F Body Brembo Upgrade
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 30 ก.ค. 2024
- Some in depth instruction on fitting Corvette C7 or Cadillac ATS-V Brembo calipers onto a GM F-body 4th gen.
00:15 Look at the differences between caliper sizes
01:31 Look at the caliper and other parts
04:42 Spindle with wheel hub removed
05:34 Hand drill platform for straight drilling
06:19 Ready to drill the spindle
07:28 Test fit of z51 caliper
08:05 Note about hub adapter ears
09:37 Important clearance check for bolt
10:13 Test fitting 17" wheels on z51 big caliper (fail)
11:44 Test fitting 17" Firehawk wheels on ATS-V caliper (success)
13:40 Test fitting 17" stock wheels
15:24 Back of spindle clearancing for washer and bolt head
17:38 Sizes of brake hose flanges
19:10 18" Wheel test fitting - ยานยนต์และพาหนะ
I have a 99 30th anniversary TA and want to do this Best video yet. Showing both sizes is awesome. Excellent content. Thanks again
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Those hub adapters are a critical piece of this conversion. The switch to non-floating calipers for performance applications really require ditching the stock hubs to avoid piston knock-back. The "ears" are actually for a dust shield on those adapters and I would advise against rotating them out of the way as it will change the hub orientation. If you opt to run without a dust shield, the ears are not needed but having them close to the mount is no big deal - if any of that stuff is moving around, you have bigger problems. I have been on the same set of C5R SKF hubs for a good 5 years now and no variance in the wheel rotation plane yet. Not a cheap way to go, and not needed by everyone, but very solid option if you do the hub swap and they plug and play with the ABS/TCS systems if retained. The Stranos version was not developed when I original converted so the above only applies to the adapters shown in the video.
I'm using a Cadillac CTS-V 6 pot calipers with 14.6 inch rotors in a 18-inch wheel and yes it's a very tight fit
I love you for making this video I’m totally putting this setup on my firehawk
🤟
The Lowenbrau 962 is one of the most beautiful race cars ever! Right on!
Great video very useful
Thanks for the information sharing
Amazing video. Thanks. Can somebody put down the provide cadillac atsv part numbers here. Also what rotors should I go with to work with to work with the atsv calipers?
Do the rear calipers for the atsv work the same? What rotors for the rears?
Im looking to do this hopefully this week and will post a video. Any help is appreciated and thanks for the video.
I have a 2000 WS6 trans am.
Nice vid.
Hey I'm trying to source up a kit for my 2013 Impala ltz. Do you know of any part or kitsch that will work?
Anyone know if the ATS-V will fit behind torque thrust M wheels? I understand stock wheels are +56 offset my torque thrust Ms are +45.
Forsure gonna throw a pair on my fbody!! thank you!!
I'm running ctsv calipers on mine big improvement over the stock brakes
@@bhcamaro2002 What’s the dif between CTSV and ATSV calipers
What bolt pattern do you need to use those Calibers or what do you need because I have 5×114.3mm on a Hyundai
What did your solution for the Kore3 lines end up being? I have some on order currently.. admittedly they may have changed something since then, but if you're still posting on this video I'd love to know what you did before I get into mine.
edit: checked my digital shipping form again, and evidently new L brackets are included with the kit I purchased. We'll see how it all comes together.
So which rotor do we use for the ats caliper ? Get the rotor off an ats 12.6 ?
What spacer part number did you use?
I have a 99 ss camaro I have the cts v front brakes with 2012 SS camaro rotors and pads plug n play no need to cut or grind.
Can you put these on a c5 corvette
How do the 12.6" rotors hold up to road racing? I have them on my ATS and I wish I had more brake for street use.
The better (stronger and faster) solution for the M14 shoulder screws is to grind the tip of the threads so they're flush with the caliper flange. Shoulder screws are also meant to work with a *reamed* hole. A 14mm reamer, or possibly oversize reamer, are off-the-shelf items.
Thanks for the great video, just finished my install and can’t believe the difference. One question is the torque for the caliper bolts, stock runs 75 ft/lbs but I upped it to 100 ft/lbs, what did you use? Thanks!
I have a PDF (not sure where I got it) with all the parts for a 2017/C7 brake setup and the torque for the bolt to attach to the front spindle is listed at 162 ft-lb. I remember when I put them on thinking that was crazy high. Also I believe the GM parts website or manual will say to not reuse the bolt.
I know you made this video a long time ago but, did you try the ATS with the 13.6 rotor? I also see that the Stingray rear rotors are 13.3 could these go with the ATS caliper?
No I didn't try other calipers, I spent enough money on the Z51 ones that were too big for me. The C7 uses a rear drum for parking brake and the rotor is completely incompatible on the front axle.
Can i ask you about the Cadillac
What's the options for the rear brake caliper and rotor setup? Brembo in front and stock in rear? Currently working on my 98 trans am and havent had much luck on rear brake setup options when you go with brembo in front.
Rear brake upgrades are pretty much pointless on the F-body. Even road racers I know on FRRAX forum do not recommend upgrading the rear caliper, but a better pad compound is fine. These cars are light in the rear esp under hard braking that too much brake results in lockup more than anything. Stick with the stock caliper, clean/paint/etc if you want it just to look nicer.
Can you add a video of how the end product looks like? I've seen a lot of videos of brakes upgrades but at the end they do not show the car with the wheels on, running normally or even taking some nice video of the end result!! That is nuts! The same happens with GTO big brake upgrades.
I don't have a good way to make a video while moving. They look great, but more importantly they work great!
The larger rotors, used for the larger calipers, did they need to be machined for the hub? What part number or application were they?
JoshHefnerX did not need machined. Got from KNS brakes.com
Do I need spacers for this kit to fit under stock 17 inch 2002 Camaro ss rims? I'm trying to not use spacers.
I use spacers on my Firehawk wheels, it's no big deal, but of course you will have to have longer studs. There is an LS1Tech.com thread with video and they used SS wheels, IIRC they fit OK. But you will have to test fit yourself to be 100% sure.
I got every single part that you recommend for this ATS BREMBO and JL9 corvette rotors install along with the 15mm eibach hub centric spacers and longer studs.
I have 17x9.5 torq thrust II do you think the calipers and rotors will clear? I don’t want to be stuck with this set up and the wheels not fit.
Sorry I have no idea.
How did they fit? I’ve got TTMs in 17x9
Did you ever do the conversation @robertgonez3172
Hey man good video, just picked up a set of the ATS 4 pistons myself to upgrade from Ls1 brakes on my 3rd gen race car. However those are not ATS-V brakes you have, the j-55 is from the ATS performance while the V has 6 pistons and monster 14.5" rotors. Still good work on a thorough walk through!
OK, well I had a lot of confusion on the packages/part numbers, so I'm not surprised. Thanks!
@@SuperMacGuy lol yep, I completely understand the confusion. Not even to mention that the regal gs uses the same 4 piston under another part number too lol
@@colesherman whaaaaaaaaaaaaaaat
@@SuperMacGuy I got some from a 2017 camaro ss, would those work with my 4th gen aswell?
Hector Castillo I don’t know; check on LS1tech.com, there are a couple threads discussing those calipers I believe
Great video Chris! What size bolts do I need if I am using the ATS-V Calipers?
The bolt is part number 1161 1085, a generic GM bolt of size 14mm x 2 (thread pitch) x 45 length
Good job, looks great! What is correct torque for those new rotor bolts?? Thanks=)
A thread on LS1Tech says about 162 foot-pounds. It is probably listed on a Corvette repair manual somewhere too.
@@SuperMacGuy Thanks, ...sounds a lot??? though??
Whats the 12.6in rotor part number? Ive been searching for a couple days and cant come up with one... maybe im crazy...
I don't know the part number, but call or visit KNS Brakes.com and just get the base Corvette C7 rotor.
I have an LT1 Car with LS1 brakes at the front and thinking on doing this, I have 3 channel ABS from a 98 Camaro working good. Could this setup work good for normal street driving?
It works just fine on the street.
I drag my T/A so I am really interested in the weight difference between the 3 setups. Stock/Cady/Vette.
What did you go with?
@@bhcamaro2002 what did you go with
@@mikeverything4098 cts v 4 piston
Did you installed a brake proportioning valve?
And tested and set it, as explained in another youtube miata video
and regain front/rear wheel lock as the stock setup the factory dialed.
Should set to front and rear to lock at the same time,
And then dial a little more front lock.
And also regaining oversteer understeer stock setup
Both of these setups can be dangerous is not addressed.
Another youtube brembo instalation ended locking the the front tires
At a minimum pedal presure.
No, in my opinion for street driving there's no need as the ABS system will likely kick in anyways (I have 4-channel). In 20 years of AX in this car, I barely wear down a set of rear pads, the car is already nose heavy (56/44%). Plus I think many people don't actually understand how a prop valve *actually* works in practice. It's too much effort for me, I let the ABS figure it out and just keep the system as it is.
which brake hoses did you use witch small cadillac-calipers ?
Mike Y. Those are Kore3 hoses. That caliper is Caddy ATS-V j55 package.
Nice! I wonder if this set up will fit behind my 17x9.5 C6 Z06 replicas!
no you need 18 wheels
The ATS setup should. There’s a guy on TGO that has the ATS setup behind his.
@@79TAGio TGO? Please link me,sir.
jay.0621 www.thirdgen.org/forums/brakes/718746-2015-c7-corvette-base.html
Can anyone tell me if I can use the 13.4" rotor with the ATS caliper?
No. That’s the z51 size.
Where did you get the spacer plate for the f-body hub? Do the rear calipers mount the same way?
If you are referring to the wheel spacer (time 17:36) I think that was an Eibach spacer, I probably got it thru Summit. It was nothing special. I did not replace the rear brakes because they do so little of the braking that upgrades are not worth it, and I recommend against it. If you need a little more rear braking, its probably easier to change to a slightly more aggressive compound.
Nice info. Just looked up the hub adapter kit. Almost a $1,000 and the 4 piston kit $999-$1999. Little pricey for a upgrade.
Derek R well depends on what your budget is for upgrades. I had a hub fail on me on at a track day, thankfully not on the high speed corner but right after it. So the hubs are a must-have for me now. Thanks for taking a look.
@@SuperMacGuy thanks for the info. Really want to beef up my brakes on my Z28.
Chris would it be cheaper to buy a new C5 hub and get a bracket to bolt on?
The SKF XTracker that Strano sells (and other places) has bigger bearings in it compared to the stock replacement units, so it is designed to handle more g-forces, racing, AXing etc. So you could get a base/stock replacement, but you may not get a much longer life. I hope I answered your question.
Thanks. I'll have figure out if I want the cts-v or ats brakes.
What’s the part number on those brake hoses? Are they longer than stock hoses
Yes they are much longer, and the Kore3 number is "GMF4" but that might not be actually shown on their site, just look for C5/C6 conversion line.
Looking to put forgestars on my car and what I've read the wheels will clear the brakes without spacers. This true?
Yes the F14 wheels has a LOT of space for big calipers without spacers. I am using 18x11s (with ~36mm offset) and there is easily 1 full inch of space at the tightest spot. Be sure to check Forgestars before you mount tires for roundness and trueness, one of my wheels was not straight right from factory, take them to tire shop and put on the balancer.
@@SuperMacGuy Alright appreciate it. What's the benefit of the vette hub? Any other odd and end things to know? Trying to get into racing and I'm new to all this.
@@patrickpenton1653 Well there is a lot to know about F-bodies. The front hubs are a weak link, once you start to AX or RR on wide tires you'll need them: www.stranoparts.com/viewfeature.php?FeatureID=7
Also, Koni Shocks are best bang for buck on these cars, do them first. Larger front swaybar helps a lot. The rear ends are also weak so really do not drop the clutch and launch super hard a whole lot. A lot of drag racers blow diffs up quick. Learn about "Ice Mode" when braking, it's a real thing I've written a lot of (dumb) posts about it till I learned properly what it is and why it happens. If you get lowering springs make sure they work with the Koni's (again go to Strano's for them). I like my Watts link in the rear, stock size rear sway bar. A race seat (Sparco) is well worth it. Long tube headers, a good tune, and decent exhaust round it out. Seat time, seat time, seat time. Be willing to have an instructor. Don't overdrive an F-body until you get time/experience (not sure your overall exp level) but I see a lot of ppl overdrive into corners and plow through, you gotta have restraint and finesse.
Patrick Penton 63405008600
The rotors you used, are they specifically for a 4th gen F body? Or for some other car?
They are for Corvette. Either the C7 base model or z51. Centric rotors for the base are pretty economical. For the z51 big rotor, I suggest KNSBrakes.com they have a non-slotted/non-drilled blank that is not too expensive.
Add oil to drill bit to help
You think it's worth going from the cadi j55's to the z51 j55 brakes?
Only if you road race and need more mass to handle repeated and large heat cycles. Good pads on the ATS brakes are a very effective package.
Could I use 4 JL9 calipers all around ? Front and rear ?
No. You need more brake power in the front. That’s true for all vehicles.
Go nice job why not just grind down the bolt
My thinking is you added washer and then had to shave it all to fit. Why
The bolt is grade 10.8, hard to cut. Easier to grind some washers.
Will the JL9 brembo calipers fit from the C7 on a 4th gen Camaro
Yes, JL9 should be the code for the base C7 caliper, that fits inside a 17 inch wheel, its the same as the Cadillac caliper I have in the video. But, they are more expensive to buy as they say "Corvette" on them.
@@SuperMacGuy what would a fair price be. With everything calipers, rotors, pads, pins, bolts, houses. They look brand new.
The hub adapter and corvette hub isn’t a requirement for this conversion is it?
No. You can do either one separately. But the Xtracker hubs eliminate pad knockback for sure.
What size wheel to clear the vette calipers
18s
This is great 👍. I have some ATS callipers to put on my C4 so thanks!
But I struggle to comprehend why F body owners are so married to their 17's???
If your going to brembo 4 piston callipers go 13.6" rotors and chuck those stockers in the trash!
hello, I have a question hoping you can help me out. Do the new ATS callipers measure from bolt to bolt the same length as the C4 callipers. I am wanting to do the same as you, I would appreciate your feedback. Thank you.
@@JosePerez-oy2zn I understand the c4 to c5 2 piston adapter brackets will work for the ATS callipers but the rotor will need to be another 0.6" larger diameter at 13.2".
A C6 Z51 is 13.4" I believe.
My plan is to mount the ATS callipers on C5 conversion brackets and measure. If I need to get the C6 Z51 or even C7 Z51 rotors turned down so be it. But my suspicion is the C6 Z51 rotors will fit fine.
I paid like $200 for the ATS callipers, hardware and pads a few years ago. So cheap.
@@JosePerez-oy2zn ok it's been a while but I checked it out again because I'm getting close to doing the swap.
I believe if you use a c5 adapter bracket with ats and C7 base brembos you use a standard c5 12.6 rotor.
If you use a C7 z51 and possibly xts brembo you use a 13.6 c7 z51 rotor. But you need an 18" rim.
I don't know what the price difference are now but at the time I bought ats were like $80 ea and c7 z51 $500 ea. Xts are cheaper.
Hope this helps.
What rotors did you use and part#
Centric rotors #120.62146 they were $55 on Summit Racing.
Wouldn't a lock washer work better in that situation, its smaller no grinding. ?
A lock washeer wasn't the point. The point was to make sure the tip of the bolt didn't contact the rotor. I could have also ground down the end of the bolt, but that's more work and messes up threads. I could gone without the washer, if I was comfortable with the clearance from bolt to rotor. But I like to go the extra mile to make sure everything I do is reliable, fixable, and fits/clearances properly.
@@SuperMacGuy Chris you missed my whole point, putting a lockwasher under the head of the bolt should of taken up distance on the bolt and relieved the small clearance.
TRUE ANOMALY I understood
There is also the offset/eccentric on the back of the spindle that I wanted to account for - it was going to prevent the bolt from seating. Watch from 15:30 for what I mean. Sure a lock washer might have worked, but I wanted to have a full, flat seat for the bolt flange.
unfortunately youre incorrect about the ats-v caliper..the one you showed is the standard ats caliper not the V. the V caliper is in fact a 6 pistion larger caliper
does this work for a 1995 camaro z28?
No the LT1 cars have different spindles so you need to swap the entire front spindle to get the correct geometry first.
hmm still using stock brakes, you gotta get quality blanks/pads and bleed them well.
What?
So hows driving on them?
I like them a lot. The pedal feel is good and firm. It grabs pretty quickly, compared to the stock brakes which had a gradual bite and soft initial feel. I also put a Strano MC brace on, may help a bit.
@@SuperMacGuy Have u had knock-back issues?
one off nope, but I have those big X-Tracker hubs which are way more stout than stock replacements. Very important to have, or I would get knockback like on regular brakes, maybe even worse since these are not floating calipers.
What about the back ??
F-bodies are front heavy, and you know most braking force happens in the front. So changing the rear calipers is really not worth the effort. I get much, much less rear pad wear on this car compared to front. In fact over 18 years of autocrossing this car, I only changed the rear pads once.
gen 4 need tooooo much upgrades $$$$$$$$$$$$$$$$
Diffs, brakes, wheels, hubs, almost all suspension $$$$$$$$$$
You’ll end spending more $$, And getting less than a stock used gen 6
And the bonus of a stock C6 450hp engine & beffy IRS
This is so far away from plug and play it hardly seems worth it. I hope there are other options out there when I go do mine. I know I am not going this route. Two many problems and you just got started.
Every person has their own level of comfort with auto mechanic work. I'd say this was by far, very easy, not complicated, and yes one of the true bolt-on solutions. I had no worries about doing it. I did have my own pitfall of being confused about the correct part number. But the actual work of installing them was *very easy*. If you are researching other F-body brake options, there are some that require you to completely cut off both of the mounting ears, which requires you to maybe take the entire spindle off, and then use a cutter/grinder, and permanently alter your spindle in a far more drastic fashion.
Sad you think this is difficult... cost around 700$. Thats half the cost of a brembo,willwood, strange kit specifilly for a 4th gen that btw also requires modidications. So a few hrs and 700$ is def worth it for someone who isnt a fking moron that skill level seems to be at installing an cai..