The biggest EV battery breakthrough I have EVER seen
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 2 มิ.ย. 2024
- The biggest EV battery break through I have EVER seen
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By my count, your 7th game changing battery technology of the year. Better than one a month!
The Viking gets excited with these things. However, it is not surprising that a lot of battery advancements are coming online. There is A LOT of money to be made in batteries and a lot of people are investing a lot of money chasing that pot of gold. So, hold onto your seats, it is going to be a wild drive over the next few years.
@@anthonymendoza1327 I find myself wondering how quickly these advancements could have been made if we had gotten serious about funding the research in the 1990s.
@@robertkirchner7981 yeah but that’s not the way the world works. We are very selective where we put energy and the math has to make sense for the time. The story has to be clear that putting millions or billions into something will net more than you put in. It wasn’t clear in the 90s.
@@robertkirchner7981 Maybe. These advancements have been largely driven by improvements in computer toolsets. Computers have advanced about as rapidly as was possible given the labor pool of talented engineers and scientists. Some things just advance at a certain speed and throwing more money at it doesn't necessarily make things quicker. That said, we certainly could use more money in basic research and investing there will eventually give a large return (historically 30-100% return on investment). However, it is hard to say where that research would have led us.
@@anthonymendoza1327 I hear that same statement every few years. It was the solid state batteries in a few years back in 2018 lol always a few years, never "now"
"Game Changer" I've heard that a lot on this channel.
Not just for car... but powerwall too. Thanks for sharing.
Thanks for the shorter into. Getting to your info more quickly is great! (Branding is good too)
Major battery breakthroughs are being announced almost daily now.
3x a day is more like it!
Credibility is a real hard
thing to establish.
Nickel king
Big deal.. they lose on manufacturing
全都是中国企业
I'm negotiating what batteries I want in my electric boat. I think I will ask for these. Wow. Not just the density and weight advantages but low fire risk. That's really important.
My home built LFP battery packs are 115 watts per kilo at the pack level using CATL 110ah cells.
What happened to sodium ion battery, CATL said they will available from jan22
Good to see your unending "game changer" enthusiasm ,enjoyable and inspiring to watch
Congratulations, you give us the most comprehensive reviews of developing battery technology for EV's anywhere on the internet and I am so happy that you are among us! Thank you, thank you so very much! A shout out to Australia as well....
Another ‘game changer’.
It’s interesting how much of the world is massively invested in solving this.
Most will fail, but we only need a few to succeed.
Rampant capitalism is truly impressive.
This is exactly it! If you follow this EV trend you can 'feel' capitalism working super hard. So much new technologies, the winners can only be determined in hindsight, but (part) of them are among us already. Exciting times.
Great video. Personally we still didn’t get to a revolution point until we don’t use more sustainable, cheap and abundant materials in stead of expensive, scarce and unsustainable materials like Niquel, Lithium and Cobalt.
i think the silicon cells of catl will change the game
Thanks for actually talking about the tech; most other channels spend 75% of their time going over same history that we already know. Good works.
Of all the "break-through" and "game changing" battery tech news, ok I think I can believe this one. Still, until one of these Qilin battery is inside an EV car, I will still hold some doubts until further testing.
there's people that have made a carrier of making breaking news on battery tech 😅a lot of what is covered in this "new" battery is marketing jargon. with that said, it looks like a promising form factor. only issue i can see is that the individual sections are larger there will be less margin of error, increasing manufacturing costs. i do believe the specs of the battery, but how much will it cost 😉
fyi, Tesla (and others) put cooling channels in between there old batteries and have also make structural battery packs. so nothing new there. What does look new is flat pack cells that are also structural, generally flat pack arn't as safe, but that's a company that should know what there doing and there's a good reason for making this battery. although, could be a way to generate interest in stock, nothing new
Rational skepticism is a virtue. We pessimists are rarely disappointed. Etc, etc. I too await further developments, but it is certainly encouraging to see all the new designs for better EV batteries. Never a dull moment!
@@MrHeHim what's a intelligent man like you who knows all the manufacturing techniques of a battery doing on TH-cam?
The LFP version of this battery is slightly less powerful than BYD blade battery. So after 2 years CATL has almost made a battery as good as the Blade. Some breakthrough
Until next week.
Byd is planning a high end coupe in its luxury brand for 2023 that will use next generation blade lfp battery and have 1000km range. Their pack level density will probably reach 180 wh/kg or even higher. Byd is ahead of catl in lfp technology.
When the Biggest Battery Maker in the World says this YOU TAKE IT AS FACTS.
I love your channel Sam, always informative. Keep up the good work.
Things are changing so quickly ... amazing
I've been hearing about "game-changing new battery technology" every month or so for the last few years. Where are they all now?
Love your passion Sam. Amazing breakthrough - thank you for showing it
Glad you enjoyed it!
Please tell about catl m3p battery .
Thank you for share, your advice on Panasonic was in it’s place sam the money I invested in early January is doing average but by the end of the year we can look at it again and see how it is doing .
I hope this doesn't mean Panasonic is out! I just bought some of their stock!
Great job you’re doing mate. Keep it up. Thank you
Much appreciated
Great reporting with facts thank you
Let's see...1,000 km of range equals about 620 miles of range here in the US. 10 minute charging time? That's great too. Let's hope this comes to fruition. Not many gas powered vehicles get anything close to a 600 mile range..unless they get 50 to 60 mpg..and not many of those are being produced. Thanks for this info. I enjoy your TH-cam channel. Keep up the good work!
In the US, maybe, but dirty diesels such as a Volkswagen Golf or my €2,400 2007 Renault Megane Estate all exceed 1,000 km (with 4 persons and luggage). Not that it's really a valid comparison point today anyway. Shorter ranges are also less and less of a problem as the charging networks improve year after year. We probably won't see vehicles with these new CATL battery packs before 2024 or late 2023, by which time even a 600 km range EV would be perfect.
Mine Citroen C4 diesel 1.5 turbo gets not far of 600 miles on a full tank.They either make a move on or many people will stick yto what they have.Lower the price of EV'S and far better range.
If that 620 miles is with a very efficient vehicle that uses gets 6.2 miles per kWh, that's a 100 kW battery. It'll take a massively powerful charger to push 80% of that into a pack in ten minutes, and fairly massive area infrastructure to back that up.
Batteries are just the first step in making very fast charging widely available.
Keep in mind that is likely NEDC or WLTP both of which are far more generous than the EPA estimates
@@macrumpton Lots of unknowns in this announcement indeed, and we have yet to see a car in real life with this new battery pack so we can run some comparisons.
4680 was overhyped and an easy target to beat. we are gonna have multiple game changers in the years coming.
Yes, there's a lot of hype about both EV battery tech and EV's right now, just like the very first autos, or very first airplanes, or very first computers, video games, and every other tech you can think of. We'd all like to know what's going to win in the future. Where's that "Back to the Future" time machine I need??? If I get one, off to the horse track first priority!!!
4680 has the hype that it does because it's going into production very soon. Most of the big "game changers" you are likely talking about are still likely 5 years out at the soonest, while 4680s will be in cars this year. Yeah, the form factor change doesn't give as great an improvement as a change in chemistry but it can be scaled up now with existing supply chains.
TBH, no single type of battery will be sufficient to meet the titanic demand in the coming years.
@@WorldOfHurt101 4680 has been talked about for more than 2-3 years before it hit production. cybertruck will have been talkeded for eternity before it hits production. the longer it takes the less it means when a new technology comes out eventually.
@@qilu2004 And when this tech gets rolled out in 2-3 years, some other wonder-tech is going to be in development that blows this out of the water the same way this bows the 4680 out of the water. It takes a long time and lots of money to bring something from the lab to millions of units, and there's no guarantee it'll even work out.
@@WorldOfHurt101 why don't they, including tesla, just keep working on their new tech in r&d and roll them out when ready? instead, they tell the world and their rivalries what they are working on. do they do that to prop up stock prices or slow people down from buying others' cars?
OMG this will be game changing, Tesla and GM have new competition in the battery sphere. I may have to finally give in and trade my Lexus and Camry for a EV if this tech comes to mass market.
If this is true .it could mean small cheaper cars with decent range ,which is what we have all been waiting for. Keeping fingers crossed.
I need a graph to visualize the advantages of this new tech compared to what's available today.
:(
There was always the possibility that a conventional battery break-through would take the wind out of the sails for Solid State. I don't know if this will be the real thing but if I had to guess I would say that CATL will deliver.
Solid state is bigger. Most solid state won't need to worry about the extra weight and can just be integrated into vehicles without additional cooling or extra structural systems to protect the battery from being punctured. You'll be looking at 21+% lighter packs with solid state and much higher volume efficiency than the current industry leading 72% here. Bottom line is this is being way overhyped like a lot of other "breakthroughs." It's good but it won't "kill" solid state. Those are on a whole new level.
Hope you'll do a follow-up on GMG's aluminum-ion battery this year as they just completed their pilot plant for pouch size batteries
I know I'm niggling but Watts per kg is not energy. Watt hours per kg is a measure of energy density.
That is a big deal! Good timing!
Energy density is no longer the priority. It’s all about cell production. He who builds the most cells wins.
Qilin is pronuced as "Chi Lin" in English. And you do can invest in CATL from offshore funds in HongKong. BTW the PE 2022Estimate is around 50 now.
You need to adjust your mic input down a little mate, it’s running hot and distorting.
Love the videos.
You have mentioned so l'many game changing technologies but so far the game has not changed that much hahah
But he does get views.
Only game changing if it actually happens and right now it hasn't..all these battery break throughs but none have actually broken through yet.
> Bet the farm on it Sam, bet the farm.
Hi Sam thanks for your fantastic videos I'm waiting for your atto 3 information when you get the car can you let us know wich is the best battery the blade or call and wich cars it's in once again thanks for your great videos patrick uk
I wouldn’t write off solid state yet.
This CATL announcement is a true game changer it seems because it is not just an announcement, it is going into production. The question is since it still uses lithium, the cost might still be relatively high. We'll have to wait and see.
Well, CATL's other Sodium-Ion battery development should reduce the cost of battery by 30%. This battery company is making waves.
This will make a dent into range anxiety. But that is only one issue. What needs to be done is reducing the cost of EV batteries by 75 percent.
What needs to be done is to have a predictable charging experience. First. Always. Owning a BEV sucks ass when it’s a gamble every time you try to use a public charger. Everything else is second place
Have you ever spent 50 minutes at a supercharger, hoping that some day a faster charge would be available?
Looking forward to when they can put these more advanced batteries in vans as the range at the moment is not very good.
respect to Lucid air , as they made their Battery inhouse, and the way of their Battery arrangement with cooling is the same as CATL is doing now, so shout out to LUCID-Air, and the Only addition is the Blade technology which is a big salut to BYD and CATL Too....
The Kirin battery looks awesome!! Still, I wouldn’t write off solid state yet. Passenger cars really only need 150-250 Wh/kilo at the pack level. Trucks? Maybe more like 350Wh/Kilo. But planes need 500Wh/Kilo minimum, and 1kWh/Kilo to disrupt the whole industry. Love the progress!
It all comes down to price in the car and peaker plant use cases.
@@macrumpton And weight
It's spelled Qilin, not Kirin.
Propably CATL will dominate market of EV batteries and some much smaller projects will just push CATL to keep innovating. Looks great for future of EVs
@@trp2413 they will mine and and recycle, also other parts of industry will switch to other materials if prices increase.
Sam, when you talk about solid state battery, never say never!🙂
I saw this announcement a few days back, thanks for giving your take on it Sam. My 2019 e-Niro has a pack weight of 457 kg and a useable capacity of 64 kWh. That gives it a pack level density of 140 Wh/kg. And of course its an NMC 811 turnery battery. The range it gives me is just fine, even in worst case highway driving in the winter into a headwind I have never been able to drive for longer than the battery will last in one sitting of driving i.e. 300 km. Local driving in summer will see 500 km easily...not that we have ever let the battery go that low. It’s weakness is in charging time, which peaks at 75 kW and doesn’t sustain that for long. So, an LFP Qilin battery from CATL @160 Wh/kg would have a capacity of 73.1 kWh at the same weight of 457 kg would give me around another 60 km of range, which is always useful. On long road trips we are typically charging from 20 something % to 80...which takes about 40 minutes on my car but would be under 10 minutes with the Qilin. Yes, I would call that a breakthrough.
And with LFP you could use most of that 73kWh with no damage to the battery for thousands of cycles.
LFP gives me the good nights carefree sleep @100% and the resultant full tank on waking, and also with little degradation over an extended lifetime.
@@davidpearn5925 I have never lost any sleep over the SK Innovation NMC811 battery in my Kia e-Niro. We’ve had the car for over 3 years now and there has been no perceptible loss of range. We know there were some fires with Hyundai Kona (LG Chem) but the batteries supplied by SKI have never suffered from spontaneous combustion, not one reported case as far as I know. As for durability, you have cycle ageing and calendar ageing. To all intents and purposes my car will never have a problem with cycle ageing. Yes, if you charge to 100% and go down below 10% every time you will be limited to between 1,000 and 1,500 cycles before >20% capacity is lost. Even so, that’s 0ver 450,000 km for the e-Niro, but who ever charges like that!? Data shows than an NMC battery will take a lot more cycles before degradation when charging from 20% to 80% or 30% to 70%....what I call ‘micro-charges’ (20 minutes at the supermarket on an AC charger for example) when you add 4% or 5% don’t really count as ‘cycles’ but last year we got about 1,000 km of driving this way. In the last 6 months I have plugged the car in 62 times, mostly at home, 15 times on public DC chargers, taking it to 100% charge 8 times. Including ‘micro-charges’ we average 160 km per charge. From the available data an NMC battery will take at least 2,500 cycles in the 20% to 80% range which is our normal MO when charging at home...comfortably over 400,000 km..I am 65 years old and we do 20,000 km a year...I think the car battery will comfortably outlast me!!... but sure, LFP would be even better, a true million mile battery.
@@kiae-nirodiariesencore4270 I’m significantly older and the LFP will certainly remain valuable long after me.
Our small (50) is full every morning and good for 440.
@@davidpearn5925 Your just another clueless nut that thinks nothing beats LFP but just like all batteries they age and with all lithium batteries age kills the battery more than cycles, which is why every single battery has a warranty between 7-10 years. If your so called LFP battery is so much better then give it a 25 year warranty like many solar panels get!
This would make think twice about buying a EV at this time knowing what's coming down the road so to speak !😄
Yes, the Osborne Effect started to become prominent 30-40 years ago. It's unavoidable, and will keep accelerating. Might as well buy and take your lumps now, because it will get worse in the future, and you'll spend your entire life waiting for the next big thing.
buy thé ßóark ev 9⁰ miie rànge
never mind the different cars .it looks more and more important to pick the right batteries:()
Dear Mr Viking... can you also find out what's happening in the Li-S world? Li-S supposed to be suitable for aircraft and drones due to MUCH higher battery densities... they achieved 1000km range a decade ago. but this is still tremendous news! Now we just need to replace the 1100 Chinese 240 US and 260 Indian coal power plants with Thorium MSR or Geothermal
Tataria has held the secrets to an old technology that people will be dazzled by as a new breakthrough and this is just a fraction of what is coming.
I wonder if CATL’s approach can be replicated or improved upon? Perhaps they have IP that would prevent others from pursuing a similar approach?
Hi Sam, can you keep a spreadsheet of these battery improvements, costing, scalability, charging times, environmental impact, chemistry, advantages. Then when you speak to these changes, it gives us more color as to the real impact of these batteries.
Maybe More data comparisons (detai) and cut 50% # of “breakthrough”
Finally!! I hope to have such Batteries in the CityTransformer car... But I need a much more powerful motor and 4x4 for the CityTransformer.
That’s amazing, can’t wait!
How does it compare to the BYD Blade battery in the puncture tests. Could this technology be used to boost a battery using a Blade configuration?
Doing good work mate
It's to be hoped the game changing technology spurs you on to sort your audio out.
You know what else 10 minute 10-to-80% recharges enable? Motorsport as it has been practiced for over a century, fuel stops and all. The particulars will change as they always do, but there will once again be utility in trying to leave the pits as soon as possible without running out of fuel. I think this will be good for the electric car racing circuit.
I would love to see a further analysis on these batteries. Is the energy density high enough for electric planes or does it need to double one more time?
And information on cost, production quantity and weight? These are the factors which will determine the impact of this battery on the market.
The proof in the pudding is always in the eating. We shall see!
We will see. For now, I just doubt it
What is needed is a 70 lb. ( most adult males can handle 70 lb. ) 7kwh battery for the lawn care industry. Something that can be swapped into machines running 8 hours a day.
If I understand it's mostly down to the elastic membrane cooling system.
If I'm understanding correctly. The battery in my PHEV is about 136Kg for 9Kwh which gets about 45km of EV range. This should make that same pack be about 34Kwh, which would make my EV range about 166km instead. I think I'm missing something here, so maybe it's about half that but that seems like a massive improvement.
I'll believe it when I see it in a purchasable product. Far too many 'world changing' claims seem to disappear when they get closer to the date they claim to change the world by.
With this battery tech, much smarter and cheaper to ditch the engine and complex transmission and add a few more batteries to make a full EV.
@@lengould9262 Probably, if I could have found an affordable EV with about a 600km range I probably would be driving one. I do too many time sensitive trips do be waiting half an hour for top ups so the PHEV made more sense fir me as long trips are gas and go but all my daily driving is EV only. Hopefully this tech actually becomes usable and available in cars. I've seen far too many 'this battery changes everything' for the past 20 years that I'm not holding my breath.
@@Snerdles 136kg for 9kWh isn't anywhere near li-ion energy density, you could probably already change the battery to a better one. Hybrids make sense in some parts of the world but in many of those locations
@@AnalystPrime That's just an estimate based on the PHEV being about 350lbs heavier than the basic hybrid version with only a 1kwh battery so my math is probably a pretty far off wild guess.
Luckily I live and work in the same city so even all my shopping, family stuff, and work are under my PHEVs range and then long trips I don't have to plan around chargers or long wait times, just gas and go and run it like a hybrid. It's the best of both worlds for my situation.
I'm not sure you can compare small PHEV batteries to BEV batteries like that. A PHEV battery likely sacrifice energy density for higher power output from each cell. It is a small battery but still needs to deliver enough power to the car to run in EV mode.
Probably you also have a big buffer so the battery can stand more cycles without degrading too fast. I imagine you have to charge it at least once per day, compared to a BEV you might have charged maybe two times per week in the same situation.
Not a breakthrough, but a packaging evolution, and kind of BYD Blade Knockoff.
BYD Blades did this first, and IMO better.
BYD Blade also does Cell to Pack, but each blade cell is the full width of the pack, which means many fewer wiring connectors.
Cooling setup is essentially the same with a thin layer between each Blade, and the volumentric density is superior for the Blade LFP.
The only advantage CATL has is that they also have an NCM version, but if you can get enough capacity out of LFP, it's the better option.
There's more in store regarding batteries. Packaging ins one side of the coin, Electrolytes are the other one.
At the Heimholz Institute in Ulm they build a machine to automatically mix up Electrolytes, produce coin cells and then test those. This way they can test several 100 Electrolytes in a day to find the most promising mixtures fast and then concentrate further research on those. They already have some success.
Wow! Every day a new battery breakthrough that’ll change the world! What a time to be alive.
The problem is all these breakthroughs seem to take at least a decade to bear fruit.
@@macrumpton apologies, but I was being sarcastic.. people seem to be willing these changes into existence, and lots of people are making click bait videos cashing in on this desire. Apologies again, I’m not normally sarcastic.
They may have a cost advantage from factories in China, but that also means they have a big carbon footprint disadavatange. The Chinese grid is still really high-carbon. The nordic-manufactured cells have something like 1/40th of the emissions footprint. That's a big deal, especially in markets with carbon taxes and border taxes.
It’s amazing 🤩
What would be the range be on a 108 lfp kwh battery like in the byd tang.
If it is that good then should you buy now or wait until these vehicles are available.
This day should be remembered in infamy for the legacy automotive manufacturers for their complete rout by the Chinese auto industry.. To me its the same moment in time when Japan had done the same in the 70's with thier cars which where reliable, cheap and comfortable.
The ETF with the ticket "LIT" contains CATL, about 5% of the total in that fund.
Rumor king
very interesting
If it's as good as they say it is it will be interesting to see if they can scale up manufacturing without significant delays.
Retooling as we speak
we have heard all this before on many new batteries
30 years that I m waiting the new technology replacing the Lithium.
I have exposure to CATL through the fund with the symbol EVS traded through the SGX. The top ten holdings include CATL, NIO, Geely, BYD, Li, and others.
Yeah, but I havent heard you talking about the metals and origin of earth materials needed to produce each one of those. My point is, the actual components needed to manufacture batteries will change in the near future due to harvesting issues of essential earth metals. Research is advancing on it by the day and new future discoveries will change the scenario.
This is an excellent development for batteries when they hit the market in about two years. Maybe I’m ignorant, but I’m more optimistic about the potential of sodium-sulphur batteries that might be on the market in as little as six years. Wait and see.
Looks like an extremely well thought out and meticulously engineered system. I always thought the 4680 was a piece of overhyped nonsense, hard to assemble into a battery pack, hard to cool, impossible to pack tightly, and with a cell jacket that is pointless inside a larger battery pack.
Don't forget fast and cheap to assemble, tabless to allow faster charge and discharge with less heating, and structurally strong.
@@macrumpton Yes, pretty much the polar opposite of his assessment 😂
You can buy shares in CATL from Hong Kong listings most large companies dual listed both in China and Hk so you can freely trade Chinese companies via HK exchange
Tesla advocate acceleration leaving them the NMC type, high density and flammable solution. If we don’t crave for acceleration and take twice as long to accelerate can lend us an alternative to a cheaper and more reliable type LFP battery solution.
On the other hand Tesla’s patented 4680 architecture promising a higher density at a higher diameter to a higher thermal resistance leading to a heat sinking problem outside the capability of the coolant scheme found in model3/Y.
I work at Volkswagen USA in Chattanooga Tennessee where the electric cars are made and this information says this won’t be available for ten years if ever
A single charge getting me through two weeks of commutes? I'm in. But the global worry remains - raw material supply chain.
before watching - won't be a break through, but let's see... EDIT to after , I'm well impressed
Remember during the hot rod ICE period.We had after market products to increase HP etc.Plus as EV racing leagues get large budgets for research.Using quantum AI how many products will be found to inhance Evs.
Between this and Our Next Energy's Gemini battery pack I think it is safe to say game over ICE.
A pack that is a combo of both their technologies would mean a Tesla Model S with 1,000 MILES (1,600km) of range.
Or a BASE Nissan Leaf with 370 miles(595 km) of range.
Congratulations CATL. This is the biggest news. However, Sunwoda's battery will take 15mins (4c) to charge but cheaper and have a way longer life than Qilin. Watch out! No wonder Xpeng G9 chose Sunwoda. Tesla 4680 needs to match these specs now.
What is the range on the lfp version ?.
I didn't hear any mention of a weight size or cost comparison
cylindrical batteries will probably always be cheaper to manufacture and the 4680 has just begun to iterate, I wouldn't bet the farm on CATL yet.
... and next week another breakthrough. Folks all over the world are working on this, some very exciting things are going to happen. Can you imagine how great 2027 cars are going to be?
I can see batteries with 5000 km range with 5 minutes charge time to 80%. ICE will die in 5 years
They just need to be less shit than the ones produced in 2008. Think about that. Parts available, models available, cost effective, reliable, insurable and suitable for 99% of the use cases. Range? No. Fixable? Yes! Currently we have 6-12 month waits on pretty much everything. How is this better than 2008?
@@theairstig9164 To be fair the average age of cars on the road has gone way up and those 2008 cars are still going and worth more than anyone could have predicted. And that’s with 2000 more things to go wrong than an EV. All modern cars are lasting longer than auto makers wanted them to.
Battery technology is improving much faster than in the past from 1890-1990 the battery decreased in cost at a rate of 2%-3% a year with a tail wind of decreasing commodity prices of around 90% over that time while since then batteries have been decreasing at 10% in cost per year but with the head wind of commodities returning almost back to where prices were 100 years in real terms(inflation adjusted)
Graphene battery technology is going to knock the shit out of this battery.
I would like to see a sodium version as it doesnt require the cooling, can charge a d discharge all the way, is way less susceptible to cold.
Important questions. How much does it cost to repair/replace. How many GWH of this battery can CATL build per year? How many miles will these batteries deliver over their lifetime? Will the batteries be 100% recycled?
Yep, these question absolutely need to be answered before you can say one reasonable word about the impact of this battery. First becasue they are not cylindrical i doubt production will be as cheap as competitors. Secondly, how much output can CATL realize. 'mass production' is a lose term Thirdly, lets see real life longevity and degradation patterns. I do have faith in this last one.