2023 USBC String Pinsetter Report
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 16 มิ.ย. 2024
- 2023 USBC String Pinsetter Report
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Leave the game alone
Absolutely agree with you!
It's just a slightly different form of bowling and it shouldn't matter competitively if all the players use the same string system. Tennis players need to play on different court surfaces all the time.
You should feel more pity for NASCAR drivers, who can NEVER go back to an older car iteration that they liked.
You said it, it isn't real bowling. We want bowling not a fake carnival version if it. A better comparison in your statement would be between tennis and pickleball
You can say that, but the problem is that a lot of bowling places are on the edge of closing, so unfortunately in a lot of cases it's going to be either this or no bowling at all.
@@isaacholzwarth That's not the case here in my home country Philippines. Many Bowling Centers here aren't declining and all of them are still running Free Fall Pinsetters. Same thing with malls here, they're still alive than in the US. So its not the Free Fall Pinsetters what's causing center shutting down, its just the way managers or proprietors ran their business like they don't promote or commercialize their business to gain more revenue.
I hate the idea of string settings. If this becomes the norm I will quit bowling entirely
Am with you!
Been bowling 30+ years. The day the PBA allows strings is the day I sell everything.
Agreed. I am a current PBA member and I will never bowl on any lane with string pin setters
So, you will give up something you enjoy doing just because you cannot accept change? I hate string setters also. There is a center by my house that uses them. My wife and I both do not like it after trying it several times. But, if that is all that becomes available, we would still bowl. For right now, we have two other options near us.
@@DaveCM Yup, that's what they are counting on.... the driver here is shops like Bowlero that make $$ on non-bowling enthusiasts (parties) and are purely margin driven. Reducing maintenance/employee costs improves their profits, and share price. But for those who are bowling enthusiasts, this ruins it. I would maybe keep bowling, but this will kill the sport as we know it.
@@DaveCM I tend to agree. I would like the golf ball rolled back, I wish softball HRs weren't so easy to hit, and I don't want string pins. But as with those other games, I'd still enjoy bowling if it's relatively close to the game I've enjoyed for so long.
This is just an awful stance to have. Everyone who is against stringsetters, miss to see the fact that it becomes a little harder to strike. Therefor, it requires more skills an consistency to strike. You would have to be a better bowler to strike as often on stringpin as on freefall. How this is a bad thing, is something I will never fathom.
On the flipside, some spares are easier. Pin action is different, and some spares are made where they shouldnt be made with freefall. At the same time, some spares you WOULD make on freefall, will now sometimes be hindered by stringpins. This equals out to a scoring rate that is off by a single point. If you go to bowl 20 games on stringpin, and 20 games on freefall, I promise you the average score you make throughout those game will be nearly identical.
I understand that change is scary, but saying "I dont like it" without having any basis to real statistics that signals that the change is so big you shouldnt like it, just defeats your whole idea of not liking it. You dont like it because it is different. The outcome of the games will be the same, so the argument being made isnt that you dont like it because it ruins the game. Because it really does not. There is no evidence to show that it does. The evidence points to the contrary.
We are all entitled to our own opinions, but basing your opinions solely on your feelings, is just a toxic stance to have. Research done on the subject, especially as of late with new standards and new machines, shows that the game scores the same. If the game scores the same, why would different pin action be such a huge issue? The argument that it ruins the game is defeated by statistical analysis. If anything, it enhances the game, since strikes are more difficult.
I challenge you all to do some research on the topic, rather than forming your opinions without any statistical data that backs your claims up.
I think this is the wrong answer to the correct problem. This is just my opinion.
Strings are seeking to reduce costs for centers. I get it. But you’re telling me that no one has been able to design a free fall pin setter that’s more affordable and can be mass produced? We have self driving vehicles, spaceships, high speed rails and all sorts of insane technology. But a group of engineers cannot figure out how to make 10 pins stand up in a cost effective way without strings? Looking at it from that perspective, it seems a little silly that we’re optimizing string material and length rather than re designing how a free fall pin setter works in the first place.
I clearly don’t have as much knowledge on this topic as anyone at USBC. But what I cannot help but wonder is how on earth there is no other solution than this.
If it keeps the sport alive and helps centers, it makes sense, but I can’t say it doesn’t make me disappointed either.
just put strings for the masses and a kid in the pit for league night. HOLLER HOUSE lemme hear ya!!! 🤣
That's my view as well. I've been told by Brunswick staff that a machine with magnets was experimented with, but they didn't make it work. I say they didn't try hard enough.
Magnets
Agree 100%... but it's really not a surprise. We are not a proactive species, we are reactive... and by and large, we're lazy. Human beings like quick fixes, and simple solutions... and if it's quick, simple, and CHEAP well... we're all over it like flies on shit, especially in the Good 'Ole US of A.. Doesn't matter if something is actually a GOOD idea or not, if it can quickly turn a profit, then integrity and common sense be damned! Show me da money! 🤣👍 Anybody who didn't see this coming, hasn't been paying attention...
@@bowlingxp8345 Yo I was going to joke about making them magnetic, and how they'd all stick together. That's wild!
This is completely ridiculous... you wanna have some lanes like that for open bowlers, go ahead... but from a competition standpoint... it's absurd... I've bowled competitively for a long time... they go full strings, I'm gone and never looking back
Yes, the absurdity of the USBC! Will be a goner also with no intentions of ever looking back!
Bowlero will be all over this and start converting as soon as they can 😂
you are most likely right! nobody will do this in league play
Yep. One of the centers around where I live already have plans this fall 😬
@@Christian-qu6yv wow say goodbye to business for them
@@steviejay7106 nope open bowling going way up in there center and there going to make more then they do for leagues
They converted mine almost a month ago already 💀
All this data is irrelevant. Bowling has been the way it is for several generations. Think about why this is a thing all of a sudden. Companies want more money, and that's the bottom line. String pins don't improve the game in any way other than to increase profit for the bowling centers. These Bowlero houses already charge $8 a game but that clearly isn't enough for them.
You're right on! Follow the money right down to the bowels of avaricious greed...
What do you think the purpose of a business is..?
I've been bowling for over 30 years , bowl competitively in tournaments and do well and have tons of fun. Bowl in leagues faithfully. I've been talking to many bowlers, everyone would quit bowling if they go to string pin setters. It will kill the sport of bowling.
Centres closing will kill it faster.
@@Steve-eq8iz So be it. The market will decide. Maybe it will split off...the fake Putt Putt version, and the real sport.
Must be the same people who said 2 handed bowling is unfair also.
@@Steve-eq8iz Six of one, half dozen of the other... either way, dead is dead.
@@Steve-eq8iz only in Western Countries where Bowling Centers would closed every year. Bowling in Asia is a lot different because they're keeping their operations really good and there's no reason for them to switch to Garbage Strings.
string setters are an abomination. Sanctioned competition of ANY kind should NEVER be considered when using string setters. What's next? The PBA silly string open?
They might as well make it cosmic bowling all around too.
If my favorite center can’t afford to maintain traditional pinsetters and their option is to close, I’ll cheer for string pinsetters. I will still get a certified average and they will figure out a conversion at some point. The Open remain free fall and preserve the heritage no matter what I’m sure. Cheers to USBC for putting in the research to find a consistent standard for this new technology!
The PBA won't ever switch to them, but remember the low the PBA had fallen when they tried those gold pins? PBA isn't doing bad these days, they got a formula that helps the players by having a shorter season and packing events at one city saving them a huge expense of going around to different towns each week.
The USBC, BPAA, etc will FIND the data they want to see or hear on this topic because the financial incentives are too great. It’s inevitable. But please, don’t lie to us as to the motives here. We’ll respect you more if you just come out and say we need this to make the sport economically viable.
They need this because the minimum wage is raising again, and this is a way to eliminate jobs, to increase profitability. And maybe this is relevant to the mom-and pop centers which are slowly disappearing sadly; but to the conglomerate crap like Bowlero, it just means more greedy pocket-lining. I've heard horror stories from families that have gone to their centers, where they take their credit card at the door, and after 2 hours leave with a $300-400 bill. And now they're colluding with the USBC to make these league-sanctioned? Pure trash.
Yup... this falls squarely in the "Don't piss on my leg and tell me its raining" category. 🤣
Like with everything else in life, people don't see the trouble with going cheap.
Sure, they'll save enough money to stay in business with strings. But what will they do when they can't stay in business that way anymore?
It's a race to the bottom.
@@KC9UDXYes, a race to the bottom, like a bowling ball falling off a cliff on a blocked lane!
I'll stick with free fall pins thanks
These will kill the game. I'm sure bowlero will be all over it soon
They just added it to a Bowlero in my area (San Jose, CA) - it is absolutely HORRIBLE… 🙁😢
If they add it its most likely going to be on private lanes
@@WilmingtonOHProductionsprivate as in bowlero facilities?
They have already talked about it and I have already seen videos of bolero centers with them in. Remember bowlero is a publicly traded company, they answer to share holders not bowlers.
@@dp92492 Well then that's where the Bowlers buy a crap ton of Bowlero shares, THEN they would have to listen
I REFUSE TO BOWL WITH THE PINS ON STRING.
Admire your emphasis with the upper case lettering. BTW, share in your emphasis!
It is time the USBC is replaced with a different governing body. One that will stand for the integrity and preservation of the sport. One that is receptive to the feedback of the athletes, rather than caving to the pressure of large corporate bowling center conglomerates and equipment manufacturers. The USBC's "Future for the Sport" is not the future that bowlers should stand for.
GOOD POINT!
Hey Chad, how does it feel to be presiding over the demise of a century-old sport? I gotta know...
Good Question!
Usbc the bud light of bowling
Ouch 😂
I can understand using strings in places like Main Event where they have bowling, game room, laser tag, and restaurant all under one roof. But for your more traditional bowling centers where the only things are a small game room and snack bar I think need to stay away if they know what is really best for them. Leagues will almost cease to exist and feel those centers will eventually shut down.
Even the main event that was 15 minutes away from me that sadly gotten shutdown had free falling pin setters, I been to other places that has bowling that you think would have string pinsetters but surprisingly they didn't
I will not bowl on strings. As much as I love the game I will hang it up if freefall pins are not available.
We already have a house in our area like that and all the leagues have left that house!
Good! I hope that center and any other center that does this garbage goes out of business.
Im an ex league bowler and ex brunswick+AMF tech - its sad to say that string machines will need approving if the game is to stay alive for many years to come.
Owning a center of just pinsetters alone is extremely expensive and with ghe economic pressures felt globally, cheaper methods need to be sourced to keep activities alive.
I dont like it nor do i accept it but it is what it is.
thats depressing
Totally. It's like Home Depot self checkout. #endtimes
I'd quit bowling if they all switched to this.
I work on pinsetters..... And am trained on the Brunswick string pinsetter... Yea, string pins don't need mechanics... They can be untangled through an app on the phone. Those machines are made for cost. These things cost our new centers about $25k per pair for strings....as opposed to $40k for the GS-X's I work on. Strings require barely $1,000 in spare parts in the back as opposed to about $20k in spare parts I carry in the back for my GS-X's. The frames per stop are considerably less on strings, the requirement of someone with any mechanical skill whatsoever is virtually eliminated, and the cost to maintain overall is less. The whole point of strings is money and labor.... It is why it is being pushed so hard to be certified so big centers can essentially reduce their costs by huge amounts.....Centers that stay open means more $$ for the USBC. String pins can be maintained by the same $10/hr person who rang up your pizza slice. Every month all you have to do (major PM) is rotate pins and check strings (which are sold in pre-cut lengths btw).
So, all the stats and testing being done is to push for the reduction of cost all the way around.... Don't fool yourselves, these WILL be certified and start making their way into your home centers. USBC is just throwing up smoke to make it look like they really had a hard time coming to the conclusion...In reality, they have already decided...Now, they are setting the standard for the string pinsetters to operate by is all. The way they look at it, the new generation of bowlers will very soon be growing up on these string pins... and they won't know any different. The change will happen... and there will be videos out about the old A-2 houses still in operation that are extremely rare... Our centers plan to have all our A-2 and GS-X pinsetters phased out and replaced by string pins in the next 5 years. They have already done an A-2 to string swap in one center.
And what will happen to the old pinsetters? I'd like to purchase a pair for myself.
Heres an idea for a cheap pinsetter.
The sweep: similar to a gs-x execpt have tiny parts that lock into place in the side wall to push the sweep back and forth. When the sweep is finished the parts unextend and a string gets pulled and locked in place by a gear. When the sweep needs to come down, the gear loosens the string and the sweep comes back down.
The pintable: have pins get lifted up by a pin elevator similar to a gs-x. When the pins reach the top the pin cups in the pintable move on a track. The track moves each pin cup in front of the pin elevator which will not release the pin until a pin cup is in place. To release and pick up the pins the pins will have a tiny hole on the top that the pin cups will use to grab the pins by extending a part that locks in to the pin so it wont fall.
The pit: the pit will have a wall that will wait until the pintable sets the pins down to push the ball to make sure the ball doesnt get stuck.
Another idea: strings lower the pins and retract. When the player throws a ball the strings will lower down and pick up any pins that are left on the deck. The sweep will then lower and clear all the pins that are knocked over. The pins will then get lifted up by the pin elevator and put in to a pin cup. The pin cup will then rotate and the string will attach to the pin. To make sure the pin cups arent in the way of the strings they will retract.
To stop bowling from dying they should have events at centers that offer free coaching sessions for people that want to start bowling. Bowlero needs to have summer passes and kids bowl free.
Hopefully they see how much hate string pinsetters have.
Did they change speeds to see if ball speed will make a difference with split conversions or even strike rates because I can see pins fly around and strings playing a part
It seems that USBC has been on a mission the last few years to ruin the sport of bowling. That what happens when an entity has a monopoly on a product or business, they do whatever they want. We really need the PBA to grow their brand of certifying bowlers for league play. Hopefully bowling centers do not convert over to this string pin garbage. Way to go USBC! Keep on manipulating rules and making nonsense changes to the very fabric of the sport we all grew up with. Hats off to you.
All started with the damn weight hole ban...
I agree... but as I watch Bowlero convert all their centers in the Bay Area to strings, it makes me wonder.. given Bowlero owns the PBA. Has me nervous.
Glad to see my distaste of these things being backed up by actual data. 7% fewer strikes is abominable, and that's with tons of testing and tweaking. Unless they can get that within 2% I feel that it should not be considered for tournament play.
I have no interest in this, and I really feel like this will be embraced by the corporate overlords for cutting costs, disregarding the players.
They also leave Pinsetter mechanics unemployed. Only 1 person can work behind Strings while the others will leave because their jobs will be useless with this lazy contraption.
This is why I plan on building my own set of lanes.
Bowling centers need to pay the mechanic guy in the back alot more. they don't get enough respect for maintaining the machines. USBC u will loose in the long run guarantee.
Fair point, however with string pinsetters mechanics may not be at the same value anymore. There is already a shortage of mechanics so maybe String Pinsetters will possibility be better for the centers.
Can't pay a mechanic anything if you go out of business... and the simple fact is that bowling is not as popular as it once was. Like everything else, it's supply and demand. If more people bowled on a regular basis, then we wouldn't have seen one center after another close up shop over the last 20-30 years, and we wouldn't be having this conversation. But the economic realities of the bowing industry are what they are... and just blindly demanding that mechanics be paid more money isn't gonna solve anything, because that by itself won't bring any more customers through the front door... it'll just ensure that those doors will close for good that much sooner.
just started to bowl more, bought my first ball and shoes as it has just been something to do occasionally - was thinking of going more regularly and maybe joining a league next year but if string pins become the norm, I'll find something else to do and bowling will stay as it has, maybe take a grandkid once in a blue moon - something to do when nothing else comes to mind.
UK are going full on Strings. Installers insist its the only way that Proprietors will go due to the cost involved and saving that canbe made as centres become "Leisure" establishments and far from Tenpin Bowling Centres. Some places are even installing 40ft lanes and odd numbers of lanes and cater only for the Saturday night crowds. !! The game is either gone or going fast.....
Oh, the game is alive & well.
The sport is dead.
@@industriastroll3177 Imagine the blasphemy when they started firing all the pinboys!!
Need to stop this shit immediately or the sport will die.
I will QUIT bowling before i EVER bowl with string pins….
Same here!
First off idk how I feel about string pins I bowl 5 days a week plus tournaments all free fall setters. Maybe I’m just old school but what I can see happening is that string pins will be optional at first but once not enough centers are using them then free fall will become outlawed. Idk just a feeling I have.
0:45 wouldn’t have been a spare without the string
They acknowledge this specifically 5 seconds later, it was the point of the clip.
Well, I’ve been bowling since I was five years old. I don’t think it’s a good idea for them to just change the pin setters to string pins. It’s going to lose a lot of business, but I have a very strong feeling it might not happen because everybody’s gonna be very upset.
The centers trying to stay afloat and in business are not going to take your feelings into account on the decision. Profit margin and operating costs is the driver, not the opinion’s of dinosaurs afraid of change.
@@remoevans7847 appreciate the sarcasm. I am aware about how everything is becoming expensive and business is slowly dwindling but hopefully that it’s gonna last but maybe It can be balanced, half strings, and half freefall just like in Canada
@@chiclids Sarcasm and facts are two separate things. The game has experienced a myriad of changes over the past 40 years and no amount of complaining ever stopped any of them. The dinosaurs can’t escape extinction and that time is drawing closer with every passing day.
@@remoevans7847 all I’m saying is there should be a balance and mother nature is full of it and I’m not being all political here I’m born in the 1980s and for the new generation, not thinking bowling is interesting enough is kind of sad
@@chiclids As Gen Xer that has been bowling longer, all I’m saying is you’re too young to be thinking like the typical Boomer. When the bus is coming you have 2 options, get on board or get out of the way.
Fake. Carnival game trash. Go ahead and Bud Light yourselves. We'll all watch and laugh.
Why stop at strings? Why not just have 10 lasers shooting upward at the end of the lane and a computer records your entry angle and gives you a statistical result of strike or a count remaining? No more busted pin setters, no more strings, no more maintenance. Just have a computer give an approximate score to the bowler...
I like it. You can wear goggles that will simulate the pins falling as your ball goes through the sensors. They can have an up charge for 3 "messengers" per game so you can get a higher score!!
@@ripvanrevs haha!
Do not let the fact that this will be a separate classification i.e. Sport, Challenge, Recreation get in the way of a good rant. Bowlers would never be happy if they didn’t always have something to complain about.
Better yet, why don't we just simply go full video game? Wii bowling leagues anyone?
@@kristopher_rand😂
I took the grandkids to Chipper's in Broomfield Colorado and noticed they had changed to strings and thought, what a I am doing in an arcade! I felt like I was playing skeeball! I get that the recreational bowler could care less and if that is where the bulk of the establishments revenue comes from then so be it. I only bowl in one league a week and an occasional tournament but I will first look for a bowling center with free fall pins first. If free fall pins become obsolete, then I will have to adapt or not bowl at all. I guess I've adapted to a game where a 300 game isn't that rare due to the easy oil layouts and advancements in bowling balls, so I think I can adapt to puppet strings on pins. That said, it will be a sad day for sure.
I used to Bowl 🎳 their in High School around 03 04 then bowled their for a couple of years before COVID hit then didn't go 🔙 for a couple of years and went bowling with a Buddy thought I was seeing stuff at first but nope pins were on strings so Damn cheesy if this becomes the 🆕 norm I will unfortunately stop 🛑 Bowling 🎳
This just sounds terrible. Because look at how overly technical it needs to be to kind of be like normal, but not really. Then you have to consider how each house is going to keep up with requirements to have it be kind of like normal? It sound like it would be a nightmare and the inconsistencies center to center would be even more then it already is, and not in a good way.
That sure is a lot of work for something that no player ever asked for and everybody hates.
Went to our local Main Event center where they have string pins and it was totally different than normal. I even made a 7-10 and almost made the greek in the same session... never have made them in normal bowling. I honestly hate string pins but i get where its going. By the time its relevant the game will be past me anyways so its going to be the kids who have to deal w it.
Exactly what the politicians think about global warming. ❤
@@Glatzel132 Only string pinsetters are real.
That's if there's a sport of bowling still around for our children & grandchildren. It's a shame they would have to deal with it in the first place.
I work for them and all new centers are getting them and they have already started converting the older centers to strings. They told me 5 to 7yrs for my center. Also, all Main Event centers were USBC certified until end of 2022... They decided not to re-certify because the USBC DOUBLED the price to certify our lanes....
Old school , all the way!!!!
Give me a Brunswick GS-NXT anyday than this crap
I have bowled since I was born. I am 46. Strings SUCK. The first big change I remember was electronic scoring. Which we were told you will be able to focus more on the game (not sure how that works since with hand scoring you had to pay attention to know what to mark down and to watch for cheating but what the hell do I know) and it would be cheaper because no more buying the bulbs and score sheets however I remember our cost GOING UP! 2 nd big change SYNTHETIC LANES. We were told that this was better because each lane would be the same and no saw dust from sanding and less up keep it would be CHEAPER and nicer for us the bowler. However the old bowling balls didnt seem to work as well anymore and when trying to slide you stick like you hit super glue. So now you need a new ball!! Those balls now are 220-300$ and last about 3 yrs they also require MORE oil on the lanes and these balls suck oil like a sponge! So from 50-100 bucks for a ball we are at 220-300$ and SHOES that need switch out soles because moisture in the air gums up these synthetic puppies like tar! 200-300 for shoes now! But did the cost go down? Oh hell no SKY HIGH! 300 games were rare now its almost every night!! Balls that you could use for 20+ yrs are now good for 2-3 yrs and thats if you bake them to cook out the oil they absorb which in the process breaks down the ball!!! The USBC has upped the sanction cost but in return stripped bare any rewards you get. from trophies to KEY CHAINS!! And you only get 1 300 ring anymore you have to pay for if you want one for each 300 you roll! Can you get a center to oil like they should with all of these HIGH performance balls we had to go to because of synthetic lanes OH HELL NO THAT COSTS MONEY!! So they tell you to adjust! Do you really see people adjusting anymore? Nope! I can the same line damn near all night when on fresh oil. How about the stripping and re-oiling? All done now by one machine WHICH DOES NOT STRIP WELL leaving the backends oily and the pin decks oily allowing pins to slide rather than be knocked over and increasing out of ranges!! Does any place offer a fun good time anymore? Not really. The managers used to run the concourse on fun nights giving out prizes like during Rock n bowl sessions and have you do goofy things to earn a prize while playing good music! Now they think some flashing lights or color changing pin deck lights is an “EXPERIENCE” all the while playing FM MUSIC COMMERCIALS INCLUDED! Now with this being said some of you asshats want to say that centers need to cut costs? Oh they have and have shoved it onto us!! All the while gaslighting us into believing that we are having the times of lives!! BULLS**T!! A center by me just was sold and the new owner just replaced the AMF 82-30s with the Brunswick string machines. Now granted those machines are super old and finding the electronic parts of the 60’s is pretty damn difficult and those machines were pretty tired. HOWEVER all open play games have gone up by 1.50 league rates went up 2$ a person pop went up his party rates went up by 40%! Yet he is saving on parts and a mechanic and blah blah. Where is this damn savings I have been hearing about for the last 32 yrs? HMMM? The centers that have closed around me have closed because the owner wanted to retire and somebody unfamiliar with bowling bought it! And didnt know what they were doing. Nobody wants to put in work and effort anymore to deliver a FUN TIME they now want it to run on its own with little effort and be able to buy a mansion and yacht within a month!! This center that just put in strings has already told his weekly leagues he doesnt care if they leave! I just wonder how he figures on making money during the week when parents dont bring kids out for fun because of work and school. Leagues have died off (which I argue is because the industry itself has forced ppl out) so I get not having leagues on Fri-Sat nights. But if he thinks he will make ends meet by killing off his other 5 bizness days I bet he will come to regret it. As for me It will be a cold day in Hell before I ever spend a dime in a center with string machines.
I like the term "puppet pins" better.
or maybe, Puppeteer Bowling.
They say it will be harder to strike and less 300 games. I can see centers making a lot bc it will bring ppl in to want to try it out. They should just use string pins as practice lanes or ppl that want to use string pins and half the rest of lanes free fall. Then everyone’s happy win/win
THEY ARE MAKING THE SPORT OF BOWLING AN ARCADE GAME
I have already share some tournement with string pin and the results are the same. Good player dominate lobby and the others mate try their best game to climb the leaderboard.
Even if tjere are string pin, you still habe to know what happen with oil pattern. Surely string pin can help but you don t become a champion just for that. It s necessary to work before.
Ihave already played games at 150 or 160. I had to correct my positions on the approach to get better score.
(I am sorry my english is so bad)
Good luck every one for your next championship. 😁
Thats it :) You still have to play the game as usual, the string would only help 1 out of 100 shots.
String pinsetters, the solution nobody wanted for the problem that didn't exist.
Imagine growing up only to lead the end of an entire sport.
The problem is bowling alleys aren't making enough money. The solution the string setters provides is less maintainance and downtime. All well and good to say "I'll never use a string setter for competitive play" until the nearest free fall alley is an hour and a half away by car, which over the next decade is going to be more and more common for people.
@@Steve-eq8iz If they aren't making enough money, then try to promote the business and make a commercial of it to draw more attention. Also if they want less maintainance and down time, hire Pinboys instead. In the end, if they want a cheaper pinsetter get the Brunswick GS-NXT
In my opinion bowling centers are losing money because lack of customer service am old school and customer service should be a priority if they care about making money start there offer better menu for food, have waiters or waitresses on the floor here you are bowling in a tournament the house is full you want something to eat or drink tu have to walk to a long line to order ooops I have leave the line because is my turn to bowl again is ridiculous specially if someone is bowling way down the high end of the center there mo way, so people just don’t buy nothing and this is every where you go even stores mo one there to help that is a no no, business don’t save money by eliminating customer service, customers service is a good repeat of customer for life, my opinion, you can have the spring pins you want raise prices, whatever but if your customer sucks so is your business, just saying
@@Steve-eq8iz the nearest usable center to me is already an hour and a half away. The one bowlmore 5 minutes from my apartment doesn't even oil the lanes anymore. The local center 20 minutes away is charging $50/person/hour anymore. It's ridiculous
I am really surprised on how they don’t see how unfair this is going to be when they approved this in the USBC and the PBA.
They told us this at the convention and we all hated the idea I will quit bowling before I bowl on this shitty arcade game!!
I always thought they would try to implement string pins in bowling centers like they do with arcade bowling setups. I understand they want to find a way to lower costs; bowling alleys use a lot of electricity. I can see this being used in a casual bowling environment but not in a traditional bowling center where leagues and tournaments are held. However; this not only will create new problems with strings and such, but bowling pins are designed to move a certain way when you hit them and these pins with strings attached to them will likely change the way the pins move when bowlers hit them.
Both of the centers in my area have taken out the high use of electricity.. Both centers, 2 miles apart, use solar to offset cost. Sure it cost a bunch up front, but in the end, it's good for the power bill and the environment !
Picking up hard spares makes the game fun watta joke
So you didnt watched the whole video then.
String pin setters and the two handed delivery will make a total mockery of the game.
StringPin is a mockery yes but not for 2 Handers.
This is like playing on arcade centers.
You’re telling me that soon, a new category of competition bowling will be played on the same stuffs that KIDS usually play on. That is mental!
I WILL QUIT BOWLING IF THIS SHIT IS IMPLIMENTED!!
DITTO!!!!!!!
So what if a team would regularly bowl league in a string pin house, then go to a city or state tournament in a free fall house. I see where they are seeing what to do on the case of averages. Ours here are free fall and I’m sure will remain free fall being it’s a new center, just totally rebuilt after a fire 3 years ago. I would get string pins if had the chance, just to see how they compare and how I would score. I average 185. And bowl 2 leagues and tournaments every season.
Thumbs down. We are watching the slow death of bowling. If our center switches to string pins, I'm done with bowling.
It's been a slow death for decades... this will make it a mad dash to the gallows.
I like string bowling...I convert a 7-10 split every time.
I really wanted to see an innovation on pinsetters, but I don't think string is the right way to go... maybe using magnets...? or improving the current ones, I don't know, but I think it must stay free falling
string ten-pin bowling is fine and can be lots of fun, but it should be a separate category and never replace free-fall ten-pin bowling
Yes, train a new generation of automatic pinsesetter mechanics & pay them a decent wage. Make free falling pins about 1/2 pound heavier with single voids & a lower center of gravity. This just may keep league & competitive bowlers in the bowling alleys & present more of a challenge at the same time. Finally, incentivize one or more manufacturing companies to fabricate affordable parts for the automatic pinsetters that are in existence & stiil in service. The alternative, string pins & devastate the sport entirely.
This is a dead end..taking away why we all bowl... NO STRING BOWLING LANES!!!!!!
Unfortunately the house where I bowl went to the strings and there really isn’t that much difference as far as the scoring averages the things I see and notice is you will get what we call string carry also your ability to pick up splits increased.. the strike percentage goes down and we found you have to make a good shot majority of the time being there’s always a true spot .. now leaving ten pins or seven pins seem to me is a little more common I bowl from both sides so I have a perspective from right or left .. for the owners of these centers it makes sense a lot less need for a mechanic which are getting far and fewer to find .. the problem we ran into is the machines they sold to the house we bowl in do not meet the requirements for approval from USBC which have put many of us that bowl to bowl a lot farther away living in rural Ga that means around an hour drive to get a sanctioned average..
This sounds like something that centers that don't really care about bowling would love. The kind that care about laser tag and open bowling more then leagues and tournaments. I really don't like this direction.
Yes you are correct. Most FEC(Family Entertainment Centers) will have these...
It's inevitable. Competitive bowling declines in popularity every year and outside of some major population centres it just can't support the bowling alleys the way they used to. They need other revenue sources. Free fall isn't going to go away, but it will probably become a lot rarer in small and medium sized cities. Competitive bowlers will just have to drive further to get to a "premium" alley.
@@Steve-eq8iz Hey Steve. You don't think the sport has been growing again in the past 2 years? With this new generation of pro's and youtube giving people a look behind the scenes like we have never had before it seems like its on an upward swing.
@@scorpiodude18 It just seems like its catering to centers that don't care about bowling. These centers that say they are having a hard time staying open ( at least the ones in my area) are the ones that ran off all their league and tournament players for open bowling. So then the only people going there are non regular bowlers. They rely on people coming there once or twice a year for birthday parties instead people who will be there 1, 2, 3 times a week? IDK im just ranting now.
@@cbrdealerNo, it's not growing. The number of sanctioned bowlers has been in steady decline for decades. and is currently at or near it's all time low. The PBA TV ratings have enjoyed a bump of late... but again. when you're in the basement, there's nowhere to go but up. If it were a thriving industry, nobody would be talking about the need for massive cost-cutting, and these garbage string- pins.
I pay more to be on a traditional lane as they are much more maintenance heavy
Somebody at USBC got their pockets filled on this. They sugar coated the whole video. We are looking into bowling at private bowling facilities that are not owned or in the Bowlero family. You know they are pushing for this crap too. No one I know is happy about this.
No words, just
🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️
How much kick back is the USBC getting from the strings??
The USBC doing a report on String Setter's is like the NFL doing a report on concussions.
The SIMPLE fix to nearly all of this controversy is simply have bowlers carry two yearbook averages, and let people bowl in what houses and what events they want, or is better suited to their game. This movement to say that string and free fall setters are equal is ridiculous on it's face.
Bowlero will absolutely jump all over this. They only care about making money off of open bowlers. Open bowlers wouldn't care if they convert to string setters and pins. Us competitive bowlers mean nothing to them. My hometown Bowlero has actually already started testing string pins and I'll tell you right now I won't come back next season for my sport shot league if they do a full conversion. This will be the beginning of the end.
Good analysis! Agree with you wholeheartedly!
1. How many alleys will actually pay for the certified string pins?
2. We like our messengers!!
It’s 2023, why are spring pin setters still a thing?
Why were they ever a thing?
What’s wrong with the pin setters we have now USBC ??
Cost to buy, cost to operate. Everything in this wretched world is about money.
@@notonyourlife7939 Yep and they want money through laziness, not performance 🙄
USBC isn't mandating that centers go to strings; it's the industry that's looking to do it, so USBC started researching the affect on scoring and spare/split conversion to see if they could be realistically sanctioned and at what level of conversion compared to free-fall pinsetters.
@@jglotzbach3264 They might as well mandate it... any centers that were on the fence just got the excuse they needed. Can't wait to see how many break the "good news" to their leagues when they finish in a couple of weeks...🤮
THIS IS THE WORST IDEA EVER
worked in a 5 pin string center for 20 years. String pins do NOT behave like freefall ones. When the strings get worn they tangle all the time. This is a BAD idea.
Time for a new slogan, folks..."A Future For The Sport" no longer applies, now that you're allowing this travesty. RIP competitive bowling...
The slogan should be more forthright & honest by stating, "A death knell for the sport of bowling"!
Did the usbc test the messenger pin likelihood? Can’t throw a messenger with a string attached to it. The pba pros will be upset over that !!
That's part of the 10% reduction in strikes
Simply cannot top the pin action of free falling pins. That's what it's all about. Strings are an impediment that would hamper pin action as we know it. Strings is a big mistake! The USBC knows it & they don't care!
This will kill the sport. Not help it.
I'm impressed, so many comments let me think that they didnt watched the whole video :D
How come? I watched the whole thing. It is a little concerning that this may be the norm one day.
@@jtjt1836 lot of comments are based on the first few mins of the vid i believe were pins got slamed by the string. But that doesnt seem to be the case anymore or at least in a very marginal amount. If the strings can compare to the free fall nearly very closely, then comments like " i quit bowling" or "easy split convertions inc" doesnt make sense to me.
I watched the entire video and wasn't impressed with this concept. I known a lot of mechanics would fear losing their jobs because of this lazy machine with not much work going on. Yet lousy pin action, tangled pins and slow rolling lightweight bowling balls sitting on the Pindeck ? No way this machine would be great. I bet those people wanted Strings are the same people prefer getting those lousy inflatable halloween decorations just because its "easier" when in reality they're being lazy.
@@PinoyBowlerGS92 if its easier to maintain would be a plus for the flow of the game but sure you got the stop with the tangle. For public its better i think for (semi)proffesional bowling we will see. I mean i got stuck on league cause the pinsetter failed to pick up and set the pins correctly. In this vid it seem at least more accurate.
@@sm4r7sh4d3r I prefer a Free Fall Pinsetter that's easier to maintain and at the same time for the mechanics not feeling that their jobs are useless. That's why the GS-NXT is my best choice of a pinsetter because it gets rid a lot of moving parts and resolves all the problematic from its GSX predeccessor. Also I've been there where pins aren't picked up and not spotted correctly, that's just poor maintainance and the mechanics didn't do their job to clean and fix them.
Okay, this will reduce costs for the operators but will they reduce the already high prices? Some places are $9 a game.
Don't even think about it!
Why not just also add tracks for bowlers to run their bowling balls down. That way they can get strikes every time and also cut down on entanglements?
Rates better be dirt cheap if a center converts. I can't stand centers that charge Bowlero rates with this garbage..
Strings are economically great for entertainment, practice, and test facilities, but I don't think they should be for league/tournament play.
Light mixer strikes are also eliminated with these machines causing bowlers to leave 4-5 or 5-6 (left-handed) split combinations. The epic pinaction we know from free fall is gone.
Bowlero desperately wants to make the conversion! It will then be more expensive, NOT cheaper!
I am lucky enough to have 4 centers near me - i will just keep moving from lane to lane to keep to the old ways. I dont like change.
Synthetic lanes ruined the game...strings are a folly....should never be used for sanctioned competition!
Synthetic Lanes had nothing to do with it. In fact I like Synthetic Lanes better that outdated Wood Lanes because they hold my Ball Reaction really good and not overhook. Plus Wood Lanes are a hassle to maintain, gets easily uneven from resurfacing and easliy gets damage from lofting the ball. I speak from experience tho.
String Pinsetters is where I draw the line and I hate it. Give me a GS-NXT Pinsetter anyday than that crap.
Not interested in string pins at all. The day my local alley switches to string pins is the day I will quit bowling.
Bowling: How can we piss off the bowling purists?
1970s: High backswing!
1980s: Synthetic lanes!
1990s: Reactive bowling balls!
2010s: Two-handed bowling!
2020s: Pins on strings!
String pin setters are to bowling what the restricter plate is to NASCAR.
I will quit if they ever go to strong bowling. I already ring enough ten pins I don't need to get screwed by strings no thanks. Absolutely not!
Bruh the split pick up was the most unrealistic pick up you can’t have that in a video promoting these lol
The moment the ABC and WIBC became the USBC and moved their operations to Texas to be next to the BPAA we could see this coming. Here in Milwaukee we're left with the only two large tournament style centers owned by AMF/Bowlaro. Largest independent house left here is a 35 lane house that literally put up a false wall over one of the lanes to divide a "Party Room" and "Standard area."
I understand the idea of recreational play working these things but it's NOT bowling. In the 90's we all wring our hands about the "System of Bowling" and the 3 unit rule to watch this go from a sport to a game. And that's what strings are: a game.
Strings belong with the rec players and the Birthday parties period. And there's nothing wrong with that but don't try to tell us it's the same game.
Want to return freefall play to a sport? Sign up to bowl in a pro pattern league and with tighten up the weight of the new synthetic pins to within one ounce to a matched set. (Preferably 3lbs 10 oz) Synthetic pins, synthetic decks, along with synthetic kickback plates and flat channels have turned the back end into a pinball machine. So perhaps even up the weight of the pins to 4lbs flat in the sport and pro leagues.
(Again, I'm not bitching about the use of synthetics here. Considering the amout of pounding the decks take it's understandable as more and more centers moved first to still haveing a wood lane to going to a synthetic deck and back end. Then as the houses reached the end of their wood lanes lifecycle who would reinstall wood lanes anymore? ( I personally only know of one house in the 90's that did so, every one else either went full synthetic or closed. And the house that did go wood? Closed less then 10 years later.)
We've seen a lot of changes over the years, from polyester to urethane to reactive. From full wood lanes to overlays to full synthetics. From Telescores to automatic scoring to pinsetters that can do their own reapots. But (IMO) strings are just too far if we ever want to consider this a sport and not just a pastime.
You're so right, the move from Milwaukee, WI to Arlington, TX was the writing on the wall. The transformation from wood to synthetic has certainly turned bowling pins into wild ricochet objects. The great bowling coach, Bill Taylor, warned us back in the 1960's about the creation of bowling pins that fell too easily. When pins became lighter with double voids & a much higher center of gravity, then add synthetic, scores soared exponentially. Of which has proved to be blunderous. Heavier pins, around 4 lbs., as you suggested, would go a long ways in reigning in scores & completely negate string pins. Also, reverting back to a single void & greatly lowering the center of gravity would make knocking down pins much more challenging. Strings are nonsense. Changing free falling pins to the aforementioned criteria makes common sense in bringing more of a challenge back to the sport.
Messengers will be a thing of lore... as in bigfoot, never seen
and in france with energy crisis . many center goes to string ):
They are going to kill the game. I have no desire to bowl on string pin lanes. I think it will be the end of a great tradition.
What is the ACTUAL COST of a sting pinsetter vs a free fall setter. No one ever says it. They just say it's cheaper. I know you cant gauge to the penny, but some figures would be helpful. We all just assume they would be cheaper because they said so, so it must be true. USBC did us wrong on 6 balls earlier this year, so why do we just believe what they say now?
A string pin machine costs about $6-7K, versus $20-30K for a free-fall machine. The strings also use about 1/10th as much electricity as they have FAR fewer moving parts and motors constantly running. Bowling center electric bills are massive... can be as much as $10-$15K a month, depending on the number of lanes. Taking 90%off the top of that bill every month would almost be enough to finance the up front cost of the machines, unless it's a really huge center. From an owner's perspective, going string is a no-brainer. Unfortunately it'll send competitive bowling right down the shitter...
@@notonyourlife7939 thanks for some perspective! I too wish there was a more cost effective free fall option, but maybe it takes somthing crappy like strings to force the industry into something REALLY better and cheaper.
@@WoodrowBoudreaux The writing is on the wall... the powers that be already have their cheap solution. Minus a large scale mutiny and outright refusal of virtually all pros and advanced amateurs to compete on strings... which would have to include ALL the current "faces of the sport"...then there won't be much incentive for anyone to seek an alternative. Nobody's gonna care what Joe Average thinks about it, because we don't sell bowling balls... you'd have to get all the pros to become publicly vocal about how crappy these things are .. and I don't see that happening.
In addition to the lower up-front cost, the maintenance expense is astronomically lower --- fewer mechanics needed (probably just one) and fewer and cheaper parts to replace/maintain. Also, add in that many centers are having a hard time finding good pinsetter mechanics, especially for the old A-2s, and it makes sense. I hate the idea of string pinsetters, but I understand the business rationale behind a center switching to them.
@@jglotzbach3264 One mechanic? Try none...the first thing these places will do is fire the mechanic. A high school kid, or a trained chimp...and today it's often hard to tell the difference...can untangle the strings, and/ or perform whatever periodic maintenance will be required on these God-awful things. And today's lane machines drive themselves....pinsetter mechanics are about to join milk men and stage coach drivers on the ash heap of history.
I think it's coming whether bowlers want it or not.
I know it is, because they expressly said so in this video. 08/01/23 they will introduce them, and by 2025, pending acceptable results, they will phase them in as normal. Of course they'll do it.
What's next???
Strings attached to the ball so a lift mechanism isn't necessary to return it to the bowler?
And how about the rule (that stood for years) that a pin or pins that slide off-spot after the first ball delivery MUST be returned to the off-spot position for the second ball.
How will string machine accomplish that? It won't, because it can't.
That's what makes OOR's so magical!
I don't like the strings.
But I wonder why they chose to complicate things by putting the strings on the top in stead of the bottom.
Stupid..just stupid. Honestly are they just hoping this is a cheaper alternative for pin machines? Free fall is the ONLY bowling that I will ever recognize. I can just see it now...this won't be its "own" thing for long...they will convert all alleys to this, just watch.
30 years ago, league bowlers is what kept centers in business. Today, the business model has completely changed, it's recreational bowlers that keep it afloat. I don't think most recreational bowlers care about strings or not. It's so hard for a bowling house to make a profit as they are usually in very expensive tax areas where the land is worth millions and thus pay an huge amount in property taxes. The PBA itself isn't doing bad these days, packing events into a condensed schedule is better for the players as they don't have to tour week to week anymore like the 70s and 80s.