Viewer mail: All-in-one RAM + CF + RS232 for the Tandy 1000 EX/HX!
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2019
- Time to test out a new a new and better Memory Expansion board for the Tandy 1000 EX/HX. This one comes to me from viewer Robert and includes 384k RAM + 96k UMB but also adds Compact Flash (with XT-IDE BIOS) and a full DB9 serial port!
Note: Sorry about the bad audio, the new camera is pretty terrible in that department. I'm working on fixing it.
If you are interested in purchasing a completed board, a kit or a PCB from Robert please complete this google form:
forms.gle/o1JJfKfMRdPxBZpS8
You can email Robert at tandy.3in1@gmail.com if you have questions.
Part 1: • Basement Rant: Did I b...
Part 2: • Follow-up to fake or r...
Part 3: • My first PCB! A Tandy ...
The boards are Open Source Hardware and you can see the Github repository here: [[Sorry, it's not ready yet. Email Robert for more information]]
Robert tested several CF cards and found that small Cisco 32, 64 and 128mb cards work well. I have good luck with the OneFavor brand along with some other generic looking Chinese cards commonly available from AliExpress. Your mileage may vary, so if you get a card that misbehaves, try another.
I have had great luck with these with PCs:
www.aliexpress.com/item/32868...
$2.99 free shipping for 256mb
$4.55 free shipping for 1gb - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Those who are tired of the Tandy 1000 are tired of life! It’s great to see projects like this for the EX and HX machines. They never get love!
"No one will ever need more than 4K of RAM."
- Can't Remember
Now, it’s “No one will ever need more that 4 TB of RAM” 🤣
Maybe somebody working on the ENIAC said that. By the late 1950s the IBM 1401 was pretty common, with its base config of 4K of core memory. That quote sounds a lot like a reduction of IBM's bureaucratic attitude toward PC design in the early 1980s. The company seemed to honestly believe that 640k was an overwhelmingly massive amount of RAM, and the history shows it took them a minute to realize they were wrong.
Bill gates says no one will ever need more than 640K of RAM. You're probably remembering this
@@co3476 Oh, it was Gates? haha, that's kinda ironic, since Microsoft proved to be the company that was paying attention.
the "Can't remember." hilarious.
May sounds strange... but does anybody else feels heart warmed by seeing the C:\ prompt? It always reminds me of the good old times. :)
The C:\> prompt is high tech. I cut my teeth on the A> prompt
Hi Adrian,
I love your channel because I grew up with 8 bit machines.
I still have a 486DX 66MHz computer and I show my daughter how it works. She doesn't even understand what a floppy drive is :-) but she likes old games like Prehistoric or Transport Tycoon etc. Thank you for making such videos, I wish you good luck.Vitek from Czechia
Eucalypti, the multiple of Eucalyptus, the trees that Olbas oil comes from, and Koalas love to munch on, but yeah, horrible choice of words to guess... :P
Valid word of course, but that was a tough one. Actually paused the vid and still didn't see it. Who says old games cant still be challenging?
Please keep on bringing the Tandy content! I can't get enough.
You can have as many tandy 1000 videos as you want. I will watch every one of them. Thank you for your hard work
We've been double Rick Rolled. That makes me feel special, Adrian, thank you.
Received and installed mine in my HX today!
Excellent video as always ! Learned a ton of new stuff.
I love these Tandy videos. I guess it helps that I am a Tandy fan.
I had a Tandy 1000 HX when I was a kid with the memory upgrade for 640k. A board like this would have been epic back then. Having no storage space besides the floppy drive was a real bummer. This is very awesome. Great work guys.
Hey Adrian!
I've been watching your channel for a couple of years now. I bought a Tandy 1000 EX today and I wanted to learn more about it before it arrives. I thought I remembered something about a 3 in 1 card so I searched for it and here we are. Thanks so much for your immensely helpful content. I ordered one of these boards from an eBay seller today. . . And now, we wait. . . It will be interesting to see how the board I bought differs from the early revision you reviewed. Anyway, the Tandy 1000 EX/HX has been on my wish list for quite a while now and I'm really looking forward to digging into it. Keep up the great work!
Assuming you did not buy the "Version 2" board, the normal 3-in-1 is very much the same as the version in this video. Most of the changes have been slight layout improvements to make the PCB smaller, a few silkscreen corrections, and the addition of one pull-up resistor to improve compatibility with a certain brand of ROM chip.
The "Version 2" is a complete respin that includes a second serial port an a second parallel port and is quite different from the one in this video.
@@rkrenicki
Thanks. From what you described, I do not have the version 2 board.
My family got a Tandy 1000 EX back in the day, from RadioShack. It is the primary reason that I'm into computers and video games to this day.. I played the holy hell out of the Black Cauldron from Sierra. I love your TH-cam series!
Fantastic video as always.
Nice move with the open source card.
My first computer was a Tandy 1000ex back in 1985 I think. Loved it and learned how to write in BASIC lol
The only problem I have with Tandy content is that it makes me want to have a Tandy, esp. with cool expansions. And I already don't have time for the dozens of retro machines I already have. MUST. NOT. BROWSE. EBAY. Darn it...
To late for me 🤣
It makes me regret getting rid of my Tandy.
I think my Aunt still has her Tandy 1000. These videos make me want to get ahold of it and make sure its battery isn't leaking!
Yeah this video series made me buy a 1000 HX. Thankfully I got one before they all jacked up in price. Then got Rob's board, Derek's adapters, and their KiCAD files to make my own variants. I haven't had this much fun in a long time.
Ohh, I would have looved to have this for my HX back in the day.
By the way: love the new camera!!!
Agreed, the video started and it was instantly way better, i could tell it was the new camera.
New camera looks great.
I have collected just about every Tandy computer I sold while I managed the Pacific Beach, California RadioShack. I will be excited to see the difference between the original expansion board that was available threw RS for the EX/HX computers. Speed, memory mapping, etc. Going to try and reach out to him very soon & order one of these.
First off, I'm not tired of Tandy stuff. In fact... it's great to see some Tandy 1000 stuff! Keep it up! Also, I think the only way that board could be better is if it had a real time clock on it. Otherwise, it's perfect. By the way, at least on my 1000TL, if you want more settings from the setup program, use a /a switch at the end (setuptl /a). It gives you pages of selections.
Looks awesome!
Nobody should ever get sick of the Tandy 1000.
640k is all anybody needs anyway.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Don't worry! Someone will write a complete memory driver in the future and it will only take 96k of RAM. :) Has Python been ported to this platform yet? There are versions for embedded microcontrollers, I'll bet they'd work great on the XT.
Hi Adrian,
We can extend the DOS 2 or 3 memory to use UMB in theory, I will do a little utility for this.
(It does not require the application to support UMB, as the standard DOS Memory command is used)
New camera? Looks very sharp!
Nicccce. Great job, gentlemen! ---- I haven't done much with my card lately! I grabbed an extremely rare 1890s Estey Philharmonic chapel organ off Craigslist, and have been busy restoring it. Hoo boy it's a basketcase though. But the finest single-manual organ that Estey ever made, so worth it! Not sure why I am sharing that.... Maybe old organs and old computers kinda tickle the same psychological urge! (Or maybe I shouldn't have had that beer!)
LOL! What’s up with that rickroll
@@adriansdigitalbasement What is the little screen in the background that it came from?
Thank you, Adrian. I personally don't use any of the devices you talk about on your channel because as the tech has upgraded so have I but this to me is like old classic cars. it is nice to see them still going. Keep up the good work!
Received my production card from Robert today. Beautiful card! I tested it with a Sandisk 256MB CF card. Works great!
I’m stuck as I have no CF card image. Have a source?
@@RetroTechChris awesome! Thank you :)
@@airshackretro8551 you bet! There is also a Discord channel if you have questions!
Seconds! Oh lord!
Time to check out this vid.
Love that PLZBRO flash card
Hi Adrian. Have you considered just mounting some self-stick rubber “feet” under that card (on the case button, not on the card itself)? 😁
I'm pretty excited to start upgrading my HX, now if only I could get my cga to vga adaptor working better... at least now I can get some more software into the machine to play
The new camera works well.
I like just to watch the old technology
Very nice. I literally bought a Tandy 1000 HX yesterday... and ordered an XT-CF card, slot adapters, and a serial card. I have great timing :(
@@adriansdigitalbasement it did! There was a seller here in the DC area who listed the HX along with a CoCo 3.. all for $50, on Facebook Marketplace. He just thought it was an old computer. He had 30+ people reach out. I offered a little more than $50 to secure the machine.
@@ChrisLenderman That's a ridiculously good deal!
Definitely a cool product. I already have the original Tandy RAM board maxed out to 640K, though, so I'd only need the CF and RS-232.
Even if your Tandy is "maxed" at 640k, this board adds 96 KB of upper RAM that can be accessed with drivers to load DOS and (some/most?) drivers into upper memory blocks, resulting in a more functional system with more options, and also more free conventional RAM for games and applications to use.
I don't think I will ever be sick of Tandy.
you know why i like your channel (im new tbh)? because you do things more realistic. you do things like i, a normal consumer of said item, would do.
lol I've never seen such shiny beautiful sockets.
Even the ones I bought from Radio shack a decade ago (and still have kicking around to this day) were kind of dull. You just know they were sitting around a warehouse since the mid 90's.
FINALY! A new Camera... :)
I want one!
I really miss my 1000EX. It was my first computer.
I had an EX too, but my first computer was a Sinclair ZX81.
new hardware for old equipment.. bliss
Wow... I miss my old 1000 EX. If I was good as working with hardware and a soldering gun I'd get an EX/HX and keep after it. Part of me wishes they were making native DOS machines today but at the Raspberry Pi size. Oh well at least there's DOSBox and Virtual Box for some fix for the old days.
*video starts* immediately sees Rick Astley with never gonna give you up on a small screen in the background
That has been there many episodes now.
@@wolvenar maybe i just saw it now because of the new camera :P
@@MrFreeware Good chance.
I like your wireless modem 🙂
vi on DOS - right on!
I know, that this video was gonna be amazing, when i get Rick Rolled in the first few seconds ;)
P.S. That new camera has a really sexy quality :D
That has been there on the little screen for many episodes
@@wolvenar Has he ever made a video specifically about that?
I'm not sure about the Rick Astley image at least. The little display... Maybe? I would have to look back at his videos. Some reason the little display seems to ring a bell.
@@wolvenar Oh I never noticed! The little screen? Yeah, but the rick astley thing? No :D
@@wolvenar Yeah, I don't know if that was on there before! :D
I thought you might have got a new camera! No crashing mentioned for a while. :)
Adrian, i am looking to buy Onefavor CF card for my Amiga. I see they come with PCMCIA adapter. Do you know is that adapter 16bit?
I wonder will it work on Amiga. Great videos though. Keep up!
Drill the hole in that backplane. Then run a (long-ish) machine screw into the case and secure it with a nut. The nut should be enough of a spacer so that the gap in there is non-existent or a thousandth of an inch. Then install the board and use a second nut to hold it in place. Sounds a bit more complicated than it is. Also, in the case of the first nut, you could use washers instead.
You could also put a washer or 2 between the board and the back of the case so when you tighten the screw the board won’t move and bend the card.
I've already addressed the fitment in my "final" board. The one that is shown here is one of the later prototype versions. Taking account the thickness of the new PCB Backplate, it is essentially flush with the rear of the computer now.
Great video, have really enjoyed this series....WAIT a minute, did you just Rick Roll me ? (19:20)
WOW I was given an EX a long time ago never thought it was worth much but now i see differently . I will be looking into to @Robert Krenicki's mod for sure. Is there other stuff out there being developed for this Tandy? All I have is an EGA monitor and this Tandy as well as a 5.25 floppy somewhere in my piles. Thanks @Adrin Black!
Good old hx!
Any info on 640 K upgrade via IBM/PC Junior on an ISA card for the Tandy 1000?
9:22 Shocked to see Wang in this video!!
Camera upgrade! +1 like :-)
too kool!
Sweet !
Where can I get one of those, I have a Tandy's here and they will be happy with that card !
Shoot me an email at the address in the description to be put on the waiting list. :)
The ram problem may be not the same brand. I use to work on a video processor board assemblies and one day the new batch would not run the software. It ran diagnostics and other checks, but not system software. Noticed the only change was the ram chips. So had the chips replaced with some older chips from another board. It worked. We had to ban new brand. Most probably has to do with the frequencies and logic driving that cause the issue. We also built phone systems and had a list of card combos NOT to use because they did not work together.
This symptom reminds of a video card used on the voicemail systems. One day there was a card change and systems did not work (system software) although diagnostics did work. Had to ban that new card
That's exactly what should happen way (m)ore; working 2gether. Great minds add... :D Namasté
You look very 3D with the new camera
I wish I still had my Tandys (TL2 and 2500XL). 😭😔
Maybe send the weird RAM chips to EEVBlog - might be an interesting colaboration ??
It's probably just a sloppy square wave. Whether a chip accepts it or not is due to tolerances beyond the specifications of the chips.
yES PLZ
I had trouble with some 32k srams on a TI-99/4A project. Turned out the alliance chips worked well with an 74hct245 data bus buffer, but the marginal chips only worked well with a 74ls245 buffer.
@@jedimatt42 74hct245 Is a schmitt trigger buffer, right? That would make sense.
It's like VI. Impossible to get out of and it's the only thing I want to do
Have you checked the voltages of each system? If the one that fails is lower voltage, it could be the difference.
I was just wondering if the ebay chips need more voltage or bypass caps.
You know what would really make this board kick ass?
Since the port for the compact flash is IDE, make it pass thru so you can also add a IDE hard drive???
Or even SATA=> IDE?
I cannot find the fastgraf bios or any explanation of it.
The new camera makes a big difference tbh
Weld or solder a washer/nut onto the side of the metal bracket. That way it'll pull against the washer/nut and then into the bracket. Do that on each side of the bracket and it should be fine.
Much easier to drill and tap a hole. For the board I'm building, I made a separate PCB to be soldered on at a right angle, and made the holes large enough to accept PEM nuts.
I wonder if the difference as to whether the RAM chips work or not is partly due to propagation delays. On a 68020 CPU upgrade board for an Amiga 1000 certain chips on the board had to be 74F and not just 74LS. It wouldn't work with all 74LS parts. I wonder the use of 74F chips in that memory expansion board would help to make it work with those Chinese RAM chips. It would depend in part on the real speed rating of the RAM. If they are too slow reducing signal delays by using 74F chips may not be enough to allow them to work.
Did the camera crash tho?
Dumb question, Adrian, but is it possible to access the C drive from the built-in DOS-2.1 ROM? Am curious, as I just reveived an HX from a friend, and will be looking into an XT-CF for it.
Not with the way that the HX does its start up procedure. If you are booting from the "Internal ROM drive", it does not load the XTIDE Option ROM first.
16:22 It seems like bit 14 is always read as 1(or stored as 1) for some reason(Everything else seems fine). That’s weirdest thing I’ve ever seen.
If you look closely at Write and Read, only one of four hex digits are incorrect.
for my wishes would be a all in one CF + RS232 + parallel card. i already have the tandy dma ram card but would like to have the all in one and fill the last slot with a low profile adlib clone. i use a zip drive on a serial/parallel card now and a cf card but don't want to pull the cf everytime for data transfer so that is where zip comes in. currently using opl2lpt (adlib) on tandy edge lpt1 port but only some games work. having adlib with all in one is probably pushing my hopes but maybe some day.
Have you checked the voltages between the two systems? Maybe one of them has the rail turned up just a bit more and that is allowing the cheap china chips to work. That is still a thing on modern PCs so...
Hey! I have an old Tandy 1000 EX and have been wanting to upgrade the ram, so that the Tandy could supporter 8-bit games, for forever now, but ram boards are soo hard to find for the EX. Does this board support 8-bit?
I am not entirely sure what you are asking. The EX and HX are both "8-bit" systems, and this board does maximize the amount of RAM that the system can handle.
Nice Microsoft Home mouse!
Adrian, One thing that hasn't been mentioned is DMA. Does Robert's Card have a DMA Controller? And if not what does that effect for functionality?
@Adrian Black is correct, there is no DMA here. In normal use of an EX or HX, DMA has a marginal effect. It speeds up copying files from floppy a few percent, but nothing substantial. DMA is usually required for things like Ethernet Networking or a Sound Blaster, neither of which the EX/HX is really suited for.
what wifi modem are you using? i've been trying to get a couple of them but don't know where to get them from
Check out the WiModem232, about $55. www.cbmstuff.com/proddetail.php?prod=WiModem232OLED
Eucalypti is a butterfly
You know what would really make this nice? a header to be able to add more expansion cards so that this one doesn't have to be on top!
It is intended to be the only card in the machine. I could make a version with a passthrough, but it would require modifying the layout. What other card would you realistically put into an EX/HX machine?
What would happen if you install on top original 640k expansion board? Stuff blow up? Alarms at NORAD?
First, The way the board is laid out, it would not physically fit on top of the original card. It was always intended to completely replace the Tandy PLUS card, if the machine were equipped with one.
Second, as Adrian said, it would overlap the lower 384k of memory and would probably "work" but be quite unstable as the two sets of memory chips would be fighting back and forth.
19:20 epic rickroll
Can you boot from the 1000hx ROM and still access the CF card, memory and serial port?
The Memory and Serial port work fine from the DOS 2.1 in ROM. But the ROM DOS loads before the IDE BIOS does, so it cannot access the CF.
What can I do for my HX, since all I have so far from TexElec are a 1MB memory expansion card and an XT-CF card?
What else are you looking to do? My board is essentially the same 1MB expansion card (except stripped down to just what is needed for the EX/HX), a XT-CF-Lite card, along with a serial card, but all on one PCB.
"OK, that's crap." lol, i agree!
one last thing and really pushing my hopes would be 286 accelerator, CF + RS232 + parallel and adlib. now that would be a cool card.
In all honesty, if you want all of that, you might as well look at the 1000TL series instead of the EX or HX as it already has a 286 and standard ISA slots to add whatever you want.
I can say for sure that I will never make a card for the EX or HX that is designed for adding or includes an Adlib card, as in my opinion, the Tandy 3 voice sound and Tandy Graphics are the entire reason for using an EX or HX machine. I have zero interest in making something to "get around" those two functions. My design is fully open source, so if you want to make a version that includes some of those, go for it!
@@rkrenicki i actually i have a 1000TX that has been upgraded with "make it 486" and adlib and its nice to have the added speed and both sound options. i would like to upgrade my hx with a 286 and adlib that dosn't need the games to have a working patch for the opl2lpt adlib. the hx is also fine left alone "as is" but it would be neat to see if it can be done. the hx has limited space and slots and i am also not sure the power supply could handle too many electronics with cards going beyond the casing or within the casing. it would also be an eye sore doing such a thing if cards were added some how beyond the insides. i can see that many people would like to keep the hx or ex authentic to original as much as posible with added bonus of "All-in-one RAM + CF + RS232" card though.
OK, I had to look up "eucalypti". It's the plural of "eucalyptus". Although "eucalyptuses" is as well. (Used thefreedictionary.com) I've never seen a hangman program pick a word like that!
You should travel back in time and sell those a future proofing people's XT's. Access to solid state mass storage that's not yet invented. rs-232,full 640k. In the 80's that would be rokkin!
Time traveling would save me buying thousands of floppies in the 80's.
@@Okurka. Then you could invest your savings in Microsoft! Great point, I think I'll do that.
I have a Tandy 1000EX and i ordered 1 of your memory upgrade cards and assembled it. It works perfectly, the computer now has 640K of memory.
I wish you would make a video and show me how to make a XTIDE/CF adapter work on this computer. I may have to order one of the 3 in 1 adapters
like the one in your video.
I do now have more of the 3-in-1 boards available for shipping if you are still looking to buy one.
@@rkrenicki Hello Robert! I am interested - please!
@@airshackretro8551 Sorry, I am all sold out of built boards, but I do have plenty of PCB kits left. Please check out the link in the video description for ordering. :)
Next video - Building a robot with a tandy 1000.
Shift + F7 / No / Yes
How to exit Word Perfect is something I’ll probably still know when I’m 80!
Audio is a lot worse on this one than your regular videos. Are you using your new camera's mic or an external one? Are you using some sort of noise cancellation on it making it sound so compressed?
Also, this video doesn't look over-saturated to me like your past videos, so that's a plus.
@@adriansdigitalbasement Does the camera have any ports for a mic? A simple mic mounted above the comera that is wired to it would the easiest solution (no additional batteries that can get empty during filming and you dont have to get sound and video synchron again in Software later)
Doesn't sounds any different to me.
Your computer/phone must be crap.
@@retrogamer33 You know that the difference in audio quality gets more noticeable as your own equipment gets better? If you use bad laptop speakers you will notice much less problems than someone with nice headphones, because most problems are caused by your cheap speakers (like missing lower tones etc) and are the same for all contents. If you can normally hear everything well and one video seems to be worse than the rest, you will notice it. But this video has still acceptable audio. But as someone who mods old computers Adrian should be able to upgrade it further :) We are just trying to help
I have Windows 3.0 on my old 286 PC with just 640K of Ram it is slow DRAM. But ist works, i have a 20 MB HDD Original MFM HDD
Tandy is cool. However, I wonder if anyone has ever thought of creating an 8 bit
ISA TGA graphics card for other PC/XT computers? I know Lotech already sells a Tandy compatible sound card. Of course, a graphics card would be more difficult.
TGA is based on the custom Tandy chips, and the only real source for those is harvesting them from actual Tandy 1000 computers. Also, TGA is generally detected by scanning the BIOS for the word "Tandy" in certain locations, which other computers would not have. This is the same issue why the Tandy sound card that Texelec made is not properly detected in many games without patching the game.
Doesn't the ram plus boards for the ex/hx add a DMA controller which can make the computer faster?
Adding DMA does not by itself make the system faster, since none of the subsystems take advantage of the function. If you wanted to add a VGA card, full IDE card, or Sound Blaster card.. those would need and/or benefit from having DMA available. The XT-CF-Lite used here design does not use DMA, and Tandy Graphics and Sound do not require it either.
I have tested this board against an official 640k expansion, and the performance is essentially identical. Even though the SRAM is much faster, the speed is limited by the slowest RAM in the system.. the 256k on the motherboard.
@@rkrenicki I've always wondered about this. It seems like there is literally no advantage to adding the DMA, there isn't even another plus card you could add that would use it it seems.
@@rkrenicki Interesting. I was wondering the same thing (what about the DMA controller). I used an HX back in the days before and after getting the standard ram plus expansion board. One things I remember (beside having way more memory available) is PC speaker audio in some games behaving differently after getting the expansion board. Without the expansion board, in games like Accolade Test Drive or Defender of the Crown, the audio track would take long pauses while the floppy is loading. After getting the expansion board, no more pauses in audio while loading from the floppy. My guess was that maybe the floppy is using DMA when available and is not bogging down the CPU as much while transferring data.
@@laurencewhite4757 Since my original reply 2 years ago, I have learned a little more about this.
Non-DMA Tandy computers (1000, A, HD, EX, HX) had their DRAM Refresh handled by the Video controller. This chip can only handle the memory on the motherboard, and not the memory on any expansion cards. As such, any expansion memory for these models required a DMA chip specifically to handle the refresh cycles on the board itself. The fact that it added DMA channels was a "side benefit".
Since both Adrians memory board and my own "3-in-1" board for the EX and HX machines use an SRAM chip instead of DRAM, it does not require any external memory controller to handle refresh, and the DMA chip is not necessary.
where do we go now? I need this
I now have more available if you are still in need of one of these.