i will be honest, i play for fun. I do oft use legends and PTR these days, but i dont like absolute min maxing in this game. I like to pick up what i can and make them fit. yes, it means i struggle come the crisis and i cannot always do well, but sometimes i have runs with amazing bros and i walk through Orc camps like a breeze. I know you need to min max to get the harder battles to work, like Ijirock, monolith, etc, but my personal point would be why are we sweating for a game that we are meant to enjoy? I started playing a new peasant run and i had a really decent lumber jack (with legends & PTR, you can get bonuses for starter weapons that transfer mediocre benefits for late game - man was doing work with that T1 2handed axe) and i threw all my resources into him. And i lost him to a fucking crossbow bolt to the head from a mercenary company. but my company survived and i moved on. we as players will optimise the fun out of everything, so sometimes its better to let the dice fall as they may
Thats right, but its your Point of View. Its a Hard Game and a lot of People Like to MIN MAX and get a crazy good Company thats why they play. And some people like you try to have the most fun with funny builds and everything super Casual. I think everybody enjoys the Game for different reasons and yes you can play it casual and enjoy crazy builds like the Lumberjack in your Hilarious Story, may he rest in Peace he wont be forgotten :)
@@tobsejoto dont get me wrong, i do try min max those bros i do get, but i dont go hunting for them if that makes any sense. I dont like hunting for the perfect bro. if i find one that i think is okay, hes in the squad to die like the rest of them 😂😂 i know there are some backgrounds which if you roll the dice you can get absolute monsters. once found a theif with 3 star melee, 2 star defence, high rolled on all stats - built him into a dagger/qatal wielding, lone wolf dodge/relentless maniac on the left edge. Lightest armour i could, Hyena skins attachment. paired him up with a polemace for that reach stun, i think i was still playing unmodded at the time. the pair of them took down an orc warboss, with the theif ducking and dodging like a master and the polemace alternating between throwing nets and trying to stun him. I dont think they can be stunned though as it never worked, but the bastards did it.
Yeah thats a very Casual way too approach the game, i do it myself in Some runs and its crazy how far you can go with suboptimal bros. The Guides that i make are Mainly for new Players who wanna beat the Game and an Inspirition for Advanced Players to maybe try something new or have a great Discussion aabout how to approach the game :)@@primachpepe8597
@@tobsejoto orcs, goblins, humans, direwolves, serpents, all of em. 20% overwhelm per archer on a miss is not to be overlooked. 3 archers nerf any enemy if not kill them outright. I think you may be miss using the archers.
@@tobsejoto especially against orcs. Spearwall to keep them at bay and archers to kill them. One slips past use two hand spear to push back or mace to stun.
The concerning Part is behind The Spearwall, which is an early game Thing but dosnt do anything Lategame. The Nerfing is Nice but again late you fight 40 Orcs how you gonna defend your Archers ?@@wittyjoker4631
@@tobsejoto my spearwalls hold just fine. A few will get throught but again thats what the maces are for. I had more trouble using archers early game than late game cause they suck early and dont have perks to make them useful even on miss and miss a lot. Plus the enemy will take extra turns to avoid the spears and go around to the back cutting their forces in half letting you essentially fight them in 2 groups. A few war dogs to stack that demoralizing effect and compound chance to hit helps as well.
I'd say your builds for pure archer and xbow are Suboptimal for both damage and utility. 3 spiked impaler xbow men hard destroy chosen and orcs. Especially with headhunter, fearsome and overwhelm. A poison xbow is even nastier. In order for a bow and xbow to come online with damage at L6, the archer has executioner while the xbow has crippling strike. With turn order manipulation and the xbow in front to land injury, an archer can land hv damage even before the melee front engages. And that's an L3 or 4 archer working as part of a fire team. The final build has killing frenzy and headhunter to cap. Imagine that, the entire band causes a line of injuries for the archer to chain slaughter. Otherwise, build the ranged bros with overwhelm. The malus to hit chance works everywhere.
Thats very interesting, i think ranged is a playstyle that i dont enjoy so much. I Tried multiple range backliners, it was nice until i get to lategame Fights where i fight 40 orks or chosen and i cannot effort to have weakspots. But your right if you build it correctly and go All in it can work. Nice Comment i Consider trying that in the future.
@@tobsejoto U can swap ur team in most of ur runs. No need to take Archers in Orcs fights if its Warrior heavy. 1Archer is Ok to killing Young or Berserks. And u always can swap them to Polearm backliner. No problem.
I play a lot of Lone Wolf and Gladiators, so i learned to play without ranged guys, but your right i can swap in other Origins. But to be honest i find there Damage especially against a lot of Armored guys not appealing and there always get run at by flanking opponents, and i now have to Defend my archer. Thats why i really enjoy having backliners that can engage i mellee with multiple enemies without dying and without needing to rescue them. I tried Thrower duellist Hybrids with Swords for Mellee, they worked kinda well for ranged because they can also fight in combat. But great Comment should have mentioned that in the Video.
@@tobsejoto explains quite a bit. A thrower hybrid is more efficient in a 12 man band. My alternative build uses nets, bombs, potions/poison and dogs. That's bags and belts with quick hands. A berserker mushroom pole hammer bro has lots of mileage as armour breaker for archer builds to shine. In the case for gunners, a tank with snake mantle can bait a knot of enemies to eat gunfire. That's some of the most efficient application of armour break plus fearsome in a 12 man band.
My brother has been harping on me to build melee defense on my archers, this is why. If your archer is a nimble duelist in their own right they can tank a lot. My favorite build is: Pathfinder Dodge Student Bowmaster Footwork Nimble Fearsome Overwhelm Bullseye Headhunter + Execute at 11 Leveling Ratt, Mdef (2+), Fat (3+), and the high roll/most needed for secondary's. They usually focus on killing other archers and anyone in a third rank, but I'll only take 2 (one for regular bow, one for crossbow/handgonne). Bullseye is only really good when you have a high enough Ratt that you're not hoping for a lucky hit anyways, so I take it later when I might actually want to thread the needle and think it might actually hit.
@@tobsejoto yeah, I think it's just that they get outscaled. They're solid mid game builds, but I wouldn't try to find any god bro archers. That's why I'd only ever get two. They're usually the first mid game bros I find, just because hunters.
I got a famed bow on my 6th day of the campaign and since then i builded a pure damage archer and he was a killing machine , after giving berserk usually he makes 3 kills in one turn.
Problem with not having single ranged unit is that enemies often won't come to you. And it's usually better for example when orcs have to come to you so you can utilize terrain better than have to come to them.
Orcs always charge you no matter what. One ranged Unit is often not enough because you need more than your Opponent in order to getting charged by them, so you need to have 3 or sometimes even more too get them to charge you.
I've tried to make archers work many times, but they're just a nuisance when dealing with dangerous enemies. I almost always make 2-3 of them because I find them really good to draw enemies early on, but as soon as you start fighting heavy armored enemies they become borderline useless. So they get replaced and I usually keep one around to snipe goblins and necromancers. Polearm/Thrower hybrids are much, much better in almost all aspects.
You speak out of my heart everytime i try to make them work, they just disappoint but having one sniper for easy but annoying fights is fine i guess there just uselless against all the big boys
@@tobsejotoAbsolutely. And I only have few archers when Im playing regular 20 men squads. They're a big no with only 12 brothers. Also, a lot of people around here dont seem to realize that most injuries basically do nothing to enemies, and even if they do you would rather have them dead rather than injured. And that's not even mentioning that you cant even injure very tough enemies, or if you can, you cant do it reliably. And what's even worse is that you need high ranged attack for them to be of any use, where a duelist thrower with 70 ranged attack can outdamage them by 3X. It is really nice though when you headshot that one annoying enemy across the map, but that's about it.
@@Qlicky Yeah it feels good and can be nice against Arbelesters ore NomadGuners and Stuff but in a lot of Hard fights there are just dead weigth and compromise the formation
Pure archers are weak, i agree here. Otoh archers/thrower is solid. A very good unique bow could convince me to make a pure archer though but that's very random.
I only build throwers with bags and belts for nets smoke pots, and more throwing weapons. And crossbow/thrower. Or crossbow/pole arm hybrids. Usually with bags and belts also. Xbox hybrids you can still shoot swap to billhook attack, and can still move 2 attack with polearm. Switch shoot with Xbow.
If i have unique bow i would make a thrower/archer hybrid. Mostly because for fun and some gimmicks like killing hexes,necromancers. Also i can see use of it in goblin city or if you play beastslayers u may do it as beast don t have much armor. Generally i use guns for procing morale checks, and throwers(2-3)kills everything which is 3 tiles away.
My spreadsheet says a famed bow should be quite good but in practice somehow the crossbow always comes out on top in terms of damage. Bow just misses even with 90 skill. When it doesn't, the enemies are too close to fire on anyway
i dont like him because he takes too long to come online crossbows and throwers are way better early and late i kinda dont need him so i dont build him that often
The average guy as you could see in my Video was a Premium archer as well it can work . By the way i dont think it is a Premium build espicially damagewise its average at best.
@@tobsejoto it isnt, difference between those 10-15 attack is huge and not taking hunter for that job is usually never ends good.Hunters and mercs also roll few events to boost skill even further
I had great Hunters before 120 plus ranged skill that dosnt change the fact that bows do so little damage against armor that i basicly never put my perfect Archers in the Team because their damage and survivability are really Bad as soon as you fight big Camps where you are outnumbered and you cannot defend your archers against flanking enemies.
Many fights have no ranged units and as soon as you have good bros with god armor you can just ignore ranged units no need to pick somebody off. But its nice against early enemies i guess
@@tobsejoto when you use in addition the PerkTreeRevamp mod its getting even stronger and it durn into a sniper Vanilla BB is kinda generic in comparisson
I dont think the archer is the worst, they are just utility bros, I keep 2 on my back flanks that have stars in ranged atk, and melee/range def. You just swap to swords and shield for necros and when orcs barge through the lines, so its important to get bags and belts/quick hands and overwhelm otherwise they arent very functional. With their setup it is more of a rng game but they can hold their own as with relentless the high initiative gives them a surprising amount of defense with the dodge skill, when they swap to a shield they are as good as a front line attacker as far as defense goes. They both have a melee in the 50s though so they arent the best by any means but it is a fun way to play especially against goblins and bandits. Anyways, I like your content I'm gonna go check out some more bye!
I used all game campaign this tactics: 60-70% crossbowmen and 30-40% shields unite with spears. Sooo when I attack I slowly moving shooters/shields like turtle. When I need defend myself, I used same tactics. Oh, and, I prefer to targeting one enemy for killing at start making enemy morale is less
I can't speak English very well. So my video of battle with young orcs can tell you more about tactics. Hope you will watch it and comment some th-cam.com/video/DifEeG61fhI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KCZ7g0pKtSh5xMWL
@@tobsejoto But it worked when i played. Just you must help very well your shooters or melee brothers as much as possible. I dont know why, youtube deleted my second comment when i shere link to my video
I think its not allowed to Post links in comments and i saw your fight its easy against 12 orcyoungs but against 30 with alot of Berserkers and Warriors its not Possible
![จบจนได้ ! | Black Myth: Wukong #007 [ตอนจบ?]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/DSqvWndF0sw/mqdefault.jpg)
i will be honest, i play for fun.
I do oft use legends and PTR these days, but i dont like absolute min maxing in this game.
I like to pick up what i can and make them fit. yes, it means i struggle come the crisis and i cannot always do well, but sometimes i have runs with amazing bros and i walk through Orc camps like a breeze.
I know you need to min max to get the harder battles to work, like Ijirock, monolith, etc, but my personal point would be why are we sweating for a game that we are meant to enjoy?
I started playing a new peasant run and i had a really decent lumber jack (with legends & PTR, you can get bonuses for starter weapons that transfer mediocre benefits for late game - man was doing work with that T1 2handed axe) and i threw all my resources into him. And i lost him to a fucking crossbow bolt to the head from a mercenary company.
but my company survived and i moved on. we as players will optimise the fun out of everything, so sometimes its better to let the dice fall as they may
Thats right, but its your Point of View. Its a Hard Game and a lot of People Like to MIN MAX and get a crazy good Company thats why they play. And some people like you try to have the most fun with funny builds and everything
super Casual. I think everybody enjoys the Game for different reasons and yes you can play it casual and enjoy crazy builds like the Lumberjack in your Hilarious Story, may he rest in Peace he wont be forgotten :)
@@tobsejoto dont get me wrong, i do try min max those bros i do get, but i dont go hunting for them if that makes any sense.
I dont like hunting for the perfect bro. if i find one that i think is okay, hes in the squad to die like the rest of them 😂😂
i know there are some backgrounds which if you roll the dice you can get absolute monsters.
once found a theif with 3 star melee, 2 star defence, high rolled on all stats - built him into a dagger/qatal wielding, lone wolf dodge/relentless maniac on the left edge. Lightest armour i could, Hyena skins attachment. paired him up with a polemace for that reach stun, i think i was still playing unmodded at the time.
the pair of them took down an orc warboss, with the theif ducking and dodging like a master and the polemace alternating between throwing nets and trying to stun him. I dont think they can be stunned though as it never worked, but the bastards did it.
Yeah thats a very Casual way too approach the game, i do it myself in Some runs and its crazy how far you can go with suboptimal bros. The Guides that i make are Mainly for new Players who wanna beat the Game and an Inspirition for Advanced Players to maybe try something new or have a great Discussion aabout how to approach the game :)@@primachpepe8597
honestly i play this game for roleplay purpouses and completely ignore the min max aspect
@@siluda9255 fair enough :)
i love doing cultist runs for that
High initiative archer with overwhelm behind a spear wall is amazeballs.
Against Beasts sure, against big orcs and chosen or human Camps Probably not.
@@tobsejoto orcs, goblins, humans, direwolves, serpents, all of em. 20% overwhelm per archer on a miss is not to be overlooked. 3 archers nerf any enemy if not kill them outright. I think you may be miss using the archers.
@@tobsejoto especially against orcs. Spearwall to keep them at bay and archers to kill them. One slips past use two hand spear to push back or mace to stun.
The concerning Part is behind The Spearwall, which is an early game Thing but dosnt do anything Lategame. The Nerfing is Nice but again late you fight 40 Orcs how you gonna defend your Archers ?@@wittyjoker4631
@@tobsejoto my spearwalls hold just fine. A few will get throught but again thats what the maces are for. I had more trouble using archers early game than late game cause they suck early and dont have perks to make them useful even on miss and miss a lot. Plus the enemy will take extra turns to avoid the spears and go around to the back cutting their forces in half letting you essentially fight them in 2 groups. A few war dogs to stack that demoralizing effect and compound chance to hit helps as well.
I'd say your builds for pure archer and xbow are Suboptimal for both damage and utility. 3 spiked impaler xbow men hard destroy chosen and orcs. Especially with headhunter, fearsome and overwhelm. A poison xbow is even nastier.
In order for a bow and xbow to come online with damage at L6, the archer has executioner while the xbow has crippling strike. With turn order manipulation and the xbow in front to land injury, an archer can land hv damage even before the melee front engages. And that's an L3 or 4 archer working as part of a fire team. The final build has killing frenzy and headhunter to cap. Imagine that, the entire band causes a line of injuries for the archer to chain slaughter.
Otherwise, build the ranged bros with overwhelm. The malus to hit chance works everywhere.
Thats very interesting, i think ranged is a playstyle that i dont enjoy so much. I Tried multiple range backliners, it was nice until i get to lategame Fights where i fight 40 orks or chosen and i cannot effort to have weakspots. But your right if you build it correctly and go All in it can work. Nice Comment i Consider trying that in the future.
@@tobsejoto U can swap ur team in most of ur runs. No need to take Archers in Orcs fights if its Warrior heavy. 1Archer is Ok to killing Young or Berserks. And u always can swap them to Polearm backliner. No problem.
I play a lot of Lone Wolf and Gladiators, so i learned to play without ranged guys, but your right i can swap in other Origins. But to be honest i find there Damage especially against a lot of Armored guys not appealing and there always get run at by flanking opponents, and i now have to Defend my archer. Thats why i really enjoy having backliners that can engage i mellee with multiple enemies without dying and without needing to rescue them. I tried Thrower duellist Hybrids with Swords for Mellee, they worked kinda well for ranged because they can also fight in combat. But great Comment should have mentioned that in the Video.
@@tobsejoto explains quite a bit. A thrower hybrid is more efficient in a 12 man band. My alternative build uses nets, bombs, potions/poison and dogs. That's bags and belts with quick hands.
A berserker mushroom pole hammer bro has lots of mileage as armour breaker for archer builds to shine. In the case for gunners, a tank with snake mantle can bait a knot of enemies to eat gunfire. That's some of the most efficient application of armour break plus fearsome in a 12 man band.
Wow thats sounds amazing im goonna try this out thanks for the Comment .
My brother has been harping on me to build melee defense on my archers, this is why. If your archer is a nimble duelist in their own right they can tank a lot. My favorite build is:
Pathfinder
Dodge
Student
Bowmaster
Footwork
Nimble
Fearsome
Overwhelm
Bullseye
Headhunter + Execute at 11
Leveling Ratt, Mdef (2+), Fat (3+), and the high roll/most needed for secondary's.
They usually focus on killing other archers and anyone in a third rank, but I'll only take 2 (one for regular bow, one for crossbow/handgonne). Bullseye is only really good when you have a high enough Ratt that you're not hoping for a lucky hit anyways, so I take it later when I might actually want to thread the needle and think it might actually hit.
sounds like a solid Archer Build i personally just dont like them later in fights in Late ganme when every fight just eats arccheers alive
@@tobsejoto yeah, I think it's just that they get outscaled. They're solid mid game builds, but I wouldn't try to find any god bro archers. That's why I'd only ever get two. They're usually the first mid game bros I find, just because hunters.
@@BouncingTribbles Agree on that they are nice in Free Fights but in harder Fights they just suck
@@tobsejoto Can't stop the flankers when they outnumber you 2-1 ;)
@@BouncingTribbles So true xd
I got a famed bow on my 6th day of the campaign and since then i builded a pure damage archer and he was a killing machine , after giving berserk usually he makes 3 kills in one turn.
ok thats incredibly lucky i guess you made it work than its nice if it works like that
Problem with not having single ranged unit is that enemies often won't come to you. And it's usually better for example when orcs have to come to you so you can utilize terrain better than have to come to them.
Orcs always charge you no matter what. One ranged Unit is often not enough because you need more than your Opponent in order to getting charged by them, so you need to have 3 or sometimes even more too get them to charge you.
I've tried to make archers work many times, but they're just a nuisance when dealing with dangerous enemies.
I almost always make 2-3 of them because I find them really good to draw enemies early on, but as soon as you start fighting heavy armored enemies they become borderline useless.
So they get replaced and I usually keep one around to snipe goblins and necromancers.
Polearm/Thrower hybrids are much, much better in almost all aspects.
You speak out of my heart everytime i try to make them work, they just disappoint but having one sniper for easy but annoying fights is fine i guess there just uselless against all the big boys
@@tobsejotoAbsolutely. And I only have few archers when Im playing regular 20 men squads. They're a big no with only 12 brothers.
Also, a lot of people around here dont seem to realize that most injuries basically do nothing to enemies, and even if they do you would rather have them dead rather than injured. And that's not even mentioning that you cant even injure very tough enemies, or if you can, you cant do it reliably.
And what's even worse is that you need high ranged attack for them to be of any use, where a duelist thrower with 70 ranged attack can outdamage them by 3X.
It is really nice though when you headshot that one annoying enemy across the map, but that's about it.
@@Qlicky Yeah it feels good and can be nice against Arbelesters ore NomadGuners and Stuff but in a lot of Hard fights there are just dead weigth and compromise the formation
Pure archers are weak, i agree here. Otoh archers/thrower is solid. A very good unique bow could convince me to make a pure archer though but that's very random.
Yes it it and i have trouble making them work.
I only build throwers with bags and belts for nets smoke pots, and more throwing weapons. And crossbow/thrower. Or crossbow/pole arm hybrids. Usually with bags and belts also. Xbox hybrids you can still shoot swap to billhook attack, and can still move 2 attack with polearm. Switch shoot with Xbow.
Those builds make more sense than an archer in my opinion.
If i have unique bow i would make a thrower/archer hybrid. Mostly because for fun and some gimmicks like killing hexes,necromancers. Also i can see use of it in goblin city or if you play beastslayers u may do it as beast don t have much armor. Generally i use guns for procing morale checks, and throwers(2-3)kills everything which is 3 tiles away.
Yeah these builds are far supirior in damage and utility.
My spreadsheet says a famed bow should be quite good but in practice somehow the crossbow always comes out on top in terms of damage. Bow just misses even with 90 skill. When it doesn't, the enemies are too close to fire on anyway
You need 100 ranged plus aditional hitchance from a famed boe to make it work
I use an archer to encourage enemies to push. I hate when they turtle like I do.
Thats a good use for him he makes easy fights more easy i guess
barbarians, and southlands, and goblins are not easy until late game.@@tobsejoto
royal houses, too.
@@tobsejoto
i dont like him because he takes too long to come online crossbows and throwers are way better early and late i kinda dont need him so i dont build him that often
I agree, you've changed my mind.@@tobsejoto
Dont build average guy into bowman, its premium build which goes full damage with executioner and headhunter
The average guy as you could see in my Video was a Premium archer as well it can work . By the way i dont think it is a Premium build espicially damagewise its average at best.
@@tobsejoto it isnt, difference between those 10-15 attack is huge and not taking hunter for that job is usually never ends good.Hunters and mercs also roll few events to boost skill even further
I had great Hunters before 120 plus ranged skill that dosnt change the fact that bows do so little damage against armor that i basicly never put my perfect Archers in the Team because their damage and survivability are really Bad as soon as you fight big Camps where you are outnumbered and you cannot defend your archers against flanking enemies.
@@tobsejoto this much is unrealistic but 100+ is doable for any ranged worth its salt, and bow is about picking of other ranged in exposed head
Many fights have no ranged units and as soon as you have good bros with god armor you can just ignore ranged units no need to pick somebody off. But its nice against early enemies i guess
In the Legends mod i use the Archer to apply effects like poison or bleed(with runes)
But any other rangend option is better
In terms of Damage i would agree in Terms of utility they might have a use case
@@tobsejoto for dmg i use in legends handgonne and slings(northern sling)
@@mircoheinemann331 They are good in legends
@@tobsejoto when you use in addition the PerkTreeRevamp mod its getting even stronger and it durn into a sniper
Vanilla BB is kinda generic in comparisson
@@mircoheinemann331 Sounds nice im gonna try that
I dont think the archer is the worst, they are just utility bros, I keep 2 on my back flanks that have stars in ranged atk, and melee/range def. You just swap to swords and shield for necros and when orcs barge through the lines, so its important to get bags and belts/quick hands and overwhelm otherwise they arent very functional. With their setup it is more of a rng game but they can hold their own as with relentless the high initiative gives them a surprising amount of defense with the dodge skill, when they swap to a shield they are as good as a front line attacker as far as defense goes. They both have a melee in the 50s though so they arent the best by any means but it is a fun way to play especially against goblins and bandits. Anyways, I like your content I'm gonna go check out some more bye!
I always had trouble make them usefull Lategame but i guess its a Playstyle that dosnt fit me thank you for watching my videos
I used all game campaign this tactics: 60-70% crossbowmen and 30-40% shields unite with spears. Sooo when I attack I slowly moving shooters/shields like turtle. When I need defend myself, I used same tactics. Oh, and, I prefer to targeting one enemy for killing at start making enemy morale is less
I can't speak English very well. So my video of battle with young orcs can tell you more about tactics. Hope you will watch it and comment some
th-cam.com/video/DifEeG61fhI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KCZ7g0pKtSh5xMWL
th-cam.com/video/DifEeG61fhI/w-d-xo.htmlsi=KCZ7g0pKtSh5xMWL
That will not work against alot of Opponents especially a lot of orc Warriors
@@tobsejoto But it worked when i played. Just you must help very well your shooters or melee brothers as much as possible. I dont know why, youtube deleted my second comment when i shere link to my video
I think its not allowed to Post links in comments and i saw your fight its easy against 12 orcyoungs but against 30 with alot of Berserkers and Warriors its not Possible
Does duelist works with bows?
No the Bow is a 2 Handed Weapon, it only works with throwing weapons.