How to Go Low on a 4-string Bass
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 26 ก.ค. 2024
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🔵 Website: garyhiebner.com
Check how to go low on a 4-string bass. Jump to 4:18 for the full play through with the Bass in Drop A#
In this video I show you how I took an Ibanez BTB200 4-string bass, chucked some heavy guage strings on and tuned it down to Drop A#. Plus, I cover the bass processing I used to get the dirty bass tone.
0:00 - Welcome
0:42 - The Bass I found
1:20 - Virtual Bass vs Real Bass
2:30 - The Setup on the Bass
2:41 - Strings Used
4:17 - Full Playthrough with Bass in Mix
5:50 - The Bass Processing Chain in my DAW
7:26 - Thanks for Watching!
Guitar: Ibanez BTB200 4-string Bass
Tuning: Drop A#
Amp Sim: STL AmpHub
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I’ve been doing B E A D on all my bass’s for about 30 years.
Before I first tried it I asked a luthier about doing it and he said it was impossible to do such a thing on a 4 string bass and it would put to much tension on the neck and destroy the bass.
After getting that advice/opinion from that luthier I went right home and filed my nut a bit wider and installed the BEAD strings.
Obviously that luthier and others that told me it couldn’t be done were wrong, but 30 years ago doing BEAD on a bass was kinda unheard of, I came up with the idea because I hated the string spacing on my 5 string bass and actually had never heard of anyone else doing it either.
The best thing about doing BEAD besides having the low B is other bass players never ask to use my bass’s when they want to sit-in on one of my gigs (lol)
Cheers, Davyo
Yeah I think its a misunderstanding on string gauges and string tension. If you get a thick gauge and have the same tension as say you would have on E1, then its not putting any extra tension on the neck....well at least to my understanding of it.
I played a 4 string at BEAD for a few years but recently found I prefer the 5 string spacing.
BEAD 4 string is definitely possible and not all that uncommon, especially in doom metal
That luthier is a loon, then. Lower strings typically have lower tension than the higher strings. Don't believe me? Which strings on your bass are easier to bend? The high ones or the low ones?
I turned on to BEAD 3 years ago and I’m hooked. I play Dub Reggae and i never used the G string anyway
@@rabidwallaby84 That isn't true. Heavier gauge strings will always have more tension than lighter gauge strings. Buy a heavier set of bass guitar strings and put them on, tune it, wait awhile and then check your relief. You will find that you probably have more than you did before. That is because the strings are putting more tension on the neck and pulling it forward. You will more than likely need to adjust your truss rod a bit after putting on thicker gauge strings.
I use the Roto Sound Drop Zone .065-.130 on my Fender PBass tuned A0
Isn‘t it too light for a low a?
@@user-kn1ju6tz2l My .135 hold well all the way down to gG0 pretty well.
@@joaopedrobossle6931 ok interesting. Just beford i discovered this video i installed a 145 set for drop a. Works great so far
Nice and chunky! I'm loving it man, keep it up!
such a great an explanation, mate!!
Great job! So usefull. Thx!
Loved this video. just found you by sheer accident, but I'm glad i did. This is super helpful and finally I can stop fighting with my 5 string bass and go back to using my 4 string for lower tunings. You sir, are a life saver. don't stop what you're doing, your videos are awesome !!!!
Thanks for the comment! Glad you enjoyed the video :)
Sounds great! Thanks for sharing your bass mix settings as well!
Thanks Cos Man
About every 4 string I ever owned I tuned it to B E A D at least once for each since 2013. It was something that I thought was weird at first w/ out a G string after acquiring my first 5 string in high school. By this point now I have two main 4 & 5 string basses set in B standard to get me ready for any situation.
Yeah I really like the thinner neck on a 4 string. But still being able to go low with thicker string gauges
@@GaryHiebner 4 strings set in B Standard is fairly normal being in the music scene (specifically metal) for a few years. It's actually rare to see bassists in other genres to use that tuning on a normal bass but I've watched some on TH-cam do it. Very few, though it puts a smile on my face when someone does
I tune my 5 strings to A&B
And my 4 strings to G&A. Sounds odd. Till you hear them.
love the videos gary, thanks for great detailed info your vids were in my suggested but am now subbed awesome work bro all the best to you
Awesome! Glad you enjoy the videos
Great info brother and sick track you e written, deep and melodic!!
You can tune any guitar or bass to whatever you want you just have to consider the string gauges and truss rod tension, kick ass info dude thanks for making a video on this!
Yes that's true. Scale length also plays a role. Because the longer scale helps the guitar or bass intonation better higher up the neck.
@@GaryHiebner I played a Fender P bass in a death core band years ago I believe it was a long 34" Drop B (can't remember what gauges I used) loved the way is sounded. I see what you're saying about the scale I just haven't fully experimented on it myself much. Definitely going to let my bass player know as I'm a guitar player these days and my scales are super short :)
I had a 35 inch bass and took it down to about G#1. When tried to go lower the sound got a bit flabby. Then got a 37 inch conversion neck for my bass. And now have that down to F1 with a 170 gauge and it works great. So yeah if you go too low for a scale and go too thick with the strings your tone can get a bit muddy. So its a balancing act between the scale length and string gauge.
The song you played the demo was great! Cool video, Gary.
Thanks!
That was cool, sounds good. Definitely an underappreciated topic that doesn't receive as much attention as it could.
Thanks, appreciate the comment
There’s also an A# tuned in fifths, called an A# Cajun tuning: A#, F, C & G.
very proffesional... greetings from Peru
Hell yeah!
IMO, I think you would have been fine with a .130 or a .135 for the A#. I've typically used a .125 for a low B on a 35" scale, and the note is tight and clear.
Thanks for the feedback. I personally like tighter tension especially when going llwer. I find if the string is too loose it also looses note clarity. But also having some brighter strings also helps :)
Good informative vid. To the point. Great comment section too. I needed some info. Sick o my 5 string. Thank you all!
Yeah man. 4 string necks feel so good.
@@GaryHiebner just never knew how to get rid of that flubbery sound n feel on the low E
I’d love for you to go down to at least a low G, a drop G, or even a low G tuned in fifths, like a violin or a mandolin.
thnx)
Main is guitar since I was 11 but wanted a bass to play and record with. Purchased a Fender Mustang. I would recommend this to use when 3,4,5x tracking. It is smaller; and puts out a higher register that’s INSANELY clean. Just burry it way under your drop and it will really make the bass cut through.
I wanted a real bass. and really wanted the Ergodyne. Found it clearances back in 2010. Was still $1k clearance back then! 😳 It’s the newer model to want you have. Love this thing! Plays so effortlessly. Thanks for the vid.
I use a 145 too! I bought the tapered end so both Ends are tapered which makes a set up like nothing. Wish these basses would show up more. chevelle bassist loves these basses the 35 scale neck is a huge win it just feels right.
Tapered both sides makes a lot of sense
Sound pretty good 👍
Thanks for the setup on the bass guitar Artur. Feels way better than those rusty old strings that were on it before, haha!
@@GaryHiebner the old ones lost the privilege of being called strings some time in a last century 🤣🤣
🤣🤣🤣
Wow
Dude, I almost use the same string setup on a 34" bass for Drop G#! Here in Germany/Europe you can save some money by using Warwick strings for the 3 high ones and the D'addario for the low one. I don't think they ship to south africa but maybe give them a go. The tension is a lot lower with the normal scale length but still playable if you can adapt your playing style.
I was looking for a 35" or fanned fret bass for some time but they are so ugly. Especially the BTB ones. As a studio instrument its fine but I don't want to be seen playing one live (if it would be relevant right now) :D
Got it done on a 32 inch scale. Using a .165 gauge for that G#. Had to modify that string, though.
@@The_Nameless_1 okay it's getting ridiculous now. .165?! But it probably doesn't sound that bright with that thick boy, right?
Very cool video!
I use Circle-K (Kalium these days,) starting with a monster .254 (a hair wider than the flats of a pencil!) The goal is insane C0 Standard tuning starting at 16.35Hz with the tension at 35 foot pounds, technically making my strings ultra-lights.
I'm waiting on a Quake with a 39.55" scale length. My abnormally low tuning will sound more natural with smaller (and longer) strings. Can't wait to explore the harmonics on that beast!
254! That is crazy! On what scale length bass?
I've done 170 on a 37 inch. Can't even imagine a 254!
It's a 34" 1980 Ibanez Roadster--built like a tank and pretty heavy. It was the next-best thing to a five-stringer which I didn't have $1200+ for back then. I took it home with the heaviest Ken Smith set, put on the bottom four strings, and tuned it to A-D-G-C. By 2010, I found Circle-K and took a chance on making it a sub-bass. Half of the joy is seeing what other people do with it--it's a very different instrument.
The Quake will have the same tuning and tension. The bottom string can be a .222 instead.
Here currently playing my 35 inch 5 string with .150 string tuned to G0
I keep my 2 main basses in A0 and G#0 (Mostly for Tallah covers). It's a custom 35 inch 5 string and I run a 150 set, but for anything lower, I have a 4 string bass in F#0 and sometimes Drop E0, and it;s a 38 inch scale fretless. The clarity difference between a 34 inch and a 35 bass with a 150 is huge, and everything else on them is identical specs, and i would know, i bould them all. identical construction, 5 piece maple, walnut necks, ash and walnut bodies, same exact G5 pickups, same brand of strings. same for the giant fretless but being a fretless bass if anything you;d expect LESS clarity, and it;s clear as a bell down to F0 and still audible in E0. I have tried D0 but it sounds like whale farts, so i think we're just pushing the limit of human hearing rather than the instrument. it;s still playable tight in D with the 185.
Bro thats so fucking cool. I think you should try (if u havent already) to get some reaally powerful subwoofers and try to feel the notes with the body. Sounds kinda silly but I think it woukd work.
DR DDTs... medium or heavy gauge for tuning a whole step down
Excellent instructional video. I want to ask, what are the tone settings on the bass itself? I like a bit more clarity in my bass tone, but of course, I can adjust accordingly. Not to say I don't like YOUR tone. I do. I just like for the guitar to wrap around the bass in my style. Thanks.
I have the tone all the way up. And then with the pickup blend selector its all the way to the bridge. So I javent blended it with the neck pickup. So pretty straight forward.
@@GaryHiebner Great. Thanks for the fast reply. Keep jammin bro.
Careful with the strings you buy. When I went from EADG to BEAD on my bass, I had D'addario NYXLs on, and thought I could just buy a single matching .130 NYXL. Unfortunately, that proved to be a "super long scale" - and I couldn't install it on my 35" bass, it was too thick when it got to the tuning machine! I ended up buying a Harley Benton HQS stainless 5-string set, using only the "bottom" .130 to .065. Even though they are crazy cheap, they're really nice strings!
Good point. Yeah I went with the Long Scales XLs. And most recently I had to go with the Super Long Scale XLs for my BTB 37inch bass conversion neck.
bass moment
You say you beefed up the bass for the playthrough. To me it sounds perfect like that, any lower and it would be barely audible. Also, check out D'Addario ProSteels or DR Lo-Riders, both have a 130 B string and are stable down to A standard on a 35" bass
Thanks so much. Will check out those strings. Don't know if you've seen my latest video but I got a bass conversion neck so its now a 35-37 inch and is tuned down to F0. th-cam.com/video/wprcEqDtaPA/w-d-xo.html
So stoked I found this and that you're South African! I've been calling every store in Cape Town to find the exact 145 string you're using and noone has it. Please give me a lead on where you found it in SA?
I get strings that I can't find in SA from Amazon. You the Brandon from Crossing Point? I recognize your profile picture. I used to be in Jimmy 12 Inch. Good ole 2000s Durbs Music days.
@@GaryHiebner No way! I thought I recognised you! I've been doing @stragenoise since 2012. Instrumental sludge. Went on hiatus when I moved to CT a few years back but now getting things back together.
I went down a rabbit hole of all your videos this morning. Really nice work!
Awesome. Checking out some of your stuff now. I spot an MMM1! What you tuning down to? I used to have an MMM1 and took it down to F1. Great guitar. I also moved down to the Western Cape from Durbs.
@@GaryHiebner I tune to drop A. The MMM1 is great but I actually prefer the feel of an old pawn shop standard length guitar I have in that tuning. But the MMM1 is more reliable. I also still have the SZ2020 prestige I used to use in Crossingpoint and a Peavey T60 which is also amazing in A
Thats awesome! Those SZ2020's are amazing. I know a guy that has chucked on a set of 20-90s and has tuned his SZ2020 to Drop E. And it works.
we really should do a colab jam, just a fun short instrumental or something!
I'm down with that. Hit me up.
Thanks for the vid, helpful! You think I can use a 34in bass for drop C tuning, with a B string?
Yeah that will work. Maybe try a slightly lighter 5th string, like a 128.
Oh awesome, thanks for your help@@GaryHiebner
I want to tune my standard length fender jazz down to BADG (pretty extreme, I know xD). Right now i'm using a standard .45-105 set, any advice what I could do to balance things out and get the B string to sound a bit more defined / less muddy? Just a thicker B string should be enough yeah?
Yeah I'd say you need a thicker string on the low string. So maybe get a 5 string Bass set and chuck the 4th string. So 130-85-65-45. Something similiar to that.
I was going to do this, but my Ibanez SR series 5 string necks are pretty narrow as is.
Worried it will put too much tension on the neck?
Hey man where can I download this sick demo 🤘
Its still a work in progress. When its finally finished will mention where to grab it.
Are there any alternatives to having the bass modified to fit the thicker strings? Like any specific type of rubber strings and such that have a standard thickness but a good tension to fit a BEAD tuning? I am looking for a good option for BEAD on a 4 String for ages. Thanks in advance!
You could use tapered strings by the bridge so they fit in the bridges saddles. And you might need to file down the nut to fit the thicker strings. But this is quite an easy modification.
@@GaryHiebner Thanks for the quick reply!
I need to set my bass in Drop A (A E A D), but i had some problems with the gauges (my bass is an SR300E - 34"), Which string gauges are recommended for my case?
You could try 145,105,80,60. If you want more tension then maybe beef it up. Like 155, 110,90 70. And also check what type of bridge you have. You might need to get a tapered low string
I need to know which models of extended scale (35 inches or maybe more) i can obtain around the $500, like that ibanez, or maybe a little bit mor expensive
You could try the RedSub Colesium Fanned Frets basses from Gear4Music. They are 36.5 on the long scale.
I just started playing a 4 string hofner bass. Is there a sound or key that sounds best to tune it too?
What's the scale length?
can you tune the .145 gauge string back up to E1 when you need or is it too much tension ???
Unfortunately not. Definitely will be too much tension
B A S S
i probably need to adjust truss rod too
If the neck is too bowed you might need to adjust the trusses. Check the action and see if you need to do a trusted adjustment. I got my bass uswd and the neck was pretty straight. And even after putting on the thicker strings it didn't put too much tension on the neck so didn't cause any extra bowing.
I currently have my 5-string setup with a 45-130 gauge but I definitely want to see if I can reach a low F comfortably for a lot of the stuff I play without having to break the bank for a Dingwall (yet) and without sacrificing sound quality. Would I also have to buy the single 145 string and see a luthier or would something not as thick do the trick like a 50-135 gauge range?
What scale length is your bass. Unfortunately if you wanna go to a low F you really need a longer scale. I got a 170 on a 37 inch bass in F. And that seems like the best having the longer scale and thick gauge. I don't a 145 on a shorter bass will handle F. You could maybe get down to G with a 165 or so.
@@GaryHiebner Scale length is 34. Surprisingly it can hit the low G with no issue with the 130. But anything after that may seem a bit to floppy. Not much, but I definitely want to minimize that as much as possible
So , it's okay to tune my E A D G to B E A D ? Nice
Yeah exactly. Perfectly fine with the right string gauges.
Hi Gary.
What about the levels of the strings? I mean - isn't the E string louder than the rest? Or it's not an issue at all?
Thanks.
No the loudness of the strings didn't change. Just the thicker strings have a slightly darker tone to the thinner strings
Thanks @@GaryHiebner!
Against all the evil that hell can conjure, all the wickedness that mankind can produce, we will send unto them... only you.
Rip and tear!
Try using a GhS...BEAD set
Yeah I should try GHS sometime. Heard good things about their strings
I tried AEAD on 32" scale length (yes, I know I challenge myself too much) using .145, .105, .085 and .065 gauges. Strangely the .145 in A just goes "brrrr" with the low tension. Tuned up to a B or a C it starts to sound better, but even then it is still muddy and "wooden", muffled. With a .165 it's tighter but sounds even more muffled. Tuning the .105 down to an A sounds surprisingly decent, but practically unplayable at speed. Then a .130 is worst of both worlds for A.
What am I doing wrong? Can it be that the scale to gauge ratio just makes it all too rigid to work with large strings?
Yeah I think your biggest challenge is the scale length. Thicker strings will sound darker. Where thinner strings will sound brighter. Thats why the 100 will sound brighter and only playable if you play very soft. If you start playing hard the string will be too floppy. So you sort of need to find a common ground between string tension and how dark or bright the string sounds. Also different string brands can give different results. So maybe also try some other strings. I was very happy with the D'Addario XL strings.
@@GaryHiebner
Thank you! I was already using D'Addario XLs. Your reply gave me an idea, I did some calculations:
The scale to gauge ratio on your setup:
35/.145 = 241
On a 32 to have a similar ratio (about 246) the nearest match would be a .130 gauge string. But that was too lose already, too.
I came up with what I call the "tension factor" to describe the tightness of the string (a sort of tension calculation, can be used for comparison when all else assumed equal).
Your setup:
.145^2 x 35 x 27.5hz = 20.23
To have the same "tension factor" my .130 on a 32 scale would have to go up to 37.42hz. That is a bit over 5 semitones higher than that 27.5Hz A0. So a D1.
Conclusion: if my assumptions are correct, then either I have to get the same scale length that you have with the same gauge strings, as having any different will give me either floppiness or a too dark sound or both, or I will have to tune up to drop D.
I tested the .130 on this 32" scale in D. It was pretty nice. It's a consolation I can take. I hope fellow bassists will learn from this.
No, you will need to go thicker. Short scale lengths need thicker strings for better tension. So if I'm using a 145 for A on a 35 inch. You'll probably need like a 155 for a similar A on your 32 inch. Thats just a very quick rough guess. But try some of the string online tension calculators to figure it out.
@@GaryHiebner You are right, that's how the tension would be there, but I wonder how dark it would sound. The .165 was really very dark, but possibly inbetween at around .155 or .160 it might just work. Also it might be just the strings themselves, these big ones are not really fresh.
Update: I put on the 165 A, swapped the 105 for a 120, now it's all equally dark sounding, put the EQ aside, put an overdrive on with no gain and full tone, it ended up surprisingly good. About as clanky as I wanted it. You kind of lead me there! Thanks!
Update 6 months on:
The tension is dangerous to the neck of this ancient trussrodless thing. Had to go in the other direction, a lot smaller gauges, lower tension, and a lot of adjustment to my technique to cope with the floppiness.
Isn't the 107 too think for the F string?
I like a little bit of extra tension so it feels good to me. Bit it could of been 100.
@@GaryHiebner By the way how does the 145 compare in tension to the 107? Because I wrote to D'addario and they recommended a 160 for A#, wich seems a bit too thick I think.
When you say tune down do you mean BEAD or say BF#BE?
In this video I tuned down to A#-F-A#-D#.
Oh wow I did not expect a reply 😊. Thanks a lot for clarifying mate, I've been feeling like a crazy person because every bass forum I asked for clarification on bass drop tuning everybody says I am a lunatic and I should just stick to BEAD haha but for me as a guitar player is easier to tune like the guitar. Great content mate, thank you for inspiring us!
I tune differently on bass all the time. I'm exactly like you. I tune my guitars differently. And then I tune the bass to match my guitars but an octave lower. Or whatever is easier to play the bass parts. There's no rules. As long as the bass and guitars are in tune. Hahah!
A four string bass can hold and keep that low tunings????
Yip it can with the right string gauge tension
I have that same bass, did the low tunning, bridge bended. Had to find a better bridge. Ibanez bridges suck.
Hectic. Sorry man
Thats weird with the bridge. Cos I've put some even thicker strings on the guitar and it handles. Stay tuned for a new video showing going even lower on this bass
Ibanez suck at all i had a 5 strings 9 years ago and it broke some tuners
E1M1 inspired? :D
Haha!
Shit… F*** You got the like the sub, what more do you want? My soul?
Yes please. Send me your soul ;)
_hands_ @GaryHiebner _his soul_
Sick video!!!!! I have a 34" Ibanez SR405EQM 5 string that I keep a 125-40 gauge set on, normally keep it in A standard/drop G... i definitely want to go thicker haha, maybe a 165 on the lowest string, my 4 string is where it gets interesting, its a 34" Rogue LX200B PJ bass... I ordered custom Newtone strings gauges
0.067
0.094
0.130
0.200
For drop D an octave down, D0 A0 D1 G1, I had to drill out the bridge for the lowest string to get it to fit, thankfully I ordered tapered strings so intonation was a breeze... it barely fit in the tuners but it somehow did without issues. Keep up the great work!
Wow! 200 on a 34 inch!
@GaryHiebner yep!!!!! I was inspired by my favorite band, Admiral Angry. They did the same thing on the bass end for their albums Albania and Grindcore Terrorists, expect they used a 180 gauge low D0 string. I wanted it a bit tighter so I went with a 200 :)
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