@@bb_lou exactly, it's about stalling being genuinely heartbreaking to deal with. I respect puff players like I respect iceys but ledgecamping rules should get reevaluated. should be like a catch all "30 seconds of it = a strike, three strikes and your out". This isn't ban worthy like wobbling, but its damn close.
I've heard you treat some of your mates pretty badly too Simple, we all have our L moments. At least his in a major tournament with a lot on the line, not just because he's inherently a knob
hbox is so good but yes its annoying that puff can be easier than other characters to play and when ur competing at that level it really sucks to see your hard work get beat by that playstyle
His stock value was so high after that great set against Mango and then it dipped after this, plummeted after the counter pop off thing he did. That fox is sick as fuck though
I mean, if a rule is there and it would give you a win, wouldn’t you try and use the rule? It’s lame as shit but hey I’ll take that any day if I get a win out of it.
@@limitedbom2206 I don’t blame him for trying to use the rule it’s the fact that he’s such a sore loser about it. I completely get going by the rules and I agree it’s poorly defined. It just rubs me the wrong way how he handled it and his demeanor. He’s one of our best and behaving that way sets a super poor example.
I thought the ledgegrab limit only applies when games actually go to time, which none of their games did. That's how it was for brawl tournaments, and how it used to be for melee. Did they change it recently? If not, it's really amazing that no one remembered that aspect ofbthe rule.
@@billwoods7578 That tournament is playing with jank rules then, the entire rule book should’ve been re-read cuz who knows what other oddities they might have then.
Someone on a different video answered this for me. Apparently at goml it applies in real time, not just when the match goes to time. Also the limit was reduced to 60 instead of 80
Cody is such a baby about losing sometimes, dude uses the best character in the game and is playing a good matchup for fox and still complains. And if he had won he wouldn’t have said shit.
Nah, he probably still would have complained. I've run into a lot of people that do that. Shoot boot up any shooter or League of Legends and wait 20 minutes. Someone will be throwing a fit even though they're winning.
@@majestic95 The ledge grab limit already doesnt matter because the game isn't getting stalled to time. I'm talking about if ibdw had won the games where hbox was doing the ledge grab shit.
fwiw I thought it was typical for foxes to try and leave puff at around 60-80% instead of lasering as you still get jab usmash and uthrow uair at that those percents but you if you laser her out of those percents it no longer works.
it was a joke you clown stfu theyre friends dont get me started on how hbox had their set at smash summit 11 be played in a 60 degree room so he would have the advantage on cody smashers will do anything to win u aint know shit
Thats because you struggle with that same hate in your heart. Why not see this is a beautiful demonstration of ego and passion and that this game has a cool way of bringing the humanity out of players
Honestly I don’t see a problem with the current rule set, if you time out while ledge stalling, stocks don’t matter the staller loses the game. Plus the actual stalling the hbox was doing was minimal or rather it wasn’t too egregious, he stalled for abt 2 minutes in total (as in all time added up in a match at least in game one where it was the worst imo) and ended the game under the timer without timing out, (it wasn’t even close to timing out). Plus its not even that viable of a strategy, as shown in game 1-3 (while Cody still had a strong mental fortitude) idbw was able to catch hbox and even out the stocks fairly quickly. I think it’s toxic that members of this community are so incredibly petty and weak as to complain about counter play to puffs worst mu and and defensive play in general. You are literally playing by far the best character in the game with a winning mu against puff whether that be with stalling or not stalling. It’s disheartening to see and also pretty cringy to see. Like grow up lmao.
Right thatd be like a falcon player complaining about samus because they cant get in some characters have to play differently in order to win a Match what should be encouraged is how a player adapts to the play and how they develop a strat to win kinda how ken would use marths counter to force his opponents to adapt
Unfortunately its not that straight forward. If puff has the stock lead and wants to camp ledge its pretty detrimental to try and approach. Meaning fear of timeouts force you to approach invincible ledge puff. Thats tough
@@Uavrayy What the original comment is saying is correct. If someone goes over the Ledge Grab Limit and the game times out then regardless of stocks the person who didn't camp wins. If IBDW was down 1 stock to 4 but HBox grabbed the ledge 86 times and the game was a time-out, then IBDW would win the game. The reason Cody is pissed here is the LGL is set to 80 which is really high. Since Cody died before the timeout, he wouldn't get the technical win with the LGL.
Also Hbox wasn't just planking the whole game. Cody would just dash dance center stage when Hbox was hovering on stage. If you are down in stocks that is non-interactive.
Cody punished hbox by taking a stock nearly every time hbox used it. Hbox lost 3 stock due to ledge camping, from an up air, and two down tilts. If Cody had realized that he had legitimate options to counter (downtilt, up air, and fox's superior ground speed) and stopped whining he probably would have won the set. Armada faced the same thing back in 2014-2015, and got really good at punishing hbox for it.
The thing is. Cody is really good at this match-up. Easily one of the best vs puff in the world. He knows its winning. As someone who loves his gameplay, this is ridiculous
Finally. No one realizes he was dealing with it well until he started malding. Puff has to play like that to keep up with these other characters. Mix in ledge play with aggressive play.
@@vintagefalcon3974 define theses others character Because i will aquiesce in the case of fox since he can camp back but if played better puff can hang with anyone not camping her back She has less room to grow, but hbox is notriously not going for the execution heavy stuff like shieldrop rests, as is i agree with her placement being 5th best but she can go higher, and she doesnt need heavy camping to get there
Holy hell, how are you two gonna blame the player and not the TOs? The organizers are actually SUPPOSED TO know the limit. The players are just there to play. iBDW played, then asked about the limit. It should have been over 5 seconds later when a TO walked over and said "here's your answer", rather than "uh I don't know, let me draw this scene out unnecessarily."
And to be clear, the TOs aren't terrible people for now knowing this off the top of their heads. But they are 100% the one's responsible for this scene being drawn out. Every player has the right to ask for a rules check, and the any TO watching that match should have been checking before the game was done. It was very clear that Hbox was stalling intentionally, there's no excuse not to be prepared for the inevitable question.
Occasionally I forget he actually has fans. Then again our community is home of the scumbag known as leffen. Melee community truly does tolerate horrible people, while condemning geniuses. P.S. Free my boy Hax$
0:342:18 There's no way you can listen to Cody talk to you like that and not feel like his anti pop off was "just a joke" I mean, it was, but in that moment I would've felt contempt
Nah man Cody was doing it outa pure frustration and malice…. Even back in “online-era” Cody showed he had a weak mental game when it didn’t play in his favor.
At the risk of sounding naive... isn't it just sort of part of the game that if you're behind that you have to approach and put yourself into disadvantageous situations? Obviously Ledge Grab limit is something to combat extreme disadvantage, but part of melee is advantage and disadvantage states, and one of puff's largest boons is once an advantage is gained the opponent is required to put themselves into said disadvantageous states.
Reminds me of Hbox and ChuDat's sets and everyone whined about Hbox camping despite him being ahead the entire set and having no reason to approach and ChuDat behind a full stock or more completely refused to approach.
@@dinospumoni5611 Yeah exactly. Or you can probably bring any M2K set up in the history of ever that he's been ahead in. Just because people play optimally doesn't mean you should punish it. Obviously LGL needs to be refined some as to make there a little bit better of comeback potential, but whining when he was 10 under even the smallest amount of ledge grab limits is just childish. Obviously, I'm a scrub compared to these players, so I don't know what it's like to get into a puff wall, but adjusting rules to nerf puff just because you dislike optimal advantage play seems off to me.
There's a difference between playing defensive to force your opponent to make an unsafe move and stalling by not interacting. The first case is a part of neutral and the latter is a win condition -> you have to (if it's even possible) to execute test my safe non-interacting play or I win by timeout. Timeout should never be a win condition, it's only there for logistical purposes.
Yeah but melee is known as fast paced. People don't want to see first to 3 sets that all go to time. I play other fighting games like tekken and I realized Melee is the only community where playing for time is frowned upon. Maybe if all the games were like 3 or 4 minute timer instead of 8 there could be unlimited ledge grab limits
@@MattChang12 wow, really?? That sounds so crazy to me that timeouts aren't frowned upon in other games. I mostly follow Smash Ultimate but timeouts seem to be frowned upon in all Smash games. Which I can understand, because to time someone out usually means minimizing interactions and/or camping the entire time. The duration of the set definitely matters, but do you think there are other reasons why timeouts aren't frowned upon in other games? Is it cuz in games like Tekken it's harder to run away and camp compared to Smash?
I do think when you're someone who is hated by the community for a playstyle/using a character that isn't exciting and receiving so much flak for it (to the point where someone threw a lobster at him a few years ago), it takes so much mental fortitude to rise above that. I've always been a fan of Hbox. Furthermore I think he's so much more loved now not just because of the success he's had with Melee but also his streaming he's done for Ultimate and the fact he's given so much back to the community too including hosting tournaments.
I love how they have surgical rules in place specifically cause hbox ran a train on the community for years and even then hes still making the furry mains mad. Love it lol
like Foreigh said, Mew2King was just as much of a problem, and I'd say even worse of one. He'd get one stock leads as Marth vs Falco, and just ledge camp for 6-7 minutes, knowing Falco was at disadvantage with Marth on ledge. He would do this for entire sets. Hbox is only known for this, because people like to cry about Hbox. There was a major that he won by timing out an Ice Climber, and people threw a fit. When the reality was, his opponent only got kills on him that set by wobbling with ice climbers. Which is a pretty easy thing to do. And they banned wobbling at the same time they created the ledge grab limit. It's f'd up to tell someone they have to engage with their opponent, but their opponent is allowed to use easy 0-Death true combo that isn't affected by staled moves. When both were banned, I was pretty happy. Means watching is more interesting, and no single characters benefits from it.
It's literally not about Puff winning. Nobody gives a damn if Puff won. They care that Hbox chose to pull that garbage strategy like he always does. And this one time someone holds him accountable, everyone snaps at the player who ACTUALLY PLAYED, rather than the guy who intentionally stalled the game out like an asshole.
@@ericpheymannicie5044 "Hold him accountable" as if he was breaking a rule. Which he wasn't. Trying to hold him accountable just because "I don't like the way he played" is just plain petty.
panda has a hypocrite soylet that used to spam the n word on the smashboard while canceling other smashers for old stuff under contract, i think thats worse than this
What I'm not seeing a lot of comments talk about is the inherent differences in puff vs the rest of the cast and how the ledge grab limit doesn't apply evenly across the board. Puff has 6 jumps, insane aerial mobility, and a side b that doesn't lose her any height. The rest of the cast typically seen in tournies just have their double jumps and up Bs, so they naturally need to grab ledge more than puff ever will in a game (if trying to stall). In the right conditions, puff can stall an opponent out on ledge or off stage with little to no practical counters. If an opponent happens to get the lead, a capable puff can get it back quickly with rest and start the cycle over again. I don't think it's reasonable to make blanket rules for the entire cast when there's a clear outlier that isn't affected by it.
@@shoobopper I didn't think I'd need to go over any more details for what I believed to be such a clear cut case. If you're not just trolling, what's your counterargument?
the rest of the cast is twice as fast and has kill options under 50%, and doesnt insta-die from a shield break, AND its all inherent with their set. in order for puff to do any of that shit, you actually have to use correct button inputs, spacing, and timing. the rest of the cast has options specifically designed to handle all those puff options INHERENTLY, meaning without putting forth the time in labbing you would need to in order to be even a quarter as successful while using puff. tl;Dr shut up
what an L attitude when losing i get calling someone out if they break the rules because it was the only reason they won but hbox clearly beat him there ledge grabs or not
cant stand ibdw. hes a great player but my god he is such a whiner. I remember when hbox beat him online and ibdw cried, stopped streaming and deleted his twitter
he only grabbed ledge 36 times tho, not even close. I totally support a ledge grab limit pretty much just for the sake of hbox but cody was literally just whining for losing the game
Yeah but isn't 45 the absolute lowest and he said it cause he saw 36 on screen, like seeing someone who's 20 when they need to be 18+ usually and saying can we check the age restriction only to find out its 16+
Like I'm fine with double checking rules but plenty of other players hit 30+ ledge grabs in this tourney, its just cause puff is slower between grabs so its more of a stall element. Wouldn't be surprised if jmook or zain had similar ledge grab numbers in some of their games
Honestly out of all the top players I would not expect Cody to be this salty about Hbox. Hbox has played like this since the beginning, and Cody was one of the only Foxes who was patient enough to deal with his nonsense fairly consistently. I know Cody is kind of known for whining, but I'm surprised.
He has very massive mood swings. Some tournaments, he encounters Hbox and other players that stall and slow the game down and he'll be cool as a cucumber. Then there are other tournaments where he just whines and whines.
Whats crazy is hbox isn't anywhere near as bad as he was like 3 years ago with playing campy. I am not an hbox fan but this whole tournament has made me really not like ibdw.
It's about holding Hbox accountable. It's not about whether he was going to win or not. He knew the ledge limit wasn't reached, but he also knew that Hbox took it upon himself to play the ledge-stall strategy; every other player just lets him do that without holding him accountable. iBDW said "ok, but we need to stop and check the rules if you're going to play that way." And honestly more players should push for this. It was embarrassing watching Hbox camp simply to try enraging his opponen; it's embarrassing and ugly every time he does it. iBDW didn't have some mental breakdown, he just held Hbox accountable for playing the way he did. Well done. If people think this makes the game ugly, don't blame the guy who called for a rules check. Blame the guy who literally made the game ugly in order to win. Ledge camping to that extent is extremely ugly and boring and it should have consequences.
because theyre the ones who know the most about it lol. id bet half my nutsack that this is the case for every smash game and the people who are into one and only one of them.
@@Parpeing Subjective means opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong unless they either agree with a fact or contradict a fact. There is no factual "best game in the series," unless you count marketing results such as sales/ratings, and as far as those go, all of the smash games are very close in ratings and scores, but Ultimate has the most sales by far while melee has the second to least.
I love how people use to get mad if u supported hbox and if this was like before Covid times everyone would be on Cody’s side but know the table’s have turned. To be fair to Cody I would imagine playing Hbox at times can get very frustrating. And at such a high level of competing most people get annoyed playing against a slow punish style of play.
Hbox has the life lead, fox has the ability to make puff commit through lasers while having better movement for whiff punishes, and melee has other factors where the opponent is negative on hit if you do approach them at low %. Why would he need to approach at that point? That's like basic fighting game fundamentals 101. Seriously idk why melee players insist on being hyper aggressive and give up life leads and unessecary stocks. You don't need to play lame necessarily but you need to assess where you are in the match, the opponent/character you're playing against, and change playstyles accordingly. Stop fumbling the bag lol.
Listen, I hate slow, stalled Melee as much as the next guy, but to be the dweeb who says "Ummmmm is that in the rule book?" made me automatically root for HBox in this set and forever root against iBDW.
Hbox smirking while using all 5 jumps to milk as much time off the clock as possible each time he went to the ledge, and he only had 34 ledge grabs when the limit was 80. There are going to be so many rules implemented because of him to prevent this from ever happening again.
People switch to fox FOR puff because fox’s tools work very well against puff. When the fox starts to complain about their lasers not working because a puff is on ledge, they get tilted. Plain and simple. You can argue stalling is one of puff’s tools, just as laser camping is fox’s tool. Why do characters only ledge stall against projectile characters I wonder? 🤔
All the top players have some camping near ledge strategy , or kill at zero combos, thats just part of the game. iBDW is playing fox who’s no stranger to playing lame to get his combos or kills so thats just the match up
There are no other players who run to ledge because they are a stock up, and stay on ledge just because they can. Watch every other set in this, or any tournament. No other player hugs the ledge as a singular strategy. They run to ledge to avoid a literally invincible opponent (returning from the angel platform) then they get back on stage and fight. Or they jump to ledge and throw out hitboxes on an approaching opponent to gain a foothold when they are cornered. Nobody else camps the ledge just to camp, and just because they're up a stock. Everyone else plays the goddamn game. Hbox is just a garbage human and somehow people want to blame the guy that just asked for a rules check? It would have taken all of 5 seconds to ask about the Limit and move on, if the TOs had the information on hand (and they had no excuse not to, after sitting through that game with all the intentional stalling).
@@Windraesa we're talking about the guy who made that janky rule necessary in the first place. We shouldn't need rules like that, because it should be obvious that playing like that ruins the game. Not to mention how a rule like that potentially impacts players of other characters who didn't do anything to deserve it (if anyone ever called for this rule against amsa for example, he might get a loss for no reason, just because Yoshi's legitimate ledge defense has a very high ledge grab frequency without stalling the game at all). Also, though this one comes from the future, showing up to a COVID-cautious tournament sick and not wearing a mask, then leaving after eliminating another hard-working player from the top rounds is certainty more evidence to support the "garbage human" diagnosis. You don't have to agree with a polar opinion, but it doesn't make it invalid.
@@ericpheymannicie5044 you're cherry picking, and passing off statements as fact to further your (unconvincing) argument. just to pick one of your arguments and dismantle it: in every 'sport', people have always pushed the rules to the absolute limit, it's the most natural thing in the world for people to seek out any advantage within a ruleset. in turn, this causes new rules to emerge in turn to balance these 'loopholes' that have been found with fair play. what occurs is a dynamic equilibrium between people pushing boundaries and new rules coming in. it happens in every sport and has actually happened many many times within melee. so in conclusion the sentiment of 'we shouldn't need rules like that ' is unfounded nonsense. cheers :)
Imagine if foxes just stopped approaching and started counting ledge grabs and let the game go to time after only shooting lasers. In my region, I don't ever approach a puff, I shoot them and neutral scrap for percentage. Last set I played against a puff who ledge camps and corner camps, I shot them to 175%, anything will kill at that so they felt no need to approach and felt scared. Game went to time with even 3 stock to 3 stock, and they had a higher percentage and 105 ledge grabs. I win the game, next game I did the same thing. Game didn't go to time because they had the lead, just like this, I shot them to 140% on yoshi, they did one silly approach and I bair them off stage, even game now. I shot them for another 2 minutes back up to 150% suddenly I'm in the lead. Let it go to time, or let them approach me, they approached (which I assumed they would based on game 1) and I up smashed them. EZ
Leffen is so lucky to still be able to play this game just cuz he has a sick Fox bruh he got no right to complain as he should've been banned a long time ago after being such a terrible person and figurehead in the community lmao
Is unfair to make a rule and change it just because of one player, is just because of hbox no one else is doing this and a target attempt to make him worse, the fact that he hasn't won every single mayor and tournament he's gone to, shows even without the ledge grab limit hbox is still beatable Cody is a good player but the fact that he would've taken a win like that if possible, makes me loose respect for him
I don't necessarily agree with IBDW's comment during the match, but a ledge grab limit of 80 is basically not having one. If you do 80 regrabs in an average of 2 second intervals (a generous assumption for puff), that's 2 mins 40 secs, a third of the 8 min timer.
Pros complaining about the ledge grab limit in a series where no game went to time is some little dick energy. Especially coming from Fox players, who have Evade + Spam Laser to at least tack on damage while running away.
If a game goes to time to avoid endless planking there is a rule that allows to check how many time someone grabbed the ledge The ledge is a very dangerous position to be in in melee unless you got 5 jumps and pounds to greatly help recovering Camping benefiting nearly only puff, this ruleset is there to keep the game moving and not super fkin stale Essentially
![[UNCUT] The Loyal Pin ปิ่นภักดิ์ EP.4 (4/4)](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/d3l5rxl5CVo/mqdefault.jpg)
Mang0 overjoyed that someone is finally getting camped harder than he was
More of a testament to what hbox does to EVERY player he plays...seems like a typical Mang0 disliker comment to me
@@2Boios mango disliker? Man that comment was mild at its harshest tf are you on
@@Parpeing mango gets infinite stanning
@@nathanlevesque7812 and he gets hate for sure but like.... that clearly wasnt lmaoo
@@Parpeing unclear syntax
And so the cycle is born anew. Hungrybox wins a tourney -> Puff complainers
Literally true combo
you're aware more characters than just puff can ledge stall right?
@@bb_lou exactly, it's about stalling being genuinely heartbreaking to deal with. I respect puff players like I respect iceys but ledgecamping rules should get reevaluated. should be like a catch all "30 seconds of it = a strike, three strikes and your out". This isn't ban worthy like wobbling, but its damn close.
@@Cropod just counter play💀
@@bb_lou lol honestly, Marth can and it annoyed Westballz. So can sheik with consistent uninterrupted s. Nobody complaining about Jmook...
Everyone remember; Zain grabbed ledge more in losers finals game five than hbox did in the game Cody complained about
It's almost like a numerical count of ledge crabs doesn't fully doesn't fully capture the nuance of an entire game of smash Bros.
Puff grabbing ledge goes makes puff even more annoying
A la m2k, the original ledge camper hahaha
Zain edgeguards and recovers offstage often. Hbox bases his entire game around it and stalls. OP is an idiot
@@DBSMoonMaster go back to reddit
You know what they say
If Leffen disagrees with you, you’re doing something right
hax fucking money baby
Trueee.
I can respect wanting to check the rules and stuff but what an L attitude at 2:17 lmao
I've heard you treat some of your mates pretty badly too Simple, we all have our L moments. At least his in a major tournament with a lot on the line, not just because he's inherently a knob
shoutouts
Glad someone reputable is calling that shit out. I HATE Hbox's playstyle too but he's handling it in the most bitch way possible
@@kizzagaming6523 Can you elaborate on what you heard ? Just curious
@@jonathanrivera2878 I'd rather not since it'd be pointless drama, just think it's not a great vibe
Hbox wins and Puff complaining has returned; it's nice to be back.
Coming home after a long and bizarre journey.
It's like we never left
I dont even like hbox really but this is great
nature is healing
hbox is so good but yes its annoying that puff can be easier than other characters to play and when ur competing at that level it really sucks to see your hard work get beat by that playstyle
Hbox just laughing is amazing
lmfaoooooo Hbox isn't the villain anymore he's the antihero, I love this guy
He is a solid dude. His playstyle brings the craziness out for sure
@@2Boios crazy like 3 day festival on all types of shit and no water or like grandpa in the nursing home crazy
Hbox was always the hero my G
@@Parpeing dude what
He was never a villain, but unfortunately, we got shitheads like leffen that try to make him the villain
It’s funny how in this clip Hbox grabbed ledge a whole zero times
Clickbait title, leffen wasn’t even in the video. SMH my head
"Shaking My Head my head"?
@@lloydaran SMH means "shaking my head", its like an acronym. Hope this helps!
@@Blibetyblabla Reread OP's comment and you will see what he meant.
I think you meant to reply to Lloyd there but yeah, you got this Lloyd!
@@Blibetyblabla reread brandons comment and you will see what he meant
Goddamnit dude. Cody is so good but maaaaaaaan he’s the biggest whiner ever. I want to pull for him it’s just so hard to sometimes
His stock value was so high after that great set against Mango and then it dipped after this, plummeted after the counter pop off thing he did.
That fox is sick as fuck though
@@meleessb his controller is sick...
Fucking died laughing at the counter pop off, it was so awkward. If hbox laughed straight away then it would've been fine but instead just cringe
I mean, if a rule is there and it would give you a win, wouldn’t you try and use the rule? It’s lame as shit but hey I’ll take that any day if I get a win out of it.
@@limitedbom2206 I don’t blame him for trying to use the rule it’s the fact that he’s such a sore loser about it. I completely get going by the rules and I agree it’s poorly defined. It just rubs me the wrong way how he handled it and his demeanor. He’s one of our best and behaving that way sets a super poor example.
The only thing Foxes are better at than tech skill is whining.
True but this is just cody bitching more than the average fox
Idk leff tech skill isn’t as strong as his whining, and his whining pales in comparison to his bullying and manipulation
And the tech skill is only evident in wave shines. Beyond that almost all pros have that ability level
@@rememberthiscomment7434 Dark Triad rofl
@@rememberthiscomment7434 dark triad?
I thought the ledgegrab limit only applies when games actually go to time, which none of their games did. That's how it was for brawl tournaments, and how it used to be for melee. Did they change it recently? If not, it's really amazing that no one remembered that aspect ofbthe rule.
Yeah wtf you’re right
Yeah, that’s how it’s been at every tournament I’ve ever seen.
Ibdw literally brought this up, it may have been different at this tournament.
@@billwoods7578 That tournament is playing with jank rules then, the entire rule book should’ve been re-read cuz who knows what other oddities they might have then.
Someone on a different video answered this for me. Apparently at goml it applies in real time, not just when the match goes to time. Also the limit was reduced to 60 instead of 80
I definitely see leffen in this video
You could just feel it
You know somewhere in the world he’s complaining that puff is an easy character
his spirit is in ibdw
Leffen and Leffen's biggest fan.
Fr? Ew.
How can anyone actually like Leffen.
Not true, Leffen is Leffen's biggest fan
Cody is such a baby about losing sometimes, dude uses the best character in the game and is playing a good matchup for fox and still complains. And if he had won he wouldn’t have said shit.
Straight facts. Sick of hearing that pussy shit
Nah, he probably still would have complained. I've run into a lot of people that do that. Shoot boot up any shooter or League of Legends and wait 20 minutes. Someone will be throwing a fit even though they're winning.
If he won then it wouldn’t matter if hbox reached the ledge grab limit?? U good bruv
@@majestic95 The ledge grab limit already doesnt matter because the game isn't getting stalled to time. I'm talking about if ibdw had won the games where hbox was doing the ledge grab shit.
The smile hbox gave when he said “45” after seeing the 36 ledge hangs gives me life
What if I told you that instead of dash dancing you could shoot lasers
But then they don't get to whine and we can't possibly have that
@@hypersnake7904 it does make for entertaining melee lol the jons are half the reason we have any type of discussion anyway
fwiw I thought it was typical for foxes to try and leave puff at around 60-80% instead of lasering as you still get jab usmash and uthrow uair at that those percents but you if you laser her out of those percents it no longer works.
@@StarArcanum interesting! Well I guess TIL something
@@StarArcanum laser he out of those percents and legit any move willl kill
Seeing this and then seeing his reverse pop off is the definition of a sore loser. Win with grace and lose with dignity
it was a joke you clown stfu
theyre friends
dont get me started on how hbox had their set at smash summit 11 be played in a 60 degree room so he would have the advantage on cody
smashers will do anything to win u aint know shit
Check the Mew2King comment on the pop off video, it was planned.
"Win with grace" is something hbox can certainly improve on...
@@Hobie02425 yeah lmao i totally agree its bad etiquette on cody's part but... winning with grace? Lmaoooo aight
@@Hobie02425 popping off is on the edge of grace. I don’t think hbox pops off directly in your face right? That would be crossing the edge a bit
I love seeing the pure hatred in him. You’re going up against Hbox, man is gonna play to win and I respect it.
Thats because you struggle with that same hate in your heart. Why not see this is a beautiful demonstration of ego and passion and that this game has a cool way of bringing the humanity out of players
thats not playing to win, thats trying to find loopholes
@@mjgoat5978 The ledge grab limit is 80, Hbox got under 45. Its not a loophole its IBDW crying about a rule when he should just stop playing scared
@@mjgoat5978 he literally played by the rules he never exceeded the grab limit, no loopholes, so wtf are you talking ab
@@ProcessHF Actually the ledge grab limit was 60. They gave wrong information, but corrected it after
Honestly I don’t see a problem with the current rule set, if you time out while ledge stalling, stocks don’t matter the staller loses the game. Plus the actual stalling the hbox was doing was minimal or rather it wasn’t too egregious, he stalled for abt 2 minutes in total (as in all time added up in a match at least in game one where it was the worst imo) and ended the game under the timer without timing out, (it wasn’t even close to timing out). Plus its not even that viable of a strategy, as shown in game 1-3 (while Cody still had a strong mental fortitude) idbw was able to catch hbox and even out the stocks fairly quickly. I think it’s toxic that members of this community are so incredibly petty and weak as to complain about counter play to puffs worst mu and and defensive play in general. You are literally playing by far the best character in the game with a winning mu against puff whether that be with stalling or not stalling. It’s disheartening to see and also pretty cringy to see. Like grow up lmao.
Right thatd be like a falcon player complaining about samus because they cant get in some characters have to play differently in order to win a Match what should be encouraged is how a player adapts to the play and how they develop a strat to win kinda how ken would use marths counter to force his opponents to adapt
Leffen is complaining? Ah, so he's still breathing then.
It only matters if it goes to time bruh
Unfortunately its not that straight forward. If puff has the stock lead and wants to camp ledge its pretty detrimental to try and approach. Meaning fear of timeouts force you to approach invincible ledge puff. Thats tough
For real man. Ibdw is being a huuuge bitch here.
@@Uavrayy What the original comment is saying is correct. If someone goes over the Ledge Grab Limit and the game times out then regardless of stocks the person who didn't camp wins. If IBDW was down 1 stock to 4 but HBox grabbed the ledge 86 times and the game was a time-out, then IBDW would win the game. The reason Cody is pissed here is the LGL is set to 80 which is really high. Since Cody died before the timeout, he wouldn't get the technical win with the LGL.
But the time is insanely long too. So ledge grab limits would rarely be relevant
Also Hbox wasn't just planking the whole game. Cody would just dash dance center stage when Hbox was hovering on stage. If you are down in stocks that is non-interactive.
And supposedly Zain did more ledge grabs in losers finals than Hbox here. Weird huh.
Cody punished hbox by taking a stock nearly every time hbox used it. Hbox lost 3 stock due to ledge camping, from an up air, and two down tilts.
If Cody had realized that he had legitimate options to counter (downtilt, up air, and fox's superior ground speed) and stopped whining he probably would have won the set.
Armada faced the same thing back in 2014-2015, and got really good at punishing hbox for it.
yeah codys just a whinny fox main
The thing is. Cody is really good at this match-up. Easily one of the best vs puff in the world. He knows its winning. As someone who loves his gameplay, this is ridiculous
@@wxbrainiac he’s so annoying
Finally. No one realizes he was dealing with it well until he started malding. Puff has to play like that to keep up with these other characters. Mix in ledge play with aggressive play.
@@vintagefalcon3974 define theses others character
Because i will aquiesce in the case of fox since he can camp back but if played better puff can hang with anyone not camping her back
She has less room to grow, but hbox is notriously not going for the execution heavy stuff like shieldrop rests, as is i agree with her placement being 5th best but she can go higher, and she doesnt need heavy camping to get there
Foxes when faced with a winning matchup
All Cody does is complain……. I never liked him after he lost an online tournament and just complained for so long.
fr
and his stupid pop off after losing the set, hes just a manchild tbh
Let's also have a laser/projectile limit as well.
i dont get why he waited until he was on stage to figure out the rules. like he didnt know what HBox is about
That's the big thing for me. Dude enters a major tournament and doesn't even read the rules.
Holy hell, how are you two gonna blame the player and not the TOs? The organizers are actually SUPPOSED TO know the limit. The players are just there to play. iBDW played, then asked about the limit. It should have been over 5 seconds later when a TO walked over and said "here's your answer", rather than "uh I don't know, let me draw this scene out unnecessarily."
And to be clear, the TOs aren't terrible people for now knowing this off the top of their heads. But they are 100% the one's responsible for this scene being drawn out. Every player has the right to ask for a rules check, and the any TO watching that match should have been checking before the game was done. It was very clear that Hbox was stalling intentionally, there's no excuse not to be prepared for the inevitable question.
Lmao can't believe how unlikable IBDW is
Occasionally I forget he actually has fans.
Then again our community is home of the scumbag known as leffen. Melee community truly does tolerate horrible people, while condemning geniuses.
P.S.
Free my boy Hax$
0:34 2:18 There's no way you can listen to Cody talk to you like that and not feel like his anti pop off was "just a joke"
I mean, it was, but in that moment I would've felt contempt
Was it really 🤔
Nah man Cody was doing it outa pure frustration and malice…. Even back in “online-era” Cody showed he had a weak mental game when it didn’t play in his favor.
No way his “anti-pop off” was a joke you could see it in his eyes. He was acting like a man child.
@@rejectscorner9939 Cody respects HBox only if he wins against him, otherwise he cries
I agree. Cody is annoying and lacks the ability to look at himself objectively.
At the risk of sounding naive... isn't it just sort of part of the game that if you're behind that you have to approach and put yourself into disadvantageous situations? Obviously Ledge Grab limit is something to combat extreme disadvantage, but part of melee is advantage and disadvantage states, and one of puff's largest boons is once an advantage is gained the opponent is required to put themselves into said disadvantageous states.
Reminds me of Hbox and ChuDat's sets and everyone whined about Hbox camping despite him being ahead the entire set and having no reason to approach and ChuDat behind a full stock or more completely refused to approach.
@@dinospumoni5611 Yeah exactly. Or you can probably bring any M2K set up in the history of ever that he's been ahead in. Just because people play optimally doesn't mean you should punish it. Obviously LGL needs to be refined some as to make there a little bit better of comeback potential, but whining when he was 10 under even the smallest amount of ledge grab limits is just childish.
Obviously, I'm a scrub compared to these players, so I don't know what it's like to get into a puff wall, but adjusting rules to nerf puff just because you dislike optimal advantage play seems off to me.
There's a difference between playing defensive to force your opponent to make an unsafe move and stalling by not interacting. The first case is a part of neutral and the latter is a win condition -> you have to (if it's even possible) to execute test my safe non-interacting play or I win by timeout. Timeout should never be a win condition, it's only there for logistical purposes.
Yeah but melee is known as fast paced. People don't want to see first to 3 sets that all go to time. I play other fighting games like tekken and I realized Melee is the only community where playing for time is frowned upon. Maybe if all the games were like 3 or 4 minute timer instead of 8 there could be unlimited ledge grab limits
@@MattChang12 wow, really?? That sounds so crazy to me that timeouts aren't frowned upon in other games. I mostly follow Smash Ultimate but timeouts seem to be frowned upon in all Smash games. Which I can understand, because to time someone out usually means minimizing interactions and/or camping the entire time. The duration of the set definitely matters, but do you think there are other reasons why timeouts aren't frowned upon in other games? Is it cuz in games like Tekken it's harder to run away and camp compared to Smash?
Hbox continues to be the only melee pro with any kind of mental maturity.
I do think when you're someone who is hated by the community for a playstyle/using a character that isn't exciting and receiving so much flak for it (to the point where someone threw a lobster at him a few years ago), it takes so much mental fortitude to rise above that. I've always been a fan of Hbox. Furthermore I think he's so much more loved now not just because of the success he's had with Melee but also his streaming he's done for Ultimate and the fact he's given so much back to the community too including hosting tournaments.
LMAO you call his obnoxious pop offs mature?
@@jlow3777 more mature than whatever iBDW did after the set.
L comment
@@jlow3777 Dude is passionate bro. No different to an athlete in a sport winning a competition or really tough match. Nothing wrong with it at all.
I love how they have surgical rules in place specifically cause hbox ran a train on the community for years and even then hes still making the furry mains mad. Love it lol
Mew2King was just as much of a problem. He would plank on ledge with sheik for 70+ ledge grabs if he really wanted to win.
like Foreigh said, Mew2King was just as much of a problem, and I'd say even worse of one. He'd get one stock leads as Marth vs Falco, and just ledge camp for 6-7 minutes, knowing Falco was at disadvantage with Marth on ledge. He would do this for entire sets.
Hbox is only known for this, because people like to cry about Hbox. There was a major that he won by timing out an Ice Climber, and people threw a fit. When the reality was, his opponent only got kills on him that set by wobbling with ice climbers. Which is a pretty easy thing to do. And they banned wobbling at the same time they created the ledge grab limit. It's f'd up to tell someone they have to engage with their opponent, but their opponent is allowed to use easy 0-Death true combo that isn't affected by staled moves. When both were banned, I was pretty happy. Means watching is more interesting, and no single characters benefits from it.
When leffen complained in this video I went nuts
I popped off
Cody is such a sore loser, funny to see him lose to HGod. Pure salt
Hbox's thumbs up was so iconic 😂
(Puff wins her first major since 2020)
"NERF THIS FUCKING CHARACTER RIGHT NOW"
What game are you playing
What do you think you're watching this isnt ultimate or league
@@Parpeing If it's a balance change that only serves to make Puff worse, then that's a nerf, official or otherwise
@@Connor_Kirkpatrick shes not the only character who can refresh invicibility with the ledge, just the easiest
It's literally not about Puff winning. Nobody gives a damn if Puff won. They care that Hbox chose to pull that garbage strategy like he always does. And this one time someone holds him accountable, everyone snaps at the player who ACTUALLY PLAYED, rather than the guy who intentionally stalled the game out like an asshole.
@@ericpheymannicie5044 "Hold him accountable" as if he was breaking a rule. Which he wasn't. Trying to hold him accountable just because "I don't like the way he played" is just plain petty.
The sheer soy in this MU mangling Cody's finger in contempt
Bro this makes Panda looks so bad omg 💀
Wouldn't be surprised if they drop him
panda has a hypocrite soylet that used to spam the n word on the smashboard while canceling other smashers for old stuff under contract, i think thats worse than this
@@MultiDarkII totally a proud efam 💪🏾
One of the best players in the world wanting to see the rules because his opponent is camping? Oh yeah makes panda look SO BAD
Leffen will shit on Hbox anytime he gets the opportunity. Can't believe that guy has a following.
Leffen is pure hate and venom. Dude is the worst.
Carried by fox
Click bait has ascended to just saying Leffen's name and hoping people show up to hate watch. Leffen isn't even in the video
"Ascended" as if click bait hasn't always included things like that.
Yeah this is awesome lmao
Usually bait like this is just for trolls but im happy people are making money out of this
I still don't get why he even tried to check for ledge grabs when the rule only applies to a timeout that just shows he was trying to grime him real
What I'm not seeing a lot of comments talk about is the inherent differences in puff vs the rest of the cast and how the ledge grab limit doesn't apply evenly across the board. Puff has 6 jumps, insane aerial mobility, and a side b that doesn't lose her any height. The rest of the cast typically seen in tournies just have their double jumps and up Bs, so they naturally need to grab ledge more than puff ever will in a game (if trying to stall). In the right conditions, puff can stall an opponent out on ledge or off stage with little to no practical counters. If an opponent happens to get the lead, a capable puff can get it back quickly with rest and start the cycle over again. I don't think it's reasonable to make blanket rules for the entire cast when there's a clear outlier that isn't affected by it.
Shallow analysis
@@shoobopper how so
@@shoobopper shallow response.
@@shoobopper I didn't think I'd need to go over any more details for what I believed to be such a clear cut case. If you're not just trolling, what's your counterargument?
the rest of the cast is twice as fast and has kill options under 50%, and doesnt insta-die from a shield break, AND its all inherent with their set. in order for puff to do any of that shit, you actually have to use correct button inputs, spacing, and timing. the rest of the cast has options specifically designed to handle all those puff options INHERENTLY, meaning without putting forth the time in labbing you would need to in order to be even a quarter as successful while using puff.
tl;Dr shut up
Hbox wins a tourney with no games even timing out, and the foxes complain. Nothing makes fox more lame than the players
Love to see this Hbox is my goat
what an L attitude when losing i get calling someone out if they break the rules because it was the only reason they won but hbox clearly beat him there ledge grabs or not
What a great spectator event. Very engaging.
First 45, then 80 - actual ruleset, it's 60... Even the TOs don't take LGLs seriously
cant stand ibdw. hes a great player but my god he is such a whiner. I remember when hbox beat him online and ibdw cried, stopped streaming and deleted his twitter
Wtf? Is there a clip of this???
@@The_WIll_OF_D99 probably ibdws twitch channel. happened months ago. also wouldn't be surprised if he deleted them
@@catchthesefans damn
I never heard of ledge grab limit being applied to a non timeout, is that a thing?
I don’t know, I thought it was only to timeouts too
That guy in the front row in the crowd is so big and tough... His arms are huge. The scariest person of all time!!!
Cody does cry a lot but it does matter to define the rule since its only relevant against hbox. 80 is pretty ridiculous.
They confirmed it was 60 shortly after
he only grabbed ledge 36 times tho, not even close. I totally support a ledge grab limit pretty much just for the sake of hbox but cody was literally just whining for losing the game
@@alexblackburn2247 it is close because in some rules it's 45. so 36 is relatively close to 45, cody just didn't know which ruleset was active
Yeah but isn't 45 the absolute lowest and he said it cause he saw 36 on screen, like seeing someone who's 20 when they need to be 18+ usually and saying can we check the age restriction only to find out its 16+
Like I'm fine with double checking rules but plenty of other players hit 30+ ledge grabs in this tourney, its just cause puff is slower between grabs so its more of a stall element. Wouldn't be surprised if jmook or zain had similar ledge grab numbers in some of their games
I wish hbox made sure to play a game with 79 ledge grabs after this. or at least 69
Honestly out of all the top players I would not expect Cody to be this salty about Hbox. Hbox has played like this since the beginning, and Cody was one of the only Foxes who was patient enough to deal with his nonsense fairly consistently. I know Cody is kind of known for whining, but I'm surprised.
He has very massive mood swings. Some tournaments, he encounters Hbox and other players that stall and slow the game down and he'll be cool as a cucumber. Then there are other tournaments where he just whines and whines.
Whats crazy is hbox isn't anywhere near as bad as he was like 3 years ago with playing campy. I am not an hbox fan but this whole tournament has made me really not like ibdw.
@@x9x9x9x9x9 he was pretty untalkable too, at least compared to other top players.
It's about holding Hbox accountable. It's not about whether he was going to win or not. He knew the ledge limit wasn't reached, but he also knew that Hbox took it upon himself to play the ledge-stall strategy; every other player just lets him do that without holding him accountable. iBDW said "ok, but we need to stop and check the rules if you're going to play that way." And honestly more players should push for this. It was embarrassing watching Hbox camp simply to try enraging his opponen; it's embarrassing and ugly every time he does it. iBDW didn't have some mental breakdown, he just held Hbox accountable for playing the way he did. Well done. If people think this makes the game ugly, don't blame the guy who called for a rules check. Blame the guy who literally made the game ugly in order to win. Ledge camping to that extent is extremely ugly and boring and it should have consequences.
@@ericpheymannicie5044 Fair enough.
The people who complain the most about Melee are the ones who still say it’s the best in the series. lol
because theyre the ones who know the most about it lol. id bet half my nutsack that this is the case for every smash game and the people who are into one and only one of them.
it's is the best in the series bro, by far
@@mpdrago1730 Completely subjective.
@@DemonEyeHelix yeahhh but even subjectively hes kinda right
@@Parpeing Subjective means opinion. Opinions can't be right or wrong unless they either agree with a fact or contradict a fact. There is no factual "best game in the series," unless you count marketing results such as sales/ratings, and as far as those go, all of the smash games are very close in ratings and scores, but Ultimate has the most sales by far while melee has the second to least.
I love how people use to get mad if u supported hbox and if this was like before Covid times everyone would be on Cody’s side but know the table’s have turned. To be fair to Cody I would imagine playing Hbox at times can get very frustrating. And at such a high level of competing most people get annoyed playing against a slow punish style of play.
The community is maturing even slower than cicadas, but I'm glad to see growth.
im just tryna find where leffen is in this video
i was in the stands. shit was so funny to see without any context in the audience.
I'm not complaining about Puff, I'm complaining about Hungrybox.
WELCOME TO MELEEEEEEE
lol dude publicly embarrassed himself while getting laughed at by hbox, its like he wanted everyone to know he is beta af
Dude don't say beta lmao I thought we were past this shit
@@EclipsingMomentum tells you everything you need to know about six six lmao
@@Parpeing Having fun protecting your dad?
@@PaulBadman981 ?? I wanted to make a joke but
Giving props and defending someone, two very different things
Yk that right?
@@Parpeing Keep telling yourelf that bud
we should implement a rule about how long a fox can dash dance under a platform while we're at it
Hbox has the life lead, fox has the ability to make puff commit through lasers while having better movement for whiff punishes, and melee has other factors where the opponent is negative on hit if you do approach them at low %. Why would he need to approach at that point? That's like basic fighting game fundamentals 101. Seriously idk why melee players insist on being hyper aggressive and give up life leads and unessecary stocks. You don't need to play lame necessarily but you need to assess where you are in the match, the opponent/character you're playing against, and change playstyles accordingly. Stop fumbling the bag lol.
because it's not "hype"/"sick"
Listen, I hate slow, stalled Melee as much as the next guy, but to be the dweeb who says "Ummmmm is that in the rule book?" made me automatically root for HBox in this set and forever root against iBDW.
IBDW was just on one. IBDW is worried about what people think about him but being like this doesn't help him.
Definitely infuriating, but like he didn't even go all out planking.
With the Versace frames on
IBDW Karen Schwab.
dude flexing in the crowd has no biceps
Hbox smirking while using all 5 jumps to milk as much time off the clock as possible each time he went to the ledge, and he only had 34 ledge grabs when the limit was 80. There are going to be so many rules implemented because of him to prevent this from ever happening again.
you weren't around for 2014-16 were you lol
Pretty sure the limit was already motivated by Puff hate at its peak, and anything since then will just be salt without action.
What is the LGL#?
Man this river is deep
Hungrybox is the Justin Wong of Melee just playing defensively and tilting the fuck outta their opponents and I love it
I thought LGL only applied to timeouts??
People when Hbox loses: "Lmao get gud"
People when Hbox wins:
The better rule would be only allowing 6 consecutive ledge grabs before needing to land. Getting hit resets this counter.
People switch to fox FOR puff because fox’s tools work very well against puff. When the fox starts to complain about their lasers not working because a puff is on ledge, they get tilted. Plain and simple. You can argue stalling is one of puff’s tools, just as laser camping is fox’s tool. Why do characters only ledge stall against projectile characters I wonder? 🤔
is leffen nowhere in this vid or did i just miss it
I was wondering if someone was going to complaining about a ledge grab limit
All the top players have some camping near ledge strategy , or kill at zero combos, thats just part of the game. iBDW is playing fox who’s no stranger to playing lame to get his combos or kills so thats just the match up
There are no other players who run to ledge because they are a stock up, and stay on ledge just because they can. Watch every other set in this, or any tournament. No other player hugs the ledge as a singular strategy. They run to ledge to avoid a literally invincible opponent (returning from the angel platform) then they get back on stage and fight. Or they jump to ledge and throw out hitboxes on an approaching opponent to gain a foothold when they are cornered. Nobody else camps the ledge just to camp, and just because they're up a stock. Everyone else plays the goddamn game. Hbox is just a garbage human and somehow people want to blame the guy that just asked for a rules check? It would have taken all of 5 seconds to ask about the Limit and move on, if the TOs had the information on hand (and they had no excuse not to, after sitting through that game with all the intentional stalling).
@@ericpheymannicie5044 way too absolutist and partisan. "garbage human", way too strong to be taken seriously mate.
@@Windraesa we're talking about the guy who made that janky rule necessary in the first place. We shouldn't need rules like that, because it should be obvious that playing like that ruins the game. Not to mention how a rule like that potentially impacts players of other characters who didn't do anything to deserve it (if anyone ever called for this rule against amsa for example, he might get a loss for no reason, just because Yoshi's legitimate ledge defense has a very high ledge grab frequency without stalling the game at all). Also, though this one comes from the future, showing up to a COVID-cautious tournament sick and not wearing a mask, then leaving after eliminating another hard-working player from the top rounds is certainty more evidence to support the "garbage human" diagnosis. You don't have to agree with a polar opinion, but it doesn't make it invalid.
@@ericpheymannicie5044 you're cherry picking, and passing off statements as fact to further your (unconvincing) argument.
just to pick one of your arguments and dismantle it: in every 'sport', people have always pushed the rules to the absolute limit, it's the most natural thing in the world for people to seek out any advantage within a ruleset. in turn, this causes new rules to emerge in turn to balance these 'loopholes' that have been found with fair play. what occurs is a dynamic equilibrium between people pushing boundaries and new rules coming in. it happens in every sport and has actually happened many many times within melee.
so in conclusion the sentiment of 'we shouldn't need rules like that ' is unfounded nonsense. cheers :)
Why is leff mentioned in this title? Doing him dirty
Because he complains as much, if not more than every other pro player combined
Genuinely don't see the point of a LGL unless it goes to time
ibdw reminds me of Randall from the recess cartoon
Imagine if foxes just stopped approaching and started counting ledge grabs and let the game go to time after only shooting lasers. In my region, I don't ever approach a puff, I shoot them and neutral scrap for percentage.
Last set I played against a puff who ledge camps and corner camps, I shot them to 175%, anything will kill at that so they felt no need to approach and felt scared. Game went to time with even 3 stock to 3 stock, and they had a higher percentage and 105 ledge grabs. I win the game, next game I did the same thing. Game didn't go to time because they had the lead, just like this, I shot them to 140% on yoshi, they did one silly approach and I bair them off stage, even game now. I shot them for another 2 minutes back up to 150% suddenly I'm in the lead. Let it go to time, or let them approach me, they approached (which I assumed they would based on game 1) and I up smashed them. EZ
Leffen is so lucky to still be able to play this game just cuz he has a sick Fox bruh he got no right to complain as he should've been banned a long time ago after being such a terrible person and figurehead in the community lmao
True, genuinely terrible person, he still is
Does planking even give puff advantage.... it seems to be straight losing for puff, since fox gets steady safe passive damage.
Hbox living rent free in fox players heads
wheres leffen ?
Where tf is leffen in this?
Is unfair to make a rule and change it just because of one player, is just because of hbox no one else is doing this and a target attempt to make him worse, the fact that he hasn't won every single mayor and tournament he's gone to, shows even without the ledge grab limit hbox is still beatable Cody is a good player but the fact that he would've taken a win like that if possible, makes me loose respect for him
The players who main the highest tiered character are both whining and malding about how they couldn't win. No surprise to me.
Crazy that the two whiniest players are continuing to whine
I don't necessarily agree with IBDW's comment during the match, but a ledge grab limit of 80 is basically not having one. If you do 80 regrabs in an average of 2 second intervals (a generous assumption for puff), that's 2 mins 40 secs, a third of the 8 min timer.
iBDL is your new name tag.
Pros complaining about the ledge grab limit in a series where no game went to time is some little dick energy. Especially coming from Fox players, who have Evade + Spam Laser to at least tack on damage while running away.
Can someone explain to me the "ledge grab limit" ?
I don't know very well all these aspects of melee
If a game goes to time to avoid endless planking there is a rule that allows to check how many time someone grabbed the ledge
The ledge is a very dangerous position to be in in melee unless you got 5 jumps and pounds to greatly help recovering
Camping benefiting nearly only puff, this ruleset is there to keep the game moving and not super fkin stale
Essentially
It's not like hbox times people out. He got a ko.
Alternative title: Fox players acting entitled again.
First he complains about Potemkin grab loops in GGST, then he complains about getting camped out in Finals? No wonder nobody takes him seriously.