I think the answer is in Bioshock 2. In one of the reels, Dr.Lamb explained that early splicing on Eleanor had zero genetic modifications. Because she was conditioned to be a Little sister. Jack was forced to mature rapidly with Adam. Perhaps, his "immunity" is because he is a product of Adam, and the constant consumption of it, won't damage him.
The simplest explanation to answer the question in the video would be that Jack simply doesn't mutate due to all the experiments Suchong did on him, achieving, while not something like a super soldier (at first), if an individual who had the potential to become in Fontaine's ace up his sleeve
I really feel like it's a question of time. Jack was using plasmids and tonics for what, a day or two? The splicers have been using for months or years. I think he just didn't mutate because he wasn't using for long enough.
Jack was already a splicer, due to all the genetic modifications to accelerate his growth and put him through the mental conditioning he needed to become Fontaine's ace in the hole. I think there's probably an argument to be made that part of that would be some sort of cosmetic splicing or surgery to make him appear superficially normal so he could live on the surface for however long he needed to before boarding the plane and returning to Rapture. Since he himself is a "made man", his appearance can be what it needs to be make the con work. Someone who thinks they're normal but looks like a Vigor Junky would experience some pretty catastrophic cognitive dissonance whenever they looked in a mirror. In that context, you could think of the amount of splicing he did throughout the events of the game as basically peanuts compared to what he went through in the years before--the ability to shoot bees is nothing compared to what it must have cost to make a child into a man in the space of months or a year.
my theody is that jacks dna is resistent to adam and his body cant get addicted. He can also use more than one plasmid. I mean he was made to be a soldier so maybe frank fontaine knew if jack became a splicer he coudnt kill ryan
IIRC one of the reasons they dropped Jack being mutated by Plasmids was that you didn't see Jack during the game. So the player wouldn't really know how Jack was being mutated. sm
Thanks for using my suggestion! The vigor junkie tie-in was interesting too that I didn’t actually consider ! I actually forgot they cut him and re used him as the old man winter splicer in BAS. It’s interesting that Ken Levine also considered the gameplay balance of only using just enough plasmids to survive and that using too much would turn you into a full blown splicer. I think it would make sense as like a separate difficulty you could play on, because it would fit the theme of rescuing/harvesting little sisters and how both would yield different amounts of Adam and also different endings, but yeah as a main game mechanic regardless of difficulty, it’s probably for the best they left it on the cutting room floor. Still interesting !
I haven't finished Prey yet but I appreciate how it started to integrate this idea. You can upgrade to become more alien or stay human. I chose to stay human just to be safe so I can't say what happens if you choose the opposite. Im curious as to what a BioShock like this would have looked like but I mean, I can't complain when I still have the best game of all time.
Prey executed this very well. Being able to install as many neuromods as possible, but installing too many typhon ones made you like one of them, or not installing any at all and make the game very challenging. It gave it so much replayability
I like that they cut that. Basically it would just make the game less fun and most people would probably only do it for a let's play or an achievement. Becoming incredibly powerful with plasmids and tonics is fun and rewarding. If you're not going to do that then there's no point in freeing or killing little sisters too. It just seems like you're playing the game without something that makes it unique and interesting.
@@TheBioshockHub Yeah but, I just kinda view it like the challenge in Metro Last Light for the good ending. The one where you have to knock out everyone instead of shooting them. It just feels like you're missing out on so much content.
Dishonored explored the moral dilemma options for game play rather well. I hope they implement those types of elements in Bioshock 4. Dishonored satisfied my Bioshock itch while we waited through Infinite's many delays.
Shout out to Eleanor lullaby/little sister theme from Bioshock 2 in the background, it's so peaceful 🥺(Jack Splicer choices would have been so cool I wish they kept that idea)
It would be interesting to see if someone in the modding community made this happen. Cut content can always be added back in through mods, as proven by the Fallout 4 and Subnautica modding communities and the dozens of restoration mods they've created for everything from lost quests to equipment to cut monsters and even alternate endings based on recovered audio files. The one thing I think would have to be added for this to truly work, however, is an addiction mechanic. You can use one plasmid without much effect, but each one you take after that would cause you to crave more... more Adam, more Eve. And this addiction causes withdrawal symptoms. For example, if you are low on Eve, you begin to get blurred or distorted vision and your hands become shaky,. making it harder to aim. And the more plasmids you inject, the faster and more intense the symptoms become. Also, after you've taken a certain number of plasmids, you begin to get a physical pull towards Little Sisters and sources of plasmids. The option to save Little Sisters becomes harder to click, perhaps even moving around the screen when you try to click it, with the option eventually turning into a second harvest option, making it impossible to avoid killing them. They did a great job at adding side effects to the use of Joy in We Happy Few, so modders could easily get a lot of inspiration from that game's mechanics and adapt it to fit into the Bioshock universe. It would mean that players would have to choose between avoiding plasmids after the first one (and limiting their intake of Eve), going all out and becoming chemically dependent upon Eve and obsessed with gathering Adam to get more plasmids, or taking the dangerous middle road where rationing plasmids and plasmid use is crucial but you get an experience closest to the regular gameplay.
This kind of mechanic is good on paper but bad for a immersive sim game. Or at least with a design of Bioshock where you need to explore somewhat slow and carefully to progress.
Dishonored offers a similar choice; at the beginning of the game, you can choose to accept or reject the Outsider’s powers. There are no ill consequences to using the powers, but you are more likely to spread more chaos by using particularly destructive powers (generating a worse ending). However, you aren’t rewarded beyond a trophy/achievement for using only your own flesh and steel to finish the game. Most people accept the powers because it is simply far more fun that way! I think it’s likely that Irrational didn’t go through with any ill consequences from splicing because they didn’t want to discourage players in any way from using one of the most fun and defining features of Bioshock. As with the binary choice of harvesting the little sisters, they made it that you will still get plenty of Adam without harvesting them. The stage was set for countless moral dilemmas that would reinforce that the path of righteousness would be more difficult. While it is a great concept, it’s not necessarily fun for wider audiences.
It's very strange when you realise that Jack was actually 4 years old, born as an experiment, and was given false memories when really he had little actual past at all.
Since you have 6 plasmid slots and however many tonic slots. They could do it like Plasmids will make you a splicer faster but Tonics will slowly turn into a splicer. However, you have to balance the combination of both. Plasmids are more offensive and Tonic are defensive and give you better physical abilities. Want to tank damage and rely on your weapons? Want to be an offensive powerhouse? Want to play slow and steady? They could even give you warnings when you unlock a certain amount of Plasmid or Tonic slots. "Be careful... you slowly turning yourself into a splicer." "Caution, you a losing your humanity." "Warning you are past the point of no return." However at the end of the game, unless you are a full-blown splicer, Tenebum should make you an offer (based on how many little sisters you saved.) She will give you something that would reverse your condition to a certain degree. Now if you have done a little bit of splicing then she would basically give something to help you fight Fontaine. If you have done a moderate amount of splicing she will offer to reverse your condition back to almost human. If you are close to the point of no return it will reverse you back to a moderate status. The possibilities are limitless.
Maybe it’s that you have a limited number of slots for a reason and those who mutated went beyond that number of plasmids and tonics and that’s why Jack stays human but others didn’t
Thanks for the video. I asked myself that. It never felt optional not to splice up. If I would play the game again though, I would prefer to try without plasmids/vigors. On the other hand, one wouldn't even be able to save the Little Sisters then. It's quite a dilemma indeed.
I always figured Jack's mind control would be a more dominant force over the adam withdraw/effect, he clearly isn't unaffected as he still sees the "ghosts" tho I have been thinking recently, they could have kept plasma morphing and had multiple branching sub endings based on how much you spliced and if you harvested or not, similar to Bioshock 2's many different endings, like there would still be the good and bad ending from the harvesting but whether you'd succumb to being a splicer was dependent on plasmid usage or how many you have equipped at the time... And no I don't think this was cut due to time constraints (for those who claim it was) not that I've ever even heard of such a thing in regard to the first game, far as I know it got the time it needed.
While not forbidding players to try and play (since there are parts where you just can't keep advancing if you don't use your plasmids), I think they could have added something like the upgrades are what slowly start to transform you into a splicer
I’m kinda glad it got cut out of the game. To me I didn’t really see many opportunities in Bioshock 1 to be stealthy. It’s also some type of relief to have a game where you get all these cool powers and abilities without having to worry about getting a bad ending or some type of punishment like dishonored. That’s just my OPINION
There's a theory that it took years for splicers to actually become splicers, which makes sense because Rapture is actually been around for a long time, and Jack he's only used it for a limited amount of time.
It's a shame they didn't keep the concept, it would have been cool if you'd start getting withdrawals from Adam if you kept using it (like your plasmids/tonics becoming weaker until you get Adam), maybe jack would hallucinate more to the point you can't tell if some enemies are real or just a hallucination, would make Bioshock have more replayability too. Could also allow for multiple endings like in BioShock 2. e.g. becoming a splicer and getting the good ending, losing yourself to Adam and becoming another splicer that lurks around in Rapture. Plus Atlas/Fontain, Tenenbaum and Ryan could have unique dialogue for the player's choices.
Maybe it is just my play style, but I found the Plasmids that allow you to burn, electrocute or freeze enemies to be relatively worthless towards the end of the game (Even upgraded). I would argue that the bulk of the final fight can be achieved with upgraded weapons, specifically the chemical thrower, but any other weapon can work in the right hands. Anyway that in it self is the work around for fighting the final boss, making it so the weapons upgrades and custom ammo etc are the plasmid-free way forward. Most Plasmids are junk except the ones that allow you to become devastating with the wrench or allow you to hide better.
I'm glad they did cut it since Bioshock 1's big twist, it's good ending, and Bioshock 2 wouldn't have existed if they'd gone with that concept. Jack was sold to Tenenbaum and Suchong when he was nothing more than a fertilized egg. They used ADAM on him during his entire "test tube" gestation, infancy, and accelerated childhood. If all that exposure to ADAM hadn't given him SOME kind of immunity or resistance to the harmful effects there would have been no hope for the little sisters or Eleanor since they weren't exposed to ADAM until age 5 at the earliest and 11 at the latest. In the second game Gil Alexander makes it clear that it wasn't the ADAM that made the Big Sisters insane, it was the mental conditioning and abuse. The ADAM just made them grow very tall, strong, athletic, and extremely powerful with plasmids. And honestly, The ADAM exposure is likely what made Jack quickly heal any injuries he got in the plane crash that no one else survived. Once he stepped out of the water he was fine, not scratch on him. He very likely has a similar form of healing to the Little and Big Sisters.
While it would definingly be an interesting addition as a concept to me it would also be one that would make the game less interesting for me to play since the knowledge of it would discourage me form using any tonics at all, but that would also make the game way harder than someone who is new to bioshock would be able to enjoy (at least in my case) and as someone who doesn't tend to like replaying games it would overall have made me less likely to play through the whole game.
Wasn't Jack made/grown in Rapture with adam? And I'm pretty sure it takes years to actually mutate that much. He lived a normal live before and after Rapture, so I imagine he was just fine with only the bit of exposure long ago, which he adapted to and came back to Rapture more resistant to it. He didn't stay very long the 2nd time either, probably minimizing the effects of gene splicing since he goes on to live normally after.
Your right if they drink more and more Vigors or Plasmids that will would become mutated. They need be more careful you don't want to became mutated, that was very powerful and dangerous. Please remind human and keep yourself.
Splicing doesn't produce negative effects right away, and the whole game takes place over the span of what's likely less than 24 hours. That's why plasmids became popular long before people realized what they'd done to themselves. In the long term, remember Tennebaum said you "need more and more ADAM to keep back the tide." This can only mean ADAM can repair the same damage it causes. So with access to the all ADAM in Rapture, Jack would not have to worry about ADAM sickness.
Is it 'A Plague Tale' that uses a similar story-telling mechanic, where if you use the mask you get special powers, but it effects the story? The idea of a mutated Jack seems cool, but I think the developers might have heard that other studios were exploring similar mechanics and decided against it, for fear that (1) it would take too long to implement, which would lead to (2) accusations of copy-catting other games that might (3) cause their game to be forgotten.
My original guess as to why jack did not mutate is one of two theories. Theory 1 is that the story of bioshock one only takes place over the corse of a few days there for jack likely did not have enough time to show any major signs of splicer mutations. While theory number 2 is sense jack him self is only a few years old its possible simular to little sisters jack shared in a sense a form of resistance to splicer mutation which could mean children in general have a form of resistance to its altering effects. given this is a massive streatch and my guess is theory 1 is correct sense most splicers were around during the fall of rapture during its revolution between fontain/atlus and ryan so they have had a long time to actually have the negitive effects really start to show and the more crazy effects did not take place till some time has passed after jack left rapture namely the drastically diffrent spider splicers and the brute splicers. Given this could just be hardware limitations and ultimately they always intended for more unique splicers to be a thing but lacked the actual development time or hardware to actually add these forms of splicers to bioshock 1. Its also possible jack is uniquely resistant to plasmids altering effects via his very inseption. fontain heavily valued plasmids so having his test tube sleeper agent be altered to use plasmids without the draw backs was a very intended effect that way he would not subcome to addiction simular to most average humans and would resist the effects giving him the ability to use multiple plasmids and hypos without showing any deformities. Its also very possible that he actually did have some deformities and that lack of development and the 1st person perspective made showing such changes not worth it in the long run sense plasmids them selves already had a very visible change depending on the plasmids you use like hive holes with the swarm plasmid or pulsating glowing vains with the electric plasmid. My head canon is honestly he just was not there long enough to show any legit signs of plasmid/splicer mutations seeing as most all plasmids even by the end of 2 were made to be commecially used so likely the altering effects would take weeks or months to really show and my guess jack was at most there for a week or a few days. Once he leaves rapture his supply of hypos would be completely gone and same with adam or the equipment to change or swap plasmids so likely the good ending forced him to go cold turkey one way or the other.
given that you're experiencing the events in real time, how much mutation do you think would happen over a couple nights? nobody becomes a strung out junkie over night.
What went therw my mind rember when elizabeth came too rapture and i comstock and they had eve powers im shock they never turn into spilcers too kind of like jack
I think it's just because he hasn't been using plasmids for very long, all the Splicers you come across have been splicing for years, imagine all of the plasmids and tonics Jack accumulates throughout the game, the average splicer probably has done that like 100 times over.
I assume like many other people seems to think, Jack was genetically altered from fetus state to be different. firstly he grows faster and dies of old age really fast, like? from the looks of it? at the end cut scene in the good ending Jack dies around when the little sisters he adapted became around??? I would say?? 30? maybe 40? like that's really fast to die of old age. so I'm assuming the alterations done to him made him grow and mature faster than a normal human and also either on purpose or accidentally made him immune to becoming a splice because his genetics is already made to withstandard since the Beginning compared to a normal person
@@TheBioshockHub I don't think so. In the good ending, he died when his daughters (or their hands) seemed to be around 50 so it's safe to say Jack lived at least until the 2000s.
Interesting video Eric i love these videos your an expert on Bioshock what you dont know isnt worth knowing ps ive got the same sweater as Jacks in my wardrobe its called an arron jumper ive had it years lol 😄❤
So wouldnt he be a splicer? He is a genetic test subject same as delta. It makes sense he didnt mutate as he isn't human fully. Frank would have made sure he couldnt mutate to fight ryan full force
Yeah that would have made Bioshock much better if they kept however I'm not very fond of the whole idea of you get to sneak around throughout the entire game and be a goody two-shoes to get the good I don't like that guns and shooting should never determine on the ending but the choices is where the determination of the end is chosen for you and a mutated Jack would be great and lastly we did technically we did get a big daddy that uses a plasmid through the alpha series like subject Delta except the only difference is is they had a radius explosion and that was always incinerate or electric bolt and the freezing one
my one complaint about bioshock is that it really limits your playstyle in comparison to levines previous game system shock 2. in that game you could invest your points into standard weapons, or you could use them to become a space wizard. you could even invest into just speed, strength and stamina and run past encounters or bash enemies to shreds. the variety of gameplay options in ss2 is why i just barely prefer it to bioshock, since in bioshock you pretty much are forced into a hybrid magic/gun build, and while theres alot of variation in plasmid choice, youre still just using guns and plasmids either way
That's a fair criticism. As a side note, would you recommend I play the System Shock remake that's coming out? Unfortunately, I was never able to play the original.
@@TheBioshockHub absolutely, even i cant play the original system shock, but the remake looks absolutely phenomenal. theres a demo out now that you can try if youd like which is simultaneously very faithful to the original game while being much more accessible to the modern gamer, plus it has a gorgeous visual style to it with all the textures being pixelated but only if you really pay attention. it also runs like a dream
Curious if the developers wanted to go back and remake the games again and add what they took out the first time and just rebrand it. We could have the best of both worlds. 🤔
@@TheBioshockHub I didn't know how much was cut until last month actually and when I seen how much we lost out on I was sad 🤣. It looked a little more open world and seemed to offer more choices in combat. I'd be fine with some of it being brought in through dlc even. One can wish.
Yeah i always wonder too why jack never turn into a spilcer maybe him being a mian guy of the game he persay good i know theres a choice if you can harvest little sisters for more but your a villian your self but i peafre just resucing them even bural at sea at the end the good ending is canon but its crazy tough how many pepole in rapture are spilcers or big daddys makes them go insane and they look really ugly and nasty i always wonder too if atlas was a spilcer in the 1st game he did look like a splicer of freedy kuger but bural at sea he look fine but he was still a pyocpath even at the end frank fontian turn into some glod half naked man lol
Hello and ı have a video idea. I have a screen cancer in my computer left up corner. So ı finished bioshock games without seeing how much hp or med kit or eve ı have. Try beating the game in hard mode without seeing your healt and eve bar.
Why would they do this you rarely see yourself. Maybe if it was a third person shooter that would be different. Just doesn’t make sense seeing you barely know yourself.
@@TheBioshockHub It is really interesting but didn’t work for the game. I think the sisters moral dilemma worked so well because you could see there emotion. But jack doesn’t really have any character which is cool because you can place yourself in him.
I think it's either because Jack is a bioengineered superbaby and has a different kind of tolerance to ADAM compared to most, or because Splicers are product of years if not decades of splicing. As Jack splices only things that make it easier for him to survive, the Splicers most likely have spliced everything they got their hands on no matter what plasmids and tonics they were into a big mess in their bodies and as we know, there was probably a plasmid/tonic for *everything* Kind of makes me think of those kinds of addicts irl that would end up consuming certain often very dangerous things just because they included that certain thing they just *had* to have even if it was a small amount. Anyway, I have no idea what the timeframe for the first Bioshock is as there is absolutely no way to tell time but probably something like a week or more? I don't think Jack would mutate that much that fast in such a short time unless he literally bathed and breathed ADAM. You could say the amounts he splices are so small for each plasmid/tonic at a time and there is a lot time between the doses, he might not even have developed an addiction to it either. Maybe, I have no idea. Or maybe Jack's addiction shows in the players craving, curiosity and the need to get more ADAM to see what else is there and how powerful can they get. Especially the ones that chose to harvest on their first playthrough
Here's the thing: I know it says in the loading screen or manual that Splicers are the product of "overuse" of ADAM, but if you think about the science how many Plasmids you take shouldn't matter. Once you take one Plasmid, you'd replaced all the cells in your body with the "unstable" stem versions. So if you take one you might as well take 100. However, regardless, it takes time for the side effects to manifest. That's why plasmids became popular at first.
I mean........ Jack's in Rapture for what....... a day? Maybe 2 with all the knockouts. THAT is why. He didn't spend months or years juicing up. Fontaine has been in rapture for many years, and at the end pumps himself full of all the Adam he can get his hands on. Jack merely didn't have enough exposure. It's really that simple. Time is THE primary factor in an addiction. Something done over and over, over an extended amount of time. If you smoke a bunch of meth in 1 day and then never again, you're not an addict. This is ontop of the fact that Jack is indeed a sort of test-tube baby, basically. Experimented and worked on, you can just chalk anything up to his genes. But in reality, your answer is: time. Also, you say "nothing happens" like we actually know what happens to Jack at the end, or what he looks like, when we don't. We only ever see his arms and back, and in the good ending, him clearly dying in a hospital. How do we KNOW he WASN'T actually affected.....?
I think the answer is in Bioshock 2. In one of the reels, Dr.Lamb explained that early splicing on Eleanor had zero genetic modifications. Because she was conditioned to be a Little sister. Jack was forced to mature rapidly with Adam. Perhaps, his "immunity" is because he is a product of Adam, and the constant consumption of it, won't damage him.
The simplest explanation to answer the question in the video would be that Jack simply doesn't mutate due to all the experiments Suchong did on him, achieving, while not something like a super soldier (at first), if an individual who had the potential to become in Fontaine's ace up his sleeve
It was nuts what Fontaine turned into at the end of BioShock 1, he turned into an absolute unit lol.
He literally became atlas from all the statues
A big, naked unit lmao.
Zyzz music kicks in hard.
And still got his shit rocked hahah.
@@JonnyBoi12 That is an understatement lmao.
I always figured he was engineered not to mutate as quickly or as intensely as an average person.
That could've been the case as well. Even though it's a very interesting concept, I'm glad it didn't make it into the final game.
Yess that could also be it, either the mind control or his conditioning, which also might have been done with a specialized tonic
@@imonke5303 That's true. There could've even been some sort of other fail safe, like a code yellow.
I really feel like it's a question of time. Jack was using plasmids and tonics for what, a day or two? The splicers have been using for months or years. I think he just didn't mutate because he wasn't using for long enough.
Clear rapture in a day or two. This man must be a beast
I'm somewhat glad Jack didn't turn into a splicer. The poor guy's been through enough already :(
I agree. I was just always interested in this specific topic / concept.
I mean, up until Rapture, his entire life was a lie. So I'm just glad he didn't turn into a splicer
Jack was already a splicer, due to all the genetic modifications to accelerate his growth and put him through the mental conditioning he needed to become Fontaine's ace in the hole. I think there's probably an argument to be made that part of that would be some sort of cosmetic splicing or surgery to make him appear superficially normal so he could live on the surface for however long he needed to before boarding the plane and returning to Rapture. Since he himself is a "made man", his appearance can be what it needs to be make the con work. Someone who thinks they're normal but looks like a Vigor Junky would experience some pretty catastrophic cognitive dissonance whenever they looked in a mirror. In that context, you could think of the amount of splicing he did throughout the events of the game as basically peanuts compared to what he went through in the years before--the ability to shoot bees is nothing compared to what it must have cost to make a child into a man in the space of months or a year.
I imagine Delta underneath his suit is what Jack would've looked like if he kept splicing
That's a definite possibility.
my theody is that jacks dna is resistent to adam and his body cant get addicted. He can also use more than one plasmid. I mean he was made to be a soldier so maybe frank fontaine knew if jack became a splicer he coudnt kill ryan
That's definitely a fair point. Hopefully that would've been the case.
That's what I was thinking
IIRC one of the reasons they dropped Jack being mutated by Plasmids was that you didn't see Jack during the game. So the player wouldn't really know how Jack was being mutated. sm
Thanks for using my suggestion! The vigor junkie tie-in was interesting too that I didn’t actually consider ! I actually forgot they cut him and re used him as the old man winter splicer in BAS. It’s interesting that Ken Levine also considered the gameplay balance of only using just enough plasmids to survive and that using too much would turn you into a full blown splicer. I think it would make sense as like a separate difficulty you could play on, because it would fit the theme of rescuing/harvesting little sisters and how both would yield different amounts of Adam and also different endings, but yeah as a main game mechanic regardless of difficulty, it’s probably for the best they left it on the cutting room floor. Still interesting !
You're welcome! As soon as I saw your comment, the gears in my head started to turn.
The short of it is:
Splicing is months even years of ADAM abuse and Jack was in Rapture I'm assuming a span of a few days maybe a week?
Another good abandoned idea. That's why they should do a Bioshock remake and add some this cut content. 👍🏻
There's so many dude, it's mind blowing.
I haven't finished Prey yet but I appreciate how it started to integrate this idea. You can upgrade to become more alien or stay human. I chose to stay human just to be safe so I can't say what happens if you choose the opposite. Im curious as to what a BioShock like this would have looked like but I mean, I can't complain when I still have the best game of all time.
Well, if you become more alien, turrets attack you since they now view you as a threat (alien)
Prey executed this very well. Being able to install as many neuromods as possible, but installing too many typhon ones made you like one of them, or not installing any at all and make the game very challenging. It gave it so much replayability
I definitely need to give Prey another shot. I just remember getting extremely frustrated the last time I played.
@TheBioshockHub do it!! Gameplay wise It's definitely a more modern bioshock.
Too bad Prey don't have too much of attention and I don't get why is it so.
I like that they cut that. Basically it would just make the game less fun and most people would probably only do it for a let's play or an achievement. Becoming incredibly powerful with plasmids and tonics is fun and rewarding. If you're not going to do that then there's no point in freeing or killing little sisters too. It just seems like you're playing the game without something that makes it unique and interesting.
True, but it would've been a decent challenge run as well.
@@TheBioshockHub Yeah but, I just kinda view it like the challenge in Metro Last Light for the good ending. The one where you have to knock out everyone instead of shooting them. It just feels like you're missing out on so much content.
To put it simply: Plot armor
Dishonored explored the moral dilemma options for game play rather well. I hope they implement those types of elements in Bioshock 4. Dishonored satisfied my Bioshock itch while we waited through Infinite's many delays.
Dishonored is such an underrated series in my opinion.
Shout out to Eleanor lullaby/little sister theme from Bioshock 2 in the background, it's so peaceful 🥺(Jack Splicer choices would have been so cool I wish they kept that idea)
It's my favorite track from any of the Bioshock OSTs. That and How She Sees the World.
Seeing jack mutate overtime would be an interesting game mechanic.
It would be interesting to see if someone in the modding community made this happen. Cut content can always be added back in through mods, as proven by the Fallout 4 and Subnautica modding communities and the dozens of restoration mods they've created for everything from lost quests to equipment to cut monsters and even alternate endings based on recovered audio files.
The one thing I think would have to be added for this to truly work, however, is an addiction mechanic. You can use one plasmid without much effect, but each one you take after that would cause you to crave more... more Adam, more Eve. And this addiction causes withdrawal symptoms. For example, if you are low on Eve, you begin to get blurred or distorted vision and your hands become shaky,. making it harder to aim. And the more plasmids you inject, the faster and more intense the symptoms become. Also, after you've taken a certain number of plasmids, you begin to get a physical pull towards Little Sisters and sources of plasmids. The option to save Little Sisters becomes harder to click, perhaps even moving around the screen when you try to click it, with the option eventually turning into a second harvest option, making it impossible to avoid killing them.
They did a great job at adding side effects to the use of Joy in We Happy Few, so modders could easily get a lot of inspiration from that game's mechanics and adapt it to fit into the Bioshock universe. It would mean that players would have to choose between avoiding plasmids after the first one (and limiting their intake of Eve), going all out and becoming chemically dependent upon Eve and obsessed with gathering Adam to get more plasmids, or taking the dangerous middle road where rationing plasmids and plasmid use is crucial but you get an experience closest to the regular gameplay.
Very well said my friend! Thank you for this.
This kind of mechanic is good on paper but bad for a immersive sim game. Or at least with a design of Bioshock where you need to explore somewhat slow and carefully to progress.
Dishonored offers a similar choice; at the beginning of the game, you can choose to accept or reject the Outsider’s powers. There are no ill consequences to using the powers, but you are more likely to spread more chaos by using particularly destructive powers (generating a worse ending). However, you aren’t rewarded beyond a trophy/achievement for using only your own flesh and steel to finish the game. Most people accept the powers because it is simply far more fun that way! I think it’s likely that Irrational didn’t go through with any ill consequences from splicing because they didn’t want to discourage players in any way from using one of the most fun and defining features of Bioshock. As with the binary choice of harvesting the little sisters, they made it that you will still get plenty of Adam without harvesting them. The stage was set for countless moral dilemmas that would reinforce that the path of righteousness would be more difficult. While it is a great concept, it’s not necessarily fun for wider audiences.
You know, I completely forgot about that in Dishonored. It's been way too long since I've played it.
That's why Bioshock is good: Not for everyone and keeps the casuals out.
Splicers used Adam for long time, Jack on the other hand spend like what? A day? Two days in Rapture?
What if he was but his perspection was looking at himself as if he was normal? later met porter and tenenbaum going back to his old self?
Ohh, I like that.
It's very strange when you realise that Jack was actually 4 years old, born as an experiment, and was given false memories when really he had little actual past at all.
Yup! Super toddler lol
They kinda did the vigor junkie character design with slate when he drank all the shock jockey. (in bioshock infinite)
Basically necause he wasn't barely enoughtime taking it.
Since you have 6 plasmid slots and however many tonic slots. They could do it like Plasmids will make you a splicer faster but Tonics will slowly turn into a splicer. However, you have to balance the combination of both. Plasmids are more offensive and Tonic are defensive and give you better physical abilities. Want to tank damage and rely on your weapons? Want to be an offensive powerhouse? Want to play slow and steady?
They could even give you warnings when you unlock a certain amount of Plasmid or Tonic slots. "Be careful... you slowly turning yourself into a splicer." "Caution, you a losing your humanity." "Warning you are past the point of no return." However at the end of the game, unless you are a full-blown splicer, Tenebum should make you an offer (based on how many little sisters you saved.) She will give you something that would reverse your condition to a certain degree. Now if you have done a little bit of splicing then she would basically give something to help you fight Fontaine. If you have done a moderate amount of splicing she will offer to reverse your condition back to almost human. If you are close to the point of no return it will reverse you back to a moderate status.
The possibilities are limitless.
That's very well said!
That makes so much sense, that would be crazy AF . Like seeing your hands evolve every time using plasmids!!!
I know right?
Maybe it’s that you have a limited number of slots for a reason and those who mutated went beyond that number of plasmids and tonics and that’s why Jack stays human but others didn’t
Thanks for the video. I asked myself that. It never felt optional not to splice up.
If I would play the game again though, I would prefer to try without plasmids/vigors.
On the other hand, one wouldn't even be able to save the Little Sisters then. It's quite a dilemma indeed.
You're very welcome!
I always figured Jack's mind control would be a more dominant force over the adam withdraw/effect, he clearly isn't unaffected as he still sees the "ghosts" tho I have been thinking recently, they could have kept plasma morphing and had multiple branching sub endings based on how much you spliced and if you harvested or not, similar to Bioshock 2's many different endings, like there would still be the good and bad ending from the harvesting but whether you'd succumb to being a splicer was dependent on plasmid usage or how many you have equipped at the time...
And no I don't think this was cut due to time constraints (for those who claim it was) not that I've ever even heard of such a thing in regard to the first game, far as I know it got the time it needed.
That's a really good & fair point.
I think for the mechanics to work, it could be like what was done in the 2017 Prey game and maybe even a bit of Dishonored:
While not forbidding players to try and play (since there are parts where you just can't keep advancing if you don't use your plasmids), I think they could have added something like the upgrades are what slowly start to transform you into a splicer
A simple headcanon:
"Would you kindly not mutate into one of those splicer freaks."
It would have been so sick if Jack's appearance changed according to the plasmids and tonics you unlock, assuming we would have a way to see him
I’m kinda glad it got cut out of the game. To me I didn’t really see many opportunities in Bioshock 1 to be stealthy. It’s also some type of relief to have a game where you get all these cool powers and abilities without having to worry about getting a bad ending or some type of punishment like dishonored. That’s just my OPINION
It would be cool that in the next bioshock we get cosmetics depending of how splice we r, like permanent claws or bulging muscles or extra appendages
I agree.
Maybe the Vita-Chambers would fix any mutations caused by his plasmid use.
Possibly, though I haven't read anything on that.
@TheBioshockHub Me neither, but seeing as how the Vita-Chamber renews, it might work to heal the user from anything.
What an interesting concept! Cool video, I didn't know nothing about it
I just figured that Jack was new to splicing.
I imagined it would take a year or two of constant splicing to become that horribly mutated.
If you turned into one of these things, it seems fitting you would stay in Rapture as King, the surface would never have you.
There's a theory that it took years for splicers to actually become splicers, which makes sense because Rapture is actually been around for a long time, and Jack he's only used it for a limited amount of time.
It's a shame they didn't keep the concept, it would have been cool if you'd start getting withdrawals from Adam if you kept using it (like your plasmids/tonics becoming weaker until you get Adam), maybe jack would hallucinate more to the point you can't tell if some enemies are real or just a hallucination, would make Bioshock have more replayability too. Could also allow for multiple endings like in BioShock 2. e.g. becoming a splicer and getting the good ending, losing yourself to Adam and becoming another splicer that lurks around in Rapture. Plus Atlas/Fontain, Tenenbaum and Ryan could have unique dialogue for the player's choices.
That would honestly be a brilliant mechanic for a potential remake/reimagining of Bioshock.
If I was writing the BioShock movie, I would a hundo percent include that concept!
Agreed!!
It really would be, so many concepts they could add if they remade Bioshock, shame most of the interesting ones, were cut out for budget/time etc.
Maybe it is just my play style, but I found the Plasmids that allow you to burn, electrocute or freeze enemies to be relatively worthless towards the end of the game (Even upgraded). I would argue that the bulk of the final fight can be achieved with upgraded weapons, specifically the chemical thrower, but any other weapon can work in the right hands. Anyway that in it self is the work around for fighting the final boss, making it so the weapons upgrades and custom ammo etc are the plasmid-free way forward. Most Plasmids are junk except the ones that allow you to become devastating with the wrench or allow you to hide better.
Time to go balls to the walls! * Drinks crap ton of shock jockey, old man winter & small touch of bucking bronco *
LEROY JENKINS!
I'm glad they did cut it since Bioshock 1's big twist, it's good ending, and Bioshock 2 wouldn't have existed if they'd gone with that concept. Jack was sold to Tenenbaum and Suchong when he was nothing more than a fertilized egg. They used ADAM on him during his entire "test tube" gestation, infancy, and accelerated childhood. If all that exposure to ADAM hadn't given him SOME kind of immunity or resistance to the harmful effects there would have been no hope for the little sisters or Eleanor since they weren't exposed to ADAM until age 5 at the earliest and 11 at the latest.
In the second game Gil Alexander makes it clear that it wasn't the ADAM that made the Big Sisters insane, it was the mental conditioning and abuse. The ADAM just made them grow very tall, strong, athletic, and extremely powerful with plasmids. And honestly, The ADAM exposure is likely what made Jack quickly heal any injuries he got in the plane crash that no one else survived. Once he stepped out of the water he was fine, not scratch on him. He very likely has a similar form of healing to the Little and Big Sisters.
jack's built different choom
While it would definingly be an interesting addition as a concept to me it would also be one that would make the game less interesting for me to play since the knowledge of it would discourage me form using any tonics at all, but that would also make the game way harder than someone who is new to bioshock would be able to enjoy (at least in my case) and as someone who doesn't tend to like replaying games it would overall have made me less likely to play through the whole game.
You make cool videos, keep it up!
Wasn't Jack made/grown in Rapture with adam? And I'm pretty sure it takes years to actually mutate that much. He lived a normal live before and after Rapture, so I imagine he was just fine with only the bit of exposure long ago, which he adapted to and came back to Rapture more resistant to it. He didn't stay very long the 2nd time either, probably minimizing the effects of gene splicing since he goes on to live normally after.
They shoud have added drug that slows splicer insanity so that the cities descent made a lil more sense
Your right if they drink more and more Vigors or Plasmids that will would become mutated. They need be more careful you don't want to became mutated, that was very powerful and dangerous. Please remind human and keep yourself.
Splicing doesn't produce negative effects right away, and the whole game takes place over the span of what's likely less than 24 hours. That's why plasmids became popular long before people realized what they'd done to themselves.
In the long term, remember Tennebaum said you "need more and more ADAM to keep back the tide." This can only mean ADAM can repair the same damage it causes. So with access to the all ADAM in Rapture, Jack would not have to worry about ADAM sickness.
when mom and dad put on that plane.. you do the rest lol.
Take matters into your own hands I suppose lol
@@TheBioshockHub lol
New here I'm a huge Bioshock nerd great vid!🤓
I just randomly thought about this and boom, someone just made a video on it :D
Hope you liked it! Part 2 will be out soon!
Is it 'A Plague Tale' that uses a similar story-telling mechanic, where if you use the mask you get special powers, but it effects the story? The idea of a mutated Jack seems cool, but I think the developers might have heard that other studios were exploring similar mechanics and decided against it, for fear that (1) it would take too long to implement, which would lead to (2) accusations of copy-catting other games that might (3) cause their game to be forgotten.
Good question
Thank you!
It’s the same reason V didn’t get cyber psychosis. The player.
Man, that would have been insane.
Completely agree
I’m kinda glad they didn’t add a moral decision to using plasmids
Me too, though the thought of it is super interesting.
Im glad it was cut. Feeling like having to play the game without plasmids would have sucked imo
It does make for a rather fun challenge run!
My original guess as to why jack did not mutate is one of two theories. Theory 1 is that the story of bioshock one only takes place over the corse of a few days there for jack likely did not have enough time to show any major signs of splicer mutations. While theory number 2 is sense jack him self is only a few years old its possible simular to little sisters jack shared in a sense a form of resistance to splicer mutation which could mean children in general have a form of resistance to its altering effects. given this is a massive streatch and my guess is theory 1 is correct sense most splicers were around during the fall of rapture during its revolution between fontain/atlus and ryan so they have had a long time to actually have the negitive effects really start to show and the more crazy effects did not take place till some time has passed after jack left rapture namely the drastically diffrent spider splicers and the brute splicers. Given this could just be hardware limitations and ultimately they always intended for more unique splicers to be a thing but lacked the actual development time or hardware to actually add these forms of splicers to bioshock 1. Its also possible jack is uniquely resistant to plasmids altering effects via his very inseption. fontain heavily valued plasmids so having his test tube sleeper agent be altered to use plasmids without the draw backs was a very intended effect that way he would not subcome to addiction simular to most average humans and would resist the effects giving him the ability to use multiple plasmids and hypos without showing any deformities. Its also very possible that he actually did have some deformities and that lack of development and the 1st person perspective made showing such changes not worth it in the long run sense plasmids them selves already had a very visible change depending on the plasmids you use like hive holes with the swarm plasmid or pulsating glowing vains with the electric plasmid. My head canon is honestly he just was not there long enough to show any legit signs of plasmid/splicer mutations seeing as most all plasmids even by the end of 2 were made to be commecially used so likely the altering effects would take weeks or months to really show and my guess jack was at most there for a week or a few days. Once he leaves rapture his supply of hypos would be completely gone and same with adam or the equipment to change or swap plasmids so likely the good ending forced him to go cold turkey one way or the other.
Both are excellent theories.
So pretty much what the game prey did but with less visible mutations
given that you're experiencing the events in real time, how much mutation do you think would happen over a couple nights? nobody becomes a strung out junkie over night.
It would honestly depend on the ADAM intake I suppose... maybe a week or so roughly?
I would have like it. It would have fit the theme of choice.
I think I would've like it too.
What went therw my mind rember when elizabeth came too rapture and i comstock and they had eve powers im shock they never turn into spilcers too kind of like jack
I think it's just because he hasn't been using plasmids for very long, all the Splicers you come across have been splicing for years, imagine all of the plasmids and tonics Jack accumulates throughout the game, the average splicer probably has done that like 100 times over.
This sounds alot like what they did with the new prey game.
Jack's built different
He's a UNIT!
Great video !
Thank you Justin!
Those Ryan Gene's son! Lol
He's built different.
I assume like many other people seems to think, Jack was genetically altered from fetus state to be different.
firstly he grows faster and dies of old age really fast, like? from the looks of it? at the end cut scene in the good ending Jack dies around when the little sisters he adapted became around??? I would say?? 30? maybe 40? like that's really fast to die of old age.
so I'm assuming the alterations done to him made him grow and mature faster than a normal human and also either on purpose or accidentally made him immune to becoming a splice because his genetics is already made to withstandard since the Beginning compared to a normal person
He was. During the game itself, he's only like 3 or 4 with the body of a 18-20 year old. It wouldn't surprise me if he died around 40-50 ish.
@@TheBioshockHub I don't think so. In the good ending, he died when his daughters (or their hands) seemed to be around 50 so it's safe to say Jack lived at least until the 2000s.
Interesting video Eric i love these videos your an expert on Bioshock what you dont know isnt worth knowing ps ive got the same sweater as Jacks in my wardrobe its called an arron jumper ive had it years lol 😄❤
Really? I should buy one and rock a cosplay of Jack some time.
@@TheBioshockHub now that would be cool Eric lol 😎😃👍
@@TheBioshockHubthey are actualy called aran wool sweater or jumpers as we call them 😄👍
Also like the music 👍
So wouldnt he be a splicer? He is a genetic test subject same as delta. It makes sense he didnt mutate as he isn't human fully. Frank would have made sure he couldnt mutate to fight ryan full force
Yeah that would have made Bioshock much better if they kept however I'm not very fond of the whole idea of you get to sneak around throughout the entire game and be a goody two-shoes to get the good I don't like that guns and shooting should never determine on the ending but the choices is where the determination of the end is chosen for you and a mutated Jack would be great and lastly we did technically we did get a big daddy that uses a plasmid through the alpha series like subject Delta except the only difference is is they had a radius explosion and that was always incinerate or electric bolt and the freezing one
Hey, stealth isn't for everyone. It's okay!
my one complaint about bioshock is that it really limits your playstyle in comparison to levines previous game system shock 2. in that game you could invest your points into standard weapons, or you could use them to become a space wizard. you could even invest into just speed, strength and stamina and run past encounters or bash enemies to shreds. the variety of gameplay options in ss2 is why i just barely prefer it to bioshock, since in bioshock you pretty much are forced into a hybrid magic/gun build, and while theres alot of variation in plasmid choice, youre still just using guns and plasmids either way
That's a fair criticism. As a side note, would you recommend I play the System Shock remake that's coming out? Unfortunately, I was never able to play the original.
@@TheBioshockHub absolutely, even i cant play the original system shock, but the remake looks absolutely phenomenal. theres a demo out now that you can try if youd like which is simultaneously very faithful to the original game while being much more accessible to the modern gamer, plus it has a gorgeous visual style to it with all the textures being pixelated but only if you really pay attention. it also runs like a dream
Whats the soundtrack to this video it sounds beautiful i need it so bad
The song is Eleanor's Lullaby, it's from the Bioshock 2 soundtrack!
@@TheBioshockHub 👍
Curious if the developers wanted to go back and remake the games again and add what they took out the first time and just rebrand it. We could have the best of both worlds. 🤔
God, I wish. Could you imagine Infinite with all of the removed content?
@@TheBioshockHub I didn't know how much was cut until last month actually and when I seen how much we lost out on I was sad 🤣. It looked a little more open world and seemed to offer more choices in combat. I'd be fine with some of it being brought in through dlc even. One can wish.
Yeah i always wonder too why jack never turn into a spilcer maybe him being a mian guy of the game he persay good i know theres a choice if you can harvest little sisters for more but your a villian your self but i peafre just resucing them even bural at sea at the end the good ending is canon but its crazy tough how many pepole in rapture are spilcers or big daddys makes them go insane and they look really ugly and nasty i always wonder too if atlas was a spilcer in the 1st game he did look like a splicer of freedy kuger but bural at sea he look fine but he was still a pyocpath even at the end frank fontian turn into some glod half naked man lol
Jack should have worn a trench coat and Fedora over his sweater. Ps what outfit do you think would make Jack more iconic?
A sweater vest, cargo shorts & sandals lol.
6:41 cmon dude
i love it
I genuinely hate what infinite did to the story lin so much
I find it ironic that theyre called Vigor means physical strength and good health and there a junkie ironic is it😏
Hello and ı have a video idea. I have a screen cancer in my computer left up corner. So ı finished bioshock games without seeing how much hp or med kit or eve ı have. Try beating the game in hard mode without seeing your healt and eve bar.
Why would they do this you rarely see yourself. Maybe if it was a third person shooter that would be different. Just doesn’t make sense seeing you barely know yourself.
It was a concept that I thought was interesting. Just wanted to see what everyone else thought about it.
@@TheBioshockHub It is really interesting but didn’t work for the game. I think the sisters moral dilemma worked so well because you could see there emotion. But jack doesn’t really have any character which is cool because you can place yourself in him.
I think it's either because Jack is a bioengineered superbaby and has a different kind of tolerance to ADAM compared to most, or because Splicers are product of years if not decades of splicing. As Jack splices only things that make it easier for him to survive, the Splicers most likely have spliced everything they got their hands on no matter what plasmids and tonics they were into a big mess in their bodies and as we know, there was probably a plasmid/tonic for *everything*
Kind of makes me think of those kinds of addicts irl that would end up consuming certain often very dangerous things just because they included that certain thing they just *had* to have even if it was a small amount.
Anyway, I have no idea what the timeframe for the first Bioshock is as there is absolutely no way to tell time but probably something like a week or more? I don't think Jack would mutate that much that fast in such a short time unless he literally bathed and breathed ADAM. You could say the amounts he splices are so small for each plasmid/tonic at a time and there is a lot time between the doses, he might not even have developed an addiction to it either. Maybe, I have no idea. Or maybe Jack's addiction shows in the players craving, curiosity and the need to get more ADAM to see what else is there and how powerful can they get. Especially the ones that chose to harvest on their first playthrough
Here's the thing: I know it says in the loading screen or manual that Splicers are the product of "overuse" of ADAM, but if you think about the science how many Plasmids you take shouldn't matter. Once you take one Plasmid, you'd replaced all the cells in your body with the "unstable" stem versions. So if you take one you might as well take 100.
However, regardless, it takes time for the side effects to manifest. That's why plasmids became popular at first.
W
BigW
You repeat yourself too much. "It would have completely change the game"
I mean........ Jack's in Rapture for what....... a day? Maybe 2 with all the knockouts. THAT is why. He didn't spend months or years juicing up. Fontaine has been in rapture for many years, and at the end pumps himself full of all the Adam he can get his hands on. Jack merely didn't have enough exposure. It's really that simple. Time is THE primary factor in an addiction. Something done over and over, over an extended amount of time. If you smoke a bunch of meth in 1 day and then never again, you're not an addict. This is ontop of the fact that Jack is indeed a sort of test-tube baby, basically. Experimented and worked on, you can just chalk anything up to his genes. But in reality, your answer is: time. Also, you say "nothing happens" like we actually know what happens to Jack at the end, or what he looks like, when we don't. We only ever see his arms and back, and in the good ending, him clearly dying in a hospital. How do we KNOW he WASN'T actually affected.....?
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