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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ม.ค. 2024
- UPDATE: A funny turnaround happened. You can check it out here: www.nexusmods.com/cyberpunk20...
I was looking for a FSR3 frame gen ghosting fix in Cyberpunk 2077. The answer I got turned out to be a bit more complicated.
FSR3 Frame Generation mods:
Nukem's DLSSG-To-FSR3:
www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/738
LukeFZ's discord server and mods:
/ lukefz
Artur's DLSS Enabler:
www.nexusmods.com/site/mods/757 - เกม
I may be wrong here - I am not an graphics dev (but I have some experience with it). I think the ghosting on cars specifically is mostly a motion vector issue.
Motion vectors tell the engine/fsr in which direction and at what speed an object is moving on the screen (in screen space - not in the game or world space). In the debug view at 1:06 you can see on the top left image that the car is grey while the rest has some color (rgb color corresponds to xyz axis movement). I dont know specifically how are FSR frames generated, but I'd say that the ghosting is a result of everything around the car moving in a certain direction, while the car is almost stationary (realtive to what you see). That might results in FSR not really being sure what to do with the "stationary" car and smearing/ghosting it across the screen since everything around it is moving. When the camera is moved there is also a bit of movement (color) on the car.
Same thing can happen for UI when FSR would try to upscale it. Everything around it is moving, the UI isnt -> ghosting. This is also why TAA has some ghosting as well - it also uses motion vectors to determine the movement of objects on the screen
Nice! :) That might be a reason. Had some guesses about motion vectors but I'm not a graphics dev too
For the sake of sticking to the facts in the video I stopped at a conclusion that FG algorithm struggles for some reason and disocclusion mask let us spot that.
Hopefully some dev who knows the topic could make it clear
@@scz_g Same ghosting could happen in DLSS, the issue is not with either FSR or DLSS but with how TAA works (DLSS and FSR both are advanced forms of TAA, so kinda safe to say the issue is with them too). The growing need of TAA and upscalers are because of new technologies like software RTGI (like UE5 Lumen) which allows games to create beautiful and realistic lighting and reflections but the issue with them is the amount of noise that is produced by ray tracing or the amount of aliasing that produced by using highly detailed textures and geometries which can be effectively cleaned up by TAA. you can see what i mean if you disable anti aliasing in cyberpunk while keeping SSR on.
Now, Temporal Anti Aliasing's uses Motion Vectors to perform Motion Compensation in order to cleanup aliasing effiecently and prevent ghosting, but this method becomes ineffecient when fast moving objects are present.
Technically (still keeping it simple), when the gap between last frame object position and its new position in current frame are big TAA will creates ghosting as it doesn't know how to deal with that gap. The reason why ghosting gets more noticeable the lower your framerate is, is because the object old and new position gap can be massive between the frames and the frames produced per second (fps) is not enough to fill the gaps in time before you notice the ghosting.
@@lonelywolf6604 Hey! Thanks for the comprehensive reply! I think it explains the topic more
I like how youtube is getting better at showing random videos with few views now. Great stuff dude.
Thank you, glad you enjoy it:)
Well said
very detailed informatic video about how frame generation works
Very interesting video! Keep it up
Damn very fine video , i was about to closed within few second but i waited and it turn out to be very informative video.
This problem also occurs with nvidia framegen. And you dont need high speed animation to notice the problem
FANTASTIC VIDEO BRO
my brain hurt seeing this but thank you for this video. my brain cell need some work
I tried fsr 3 frame gen on uncharted 4 and cyberpunk yesterday, im getting a vignette flickering around the edges of my screen. U know any fixes?.
Turning off/blocking vignette is the only way for now. For Cyberpunk, use "disable vignette and sharpening" and "Crouch vignette remover" mods from Nexus. You can look for similar mods for Uncharted 4
@@scz_g Disabling vignette only makes the border artifact less visible (while jumping, running, etc.) in Cyberpunk, but it's still there (and also noticeable in disocclusion mask debug view).
Unfortunately no workaround for vehicle ghosting :(
@@danyalzia6958 Yes, you're right
@@scz_g Can I get a link to those mods?
We can always wait for the official release of fsr3 tbh they are still working on it that's why it's only mods that we are using,im fully fine with it on my laptop being able to play on high frames
is lossless scaling app/ fsr3 frame gen
in the future can be fixed for ghosting???
Hard to say, to be honest: while FSR3 Mods problems with UI in some games will be fixed over time probably, don't know about Lossless Scaling
Also, what most people don't realize there is a lot of ghosting from upscalers alone so wouldn't blame frame gen only: in such cases FG often exaggerates upscaler ghosting
Just wait for native FSR3 implementation
I've tried AFMF with games like The Last of Us: Part 1, Ratchent and Clank: Rift Apart, Valheim... when playing with controller and at base 80FPS-90FPS I couldn't really notice any visual issues when playing but I was also not actively looking for them. I think it's good enough for games like this. But for games with fast camera changes, I don't think I'll enable it.
AFMF is something totally different than FSR3, a different FG tech. It works on driver level, not as in-game frame gen implementation like FSR3 does
Saw the same thing with DLSS just yesterday.
Well... That's a NV thing ( ͡° ͜ʖ ͡°)
Yes PureDark has fix for UI.
Meaning for 2077 or other games?
@@scz_g PureDark mod FSR DLSS XeSS in many games and some have a dedicated build.
I noticed the same when using FSR in Cyberpunk. I tried switching to intel XeSS, which doesn't get the same ghosting behind cars, but also doesn't give as much of a performance bump.
I was doing 55-60fps with raytracing and FSR, but with XeSS it was closer to 50fps and DLSS didn't even reach 40fps, to just decided to give up raytracing and enjoy smooth 70-90 without upscaling.
What kind of fixes the native FSR 2.1 in Cyberpunk without frame gen, is motion blur set to low or high - it literally blurs ghosts behind a car
Guessing that CDPR devs may use a similar trick for FSR 3 FG if they don't manage to find any other solution for now - smudge FG ghosting with some forced blur
@el_androi1203 You might be accidentally turning off framegen when switching to Intel XeSS that's why you see no ghosting (and also less fps). I tried it multiple times using both Nukem9 and LukeFZ mods and it doesn't make any difference to car ghosting (if framegen is actually on when using XeSS).
the game natively has bad ghosting
@@danyalzia6958 I don't have framegen available, I'm on an AMD GPU (7700 XT)
@@el_androi1203 no wonder DLSS performed poorly for you: YOU'RE USING AN AMD CARD NOT NVIDIA YOU DUNCE.
wow
i got no ghosting using the ghosting fix on nexus tho
using the "use_game_upscaler" mode with xess 1.3
CET anti aliasing off worked for me
Didn't for me. Are you using LukeFZ's mod in its default mode? There is high chance you disabled frame gen completely this way
What's your GPU?
@@scz_g LukeFZ 0.10.1h1 default mode gtx 1060 6gb
btw have you tried lossless scaling 2.5 ???
there is 2.6 version but it is not good
@@JxhnRxss Yeah, you blocked frame gen then, that's why there is no ghosting.:( I'd surprised if that wasn't the case
@@JxhnRxss Lossless Scaling Frame Gen is pointless in fast-paced games in any version for now.
High Input lag and not the best look:(
But let it be, I'll make a video about it :)
Edit: Testing LSFG now, they improved input lag a lot since the last time I played with it
Even dlss/dlss fg makes ghosting. Heck even taa let alone makes ghosting.
True, that's why I stripped Cyberpunk from TAA even to check if FSR3 FG ghosting is still there
Since 0.10 version of LukeFZ mod i got no ghosting.
Nice! What is your GPU? Talking about Cyberpunk2077, right?
We're looking for solutions on Luke's discord too (no success so far) so if anyone really got rid of ghosting somehow, want to check it since other folks may find applicable too
@@scz_g Yes, its for Cyberpunk. I found even specific setting for it. ITS MOTION BLUR - it have to be ENABLED to HIGH value in game settings (lol, thats crazy).
I'm playing on 6800XT, however FPS counters do not show FPS increase, but ghosting is completely gone. And there is feeling game is runing simply more fluid.
@@scz_g Bullcrap!
FG wasnt working.... I had to manually replace mode to "replace_dlss_fg" (and use FSR in game - i dont understnad what is going on here - on DLSS i got like 20-30 FPS with FG its around 55), with FSR FG i got around double the actual frames.
As for ghosting its still here but hard to notice until you look at the fast driving car car from top.
And that bottom area of the screen is also not working. I tried to get rid of vignette, but no dice - its still there. Try with motion blur tho, it really reduces this ghosting.
Thanks for explanation man, makes sense - found myself in the same trap once - I meddled with the mod settings while looking for ghosting fix before making this video;D
About motion blur though, it's not working for me - finding out that mb off or at low works better for me. High motion blur is making frame gen "ghosts" more noticeable at 80-140 fps (framerates I tested) for me. Might be a personal preference.
Where motion blur works 100% is fixing native FSR 2.1's ghosting behind the car when frame gen is OFF.
fsr always had that issue
In Cyberpunk yeah, unfortunately :(
you can run xess+fg - shouldnt have smudges that way.
Yeah, you’re right about XeSS being better in a player’s car ghosting than FSR 2.1 (but worse in ghosting of other objects)
With Frame Gen mods on AMD, it doesn’t matter which upscaler you use after all in Cyberpunk, there will be the same fg ghosting
This is a mod. Actual FSR 3 has access to motion vectors. Try Avatar to see real FSR 3 or even MW3
LukeFZ's and Nukem's mods use motion vectors as well :)
@@scz_g still isn’t official just saying. The developers have full access
@@LordChankaXKhan True! But Farming Simulator 22 fails too despite the native FSR3. If Avatar had cars, we would compare it better, that game has definitely the best implementation of FSR3
@@scz_g wait Farming simulator has FSR3?
@@LordChankaXKhan You didn't watch the video? Brooo;D
NFS unbound don’t have ghosting with FG
Yet to try this game, EA made modding harder with latest EA App updates unfortunately
its a mod.....its not the official release. the base game has bad ghosting as well
It has, indeed
Enable msaa x2
Won't help in Cyberpunk 2077, FSR3 frame gen ghosting will happen with or without any upscaling/anti-aliasing method for now
@@scz_g F
For me it's very minor compared to fps gain.
Agree but we can always try to figure out to make it even better
FSR2 is marginally worse than DLSS2 but FSR3 FG is basically matched, which especially makes Nvidia look incompetent/malicious since it works well on their own hardware that they said couldn't do frame gen.
FSR doesn't use ML so needs some work to be implemented properly. While Nvidia... Well, Nvidia is Nvidia, they're big because they sell a lot.
FSR 2 till now is not able to get rid of ugly occlusion artefacts. Its too much to ask for Frame-gen to be near perfect. And Holy shit FSR2 looks way horrible in The Last of Us
The problem lies in ease of implementation I think. While DLSS/XeSS heavily use machine learning to make it "pick&drop" for developers, FSR needs some love to work well
Love != Time and Money spent on development
Too bad. I don't own this game or a pc but this is still sad lol
am i the only one who cant see the ghosting at 2:42?
2:40 - 2:41, try to pause and use < and > keys to go frame after frame
@@scz_g if this is how we have to point it out then does it even matter in a game?
@@mohammedrashid1910 That's the thing with all this upscaling tech and frame generation. Everybody perceives things a bit differently and has different tolerance threshold. I think it's important to point out the defects but it's up to the individual to ultimately decide if that's a thing that's bothering him. Many people just don't notice these things and some people can actually find it distracting.