Personally, I always hated Season 6B theory. I think it dramatically decreases the dramatic effect of the 2nd Doctor's tragic goodbye. Like, is it even really sad if he doesn't actually get punished right then and there, and even gets put back with Jamie (despite us LITERALLY SEEING HIS MEMORIES ERASED). I my opinion the whole of Season 6B has always been a huge slap in the face to the original story that the writers of the War Games were trying to tell. Its a story about The Doctor having everything taken away from him, even his own life, just for doing the right things. But if he doesn't die at the end, and the companions aren't stolen away from him and have their memories erased, then it's no longer sad and tragic. So as far as I am concerned, this is actually tremendously good news.
looking at the blink and you'll miss it regeneration clip it looks a lot like the Confessional Dial version of the regen. He also hinted at 6B so I think it will be sorted!
Change for changes sake on the regeneration. They are appropriating these old stories and changing them for a new audience. But from current viewing figures it seems like there's few newbies
Why make the regeneration the same as all the Nu-Who ones which got a bit boring TBH. All the Classic series ones were unique, should've kept in line with those and just do something different. Hate it when something from a classic franchise is retconned in the original.
The effects kind of reflect the abilities at the time but logically in-universe it makes sense for regen energy to kind of look similar. I don’t mind it. Especially as we didn’t actually see this regeneration originally so it’s not like they are replacing an existing different type of one.
@@Paul_1971 it shouldn't be the same. Each regeneration in the classic show had it's own unique circumstances which affected how the regeneration occurred. Making them all the same was another bad idea that came from Davies. This whole exercise with these releases smacks of trying to make classic Who resemble the inferior new Who.
Next they will go to the through all Classic Who regenerations and make sure them all generic shite NuWho regenerations. Goodbye 5th Doctor's powerful regeneration to welcome NuWho magical gold light effect 😂 you can see it
Would be neat to see Sean Pertwee giving a few lines as a freshly-regenerated 3rd Doctor, if it plays out that way. (Imagine the reaction if it's Jo Martin instead)
If I remember rightly, it was never actually confirmed that Jo Martin's incarnation was the one who worked for Division, nor did we ever get an explanation for why her TARDIS was already a blue box before it had landed in the 1960s...
Actually, we do have an idea how the regeneration is going to go down. It would seem that the footage has been lifted with permission and cooperation from a fan edit video of the Second Doctor's regeneration made by the TH-camr known as The Confession Dial.
For me the the post war games 2nd Doctor is one of the most interesting times in the Doctor's life and when I think about the 2nd Doctor I think about that version. The figure I have on my self in my row of all the Doctor's is the 2nd Doctor with grey hair. I will be very dissapointed if this happens although I can head canon around it or even knowing Russel he would just say it's another split regeneration thing, which I don't really like either but it's atleast better than binning all those stories.
True. It could be bigeneration. 3rd Doctor splits off and a 2nd is left behind to have those adventures. If we see the regeneration though we should SEE that happen
The way that big finish "split" the 2nd doctor out, a bit like Clara, would still fit in if we see him regenerate into 3 as 2 sees this himself when the CIA take him out of time, so I'd be fine with seeing the missing regeneration
@CulturePhilter Yes, a fair bit is padding, maybe three or four episodes, but even then it's a six or seven parter. We know it's only done to get kids, who have the attention span of ten seconds, to get on board.
But Malcolm Hulke's novelization does a great job cutting the story down to only 128-or-something-like-that pages. It can be done. And remember, this new version is going to be a supplement to, not a replacement for, the original-which is still one of my all-time favorite stories in the show's history.
The 2nd Doctor could easily be extracted from his timeline just prior to his forced regeneration, and then slotted back to resume his sentence and exile at a later point. Like 12 did for Clara. Confession Dial hinted at Season 6B with a flashback sequence on his TH-cam revisialisatiom of the regeneration sequence. And his work has officially been incorporated into this new edit.
@@CulturePhilter , it's possible that Jo Martin could feature in an extended flashback. To suggest that the Time Lords degenerated her back to Troughton prior to carrying out the sentence. Which makes her technically a redacted 3rd incarnation? Alternatively, just keep her origins a mystery?
@CulturePhilter nonsense. Fugitive is a pre-Hartnell Doctor. It doesn't make sense for her to be after Two because Two has the sonic screwdriver and Fugitive doesn't know what it is.
Do not alter or cut classic stories just to please people with no attention span. It's an insult to the production team, writers and actors and can give people false impressions about what happened in the story. It's like Davies tampering with the end of Pyramids.
@ - maybe at first. But if it then gets them interested in watching more 1960s Doctor Who they are likely to eventually buy the collection boxsets where the original will be.
It's a shame isn't just because of people with short attention spans we have to suffer after the Daleks I would rather they never touched the stories again, it's complete joke and insult I wont be supporting this nonsense and will stick the real version thank you very much
Actually in the two doctors it's set after the fury from the deep as Jamie laments about leaving Victoria behind plus they didn't do he hair because he was old, but in the 5 doctors he talks too the ghost visions of Jamie and Zoe telling them there memories were wiped so this doctor is the agent doctor
@@CulturePhilter I would disagree- in Two Doctors, he is acting as an agent on behalf of the Time Lords, who he explicitly only gets into contact with again IN the War Games. (Plus, he has a high-tech TARDIS remote control device despite his older self having no memory of ever having one). I think Two Doctors makes the strongest case for 6b; though Five Doctors if the one that is more explicit, as opposed to logically-inferred. Either way, both of them more or less necessitate it in my opinion. (And you know the value of opinions on the internet! ;-) )
I would think both The Five Doctors and Two Doctors take place with a Second Doctor who’s running missions for the CIA. He even tells the Brigadier that he’s “bending” the rules by being there. Jamie can be explained by him convincing the tomelords that he needs help and they let him pull Jamie back from his timeline and restore/altered his memories for the time being, to make him think they’s just dropped off Victoria. Jamie has knowledge in Two Doctors of the Timelords, which he would not have had during the earlier point when they had just dropped her off. After he was done they’d drop him back to the point in time he came from with his memory erased again.
Biregeration as it was shown to work on-screen would mean when they show the regeneration we should SEE the split (as we did when 14 bigenerated). I suppose they MIGHT do that but I don’t think it’s likly
Because Troughton looked older? So did Hartnell in "The Three Doctors", Pertwee in "The Five Doctors" and Davison in "Time Crash", as well as Davison, Baker II, McCoy and McGann in "The Power of the Doctor". (Not to mention the First Doctor looking completely different in "The Five Doctors" and "Twice upon a Time" and "The Power of the Doctor".) If those differences don't need some deuterocanonical "explanation" then neither does Troughton's.
@ ok, then take the 5 doctor’s instead. In that his interaction with fake Jamie and Zoe makes it clear that from 2nd Doctor’s perspective it’s after they were returned to their own times without their memories.
@@CulturePhilter Were you addressing that to me? I was talking only about the difference in Troughton's _appearance_ , which I think is what doctowoissh was getting at when he referred to "the doctor seen" in those reunion stories.
Does it close the gap though? Look at Timecrash, it’s squeezed in between different scenes as shown for the end of series 3 and the Christmas special. The same could then be possible for this situation with the regeneration scene
i hope that in war games colourisation ,the season 6b theory wouldn't be dismissed or subverted because if that happens why too many years of novels and audios about that ,and i hope in "season 2 " of ncuti is confirmed that appart from the timeless child ,season 6b is canon ,and the doctor reveals that in a very important moment and that he is sad to discover in past lives he didn't remember he was forced to regenerate many times before happened again as 2 (troughton) ,whatever season 6b needs to be real in whoniverse,#season6b
@@CulturePhilter Yes, that it will be an omnibus edition and colourised. I really enjoyed the Daleks one, it will be great to see War Games in this format. I enjoyed it when it was out in the 60s, I am certain I will enjoy the new one as well.
@@CulturePhilter It just seems like drawing a 'tache and spectacles on someone elses artwork. This is being edited by people who were not the original creators of the story, they are deciding for the audience what is relevant to the story. Surely cutting out such a huge amount of material can alter context and perception of characters and their actions? I know I wouldn't want to watch, read or listen to any story abridged by a third party, but that's just me.
@@CulturePhilter Having seen the original b&w version twice and not feeling in the least bit bored or that there was a lot of padding, I would have the opinion that it isn't going to work. For a start, there are a lot of characters in it and it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, to bypass them all. But maybe, maybe they'll surprise me.
See….. I’d actually not mind that. I think it makes more sense for her to be between 2 and 3 than pre-Hartnell. I don’t think it’s very likely that’s what they’ll do though. The announcement article says it’ll be regeneration into 3rd Doctor.
In The Five Doctors the second Doctor mentions to Jamie and Zoe when he sees projects of them that their minds have been wiped of any knowledge of the Doctor. Also because we didn't see the second regenerate into the third Doctor people (myself included) believe this is where the fugitive Doctor fits in.
As someone who has never delved into expanded media (because of circumstances). This is not going to bother me to be honest and it being cut down for colourisation doesn't take away from the original for me either but that's just me I have already seen from comments in various places it is not going to go down well at all. I watched from Jon Pertwee and then towards the end of his time so have only done a rewatch when I can get the episode's.
That’s fair. Although it’s not JUST expanded media it effects. The 2nd Doctor in The Two Doctors and the Fugitive Doctor both fit best in this gap too.
I'm fine with seeing the regeneration, I'm hoping it'll stop all the Fugitive Doctor 6B theories, however I don't like that they are cutting down a 10 part 250 minute story into just 90 minutes
@@CulturePhilter I disagree, everything about her incarnation seems like she's from the past she's got a classic TARDIS, no sonic, she put an end to the dark times, and Swarm seemed like a villain The Doctor fought over a long period of time
@@CulturePhilter there are multiple explanations that, it could be in that shape so 13 would recognise it when she dug it up, there's another theory in a Fugitive Doctor comic and there are multiple others that I've seen people talk about, my personal theory is it's a future TARDIS going back to help out the Pre-Hartnell incarnations making sure they go on the right track so the First Doctor can steal the TARDIS later on. I don't think it's that big a deal though tbh
The completionist in me delights in the fact that we'll finally have this regeneration to fill the gap between these eras. However, I can understand why some may be worried about where 6B stories will fit going forward. I think, as you quite rightly suggest, Doctor Who has always had the potential to explain discontinuities, and if that means that the Second Doctor had these adventures in his mind, or the CIA took him out of his own timestream and then returned him the moment before his regeneration, my head cannon will be satisfied. In any case, brilliant analysis as always!
Yes I’m sure there will be workarounds. The more difficult one would be still fitting fugitive Doctor in that gap. Which has been my own personal head-canon until now.
@@CulturePhilter I agree with that, a tricky one to fit in. I could get behind the idea of the fugitive Doctor being a parallel Doctor or perhaps a future Doctor forced into the past with rewritten memories. As you say, the nature of Doctor Who always provides room for theories and ideas. Perhaps Big Finish will offer some new tips regarding the fugitive Doctor some day.
I am not worried about the decision to show the Troughton to Pertwee regeneration. It would not be difficult to create a sequence of the Time Lords (in whatever medium) pulling the Doctor out of time just before the regeneration completes. This could be done in the same way the ending of "Voyage of the Damned" was reconfigured to include "Time Crash". It could also be managed similarly to the opening of "Genesis of the Daleks" when a Time Lord pulls the Doctor out of time. Finally, since this is an alternate version standing next to the original, as opposed to a replacement, the original is intact, still allowing Season 6B narratives. What I am more interested in finding out about is the footage that is not been seen since the original broadcast. I am guessing it is a very short sequence, but I'm curious as to how much footage there is, what episode it belonged to, and whether it will be restored to the original black and white version. I can't seem to find any information about this.
I'm happy that this new colourised version of "The War Games" will include a regeneration. I think the full regeneration should have been shown at the beginning of the next story "Spearhead from Space". Patrick Troughton could even have done his part of the regeneration and in colour before leaving, then it could've been edited together with a section of Jon Pertwee. I don't care about the continuity with media that's not part of the TV series. Your theory about "The Two Doctors" featuring the Second Doctor at a stage somewhere in between "The War Games" and "Spearhead from Space" is wrong because in "The Two Doctors" the Second Doctor was accompanied by Jamie, who was sent home with his memory wiped at the end of "The War Games". However, I don't think the regeneration should be done in the modern style which has been used for every regeneration since 2005. I'd like to see a classic regeneration style, although it was different most times, apart from the spectacular Fourth and Fifth Doctors' regenerations showing their lives flashing before their eyes, which were my favourite regenerations. I think the main issue with this new version of "The War Games" is that they've cut it down to only about a third of its original length! I don't see how this is possible without losing some important details. I saw the whole of "The War Games" not long ago. I can't remember how many times I've ever seen it, though. I now plan to create a document with all the details I can remember. I'll re read it just before and just after watching the colourised version of "The War Games" to see what's missing.
So, let me first deal with the Two Doctor’s bit. Yes he’s with Jamie but Jamie in this story has knowledge of the Timelords, who he didn’t know anything about until The War Games and they are on a mission for the Timelords but before The War Games The Doctor was actively avoiding them. The other thing I forgot to mention from within the show itself is the Five Doctors. In the Doctor’s interactions with fake Jamie and Zoe he references their memories being wiped by the Timelords. So it must be after the War Games for Two in that story.
I love the idea of colourisatin of black and white who all for it but bloody hate the cutdowns its probably the only why it can happen but stiill its like being so close to perfect for me the just missing
There are probably several reasons they went for cut-downs but one would have definitely been cost. It would be prohibitively expensive to do all 10 parts
Pretty sure this scene is already on the Spearhead from Space Third Doctor Blue Ray set. It doesn't (at least that version) contradict the possible existence of "Series 6B"
Well I’ll certainly be relieved if it doesn’t. I’ve heard that it was actually a pre-existing fan created scene which the production then asked if they could use.
Knowing RTD he'll probably Bi-generate! LMAO Seriously though, I don't like cutting off the speculation and fun of 6B, a sandbox we've had to conjecture about for decades. Also since Chibbs, it's been my copium to think of the Fugitive Doctor as fitting in this gap too. If they undo it, it diminishes things. Doctor WHO is so expansive it need never contradict itself unless people force it to, and so yeah, that's my opinion summed up. The original will always be canon for me anyway, not a chopped down version.
I sort of thought the fugitive Doctor being in between 2-3, But someone mentioned in one of the big finish stories that she might be an alternate universe Doctor, which I can kind of get behind more than the other two options. Although interestingly enough, in all the alternate universe’s we’ve seen in Doctor Who, there has never been another version of The Doctor shown.
@@TurtleDudeProd In expanded media there was a whole series dedicated to Alternate Doctors on Big Finish called Unbound. One of those versions played by David Warner was picked up for the Benny Adventures when she gets stuck in another time line (I think she's in his, not him in ours, I haven't heard them).
If Clara can go off and have a million adventures in her own Tardis with Ashelda in the split second before she dies... I'm sure the Second Doctor could also do similar in the split-second before he regenerates. I don't see a problem here if you wish to believe Season 6B happens. Personally, Season 6B won't be welcome in my head-cannon until the TV show confirms it.
True, that would cover further adventures of the 2nd Doctor. However I’m also a fan of the theory that fugitive fits between 2nd and 3rd and that might be harder to square with it. We’ll see
My head canon was always that the second doctor was taken out using a time window for the season 6b stuff and then after he was done brought back in to regenerate so seeing the regeneration stuff doesn’t bother me at all. Plus the original still exists and will always be the definitive version anyways
That would certainly work for the 2nd Doctor stuff. I’ve been head canyoning Fugitive Doctor into that gap too though (explains police box TARDIS and she’s going in missions for Timelords) and your theory doesn’t seem to allow for that.
Whilst the trailer looks amazing, I’m concerned about it being so short and how they’ve managed to cut down 10 episodes to just 90 minutes. A lot will obviously be lost and that is a huge disappointment. However I will still watch it.
I don't have a problem with them editing stories down to make them shorter and more palatable to modern audiences but The Daleks In Colour was not edited well, imo. I mean, they constantly showed flashbacks to things that happened earlier. Even to things you literally saw about a minute before. *The Daleks exterminate the Thals* *Next scene, one of the surviving Thals tells Ian that the Daleks exterminated the Thals* *Shows flashback to the Daleks exterminating the Thals that the viewer saw literally a minute and a half ago.* If they get different editors in, or at least just don't edit it in the bizarre way they did last time, it could be good. Also, good luck to them editing The War Games down to 90 minutes, wow. 💀💀
Tge 2-3 regwberation is an interesting decision of the BBC/Doctor Who, i hope they leave a bit of room for audios, and books. And it's kind of annoying because i also head cannoned the fugitive doctor to be between 2 and 3.
So, canonically precluding season 6B would be a travesty. And I kinda wish they'd leave the old regenerations alone. (I mean, I know it doesn't overwrite the originals as canon, but you know it'll be in the 'every regeneration' montages and basically become the popular culture 'official' regeneration). BUT, it is RTD, and I can't imagine him making such a major blunder. So I'm going to be cautiously optimistic that this isn't messed up...? I dunno about 90 minutes, though, that's barely above 1/3 of the original runtime. I mean, it's somewhat of a repetitive story, but still...
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if he leaves room for interpretation that 6b still happens. Like we see the Doctor spinning out like before and then he wakes up in TARDIS and starts regenerating. General Audience will think one scene immediately follows the other but those that know will assume he’s been on loads of missions in between and had his mind wiped.
I’m fine with it being cut down, personally I think it’s a little bit too long anyway, but the originals are still available if people want to see it. Plus it might bring the laymen to classic who.
@@bigbadbaron8416 it’s not one I’ve actually got around to watching the original of so unlike the Daleks I’m not going to be able to judge if it “works” in the same way (unless I watch original in next month I guess)
@@CulturePhilter Sounds like you've just accepted a challenge!!! It's well worth it. A high-quality story with very dark themes. Definitely written as a serial i.e. big cliff-hangers and the back-and-forth mentioned above. Treat yourself!
@ it’s finding the time to do it that will be the challenge. There’s a reason I haven’t even gotten through half the collection sets sitting on my shelf yet. 😄
In those days, regeneration was only to repair aging or as in the War Games somehow arranged by the Timelords. When the War Chief was killed there was suppposed to be no way back. Over time, it seems to have become a means to make the Doctor virtually immortal.
What they might go with is having 6B happen, then we watch him regenerate in the TARDIS and like the knowledge of time travel, the 3rd Doctor forgets it all happened. I suppose if you are revamping a regeneration story, the USP is you get to see it this time. I was looking forward to the The Daleks in Colour but found it a mess personally. I did buy the Blu-ray but that was for the B&W original which is far superior, even though it lags in places. Will happily get the Blu-ray for this should it appear, perhaps this means the season 6 boxset is due soon?
@@rockysandman5489 two uses the sonic a few times. It’s not the default tool it would later become. no reason why fugitive wouldn’t discard using it without ema thought.
I wouldn't mind cutting it down, if not for it being so short (90 minutes) for a 10 episode serial. They should have made it at least 2 hours. Sounds like the guts of the story will have been ripped out.
It’ll be interesting to see what they’ve cut and if it works. I’m hoping to find the time to watch the original version in next week or so so can better make a judgment on if the cuts work.
10 x 22 min episodes (approx) reduced to 90 minutes? Highly dubious. The colour photos of the sets from the original production look great and it would be interesting to see the episodes colourised, but to just dismiss most of the serial as filler, I think not.
I see it as a complete insult to those who made the episodes it's Pat's final story you can't just cut out 80% of it someone should be fired for that continue to mess up new who all you want but leave classic out of this
I always considered "The War Games" the perfect rejoinder to complaints about padding and the inability of Classic Who to sustain a long form story. I watched this as a boy on first airing and have watched it subsequently as a much older man but still finding it gripping throughout. I don't see padding, rather complexity and character development building tension to the shattering conclusion. I'm not sure how well that survives cutting down to less than half the original run time.
Possibly. There is the theory that the Underwater Menace animation got commissioned because he’s bribing back the Fish People in The War Between the Land and the Sea.
Best thing to do is treat these cut down colourised versions as people do remastered games. The original version is the canonical version but this is a fun, updated way to get new people engaged with the old content and provides a new experience for old viewers. Also a good thing this will do is plug a hole in a way Series 6B fans can ignore, while also making sure we DON’T GET ANOTHER BLOODY RETRO ACTIVE INCARNATION SHOVED IN! Oh, you didn’t see 8 regenerates into 9? Well instead of giving you that here’s The War Doctor you didn’t know you didn’t want until we crammed him in to make The Time War pointless.
Didn’t see the 1st Doctor literally being born and every moment of his life until we meet him in the junkyard? Well, here’s a countless number of incarnations and the most insulting, lazy answer to the Question Doctor Who… Also Richard E Grant is in their now as well somehow, somewhere, Why? Shut up that’s why.
Until otherwise confirmed, I’m just assuming the Richard Grant face was Rouge’s machine getting confused by TGI’s entering the doctor’s timestream. More or less a fluke or glitch, that maybe 15 didn’t even notice.
@@CulturePhilter I think John Hurt could actively decide to give a bad performance and still walk away with a BAFTA its not him I have a problem with, its the concept and execution of the War Doctor on a writing, design and character level that really doesn’t work and the story of the 50th as a whloe that was supposed to be a celebration of Doctor Who but really just under cut and cheapened the whole RTD1 era and started the destabilization of the show as a whole. John Hurt did the best he could with what he was given but it should have been Paul Mcgann.
@@TurtleDudeProd I hope people think it’s the Shalka Doctor being canonized but its actually TGI still hiding in and manipulating The Doctors timeline. Notice how all these retroactive Doctors and old face new number incarnations only started after Name of the Doctor. Heres hoping he gets expelled once and for all and takes all that stuff with him.
@@iamtheecho see I’d say the 50th is the most successful anniversary special the show has had (although the 3 doctors gives it a good run for its money). I love 5 doctors for its call-backs, retuning characters etc as much as the next fan but it’s not a good well paced story. And that really should come first. I think 50th did a good balance. It acknologed the history of the whole show (all the doctors Saving Gallifrey at the end) but knew that if you tried to make them ALL a bigger part of the plot it wouldn’t be a good well structured story. As for War Doctor. I would have gone with Paul before hand too but what we got worked really well so worked out in the end.
Related question: how can original FX and new CGI both be canon? Easy answer: one is, one isn't. Same with this regeneration scene. (Am I the only person feeling for the poor makers of fan film Devious, a serial that's been decades in the making, that includes Jon Pertwee's final performance as the Doctor, and which also needs this explicit regeneration not to exist?)
The biggest issue with the Dalek one was the constant flashback to scenes which were shown less than 10mins before - defo for the TikTok brain generation.
If I could post gifs in these comments this would absolutely be that old woman going “what? Another one!?” (If you’re not British you may not know that, it originates from a news programme asking people on street about a general election)
I'm glad we have a regeneration cause it doesnt mean 6b didn't happen and it'll mean no more of people keep staying Fugitive between 2 and 3 when she's an unbound Doctor from another universe
To me her being between 2 and 3 makes the most sense. Explains the police box TARDIS and keeps the impact of it being a past forgotten regen of 13 in those stories.
@@CulturePhilterSorry but that doesn't make any sense cause that doesn't match the 12 limit of regen cycle. Plus that just copying the war doctor even more than she already has. Also Big Finish already hinted that she's from another universe
@@vortexalliance9938 - we know Timelords can grant extra regens. So to more effectively hide this incarnation from the Doctor himself they could have granted one extra regeneration.
@@CulturePhilter That be a bit weird just to give only 1 extra regen(we don't even know if they can just give 1)but anyway like I said Big Finish in the new audio with Fugitive hinted she's from another universe so with that hint and us seeing 2 regen now I'd say that theory is debunked
Imagine if they stitch the footage from Devious into the end of this edit! Over all I am itching on getting this on physical release as it will probably have the original war games episodes as well, and i'll actually be able to get it for less than 100 bucks!
I’m holding out for a colourisation of Enemy of the World, although it’s part of the missing episodes so may have to be partly reshot/found before that can happen. Good start though hopefully they will do more, and more frequently.
6B has never been anything more than fans trying to explain patterns in things that aren't there. It's far more logical, my dear Zoe, to believe that this took place Pre The War Games, and Jamie simply forgot this encounter (he was heavily traumatised after all), than to shoe-horn 6B into existence. My only gripe with the colorisation is the use of the modern regeneration effect, that we also saw in Twice Upon a Time... That gives me the -
@@CulturePhilter Ah yes, there is that. :) My own head canon as a kid was that the Doctors basically got to do what we later saw 10 do before he regenerated - have a bit of a meander on their own... But of course, that doesn't make sense.
For anyone freaking out about this change. This doesn't replace the original in the timeline so season 6B if you accept it still exists. Keep calm this is just an alternative edit not a full on replacement.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I don’t view the Daleks cutdown as replacing the original but also don’t think it has to sit in its own continuity. It’s just a version that’s showing us some of the events but not as much as the original showed us. I imagine all the other scenes still happening in the continuity of the colourisations, they just happen off screen.
I really wish they’d stop using that cheesy statement about “appealing to a modern audience” as the rationale for chopping out giant chunks of these stories for a colourisation exercises. We live in an age of people bingeing entire seasons of 10 x 45-60 minute episodes in one or two sittings. Can it really be so ‘under-paced’ as to warrant removal of the best part of six and a half episodes of the original content?
After credits and recaps are edited out there is about 3 and a half hours left, so they are chopping out about 2 hours. It can be done satisfactorily, but it will change the feel of the story. IMHO I can't see any point in editing it, or even colourising it, I'd rather it was just left as it is.
@@AshleyReynolds-vc6ly I tend to agree. The colourisation is kinda fun but kinda pointless at the same time. I can’t help but question who it’s being done for. I mean who, *really*? Most young folks these days can’t stay far enough away from black and white, so why not colourise all ten episodes? Nice and colourful and still shorter than the average binged series. Oh yeah, that’s right… it would cost a shed load of money! The real reason for chopping half of it out, maybe? 😜
Yes people binge 10 ep Netflix series but those episodes are still paced very differently to 60s Doctor Who. Look, I’ve binged 3 serials of 60s Who in a day before on multiple occasions. I’m fine with it, but I can also see the place for these cut-down reversions as an alternative.
Im always up for these modern takes on black and white. Its exciting to see this treatment. These are companion treatments and not replacements. I want to see the regen scene to see how the Bbc handle it.
They'll probably cut it out 🤣 taking a 10 episode story and cutting down to 90 minutes seems like a complete insult to the fans and people who made the episodes so I won't be supporting this thought I wanted colour who but not like this 💀
@@CulturePhiltersorta does as I wanted to see the full thing in colour like the music and chopping in the Daleks alone showed us why it doesn't work but they are still doing it 🤯 the war games is the worst episode they could of done this to
@@Budbrothers420 the problem is, these short versions are giving people the wrong impression of what happened in the story, actors who were in certain episodes may find their appearances removed completely and I seriously doubt if new Who fans are only interested in edited versions of classic stories that it will encourage them to watch classic Who.
Since Jo Martin appeared on our screens, I've been assuming the timeline went thus: the second Doctor gets co-opted by the CIA and is pressured into embarking on missions for them (including "The Two Doctors"), one of which must have been excessively hazardous and resulted in a regeneration into Jo Martin's Doctor, who presumably gets increasingly stubborn and unco-operative, so that the CIA gets exasperated and forces another regeneration into Jon Pertwee's Doctor, who is exiled to Earth rather than executed because he might possibly be useful in some as-yet-unknown scenario. Is this how canon looks to be playing out, or have I missed something?
weeeeeeeell actually i have an even worse idea ! i mean they already decannonized William Hartnell as the First doctor and Christopher Eccleston as 9th Doctor so i am thinking there gonna decannonize john pertwee as 3rd Doctor making a new doctor or some Crap like that ! i don't think it's what fans think ! the series 6 B decannonized but rather the 3rd Doctor will be is my theroy ............ so they can make another series based on Classic who ! aka ( milk classic who for all it's worth ) a new Classic Doctor would indeed do that .
I don’t really care about the numbering. People don’t call 9 anything other than 9. Even officially. And I actually am a supporter of the theory that Fugitive Doctor fits between 2 and 3.
@@CulturePhilter sadly though in a comic adaptation it is stated that Fugitive Doctor comes before the first ! although it would be a better fit for her comming in between 2 and 3 like ya said .
@CulturePhilter Well he wouldn't have been on the run from the Time Lords in the War Games for one, as that would have been changed. So 6B doesn't have to be a theory, his past has been altered .
No I'm keeping my money and watch my doctor who war games in black and white you know what you can do with the new colorized version stick it where the sun doesn't shine
Sure, you have that choice. I chose to watch both. In fact I’m going to watch original over next week and then colourisation when it comes out so can compare better.
I found the Daleks almost unwatchable. Music, cutting and dialogue drowned out by music etc Hope this is better, but should have kept original music and cut. Like seeing it in colour though,
I don’t mind new music for the most part (although as I said in the video the escape music was too silly) but the mix needs a better balance between music and dialogue.
I must admit I'm quite excited by the change (I saw the war games for the first time last year) and while I understand people might prefer not to change it, like the colourised version itself, the old version isn't going anywhere.
I'll give the regeneration sequence a chance lmao - I've already got The War Games in B&W - I don't mind a different regeneration sequence - the world is messed up enough to get my knickers in a knot over it. Looks great.
What Bad Wolf Says: "We want to move things forward" What Bad Wolf does: "Let's plunder the past, make it as ADHD for the Gen Z plebs and piss off the old fans by inserting our nonsesne that drove everyone away in it." Leave. it. alone.
@@Farsight-nc1ib I didn’t see it, so either it’s deleted or I’m blocked. You can’t say anything these days without someone losing their mind over it. I have an opinion, I’m going to express it.
Brilliant that they’ve colourised it but cutting it down to a 90 min serial is just as insulting as what they did to the daleks story, if u can’t except the story line for what it always has been why bother watching it in the first place
I don’t think the Daleks one really lost anything story wise though, most it was bits that dragged on like traversing large areas which work better just knowing it happened rather than seeing every slow bit of it.
I probably can't comment on this as I'm not too familiar with 2nd and 3rd Doctors. But to me, not being able to see the 3rd Doctor's origin is incredibly frustrating, almost disrespectful to the character. There's no logical or dramatic reason not to show it. (continued in my comments below...)
(1/3) Now it wasn't so bad with the 9th Doctor, because that was after a LONG break, and we were seeing things through Rose's eyes and he was a mysterious stranger, so it felt natural that the HUMANS would be the protagonists, because the Doctor had been away so long.
(2/3) However, when Pertwee first falls out of the TARDIS, he's very much the protagonist. Audiences had been following his adventures for years. To me, omitting the regeneration was a terrible mistake, which I absolutely welcome the rectification of.
(3/3) By saying this, I'm not saying I don't care about novel and audio canon, but to me, that is a _secondary_ (optional) canon. The actual TV show should always take priority, because this is the primary franchise, and needs to be enjoyable (and understandable) when viewed in isolation. (Sorry to split my comment into 4 but Google wouldn't let me post it otherwise)
250 minutes trimmed down to 90? the daleks kept 10 minutes per episode roughly, this isn't even as much as that, gosh this will be breakneck speed. Should be interesting though. I feel like this doesn't neceserily affect canon, just because the cutdown version shows the regeneration on the end doesn't mean that there isn't a gap, they'll be cutting three hours of other stuff out, that stuff is still canon to the broader show, right? So season 6b can similarly still happen, just not be shown.
@ I’ve never seen it. There are big chunks of classic who I haven’t quite gotten around to yet. I’ve seen most of 1st, most of 3rd, all of 6, most of 7 but the rest is a bit more scatty.
@@CulturePhilter oh wow, yeah, I definitely recommend checking it out, then. It's pretty long but it's really good, I first saw it way back in 2008ish when I bought the vhs version from a friend at school, so I've seen it many times.
Holmes's explanation was that the Timelords know/knew about the Doctor all along & the Doctor knew the Timelords knew but they were using him to do their dirty work etc...
@CulturePhilter nope, everything post 2017 is not Doctor Who. It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history, along with RTD. All that drivel is why the show is in the mess it's in.
Hmmm it's not for me. The mystery was fine. It's really not just the expanded media. Even the Five Doctors implies that the Doctor has been snatched from his timeline _after_ the Wargames trial because of his comments to the phantom Zoe and Jamie.
So, it was confirmed on Twitter and TH-cam that the regeneration is being taken from the TH-cam account The Confession Dial. He said that he was asked permission for the use of it by the BBC and made a few alterations for their version of the broadcast. Interesting though, is that the edit on TH-cam features small flashes of events like "The Three Doctors", implying that season 6B might have occurred and that that is, as fan theories suggest, where these stories took place. I am not putting it past Russell to leave that part of the edit in tact. On a sidenote, he also hinted that he worked on another project that he can't talk about yet, so the BBC is using him for more than just this edit.
For me personally im looking forward to it, i did notice the shot of the 2nd doctor regenerating seems to be from a fan creation, if they do something interesting with it i will love it
Ughhhh shite NuWho regeneration magic light 😂 never liked NuWho regeneration. I wonder if they make Troughton back step, turn, arms outstretched que nearly every NuWho regeneration.
I think it’s a good effect when they don’t over do it. Doesn’t need flames shooting out to destroy the TARDIS or Daleks like it has sometimes been used. When it’s used more subtly like in Eccleston to Tennant it’s best.
The Confessional Dial version of 2 regenerating, shows a flash of images, and then he's regenerating in the Tardis. If you frame by frame those images that flash by, one image shows an Angel behind 2, another image shows a shot from The 2 Doctors (6b), and then lastly, it shows a shot of the Doctor with a scarecrow behind him. So the new regeneration theyre adding in will uphold continuity, and make 6b and him being taken away by the scarecrows canon.
Maybe they’ll surprise us and they’ll show him go off to do other things then a “much later” scene for him to regenerate after 6b. Or regenerate into the Fugitive doctor. If they’re going to mess with retcons then make it count.
It's much the same as the Eighth Doctor into War in NOTD as in it's belated and from a minisode or special, not an actual episode. I like that it's coming from DW themselves and it means I can accept it, or decide not to. Personally I'd love to see Two into Three.
They should just be honest and say old Who is crap/problematic and boring. And the only way 'the kids' are going to watch is if you colour it - hack it to bits and slap cgi and make it fit the 'new who style' If you think that such an approach is going to bring in new fans who will then want to watch the original B&W era - I have a bridge to sell you.
If you believe spouting such deranged nonsensical gibberish will magically make it become true, then you need your head examined because no functioning braincells could possibly be present there.
Side notes: While you mention the Second Doctor's appearance in "The Two Doctors", his appearance in "The Five Doctors" also implies the Second Doctor is post-War Games. Also focusing just on EU stuff, some of the novels written with a post-War Games Second Doctor were written by Terrance Dicks - who was one of the writers of the War Games.
okay i always thought this the war lord in war games was an early re gen of the master if u go foreward to the 5 drs the master says believe it or not we where in the academy together go back listen he says welcome to the academy
Cannon has gone out the window for Doctor Who, it’s the reason I stopped watching, they make changes to suit themselves and don’t care a bit about the lore and haven’t done for ages.
Personally, I always hated Season 6B theory. I think it dramatically decreases the dramatic effect of the 2nd Doctor's tragic goodbye. Like, is it even really sad if he doesn't actually get punished right then and there, and even gets put back with Jamie (despite us LITERALLY SEEING HIS MEMORIES ERASED).
I my opinion the whole of Season 6B has always been a huge slap in the face to the original story that the writers of the War Games were trying to tell.
Its a story about The Doctor having everything taken away from him, even his own life, just for doing the right things.
But if he doesn't die at the end, and the companions aren't stolen away from him and have their memories erased, then it's no longer sad and tragic.
So as far as I am concerned, this is actually tremendously good news.
Fair enough. It’s a perfectly valid opinion. Not one I share but I get where you’re coming from.
looking at the blink and you'll miss it regeneration clip it looks a lot like the Confessional Dial version of the regen. He also hinted at 6B so I think it will be sorted!
We’ll have to wait and see 🙂
Change for changes sake on the regeneration. They are appropriating these old stories and changing them for a new audience. But from current viewing figures it seems like there's few newbies
Well we don’t know worldwide viewing figures from Disney. Although I guess this isn’t being streamed anywhere outside of the UK.
Why make the regeneration the same as all the Nu-Who ones which got a bit boring TBH. All the Classic series ones were unique, should've kept in line with those and just do something different. Hate it when something from a classic franchise is retconned in the original.
The effects kind of reflect the abilities at the time but logically in-universe it makes sense for regen energy to kind of look similar. I don’t mind it. Especially as we didn’t actually see this regeneration originally so it’s not like they are replacing an existing different type of one.
@@Paul_1971 it shouldn't be the same. Each regeneration in the classic show had it's own unique circumstances which affected how the regeneration occurred. Making them all the same was another bad idea that came from Davies.
This whole exercise with these releases smacks of trying to make classic Who resemble the inferior new Who.
@@Farsight-nc1ib 100%
@@Paul_1971 thank you!
Next they will go to the through all Classic Who regenerations and make sure them all generic shite NuWho regenerations. Goodbye 5th Doctor's powerful regeneration to welcome NuWho magical gold light effect 😂 you can see it
Would be neat to see Sean Pertwee giving a few lines as a freshly-regenerated 3rd Doctor, if it plays out that way.
(Imagine the reaction if it's Jo Martin instead)
There was speculation about him recording something for last years finale that never transpired… maybe it was actually for THIS instead.
OH MY GOSH YES-
Yooooooooooooooo I could see them doing that!
Sean Pertwee has consistently declined offers to appear as the 3rd Doctor. He’s said repeatedly that he is not interested in playing his father.
If I remember rightly, it was never actually confirmed that Jo Martin's incarnation was the one who worked for Division, nor did we ever get an explanation for why her TARDIS was already a blue box before it had landed in the 1960s...
Actually, we do have an idea how the regeneration is going to go down. It would seem that the footage has been lifted with permission and cooperation from a fan edit video of the Second Doctor's regeneration made by the TH-camr known as The Confession Dial.
Oh interesting, will have to look if it’s still up or if they’ve asked them to take it down as part f the deal
@@CulturePhilter It's still up! 😊. th-cam.com/video/e7hO8Zx4ATs/w-d-xo.htmlsi=yq2Parh4VGaN0YRr
@@CulturePhilterit’s up tho not exactly the same it’s been redone for the episode.
@@CulturePhilter It's still up on TH-cam, though he confirmed that he slightly edited it for the BBC release to fit in with their reconstruction.
For me the the post war games 2nd Doctor is one of the most interesting times in the Doctor's life and when I think about the 2nd Doctor I think about that version. The figure I have on my self in my row of all the Doctor's is the 2nd Doctor with grey hair. I will be very dissapointed if this happens although I can head canon around it or even knowing Russel he would just say it's another split regeneration thing, which I don't really like either but it's atleast better than binning all those stories.
True. It could be bigeneration. 3rd Doctor splits off and a 2nd is left behind to have those adventures. If we see the regeneration though we should SEE that happen
The way that big finish "split" the 2nd doctor out, a bit like Clara, would still fit in if we see him regenerate into 3 as 2 sees this himself when the CIA take him out of time, so I'd be fine with seeing the missing regeneration
As long as the original is kept and included in any physcial form release then I have no problem.
I can’t remember if they included the original on the Daleks release. But they’ve kept the original available on streaming and for sale on DVD
A 10 episode story down to 90 minutes? Errrrm...Nope.
Hacked to pieces.
Fully agree with you there. A bit worried about this issue.
Yes but how much of those 10 episodes was vital to the story? I k ie a lot of people, even fans of 2nd Doctor era, say this story drags.
@CulturePhilter Yes, a fair bit is padding, maybe three or four episodes, but even then it's a six or seven parter.
We know it's only done to get kids, who have the attention span of ten seconds, to get on board.
No no no. Hacked to pieces is my own 10 Minute Edit. That's hacked to pieces.
But Malcolm Hulke's novelization does a great job cutting the story down to only 128-or-something-like-that pages. It can be done. And remember, this new version is going to be a supplement to, not a replacement for, the original-which is still one of my all-time favorite stories in the show's history.
The 2nd Doctor could easily be extracted from his timeline just prior to his forced regeneration, and then slotted back to resume his sentence and exile at a later point. Like 12 did for Clara.
Confession Dial hinted at Season 6B with a flashback sequence on his TH-cam revisialisatiom of the regeneration sequence. And his work has officially been incorporated into this new edit.
True but I also head-canon that the fugitive doctor fits between 2 and 3. That explanation doesn’t seem to leave the possibility of that.
@@CulturePhilter , it's possible that Jo Martin could feature in an extended flashback. To suggest that the Time Lords degenerated her back to Troughton prior to carrying out the sentence. Which makes her technically a redacted 3rd incarnation? Alternatively, just keep her origins a mystery?
@CulturePhilter nonsense. Fugitive is a pre-Hartnell Doctor. It doesn't make sense for her to be after Two because Two has the sonic screwdriver and Fugitive doesn't know what it is.
Yea I was just about to say that too
Hmm. Will have to view before I make a judgement. Will this enable the renegade Dr (Jo Martin), to be inserted here? Let's hope not.
Do not alter or cut classic stories just to please people with no attention span. It's an insult to the production team, writers and actors and can give people false impressions about what happened in the story. It's like Davies tampering with the end of Pyramids.
It’s not replacing the original though. It sits alongside it. Both will remain available, so you’re not losing anything.
@CulturePhilter but someone will buy it instead of the original which they shouldn't.
@ - maybe at first. But if it then gets them interested in watching more 1960s Doctor Who they are likely to eventually buy the collection boxsets where the original will be.
@CulturePhilter unlikely
It's a shame isn't just because of people with short attention spans we have to suffer after the Daleks I would rather they never touched the stories again, it's complete joke and insult I wont be supporting this nonsense and will stick the real version thank you very much
Actually in the two doctors it's set after the fury from the deep as Jamie laments about leaving Victoria behind plus they didn't do he hair because he was old, but in the 5 doctors he talks too the ghost visions of Jamie and Zoe telling them there memories were wiped so this doctor is the agent doctor
Yes I should have mentioned 5 Doctors. It’s a stronger case for Season 6b
@@CulturePhilter I would disagree- in Two Doctors, he is acting as an agent on behalf of the Time Lords, who he explicitly only gets into contact with again IN the War Games. (Plus, he has a high-tech TARDIS remote control device despite his older self having no memory of ever having one). I think Two Doctors makes the strongest case for 6b; though Five Doctors if the one that is more explicit, as opposed to logically-inferred. Either way, both of them more or less necessitate it in my opinion. (And you know the value of opinions on the internet! ;-) )
I would think both The Five Doctors and Two Doctors take place with a Second Doctor who’s running missions for the CIA. He even tells the Brigadier that he’s “bending” the rules by being there. Jamie can be explained by him convincing the tomelords that he needs help and they let him pull Jamie back from his timeline and restore/altered his memories for the time being, to make him think they’s just dropped off Victoria. Jamie has knowledge in Two Doctors of the Timelords, which he would not have had during the earlier point when they had just dropped her off. After he was done they’d drop him back to the point in time he came from with his memory erased again.
@@TurtleDudeProd good point
More to the point, with the bigeneration thing going on, is the 6B version of 2 still out there?
Biregeration as it was shown to work on-screen would mean when they show the regeneration we should SEE the split (as we did when 14 bigenerated). I suppose they MIGHT do that but I don’t think it’s likly
It would make the doctor seen in five doctors, three doctors and Two doctors very difficult to explain if the 6b story is killed off
Well yes, it’s not just an expanded universe issue.
Because Troughton looked older? So did Hartnell in "The Three Doctors", Pertwee in "The Five Doctors" and Davison in "Time Crash", as well as Davison, Baker II, McCoy and McGann in "The Power of the Doctor". (Not to mention the First Doctor looking completely different in "The Five Doctors" and "Twice upon a Time" and "The Power of the Doctor".)
If those differences don't need some deuterocanonical "explanation" then neither does Troughton's.
@ ok, then take the 5 doctor’s instead. In that his interaction with fake Jamie and Zoe makes it clear that from 2nd Doctor’s perspective it’s after they were returned to their own times without their memories.
@@CulturePhilter
Were you addressing that to me? I was talking only about the difference in Troughton's _appearance_ , which I think is what doctowoissh was getting at when he referred to "the doctor seen" in those reunion stories.
@@CulturePhilter I never considered that. Yikes, it gets worse! 😥
Does it close the gap though? Look at Timecrash, it’s squeezed in between different scenes as shown for the end of series 3 and the Christmas special. The same could then be possible for this situation with the regeneration scene
@@jonathanreed7349 I guess. And that may be the head-canon. Have to go with. We’ll see what ends up on screen I guess.
i hope that in war games colourisation ,the season 6b theory wouldn't be dismissed or subverted because if that happens why too many years of novels and audios about that ,and i hope in "season 2 " of ncuti is confirmed that appart from the timeless child ,season 6b is canon ,and the doctor reveals that in a very important moment and that he is sad to discover in past lives he didn't remember he was forced to regenerate many times before happened again as 2 (troughton) ,whatever season 6b needs to be real in whoniverse,#season6b
Yeah would be a shame to sweep it away.
Looking forward to this
The colourisation?
@@CulturePhilter Yes, that it will be an omnibus edition and colourised. I really enjoyed the Daleks one, it will be great to see War Games in this format. I enjoyed it when it was out in the 60s, I am certain I will enjoy the new one as well.
@@Graphicxtras1 I’m looking forward to it too. I’m going to try and watch original over next week first though to better compare.
So losing 160 minutes, almost two thirds of the story. Not for me, sorry.
That’s certinally a lot, how much of it is vital to core plot though? (I don’t have the answer, just posing the question)
I mean for a 10 part cereal, that is about right.
@@CulturePhilter It just seems like drawing a 'tache and spectacles on someone elses artwork. This is being edited by people who were not the original creators of the story, they are deciding for the audience what is relevant to the story. Surely cutting out such a huge amount of material can alter context and perception of characters and their actions? I know I wouldn't want to watch, read or listen to any story abridged by a third party, but that's just me.
@@CulturePhilter Having seen the original b&w version twice and not feeling in the least bit bored or that there was a lot of padding, I would have the opinion that it isn't going to work. For a start, there are a lot of characters in it and it's going to be difficult, if not impossible, to bypass them all. But maybe, maybe they'll surprise me.
I can see how they could tighten it up and lose about 30 minutes - but not 160.
The 2nd Doctor in the Two Doctors could be the Curator he likes to revisit faces
I suppose that’s POSSIBLE, not sure how I feel about it though. Requires some pondering 🤔
The Two Doctors is set in between fury from the deep and the wheel in space
@@travisgray8376 I think it was supposed to be set during Victoria's time because Jamie talks about getting back to her..
@@travisgray8376 But the Second Doctor is acting as an agent for the Time Lords...
Im scared im thinking the regeneration will be edited to have troughton regenerate into Doctor Ruth
See….. I’d actually not mind that. I think it makes more sense for her to be between 2 and 3 than pre-Hartnell.
I don’t think it’s very likely that’s what they’ll do though. The announcement article says it’ll be regeneration into 3rd Doctor.
@CulturePhilter as doctor house says everyone lies so it could be a big surprise moment
lets hope not,, just keep the modern rubbish away from classic
In The Five Doctors the second Doctor mentions to Jamie and Zoe when he sees projects of them that their minds have been wiped of any knowledge of the Doctor.
Also because we didn't see the second regenerate into the third Doctor people (myself included) believe this is where the fugitive Doctor fits in.
Yes that’s where I’ve assumed fugitive fits too.
As someone who has never delved into expanded media (because of circumstances). This is not going to bother me to be honest and it being cut down for colourisation doesn't take away from the original for me either but that's just me I have already seen from comments in various places it is not going to go down well at all.
I watched from Jon Pertwee and then towards the end of his time so have only done a rewatch when I can get the episode's.
That’s fair. Although it’s not JUST expanded media it effects. The 2nd Doctor in The Two Doctors and the Fugitive Doctor both fit best in this gap too.
I'm fine with seeing the regeneration, I'm hoping it'll stop all the Fugitive Doctor 6B theories, however I don't like that they are cutting down a 10 part 250 minute story into just 90 minutes
Ahhh see I’m an supporter of fugitive 6b theory. Makes much more sense than her being pre-Hartnell to me.
Oh see, I’m a supporter of the Fugitive 6b theory. It makes so much more sense to me than her being pre-Hartnell.
@@CulturePhilter I disagree, everything about her incarnation seems like she's from the past she's got a classic TARDIS, no sonic, she put an end to the dark times, and Swarm seemed like a villain The Doctor fought over a long period of time
@@kylerees3491 a pre Hartnell Doctor shouldn’t have a TARDIS that looks like a police box though.
@@CulturePhilter there are multiple explanations that, it could be in that shape so 13 would recognise it when she dug it up, there's another theory in a Fugitive Doctor comic and there are multiple others that I've seen people talk about, my personal theory is it's a future TARDIS going back to help out the Pre-Hartnell incarnations making sure they go on the right track so the First Doctor can steal the TARDIS later on. I don't think it's that big a deal though tbh
Wasn't the Toymaker's line about "making a jigsaw out of your history" a way of making discontinuities part of the canon?
It could certainly be interpreted that way. The Time war and the Crack I. Time from 11s era also can serve similar purpose.
It’s one thing to cut a six or even seven part story down to 90 minutes, but doing so to a 10-parter is like adapting Moby Dick into a haiku.
It’s a lot to cut for sure. We’ll have to wait and see if it works if not.
The completionist in me delights in the fact that we'll finally have this regeneration to fill the gap between these eras. However, I can understand why some may be worried about where 6B stories will fit going forward. I think, as you quite rightly suggest, Doctor Who has always had the potential to explain discontinuities, and if that means that the Second Doctor had these adventures in his mind, or the CIA took him out of his own timestream and then returned him the moment before his regeneration, my head cannon will be satisfied. In any case, brilliant analysis as always!
Yes I’m sure there will be workarounds. The more difficult one would be still fitting fugitive Doctor in that gap. Which has been my own personal head-canon until now.
@@CulturePhilter I agree with that, a tricky one to fit in. I could get behind the idea of the fugitive Doctor being a parallel Doctor or perhaps a future Doctor forced into the past with rewritten memories. As you say, the nature of Doctor Who always provides room for theories and ideas. Perhaps Big Finish will offer some new tips regarding the fugitive Doctor some day.
I am not worried about the decision to show the Troughton to Pertwee regeneration. It would not be difficult to create a sequence of the Time Lords (in whatever medium) pulling the Doctor out of time just before the regeneration completes. This could be done in the same way the ending of "Voyage of the Damned" was reconfigured to include "Time Crash". It could also be managed similarly to the opening of "Genesis of the Daleks" when a Time Lord pulls the Doctor out of time. Finally, since this is an alternate version standing next to the original, as opposed to a replacement, the original is intact, still allowing Season 6B narratives. What I am more interested in finding out about is the footage that is not been seen since the original broadcast. I am guessing it is a very short sequence, but I'm curious as to how much footage there is, what episode it belonged to, and whether it will be restored to the original black and white version. I can't seem to find any information about this.
Yes, I’m intrigued by that recovered scene too.
I'm happy that this new colourised version of "The War Games" will include a regeneration. I think the full regeneration should have been shown at the beginning of the next story "Spearhead from Space". Patrick Troughton could even have done his part of the regeneration and in colour before leaving, then it could've been edited together with a section of Jon Pertwee. I don't care about the continuity with media that's not part of the TV series. Your theory about "The Two Doctors" featuring the Second Doctor at a stage somewhere in between "The War Games" and "Spearhead from Space" is wrong because in "The Two Doctors" the Second Doctor was accompanied by Jamie, who was sent home with his memory wiped at the end of "The War Games". However, I don't think the regeneration should be done in the modern style which has been used for every regeneration since 2005. I'd like to see a classic regeneration style, although it was different most times, apart from the spectacular Fourth and Fifth Doctors' regenerations showing their lives flashing before their eyes, which were my favourite regenerations. I think the main issue with this new version of "The War Games" is that they've cut it down to only about a third of its original length! I don't see how this is possible without losing some important details. I saw the whole of "The War Games" not long ago. I can't remember how many times I've ever seen it, though. I now plan to create a document with all the details I can remember. I'll re read it just before and just after watching the colourised version of "The War Games" to see what's missing.
So, let me first deal with the Two Doctor’s bit. Yes he’s with Jamie but Jamie in this story has knowledge of the Timelords, who he didn’t know anything about until The War Games and they are on a mission for the Timelords but before The War Games The Doctor was actively avoiding them.
The other thing I forgot to mention from within the show itself is the Five Doctors. In the Doctor’s interactions with fake Jamie and Zoe he references their memories being wiped by the Timelords. So it must be after the War Games for Two in that story.
I love the idea of colourisatin of black and white who all for it but bloody hate the cutdowns its probably the only why it can happen but stiill its like being so close to perfect for me the just missing
There are probably several reasons they went for cut-downs but one would have definitely been cost. It would be prohibitively expensive to do all 10 parts
Yep still looking forward to seeing how it is though@@CulturePhilter
Pretty sure this scene is already on the Spearhead from Space Third Doctor Blue Ray set. It doesn't (at least that version) contradict the possible existence of "Series 6B"
Well I’ll certainly be relieved if it doesn’t. I’ve heard that it was actually a pre-existing fan created scene which the production then asked if they could use.
Knowing RTD he'll probably Bi-generate! LMAO
Seriously though, I don't like cutting off the speculation and fun of 6B, a sandbox we've had to conjecture about for decades. Also since Chibbs, it's been my copium to think of the Fugitive Doctor as fitting in this gap too. If they undo it, it diminishes things. Doctor WHO is so expansive it need never contradict itself unless people force it to, and so yeah, that's my opinion summed up. The original will always be canon for me anyway, not a chopped down version.
Yeah I like to think of fugitive fitting there too. Makes sense why she calls herself Doctor and has a police box TARDIS that way
I sort of thought the fugitive Doctor being in between 2-3, But someone mentioned in one of the big finish stories that she might be an alternate universe Doctor, which I can kind of get behind more than the other two options. Although interestingly enough, in all the alternate universe’s we’ve seen in Doctor Who, there has never been another version of The Doctor shown.
@@TurtleDudeProd In expanded media there was a whole series dedicated to Alternate Doctors on Big Finish called Unbound. One of those versions played by David Warner was picked up for the Benny Adventures when she gets stuck in another time line (I think she's in his, not him in ours, I haven't heard them).
I'm disappointed that the regeneration is not distinct and different and has a unique feel to it
I get the in-universe logic of it. It makes sense that they would look similar.
Can't see how they can edit 10 episodes into 90 mins, it's just silly.
I see lots of people saying that the story is a lot of filler but yes, even if that’s true that dies seem like a LOT to cut.
If Clara can go off and have a million adventures in her own Tardis with Ashelda in the split second before she dies... I'm sure the Second Doctor could also do similar in the split-second before he regenerates. I don't see a problem here if you wish to believe Season 6B happens. Personally, Season 6B won't be welcome in my head-cannon until the TV show confirms it.
True, that would cover further adventures of the 2nd Doctor. However I’m also a fan of the theory that fugitive fits between 2nd and 3rd and that might be harder to square with it. We’ll see
My head canon was always that the second doctor was taken out using a time window for the season 6b stuff and then after he was done brought back in to regenerate so seeing the regeneration stuff doesn’t bother me at all. Plus the original still exists and will always be the definitive version anyways
That would certainly work for the 2nd Doctor stuff. I’ve been head canyoning Fugitive Doctor into that gap too though (explains police box TARDIS and she’s going in missions for Timelords) and your theory doesn’t seem to allow for that.
Exactly my view
Whilst the trailer looks amazing, I’m concerned about it being so short and how they’ve managed to cut down 10 episodes to just 90 minutes. A lot will obviously be lost and that is a huge disappointment. However I will still watch it.
I’m going to watch the original over the next week so I can better compare and see if I think they’ve cut too much or if it still works.
I don't have a problem with them editing stories down to make them shorter and more palatable to modern audiences but The Daleks In Colour was not edited well, imo. I mean, they constantly showed flashbacks to things that happened earlier. Even to things you literally saw about a minute before.
*The Daleks exterminate the Thals*
*Next scene, one of the surviving Thals tells Ian that the Daleks exterminated the Thals*
*Shows flashback to the Daleks exterminating the Thals that the viewer saw literally a minute and a half ago.*
If they get different editors in, or at least just don't edit it in the bizarre way they did last time, it could be good.
Also, good luck to them editing The War Games down to 90 minutes, wow. 💀💀
I agree that the flashbacks were unnecessary. I can only imagine they were used to cover otherwise awkward edits.
Tge 2-3 regwberation is an interesting decision of the BBC/Doctor Who, i hope they leave a bit of room for audios, and books. And it's kind of annoying because i also head cannoned the fugitive doctor to be between 2 and 3.
Glad someone agrees with me on fugitive placing. Gotten a lot of comments glad that it discounts that possibility 🤷♂️
So, canonically precluding season 6B would be a travesty. And I kinda wish they'd leave the old regenerations alone. (I mean, I know it doesn't overwrite the originals as canon, but you know it'll be in the 'every regeneration' montages and basically become the popular culture 'official' regeneration).
BUT, it is RTD, and I can't imagine him making such a major blunder. So I'm going to be cautiously optimistic that this isn't messed up...?
I dunno about 90 minutes, though, that's barely above 1/3 of the original runtime. I mean, it's somewhat of a repetitive story, but still...
Yeah I wouldn’t be surprised if he leaves room for interpretation that 6b still happens. Like we see the Doctor spinning out like before and then he wakes up in TARDIS and starts regenerating. General Audience will think one scene immediately follows the other but those that know will assume he’s been on loads of missions in between and had his mind wiped.
I’m fine with it being cut down, personally I think it’s a little bit too long anyway, but the originals are still available if people want to see it. Plus it might bring the laymen to classic who.
Yeah that’s my stance too.
the constant backstabbing on both sides makes this story so great. 10 episodes is perfect for such a great story.
@@bigbadbaron8416 it’s not one I’ve actually got around to watching the original of so unlike the Daleks I’m not going to be able to judge if it “works” in the same way (unless I watch original in next month I guess)
@@CulturePhilter Sounds like you've just accepted a challenge!!! It's well worth it. A high-quality story with very dark themes. Definitely written as a serial i.e. big cliff-hangers and the back-and-forth mentioned above. Treat yourself!
@ it’s finding the time to do it that will be the challenge. There’s a reason I haven’t even gotten through half the collection sets sitting on my shelf yet. 😄
Will we also see the War Chief regenerate... (chuckles masterfully)... ?😃
😄 I think it’s be quite funny if we saw it start but never see who he regenerates into… a tip of the hat to fan theory without outright confirming
In those days, regeneration was only to repair aging or as in the War Games somehow arranged by the Timelords. When the War Chief was killed there was suppposed to be no way back. Over time, it seems to have become a means to make the Doctor virtually immortal.
What they might go with is having 6B happen, then we watch him regenerate in the TARDIS and like the knowledge of time travel, the 3rd Doctor forgets it all happened. I suppose if you are revamping a regeneration story, the USP is you get to see it this time. I was looking forward to the The Daleks in Colour but found it a mess personally. I did buy the Blu-ray but that was for the B&W original which is far superior, even though it lags in places. Will happily get the Blu-ray for this should it appear, perhaps this means the season 6 boxset is due soon?
Yes hopefully season 6 collection set is on its way. The 60s seasons have been lacking.
It would certainly place the Jo Martin doctor as pre- hartnel if they were to close that gap completely...
Hmmm yes…. I’m not keen on that. I like slotting her in between 2 and 3
@@CulturePhilter How so? It doesn't make sense for her to be between 2 and 3. 2 has the sonic screwdriver and Fugitive doesn't.
@@rockysandman5489 two uses the sonic a few times. It’s not the default tool it would later become. no reason why fugitive wouldn’t discard using it without ema thought.
I think they already canonize her being pre-hartnell in the official comics.
I wouldn't mind cutting it down, if not for it being so short (90 minutes) for a 10 episode serial. They should have made it at least 2 hours. Sounds like the guts of the story will have been ripped out.
It’ll be interesting to see what they’ve cut and if it works. I’m hoping to find the time to watch the original version in next week or so so can better make a judgment on if the cuts work.
10 x 22 min episodes (approx) reduced to 90 minutes? Highly dubious. The colour photos of the sets from the original production look great and it would be interesting to see the episodes colourised, but to just dismiss most of the serial as filler, I think not.
Yeah it is a LOT to cut. Significantly more than they did for The Daleks.
I see it as a complete insult to those who made the episodes it's Pat's final story you can't just cut out 80% of it someone should be fired for that continue to mess up new who all you want but leave classic out of this
I always considered "The War Games" the perfect rejoinder to complaints about padding and the inability of Classic Who to sustain a long form story. I watched this as a boy on first airing and have watched it subsequently as a much older man but still finding it gripping throughout.
I don't see padding, rather complexity and character development building tension to the shattering conclusion. I'm not sure how well that survives cutting down to less than half the original run time.
Perhaps pave the way for RTD to bring back the War Chief and the War Lord in new episodes? 🤔
Possibly. There is the theory that the Underwater Menace animation got commissioned because he’s bribing back the Fish People in The War Between the Land and the Sea.
For years, fans have complained about 'The War Games' being too long. Now they're upset because they think its too short! lol
You can’t please a Doctor Who fan 🤣
I actually love all 10 episodes - I find I get absorbed by the story and before I know it I'm at the final episodes.
The war games is 10 episodes in length I don't like the idea to cut most of the story
Yeah but how much of that is actually needed 😂
It is a lot to cut. We’ll have to wait and see if they pull it off
Best thing to do is treat these cut down colourised versions as people do remastered games. The original version is the canonical version but this is a fun, updated way to get new people engaged with the old content and provides a new experience for old viewers.
Also a good thing this will do is plug a hole in a way Series 6B fans can ignore, while also making sure we DON’T GET ANOTHER BLOODY RETRO ACTIVE INCARNATION SHOVED IN!
Oh, you didn’t see 8 regenerates into 9? Well instead of giving you that here’s The War Doctor you didn’t know you didn’t want until we crammed him in to make The Time War pointless.
Didn’t see the 1st Doctor literally being born and every moment of his life until we meet him in the junkyard? Well, here’s a countless number of incarnations and the most insulting, lazy answer to the Question Doctor Who…
Also Richard E Grant is in their now as well somehow, somewhere, Why? Shut up that’s why.
You don’t like War Doctor? John Hurt is great!
Until otherwise confirmed, I’m just assuming the Richard Grant face was Rouge’s machine getting confused by TGI’s entering the doctor’s timestream. More or less a fluke or glitch, that maybe 15 didn’t even notice.
@@CulturePhilter I think John Hurt could actively decide to give a bad performance and still walk away with a BAFTA its not him I have a problem with, its the concept and execution of the War Doctor on a writing, design and character level that really doesn’t work and the story of the 50th as a whloe that was supposed to be a celebration of Doctor Who but really just under cut and cheapened the whole RTD1 era and started the destabilization of the show as a whole. John Hurt did the best he could with what he was given but it should have been Paul Mcgann.
@@TurtleDudeProd I hope people think it’s the Shalka Doctor being canonized but its actually TGI still hiding in and manipulating The Doctors timeline. Notice how all these retroactive Doctors and old face new number incarnations only started after Name of the Doctor. Heres hoping he gets expelled once and for all and takes all that stuff with him.
@@iamtheecho see I’d say the 50th is the most successful anniversary special the show has had (although the 3 doctors gives it a good run for its money).
I love 5 doctors for its call-backs, retuning characters etc as much as the next fan but it’s not a good well paced story. And that really should come first.
I think 50th did a good balance. It acknologed the history of the whole show (all the doctors Saving Gallifrey at the end) but knew that if you tried to make them ALL a bigger part of the plot it wouldn’t be a good well structured story.
As for War Doctor. I would have gone with Paul before hand too but what we got worked really well so worked out in the end.
The flashbacks to scenes earlier in the story ruined the Daleks for me as did the stupid music.
I did think they were a bit pointless and unnecessary… but I could live with them.
essentially.......it's all good. Happy Doctor Who Day!
Happy Doctor Who Day to you too! 🙂
The only canon in my eyes is what is broacast on televison, so to me its the regeneration we missed at the end of the War games.
Sure but there is stuff on TV that has two after The War Games as well (The Five Doctor and The Two Doctors)
I say link it to Jo Martins doctor.. connect the gap and make it so the first doctor is technically still the first doctor:)
That would be great…. But I won’t be holding out hope that they put anything Fugitive Doctor on screen in this.
Related question: how can original FX and new CGI both be canon? Easy answer: one is, one isn't. Same with this regeneration scene.
(Am I the only person feeling for the poor makers of fan film Devious, a serial that's been decades in the making, that includes Jon Pertwee's final performance as the Doctor, and which also needs this explicit regeneration not to exist?)
Well in this instance we never actually saw the regeneration in the original. So in that sense there won’t be two versions.
The biggest issue with the Dalek one was the constant flashback to scenes which were shown less than 10mins before - defo for the TikTok brain generation.
Yes that was an odd choice considering most problem would be watching the thing in one sitting
I feel like Shada is next on the cards
If I could post gifs in these comments this would absolutely be that old woman going “what? Another one!?”
(If you’re not British you may not know that, it originates from a news programme asking people on street about a general election)
Dear God no there is enough Shada out there 😂.
I'm glad we have a regeneration cause it doesnt mean 6b didn't happen and it'll mean no more of people keep staying Fugitive between 2 and 3 when she's an unbound Doctor from another universe
To me her being between 2 and 3 makes the most sense. Explains the police box TARDIS and keeps the impact of it being a past forgotten regen of 13 in those stories.
@@CulturePhilterSorry but that doesn't make any sense cause that doesn't match the 12 limit of regen cycle. Plus that just copying the war doctor even more than she already has.
Also Big Finish already hinted that she's from another universe
@@vortexalliance9938 - we know Timelords can grant extra regens. So to more effectively hide this incarnation from the Doctor himself they could have granted one extra regeneration.
@@CulturePhilter That be a bit weird just to give only 1 extra regen(we don't even know if they can just give 1)but anyway like I said Big Finish in the new audio with Fugitive hinted she's from another universe so with that hint and us seeing 2 regen now I'd say that theory is debunked
@ Is this the Once and Future coda? I’ve got it but haven’t listened yet. Will have to give it a listen and see what I think.
Another butchered crayola mess.
Did you not like the colourised ‘The Daleks?’
No they butchered that too
@@RicStorm616 I quite liked it other than the escape scene music.
Imagine if they stitch the footage from Devious into the end of this edit! Over all I am itching on getting this on physical release as it will probably have the original war games episodes as well, and i'll actually be able to get it for less than 100 bucks!
Is that how much the DVD costs where you live? I just looked on Amazon and it’s £7.99 here.
@CulturePhilter for the remaining region 1 copies yes. The scalpers has taken them all.
I’m holding out for a colourisation of Enemy of the World, although it’s part of the missing episodes so may have to be partly reshot/found before that can happen. Good start though hopefully they will do more, and more frequently.
"The Enemy of the World" isn't missing. Not any more.
So after Enemy of the World what story would you want colourised next?
@@paulkennedy8701 there’s no excuse then haha
@@CulturePhilter Tomb of the Cybermen or Wheel in space. They should just do all of Patrick Troughton!!
@@CulturePhilternone if they are going to keep butchering the episodes sorta wish I hadn't even seen this video at this point
6B has never been anything more than fans trying to explain patterns in things that aren't there. It's far more logical, my dear Zoe, to believe that this took place Pre The War Games, and Jamie simply forgot this encounter (he was heavily traumatised after all), than to shoe-horn 6B into existence.
My only gripe with the colorisation is the use of the modern regeneration effect, that we also saw in Twice Upon a Time... That gives me the -
The lines between 5 Doctors and fake Jamie and Zoe definitely place that 2nd Doctor after War Games though.
@@CulturePhilter Ah yes, there is that. :) My own head canon as a kid was that the Doctors basically got to do what we later saw 10 do before he regenerated - have a bit of a meander on their own... But of course, that doesn't make sense.
For anyone freaking out about this change. This doesn't replace the original in the timeline so season 6B if you accept it still exists. Keep calm this is just an alternative edit not a full on replacement.
I guess it depends on how you look at it. I don’t view the Daleks cutdown as replacing the original but also don’t think it has to sit in its own continuity. It’s just a version that’s showing us some of the events but not as much as the original showed us. I imagine all the other scenes still happening in the continuity of the colourisations, they just happen off screen.
It should be left alone this is just another thing to butcher history.
I take it you weren’t a fan of the Daleks colourisation then?
Presumably Russell thinks the older Troughton is the bigenerated version and there are at least 2 timelines for each doctor now
But bi generation as show on screen doesn’t create timelines. Both doctor’s exist in same timeline and know the other is out there.
True. Though whether RTD thinks these things through that far is a moot point!
@@danielknibb3458 I think he says stuff he’s thought of on the spot in interviews without thinking it through. Does it quite a lot in fact.
How do we know this regeneration is not going to be another Bi regeneration 😂
@ well the Doctor seemed to think it was a myth in The Giggle, which he wouldn’t if it had already happened to him before.
Cant change the lore if the thing isn't canon, the original version will always trump it.
Doctor Who doesn’t really have an “official canon”
@@CulturePhilter So it doesn't matter what they do. It's all apocrypha.
What if Ruth Dr is 2B and she regenerates into 3?
That’s what my head-canon has been but it doesn’t sound like that’s what they are going to show
I really wish they’d stop using that cheesy statement about “appealing to a modern audience” as the rationale for chopping out giant chunks of these stories for a colourisation exercises. We live in an age of people bingeing entire seasons of 10 x 45-60 minute episodes in one or two sittings. Can it really be so ‘under-paced’ as to warrant removal of the best part of six and a half episodes of the original content?
After credits and recaps are edited out there is about 3 and a half hours left, so they are chopping out about 2 hours. It can be done satisfactorily, but it will change the feel of the story. IMHO I can't see any point in editing it, or even colourising it, I'd rather it was just left as it is.
@@AshleyReynolds-vc6ly I tend to agree. The colourisation is kinda fun but kinda pointless at the same time. I can’t help but question who it’s being done for. I mean who, *really*? Most young folks these days can’t stay far enough away from black and white, so why not colourise all ten episodes? Nice and colourful and still shorter than the average binged series. Oh yeah, that’s right… it would cost a shed load of money! The real reason for chopping half of it out, maybe? 😜
Yes people binge 10 ep Netflix series but those episodes are still paced very differently to 60s Doctor Who.
Look, I’ve binged 3 serials of 60s Who in a day before on multiple occasions. I’m fine with it, but I can also see the place for these cut-down reversions as an alternative.
Im always up for these modern takes on black and white. Its exciting to see this treatment. These are companion treatments and not replacements. I want to see the regen scene to see how the Bbc handle it.
Yea it’s important to remember these situations alongside the black and white eps, not replacing
They'll probably cut it out 🤣 taking a 10 episode story and cutting down to 90 minutes seems like a complete insult to the fans and people who made the episodes so I won't be supporting this thought I wanted colour who but not like this 💀
@@Budbrothers420Said no-one with a brain ever.
Leave em Alone 😡 ....... Classic Black & White !!!!!
Stop messing with them
The black and white ones will still exist and still available on streaming and to buy. This doesn’t take that away from you
@CulturePhilter Not me personally , the Fact of the Matter
@@CulturePhiltersorta does as I wanted to see the full thing in colour like the music and chopping in the Daleks alone showed us why it doesn't work but they are still doing it 🤯 the war games is the worst episode they could of done this to
@@Budbrothers420 but the original version still exists. So how does this take that away from anyone?
@@Budbrothers420 the problem is, these short versions are giving people the wrong impression of what happened in the story, actors who were in certain episodes may find their appearances removed completely and I seriously doubt if new Who fans are only interested in edited versions of classic stories that it will encourage them to watch classic Who.
Since Jo Martin appeared on our screens, I've been assuming the timeline went thus: the second Doctor gets co-opted by the CIA and is pressured into embarking on missions for them (including "The Two Doctors"), one of which must have been excessively hazardous and resulted in a regeneration into Jo Martin's Doctor, who presumably gets increasingly stubborn and unco-operative, so that the CIA gets exasperated and forces another regeneration into Jon Pertwee's Doctor, who is exiled to Earth rather than executed because he might possibly be useful in some as-yet-unknown scenario. Is this how canon looks to be playing out, or have I missed something?
That’s pretty much been my head-canon too. Explains fugitive calling themselves The Doctor AND the police box TARDIS.
I don't think canon has been playing out that way, but it is also the sequence of events that I prefer!
weeeeeeeell actually i have an even worse idea ! i mean they already decannonized William Hartnell as the First doctor and Christopher Eccleston as 9th Doctor so i am thinking there gonna decannonize john pertwee as 3rd Doctor making a new doctor or some Crap like that ! i don't think it's what fans think ! the series 6 B decannonized but rather the 3rd Doctor will be is my theroy ............ so they can make another series based on Classic who ! aka ( milk classic who for all it's worth ) a new Classic Doctor would indeed do that .
I don’t really care about the numbering. People don’t call 9 anything other than 9. Even officially.
And I actually am a supporter of the theory that Fugitive Doctor fits between 2 and 3.
@@CulturePhilter sadly though in a comic adaptation it is stated that Fugitive Doctor comes before the first ! although it would be a better fit for her comming in between 2 and 3 like ya said .
The 2nd Doctor being taken out of his timeline in The Three Doctors would have rewritten his past, no?
In what way??
@CulturePhilter Well he wouldn't have been on the run from the Time Lords in the War Games for one, as that would have been changed. So 6B doesn't have to be a theory, his past has been altered .
No I'm keeping my money and watch my doctor who war games in black and white you know what you can do with the new colorized version stick it where the sun doesn't shine
Sure, you have that choice. I chose to watch both. In fact I’m going to watch original over next week and then colourisation when it comes out so can compare better.
I found the Daleks almost unwatchable. Music, cutting and dialogue drowned out by music etc Hope this is better, but should have kept original music and cut. Like seeing it in colour though,
I don’t mind new music for the most part (although as I said in the video the escape music was too silly) but the mix needs a better balance between music and dialogue.
I must admit I'm quite excited by the change (I saw the war games for the first time last year) and while I understand people might prefer not to change it, like the colourised version itself, the old version isn't going anywhere.
True. It’s not.
I'll give the regeneration sequence a chance lmao - I've already got The War Games in B&W - I don't mind a different regeneration sequence - the world is messed up enough to get my knickers in a knot over it. Looks great.
Yeah, this isn’t replacing anything. It sits alongside it.
What Bad Wolf Says: "We want to move things forward"
What Bad Wolf does: "Let's plunder the past, make it as ADHD for the Gen Z plebs and piss off the old fans by inserting our nonsesne that drove everyone away in it."
Leave. it. alone.
Please don’t use ADHD as an insult.
@ I have ADHD. And, it’s not meant as an insult, it’s how I think they see their audience. It is THEM that patronise.
You’re a known deranged imbecile. You really think intelligent people care what you say‽
@DrWhoFanJ nasty, but typical of new Who fans. Those in glass houses....
@@Farsight-nc1ib I didn’t see it, so either it’s deleted or I’m blocked. You can’t say anything these days without someone losing their mind over it. I have an opinion, I’m going to express it.
Brilliant that they’ve colourised it but cutting it down to a 90 min serial is just as insulting as what they did to the daleks story, if u can’t except the story line for what it always has been why bother watching it in the first place
I don’t think the Daleks one really lost anything story wise though, most it was bits that dragged on like traversing large areas which work better just knowing it happened rather than seeing every slow bit of it.
I probably can't comment on this as I'm not too familiar with 2nd and 3rd Doctors. But to me, not being able to see the 3rd Doctor's origin is incredibly frustrating, almost disrespectful to the character. There's no logical or dramatic reason not to show it. (continued in my comments below...)
(1/3) Now it wasn't so bad with the 9th Doctor, because that was after a LONG break, and we were seeing things through Rose's eyes and he was a mysterious stranger, so it felt natural that the HUMANS would be the protagonists, because the Doctor had been away so long.
(2/3) However, when Pertwee first falls out of the TARDIS, he's very much the protagonist. Audiences had been following his adventures for years. To me, omitting the regeneration was a terrible mistake, which I absolutely welcome the rectification of.
(3/3) By saying this, I'm not saying I don't care about novel and audio canon, but to me, that is a _secondary_ (optional) canon. The actual TV show should always take priority, because this is the primary franchise, and needs to be enjoyable (and understandable) when viewed in isolation.
(Sorry to split my comment into 4 but Google wouldn't let me post it otherwise)
I don’t know the history of the casting. It’s possible Pertwee wasn’t cast when they filmed the War Games.
@@CulturePhilter Oh, that's interesting. that would be quite unthinkable these days.
250 minutes trimmed down to 90? the daleks kept 10 minutes per episode roughly, this isn't even as much as that, gosh this will be breakneck speed. Should be interesting though. I feel like this doesn't neceserily affect canon, just because the cutdown version shows the regeneration on the end doesn't mean that there isn't a gap, they'll be cutting three hours of other stuff out, that stuff is still canon to the broader show, right? So season 6b can similarly still happen, just not be shown.
It is a LOT to cut isn’t it? I should probably try to watch the full version first so I can judge if cut-down works.
And yes you’re right I guess.
Edit out credits and recaps and it is closer to 200-210 minutes. But still a lot to cut to fit into 90.
@@CulturePhilter have you not seen the full thing before? Or do you mean rewatch?
@ I’ve never seen it. There are big chunks of classic who I haven’t quite gotten around to yet. I’ve seen most of 1st, most of 3rd, all of 6, most of 7 but the rest is a bit more scatty.
@@CulturePhilter oh wow, yeah, I definitely recommend checking it out, then. It's pretty long but it's really good, I first saw it way back in 2008ish when I bought the vhs version from a friend at school, so I've seen it many times.
Holmes's explanation was that the Timelords know/knew about the Doctor all along & the Doctor knew the Timelords knew but they were using him to do their dirty work etc...
Sorry, explanation for what?
@CulturePhilter Explanation for how the 2nd Dr was recieving messages & instructions from the Timelords
There are no pre Hartnell Doctors, end of. All there was before him was the Other, and technically they weren't the same person.
Well you don’t have to like it but that is what the show has established 🤷♂️
@CulturePhilter nope, everything post 2017 is not Doctor Who. It needs to be consigned to the dustbin of history, along with RTD. All that drivel is why the show is in the mess it's in.
I had a full autistic meltdown when the t timeless children when I first saw that
@DaveTravelsinTime a terrible idea done for all the wrong reasons
@@Farsight-nc1ib true i agree farsight
Wonder if this means they're working to release the Season 6 Collection box set soon
Possibly. Is anything else on that season still missing/unanimated
Hmmm it's not for me. The mystery was fine.
It's really not just the expanded media. Even the Five Doctors implies that the Doctor has been snatched from his timeline _after_ the Wargames trial because of his comments to the phantom Zoe and Jamie.
Yes of course! Wish I’d remembered that when making the video.
So long Season 6B...
😥
So, it was confirmed on Twitter and TH-cam that the regeneration is being taken from the TH-cam account The Confession Dial. He said that he was asked permission for the use of it by the BBC and made a few alterations for their version of the broadcast. Interesting though, is that the edit on TH-cam features small flashes of events like "The Three Doctors", implying that season 6B might have occurred and that that is, as fan theories suggest, where these stories took place.
I am not putting it past Russell to leave that part of the edit in tact.
On a sidenote, he also hinted that he worked on another project that he can't talk about yet, so the BBC is using him for more than just this edit.
True. I await with baited breath to see what they do 🙂
@@CulturePhilter Iam curious too, it's cool that they are using official fan work, it's a great sign of respect towards the fans.
For me personally im looking forward to it, i did notice the shot of the 2nd doctor regenerating seems to be from a fan creation, if they do something interesting with it i will love it
Yes I heard that too. It’s good that they actively approach fan creators like that to use their stuff.
Ughhhh shite NuWho regeneration magic light 😂 never liked NuWho regeneration. I wonder if they make Troughton back step, turn, arms outstretched que nearly every NuWho regeneration.
I think it’s a good effect when they don’t over do it. Doesn’t need flames shooting out to destroy the TARDIS or Daleks like it has sometimes been used. When it’s used more subtly like in Eccleston to Tennant it’s best.
More worried that they will insert yet another random Doctor and continue with the destruction of the classic series
“Destruction” seems rather hyperbolic
@@CulturePhilternot to me
They will slip in the Fugitive Doctor 😂 you can see it.
@Mark-nh2hs so you think mark troughton will regenerate into Ruth ?
The Confessional Dial version of 2 regenerating, shows a flash of images, and then he's regenerating in the Tardis. If you frame by frame those images that flash by, one image shows an Angel behind 2, another image shows a shot from The 2 Doctors (6b), and then lastly, it shows a shot of the Doctor with a scarecrow behind him. So the new regeneration theyre adding in will uphold continuity, and make 6b and him being taken away by the scarecrows canon.
The Scarecrow thing is ringing a bell but I’m not sure where from.
Maybe they’ll surprise us and they’ll show him go off to do other things then a “much later” scene for him to regenerate after 6b. Or regenerate into the Fugitive doctor. If they’re going to mess with retcons then make it count.
Maybe.
The Fugitive Doctor has always been explicitly pre-Hartnell.
I am happy to see proper regeneration of my favourite Doctor Patrick Troughton - love the look of the new colourised War Games- Clearly a win win.😅😅
For the completists who like to see all regenerations it’ll certainly be good.
It's much the same as the Eighth Doctor into War in NOTD as in it's belated and from a minisode or special, not an actual episode. I like that it's coming from DW themselves and it means I can accept it, or decide not to. Personally I'd love to see Two into Three.
I’m someone who currently like to think Fugitive Doctor fits in between them so I’m not as keen.
They should just be honest and say old Who is crap/problematic and boring. And the only way 'the kids' are going to watch is if you colour it - hack it to bits and slap cgi and make it fit the 'new who style'
If you think that such an approach is going to bring in new fans who will then want to watch the original B&W era - I have a bridge to sell you.
Plenty of people have gotten into the classic series after watching the revival series first. It’s not that different an idea
If you believe spouting such deranged nonsensical gibberish will magically make it become true, then you need your head examined because no functioning braincells could possibly be present there.
I bet the regeneration new scene might be the fan made devious story which Jon pertwee did be for he died
Oh I haven’t heard of that. Is it on TH-cam somewhere?
@CulturePhilter it is, type Doctor who devious, you will find the channel with 5 episodes they uploaded so far
10 part story and it cut down why?
Admittedly it does seem like a LOT to cut. I’ll wait until I see it to pass judgment on if they’ve made it work though.
Cough cough que dramatic loud voice with echo effect applied "It's for the "Modern Audience" 😂
Side notes: While you mention the Second Doctor's appearance in "The Two Doctors", his appearance in "The Five Doctors" also implies the Second Doctor is post-War Games.
Also focusing just on EU stuff, some of the novels written with a post-War Games Second Doctor were written by Terrance Dicks - who was one of the writers of the War Games.
Yes I should have mentioned the 5 doctors too. It’s very clear in his dialogue with fake Jamie and Zoe that it’s post The War Games for him.
okay i always thought this the war lord in war games was an early re gen of the master if u go foreward to the 5 drs the master says believe it or not we where in the academy together go back listen he says welcome to the academy
I know that’s a popular fan theory. I wonder if they’ll do anything in this to further hint at that.
I remember back in the day of classic Who one fan theory was the Master was the Doctors brother or half brother 😂
I personally think that a 6b Jo Martin might work...
Even with this regeneration shown?
One can hope.
Cannon has gone out the window for Doctor Who, it’s the reason I stopped watching, they make changes to suit themselves and don’t care a bit about the lore and haven’t done for ages.
I mean you’re certainly right that the show disregards its own continuing and has done for ages…. It’s been contradicting itself SINCE the 1960s