Cathedral Ls Heads Vs LS3 Head Dyno Test

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  • เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 พ.ย. 2024

ความคิดเห็น • 96

  • @gordongrimes2797
    @gordongrimes2797 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Eric some friends and i did track testing in california at a desert track from a door car to a dragster small blocks [earley 1990s] every test done with a 1050 dominator picked up ET and at least 3 MPH.this was before the better carbs of today 6464 dominator.heads where not what they are today. every body said the carb was to big for a sbc.WORNG. used an adapter on a 4150 manifold.Thanks for performing this test. love the videos.

  • @v8packard
    @v8packard 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I love Dominators.
    The difference between the heads might be more pronounced with cams that are optimized for each head.

  • @mack8940
    @mack8940 หลายเดือนก่อน

    the best ls3 combo i saw ran the cid 4500. it picked up big numbers over all the others

  • @BDauto86
    @BDauto86 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very interesting, thank you for sharing
    Excellent job on the 243s, those numbers were very good

  • @chevyrc3623
    @chevyrc3623 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I shared this video to a couple of guys who like ls to show how your ported cathedral did and sweet that's awesome how your ported head did

  • @deankay4434
    @deankay4434 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Eric, In the regular guy world, LS-111 (Vortex iron block truck) engines with stock cathedral intakes are disappearing fast. With out any modifications other than cam for grocery getters with some headers, using OEM EFI, intakes are not abundant, even with E85 injectors, could a non-racing product pickup or car expect to see maybe 20+ HP gain and extra torque using a comp motorhome / grandmas grocery getters performance? Just curious. I have less money in my pockets now while still married 44+ years as she still spends on kids & now grandkids. I guess my time came & went. So living cheap. Thanks Eric now, and your exhaustive efforts to do the cam shootout! My hat is off to ya! 😊

  • @davidreed6070
    @davidreed6070 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Eric you have always put out good information.

  • @brianholcomb6499
    @brianholcomb6499 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I’m glad you pointed out what the cost was! Those LS3 heads do really good when you have the compression up! People also seem to forget about the deck thickness & material! I know it’s an enforcer, so probably cheaper material! But most think an aluminum head, is an aluminum head! There are huge differences if you plan on using a power adder! Factory heads start moving way sooner!

  • @rickyfulks6656
    @rickyfulks6656 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Awesome torque numbers Eric

  • @jeffwooton7138
    @jeffwooton7138 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Glad I waited to post till the end. You answered most of the questions I had.
    I just wonder about the possibility of overscavenge on the LS3, and not making power with the carb swap. Just spitballin' here.

  • @BN-pi3jk
    @BN-pi3jk 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Love your tech heavy vids!

  • @tonym6854
    @tonym6854 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Excellent test. For the street i think cathedral port is the way to go. I have a similar build with TEA ported 799 heads but with a Mamo ported LSXr/102 combo. Wish i knew the torque numbers. Also i imagine that a dual plane on your test mule would have even more impressive torque numbers. Great job 👍

  • @michaelparadisis4076
    @michaelparadisis4076 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Great test.

  • @johnbernhardt9705
    @johnbernhardt9705 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great work like usual but I would love to see equal compression ratios!! Thank you!

  • @rogergm92
    @rogergm92 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The community says thanks. Thanks!

  • @terryenyart5838
    @terryenyart5838 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    I don't believe I've ever removed a head without carbon build-up to some degree, unless it was eating coolant. Then it's dishwasher clean😮

  • @terryenyart5838
    @terryenyart5838 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Appears the 243 are more efficient . Nice job on the exhaust flow!

  • @DSRE535
    @DSRE535 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Nice job!!!!
    Yeah one thing for anybody that builds engines or deals with a lot of used parts cleaning everything up takes up way too much time unless you have a pretty serious machine.
    what do you do after these heads have been ran to get them cleaned up for the customer?
    blasting cabinet really makes them look like crap, and doing it by hand takes way too much time but anyways lmk, thank you!

  • @davidwickboldt712
    @davidwickboldt712 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +3

    In 226 years we still don't fully understand the the internal combustion engine. So we get unexpected testing results.

  • @lcxu1051
    @lcxu1051 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'm going to say due to the smaller CSA of the 243 heads the port volisity is up more than the afr heads. That with the compression ratio difference is why the 243 heads stayed with the AFR heads and out preformed the afr heads down low untill the head became more port efficient in the upper rpm range where the afr head took over with the little bit extra flow and larger CSA

    • @johnzeek4731
      @johnzeek4731 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I would say that too but he measured the volume and it was the same.

    • @lcxu1051
      @lcxu1051 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @johnzeek4731 there is a difference between taking meterial out from the right area and wrong area. The start of the 243 port flow is just above what the engine will require at that rpm. Where the afr head is well above what the engine needs so port volisity and ramming affect of the port suffers till higher in the rpm range when the engine requires more airflow. If the afr head had bowl and throat work done to it. It will improve more in the top end but I feel it still won't match the 243 head as it will still have a better port volisity compared to the afr head especially when the engine requires that in the lower rpm. Not to mention the port discharge coefficients of the 243 head over the afr head.

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Not saying that this won’t happen but on the sbc when i used a ported head that ended up being larger by 20cc it was up everywhere even down low.

    • @lcxu1051
      @lcxu1051 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @WeingartnerRacing if you take the metal out of the right areas make the port larger that will work. But if you take it out of the wrong areas and make the port larger. It will be bad for flow.

  • @dondotterer24
    @dondotterer24 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm guessing the 243 has more air speeds? And tweaking the cam specs and using the split intake manifold. It's going to make some impressive power! Great job!

  • @realazliving
    @realazliving 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If you look at the average torque and hp numbers on your chart it’s interesting. I already knew the graph would show the 243s are a great all around street head from that.

  • @ClaudeMayer-ek9mk
    @ClaudeMayer-ek9mk 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great job Eric

  • @willrobb9520
    @willrobb9520 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I really wanted to see the port velocity for the 243! I feel like that's part of the dominator mystery on the ls3. I'm real curious what the velocity profile is from top to bottom (roof to floor) between the two heads.
    And yes, RFG power from a set of 243 heads.

  • @patrickoleary6379
    @patrickoleary6379 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Eric, to me, the valve size tells most there. Also,the air speed is more important than we are thought to think. From talking to diff serious head guys,(devs and more), the air speed is one of the most important metrics, and I have found that to be pretty true. I’d be really interested to see the air speeds n the 243s, I would seriously bet, until it goes turbulent, they’re more managed, and more suitable for the turn. Wondering if that’s why you didn’t show the 243s speed, I don’t blame ya if that’s the case. Just thought I’d throw that in there. Good vid as always!

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I didn’t take the measurements because it’s for a customer. I don’t need to do it when I know what I need to do when I’m porting the heads.

    • @patrickoleary6379
      @patrickoleary6379 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@WeingartnerRacing ya absolutely Eric….I figured it wasn’t needed. I have def found, if you can manage the air speed properly to make that turn, even if it looks a lil funky, it will out perform something a lil more conventional, with more spread out and higher/lower numbers than wanted….. didn’t mean to come across as sounding like you were being misleading, it came out wrong….. obv ya know what it needs to look like. I assume that’s the real perk of the wing sometimes, it helps to manage the speed, and give that bit of a directional change. Haven’t played either them much myself. When I used to mess with small scooter engines, guys would hog the ports way out and kill the speeds. They never believed me that I was using a much smaller port design, with proper speeds and a good custom ground cam ( at that point cams were very limited and I believe still are). I was able to make almost 12 hp out of a gy6 50cc engine with a 52mm bore and stock stroke. Most guys weren’t getting past 10hp. That was the most drastic Percentages I’ve seen, obv as almost 25% more was a hell of a lot from proper port and esp intake elbow. They would make or break the characteristics of the engines. I must’ve went thru 10 of em before I found the right size/shape. Darin has said before some numbers about the slope of the walls, and in retrospective, had I followed those guidelines, I couldda saved a lot of time.

    • @patrickoleary6379
      @patrickoleary6379 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@WeingartnerRacing another interesting tidbit, I also used WAYYY oversized carb on that engine. It actually was for a 200cc Honda engine, that was tuned in perfect for my application. Everyone told me it wasn’t gunna work, it was gunna be a dog off the line, and sure I guess it killed a lil throttle response under 3k,( with a stock engagement around 2000rpm), but the clutch didn’t engage till almost 4, as it was spun to 11,500. I can honestly say, it was a beast off the red light. Most 600s couldn’t keep up to 60mph.

  • @yepyep340
    @yepyep340 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    GOOD STUFF!

  • @lauriegregorylgregory6315
    @lauriegregorylgregory6315 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    great work eric,love it, but that half pointin compression is alot and would chng. enforcers #s.

  • @timothybayliss6680
    @timothybayliss6680 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Right on

  • @jonsetzer9556
    @jonsetzer9556 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Start making the high speed bleeds in the carb a little bigger it’s gonna clean the engine up and make more power

  • @rle1020
    @rle1020 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Love the work and effort you’re doing to actually show the differences but I think it’s gonna boil down to the cost factor in the end. Afr enforcers are 1500 and you said there was a 10hp difference vs a ls3 head and those could be had for 500 or less. How much does it cost to get a set of cathedral heads done like you used in the test 2500 or more? Definitely appreciate your effort. Thanks

  • @terryenyart5838
    @terryenyart5838 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I was just going to ask about port length. I'd guess the 243 casting has higher velocity, a bit more compresdi9n making it a better head.

  • @robertbailey3057
    @robertbailey3057 2 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Where can I contact you to discuss purchasing a pair of those 243's?

  • @miniblackmog
    @miniblackmog 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I've heard engines that have to small a head for the displacement/rpm will respond well to a bigger carburetor. Bigblock mopars love big carburetors and it seems to trend with what I've seen

  • @LynnTwinCustoms513
    @LynnTwinCustoms513 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Good information!

  • @alcoatornado2749
    @alcoatornado2749 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    I'll take the thicker deck of the AFR for boost sealing every time...........

    • @jasonstormoen
      @jasonstormoen 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      On stock block stuff going to 1/2" head studs and flame hoops (top fuel hoops) it'll hold all the boost, until the block says I'm out.

  • @joshwynn1836
    @joshwynn1836 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    How would the differences in the heads affect power on a turbo setup? I'm doing a 11:1 408 w/a FIS 91/102 T4, for my 99 Camaro. I chose a set of Dart Pro1 225's. I've had 2 motors, a 408 w/a worked set of LS3 5462 castings done by Land Speed, flowing ~365cfm @.650 lift, about 10.7:1. The other motor was a 403, 11.3:1, w/a set of Trick Flow CNC 225's, a bit more cam, but on a 113° LSA vs. 112° in the 408. Seat of the pants feel, it felt like the 403 would pull from down low, all the way to 7500rpm, where we stopped because of LS7 lifters, still holding power. The car made 540whp. The 408, didn't have the Torque, but I feel it'd pull in the upper RPM hard, but made 556whp. On a different dyno, so the #'s are likely irrelevant. I think with the LS3 heads, you need more cam to use the CFM, but not sure on boost. Thanks!

  • @DARRON40
    @DARRON40 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    very good

  • @dennisrobinson8008
    @dennisrobinson8008 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Excellent.

  • @RoyOlsen-mm4fm
    @RoyOlsen-mm4fm 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +2

    How long are you going to bang your head in the wall with that ls3 victor jr intake? It seems like everybody knows it’s trash but you . I switched to the Holley split and the struggles went away. BIG TIME difference. Also 11:1 against 11.8:1 is 6-7% with right induction

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      You work with what you have. I don’t have others to test. That percent is theoretical and engines don’t always follow that as you will see with the small bore promaxx.

    • @RoyOlsen-mm4fm
      @RoyOlsen-mm4fm 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@WeingartnerRacing I know for a fact that LS3 follows that theory. Absolutely 100% certainty. I understand that you work with what you got, but then you can’t state that you test the difference between two platforms. In this case you should have used a set of ported 823 heads and equal compression. Also it is a known factor that the rectangular intake is no good, but not so bad on cathedral. That’s your answer to why you always lose with the dominator on ls3 heads. Even the super victor is no good, proven over and over again. LS3 will beat the crap out of any cathedral port any day under the same criteria ( maybe not in a tow truck). Same performance level, same valves, same camshaft and equal compression. And FYI the hydraulic lifter loose 5-10thou also, not sure about the short travel.

    • @riggedandjimmiedgarage7268
      @riggedandjimmiedgarage7268 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@RoyOlsen-mm4fm I disagree with rec port vs cathedral port. Tony Mamo and Brian Tooley will also disagree as they stated many times on LS1TECH for the past 15 plus yrs.
      The vic jr is one of the worst cathedral port intakes made. I'd personally use a holley split on the cathedrals.

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@RoyOlsen-mm4fmI can tell you 100% from actual testing that formula is not right. Because 2 point in compression did not do that on this Ls. Hell go look at the bbc testing. It didn’t do that either.

    • @sl3878
      @sl3878 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      proven that the 4500 SV is far better than the 4150 SV LS3 , the disparity in compression ratio makes it hard to really evaluate 1 head versus the other also .

  • @InnocentMiscreant
    @InnocentMiscreant 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Similar to some BBC oval vs rec port comparisons almost like the large rec port stuff is too big for some combinations

  • @lukesimeon5756
    @lukesimeon5756 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Very good info ... could you do port molds of both before you port the afr thanks

  • @doolallyproductions7234
    @doolallyproductions7234 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Its really hard to beat the stock ls3 intake and ls3 heads theres a reason why they say the LS3 is the best engine GM ever made and ever will be made

    • @moparman2692
      @moparman2692 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      I mean, it actually is easy to beat them when nobody takes advantage of them. Just big lazy ports (mostly why Eric saw nothing with the dominator on them). Ls3 heads really need some rpm and to shine bright.

  • @leighhaberl981
    @leighhaberl981 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    the bloke on the street is going to like the 243.

  • @ShawnGilbert1967
    @ShawnGilbert1967 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'd have liked to known what peak timing for HP/Rpm was for each head like 243s were 27 and ls3 was 31 degrees?
    Thanks for all the work and info

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      29degrees for both. If you really played with timing curve you could gain 5ft lbs of torque but no peak horsepower

    • @ShawnGilbert1967
      @ShawnGilbert1967 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @WeingartnerRacing thanks Eric, I went back and caught up on some of your videos and was able to kinda see that, I liked the timing section.
      I do very similar I pull timing approaching, during and just after peak torque ( and it's shift recovery so it helps on the street) and add it back 6500 and then 1 more degree past 7000 ( 7500rpm shifts ).
      Really enjoying the content!! I'd like to see stock Eric ported 823 castings vs ported aftermarket ( I wish you had a straight 6.0 or 6.2l yea yea I know send ya one and you would do it ).
      Really appreciate ALL the time and effort you put into providing info for us, good luck to your son this season...

  • @samstewart4807
    @samstewart4807 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    hi, 1 point of compression is worth 4%?? hp. Do you think you should factor that in at all? maybe use 3%? because it is not a full 1 point of comptrssion?

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      That’s theoretical. An actual engine doesn’t follow that as you will see with the promaxx small bore ls3.

  • @codycopenhaver
    @codycopenhaver 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Could there be a test for the ported enforcers vs ported and milled enforcers? To see the difference compression makes. I know that’s a lot to ask but just curious.

  • @FORCFED
    @FORCFED 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Great job and information sir , what was the jetting on dominator? Did it change from BBC and SBC? Power valve? Thanks 🙏👍

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      No

    • @FORCFED
      @FORCFED 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WeingartnerRacing awesome response ty

  • @abdullaalameri90
    @abdullaalameri90 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Superb

  • @Fatt-billy.racing
    @Fatt-billy.racing 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    If you need a ls3 4500 intake with out having to use a taper spacer let me know ... or if you want to use a bigger cam

  • @CJ5EVOLUTION
    @CJ5EVOLUTION 2 หลายเดือนก่อน

    I'm by far an expert, if one carburetor is not working correctly in one head, wouldn't that point you out that the air velocity is low? Do carburetor venturi sizes don't have a direct correlation with carburetor size and what air velocity is needed? If that same cylinder head worked better with a smaller carburetor would be a relationship that points out to the air velocity to be more adecuate thru those smaller venturi, is like the principle of sucking thru a 1" hose and a 1/4" hose, which one will result in a higher velocity?
    Do the carburetors don't work on the base of air velocity and differential pressure above and below the venturi, at higher velocity more fuel is pulled out and atomized better?
    I don't understand much of your test cell but, I will guess that only paying attention on your O2 sensors seems to not be telling you the complete story, as I understand it, more velocity more fuel thru the carburetor if these are in balance you will have "X" amount of O2 in your exhaust, then you increase or decrease the jet sizes to obtain your desired O2 ratio.
    Based in that is needed a working flow meter on top of your carburetor and a working flow meter on your fuel line, then you can accurately understand what is going on.
    Like I mention I'm far from even be a rookie, but it seems you need more data.
    With a FI system you tell it what O2 you want to achieve, then you can see how busy your injectors are, then I guess one can understand that if they are not flowing much is because not much air is going thru the engine.

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  2 หลายเดือนก่อน

      There are other factors that play a part besides velocity

  • @e85performance
    @e85performance 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Can you do a 4150 intake manifold with the HVH dominator adapter, verse a 4500 intake manifold with a 4500 HVH spacer?

  • @drcolster
    @drcolster 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

    Good testing... But i don't think i saw the Valve Sizes for the 243 Cathedral heads...??

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      2.02/1.55

    • @drcolster
      @drcolster 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@WeingartnerRacing Thanks.. i have LS1 cathedral heads.. the C4B ones done by Callaway for the 300kw engines, used in our Aussie HSV cars... Have you Flowed any C4B Callaway heads, they are cnc ported...???

  • @jasonnash2691
    @jasonnash2691 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Hi mate, didn't see whole vid, which cam did you use

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน +5

      Watch the whole video.

    • @ironmike742
      @ironmike742 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      ​@@WeingartnerRacingexactly. Nice video sir

    • @jasonnash2691
      @jasonnash2691 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@WeingartnerRacing nar, I'll keep watching holdenas vids, least he answers with out being a nob jockey

    • @HerrPoopschitz
      @HerrPoopschitz 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      @@jasonnash2691🤣

    • @ezmny1387
      @ezmny1387 3 หลายเดือนก่อน +1

      @@jasonnash2691 all good man, if you cant read that it says "texas speed stage 2 cam" on every sheet you have no business doing anything to an engine anyway

  • @johnzeek4731
    @johnzeek4731 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The LS3 head can use more camshaft.

    • @WeingartnerRacing
      @WeingartnerRacing  3 หลายเดือนก่อน

      Watch future videos because I tried that.

  • @GaryWhipple-q6w
    @GaryWhipple-q6w 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    The 243probably alot better street able head

  • @jmflournoy386
    @jmflournoy386 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Nice but I think .050 and ,100 matter on running motor cheers

  • @mcintyretyler89
    @mcintyretyler89 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    🫡

  • @faustthehammer8706
    @faustthehammer8706 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Torque wins in 1/8 or 1/4 mile that little bit of hp won't win of launched same ask buick

  • @myrondel
    @myrondel 3 หลายเดือนก่อน

    Eric, I did realize you have a Dynamometer, how come you don't show us the runs? There's nothing like listening to horsepower, it keeps thing real.