does not have economic policy since 1947 except during PPP govt in 70s.
See when you created Pakistan what was your goal? Governance? No, your priority was gazwa-e-hind. Toh bhugto
@@trilokyamohanchakra6351 India only for Hindus. Jai Ram
Your export competitiveness is not dependent only on the dollar rate. In the medium to long term you need to focus on value add efficiency.
Nice studio
Bro can you have debates on your podcast with people with from different viewpoints
I prefer conversations over debates
@@ThePakistanExperience Bro we need Uzair Younus debating Dr. Taimur cause they have conflicting stances.
@@dr.cooper5909 th-cam.com/video/8oV80X5SbfY/w-d-xo.html this should quench that desire for you a little
@@ThePakistanExperience Fine with conversations if you prefer them to debates but i think having multiple voices in a single video is extremely important.
Dr. Taimur explain such concepts so easily. He is brilliant in explaining economy.
Beggars are not choosers
What are the possibilities of bringing down the gap between Imports and Exports
Why don't the
Economist of the country sit down and try to find a solution
Our Economist are 24/7 leg pulling each other
problem is that ... protection does not help consumers and creates local monopolies
I love how many of your guests including Taimur Rehman state that everything is the fault of someone other than Pakistani govt/establishment (yes I know he talked about one of the issues being the lion's share of the budget going to defense/national security). As always though, the left fails at making a convincing argument - at least for me.
No one wants a black vigo 😅
@@ThePakistanExperience all jokes aside, this status quo nonsense with regards to the ones who own the black Vigos is not making matters better for Pakistan. Yes Pakistan is subject to the conditions that the IMF has put in place, but Pakistan put itself in this situation 22 times or so. If other developing nations can pay off their commitments to the IMF (Bangladesh as you stated in the interview), what makes Pakistan so unique?
For me the most difficult thing to absorb is your guests' argument (Taimur is not the only one) that Pakistan is not able to do anything because it does not control anything in terms of fiscal and monetary policy. I feel that he may have deliberately failed to admit that this is because of Pakistan going repeatedly to the IMF for money over several decades and never paying the original obligations back. With a track record like that, which lending agency would not add additional conditions for any future loans?
In any case, the bottom line is Pakistan is where it is because of its own failure to make decisions to promote economic stability and progress. This whole other talk of whether the economy is supposed to be Keynesian or Socialist or Islamic or whatever doesn't help find practical solutions to the current problems.
@@CaptainAwesomeness I concur mostly.
Why does IMF or the West have to be blamed, when it's a defect in Pakistan's economy that their export industry does not add enough value to its imported raw materials even after decades, and as a result devaluation in PKR doesn't lead to increase in exports.
@@dr.cooper5909guys you're thinking too much, Pakistan only has two things, army and religion, baaki sab ram bharose(tbh geo political location)
@@trilokyamohanchakra6351army, religion and an intellectual elite that is adept at coming up with excuses to defend barbaric religious extremist mindsets, to glorify military dictators and to deflect from their own track record of ineptitude by blaming outsiders.