The reason i Heard that Patrick trougton did not have a visible regeneration Was there was for a short while to end the show but Pertwee was cast and the rest is history. Just because rtd tells you this is how it is now doesn't mean you have to accept it dr who belongs to us not him
What a completely stupid thing to say. Might as well say that everything that came after the unearthly child is not real Dr. Who. As it wasn't written by the first writer or anything after mission to the unknown is not proper Dr. Who as it was the last made by it's first producer and everyone else who came after it ruined it. But I'm sure there are enough mindless morons out there who would agree with this..why don't you all just fuck off and doodle at the back of the shed.
So they regenerate the Second Doctor into Jo Martin and then wipe her memory and erase her memory and dress her in Pat Troughtons outfit and then turn her into Pertwee? (grabs popcorn, awaits the fans arguing on forums for the start of 2025)
For what it's worth, when we asked Terrence Dicks about it at the TimeGate convention, he vehemently stated that the Master was not the War Lord, "and I should know, I created both of them!"
@@akakjb My money is on Heironymous being the Master. After all, he hypnotized Sarah Jane to try and kill the Doctor, and, according to the Third Doctor, only the Master can hypnotize people to kill.
The original The War Games is not only still engaging on it's own, but it's also one of those stories were the runtime is CRUCIAL to the plot. Cutting it down to a measly 90 minutes is criminal and will ruin the plot and experience.
it be funny if when the time lords show the 2nd doctor faces for him to choose and he says oh hes to old no hes to thin its actual doctors weve seen in the show in his future
Yea regens are boring now, part of the excitement of the classic era regens was how they were going to do the fx. In the new era 9/10 was ok and I quite liked 11/12 but all the others have just been “meh”.
All they can do is vandalise the Classic era and continue to borrow from it heavily because modern day show runners are bankrupt of ideas. I don’t wish to see that golden regeneration effect for the second Doctor. It’s bad enough we have it in new Who without any variation on the effect. The War Games cut down to 90 minutes is stupid. It’s going to be another hot mess. RTD obviously thinks young people can’t cope with long stories or black & white. Does he think younger audiences have low attention spans? It’s sad that Doctor Who today has loads of time and cash thrown at it and yet fails to get good writing, whereas Classic Who made on low budgets has the best writing and RTD feels the need to meddle! RTD hates people altering his work but is more than happy to tamper with others!
@@PaulRichards-vz4pl The old ones are still there... These are additional.. and optional. Rob their legacy? A little hyperbolic, wouldn't you say? They are not for you. What you want still exists. I love JRR Tolkiens Books... And I love Peter Jacksons movies. They are not the same. Many things different. I can separate the 2 and appreciate them for what each of them are. The same thing applies here. I still do not see your point. ...and I like the regeneration effects! We all have our own opinions and neither of us are wrong.
@@valuevinyl110 Well I believe it shows a lack of awareness on RTD’s behalf. He says that people shouldn’t alter his works and he’s against tampering of someone’s creative genius and yet he’s willing to do the opposite. The hypocrisy here is off the scale. Yes of course we still have the original (for now) to watch but there are many past BBC TV shows that have been edited for fear of offending. I’m against censorship and rewriting history.
The second Doctor uses the sonic screwdriver and the Fugitive Doctor doesn’t know what a sonic screwdriver is. It ain’t gonna happen. She’s pre Hartnell, and that’s it. Also the War Lord and War Chief are separate characters. The Chief is a Time Lord. The War Lord isn’t a Time Lord. It was alluded in the old Target Terror of the Autons that the Chief and the Master were one and the same. But it’s not a popular theory. I’ll bet my fez they use other Doctors in the bit where the Time Lords show other potential incarnations.
fugitive doctor does know what a sonic screwdriver is, just doesn't recognise 13s. in response to 13 stating that fugitive has to be in the past becasue she doesn't recognise the sonic screwdriver fugitive replies "smart enough not to need one" in addition screwdrivers are referred to as gallifreyan technoogy multiple times. its more likely that fugitive simply didn't recognise tha version of the screwdriver
@@utopic777 When the Fugitive Doctor said that she was smart enough not to need a Sonic Screwdriver, it wasn’t because she knew what it was, but because she’d seen the Doctor use it multiple times when she was Ruth, so was able to figure out its function. I don’t think that line that she didn’t recognise a sonic screwdriver would’ve been put into the script if she did recognise it, as it’s supposed to be emphasising that this Doctor predates the Sonic Screwdriver.
@@Jamezevans123it doesn't matter if Jo Martin's Doctor knows what a sonic screwdriver is or not. If she doesn't, it could be because she has had her memory wiped. That's kind of the point of all the mixed messages of her presentation, that we just don't know, the modern Doctor doesn't know. Is she pre-Hartnell? Is she Season 6B? Is she the Doctor's future? Any answer can be justified, and every answer has issues. And, personally, I really don't like that ambiguity, but it was clearly put there intentionally, and I doubt it will ever be resolved. So in that sense, @KingofPotatoPeople is likely right, and whether or not we see Jo Martin again, we will probably not get confirmation that she is in 6B. However, it still may be that we will see some confirmation that there *is* a 6B.
I've always thought that the Monk was an early incarnation of the Master. Also, I love the old Target novelizations! I have the entire collection from An Unearthly Child right through Logopolis! By the time I got that far the books were out of print, but now that they are back I'll have to start up again with Castrovalva!! 👏👏👏👏👍
For some reason the colourised daleks episode won't allow you to disable both sign language and subtitles your have to watch with either one or the other,hope they don't do that with the colourised war games...
The Timelord War Chief (Mister Meeker in RentaGhost) is who I think you meant to be a possible version of the Master. The War Lord was his boss (Philip Madoc). As for Doctor Who Day its not such a bad title. Alternatively it could be Desperately Seeking Susan Day or simply TARDIS day.
Apparently Sean Pertwee was doing some work in wales last year many including myself believed this was for the 60th Anniversary but I suspect they use Sean pertwee for the transition between the 2nd doctor and the 3rd
I'm not against the colorization or even cutting it down but 90 minutes?! This has potential to show every bad way classic WHO is different from current WHO.
i am fine with troughton regenerating into jo martin. I am not fine with the regeneration being done in a way that makes season 6b impossible. The ConfessionDial's version includes a brief flashforward of troughton's scenes in the Three Doctors, Five Doctors, and Two Doctors. Hopefully they wont cut it out, or better yet they will improve on the scene
Even if they cut the explicit showcases of Season 6B, Season 6B is basically canon already. All Second Doctor adventures in 6B either take place during the trial or before he’s placed in the TARDIS to regenerate. Even if they were to show the Doctor walking into the TARDIS, 6B would still be canon.
To be fair, Malcolm Hulke, one of the writers of the story, hacked 10 episodes down into a 100 page novella, so it's hardly unprecedented when it comes to The War Games :D
If I had a nickel for every time an official Doctor Who product reused a fan project about the second doctor's regeneration I'd have two nickels but it's weird that it's happened twice. The other time was the Big Finish audio Zagreus reusing audio of Jon Pertwee originally from the fan film Doctor Who: Devious.
A lot of Classic Doctor Who has a lot of toing and froing or things that don't affect the plot and make the story longer than it needs to be. 60s Doctor Who especially was drawn out. I feel The Daleks 75 minute cut down from a 7 parter works but for The War Games a 90 minute cut down from a 10 parter might not work as well but that remains to be seen. Although this is one of the stories that has a lot of toing and froing that I feel work for this story.
To long... i watched the entire doc who series. ALL black and white stories even the still frames ones with only sound. Why... because i'm nuts and i want to see everything.
Years ago I would be so against this idea but now I don’t really care, i’d rather not have Fugitive between 2 and 3 but if that’s what they do, i’d deal with it, explain it well enough I suppose but overall, why not, have memory wipes and given an extra regeneration to cover, I mean I highly doubt they would do it as it even says the regeneration into the 3rd Doctor Jon Pertwee, Bigenaration? Maybe but again I doubt it, I think it will be more or less like the fan version
The trim from like... 10 episodes down to 90 minutes is going to be wild, but I for one genuinely welcome it. A 10 parts long episode is just way too long. And since a good chunk of it has been lost to time... It's probably for the best to trim it anyway! I have, however, mixed feelings regarding this "brand new regeneration sequence". While giving visibility (and money) to fans and their works is pretty damn great to see. The Confession Dial has been making some truly astounding work (absolutely love their work on the 6th Doctor regeneration). BUT, the 2nd Doctor regeneration being extra creepy and eerie and mysterious and downright scary (to me maybe) was/is a pretty important thing IMO. And seeing the standard "golden energy" from New Who is rather distateful I think. Not that it isn't well-made, but more like, I really liked the different design and aspect regeneration could take in Classic Who. Not to mention, having 2 regenerate into 3 right after The War Games would be hell, cause they have dozens of stories set AFTER The War Games, both in TV, novels, comics and audio... I think I'll stick with the superior version of the 2nd Doctor's regeneration: the one seen in Devious.
There was a regeneration scene in a fan story called Devious featuring an intermediatary version of the Doctor in between the second and third incarnation that Jon Pertwee actually filmed (the footage is on youtube as well as the War Games DVD). I wonder if it will end up in this new version of the War Games?
I’m just hoping that we in America will get a Blu-ray release of this with the original War Games as well because the original DVD of the War games is $100!
I'm suspicious of taking the serials and editing them into one feature for one reason. My first experience with Doctor Who was a PBS showing of a Tom Baker story that was shown as a long episode instead of the individual episodes, and it made that sense that it was too long even more than when it's broken up by the cliffhangers. I'm sure they've cut these down some, but we watched a few old stories that were easily 2 episodes of story max that were stretched to fit 4 or 5 episodes. That's a lot to cut. We did make it through all of War Games though. :P
Maybe they'll also force the War Master to regenerate into Delgado before being thrown into the prison they escape from right before TERROR OF THE AUTONS.
I don't think so since the War Master came long after Delgado as proven in "Utopia" when we heard echoes of previous Masters when he was holding the watch.
@@joshuajoshua2732 Different War Master. The person behind all of the time stuff in War Games is called the War Master. That's why it has long been speculated that he's actually the person we came to know as the Master. In the first episode of Pertwee's second series, part one of Terror of the Autons, a Time Lord shows up to warn the Doctor that the Master has escaped from imprisonment on Gallifrey. So it would definitely work to regenerate the War Master from "War Games" into the Delgado Master.
I prefer the Fugtive Doctor to be a future version i hate when they mess with history and established past storylines it's totally unnecessary this is why fans should never showrun for Doctor Who.
As I had a Saturday job when this was first show I never actually SAW it, but my parents recorded it on my Reel to Reel tape recorder, over writing every week I only kept the last episode. I also write out the dialogue by hand every week (hows that for dedication) , so this is the story I remember best of the Troughton era. I did have a bit of a "thing" for Wendy at the time. However I believe the story was written to fill the space of two or more stories that fell through so a bit of the padding/repetition being removed could improve it.
As long as RTD2 tightens up the story to something like 2-2.5 hours it’ll be easier to digest than the weekend I spent trudging through 6 hours of incomplete and repetitive film 🎥 footage. Jo Martin (the Exiled Doctor) would fit in as well as the late William Hurt did as the War Doctor.
I will have to get this dvd when it comes out, and this story really IMO should have been made and shown in six parts like the Invasion was originally intended to be made and shown and the Invasion and the War Games would have been better served in six or even five parts.
The War Games is one of my all time favourites. I would like to see the full serial including the lost footage being given a colourised update, and I would also like to see this new material added to an updated black and white version too!!!
Jo Martin was a great Doctor, should of just casted her as 13,14 or 15, but she has no business being in Classic Who. The massive retcon was enough. We don't need retroactive footage of her in the past
People really need to realise that Fugitive isn't in-between 2 and 3 or pre Hartnell. Her backstory is too messed up that it only makes sense for her to be a unbound Doctor from another universe and hopefully this new 2nd Doctor regen does that.
THANK YOU!! Yes, finally someone else gets it. Ruth as “Pre-Hartnell” doesn’t make sense, but thinking she’s the “original” Third Doctor is complete and utter shite.
@@skinner219 Yeah it just feels like she trying to steal/take away from the 1st or 2nd Doctors with either option. It like they are ripping off the war doctor but not bothering to have her make sense
I know people use the Fugitive Doctor’s TARDIS being stuck as a Police Box as proof that she can’t be Pre-Hartnell because it was in An Unearthly Child that the TARDIS became stuck as that, but you have to remember that the TARDIS is a sentient time/space machine who can archive console rooms that the Doctor hasn’t even had yet, said by the TARDIS herself in The Doctor’s Wife. So if the TARDIS the Pre-Hartnell Doctors used is the one that Hartnell stole from the repair shop, then as it’s the same TARDIS, it could look into her own future and see that it becomes stuck as a Police Box in An Unearthly Child. As the past and future collide in Fugitive of the Judoon, what makes a lot of sense is that when the Fugitive Doctor went on the run from Division, the TARDIS deliberately brought her to Earth so that the 13th Doctor could meet her, and deliberately disguised herself as her future disguise the Police Box so that when the 13th Doctor dug her up outside of the Lighthouse, she’d instantly know that it was her own TARDIS, meaning Ruth was her.
@skinner219 sure, she would the third doctor but it's the same thing with the war doctor. He doesn't have a number, and the doctors that came after him didn't change their numbers
I'm excited about this. I just hope they don't ruin it... just had a thought, all this talk of what they are doing with the Doctor's regeneration in this, I wonder, speculatively, if they'll add a regeneration scene for the War Chief... perhaps having him regenerate into the Delgado incarnation of the Master..?
Classic Who was fine the way it was. New Who wasn't really needed but it was done well enough because it didn't undo the established classic lore. Technically the exact point where the series should have ended was when Matt Smith's 12th Doctor was at the end of his regenerations of 13 total. Since they had inserted the War Doctor played excellently by Sir John Hurt,Matt Smith's 12th Doctor was in fact the 13th and final regeneration. There were only two legitimate options. The first was for The Doctor to finally die and not inject the whole Clara Oswald begging the Time Locked Time Lords from the Time War to extend his lifespan. It already had been established that The Doctor had only 13 regenerations. They should have just ended the show there. The second option would have been to go down the route of The Master who extended his life by stealing the lives of others and in essence make The Doctor fulfill his fate of becoming evil just like the Valyard version of him in the 6th Doctor episodes that showed him inevitably becoming evil. Of course given his selfless nature this one wouldn't be accepted so by default the first would have been the only true option. By going beyond the established length of regenerations that had been established for The Doctor in the franchise it opened up the Proverbial Pandora's Box. Since the "change" wasn't rejected it gave the BBC permission to change more and more until you reach the DEI Woke Agenda Era. Personally I pick the cut off of the series as the specific episode I mentioned above. Everything after that was no longer Legitimate Doctor Who in my eyes. Stopped watching after that because I knew what would come to pass and it has. A once grand show ruined first by corporate greed to keep it going and then deformed to a shameful shadow of itself in the present day because of people who need a platform to spew their opinions as fact and truth instead of going out to the corners of streets with megaphones to spew their messages there because they know no one would listen or care about them or their "sacred" message.
I'm all for it if they want to colourize the black and white era, we'll have them as an alternative and a new generation can appreciate the older stories. But, I don't think it should look unnaturally over saturated like how the Daleks came out. It looks like someone took a blue highlighter and coloured it in. There was another colourization here on youtube that looks more natural, closer to what season 7 looks like. Not sure why they didn't make it look more like that.
I kind of hope that they don’t do the fugitive doctor because it was maid clear she was a pre Hartnell doctor. Also she was depicted as being tough and immoral which Patrick and John never were.it makes no sense
It's seem not right for fugitive doctor to come between 2th and 3th doctor but they could have pop her in later on when Chris regenerates. Why mess with old storylines. That will be so confusing to some fans.
If Patrick Troughton is regenerated into the Fugitive Doctor, I wont buy did. As a lifelong Dr Who fan, I'm exactly the market for this product, but retconning pivotal classic stories is a hard pass.
Why would you buy it anyway? I don't think you are the market (sotto voce: I don't know what the market is...). I think the market is the remedial class for the next generation of Doctor Who fans. It is already assuming they have a short attention span, they don't like black and white, they are uncomfortable with ambiguity or the unfamiliar, long words bother them - they prefer "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" to "Blinovitch Limitation Effect" and "fam" to "companions".
@@markpostgate2551 I know I'm exactly the market for this product because I have purchased ALL the other media in this range... but if these releases of classic Who start editing in retcons rather than restorations, I will stop buying them.
The War Lord is not the Master, it's a different character. "Additional Material" yet cutting 160 minutes from the original. They should concentrate on the new series making sense and having a logical narrative rather than taking a hachet to classic stories.
The expanded universe for decades has separated the War Chief from the Master. I don't think conflating the 2 is all that interesting an idea. I like the idea of More Renegades, not Less. In a similar vein I kinda don't like them locking down the regeneration to eliminate all the 6B stuff/speculation. That's part of the fun and the copium to explain Fugitive Doctor. Setting it in stone... well I guess the original is still the stone, but you know what I mean. Curtails imagination, the canvas no studio could ever outdo.
The Jo Martin Doctor is pre-Hartnell. Give it up on the post Troughton Doctor. It's a desperate fan attempt to explain her TARDIS, whereas every part of the narratives she's been involved in show she worked for the Time Lords before the Doctor left Gallifrey.
Not sure what you mean by 'get it.' I don't, Butchering a series because the newer generation have a attention span of a gnat' I don't get. Sure it will be fun, but never a replacement. 'Tomb of the Cybermen' would had been a better choice, if they really felt it necessary to edit down.
Tomb of the Cybermen actually has more "filler" than The War Games does. I seem to remember that hibernation control lever going backwards and forwards a lot in Tomb. More times than are necessary to convey that the Doctor wants that lever kept to the left and the other guy wants it kept to the right (or was it the other way around?). The War Games, for all its length, doesn't seem static to me at any point; it actually feels quite pacy.
That's kind of ashame you didn't finish it because "The War Games" is considered one of the most epic Dr. Who serials of all time and i think youv'e missed out on some good stuff here this new vandalised version by Russell Toyboy Davis is not going to give you that. I'm also going to tell you straight away because this is starting to get very annoying you need to get your facts right The War Chief and The War Lord are not The Master ok they are completely seperate characters even Terence Dicks confirmed that in old interviews many times the War Chief is an entirely different Time Lord and the War Lord is from another race as it was stated in the end of the serial this is why i never like to be involve with theorises because it causes mixed messaging and it gives people the wrong idea.
It seems to me it is an attempt to decanonise season 6b. If that line in Space Babies that confused everyone about how long Ruby had actually been travelling was actually there to explain why Sarah believes she is from the Eighties, hence decanonising one entire version of the UNIT dating controversy (something that hasn't actually been debated in a fan forum for over twenty years!) and shipping Rose and "The Doctor Dances" was all about "pwning the incels" regarding the Grace Holloway kiss (although of course they weren't called "incels" back then; just "virgins" before the insult and insinuation became political! 😂 ) then clearly this is another swaggering demonstration of "hobbyking" dominance, this time against the season 6b-ers. It's another opportunity for RTD to baffle the not-we with a megalomaniacal declaration of "I get to decide what is canon now, mwahahahahaha." Clearly just the next on his tick list of "fan factions I don't like"!
@Paul-gh6ng Season 6b was a fan theory basically devised to fix apparent continuity errors in The Two Doctors and The Five Doctors, but gained such widespread approval as an elegant solution that it became "confirmed" in a number of non-televisual media stories including one novel, and I think one Big Finish as well (someone more cognisent of extra-media content than myself may confirm, correct or clarify). So in a sense it wouldn't be decanonising The Two Doctors but reproblemitising it by erasing the perfect solution that had already been devised.
@@markpostgate2551 More than one Big Finish, they’re doing Season 6B with the ‘Second Doctor Adventures.’ It’s also literally confirmed in The Five Doctors when he sees Jamie and Zoe and states the Time Lords wiped their memories when they sent them back. So, that’s clearly AFTER the War Games. 6B isn’t just a theory.
@khodges5497 Hold on, Season 6b didn't exist as a concept when The Five Doctors was written or aired; in fact the first attempt at head canon within the fan community was "when a time lord is taken out of his time stream he recalls every event up up until his regeneration" which is patently absurd, but it was suggested it also explained how the third doctor could be aware that his fourth incarnation would be "all teeth and curls". And even after The Two Doctors it was considered that the writers had screwed up continuity, rather than there being an in universe explanation. I think you are ret-conning the history of the show itself by believing that we knew then what we know now. In fact, I would say that the season 6b theory only came in vogue during the wilderness years. But I am sure Big Finish did reify it; it was a compelling theory that explained a lot of oddities and loose ends. There were still fans that didn't like it, and it was never confirmed in the televisual media (and anything not confirmed in the televisual media is not hard canon in the sense that the writers for the tv show will not hesitate to contradict it, for example, far from canonozing DWW's comic strip The Star Beast, the episode of the same title does the opposite, by showing us more or less the same events happening to the 14th Doctor and Donna rather than the 4th Doctor, with Rose Noble replacing first black Doctor Who companion Sharon, it actually makes it inescapably clear that the comic strip didn't happen to the televisual Doctor at all. And there always were degrees of canonicity; no one ever believed, seriously, that the Prime computer adverts were canon, or that 1975's August edition of Disney Time was canon... even though it seamlessly synchs up with Terror of the Zygons the following week. I think if a detail hasn't been confirmed on screen in the tv show I think any writer for the tv show would consider that detail disposable. As is the case here; if we are being shown the 2nd Doctor regenerating into the 3rd Doctor at the trial we are clearly being informed that the creators of this piece of media does not consider the season 6b retcon to be worthy of preservation which will be controversial and will ruffle feathers in a way that the not-we will not be able to understand. Season 6b theory was designed to explain The Five Doctors, The Five Doctors was not written to confirm Season 6b. The puddle is indeed in the shape of the indentation containing the puddle, but that doesn't mean that the puddle came first!
Looking forward to this, and hope they have a more sympathetic soundtrack than the weird choice of cringy music in one of last year's action scenes. If it's done subtly, the music should enhance a scene, not stick out like a sore thumb. As you said this is an additional choice for fans to experience the story, but it may screw up the continuity of intervening stories which can capitalise on the unseen regeneration, and allow the 2nd, and potentially even the 3rd Doctor who may have a new face for some time, but just doesn't get to see it in a mirror until the televised scene, and has further adventures before finally appearing falling out of the Tardis.
You are to young to even seen the 1970s to the 1980s also the deleted scenes that U claim that deleted they weren't I remember those seeing them on tv way back in those days of doctor who so I don't know what U r on about
So, Chibnall does Timeless Child, which was already established in Lungbarrow in the 80s and hinted at several times in the show, and the "fans" rage, but Russel retcons the ENTIRE SHOW to force bigeneration on every Doctor, and those same so-called fans love it? Wtf am I missing here? Just wow.
@@ZiemakAttackhonestly, I believe RTD hasn't told the whole story on that. I believe that every bigeneration resulted in a separate timeline where every Doctor just woke up with the same old face, wondering why they regenerated into themselves. This is essentially what I get from the Seventh Doctor speech to Ace in Tales from the TARDIS. These timelines are still connected via the Memory TARDIS in the main timeline, of course, which makes it possible for the elderly alternate Six and Seven to interact with Peri and Ace respectively.
@@alessandroarsuffi9227 Hmm, that might be the best way to reconcile all of the extended universe stories. I just wish it wasn’t so complicated. But I guess this is Doctor Who we’re talking about
I look forward to seeing the remastered version of the War Games. However, I won't bother with anything after Peter Capaldi whose series marked the end of this series which "remastered" itself into yet another boring, gangrenous BBC-DEIsney Woke-Wank Mov megaphone blaring "Da message" as it's primary (usually ONLY) priority with any hope of a coherent, interesting story light years behind screaming out "Da Message". I find that Jodie Whittaker "thing" and the Ncuti Gatwa "thing" to be utter frauds, especially the Gatwa "thing" in which he's play out his and RTD's gay fantasies on screen to be nothing but trashy exhibitionism and utter gag-a-maggot DEI swill)
The War Games now feature the regeneration between the 2nd and the 3rd Doctors the 2nd DOES NOT regenerate into the Fugitive Doctor she is from his past not his future get it right just like the Morbius Doctors all in the past Who Culture has videos of this
Your thumbnail is clickbait as this never happened, stop this woke garbage, there never was a black wamen Doctor ok, "oh but here's the lost footage found in a skip in Aberdeen" bull
You can colorize the old black and white episodes, you can up date the special effects ( Day of the Daleks was excellent), but for Christ's sake...don't screw with the cannon of original Who! Don't shoehorn new Doctors between Troughton and Pertwee, especially a DEI character just as a vain attempt to appeal to "modern audiences" which, according to the ratings, aren't watching. RTD is basically giving the middle finger to long time fans because he can't stand it that he's no Terrance Dicks or Robert Holmes.
I've no problem with them updating the regeneration in this version to marry up with the modern day version of it, but I don't like the idea of showing the complete process, as that takes away any of the potential mystery of there being another secret unseen incarnation that the original incomplete Troughton regeneration allowed. And that includes showing Troughton regenerate into anyone else, including the Ruth Doctor or any other new unseen before Doctor for that matter. Of course even if they do show the whole regeneration it begs the question of whether or not that becomes canon over the original, and we all know that the fanbase will be divided on that. I've looked over the fan made Troughon regeneration and love how well done it is, and love Pertwees Doctors reaction when he wakes up. I think if anything that could easily be used for a special updated version of his first episode and serial, but I don't want to see the full regeneration in any one episode in order to both stay true to what happened in the original versions, and leave it open to have someone else show up as inbetwener Doctor - and there's plenty of ways to allow for the Doctor having more than the full 13 "proper" incarnations betwen William Harnell and Matt Smith. I'm a firm beleiver that due to how the War Doctor was made, through drinking a potion made by the Sisters of Kahn, that he's not a regular "proper" incarnation, but an additional one, while Tennants aborted spare hand channeling regeneration does count making 10's face count as two seperate incarnations and keeping Smith as the true 13th and final incarnation. That still allows an extra incarnation betwen 2 and 3 to make up the full 13.
Well, I've said this before. All Chris Chibnall would have had to do is have the Time Lords create multiples from Troughton's forced regeneration scene. There was a part of that scene where he could have done that where there were several versions of the Second Doctor on screen. We followed one splinter, our Third Doctor, and the rest were scattered across space and time to do the Time Lords' dirty work for them that they didn't 'want' to get involved in. Ruth could have been one of those, a sleeper, that they could awaken in an emergency. It would explain why a much older Second Doctor and Jamie appeared in the Two Doctors and his working for the Time Lords and would have explained all the Brain Of Morbius Doctors as telepathic bleed throughs during the mind battle with the Morbius monster. It would also explain the Police Box disguise of Ruth's TARDIS. But, oh no. He had to try and mess about with the beginning and the Hartnell Doctor. If he wanted alternative Doctors, the answer was right there in that Troughton effects sequence. He botched it.
NGL though she kinda has to be. We've seen all the regenerations since Hartnell apart from that one. And as Jo Martin's doctor had the police box TARDIS that means she has to be post Hartnell
@@oliverkerins5628 The Fugitive Doctor being Pre-Hartnell and her TARDIS being stuck as a Police Box isn’t impossible when the TARDIS is a sentient time/space machine who can archive console rooms that the Doctor hasn’t even had yet, said by the TARDIS herself in The Doctor’s Wife. So if the TARDIS the Pre-Hartnell Doctors used is the one that Hartnell stole from the repair shop, that means that the TARDIS would’ve been able to look into its own future and see that it one day becomes stuck as a Police Box. What makes a lot of sense is that when the Fugitive Doctor went on the run from Division, the TARDIS deliberately brought her to Earth so that the 13th Doctor could meet her, and deliberately disguised herself as a Police Box so that when the 13th Doctor dug her up, she’d instantly know that it was her own TARDIS. As it’s too coincidental that the Master teases the Doctor of her forgotten past at the end of Spyfall, then not long after the Doctor bumps into something to do with that forgotten past, the TARDIS being behind those two Doctors meeting makes so much sense.
Why though? The doctor would eventually become the actual 3rd doctor anyway. Besides, they could've gave the doctor any face, including the Fugitive doctor's face before making her Pertwee. I'd rather have Fugitive between 2 and 3 than pre Hartnel
Why can't she just simply be a future Doctor with lost memories why mess up the history when it doesn't need it. It feels disrespectful and a spit in your face to the original creators.
![The LOST 9th Doctor episode you will never see... [DOCTOR WHO SERIES 1 LOST MEDIA BREAKDOWN!]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/9qsN4J_AEFA/mqdefault.jpg)
The reason i Heard that Patrick trougton did not have a visible regeneration Was there was for a short while to end the show but Pertwee was cast and the rest is history. Just because rtd tells you this is how it is now doesn't mean you have to accept it dr who belongs to us not him
What a completely stupid thing to say. Might as well say that everything that came after the unearthly child is not real Dr. Who. As it wasn't written by the first writer or anything after mission to the unknown is not proper Dr. Who as it was the last made by it's first producer and everyone else who came after it ruined it. But I'm sure there are enough mindless morons out there who would agree with this..why don't you all just fuck off and doodle at the back of the shed.
exactly, Pertwee hadn't been cast, in fact the future of the programme was unknown at the time.
@@gwres Yeah. Much like STAR TREK did for RCA in the US, DOCTOR WHO was kept to help launch BBC's colour service.
Look at the thumbnail, they found the lost footage
@@SharreIWright there is no footage of the regeneration, because it was never filmed. The regeneration has been created by a youtuber.
So they regenerate the Second Doctor into Jo Martin and then wipe her memory and erase her memory and dress her in Pat Troughtons outfit and then turn her into Pertwee?
(grabs popcorn, awaits the fans arguing on forums for the start of 2025)
“The controversies that would cause” yeah, and the last thing the BBC would want to do is cause a massive controversy with a major retcon.
Yup.
For what it's worth, when we asked Terrence Dicks about it at the TimeGate convention, he vehemently stated that the Master was not the War Lord, "and I should know, I created both of them!"
Oh yeah, War LORD. We've talked about him being the Master for so long it Mandella Effected my memory!
@@akakjb My money is on Heironymous being the Master. After all, he hypnotized Sarah Jane to try and kill the Doctor, and, according to the Third Doctor, only the Master can hypnotize people to kill.
The original The War Games is not only still engaging on it's own, but it's also one of those stories were the runtime is CRUCIAL to the plot. Cutting it down to a measly 90 minutes is criminal and will ruin the plot and experience.
it be funny if when the time lords show the 2nd doctor faces for him to choose and he says oh hes to old no hes to thin its actual doctors weve seen in the show in his future
It’s not the master he’s the War Chief
Oh no not the crappy NuWho regeneration effects - I wonder if he strikes the pose like most of the NuWho doctors do 😂
Yea regens are boring now, part of the excitement of the classic era regens was how they were going to do the fx. In the new era 9/10 was ok and I quite liked 11/12 but all the others have just been “meh”.
Maybe he'll dance before strutting up to flame up, that's even more exciting!
All they can do is vandalise the Classic era and continue to borrow from it heavily because modern day show runners are bankrupt of ideas. I don’t wish to see that golden regeneration effect for the second Doctor. It’s bad enough we have it in new Who without any variation on the effect. The War Games cut down to 90 minutes is stupid. It’s going to be another hot mess. RTD obviously thinks young people can’t cope with long stories or black & white. Does he think younger audiences have low attention spans? It’s sad that Doctor Who today has loads of time and cash thrown at it and yet fails to get good writing, whereas Classic Who made on low budgets has the best writing and RTD feels the need to meddle! RTD hates people altering his work but is more than happy to tamper with others!
You can still watch the old ones... no one is forcing you to watch the new versions... What is your point?
@ And what about the authors who wrote these Classics? They aren’t around to give their consent. Is it right for RTD and Co. to rob their legacy?
@@PaulRichards-vz4pl The old ones are still there... These are additional.. and optional. Rob their legacy? A little hyperbolic, wouldn't you say? They are not for you. What you want still exists. I love JRR Tolkiens Books... And I love Peter Jacksons movies. They are not the same. Many things different. I can separate the 2 and appreciate them for what each of them are. The same thing applies here. I still do not see your point. ...and I like the regeneration effects! We all have our own opinions and neither of us are wrong.
@@valuevinyl110 Well I believe it shows a lack of awareness on RTD’s behalf. He says that people shouldn’t alter his works and he’s against tampering of someone’s creative genius and yet he’s willing to do the opposite. The hypocrisy here is off the scale. Yes of course we still have the original (for now) to watch but there are many past BBC TV shows that have been edited for fear of offending. I’m against censorship and rewriting history.
@@PaulRichards-vz4pl He. He. Me too.
It says we will see Patrick Troughton regenerate into Jon Pertwee.
i would like the whole story to be done
Can't always get what you'd like....
But if you try sometimes....
I suppose you could call Doctor Who Day...
...The Day Of The Doctor.
It’s seems every time a celebration comes along suddenly new footage is found 🤔 very interesting
The second Doctor uses the sonic screwdriver and the Fugitive Doctor doesn’t know what a sonic screwdriver is. It ain’t gonna happen. She’s pre Hartnell, and that’s it. Also the War Lord and War Chief are separate characters. The Chief is a Time Lord. The War Lord isn’t a Time Lord. It was alluded in the old Target Terror of the Autons that the Chief and the Master were one and the same. But it’s not a popular theory. I’ll bet my fez they use other Doctors in the bit where the Time Lords show other potential incarnations.
fugitive doctor does know what a sonic screwdriver is, just doesn't recognise 13s. in response to 13 stating that fugitive has to be in the past becasue she doesn't recognise the sonic screwdriver fugitive replies "smart enough not to need one" in addition screwdrivers are referred to as gallifreyan technoogy multiple times. its more likely that fugitive simply didn't recognise tha version of the screwdriver
@@utopic777 When the Fugitive Doctor said that she was smart enough not to need a Sonic Screwdriver, it wasn’t because she knew what it was, but because she’d seen the Doctor use it multiple times when she was Ruth, so was able to figure out its function. I don’t think that line that she didn’t recognise a sonic screwdriver would’ve been put into the script if she did recognise it, as it’s supposed to be emphasising that this Doctor predates the Sonic Screwdriver.
I mean, she could be lying. Maybe she knew what a screwdriver was
@@Jamezevans123it doesn't matter if Jo Martin's Doctor knows what a sonic screwdriver is or not. If she doesn't, it could be because she has had her memory wiped. That's kind of the point of all the mixed messages of her presentation, that we just don't know, the modern Doctor doesn't know. Is she pre-Hartnell? Is she Season 6B? Is she the Doctor's future? Any answer can be justified, and every answer has issues. And, personally, I really don't like that ambiguity, but it was clearly put there intentionally, and I doubt it will ever be resolved. So in that sense, @KingofPotatoPeople is likely right, and whether or not we see Jo Martin again, we will probably not get confirmation that she is in 6B. However, it still may be that we will see some confirmation that there *is* a 6B.
I've always thought that the Monk was an early incarnation of the Master. Also, I love the old Target novelizations! I have the entire collection from An Unearthly Child right through Logopolis! By the time I got that far the books were out of print, but now that they are back I'll have to start up again with Castrovalva!! 👏👏👏👏👍
For some reason the colourised daleks episode won't allow you to disable both sign language and subtitles your have to watch with either one or the other,hope they don't do that with the colourised war games...
Leave "The War Games" ALONE!
shame we in the states cant see it
The Timelord War Chief (Mister Meeker in RentaGhost) is who I think you meant to be a possible version of the Master. The War Lord was his boss (Philip Madoc).
As for Doctor Who Day its not such a bad title. Alternatively it could be Desperately Seeking Susan Day or simply TARDIS day.
Apparently Sean Pertwee was doing some work in wales last year many including myself believed this was for the 60th Anniversary but I suspect they use Sean pertwee for the transition between the 2nd doctor and the 3rd
OH MY GOSH-
Awesome! Love Patrick. Love Jo. And love the _War Games!_ It's a three-fer. 😊
I'm not against the colorization or even cutting it down but 90 minutes?! This has potential to show every bad way classic WHO is different from current WHO.
Any news if this will feature on Disney+?
I hate that they retcon regenerations. They just didn't look like that!
Great analysis. Can't wait to watch this very soon.
i am fine with troughton regenerating into jo martin. I am not fine with the regeneration being done in a way that makes season 6b impossible. The ConfessionDial's version includes a brief flashforward of troughton's scenes in the Three Doctors, Five Doctors, and Two Doctors. Hopefully they wont cut it out, or better yet they will improve on the scene
Even if they cut the explicit showcases of Season 6B, Season 6B is basically canon already. All Second Doctor adventures in 6B either take place during the trial or before he’s placed in the TARDIS to regenerate. Even if they were to show the Doctor walking into the TARDIS, 6B would still be canon.
Why would the third doctor be wearing the second doctors clothes if there were an inserted non Canon doctor
10 eps to 90 mins, will be a worse hack job then the Daleks colorized
Don't know why they even bother to be honest they look good as they originally are.
Less. There's new footage, as well as found footage (censor cuts?)
To be fair, Malcolm Hulke, one of the writers of the story, hacked 10 episodes down into a 100 page novella, so it's hardly unprecedented when it comes to The War Games :D
The Sound is strange. I Love your Videos 😊 Fan Français ❤
No true Doctor Who fan says the awful crap about the classic series as this OP who has seriously never watched "The War Games" in full?
If I had a nickel for every time an official Doctor Who product reused a fan project about the second doctor's regeneration I'd have two nickels but it's weird that it's happened twice.
The other time was the Big Finish audio Zagreus reusing audio of Jon Pertwee originally from the fan film Doctor Who: Devious.
Devious is cool.
@@willgillies5670 Devious will soon be complete. Finally.
A lot of Classic Doctor Who has a lot of toing and froing or things that don't affect the plot and make the story longer than it needs to be. 60s Doctor Who especially was drawn out. I feel The Daleks 75 minute cut down from a 7 parter works but for The War Games a 90 minute cut down from a 10 parter might not work as well but that remains to be seen. Although this is one of the stories that has a lot of toing and froing that I feel work for this story.
To long... i watched the entire doc who series. ALL black and white stories even the still frames ones with only sound. Why... because i'm nuts and i want to see everything.
Years ago I would be so against this idea but now I don’t really care, i’d rather not have Fugitive between 2 and 3 but if that’s what they do, i’d deal with it, explain it well enough I suppose but overall, why not, have memory wipes and given an extra regeneration to cover, I mean I highly doubt they would do it as it even says the regeneration into the 3rd Doctor Jon Pertwee, Bigenaration? Maybe but again I doubt it, I think it will be more or less like the fan version
The trim from like... 10 episodes down to 90 minutes is going to be wild, but I for one genuinely welcome it. A 10 parts long episode is just way too long. And since a good chunk of it has been lost to time... It's probably for the best to trim it anyway!
I have, however, mixed feelings regarding this "brand new regeneration sequence". While giving visibility (and money) to fans and their works is pretty damn great to see. The Confession Dial has been making some truly astounding work (absolutely love their work on the 6th Doctor regeneration).
BUT, the 2nd Doctor regeneration being extra creepy and eerie and mysterious and downright scary (to me maybe) was/is a pretty important thing IMO. And seeing the standard "golden energy" from New Who is rather distateful I think. Not that it isn't well-made, but more like, I really liked the different design and aspect regeneration could take in Classic Who.
Not to mention, having 2 regenerate into 3 right after The War Games would be hell, cause they have dozens of stories set AFTER The War Games, both in TV, novels, comics and audio... I think I'll stick with the superior version of the 2nd Doctor's regeneration: the one seen in Devious.
No, The War Games is complete. Maybe you're thinking of The Dalek Master Plan?
With regards to the never seen before footage, it could be found footage from other stories shown as evidence in the Doctor's trial. (Spoilers)
There was a regeneration scene in a fan story called Devious featuring an intermediatary version of the Doctor in between the second and third incarnation that Jon Pertwee actually filmed (the footage is on youtube as well as the War Games DVD). I wonder if it will end up in this new version of the War Games?
It would be interesting if The War Chief from The Division.
How is this lost, like, I literally have this. 2 was forced to regenerate by the Time Lords, into 3. This isn't lost footage, like?
you never actually saw 2 turn into 3 directly, the first time you see 3 is in spearhead from space
You didn't finish The War Games? What a pity.
I’m just hoping that we in America will get a Blu-ray release of this with the original War Games as well because the original DVD of the War games is $100!
I'm suspicious of taking the serials and editing them into one feature for one reason. My first experience with Doctor Who was a PBS showing of a Tom Baker story that was shown as a long episode instead of the individual episodes, and it made that sense that it was too long even more than when it's broken up by the cliffhangers.
I'm sure they've cut these down some, but we watched a few old stories that were easily 2 episodes of story max that were stretched to fit 4 or 5 episodes. That's a lot to cut.
We did make it through all of War Games though. :P
Maybe they'll also force the War Master to regenerate into Delgado before being thrown into the prison they escape from right before TERROR OF THE AUTONS.
I don't think so since the War Master came long after Delgado as proven in "Utopia" when we heard echoes of previous Masters when he was holding the watch.
@@joshuajoshua2732 Different War Master. The person behind all of the time stuff in War Games is called the War Master. That's why it has long been speculated that he's actually the person we came to know as the Master. In the first episode of Pertwee's second series, part one of Terror of the Autons, a Time Lord shows up to warn the Doctor that the Master has escaped from imprisonment on Gallifrey. So it would definitely work to regenerate the War Master from "War Games" into the Delgado Master.
@@akakjbHe's actually called the War Chief, as you say, a different Time Lord from The Master.
I prefer the Fugtive Doctor to be a future version i hate when they mess with history and established past storylines it's totally unnecessary this is why fans should never showrun for Doctor Who.
As I had a Saturday job when this was first show I never actually SAW it, but my parents recorded it on my Reel to Reel tape recorder, over writing every week I only kept the last episode. I also write out the dialogue by hand every week (hows that for dedication) , so this is the story I remember best of the Troughton era. I did have a bit of a "thing" for Wendy at the time. However I believe the story was written to fill the space of two or more stories that fell through so a bit of the padding/repetition being removed could improve it.
As long as RTD2 tightens up the story to something like 2-2.5 hours it’ll be easier to digest than the weekend I spent trudging through 6 hours of incomplete and repetitive film 🎥 footage. Jo Martin (the Exiled Doctor) would fit in as well as the late William Hurt did as the War Doctor.
I will have to get this dvd when it comes out, and this story really IMO should have been made and shown in six parts like the Invasion was originally intended to be made and shown and the Invasion and the War Games would have been better served in six or even five parts.
im still wondering where the Lost Footage part comes in? i
The War Games is one of my all time favourites. I would like to see the full serial including the lost footage being given a colourised update, and I would also like to see this new material added to an updated black and white version too!!!
Jo Martin was a great Doctor, should of just casted her as 13,14 or 15, but she has no business being in Classic Who. The massive retcon was enough. We don't need retroactive footage of her in the past
People really need to realise that Fugitive isn't in-between 2 and 3 or pre Hartnell. Her backstory is too messed up that it only makes sense for her to be a unbound Doctor from another universe and hopefully this new 2nd Doctor regen does that.
THANK YOU!! Yes, finally someone else gets it. Ruth as “Pre-Hartnell” doesn’t make sense, but thinking she’s the “original” Third Doctor is complete and utter shite.
@@skinner219 Yeah it just feels like she trying to steal/take away from the 1st or 2nd Doctors with either option.
It like they are ripping off the war doctor but not bothering to have her make sense
I know people use the Fugitive Doctor’s TARDIS being stuck as a Police Box as proof that she can’t be Pre-Hartnell because it was in An Unearthly Child that the TARDIS became stuck as that, but you have to remember that the TARDIS is a sentient time/space machine who can archive console rooms that the Doctor hasn’t even had yet, said by the TARDIS herself in The Doctor’s Wife. So if the TARDIS the Pre-Hartnell Doctors used is the one that Hartnell stole from the repair shop, then as it’s the same TARDIS, it could look into her own future and see that it becomes stuck as a Police Box in An Unearthly Child. As the past and future collide in Fugitive of the Judoon, what makes a lot of sense is that when the Fugitive Doctor went on the run from Division, the TARDIS deliberately brought her to Earth so that the 13th Doctor could meet her, and deliberately disguised herself as her future disguise the Police Box so that when the 13th Doctor dug her up outside of the Lighthouse, she’d instantly know that it was her own TARDIS, meaning Ruth was her.
@skinner219 sure, she would the third doctor but it's the same thing with the war doctor. He doesn't have a number, and the doctors that came after him didn't change their numbers
@@jvictor001 yes but the David would doctor 13 not Matt so Matt being supposedly the last one in the first cycle would be wrong so she can't
NO. If they make this fugitive doctor more canon the show will be more dead than it is
* cannon
I'm excited about this. I just hope they don't ruin it... just had a thought, all this talk of what they are doing with the Doctor's regeneration in this, I wonder, speculatively, if they'll add a regeneration scene for the War Chief... perhaps having him regenerate into the Delgado incarnation of the Master..?
Technically, it's not "never seen before" footage. Just considered lost until now.
Not lost footage he wasn't cast before the regeneration
Classic Who was fine the way it was. New Who wasn't really needed but it was done well enough because it didn't undo the established classic lore. Technically the exact point where the series should have ended was when Matt Smith's 12th Doctor was at the end of his regenerations of 13 total. Since they had inserted the War Doctor played excellently by Sir John Hurt,Matt Smith's 12th Doctor was in fact the 13th and final regeneration.
There were only two legitimate options. The first was for The Doctor to finally die and not inject the whole Clara Oswald begging the Time Locked Time Lords from the Time War to extend his lifespan. It already had been established that The Doctor had only 13 regenerations. They should have just ended the show there. The second option would have been to go down the route of The Master who extended his life by stealing the lives of others and in essence make The Doctor fulfill his fate of becoming evil just like the Valyard version of him in the 6th Doctor episodes that showed him inevitably becoming evil. Of course given his selfless nature this one wouldn't be accepted so by default the first would have been the only true option.
By going beyond the established length of regenerations that had been established for The Doctor in the franchise it opened up the Proverbial Pandora's Box. Since the "change" wasn't rejected it gave the BBC permission to change more and more until you reach the DEI Woke Agenda Era.
Personally I pick the cut off of the series as the specific episode I mentioned above. Everything after that was no longer Legitimate Doctor Who in my eyes. Stopped watching after that because I knew what would come to pass and it has. A once grand show ruined first by corporate greed to keep it going and then deformed to a shameful shadow of itself in the present day because of people who need a platform to spew their opinions as fact and truth instead of going out to the corners of streets with megaphones to spew their messages there because they know no one would listen or care about them or their "sacred" message.
I'm all for it if they want to colourize the black and white era, we'll have them as an alternative and a new generation can appreciate the older stories. But, I don't think it should look unnaturally over saturated like how the Daleks came out. It looks like someone took a blue highlighter and coloured it in. There was another colourization here on youtube that looks more natural, closer to what season 7 looks like. Not sure why they didn't make it look more like that.
I kind of hope that they don’t do the fugitive doctor because it was maid clear she was a pre Hartnell doctor. Also she was depicted as being tough and immoral which Patrick and John never were.it makes no sense
It's seem not right for fugitive doctor to come between 2th and 3th doctor but they could have pop her in later on when Chris regenerates. Why mess with old storylines. That will be so confusing to some fans.
Couldn't the Jo Martin doctor be an lost earlier doctor before William Hartnel
If Patrick Troughton is regenerated into the Fugitive Doctor, I wont buy did. As a lifelong Dr Who fan, I'm exactly the market for this product, but retconning pivotal classic stories is a hard pass.
Totally agree.
Why would you buy it anyway? I don't think you are the market (sotto voce: I don't know what the market is...). I think the market is the remedial class for the next generation of Doctor Who fans. It is already assuming they have a short attention span, they don't like black and white, they are uncomfortable with ambiguity or the unfamiliar, long words bother them - they prefer "wibbly wobbly timey wimey" to "Blinovitch Limitation Effect" and "fam" to "companions".
@@markpostgate2551 I know I'm exactly the market for this product because I have purchased ALL the other media in this range... but if these releases of classic Who start editing in retcons rather than restorations, I will stop buying them.
The Jo Martin Doctor didn't Dress as the Second Doctor and the 3rd was wearing the seconds outfit
Wrong If you are going vto colorise it do all the episodes If you cant watch the full episodes dont watch it at all TRADITIONALIS
The War Lord is not the Master, it's a different character. "Additional Material" yet cutting 160 minutes from the original. They should concentrate on the new series making sense and having a logical narrative rather than taking a hachet to classic stories.
I hope they will put it on Tubi
'Doctor Who Day' makes you cringe but 'whoniverse' doesn't?
I finished the war games 3 times
Will it be a bigeneration? RTD said he thought they now all did that. 😂 I so hope not. Also, they better not retcon the War Chief into the Master.
he didnt mean it
The expanded universe for decades has separated the War Chief from the Master. I don't think conflating the 2 is all that interesting an idea. I like the idea of More Renegades, not Less.
In a similar vein I kinda don't like them locking down the regeneration to eliminate all the 6B stuff/speculation. That's part of the fun and the copium to explain Fugitive Doctor. Setting it in stone... well I guess the original is still the stone, but you know what I mean. Curtails imagination, the canvas no studio could ever outdo.
The Jo Martin Doctor is pre-Hartnell. Give it up on the post Troughton Doctor. It's a desperate fan attempt to explain her TARDIS, whereas every part of the narratives she's been involved in show she worked for the Time Lords before the Doctor left Gallifrey.
Not sure what you mean by 'get it.' I don't, Butchering a series because the newer generation have a attention span of a gnat' I don't get. Sure it will be fun, but never a replacement. 'Tomb of the Cybermen' would had been a better choice, if they really felt it necessary to edit down.
Tomb of the Cybermen actually has more "filler" than The War Games does. I seem to remember that hibernation control lever going backwards and forwards a lot in Tomb. More times than are necessary to convey that the Doctor wants that lever kept to the left and the other guy wants it kept to the right (or was it the other way around?). The War Games, for all its length, doesn't seem static to me at any point; it actually feels quite pacy.
Tbh, I’m not too keen on the classic Doctors having the new regeneration effect; feels off lol
That's kind of ashame you didn't finish it because "The War Games" is considered one of the most epic Dr. Who serials of all time and i think youv'e missed out on some good stuff here this new vandalised version by Russell Toyboy Davis is not going to give you that.
I'm also going to tell you straight away because this is starting to get very annoying you need to get your facts right The War Chief and The War Lord are not The Master ok they are completely seperate characters even Terence Dicks confirmed that in old interviews many times the War Chief is an entirely different Time Lord and the War Lord is from another race as it was stated in the end of the serial this is why i never like to be involve with theorises because it causes mixed messaging and it gives people the wrong idea.
Dr who secret wars 😅
I totally agree with you regarding "Dr Who Day" its so cringeworthy , especially as for forty of those years the BBC loathed Dr Who.
Yeee
It seems to me it is an attempt to decanonise season 6b. If that line in Space Babies that confused everyone about how long Ruby had actually been travelling was actually there to explain why Sarah believes she is from the Eighties, hence decanonising one entire version of the UNIT dating controversy (something that hasn't actually been debated in a fan forum for over twenty years!) and shipping Rose and "The Doctor Dances" was all about "pwning the incels" regarding the Grace Holloway kiss (although of course they weren't called "incels" back then; just "virgins" before the insult and insinuation became political! 😂 ) then clearly this is another swaggering demonstration of "hobbyking" dominance, this time against the season 6b-ers. It's another opportunity for RTD to baffle the not-we with a megalomaniacal declaration of "I get to decide what is canon now, mwahahahahaha." Clearly just the next on his tick list of "fan factions I don't like"!
I'm guessing that it would also de-canonise The Two Doctors as well.
@Paul-gh6ng
Season 6b was a fan theory basically devised to fix apparent continuity errors in The Two Doctors and The Five Doctors, but gained such widespread approval as an elegant solution that it became "confirmed" in a number of non-televisual media stories including one novel, and I think one Big Finish as well (someone more cognisent of extra-media content than myself may confirm, correct or clarify). So in a sense it wouldn't be decanonising The Two Doctors but reproblemitising it by erasing the perfect solution that had already been devised.
@@markpostgate2551 More than one Big Finish, they’re doing Season 6B with the ‘Second Doctor Adventures.’ It’s also literally confirmed in The Five Doctors when he sees Jamie and Zoe and states the Time Lords wiped their memories when they sent them back. So, that’s clearly AFTER the War Games. 6B isn’t just a theory.
@khodges5497
Hold on, Season 6b didn't exist as a concept when The Five Doctors was written or aired; in fact the first attempt at head canon within the fan community was "when a time lord is taken out of his time stream he recalls every event up up until his regeneration" which is patently absurd, but it was suggested it also explained how the third doctor could be aware that his fourth incarnation would be "all teeth and curls". And even after The Two Doctors it was considered that the writers had screwed up continuity, rather than there being an in universe explanation. I think you are ret-conning the history of the show itself by believing that we knew then what we know now. In fact, I would say that the season 6b theory only came in vogue during the wilderness years. But I am sure Big Finish did reify it; it was a compelling theory that explained a lot of oddities and loose ends.
There were still fans that didn't like it, and it was never confirmed in the televisual media (and anything not confirmed in the televisual media is not hard canon in the sense that the writers for the tv show will not hesitate to contradict it, for example, far from canonozing DWW's comic strip The Star Beast, the episode of the same title does the opposite, by showing us more or less the same events happening to the 14th Doctor and Donna rather than the 4th Doctor, with Rose Noble replacing first black Doctor Who companion Sharon, it actually makes it inescapably clear that the comic strip didn't happen to the televisual Doctor at all. And there always were degrees of canonicity; no one ever believed, seriously, that the Prime computer adverts were canon, or that 1975's August edition of Disney Time was canon... even though it seamlessly synchs up with Terror of the Zygons the following week. I think if a detail hasn't been confirmed on screen in the tv show I think any writer for the tv show would consider that detail disposable. As is the case here; if we are being shown the 2nd Doctor regenerating into the 3rd Doctor at the trial we are clearly being informed that the creators of this piece of media does not consider the season 6b retcon to be worthy of preservation which will be controversial and will ruffle feathers in a way that the not-we will not be able to understand.
Season 6b theory was designed to explain The Five Doctors, The Five Doctors was not written to confirm Season 6b. The puddle is indeed in the shape of the indentation containing the puddle, but that doesn't mean that the puddle came first!
Looking forward to this, and hope they have a more sympathetic soundtrack than the weird choice of cringy music in one of last year's action scenes. If it's done subtly, the music should enhance a scene, not stick out like a sore thumb. As you said this is an additional choice for fans to experience the story, but it may screw up the continuity of intervening stories which can capitalise on the unseen regeneration, and allow the 2nd, and potentially even the 3rd Doctor who may have a new face for some time, but just doesn't get to see it in a mirror until the televised scene, and has further adventures before finally appearing falling out of the Tardis.
You are to young to even seen the 1970s to the 1980s also the deleted scenes that U claim that deleted they weren't I remember those seeing them on tv way back in those days of doctor who so I don't know what U r on about
Since Russell jettisoned canon & Chibnall brought in that gawdawful Timeless Child thing, I reject no theory out of hand.
So, Chibnall does Timeless Child, which was already established in Lungbarrow in the 80s and hinted at several times in the show, and the "fans" rage, but Russel retcons the ENTIRE SHOW to force bigeneration on every Doctor, and those same so-called fans love it? Wtf am I missing here? Just wow.
A lot of people don’t love it. I’m fine with bigeneration happening once, but for every doctor just doesn’t make sense and opens a whole can of worms
They're on RTD payroll
@@ZiemakAttackhonestly, I believe RTD hasn't told the whole story on that. I believe that every bigeneration resulted in a separate timeline where every Doctor just woke up with the same old face, wondering why they regenerated into themselves. This is essentially what I get from the Seventh Doctor speech to Ace in Tales from the TARDIS. These timelines are still connected via the Memory TARDIS in the main timeline, of course, which makes it possible for the elderly alternate Six and Seven to interact with Peri and Ace respectively.
@@alessandroarsuffi9227 Hmm, that might be the best way to reconcile all of the extended universe stories. I just wish it wasn’t so complicated. But I guess this is Doctor Who we’re talking about
They've tried to turn Doctor Who into Marvel. Which is really unnecessary.
I look forward to seeing the remastered version of the War Games. However, I won't bother with anything after Peter Capaldi whose series marked the end of this series which "remastered" itself into yet another boring, gangrenous BBC-DEIsney Woke-Wank Mov megaphone blaring "Da message" as it's primary (usually ONLY) priority with any hope of a coherent, interesting story light years behind screaming out "Da Message". I find that Jodie Whittaker "thing" and the Ncuti Gatwa "thing" to be utter frauds, especially the Gatwa "thing" in which he's play out his and RTD's gay fantasies on screen to be nothing but trashy exhibitionism and utter gag-a-maggot DEI swill)
The War Games now feature the regeneration between the 2nd and the 3rd Doctors the 2nd DOES NOT regenerate into the Fugitive Doctor she is from his past not his future get it right just like the Morbius Doctors all in the past Who Culture has videos of this
RTD talks out of both sides of his mouth, he had 15 basically crap on the 4th doctor, he doesn't seem to care about old who
Your thumbnail is clickbait as this never happened, stop this woke garbage, there never was a black wamen Doctor ok, "oh but here's the lost footage found in a skip in Aberdeen" bull
You can colorize the old black and white episodes, you can up date the special effects ( Day of the Daleks was excellent), but for Christ's sake...don't screw with the cannon of original Who! Don't shoehorn new Doctors between Troughton and Pertwee, especially a DEI character just as a vain attempt to appeal to "modern audiences" which, according to the ratings, aren't watching. RTD is basically giving the middle finger to long time fans because he can't stand it that he's no Terrance Dicks or Robert Holmes.
I've no problem with them updating the regeneration in this version to marry up with the modern day version of it, but I don't like the idea of showing the complete process, as that takes away any of the potential mystery of there being another secret unseen incarnation that the original incomplete Troughton regeneration allowed. And that includes showing Troughton regenerate into anyone else, including the Ruth Doctor or any other new unseen before Doctor for that matter.
Of course even if they do show the whole regeneration it begs the question of whether or not that becomes canon over the original, and we all know that the fanbase will be divided on that.
I've looked over the fan made Troughon regeneration and love how well done it is, and love Pertwees Doctors reaction when he wakes up. I think if anything that could easily be used for a special updated version of his first episode and serial, but I don't want to see the full regeneration in any one episode in order to both stay true to what happened in the original versions, and leave it open to have someone else show up as inbetwener Doctor - and there's plenty of ways to allow for the Doctor having more than the full 13 "proper" incarnations betwen William Harnell and Matt Smith. I'm a firm beleiver that due to how the War Doctor was made, through drinking a potion made by the Sisters of Kahn, that he's not a regular "proper" incarnation, but an additional one, while Tennants aborted spare hand channeling regeneration does count making 10's face count as two seperate incarnations and keeping Smith as the true 13th and final incarnation. That still allows an extra incarnation betwen 2 and 3 to make up the full 13.
Anniversary. Just a thought! Write Out Fugitive Doctor.
Putting the fugitive doctor inbetween 2&3 would be so disrespectful and would show they have no care for the show
It also wouldn't make sense and crap on Chibnalls Timeless Child, as putting Ruth Dr between 2 and 3 is mainly copium
Well, I've said this before. All Chris Chibnall would have had to do is have the Time Lords create multiples from Troughton's forced regeneration scene. There was a part of that scene where he could have done that where there were several versions of the Second Doctor on screen. We followed one splinter, our Third Doctor, and the rest were scattered across space and time to do the Time Lords' dirty work for them that they didn't 'want' to get involved in. Ruth could have been one of those, a sleeper, that they could awaken in an emergency. It would explain why a much older Second Doctor and Jamie appeared in the Two Doctors and his working for the Time Lords and would have explained all the Brain Of Morbius Doctors as telepathic bleed throughs during the mind battle with the Morbius monster. It would also explain the Police Box disguise of Ruth's TARDIS. But, oh no. He had to try and mess about with the beginning and the Hartnell Doctor. If he wanted alternative Doctors, the answer was right there in that Troughton effects sequence. He botched it.
I think RTD has already shown he only cares for his vision of the show.
@@gwres I get the feeling that RDT has gone a little 🎶🎶!
If they retcon Jo Martin into Troughtons regeneration I'm going to be very angry and be so done with this show.
NGL though she kinda has to be. We've seen all the regenerations since Hartnell apart from that one. And as Jo Martin's doctor had the police box TARDIS that means she has to be post Hartnell
@@oliverkerins5628 The Fugitive Doctor being Pre-Hartnell and her TARDIS being stuck as a Police Box isn’t impossible when the TARDIS is a sentient time/space machine who can archive console rooms that the Doctor hasn’t even had yet, said by the TARDIS herself in The Doctor’s Wife. So if the TARDIS the Pre-Hartnell Doctors used is the one that Hartnell stole from the repair shop, that means that the TARDIS would’ve been able to look into its own future and see that it one day becomes stuck as a Police Box. What makes a lot of sense is that when the Fugitive Doctor went on the run from Division, the TARDIS deliberately brought her to Earth so that the 13th Doctor could meet her, and deliberately disguised herself as a Police Box so that when the 13th Doctor dug her up, she’d instantly know that it was her own TARDIS. As it’s too coincidental that the Master teases the Doctor of her forgotten past at the end of Spyfall, then not long after the Doctor bumps into something to do with that forgotten past, the TARDIS being behind those two Doctors meeting makes so much sense.
Why though? The doctor would eventually become the actual 3rd doctor anyway. Besides, they could've gave the doctor any face, including the Fugitive doctor's face before making her Pertwee.
I'd rather have Fugitive between 2 and 3 than pre Hartnel
Why can't she just simply be a future Doctor with lost memories why mess up the history when it doesn't need it. It feels disrespectful and a spit in your face to the original creators.
@joshuaverran9443 fair enough, but a season 6b explanation messes up the cannon less than a timeless child explanation (at least in my opinion)
Who cares.
The BBC has Greta Thunberged every Doctor Who fan.😢
If you don't like calling it doccy who day,you could do a 50th and call it "The Day Of The Doctor"
I just call it Whomas lol :p
All this will do is close the book on series 6b theories for good
how about just calling it Day of the Doctors
I TURNED IN TO SEE REAL DR WHO NEWS, BUT RIGHT OFF THE BAT IT WAS Q-NEWS ABOUT THE GAY DR WHO = THUMBS DOWN CLICK BAIT
What is this comment lmaoooooo😭
“THE GAY DR WHO”😭