Commodore monitor tube swap: is it possible?
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 19 ส.ค. 2018
- Back to your regularly scheduled programming!
In this video I try to rejuvenate a 1992 vintage Commodore 1084S-D2 monitor by swapping the CRT from an old beat up Commodore 2002 made in 1986 into the 1084S! Will this be a fool's errand or will it actually work?
Models:
Commodore 2002 made in 1986 by Fujitsu
Commodore 1084S-D2 made in 1992 by Daewoo - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
If you're working with CRTs, think about the x-radiation. If you did anything wrong, did not swap fitting parts (eg. slim tube normal tube/ big tube small tube/ trinitron normal crt etc.), and because of a false yolk or a not compatible crt etc., the deflection is way too high, so that the electron beam hits the thin glass of the picture tube, it can be, that large amounts of x-radiation develop, which can be very dangerous for you. Also keep in mind, that the crt could potentially implode, if the electron beam hits the thin glass and your deflection yolk has no emergency shutdown, if that happens, because it heats up really quick. Please only work on CRTs, if you know really well, how to work on CRTs! If you don't know, how to do it, ask a professional, or hook a professional up! Anyways, I really liked the video! You did a great job on the tube swap, the picture looks way better now. ;)
Edit: This is only the knowledge, I have :D If i got anything wrong, please let me know! :)
P.S.: I know, this comment is a bit weird, but I'm just worrying about your safety! :D
Make sure to resolder the deguassing thermistor on board, especially the ones without a relay, they run hot. Remember you can move the yoke fwd and backward with rubber shims and you can ajd. the convergence magnets rings on back of yoke too, but it looks like it was pretty good. The B&W checker board is great for that and then check R,G,B colors and tweak with magnets on yoke. A good CRT doesn't need many stick on magnets for dark spots, but sometime you need a package full to get right. Don't forget to degauss when you turn/rotate set otherwise you are tuning/adj it to the wrong direction, the earth's magnetic field will throw it off especially larger CRT's. In other words, don't turn set on and then rotate it. It must be degaussed and kept in same spot to align without any strong magnets nearby. Good job!
Retrace lines are typically present when the screen brightness adjustment on the back of the flyback is set too high for the crt.
Thank you so much for publishing this video. It's going to help a lot of people who want to perform a tube swap!
your videos are really informative and you make it all really easy to understand! thank you!
Adrian, you did this like a boss. I used to do tube replacements and you didn't miss anything from what I could see.
I managed to get an 1084S-D for cheap a few months ago, and man, it's a great monitor. Had a 1902 with my Commodore 128 back in the day but it "disappeared" when i went to college lol. Great video!
Congrats mate, nice so see it worked out so well !
I am sure glad I stumbled upon your channel. I really enjoy it!
It looks like the plastic cap is stuck in the CRT socket.
Great video. I wish I'd seen this a few weeks ago when I was getting a crash course on CRTs. I fixed a 1080D that had serious sync issues (NTSC monitor but would only lock into PAL signals). Relatively simple full cap set replacement but I was nervous as all heck as it was my first time in a CRT. That monitor is back in action and absolutely stunning now. I only wish you showed yoke tuning as that is still a mystery to me and my display is about 2 degrees off in tilt.
Thanks for documenting this!
Love these kinds of videos , I need to do a tube swap for a professional video monitor when I find a suitable replacement
Awesome trouble shooting skills. Outstanding vintage tech, much appreciated CRT Tube swap.
Cool project, thanks for sharing.
At 18:25 I've seen one more magnet on the Orion CRT, under the label...
I have a couple of Amiga monitors so I watched to see what happened.The patchy white at 17' 20" needs the purity adjusting by rotating the magnets on the neck of the CRT. You should have a red raster to perform this adjustment. Glad it worked out for you.
One of the biggest determining factors in a swap is the heater voltages and the pin out matches and in similar time period. A lot of times you can find a tv with compatible tubes.. Just be careful of Zenith they had a few significant differences.
Adrian - it bothered me a bit because you didn't notice it (maybe you did), but the polarizing attachment (the bit that keys the pins on the neck of the CRT so that you cannot connect the socket the wrong way around) was actually present on the 2002; however, it had come unglued and was sitting in the socket.
I love the spin off show of wife swap
I went into cringe mode when you swapped out those jokes. I've had some nightmares with that. I'm also amazed how well the convergence went.. great job.. very interesting.
Cool process.
My original 30+ year old 1702 works perfectly. That, even after a 20 year stent in the moister ridden dirty shed. Good old commodore computer systems. Still useful, and still the best retro gear you can get.
First time I've seen your channel... Subbed!
Neat. You didn't have to mess with the convergence a whole lot? Interesting. I did a tube swap recently too. It was with 2 Sony CRT TVs. Also 13 inchers. A KV13TR24 and a KV-1393R. The 93R is a late 80s model with the TR24 being made in early 90s.
The convergance on the TR24 tube was better so I swapped them out. The yokes on them were a bit different but are electrically compatible. The implosion bands were the same, but how the grounding strap was handled was different. 93R's original tube had a metal cage type thing that surrounded the back of the tube and mounted to the implosion band with the same screws that hold it to the front bazel. But the TR24 didn't have this cage and the grounding wire mounted to metal spring tab things mounted to a plate on the bottom of the implosion band. (where as they attached to similar tabs but were mounted to the removable cage instead on the 93R's tube) Luckily though this design change did not obstruct the tube in either chassis so I didn't have to worry about this when swapping them.. The degause coils were also mounted a bit differently, but their connectors were identical so I didn't have to worry about this either.
The original yoke to the 93R is odd. It lacks the convergence adjustment rings entirely. So fixing convergence with that yoke was pretty much impossible. Couldn't get convergence to look good enough on bottom half of the screen and put in a spare yoke from a spare TR24 I used to own to get it mostly good. Though still didn't turn out as well as the TR24 tube so that's why I went through with the tube swap. The 93R has a classic 80s style woodgrain chassis so I wanted the better tube in that one.
(long story short, I ordered 2 TR24's off eBay. Both came damaged in shipping. Tube from first did not survive, used board from first to revive second which had also been damaged in shipping. But repaired neckboard and swapped the main board and it worked. Got refunded for both so I did not lose any money in the end. :P )
I found the 93R on a local Facebook garage sale group for only $10 and couldn't help but get it. It's nice having some spare parts/tube as I had a feeling they would be interchangeable. :D
So I now have some experience with correcting geometry/convergence issues with old 13 inch Trinitron TVs. :D
Besides the Trinitron's Aperture Grill being the well known difference from shadow-mask tubes like the ones you worked on in this video, there was one other important difference. They handle convergence a bit differently. There is one less pair of convergence rings on a Trinitron tube. At least with these old early 90s/late 80 ones I've worked on thus far. On a shadowmask they area all used for convergence and there's 3 pairs with each controlling position of each color on the screen.
But on a Trinitron only one pair is used for convergence while the second pair was used for color purity with an optional third single removable "half ring" for correcting/offsetting convergence of a particular color. The first pair moved 2 colors around. I think Red and one other color. The one that adjusted purity impacted the third color or perhaps interacted with one of the other colors too. I have not had to move this set around that much so not 100% sure on that.
Aligning the yoke is perhaps a bit more tricky on a Trinitron due to Trinitrons being flat on the vertical axis so positioning yoke correctly is more important. But aside from that, I found adjusting convergence on a Trinitron more pleasant of an experience then on a shadowmask tube. :D
Looks like you got off lucky on yours. Swapping yokes usually means hours of fine tuning the convergence but it looks like the convergence rings and the yoke are separate units so you got lucky there! Lucky that you didn't have to remove and re-position those rubber wedges the yoke sits on either. Sometimes you have to do that to get convergence/geometry to line up correctly when swapping yokes.
On a Trinitron, the magnets taped to the back of the tube are mostly to correct geometry issues. Looks like maybe they do something different on shadowmask tubes?
Yeah convergence adjustment on a Trinitron is interesting. There's a whole extra trim pot on the neckboard that's used for "Horizontal Static convergence" so in most cases you only have to really fiddle with vertical convergence when messing with the convergence rings. Another reason why I like Trinitrons over shadowmasks. :D
I haven't really seen a shadowmask tube with a separate convergence assembly. Maybe it's really only a thing on older monitors. I have a Dell e771p CRT VGA monitor (an early 2000s monitor) and I think the convergence rings and yoke are all one unit (that one is a shadowmask tube) as is the case for the 2 shadowmask TVs I have.
Convergence strips are usually used to correct convergence on the edges. (These are long rectangular strips that slide under the yoke) Interesting you had to use magnets on the tube to adjust that instead.
On my Trinitrons I've seen the stick on magnets effect mainly the geometry and don't impact convergence unless you get them close to the yoke. I've been using convergence strips to fix convergence issues in the corners. Trinitrons almost always need the corners corrected due to how the screen isn't curved on the vertical axis. I guess the Trinitrons you've run into haven't had issues with that. But the 2 Trinitrons I have both don't have perfect corner convergance. Granted they were much worse when I first got them. I managed to fix them mostly with the convergence strips that came with them + a few extra I made from coke bottle plastic and metal bits removed from a box cutter razer blade.
Factory usually installs convergence strips where they are needed but high end models like PVMs and VGA PC monitors may be using electromagnets/some kind of system where it can be controlled by the main board and usually convergence on those doesn't drift a whole lot when they get old like the lower end consumer TVs tend to do. The yokes on monitors/PVMs tend to be more complex then on TVs. This isn't a thing exclusive to Trinitrons. I wish TV makers didn't cut so many corners with the electronics they use to drive the CRTs. So tired of seeing screen size change with bright objects/vertical geometry distort a little with certain bright screens on the TVs I have. But I don't think there's anything I can do about that. :P
My Dell e771p has some convergence strips installed by the factory as well and I had to make my own to make a little adjustment in the top right corner. The right side edge is still a bit off but not sure if I can really fix it until I get some proper strips. I wonder if the way these strips alter the magnetic field change with age? That's the only reason I can think of why the convergence isn't perfect on the edges anymore.
Oh and as for focus control, most CRT monitors have separate focus controls for horizontal and vertical focus. But your monitor only has one control like TVs. Maybe it only became a thing when higher resolution CRTs started appearing.
I have yet to look at the guts of a VGA/PVM Trinitron though. :P
I hope to get a Trinitron monitor though. The KV1393R despite being from the 80s looks fantastic. I can't imagine how good a high resolution VGA monitor using a Trinitron would look like. The picture quality of my Delll e771p is already really great. (can run 720p stuff on it comfortably given it's specs. :D )
VGA monitors are really underrated. They are basically PVMs without the 15khz support and can be driven to really high resolutions. :D
I plan to get a RetroTink 2x so I can hook up composite video/component video sources (like my Nintendo Wii) to my VGA monitor(s). It's gonna look nice. :D
@@adriansdigitalbasement It is true. CRT's really don't ship well. Back in the days, I'd try to buy monitors from eBay, but most sellers were afraid to ship them.
While it's absolutely wonderful that you mentioned that poking around inside a CRT is dangerous, and the anode has very high voltages passing through it, you're only liable to get a painful bite from it, not death (ignoring a previously existing condition).
The area that is very liable to take you out if you go poking around is the power supply. The massive filter caps there hold enough current that if THEY short across your heart, you're gonna be on the way out.
For the purposes of Adrian's disclaimer, I think this comment is mostly hair-splitting, because there's nothing wrong with his warning (with big red warning text); it's targeted toward the general public who might be watching this and get the wrong ideas without sufficient working knowledge of older technology. I understand you're offering corrections, but because the second part of your statement is gated behind TH-cam's "read more" expansion, it's liable to muddy the waters further and confuse the same individuals he's attempting to warn away simply because they may overlook the rest of your comment.
Oh here we go. Caps caps danger danger. You won’t die. I got shocked off a line output valve anode the other day...
Methinks you're underestimating the litigious nature of society, particularly in the US. Believe me, I wish that weren't the case, but here we are.
People find creative ways to kill or maim themselves every day. Their next of kin often find even more creative things to sue for. I'm OK with Adrian taking precautions to head that off and dissuade people from doing things that might result in any of the above. If you don't see why that is, I'd encourage you to actively work toward legal reform at the local and federal levels to mitigate some of the fears that lead to these warnings in the first place!
I didn't mean it as so much of a correction, more as an addendum to what was said in the video. I agree absolutely with making sure people are aware that these things can be dangerous and that they shouldn't just go poking around inside things they don't properly understand, only that making them aware that there's more to worry about inside a CRT than just the anode which is what many people tend to freak out about.
Kitty KatKya I don't think you realize that the high voltage from the fly back going into the CRT turns the glass tube into a large capacitor that has the same basic capabilities as a cap on the high voltage section of the PCB. (High current and high voltage shocks) so the warning in this video is rightfully so. To many warnings can never be harmful but too little can be, and you can never assume what your audience may have previously knowledge of so you have to treat them as if they've never been near or around a CRT television before.
I’ve done it with 19” zenith tube to other from mid 80’s and worked well
It’s one thing to get nipped by 120 volts, but getting a bit of the horizontal yoke voltage is something else completely! Had the misfortune of doing so in TV repair lab many years ago. Can’t remember how it happened, likely I was turning around and got too close to the tripler module (which some TVs have to boost the flyback output to derive the needed voltages for focus etc.). Stung for a while.
That is really cool that you were able to swap both picture tubes and go both of the monitors to work. Had I done that same swap I am sure I would have killed both monitors.
Yokes are adjustable, you're meant to adjust them after swapping the tube, it's a basic thing with CRTs.
Fantastic video. But I have to comment on your ALC shirt! I used to do bike transport with Scott and Wayne!
I used to have an 1084 with the slow phosphors. Bit of ghosting but nice colors, kind of pastel-like.
I love your probes! It's funny how they look exactly like a couple of screwdrivers with alligator clips on them. ;)
... Woah, I've never heard of "deflocculated acheson graphite" before... I've always called it "the black gunk they put inside".... :)
... And I never knew about convergence assemblies or taping magnets round the CRT either.... this has been a mine of interesting CRT information.
The magnets kinda remind me of balancing weights on a car's wheels.
It is one area of IT I always tried avoiding and that was working on CRT's in the 90s. Though I have replaced many components on my CRT's and TV's at the time to fix them.
This is great! It is cool to go back and see where all the crt swapping began. Since the deflection yoke is an inductor, I wonder if it requires a tuned circuit with sufficient capacitance to operate properly. 🤔
Yes the yoke and flyback system is a tuned circuit. You can learn more about it if you watch Shango066's youtube channel. He does CRT televisions all the time. He also does am/fm radios.
The horizontal stage and yoke are tuned to resonate together, so yea the yoke usually has to Stay. much less critical when going from something of a similar brand, but not from two completely different monitors. Also the issue you had with the color on the right, thats called purity. When setting up a CRT, you have to move the yoke forward or backwards to correct purity imbalances, that's why those little rubber stoppers are in front of the yoke with the yoke resting up against it, as once its setup, those are inserted to stop the yoke from moving around causing drift. Maybe there was in issue with that particular yoke, like an imperfection in manufacturing so they needed the magnets. Who knows.
I am super super surprised after swapping a yoke on a color CRT that your purity was not way worse than that, on top of the convergence. Keeping the same convergence ring definitely helped there, but I have seen some yokes where they are all in one. And those are fun to setup.
CRT anode shock is pretty nasty, believe me, I've tried. Once even got a jolt off a running one. Got a little black pinhole in my finger from that.
Yup, very bad aftershock feeling - hands a bit shaking for a half of hour after 24kV discharge through my fingertips. It'll definely not kill you if voltage discharge through fingers but it can shock, so you'll become practically speachless for quite some time. And got adrenaline overdose for a short time period. I do not recommend this experience.
Oh yeah. Had a 25 inch tv once, G2 was too high. So I took off the back to try and adjust, but turned out the HV was't working properly either. I came close to the Anode cable and it zapped me from like an inch distance. It's a nasty taser.
I had 230V shock.
The magnets on the yoke, are likely balance chokes for the field of the yoke coils...
No one mentioned a CRT Rejuvenator/Tester ? I have one and its great for old video arcade machines and my monochrome oscilloscopes to clean the neck guns or just to clean balance them to almost new if theres any life in the neck. The old B&K 467 does a great job on older tubes and gentle enough to work on newer finer ones too.
Thanks for the video. I'm still working up the courage to RGB mod one of my consumer Sony Trinitrons. One of these days....
Great job.
I am planning on a CRT swap project too. (or whatever needs to be done to have a perfect example)
I have two Philips 32PW9551 TVs, HD ready with HDMI ports, but CRTs.
I was dumb enough to drop the first one with really low hours on it and the second one I get probably won't be as good.
The first one shows a very similar discoloration as your swapped monitor without the magnets on it, makes me want to experiment with that.
A lot of good info here, keep up the good work.
If you've dropped the set & now the purity is messed up then the magnets could possibly help, although I'd suggest checking the convergence/purity rings haven't been shocked loose & maybe attempt some correction via those first. Another possibility I believe is that the shadow mask may have distorted depending how it was dropped (onto it's front would be worst I think). If that's the case you'd struggle to get it right but still worth a try. must be pretty rare to have an HD CRT set
@@danmackintosh6325 Hey, sorry, I never read your respond until now. Never got a notification.
It turned out the first one I had had 15k hours on it (which is nothing for a CRT). It got dropped on its lower left corner on the bottom of the set.
But the second one turned out to be even better, only 6k hours. The picture was also better. I ended up selling the first one on (even though the case damage and the slightly messed up picture, someone was willing to pay for it and pick it up). The second one was not dropped, I actually found somebody who is ready to help me so I don't have to lift these 50kg myself.
This is a great TV. I have an Android TV hooked up to it and everything on it looks great. 1080p is even running in progressive scan, not interlaced like TVs usually are. It really looks like a giant CRT PC monitor.
@@Halterung01 no worries man, YT notifications are weird. Good that you found an even better set & the other found a home too. Sometimes purity issues aren't that big a deal just for watching TV, it's not as noticable as on a blank raster or plain backgrounds.
great job!!!!
Thumbs up for Atari TOS on Commodore monitor. Would love to see more of that ST which seems to be in need of a floppy drive.
Flyback EHT is unlikely to kill you. There is much less current available than the mains-derived EHT supplies of pre-war TV sets.
You will know about it if you get a belt, though .....
coolest!
6:00-ish did that tube not have the plastic from the start or did the neckboard take it with when you pulled it off? The black part of the socket kinda looks like it was supposed to be attached to the tube instead.
The plastic IS part of the CRT. I couldn't believe he didn't realized that the plastic was loose and got stuck in the socket.
Adrian, you realize what this means don't you? You can go back in time to the 8 bit era and make your living as a computer and TV repairman! It's the perfect cover, nobody will suspect you're from the future.
Oh, that Atari ST Gem Desktop brings me back... I miss my Mega ST.
My Dad used to swap tubes all the time some times a shock and lanuch to the couch! Lol
Never did anything like that. The closest I came is when the bezel button went bad on a LCD work monitor, so it would not turn on. I tried to get it repaired as it was still fairly new. Dell tells me to just replace it. I held onto it for years sitting on my office floor. An identical monitor goes bad some years later. The LCD or something was shot. A simple bezel swap gave me a working monitor.
The 1084 does have digital RGB input - it's the same input as the analogue RGB, autosensing.
Good job :-)
I've been shocked by an anode before; it won't kill you unless it is powered.
It's extremely uncommon to hear of any deaths from people getting zapped by a CRT, but still entirely feasible.
As you know, the tube itself acts as the HV capacitor, and the impulsive current from getting zapped can easily be more than enough to upset the electrical activity of the heart.
It's still quite unlikely for the average person to die from it unless they have a preexisting condition, but then millions of people have undiagnosed heart issues, so it's never a good idea.
The point is, if things are done properly, there should be NO chance of getting a shock, and it's really no big deal at all to safely discharge a CRT (and the larger caps).
I used to repair CRT TVs and monitors in the 90s / 00s, and not once did I get a full-on jolt from a CRT or flyback.
The only time I ever got a mild zap was while discharging a 28" Baird colour tube which had been powered off for a few hours. The ground strap to the chassis wasn't secured properly, so a small arc jumped to my thumb. lol
I wasn't using a proper discharge tool though, but the zap was more of a surprise than anything.
Plus, my other hand was in my pocket, and I wasn't directly standing on the ground, so there was no chance of getting a full hit across the heart.
And, as somebody else on here said - the power supply section on most CRTs is a FAR greater hazard.
On some of the older / larger sets, there can be some fairly hefty caps in the PSU, which are not guaranteed to self-discharge, and can supply huge impulsive current if you get shocked by them, even when powered off.
But yeah, it's all about knowing the risks, not taking silly chances, and safely discharging everything before working on it.
CRTs aren't actually THAT scary once you've been working on them a few years. ;)
ElectronAsh
ElectronAsh I was taking these apart to recycle them. I took apart a lot of them, and never once did I get shocked by the capacitors, despite not being totally aware that they could be a problem.
@@infinitecanadian
If they were mainly newer sets (say from the early 90s) onwards, then the caps likely did self-discharge after a few hours, or when the SMPS did its last few pulses.
I think the older 80s sets could tend to leave the caps charged for longer, but yeah, it's mainly a hazard when powered up.
Even the smaller CRTs often discharge quite a lot within a few hours, but not always.
They were 80s and 90s sets. There was even a tube set.
14:26 this looks like the screen was made out of fiberglass XD
The tubes in the tv sets is the same thing. When you need reeplace the tube, you can put another tube of another brand. Make sure that if the neck is fat or thin, the transplant tube needs the same neck thickness
ADRIAN BLACK, can you explain more about how a monitor works in theory it takes the RGB signals and how does it convert the RGB signals into Horizontal & Vertical deflection signals? and the H&V sync signals does what to the CRT tube? Is the monitors circuit board ground an isolated ground and why is it an isolated ground? The Deflection coil does what to the RGB signals?
I do this for arcade restorations when the burn in is way to bad or the crt is otherwise bad.
wolvenar absolutely
If you have an inductance meter, you can test yokes. It is not so much resistance as it is inductance. You may need to do purity and convergence maybe but if it looks good, leave it alone before you get shocked.
Brill, thats answered a Q that always been on my mind... What about HV protection gloves? do they exist and would they indeed resist HV?
Rubber cleaning gloves you use in the kitchen and bathroom work well. Nevertheless with voltages this high it is always a good idea to use multiple protections. Besides wearing gloves, wear shoes with thick soles, and avoid using your left hand as much as possible (because a shock on your left hand goes through your heart, on the right this is much less a thing).
They indeed do exist. We use the low rated ones at work for working on hybrid vehicles.
Did you consider using a crt rejuvenator on the dim tube? They sometimes work amazing magic on "worn out" tubes.
You can use a set of aligator clip leads (done it in the past when I've needed to rejuvenate an odd tube) to connect up a tube you don't have a connector for, you can also bump the heater voltage, run it a volt higher and it can give a worthwhile improvement
The latter really is just like running a brightener though isn't it, unlikely to be practical for any length of time other than a few hours whilst sourcing a replacement tube?
@@danmackintosh6325 , it cleans the electrodes, but removes some material in the process. So if the dimness is due to buildup on the electrodes, then it can last a very long time.
Man it scares me when you work so close to the crt neck after breaking a few myself
Not so much a waste of time, the yoke thing, it was an interesting experiment IMO. Nice vids, consider me subscribed. Cheers.
One of my 12 Commodore CRTs, an 1084S that was working fine up until yesterday. I was working with no problems a week ago last time I used my A1200. Then yesterday nothing when I turned it on to play my newest Infocom game on my A1200. Well not nothing. 1. The red power light was not coming on at all. 2. I'm pretty sure I was getting high voltage because the 4 different times I tried I could hear the high pitch spin up when I turned it on and also could hear the wind down when I pressed the power switch to turn it off. I have many spare CRTs so I just swapped it out and played the game that I was looking forward to playing. I have watched a ton of CRT repair videos from you and many other Commodore & retro computer TH-camrs. This is not ringing any bells with the power light not coming on but the high voltage spinning up. Have you ever come across this?
If you look at the ORION tube, there seem to still be something UNDER the label. (Top right corner in die video, bottom right of the label). Are those still magnets?
I have a Gateway EVF720 with a tube that is getting blurry at higher brightnesses, any ideas how to fix it?(or if I need a new tube, where to find one?)
I had a commodore monitor for a short time. I got it for free but sold it for cheap. I had and still have way too many cheap crts already and i want to get rid of them so i can buy some quality trinitrons instead
Those rings are not for convergence. They are purity magnets. Convergence is set by tilting the deflection yoke with rubber wedges. Older CRT televisions actually had dynamic convergence adjustments on the CRT board. Later CRTs had better shadow masks and gun alignment, and, thu,s were only statically converged by manipulating the yoke.
I have changed several crts
Hey Adrian, what test pattern generator are you using?
I'm trying to select one suitable for these old monitors. (15khz sync)
It's a Tektronix model I got off eBay. I wanted to have Composite, S-Video and RGB so found on after some searching. If I recall it was maybe $50 shipped and it's a great unit. Check there tons available.
Try hot swapping the CRTs :P
Not planning a tube swap myself, but just out of curiosity, how do you discharge a tube before opening?
th-cam.com/video/xYIteus2ZDU/w-d-xo.html
Here a crack, there a crack, everywhere a crack crack, Old MAC Donald had a CBM...
You could try rejuvenate the old tube to get more life out of it or find a scrap tv. Subscribed
Darn, maybe I should have kept my old Philips/Commodore monitor, it had a smoke out in the main board, I searched for ages for a circuit diagram, then gave up and ditched it. Maybe I should have kept it for its tube.
I am nit picking , but you said the magnets were there because of a chassis issue. I am pretty sure the chassis has nothing to do with convergence, its totally tube related.
you might want to do some reading about that.
personally i would not do what you did unless last resort! like last one on earth!
thanks for video though.
Didn't see anyone else mention but never lay a CRT flat on the face like that. It's usually ok but if there is debris in the neck you can obliterate the phosphor on the face. You can get flakes of metal oxides from impurities coming off the guns after the tube gets old. They are heavy and can make a crater in the phosphor.
Particles never get as far as the phosphor on a shadowmask CRT as the shadowmask gets in the way. What can (rarely) happen is particles get stuck in the shadowmask.
On color CRTs that have a shadow mask I'll agree it's hard to get particles through. But that's 1950s/60s tech and good CRTs from the 90s don't have a shadow mask. Even if they do the mask doesn't always go edge to edge, or the edge can come loose slightly (it just clicks in place around the edge) with age and heat expansion. Particles can sneak around the mask if you rotate it correctly in that case. Sony Triniton and other high contrast CRTs have no mask and instead use an aperature grill with much wider slots to allow more energy from the beam through. That's a very fine wire grill that heavy oxide particles from the guns can break through and land on the phosphor cratering it. This is especially bad if you use a tube rejuvenator and create additional oxides trying to clear shorts in the guns or even just from the short clearing itself. You create a ton of fine particulates with faulty guns.
I'm wondering, I'm planning on fixing an old Vectrex console, and as one might know, it has a CRT inside it. Been powerless for years, is there still voltage inside? :|
@@adriansdigitalbasement Fair. A screwdriver to the cathode. Or was it anode...
Yeah, I will not touch a crt unless my life depends on it.
The first time you work on one and decarge it is scary but after a few times of doing it you get use to it and it seems just like another day.
It's really not too bad if you discharge everything properly, although they are admittedly incredibly complex
probably wouldn't be compatible, but you could try putting a trinitron crt in the one that has a weaker tube lol. obviously dont sacrifice a working trinitron monitor though (use one with a good crt , but non repairable circuitry), because sacrificing a good trinitron would just be distasteful.
@@adriansdigitalbasement even if you cant mount it, it may be electrically compatible. and its not hard to make a crt enclosure
Is it possible to DIY build your own CRT ?
i am also wondering this
Dave Rowland Everything but the yoke assembly, the tube and one other thing I am forgetting about.
Basically CRT tube making is literally a lost art.
It's definitely possible, but highly unlikely you'd want to go through the expense and time of doing so. Probably easier to take a worn CRT and rebuild it, you need less equipment since you only need to replace the guns/filament assembly but it would still take extreme care, glassworking skills, equipment like CRT lathes, ovens, vacuum pulling gear & a way to flash the getters after all that. That's if it's still possible to buy the gun assemblies at all, I imagine China still has a source if you wanted to try.
I prefer the exterior look of the 2002 over the 1084s. Something about that grey border.
yeah I do also
Yeah that's true.
If its been dropped i would be worried about the shadow mask in the crt being damaged.
Working with computers is standard. Working with CRT's is black magic.
How did you fix horizontal line align, so it is parallel with top of the screen?
Undo the screw on the yoke and twist the whole yoke around left or right until the picture is parallel.
Yes, in the meantime i fixed mine by doing just that.
NOTE IT'S NOT ENOUGH TO DISCONNECT EVEN FOR A LONG TIME THE MONITOR FOR THE CTR TO DISCHARGE. ENVEN DISCONNECTED FOR A LOOOOOOOOOOONG TIME CRTs CAN BE LETAL.
Drinking game: Take a shot every time this guy says "CRT", "picture tube", "monitor", or "deflection yolk".
You'll be hammered by the end.
Especially as he keeps pointing at the wrong thing, too.
i changed a lot tubes, different logics, i make my owns monitors.
How does one make their own crt tube? Aren’t they like super complicated?
my no name vga crt from 1999 makes weird ticking noises along with a flicker every 1 to 10 minutes, what is the cause?
The high voltage flyback transformer is changing fields quickly and can cause the chirping. Usually it's the electrolytic capacitors in the power supply drying out about to go bad. They do dry out eventually.
The other cause is the flyback transformer has had a happy life and there is a short forming on the inside.
The third thing could be all the dirt and dust causing hot spots on the board which can affect the circuit tuning and performance. Carefully clean the inside out with the set unplugged. Observe safety precautions.
That flyback is about to die. I wish i could find another CRT to replace it. Its a cheap monitor anyways.
you do not have to mve the yoke because if you bought a new crt it wouldn't have a yoke with it
it's not called the neck board it's called a tube base pcb
I have always heard it referred to as neckboard.
20 kv? Heh, screw microwaves.
never teach people discharge ?
Not sure what's up but the audio is corrupt on every video of yours I've watched. Constantly dropouts and gets farther and farther behind the video. Don't see that on anyone else's videos.
Adrian Black All of your videos do this on my Chromecast. Never seen that on any other video. Since you mentioned transcode I played them on my tablet directly and they play perfectly. It must be transcoding to the Chromecast in real-time?
Adrian Black these are first gen units. Might just be something with them or newer firmware issues with this hardware. They've had numerous bizarre issues with playback over the years. Great videos either way! Thanks for recording all this! Fixing up some old 8 bit machines lately. Handy to see what other hardware has compatible parts especially. My 1702 monitor is the best CRT I've ever seen and I used to repair TVs for a living. 😉
Don't try this at home...
Chill out can you hold your hands still for just 2 seconds? And now what ? Looks the same as before.
just swap the pins to match!!!!! not rocket science adrian......