Harley lost me when they dumped the air cooled Sportster. I didn't want another Harley. Sportsters were my favorite bike of all time. That German fool is wrecking the company
H-D has never scored huge profit in the entry category, but the EVO Sportster had a long run as far as being able to experience a traditional air-cooled H-D and move up from there- At least that was the idea behind it. The blame isn’t all on H-D themselves. Prior to being discontinued, the main and unforgettable stigma in the H-D community surrounding the EVO Sportster was that it was just a “girls bike,” as displacements on bigger H-D’s started going over 100 CI.
The air-cooled had to die. It barely met emissions in euro 4 and was never going to make euro 5. Plus anyone who loves their sporster was likely not going to go out and buy another one brand new. Liquid cooled had to happen 10 years ago.
I think the company doesn't really understand the emotions involved in motorcycles. Let's face it, I could have gotten a better bike than my 2020 Street Bob, for less money, if you read just the spec sheet. But it wouldn't be the same. The spec sheets and financial spreadsheets are important, but you need some actual passionate riders in the mix. To run a motorcycle company you need that mix of business and passion, especially in 1st world countries where motorcycles are usually toys and not the primary source of transportation. I own a bunch of bikes, they tickle me differently. I am sure I could find a bike that could give the feelings my Harley does, Indian Chief maybe🤔
HD never was buyer friendly, ever. They always had a snobby attitude at the dealers, unless you were a big spender or return customer. They killed off their oldest dealerships in exchange for boutiques, they never wanted to keep any parts for older bikes, wouldn’t service bikes past 10yrs old etc. There were exceptions, but damn few. I’ve been riding Harley’s since the 70s, never bought new, always bought wrecks and built them or just rebuilt used bikes. The newest I own is an 87 FXR I rebuilt, the oldest is a 73FLH. I remember stopping by dealers to look for parts, and since I’m of the old school, they’d completely ignore me, even at the parts counter. I started on HD with a 73 XLCH my wife on a 77 XLCH. HD had boom years with the EVO and it totally went to their heads. This has been overdue for years now.
There is absolutely no comparison between how H-D dealers treated customers 1n the '70s and '80s and how they have for the past twenty years. I never experienced a snobby dealership until the mid to late '90s.
Thats what I found many years ago when I had my `87 FXSTC here in the UK. You would wait weeks for the smallest spare part which was essential to keep the bike on the road because they kept no stock but you could completely outfit yourself from HD socks, pants, Tees, jackets , coffee mugs, bandanas , etc !
i almost bought a harley.the basic price was 18k ,the saleman showed me a partial build and wanted 22k.when i asked to show me where the 4 k in extra was he brushed me off.i got a kawasaki for 1/2 the price ,never broke down.
I won't buy a Harley Davidson because the performance and reliability can't match the Japanese bikes and I'm not going to pay double for a slowpoke bike that brakes down every couple of months. Also, the fact that Harley Davidson went woke makes me sick, Harley should be run by an American
I bought a 1965 Panhesd / ElectraGlide for $1995. Rode it for 28 years and sold it for $11,000. Owned several Harleys over the years. I wouldn't piss on these new Harleys.
Harley has always been a confusing one to me Their image says blue collar hard working american freedom loving guy Their price range says dentist, doctors, and lawyers that are closet cosplayers
Precisely! I'm a blue collar guy that can only afford an old Harley that ends up costing a fortune in continual repairs or a different brand. I've just reached my limit on the money pit option, and I hate to say it, but I'm ready for a Goldwing or something.
I have never been interested in a Harley. It's not my kind of bike. However what I have observed is that it is posers - they like the image but don't really love riding. I have never seen an ordinarily biker with one. Usually they are fat and wealthy.
@@MadAnthonyIOr look into a Rebel 1100. Powerful, fuel efficient, comfortable, affordable, and looks amazing! I bought a 2022 DCT model. Best decision I ever made. I’m getting old and starting to get arthritis in my hands and wrists. Takes a bit to get used to, but not having a clutch is un describable. I can ride for hours and hours pain free. It’s amazing!
Agreed! Glorified shoes / athletics brand (PUMA) salesman from a foreign country has no business running an American Brand with such a prominence (at least once upon a time). Guess the Board of Directors are the real idiots though...
@@joshwilliams9122CEO and board of directors are on the same page. This is bigger than just destroying H-D. This is happening to all legacy corporations. This has to do with ESG scores. I'm not going into it here. Look it up. This is part of the big plan to take down the western world.
Two years ago I went to look at the new Nightster when it came out. Advertised at about $13K to start. In reality it was closer to $17K and the left side of the bike looks like a bunch of leftover hoses and bits from Home Depot. I ended up buying a Triumph Speedmaster. Runs and handles great and everywhere I go people love the looks. Even hardcore Harley riders admire it. Oh, did I mention it was $13K out the door? Period, end of story.
I've been riding since 1967. I presently own a 1985 Yamaha Vmax, and a 2002 Road Star 1600, both bought new. The Max has 136,500 miles on the clock, and the Roadie is pushing 100,000. I've never once had any desire to own a HD. I've put up with snobby Harley riders for decades, and would never want to turn into "that guy". Sad to say, if I ever buy another bike (I'm 75 years old), it won't be a Harley. Overpriced, sadly lacking in quality, living on past glories. It wouldn't be a tragedy to see them go away. (Now Indian is another story - I'd buy one in a New York Minute).
@@billseward8176 some Harley riders are douchebags and tend to stick out. I have Harley, KTM and Honda in my stable. The KTM is Austrian, need to add a Ducati 796 Hyper Motard. Stopped making them a decade ago. Just love the style
I believe it's price and tech. We liked working on our own machines and now most of that is gone. You can't even bleed your own brakes anymore. It's over.
My friend, U are spot on!. Take it from a 70 yr old who bought his first 1340cc Superglide In '84 for around $6,000. The arrogance of the HD salesmen keeps me out of their dealerships. Just bought a new Moto Guzzi last week!
Three things are killing the Motor Company right now. 1.) They've abandoned the core customer. When I say the core customer, I mean the blue collar workers, and the middle class who kept the Motor Company going all these years. I'd love to lay the blame exclusively at the feet of Jochen Zeitz for this. But the motor company was heading down this path before he showed up. He just accelerated it. When he took over I was working for a Harley dealership in Kansas City. Sadly they're no longer in business, and one of the first things we were told was production would be cut to create a sense of exclusivity, to make it a premium brand. I just stood there thinking to myself, we already have a hard time selling people people an FLHXS that is 28k OTD, and he wants to make it worse!? I lost count at how many people were really into the bike until I told them the cost would be the down payment on a house or even the equivalent to a car. There's a reason that Harley's Biggest competition is their own used bikes. Some guy who wanted to be exclusive took the hit. So the guy the motor company abandoned, instead of being a new bike sale, just waited for a good deal on a bike that likely had low miles. 2.) Jochen Zeitz While I'll give him credit for turning around Puma, he was never a good fit for Harley-Davidson, and the sales numbers don't lie. I don't need to spend a long time beating this dead horse. But a turnaround of the motor company doesn't begin until he's sent back to the Fatherland. 3.) They've abandoned the principles that got them to the dance. The Identity Politics and DEI stuff that recently came out is just a recent sign that the Motor-Company has lost it's way. Within the last 4 years we've seen the closing of the Kansas City plant, the loss of 800 Jobs, and now we're seeing bikes intended for the US Market being built in Thailand and sent back to America. Harley-Davidson stood for freedom, rugged individualism, & it was proud to be an American Motorcycle Company. They built bikes that people from all walks of life aspired to have. From white collar to blue collar if you rode a motorcycle the dream was to be on a Harley. I think a change in CEO with one who is both good at his job and understands the culture that is Harley-Davidson will correct this problem. Btw this is all just my 2 cents worth. I'm just a guy who rides a 20 year old Road King and has a degree in nothing. lol
Folks, Harley-Davidson stopped being a blue collar brand before I got out of high school in 1990. When my father had to custom order a Softail and pay a premium for the privilege in 1989, it was no longer a blue collar brand. Then in the '90s they had five and $10,000 markups on Harleys because they purposely shortened the manufacturing cycles. Why are you children talking about this now as if it's something new that Harley has been doing? And yes, it's a white collar cosplay community. I know this because I've been riding Harley-Davidson since 2005 and my very first Dyna wide glide
I think you summed it up perfectly. I am not sure if the Company will survive this latest round of events. The Japanese are building some very good options to Harley’s lineup. Some European companies are also building some interesting bikes. Both offer bikes at affordable prices.
I worked at a Harley main dealer in the UK from 96 to 01 All that time we had the basic 883 with low bars, solo seat and minimal chrome for £4995 including all taxes - what we call in England £4995 "on the road" Sold them hand over fist Where's the equivalent today to get the newbies in? Another thing that Harley Davidson have lost is that the Sportster was a "real" Harley- similar looking engine, sounded very similar, had a great heritage Now the Sportster looks and sounds nothing like a Big Twin Big mistake in my opinion
In the U.S. we call it OTD (Out The Door) Besides taxes, U.S. dealers add on a few thousand $$$ in dealer "fees" , freight, prep, doc fee, combined with tax and registration it can almost double the msrp of the bike.
@@geraldscott4302as I watch these videos from the US I’m appalled at the practices used by the dealers that are accepted as normal - admin fees, prep fees etc. Here in the UK the price the manufacturer advertises on their web site is the max. price you pay. Go into any dealer and that’s the price inclusive of all taxes and costs. It’s up to you to try and get a discount so the negotiation is about the customer pressurising the dealer not the other way round.
What are you talking about? VROD and Dyna were replaced by something better and btw, NOT this CEO. Buell wasn't this CEO and board either. Infact Buell's exit happened during the height of HD. And EBR didnt do well and shutdown in 2017. None of what you said is consistant with anything.
Really because Harley dropped Buell 13 years ago. Dropped the Vrod and Dyna 7 years ago. Dropped the Sportster 2 year ago And yet after allll these years are still a profitable business. Show me where they blew it?
I also have 2001 Heritage and after upgrading with new SS 509 cams. screaming eagle cam plate and true dual exhaust I am more than satisfied with the performance and absolutely love the of the bike
I just bought a brand new 2024 Harley street bob. I love the way it looks. I paid $19500 out the door. And as soon as I brought it home, I found that it was leaking oil. Took it back they fixed it. Then a few days later, the bike shut off on me while I was riding. Took it to the dealership, sat there for 10 days. They couldn't figure out the problem. Sent it back to me. It did it to me again..... Went back to the dealer again.They finally found the problem. Said that there was a continuity break between the battery stater and voltage regulator. Supposedly, they fixed it.Everything seems to be working now. But during that time, it really soured my opinion of harley davidson. A new bike should not come with a bunch of problems! Yes it was all covered under warranty. But if anything else goes wrong with this bike, i'm gonna seek lemon law. I have a two year warranty. And at the end of the two year warranty, i'm going to strongly consider trading the bike in for an indian! As I said before, I love the way the bike looks! But their reliability has gone down the tube, in my opinion.
My buddy bought a 2024 road glide, put 10k miles on it in 3 months and traded it in for a 2024 gold wing because of the HD service dept. runaround ( like a $500 oil change)
@@scottbennett7117 I had a '77 Sportster XLX and have to say that in two summers it never gave me a problem. My only point is that not EVERY AMF Harley was bad - a high percentage for sure, but some good ones made it through. And those Shovels and Ironheads make Evos feel like sewing machines, lol.
Yet Honda sells Groms as soon as they hit the showroom floor, RE are sold before they hit the showroom floor. Some young people are buying bikes, just buying not HD's, Thosse Grom buyers when they get older, and more money will buy a Goldwing, the RE buyers will probably progress to a larger Triumph, or BMW. Waiting for Boss Hoss to come out with a V6 bagger to compete with HD, and Indian.
I noticed that a coworker who was a longtime Harley rider was suddenly on a BMW. He said he went to a Harley dealer to choose a new bike. No one waited on him so he picked a bike by himself. He then asked how much and was told they didn't know. Apparently making a sale wasn't enough reason for them to go to the trouble of looking up a price. So he left his number and asked them to call him when they did have a price. They never called. He never want back.
There is a story out of Oakland that a while ago, like maybe 20 years, Sonny B owned a shop that sold used bikes but wanted to become a dealer to sell new bikes. HD refused saying he didin't represent the kind of image they wanted to associate with.
I would much rather have an old clunker than anything they're putting out now. It's not just the cost, Harley's have always been "Yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices" - They don't have any soul and I'd go Japanese as my first choice. Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha have gone above and beyond with their cruisers, the Bolt is the Sportster +. Now people who say that Japanese bikes don't have a soul have never ridden a Fireblade (which is motorcycle perfection). The soul of a bike comes from the heart of those who built it and I don't think anyone at Harley gives a damn anymore. The guys in charge certainly don't
Harley is hedging their bets on rich folks that buy a new bike every few years and they almost don't act like they want any working class folks business anymore.
You are 100% correct. Across the board. The fire blade is perfection. So is the zx6r and the busa. If you haven't ridden one and been able to handle it you have zero clue. It's all soul. It's just perfectly engineered.
8:41 I personally don't care for the technology. I want analog gauges driven by speedo and tach cables, carburetors, air cooled, throtle cables, maybe an oil cooler, and that's about it. Automobiles needed technology you get them from 7mpg guzzlers to 25+ mpg. My first Harley, a 1991 Electra Glide Sport (FLHS) got over 50 mpg. My twin cam will get 40mpg if I go really easy on the throttle. So what has the tech gained us? More horse power? My 80 cubic inch Evo had plenty. These aren't racing bikes, they're cruisers.
@@leifleblanc160 that's right. I've never been a sport bike rider but when I want to go fast I park the Caddy and take the Saab out for a top-down spin through the mountains.
Absolutely, there is an agenda here and the end game is the end of private motoring of any kind. The rulers and key shareholders will get their money and power even if they lose some company. It’s all just collateral damage.
I´m a Triumph rider living in Europe, but when I go to the US I always hire a Harley as I love them. In my opinion, what Harley got wrong is what Triumph got right. Triumph kept their classics like the Bonnie and the Scrambler, but at the same time innovated with new bikes. I ride a Tiger GT Pro and it has the same three cylinder concept that my Trident had in 1978 (I´m 64) which I love. Triumph has managed to combine the classic look and feel that customers like me go for with modernity. I mean I have a TFT screen on my Tiger, but if I squint sideways I can still see the rev counter my Bonnie had in ´81. So you have the young guys going for the street triples and the off road (in my case I live in the sticks so it´s not a choice). But I´m sorry to say, without wishing to offend, that the new Harleys look like mutants of the old ones, not improved versions of them. They also sound nothing like the Electraglides I used to hire to do Route 1 anymore. They sound like bottled farts, I´m sorry.
Walked into my local HD dealer near Tacoma WA, I was looking at the new Pan America because I like ADV bikes, I asked the tatted salesman if I could take it on a test ride and he said, “Sure, if you got $22,000!” From that day I will never walk into another HD dealership! I’m not in the game to buy an image, I buy motorcycles!
I thinks it's a major mix of all of those things truly. Over priced, under appreciation from corporate HD, lack of listening to the customers and basically killing someone whos financially not well from ever having the chance to get a nice traveling bike for decent price.
Well Harley’s customers are actually the dealers and they demand each dealer buys a certain amount to sell or else lose their franchise store. Then the dealer tries to ram even higher prices up our rumps. This business plan is crumbling now and I’m glad. We are tired of being ripped off. Nice video on this topic man. Fairly laid out and explained.
Agree, but todays HD Dlrs have become corporate owned by the same people owning auto dlrs to cash into HD. Very few Independant (Ma & Pop shops) remain. The service experience today is typically not what we enjoyed in the past. With HD's reduced vehicle sales declining since 2008 (profit's still up) these corporate owned dlrs may jump ship and fewer dlrs will be available. Sad to see the direction & decline of HD.
I was at the local Harley dealer talking to a salesperson there. I had bought a Triumph at another store belonging to the same owner but was looking for a helmet. The salesman was saying the same thing. There's no entry level Harleys and that's really hurting them. The old Sportster had gotten way too expensive, while falling further behind in performance, so they had to do something. Problem is, the replacement, while a much nicer bike, is now way more expensive than the old Sportster. So their "entry point" is now around $15k once you add on all the fees. They need a competitive entry level bike. Look at what Triumph did with the Speed 400. $6k or so out the door, and you're riding a cool looking and nice performing machine that brings you into the brand. You step up from there. It seems like Harley has become the Jeep of the motorcycle industry. They're finding out too late that there is a limit to what people are willing to pay, and they have no plan B The result: a lot of unsold bikes and a company in crisis. Sad.
About a year or two ago, Harley had a proposed model called the Bronx, which I was interested in, but then they never produced it after what the CEO and chairman of the board have done. I am no longer interested in Harley Davidson.
I’ve owned 6 Harley’s from Sportster to Street Glide. I switched to BMW after the issues with the clutch oil migration with the m8 engine. I really love Harley’s but there’s just nothing in their line up that wants me to purchase a new one. I ride a K1600b at the moment and handles better than any Harley. That said it’s the old adage, if I had to explain, you wouldn’t understand. Unfortunately Europe emissions and the banning of new petrol and diesel vehicles that will kill off Harley in the Uk. Dealers are already closing down and it’s such a shame. If the bikes were not as expensive and Harley like Triumph played on their heritage I’m sure things could be better. I also think the CEO has got it all wrong, stick to sports wear, you’re not cut out for motorcycles.
The guys that can afford a new Harley every couple of years, are still going to buy a new Harley every couple of years. The rest of us will buy a used one. Most new riders are going to buy sport bikes, dirt bikes, adventure bikes, or scooters.
Triumph and Indian Scouts are retro cruisers with all the amenities for less money. I was looking at some 10 year old used Kawasakis, Hondas , Triumphs, Yamaha big displacement cruisers at very reasonable prices.
@@StingerPat That's what I bought due to price but sadly nerve damage in my clutch hand I'll be getting a Can-Am Spyder Would love to get a Indian but clutch hands not getting any better
My Honda is midway through. I kept it, 1982 Gold Wing. Still has the cassette deck. Up in the air now needs carbs. In order, HD, dyna glide with the shovel engine. OOps. Next was a 1958 Trumpet, another oops., Magna and 1100 shadow were next. Followed by the Wing. Then I got the 2004 HD Springer Standard, good bike, loved it. Then we learned of the cam followers grenading at 40K. HD's other problem. The engineering mistakes are on the customer. So Rick Kosco was just giving us the parts at his cost. $1200.00, but it's a do it yourself. In 2015 I wanted the Grandpa Cruiser, IE: Ultra Glide. Well the other issue is the dealers. 5K was what they offered for a bike with the last factory installed chrome springer. Called Indian, $8200.00 over the phone, $8500.00 when they saw it. Home run. The 1K for military and 15% of anything factory they would install. Picked it up on my 57th birthday and rode the beast to Sturgis. NEVER looked back.
@@GixxerFoo I am 70 with advanced heart disease, just could not force myself on a trike. Instead I bought a smaller bike, easier to handle, and I am loving the bike.
I agree 100% on pricing themselves out. We love riding and would love a new bike but realistically I can’t justify owning one newer than like 10 years old.
I don't know why people think that, the Buell division lost money every year it was running. Then Buell went broke on his own with EBR, which is now just using his name. He's now grifting electric bicycles and that will be broke in a few years.
Buell filled a niche for HD. It gave them an entre nous into sport touring bikes and racing. While not as profitable as HD's, Buell was a gateway product to get guys into the dealership who would never come in for an HD. HD had to look at Buell as a cost of doing business, much like racing.
@@Scott-ph2yk Maybe on the moco level... Not sure if you were in the market and in their doors then, it was a long time ago. I know here in So Cal (I'm sure everywhere, they all tend to be the same) in the era of Buell the HD dealers treated you like a leper. They genuinely wanted nothing to do with Buell buyers. I wasn't interested in HD at the time, but would of bought a Buell. Their attitude pushed me out their doors back then and stayed on sportbikes.
@@highwayman1218 🤣🤣🤣 Are you familiar with the old saw, "the true test of a man's intelligence is when they come to the same conclusion as others..." You hit it right on the head! I actually went to look at buying an XB12R back in 2005 or so, after following the Buell journey through the S models in the 90's. My experience at two different HD dealers was bad. They wanted to sell me away from Buell to an HD. "Leprosy" is a good description. Disgusted, I left, never to return. I still think Buells are cool bikes, but HD will never see a dime from me. 😉
Two things are killing the moco in my opinion: The money they want for a new bike (when you can get a better non HD bike, for less) They lost their "image", by limiting support on the HOG network. Like it or not-that marketing strategy was brilliant. People who were brand loyal, hundreds of thousands strong, free advertising. Being a member used to have a lot of benefits-group rides, rallies, awards, etc. These days, its a patch and a pin. Very little corporate support.
Harley cannot compete with other bike brands on price, or quality. Once the older Harley cult is gone, Harley will never compete for the younger market.
Why do you think they supported SOA tv show? Trying to push younger folks into the 1 percent cult that only allows Harleys. Problem is the young can't afford the dues, and an expensive bike, nor do they have what it takes to be a 1 percent.
I was at our Indian dealer yesterday for our riders group meeting and ride, the sales manager said August was a very good month for Indian sales and 30% of the sales were to Harley riders. He also said when he called the local Harley dealers to get numbers for trade ins they are not giving numbers due to being flooded with bikes.
I buy used ones for 1/3rd the price, best part is most these guys dont put harrdly any miles on them, I think they just use them as a prop most the time.
To me, Harley shot it's wad back in the '80s when it went "boutique" and ran all of the mom and pop shops outta business. This move changed the entire face of the machine, and the lifestyle in general. I've owned 20 Harleys over 40yrs, not one bought new, and I've always done my own mechanic and customization, work, without giving the company a second thought. I love the machine, the way it looks, smells, sounds, and feels, and that overrides everything else, and I'm not about to burn my shirts or trash a bike to make a meaningless point. To me, people are overreacting by putting the machine aside and responding to and getting entangled in political shit. Ride your bike, enjoy your life, ignore the bullshit, and just quit giving them business. This is earth, and shit's gonna be what it's gonna be. Ride Safe. Good video, as usual.👍
@@kevinhgreaves .I've been riding for 51 yrs this year, the last 40 on Harley's, and it's been about the machine and the lifestyle, to hell with everything else. Life has enough trouble without "borrowing" more. Ride safe, my friend.👍
What lifestyle? Harley is the LGBTQ lifestyle now. 😂 It's a 24/7 rolling queer pride parade everywhere a Harley exists. Have fun with your new "lifestyle".
HD used to sell smaller motorcycles. 165cc, 250cc and so on in the 40's through 70's. Although in the 70's they were not made by Harley, they were made by Aermacchis and badged HD. So when I bought my first bike in the 80's it was a mid size Honda. So this trend of HD eliminating new riders has been going on for 50 plus years.
When I worked at the local H-D Dealership, I didn't sell bikes, I helped people buy them. Now they sell bikes. Not many enjoyed the process of buying a car at a dealership, but they loved going to the Harley dealership . The lines have been blurred and the experiences now feel the same, and I'm sure not many people just hang out at the Kia dealership on a Saturday. Harley was built on passion and its being stomped into..."what's it gonna take, to get you on this bike today" .
My understanding is that a decent amount of dealerships have been bought up by the big local car dealership conglomerate and that is partially where these tactics come from. The finance offices and managers that are used to managing a car dealership...sad really. For many this is the first experience they get with HD...car dealership sales pressures.
Harley never had me, and I've been riding since 1980. I used to warch my dad file the points, reground a bad ground, split the cases to diagnose why it slipped out of second gear. Are Harley's supposed to leak oil? He spent more time fisdling with the bike than riding it. Honda doesnt do that to their customers. Kick and go.
Do you honestly think things never change? Ask owners of the Honda Rebel 1100 with the incurable oil leak how they feel about Honda reliability. And I've never had a serious problem with any of the three modern Harleys I've owned.
I think Royal Enfield is doing what Harley should be doing. They are putting out retro styled bikes with modern amenities. Their pricing is reasonable as well. The new Sportster looks like a cartoon.
Harley is building a new entry level bike in China just like Royal Enfield and the KTM 390. It is going to be sold in the Asian markets not USA. Harley gave up on the people that made them what they were.
The pricing on RE can be very deceptive. Here in New Hampshire, they're adding $1000 to MSRP to get it out the door - it's not the bargain that it appears to be. Worse yet, the 600 mile service on the 350 singles is $500-600. That's a helluva hit two weeks after you forked over six grand for a five grand bike!
They don't actually have any mechanics on staff. They have high-school dropouts who took a course on how to replace parts on particular machines. If you drive in on a pre-2000 bike they're going to point at the carb and say, "What's that?" True story. You'd be better off taking your old bike, even a HD, to an honest Mexican mechanic who operates out of a shed. Mexicans can fix anything. They'll even fabricate the part right there out of junk if they have to. HD is nothing more than a giant marketing scam appealing to not-very-savvy guys with more money than sense who think a motorcycle makes them tough.
100% true...personaly I wouldn't take them my bike ...too long to fix...too expensive...an they act like the bikes from an outher century...Disgusting....
Back in 1993 I bough a new FXR Super Glide for my sixtieth birthday. That was when people were having to wait 6 or 8 months, maybe more for a new bike. I wanted black so I only waited about 4 months for it. Fabulous bike looked great and ran like a clock, a really fast clock. I paid $10,000 for it. I still have it and it still looks and run great. Unfortunately my son won't let me ride it anymore. The new Harley's don't do anything for me at all. The good old days are gone.
Time to trade in the son. I ride an 08 1200 sportster and I love it and will ride till I cant do so safetly no matter what anyone says. And I ride mostly with my 2 sons,
They have always been expensive and poorly made. The problem is their Boomer demographic is literally dying and younger buyers are better educated and have better options. To anyone under 50, Harley Davidson is a meme.
I guess I have never known anyone who bought a brand new H-D as their entry level machine. Me, my brothers, my friends, we all bought used. I’ve owned a few Sportys, my wife and son both started on Sportsters, but they were bought used too. Never considered a warranty or service contract as a benefit, I would never let anyone else turn a wrench on my machine anyways. I find it harder to relate to riders these days. They make bike payments, they don’t work on their bikes, and they look like they buy their complete wardrobe at the H-D dealer. To be honest I would have to say H-D has been losing me for years with their business model. I think I’m just not their target consumer anymore. Maybe I never was?
Rem I had to laugh when I read your comment. I was sitting in a diner a few years ago and several folks walked in, They had leather EVERYTHING, they even had leather tassels on the handle bars looked like contestants on the price is right. People have the right to do what they like but I think they are missing the big picture. Blessings to all.
Ha Ha. I feel stupid. Wearing a leather jkt when out on my FB. I wear one obviously for proptection ,but i wear a 20 year old army combat jkt over the top.
@@rickybobby6760 Thanks johnnybilly because of real bikers like yourself I never have to pay even near face value for motorcycle stuff like bikes and riding gear. 2-3 years they sell it all for a song and a dance, Please please continue.
Well I never said you shouldn’t wear leather. I don’t ride without it (most of the time). No tassels, but I guess if you want tassels then by all means you go for it. I am just saying that people seem more concerned with looking like a stereotypical biker. Well I can’t imagine anyone being called a biker who doesn’t wrench on their own machine. I guess I am too old, maybe it’s a holdover from growing up poor. I just can’t imagine dropping my bike off to get an oil change. I think my wife would divorce me.
What most people are forgetting here is, tighter emissions and government regulations have made the “air cooled” bikes disappear. The CEO wants Harley to go 100% electric. That WILL be their downfall. I own a 2022 sportster 48. The dealer tried their hardest to get me into a nightster and sportster s. I said hell no. The reason I bought a Harley is for that classic sound, that stripped down basic type feeling. The rumble and the nostalgia.
If they go all electric as they state they want to they really will be dead to me. No interest in riding something that sounds like it is powered by a large electric drill...
I'm 70 an still love riding Sportsters. Though my wife says I'm too old to ride them. What? wut? Are the cops going to card me? "Sorry sir but you are too old to ride this bike." Maybe I'll only ride it at night and stay on my big twins during daylight hours. IDK. And yes, you are right again. The new bikes are priced waayyy too high to even consider buying one. Although, after many years of cooking my private parts, I might be interested in a water cooled bagger.
"WHY WOULD YOU CHANGE IT. . . . .IF IT'S WORKING?" That's a crucial statement that a lot of companies are being hurt by and and continue in their ways despite. Why change it? because every new CEO that comes into a new company comes in with the advantage of the success of their predecessor, however, that's not good enough, they have to make a name for themselves. Most CEOs feel that if they're brought on it's because the company is going in the wrong direction, which for the consumer, it usually isn't, until changes start to be made and history is wiped away because that's the past and the new CEO is the future and their ideas are better than what founded the company who's heritage they are now inheriting by title. Even Honda kept the same engine and bike lines for decades until the last few years when they started redoing the rebel line. They're redesigning so much of what people liked about their bikes trying to entice newer younger riders, when the LIFESTYLE of riding a motorcycle (the danger, the look, the sound, the excitement) doesn't appeal to them. Being an elder millennial i feel like there should be more of us riding but would rather buy their starbucks instead. I personally love the batwing fairing, bagger, chromed out, cushy "old man" bikes that harley has made for so long. It has more american heritage than the sport bikes they're trying to imulate. If I could've gotten a Heritage Classic new at 22K for what I got my honda shadow new at 8K, that would've been what I went with, but I bought my bike first and foremost on the budget I could afford. HD has long forgotten that people don't just have money to throw around on a bike they'll have to sell when they can't make the payments. Very good video btw
I walked into a Harley-Davidson dealership with 22,000 to spend cash! He said he had to order the bike cuz there wasn't any bikes! The door to the back was open and I looked through and saw a bike and I said hey what about that bike can I buy that bike and he slammed the door on me and said; "That's somebody else's bike we're working on". And I thought that was pretty suspicious behavior two weeks later he was arrested for chopping bikes up! 🤷🏻♂️ I ended up buying a Kawasaki KLR 650 20 ft jon boat with a 30 horse Johnson and a trailer and still had money left over! 🤔
As an old man I can say that Harley's image is that it's a bike for old men/people. Rarely do you see a 20 something riding one and when you do it's usually with other young riders on sports bikes that are more nimble and quicker than the Harley. Why pay $40k for a heavy bike when you can get performance, handling and reliability for less than half the price?
I did purchase a new v-twin motorcycle and it wasn't a Harley. I bought a new Moto Guzzi V100S Mandello. I'm happy with my purchase! Moto Guzzi is moving forward while Harley Davidson commits suicide 😢
HD would do much better if they would just go back to actual classics. The new styles just don't have that old HD vibe. Go back to the old styles, and make them more reliable and more affordable. New does not always mean better.
Just spent some money on my 103 and in the last week I've added Zippers Red Shift cams, Fueling lifters, Thundermax tuner, full Vance and Hines exhaust set up, K and N intake, this bike is now super awesome. I don't care at all for a new Harley
I was at a dealership yesterday and looked at new baggers and along with a good chance of experiencing sumping, I don't like the new bags, even thought they hold more. Also the new fairing is not as graceful as the original Batwing. They are ridiculously expensive.
HD bikes jumped the shark about 10 years ago. Then they built those retail Taj Mahal stores full of t-shirts and toys. The death knell was this j/o CEO and electric crap.
Government worries about a two cylinder engine polluting up the air when there are eight cylinder cars out there doing the same. A motorcycle probably puts out less pollution without emission controls than your Honda Prius riding around.
When it's all said and done it's not really about the environment. Electric crap cars and motorcycles and the lithium battery requirements along with solid waste from innumerable spent batteries is BAD for the environment. IT IS ABOUT POLITICS, NEW WEALTH TO BE MADE, WHILE LYING TO HUMANITY.
I have owned 4 Harley's: two Evo sportsters and two Road Kings. Both models have been discontinued ( Road King Special is a shameful parody). If I buy another bike, it will be used. It will be an Evo sportster or Road King. I absolutely love the way those models function. I don't need a TV screen with ride modes and a stadium grade sound system. I got my first Road King in 2018 for 14k after corporate and dealer discounts. Deals like that just don't have the same impact anymore.
Three hds. All flh. I dont count my 48 pan in this discussion. After bad service record,loose valve guides,bad electrics,saddle bags w the tops flying off bad woodruff keys in the oil pump etc etc went bmw. Never turned back. HD never gave a rats rear end if I ever got home much less out of the garage. And yes 2 of those were evos. My 1970 bmw will run forever. Harleys sit and drip.
After test riding the 2023 Indian Challenger Dark Horse and the Harley Road Glide, I decided to go with the Indian. 3000+ miles later, I love my Indian!
You kickstart a panhead or an early shovel, you hear Jimi Hendrix. You wake up an EVO, you’re giving your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle. This is not “old school”, this is a solid legend. You can’t compare anything to those Harley Davidsons. Everything has its glory time, we can’t really help it in any way. Younger folks can only “cosplay” riding new bikes. What we old motormen testified, were steel horses. And a cowboy knows the difference. There is only one thing fair in all that: unlike modern rides, old harleys were born to last forever. They can tolerate a ton of rebuilds. Of course, they need a rider, not a wannabe sunday-once in a year user. You don’t know how to ride, you’re riding a coffin. I can only suggest this to youngsters: Invest your money, learn to ride, and ride a legend. Pick up an old harley and rebuild totally. You will agree with me. Ride safe and ride hard. ✌️
not a wannabe sunday-once in a year user HAhahaha always got to be one in the crowd, Tell me how many times or miles do I have to ride to be a real biker like you.
Always thought they were ugly, loud and over priced. All of the "popular" ones. I said this years ago, HD was relying on its history and nostalgia. Jokes on them.
Harley dealers drove customers away long before this. I have never been treated as badly by any store, let alone a dealership, than when I went to buy my Harley decades ago. Worse than a used car lot. I ended up buying low mileage used instead, and buy my parts online from 3rd party sellers. Harley Corp. never got another dime from me directly, never will.
At 65, I just bought my first, and probably only HD. Price has always kept me from buying one. I rode my 1994 Honda Shadow my Brother gave me for my Birthday in 2011 for 13 years, before recently buying a used 2012 HD Heritage Classic with 16000 miles, in Tequila Sunrise & HD Orange. I got a good deal on it. Love your channel, thanks for all your information.
My newest bike is a 2016 Fat Bob, and that will be the newest H-D I ever own. I’m going to be going backwards from here and getting carburated Evo’s from now on.
@@GixxerFoo sorry to hear that, I hope nobody got hurt, I have looked at it as property can be rebuilt , but it’s lives are more important, as we are only here once, over the last 10 years I have been scammed by my ex female partner, being burgled and lost somewhere between 15 and €20,000 of tools and equipment, oh and I forgot to mention in 2022 I had a heart attack, But I’m still here and I’m back on my bike for a bike shall I say?, I hope you’re all okay , And if I could get across there, I’ll give you a hand to sort things out, Look forward to next weeks, from France,
Triumph seems to understand the market much better than HD, they have sold 50,000 of their new street and scrambler 400cc motorcycles. They are fun little bikes that have the retro appeal with modern technology under $5000.00. The local dealer sells them before they can even be put on the floor.
30,000 + for a new bike, then you should upgrade cam chest because of sumping. Man that sounds like a great idea. NOT FOR ME! Many more other manufactures to choose from.
I test rode a pan american yesterday that has to be one of the best bikes in its class. Absollutly loved it wish I could afford one. Just bought a new KLR wish I would have rode it first only problem I can buy three KLRs for one pan american.
I agree, “entry level” prices are nuts. RevMax “Sportsters”… would never buy one, so they’re out of the equation. $14,999.00 for a Softail Standard (before tax, title, etc). No way, especially for what you get. Buyer’s market right now. Because I’m looking, I’m finding a lot of nice Evo Sportsters out there at reasonable prices. Just having trouble finding the color I want.
NEVER EVER even WANTED a Harley EVER...... and Yea, I do not finance a lifestyle, I finance Ride-Style. Faster than F**k works for me every time and Harley hasn't been fast EVER.
I still have my 77 AMF XLH Sportster which I bought new. I finished with H-D when I bought my 95 Evo FLSTN....just love it! Was thinking of buying a Pan America but bought a Triumph Bonneville Speedmaster instead. Until they get ride of their CEO and Board I won't buy as much as a T-Shirt from them!
Younger riders are not attracted to Harley Davidson, and older riders are aging out and selling their bikes, so the market is well supplied with very nice used Harley's that can save half the cost of a new one, and not be meaningfully different in styling or technology. A Ducati Mulitstrada V4 costs about $27,000 and it is the most popular Ducati being sold, and Ducati sales have been growing year over year (up 11% in 2023). Harley's changing fortunes are not primarily the result of HD pricing, it is the result of changing demographics. If Ducati can sell every Multistrada it makes for $27K, one has to ask if price is the real issue, and I don't think it is.
The Harley subculture has also taken its toll. In the 1970's and 80's I saw lots of folks get into the Harley culture scene for for a few years or even decades only to suddenly get the hell out, quickly. For me, it was the infamous 1995 Quebec biker wars, the Robert Pickton (Piggy's Palace) serial murder trial and a few bad personal encounters with shady characters, forced me to have second thoughts about the whole Harley scene I once embraced. By the late 1990's I completely lost interest the Harley Davidson brand. I think the Harley subculture has slowly fallen off as well.
Harley lost me when they dumped the air cooled Sportster. I didn't want another Harley. Sportsters were my favorite bike of all time. That German fool is wrecking the company
That was a huge mistake on Harley's part not continuing with an updated air cooled Sportster.
Going woke does it to almost everything.
H-D has never scored huge profit in the entry category, but the EVO Sportster had a long run as far as being able to experience a traditional air-cooled H-D and move up from there- At least that was the idea behind it. The blame isn’t all on H-D themselves. Prior to being discontinued, the main and unforgettable stigma in the H-D community surrounding the EVO Sportster was that it was just a “girls bike,” as displacements on bigger H-D’s started going over 100 CI.
The air-cooled had to die. It barely met emissions in euro 4 and was never going to make euro 5.
Plus anyone who loves their sporster was likely not going to go out and buy another one brand new.
Liquid cooled had to happen 10 years ago.
@@keithulhul7540 my bike won’t pass Euro 1, it’s a carbureted Honda VTX 1300. Rejetted with some good sounding pipes.
Harley-Davidson is killing Harley-Davidson single-handed without any help
A little help from robbie starbuck but ya they are definitely the culprit
Suicide is a startlingly common cause of death.
And it's done by purposely concise movements. This is intentional by all means.
the govt is forcing them into it.
I think the company doesn't really understand the emotions involved in motorcycles. Let's face it, I could have gotten a better bike than my 2020 Street Bob, for less money, if you read just the spec sheet. But it wouldn't be the same. The spec sheets and financial spreadsheets are important, but you need some actual passionate riders in the mix. To run a motorcycle company you need that mix of business and passion, especially in 1st world countries where motorcycles are usually toys and not the primary source of transportation. I own a bunch of bikes, they tickle me differently. I am sure I could find a bike that could give the feelings my Harley does, Indian Chief maybe🤔
HD never was buyer friendly, ever. They always had a snobby attitude at the dealers, unless you were a big spender or return customer. They killed off their oldest dealerships in exchange for boutiques, they never wanted to keep any parts for older bikes, wouldn’t service bikes past 10yrs old etc.
There were exceptions, but damn few.
I’ve been riding Harley’s since the 70s, never bought new, always bought wrecks and built them or just rebuilt used bikes.
The newest I own is an 87 FXR I rebuilt, the oldest is a 73FLH. I remember stopping by dealers to look for parts, and since I’m of the old school, they’d completely ignore me, even at the parts counter.
I started on HD with a 73 XLCH my wife on a 77 XLCH. HD had boom years with the EVO and it totally went to their heads.
This has been overdue for years now.
There is absolutely no comparison between how H-D dealers treated customers 1n the '70s and '80s and how they have for the past twenty years. I never experienced a snobby dealership until the mid to late '90s.
@@StevenRogers-hw9dj Thanks to Willie G. and the bikes becoming status symbols.
@@StevenRogers-hw9dj that’s when they’d killed off all the old dealerships and were all boutiques by then.
The newer riders are candy asses too. Trying to buy the "I'm a cool biker" attitude.
Thats what I found many years ago when I had my `87 FXSTC here in the UK. You would wait weeks for the smallest spare part which was essential to keep the bike on the road because they kept no stock but you could completely outfit yourself from HD socks, pants, Tees, jackets , coffee mugs, bandanas , etc !
i almost bought a harley.the basic price was 18k ,the saleman showed me a partial build and wanted 22k.when i asked to show me where the 4 k in extra was he brushed me off.i got a kawasaki for 1/2 the price ,never broke down.
yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices.
Yes that is why my RK is 25 years old.
Same with my ‘02 T100
194k and still going strong!
I won't buy a Harley Davidson because the performance and reliability can't match the Japanese bikes and I'm not going to pay double for a slowpoke bike that brakes down every couple of months. Also, the fact that Harley Davidson went woke makes me sick, Harley should be run by an American
I bought a 1965 Panhesd / ElectraGlide for $1995. Rode it for 28 years and sold it for $11,000. Owned several Harleys over the years. I wouldn't piss on these new Harleys.
Harley has always been a confusing one to me
Their image says blue collar hard working american freedom loving guy
Their price range says dentist, doctors, and lawyers that are closet cosplayers
Dentists and doctors that want to pretend they are blue collar to get some action?
Precisely! I'm a blue collar guy that can only afford an old Harley that ends up costing a fortune in continual repairs or a different brand. I've just reached my limit on the money pit option, and I hate to say it, but I'm ready for a Goldwing or something.
I have never been interested in a Harley. It's not my kind of bike.
However what I have observed is that it is posers - they like the image but don't really love riding. I have never seen an ordinarily biker with one.
Usually they are fat and wealthy.
@@MadAnthonyIOr look into a Rebel 1100. Powerful, fuel efficient, comfortable, affordable, and looks amazing!
I bought a 2022 DCT model. Best decision I ever made. I’m getting old and starting to get arthritis in my hands and wrists. Takes a bit to get used to, but not having a clutch is un describable. I can ride for hours and hours pain free. It’s amazing!
@@gregculverwell That's me! I hate riding my Harley. I do it for image purposes only. I'm just trying to make the neighbors think I'm cool.
CEO needs to Go!
Agreed! Glorified shoes / athletics brand (PUMA) salesman from a foreign country has no business running an American Brand with such a prominence (at least once upon a time). Guess the Board of Directors are the real idiots though...
I second that.
needs to go to ukraine
It's like you're at a bar listing to George Thorogood, and some a wipe puts dance music on the jukebox.
@@joshwilliams9122CEO and board of directors are on the same page. This is bigger than just destroying H-D. This is happening to all legacy corporations. This has to do with ESG scores. I'm not going into it here. Look it up. This is part of the big plan to take down the western world.
Two years ago I went to look at the new Nightster when it came out. Advertised at about $13K to start. In reality it was closer to $17K and the left side of the bike looks like a bunch of leftover hoses and bits from Home Depot. I ended up buying a Triumph Speedmaster. Runs and handles great and everywhere I go people love the looks. Even hardcore Harley riders admire it. Oh, did I mention it was $13K out the door? Period, end of story.
I've been riding since 1967. I presently own a 1985 Yamaha Vmax, and a 2002 Road Star 1600, both bought new. The Max has 136,500 miles on the clock, and the Roadie is pushing 100,000. I've never once had any desire to own a HD. I've put up with snobby Harley riders for decades, and would never want to turn into "that guy". Sad to say, if I ever buy another bike (I'm 75 years old), it won't be a Harley. Overpriced, sadly lacking in quality, living on past glories. It wouldn't be a tragedy to see them go away. (Now Indian is another story - I'd buy one in a New York Minute).
I had a Speedmaster. Absolutely amazing bike!
I’m looking to get a Speedmaster as soon as my Street Glide is paid off.
@@billseward8176 some Harley riders are douchebags and tend to stick out. I have Harley, KTM and Honda in my stable. The KTM is Austrian, need to add a Ducati 796 Hyper Motard. Stopped making them a decade ago. Just love the style
I have a 2003 Harley but I always admired Triumph bikes. Today I wish I had gotten a Triumph. You did good.
I believe it's price and tech. We liked working on our own machines and now most of that is gone. You can't even bleed your own brakes anymore. It's over.
My friend, U are spot on!. Take it from a 70 yr old who bought his first 1340cc Superglide In '84 for around $6,000. The arrogance of the HD salesmen keeps me out of their dealerships. Just bought a new Moto Guzzi last week!
Personally I stay away from Italian bikes. Not that I do not like them, but, the parts are crazy expensive.
6000 in 1984 bought half a starter home!
Three things are killing the Motor Company right now.
1.) They've abandoned the core customer.
When I say the core customer, I mean the blue collar workers, and the middle class who kept the Motor Company going all these years. I'd love to lay the blame exclusively at the feet of Jochen Zeitz for this. But the motor company was heading down this path before he showed up. He just accelerated it. When he took over I was working for a Harley dealership in Kansas City. Sadly they're no longer in business, and one of the first things we were told was production would be cut to create a sense of exclusivity, to make it a premium brand.
I just stood there thinking to myself, we already have a hard time selling people people an FLHXS that is 28k OTD, and he wants to make it worse!? I lost count at how many people were really into the bike until I told them the cost would be the down payment on a house or even the equivalent to a car. There's a reason that Harley's Biggest competition is their own used bikes. Some guy who wanted to be exclusive took the hit. So the guy the motor company abandoned, instead of being a new bike sale, just waited for a good deal on a bike that likely had low miles.
2.) Jochen Zeitz
While I'll give him credit for turning around Puma, he was never a good fit for Harley-Davidson, and the sales numbers don't lie. I don't need to spend a long time beating this dead horse. But a turnaround of the motor company doesn't begin until he's sent back to the Fatherland.
3.) They've abandoned the principles that got them to the dance.
The Identity Politics and DEI stuff that recently came out is just a recent sign that the Motor-Company has lost it's way. Within the last 4 years we've seen the closing of the Kansas City plant, the loss of 800 Jobs, and now we're seeing bikes intended for the US Market being built in Thailand and sent back to America. Harley-Davidson stood for freedom, rugged individualism, & it was proud to be an American Motorcycle Company. They built bikes that people from all walks of life aspired to have. From white collar to blue collar if you rode a motorcycle the dream was to be on a Harley. I think a change in CEO with one who is both good at his job and understands the culture that is Harley-Davidson will correct this problem.
Btw this is all just my 2 cents worth. I'm just a guy who rides a 20 year old Road King and has a degree in nothing. lol
You have the most important degrees of them all. You have a degree in intelligence and a degree in common sense.
Folks, Harley-Davidson stopped being a blue collar brand before I got out of high school in 1990. When my father had to custom order a Softail and pay a premium for the privilege in 1989, it was no longer a blue collar brand. Then in the '90s they had five and $10,000 markups on Harleys because they purposely shortened the manufacturing cycles. Why are you children talking about this now as if it's something new that Harley has been doing? And yes, it's a white collar cosplay community. I know this because I've been riding Harley-Davidson since 2005 and my very first Dyna wide glide
@@JamesthorSorry to hear about that.
I think you summed it up perfectly. I am not sure if the Company will survive this latest round of events. The Japanese are building some very good options to Harley’s lineup. Some European companies are also building some interesting bikes. Both offer bikes at affordable prices.
You have good writing skills. I agree HD was “blue collar” 👍
I worked at a Harley main dealer in the UK from 96 to 01
All that time we had the basic 883 with low bars, solo seat and minimal chrome for £4995 including all taxes - what we call in England £4995 "on the road"
Sold them hand over fist
Where's the equivalent today to get the newbies in?
Another thing that Harley Davidson have lost is that the Sportster was a "real" Harley- similar looking engine, sounded very similar, had a great heritage
Now the Sportster looks and sounds nothing like a Big Twin
Big mistake in my opinion
In the U.S. we call it OTD (Out The Door) Besides taxes, U.S. dealers add on a few thousand $$$ in dealer "fees" , freight, prep, doc fee, combined with tax and registration it can almost double the msrp of the bike.
Dad left me a ho house but I had to run it by hand until I could afford to hire help.
In the meantime I made money hand over fist.
@@mianki100do you need to talk brother?
@@NateMaliszew
You need someone to explain the joke to you.
I would, except y/t keeps removing random comments/reply's of mine.
@@geraldscott4302as I watch these videos from the US I’m appalled at the practices used by the dealers that are accepted as normal - admin fees, prep fees etc. Here in the UK the price the manufacturer advertises on their web site is the max. price you pay. Go into any dealer and that’s the price inclusive of all taxes and costs. It’s up to you to try and get a discount so the negotiation is about the customer pressurising the dealer not the other way round.
When HD dumped Buell, Dyna's, Vrod, Sportster they BLEW IT. Need to dump that CEO and Board immediately.
I would agree.
I agree.
What are you talking about? VROD and Dyna were replaced by something better and btw, NOT this CEO. Buell wasn't this CEO and board either. Infact Buell's exit happened during the height of HD. And EBR didnt do well and shutdown in 2017. None of what you said is consistant with anything.
Really because Harley dropped Buell 13 years ago.
Dropped the Vrod and Dyna 7 years ago.
Dropped the Sportster 2 year ago
And yet after allll these years are still a profitable business. Show me where they blew it?
Global Elites will never allow Woke German CEO and Board of Directors to be replaced. 😭😭😭
I’ve now owned 11 Harleys. They quit caring about customers like me a long time ago. Way too expensive. I’m about to get my first Goldwing. It’s time.
I bought a Goldwing and even though it was a nice bike I hated it and couldn't wait to get rid of it. It was like a Buick motorcycle.
Looks like Harley is doing what Stellantis is doing.
No one can f-up a company as bad as Stellantis - they are the worst
Who’s Stelantis?🤣
I agree with everything you said. I'm just as happy of keeping my 2001 heritage instead of buying a new harley.
That is truly a great classic!👍
Those bikes were crafted and not manufactured like the ones today.
That was my exact thought!
Yep 2000 flhri here. I would NEVER buy a new bike, Harley or any other for that matter. owned 10-12 Harleys, 3 jap bikes and 2 of those were new.
I also have 2001 Heritage and after upgrading with new SS 509 cams. screaming eagle cam plate and true dual exhaust I am more than satisfied with the performance and absolutely love the of the bike
I just bought a brand new 2024 Harley street bob. I love the way it looks. I paid $19500 out the door. And as soon as I brought it home, I found that it was leaking oil. Took it back they fixed it. Then a few days later, the bike shut off on me while I was riding. Took it to the dealership, sat there for 10 days. They couldn't figure out the problem. Sent it back to me. It did it to me again..... Went back to the dealer again.They finally found the problem. Said that there was a continuity break between the battery stater and voltage regulator. Supposedly, they fixed it.Everything seems to be working now. But during that time, it really soured my opinion of harley davidson. A new bike should not come with a bunch of problems! Yes it was all covered under warranty. But if anything else goes wrong with this bike, i'm gonna seek lemon law. I have a two year warranty. And at the end of the two year warranty, i'm going to strongly consider trading the bike in for an indian! As I said before, I love the way the bike looks! But their reliability has gone down the tube, in my opinion.
My buddy bought a 2024 road glide, put 10k miles on it in 3 months and traded it in for a 2024 gold wing because of the HD service dept. runaround ( like a $500 oil change)
I am guessing you missed the AMF era of Harley. Have a chat with someone who was around Harley's at that time.
@@scottbennett7117 I had a '77 Sportster XLX and have to say that in two summers it never gave me a problem. My only point is that not EVERY AMF Harley was bad - a high percentage for sure, but some good ones made it through. And those Shovels and Ironheads make Evos feel like sewing machines, lol.
BMW is the same.
@leudwigvonshwartsenhelm3624 I rode my 1998 wide glide for 18 years ( bought it when it was 6 years old )
What a great bike no probs at all .
young people have zero money. Harley lost the gateway people too.
That's the harsh reality right there.
Yet Honda sells Groms as soon as they hit the showroom floor, RE are sold before they hit the showroom floor. Some young people are buying bikes, just buying not HD's, Thosse Grom buyers when they get older, and more money will buy a Goldwing, the RE buyers will probably progress to a larger Triumph, or BMW. Waiting for Boss Hoss to come out with a V6 bagger to compete with HD, and Indian.
I noticed that a coworker who was a longtime Harley rider was suddenly on a BMW. He said he went to a Harley dealer to choose a new bike. No one waited on him so he picked a bike by himself. He then asked how much and was told they didn't know. Apparently making a sale wasn't enough reason for them to go to the trouble of looking up a price. So he left his number and asked them to call him when they did have a price. They never called. He never want back.
There is a story out of Oakland that a while ago, like maybe 20 years, Sonny B owned a shop that sold used bikes but wanted to become a dealer to sell new bikes. HD refused saying he didin't represent the kind of image they wanted to associate with.
I would much rather have an old clunker than anything they're putting out now. It's not just the cost, Harley's have always been "Yesterday's technology at tomorrow's prices" - They don't have any soul and I'd go Japanese as my first choice. Honda, Kawasaki and Yamaha have gone above and beyond with their cruisers, the Bolt is the Sportster +. Now people who say that Japanese bikes don't have a soul have never ridden a Fireblade (which is motorcycle perfection). The soul of a bike comes from the heart of those who built it and I don't think anyone at Harley gives a damn anymore. The guys in charge certainly don't
Harley is hedging their bets on rich folks that buy a new bike every few years and they almost don't act like they want any working class folks business anymore.
You are 100% correct. Across the board. The fire blade is perfection. So is the zx6r and the busa. If you haven't ridden one and been able to handle it you have zero clue. It's all soul. It's just perfectly engineered.
8:41 I personally don't care for the technology. I want analog gauges driven by speedo and tach cables, carburetors, air cooled, throtle cables, maybe an oil cooler, and that's about it.
Automobiles needed technology you get them from 7mpg guzzlers to 25+ mpg. My first Harley, a 1991 Electra Glide Sport (FLHS) got over 50 mpg. My twin cam will get 40mpg if I go really easy on the throttle. So what has the tech gained us? More horse power? My 80 cubic inch Evo had plenty. These aren't racing bikes, they're cruisers.
I agree I've never understood to chase for more hp in a cruiser . 80 evo did great for a long time .
I've got sportbikes for speed .
@@leifleblanc160 that's right. I've never been a sport bike rider but when I want to go fast I park the Caddy and take the Saab out for a top-down spin through the mountains.
Yeah! I ride a 1998 Suzuki intruder 1500 , those newer Harleys fly past me but I really don't need any more power than that old Suzuki has .
IF HD goes under, then the CEO did what he was installed to do
Vanguard and BlackRock.
Absolutely, there is an agenda here and the end game is the end of private motoring of any kind. The rulers and key shareholders will get their money and power even if they lose some company. It’s all just collateral damage.
As many CEOs are paid to do.
I´m a Triumph rider living in Europe, but when I go to the US I always hire a Harley as I love them. In my opinion, what Harley got wrong is what Triumph got right. Triumph kept their classics like the Bonnie and the Scrambler, but at the same time innovated with new bikes. I ride a Tiger GT Pro and it has the same three cylinder concept that my Trident had in 1978 (I´m 64) which I love. Triumph has managed to combine the classic look and feel that customers like me go for with modernity. I mean I have a TFT screen on my Tiger, but if I squint sideways I can still see the rev counter my Bonnie had in ´81. So you have the young guys going for the street triples and the off road (in my case I live in the sticks so it´s not a choice). But I´m sorry to say, without wishing to offend, that the new Harleys look like mutants of the old ones, not improved versions of them. They also sound nothing like the Electraglides I used to hire to do Route 1 anymore. They sound like bottled farts, I´m sorry.
Good points! If there was an old school,Harley in the range, I’d buy it.
Walked into my local HD dealer near Tacoma WA, I was looking at the new Pan America because I like ADV bikes, I asked the tatted salesman if I could take it on a test ride and he said, “Sure, if you got $22,000!” From that day I will never walk into another HD dealership! I’m not in the game to buy an image, I buy motorcycles!
I thinks it's a major mix of all of those things truly. Over priced, under appreciation from corporate HD, lack of listening to the customers and basically killing someone whos financially not well from ever having the chance to get a nice traveling bike for decent price.
Well Harley’s customers are actually the dealers and they demand each dealer buys a certain amount to sell or else lose their franchise store. Then the dealer tries to ram even higher prices up our rumps. This business plan is crumbling now and I’m glad. We are tired of being ripped off. Nice video on this topic man. Fairly laid out and explained.
Thank you! With the Sportster what it is now there's really no incentive for someone to buy a new Harley if you're in the entry level price market.
Agree, but todays HD Dlrs have become corporate owned by the same people owning auto dlrs to cash into HD. Very few Independant (Ma & Pop shops) remain. The service experience today is typically not what we enjoyed in the past. With HD's reduced vehicle sales declining since 2008 (profit's still up) these corporate owned dlrs may jump ship and fewer dlrs will be available. Sad to see the direction & decline of HD.
I was at the local Harley dealer talking to a salesperson there. I had bought a Triumph at another store belonging to the same owner but was looking for a helmet. The salesman was saying the same thing. There's no entry level Harleys and that's really hurting them. The old Sportster had gotten way too expensive, while falling further behind in performance, so they had to do something. Problem is, the replacement, while a much nicer bike, is now way more expensive than the old Sportster. So their "entry point" is now around $15k once you add on all the fees. They need a competitive entry level bike. Look at what Triumph did with the Speed 400. $6k or so out the door, and you're riding a cool looking and nice performing machine that brings you into the brand. You step up from there. It seems like Harley has become the Jeep of the motorcycle industry. They're finding out too late that there is a limit to what people are willing to pay, and they have no plan B The result: a lot of unsold bikes and a company in crisis. Sad.
About a year or two ago, Harley had a proposed model called the Bronx, which I was interested in, but then they never produced it after what the CEO and chairman of the board have done. I am no longer interested in Harley Davidson.
I’ve owned 6 Harley’s from Sportster to Street Glide. I switched to BMW after the issues with the clutch oil migration with the m8 engine. I really love Harley’s but there’s just nothing in their line up that wants me to purchase a new one. I ride a K1600b at the moment and handles better than any Harley. That said it’s the old adage, if I had to explain, you wouldn’t understand. Unfortunately Europe emissions and the banning of new petrol and diesel vehicles that will kill off Harley in the Uk. Dealers are already closing down and it’s such a shame. If the bikes were not as expensive and Harley like Triumph played on their heritage I’m sure things could be better. I also think the CEO has got it all wrong, stick to sports wear, you’re not cut out for motorcycles.
The downfall of Harley-Davidson number one is the customer service and warranty and they have failed dramatically on that..
The guys that can afford a new Harley every couple of years, are still going to buy a new Harley every couple of years. The rest of us will buy a used one. Most new riders are going to buy sport bikes, dirt bikes, adventure bikes, or scooters.
That's exactly what Harley is banking on, they are losing a huge market on the regular working folks out there.
Plenty of affordable cruisers and standard bikes out there for people too, just not from HD lol
I bought a Triumph Trident 660 & Love it!
Triumph and Indian Scouts are retro cruisers with all the amenities for less money. I was looking at some 10 year old used Kawasakis, Hondas , Triumphs, Yamaha big displacement cruisers at very reasonable prices.
@@StingerPat That's what I bought due to price but sadly nerve damage in my clutch hand I'll be getting a Can-Am Spyder Would love to get a Indian but clutch hands not getting any better
Honda has a bike for you from your childhood until you decide to retire from riding.
They really do, the only thing they haven't done is make a factory GoldWing Trike.
My Honda is midway through. I kept it, 1982 Gold Wing. Still has the cassette deck. Up in the air now needs carbs. In order, HD, dyna glide with the shovel engine. OOps. Next was a 1958 Trumpet, another oops., Magna and 1100 shadow were next. Followed by the Wing. Then I got the 2004 HD Springer Standard, good bike, loved it. Then we learned of the cam followers grenading at 40K. HD's other problem. The engineering mistakes are on the customer. So Rick Kosco was just giving us the parts at his cost. $1200.00, but it's a do it yourself. In 2015 I wanted the Grandpa Cruiser, IE: Ultra Glide. Well the other issue is the dealers. 5K was what they offered for a bike with the last factory installed chrome springer. Called Indian, $8200.00 over the phone, $8500.00 when they saw it. Home run. The 1K for military and 15% of anything factory they would install. Picked it up on my 57th birthday and rode the beast to Sturgis. NEVER looked back.
@@GixxerFoo I am 70 with advanced heart disease, just could not force myself on a trike. Instead I bought a smaller bike, easier to handle, and I am loving the bike.
Brought to you from the same folks that gave us Pearl Harbor!
@@walkingwolf8072 Hip, shoulders and a new stent. I feel ya.
I've got an idea...Dump Buell as soon as they get momentum, and a few years later focus on electric motorcycles.
I agree 100% on pricing themselves out. We love riding and would love a new bike but realistically I can’t justify owning one newer than like 10 years old.
HD Incorporated has been increasingly out of touch since 1999. The Motor Company no longer exists in its true form. FHD, FU2 Jochen.
Saying bye bye to Eric Buell was their demise
110% agree, he took the Sportster to levels never imagined.
I don't know why people think that, the Buell division lost money every year it was running. Then Buell went broke on his own with EBR, which is now just using his name. He's now grifting electric bicycles and that will be broke in a few years.
Buell filled a niche for HD. It gave them an entre nous into sport touring bikes and racing.
While not as profitable as HD's, Buell was a gateway product to get guys into the dealership who would never come in for an HD. HD had to look at Buell as a cost of doing business, much like racing.
@@Scott-ph2yk
Maybe on the moco level... Not sure if you were in the market and in their doors then, it was a long time ago. I know here in So Cal (I'm sure everywhere, they all tend to be the same) in the era of Buell the HD dealers treated you like a leper. They genuinely wanted nothing to do with Buell buyers. I wasn't interested in HD at the time, but would of bought a Buell. Their attitude pushed me out their doors back then and stayed on sportbikes.
@@highwayman1218 🤣🤣🤣 Are you familiar with the old saw, "the true test of a man's intelligence is when they come to the same conclusion as others..." You hit it right on the head! I actually went to look at buying an XB12R back in 2005 or so, after following the Buell journey through the S models in the 90's. My experience at two different HD dealers was bad. They wanted to sell me away from Buell to an HD. "Leprosy" is a good description.
Disgusted, I left, never to return.
I still think Buells are cool bikes, but HD will never see a dime from me. 😉
Two things are killing the moco in my opinion:
The money they want for a new bike (when you can get a better non HD bike, for less)
They lost their "image", by limiting support on the HOG network. Like it or not-that marketing strategy was brilliant. People who were brand loyal, hundreds of thousands strong, free advertising. Being a member used to have a lot of benefits-group rides, rallies, awards, etc. These days, its a patch and a pin. Very little corporate support.
I can't remember the last time I've seen a HOG chapter on the road individually or in a group.
Harley cannot compete with other bike brands on price, or quality. Once the older Harley cult is gone, Harley will never compete for the younger market.
Why do you think they supported SOA tv show? Trying to push younger folks into the 1 percent cult that only allows Harleys. Problem is the young can't afford the dues, and an expensive bike, nor do they have what it takes to be a 1 percent.
I was at our Indian dealer yesterday for our riders group meeting and ride, the sales manager said August was a very good month for Indian sales and 30% of the sales were to Harley riders. He also said when he called the local Harley dealers to get numbers for trade ins they are not giving numbers due to being flooded with bikes.
For the price of a new Harley (bagger)… you can buy a top tier compact (Japanese) car… 🤷🏽
I buy used ones for 1/3rd the price, best part is most these guys dont put harrdly any miles on them, I think they just use them as a prop most the time.
To me, Harley shot it's wad back in the '80s when it went "boutique" and ran all of the mom and pop shops outta business.
This move changed the entire face of the machine, and the lifestyle in general.
I've owned 20 Harleys over 40yrs, not one bought new, and I've always done my own mechanic and customization, work, without giving the company a second thought.
I love the machine, the way it looks, smells, sounds, and feels, and that overrides everything else, and I'm not about to burn my shirts or trash a bike to make a meaningless point.
To me, people are overreacting by putting the machine aside and responding to and getting entangled in political shit.
Ride your bike, enjoy your life, ignore the bullshit, and just quit giving them business.
This is earth, and shit's gonna be what it's gonna be.
Ride Safe.
Good video, as usual.👍
My thoughts exactly. I dislike the Moco, but love the machines.
@@kevinhgreaves
.I've been riding for 51 yrs this year, the last 40 on Harley's, and it's been about the machine and the lifestyle, to hell with everything else.
Life has enough trouble without "borrowing" more.
Ride safe, my friend.👍
What lifestyle? Harley is the LGBTQ lifestyle now. 😂
It's a 24/7 rolling queer pride parade everywhere a Harley exists.
Have fun with your new "lifestyle".
HD used to sell smaller motorcycles. 165cc, 250cc and so on in the 40's through 70's. Although in the 70's they were not made by Harley, they were made by Aermacchis and badged HD.
So when I bought my first bike in the 80's it was a mid size Honda.
So this trend of HD eliminating new riders has been going on for 50 plus years.
When I worked at the local H-D Dealership, I didn't sell bikes, I helped people buy them. Now they sell bikes. Not many enjoyed the process of buying a car at a dealership, but they loved going to the Harley dealership . The lines have been blurred and the experiences now feel the same, and I'm sure not many people just hang out at the Kia dealership on a Saturday. Harley was built on passion and its being stomped into..."what's it gonna take, to get you on this bike today" .
My understanding is that a decent amount of dealerships have been bought up by the big local car dealership conglomerate and that is partially where these tactics come from. The finance offices and managers that are used to managing a car dealership...sad really. For many this is the first experience they get with HD...car dealership sales pressures.
Harley never had me, and I've been riding since 1980. I used to warch my dad file the points, reground a bad ground, split the cases to diagnose why it slipped out of second gear. Are Harley's supposed to leak oil?
He spent more time fisdling with the bike than riding it. Honda doesnt do that to their customers. Kick and go.
Do you honestly think things never change? Ask owners of the Honda Rebel 1100 with the incurable oil leak how they feel about Honda reliability. And I've never had a serious problem with any of the three modern Harleys I've owned.
I think Royal Enfield is doing what Harley should be doing. They are putting out retro styled bikes with modern amenities. Their pricing is reasonable as well. The new Sportster looks like a cartoon.
Harley is building a new entry level bike in China just like Royal Enfield and the KTM 390. It is going to be sold in the Asian markets not USA. Harley gave up on the people that made them what they were.
The pricing on RE can be very deceptive. Here in New Hampshire, they're adding $1000 to MSRP to get it out the door - it's not the bargain that it appears to be. Worse yet, the 600 mile service on the 350 singles is $500-600. That's a helluva hit two weeks after you forked over six grand for a five grand bike!
Harley doesn’t care about their classic bikes. Dealers are like oh that’s junk. We don’t work on them.
Lol, they'll be saying the same thing about the current models in a few years, if they're still around.
They don't actually have any mechanics on staff. They have high-school dropouts who took a course on how to replace parts on particular machines. If you drive in on a pre-2000 bike they're going to point at the carb and say, "What's that?" True story. You'd be better off taking your old bike, even a HD, to an honest Mexican mechanic who operates out of a shed. Mexicans can fix anything. They'll even fabricate the part right there out of junk if they have to. HD is nothing more than a giant marketing scam appealing to not-very-savvy guys with more money than sense who think a motorcycle makes them tough.
After 3 years no parts from hardly davidson
100% true...personaly I wouldn't take them my bike ...too long to fix...too expensive...an they act like the bikes from an outher century...Disgusting....
@@froglaps40 They won't care because they will be drinking 'Mai-Tai's' offshore.
Back in 1993 I bough a new FXR Super Glide for my sixtieth birthday. That was when people were having to wait 6 or 8 months, maybe more for a new bike. I wanted black so I only waited about 4 months for it. Fabulous bike looked great and ran like a clock, a really fast clock. I paid $10,000 for it. I still have it and it still looks and run great. Unfortunately my son won't let me ride it anymore. The new Harley's don't do anything for me at all. The good old days are gone.
I'm a Sporty guy. I had a 93 I bought new. That being said your FXR is the only Bigtwin I would own.
Time to trade in the son. I ride an 08 1200 sportster and I love it and will ride till I cant do so safetly no matter what anyone says. And I ride mostly with my 2 sons,
@@richardatyeo9903 I'm 88, he said it's time for me to hang it up. He rides it though.
@@grandpadean4971 Your absolutely right. I was 57. See what happens when you get older.
@@justtim9767
I thought you said you was 16 in 1993 it’s 2024 you should be 47
Right on the mark. That's why I gave up on HD after having the 2019 FLSTC 114. Price vs value is out of control.
Harley's leadership does not understand or respect the brand or the culture
They have always been expensive and poorly made. The problem is their Boomer demographic is literally dying and younger buyers are better educated and have better options. To anyone under 50, Harley Davidson is a meme.
@@truantray Have you ever owned a Harley, or are you just running your mouth.
@@truantray I see more younger riders on Harleys than in years past. Motorcycling overall is in a slump.
I guess I have never known anyone who bought a brand new H-D as their entry level machine. Me, my brothers, my friends, we all bought used. I’ve owned a few Sportys, my wife and son both started on Sportsters, but they were bought used too. Never considered a warranty or service contract as a benefit, I would never let anyone else turn a wrench on my machine anyways. I find it harder to relate to riders these days. They make bike payments, they don’t work on their bikes, and they look like they buy their complete wardrobe at the H-D dealer. To be honest I would have to say H-D has been losing me for years with their business model. I think I’m just not their target consumer anymore. Maybe I never was?
Rem I had to laugh when I read your comment. I was sitting in a diner a few years ago and several folks walked in, They had leather EVERYTHING, they even had leather tassels on the handle bars looked like contestants on the price is right. People have the right to do what they like but I think they are missing the big picture.
Blessings to all.
Yeah, you're the real ",man"...and the stereotypical judgemental type that turns people off Harley.
Ha Ha. I feel stupid. Wearing a leather jkt when out on my FB.
I wear one obviously for proptection ,but i wear a 20 year old army combat jkt over the top.
@@rickybobby6760 Thanks johnnybilly because of real bikers like yourself I never have to pay even near face value for motorcycle stuff like bikes and riding gear. 2-3 years they sell it all for a song and a dance, Please please continue.
Well I never said you shouldn’t wear leather. I don’t ride without it (most of the time). No tassels, but I guess if you want tassels then by all means you go for it. I am just saying that people seem more concerned with looking like a stereotypical biker. Well I can’t imagine anyone being called a biker who doesn’t wrench on their own machine. I guess I am too old, maybe it’s a holdover from growing up poor. I just can’t imagine dropping my bike off to get an oil change. I think my wife would divorce me.
Great video once again...
Big thumbs up for the channel...
😎👍
Thank you 👍
Love this guy's content!. Waiting for some gixxerfoo swag to come out😀
What most people are forgetting here is, tighter emissions and government regulations have made the “air cooled” bikes disappear. The CEO wants Harley to go 100% electric. That WILL be their downfall. I own a 2022 sportster 48. The dealer tried their hardest to get me into a nightster and sportster s. I said hell no. The reason I bought a Harley is for that classic sound, that stripped down basic type feeling. The rumble and the nostalgia.
If they go all electric as they state they want to they really will be dead to me. No interest in riding something that sounds like it is powered by a large electric drill...
I'm 70 an still love riding Sportsters. Though my wife says I'm too old to ride them. What? wut? Are the cops going to card me? "Sorry sir but you are too old to ride this bike." Maybe I'll only ride it at night and stay on my big twins during daylight hours. IDK. And yes, you are right again. The new bikes are priced waayyy too high to even consider buying one. Although, after many years of cooking my private parts, I might be interested in a water cooled bagger.
Jeez she says u r too old !
I am 83 and on a FB
"WHY WOULD YOU CHANGE IT. . . . .IF IT'S WORKING?" That's a crucial statement that a lot of companies are being hurt by and and continue in their ways despite. Why change it? because every new CEO that comes into a new company comes in with the advantage of the success of their predecessor, however, that's not good enough, they have to make a name for themselves. Most CEOs feel that if they're brought on it's because the company is going in the wrong direction, which for the consumer, it usually isn't, until changes start to be made and history is wiped away because that's the past and the new CEO is the future and their ideas are better than what founded the company who's heritage they are now inheriting by title. Even Honda kept the same engine and bike lines for decades until the last few years when they started redoing the rebel line. They're redesigning so much of what people liked about their bikes trying to entice newer younger riders, when the LIFESTYLE of riding a motorcycle (the danger, the look, the sound, the excitement) doesn't appeal to them. Being an elder millennial i feel like there should be more of us riding but would rather buy their starbucks instead. I personally love the batwing fairing, bagger, chromed out, cushy "old man" bikes that harley has made for so long. It has more american heritage than the sport bikes they're trying to imulate. If I could've gotten a Heritage Classic new at 22K for what I got my honda shadow new at 8K, that would've been what I went with, but I bought my bike first and foremost on the budget I could afford. HD has long forgotten that people don't just have money to throw around on a bike they'll have to sell when they can't make the payments. Very good video btw
I walked into a Harley-Davidson dealership with 22,000 to spend cash! He said he had to order the bike cuz there wasn't any bikes! The door to the back was open and I looked through and saw a bike and I said hey what about that bike can I buy that bike and he slammed the door on me and said; "That's somebody else's bike we're working on". And I thought that was pretty suspicious behavior two weeks later he was arrested for chopping bikes up! 🤷🏻♂️ I ended up buying a Kawasaki KLR 650 20 ft jon boat with a 30 horse Johnson and a trailer and still had money left over! 🤔
I've had a KLR650 since 2003. It lives, it breathes, it's still doing fine. You made a wise choice.
@@GrayWolf-745 The original adventure bike! Took me on many adventures.
Cool starry bra!
As an old man I can say that Harley's image is that it's a bike for old men/people. Rarely do you see a 20 something riding one and when you do it's usually with other young riders on sports bikes that are more nimble and quicker than the Harley. Why pay $40k for a heavy bike when you can get performance, handling and reliability for less than half the price?
Harley has always been expensive for what you get.
I did purchase a new v-twin motorcycle and it wasn't a Harley. I bought a new Moto Guzzi V100S Mandello. I'm happy with my purchase!
Moto Guzzi is moving forward while Harley Davidson commits suicide 😢
HD would do much better if they would just go back to actual classics. The new styles just don't have that old HD vibe. Go back to the old styles, and make them more reliable and more affordable. New does not always mean better.
It was the history and tradition that drew riders to HD, not the quality or reliability. There are much better riding and more reliable motorcycles.
Just spent some money on my 103 and in the last week I've added Zippers Red Shift cams, Fueling lifters, Thundermax tuner, full Vance and Hines exhaust set up, K and N intake, this bike is now super awesome. I don't care at all for a new Harley
Going woke didn't help Harley either, they should stay out of politics and just build bikes.
@@joe1940 Only idiots use the term Woke 8n a derogatory manner
Serious question…what happened Harley was always the most racist brand out there?
I'm satisfied with my old school shovelhead and 08 twin cam 96. Ride on.🍻
I was at a dealership yesterday and looked at new baggers and along with a good chance of experiencing sumping, I don't like the new bags, even thought they hold more. Also the new fairing is not as graceful as the original Batwing. They are ridiculously expensive.
The new ones just aren't as appealing as the older bikes even with some of the practical features like the bags.
Harley has forgotten about their actual customers.
They have and they act like no one else is going to take up that space.
You are absolutely spot on PRICE!!! and let's not forget about their labor costs either.
HD bikes jumped the shark about 10 years ago. Then they built those retail Taj Mahal stores full of t-shirts and toys. The death knell was this j/o CEO and electric crap.
Today's Harley is a collection of government regulations on two wheels.
That's pretty much all they are anymore trying to keep up with emissions crap.
Never heard it said quite like that. Perfectly said.
Government worries about a two cylinder engine polluting up the air when there are eight cylinder cars out there doing the same. A motorcycle probably puts out less pollution without emission controls than your Honda Prius riding around.
EV's aren't any better it's just creatively moving the emissions from the tailpipe to somewhere else@@joetroutt7425
When it's all said and done it's not really about the environment. Electric crap cars and motorcycles and the lithium battery requirements along with solid waste from innumerable spent batteries is BAD for the environment. IT IS ABOUT POLITICS, NEW WEALTH TO BE MADE, WHILE LYING TO HUMANITY.
I have owned 4 Harley's: two Evo sportsters and two Road Kings. Both models have been discontinued ( Road King Special is a shameful parody).
If I buy another bike, it will be used. It will be an Evo sportster or Road King. I absolutely love the way those models function.
I don't need a TV screen with ride modes and a stadium grade sound system. I got my first Road King in 2018 for 14k after corporate and dealer discounts. Deals like that just don't have the same impact anymore.
ditto , sold my 03 RK with 118,000 miles and bought a nice low mileage 04 883. Age had a lot to do with that but we all get old eventually
MSRP for that Road King with black paint is 25500$ before freight and set up. Out the door you are looking 30K now.
I had 2 sportsters and a wide glide evo for 18 years .They have gone .
On a 2002 FB now .Be my last bike at age 83
Three hds. All flh. I dont count my 48 pan in this discussion. After bad service record,loose valve guides,bad electrics,saddle bags w the tops flying off bad woodruff keys in the oil pump etc etc went bmw. Never turned back. HD never gave a rats rear end if I ever got home much less out of the garage. And yes 2 of those were evos. My 1970 bmw will run forever. Harleys sit and drip.
After test riding the 2023 Indian Challenger Dark Horse and the Harley Road Glide, I decided to go with the Indian.
3000+ miles later, I love my Indian!
Spot on. I went backwards. Sold my 103 TC Road Glide and went to an Evo Softail. Not one regret.
You kickstart a panhead or an early shovel, you hear Jimi Hendrix. You wake up an EVO, you’re giving your clothes, your boots and your motorcycle. This is not “old school”, this is a solid legend. You can’t compare anything to those Harley Davidsons. Everything has its glory time, we can’t really help it in any way. Younger folks can only “cosplay” riding new bikes. What we old motormen testified, were steel horses. And a cowboy knows the difference. There is only one thing fair in all that: unlike modern rides, old harleys were born to last forever. They can tolerate a ton of rebuilds. Of course, they need a rider, not a wannabe sunday-once in a year user. You don’t know how to ride, you’re riding a coffin. I can only suggest this to youngsters: Invest your money, learn to ride, and ride a legend. Pick up an old harley and rebuild totally. You will agree with me. Ride safe and ride hard. ✌️
not a wannabe sunday-once in a year user HAhahaha always got to be one in the crowd, Tell me how many times or miles do I have to ride to be a real biker like you.
"I need your clothes, your boots, and your motorcycle"...😆
@@davebrookbank4831 that was un called for
Quick, copyright what you wrote! Your paragraph would make an awesome song.
you didnt say please
This company seems determined to destroy themselves 🤷🏻♂️
Always thought they were ugly, loud and over priced. All of the "popular" ones. I said this years ago, HD was relying on its history and nostalgia. Jokes on them.
Harley dealers drove customers away long before this. I have never been treated as badly by any store, let alone a dealership, than when I went to buy my Harley decades ago. Worse than a used car lot. I ended up buying low mileage used instead, and buy my parts online from 3rd party sellers. Harley Corp. never got another dime from me directly, never will.
At 65, I just bought my first, and probably only HD. Price has always kept me from buying one. I rode my 1994 Honda Shadow my Brother gave me for my Birthday in 2011 for 13 years, before recently buying a used 2012 HD Heritage Classic with 16000 miles, in Tequila Sunrise & HD Orange. I got a good deal on it. Love your channel, thanks for all your information.
If you can wrench. Build one way cheaper. Buy an older one and go thru it.
I am thru with Harley Davidson after 53 years of loyalty I'm done I don't even care to ride anymore period ADIOS Harley Davidson.
I’m glad I got my 16’ Street Bob when I did.
You and I both, after 2016 it just went to pot.
My newest bike is a 2016 Fat Bob, and that will be the newest H-D I ever own. I’m going to be going backwards from here and getting carburated Evo’s from now on.
Good Day 🌅, Friday as come and gone, I hope you are keeping safe and well, from France
We didn't have a new video last week, had been some wild fires and then a tornado/straight line wins in an neighboring town.
@@GixxerFoo sorry to hear that, I hope nobody got hurt, I have looked at it as property can be rebuilt , but it’s lives are more important, as we are only here once, over the last 10 years I have been scammed by my ex female partner, being burgled and lost somewhere between 15 and €20,000 of tools and equipment, oh and I forgot to mention in 2022 I had a heart attack, But I’m still here and I’m back on my bike for a bike shall I say?,
I hope you’re all okay , And if I could get across there, I’ll give you a hand to sort things out, Look forward to next weeks, from France,
Triumph seems to understand the market much better than HD, they have sold 50,000 of their new street and scrambler 400cc motorcycles. They are fun little bikes that have the retro appeal with modern technology under $5000.00. The local dealer sells them before they can even be put on the floor.
It’s just the price $$ 26k starting for a Road King ridiculous! On top of that the paint schemes are basic for that $$$$
30,000 + for a new bike, then you should upgrade cam chest because of sumping. Man that sounds like a great idea. NOT FOR ME! Many more other manufactures to choose from.
I test rode a pan american yesterday that has to be one of the best bikes in its class. Absollutly loved it wish I could afford one. Just bought a new KLR wish I would have rode it first only problem I can buy three KLRs for one pan american.
Not a coincidence... harley has purposely been sabotaging the company for years. My opinion
I pinning my hopes on AMF buying them again to prove that history is really a flat circle.
I agree, “entry level” prices are nuts. RevMax “Sportsters”… would never buy one, so they’re out of the equation. $14,999.00 for a Softail Standard (before tax, title, etc). No way, especially for what you get. Buyer’s market right now. Because I’m looking, I’m finding a lot of nice Evo Sportsters out there at reasonable prices. Just having trouble finding the color I want.
NEVER EVER even WANTED a Harley EVER...... and Yea, I do not finance a lifestyle, I finance Ride-Style. Faster than F**k works for me every time and Harley hasn't been fast EVER.
V-Rods were fast enough. If you need to go faster on the street you have a death wish.
👍🏽💪🏽
I still have my 77 AMF XLH Sportster which I bought new. I finished with H-D when I bought my 95 Evo FLSTN....just love it! Was thinking of buying a Pan America but bought a Triumph Bonneville Speedmaster instead. Until they get ride of their CEO and Board I won't buy as much as a T-Shirt from them!
Younger riders are not attracted to Harley Davidson, and older riders are aging out and selling their bikes, so the market is well supplied with very nice used Harley's that can save half the cost of a new one, and not be meaningfully different in styling or technology. A Ducati Mulitstrada V4 costs about $27,000 and it is the most popular Ducati being sold, and Ducati sales have been growing year over year (up 11% in 2023). Harley's changing fortunes are not primarily the result of HD pricing, it is the result of changing demographics. If Ducati can sell every Multistrada it makes for $27K, one has to ask if price is the real issue, and I don't think it is.
The Harley subculture has also taken its toll. In the 1970's and 80's I saw lots of folks get into the Harley culture scene for for a few years or even decades only to suddenly get the hell out, quickly. For me, it was the infamous 1995 Quebec biker wars, the Robert Pickton (Piggy's Palace) serial murder trial and a few bad personal encounters with shady characters, forced me to have second thoughts about the whole Harley scene I once embraced. By the late 1990's I completely lost interest the Harley Davidson brand. I think the Harley subculture has slowly fallen off as well.
CEO , Is the company problem!!!!🤷♂️
how does harley expect for a newbie to buy an entry level bike at those prices…they’re not living in our reality
CEO needs to be gone! Just now ordered the new Buell super cruiser ffff HD!
Problem with Harley-Davidson is management
Glad your back bro. Sorry for your loss in the family
when a motorcycle cost more than a new muscle car.
I love Harley-Davidson and own 2 of them BUT now that the price has dubble on EVERYTHING I don't buy there products if I absolutely don't have to