our obsession with teen girls is weird
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Thank you to @elleliteracy and Luke Smith for the voiceovers ✨
SOURCES/RESSOURCES 📚
Journalist Nesrine Slaoui has done a great job at giving French arab women a voice during the abaya debate.
Fatima Ouassak, Front de Mères, 2020
Catharine Lumby and Kath Albury, Too much? Too young? The Sexualisation of Children Debate in Australia, No. 135 - May 2010.
Mary Jane Kehily, Contextualising the sexualisation of girls debate: innocence, experience and young female sexuality, 28 December 2014.
Liza Tsaliki, Popular culture and moral panics about ‘children at risk’: revisiting the sexualisation-of-young-girls debate, 22 April 2015.
Jessica Ringrose, Are You Sexy, Flirty, Or A Slut? Exploring ‘Sexualization’ and How Teen Girls Perform/Negotiate Digital Sexual Identity on Social Networking Sites, 2011.
Other sources can be found throughout the video :)
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"Innocence is the fetishization of inexperience.” I don’t remember who said it, but it seems spot on to me.
No man wants damaged goods. Do you think you paid more for a young virgin slave at the slave markets in Ancient Rome - or for a worn out slave in mid 20s? You can do all the exercises in the world - it will never be the same....
Oh wow
So sad :(
damn, that is so accurate!
@@babotond It is not accurate at all unless you are some 'experienced' whore trying to come up with a reason why men prefer young pure and innocent girls over your desecrated self. Catholics are in a state of innocence until we are Confirmed. After Confirmation we are responsible for our own actions
Isn't it deeply weird and worrying that 50+ politicians are openly obsessed with teenage girls clothing
Everything is weird. Activist groups lecturing parents about gender of their own kids is also weird.
@@Valkyri3ZBoTh SiDeS. Yeah dude, totally. Supporting trans people is so weird.
@@Valkyri3Zwhen did that happen
@@harsheh happening in Canada. Schools are apparently not obligated to even let the parents know that their kids have decided to change 'pronoun'. lol
@@Valkyri3Z Worst example I'm afraid, the gender identity panic amongst conservatives strongly suggests that elderly politicians' obsession with teens is actually deeper and creepier than just what they wear
Labeling pornstars as "teens" is a huge problem, even if they're not.
1st world problems))
@@ontheline3077pedophilia?
Women are too eager to attack male fantasies, but not their own, like with reading their rich and beautiful-violent to others man. that is suddenly good to female protagonist - trope. Zero self awareness
The thing is they're working. They would fck someone closer to their age if it were voluntarily. But it creates an illusion on older man as if they actively enjoy it when there's a documentary that proves the complete opposite. @@hel3o167
@@ThePetrifiedpeople who consume human flesh start with animal flesh
Holy shit, the response to that letter is absurd. The letter almost reads like a congratulatory youtube comment and yet the guy read it and reached right into his pants
Lol... As a woman: I also read it as if it was a love/erotic letter. It was a bit too much at times, more than a casual fan.
There is a problem with that letter tho. When she says her friend told her not to write, that makes it seem like she's doing something"bad". Could be just a mistake to include that, like TMI but we have to be careful for misunderstandings.
@@User53123The friend told the writer they should say it, though?
@@user-wr8bs8vx9r I mean, as far as I know this is a teenager who likes poetry doing something out of her comfort zone. I get how there might be a reading where there's something more in there, but I still think it's weird to both focus on that and, especially, come back with a letter talking about getting physical
@@VexVerity oh, I had to listen again. Still it could look like her friend egging her on. It stuck out to me, because her friends involved, so I can see how it could be misread.
This ties into that mindset of "men can't help themselves when they're aroused so women need to be modest" like its some hypermasculine flex ie "if you are a male who doesn't think this way you are obviously not straight"
That's a bit of a stretch, don't you think?
Maybe a little, but I've seen the excuse used before a fair bit in my day. "You're not attracted to that and thus not carrying on like an oversexed teenager? What are you, homosexual?" Hell, I was bullied and beaten up and harassed in school by other boys for not being "masculine" enough in that regard ie not being openly loud about being attracted to women.
It's similar to those on the right who argue that being left-leaning as a man means you are "weak" and "effeminate" and "irrational" and "emotional".
@@febatista2932if you’re not able to draw these connections that’s fine, it just means your brain isn’t wired to think abstractly. I’ve studied gender studies in sociology and this comment is spot on. It’s all tied together.
If you aware that something bad can happen to you for dressing a certain way in your surroundings and proceed with it, than what ever bad happens its on you.
I just assumed that I was more righteous than other guys my age because I didn't sexualize women based on how they dressed. That was definitely NOT the reason. Lol
when i heard the first lines of that letter i thought "god no please not an underage girl hitting on her teacher that is so uncomfortable" but when it progressed i was kinda relieved that obviously it wasnt anything other than her appreciating his teaching style. until you showed the teachers interpretation 😭😭 thats auch a horrible situation to be in. i distinctly remember being a teenage girl and just being nice and comfortable talking to men but having to learn that the most normal things will be interpreted in really gross, disturbing ways. like even when i got more guarded, they would still find ways to make me uncomfortable by assuming i had sexual intentions at an age where the concept of having sex was completely unimaginable to me. and someone else thinking about me and seeing me in that way, before i myself ever did, was so intensely embarrassing, i still feel sick thinking about it today.
One of the best things about getting older is experiencing that sort of weird stuff a whole lot less 😄
@@StillGamingTM Guess it's because they no longer have to "protect you," you know too much as you get older.
I agree. It can feel a bit degrading at times.
Alice is uncool map pride is cooler🎉🎉🎉
I wanna add teen boys into it too. Some are matrixed by p0rn like wow. Thank you for bringing sex in the conversation when it was never meant to come in, even some of their friend mention it.
what truly hurts is the fact that some people justify banning modest clothing oh “because in some nations women are forced to wear it”.. but now you are forcing them not to wear it.. it’s just oppressing more women overall.. two wrongs dont make a right
If these people actually had the slightest interest in preventing the sexualisation of teen girls they’d address the endless sexual harassment by their own peers and adult men. They’s address 🌽 and the harmful affects it has on how men view women and girls. Any woman I’ve spoken to about it says they were sexually harassed by adult men in high school far more than they are in adulthood. I was sexually harassed by adult men more often when I was in primary school than I have been since I lost my baby face in my mid 20s. The fuss about teenage girls clothing choices is part of the sexualisation they experience, not a solution to it
I made my own comment about this but I just want to echo you: it’s the ADULTS who have a problem with how teenage girls are dressing. I was in high school in the 2000s: I don’t remember a single instance where a girl was told to cover up by a boy in my class. I’ve talked about it with men my own age now, none of us remember a single instance of a teenage boy complaint about girls dressing “distractingly.” It was always teachers and parents who complained!
Something needs done about how full grown adults are trying to police teenage girls bodies. Both the creepy men but even the PTA Karen who says “your distracting my son!!!” It’s like ma’am, your son wasn’t the one who was concerned with how girls were dressing!
And I’m certain a boy somewhere HAS complained, but if so where did he learn it from if not his teachers and parents who are SOOO obsessed with teenage girls?
@@MeEntertainmentJo_876obviously teenage boys don’t complain about what girls wear because they’d rather the girls wear as little as possible if the dress code allowed female nudity teenage boys would vote for it
I dressed pretty modestly as a teen and still got hit on by older guys. It started from age 11, peaked at 13-14 and then died down in my 20s. Keep in mind that most of the guys KNOW you're under aged, but they go for it anyways . Pretty effed up eh? But girls are the problem i see.
@@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986
i disagree. Society likes to perpetuate the myth that teenage boys are all endlessly horny who are all terribly willing to do anything to have sex, but I do not think that’s true. I think that’s more, again, adults very reactionary and reductive idea of what being a teenager is like than what teenagers actually feel.
@@sirsurnamethefirstofhisnam7986we care about studying and don’t look at every woman we see sexually.
Its funny because I found myself thinking about this a couple of days ago. I was at a ice cream shop and i saw two girls, around 12, dressed in a provocative way and pretending to be adults, even smoking at some point. Don't get me wrong, I do think that a lot of men are obsessed with very young girls regardless if they are still childish or acting more mature, but I found myself wondering if that's really their choice or if they've been pressured to grow up this fast to be more accepted and keep up with the standards they see everywhere. Somehow it was sad to see that being and acting like a child is not considered normal anymore, especially for girls.
i dont know anything about the situation specifically, but i think sometimes when young teenagers act like adults its just that. its a child playing dressup essentially and not fully understanding how they are being percieved yet. and often they will go home and take off the makeup, get into silly pyamas and go back to watching their favorite cartoon or something.
smoking is super shitty though, i would hope kids grow up in a world where it just isnt seen as cool or grown up anymore :(
@@lunabibiane that could also be true, yes. Again, it might be an exploratory phase, so I hope girls their age feel free to express themselves in a way it suits them truly!
@@lunabibianeI agree but as a young girl myself who simply prefers modest clothing, it’s utterly infuriating that half the time the only things that are available or trendy are crop tops, short skirts, etc. Like what’s actually available around and to us, the pressures and conformities, it all contributes to make things just so much harder for us and it’s all by these other people in control - the society and organisations and structures within it that sells these things to us, both physically and culturally.
@@sugabud thank you for sharing, as a woman in my 30s I'm very interested in knowing what young girls are experiencing nowadays and how it differs from my own upbringing in the 90 s and early 00s. I think there was less pressure for us to sexualize ourselves at such a young age, and I think fashion and beauty brands are capitalizing on it tremendously. But what concerns me the most are the psychological repercussions on teens and girls and the way this benefits older men and their fantasies, since we are trying to normalize certain behaviours as we perceive it now way more accessible and acceptable.
@@DreamyJuly17 Yess, that’s an amazing way to put it! I totally agree and I think it’s a shame that girls in the 90s were pushing boundaries that have enabled us to become more liberated and free, but it’s something that I now think is just going too far or getting misconstrued. Like in my opinion, it’s been commodified and capitalised on for the wrong parts - the sexualisation of it, rather than the freedom aspect. I’m not sure if I’m articulating it well, but I feel like we are now in a time where it’s being sold to us that we are free and liberated by buying into the whole “we are choosing to be sexy” thing, but I really don’t think we are choosing it. Like I said earlier, it feels like it’s the only thing that’s available..so now some women just tell ourselves that to make us feel better when really we’re still very much giving into the male gaze etc that’s being subtly forced on us. What else can we do when the clothes being sold to us, the movies we watch, the trends we are given etc are controlled by adults who shouldn’t be selling crop tops and slip dresses to teens
I was a weird teen, and as it happens, a queer one. I did try to provoke people with my dress, but definitely not boys or men. I dressed as weird, conservative and feminine as I could, both to annoy the adults who thought I should be attracting boys and my fashionable peers. I just wanted to embody "different" since I did not consider lesbianism as a valid option yet. My interests, unusual for the time and place, also defined my clothing since innocence or provocation wasn't a consideration.
I can relate as a former weird, queer teen. 🏳️🌈
Before i started dressing butch i dressed “quirky” fem which seems like a big leap, but both styles embodied being different to me, and thats what i wanted to express so yeah i relate
I oddly relate...thank you
I didn't ask, but I made a Hilarious video of a woman crying about her dog being put down because I make better content. ❤
It's not uncommon that children have crushes on adults in their early teens, and it's not common to write "keep it up" letters to teachers, so if I was the teacher I'd be cognizant about that. Basically, a good response would be a carefully worded "feels good to know my teaching style is effective, I try my best for my students and getting direct feedback like this is rare" part before turning to pointing out that they've also done well to apply themselves to learning poetry, congratulating them on that, encouraging them to "keep it up" as well, and telling them to not rule out becoming a poet if it interests them.
Even when I was closeted and pretending to be straight, I never understood society's obsession with young women and literal children. It's gross and has only made me highly wary of straight men.
Pretty sure its the drag queens that are most interested in the sexuality of children. Maybe not as interested as this odd French woman but far more than the average 'straight man'.
As a straight man, it's made me wary of straight men, it weirds me the hell out
another self hating pathetic westerner. Your civilasition is truly in decline)
As a straight man, i have few friends because of this
Straight men are great lmao , you are an Inferior
I feel like the obsession with teenage girls is an obsession with the unpredictable. Especially in a time when a good portion of the western world is walking both towards and away from feminist values and ideals. I feel like we're making the same mistake with teenage girls that we've been making with teenage boys which is to completely ignore who they are as people and to focus on what we want them to be. For girls it's an overt sexualization and adultification and for boys it's a more covert one. The whole thing just weirds me out.
Hmm, I agree. I'd like to add that every individual or group thinks they're right in some way. One way is better than another, culture and society as a whole plays a part. We're all trying to play and beat the same game, but we can't. This is where I say just let people live their lives, but take precautions and take care of yourselves as well. No one is innocent completely.
I would like to see more discussion about boys or men. Women get talked about a lot, but men have always been getting the same things. Surely there is more nuance to their situations like there is with women that we're brushing aside. Sometimes I find it concerning, the amount of attention we give to girls, but not to boys, we've always said the same things, there has to be more.
Yeah misogyny is a coin that affects both sides
The French government banning not only hijabs, abayas as well makes me want to rip my hair out. Schools LITERALLY hate girls showing even an ankle and yet when they want to wear long dresses that cover literally everything it's too ''foreign'' oh my god😭
I swear!!
I think you do not really understand the logic of France here. It has been deemed that the abaya was an ostentatory form of religious expression. Moddest or immodest is irrelevant. France isn't the kind of country that will hastle kid because they show ankles and there still is plenty of room to swim before reaching crop top and hot pant.
Its also worth pointing out that this only apply to the context of public school and public servant. You can wear it in the street, you can wear it while you go to movies, shoping, etc... but the second you go study in a public school, the moment you start your shift as a public servant, you cannot. Your religion cannot and will not be forwarded in something that represent the governement or the State.
If you want religious education, there are plenty of private school providing exactly that. Public school, on the other hand, like any other public service has a duty to remain neutral. The only exception are universities, which is a whole other story in itself.
We do not trust religion to not turn into a shitshow the moment we give them an inch to move in the public sphere, especially public school, were impressionable young kids are easy to manipulate. This kind of mesure is a philosophical sanitary cordon.
@@johnwotek3816 That's a lot of words to try and justify discrimination.
@@johnwotek3816 what youre saying makes no sense and is easily disproven by countries that let kids wear what they want the US UK Canada and Australia all let muslim girls wear hijabs and jewish boys wear kippahs yet there is no sign of a shitshow of manipulation happening in their schools whatsoever but its fine for you to just hide behind your justifications for racism and discrimination saying that youre just trying to be "secular and neutral" when you are pretty much against peoples freedom of choice within regards to their own self expression
@@johnwotek3816confusing subjective knowledge that isn’t even based on personal experience isn’t exactly a strong argument.
Nationalism has caused more human suffering in WW1 and WW2 and still does in form of racism then any other justification tool that humans used/invented including religion yet you see it on the rise again in Europe.
And really not just Europe but everywhere, china, India, Pakistan etc, and really if anything now will trigger WW3 it’s nationalism, but even then nationalism/religion isn’t the root of the problem just a symptom of humans wanting to justify their wrong doing.
Something you are doing by using religion to justify your actions.
It’s a tool for the powerful and wealthy to get what they want on the expense of others and like any tool it’s easily replaceable.
You can also see that even secularism can be used like how USSR used it, and how china does to oppress different groups of people and even commit genocides because they don’t hold the same “values” as us argument as such they are “radicals”.
The stupid “boys will be boys” argument is so full of shit, if someone has messed up getting called out seems natural. Yet the one who talks about the illicit behaviour often gets seen as “mean”, etc.
It's NPCifying uncivilised behaviour bcoz it's "natural"
Boys will be boys and are supposed to be boys
@@ThePetrified yeah communication and not being isolated is key. We can all fuck up on certain things life is complicated.
Boys will be girls -- and take over girl's spaces. There, fixed it for you.
I would say that for me, losing my innocence had nothing to do with sex. I'm American and I grew up during the Iraq war. When I was 17 and taking US history my teacher had us watch documentaries about various wars the US had fought in. I was assigned to watch a documentary about the Iraq war. For the first time ever I felt like I truly understood just how brutal my own country was and how we didn't even seem to see the Iraqi people as fully human. I see losing one's innocence as when someone starts to have a broader understanding of the world.
4:55 It feels to me that the disappearance of the tween category is actually quite relevant in this respect. While tweens aren't sexualised from an adult perspective, I can't help but feel that there was definitely sexuality being expressed and played with in those times. It was in a way that would be more readily recognised by children of their own age, and while not entirely divorced from adult sexuality (a short skirt is a short skirt) was still recognisably childish or kiddy in a way that teen girls aren't really allowed to be now.
I think of the crushes I had on the Disney channel girls as a kid. They were all sexualised up to a point. They weren't wearing potato sacks and the companies definitely chose their actresses based on 'attractiveness'. But they retained a sense of being children and could be easily distinguished from an Instagram baddie or whatever.
So yeah, in a weird way it feels like tweenhood was the perfect way to allow kids to be more sexual than they were before, but without jumping feet first into adult sexuality. If you were following the Disney channel girls style, or the teen magazine stuff you could be romantic/sexual but in perhaps a more low-key and controlled way than posting thirst traps on snap chat at 13 with your entire school following you.
At least that's my impression as a millennial man who grew up with Disney channel. I can't say for sure if it's true though lol.
Yes!!! I think of season 1 of lizzie maguire, Hanna Montana....they were tweens. The clothes did show the occasional midriff, but it was pencil thin, so it still had the element of cute. The colors were bold and had child like patterns.
Even teen fashion had its elements of modesty with layers and multiple elements added to it.
Now, all girls from 13 to women in their early 20s were the same fit.
He should be investigated just because of that ridiculous conclusion about that innocent but none-the-less scholastic letter to her teacher. Wow! What a jerk.
yeah really gross
thank you for speaking up for french muslim girls. I wish there were a broarder solidarity movement. they don't deserve all this hate and punishment..
I'm an immigrant to France, not Muslim nor of Arab decent, and the hate these muslim girls get here in France really disturbs me, I really don't get it. They assume these women and girls are being forced to participate by their families and culture, but it's not true, and the government forcing them to not wear those items to me is no different to the Iranian government forcing women TO wear a hijab or more, lol, to me it's no different, in the end both groups take the women's choice away
Don't feel sorry for them. They made ot to the 1st world country, and can sit on their assets and get benefits 4 life. Especially if they have kids)
As for govt decision, they should abide it. They are guests in France, after all.
@@ontheline3077 so who isn't a guest in France for you? Someone who was born in France? Someone whose parents are french? Someone who has french grandparents/great-grandparents? For how many generations do we have to be french for you to consider us french? I'm french, my parents too but my grandmother is italian, should I go back to Italy, where I've never been and where I don't speak the language? Or is it only directed to Arabs/POC? Do you think white/french people don't also get social benefits? Do you think there are benefits only for Arabs/muslims who have children?
You know the answers to these questions, it's just that you are racist.
@@Melissa-sx9vh There have been multiple terrile terrorist attacks in France over the last few years. Every one was Islamic terrorism. Don't act like you don't know why many French people don't like Muslims or are scared of Islamism creeping into towns and banlieu's across France. There is a reason none in France is afraid of Eskimo's or Polynesians. Stop ignoring the obvious threat extremism and violence from radicalised young muslims has posed in France. You are acting like millions of French people are just racist for no reason. There is a reason they worry about Algerians but have no problem with Vietnamese.
Right I grew up in France as Muslim woman and it’s crazy how the media and government is obsessed with us
It always seems to me that most adults completely forget what it was like to be a teen.
I'm not even Muslim and I own a few Abayas. They're comfortable and stylish. Banning them is absurd.
[As is banning any garment, whether it has religious connotations or not]
The obvious response, in France (and other countries where there's no ban, but where wearing something like like might arouse all sorts of "concerned" looks on the parts of teachers, etc.), is for those girls to have a laugh and wear something like an abaya with a few tweaks which makes it not-quite-an-abaya. Then The Fifth Republic and others would be forced to define abayas in terms of the millimetres of hem line reaching up and not-quite-over the head, etc.
You go girl ! We should be able to wear whatever we want
I didn't ask, but I made a Hilarious video of a woman crying about her dog being put down because I make better content. ❤
@@ville__didn't ask
When I've told my mom about the abaya ban, and my mom is religious but of a"christian" religion, she was a bit flabbergasted, lol. I live in France, but I'm from the US. In the States while we might be prejudice about foreign religions and cultures, for the most part, they are protected under the law, the religions and cultures I mean, so banning any religious garb in public spaces whether it's completely visible or not is almost unheard of in the US. But the abaya isn't even religious, hahahah, so I really don't understand it. The one that really gets me is banning swimsuits that cover a good portion of the body, whether it's a "birkini" or not. Here in France I don't go to the swimming pool unless it's an inside pool, I burn extremely easily and skin cancer runs in my family. But sunscreen is banned at most public pools in France, so I'm like, well, maybe I can wear a rash guard and swim shorts/leggings so that I don't get burned if it's an outdoor pool, but even that's not allowed, and there's no outdoor public pool in France in the areas I've been that do night swimming to accommodate, so indoor pool or nothing. When I ask people about the no rash guards or swim leggings, I get dumb responses like "cleanliness" and how bacteria builds up more with swimming clothes that cover more of the body, and I'm just like, that's bullshit, hahha
The more I hear about France the more I feel like it's not what it's cracked up to be. I mean I was over it when I heard that the French government thinks racism doesn't exist because they don't recognize race.😬 But your comments have just put me over the edge.
They just straight up have banned sun protection of all forms?? What on earth??
That's pretty out there and perplexing to my American ears. It's like "objectification of women is for their safety."
I am not an expert of course, but after a short internet research I found that France banned sunscreens with certain ingredients that break down after some time and can become harmful to the body. Do the public pools acutally ban all kinds of sunscreen? :o
Burkinis are so important for multiple reasons. That swimwear is about inclusion.
You make a note at a little after 8 minutes that girls are told to cover up because they might be distracting the boys. A point I’ve made before elsewhere is that when I was in high school there was never a SINGLE BOY who actually complained about how girls were dressing. I’m certain it’s happened somewhere, but all the men my own age now (in our thirties) that I’ve talked with this about all remember it the same way: no boy ever actually complained about how girls were dressing.
It was the PARENTS and TEACHERS who did all the complaining! I do remember teachers telling students to cover up, but even then the only male person in class who ever said it was ALSO a teacher!
It’s so weird to me that all the boys in my class never articulated a problem with how girls were dressed, but adults in society are absolutely OBSESSED with it.
Obviously they were not complaining
I have thought for years that the policies of forbidding the wearing of traditional modest Muslim garb to school, or to wear "burkinis" at the beach, is just keeping these young women from assimilating into French culture. The ones from more modern Muslimfamiles will go along with it. But the really traditional ones will simply keep their girls out of school, off the beaches, and so forth. They will, as a result, not interact much with larger French society, and will not learn what their opinions are or how to attain them, and the general secularism of French society which motivates these laws will never reach them. They might not even learn to speak much French.
And, likewise, crosses and the clothing of Orthodox Jews, Sieks, and so forth, should also be permitted. Not only will this help children from those families learn to interact with the larger society, it will also let the other French kids learn about diversity.
There is no such thing as diversity in France it is a country focused on assimilation.
i think you meant integrating and not assimilation because integrating means youre a part of the community and society but you are also still keeping your background culture while assimilation is the act of 100% becoming like the host culture ( despite them still not seeing you as one of them no matter how much you do try)
@@olivercetus6956 wrong. He used the correct word.
They want you to completely forget about your culture
~nya :3c @@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl
As a trans man i have an immense sympathy for teen girls. In the years before i knew i was trans i desperately tried to feminize myself before realizing it just wasnt me
Hope life is easier for u after transition)
Life is hard enough being young and queer. Sexualizing afab people/literal children and expecting amab children to do the same just adds so much more pain. I'm sorry that you felt pressure to be who you aren't. 🏳️⚧️
you got that weird scar yet?
Bro you have a problem with your feminity, your transgenderism is probably caused by you not being confident in your feminity. And also there is nothing wrong with attraction to teens.
As someone who is pretty sure they are a trans guy, I never really felt the pressure to feminize myself, but I definitely look afab and as a result I have to be more careful when I go out at night (not old enough to transition).
When I was younger as in highschool I dressed “provocatively” meaning crop tops and tight skinny jeans because I was extremely self conscious and insecure and the only way I knew how to validate myself was through male approval. Now, I find a lot of empowerment dressing more modestly than I did then because I understand that I don’t need others to see and approve of my body for it to be valid. I really enjoy dressing this way because it makes me confident but I don’t like how many people who dress modestly (and specifically modesty influencers) have a superiority complex towards those who don’t dress as modestly. I don’t think bodies should be inherently sexual, but everyone’s coping mechanism towards the constant objectification is good if it makes them empowered
I’m a guy who grew up religious conservative in the USA, and I was very religious personally. I basically believed sexuality, including my own sexuality, was evil, and there is literally no acceptable expression of it until marriage. (I actually followed all the way through on that, got into a very ill-advised marriage at 24, and I’m doing much better now after getting divorced at 30.) I hated women who dressed provocatively, it felt like they were taunting me lol. I know it’s a fucked up way to think, but I had extremely powerful sexual desires that I felt extremely ashamed of, and literally no help from any trusted figure to understand them. (I now realize looking back that I didn’t even have any trusted adult figures in my life, but that’s another story.) The best sex education I ever got was from sitcoms like Seinfeld, which is pretty sad. I think that’s how I even learned that masturbation was a thing, I was insanely sheltered. But my logic toward girls at the time was just, sexuality is bad, I am bad when I am sexual, girls who arouse my desires make me sexual, they are making me bad, I hate them (and also painfully, painfully desire them). I think there’s a lot behind my experience, especially trauma caused by emotional neglect, and I’m still trying to figure it all out now. I still have some very troubling feelings towards women, innocence, and women who I perceive as innocent such as younger and East Asian women. I’m in the process of working through all this. It was very interesting to hear about a teenage female perspective in this video, and I thought I would share my particular teenage male perspective.
you don't have to make excuses for your attractions. Sure your trauma has influenced your sexual desire, but so what. You do realize that everyone is traumatized. I am saying you're fine be attracted to the women you are.... maybe it's not okay to have resentful+fucked up believe about women. But you will not be able to overcome that if you deny your current attraction to innocent women. Go with the follow of life and stop letting traumatized people dictate to you what is an acceptable attraction.
@@carlo.m5233 I agree, I am trying to recognize and accept rather than judge and deny any feelings of sexual attraction that I might have. But there are some ways that these feelings make me uncomfortable in some cases, and I’m trying to integrate those feelings as well. I don’t feel like this is a case of letting other people dictate what’s acceptable for me, but rather exploring all aspects of how I personally feel. It is possible though that I could have internalized some external judgments from others, especially given my religious background, but I hope I will figure that out on the journey and eventually discover what is most authentic to me.
The whole obsession with teens and children as a whole is really weird
No, it isn't. They are a part of society and are worthy of being understood
It is, our society is sick.
Alice is uncool map pride is cooler🎉🎉🎉
To feminists engaging with the hijab issue while being from a completely different background: listen to Muslim women, but please also listen to ex Muslim women.
As someone who grew up Muslim, became super religious as a teenager and started wearing hijab, and is now an atheist, I appreciate how nuanced Alice's take is. Since I've left Islam, I feel like takes on hijab tend to be in two (imo) wrong directions:
Western feminists often defend hijab too much, beyond just the complexity of women who wear it and seem to imply that the principles behind it arent harmful. It seems hypocritical to criticise purity culture and victim blaming within your own culture, but defend something that thoroughly enables it in many others.
On the other hand, lots of people miss how different individuals' reasons for wearing hijab can be (as Alice talked about). In western countries, it can be a mix of family and community pressure, religous pressure (I wasn't pressured by my family, but I did feel pressured by the religion they taught me about to not show any of my body), and social pressures, like wanting to fit in with Muslim friends, or stand out against an antagonisitic society. I know Muslim girls who don't seem particularly religous but have hijab enmeshed in their identity, especially since I grew up in a mostly white area that made hijabis stand out (which does say something about the idea of "choice" for decisions made by young girls).
I strongly dislike hijab and purity culture but also don't think that the French government should be using schools as their battleground for a broader women's issue.
I feel like unless you're Muslim or former Muslim the hijab is really none of your business. Like what do I, an atheist and former Christian, have to add to a discussion about the hijab? Folks need to stay in their own lane.
Almost every feminist argument boils down to the same point: Listen to women who have experience with the topic.
@@lesliewityes and no. If you are living in non Muslim majority country and people around you disturbed by it, you better take their opinion in consideration or leave.
@@lesliewit I get the argument but at the same time, if you apply it to everything. What do i a citizen have to say about a presidents behavor or action, when im not a former President. I think if you see something wrong going on, you should speak on it and not just ignore it bcs its part of their culture. Cultural things can be wrong sometimes, like i know in some cultures they mutilate little girl (private areas) does mean i should ignore it just bcs im not apart of the culture. But, at the same time I get where you're coming from you don't know what its like, but then how about you reach out (educate yourself). Then decide whether or not you personally think it right or wrong.
I really appreciate this comment. As a white/western feminist I try and straddle the exact dichotomy you mentioned. I think it's ridiculous to ignore the obvious role that the hijab plays and has played in controlling women's sexuality, but I’ve also spoken to enough hijabi women to know that their choice to wear a headscarf is usually very much their own.
If western feminists can understand the complexities and nuances of why we wear make-up, shave our body hair, or take on our husband's name, despite the sexist origins and implications of those choices, why can't we extend the same agency to muslim women?
My big break through in this area was when our government tried to ban wearing the niqab. I may have my own private feelings over that piece of clothing, but simply put, the government has no business telling anyone what to wear.
as an AFAB teenager, I used to dress in a provocative way because I wanted to express myself and I have been harrassed in the streets, but I did not see myself like a sexual being at all. In fact, i'm probably asexual
same 🥲🥲 im an asexual afab teen but my preferred fashion style(s) is often considered inherently sexual which sucks bc i feel like it isnt bc it's just accessories n clothes i find cute. i dont get how clothes are inherently sexual but maybe that is because im ace so people see things differently from me:/
Just say girl😨
@@ayaanoooooioo no
I use to follow the girls in the thumbnails when I was younger (tbf I am younger than them) I was really into the dance world back then and all three girls were dancers. I ran a fan page when I was about 12 and I remember whenever I would repost images of the girl in the middle they were almost always grown men commenting descriptive s*xual things on the photos despite the fact that the girl was only 14!
I’m so sorry, that’s really disturbing
I remember thinking when I saw the news coverage about French schools banning the abaya, that the dresses they were showing as examples were beautiful, and something I wouldn’t mind wearing myself, because they are very similar to what I prefer to wear. I like long flowing skirts with a tank top and a loose sweater over top especially in autumn, which gives almost the same silhouette as the abaya they used as an example for what they banned girls from wearing in French schools. I’ve been having a lot of difficulty with my weight fluctuating in the last decade and the long flowing skirts I like are very forgiving because of the drawstring closures so I don’t have to spend more money I don’t have on new clothes if I gain or lose ten pounds and the skirt continues to look good on me and be comfortable.
Old people always think their lives would of been perfect if they just didn't (insert regrets) drugs, sex, not getting enough education...these regrets are forced on the young that's where we live now.
I mean, it's literally the opposite. Old people regret NOT doing enough drugs, NOT partying enough. They want young people to miss out just like they themselves missed out. Misery loves company, and they couldn't bear the thought that young people get to have what they didn't. I work with old people professionally, and never once has any old person ever said "oh, I regret all the casual sex I had when I was young." The opposite is the case. They regret the terrible levels of social control they grew up under. Or as the saying goes: The worst thing about young people today is... that you're not one of them.
@@CC3GROUNDZEROLmao. So you encourage degeneracy. Outing yourself like that is crazy 😭
There is this absolute obsession with the concept of innocence and while I'm sure some children and teens have experienced the more privileged upbringing with some semblances of what may be called innocence, i think on the whole the very concept is a futile and foolish one. Even for parents that do their absolute best they will still impart some neuroses and side effects that were not intended upon their children, and if they don't society will and if society doesn't to the children do it to themselves. The idea is not to control but rather to explain and to contextualize. There is no way of preventing children from losing innocence because they lose it from the minute they start absorbing their surroundings because we as adults are anything but innocent no matter how we portray ourselves in front of younger people. My mother would just explain and contextualize things that I would see in the world and even that gave me neuroses and its own way but I'll take that over some of the proposed alternatives any day
It's a very strange mindset. When they say "protect" they mean control.
It's one of those elaborate forms of showing entitlement.
I hate "modesty" clothing because its only aimed at girls and women.
I'm not disagreeing, but clothing generally doesn't care about men in general.
The modest, the sexy, all are directed at women.
The problem is women are viewed as essentially sexual or sensual beings, so exposing skin is seeing as provocative
I dislike that it’s called modest clothing. I like full coverage fashion as it makes me feel more comfortable, but it doesn’t make me modest haha
In islam, men have their own codes of modesty. They have to cover from the naval to the knee but that’s the very least. If you go to muslim countries the men will often be covered from their ankles to wrists. They have to watch where their eyes go to and must maintain self control. I think this is something people just generally don’t know, but modesty in islam means more than just the clothes you wear; its your attitude, behavior, and your character. Being humble, kind, respectful are of utmost importance.
Men's fashion offers very little variety though. You could argue that "modesty" clothing is the only option for men.
Ive been slut shamed since before i knew what sex was
That’s disturbing and sad.
@@ville__ what the hell does this mean?
I noticed that I was sexualised way too early in life. Around 9. All because I was as tall as a normal adult and beginning to develop curves.. men used to find something ‘sexy’ about me just by talking or passing by. I hated it. I even tried wearing my older sister’s clothes but nothing really helped.
I really felt this, I have been through the same thing at 9 years old.
@@BadAssNigga95 it’s so bad that girls have to go through all that long before they even know what sexuality is
I felt the "Technically I'm Gen Z" cope so bad
Sheesh that letter made me cringe. Thank you for putting these messages out there for all of us to hear.
It's endlessly irritating to hear so many people pretend that complete equality has arrived. Books and messages like the Second Sex should be made accesible to younger audiences. Men need to hear this stuff too. We get taught at a young age that sex is where a man gains something, and a woman has something taken. Forced to look at magazines in super markets and pretend like we're interested. Some get taken across the border to visit brothels just to make us "men". Monsters creating monsters.
Please raise your children to respect each other as equals. Not to fit like squares in a square peg, but to reach out and figure out their own shape by interacting with as many people as they can.
Again, thank you for the message, Alice.
Just don't be a hoe and you're gonna be fine
Everything you said encapsulated my feelings now that i reflect on my teenage years (I only have a few months until I turn 20) My whole teen years were filled with people sexualizing me, whether they were family members, teachers (dress code), or random men on the street. People's obsession with teens is gross, it makes teen girls feel wrong whether of they decide to wear "revealing" clothing or be modest. I've even been told that my outfit was perfect since I "was leaving something up for the imagination" as a minor thats enough to sum up adults gross behavior.
I wore a school uniform ages 11-16 and that was the period I was catcalled the most frequently. It was always on the way home from school, wearing what was supposed to be a protection from negativity. The solution is not oppressing self expression, it’s educating people
big thing for me is in my culture (i'm indian) we wear what is basically a crop top as part of our traditional clothes. i always wore them, even when i was a kid. and it was literally always normal (and also cute. bc i was a toddler). and it was not weird or sexual in any way. but as soon as i swapped out my lehenga (this is like a maxi skirt for yall who dont know) for jeans or shorts, suddenly it was sexual. i started growing breasts because i was going through puberty and suddenly it was sexual. but for me i was literally just wearing the clothes i have always worn and it was just cute clothes that i like dancing and frolicking in.
Loved your video! Also the girl's letter didn't seem weird to me, but the response 💀💀💀💀
Am I the only one who didn't understand what the 2nd letter was trying to say? Bro just started rambling.
thank you for making this video, Alice! I don't often see a lot of people talking about this and I assume it has to be because it's such a deep rabbit hole of gaslighting and .pdfs normalizing being attracted to teenagers. It's gross and... just repulsive. Worst part of it is that this world is run by men with similar viewpoints and we never focus on the perpetrators enough, but instead of young girls who clearly were manipulated.
I hope that we can focus on the source of the problem more, the pdfs, than telling girls they just need to protect themselves. No, these men need to control themselves and seek therapy.
I honestly wish clothing like the abaya were less religiously coded because I would have loved to wear them as a teen. Being able to take back power from men staring at your body without permission is an undeniably positive thing and its ridiculous to ban someone from doing it, especially when they're part of a demographic as vulnerable as teenage girls.
I think you should wear it if you want to. Its not going to magically stop bein religiously coded until people of other religions choose to wear it, plus they’re more a part Arab culture than they are religious since they wore these types of clothing before islam. It made me feel a safe during my teen years and even now. They’re super comfy and you can just throw it on over PJ’s. They can be a bit expensive but they last a long time. I recommend Modanisa, their dresses and abayas are nice.
@@octaviawinter9768Christians wear them here in Egypt they aren't religious
In my opinion, I’d feel more comfortable wearing it (not for modesty but comfort in general). Especially since I cover up all year anyway. But I feel it’s wrong to wear another culture’s traditional clothes 🫤
@@RedDeadReverie go wear it trust me we always feel flattered if anyone wear our tradional clothes
It becomes a kind of thing where we see children as property to be handed over in "good shape" to the next owner. It is weird, I agree.
hi! i'm a muslim girl, and while it's true that a lot of muslim women wear the abaya because of societal and religious pressure, that is not always the case. i wear the abaya because i like it- it's comfortable, i can move freely in it and i can still be fashionable! once i went to dubai, and i wore a long dress with tights and my coat-like abaya on top. my aunt and mother told me i could remove it since the dress was modest and the people here were not as creepy as my home country. i refused to because i enjoy wearing the abaya. to me, an abaya is not something that "protects me from men" or whatever the fuck, but a self-expression. it feels powerful because i too can do anything other people can. i've done model united nations conferences and gotten an award, built robots for science exhibitions and fought mock court trials, all in my abaya.
am i privileged by my experiences? i'm not sure, but i wanted to clear the air that yes while a lot of girls are pressured, it's not a majority.
"the goddamn french government" lmao
Fuck yeah another rebellion
The argument that girls aren’t sexualized is bullshit. My toddler is 22 months. Her clothes are teeny tiny. Shorts for 18 month old boys are bigger than shorts for 4 year old girls! Toddler boys and girls are almost the same size. The difference is like half a centimeter.
I dress my daughter in modest clothes. I will advise her to wear modest clothes as she chooses her own clothes. To me, this means clothes that let her not think about her body. I want my daughter to be able to do a cartwheel without thinking about her body. I want my daughter to do a math test without thinking about her body. I want her to sing, dance, run, knee and laugh without thinking about her body. Studies show that girls perform worse on math tests when more of their bodies are more exposed. This is not true for boys. Boys do equally well on tests whether their in street clothes or beach clothes. I can protect my daughter from the internalized male gaze while also providing her with a comprehensive sexual education.
@@ksenia5199 I was forced to dress in abaya and hijab from a very young age. Still I was very bady sexually assaulted when I was 10. Since then I absolutely hate modest clothing. In our education system girls are blamed for SA I felt like an object wrapped inside a packet. For me modest clothing is dehumanizing.
I think about my clothing a lot when I am out. Is my hijab ok. Is my hair visible.
Also I don't know why I am saying this to you. I'm not in a good mental state.
@@scarl318I’m sorry to hear what happened to you, I hope you get better 🫂
I’m sorry you were SA’d. It’s never your fault. Clothing doesn’t cause assault. Everyone’s definition of modest is different. Based on the definition I teach my daughter, your clothes are not modest. My definition is not about a certain about of your body covered or uncovered. It’s about what’s going on in your head. Someone can wear bikini and be modest. Another person can be completely covered and not be modest by my definition. It’s about whether you are able to do whatever you want without thinking about how you look that is the test for me.
I grew up with a dress code too. It wasn’t as extreme as yours. But it made me feel uncomfortable. It turned my body into a series of objects that needed to be covered and judged. My shoulders needed to be sufficiently covered. My thighs needed be sufficiently covered. Adult men would look at my body and judge whether enough of my body was covered. This was incredibly creepy.
I want my daughter to be able to go through life without feeling like she needs to pull something up and something else down. I want her to love her body for what it can do, not for how it looks.
@@ksenia5199
Thank you
I feel like this topic could be a series of 6 more videos! lol. It's incredible how vital these discussions are, and how so much of this kind of discourse is left out of your typical sex ed class...
thank you for mentioning queer girls at the end of the video, it was a point that crossed my mind right away when you started discussing the topic. I haven't studied the subject in details, but I had a few thoughts while watching your video, and let's say i'm a queer woman (gen Z too!! i'm so surprised, maybe we aren't that far in age - i was born in 99 - btw what do you mean by "technically gen Z"???), i don't really like labels but anyway. Growing up, I kinda refused to wear what would be identified as "girly clothes" (stuff like dresses, skirts, pink clothes, jewelry) in the western culture, because I kinda refused to be 100% a girl. It's not like I wanted to be a boy or anything, i'm quite happy with being a girl, but a lot of the stuff you're supposed to like or do as a girl seemed very uninteresting to me (like wearing makeup, talking about boys, watching stupid reality tv or reading people magazine, being team Edward or Jacob, talking about fashion, playing with Barbies or even worse Pollypockets, etc, etc). So, I don't know if it was tied to my (yet to be revealed) queer identity or something else, but I find that girls/women that are in opposition (or at least, not in full acceptance of) to feminity (and i mean cliché femininity by that, because of course femininity is MORE than just wearing pink and liking "girly" stuff, but when you're a kid, you don't have much nuance or the idea to take a step back right away), are often also in opposition to other normative systems - like heteronormativity, for example. so yeah, there is a link between how one expresses herself (whether it's in a feminine way or not), how you dress and look to everyone else, and how you identify yourself.
But also (second point), I think that women/girls will also dress because they like or don't like how they're viewed (and it obviously depends on where you live, your social class, etc, etc) by others. Going back to my personal experience: I don't often dress too girly, but i'm not too masculine in my fashion choice either, i'm in a sort of in-betweenn which some people will love and others will not, but usually it's fine walking in the streets without feeling observed (too much, i'm not very attentive!) but also without feeling you're badly dressed or hiding yourself. The moment i wear a dress, it's like people (well, let's be honest, men) suddenly ARE WATCHING, and it can be uncomfortable. and it's not just about being watched and talked to in the street! one time, i went to the restaurant with my best friend (who happens to be a guy), and this old man came up to us and started talking about how we made a great couple, asking if we were married or if we planned to have any babies... i mean, the guy was nice and positive, but it felt kinda weird to have a stranger just come up to us and assume and - yeah, my point, wear a dress and you become the embodiment of a "woman" and i'm not sure i like it. I don't want people to see me, and think "oh she has a boyfriend and she'll have kids and she's kind and quiet and caring and sweet and she's just a normal woman". I want to be my own person, to not fit a predetermined feminine model. BUT ANYWAY, i disgress, my point: clothes tell a LOT about a person, and i think - in the case of queer girls - it can also be a way of stepping away from heteronormativity (or playing with it, depending on your mood).
Last point: it can be so hard to want to dress nicely to impress other girls, but also not wanting to have a man watching you, it's a delicate balance to try and find. anyway, thank you for the video (et juste pour la chaîne en général et ta réflexion, c'est toujours super bien construit et intéressant / oh, et merci pour la critique du gouvernement français sur l'interdiction de l'abaya - et leur islamophobie générale au nom de la laïcité - c'est rare de trouver des youtubers qui abordent ce sujet - encore moins des youtubers français.es - vraiment on a un PROBLEME dans ce pays et on joue très bien les autruches. Bref, that's it for my comment, bye!
I always thought that it'd be easier and much nore progressive for society ti teach people(especially men) to control themselves and they are infact responsible for their actions. I know that there are young boys that start to look at their female counterparts, they are going through puberty after all and they haven't experienced this before, but i feel like this is a critical moment for both parties and their formative years. It will be easier to tell this young boys and girls not to sexualize each other and respect themselves and others
I agree. In Islam(touched on in this video), men are taught to lower their gaze first, and men check each other often on this.
“Tell the believing men to lower their gaze (from looking at forbidden things), and protect their private parts…”
[al-Noor 24:30]
Its a matter of Self control and respect to the opposite gender.
How are schools supposed to distinguish between girls who want to wear the modest religious clothing and those who are being forced to? I think girls should be allowed to wear what they want, but I also think they shouldn’t be forced to, which definitely a lot of them are being forced to. Laws probably aren’t a good way of going about this, but it’s difficult terrain to overcome. Edit: I don’t know what to do! Peach and love, peace and love!
I don’t think schools or the law should interfere at all. Banning what someone wears or doesn’t wear shouldn’t be a matter that the government should involve itself in. I’m a muslim girl and i made that choice for myself, i make it everyday even when its hard. I think a lot of people see us wearing it and knowing how difficult it is to exist in the west wearing the hijab and think that the reason must be that we were forced. There are definitely ones that are, but living within the muslim community in the west and the Middle East, i know that most of us are motivated and hold a great love for our religion and our hijab. Forced hijab is usually a small part of a bigger problem, and if there’s a genuine danger in the household then I do think child protective services should be involved.
This video is so necessary!! Thank you!!!!
I still don't (and just can't) understand how some people link childish things with erotic feelings. Like, it's even cringey in a certain way
1:37 the passage itself is really cute. She’s expressing her love of learning and excitement at finding a teaching style that works well for her. The framing is kinda erotic though, idk why you used a mic with less of a dust cover like that, it sounds like ASMR
/journal for experiencing the video
Great video! I have a cousin who is not religious and only wears the hijab because she is used to it and feels exposed infront of men without it, is there past religious trauma behind that? Probably. But banning the hijab is not going to help her at all.
If a girl wears a bikini because her culture taught her that this is what she should be wearing.
Would you say the same?
@@MohamedRamadan-qi4hl theres a difference between telling someone "what they should wear" and giving them agency to choose, or using verbal abuse to denegrate someone and blaming sexual assault victims for what they were wearing.
@@nsjhdhdhdbhsudgvdydb7751 awwwh sweetie you can come to Egypt and see how many women aren't even wearing the hijab.
One third of women in my collage aren't wearing it.
Maybe I was feeling a bit hypersensitive, but the whole passage creeped me out...
The language felt suggestive, although a straight reading is fine, "a roommate pushed me to write this letter to express my feelings to this professor" feels intentional...including the "well I'm not a poet"
(I've paused at 2:47 writing this so stuff may be revealed about the actual origin/speaker/intention)
Honestly it reads like a fantasy the reciever would want to hear... like from a dating sim when you're half way through the "is there a spark" phase of trying to flirt with an NPC...
Agreed.
Lovely analysis as always Alice! As a Muslim woman - very, very happy w the way you explained the abaya, headscarf and the expressive identity of younger Arab/Muslim women. Thank you for being well spoken and well read!
I'll talk abt my experience as a hijabi girl who live in an area where it's cool to wear the head scarf : first I wore the headscarf bc everyone else did it and it was more related to growth than sexuality , then when my body changed I didn't deal with it , I just hated my period and how painful bras were and continued to cover everything up , I never had smth like male gaze , I never experienced being desired and naturally I never felt any desires bc it was deminized and I had more to deal with regarding my self worth at the time and then I got to collage and I started using social media and realized what my body is and how I can ve looked at , now realistically speaking I don't want to wear the jeadscarf anymore but I am in fact forced by my patriarchal society not just my father bc everyone will talk abt me badly if I put it off , btw I'm 19 now and I think I'll migrate one day to a more librated country where I can express myself more and put off the damned headscarf
best conversation about sexuality in teenages is the movie: dirty dancing,
I am truly humbled every time by Alice Cappelle. I see myself as an educated and eloquent person, but she just blows me out of the water.
The analysis is always amazing, in nuance and in content it is incomparable.
Tbh. I often have a hard time understanding stuff and I spend most of my adult life studying higher math, not because she frames it badly, but because of its depth.
It strikes me as strange, patronizing, and deeply hypocritical when people panic about the sexualization of young women.
Nobody ever asks, "there are 12-year-old boys who fantasize about their classmates at night, WHO MADE THEM DO IT??" or "16-year-old boys are watching porn, somebody must have sexualized them!!"
It's extremely obvious to me that, if something is making young people interested in sex, it's puberty, which just happens to occur earlier now than it used to due to improved access to nutrition.
That's not to say girls under 18 *should* regularly be portrayed with exaggerated curves and undersized clothing. And adults should keep a respectful distance from young women. But it makes me wanna sigh audibly and throw up my hands when, on the other hand, real-life girls are made to feel like what they naturally want to do is immoral or disturbing, and in terms of media, when girls aren't allowed to be portrayed as they actually choose to look in real life.
We should just let kids be kids and stop pushing anxieties we inherited from the 1800's onto them. Teach them about hygiene and they'll be fine, at least as fine as any of us were.
This is a really good video and really thoughtfully discussed. Thanks Alice 💗
I hate the conflation of teen with “child”. In most countries the last two years of being a teenager are spent as a legal adult and for many people the 16-19 are spent living as a functional adult as you are allowed to leave school, go to work and patronize adult venues such as bars. Assuming every teenager is still in school with no more responsibilities than a child is just an ignorant take but sadly a very common one.
I think people have lost their brains here. They are all trying to compete over who can be seen as the most moral or good by their peers. I wouldn't be surprised if one of these people starts saying the age of consent should be 25 or 30.
“Child” does sound more like a 12 year old, but I don’t think 16 year olds should be living like adults. I spend a lot of time around 16 year olds for work. I’ve never met one who seems mature or wise enough to live like a functional adult. Some have to be more independent than others- but that is rarely a good thing. They are very easy to manipulate and persuade. Lots of horrible, life-changing choices are made. I’m sorry, but most 16 year olds are just kind of stupid.
Most people would agree that 18 or 19 is old enough. You have to draw the line somewhere.
@@carlo.m5233I think this is kind of a strawman. You have to draw the line between child and adult somewhere. Most people probably agree 18 at most is reasonable. I don’t think I’ve ever heard anyone say age of consent should be older than that seriously. Some people whine about age gaps, but that’s a little different.
I’m sorry, but I work with 16 years a lot for work, and although a lot of them are forced to live more independently than they should, they really shouldn’t have to. Most of them make very poor, impulsive decisions, and are very easily influenced and manipulated. It’s weird, but I really can see a jump in maturity in most people from 16 to 18/19.
Most 16 year olds don’t look like the hot 23 year old actresses who play teens in movies. They look very young. Any guy who wants to date or f*ck them is 100% a creep who either has an innocence exploitation fantasy or just wants a girl who is easier to manipulate and control.
Facts. I'm 17 I always like hanging around adults rather than kids my own age. I feel like I'm 56. @@Seri-dy5dd
Alice you’re such an inspiration,the amount of effort you put into all of your videos is sooo impeccable and highly appreciated🤍🥹
I honestly had the thought that the French government is trying to get immigrants to leave or stop coming through targeting the Abaya.
Exactly!
I feel like the need to present as older than you are comes with a desire to be respected as you see adults respecting each other. Some girls conflate that respect with power, and so they see the reaction they can cause in others by the way they dress as a way to have some power that they might not be used to.
Unrelated anecdote: When I was a teen, I was particularly drawn to goth aesthetics because the look made me stand out, and I was so average-looking that there were repeated instances of people mistaking me for someone else. When I dressed goth, I wasn't "some girl", I was me. People started knowing my name, and that felt important. Now I just dress goth because I look absolutely gorgeous like that, but I don't try so hard anymore - sometimes lightwash jeans and a yellow t-shirt can make me feel just as gorgeous.
Thanks for bringing up socioeconomic class to your analysis.
It’s a bit mad. I never wore short skirts not because of modesty, but because I personally don’t like the shape and look of my legs and ankles. Just like I don’t wear things around my throat (turtle necks, scarves etc) because I hate the sensation around my neck. Clothes are clothes. Do I want to see young girls with ninety five percent of their legs on show, no, society has drummed it into me that it is wrong, but my non-binary child wears them on occasion due to sensory issues and they like the way they look in them. I give them freedom of choice and try providing protection surreptitiously.
People can’t expect to wrap kids in bubble wrap, undo it only when they are eighteen/twenty/twenty one and expect everything to go well.
hey, that was quite a nice change of location at 11:27, lovely place. yeah, not critical for the overall message, but still very pleasant detail.
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also, for any possible audio nerds out there - it’s quite remarkable how internal iPhone’s mic shows itself for this kind of voiceover scenario - the clarity and directional capture are as good as proper widely used dynamic mics and all the street noise isn’t picked up.
proves a point of us as modern humans each having a super-computer in our pockets, even in this kind of small peripheral equipment cases - such as on-board mics, etc.
What you said at 15:13 to 15:18 is interesting since that happened to some of my female friends (Indonesia, mostly muslims). Some of them wear their headscarves at some point during their adolescence or young adulthood and it was done purely by their own choice and as far as I know, none of their family members or peers forced them to. Even some of them only wear the headscarf only in some places/occasion. If they ever go to other places away from people who know them, they would take off their hijab and can go as far as wearing “revealing” clothes that contradict their ‘hijabi woman/girl’ persona.
There are also those who eventually “buka jilbab” or “stopped wearing their hijabs” and if their skin is thick enough to shrug off any criticisms, the society will look past them over time.
So, at the end of the day, although most of the time the reason most of my friends wearing the headscarf is mostly religiously-motivated, it turns out that the choice can be done/not done at their own will.
I love your videos. You’re concise and informative and it’s inspiring. The way you create and explore arguments and ideas is really fascinating and helpful.
Thank you this video was brilliant, you’re one of my fave TH-camrs.
Summers in europe have become so hot it will eventually become the most sensible thing for everyone in the summer to wear light colored, airy, long dresses no matter the gender, like they are worn in the middle east. It is a very easy and basic adaptation to the climate. I say this a secularist.
Also siestas should be systematically implemented in ths summers around the time the temperatures are highest in the day.
thanks for another well made and important video! you are the best in the game
like ur videos bringing more nuance into conversations
Thank you for making this video. I just celebrated my last birthday as a teen, and all of these years after i discovered how the world sees young girls i wanted to know why and what’s the secret behind this obsession by the media, men , women, culture and society. Search after search i couldn’t find a direct answer or any acknowledgment of this. I would also like to add, while i like that the creator did support the wearing of the abaya and hijab i wish more people know that though it is stereotyped that arab / muslim girls are forced to wear it, it is actually true. Painting a narrative that they all are willing to wear it just goes to oppress us more so we should find the balance between acknowledging that some do in fact choose to wear it and some don’t but are forced to. We all should continue on striving for a safer place for the upcoming and current teenage girls.
What I think is incredibly interesting when it comes to the discourse on the sexuality of teenage girls is how often both "can dos" and "at risks" are pitted against each other over the more "correct" way to present yourself as a woman. This encourages pickme behavior and aggression among young women and helps to reinforce patriarchy on both ends of the spectrum.
Thanks for this video, it's really informative and I really enjoyed it :)
I'm 19 and I consider myself as a non-binary queer person. For the longest time I've never really felt like a woman/girl, I didn't like to label myself as such. Because it felt like I was being pushed into a box, it was suffocating. Especially since my mom always emphasized on how I should be as a woman. But I like being and looking feminine, I have an ideal image of myself. I want to be neither male/female, I wanna start out as a blank canvas of just a person with a body that has no indication of it being a woman or a man. (It might be hard to understand but it's a really strong desire of mine). Getting into fashion and expressing myself through it helped a bit. It makes me feel free and closer to that desire.
You are a female by birth and you are free to dress like you want.
You ain’t a non-binary person.
Those prejudices are based on gender stereotypes.
Don’t deny your biology and work on yourself , your self esteem and personality.
Brilliant video, truly.
I think girls have always been sexualized as early as preteens. I don't know barely any girls who haven't experienced creepy behavior by adult men in their childhood. I just think now it's all out in the open and very accessible. It seems encouraged ever since the 80s. As kids all we want to do is to have the freedom the adults have because we are utterly helpless and at the mercy of our parents. One of the easiest and most obvious ways to feel more independent is to be sexual.
Also, 🌽 is much different today from the naked portraits and dirty drawings they used to make back in the day... There seems to be an overall trend to normalize depravity and performance over genuine connection, the only way to have actually good s3x...
yeah im not gonna lie... as someone who has engaged in relationships w older men when she was younger, i would have written something like this with the ABSOLUTE intention of sleeping with him lol. whether or not it would be his fault for engaging with it though? well thats a different matter altogether. i've had both good and bad encounters with older men. but could i have been "saved" from this outcome were these men less "sexualizing" in their gaze? who knows lol
yeah if you are a man who has had some success in writing, art, music, etc., you will have young women come after you. It's just how the world works.
Thank you so much. Good Video. Glad you made it. ❤✌🏼
Thank you for explaining the hijab ban. I dont live in france. I live in Turkey. When I was 13(in 2013), turkey had a hijab ban. We had to take our hijabs off when we enter the school. I remember we always had to be carefull when we go to school trips. People asked me questions a lot about my hijab back then. “Why do you cover your hair? We are secular country this is a school isnt it radical to wear it?” like that. I answered these questions a lot. When I went to high school the law changed. And after that I never had a problem about my hijab. People in my class never asked me any questions about my hijab. My teachers were cool about it.
Now, Younger generation doesnt face this problem. And if you question them you will see they are less radicalized and they are almost same w other children in their classes. They dont feel different from their classmates. They dont feel like “they have to explain themselves. I hate hijab ban. I wish turkey had take their “secularism” from UK not france…
It seems the Madonna / wh*re paradigm (sp?) has no age limit. The hard-line binary view of human existence, especially around sexuality and gender, leads to so much harm.
A great video as always, merci et tout le meilleur.
I originally opposed headscarf bans, but having lived in country with growing Islamic radicalism, my views have changed. A young women wearing the hijab to express her individual identity is unfortunately interpreted by old power seeking men as an endorsement for more conservative and intolerant social policies. Ultimately, it's an issue much larger than fashion, child development, or individual choice. It's an issue of culture, which in the West can be elevated one moment and derided the next.
This letter exchange is so bad, but also so indicative of how we take care of our children as a society. So, our target as a society doing the right thing towards children should be that we should let and even encourage our children to share their feelings, including romantic feelings with adults, teachers, parents' friends, etc., and then the adult who is the target of these romantic feelings should very delicately guide the child to why this is serious and flattering but would never ever be fruitful. This teaches children how to both communicate, how to deal with disappointment, what are healthy boundaries, etc. But because we are so rotten of a society, we try to stop thee children from expressing their emotions, so that the adults are not given a chance to misstep and abuse them...
France is getting weird with bans on modest clothing at the same time fetishizing teen girls and even lowering age of consent. Good vid
I swear that’s creepy and it’s always old men doing it
The way the letter is written by the girl is weird. first off she starts the letter by being shy like it's something to be afraid off. And by the phrase "the way you talk" is so casual. It's weird for a college or high school student to write this way. but if she is a kid or younger, can be considered cute. The main subject of the letter was discussed a bit further. The letter did give mixed vibes. That's why people write the subject of the letter in formal letters to tell the reader what's it about.
Didn't know how best to word this but "I never thought I'd be writing this letter" is somewhat of a trope in letters to Penthouse back in the day, so I can see how it could be interpreted as sexualized. Not saying its right.
Agreed. It did send questionable signals. Not that Kincaid was in the right of course.
Teen girl here can confirm
hej its a really nice video and i hope you can continue publish more like it
Well, first thing first, the term teen itself is social construct. As back then people just went from childhood to adulthood.
And that is more align with biology.
Even today, in some parts of the world like in africa. Some "under age" guy has worked to provide his family. That guy is adult already.
Secondly, even the sensory inputs of audio and visual offer different attributes of info gathering.
Let alone gathering info from reading.
Unlike text, visual media gives more information.
In this case, i can see the reply as a warning for the worst scenario.
Because gathering info from text is not enough. Thats how i can see of why the reply has to include the worst scenario.
Cuz, i can see that he is a wiser man. Thats why i can assume that he has seen the bigger picture here, which including the worst scenario.
Not to mention male and female have different kind of desire. Its all coming back to biology factors.
So i can say, making analogy about human desires (specially visual) from those letters is not the best analogy.
Indeed the word abaya came from the arabic word.
Which means, originally, abaya is not the islamic dress code.
Not every arab is muslim. Not every muslim is arab. Most muslim are not even arab by the way (well, as french white lady, you can be a muslim. No problem. Its not a racial/cultural religion).
But muslim ladies can use "certain abaya" to fulfill the requirement of the islamic dress code (by certain means, perhaps there is a transparent "abaya" out there. That, muslim ladies cant wear it).
Sadly, atleast from cambridge dictionary.
Abaya means "a long piece of clothing that reaches to the ground, covering the whole of the body except the head, feet, and hands, wore by some muslim women"
Even from oxford dictionary, it also mentioned the part "muslim women" in its definition.
So, the mistake has been made even from the core linguistic understanding itself.
The western world loves to make their own definition afterall.
The question to be asked: what the word "abaya" means in french dictionary? Does it make the same mistake as the english dictionary or not?
As a child/ young teenager I was not trying to sexualise myself, I wanted to appear cool within a hierarchy of other girls who were not endeavouring to sexualise themselves , feel pretty, mimic the older girls and have romantic but not sexual attention from boys my age not adults.
7:23 This reminds me of the times we’d talk about TV Serials in class and discuss crushes.
Iran Forcing Women To Wear ABAYA, It's Against FREEDOM OF CHOICE. ALSO France 🤣🤣
You are the only creator from France I listen to, although I speak french. Why? Because you keep your topics and arguments above mentality, nation and identity politics, while staying on top of the Zeitgeist and upholding clear political beliefs. Keep up the good work and thank you very much.