Helmets have saved me from traumatic brain injury at least three times when I was a kid. Once skating, once snowboarding, and once on a bike. The idea of doing something dangerous like riding a motorcycle without a helmet blows my mind. The sheer cost of TBIs and deaths caused by not wearing helmets makes it seem like having a law against it is worth it or at least make insurance rates sky high for people who don't wear helmets.
Cali rider here. So glad we have toll lanes now that are free for motorcycles. No more splitting for me, it always made me exhausted by the time I got home.
I live in Illinois which does not require helmets and it's unlikely we will ever have lane splitting or filtering legalized because of the lack of helmet law. I do wear a helmet and I can't help but notice the correlation of Harley riders and no helmet in Illinois. I would love to be able to filter to the head of the line at intersections rather than sitting in line hoping all the car and truck drivers coming up behind me are paying attention but I doubt it will ever happen. Requiring a helmet the first couple years I think is a good compromise but any helmet law in Illinois will be looked at as a negative change. BTW, I agree with Spurgeon that 400 to 500 CC's is more than enough for anyone starting out. I have been riding a KTM Duke 390 going on three years now and I'm way faster than all but the fastest cars on the road. I would avoid a 250ish size bike or scooter for anything more than maybe a small town or university environment where you need the ability to keep up with traffic. The Duke has been perfect in the time I have owned it and 70+ mpg for my commute to work has made me smile at the gas pump many times over!
Where I live, in Canada (and in most other countries around the world), helmets are mandated at all times on motorcycles, on or off road. The interesting part of the "freedom" controversy surrounding them comes down to medical expense. The REAL reason most countries require them is because most of us have some degree of socialized health care (which the USA does not), and wearing of helmets is shown to decrease the likelihood of severe traumatic brain injury, which is very, VERY expensive to treat medically, causing undue pressure on our medical system budgets for the number of people represented. If you want to truly make it a "freedom" issue in America, let the insurance companies decide whether they wish to REFUSE to cover any rider NOT wearing an approved helmet, and to price coverage for non-helmeted riders accordingly. If you're ready to pay a couple of hundred a month for your insurance, good for you... be my guest. I'm not. Oh, and just for the record, if you can FIND an approved helmet out there today that actually restricts the peripheral vision to any degree worth even talking about, please let me know so that I can avoid buying it. Most people's peripheral vision falls inside about 60 degrees. A FEW of us have peripheral that gets up past 80 degrees, but that's the exception rather than the rule. Too many riders seriously overestimate their peripheral vision capabilities... which, I should note, tend to deteriorate with age. Motorcycle sound systems: go for it... but if you contravene local noise bylaws and get a nice expensive ticket, that's on you. If someone vandalizes your bike in a parking lot because they're sick of listening to your shit, so is that. Don't be a dick. And let's be honest... speakers IN your helmet offer much better sound quality on the bike. (Oh... and I can't STAND Taylor Swift!) Tiered licensing: We have it in Ontario. We actually have similarly tiered licensing for regular car drivers. I approve of it for new, young drivers and riders. I feel that it is a good training aid for youngsters, who still tend to be speed demons and have not yet realized that they are NOT immortal. However, as an older rider returning to riding motorcycles after several decades with an eye specifically toward doing some touring, I hate it, because it is NOT age-specific here. ONE INTERESTING THOUGHT: Maybe we ought to use DOWN-tiering of licenses as a penalty! When some jackass gets stopped for doing 40 or 50 over, in addition to the fine, knock them back down to a restricted license. The second big con for lane-splitting is OPTICS. Car drivers take a LONG time to get used to the concept, especially in today's road-rage-heavy traffic environment. They don't LIKE that motorcycles are "unfairly" cutting through traffic. This is going to increase road rage incidents and negative perceptions of motorcyclists anywhere lane-splitting is newly introduced UNLESS there is a concentrated educational advertising campaign by the jurisdiction accompanying the change in law... and good luck getting any government to spring for that. Big question: Doe you REALLY want to piss off the road-raging cager in the two ton vehicle beside you? (And yeah, I commented while the safety aspect was still being discussed...)
If your country enacts a (helmet) law because of the possible medical costs, why not ban motorcycles all together? Think of the medical costs savings! Or do you think you should have the freedom to choose a much more dangerous mode of transportation even though you are more likely to have an accident and sever injury?
@@charleetho I don't think the helmet law is " because of" it is "partly due" to possible associated health costs. Smoking is not illegal but you can't smoke wherever you want. The helmet law is a joke actually because under the law those DOT pisspot helmets that the cruiser folks wear qualify as a helmet as much as my full-face Snell/ECE22.05 lid.
@@markboucher5776 Agreed. I'm very "pro helmet" myself, and also Canadian (BC though) so we have that law in place already and it's totally fine. What I don't like isn't the fact helmets are mandatory, I support that, it's that so many "helmets" are barely better than putting a soup bowl on your head while you ride. Even Snell rating has its issues in my opinion (not that any rating system will ever be truly universal or perfect) but DOT is laughably terrible and getting away from DOT in any official capacity is very much something I'd like to see happen.
Helmet laws are always gonna be controversial. As for me, helmets are an absolute must. I'm not gonna try and tell someone else that they have to use one, but I'd definitely recommend it. As a rider who is already suffered a severe head injury due to an accident in the military, I really appreciate head protection. I was almost killed when a truck in the oncoming lane lost the trailer he was pulling. The trailer hit my bike on the rear swing arm right behind me throwing me into a street sign, ejecting me off the bike head first into the ditch. Other than severe bruising and possibly a cracked collarbone, I walked away without any severe injury. That just gave me even more confidence in my gear. Moreover I find too many benefits from my full face helmet to ever go back. I don't have to worry about getting sandblasted, bugs, rocks or anything else. It makes for a much more enjoyable ride. If someone else wants to go without, I don't have the right to stop them. I just recommend the helmet.
Don't agree that it will "always be controversial". As far as I'm aware, it's really only one country where they are controversial, the rest of the developed world has helmet laws with little to no controversy.
@@marttton I know that the laws exist, but that doesn't mean that they aren't controversial. I've been riding nearly 30 years, and I've personally seen the controversy raised by the helmet laws. Helmets are a must in my personal opinion, but I know lots of people who completely disagree. I've known many who refuse to wear the gear, even with the laws in place. That in itself makes the topic of helmet laws controversial. It shouldn't be, and I wish it wasn't, but unfortunately it is, and I believe it will always be that way simply for the fact that many people don't want to be told they have to do it. That's just my thoughts on it
They'll always be controversial because it gives police the opportunity to hassle people. At the snowmobile trails in Pennsylvania, helmet wearing is a state law. Officers of the law sit at parking lots on the regular and write tickets for the people pulling their snowmobiles off their truck, helmetless. Meanwhile, snowmobiles go tearing by at 80mph, halfway out of control, and they don't have to worry in the slightest about getting a ticket.
I used to mtb a lot more often and trails in marin county CA were often contentiously disputed between bikes, horseback riders and regular pedestrian hikers. Most single track would be designated hiker only while some allowed for hikers and equestrians. The sheer weight of a horse with rider causes so much wear on a trail, even more so than a mountain bike rider applying full brake. It was clear that equestrian riders had more money and could lobby for their interests better than the cyclists and I was left to wonder if this is really just a class issue where mountain bikers were considered too low brow to enjoy what the mountains had to offer. Nevermind all the piles of shit left on trails from horses aggravating anyone who has the misfortune of stepping in it
I've been riding in the UK since 1980 and it never ceases to amaze me that most riders attitude is that they need the latest and most powerful motor cycle they can get, a colleague of mine who had a Tracer 9 GT decided he wanted a smaller bike. After dismissing various bikes for not being fast enough he eventually got a 1290 SuperDuke, his reasoning was he could do 150mph on it and would be what he needed! I myself have a Z900, 650 Versys and a 300 Versys X and I find have just as much fun on the 300 as the other bikes. People don't realise the fun a small bike is.
I totally agree with Zack regarding speakers on motorcycles. It's a public nuisance and rude to broadcast your audio to the public - anywhere. That goes for automobiles and motorcycles and other vehicles. What you listen to in your headset or earphones is your own business. However, I believe music is a dangerous distraction to many riders. Riders need all their senses, including undivided audio attentions, all the time, to ride safe. Ask me how I feel about loud exhaust pipes.... Thanks for another awesome HSLS episode!
Lane splitting: Agree with Spurge on awareness; in Michigan lack of awareness, particularly in Spring, is the biggest hazard. Not being from a lane splitting area, my sense is that it just needs some sanity constraints. Legal at stop signs/lights or with a codified max speed differential. If the expressway, highway is stopped/crawling, someone zipping past traffic at 60+ simply shouldn't have a license.
Ever since riding in LA, I have always split lanes regardless of legality and honestly it blows my mind that people worry more about tickets than getting rear ended at a red light. I’ve been in Phoenix the last 5 years and always split in rush hour and at lights before this years law. Also, most people are just bad at assessing risk; motorcycles are a risk it’s unavoidable so ride safe not legal should always be the priority. I say this as a heart transplant recipient, got sarcoidosis heart failure at the age of 28 and xplant at 37: being alive is always dangerous.
I've been a bike mechanic for several years and it never ceases to amaze me the bikes people choose to start on. A couple of years ago a younger gentleman decided the new Rocket 3 was going to be his. I then saw him get on it for the first time and about kill himself before even getting out of sight. As far as size goes, Alonzo Bodden, a famous comedian, experienced rider, and giant human being, rode a grom for some time....just saying.
Nah i feel too restricted on the bike in a bulky jacket and pants…plus it gets hot and doesnt look as cool. I do always wear full helmet gloves and armored boots though…most common injury is lower leg
@@michaelerdberg802 A jacket doesn't have to be bulky, measure yourself and soze accordingly. Also not all gear is hot (Rev'It Tornado 3 for example), I live in Florida and wouldn't be able to wear gear in the summer if it came with risk of heat stroke. As for looking cool, nothing looks stupider (imo) than a t-shirt and shorts going down the highway with the t-shirt riding up your back. It just says you haven't pushed your bike to the limits, implying you haven't went to your limits to try and improve yourself.
I absolutely agree with helmets being mandatory. I was involved in a crash (my fault) where I was catapulted over a car, landing on my back and sliding. Because I was fully geared I suffered no back injuries thanks to the back armour and no head injuries when my head hit the ground. If I had not worn my full gear the results would have been very difficult.
I think something that would help grow motorcycling is if the motorcycle manufacturers created 18-24 month leasing programs for beginner appropriate bikes. That would lower the cost of entry and eliminate the fear someone has of outgrowing a bike and taking a huge loss trying to sell it.
Sure if the payments were like $50/month, but in reality it would be like financing a loss of 30%, which would likely look like 2-3k easily, which is what you'd take it you were selling it privately.
Regarding lane splitting. That I have heard, for one that there is a difference between traffic filtering and lane splitting. Depends on the traffic speed overall. But one of the cons arguments based on the people's perception is that some car drivers would get angry because "why are you skipping traffic while the rest of us are waiting here stuck", which personally I think is getting pissed off at someone for going into a grocery store after you and leaving sooner because they don't have as much shopping to do LOL
It's even worse than that, because filtering means that motorcycles aren't adding to traffic unless you forbid it. People are so mad about the idea of someone getting ahead that they'll make their own situation worse to hold you back.
Enjoyed the conversation. It’s a treat to listen to two smart, articulate guys talk about motorcycling, who are clearly enthusiasts. Zach when can we expect a new issue of Daily Rider?
pretty much what happen in Australia. lane splitting is illegal(30Km/h+)however lane filtering is legal(below 30kmh) if both lane are going in the same directions/ people lane filtering on a single lane is doing so illegally. Lane filter is also illegal with new riders with Learner license. lane filtering was made legal in 2015 or something like that and now its a normal thing to see now in the eyes of motorist.
Motorcycle riders should be allowed to blast the radio as loud as they want, so long as it's the Highside Lowdside podcast. Gotta spread the good word. Otherwise, wear your ear buds.
We have tiered motorcycle licences in Utah. My wife and daughter took the MSF course this fall and got 649CC and lower license. We also have legal lane filtering which is great!
Viewpoint from a long term rider from the UK who spent 11 years in NJ USA riding: 1. Helmet law: No. Wear a helmet: Definitely. 2. Speakers - In 1981 I fastened a cassette player to a tankbag on my CB100; bat of hell never sounded so good :) Now that we have great in-helmet systems I don't see the point in on bike speakers. 3. Tiered licence - yup! Definitely the best way to learn, as a point of entry and to enjoy themselves more. 4. Lane splitting - absolutely. It's all about driver education. I miss popping down to the Revzilla shop in Philly. Glad to be able to keep up with the World of Revzilla on youtube.
I'm new to the motorcycle world. Just starting the process so I need to learn and do everything. That means I had to google lane splitting. I learned there is a difference between lane splitting and lane filtering. I can definitely see where filtering should be legal, but splitting could be dangerous. I may learn differently as I start riding.
Ilive in Thailand and there is compulsory helmet laws, but they are almost never enforced. Frequently i get passed at 80+mph by a kid on a hot scooter without a helmut in shorts and flip flops. The statistics here are about 30 people per day dying on the road. Helmets most definately reduce head injuries, but enforcement is a challenge.
I agree with having a tiered system here, but not to the extreme Europe has, I think a 50hp limit for first two years would be good. It would also cause an increase in smaller bike sales and the used market for those as well making them cheaper and more available for newer riders. A 50 or 125cc may not be appropriate in the west coast of the us where the distances are huge and require freeway travel for relatively short trips. 250-500cc bikes would work well though without getting too dumb.
We have tiered licensing in Australia. It is done by a power to weight ratio, restricted riders can ride up to a Mt07 655cc, restricted riders cannot lane filter or have a pillion, I think it is the perfect balance. restricted rider get enough power for the freeway and there is only the 2 tiers. I believe it is the perfect balance.
Helmets have saved me from serious injury...both low speed falls. When I checked damage on helmet, I was glad that I had it on. No experience with air plugs..but have to def start with those.
To The Spurg's point about drivers being more aware of motorcyclists when lane-splitting is accepted practice; I totally agree, you can easily miss things that you don't expect to see. If drivers are expecting riders to be lane-splitting, then they're more likely to notice them.
Then again some riders assume people are looking out for them and get surprised by cars changing lanes all the time. Not all roads are straight enough to see a rider in traffic and some riders abuse the privilege. At the end of the day it up to the rider to be extra cautious.
Great issues discussed, just my 2cents about tiered licensing; Most of modern bikes sold in Europe can be detuned , and it gets marked in registration. When you get to next tier, the dealer will remove the restriction and updates the registration. About the bike size, I have done cross country trip (3weeks) on BMW 310gs with out trouble, its little lighter when you need to pick it up 😂
Another great poadcast. 1h 57m 09s of headphone time w/out wife & daughter's TSwift playing!!! All of the topics disscused are of interest to motorcyclists. The take away is "middle ground". The question to be asked, for each topic, is how does it effect others around you. For example, lane splitting mostly benefits road users around you (less congestion). Loud stereos do not (applies to cars & motorcycles).
and on the topic of riser size and HP... I am 280 pounds fully geared up and own motorcycles from 50hp to 150hp. 50hp is very entertaining on my supermoto wheeled dual sport. Spurg is absolutely right on this one.
ive been a trail rider in the northwest for 30+ years and have seen all kinds of trails and areas we used to ride closed off to us especially after the mountain biking thing became more popular , i recall multiple work parties to build bridges over water crossings to lessen environmental impact and work parties cleaning up staging areas and trails in general campgrounds with always and only motorcyclists showing up , now the trails we built bridges over water crossings on to keep them open to us and closed to us anyway , here in wa anyway we buy passes we pay extra taxes on every part and every quart of oil every tire that goes toward this and yet .......
Hey guys!!! Great video. I’m a PA residence and got my license 3 years ago. The law is that everyone under 21 has to have a helmet. I’d over21 you need 2 years of riding experience or have completed the safety training course.
Such a great discussion! Love both of your opinions and surprisingly if ever the least measures you guys suggested applies to low it’s still a huge step forward vs current status!
I'm not in favor of telling other people what they can do, but I'm also not in favor of other people having to pay for someone's bad choices. So I would say if we didn't have helmet laws or seatbelt laws, then any insurance company that wanted to should be able to deny medical coverage if someone is in an accident and wasn't wearing their helmet on a bike or their seatbelt in a car 🤷♂ As far as being able to hear things going on around you, at speed you can't hear anything anyway... actually a streamlined helmet makes it easier to hear. If you're in a car do you drive everywhere with the windows down so you can hear better? Even if you often drive with the windows down it's to enjoy the weather, not to hear better. And a sealed up car with the windows up is every bit as sound-muffling as ear plugs.
Regarding smaller displacement starter bikes, I firmly believe a dual-sport is the best thing to start on. This is especially true for a big tall noobie, as dual sports often have ample legroom and pretty tall seats. DR650, KLR, WR, etc would fit the bill here. Plus, they're fun as hell and open up so many more riding possibilities!
An unmentioned benefit to tiered licenses is that sometimes it helps create bikes that never otherwise would have existed, bikes like the old inline four CBR 250RR. Although those were more from a displacement limit than a horsepower limit.
Utah has a tiered license system. It depends on the engine size you test with: If you test on a bike 90cc you're restricted to 90cc or less, if 249cc you're restricted to
In France you also have to wear CE rated gloves. But it is to be expected, with our social security that pays everything, government do not want you to lose your spine or your fingers.
@@antoinefestuot4947 Probably a bigger factor than many people in the US might think, even -- that because of the medical coverage in European countries and the EU's generally greater consumer protection habits than the US equivalents, "wear better gear" is putting a bit of the financial burden back onto the public but saving the government a lot of money in medical bills. Meanwhile in the US the hospitals are fleecing the insurance companies who are fleecing the end user, and the government just kinda stands by and lets it happen.
@@TehFrenchy29 it is exactly that. In France since the government is paying for your medical bills, they want you to protect your head, and your hands. Because hands are easy to break, and can disable you pretty quickly.
As a man that took a spill on a low speed test ride after sync'ing carbs on a new-to-me bike almost whacking my naked head on a curb...I decided test rides were the WORST timeto go helmetless. Turned out the PO have not installed the caliper on front correctly and during my little ride one pad fell out. Not something I expected for sure. At the very least I want lane filtering to become legal everywhere in the US as well as rules around running the red lights that do not detect us. I have one of those lights on my ride into work at 5:30 AM and running it more often that not just seems wrong.
I support helmet laws because they generally suppress insurance rates. And I think everyone owes society a certain amount of effort to minimize risk of prolonged highway shutdowns. Moreover, I think the U.S. should adopt the ECE standard. The EU already did the hard work, let's just use it.
Let's start the argument, if you really want to enjoy music, get a set of in ear monitors "high quality headset " with a jack, plug it in your cardo and enjoy the best music experience along with noise canceling you'll ever experience
I like the idea of tiered licensing, but it really needs to applied carefully. I agree with Spurgeon on the beginner aspect. It's not about age, it's about experience or lack there of to be concise. Horsepower is important, but it's not the only factor. I'm a Harley owner, and over and over again I hear that the Sportster is a great beginner bike. I completely disagree. One the Sportster is very heavy, but moreover it's got more torque than what a beginner rider should have. Is it fast? No. But it's easily got enough torque to get away from you. Horsepower, Torque, Weight, and Height are all factors that should be taken into account. Weight and Height not so much, but Horsepower and Torque both really need to be considered when it comes to first time riding. That would really need to be considered in the tiered licensing program if it were to be implemented.
If you do any hiking, you can understand how destructive horse back riding is. They destroy trails. Thank goodness there are trails forbidden to horses back riding. I've noticed that while wearing a full face helmet, it's like putting a bell over your head. It is so much louder. Especially with loud exhausts. I started wearing a helmet a long time ago. I was riding back from a motorcycle event at night with my lady friend on my 2001 Deuce with ape hangers. I had the wind knocked out of me by a bird hitting me in the ribs. I thought that if that bird had hit me in the head I would have gotten knocked out and killed myself and the woman with me. A friend of mine banged his head on the road and that full face helmed saved his melon from busting all over the road. I guess I ought to wait to post my replies until the show is over so I don't have to re-edit all the time. I just traded in my Street Glide for a Heritage Classic. I would scare myself by taking my eyes off the road while searching for a radio station or GPS. I realized that I had taken my eyes off the road for over hundreds of feet. The teared licensing has deterred a lot of riders in other counties. Lane splitting is also environmentally friendlier.
What a great way to start my Friday. Could we also start every episode with a 10 second clip of an RSV4 with a full exhaust? We all need some V4 goodness to start the day.
For tiered licensing, I'm all for it. But for the cost factor the con isn't so much the bike itself, but for the cost of the license itself. My Belgian wife was always interested but didn't get a license until moving to the US because it can cost THOUSANDS for a full license in Belgium plus the endless hours of riding with an instructor that may or may not have an agenda for how many licenses should be issued. As long as the roadblock isn't made too big, it can absolutely work and create better riders.
In regards to listening to music while riding, I use earbuds with adjustable anc. If Cardo or Sena would make something similar with wireless external controls and a wireless mic, I believe it would sell well. That way if you have multiple helmets, its just a matter of transferring your wireless mic to the one you prefer for that ride. The controller could live on a handlebar or stem mount.
@@velocity-ninja4428 you should try Earpeace plugs-cut the harmful decibels and you can hear music just fine…I end up turning the sound down. With earbuds I had loud wind noise and even louder music…now I wear hearing aids when I don’t ride. Take care of your hearing-
There are plenty of earbuds that cut noise as much earplugs. Some for as cheap as $10. I use the Shure se215, an entry level musicians in ear monitor. They are designed to block out sound in a stage setting, also have the bonus of not sticking out of your ears at all to not obstruct a helmet.
Note to people who blast music in public areas, whether on a bike or in a car, I guarantee those around you don't think you're cool, they think you're a tool.
43:00 has The Spurg done any audiophile reviews of in-helmet audio systems? Because I would love to read or hear his thoughts on those available in the industry. Also curious if the foam ear tip earphones are a better or worse alternative to helmet comm sets plus foam earplugs.
The A2 in Denmark is the middle size motorcycle license. That class includes Kawasaki EN500 and Yamaha XVS650. Both of these have about 50HP, and can pass the max speed limit anywhere in Europe, except for the unrestricted parts of the autobahn in Germany. I was a bit challenged with the packing ability of the EN500 on my 1500 km camping trip in Sweden, but i was never missing on comfort, although i am about 195cm and 120kg, or motor on that trip. The only argument for needing a bigger bike, would be the ability to better fit my baggage.
One of the issues I have with a helmet law is that if I go down and buy a$12-20,000 moto, I absolutely cannot then ride it home without an additional purchase of a $2-500 helmet; however, that is absolutely not the case with seatbelts in a car. If it is mandated, they should be included with the purchase. But for me, freedom to choose trumps all of that. Helmets should be affordable, recommended, and even be included with a purchase, but ultimately it should be up to the adult whether to wear them or not, similar to bicycles.
I agree with Spurgeon on his 50hp limit on new peeps but I think the government would be closer to eu regs with less hp and cc. That being said I liked the old 250 ninja as a starter bike and it's only like 20 to 30hp. It's not fast but its enough imho.
I loved this. Im 5'11 290 (fat fuck) sold my car and been riding a duke 390 for the last year. I agree that my bike would be faster if I lost weight. But its plenty of power I ride hwy also no problem. The biggest thing is it has gotten me off my ass and out and makes me more active and a step towards a healthier me
Helmet, my body my choice / I wear one. Speakers, keep them in your helmet/ I wear one in most of my helmets. License tier, agree/ I started in my late 20s. Lane splitting, should be your choice to perform/ have an air cooled bike that I would and another bike I would not as it is to big if lanes are narrow. Great podcast, love to hear/see this kind of content that is high in my interest. Great job. I am the unusual person in America, I am 100 percent motorcyclist. Love this life.
Hello just wanted to say I love the podcast and you keep me sane for my 4 am shift! I wanted to ask if you could give some thoughts or comments on the hyperbike genre. I own a 2000 Zx12r a1 and can find little information on this bike and have found few people that even know it exists. The Hayabusa really overshadowed it but I have ridden both and the zx12 is far superior in my opinion! Looking foward to hearing y’all’s opinions on this bike and subject. Keep sharing the great motorcycle content! Have a great day!
The US yearly average of motorcycle deaths is above 5,000. United States has an annual average of 13,175 deaths from poisonings, 10,352 deaths from falls, and 2850 deaths from fire/burns occurring in the home. I think our law makers and enforcement have better things to work on as far as helmet laws. Wear a helmet!
Always enjoy listening to HSLS either when driving or going to the gym. Would really like to know your opinions on supermotos and why no one ( except the orange/blue-yellow/red ) is making them any more. They are good fun on a twisty road, great commuters, cheap to maintain and you can haev fun in small cart track that are cheaper. Yet, no one is making them. And also, only Ducati is offering a big bore sumo ( 950 Hyper ). Where is the 890 smr? Or a wr700 from Yamaha? Aprilia Sxv 660? Is there no place for these motorcycles anymore?
I think supermoto has largely been replaced on the street by things like the Mt09, mt07 class of naked hooligan bikes. You can do everything a supermoto can do except jump it, and they are way faster and better at high speeds
I know a long time Harley rider here in Iowa (no helmet law) who said if Iowa ever had a helmet law he would stop riding altogether... I don't understand this thinking... I am a life long rider (I'm 65) and could never think of living without riding...I've always worn a helmet even though there isn't a law to do so...I feel vulnerable without one... I am not a "Harley guy" and prefer European motorcycles but have owned several Japanese motorcycles... I guess that's the difference...I am a motorcyclists...not a Harley guy.
Jesus how many time, you het hit by stone chip in highway, just that alone I refuse not to wear full face helmets with screen on. Just one bigger stone in the right place and you in graveyard.
that is a very personal individual decision , personally i am A.T.G.A.T.T. but i do not want any govt official making that or any other decision for me , or you nor do i wish to force my decision onto others so
It’s less of a misconception of horsepower on bikes and more of a massive increase in people’s expectations. When I was 16 my first car was 250hp and by 19 it was 400hp and I certainly was aware of the feeling.
Even if you are not a motorcyclist, lanesplitting should be something you wanted. The motorcycle takes up about as much room in the que as a car, for every MC that splits and gets ahead and away, is one less car in front of you when you are at the red light, and therefor a chance of you getting across on green faster, and getting to where you go faster! The important thing is to make people understand, that lanesplitting is for slow moving traffic, going slightly faster than the cars, not for going 120mph down the highway! And as Spurg says - You don't have to do it because it's legal, you should only do things you feel safe about!
Great podcast, I think that protective gear should be mandatory at least Helmet, gloves, ... Here in Slovenia we have mandatory helmet wearing. Also you can go and make 125 cc motorcycle license at 16, then we have A2 category that are all bikes limited to 35kW (can be up to 70kW bike, but you can limit it to 35) for that you can make motorcycle license at 18, and than you can get unlimited motorcycle license at 21 (if you had previously A2 category), or 24 if you haven't ride before.
i agree with all of your reasoning about a graduated license but for the part about Govt would be enforcing it making an already bloated overfunded overreaching far too big and powerful govt that much more powerful bigger and more expensive
100% my reason against most restrictive laws that barely effect others. Most in the government that make laws don't live the lives of those they are restricting and don't look at the adverse effects of their laws.
1) I equate helmet laws to seatbelt laws and support both. 2) Regarding loud tunes, it's no different than cars blasting their tunes. I personally don't care for it, but don't think it should be against the law any more than any law that may be in place for automobiles. 3) I'm in favor of tiered MC endorsements. (Washington State didn't originally have them, then tried them for a while, then got rid of them) 4) With proper guidelines/parameters in place, I support lane filtering, although I'm not sure how often I would personally partake in it.
If you liked Seinfeld, your next watch would be Curb Your Enthusiasm. Napper was right, your back and forth is somehow conducive to napping. I got a quick nap in the middle of the episode.
On the helmets side, to put things into a different perspective - so beyond the immediate impact it can have on the rider’s safety… in case of an fatal accident [1] the public services will have to deal with a different type of challenges, costs etc. and [2] it will be very likely that the others involved in an accident that survived will suffer from PTSD, so tons of mental distress and financial as well, because therapy is not cheap!
I typed this out, then read your similar comment, so I figured consolidation was appropriate. When you operate a motor vehicle of any shape or size on public roads, safety measures aren't just for your protection. If a car driver makes a mistake and kills you because you weren't wearing a helmet, that wasn't their choice and they have to live with your stupidity, or "freedom". There is an obligation we have to each other to coexist in a society.
@@csolivais1979 I shouldn't have to explain the difference between a mechanic falling over at low speed without a helmet and dying vs an ATGATT catastrophe. Dumb argument. Be serious or consult the bikers on plastic trikes about their helmet views.
@@witHonor1 my mistake. I misunderstood what you were saying in your second point. Sorry for my poor reading compression. I thought you saying that if a car driver killed a motorcycle rider that the car driver's therapy would be expensive.
Tiered licences. I'm in Australia. Tiered licences have been standard here for as long as I remember, but the rules have changed over time. I got my motorcycle "learner permit" in the mid 1980's. There was one simple rule back then. A beginner could not ride anything bigger than 250cc and the beginner period lasted multiple years. The hot twostroke 250's of the 1980's and early 1990's made the Australian authorities rethink the rules and in the mid 1990's a new set of rules for beginner motorcycles were put in place. Engine size went up to 660cc AND there is a power to weight limit as well, so a modern supersport 600 does NOT qualify as a learner motorcycle because of it's power/weight, even if it is less than 660cc. It takes a little over 4 years from starting as a beginner rider to receiving a full unrestricted motorcycle licence.
Guys really really great podcast. I grew up in Europe in the 90s with the tier license so all I could ride in my teens was a 50cc, I still got into a couple of accidents but nothing major. Forward to 2021 and I have been living in America for almost 20 years, also 20 years without riding a bike finally got the green light from wife and son to go back and pursue that passion and guess what? got myself into a CB300R and I am loving every single ride in that wonderful bike. Am I tired of it? yes i am and I am planning on next year to either get an MT07 or a Scrambler as the next natural progression. No need for a 1200cc with almost 200hp to just cruise around town to have fun. Also if you really enjoying riding a bike for what it is you most likely won’t be doing much of your riding on the highway. As for the Helmets I see it the same as the seat belt I wish they were mandatory but if people choose not to use it as long as they don’t put others in danger then they should be able to choose whatever, as a parent there must be a law for minors to have a seat belt or a helmet just because we live in 2022 and there’s a lot of questionable parenting out there.
I'm 62 I wear all my gear all the time. I see people in shorts sneakers and a wife beater shirt. I just shake my head there adults they know this is a dangerous hobby. But you should have a choice.
Adding another comment. I'm 56 and getting my license this year. I think that your idea on tiering should be based on logged miles not calendar days. If I ride one weekend day a week for eight months a year, it is not the same level of experience as commuting every day for those same eight months. My argument would be two years may not only be too much time, but could also be not be enough time.
I started on mortorcycle because it was easier to go through traffic (lane splitting is legal in my country). From the scooter I realized that two wheels are fun, got an adventure and went all the way to a lot of off roading and being a beeg mortorcycle enthusiasts. And I would never get to it if we hadn't had lane splitting.
As a motorcyclist who lives in the United States I am totally in favor for tiered licensing for both cars and bikes. Imo it will lower insurance costs and in general incubate more cautious and responsible driver/rider habits. This is the *quote* LAND OF FREEDOM *unquote* and I can see how some would be against it but it just seems to make too much sense to make one learn in a slower car/bike so that they can create more positive driving/riding habits. However displacement is an *almost* irrelevant factor in the States™️, power to weight is a much more relevant number to consider. An 1800cc V twin dresser that weighs 900lbs will be much easier to handle than an 850cc naked sportbike
It's a steep climb in Wisconsin. Harley guys have not been known to where helmets here. At my work there is a company rule that you can't ride a bike on the property without a helmet and I have a co-worker that walks his bike in and out of the lot rather than wear a helmet. I myself am a all the gear all the time kind of guy, but a national helmet law could loose a lot of riders in Wisconsin. Just my two cents. Great job guys!
I like having speakers on my bike because I only have one helmet that is equipped with a Cardo and earbuds, but I have several helmets. I tend to use the communicator equipped helmet only for longer distance riding and use other helmets for local rides and having the speakers is nice as I can listen to music no matter which helmet I am wearing that day.
I ride with filtered ear plugs and a Sena 10C in one helmet/ Cardo Pactalk Bold in another with the air speakers in the helmets. Works like a charm for both music, gps directions and communication with my friends at about any speed.
Cardo is selling a mounting kit for the bold. It costs around 70€ before discount. I’ll use BF to buy one as I have the same ‘problem’: more helmets than unit 😂
21:00 20 year old from Western PA, I was told that I have to wear my helmet even after graduating my MSF class. (I wear it all the time anyways; this was from October this year) Clarification, yeah it's 21+ your choice, I believe
I like the idea of tiered licensing as well, if we license at all. From 16 to 18 you should be limited to 150cc and under. From 18 to 21 you can go up to 300cc. From 21 onward you have to test into certain displacement brackets. Re lane-splitting, you did not distinguish between lane-splitting and filtering (moving to the front thru stopped traffic at intersections). I think you'll find significantly more support among riders for filtering.
limiting by CC is just a weird way of doing it. A 650 Ptwin makes similar power to a 2000cc harley. Just do it like the euros then, 16 y/o you can have 15hp and 125cc, 18 you can have 45hp (or restricted down from 95), 24 you can get unrestricted, or if you had restricted for 2 years you can get it then. Works perfectly fine.
in Israel we have a tiered system and if you do not have any license you start at the bottom 50-125 CC then after a year you can move up to the second license 250CC-500 and then after another year or so unlimited if you have a car license then you can start in the middle at 250-500 then after a year you can do a few lessons then test to get your unlimited license which I think would work great in the US as well.
Drudging up an old video...as an old rider, I would have no issues with a tiered system for new riders. I think that it's smart. Are there hardware concerns, yes. I have an 07 Ninja 250 that I ride all over. I also KNOW my limitations with that bike. I did a sprocket change to it (1 up in front, 1 down rear) to lower it's rpm on the highway slightly so that I'm not winding it way up at 55 (6500rpm vs 8000) I regularly ride it on the highway, HOWEVER, I avoid areas where the average speed is 70+ like the DC beltway. I take backroads when possible as they are less congested and, in my opinion, safer. I have an 09 Ninja 650r for when I HAVE to go via the beltway or high speed areas. I believe that the tiered system will also keep the more dishonest dealerships straight. Years ago, I was in a dealership picking up something when I overheard a salesman doing his damnedest to get a young rider who just got his license to buy a Busa. The kid was looking at a 600 and the salesman was pushing hard to get him on a busa. When the slaesman walked away to get something, I stepped in and told the kid that the Busa was way too much for him and would likely kill him. A tiered license would prevent this. I am not one for government overwatch or overreach, but sometimes we need to be guided when our eyes, and desires are stronger than our sense.
Only time I ride without a helmet is around my small beach town on the scoot but I refuse to throw a leg over the xr650 without one, such a long way to the ground
Get more HSLS and moto content from Common Tread! rvz.la/3V2NXSw
Helmets have saved me from traumatic brain injury at least three times when I was a kid. Once skating, once snowboarding, and once on a bike. The idea of doing something dangerous like riding a motorcycle without a helmet blows my mind. The sheer cost of TBIs and deaths caused by not wearing helmets makes it seem like having a law against it is worth it or at least make insurance rates sky high for people who don't wear helmets.
I would gladly submit to a federal helmet law if every state would legalize California style lane splitting and filtering.
I'm against helmet laws, even though I always wear mine. I'd gladly be pro helmet law just for filtering! 😅
Cali rider here. So glad we have toll lanes now that are free for motorcycles. No more splitting for me, it always made me exhausted by the time I got home.
@@jft7174 I'm certainly not as hopeful for splitting as I am filtering.
I’m against over-regulation; but I’d take that deal in a heartbeat.
I live in Illinois which does not require helmets and it's unlikely we will ever have lane splitting or filtering legalized because of the lack of helmet law. I do wear a helmet and I can't help but notice the correlation of Harley riders and no helmet in Illinois. I would love to be able to filter to the head of the line at intersections rather than sitting in line hoping all the car and truck drivers coming up behind me are paying attention but I doubt it will ever happen. Requiring a helmet the first couple years I think is a good compromise but any helmet law in Illinois will be looked at as a negative change. BTW, I agree with Spurgeon that 400 to 500 CC's is more than enough for anyone starting out. I have been riding a KTM Duke 390 going on three years now and I'm way faster than all but the fastest cars on the road. I would avoid a 250ish size bike or scooter for anything more than maybe a small town or university environment where you need the ability to keep up with traffic. The Duke has been perfect in the time I have owned it and 70+ mpg for my commute to work has made me smile at the gas pump many times over!
Where I live, in Canada (and in most other countries around the world), helmets are mandated at all times on motorcycles, on or off road. The interesting part of the "freedom" controversy surrounding them comes down to medical expense. The REAL reason most countries require them is because most of us have some degree of socialized health care (which the USA does not), and wearing of helmets is shown to decrease the likelihood of severe traumatic brain injury, which is very, VERY expensive to treat medically, causing undue pressure on our medical system budgets for the number of people represented. If you want to truly make it a "freedom" issue in America, let the insurance companies decide whether they wish to REFUSE to cover any rider NOT wearing an approved helmet, and to price coverage for non-helmeted riders accordingly. If you're ready to pay a couple of hundred a month for your insurance, good for you... be my guest. I'm not. Oh, and just for the record, if you can FIND an approved helmet out there today that actually restricts the peripheral vision to any degree worth even talking about, please let me know so that I can avoid buying it. Most people's peripheral vision falls inside about 60 degrees. A FEW of us have peripheral that gets up past 80 degrees, but that's the exception rather than the rule. Too many riders seriously overestimate their peripheral vision capabilities... which, I should note, tend to deteriorate with age.
Motorcycle sound systems: go for it... but if you contravene local noise bylaws and get a nice expensive ticket, that's on you. If someone vandalizes your bike in a parking lot because they're sick of listening to your shit, so is that. Don't be a dick. And let's be honest... speakers IN your helmet offer much better sound quality on the bike. (Oh... and I can't STAND Taylor Swift!)
Tiered licensing: We have it in Ontario. We actually have similarly tiered licensing for regular car drivers. I approve of it for new, young drivers and riders. I feel that it is a good training aid for youngsters, who still tend to be speed demons and have not yet realized that they are NOT immortal. However, as an older rider returning to riding motorcycles after several decades with an eye specifically toward doing some touring, I hate it, because it is NOT age-specific here. ONE INTERESTING THOUGHT: Maybe we ought to use DOWN-tiering of licenses as a penalty! When some jackass gets stopped for doing 40 or 50 over, in addition to the fine, knock them back down to a restricted license.
The second big con for lane-splitting is OPTICS. Car drivers take a LONG time to get used to the concept, especially in today's road-rage-heavy traffic environment. They don't LIKE that motorcycles are "unfairly" cutting through traffic. This is going to increase road rage incidents and negative perceptions of motorcyclists anywhere lane-splitting is newly introduced UNLESS there is a concentrated educational advertising campaign by the jurisdiction accompanying the change in law... and good luck getting any government to spring for that. Big question: Doe you REALLY want to piss off the road-raging cager in the two ton vehicle beside you? (And yeah, I commented while the safety aspect was still being discussed...)
I am from Ontario as well and your comment was the comment that I was going to write. So thank you!
If your country enacts a (helmet) law because of the possible medical costs, why not ban motorcycles all together? Think of the medical costs savings! Or do you think you should have the freedom to choose a much more dangerous mode of transportation even though you are more likely to have an accident and sever injury?
@@charleetho I don't think the helmet law is " because of" it is "partly due" to possible associated health costs. Smoking is not illegal but you can't smoke wherever you want.
The helmet law is a joke actually because under the law those DOT pisspot helmets that the cruiser folks wear qualify as a helmet as much as my full-face Snell/ECE22.05 lid.
@@charleetho Please don't give the bastards any more ideas... they're probably close enough already to going in that direction.
@@markboucher5776 Agreed. I'm very "pro helmet" myself, and also Canadian (BC though) so we have that law in place already and it's totally fine. What I don't like isn't the fact helmets are mandatory, I support that, it's that so many "helmets" are barely better than putting a soup bowl on your head while you ride. Even Snell rating has its issues in my opinion (not that any rating system will ever be truly universal or perfect) but DOT is laughably terrible and getting away from DOT in any official capacity is very much something I'd like to see happen.
Helmet laws are always gonna be controversial. As for me, helmets are an absolute must. I'm not gonna try and tell someone else that they have to use one, but I'd definitely recommend it. As a rider who is already suffered a severe head injury due to an accident in the military, I really appreciate head protection. I was almost killed when a truck in the oncoming lane lost the trailer he was pulling. The trailer hit my bike on the rear swing arm right behind me throwing me into a street sign, ejecting me off the bike head first into the ditch. Other than severe bruising and possibly a cracked collarbone, I walked away without any severe injury. That just gave me even more confidence in my gear. Moreover I find too many benefits from my full face helmet to ever go back. I don't have to worry about getting sandblasted, bugs, rocks or anything else. It makes for a much more enjoyable ride. If someone else wants to go without, I don't have the right to stop them. I just recommend the helmet.
Don't agree that it will "always be controversial". As far as I'm aware, it's really only one country where they are controversial, the rest of the developed world has helmet laws with little to no controversy.
@@marttton I know that the laws exist, but that doesn't mean that they aren't controversial. I've been riding nearly 30 years, and I've personally seen the controversy raised by the helmet laws. Helmets are a must in my personal opinion, but I know lots of people who completely disagree. I've known many who refuse to wear the gear, even with the laws in place. That in itself makes the topic of helmet laws controversial. It shouldn't be, and I wish it wasn't, but unfortunately it is, and I believe it will always be that way simply for the fact that many people don't want to be told they have to do it. That's just my thoughts on it
They'll always be controversial because it gives police the opportunity to hassle people. At the snowmobile trails in Pennsylvania, helmet wearing is a state law. Officers of the law sit at parking lots on the regular and write tickets for the people pulling their snowmobiles off their truck, helmetless. Meanwhile, snowmobiles go tearing by at 80mph, halfway out of control, and they don't have to worry in the slightest about getting a ticket.
I used to mtb a lot more often and trails in marin county CA were often contentiously disputed between bikes, horseback riders and regular pedestrian hikers. Most single track would be designated hiker only while some allowed for hikers and equestrians. The sheer weight of a horse with rider causes so much wear on a trail, even more so than a mountain bike rider applying full brake. It was clear that equestrian riders had more money and could lobby for their interests better than the cyclists and I was left to wonder if this is really just a class issue where mountain bikers were considered too low brow to enjoy what the mountains had to offer. Nevermind all the piles of shit left on trails from horses aggravating anyone who has the misfortune of stepping in it
I've been riding in the UK since 1980 and it never ceases to amaze me that most riders attitude is that they need the latest and most powerful motor cycle they can get, a colleague of mine who had a Tracer 9 GT decided he wanted a smaller bike. After dismissing various bikes for not being fast enough he eventually got a 1290 SuperDuke, his reasoning was he could do 150mph on it and would be what he needed! I myself have a Z900, 650 Versys and a 300 Versys X and I find have just as much fun on the 300 as the other bikes. People don't realise the fun a small bike is.
I totally agree with Zack regarding speakers on motorcycles. It's a public nuisance and rude to broadcast your audio to the public - anywhere. That goes for automobiles and motorcycles and other vehicles. What you listen to in your headset or earphones is your own business. However, I believe music is a dangerous distraction to many riders. Riders need all their senses, including undivided audio attentions, all the time, to ride safe. Ask me how I feel about loud exhaust pipes.... Thanks for another awesome HSLS episode!
Lane splitting: Agree with Spurge on awareness; in Michigan lack of awareness, particularly in Spring, is the biggest hazard. Not being from a lane splitting area, my sense is that it just needs some sanity constraints. Legal at stop signs/lights or with a codified max speed differential. If the expressway, highway is stopped/crawling, someone zipping past traffic at 60+ simply shouldn't have a license.
Ever since riding in LA, I have always split lanes regardless of legality and honestly it blows my mind that people worry more about tickets than getting rear ended at a red light. I’ve been in Phoenix the last 5 years and always split in rush hour and at lights before this years law. Also, most people are just bad at assessing risk; motorcycles are a risk it’s unavoidable so ride safe not legal should always be the priority. I say this as a heart transplant recipient, got sarcoidosis heart failure at the age of 28 and xplant at 37: being alive is always dangerous.
I've been a bike mechanic for several years and it never ceases to amaze me the bikes people choose to start on. A couple of years ago a younger gentleman decided the new Rocket 3 was going to be his. I then saw him get on it for the first time and about kill himself before even getting out of sight. As far as size goes, Alonzo Bodden, a famous comedian, experienced rider, and giant human being, rode a grom for some time....just saying.
I just commented on exactly this! Guys learning to ride on a R1250GSA or a litre sportbike is beyond stupid
ATTGAT in todays traffic environment is what ultimately makes sense.
Nah i feel too restricted on the bike in a bulky jacket and pants…plus it gets hot and doesnt look as cool. I do always wear full helmet gloves and armored boots though…most common injury is lower leg
@@michaelerdberg802 A jacket doesn't have to be bulky, measure yourself and soze accordingly.
Also not all gear is hot (Rev'It Tornado 3 for example), I live in Florida and wouldn't be able to wear gear in the summer if it came with risk of heat stroke.
As for looking cool, nothing looks stupider (imo) than a t-shirt and shorts going down the highway with the t-shirt riding up your back. It just says you haven't pushed your bike to the limits, implying you haven't went to your limits to try and improve yourself.
Medical Professional for 38 years, helmets save lives, I wear mine. No excuse today we have every style and manner of helmets.
I absolutely agree with helmets being mandatory. I was involved in a crash (my fault) where I was catapulted over a car, landing on my back and sliding. Because I was fully geared I suffered no back injuries thanks to the back armour and no head injuries when my head hit the ground. If I had not worn my full gear the results would have been very difficult.
I think something that would help grow motorcycling is if the motorcycle manufacturers created 18-24 month leasing programs for beginner appropriate bikes. That would lower the cost of entry and eliminate the fear someone has of outgrowing a bike and taking a huge loss trying to sell it.
That sounds like a good idea
Sure if the payments were like $50/month, but in reality it would be like financing a loss of 30%, which would likely look like 2-3k easily, which is what you'd take it you were selling it privately.
Everyone needs to find themselves a lover who commits to them the way Spurg commits to the Motul ad-reads
Regarding lane splitting. That I have heard, for one that there is a difference between traffic filtering and lane splitting. Depends on the traffic speed overall. But one of the cons arguments based on the people's perception is that some car drivers would get angry because "why are you skipping traffic while the rest of us are waiting here stuck", which personally I think is getting pissed off at someone for going into a grocery store after you and leaving sooner because they don't have as much shopping to do LOL
It's even worse than that, because filtering means that motorcycles aren't adding to traffic unless you forbid it. People are so mad about the idea of someone getting ahead that they'll make their own situation worse to hold you back.
We can all thank air cooled Harley-Davidson motorcycles for lane splitting. LOL
Anyone know how Lemmy and Joe are getting on? What they are up to these days? Miss them on this.
Enjoyed the conversation. It’s a treat to listen to two smart, articulate guys talk about motorcycling, who are clearly enthusiasts. Zach when can we expect a new issue of Daily Rider?
pretty much what happen in Australia. lane splitting is illegal(30Km/h+)however lane filtering is legal(below 30kmh) if both lane are going in the same directions/ people lane filtering on a single lane is doing so illegally. Lane filter is also illegal with new riders with Learner license.
lane filtering was made legal in 2015 or something like that and now its a normal thing to see now in the eyes of motorist.
Motorcycle riders should be allowed to blast the radio as loud as they want, so long as it's the Highside Lowdside podcast. Gotta spread the good word. Otherwise, wear your ear buds.
We have tiered motorcycle licences in Utah. My wife and daughter took the MSF course this fall and got 649CC and lower license. We also have legal lane filtering which is great!
Viewpoint from a long term rider from the UK who spent 11 years in NJ USA riding:
1. Helmet law: No. Wear a helmet: Definitely.
2. Speakers - In 1981 I fastened a cassette player to a tankbag on my CB100; bat of hell never sounded so good :) Now that we have great in-helmet systems I don't see the point in on bike speakers.
3. Tiered licence - yup! Definitely the best way to learn, as a point of entry and to enjoy themselves more.
4. Lane splitting - absolutely. It's all about driver education.
I miss popping down to the Revzilla shop in Philly. Glad to be able to keep up with the World of Revzilla on youtube.
I'm new to the motorcycle world. Just starting the process so I need to learn and do everything. That means I had to google lane splitting. I learned there is a difference between lane splitting and lane filtering. I can definitely see where filtering should be legal, but splitting could be dangerous. I may learn differently as I start riding.
Ilive in Thailand and there is compulsory helmet laws, but they are almost never enforced. Frequently i get passed at 80+mph by a kid on a hot scooter without a helmut in shorts and flip flops. The statistics here are about 30 people per day dying on the road. Helmets most definately reduce head injuries, but enforcement is a challenge.
I agree with having a tiered system here, but not to the extreme Europe has, I think a 50hp limit for first two years would be good. It would also cause an increase in smaller bike sales and the used market for those as well making them cheaper and more available for newer riders. A 50 or 125cc may not be appropriate in the west coast of the us where the distances are huge and require freeway travel for relatively short trips. 250-500cc bikes would work well though without getting too dumb.
not used to seeing Spurgeon on the right side and Zach on the left. feels like smth is wrong :D great stuff as usual!
"I'd rather die than be a vegetable" is ridiculous, because they're simultaneously saying "I'd rather be a vegetable than concussed"
Speakers on motorcycles are ridiculously dumb in my opinion.
Helmet laws are irrelevant. The laws of physics will teach you a lesson if you chose to ignore them.
We have tiered licensing in Australia. It is done by a power to weight ratio, restricted riders can ride up to a Mt07 655cc, restricted riders cannot lane filter or have a pillion, I think it is the perfect balance. restricted rider get enough power for the freeway and there is only the 2 tiers. I believe it is the perfect balance.
Helmets have saved me from serious injury...both low speed falls. When I checked damage on helmet, I was glad that I had it on. No experience with air plugs..but have to def start with those.
It's official, Spurgeon is going to name his first born Bonnie or Thruxton.
To The Spurg's point about drivers being more aware of motorcyclists when lane-splitting is accepted practice; I totally agree, you can easily miss things that you don't expect to see. If drivers are expecting riders to be lane-splitting, then they're more likely to notice them.
Then again some riders assume people are looking out for them and get surprised by cars changing lanes all the time. Not all roads are straight enough to see a rider in traffic and some riders abuse the privilege. At the end of the day it up to the rider to be extra cautious.
Great issues discussed, just my 2cents about tiered licensing; Most of modern bikes sold in Europe can be detuned , and it gets marked in registration. When you get to next tier, the dealer will remove the restriction and updates the registration.
About the bike size, I have done cross country trip (3weeks) on BMW 310gs with out trouble, its little lighter when you need to pick it up 😂
Publicity do work. After 6 seasons of HSLS I Finally put Motul Oil in my Vulcan 900 Custom. it is more expensive here in Mexico. But it works so good.
Another great poadcast. 1h 57m 09s of headphone time w/out wife & daughter's TSwift playing!!!
All of the topics disscused are of interest to motorcyclists. The take away is "middle ground". The question to be asked, for each topic, is how does it effect others around you. For example, lane splitting mostly benefits road users around you (less congestion). Loud stereos do not (applies to cars & motorcycles).
and on the topic of riser size and HP... I am 280 pounds fully geared up and own motorcycles from 50hp to 150hp. 50hp is very entertaining on my supermoto wheeled dual sport. Spurg is absolutely right on this one.
ive been a trail rider in the northwest for 30+ years and have seen all kinds of trails and areas we used to ride closed off to us especially after the mountain biking thing became more popular , i recall multiple work parties to build bridges over water crossings to lessen environmental impact and work parties cleaning up staging areas and trails in general campgrounds with always and only motorcyclists showing up , now the trails we built bridges over water crossings on to keep them open to us and closed to us anyway , here in wa anyway we buy passes we pay extra taxes on every part and every quart of oil every tire that goes toward this and yet .......
Gentlemen, superb job! Thoroughly entertained and learned lots as a soon to be rider with a motorcycle license for years. 😊
Hey guys!!! Great video. I’m a PA residence and got my license 3 years ago. The law is that everyone under 21 has to have a helmet. I’d over21 you need 2 years of riding experience or have completed the safety training course.
Such a great discussion! Love both of your opinions and surprisingly if ever the least measures you guys suggested applies to low it’s still a huge step forward vs current status!
I'm not in favor of telling other people what they can do, but I'm also not in favor of other people having to pay for someone's bad choices. So I would say if we didn't have helmet laws or seatbelt laws, then any insurance company that wanted to should be able to deny medical coverage if someone is in an accident and wasn't wearing their helmet on a bike or their seatbelt in a car 🤷♂
As far as being able to hear things going on around you, at speed you can't hear anything anyway... actually a streamlined helmet makes it easier to hear. If you're in a car do you drive everywhere with the windows down so you can hear better? Even if you often drive with the windows down it's to enjoy the weather, not to hear better. And a sealed up car with the windows up is every bit as sound-muffling as ear plugs.
Video begins at 12:32
Regarding smaller displacement starter bikes, I firmly believe a dual-sport is the best thing to start on. This is especially true for a big tall noobie, as dual sports often have ample legroom and pretty tall seats. DR650, KLR, WR, etc would fit the bill here. Plus, they're fun as hell and open up so many more riding possibilities!
An unmentioned benefit to tiered licenses is that sometimes it helps create bikes that never otherwise would have existed, bikes like the old inline four CBR 250RR. Although those were more from a displacement limit than a horsepower limit.
Utah has a tiered license system.
It depends on the engine size you test with:
If you test on a bike 90cc you're restricted to 90cc or less, if 249cc you're restricted to
It feels crazy! In EU both helmets and seatbelts are mandatory everywhere! (Still some people go without though...)
In France you also have to wear CE rated gloves. But it is to be expected, with our social security that pays everything, government do not want you to lose your spine or your fingers.
@@antoinefestuot4947 Probably a bigger factor than many people in the US might think, even -- that because of the medical coverage in European countries and the EU's generally greater consumer protection habits than the US equivalents, "wear better gear" is putting a bit of the financial burden back onto the public but saving the government a lot of money in medical bills. Meanwhile in the US the hospitals are fleecing the insurance companies who are fleecing the end user, and the government just kinda stands by and lets it happen.
@@TehFrenchy29 it is exactly that. In France since the government is paying for your medical bills, they want you to protect your head, and your hands. Because hands are easy to break, and can disable you pretty quickly.
As a man that took a spill on a low speed test ride after sync'ing carbs on a new-to-me bike almost whacking my naked head on a curb...I decided test rides were the WORST timeto go helmetless. Turned out the PO have not installed the caliper on front correctly and during my little ride one pad fell out. Not something I expected for sure.
At the very least I want lane filtering to become legal everywhere in the US as well as rules around running the red lights that do not detect us. I have one of those lights on my ride into work at 5:30 AM and running it more often that not just seems wrong.
I support helmet laws because they generally suppress insurance rates. And I think everyone owes society a certain amount of effort to minimize risk of prolonged highway shutdowns.
Moreover, I think the U.S. should adopt the ECE standard. The EU already did the hard work, let's just use it.
Let's start the argument, if you really want to enjoy music, get a set of in ear monitors "high quality headset " with a jack, plug it in your cardo and enjoy the best music experience along with noise canceling you'll ever experience
I learned on a 54 HP Bonneville and it had more than enough power. Agree, most people don't realize what 50+ HP is on a 400lb motorcycle.
Id love to see a simple tiered license system. Like 600ccs or less on your first year or so of riding.
Would probably get harley to make a naked too.
I like the idea of tiered licensing, but it really needs to applied carefully. I agree with Spurgeon on the beginner aspect. It's not about age, it's about experience or lack there of to be concise. Horsepower is important, but it's not the only factor. I'm a Harley owner, and over and over again I hear that the Sportster is a great beginner bike. I completely disagree. One the Sportster is very heavy, but moreover it's got more torque than what a beginner rider should have. Is it fast? No. But it's easily got enough torque to get away from you. Horsepower, Torque, Weight, and Height are all factors that should be taken into account. Weight and Height not so much, but Horsepower and Torque both really need to be considered when it comes to first time riding. That would really need to be considered in the tiered licensing program if it were to be implemented.
If you do any hiking, you can understand how destructive horse back riding is. They destroy trails. Thank goodness there are trails forbidden to horses back riding. I've noticed that while wearing a full face helmet, it's like putting a bell over your head. It is so much louder. Especially with loud exhausts. I started wearing a helmet a long time ago. I was riding back from a motorcycle event at night with my lady friend on my 2001 Deuce with ape hangers. I had the wind knocked out of me by a bird hitting me in the ribs. I thought that if that bird had hit me in the head I would have gotten knocked out and killed myself and the woman with me. A friend of mine banged his head on the road and that full face helmed saved his melon from busting all over the road. I guess I ought to wait to post my replies until the show is over so I don't have to re-edit all the time. I just traded in my Street Glide for a Heritage Classic. I would scare myself by taking my eyes off the road while searching for a radio station or GPS. I realized that I had taken my eyes off the road for over hundreds of feet. The teared licensing has deterred a lot of riders in other counties. Lane splitting is also environmentally friendlier.
What a great way to start my Friday.
Could we also start every episode with a 10 second clip of an RSV4 with a full exhaust?
We all need some V4 goodness to start the day.
For tiered licensing, I'm all for it. But for the cost factor the con isn't so much the bike itself, but for the cost of the license itself. My Belgian wife was always interested but didn't get a license until moving to the US because it can cost THOUSANDS for a full license in Belgium plus the endless hours of riding with an instructor that may or may not have an agenda for how many licenses should be issued. As long as the roadblock isn't made too big, it can absolutely work and create better riders.
In regards to listening to music while riding, I use earbuds with adjustable anc. If Cardo or Sena would make something similar with wireless external controls and a wireless mic, I believe it would sell well. That way if you have multiple helmets, its just a matter of transferring your wireless mic to the one you prefer for that ride. The controller could live on a handlebar or stem mount.
I have a kit in two different helmets…just change the unit from one to the other as needed
@@murraehaynes3182 The reason I like the earbuds is because they double as hearing protection. I don't want to listen through earplugs.
@@velocity-ninja4428 you should try Earpeace plugs-cut the harmful decibels and you can hear music just fine…I end up turning the sound down. With earbuds I had loud wind noise and even louder music…now I wear hearing aids when I don’t ride. Take care of your hearing-
There are plenty of earbuds that cut noise as much earplugs. Some for as cheap as $10. I use the Shure se215, an entry level musicians in ear monitor. They are designed to block out sound in a stage setting, also have the bonus of not sticking out of your ears at all to not obstruct a helmet.
Note to people who blast music in public areas, whether on a bike or in a car, I guarantee those around you don't think you're cool, they think you're a tool.
43:00 has The Spurg done any audiophile reviews of in-helmet audio systems? Because I would love to read or hear his thoughts on those available in the industry. Also curious if the foam ear tip earphones are a better or worse alternative to helmet comm sets plus foam earplugs.
I believe you educate adults and let them decide. Educate riders of the dangers of not wearing a helmet and let them decide.
The A2 in Denmark is the middle size motorcycle license. That class includes Kawasaki EN500 and Yamaha XVS650. Both of these have about 50HP, and can pass the max speed limit anywhere in Europe, except for the unrestricted parts of the autobahn in Germany. I was a bit challenged with the packing ability of the EN500 on my 1500 km camping trip in Sweden, but i was never missing on comfort, although i am about 195cm and 120kg, or motor on that trip. The only argument for needing a bigger bike, would be the ability to better fit my baggage.
One of the issues I have with a helmet law is that if I go down and buy a$12-20,000 moto, I absolutely cannot then ride it home without an additional purchase of a $2-500 helmet; however, that is absolutely not the case with seatbelts in a car. If it is mandated, they should be included with the purchase. But for me, freedom to choose trumps all of that. Helmets should be affordable, recommended, and even be included with a purchase, but ultimately it should be up to the adult whether to wear them or not, similar to bicycles.
We're having the same issue with mt bikes in Idaho. And as far as trail damage, yes horses wreck trails.
I agree with Spurgeon on his 50hp limit on new peeps but I think the government would be closer to eu regs with less hp and cc. That being said I liked the old 250 ninja as a starter bike and it's only like 20 to 30hp. It's not fast but its enough imho.
I loved this. Im 5'11 290 (fat fuck) sold my car and been riding a duke 390 for the last year. I agree that my bike would be faster if I lost weight. But its plenty of power I ride hwy also no problem. The biggest thing is it has gotten me off my ass and out and makes me more active and a step towards a healthier me
Helmet, my body my choice / I wear one. Speakers, keep them in your helmet/ I wear one in most of my helmets. License tier, agree/ I started in my late 20s. Lane splitting, should be your choice to perform/ have an air cooled bike that I would and another bike I would not as it is to big if lanes are narrow. Great podcast, love to hear/see this kind of content that is high in my interest. Great job. I am the unusual person in America, I am 100 percent motorcyclist. Love this life.
Hello just wanted to say I love the podcast and you keep me sane for my 4 am shift! I wanted to ask if you could give some thoughts or comments on the hyperbike genre. I own a 2000 Zx12r a1 and can find little information on this bike and have found few people that even know it exists. The Hayabusa really overshadowed it but I have ridden both and the zx12 is far superior in my opinion! Looking foward to hearing y’all’s opinions on this bike and subject. Keep sharing the great motorcycle content! Have a great day!
The US yearly average of motorcycle deaths is above 5,000. United States has an annual average of 13,175 deaths from poisonings, 10,352 deaths from falls, and 2850 deaths from fire/burns occurring in the home. I think our law makers and enforcement have better things to work on as far as helmet laws.
Wear a helmet!
Always enjoy listening to HSLS either when driving or going to the gym.
Would really like to know your opinions on supermotos and why no one ( except the orange/blue-yellow/red ) is making them any more. They are good fun on a twisty road, great commuters, cheap to maintain and you can haev fun in small cart track that are cheaper. Yet, no one is making them.
And also, only Ducati is offering a big bore sumo ( 950 Hyper ). Where is the 890 smr? Or a wr700 from Yamaha? Aprilia Sxv 660? Is there no place for these motorcycles anymore?
I think supermoto has largely been replaced on the street by things like the Mt09, mt07 class of naked hooligan bikes. You can do everything a supermoto can do except jump it, and they are way faster and better at high speeds
I know a long time Harley rider here in Iowa (no helmet law) who said if Iowa ever had a helmet law he would stop riding altogether...
I don't understand this thinking...
I am a life long rider (I'm 65) and could never think of living without riding...I've always worn a helmet even though there isn't a law to do so...I feel vulnerable without one...
I am not a "Harley guy" and prefer European motorcycles but have owned several Japanese motorcycles...
I guess that's the difference...I am a motorcyclists...not a Harley guy.
I'm for helmets I wouldn't be here if not for my helmet cuz I got hit in the face by a pigeon at 60 MPH
Jesus how many time, you het hit by stone chip in highway, just that alone I refuse not to wear full face helmets with screen on. Just one bigger stone in the right place and you in graveyard.
What about "Dead Red" laws? We don't have them here in Maine but I hear about them and wish we did.
that is a very personal individual decision , personally i am A.T.G.A.T.T. but i do not want any govt official making that or any other decision for me , or you nor do i wish to force my decision onto others so
I'm 100% with you Spurg on helmet laws.
Spurge thinks his dad is Riding that Bonnie, little does he know he traded it in on a new v strom !
It’s less of a misconception of horsepower on bikes and more of a massive increase in people’s expectations. When I was 16 my first car was 250hp and by 19 it was 400hp and I certainly was aware of the feeling.
Wow Revzilla.. stop trying to control me.
Even if you are not a motorcyclist, lanesplitting should be something you wanted.
The motorcycle takes up about as much room in the que as a car, for every MC that splits and gets ahead and away, is one less car in front of you when you are at the red light, and therefor a chance of you getting across on green faster, and getting to where you go faster!
The important thing is to make people understand, that lanesplitting is for slow moving traffic, going slightly faster than the cars, not for going 120mph down the highway!
And as Spurg says - You don't have to do it because it's legal, you should only do things you feel safe about!
Great podcast, I think that protective gear should be mandatory at least Helmet, gloves, ... Here in Slovenia we have mandatory helmet wearing. Also you can go and make 125 cc motorcycle license at 16, then we have A2 category that are all bikes limited to 35kW (can be up to 70kW bike, but you can limit it to 35) for that you can make motorcycle license at 18, and than you can get unlimited motorcycle license at 21 (if you had previously A2 category), or 24 if you haven't ride before.
i agree with all of your reasoning about a graduated license but for the part about Govt would be enforcing it making an already bloated overfunded overreaching far too big and powerful govt that much more powerful bigger and more expensive
100% my reason against most restrictive laws that barely effect others. Most in the government that make laws don't live the lives of those they are restricting and don't look at the adverse effects of their laws.
Where is the "my body, my choice" crowd fighting against helmet and seatbelt laws?
1) I equate helmet laws to seatbelt laws and support both. 2) Regarding loud tunes, it's no different than cars blasting their tunes. I personally don't care for it, but don't think it should be against the law any more than any law that may be in place for automobiles. 3) I'm in favor of tiered MC endorsements. (Washington State didn't originally have them, then tried them for a while, then got rid of them) 4) With proper guidelines/parameters in place, I support lane filtering, although I'm not sure how often I would personally partake in it.
If you liked Seinfeld, your next watch would be Curb Your Enthusiasm. Napper was right, your back and forth is somehow conducive to napping. I got a quick nap in the middle of the episode.
I'm from Australia and a big pro to the license requirement is there more variety of bikes on the market both new and used
Probably 90% of the bikes I've seen with speakers have been old guys on their HD's cranking out redneck rock.
I really don't want to be forced to listen to Bob Seger's greatest hits, thank you very much.
On the helmets side, to put things into a different perspective - so beyond the immediate impact it can have on the rider’s safety… in case of an fatal accident [1] the public services will have to deal with a different type of challenges, costs etc. and [2] it will be very likely that the others involved in an accident that survived will suffer from PTSD, so tons of mental distress and financial as well, because therapy is not cheap!
Thank you! Just made this same point with less tact in my own comment. I can't believe this keeps being posed as a personal choice.
I typed this out, then read your similar comment, so I figured consolidation was appropriate. When you operate a motor vehicle of any shape or size on public roads, safety measures aren't just for your protection. If a car driver makes a mistake and kills you because you weren't wearing a helmet, that wasn't their choice and they have to live with your stupidity, or "freedom". There is an obligation we have to each other to coexist in a society.
So if you wear all the gear and still die, that's going to make the person who ran you over feel better how?
@@csolivais1979 I shouldn't have to explain the difference between a mechanic falling over at low speed without a helmet and dying vs an ATGATT catastrophe. Dumb argument. Be serious or consult the bikers on plastic trikes about their helmet views.
@@witHonor1 my mistake. I misunderstood what you were saying in your second point. Sorry for my poor reading compression. I thought you saying that if a car driver killed a motorcycle rider that the car driver's therapy would be expensive.
Tiered licences. I'm in Australia. Tiered licences have been standard here for as long as I remember, but the rules have changed over time.
I got my motorcycle "learner permit" in the mid 1980's. There was one simple rule back then. A beginner could not ride anything bigger than 250cc and the beginner period lasted multiple years. The hot twostroke 250's of the 1980's and early 1990's made the Australian authorities rethink the rules and in the mid 1990's a new set of rules for beginner motorcycles were put in place. Engine size went up to 660cc AND there is a power to weight limit as well, so a modern supersport 600 does NOT qualify as a learner motorcycle because of it's power/weight, even if it is less than 660cc. It takes a little over 4 years from starting as a beginner rider to receiving a full unrestricted motorcycle licence.
Guys really really great podcast. I grew up in Europe in the 90s with the tier license so all I could ride in my teens was a 50cc, I still got into a couple of accidents but nothing major. Forward to 2021 and I have been living in America for almost 20 years, also 20 years without riding a bike finally got the green light from wife and son to go back and pursue that passion and guess what? got myself into a CB300R and I am loving every single ride in that wonderful bike. Am I tired of it? yes i am and I am planning on next year to either get an MT07 or a Scrambler as the next natural progression. No need for a 1200cc with almost 200hp to just cruise around town to have fun. Also if you really enjoying riding a bike for what it is you most likely won’t be doing much of your riding on the highway. As for the Helmets I see it the same as the seat belt I wish they were mandatory but if people choose not to use it as long as they don’t put others in danger then they should be able to choose whatever, as a parent there must be a law for minors to have a seat belt or a helmet just because we live in 2022 and there’s a lot of questionable parenting out there.
I'm 62 I wear all my gear all the time. I see people in shorts sneakers and a wife beater shirt. I just shake my head there adults they know this is a dangerous hobby. But you should have a choice.
Adding another comment. I'm 56 and getting my license this year. I think that your idea on tiering should be based on logged miles not calendar days. If I ride one weekend day a week for eight months a year, it is not the same level of experience as commuting every day for those same eight months. My argument would be two years may not only be too much time, but could also be not be enough time.
I started on mortorcycle because it was easier to go through traffic (lane splitting is legal in my country).
From the scooter I realized that two wheels are fun, got an adventure and went all the way to a lot of off roading and being a beeg mortorcycle enthusiasts.
And I would never get to it if we hadn't had lane splitting.
As a motorcyclist who lives in the United States I am totally in favor for tiered licensing for both cars and bikes. Imo it will lower insurance costs and in general incubate more cautious and responsible driver/rider habits. This is the *quote* LAND OF FREEDOM *unquote* and I can see how some would be against it but it just seems to make too much sense to make one learn in a slower car/bike so that they can create more positive driving/riding habits. However displacement is an *almost* irrelevant factor in the States™️, power to weight is a much more relevant number to consider. An 1800cc V twin dresser that weighs 900lbs will be much easier to handle than an 850cc naked sportbike
It's a steep climb in Wisconsin. Harley guys have not been known to where helmets here. At my work there is a company rule that you can't ride a bike on the property without a helmet and I have a co-worker that walks his bike in and out of the lot rather than wear a helmet. I myself am a all the gear all the time kind of guy, but a national helmet law could loose a lot of riders in Wisconsin. Just my two cents. Great job guys!
I like having speakers on my bike because I only have one helmet that is equipped with a Cardo and earbuds, but I have several helmets. I tend to use the communicator equipped helmet only for longer distance riding and use other helmets for local rides and having the speakers is nice as I can listen to music no matter which helmet I am wearing that day.
I ride with filtered ear plugs and a Sena 10C in one helmet/ Cardo Pactalk Bold in another with the air speakers in the helmets. Works like a charm for both music, gps directions and communication with my friends at about any speed.
@@Imotopilot You don’t know what you are missing until you try molded earbud speakers.
Cardo is selling a mounting kit for the bold. It costs around 70€ before discount.
I’ll use BF to buy one as I have the same ‘problem’: more helmets than unit 😂
21:00 20 year old from Western PA, I was told that I have to wear my helmet even after graduating my MSF class. (I wear it all the time anyways; this was from October this year)
Clarification, yeah it's 21+ your choice, I believe
I like the idea of tiered licensing as well, if we license at all. From 16 to 18 you should be limited to 150cc and under. From 18 to 21 you can go up to 300cc. From 21 onward you have to test into certain displacement brackets.
Re lane-splitting, you did not distinguish between lane-splitting and filtering (moving to the front thru stopped traffic at intersections). I think you'll find significantly more support among riders for filtering.
limiting by CC is just a weird way of doing it. A 650 Ptwin makes similar power to a 2000cc harley.
Just do it like the euros then, 16 y/o you can have 15hp and 125cc, 18 you can have 45hp (or restricted down from 95), 24 you can get unrestricted, or if you had restricted for 2 years you can get it then.
Works perfectly fine.
This is so broken I don't even know how to respond to it... Just... No.
I'm in...how can I help?...great points , gentlemen..thank you
in Israel we have a tiered system and if you do not have any license you start at the bottom 50-125 CC then after a year you can move up to the second license 250CC-500 and then after another year or so unlimited if you have a car license then you can start in the middle at 250-500 then after a year you can do a few lessons then test to get your unlimited license which I think would work great in the US as well.
Drudging up an old video...as an old rider, I would have no issues with a tiered system for new riders. I think that it's smart. Are there hardware concerns, yes. I have an 07 Ninja 250 that I ride all over. I also KNOW my limitations with that bike. I did a sprocket change to it (1 up in front, 1 down rear) to lower it's rpm on the highway slightly so that I'm not winding it way up at 55 (6500rpm vs 8000) I regularly ride it on the highway, HOWEVER, I avoid areas where the average speed is 70+ like the DC beltway. I take backroads when possible as they are less congested and, in my opinion, safer. I have an 09 Ninja 650r for when I HAVE to go via the beltway or high speed areas. I believe that the tiered system will also keep the more dishonest dealerships straight. Years ago, I was in a dealership picking up something when I overheard a salesman doing his damnedest to get a young rider who just got his license to buy a Busa. The kid was looking at a 600 and the salesman was pushing hard to get him on a busa. When the slaesman walked away to get something, I stepped in and told the kid that the Busa was way too much for him and would likely kill him. A tiered license would prevent this. I am not one for government overwatch or overreach, but sometimes we need to be guided when our eyes, and desires are stronger than our sense.
Only time I ride without a helmet is around my small beach town on the scoot but I refuse to throw a leg over the xr650 without one, such a long way to the ground