While I 💯 agree that no one is more eloquent and clear in his or her argument against Radical Islam than Sam, I strongly disagree with the feeling that what he says is uncomfortable in any way. In fact, not only l have I shared his videos widely because of how relevant and rational and relatable they are, but to me, the Red Line and Five Reasons episodes in particular (and all the rest) are like a soothing salve on my nerves. When I feel like I am losing my mind over this tide of antisemitism, I listen to those episodes on repeat to bring me back to mental clarity. Sam Harris has a gift beyond compare for speaking objectively and rationally about truth and social dynamics. 🙏
Minute 11:35 ; the synagogue in Malmö /Sweden has these cement blocks all around as well as other security measures. After the 7 October attack last year, some gatherings there had to be guarded by police with machine guns. I didn’t know that our swedish police carried machine guns…..first time this was visible….. Mind You it is not without cause. Jews in my childhood home town were perfectly safe and accepted before the large influx of arab and other muslim migrants. We, the swedes, were totally unprepared mentally for this kind of political violence (and the other types of gang violence) that followed.
You were “unprepared mentally”?? Approximately millions of people warned you. But you just labelled them “Far-Right bigots” and ignored us. The rest of Europe is doing the same now. Look at French elections. French wanted restrictions on illegal immigration; got Communism instead.
Sam forgot to remind: “Jihad” does NOT mean “spiritual struggle”. Not in any sense that the word is used in modern Muslim parlance. Which is: to struggle for the way of Allah. To fight unbelievers.
you are talking BS Jihad means struggle nothing else could be any struggle, What do you mean by fighting unbelievers? Are you saying Muslims fight Inbeleavers for no reason just because they don't believe? Are you saying Muslims think God is weak and needs people to fight for Him? So why does the Quran state there is no compulsion in religion? Why do you spread lies? Do you believe in God? Do you know God knows what you feel? God will judge you according to your intention and there is no escape from death.
@@MrManny075 God is all-powerful and all-knowing and he judges Muslims Jews and all people according to their deeds. This is also what Jews believe! Perhaps all Muslims should convert to Judaism! problem solved
the word 'jihad' was used for example for the programme to bring family planning (eg birth control) to rural Iran in the 80s - so it can aswell be translated as 'initiative'
@MrManny075 Unfortunately, jihad means Nothing other than pure hatred and violence towards Any "unbelievers" deemed as such by "muslims" period. Which is Exactly what the your "holy book" commands you to do. Simply trying to ignore those facts, doesn't change them. Islam is a violent religion and iron age ideology. That relies on Only fear and the destruction of All others that won't be subservient to its beliefs. Yes. So are All major religions. Muslims however, are currently the Only religious people committing Thousands of acts of terror to spread their ideology. Zero amount of looking the other way, constantly trying to convince the rest of the world. That Islam is "peaceful" can be seen through for the attempted manipulation and lie it is. Put down your radical beliefs and join the rest of humanity that would spread Joy without violence. But you can't, you Refuse too. Over nothing more, than brainwashing. If you pray? Pray for less ignorance and less aggression within yourself. No, I won't ever see your reply, I don't use notifications. I'll never think about you again. Stop being "radical" and just be a peaceful, loving human being. That Will Require you giving up Islamic ideas though. Best of luck, don't hurt anybody. It's not right
Russ Roberts opines on the question of Jews essentially giving up on Judaism and Israel and evaporating -- surely we have done that? Is that not Soviet Jewry?
I agree. Sam did a superb job of exposing blatant double standards in how people approach horrible ideas, and explained to us all, once again, how these horrible ideas are the brain children of violent, unscientific, and confused (unbeknownst to themselves) men. Good ideas can be intermingled with bad ideas. Serial Killers have done good things in their lives but that is seemingly irrelevant because they were driven by destructive ideas and beliefs. For those of us who utilize the gray matter between our ears in a rational and critical manner it is not about regularly making distinctions between different religions. The much needed action is to distinguish bad ideas from good and call out the absurd competitivness and tribalism for what it is: lack of progress and a detriment to all of our well-being.
@@1984isnotamanual I'd call it vintage because Islam bashing is how Sam made his name as a public intellectual, and barring maybe Hitchens, no one does as precisely, articulately and comprehensively as he does. His return as a public voice on this issue was much needed.
@@_bhargav229 ah ok, well he never stopped criticizing Islam so I don’t know why vintage. Also, that’s not how he made his name he made his name as an atheist criticizing religion. He doesn’t seem to bash Islam, id like to know why you use those words
@1984isnotamanual I don't think he ever stopped being a critique of Islam, but other topics (AI, Trump, covid) overtook it as his primary set of concerns, at least if his podcast was anything to go by. To your other points, his atheist beliefs are the foundation of his critiques of Islam, but it is according to him the most salient example of how religion can be corrosive to civilization. The End of Faith, his first book, was in response to the 9/11 terror attacks. He has, on more than one occasion, called Islam the "motherload of bad ideas". If that isn't bashing the religion I don't know what is lol.
As an ex Muslim I see that it's astonishing that Sam Harris gets it right on many issues concerning Jihad and the Muslim mentality. What's even astonishing is he has the ability to articulate it perfectly even better than Ex Muslims.
Because they are under an illegal, brutal occupation, which in Gaza specifically is a slow death. Look up the stats, the UN reports describing what the people in Gaza have been subjected to over the years
Read or listen to Dr Einat Wilf and Gadi Taub for the best reality check regarding what the Palestinians want. Or, better listen to what the Palestinians say. Am Yisrael Chai 🇮🇱🎗️✡️
Read Theodore Herzl, Vladimir Jabotinski, and David Ben-Gurian about what the Zionists want. Zionism is racism, Zionism is white supremacy, Zionism is Nazism.
my father-in-law no longer wear his Kippah into Manhattan, he is a fearless, peaceful, life-long world traveler and a liberal, and yet wears a baseball cap, as a retired Rabbi (high level, full time, real deal scholar ), Sad times
Minute 1:42:43 ; 7 th October was horrific , the second horror for me was when I saw the Instagram posts of the daughter of dear Bangladesh moderate muslim friends…..defending Hamas…..and she is a lawyer raised in the West……, I couldn’t sleep properly for a week!
@@chaitanyakada1341 peaceful religion is christianity! I have the Quran in three different translations to my language and I am literate….I can read for myself…… When I married a muslim man, the son of an ayatollah, I was much more ignorant however. Let’s say I learned the hard way… And: where I live there are many ”palestinians” and other arab immigrants and theough their arrogance and agressiveness and inconsedaration they surely show the fruits of their religion islam.
Islam is 500 years behind on Christianity coercion. From the Spanish inquisition to hitler, massacres called pogroms were regular. They didn't use their own children as human shields though... clash of zombies against humans as they revere death in the name of religion. If your religion needs you to hate, you need a new religion!
I call that confused mind not a great thinker. Sam Harris belongs to Left democrats, the party which supports Islamists, Iran and illegal immgration to US and EU.
What should we do about this? We need honesty about religion for one thing. Particularly monotheism. We need to bluntly acknowledge that the hell belief is the prime indicator of the pathology of the god concept. It’s so obvious.
Sam makes the obvious claim that the specifics of belief matter . Different religions equal different beliefs equal different goals in shaping the world .
I disagree about the mental health aspect. You can’t be psychologically healthy and truly believe in Islam. Not without eventually realizing how crazy it is.
Those stone barriers you saw in front of the NYC Synagugue have been erected for decades around synagogues in Latin America and other countries in the world as well. So this is also true elsewhere, not just in the US
Solution lies in Palestine to become an autonomous region within Israel. Like Scotland or Catalonia. Effectively Palestinians should accept to become Arab Israelis with great autonomy. This is only possible if the Palestinians give up militancy.
Minute 1:30:51 , what did S:t Augustinus say/write about the just war? It was in the situation of the nordic barbarians destroying the roman and christian civilisation
@ef2718 Example, if you compare it to Syria, where 2% of the population was killed that was done in 13 years. Israel has killed that many people in 10 months. Israel holds the record on most journalist killed most aid workers killed. This is Oxfam - Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day which exceeds the daily death toll of any other major war. 15 January 2024 CLARIFICATION: Using publicly available data, Oxfam calculated that the number of average deaths per day for Gaza is higher than any recent major armed conflict including Syria (96.5 deaths per day), Sudan (51.6), Iraq (50.8), Ukraine (43.9) Afghanistan (23.8) and Yemen (15.8). Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam | Oxfam International Bartov is historian of the holocaust and is considered one of the world's leading authorities on genocide. His doctoral thesis on the Nazi indoctrination of the German army and its crimes. Not Nazis diets. Google indoctrination.
Conditions and Intentions:The intentions (niyyah) behind one's actions are crucial in Islam. For a soldier to be considered a martyr and thus attain paradise, their actions must be based on genuine faith and a sincere intention to serve and protect the faith or community, rather than personal gain, aggression, or unjust causes.The context and legitimacy of the conflict also matter. Classical Islamic jurisprudence outlines strict rules regarding warfare, including the protection of non-combatants and the prohibition of unnecessary violence.
I think that's exactly what Sam is trying to say: there should be a movement within Is...lam that takes those passages more seriously than the passages about k...ing infidels and j...s or a destiny of global caliphate.
@enshrinehd if we take Palestine from the year around 640 AD when arabs conquered it. There was peace until 1100 AD when the crusaders came. Then there were wars for a 100 years.Then there was peace from 1200 AD to 1900 AD. So in 1500 years of Islamic rule it had only 100 years of war. That shows thar Islam doesn't produce a violent society.
And would we win WW2 today ( after all of Sam’s reservations). We have to do things, sometimes, that are onerous in order to not tolerate the intolerant. He is right that moral warfare can only work against a civilized enemy. Our challenge is to fight evil 100% while maintaining our civilization.
Sam: if we had to fight WW2 again we would lose. You can’t worry about “fair” in war. You don’t do more than is necessary, but you do what is necessary.
I would guess that most of the protestors were clueless. Americans are not bothered and like to celebrate their own ignorance. Dunning-Kruger phenomenon. Those who are least knowledgeable are most confident of their knowledge.
*Some samples of LAST 20 years:* Nigeria Boko Haram 350,000 dead Sudan JEM/Darfur 300,000 dead Yemen Houthis 233,000 dead Pakistan vs Islamists 50,000 dead Syria 500,000 dead South Sudan 400,000 dead Ethiopia and Eritrea vs Tigray 600,000 dead No protests for all these dead. These were not pushed on the smartphone screens of these useful idiots in a well organized campaign.
15:50 CNN's headline on the incident Sam describes: "Protests Sunday outside synagogue in Los Angeles: Social media shows police pushing pro-Palestinian demonstrators"
“I want to warn parents” yes it’s lofty to think that parents are sitting 7 years olds down “hey kids let’s try to understand something that’s baffled politicians and historians for 60 years”
There are very few, if any moderate religious people. Indoctrination of children and teaching them dogma, superstition, fiction, etc as truth is immoral.
Let’s pretend I’m Russ Roberts for a minute so I can ask you anything I want: how do you like your coffee? And What’s your favourite booze before that? ❤ For me it’s brandy and/or lager or ale ( not that big of a fan of pielsen nor cider ) then double espresso with cream and I can tell you all about how it got to brandy and double espresso if you’d wanna hear it that is
Some info about Judaism. The treatment of children and infants varied and could be harsh by modern standards. In some biblical narratives, such as the conquest of the Canaanite cities, all inhabitants, including children and infants, were sometimes commanded to be killed (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). This was often justified in the text as a means of preventing idolatry and ensuring the purity of the Israelite community.
I don’t see how this is relevant to modern Judaism. There is a good progress of modernity in religion but judging one by the past when the entire world was different is a non sequitur
@SarahRugheimer Israel existence is justified by the Old Testament. So Israel believes it has the right to clear the land of non-jews as its the requirement in the Old Testament. Christians are required to help Jews in this endeavour.
@@everythingandmore5537 (My comment here is only tangentially related to yours so it's more of some random thoughts here rather than a direct reply!) I don't think most Jews believe that they have a right to clear the land of non-Jews. There are some fringe hard-right religious Jews with that view, but that is not the dominant Israeli opinion. Of course 20% of Israeli citizens are non-Jewish so Jews live with non-Jews in Israel peacefully. I do believe Jews are indigenous to the land and have a valid claim that way and likewise Palestinians are indigenous and have a right to live there as well (my personal opinion is that works best in a separate state). But even if Jews weren't indigenous, Israel would still have a right to exist. Many countries have a right to exist even if the inhabitants are not indigenous (ie Canada, New Zealand, Australia, the US etc). The reference to Amalek in Netanyahu's address is a parallel and only corresponds to Hamas.
@SarahRugheimer The Right of Return should apply equally to Jews and non-jews. How to the government the area from the river to the sea? A 3 state solution is the best. A Jewish state based on the 1947 partition plan. A Palestinian state is based on the green line. A mixed state of the land in between. Each state contributes a third of the seats in the Knesset.
@SarahRugheimer Given Netanyahu's previous statements and the political aims of his party, what makes you so sure he was only referring to Hamas with the Amalek reference?
I haven't finished this yet---but please stop calling these pro-hamas protestors. People marching for Palestinians who support Hamas is an extremely small minority. Many of us are Jews.
Minute 53:45 , There is no contradiction between prayer and rational, scientific based action for a christian/roman catholic! ”Ratio et fides”, ”ora et labora” etcetera. We believe that God created the world with a specific order and that we are supposed to navigate within this order and explore it with our rational minds. Rationality is part of ”the image of God”. Christians do not believe in magic (or should not!). There is even a specific spirituality in the Catholic church that makes this the central focus in life, ”Opus Dei”; to always do one’s best at work and offer it up as a sacrifies to God while at the same time maintaining a strict prayer routine.
I like Sam, but it's been a theme for him to conflate all religiosity with the type of dogmatism he sees in Islam. Interestingly even when he at the same time acknowledges that religions are different.
I think his point was that many use prayer a technique for healing. And given there is very little scientific evidence that praying is efficacious compared to medical intervention, it would be irrational to choose a prayer vs medical practitioner .
If Sam comes on again, I would love for you to discuss effective altruism. Listening to you both for many years, I know you have different perspectives on the subject.
Minute 54:13, Read : ”How the Catholic Church built the western civilisation” by professor Thomas E. Woods In the middle ages there was no modern science in Europe or anywhere in the world. The scientific revolution came about in the christian universities because of a specific way of thinking and method as opposed to merely compiling empirical data or elaborate in lofty philosophy which was common in learning centres in other parts of the world. Islam , example, has a different world view that couldn’t promote systematic natural science. Chinese had advanced techniques but didn’t develop science based technology, Note, that there is no coincidence that jews from the West seem to be more prosperous and advanced than the jews from the East.
@@MrAbuYaz the only persian jews that I have met live in Europe…. They inform me that there are not many jews left in Iran. However, I grant You that my statement need to be revised: there was very prosperous jewish population in Iraq, what happened to them?
19:49 Yeah. I don't want to get stabbed for a conflict I have no stake in either. I guarantee this guy is the exact same on thousands of issues, minus a few close to home.
He lost me on settlements. Israelis should be able to buy land and live in any part of their land, which includes the West Bank, which by international law belongs to Israel, until there is agreement with Arabs that states otherwise. Giving up land ahead of negotiations is same as giving land without any security guarantees.
@@mznxbcv12345 borders were determined by British, who OWNED the land at that time. After that UN PROPOSED partition plan, which was rejected by Arabs, so no change. Then Arabs attacked and won the West Bank in an illegal war of aggression, so, no change. Then Arabs attacked again and lost the territory to Israel, that won it in a LEGAL war of defense, so, West Bank belongs to Israel two times over. It doesnt matter what international community or UN say. International law is applied equally to all countries and that is how it is normally applied to all other countries. No matter how UN votes, they can’t make the law applied differently to Israel. West Bank belongs to Israel by international law. Period.
@@mznxbcv12345: The Allied Powers (British, French, etc) defeated the Ottoman Empire in 1918. As part of the surrender agreement, the Ottoman Turks *ceded* all their Middle East land to the Allies. The British and French were under no obligation to give that land to the current occupants, but they did. The Hejazi Arabs, who fought with the British Lawrence of Arabia, were given self-rule in 99% of that land, much of rich in oil (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan). The Jews also fought with the British and in return they were promised the right to reconstitute their ancestral homeland in Israel, from the river to the sea. That right still stands, unless they give it up. One-fifth of Israeli citizens are from those Arab families who accepted life in the newly-founded Jewish state in 1948. They made a good choice... 🇮🇱🙏💙
Thank you for telling the fact that Gandhi was delusional pacifist. His methods only worked with the British., not with Islamists.. He couldn’t stop the Partition of Bharath./ India.
How about double standards in case with Russians in Ukraine before war started Sam? Or in that situation double standards are ok. ? How about double standards in war in former Yugoslavia Sam? What about those double standards ? When you use double standard ( almost always in case of U. S foreign affairs),sooner or later , double standards will come home.
There's something about the way Harris talks about stuff that makes it seem like he doesn't feel emotions very strongly. It feels like he views the world in a muted color palette. I don't know, I just feel sad listening to him.
I'm a big fan of Sam. I even subscribe to his podcast. But I wish he would stop identifying Jewishness as a religion and accept that the reason genetic tests can identify Jewish heritage is because it is an ethnicity. A Jewish person csn elie e in the religion or not, but that doesn't change their ethnicity. As such, if there can be a Germany or a France, an Arabia or a China, there can be an Israel.
@@winkingfox7125I've heard him many times refer to it as a religion, including his history (pre-Oct 7) of questioning Israel's right to exist based on the erroneous characterization of it as a nation based on religion. It is not. You are right that Jewishness is both an ethnicity and a religion. But Israel's existence is, and should be, based on it being the ancestral homeland of the ethnically Jewish people. Referring to the religious aspect plays into the false claims by Israel-haters that it is an 'ethnostate.' It clearly isn't. Proving Jewishness to move there doesn't include proving any level of religious observance.
The latest signs I asked God for was the big solar flare for May 11th Aurora Borealis and big solar flare for 8.4.2024 Aurora Borealis. The anniversary of God's first nine sentences to me of fifty. I told people, timestamped it on line..what more. I have been doing this for nine years punching holes in Islam. I don't even have any videos of me online..
1:28: you perfectly explained our dilemma; the west must toggle between tolerance and war when necessary, after which we go back to tolerance. This is our goal. It’s hard but we do it (WW2).
RUSS ROBERTS SHOULD KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE A MUSLIM, YOU ARE ORDAINED TO FOLLOW ISLAMIC LAW AND GOVERNANCE. IN A COUNTRY THAT VALUES SECULARITY, THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY AS THE MUSLIM COHORT INCREASES.
I agree with Harris on Islam 100%! It's here not to to assymilate or cohabitate, it's here to conquer. Period. This issue made Harris come back to sanity away from his mental obsessions with vaccines and Trump derangement syndrome, to his genius self.
You understand that just because someone believes Trump is at best an enormous lying narcissist who shouldn't be let anywhere near the oval office doesn't mean he's suffering from a "derangement". It just means he's observant. Labelling someone as having a made up "derangement" who doesn't hold your views, or who holds differing views to you is just disingenuous. Its a low effort escape hatch from havinf to engage on the topic in detail. I've listened to and read a lot of Sam Harris. He may hold views some agree with and some don't, but this man isn't deranged even a little. He's one of the most calmly rational public intellectuals we have and we're better off with his voice out there, even if you don't like what he says about Donald Trump.
These are those who moved out of the middle east and left it behind. The fact that they do not live in an overwhelming islamic environment might have an effect.
AIPAC is a legitimate lobbying organization supported by American citizens. Qatar is not. AIPAC did not establish a political fundraising and endorsement vehicle until fairly recently. It is a necessary organization. There are too many anti-Israel operators in Washongton.
Minute 1:33:33 ; pacifism = let the thugs inherit the earth…, life experience taught me the value of good locks & alarm system and occasionally calling the police!
Dear Sam , I have never heard such propaganda since the last time you opened your mouth. Sometimes when the Truth hurts so badly, one might need to look at one’s self. No one is above reproach, even Israel.
Can you name a few things that Sam has said that was propaganda in your view? What’s the point of saying anything if you won’t actually respond to at least some of his points? It’s not like you’re talking to Sam, because you’re really talking to everyone else who might respond to you.
@@jmc5335 *Some samples of LAST 20 years:* Nigeria Boko Haram 350,000 dead Sudan JEM/Darfur 300,000 dead Yemen Houthis 233,000 dead Pakistan vs Islamists 50,000 dead Syria 500,000 dead South Sudan 400,000 dead Ethiopia and Eritrea vs Tigray 600,000 dead No protests for all these dead.
Minute 1:31:10 , of course we shouldn’t fight in that way. I visited Dresden in the mid-ninethies….they were still sorting out the rubble of what once general human heritage
That was the most excruciating interview I've ever listened to on EconTalk. I was hoping for more transparent and honest thoughts from Russ who I look up to incredibly. Yes, there's an obvious problem and has been for decades with radical Islam. But the way Sam approaches it is more of the same ideology from the past: kill, eradicate, indoctrinate. Those ideas are essentially what I heard from Sam. Ironically, it's the same ideology of Radical Islamist. I think part of the issue is Sam is not religious. He leans on his 'religious experience' of Buddhism, but as a devout religious person it sounds hollow: "I mediated for some weeks and months." Sam cherry picks the violent parts out of Islamic texts. You could do the same with most religions. There are other ways to find peace, even with the 'bullies of the world' and unfortunately most of those ways are slow (trade deals, partnerships, finding what we agree on (ex. Saudi Arabia). Look even Qatar is slowly changing and I think the World Cup helped them be more flexible and change. But the fast ways: kill, eradicate, indoctrinate can backfire. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The response from Israel now is backfiring - yes, most Israeli's don't want to hurt Palestinians, but the way their government (Netanyahu) is dealing with the war does not reflect that. And that's part of the reason Israeli's are upset and protesting against Netanyahu.
Russ Roberts you and your thought train is the problem, Sam is sharp and what i don't understand is what part of his exposition you don't want to understand. and stop saying "you make me uncomfortable" you should be indeed, and the problem is there is no solution to this problem until they get what they believe.
I am Tunisian and I was trying to give him a chance and listen to him but the point about Spain translations being bigger project than Arabic projects and since the 7 century is a lie. He is also so boring.
And the Lord said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Jeremiah 11:9 Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. Daniel 9:11-12 Hear this word which I take up against you, a lamentation, O house of Israel. Amos 5:1 Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the well-favored harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts. Behold, I am against thee, saith the Lord of hosts: and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will show the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame. And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and will set thee as a gazingstock. Nahum 3:4-6 Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations. And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations. Ezekiel 5:8 As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. Daniel 9:13-14 And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them? Exodus 32:21 Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testified against them by thy spirit in thy prophets: yet would they not give ear: therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands. Nehemiah 9:30 For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins: they afflict the just, they take a bribe, they turn aside the poor in the gate. Amos 5:12 Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Turn ye now from your evil ways, and your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me, saith the Lord. Zechariah 1:4 For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed her. Lamentations 4:6 Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. Isaiah 1:4-5 But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the Lord, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity. They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity. Micah 3:8-10 And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, unto this very day. For they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shat say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God. And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them. And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briars and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, not be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they are most rebellious. Ezekiel 2:3-7 We have sinned, and committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. Daniel 9:5 Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Amos 3:1-2 O Israel, return unto the Lord thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. Hosea 14:1 The Lord hath been sore displeased with your fathers. Zechariah 1:2 But thou hast utterly rejected us; thou art very wroth against us. Lamentations 5:22
Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us; for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly. Nehemiah 9:33
I have been listening to both Russ and Sam for over a decade and love their content for the most part, but both (and especially Sam) seem to be quite misguided on this topic. How can this topic be discussed for 2 hours without once going into the interplay of geopolitics and how Islamism rose to where it is now. I have not heard Sam ever discuss the founding of Israel or conditions on the ground in occupied territories since. How have peaceful, secular, and/or Christian Palestinian movements been met by Israel? Perhaps most importantly, why is the well documented direct funding of Hamas by current Israeli political leaders (with the expressed purpose of foiling peace negotiations) not discussed. Islamism is one of many factors at play in this conflict and Sam treats it as the one and only.
While I agree with your question at face value, I am afraid that the latter part turns it into a loaded one, revealing your own presuppositions that are not exactly based in reality. I will yry to address them below. Hamas was formed in 1987 as an islamic charity, affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood (formed in the neighboring Egypt 60 years earlier). At the time (you may or may not recall that it was right after the 1st intifada) it was viewed by some in the Israel as a more peaceful alternative to the secular radicals of the PLO and its terrorist fellow travelers. The Al Qasam brigades came later and generally changed that perception. If you look at the map it is very difficult to envision a "contiguous Palestinian state" drmandrd by the "international community" comprising of Gaza and W Bank without severely undercutting Israel's secirity. This is a major reason why many in Israel would prefer to have the two as separate entities ruled by separate administrations. It is hardly some nefarious conspiracy. Finally, the accusation of Israel directly financing Hamas is a lie, plain and simple. In reality Israel has been against both the PA and Qatar transferring funds to Gaza ever since Hamas violently took it over in 2007 and began using it as the base for launching incessant attacks. There has been a lot of pressure on Israel to change this policy, not the least from the US, and finally Israel relented and allowed the transfers. Somehow that has been turned into a false narrative of "Israel financing Hamas", which could not be further from the truth.
@@lordgaga8022 the point is these things are not even discussed as though they are not important and Islamism explains the whole conflict. Your second paragraph is pure supposition. Even Hamas in their revised charter signal at agreeing to peace behind 1967 borders. The truth is Israel will not accept ANY sovereign Palestinian state. West Bank settlements continue to expand to make two states impossible. In response to graph 4. It just isn’t. As I said the strategy is well documented and explicitly part of Israeli policy since 1996. Multiple former Israeli cabinet members have testified to this effect. It seems like it would be a good strategy but it backfired because Bibi didn’t take seriously the threat from Hamas leading to embarrassing security failures on sept 7th (again well documented). Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan. These countries are no less Muslim than the Palestinians. The reason they won’t make peace with the Palestinians is they want the land and fewer Arabs on that land. An honest accounting of the founding of the country and the goings on of the last century would indicate that very clearly
The 2017 'amendment' to Hamas's charter can be viewed as a signal of recognition of Israel only if you ignore two conditioms that are absolutely unacceptable to the Isrselis: 1. "Return" to the 1967 "borders" (in fact, armistice lines) entails surrendering the Old City of Jerusalem. During Jordan's 1948-1967 occupation all Jews have been ethnically cleansed from Jerusalem and had no access to their most important cultural and religious sites. If Jerusalem is handed over to the Palestinians, Hamas has every intention of implementing these policies (recall that the Oct 7 'operation' was called the Al Aqsa Flood, its stated intention - to purge Jewish presence from the Temple Mount). 2. The so-called 'right of return' (btw enjoyed by no other refugee population in the world, as is the recognition as refugees in perpetuity and the criteria of qualifying as such by only having been present in the Mandatory Palestine two years prior to 1948) implies the end of Israel as Jewish state. Since the need for Jewish state arose due to the fact that Jews have been a persecuted minority for two thousand years, reverting back to a persecuted minority, ruled over by an extremely hostile majority is also a nonstarter. While I am perfectly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt due to your fairly superficial understanding of the issue, Hamas does not get such pass. They knew perfectly well that Israel will never agree to these conditions and their inclusion in the charter are purely cosmetic, only to provide the fodder for those who, like you, are willing to overlook the substance of their position. I do find it quite telling that you are willing to give Hamas a pass, despite their rhetoric and actions, while you claim that "Israel will not accept ANY sovereign Palestinian state", despite the fact that pre-Israel Jews have agreed to all of the proposed partitions of the Mandatory Palestine (that is, after 78% of the original territory was "gifted" by the UK to the Hashemites of Mecca), which the Arabs flatly rejected, followed by Israel's offer to return all the territories captured in 1967, except for the strategic Golan heights and Jerusalem, met by the three NO's of Khartoum, and all the sunsequent negotiations, including the Oslo agreements. The fact is that with the exception of Jerusalem, Israel views the territory transfers through a security lens. It is willing to make concessions as long as they do not present an existential danger, so the more it is threatened, the less likely it is to agree to them. Unfortunately that cow has left the barn on Oct 7 and now it is not just the marginal ultrareligious Zionist minority that is against the territorial comcessions, but the overwhelming majority of the general public. "Setterments" issue is also not as significant as you make it out to be. There are three types of settlements: 1. the official incorporated townships along the 1967 armistice lines, including Jerusalem's Old City and its eastern suburbs. These are home to the vast majority of the so-called settlers. Since the townships are incorporated, their territories are strictly defined and all the "expansion" takes place within, as in building additional housing units, and does not involve adding new territory. 2. settlements on the public lands, and 3. settlements on the private land belonging to the Palestinians or in Areas A and B according to the Oslo accords. The first category is envisioned as remaining part of Israel, with the Palestinians being compensated by an equal sized area. The latter two exist in a legal grey area, the two reasons for allowing them are: 1. to provide additional securoty against attacks from W Bank and 2. a cost charged for Palestinian intransigence in negotoations. The general understanding is that they will be dismantled as soon as these two reasons are no longer relevant. My second paragraph contains easily verifiable facts. Curious which part you consider a "suppostion" and why (that you may not have been aware of these facts does not make them a supposition). As for your response to my 4th paragraph, "just isn't" does not qualify as a serious response at all, more like a childish tantrum at something you disagree with. Better try next time. Your final paragraph is indeed a pure supposition that is entirely predicated on logical fallacies.
@@Fsgs233most of what you’ve said here is false. However, let’s assume that what you say is true. If the Palestinians decided to be peaceful - no more terrorism, no more daily rockets flying into Israeli neighborhoods, no more obsession with killing Jews, do you believe that Israel would not want a 2 state solution? You make it sound like Israel just wants the land, and that’s disingenuous. The vast, vast majority of Israelis just want to live in peace, without having to run into bomb shelters every day and without having to be aware that at any given moment, Jihadis are looking for cracks in security in order to kill them.
@@Theworldisupsidedown-ou8vh it’s a great point. The irony of you pointing out the rightful indignation of Isrealis under mostly futile and ineffective bombardment should make you think about what has happened to Gaza in the last several months to make it into an uninhabitable hellscape. Is this a path to peace.
I'm at the 15 minute mark of the video so far and I stopped. I'll resume after I make this comment. So I'm an American Jew. And I'm part of the 30% or so who vote Republican. While 70% of American Jews including Sam Harris, vote for Democrats. And I'll add my two Jewish sisters to that sin. So for 15 minutes Sam has been 1000% correct about how Jews in America are suffering from a level of anti-semitism that we've never seen before. But this is what makes Sam Harris a damn hypocrite. So far in the first 15 minutes he never said once who is responsible for the anti-semitism in america. He's never said the d word once! He never said it's Democrats! Sure we all know it's the far left wing of their Looney Tune party. But the worst part of the Democrats, like my two sisters, is that they almost never condemn the far left of their party!
Only 3% of the Quran and Hadiths talk about an "internal battle" when they refer to jihad (struggle). 97% of Islam's jihad refers to a holy war "in the way of Allah".
Not sure why Russ keeps inviting people from the political commentary community onto his podcast though. Looks like another guest who can't distinguish the difference between Zionism and Judaism. Got to somewhat disagree with Russ's take on 2022 World Cup. Sam Harris doesn't realize that Hamas is a Zionist based organization. 37:00 Why isn't Russ concerned about the nature of Zionism? 💀💀💀
Wow, now you want to change the vernacular. You're trying so hard to find your anti semitism loophole. Hamas and Islamer J.had is anathema to God and life.
The entire section from ~1:42:00 is hilarious. >They defend their coreligionists regardless of the crime! >They use money to push their interests! >Stealth-islamism! He's even smirking all through it. But suggest that Jews defend their coethnics regardless of the crime, that they push their interests in all ways feasible, that Jewish lobby is stealth-zionism, and you'd hear it's all false, and if it's true, it's a good thing, and perfectly understandable/defensible.
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I am so grateful that Sam is able to speak open and honestly on this topic. He is a gem for Western Society.
@@Kyzyl_Tuva 🤡
He is a lone exception.
@@Kyzyl_Tuva You are grateful for a hypocrite?
💀
@@FlamingBasketballClub would you like to elucidate the hypocrisy ?
No he isn’t, he’s a steaming pile of crap
I'm grateful for this dialogue and also want to give both of you credit for the courage to say what is difficult.
While I 💯 agree that no one is more eloquent and clear in his or her argument against Radical Islam than Sam, I strongly disagree with the feeling that what he says is uncomfortable in any way. In fact, not only l have I shared his videos widely because of how relevant and rational and relatable they are, but to me, the Red Line and Five Reasons episodes in particular (and all the rest) are like a soothing salve on my nerves. When I feel like I am losing my mind over this tide of antisemitism, I listen to those episodes on repeat to bring me back to mental clarity. Sam Harris has a gift beyond compare for speaking objectively and rationally about truth and social dynamics. 🙏
I mean, the man did blame Jews for their own genocide and oppression. But apparently he gets to because he's Jewish
Minute 11:35 ; the synagogue in Malmö /Sweden has these cement blocks all around as well as other security measures. After the 7 October attack last year, some gatherings there had to be guarded by police with machine guns. I didn’t know that our swedish police carried machine guns…..first time this was visible….. Mind You it is not without cause. Jews in my childhood home town were perfectly safe and accepted before the large influx of arab and other muslim migrants. We, the swedes, were totally unprepared mentally for this kind of political violence (and the other types of gang violence) that followed.
It is a tragedy for Sweden. And in Ireland, our government is admitting people en masse from the same cultural background.
Never forget those leftists like Sam Harris are the ones who supported Islamists and illegal immigration to the West.
You were “unprepared mentally”??
Approximately millions of people warned you. But you just labelled them “Far-Right bigots” and ignored us.
The rest of Europe is doing the same now. Look at French elections. French wanted restrictions on illegal immigration; got Communism instead.
@@anneoconnor5907 You lose the audience once you start making this about migrants (well, most of the audience).
Never forget the USS Liberty and the men that died that day.
Thank you Sam Harris for fiercely being you.
Harris is spot on, Thanks EconTalk.
Sam forgot to remind: “Jihad” does NOT mean “spiritual struggle”. Not in any sense that the word is used in modern Muslim parlance. Which is: to struggle for the way of Allah. To fight unbelievers.
you are talking BS Jihad means struggle nothing else could be any struggle, What do you mean by fighting unbelievers? Are you saying Muslims fight Inbeleavers for no reason just because they don't believe? Are you saying Muslims think God is weak and needs people to fight for Him? So why does the Quran state there is no compulsion in religion?
Why do you spread lies? Do you believe in God? Do you know God knows what you feel? God will judge you according to your intention and there is no escape from death.
@@MrManny075 God is all-powerful and all-knowing and he judges Muslims Jews and all people according to their deeds. This is also what Jews believe! Perhaps all Muslims should convert to Judaism! problem solved
כל כך הרבה לא נכון. עצם המילה איסלאם פירושה כניעה. ברור שהמיצווה היא להכניע את הלא מאמינים. צריך רק להקשיב, זה נאמר בקול צלול וברור.@@MrManny075
the word 'jihad' was used for example for the programme to bring family planning (eg birth control) to rural Iran in the 80s - so it can aswell be translated as 'initiative'
@MrManny075
Unfortunately, jihad means Nothing other than pure hatred and violence towards Any "unbelievers" deemed as such by "muslims" period. Which is Exactly what the your "holy book" commands you to do. Simply trying to ignore those facts, doesn't change them. Islam is a violent religion and iron age ideology. That relies on Only fear and the destruction of All others that won't be subservient to its beliefs. Yes. So are All major religions. Muslims however, are currently the Only religious people committing Thousands of acts of terror to spread their ideology.
Zero amount of looking the other way, constantly trying to convince the rest of the world. That Islam is "peaceful" can be seen through for the attempted manipulation and lie it is.
Put down your radical beliefs and join the rest of humanity that would spread Joy without violence.
But you can't, you Refuse too. Over nothing more, than brainwashing.
If you pray? Pray for less ignorance and less aggression within yourself.
No, I won't ever see your reply, I don't use notifications. I'll never think about you again. Stop being "radical" and just be a peaceful, loving human being. That Will Require you giving up Islamic ideas though.
Best of luck, don't hurt anybody. It's not right
One of the best on Eco talk, just for talking the bare truth
Really laid it out here. I like the format, and I appreciated the questioning.
I love you, Sam! Thank you for this great episode!
Thank you Sam . Life of Brian on repeat.
Very informative interview on Islam.
Russ Roberts opines on the question of Jews essentially giving up on Judaism and Israel and evaporating -- surely we have done that? Is that not Soviet Jewry?
The world needs more of Sam's reasoning.
Yeah Sam awesome man🥺❤️
@@OriginalOogway same way muslims think whole earth belongs to them and their god
Not if destruction of society is the evolutionary goal. I love Sam too though.
Stop saying radical Islam ! as though it's different to normal Islam. Islam is radical in a civilised society.
All ideologies have their heterdoxies
As though you know enough about Islam to make that assessment.
I agree. Sam did a superb job of exposing blatant double standards in how people approach horrible ideas, and explained to us all, once again, how these horrible ideas are the brain children of violent, unscientific, and confused (unbeknownst to themselves) men. Good ideas can be intermingled with bad ideas. Serial Killers have done good things in their lives but that is seemingly irrelevant because they were driven by destructive ideas and beliefs. For those of us who utilize the gray matter between our ears in a rational and critical manner it is not about regularly making distinctions between different religions. The much needed action is to distinguish bad ideas from good and call out the absurd competitivness and tribalism for what it is: lack of progress and a detriment to all of our well-being.
Most of the Islamic communities in the world are much more civilised than the western world. They maintain crime rates lower than lceland.
@@hmmmahroof3602: Authoritarianism and oppression is not what we in the west call 'civilised'.
Vintage Sam Harris. Outstanding.
Why do you say Vintage?
@@1984isnotamanual I'd call it vintage because Islam bashing is how Sam made his name as a public intellectual, and barring maybe Hitchens, no one does as precisely, articulately and comprehensively as he does. His return as a public voice on this issue was much needed.
@@_bhargav229 ah ok, well he never stopped criticizing Islam so I don’t know why vintage. Also, that’s not how he made his name he made his name as an atheist criticizing religion. He doesn’t seem to bash Islam, id like to know why you use those words
@1984isnotamanual I don't think he ever stopped being a critique of Islam, but other topics (AI, Trump, covid) overtook it as his primary set of concerns, at least if his podcast was anything to go by.
To your other points, his atheist beliefs are the foundation of his critiques of Islam, but it is according to him the most salient example of how religion can be corrosive to civilization. The End of Faith, his first book, was in response to the 9/11 terror attacks. He has, on more than one occasion, called Islam the "motherload of bad ideas". If that isn't bashing the religion I don't know what is lol.
As an ex Muslim I see that it's astonishing that Sam Harris gets it right on many issues concerning Jihad and the Muslim mentality. What's even astonishing is he has the ability to articulate it perfectly even better than Ex Muslims.
Sam Harris had finally spoken clearly about his own understanding of current affairs. Perfectly correct.
*Why aren't Palestinian supporters protesting for Hamas to surrender? Why didn't Hamas surrender on October 8th?*
❤
Becuase Palestinain supporters and Hamas sympathizers immigrated to the west via policies made by lefties like Sam Harris and George Soros.
Because they support it, the idea of differentiating between Palestinians and Hamas is a western fantasy
Because they are under an illegal, brutal occupation, which in Gaza specifically is a slow death. Look up the stats, the UN reports describing what the people in Gaza have been subjected to over the years
@Tired-hm4tw there is an answer already, you must not have been paying attention
Read or listen to Dr Einat Wilf and Gadi Taub for the best reality check regarding what the Palestinians want. Or, better listen to what the Palestinians say. Am Yisrael Chai 🇮🇱🎗️✡️
They're both amazing, tell it like it is.
Yes. They are the truth.
Read Theodore Herzl, Vladimir Jabotinski, and David Ben-Gurian about what the Zionists want. Zionism is racism, Zionism is white supremacy, Zionism is Nazism.
עם ישראל חי ❤
Hadi Taub is a horrible Netanyahu mouthpiece
He is Toxic
Great discussion, Sam is on fire here - 35:55 is the funniest
my father-in-law no longer wear his Kippah into Manhattan, he is a fearless, peaceful, life-long world traveler and a liberal, and yet wears a baseball cap, as a retired Rabbi (high level, full time, real deal scholar ), Sad times
Minute 1:42:43 ; 7 th October was horrific , the second horror for me was when I saw the Instagram posts of the daughter of dear Bangladesh moderate muslim friends…..defending Hamas…..and she is a lawyer raised in the West……, I couldn’t sleep properly for a week!
You don’t understand Peaceful religion. Do research on it and learn more about it.
@@chaitanyakada1341 peaceful religion is christianity!
I have the Quran in three different translations to my language and I am literate….I can read for myself……
When I married a muslim man, the son of an ayatollah, I was much more ignorant however. Let’s say I learned the hard way…
And: where I live there are many ”palestinians” and other arab immigrants and theough their arrogance and agressiveness and inconsedaration they surely show the fruits of their religion islam.
Havent been an;e to sleep fpr a decade since reading this comment. TO think someone could be under so many layers of hasbara
Islam is 500 years behind on Christianity coercion. From the Spanish inquisition to hitler, massacres called pogroms were regular. They didn't use their own children as human shields though... clash of zombies against humans as they revere death in the name of religion. If your religion needs you to hate, you need a new religion!
Sam Harris is one of the greatest thinkers of our time.
I call that confused mind not a great thinker. Sam Harris belongs to Left democrats, the party which supports Islamists, Iran and illegal immgration to US and EU.
Sam Harris WAS greatest thinker of our time!
@@dezurniprovokator373 What changed?
@@ronfine69 Playing stupid and “not seeing “ Russian concerns about NATO expending
What should we do about this? We need honesty about religion for one thing. Particularly monotheism. We need to bluntly acknowledge that the hell belief is the prime indicator of the pathology of the god concept. It’s so obvious.
Sam makes the obvious claim that the specifics of belief matter . Different religions equal different beliefs equal different goals in shaping the world .
Minute 56:05 , ”the power of bad ideas are more alarming…. ” Sic! Indeed….
I disagree about the mental health aspect. You can’t be psychologically healthy and truly believe in Islam. Not without eventually realizing how crazy it is.
any religion falls under that umbrella.
You people clearly know nothing about mental health
No other religion has a bible so aggressive towards western religions
@@rutiwit Which western religions?
@@jmc5335 Judaism, Druze, Baha'i etc
Those stone barriers you saw in front of the NYC Synagugue have been erected for decades around synagogues in Latin America and other countries in the world as well. So this is also true elsewhere, not just in the US
Solution lies in Palestine to become an autonomous region within Israel. Like Scotland or Catalonia. Effectively Palestinians should accept to become Arab Israelis with great autonomy. This is only possible if the Palestinians give up militancy.
Great insights. Thank you for the upload. 🙏
*Why doesn't Hamas stop using civilians as human shields, and end the war right now by surrendering?*
Never surrender. they have enough friends outside.
Minute 1:30:51 , what did S:t Augustinus say/write about the just war? It was in the situation of the nordic barbarians destroying the roman and christian civilisation
@ef2718 Example, if you compare it to Syria, where 2% of the population was killed that was done in 13 years.
Israel has killed that many people in 10 months.
Israel holds the record on most journalist killed most aid workers killed.
This is Oxfam -
Israel’s military is killing Palestinians at an average rate of 250 people a day which exceeds the daily death toll of any other major war.
15 January 2024 CLARIFICATION: Using publicly available data, Oxfam calculated that the number of average deaths per day for Gaza is higher than any recent major armed conflict including Syria (96.5 deaths per day), Sudan (51.6), Iraq (50.8), Ukraine (43.9) Afghanistan (23.8) and Yemen (15.8).
Daily death rate in Gaza higher than any other major 21st Century conflict - Oxfam | Oxfam International
Bartov is historian of the holocaust and is considered one of the world's leading authorities on genocide.
His doctoral thesis on the Nazi indoctrination of the German army and its crimes.
Not Nazis diets. Google indoctrination.
26:04 “I should become a Nova Scotian”, might not be the first choice there bud😂
Conditions and Intentions:The intentions (niyyah) behind one's actions are crucial in Islam. For a soldier to be considered a martyr and thus attain paradise, their actions must be based on genuine faith and a sincere intention to serve and protect the faith or community, rather than personal gain, aggression, or unjust causes.The context and legitimacy of the conflict also matter. Classical Islamic jurisprudence outlines strict rules regarding warfare, including the protection of non-combatants and the prohibition of unnecessary violence.
I think that's exactly what Sam is trying to say: there should be a movement within Is...lam that takes those passages more seriously than the passages about k...ing infidels and j...s or a destiny of global caliphate.
I am unfamiliar where this ideal has been demonstrated in the past 17 centuries.
Then why do the people who take the religion most seriously and literally consistently create so much misery in the world?
@enshrinehd if we take Palestine from the year around 640 AD when arabs conquered it. There was peace until 1100 AD when the crusaders came. Then there were wars for a 100 years.Then there was peace from 1200 AD to 1900 AD. So in 1500 years of Islamic rule it had only 100 years of war. That shows thar Islam doesn't produce a violent society.
@Itsstuff7328 most Muslims don't read the quran. They live by common sense.
And would we win WW2 today ( after all of Sam’s reservations). We have to do things, sometimes, that are onerous in order to not tolerate the intolerant. He is right that moral warfare can only work against a civilized enemy. Our challenge is to fight evil 100% while maintaining our civilization.
At GW 33 of the encampment were arrested only 6 were found to be students.
"Jewish intellectual sees power slipping"
Sam: if we had to fight WW2 again we would lose. You can’t worry about “fair” in war. You don’t do more than is necessary, but you do what is necessary.
I would guess that most of the protestors were clueless. Americans are not bothered and like to celebrate their own ignorance. Dunning-Kruger phenomenon. Those who are least knowledgeable are most confident of their knowledge.
You are spot on about Dunning Kruger effect.
*Some samples of LAST 20 years:*
Nigeria Boko Haram 350,000 dead
Sudan JEM/Darfur 300,000 dead
Yemen Houthis 233,000 dead
Pakistan vs Islamists 50,000 dead
Syria 500,000 dead
South Sudan 400,000 dead
Ethiopia and Eritrea vs Tigray 600,000 dead
No protests for all these dead.
These were not pushed on the smartphone screens of these useful idiots in a well organized campaign.
35:46 - you guys didn’t put the link in the description to the episode.
Good catch! It is this one: www.econtalk.org/a-lively-debate-on-the-israeli-palestinian-conflict-with-robert-wright/
@@econtalkwithruss ah I know that guy, he had a couple of debates with Christopher Hitchens.
15:50 CNN's headline on the incident Sam describes: "Protests Sunday outside synagogue in Los Angeles: Social media shows police pushing pro-Palestinian demonstrators"
“I want to warn parents” yes it’s lofty to think that parents are sitting 7 years olds down “hey kids let’s try to understand something that’s baffled politicians and historians for 60 years”
Timestaps would be nice
1:36:01 SahihBukhari is really written for the reader to try evoking The Day of Judgement by initiating conflict with jews
Plus many of us stand guard as a team
There are very few, if any moderate religious people. Indoctrination of children and teaching them dogma, superstition, fiction, etc as truth is immoral.
But you should teach them God promised Israel to Jews.
Let’s pretend I’m Russ Roberts for a minute so I can ask you anything I want: how do you like your coffee? And What’s your favourite booze before that? ❤
For me it’s brandy and/or lager or ale ( not that big of a fan of pielsen nor cider ) then double espresso with cream and I can tell you all about how it got to brandy and double espresso if you’d wanna hear it that is
Some info about Judaism.
The treatment of children and infants varied and could be harsh by modern standards. In some biblical narratives, such as the conquest of the Canaanite cities, all inhabitants, including children and infants, were sometimes commanded to be killed (Deuteronomy 20:16-18). This was often justified in the text as a means of preventing idolatry and ensuring the purity of the Israelite community.
I don’t see how this is relevant to modern Judaism. There is a good progress of modernity in religion but judging one by the past when the entire world was different is a non sequitur
@SarahRugheimer Israel existence is justified by the Old Testament. So Israel believes it has the right to clear the land of non-jews as its the requirement in the Old Testament. Christians are required to help Jews in this endeavour.
@@everythingandmore5537 (My comment here is only tangentially related to yours so it's more of some random thoughts here rather than a direct reply!) I don't think most Jews believe that they have a right to clear the land of non-Jews. There are some fringe hard-right religious Jews with that view, but that is not the dominant Israeli opinion. Of course 20% of Israeli citizens are non-Jewish so Jews live with non-Jews in Israel peacefully. I do believe Jews are indigenous to the land and have a valid claim that way and likewise Palestinians are indigenous and have a right to live there as well (my personal opinion is that works best in a separate state). But even if Jews weren't indigenous, Israel would still have a right to exist. Many countries have a right to exist even if the inhabitants are not indigenous (ie Canada, New Zealand, Australia, the US etc). The reference to Amalek in Netanyahu's address is a parallel and only corresponds to Hamas.
@SarahRugheimer The Right of Return should apply equally to Jews and non-jews. How to the government the area from the river to the sea? A 3 state solution is the best. A Jewish state based on the 1947 partition plan. A Palestinian state is based on the green line. A mixed state of the land in between. Each state contributes a third of the seats in the Knesset.
@SarahRugheimer Given Netanyahu's previous statements and the political aims of his party, what makes you so sure he was only referring to Hamas with the Amalek reference?
I love sams comments and examples sometimes lol its funny
I haven't finished this yet---but please stop calling these pro-hamas protestors. People marching for Palestinians who support Hamas is an extremely small minority. Many of us are Jews.
Minute 53:45 , There is no contradiction between prayer and rational, scientific based action for a christian/roman catholic! ”Ratio et fides”, ”ora et labora” etcetera. We believe that God created the world with a specific order and that we are supposed to navigate within this order and explore it with our rational minds. Rationality is part of ”the image of God”. Christians do not believe in magic (or should not!). There is even a specific spirituality in the Catholic church that makes this the central focus in life, ”Opus Dei”; to always do one’s best at work and offer it up as a sacrifies to God while at the same time maintaining a strict prayer routine.
I like Sam, but it's been a theme for him to conflate all religiosity with the type of dogmatism he sees in Islam. Interestingly even when he at the same time acknowledges that religions are different.
I think his point was that many use prayer a technique for healing. And given there is very little scientific evidence that praying is efficacious compared to medical intervention, it would be irrational to choose a prayer vs medical practitioner .
If Sam comes on again, I would love for you to discuss effective altruism. Listening to you both for many years, I know you have different perspectives on the subject.
1:39:20 I guess you Sam have not heard about the Hannibal directive...
Minute 54:13, Read : ”How the Catholic Church built the western civilisation” by professor Thomas E. Woods
In the middle ages there was no modern science in Europe or anywhere in the world. The scientific revolution came about in the christian universities because of a specific way of thinking and method as opposed to merely compiling empirical data or elaborate in lofty philosophy which was common in learning centres in other parts of the world. Islam , example, has a different world view that couldn’t promote systematic natural science. Chinese had advanced techniques but didn’t develop science based technology,
Note, that there is no coincidence that jews from the West seem to be more prosperous and advanced than the jews from the East.
More prosperous than Persian Jews?😂
@@MrAbuYaz the only persian jews that I have met live in Europe…. They inform me that there are not many jews left in Iran. However, I grant You that my statement need to be revised: there was very prosperous jewish population in Iraq, what happened to them?
Sam the best
19:49 Yeah. I don't want to get stabbed for a conflict I have no stake in either. I guarantee this guy is the exact same on thousands of issues, minus a few close to home.
He lost me on settlements. Israelis should be able to buy land and live in any part of their land, which includes the West Bank, which by international law belongs to Israel, until there is agreement with Arabs that states otherwise. Giving up land ahead of negotiations is same as giving land without any security guarantees.
by international law what now? hasbabot please.
@@mznxbcv12345 borders were determined by British, who OWNED the land at that time. After that UN PROPOSED partition plan, which was rejected by Arabs, so no change. Then Arabs attacked and won the West Bank in an illegal war of aggression, so, no change. Then Arabs attacked again and lost the territory to Israel, that won it in a LEGAL war of defense, so, West Bank belongs to Israel two times over. It doesnt matter what international community or UN say. International law is applied equally to all countries and that is how it is normally applied to all other countries. No matter how UN votes, they can’t make the law applied differently to Israel. West Bank belongs to Israel by international law. Period.
Owned? lolno
hasbaraRAT
@@mznxbcv12345: The Allied Powers (British, French, etc) defeated the Ottoman Empire in 1918. As part of the surrender agreement, the Ottoman Turks *ceded* all their Middle East land to the Allies. The British and French were under no obligation to give that land to the current occupants, but they did. The Hejazi Arabs, who fought with the British Lawrence of Arabia, were given self-rule in 99% of that land, much of rich in oil (Iraq, Syria, Lebanon, Saudi Arabia and Jordan). The Jews also fought with the British and in return they were promised the right to reconstitute their ancestral homeland in Israel, from the river to the sea. That right still stands, unless they give it up. One-fifth of Israeli citizens are from those Arab families who accepted life in the newly-founded Jewish state in 1948. They made a good choice... 🇮🇱🙏💙
so when black ppl complain about racism, Sam dismisses it. Jew hatred tho....oh thats real
Thank you for telling the fact that Gandhi was delusional pacifist. His methods only worked with the British., not with Islamists..
He couldn’t stop the Partition of Bharath./ India.
How about double standards in case with Russians in Ukraine before war started Sam? Or in that situation double standards are ok. ? How about double standards in war in former Yugoslavia Sam? What about those double standards ? When you use double standard ( almost always in case of U. S foreign affairs),sooner or later , double standards will come home.
There's something about the way Harris talks about stuff that makes it seem like he doesn't feel emotions very strongly. It feels like he views the world in a muted color palette. I don't know, I just feel sad listening to him.
He has a beautiful wife, 2 daughters and more than enough money as well as a social cause. I wouldn't feel too bad for him
I'm a big fan of Sam. I even subscribe to his podcast. But I wish he would stop identifying Jewishness as a religion and accept that the reason genetic tests can identify Jewish heritage is because it is an ethnicity. A Jewish person csn elie e in the religion or not, but that doesn't change their ethnicity. As such, if there can be a Germany or a France, an Arabia or a China, there can be an Israel.
The word you are thinking of is "Hebrew" which is a genetically proven race of people that they are now trying to erase from history and media.
🤬
He’s spoken plenty on how “jewishness” is unique in this regard, it’s a religion and an ethnicity
@@winkingfox7125 Fact.
@@winkingfox7125I've heard him many times refer to it as a religion, including his history (pre-Oct 7) of questioning Israel's right to exist based on the erroneous characterization of it as a nation based on religion. It is not. You are right that Jewishness is both an ethnicity and a religion. But Israel's existence is, and should be, based on it being the ancestral homeland of the ethnically Jewish people. Referring to the religious aspect plays into the false claims by Israel-haters that it is an 'ethnostate.' It clearly isn't. Proving Jewishness to move there doesn't include proving any level of religious observance.
Am Israeli chai❤
The latest signs I asked God for was the big solar flare for May 11th Aurora Borealis and big solar flare for 8.4.2024 Aurora Borealis. The anniversary of God's first nine sentences to me of fifty. I told people, timestamped it on line..what more. I have been doing this for nine years punching holes in Islam. I don't even have any videos of me online..
1:28: you perfectly explained our dilemma; the west must toggle between tolerance and war when necessary, after which we go back to tolerance. This is our goal. It’s hard but we do it (WW2).
RUSS ROBERTS SHOULD KNOW THAT IF YOU ARE A MUSLIM, YOU ARE ORDAINED TO FOLLOW ISLAMIC LAW AND GOVERNANCE. IN A COUNTRY THAT VALUES SECULARITY, THAT IS A BIG PROBLEM, ESPECIALLY AS THE MUSLIM COHORT INCREASES.
I agree with Harris on Islam 100%! It's here not to to assymilate or cohabitate, it's here to conquer. Period.
This issue made Harris come back to sanity away from his mental obsessions with vaccines and Trump derangement syndrome, to his genius self.
Do you agree with Harris' statement that French Muslims would be a majority within 25 years?
You understand that just because someone believes Trump is at best an enormous lying narcissist who shouldn't be let anywhere near the oval office doesn't mean he's suffering from a "derangement". It just means he's observant. Labelling someone as having a made up "derangement" who doesn't hold your views, or who holds differing views to you is just disingenuous. Its a low effort escape hatch from havinf to engage on the topic in detail. I've listened to and read a lot of Sam Harris. He may hold views some agree with and some don't, but this man isn't deranged even a little. He's one of the most calmly rational public intellectuals we have and we're better off with his voice out there, even if you don't like what he says about Donald Trump.
26:00 35:40 54:45 1:11:00 1:32:00
My city is half Arab-American. They've joined the American "Green" tribe ($$$$) and the pursuit of the American dream.
These are those who moved out of the middle east and left it behind.
The fact that they do not live in an overwhelming islamic environment might have an effect.
Is that Jerusalem stone behind Sam Harris?
Looks like it.
If I had my choice...
Qatar is very similar to AIPAC. AIPAC buys congressmen, Qatar buys universities.
And you need to buy some brains.
AIPAC is a legitimate lobbying organization supported by American citizens. Qatar is not. AIPAC did not establish a political fundraising and endorsement vehicle until fairly recently. It is a necessary organization. There are too many anti-Israel operators in Washongton.
@@benqurayza7872 Still the same. They both buy people and influence. How does AIPAC help the people of the United States?
@@benqurayza7872 Still the same. How does AIPAC help the people of the United States?
@tinmanx2222 L'chaim. My Hebrew name Jacova is the female form of Jacob. I am glad AIPAIC exists.
Pootin and his Mollahs' proxies , Russia-Iran alliance💀
1:11:05 Get clipped :D
I really wish people would stop being obsessed with end days and Armageddon. God wants sentient life in the solar system.
Apostate Prophet should he mentioned here
Minute 1:33:33 ; pacifism = let the thugs inherit the earth…, life experience taught me the value of good locks & alarm system and occasionally calling the police!
And what do the police do if the subject does not submit entirely? They force him, with violence
@@Mageblood that is the point; the police & military have the monopoly of violence for everybodys protection
Deja Vu.
Dear Sam , I have never heard such propaganda since the last time you opened your mouth. Sometimes when the Truth hurts so badly, one might need to look at one’s self. No one is above reproach, even Israel.
Can you name a few things that Sam has said that was propaganda in your view? What’s the point of saying anything if you won’t actually respond to at least some of his points? It’s not like you’re talking to Sam, because you’re really talking to everyone else who might respond to you.
@@LogicSpeaksThat Israel tries to avoid civilian casualties is propoganda
@@jmc5335
*Some samples of LAST 20 years:*
Nigeria Boko Haram 350,000 dead
Sudan JEM/Darfur 300,000 dead
Yemen Houthis 233,000 dead
Pakistan vs Islamists 50,000 dead
Syria 500,000 dead
South Sudan 400,000 dead
Ethiopia and Eritrea vs Tigray 600,000 dead
No protests for all these dead.
@ef2718 Strange, I can't see my post you are replying to. What was it?
@@jmc5335 I can't see it either.
Minute 1:31:10 , of course we shouldn’t fight in that way. I visited Dresden in the mid-ninethies….they were still sorting out the rubble of what once general human heritage
That was the most excruciating interview I've ever listened to on EconTalk. I was hoping for more transparent and honest thoughts from Russ who I look up to incredibly.
Yes, there's an obvious problem and has been for decades with radical Islam. But the way Sam approaches it is more of the same ideology from the past: kill, eradicate, indoctrinate. Those ideas are essentially what I heard from Sam. Ironically, it's the same ideology of Radical Islamist.
I think part of the issue is Sam is not religious. He leans on his 'religious experience' of Buddhism, but as a devout religious person it sounds hollow: "I mediated for some weeks and months."
Sam cherry picks the violent parts out of Islamic texts. You could do the same with most religions.
There are other ways to find peace, even with the 'bullies of the world' and unfortunately most of those ways are slow (trade deals, partnerships, finding what we agree on (ex. Saudi Arabia). Look even Qatar is slowly changing and I think the World Cup helped them be more flexible and change.
But the fast ways: kill, eradicate, indoctrinate can backfire. The wars in Iraq and Afghanistan. The response from Israel now is backfiring - yes, most Israeli's don't want to hurt Palestinians, but the way their government (Netanyahu) is dealing with the war does not reflect that. And that's part of the reason Israeli's are upset and protesting against Netanyahu.
40,000 people dead in Gaza. Hospitals, schools bombed. Mangled kids. Hundreds of people starving in a concentration camp. Don’t get distracted 🇵🇸
❤
Be nice 😊 Do good 😇 .....but.....
......... Don't Be A Chump💪
Russ Roberts you and your thought train is the problem, Sam is sharp and what i don't understand is what part of his exposition you don't want to understand. and stop saying "you make me uncomfortable" you should be indeed, and the problem is there is no solution to this problem until they get what they believe.
What happened to Greek gods, Roman gods, Scandinavian gods, etc. Similarly should Yawheh be forgotten.
Good luck with that
@logicbomb8977 who wants to remember Yawheh
@@everythingandmore5537 I’m just saying it’s not going to happen anytime soon
@@logicbomb8977 yawheh will go the way of apolo, zeus etc soon. Within 10 years.
Glad to see how few likes there are for these very narrow perspectives
Sam is very good at comparing apples and oranges.
Any word from Sam on the mass murders on children by his beloved Israel ? You know, the decades-long occupier.
Many of us are more concerned with the health and safety of Jews.
Lopez Kimberly Harris Carol Gonzalez George
I am Tunisian and I was trying to give him a chance and listen to him but the point about Spain translations being bigger project than Arabic projects and since the 7 century is a lie. He is also so boring.
Prove it?
And the Lord said unto me, A conspiracy is found among the men of Judah, and among the inhabitants of Jerusalem. Jeremiah 11:9
Yea, all Israel have transgressed thy law, even by departing, that they might not obey thy voice; therefore the curse is poured upon us, and the oath that is written in the law of Moses the servant of God, because we have sinned against him. And he hath confirmed his words, which he spake against us, and against our judges that judged us, by bringing upon us a great evil: for under the whole heaven hath not been done as hath been done upon Jerusalem. Daniel 9:11-12
Hear this word which I take up against you, a lamentation, O house of Israel. Amos 5:1
Because of the multitude of the whoredoms of the well-favored harlot, the mistress of witchcrafts, that selleth nations through her whoredoms, and families through her witchcrafts. Behold, I am against thee, saith the Lord of hosts: and I will discover thy skirts upon thy face, and I will show the nations thy nakedness, and the kingdoms thy shame. And I will cast abominable filth upon thee, and will set thee as a gazingstock. Nahum 3:4-6
Therefore thus saith the Lord God; Behold, I, even I, am against thee, and will execute judgments in the midst of thee in the sight of the nations. And I will do in thee that which I have not done, and whereunto I will not do any more the like, because of all thine abominations. Ezekiel 5:8
As it is written in the law of Moses, all this evil is come upon us: yet made we not our prayer before the Lord our God, that we might turn from our iniquities, and understand thy truth. Therefore hath the Lord watched upon the evil, and brought it upon us: for the Lord our God is righteous in all his works which he doeth: for we obeyed not his voice. Daniel 9:13-14
And Moses said unto Aaron, What did this people unto thee, that thou hast brought so great a sin upon them? Exodus 32:21
Yet many years didst thou forbear them, and testified against them by thy spirit in thy prophets: yet would they not give ear: therefore gavest thou them into the hand of the people of the lands. Nehemiah 9:30
For I know your manifold transgressions and your mighty sins: they afflict the just, they take a bribe, they turn aside the poor in the gate. Amos 5:12
Be ye not as your fathers, unto whom the former prophets have cried, saying, Thus saith the Lord of hosts; Turn ye now from your evil ways, and your evil doings: but they did not hear, nor hearken unto me, saith the Lord. Zechariah 1:4
For the punishment of the iniquity of the daughter of my people is greater than the punishment of the sin of Sodom, that was overthrown as in a moment, and no hands stayed her. Lamentations 4:6
Ah sinful nation, a people laden with iniquity, a seed of evildoers, children that are corrupters: they have forsaken the Lord, they have provoked the Holy One of Israel unto anger, they are gone away backward. Why should ye be stricken any more? ye will revolt more and more: the whole head is sick, and the whole heart faint. Isaiah 1:4-5
But truly I am full of power by the spirit of the Lord, and of judgment, and of might, to declare unto Jacob his transgression, and to Israel his sin. Hear this, I pray you, ye heads of the house of Jacob, and princes of the house of Israel, that abhor judgment, and pervert all equity. They build up Zion with blood, and Jerusalem with iniquity. Micah 3:8-10
And he said unto me, Son of man, I send thee to the children of Israel, to a rebellious nation that hath rebelled against me: they and their fathers have transgressed against me, unto this very day. For they are impudent children and stiffhearted. I do send thee unto them; and thou shat say unto them, Thus saith the Lord God. And they, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear, (for they are a rebellious house) yet shall know that there hath been a prophet among them. And thou, son of man, be not afraid of them, neither be afraid of their words, though briars and thorns be with thee, and thou dost dwell among scorpions: be not afraid of their words, not be dismayed at their looks, though they be a rebellious house. And thou shalt speak my words unto them, whether they will hear, or whether they will forbear: for they are most rebellious. Ezekiel 2:3-7
We have sinned, and committed iniquity, and have done wickedly, and have rebelled, even by departing from thy precepts and from thy judgments: Neither have we hearkened unto thy servants the prophets, which spake in thy name to our kings, our princes, and our fathers, and to all the people of the land. Daniel 9:5
Hear this word that the Lord has spoken against you, O children of Israel, against the whole family which I brought up from the land of Egypt, saying, You only have I known of all the families of the earth: therefore I will punish you for all your iniquities. Amos 3:1-2
O Israel, return unto the Lord thy God; for thou hast fallen by thine iniquity. Hosea 14:1
The Lord hath been sore displeased with your fathers. Zechariah 1:2
But thou hast utterly rejected us; thou art very wroth against us. Lamentations 5:22
Howbeit thou art just in all that is brought upon us; for thou hast done right, but we have done wickedly. Nehemiah 9:33
I have been listening to both Russ and Sam for over a decade and love their content for the most part, but both (and especially Sam) seem to be quite misguided on this topic. How can this topic be discussed for 2 hours without once going into the interplay of geopolitics and how Islamism rose to where it is now. I have not heard Sam ever discuss the founding of Israel or conditions on the ground in occupied territories since. How have peaceful, secular, and/or Christian Palestinian movements been met by Israel? Perhaps most importantly, why is the well documented direct funding of Hamas by current Israeli political leaders (with the expressed purpose of foiling peace negotiations) not discussed. Islamism is one of many factors at play in this conflict and Sam treats it as the one and only.
While I agree with your question at face value, I am afraid that the latter part turns it into a loaded one, revealing your own presuppositions that are not exactly based in reality. I will yry to address them below.
Hamas was formed in 1987 as an islamic charity, affiliated with the Muslim Brotherhood (formed in the neighboring Egypt 60 years earlier). At the time (you may or may not recall that it was right after the 1st intifada) it was viewed by some in the Israel as a more peaceful alternative to the secular radicals of the PLO and its terrorist fellow travelers. The Al Qasam brigades came later and generally changed that perception.
If you look at the map it is very difficult to envision a "contiguous Palestinian state" drmandrd by the "international community" comprising of Gaza and W Bank without severely undercutting Israel's secirity. This is a major reason why many in Israel would prefer to have the two as separate entities ruled by separate administrations. It is hardly some nefarious conspiracy.
Finally, the accusation of Israel directly financing Hamas is a lie, plain and simple. In reality Israel has been against both the PA and Qatar transferring funds to Gaza ever since Hamas violently took it over in 2007 and began using it as the base for launching incessant attacks. There has been a lot of pressure on Israel to change this policy, not the least from the US, and finally Israel relented and allowed the transfers. Somehow that has been turned into a false narrative of "Israel financing Hamas", which could not be further from the truth.
@@lordgaga8022 the point is these things are not even discussed as though they are not important and Islamism explains the whole conflict.
Your second paragraph is pure supposition. Even Hamas in their revised charter signal at agreeing to peace behind 1967 borders. The truth is Israel will not accept ANY sovereign Palestinian state. West Bank settlements continue to expand to make two states impossible.
In response to graph 4. It just isn’t. As I said the strategy is well documented and explicitly part of Israeli policy since 1996. Multiple former Israeli cabinet members have testified to this effect. It seems like it would be a good strategy but it backfired because Bibi didn’t take seriously the threat from Hamas leading to embarrassing security failures on sept 7th (again well documented).
Israel made peace with Egypt and Jordan. These countries are no less Muslim than the Palestinians. The reason they won’t make peace with the Palestinians is they want the land and fewer Arabs on that land. An honest accounting of the founding of the country and the goings on of the last century would indicate that very clearly
The 2017 'amendment' to Hamas's charter can be viewed as a signal of recognition of Israel only if you ignore two conditioms that are absolutely unacceptable to the Isrselis: 1. "Return" to the 1967 "borders" (in fact, armistice lines) entails surrendering the Old City of Jerusalem. During Jordan's 1948-1967 occupation all Jews have been ethnically cleansed from Jerusalem and had no access to their most important cultural and religious sites. If Jerusalem is handed over to the Palestinians, Hamas has every intention of implementing these policies (recall that the Oct 7 'operation' was called the Al Aqsa Flood, its stated intention - to purge Jewish presence from the Temple Mount). 2. The so-called 'right of return' (btw enjoyed by no other refugee population in the world, as is the recognition as refugees in perpetuity and the criteria of qualifying as such by only having been present in the Mandatory Palestine two years prior to 1948) implies the end of Israel as Jewish state. Since the need for Jewish state arose due to the fact that Jews have been a persecuted minority for two thousand years, reverting back to a persecuted minority, ruled over by an extremely hostile majority is also a nonstarter.
While I am perfectly willing to give you the benefit of the doubt due to your fairly superficial understanding of the issue, Hamas does not get such pass. They knew perfectly well that Israel will never agree to these conditions and their inclusion in the charter are purely cosmetic, only to provide the fodder for those who, like you, are willing to overlook the substance of their position.
I do find it quite telling that you are willing to give Hamas a pass, despite their rhetoric and actions, while you claim that "Israel will not accept ANY sovereign Palestinian state", despite the fact that pre-Israel Jews have agreed to all of the proposed partitions of the Mandatory Palestine (that is, after 78% of the original territory was "gifted" by the UK to the Hashemites of Mecca), which the Arabs flatly rejected, followed by Israel's offer to return all the territories captured in 1967, except for the strategic Golan heights and Jerusalem, met by the three NO's of Khartoum, and all the sunsequent negotiations, including the Oslo agreements.
The fact is that with the exception of Jerusalem, Israel views the territory transfers through a security lens. It is willing to make concessions as long as they do not present an existential danger, so the more it is threatened, the less likely it is to agree to them. Unfortunately that cow has left the barn on Oct 7 and now it is not just the marginal ultrareligious Zionist minority that is against the territorial comcessions, but the overwhelming majority of the general public.
"Setterments" issue is also not as significant as you make it out to be. There are three types of settlements: 1. the official incorporated townships along the 1967 armistice lines, including Jerusalem's Old City and its eastern suburbs. These are home to the vast majority of the so-called settlers. Since the townships are incorporated, their territories are strictly defined and all the "expansion" takes place within, as in building additional housing units, and does not involve adding new territory. 2. settlements on the public lands, and 3. settlements on the private land belonging to the Palestinians or in Areas A and B according to the Oslo accords. The first category is envisioned as remaining part of Israel, with the Palestinians being compensated by an equal sized area. The latter two exist in a legal grey area, the two reasons for allowing them are: 1. to provide additional securoty against attacks from W Bank and 2. a cost charged for Palestinian intransigence in negotoations. The general understanding is that they will be dismantled as soon as these two reasons are no longer relevant.
My second paragraph contains easily verifiable facts. Curious which part you consider a "suppostion" and why (that you may not have been aware of these facts does not make them a supposition).
As for your response to my 4th paragraph, "just isn't" does not qualify as a serious response at all, more like a childish tantrum at something you disagree with. Better try next time.
Your final paragraph is indeed a pure supposition that is entirely predicated on logical fallacies.
@@Fsgs233most of what you’ve said here is false. However, let’s assume that what you say is true. If the Palestinians decided to be peaceful - no more terrorism, no more daily rockets flying into Israeli neighborhoods, no more obsession with killing Jews, do you believe that Israel would not want a 2 state solution?
You make it sound like Israel just wants the land, and that’s disingenuous. The vast, vast majority of Israelis just want to live in peace, without having to run into bomb shelters every day and without having to be aware that at any given moment, Jihadis are looking for cracks in security in order to kill them.
@@Theworldisupsidedown-ou8vh it’s a great point. The irony of you pointing out the rightful indignation of Isrealis under mostly futile and ineffective bombardment should make you think about what has happened to Gaza in the last several months to make it into an uninhabitable hellscape. Is this a path to peace.
I'm at the 15 minute mark of the video so far and I stopped. I'll resume after I make this comment. So I'm an American Jew. And I'm part of the 30% or so who vote Republican. While 70% of American Jews including Sam Harris, vote for Democrats. And I'll add my two Jewish sisters to that sin. So for 15 minutes Sam has been 1000% correct about how Jews in America are suffering from a level of anti-semitism that we've never seen before. But this is what makes Sam Harris a damn hypocrite. So far in the first 15 minutes he never said once who is responsible for the anti-semitism in america. He's never said the d word once! He never said it's Democrats! Sure we all know it's the far left wing of their Looney Tune party. But the worst part of the Democrats, like my two sisters, is that they almost never condemn the far left of their party!
Many do see Jihad as a battle that people must fight within themselves.
Only 3% of the Quran and Hadiths talk about an "internal battle" when they refer to jihad (struggle). 97% of Islam's jihad refers to a holy war "in the way of Allah".
Not sure why Russ keeps inviting people from the political commentary community onto his podcast though. Looks like another guest who can't distinguish the difference between Zionism and Judaism. Got to somewhat disagree with Russ's take on 2022 World Cup. Sam Harris doesn't realize that Hamas is a Zionist based organization.
37:00 Why isn't Russ concerned about the nature of Zionism?
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Wow, now you want to change the vernacular. You're trying so hard to find your anti semitism loophole. Hamas and Islamer J.had is anathema to God and life.
You are a теrrоrisт
The entire section from ~1:42:00 is hilarious.
>They defend their coreligionists regardless of the crime!
>They use money to push their interests!
>Stealth-islamism!
He's even smirking all through it. But suggest that Jews defend their coethnics regardless of the crime, that they push their interests in all ways feasible, that Jewish lobby is stealth-zionism, and you'd hear it's all false, and if it's true, it's a good thing, and perfectly understandable/defensible.
He lives in Isreal, yeah he looks like he’s from that part of the world
It's called DNA, maybe look up how it works and affects physical characteristics.
Yes, he very much does.
Mabye worst EconTalk ever
You are.