The Space Jockey has Returned, Can they Save the Franchise?
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 พ.ย. 2023
- Aliens Dark Descent features its own take on the Space Jockey, the pilots race, or the Mala'kak. The Space Jockeys were replaced in pretty much all of the media of the Aliens universe with the arrival of the Prequel films, and the Engineers. But now they are back, what does it mean for the larger universe, how are they in comparison to HR Gigers original Pilot of the Derelict on LV426 Acheron? What does this mean for the Xenomorphs?
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My personal head-canon for a long time, now; the Space Jockeys are the _real_ creators of the xenomorphs, among other things, and are one of the most ancient species in the Alien universe, while the 'Engineers' were nothing more than extremely advanced alien synthetics created by the Jockeys, too.
Occam's Razor, really. I have said it before, and I'll say it again; Scott really fucked up the lore badly.
Yes the Jockeys I think created the engineers. The jockeys found us and found out we were organic and left us alone and the engineers hate us for it cause they idolized their creators. Which is why they wanted to destroy mankind. I also think the exnomorphs wher created to clean up creations that the jockeys weren’t satisfied with. Also cool thought. They also created the predators. Also the jockeys ship is 100% organically grown and the creators are half organic and half machine. They couldn’t figure out the black goo as well as the jockeys
I was incredibly disappointed when I saw Prometheus. Ridley squandered the Space Jockey, something that was arguably the most intriguing thing from Alien. Making it into a glorified space suit was such a waste.
@@nodak81 Fuckin'-A, it was a waste. I was expecting an ancient, truly alien species similar to Lovecraft's Elder Things, but nope, just alien-made space suits.
Prometheus was ....Meh. Alien Covenant was just terrible.
The engineers is a cool idea , but I’ve always seen the Xenomorphs as living batteries to power the spacejockey ships
They have protruding sockets on their hips like they should be attached to contraptions with bone wires , also the way they curl into the walls in ALIENS to me is like a birthing pod Much like Replicant birth bags from 2049
They are made to be used and thrown away by something far beyond our comprehension
After all those years i think that's important to notice how the giant albinos of Prometheus ended up as a failure to build up on the original Alien Space Jockey mistery. I don't care if ignoring Prometheus relegates new works to alternate universes; i just think that the Engineers were horribly underwhelming as a concept. I also dislike when a cosmic horror became an anthropocentric story with the whole creation/destruction of human race thing. It's a lot better when humanity is just an unlucky bystander of bigger and completely extraneous events. In a word: alien.
On top of that Jesus… just Christianity. Wtf?
Prometheus had religious nonsense like "Jesus was an Engeneer". 🤢
Most people give a f about that stuff, and it just made the story torally dumb.
You can't do that and expect success in a world where the vast majority of people aren't christians.
@@CordeliaWagner It had that in Scott’s original script but thankfully it was all rewritten.
Totally agree, its almost as if Ridley Scott missed of alot of design details of Gigers work for the space jockeys. I would like to aee a sequel to alien covenent but 1 that fits perfectly with being a prequel to Alien, this would take some clever writing and scripting, adding a new race that bridges the gap between the Ridley Scott engineers and the original space jockeys wpuld be a step to solving this mess
Boring what you just described, idk why ppl just want high budget b movie horror slasher film, repeating the same shit is boring
My guess is that the space jockey found in the original ship on LV426 was not unlike the Pilot of Moya on Farscape. A part of a living ship,the Pilot is the ship and the ship is the pilot's outer body.
That was exactly my impression. The jockey is several times the size of the humans, how is it an engineer in a suit?
i always imagined the "space jockey" was actually some type of highly advanced deprivation chamber the pilot would be inside of and use a built in hud that would tap into vibrations, sound and neutrinos that the pilot would utilize to control the ship, keep an eye on everything and plot out and monitor the the course on some grand scale among other things. also meditate. this would be an ideal pilot situation no distractions. total focus. total awareness.
In the script when the engineer get into the chair he takes a deep breath , it’s say it’s the last breathe he’ll take until he arrives in earth
This idea of biomechanical integration would simply be a matter of studying and returning to Giger's form, albeit, an oddly singular one. I have multiple Giger art books weighing more than 5 lbs each, one of which is dedicated solely to his work that inspired the xenomorph, and all the extensive work he did for 3 different sequels which barely got a mention. When that man did a project, he wasn't fucking around. He made chrome xenomorph chairs, inlaid designs etched into metal sheets used as ceiling surfaces, and I could go on.
ANYWAY, point being, his "mechanical city" (not his term) is a hellish and erotic environment where EVERY sentient creature is plugged into some functional apparatus that benefits, and provides a service to the hive, not just "space jockey" pilots. There is no concept of singular identity or segregated thought, as every function and physical feeling is instantly understood on the biomechanical network. His works within and beyond the Alien universe, almost always portray erotic horror tinged with esoteric elements of oneness, collective consciousness, and implicit democracy, which lends an offsetting "utopia" element to the ghastly, orgasmic scenes. Most people see his art and toss it to the side with a sharp "what the fuck!?" but I find it extremely layered and always driven toward the unification of oppositional states of being, revealing the human tendency to unnecessarily separate emotional responses into good/bad categories the way we do physical ones.
I always find myself toggling between gratefulness that I wasn't born in that place, and wishing I were.
This example of the Space Jockey, is one of only a handful of concepts Giger released which portrays a single creature whose mechanistic function is an extension of its body; In fact, there seems to be no distinction between function and form. Usually, he felt unsatisfied creating one creature with this constitution, and not continuing to "plug" it into another, as the singular example seems to betray its own ethos.
Giger definitely had inspiration: There are several ancient civilizations who made artworks with these types of interconnected human systems, which often form complex mosaics made with only a single line and no separate parts, so that the entire scene is made of human connection; they usually had spiritual significance, a detail instinctively dismissed by many due to the sometimes "orgiastic" nature, but fail to consider both the interconnectedness of physical and spiritual ecstasy understood by many ancient (and less prevalent, modern) societies, but primarily fail in their literal assumption that the artwork's meaning is pornographic. Again, we see the spiritual domain expressing the unification of function and form once the inner Being becomes fully relieved of the illusory nature of duality, or is liberated from its meat sack upon death. Giger was very well-read in these esoteric concepts, so his artwork seemed revolutionary mainly due to the "otherworldly" element, which stimulates fear of the unknown. The ancient artworks weren't scary, at all. It's only with the introduction of a wholly unfamiliar and sentient creature, that instinctively inflicts a sense of danger. Jesus, I feel like I just did a book report. You're welcome! :)
Have you seen Scorn? A video game that uses alot of Gieger style models and concepts
@@KiwiSpartan01Even DOOM used him as an inspiration, the Maykrs and their little hell-disguised-as-heaven world of Urdak are such an obvious call to his work
Well done! Very enjoyable to read. There is also a thesis out there on google that also analyzes his work. Myself I only have the Taschen artbook as a gift but I love his works. I agree with a lot of what you said, because a lot of his work is misunderstood in the final analysis. The thing Giger always intrigues me with is his deep unconscious fear of reproduction, female energy (there is no such thing as a distinctly male or female form but the impression of feminitiy/masculinity) as the bearers of human reproduction/population, the evolutionary process driven by reproduction, the unpredictability of existence itself and the underlying process of the passage of time. His utopia feels very much like a dystopia, or a blend of the two -- in a way a horrified fascination with his own trauma.
I honestly really like this change in direction. Dark Decent, but more specifically the biomechanical city, reminds me a lot of the video game Scorn (that game is amazing btw.) with the way that these giants were strapped in (maybe permanently?) into the tech around them.
I love the Engineers, I think they're super cool, and have a lot of potential from what we've gotten so far (including the sequel comics they were in.)
Given where all of this could be leading, there are going to be so many opportunities for more exploration, I can't wait!
I always figured with the jockey at least, was similar to the cylon hybrids, except grow
Too bad they didn't have the chops to deliver an ending that kind of story deserves. Their Idea for a big bad boss was the skull crawler from Skull Island.
Honestly, this "new direction" would simply be a matter of studying and returning to Giger's form. I have multiple Giger art books weighing more than 5 lbs each, one of which is dedicated solely to his work that inspired the xenomorph, and all the extensive work he did for 3 different sequels which barely got a mention. When that man did a project, he wasn't fucking around. He made chrome xenomorph chairs, inlaid designs etched into metal sheets used as ceiling surfaces, and I could go on.
ANYWAY, point being, his "mechanical city" (not his term) is a hellish and erotic environment where EVERY sentient creature is plugged into some functional apparatus that benefits, and provides a service to the hive, not just "space jockey" pilots. There is no concept of singular identity or segregated thought, as every function and physical feeling is instantly understood on the biomechanical network. His works almost always look like erotic horror, tinged with esoteric elements of oneness, collective consciousness, and implicit democracy, which lends an odd "utopia" element to the ghastly, orgasmic scenes. Most people see his art and toss it to the side with a sharp "what the fuck!?" but I find it extremely layered and always driven toward the unification of oppositional states of being, revealing the human tendency to unnecessarily separate emotional responses into good/bad categories the way we do physical ones. I always find myself toggling between gratefulness that I wasn't born in that place, and wishing I were.
Giger definitely had inspiration: There are several ancient civilizations who made artworks with these types of interconnected human systems, which often form complex mosaics made with only a single line and no separate
parts, so that the entire scene is made of human connection; they
usually had spiritual significance, a detail instinctively dismissed by many due to the sometimes "orgiastic" nature, but fail to consider the interconnectedness of physical and spiritual ecstasy understood by many ancient (and less prevalent, modern) societies. Jesus, I feel like I just did a book report. You're welcome! :)
@@sisterseeth YES OMG ALL OF THIS!!! The main thing I didn't like about the prequels was the lack of H.R. Giger's message/perspective.
The Alien franchise was never supposed to be about AI committing genocide, or becoming so obsessed/in love with somebody enough to kill them.
The original meaning (at least in the first couple of films,) was about men's fear of pregnancy and rape.
I always loved that aim/perspective in the films because it's a breath of fresh air. Taking sensitive topics, and not only aiming them at the people who often perpetuate them, but giving a lot of creative liberty to how said topics are handled was a great plan, and was executed perfectly.
I know H.R. Giger is dead, but I still think they should have expanded on the beautiful horror of biomechanics. The material was RIGHT there.
I know commenting on a YT video about this kind of thing is an easy way to "rock the boat" so to speak, but I don't comment often, so I thought I would give it a shot.
And, if you don't mind me asking, where did you get those books? I'd love to find a copy, if possible.
@@mel.r6589 Well, nobody ever replies to my long-winded posts, so we both got a rare surprise xD
Agreed, everything is so homogenized, now. There's no underground left for young, subversive voices anymore...they've all been bought by Disney. An older music artist was accused of selling out for making a love song instead of his usual grittier, poetic work, and he said "look man, if you don't write a song about sex, breaking up, getting high, or falling in love, you can't make the mortgage anymore." He's right, and it fits for every media outlet imaginable. The goal is replication of what has worked before rather than giving the fans innovative perspectives, leaving younger generations lethargic and not even realizing the thing that's missing. The industry producers have become so creatively dull, that to turn any kind of profit, they have to reboot blockbusters - and imitation isn't a sincere form of flattery, it's announcing to the world that creativity is an external phenomenon. But the execs have done this, in some degree, to every Alien film since the second one. You've read the original third script, right? It was originally a space colony of monks that lived celibate lives in a space station made entirely of wood. Amazon Audios did an original audiobook using that script, and even got some of the actors from the film to do voices, and it is some consolation. But, of course, those corporate assholes got high on the smell of 1979's box office grand slam, fired two writers after completed manuscripts because some investor didn't like the religious overtones. And let's not even mutilate ourselves with the reminder of Blomkamp's Alien 2.5 continuation story of an older Ripley, Hicks, and a living, breathing Newt. But, because Scott was making Covenant, a prequel having nothing to do with the original cannon, he threw his weight around at Fox and it got canned. Check out the newish (July) article at comicbookmovie (dot com) titled Alien 5: Neill Blomkamp Believes The Movie Didn't Happen Because He "Doesn't Play The Hollywood Game."
Anyway, whoo, let me get my breath. lol.
Believe it or not, I got the Giger books on Amazon, the shittiest place on Earth. BUT, don't just look at the Amazon price (although I did get a crazy Giger deal that way once), look beneath the "add to cart" for the other vendors. Don't go by the first visible price, click on the "view all" and go down the list. You will probably be surprised. In 2 of 3 cases, I chose sellers that listed as "very good" and received books that had never been opened...like, the cover had that slight "snap" of a hardcover being opened for the first time. But, try eBay, too. I think I found one there for a steal. These are originally $60-90 books for $15-$23. betterworldbooks(dot com)and other used book suppliers. The best quality and most encyclopedic of his works are published by Taschen. They have more affordable, but huge books that have mostly b&w photos (with some gorgeous color spreads), and they have the big, coffee table, color ones. If you're a big Alien fan, I would recommend the Giger Alien 40th(? I think) Anniversary hardcover with slipcase. It has an insider crew story about every single picture, and really expands his entire Alien works, which is truly jaw-dropping. I think I got mine on sale for $35, which is the most I paid for any of them. I casually hunted around for years and then, they all seemed to show up at once. Unless you're loaded, I would just window shop until you see a price that sends your blood pressure to the rafters! Face hugs!
What I want to know is if the Space Jockey was killed by a chest burster which I've always felt is what's implied in the movie, then what happened the the alien that came out? Is it still on LV-426?
Im guessing it would lay dormant in the derelict like they do in hives, waiting for something to come near it to use as the next host. I should do a video on this...lol.
@@scifiexplainedMany fans (myself included) assume that ship landed tens of thousands of years ago on LV-426.
Again it's a SJ vessel. NOT an Engineer's. Distinct differences like shape and size. It's smaller than a juggernaut and it's wishbone shaped.
Whatever happened to the creature is quite simple to deduce. It's dead.
Very, VERY dead. There is nothing for it to have fed upon during the ennui to have kept it going. No nutrients, a very hostile atmosphere comprised of methane and not a lifeform in sight. The ship was never "hived", either. That thing was damned the minute the face hugger crawled into the space between the space jockey's probiscus and its mouth. In fact it's hinted in the script of Alien that the doomed Jockey had enough time to set down on that world, and to activate the quarantine/warning beacon before it perished violently.
What if it fed on the facehuggers in the ampules in the hold that facehugged Kane @@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462
@@sonofeyeabovealleffoff5462
So what laid the eggs and how did they survive?
Not a fix.
@@jonharrison9222I think the derelict was transporting the eggs. There could've been any number of reasons for it, but the reason I think so is because of the space provided in the ship would suit that purpose, and also there appeared to be some kind of stasis field or something preserving the eggs. I'm guessing a lone facehugger attacked the pilot, and the resulting Xenomorph finished off the rest of the crew, and as was mentioned went to hibernate somewhere and is probably dead by the time the ship was discovered. Would be neat if anyone ever put what happened on screen like we thought we were going to get with Prometheus.
Yay cant wait for elephant mans to return!!
I'm glad Scott was prevented from bastardizing the franchise any more than he already has.
You people are so small-minded in your hatred for Prometheus and Alien Covenant
I think the story still has a lot of potential to be good and the lore can still be spun to not contradict the rest of the franchise
PROMETHEUS was amazing....
new creatures from the same universe as the xenomorph....
COVENANT - apart from the neomorphs - was crap....
Both was trash fr Prometheus was better but both were trash
I would’ve loved for him to finish his prequel trilogy. I felt that they made everything even more interesting. I thought both were amazing, and I would go as far as calling Prometheus a masterpiece.
A good prequel was that the company sent a crew to go to lv426 and they realized it was a danger to return those species to earth and that whole crew got wiped out like they did in rogue one. The actual warning signal in alien came from the weyland crew that was using the alien technology to send the signal out.
Is that what this game is?
Far as I am concerned, I rely on a quote Elizabeth Shaw used in Prometheus. “And who made them?”
So as far as I’m concerned, the Space Jockeys made the Engineers, and the Engineers made humanity and possibly the Xenomorphs or the Space Jockeys made them and like David they simply tried to recreate them with the Deacons, Neomorphs and Praetomorphs.
The Space Jockeys have faced Xenomorphs and Predators just as the Engineers have.
Perhaps the larger “Ancient Citizens” were a larger subgroup or perhaps even the original Space Jockeys.
We missed you. I hope everything is well. BTW the modeling in the game is great.
Thanks! I moved and had a bunch of other life stuff come up, but the future for the channel is looking great now!
Who is we?
Are you a fanclub or someone who feels entitled to speak for others?
@@CordeliaWagnerWell their comment has 16 likes so at least them. No need to be a prick about it.
They completely f'ed up when they dropped the plans for the Space Jockey's and their homeworld, Paradise. It could have been along the lines of Forbidden Planet in steroids. It would have shown audiences an entirely new level of Sc-Fi/Horror.
I believe the Xenomorphs have been around for a very long time I think both the jockeys and the engineers influenced by them, I like to think at least in my own head that every civilization eventually leaves its world finds the Xenomorphs tries to utilize them in some way and ends up wiping themselves out. They are the great filter in the Fermi paradox.
I hope we'll see the space jockey in a future movie not like the engineer from Ridley Scott prequel movie.
I go with the jockey, or the species that created the jockey created the engineers and the engineers worshipped this species as their god to the point their tech is inspired by their creators but with metal. Cause the engineers ships and buildings look really different
I like to imagine that the Jockeys are one of bio-mechanic creatures from the game Scorn. the world of Scorn fits just perfect for the jockey's and the alien's origin
Same, and those creatures would create the engineers
@@tgiacin435Correct. I see it like this, the Engineers are the Igiggi from Mesoptanian myth and the Space Jockeys are the Annunaki, since Scott wanted to take it into a religious direction like the movie StarGate 1994 tackled false alien gods posing as the Ntjrw (Egyptian God pantheon name) of the Kemetic peoples. The mural in Prometheus is clear. The Engineer is condemning the Jockey, pushing it away.
"WE DO NOT NEED YOU ANYMORE. WE ARE THE GODS NOW."
(Even if Scott refuses to see it that way, because let's be real for a minute here, he's lost the plot. Parts of Prometheus and Covenant make that VERY clear.)
Awesome
you can tell the devs were influenced by HR gigers art design
You’re on the same thing😅
It gets to a point where the story is so disrespected that there is not enough suspension of belief capable of making it make sense anymore and not look like what it is, just not real. :(
I love this theory! Ridley Scott really screwed up the Alien Franchise with his bullshit but this fixes everything and lets all Movies exist within the Franchise!
And it wasn't only his to do so with either. Dan O'bannon wrote Alien, not Scott. H.R. Giger's thoughts on the matter of his designs ought to not be ignored entirely either. Offhand, I think the guy was better at coming up with concepts than Scott, especially seeing the results of the prequels.
@@mikerude5073 True but let's face it the Alien franchise has been handed around by Fox with little care for lore or continuity from day one!
@S-T-E-V-E You wouldn't have Alien 4, AVP and AVPR without it!
@mikerude5073 spot on, Giger's otherworldly vision is what gave the creatures their aesthetic and modus operandi, while O'Bannon made it fit within a story form. Ridley of course brought it to screen among other things but it is by no means his, and what he has done over the past decade+ tells us he is overdue to be put out to pasture.
@@S-T-E-V-Eto Aliens' credit, aside from being one of the greatest Scifi-Action-horror films ever made, Giger approved of the direction Cameron and the creative team took with the Xeno, and most fans feel Aliens is more than a worthy sequel, so "day one"... no...yes to day 3 tho 😊
It’s cool to think that the space jockey skeletons were used as suits for the engineers. Like the jockeys were a more ancient and separate species.
Another option is that the engineers are simply a different sub species of the space jockey. In the same way the predators have variants in size etc
They are pretty different physically, so separate species is more likely. However, they could still be part of the same civilization, with the Engineers having been conquered and integrated by the Space Jockeys at some point in the past.
@@Uzarran yeah I prefer that
Great to finally see Giger's original biomechanical space jockey's acknowledged for what they are, not the Ridley Scott's idea. In some way so to really investiage the space jockey could ruin it's mystery. But having them as a engineered slave to some ancient evil that that is far more terrifying. A future movie where human run into the space jockey's race and are taken captive at their home world with little chance of a rescue could be interesting.
@adrianfox7972 You're right about that & the scenario you describe of an engineered slave race to an even older & scarier extraterrestrial species is very similar to some of H.P. Lovecraft's best work . That , or something very similar to that , was actually supposed to be the direction that the prequels were going in but the execution was massively flawed .
@@johnohara3683 The first film prequel film was pretty flawed but at the end it opened up what could have a been a much larger alien universe. Convenant felt more like trying to go back to original alien film formular and failed at that. The small particle alien infection was pretty cool and creepy though. Definitely something more lovecraft/biomechanical advanced alien race. I'm not totally against the idea that the engineers where just a race similar to ours and bowing down to something much more terrifying ( like a servent race that worships the advanced race), but that would feel like a bodge job to do that now.
@@adrianfox7972Ridley Scott still has most of the control over this franchise . He's the reason Fede Alvarez got to make Romulus & he's the primary executive producer for the Alien television series . I've read that he intends to finish his prequels using the series as means to do it. Which doesn't do much for me at this point .
@@johnohara3683 Same with me, not much hope for anything Ridley Scott brings to Alien. Would have been interesting to see where the original writers wanted to take alien.
Well, that's the thing about Ridley. Covenant was basically capitulating to what he'd tried to avoid for his entire career . 20th century Fox had been wanting to get him to make another creature feature within this franchise for years . He almost made a completely different Alien 3 in 91 but he saw the Xenomorph skull on the trophy wall inside the ship at the end of Predator 2 & said thanks but no thanks . They were wanting to do an AVP movie even back as far as 91 so that idea was repellant to both Ridley & Cameron ( who had also passed on the offer to return a few times ) . I get it . Why would Ridley Scott be interested in trying to remake his own classic ? That's what they wanted him to do . He wasn't interested in making the type of movie that Fox & alot of the fanbase were desperately hoping that he was . I really do feel that if Fox hasn't played their bullshit games ( like baiting Ridley with a one shot, standalone film called Alien:Engineers, which would have been the movie alot of people were hoping for ), & then talking him into a trilogy when there wasn't anywhere near enough material .
The original screenplay by Jon Spaights was for s movie of around 2hr & 45 minutes & though similar to Prometheus , it was very different . They brought in Damon Lindelof & along with Spaights , were told to hack up his original screenplay into a trilogy. They fucked it up before they even began filming & It was easy to talk Ridley into this because it gave Scott an opportunity to try & weave this larger mosaic of which the original Alien was just a part of . He put it like this . " Prometheus has two children. One child will grow up to be the original ALIEN & the other will grow into something much different . We're going to follow the growth of that second child closely but we will be checking in on the progress of the first child from time to time ."
The most disappointing moment in any film in history is when it is revealed in Prometheus that the space jockey we see is just a suit containing something that looks pretty much human.
Ever pay attention to how Ash and Bishop are sort of in awe of the face huggers they examine? I've wondered if they recognized the hand of David in the making of the face hugger. Or maybe David left behind a signature of some sort? Or even realizing that the face hugger is the result of biological engineering?
Would love some longer form vids from you, love the content
Great video my friend!!
Absolutely love your channel!!
In my head canon the “space jockeys” are an off shoot of the base engineer race, that started after an “unethical” group of engineers carelessly messed with genetics to the point that they eventually began to experiment on themselves using the black fluid. Inadvertanly causing the xenomorph creation and that the xenomorph are possibly the “space jockey’s” immune system that started to mutate and evolve so rapidly becoming a form of “sentient cancer” that became its own stand alone species.
Welcome back🎉
Thanks, great to be back!!!
Well there is always a way to change things, I will say that RS made a mistake in Alien Covenant. The David as the Creator of the Xenomorph works as far as the Themes of the Prequels but they should have known how conflicting this would be... Originally before being FORCED to make a Movie that has to have Xenomorphs, David was to Create his Own Monster which looked more different to the Xenomorph in Alien and Alien Covenant.
But this Topic is about the Space Jockey and I think that the ONLY problem with Prometheus was the Engineers Scale...
They were supposed to be 12-15ft and then resized to 10ft for the Final Drafts. In production the size was supposed to be 10ft.
(1). The original Shot of the Altar had a Sacrificial Cup, the Scale of this compared to Holloways Hands would make the Sacrificial Engineer be about 10ft. Maybe why it was changed to a Crystal.
(2). The Engineer Head they recovered, the Helmet Prop was bigger than the Suits the Actors wore for the Hollogram Scene and the Pilot Seat Scene. And the Head within the Helmet that exploded compared to a Human would make that Engineer about 9ft or so Tall.
But the use of 7ft Actors and refusal to use like Lord of the Rings/Hobbit effects etc... meant the Illusion of the Engineers were only upto 7.5ft (8ft Space Jockey suited).
This causes a conflict with the Space Jockey whos proportions on the Prop would make him 13-15ft (assuming it had Legs).
It was never a Suprise to me that the Engineers were the Space Jockey as HR Gigers Concept Works for the Face Huggers and Life Cycle Mural for ALIEN had indicated that it was a Space Suit and the occupants were Bald Headed Humanoids.
In Hindsight they should have been kept a Mystery or introduced as a Biomechanical Being/Entity like the Xenomorph were....
Maybe Switch it around... have them as a Biomechanical A.I created by some Ancient A.I, and the Space Jockey Biomechanical Beings then Sub-Created the Engineers who then Rebelled against their Masters and then Sub-Created themselves by creating Mankind, we then Create Androids like David. And he should have been allowed to Create a Biomechanical Race (but not the Xenomorph)... but Alas we got Alien Covenant
I’ve been researching Tolkiens Silmarillion and the hierarchy of the creator god, then his team of universe designing ‘angel’ type beings, then their assistants etc reminded me of the alien franchise and how there could be similarities in the different levels of living beings. With some beings created to create and shape the universe and it’s inhabitants. Along with the potential for these creator beings going rogue and becoming destructive
@CamillaCousins The valar & the maiar, I think. It's been awhile since I've read any of those books but , now that you mention it, there are some aspects of Tolkien's world building that actually do line up with some of what Lovecraft wrote & that Alien & Prometheus hinted at. Prometheus, basically , was a loose adaptation of The Mountains of Madness
It does make more sense as it gets connected.
great video
Thanks!
And sci fi has returned after like 6 months!
This is what I wanted the Whole Time.
Not David's Robot BS. I wanted the Pilot's backstory explained...
Both can fit
Yes, but I want more focus on the Pilot. The android antics needs to a long break... @@tgiacin435
No, I just want to get away from the stale Evil Robots trope. @@CombatUnit621
And not it's "explained" by a cheesy game in a cheesy way, congrats
I finally finished the game last night and I loved it! Fantastic story, incredible environments and a real love for the Alien universe shone throughout the game. This story would of made for a great movie, or even better, a tv series.
As to your point, I see no reason that the Space Jockey/Pilot/Mala'kak/Citizen/Ancient ( This thing has too many names now Lol ) couldn't coexist with the Engineer lore.
I think the game was right to reintroduce the idea of this giant biomec race, and I give them a lot of credit for doing it in the way that Giger intended. They returned to the Giger plan and finally showed us the Giger city.
This game was the a near perfect continuation of the Alien/Aliens story and for me at least serves as my "Aliens 2"
I would dig this because it would kind of call back to the beginning of Prometheus. The movie established that Elizabeth Shaw was religious in a scene where she was asked, how discovering that humans were created by aliens would impact her belief in God. She responded by asking "Well who created them?"
Even though the return of the original Space Jockeys wouldn't validate her beliefs, it would tie the original lore back into the franchise while introducing new questions.
Personally, I think the lack of answered questions feeds the fear of the unknown, which is what the franchise began with and kept all before Prometheus. I think that kind of fear is a big part of what makes this horror franchise, Horror.
I love the idea of retconning the retcon of the Engineers. 😎
Surely the space jockey species is what the engineers use as a bio mechanical suit. The space jockey has evolved to be able to breathe in space. The perfect skin suit.
The fact that Disney owns this IP makes me sick.
The ‘mechanical city’ video game concept is more in line with what I expected/hoped Prometheus to be ie. Landing on some biomechanical world surrounded by all forms of hellish life (a biomechanical Skull Island).
Daaaaaaamn! It's getting complicated! How do the Yutja fit in...?
Geiger ahead of us all..
i respect people that could actual play alien isolation and all the other. i would die of heartattacks ^^
Great, finally they can course correct the franchise, without ruining it and even mantaining the David’s prequel. The cherry on top would be connecting the franchise with the Blade Runner franchise, as the movies hint at each other’s many times. Would be awesome.
Yeah I like this. Hope it's canon. Dark descent is an awesome game. Need to get back on it. Took a break for awhile now I think it's time to return.
How about Ridley saves “raised by wolves”
it's impossible to out-giger giger.
Well, it seems a lot of people hate the Prometheus prequel movies lol. Personally, I liked many of the new ideas for the Engineers: the integrating biomechanical suits, their connection to humans, and their very off-setting appearance. A lot of the design choices around the Engineers were very interesting as well. However, I will fully admit that the story elements of the Engineers is very flawed. Part of this is creative decisions (some by Ridley Scott, many by the studio) that had mixed feelings about it just being in the Alien universe or actually incorporating Aliens into the story. Some of the original drafts (went by Aliens: Engineers) was very simple but effective about combining the old and new. It explained where the Derelict came from and what happened. I don’t have a problem with revealing some of a franchise’s mysteries, but you better make it compelling enough to warrant it.
This was also my approach at tolerating the Scott last two...films. In my version, I had the Space Jockey race (I don't refer to them as Malak'ak because I find the name cringe like 50s ET names, and it was made for the ALIEN RESURRECTION sequel novel ORIGINAL SIN) as creating the Engineers as a drone race made from ancient primitive humans. Essentially eliminating that the Engineers created the humans, as I put nature for both the birth of the human race, Xenomorphs and all the creatures of Space, except those like the Engineers whom are being made to serve. Since the SJs are biomechanical in nature, and have some limits due to their heights, the Engineers would be like worker ants, but in time they revolted against the SJs and not only stole technology but mechanically emulated in design that of the SJs own biomechanical tech (ships, suits, life support) but also stole research, which then presents the Black Goo (Accelerant). This goo was DNA material discovered by the SJs in a very far away dark planet (Picture the SCORN video game) and this planet is the Home world of the ancient Xenomorph race).
The Xenomorphs were in fact a society that was then brought to extinction by a planetary Cataclysm and were only survived by their eggs. This ties perfectly with ALIEN Creator and Writer, the late Dan O'Bannon's origins of the Xenomorphs. And it shows that originally the Xenos were in fact actually an Intelligent society by so alien (strange, unknown) in their ways, reproduction, biology, and essentially shows that all the subsequent Aliens we see are feral because they didn't grow up in their society. They are also biomechanical, though not the same as the SJs, but even when alive in their society they would be hostile to anything not of their race, either seeing everything else as either food or a womb. The SJs get the eggs and experiment with DNA extraction and discover that the Xeno DNA can be weaponized because it alters matter, because the Xeno DNA reproductive drive is in their genes.
The Engineers do not give birth, they are grown by the SJs, and they see the Xeno DNA as a way to allow them to reproduce...stupidly of course, so they revolt against their SJ creators and they start to try and seed other planets with their own DNA mixed with the Xenomorph Accelerant, but are really always unable to reproduce and all they do is create other species and they are dying out as well as the Engineers. As for the Xeno Eggs, the SJs use them for weapons and to cleanse worlds in experiments, discovering the bio compatibility of the Xenos with other species in Space, and like Pandora's Box, it is basically deduced that this race was never meant to be encountered because they are the equivalent of Anti Life, where they are encountered, life gets replaced with them. This becomes a message of Space being a darker, more mysterious and alien place, and that not all knowledge should be looked for. Forbidden Knowledge is forbidden for a reason, and some life should never be contacted or encountered.
That sounded pretty good up until the part about intelligent Xenos, which regardless of O'Bannon's usual genius contributions, I find to be absolute cringe.
@@Chef_Alpo His contributions? Bro, he was the CREATOR of ALIEN. Also intelligent Xenos does not have to subscribe to human behavior. As O'Bannon had noted, they were alien in their ways, meaning that though an obvious civilization could be seen, their ways were "Unknown, incomprehensible to human standards" in essence, alien! What's cringe is saying "o'BaNnoN's cOnTrIbUtIoNs" when the dude was the one that invented the story along with Ron Shusett. That's why I refer to the video game SCORN for reference in a way to explain Alien behavior.
Space Jockeys are the Engineers. Ridley Scott confirmed it. I mean, you can have all the fan theories you want, but in the lore of the films, they are the same species.
@@guruxara7994 Yeah, no. Ridley Scott DIDN'T create ALIEN, he directed it. Dan O'Bannon created, wrote and titled ALIEN. Ridley Scott tried to unsuccessfully make the Space Jockeys into the Lame @$$ Engineers in his two disastrous crappy films. And now since ALIEN belongs to Disney, and they are against Scott's version of the story, hence the recent film that is coming up is not related to his last two, it may be possible that these creatures may indeed be a separate species. And subjectively speaking, it would be better because it allows to expand the ALIEN universe instead of making the "Round the corner" neighborhood where big dumb albino Body Building Humans created life in the freaking universe... So lame, and so NOT ALIEN at all.
But sure, enjoy what you want, we seem to be both ALIEN fans, and we don't have to agree. I respect your preferences, but I adhere to the actual Creator of ALIEN and his ideas, instead of the first movie Director's ideas.
@@EternalRoman So if Dan O'Bannon said that the Space Jockeys are the Engineers you would be ok with that? In my opinion, a bunch of "space elephants" walking around would be even worse, I like the idea that the space suit itself makes the creature look like something unusual, it's the exact reaction that a person from 2 thousand years ago would have if they saw a modern F-35 pilot in his suit.
Thank you for at least acknowledgement of the idea of David creating a variation of the Xenomorph not the original creature.
Plus there's a third kind of species exist which is Drukathi or Dog-people from the Alien Out of the Shadows and Alien Sea of Sorrows and Rage War novels.
Yes, it could be saved. I think they have to start with explaining what happened to the space jockey how he got contaminated, crash the ship and died and concentrate on the engineers in the future movie. Just having a mindless alien running around bleeding acid I think maybe not the way to go entirely
This character is better left unexplained. The mystery is what makes it work.
Hard Disagree. I really only go with that kind of narrative in Lovecraft's mythos.
My preferred canon:
- space jockeys are a largely peaceful and benevolent spacefaring elephant-like species
- they are however, ALIEN. They don't speak human; they don't think human. Meeting them is horrifying not because you're in danger but because it's strange and eerie, you don't know what they say or think or will do next. It's like being face to face with a big animal, but an animal that's smarter than you and has more advanced society and tech than you.
- If you had to describe their personality it's: slow, strangely sad, yet unflinching (stuff that evokes strong disgust in humans is normal to them, yet sometimes they react with fear for no reason; their emotional make-up is alien)
- their tech is biomechanical, everything plugs or fuses into a body and they use dead Jockey bodies as parts for engineering.
- so many ppl forget the 1st film so let's repeat: 1. the Jockey was sending an SOS signal and died from a chestburster which then laid eggs on its ship. Evidence is that it suffered the same fate as the humans. Not that it's a xenomorph progenitor race or similar 2. it was a skeleton; probably doesn't look like one in its alive state
I want a space jockey / aliens vs predator movie!
In the novel from the Alien, Ash stated the derelict crew found the xenos eggs on a distant planet
There's a lot of great artists that have contributed many interesting things to the franchise over the years. But I'm just one of those people that sees the main movies as the only canon any ideas that came from Dan O Banon, Ridley and H.R. Giger. I really wanted that Covenant sequel to wrap things up with David and the Engineers once and for all. The franchise should continue but it needs to move forward in the timeline with the Xenomorphs. And we need a new H.R. Giger of today that can bring something really new and never seen before to the table. And to cross them over with the Predators again. To me Alien is about that shock value that the original had in 79, And that Prometheus had atleast for me in 2012 aswell and to keep the fear and mystery of the deepest parts of space going
if we were to ever get a fully fleshed out origin/lore of the jockey/engineers, the alien would have to take a back seat, it wouldn't be the main focus but play a crucial part of the story.
I mean super easy fix, they just make it where the engineers are the ‘chosen’ race the mala’kak has created to continue their work, hence why such similarities and that the engineers could have even deified them to some extent
I believe the "space jockeys" are the ancestors to the elephant and are simply searching the cosmos for the most precious peanut.
Like Farscape ..Pilot was the 2nd pilot grafted to living space ship Moira...hmm
Prometheus is a masterpiece
I thought the pilot seat was a stasis pod that was just designed to allow them to Pilot the ship while in stasis
I had the impression that the space jockys and the one engineer the team meet may have been the engineers version of the androids humans were building.
They could just go the route of Pam's dream on Dallas...just rewind to the end of Aliens and start over. You're welcome.
I say bring back the elephantine engineers. Once Scott humanized them, he lost me. He made the universe pragmatic and small, when its not.
I have loved your Alpha and Engineer Origin theory videos, and used them to visualze the theory, would love to work with one an Alien Project, I am very interested in the Female Human Hybrid Xenomorph, if you can do a theory on her, will be amazing, there is very few to little info on her, your view about her would be great, for this video, I am all for more Alien sontent from movies,.
Wish this theory came to life in movies not just in games and fan fiction.
Look at the first alien comic. It was a great story and the navigators were terrifying and mysterious. Look at Prometheus and it wasnt all bad but it is more like, lets make them look like us human beings.
personally I believe that the engineers created both the space jockeys and the "citizens" of the xeno city using the pathogen in order to perform different roles in their society, or they could both be natural mutations from Lethe and wherever the space jockey form LV-426 came from, but then again anything is possible.
That's definitely the direction I believe Ridley wanted to go in. I just talked to somebody about this. We don't know know enough about the pathogen to assume that it's not sophisticated enough to be used in that way . I believe that's what Dan O'Bannon was going for as well. what you're describing is almost exactly what the Tleilaxians are supposed to have done in God Emperor of Dune. They reached a level of sophistication where it was possible & more efficient for them .
The back story of what the space jockey was/is should never have been made into movies because it takes away the mystery/horror of the one they discovered in Alien, i would like to think that this creature existed in the dark ages of our galaxy and died out before human civilization, it's best sometimes to keep things unknown and unexplained, usually the explanations for such mysterious Alien creatures are unsatisfactory, keep it ambiguous it's more terrifying that way.
Interesting take but i don't think the studio will use this at all in their Alien movies. they will most likely choose to stay away from exploring the "Space Jockey" in any way now for a while; purely for being wary whatever other direction could also be rejected overall by fans, but most likely could confuse the audience in general.
Alltho I think the prequel movies dont even diserve a smither of the hate they get I think something like this would be nessesary to make the fanbase at large happy again.
I love the series but man they literally have 13.6 bilion years of space existence you have the cleanest slate possible
You know what, here’s the thing . As much as I liked the 3ard and fourth films. Ignore everything after aliens . There was a alternative version of the third that would have played out more.
Are they making another movie?
what if the space jockey is the engineer version of A.I./synthetics inspired by the Walter model found on planet 4? the engineers finally discover what David did to the planet, finding Walter either still functioning or inactive due to injury caused by David or they simply catch up to David and disassemble him instead.
@Sagelnk That's not a bad theory. The obvious extension to that line of thinking would be if David himself was the space Jockey. He handled the pathogen in Prometheus when he had it on his finger . We dont know enough about the pathogen to assume that it wasnt sophisticated enough to alter or change David ( or he could have done something to himself )to a point where he became a viable host. We know that the xeno replicates its host DNA so that , to a lesser or greater degree , the alien will be a xenomoroh version of its host. We know the original alien seemed to be , in part, a type of construct. What if somehow David became a viable host & the resulting xenomorph was ...partly a construct . Like David.
@@johnohara3683 I've heard of that theory- David being the jockey on lv426, I honestly don't care for it much, it's out of character since he already thinks he's perfect, he wouldn't need to modify himself, he had plenty of alone time in between Prometheus & covenant to do so, he believes in creation & perfecting his creations as seen with neomorphs & protomorphs
The "engineers" was really an uninspired, "been done already", "this sounds very similar to the sci-fi short stories I read 15 years ago" idea.
Regarding the Video... and could having introduce the Space Jockey as another Species.. then YES this could be done.
It would require they introduce something at least 10ft Tall. But also i would go for either.
(a) A Space Suit with a not so Human looking occupants.
(b) A Biomechanical Being like the Xenomorph are... thus a Exoskeleton of sorts... the Snorkel is a Problem but this could be a Breathing Apparatus that attaches to the Space Jockey.
The Xenomorph would be a problem though... Conflict with Alien Covenant, UNLESS you have it that the Space Jockey takes Davids Eggs from Planet 4 and they Evolve and Mass Produce them on LV-223.
You then have in the Plot that LV-223 is Destroyed which causes a temporary tear in time/space... but a Ship escaped LV-223 and got pulled into the anomaly taking it back Thousands of Years and landing on LV-426
Might be nice if the original script by O'Bannon was considered.
Seems like a lot of ideas came from planet of the vampires and that dune book that was passed around a art book .
I wish they would also get rid of the queen and let the aliens reproduce as they did in the first movie, by turning people into eggs. This would be far more horrifying.
The Jockey actually points to serious flaws in the franchise.
The Jockey is considerably larger than a human, the trunk is also blocking the oral orifice.
The face hugger has limbs that fit exactly over a smaller human skull, somehow produces oxygen to keep humans alive during impregnation, are smart enough to realize that helmets aren't faces and are able to burn only the visors.
By design the face hugger shouldn't be able to cover the face of anything other than humans or humanoids with similar anatomy.
Yes that’s assuming he was attacked by a normal facehugger though. There’s been numerous types of them in the expanded universe for years. I wonder what actually did attack him because I’d assume only Giger would know
You have a point, but the hugggers proboscis does have the ability to stretch, and on human anatomy the legs are long enough to wrap around the head, but that is not to say they aren't versatile in the manner they attach.
Without being too much of a speculative fanboy, I don't think it's unreasonable to assume that the hugger could secure itself around more than enough of the facial opening and extend the proboscis into the mouth, so rather than the full head mask they become for a human it becomes like a surgeons mask over the Jockey's mouth. We do know that the huggers also "superglue" themselves to the host's face so that would also help.
a specially tailored facehugger for a space-jockey....like the big octopus that got the engineer....
perhaps it latched onto another orifice that fed blood or something to the pilot....
Too bad they didnt dive more into enginner humanoids lore in alien awakening
All this gets so confusing with every body trying to explain everything. All I know is is I’m pretty sure David orchestrated the one “Alien”, movie. He set the whole thing up to spread the seed of his creation.
How come the engineers didn’t have there own robots?
why would you think a game developer would have any attachment to content being created in another production?
They should probably drop the Androids. In the games, there were android scientist and armed android trooper squads. So realistically, the Colonial Marines should be out of a job.
Ehh... I feel Ridley Scott needed to revise the whole "Space jokey" thing because REALISTICALLY he wanted a practical effects perfomance and not CGi or huge puppetry and the fact that it is not always easy to find a muscular male that is tall enough to portray the role so in the end Prometheus makes logical sense unless you were another blood thirsty Alien/s fan just wanting another space slasher flick which ironically was what the whiners back in 2012 were whining about as their excuse to refuse to see the picture.
I also feel that Scott further revised the idea of the engineer engaging in conversation with the human made android as a translator to the humans because there was no way in hell that an ultra advanced alien species would see humans as anything but lower lifeforms or how humans see other animals.
As such if that original concept for Space Jockey was to be made for film then some camera trickery or full CGi would be required just to portray the characters.
NO CGI is needed, a simple forced perspective would have worked (shooting aliens closer to the camera to make them appear huge). Scott never got the biomechanical nature. If you notice, even the xenomorphs in his last movie look like B-movie monsters with ZERO biomechanical parts. The original Alien suit really looked like a human fused with a space suit.
How is it a "pilot" when it's sat behind a ruddy great gun? Or was his day job a "pilot" and he was moonlighting as a gunner?
What's the timeline between the Engineer ship crash on LV426 and it's discovery by the Nostromo crew? It looks more like calcification than some sort of bio-mech entity. Given the high humidity (hotter than hell according to Kane) and the aliens resin depositing prowess, that's way more likely.
Sorry, I don't get this theory at all. What is depicted doesn't match the explanation.
Space Jockey Space Jockey laying all alone...
Rotting in a space chair, down to the bone.
Space Jockey Space Jockey nothing more to sing...
Gave birth to a Space Alien Xenomorph... thing.
I have been quite upset at the way Ridley re-wrote the universe he started. In my interpretation of events, he wanted to explore this other high sci-fi idea of mankind looking for its' possible creators, but he couldn't get funding unless he linked it to the Alien franchise. However, I like the possibility of blending ideas to repair the timelines and move on to exciting stories and movies that are fun to watch. Just my 2 cents.
He never wrote it in the first place. He was just the guy that helped lead it to its artistic direction we see today with Hr giger
When the 2nd pilot was shown in Prometeus everybody was upset there was a size difference between the pilot. But they are biomechanical engineers. They will grow them to size as needed.
Engineers aren't biomechanical. They're just big white humans like shown in the first scene.
@@ryokodeivisu but the engineer from the last part of the movies suit kind of melds into his flesh suggesting hes biomechanical
@@poohbear4821 they're not biomechanical. Not yet they werent. The biomechanical entity from the derelict known as the space jockey was a part of that ship & the ship was a part of him. After the jockey is dead the ship died as well. The jockeys tech reached a point where , probably in a bid for immortality ( Because ALIEN has always been about death ) they were supposed to have somehow merged the inorganic with the organic . Not a cyborg but much , much more sophisticated & scarier than that. Then they started evolving down highly specialized paths to fulfill highly specialized roles. Some of the engineers might have been taking their first steps at emulating a superior form of life . The space jockey.
TBH I prefer the mystery and find any explanations to be unfulfilling and prosaic. I don't want someone to try and explain what the craft in Alien is or the possible entity referred to as the space jockey. This is mostly because of the failure of human explanatory powers when confronted with the unknown. All humans can do is draw from their experience and extrapolate the meaning of something unknown through analogy. But this very process negates the possibility of something being truly alien to us, and consequently breaks down the horror of the truly unknown, and indeed, the unknowable. Anyway, I'm starting to ramble a bit. My point is that any explanation will be by it's nature unfulfilling, so I personally prefer it to remain a mystery.
Type 91 torpedo
Is any of this cannon?
I'm glad I'm not the only one who thought that Ridley Scott was taking things in the wrong direction.
I read alien genicide and they go too the home world of the aliens with the space marines and there is a war between the black and red aliens.
Ridley Scott just messed it up. No need to integrate the engineers. Prometheus didn't happen.
In short, Geiger was just a far more skilled sculptor
I'm all the way on board with fixing the whole design and flavor issue with Ridley's stupid "they're just humans" retcon. What I don't think needs to be done - or really should be done - is any further retcons or treating the two like they're completely separate. The Engineers and Space Jockies share WAY too much aesthetic and technological similarities to be a simple matter of being inspired. AvP has the Predators inspire humans ala Chariots of the Gods, and even our pyramids look far different from anything they ever created, so why the hell would a Jockey pilot look almost exactly an Engineer pilot?
Clearly these are all parts of the same massive civilization. Engineers already have access to this xeno-goo, so it's entirely possible they have other forms of biomechanical tech, too, up to and including pilots and citizens. Something important to keep in mind is that this is a very old civilization with a mind bogglingly vast territory, existing on multiple star systems. We tend to take for granted that as long as you have FTL drives, interstellar civilizations will be roughly contemporaneous with each other from system to system, and maybe on a human scale of a couple hundred years I can buy that. But the pilot is over 2,000 years old, as are the Engineers we meet on LV-223, and the script for Prometheus suggests they've been around for BILLIONS of years. BILLIONS. The entirety of human civilization is less than 20,000 years old, and as a genus we've only been around for the last couple million years. Ridley Scott did talk about this idea of "dark angels" and kind of eluded to a civil war of sorts within the Engineers, and the species we meet on Planet 4 look nothing like the others. Planet 4 also had remains of the xenomorph from LV-426, according to the novel, while the Engineers from LV-223 seemed to venerate the deacons, which is a weird offshoot you can only make with humans involved.
Point is, the universe is a big place, and Engineers are weird enigmas with unclear motivations and strange technologies, they are definitely divided racially, technologically, and ideologically. To suggest that you need a completely separate civilization to explain aesthetic similarities with explicit biomechanoids seems pointless to me. If there are Engineers out there who are comfortable using aliens as weapons, then surely there are ones comfortable with growing living people-machines to pilot ships or w/e else.
I always ignored Alien universe. For me only the first was the thing. The Space Jockey was just meant to scare me as something unexplainable, materializing from Giger's vision as an unreal vision. Trying to make it all sci-fi and rational always killed it all for me.