What would YOU do with T♠ T♣ on the flop? Your Stack (BTN): $2,400 Their Stacks (BB, UTG & UTG+1): > $2,500 Pot: $400 Board: 6♥ 5♠ 3♣ BB, UTG & UTG+1 check A) Check B) Bet $125 (small) C) Bet $300 (large) D) Bet $600 (huge) ________________ What would YOU do with T♠ T♣ on the river? Your Stack (BTN): $1,900 Their Stack (UTG): > $2,500 Pot: $1,400 Board: 6♥ 5♠ 3♣ 8♦ 3♦ UTG bets $1,200 A) Fold B) Call C) Raise to $1,900 (all in)
Complicated. Presumably the better and first caller do not have premium hands or they would have bet. (?) We are the most likely player to have two pair , and straight draws. We quite possibly have the best hand and we want to protect our equity from two hands with overcards. (Right?) We do not have the range advantage or we should have reraised lp preflop so shouldn't we bet large and infrequently? I go with the3/4 pot sized bet of option C.
This is a tough river decision. Although given the opponent as a recreational player I think you have to make the reluctant option B and call. If opponents have been splashy they can be making this move with an 98, 78, busted over draw.
On the river (2 quizes, nice!). I would reluctantly fold. In my live poker experience, recreational players seldom bluff the river by donking you that way. She must have at least a 3. So A/ whinning fold😒
This river bet is so ridiculously strong. Without a read, I have to fold. Calling to understand your opponent's tendencies only makes sense if you will be playing a lot of poker against this opponent for a long time.
Trivial fold for me. You raised them on the turn, and then they donked almost pot on the river. No logical bluffs missed imo. Also mandatory bet on the flop when checked to in position. I also don't think 10's are very strong here, this was a multiway pot pre, and so by the turn and river your hand is very marginal, and you are not beating any value hands.
Agreed. I personally would bet small ($125-$150). I think in this scenario you can get more information by how opponents react on the flop versus them calling a check raise on the turn. Also there is a good chance you can get to showdown cheaper. Often the turn can go check check. If the flop has a flush draw I would consider checking more often.
@@MrTjthorso shouldn't you bet more often if there is a flush draw? Another one of Jonathons videos talks about betting in multiway pots and you usually bet more often when the board is likely to change on the turn (i.e. a flush draw that hits) especially with a hand like 10's to give it protection
Throughout video they are labeling the villain here as the 'recreational' player. The way this one played out i think its the total opposite. She disguised her hand very well, played it correctly, and on the turn held back pushing over the top. This way the narrator was super confused about her holding and was hooked in to wager the river call. She played it perfect.
I feel like she was betting small on the set because she was scared of the straights and then she bet big when she got the full house because she didn't need to fear the straights anymore.
Q2: very tricky. If it was someone who's been seen to make aggressive bluffs or plays like this was weaker overpairs, then a call becomes easier bit not easy to make. Lol I play microstakes online and crush live £10 tourneys! 😀 However this play is imo most likely to be an overpair that waited to avoid the flush, a slow played set or possibly a bigger hand. I fold and wait for a better chance!
You should always remember that the biggest tell in poker is the action that your opponent takes. When they bet substantially on the river, especially a rec player, they are almost always NEVER bluffing. Recs under bluff tremendously. As you can see by my answer to the second quiz, my playing of the hand finished +$1200 compared to Lex. I didn't get to confirm my read, but I felt very comfortable that I was beat and didn't need the confirmation.
Very good analysis...one of your best videos...i would have added pocket pairs jj+ in the range of her possible hands...not everyone raises them preflop!
I had a spot at a live $1/3 game in Cincinnati. I’m on the BB with a $6 button straddle behind. I have red pocket 10’s SB folds, I raise to $15, MP cold calls, folds to the button who 4-bets to $75. Button only have $76 left in his stack. I HATE these shallow SPR spots playing OOP post flop. Seriously considered jamming pre flop, but ended up folding the 10’s. Such a sick spot.. thanks for the video JL
The main problem is Lex’s perceived range is super strong. No one will ever put him on TT with the line he had chosen. With that said, it is really hard to believe the opponent will donk in what looks like a nutted range on the river. I feel like in this particular instance it is reasonable to overfold even better hands , as an exploit
Ok multi-way spot. No overcards came which is good, but there’s a low straight which is a great flop for BB and probably the UTG limper. So with AA or KK I would not be inclined to bet, but TT clearly needs some protection, in the form of a small bet: (B) $125 If we get check-raised by the recreational original limper we fold, and I think same with BB. I think we have to call a check-raise by the preflop raiser. $1200 lead from the rec iimper after we raised the turn🔥🔥 Alarm bells. She was trapping with a big hand, like 55, or even maybe scared of the straight, and now has a boat. FOOOOLDDDD. [nailed the read lol]
The Flop: Bet $125. Two thoughts. Do I want to continue with 4 players in the hand or do I want to continue to ''hide'' my over pair? I dont think anybody improved their hand and I think my TT is fairly good. But I also dont want to let others catch up ie and ranges could include 9T suited , A9 , KT etc - I dont think anybody has a better pocket pair than my TT. - yet. Now to bet enough to get people off the pot. I do think any bet will chase some players away so my bet is $125
The flop check caused that whole situation. By being unwilling to bet 3/4 pot on the flop, he cost himself an additional $1,300 in the end. I love when my opponents play as he did. Easy money.
I disagree. This was 4-way pre-flop. The likelihood that someone hit the flop is high. Either 3-bet pre-flop or pot control. His mistake was mixing lines. Just call the turn and evaluate the river.
A low board looks good for TT, but is a difficult spot to play. If you bet small, over cards will have direct odds to call. Big pocket pairs that remain in the three bettors range can call or raise depending on whether the opponent wants to deny equity of cards above their pair. A random two pair or set could just call or raise small to keep in over pairs that are drawing thin. A large bet could see some over cards and 77, 88, 99 fold perhaps, but bigger pairs can happily call. 4 ways I would check and look to realise my equity. The betting on the turn will offer a lot of information from which to make a more informed decision. Yes, over cards are going to come a lot of the time and allow opponents you are ahead of to realise their equity, but betting the flop is unlikely to fold out those hands, so a check makes the most sense to me. I couldn't fold that river quick enough. I don't see recreational players calling a check raise on the turn and having worse than TT. If they have over valued an eight or 99 so be it.
I learned a lot from this video. definitely a keeper. As for my action - I would have Folded facing the 1,200 raise due to the fact that bluffs scenarios seem lesser than nuts. Excellent vid! 💌
Either 300 or maybe 125 depending on my understanding of the BB and UTG limper... Fold.... Should have gone X/Bet 300, X/X, Bet/Call. He seems to make things hard/more tricky than they need to be a lot.
On the flop I like option C and bet $300. Opponents could be splashy, but there are some draws and you don't want to give your opponents of free draw. Although if this was heads up I would like option B
Given all the action, I think river is pretty much an easy fold for me. As Jonathan mentioned, the board basically doesn't have enough bluff hand for us to call this hand. The only hand we beat here basically is 99 and 77 that overplayed because AQ, AK, JJ+ most likely already raise Preflop instead of limp. If we think she can't have 97 or 74 we can't beat at hers range, then we also can't put 85s that we actually beat. Another worth mentioned here that if Lex bet the flop, most likely he will lose minimum because again as Jonathan mentioned, there are just way too many Turn card that Lex don't like. P/S: I would have miss river value if I played her hand because I will never call a turn raise and lead river. I will basically check/raise 100% of the time if I was in her position. Her line were so strange but who cares, she won the hand with max value. LoL
In my experience, recreational players that arent torching love limp/calling specifically small pocket pairs and suited Aces. Me, a station, would be very tempted to believe im beat on the river to a flopped set and muck the end. Also gross bluffs normally take some thought since even rec players know bluffing someone off what is often an overpair+ is torching
Hits BB range so depends on BB. If BB range checks in MW pot, then Hero could check it back, but I think the better play is to bet on the largish side, slightly more than half pot. If BB re-raises, then you know to run for the exits. If BB calls, then be very very careful. If Bb folds, and recreational UTG calls, plan on betting most turn cards in absence of additional aggression.
Flop question: bet quarter-ish pot on the flop sounds pretty alright. River question: Fold seems like a good option.. full pot size on the river seems suspicious
Ok, wow good video. I was wrong about her opening range. Just tuck that knowledge away and add my mental chart down to 55 UTG instead of cutting it off at 77. Learning something at a poker table is so much more expensive than college .
I'm betting half pot on the flop with 10's, leaving myself enough for two more bets. The board flops connected but not expecting opponents to have these types of cards considering the preflop bets out of position.
I'm betting flop either 1/3 or 2/3. if 2/3 i'd consider folding to big c/r, if 1/3 almost certainly calling c/r. as played, i'm not sure what I'm doing on river (i don't think i 100% call or fold). I do feel like I'm likely to fold though. what can they really call our raise with on turn that just snap bets river that we beat.. I don't think there are many bluffs here if any
I'm doubling that raise on the turn. RIght now you have the high pair hand and most likely the best hand. But almost ANY river card will be super scary do you really want to see a broadway card? Is it more likely that they have pocket As or Ks or A single Ace or single King? I'm shifting into "equity denial for my opponents" mode. Jonathan seems he wants to induce on the turn with either checking or a smaller bet I just don't think 10s are that bullet proof there.
On the flop I would bet small $125; maybe $150 to fold out any big cards and small pairs. After listening to your explanation, I hate my answer. I also hate Lex's analysis. (I have not listened to your rebuttal yet) but even thought the opponent is a "rec" player and bet small does not mean she doesn't have a set or the straight. A rec player can easily know how to bet for value in this situation, so I would call. Q2. I snap fold. I was already suspicious, but I am convinced that she just boated up. She had two pair on the flop maybe 33. I totally love your analysis BTW. It was a lot closer than I thought. This is the second time you have called LexO for narrowing the opponent's range too much. Since the first time, I have been listening to his analyses through that filter and he does it all the time.
In reality Poker is a guessing game. A lot of the time weakest beginning hands end up as the nuts. Balance and patience (with educated guesses and difficult folds) have served me well so far.
Quiz 1: Bet big, not huge. There are a number of weaker hands that can call a bet that size, but a flopped straight (probably within the limp-caller and BB's rangers) is never folding. Quiz 2: I have no idea. This habit of putting villains on a super-narrow range sounds to me a lot like the old-fashioned idea of "putting them on" a hand. At least when it gets THAT narrow.
I'm betting 300 in this spot to thin the field. After everyone checks there's a decent chance we have the best hand and we want opponents to fold over cards to our pair and deny them equity.
I would bet smaller to try and fold out random Broadway cards and suited A like A8 that has some equity. I don’t expect anyone other than the original raiser to call. Not really worried about sets.
One thing you said that I’ve found to be true. When a lot of money goes into the pot by not usually aggressive players then you’re probably not good. Pot odds aside, when recreationals make big river bets that are reasonable given the size of the pot but unreasonable compared to their typical river bet - they’re almost never bluffing. (Does not apply to battling players) $250 into a $250 pot is different than $1000 into $1000
Just using my experience, without a deep range analysis like the one in the video - I see this line very often from "straightforward" amateurs. It's never a bluff and usually a monster. Most times, when they flop a set multi-way, it's check flop, turn small bet, river small-ish bet. They bet bigger on early streets with their draws. I would've bet the flop. As played, I would've only called the turn and probably also called about a half-pot river bet.
I would bet $125 on the flop. We can get value from 7s,8s,9s and 6x. Also get broadway cards like KQ, KJ, QJ to fold equity, and a good chunk of Ax probably folds equity too. For the river I call or fold. All depends on my opponent. I lean towards call but if my opponent is straightfoward and never really gets out of line, i could maybe find a hero fold.
If we really thought this was a recreational player, the river is an insta-fold. Such players under bluff and too many combos have us beat. But absent real reads, we shouldn't assume this is a recreational player. We should've ripped the $300 in on the flop. If we get raised, we're in the same tough spot, but for less money. If we get called, we will probably put only one more bet in as well, and again we are losing less. As played, the flop check is terrible because so many cards are bad for us given so many people are in. With top pair and overcards in spots like this, pot control is so important. With $400 in the pot heading into the flop, I think we should budget $800-$900 for our hand (unless we hit the T, of course). Here that's a $300 muscular flop bet and then another half pot bet later. Hands that beat us will want more, hands that don't won't.
3:50 Check back. This is a strong/marginal hand multi-way, especially when the flop hits the board of rec players who limped. They could have 33-77 or small suited connectors. If we bet and get called or raised out of position, it puts us in a very tough spot. "If getting raised would be horrible, then check."
Seems like a pretty straightforward hand. UTG limps and just calls the raise, closing the action. Probably small pair, maybe suited Ace or connectors. Flop check around I don't like because like you said, there are almost no turn cards that are good for me. Bet $300 on the flop. Turn lead/call by UTG is either an improved hand on the turn like 98/78 - with no one showing strength on the flop they could very well be in the lead with top pair of 8's; or it could be a very good hand that missed a checkraise on the flop like a set or 2 pair. When they just call the turn raise, they are scared of a bigger hand, like a flopped or turned straight. When they lead the river, they are most likely no longer scared of a straight. They also fear that a straight will now check behind on the river, being scared of the paired board and a possible full house. So they lead. The only hands you beat that lead here are bluffs, or a 98/78 hand that puts you on exactly 65 and thinks they counterfeited your 2 pair. Those are all super unlikely from a rec player. Fold river.
Not sure what the stack ratio is between Lex and the Rec UTG), but I am going to find a nitty fold because I'm 99.998% sure that I'm beat. I think if I shove I get snap called. What do you think a rec player is saying when the make a bet that size? They are saying I have a very good hand, I think I have you beat, and if you shove I'm calling. * Just now saw that you put the stack sizes in the quiz setup, but I paused before those where shown. Wouldn't change my answer about what I would do. However, I don't think the $700 extra from a shove would be near enough pressure to get the UTG to fold.
Ooh that river spot is nasty ouch! You have to figure at these stakes players know how to bluff it's not like you're at the $1/$2 tables where they are so value heavy. It's a single raised pot. Could she be overestimating A8? K8? Could she have really spiked 3s? Could she be bluffing AK? has she turned a boat? I hate to fold when there isn't even a single over card to your 10s. I'm making a "wincing" call and not loving it at all.
I like a large bet get some value and protection with our over pair plus we can get some top pairs/worse over pairs/ and middling pairs to call us I think small is probably fine too I think checking is worse than small and large and I dont really like gigantic just because we’re beat a lot when we get called… now that I think about it I don’t dislike gigantic as much (maybe?)
I would bet $300 on the flop. Likely removes one player and gets us to heads up. Board isn't scary from a flush standpoint, but coordinated from straight standpoint, especially from an opponents likely holding of Ax suited. I have to proceed with caution on the turn if a deuce or four comes.
That river bet has to elicit a fold. Some random rec player virtually never donk bets their missed draw here. It's (almost) always a bet of extreme strength, especially after just calling the raise on the turn. The hand plays entirely like she had a set on the turn, thought you might have a straight, and has boated up on the river *and* doesn't want to check because she doesn't want to risk you checking back.
I presume the opponents are call stationy, so I would go 200 to 400. Most times they fold and loose their excessive call frequency on the preflop, sometimes they call and their range collapses to a tigher range, which is easier to play against, especially from a later position.
I would probably bet closer to 175-200, I think if an opponent has a piece of the board, they’re not folding for this price. Hmm... what hands would our opponents fold to a bet of 175, but not 300? Maybe a bigger bet is slightly better... 300 just seems like a big bet that might scare off our opponents, but we do get max value from 7x, 88,99 and 6x
Bet small maybe 25%-30% pot. Need to be reasonably careful multi-way especially given that it is a connected board and low pocket pairs and small suited connectors are the types of hands that are more often played semi passively pre-flop. That said hand is way too strong not to bet and we do need a fair amount of protection against over-cards. Fold: I don't like it but a player that was passive is leading out big after getting raised on the turn. Our TT is basically a bluff catcher at this point and I don't think they are bluffing the almost 30% of the time we need to be good here.
You would have to know the player well to make this call. Not many snap in almost pot on the river with a bluff. She called (not re-raised) your turn raise because she was afraid of a straight. She boated the river and all but shipped. She named a price.... and it was 85% of pot. Against 85% of sober rec players this situation is a fold. JL is spot on with so much advice, but I don't think this is a hand to gather information with a call🤙
Never checking back 4 ways with an overpair; we no reason (yet) to think we are beat and we can get value from draws and pairs from their terrible ranges. I would likely medium to big on the spot. If they are awful and station-ally, a pot sized bet may just make the most money
I'm betting 300. We have a premium made hand that could use protection and we'll get called way too wide with draws from which we want to charge the max. If we overbet we're only getting called by better.
I will bet after the flop to see my opponents reaction ,but after the turn the TT is no longer a strong hand, its a quick fold with a straight and the board pair easy fold
I usually bet $300 here. Part 2 is harder to me. Wow. I'll answer like Bart Hansen here, "I wouldn't be in this position because I would have gained info on the flop." Lol. I think I call because I think I win enough of the time to make this profitable in the long run. The original raiser folded. I'm less afraid of higher pairs and I think most sets bet on the flop.
Is this the same player who previously submitted a hand from his $1-2 game with a $2,000 plus pot that Little reviewed. A big jump from $1-2 fo $10-25.
Some hands you will just lose..problem is shes made a hand that gives you 0 bluff equity and at the same time the board makes 10s better than top pair and if you bet top pair you should bet 10s..uf you call river with top pair you should call with 10s. You have to find out if she has bluffs in her range and only way to do that is call.
There are a reasonable number of straights in Lex's range on the turn. A rec player could bet her set, get raised, and think, "Oh sh*t, he has a straight. I will call and try to fill up." Now she does just that, and then thinks, "Hmmm. Will Lex bet if I check? I dare not let my full house check through against a straight - I bet!" Which explains the pause before she leads. So I think you have to give her all the sets, quads (!), and maybe 53s. This feels like a clear fold to me.
Yeah. I think he was wrong from the get go. Putting her in the "Rec" bucket was ill-advised considering it's 10/25 game. On the other had, she had a fine read on Lex. And she used this to deftly extract thick value from him.
Looks like she was basically giving you bait to see how she could size the river after calling a 3/4 bet..you gave her the info, either straight or good pocket pair. Then she donks the river more than she was thinking because she knows you are strong..and she just got a full house. Can't trust that bet. I'd fold..it's just tens.
I wouldn’t continuation bet if I had raised before the flop. But he just called on the button, and the flop was checked to him. I’m betting the 653. Maybe $150. I don’t think I’m calling the river without a read. I don’t know if it’s worth that price.
This is a really good point, Jonathan. Having an overpair in a multi-way in position spot is a super common spot where you typically want to diverge from theory.
The River. Unless I had some history on this player I would fold. I think they have 88 and hit their Boat on the river. Fold. Rec players mostly do play straight up poker and their waking up on the turn + river informs my fold decision
The second quiz, I would have to call. If he’s labeling of her as a recreational player is accurate, we should’ve heard of any strong earlier except for specifically 88.
She was the UTG limper. She could easily check 55/66/33 on the flop hoping the PFR would C-bet and then she can check-raise. I think that’s how most people would play those hands.
I think he should of made his river decision before he decided to raise the turn. Yes the board is incomplete at the time but if he's going to punt off and call a donk bet then his turn decision should be an easy flat call to control the size of the pot. He basically pissed away 1700 when he probably would of gotten away with only losing around $550 had he controlled the pot size. I'm not a high stakes player but when I do play higher stakes I always opt for pot control rather than raising with a marginal hand and little info.
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What would YOU do with T♠ T♣ on the flop?
Your Stack (BTN): $2,400
Their Stacks (BB, UTG & UTG+1): > $2,500
Pot: $400
Board: 6♥ 5♠ 3♣
BB, UTG & UTG+1 check
A) Check
B) Bet $125 (small)
C) Bet $300 (large)
D) Bet $600 (huge)
________________
What would YOU do with T♠ T♣ on the river?
Your Stack (BTN): $1,900
Their Stack (UTG): > $2,500
Pot: $1,400
Board: 6♥ 5♠ 3♣ 8♦ 3♦
UTG bets $1,200
A) Fold
B) Call
C) Raise to $1,900 (all in)
Complicated. Presumably the better and first caller do not have premium hands or they would have bet. (?) We are the most likely player to have two pair , and straight draws. We quite possibly have the best hand and we want to protect our equity from two hands with overcards. (Right?) We do not have the range advantage or we should have reraised lp preflop so shouldn't we bet large and infrequently? I go with the3/4 pot sized bet of option C.
This is a tough river decision. Although given the opponent as a recreational player I think you have to make the reluctant option B and call. If opponents have been splashy they can be making this move with an 98, 78, busted over draw.
Flop B/ small bet, for GTO.... but indeed against recreational betting a bit bigger makes sense.
On the river (2 quizes, nice!). I would reluctantly fold. In my live poker experience, recreational players seldom bluff the river by donking you that way. She must have at least a 3. So A/ whinning fold😒
I think you can EITHER check or bet big to put pressure on straight draws
This river bet is so ridiculously strong. Without a read, I have to fold. Calling to understand your opponent's tendencies only makes sense if you will be playing a lot of poker against this opponent for a long time.
Given we raised the turn, Villain knows we are strong. Fold.
true i mean it is less likely to get bluffed into after you raise the turn. I think that was the biggest mistake in the hand.
And hence the bigger sizing on the river.
Yes. She leads small turn wanting a call then when you raise she knows she can put big bet in on river she’s clearly nutted
Trivial fold for me. You raised them on the turn, and then they donked almost pot on the river. No logical bluffs missed imo. Also mandatory bet on the flop when checked to in position. I also don't think 10's are very strong here, this was a multiway pot pre, and so by the turn and river your hand is very marginal, and you are not beating any value hands.
Agreed. I personally would bet small ($125-$150). I think in this scenario you can get more information by how opponents react on the flop versus them calling a check raise on the turn. Also there is a good chance you can get to showdown cheaper. Often the turn can go check check. If the flop has a flush draw I would consider checking more often.
@@MrTjthorso shouldn't you bet more often if there is a flush draw? Another one of Jonathons videos talks about betting in multiway pots and you usually bet more often when the board is likely to change on the turn (i.e. a flush draw that hits) especially with a hand like 10's to give it protection
Throughout video they are labeling the villain here as the 'recreational' player. The way this one played out i think its the total opposite. She disguised her hand very well, played it correctly, and on the turn held back pushing over the top. This way the narrator was super confused about her holding and was hooked in to wager the river call. She played it perfect.
I feel like she was betting small on the set because she was scared of the straights and then she bet big when she got the full house because she didn't need to fear the straights anymore.
Q2: very tricky. If it was someone who's been seen to make aggressive bluffs or plays like this was weaker overpairs, then a call becomes easier bit not easy to make. Lol I play microstakes online and crush live £10 tourneys! 😀 However this play is imo most likely to be an overpair that waited to avoid the flush, a slow played set or possibly a bigger hand. I fold and wait for a better chance!
I feel like I'd go straight nit with it
I think the audio is off sync after minute 14:00
You should always remember that the biggest tell in poker is the action that your opponent takes. When they bet substantially on the river, especially a rec player, they are almost always NEVER bluffing. Recs under bluff tremendously. As you can see by my answer to the second quiz, my playing of the hand finished +$1200 compared to Lex. I didn't get to confirm my read, but I felt very comfortable that I was beat and didn't need the confirmation.
Very good analysis...one of your best videos...i would have added pocket pairs jj+ in the range of her possible hands...not everyone raises them preflop!
Some stellar advice there! I've seen too many people, myself included, fall into that trap in lower stakes.
I had a spot at a live $1/3 game in Cincinnati. I’m on the BB with a $6 button straddle behind. I have red pocket 10’s SB folds, I raise to $15, MP cold calls, folds to the button who 4-bets to $75. Button only have $76 left in his stack. I HATE these shallow SPR spots playing OOP post flop. Seriously considered jamming pre flop, but ended up folding the 10’s. Such a sick spot.. thanks for the video JL
Bet $175 when checked too on the flop, everyone may fold out, anyone with over-cards will probably float, the worst we could be up against is a set
The main problem is Lex’s perceived range is super strong. No one will ever put him on TT with the line he had chosen. With that said, it is really hard to believe the opponent will donk in what looks like a nutted range on the river. I feel like in this particular instance it is reasonable to overfold even better hands , as an exploit
I would go for c) After a checks from BTN UTG and UTG1, it makes sense to raise with an overpair.
Q2. I'd fold. I think they have a 3.
Ok multi-way spot. No overcards came which is good, but there’s a low straight which is a great flop for BB and probably the UTG limper. So with AA or KK I would not be inclined to bet, but TT clearly needs some protection, in the form of a small bet:
(B) $125
If we get check-raised by the recreational original limper we fold, and I think same with BB. I think we have to call a check-raise by the preflop raiser.
$1200 lead from the rec iimper after we raised the turn🔥🔥
Alarm bells. She was trapping with a big hand, like 55, or even maybe scared of the straight, and now has a boat. FOOOOLDDDD.
[nailed the read lol]
This was a very dense and informative video. Learned a lot 👏🏻
Glad it was helpful!
The Flop: Bet $125. Two thoughts. Do I want to continue with 4 players in the hand or do I want to continue to ''hide'' my over pair? I dont think anybody improved their hand and I think my TT is fairly good. But I also dont want to let others catch up ie and ranges could include 9T suited , A9 , KT etc - I dont think anybody has a better pocket pair than my TT. - yet.
Now to bet enough to get people off the pot. I do think any bet will chase some players away so my bet is $125
The flop check caused that whole situation. By being unwilling to bet 3/4 pot on the flop, he cost himself an additional $1,300 in the end. I love when my opponents play as he did. Easy money.
I disagree. This was 4-way pre-flop. The likelihood that someone hit the flop is high. Either 3-bet pre-flop or pot control. His mistake was mixing lines. Just call the turn and evaluate the river.
A low board looks good for TT, but is a difficult spot to play. If you bet small, over cards will have direct odds to call. Big pocket pairs that remain in the three bettors range can call or raise depending on whether the opponent wants to deny equity of cards above their pair. A random two pair or set could just call or raise small to keep in over pairs that are drawing thin. A large bet could see some over cards and 77, 88, 99 fold perhaps, but bigger pairs can happily call. 4 ways I would check and look to realise my equity. The betting on the turn will offer a lot of information from which to make a more informed decision. Yes, over cards are going to come a lot of the time and allow opponents you are ahead of to realise their equity, but betting the flop is unlikely to fold out those hands, so a check makes the most sense to me.
I couldn't fold that river quick enough. I don't see recreational players calling a check raise on the turn and having worse than TT. If they have over valued an eight or 99 so be it.
I learned a lot from this video. definitely a keeper. As for my action - I would have Folded facing the 1,200 raise due to the fact that bluffs scenarios seem lesser than nuts. Excellent vid! 💌
Either 300 or maybe 125 depending on my understanding of the BB and UTG limper... Fold.... Should have gone X/Bet 300, X/X, Bet/Call. He seems to make things hard/more tricky than they need to be a lot.
On the flop I like option C and bet $300. Opponents could be splashy, but there are some draws and you don't want to give your opponents of free draw.
Although if this was heads up I would like option B
Ty sm for turning up your mic it’s perfect
Given all the action, I think river is pretty much an easy fold for me. As Jonathan mentioned, the board basically doesn't have enough bluff hand for us to call this hand. The only hand we beat here basically is 99 and 77 that overplayed because AQ, AK, JJ+ most likely already raise Preflop instead of limp. If we think she can't have 97 or 74 we can't beat at hers range, then we also can't put 85s that we actually beat. Another worth mentioned here that if Lex bet the flop, most likely he will lose minimum because again as Jonathan mentioned, there are just way too many Turn card that Lex don't like.
P/S: I would have miss river value if I played her hand because I will never call a turn raise and lead river. I will basically check/raise 100% of the time if I was in her position. Her line were so strange but who cares, she won the hand with max value. LoL
In my experience, recreational players that arent torching love limp/calling specifically small pocket pairs and suited Aces. Me, a station, would be very tempted to believe im beat on the river to a flopped set and muck the end. Also gross bluffs normally take some thought since even rec players know bluffing someone off what is often an overpair+ is torching
Hits BB range so depends on BB. If BB range checks in MW pot, then Hero could check it back, but I think the better play is to bet on the largish side, slightly more than half pot. If BB re-raises, then you know to run for the exits. If BB calls, then be very very careful. If Bb folds, and recreational UTG calls, plan on betting most turn cards in absence of additional aggression.
Flop question: bet quarter-ish pot on the flop sounds pretty alright.
River question: Fold seems like a good option.. full pot size on the river seems suspicious
Ok, wow good video. I was wrong about her opening range. Just tuck that knowledge away and add my mental chart down to 55 UTG instead of cutting it off at 77. Learning something at a poker table is so much more expensive than college .
nitty fold on the river is my choice because turn raise should show much stringth to opponent
If you can beat 1-2 at HardRock Tampa you can beat ANY game. That was where I learned to play
I bet small I think for protection and to get over cards to fold and under pairs to call.
Missed bluffs have very little showdown which pushes villain range toward value, I think this is a call 25% fold 75%
I'm betting half pot on the flop with 10's, leaving myself enough for two more bets. The board flops connected but not expecting opponents to have these types of cards considering the preflop bets out of position.
I would be tempted to check. I don’t know enough I feel like I don’t have enough information and if that’s the case that I want to check
I'm betting flop either 1/3 or 2/3. if 2/3 i'd consider folding to big c/r, if 1/3 almost certainly calling c/r. as played, i'm not sure what I'm doing on river (i don't think i 100% call or fold). I do feel like I'm likely to fold though. what can they really call our raise with on turn that just snap bets river that we beat.. I don't think there are many bluffs here if any
I'm doubling that raise on the turn. RIght now you have the high pair hand and most likely the best hand. But almost ANY river card will be super scary do you really want to see a broadway card? Is it more likely that they have pocket As or Ks or A single Ace or single King? I'm shifting into "equity denial for my opponents" mode. Jonathan seems he wants to induce on the turn with either checking or a smaller bet I just don't think 10s are that bullet proof there.
On the flop I would bet small $125; maybe $150 to fold out any big cards and small pairs.
After listening to your explanation, I hate my answer. I also hate Lex's analysis. (I have not listened to your rebuttal yet) but even thought the opponent is a "rec" player and bet small does not mean she doesn't have a set or the straight. A rec player can easily know how to bet for value in this situation, so I would call.
Q2. I snap fold. I was already suspicious, but I am convinced that she just boated up. She had two pair on the flop maybe 33.
I totally love your analysis BTW. It was a lot closer than I thought. This is the second time you have called LexO for narrowing the opponent's range too much. Since the first time, I have been listening to his analyses through that filter and he does it all the time.
I'm making a small bet prepared to continue if I face a check raise as the tens are under repped
I think I would bet large here, to keep smaller pairs in and to charge the straight draw on the off-chance they have it.
In reality Poker is a guessing game. A lot of the time weakest beginning hands end up as the nuts. Balance and patience (with educated guesses and difficult folds) have served me well so far.
Just want to say your books and videos have helped me a lot Mr. Little.
Quiz 1: Bet big, not huge. There are a number of weaker hands that can call a bet that size, but a flopped straight (probably within the limp-caller and BB's rangers) is never folding.
Quiz 2: I have no idea.
This habit of putting villains on a super-narrow range sounds to me a lot like the old-fashioned idea of "putting them on" a hand. At least when it gets THAT narrow.
She limp under the gun could had aces or kings also,never would’ve paid that off. I would’ve raise pre flop to gauge the calling ranges.
Its a mandatory bet for value on the flop. I like a 1/3 pot sizing as our opponent's draws have quite low equity here.
I'm betting 300 in this spot to thin the field. After everyone checks there's a decent chance we have the best hand and we want opponents to fold over cards to our pair and deny them equity.
I would bet smaller to try and fold out random Broadway cards and suited A like A8 that has some equity. I don’t expect anyone other than the original raiser to call. Not really worried about sets.
I don’t get why pocket 3s was never an option.
One thing you said that I’ve found to be true. When a lot of money goes into the pot by not usually aggressive players then you’re probably not good.
Pot odds aside, when recreationals make big river bets that are reasonable given the size of the pot but unreasonable compared to their typical river bet - they’re almost never bluffing. (Does not apply to battling players)
$250 into a $250 pot is different than $1000 into $1000
Just using my experience, without a deep range analysis like the one in the video - I see this line very often from "straightforward" amateurs. It's never a bluff and usually a monster. Most times, when they flop a set multi-way, it's check flop, turn small bet, river small-ish bet. They bet bigger on early streets with their draws. I would've bet the flop. As played, I would've only called the turn and probably also called about a half-pot river bet.
I would bet $125 on the flop. We can get value from 7s,8s,9s and 6x. Also get broadway cards like KQ, KJ, QJ to fold equity, and a good chunk of Ax probably folds equity too.
For the river I call or fold. All depends on my opponent. I lean towards call but if my opponent is straightfoward and never really gets out of line, i could maybe find a hero fold.
If we really thought this was a recreational player, the river is an insta-fold. Such players under bluff and too many combos have us beat. But absent real reads, we shouldn't assume this is a recreational player. We should've ripped the $300 in on the flop. If we get raised, we're in the same tough spot, but for less money. If we get called, we will probably put only one more bet in as well, and again we are losing less. As played, the flop check is terrible because so many cards are bad for us given so many people are in. With top pair and overcards in spots like this, pot control is so important. With $400 in the pot heading into the flop, I think we should budget $800-$900 for our hand (unless we hit the T, of course). Here that's a $300 muscular flop bet and then another half pot bet later. Hands that beat us will want more, hands that don't won't.
3:50 Check back. This is a strong/marginal hand multi-way, especially when the flop hits the board of rec players who limped. They could have 33-77 or small suited connectors. If we bet and get called or raised out of position, it puts us in a very tough spot. "If getting raised would be horrible, then check."
He was in position this hand
@@connorcrump3825 yeah I missed that, lol
Seems like a pretty straightforward hand. UTG limps and just calls the raise, closing the action. Probably small pair, maybe suited Ace or connectors. Flop check around I don't like because like you said, there are almost no turn cards that are good for me. Bet $300 on the flop. Turn lead/call by UTG is either an improved hand on the turn like 98/78 - with no one showing strength on the flop they could very well be in the lead with top pair of 8's; or it could be a very good hand that missed a checkraise on the flop like a set or 2 pair. When they just call the turn raise, they are scared of a bigger hand, like a flopped or turned straight.
When they lead the river, they are most likely no longer scared of a straight. They also fear that a straight will now check behind on the river, being scared of the paired board and a possible full house. So they lead. The only hands you beat that lead here are bluffs, or a 98/78 hand that puts you on exactly 65 and thinks they counterfeited your 2 pair. Those are all super unlikely from a rec player. Fold river.
on the flop- Iwould make a bet of 175dlrs. Maybe it´s risky considering the limper an SB and BB still in the hand. lets see how it goes
Not sure what the stack ratio is between Lex and the Rec UTG), but I am going to find a nitty fold because I'm 99.998% sure that I'm beat. I think if I shove I get snap called. What do you think a rec player is saying when the make a bet that size? They are saying I have a very good hand, I think I have you beat, and if you shove I'm calling.
* Just now saw that you put the stack sizes in the quiz setup, but I paused before those where shown. Wouldn't change my answer about what I would do. However, I don't think the $700 extra from a shove would be near enough pressure to get the UTG to fold.
Ooh that river spot is nasty ouch! You have to figure at these stakes players know how to bluff it's not like you're at the $1/$2 tables where they are so value heavy. It's a single raised pot. Could she be overestimating A8? K8? Could she have really spiked 3s? Could she be bluffing AK? has she turned a boat? I hate to fold when there isn't even a single over card to your 10s. I'm making a "wincing" call and not loving it at all.
I like a large bet get some value and protection with our over pair plus we can get some top pairs/worse over pairs/ and middling pairs to call us I think small is probably fine too I think checking is worse than small and large and I dont really like gigantic just because we’re beat a lot when we get called… now that I think about it I don’t dislike gigantic as much (maybe?)
The turn call, then river bet has my alarm bells ringing. I think I’d have to fold, thinking she has trips or an over pair.
I didn’t get so who is recreational player in this hand?
I would bet $300 on the flop. Likely removes one player and gets us to heads up. Board isn't scary from a flush standpoint, but coordinated from straight standpoint, especially from an opponents likely holding of Ax suited. I have to proceed with caution on the turn if a deuce or four comes.
I've never heard anyone suggest ordering of flop before, but had wondered if there was a preference amongst poker content people.
I have always thought high to low since I started taking poker seriously.
That river bet has to elicit a fold. Some random rec player virtually never donk bets their missed draw here. It's (almost) always a bet of extreme strength, especially after just calling the raise on the turn. The hand plays entirely like she had a set on the turn, thought you might have a straight, and has boated up on the river *and* doesn't want to check because she doesn't want to risk you checking back.
I presume the opponents are call stationy, so I would go 200 to 400. Most times they fold and loose their excessive call frequency on the preflop, sometimes they call and their range collapses to a tigher range, which is easier to play against, especially from a later position.
I would probably bet closer to 175-200, I think if an opponent has a piece of the board, they’re not folding for this price. Hmm... what hands would our opponents fold to a bet of 175, but not 300? Maybe a bigger bet is slightly better... 300 just seems like a big bet that might scare off our opponents, but we do get max value from 7x, 88,99 and 6x
Bet small maybe 25%-30% pot. Need to be reasonably careful multi-way especially given that it is a connected board and low pocket pairs and small suited connectors are the types of hands that are more often played semi passively pre-flop. That said hand is way too strong not to bet and we do need a fair amount of protection against over-cards.
Fold: I don't like it but a player that was passive is leading out big after getting raised on the turn. Our TT is basically a bluff catcher at this point and I don't think they are bluffing the almost 30% of the time we need to be good here.
You would have to know the player well to make this call. Not many snap in almost pot on the river with a bluff. She called (not re-raised) your turn raise because she was afraid of a straight. She boated the river and all but shipped. She named a price.... and it was 85% of pot. Against 85% of sober rec players this situation is a fold. JL is spot on with so much advice, but I don't think this is a hand to gather information with a call🤙
Never checking back 4 ways with an overpair; we no reason (yet) to think we are beat and we can get value from draws and pairs from their terrible ranges. I would likely medium to big on the spot. If they are awful and station-ally, a pot sized bet may just make the most money
Sometimes if you arent sure, you can fold if you are at the bottom of your range.
How often do we see huge attempts at bluffs on the river ?
Depends on the opponent!
such a straight forward play, she nicely got some extra money for a new bag from him :D
15" You look for which hands can be
I ask what hands call a 350 more on the turn....
They narrow now
I'm betting 300. We have a premium made hand that could use protection and we'll get called way too wide with draws from which we want to charge the max. If we overbet we're only getting called by better.
I will bet after the flop to see my opponents reaction ,but after the turn the TT is no longer a strong hand, its a quick fold with a straight and the board pair easy fold
I usually bet $300 here.
Part 2 is harder to me. Wow. I'll answer like Bart Hansen here, "I wouldn't be in this position because I would have gained info on the flop." Lol. I think I call because I think I win enough of the time to make this profitable in the long run. The original raiser folded. I'm less afraid of higher pairs and I think most sets bet on the flop.
Fold. Beware river aggression from recreational players!
Is this the same player who previously submitted a hand from his $1-2 game with a $2,000 plus pot that Little reviewed. A big jump from $1-2 fo $10-25.
Love this hand,so many ways to go wrong !
Some hands you will just lose..problem is shes made a hand that gives you 0 bluff equity and at the same time the board makes 10s better than top pair and if you bet top pair you should bet 10s..uf you call river with top pair you should call with 10s. You have to find out if she has bluffs in her range and only way to do that is call.
There are a reasonable number of straights in Lex's range on the turn. A rec player could bet her set, get raised, and think, "Oh sh*t, he has a straight. I will call and try to fill up." Now she does just that, and then thinks, "Hmmm. Will Lex bet if I check? I dare not let my full house check through against a straight - I bet!" Which explains the pause before she leads. So I think you have to give her all the sets, quads (!), and maybe 53s. This feels like a clear fold to me.
Yeah. I think he was wrong from the get go. Putting her in the "Rec" bucket was ill-advised considering it's 10/25 game. On the other had, she had a fine read on Lex. And she used this to deftly extract thick value from him.
i fold on river. River leads by recreationals are very value heavy.
I'd raise 1/2 pot on that flop. I have an over pair and I want to build the pot. I think I have the best hand at the moment.
I like it, very informative.
Not Tampa, but Hollywood Florida, dude !
Looks like she was basically giving you bait to see how she could size the river after calling a 3/4 bet..you gave her the info, either straight or good pocket pair.
Then she donks the river more than she was thinking because she knows you are strong..and she just got a full house. Can't trust that bet. I'd fold..it's just tens.
I would bet 2/3 pot. I would fold to raise and also passive at turn and river.
Tampa, FL where I play, yeah! I would bet $200
I wouldn’t continuation bet if I had raised before the flop. But he just called on the button, and the flop was checked to him. I’m betting the 653. Maybe $150.
I don’t think I’m calling the river without a read. I don’t know if it’s worth that price.
This is a really good point, Jonathan. Having an overpair in a multi-way in position spot is a super common spot where you typically want to diverge from theory.
Sorry to say this but that Hard Rock is not in Tampa
I would bet pot or less depending on opponent
The River. Unless I had some history on this player I would fold. I think they have 88 and hit their Boat on the river. Fold. Rec players mostly do play straight up poker and their waking up on the turn + river informs my fold decision
Will say most rec players over play suited a lot. 🤷 Small set was one hand I had her on.
I'd bet 300 with TT on flop
The second quiz, I would have to call. If he’s labeling of her as a recreational player is accurate, we should’ve heard of any strong earlier except for specifically 88.
She was the UTG limper. She could easily check 55/66/33 on the flop hoping the PFR would C-bet and then she can check-raise. I think that’s how most people would play those hands.
And it turns out that’s exactly what she was doing…
I think he should of made his river decision before he decided to raise the turn. Yes the board is incomplete at the time but if he's going to punt off and call a donk bet then his turn decision should be an easy flat call to control the size of the pot. He basically pissed away 1700 when he probably would of gotten away with only losing around $550 had he controlled the pot size. I'm not a high stakes player but when I do play higher stakes I always opt for pot control rather than raising with a marginal hand and little info.
I would call or jam that river. I put the opponent on A8, 77, or 99. A8 or 99 would have a price to call my jam so I'd jam.
Exactly preflop likely has JJ+ or suited A with a pair
Id make a medium size bet, 200-250 so out of the options given I suppose C) 300 🙂
56 suited makes an interesting bluff candidate
Paired rivers are a highly underbluffed spot. This case is no different.