ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 27 ส.ค. 2024
- The Bobruysk Offensive and the Destruction of the German Ninth Army
With Prit Buttar
Operation Bagration Week
• Operation Bagration
Part of our ongoing Eastern Front series on WW2TV
• Eastern Front Week
Also part of our 80th Anniversary Series
• 80th Anniversary Special
The Bobruysk offensive was part of the Belorussian strategic offensive of the Red Army in summer 1944, commonly known as Operation Bagration. In less than a week in late June 1944, the Soviet 3rd Army broke through in the north of the sector, trapping the German XXXV Corps against the Berezina. The 65th Army then broke through the XXXXI Panzer Corps to the south; by 27 June, the two German corps were encircled in a pocket east of Bobruysk under constant aerial bombardment. During this offensive, the German 9th Army suffered nearly 80,000 casualties during Bagration of which 65,000 were taken prisoner. Nearly 40% of the 9th Army was destroyed in the summer of 1944. The army was then rebuilt by German units redeployed from Italy and was involved in the defence of Warsaw in autumn and winter of 1944.
Prit's previous appearances:
80th Anniversary of the end of the Siege of Leningrad
th-cam.com/users/li...
80th Anniversary of Operation Iskra - Leningrad, January 1943
www.youtube.co...
Zhukov's Disastrous Rzhev/Sychevka Campaigns
www.youtube.co...
The Vyazma Airborne Operation (Red Army Paratroops)
www.youtube.co...
6 Panzer Division at Verkhne Kumsky - Operation Winter Storm
www.youtube.co...
The Lithuanian Holocaust. Murderers, heroes, and victims
www.youtube.co...
Prit's books:
Meat Grinder: The Battles for the Rzhev Salient, 1942-43
UK uk.bookshop.or...
USA bookshop.org/a...
To Besiege a City: Leningrad 1941-42 by Prit Buttar
UK uk.bookshop.or...
USA bookshop.org/a...
Retribution: The Soviet Reconquest of Central Ukraine, 1943
UK uk.bookshop.or...
USA hardback bookshop.org/a...
USA paperback bookshop.org/a...
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I know you get told this all the time, but Prit Buttar really is one of the best guests you have on. Engaging, articulate, and passionate on an area of the conflict that not many have a great deal of knowledge on. Fantastic.
I was just about to add a similar comment. This man is highly intelligent, well-organized, extremely knowledgeable, and knows how to make it interesting. Thanks Dr. Buttar and Woody.
Prit is the man! God Bless Woody for having him on so much!! WW2TV the best in the business!!
Prit is the diamond rockstar of WW2TV, hands down & bar none. Absolute gold every time he's on! Thank you again, Woody for having him on!
What an amazing lecture.
Prit Buttar is a superstar
Another fantastically engaging presentation by Dr. Buttar. He’s one of those people like Niels Henkemans, like Steven Zaloga, like Michael Neiberg with complete mastery of their subject. The information they draw from memory is so extensive it continually amazes me.
the wonderful prit delivers another masterpiece. thank you WW2TV
Another masterclass from a real master. There are some people you just sit back and listen to; the depth of whose knowledge there for all to see. Prit Buttar is one such man. Thank you both.
Another outstanding show from Prit Buttar. I enjoyed a glas of Balblair while watching.
Prit is a national treasure -- thank you again for bringing him on, this is outstanding content
I had to delay my comments until I returned from work, but MAN did Prit bring home the enormous scale of this offensive! I also couldn't believe how Hitler and the OKH just never seemed to learn the lessons of the past two years. Allowing no flexibility to the Commanders on the spot is simply a recipe for disaster. It's obvious that they never read Sun Tzu. I shall look forward to the book release.
Wonderful discussion. I think Bagration is incredibly downplayed given the events that happened earlier in June '44. I think public consciousness should be aware at the gravity of the crisis when Army Group Center effectively gets destroyed.
fabulous stream, extremely well detailed and excellently narrated by Prit.
To understand the facts of summer 1944 in Belarus we must check the victoriuos defensive battles of the fall of 1943 in the same frontlines and the sense of security they created on the commanders of Army Group Center
I love Pritt’s badger pictures in the background.
Congratulations to Prit Buttar and we expect this new book impatiently
Another fantastic presentation from Prit, though I would contest the idea at the beginning that a withdrawal to the Berezina would have changed the outcome of Bagration. Here is an extended quote on the proposed withdrawal from an article addressing the German defeat in Bagration:
"The troops would have had to surrender relatively well-prepared
positions that they had occupied for many months and pull back to river
lines, which were completely unfortified and offered little natural impedi-
ment to the enemy. As precarious as their positions along the balcony may
have been, to abandon them offered no safety and indeed exposed them to
further dangers. All that would have been accomplished was that the Ger-
mans would have been 25-50 miles further west when “Bagration” was
launched. This would have been at best a tactical victory (the first blows
would have fallen on empty positions) and the shortening of the lines may
have permitted the formation of a small reserve, but the strategic situation
would have remained unchanged. The Germans would still have been fac-
ing a powerful enemy, but this time along a less defensible line. With-
drawal from the balcony would thus not have altered the strategic realities
at the front, but rather, given the chronic German failure to prepare
adequate defensive lines to the rear, would have placed the units in
extremely dangerous and unfortified positions. This is not to suggest that
the river lines were less advantageous than the balcony, as clearly they
would have been powerful positions had the Germans the time and inclina-
tion to develop them, but the rivers did not offer a strategic solution to the
immense difficulties facing Army Group Center. The hope of a with-
drawal before “Bagration” was a chimera which would not have given the
Germans the ability to effectively counter the Soviet attack and most
likely would not have resulted in a significantly different outcome."
The article goes on to highlight the profound material differences between the Red Army and the Wehrmacht. (For example, a single Soviet rifle corps had roughly the same number of combat personnel as the entire 9th Army!)
The article is "Explaining Defeat: A Reappraisal of 'Operation
Bagration,' 1944" from the Journal of Slavic Military Studies. A fantastic read if you can access it, as it really highlights the magnitude of Soviet preparations for Bagration and their skill in employing concentrations of force in this offensive.
Thanks again for having Prit on. I eagerly await his coming book on Bagration!
Pit is such a good presenter. Thanks very much.
Another excellent video, love Pritt
Excellent work! I enjoyed the glimpses into the lives and personalities of the commanders involved-sometimes a commander's disposition can affect the entire battle.
Another superb show thank you.
Well, I newer heard about that "attack from the right" for air to ground attack. Though I seen quite a bit materials on it. Actually all soviet materials from 1943 made a particular point on "point to and attack particular target, do not attack column as just a column". Last thing (exactly like gunning along road) was found particularly ineffective. That sort of common misunderstanding geometry of attack, when people think it can gun along road. When in reality plane coming in particular angle (from 15 to 30 degree) and gunning basically at one point.
What Prit might refer to is particularly attack tanks with a guns. That was recommended from the side with simple point of side armor been much thinner and target projection - wider.
Thanks for the clarification
Would love to see Prit discuss Manstein, Model, Zhukov et al.
Zhukov for example has definitely come up in Prit's previous shows
@WW2TV his views on Zhukov, Manstein and Model in particular always raise interesting points. I was thinking a deep dive into the estimate Prits research on these officers might make for a very informative show?
Great to hear Pritt is coming out with some new books.
A very good book on the battle for Berlin is A. Stephan Hamilton’s “Bloody Streets”. He also did “The Oder Front”. Would be great if he could be a guest on the channel.
As Salaam alaykum Woody and Pritt. Thank you for this presentation of a still relatively unknown campaign. Thank you from Australia. X warahmatullah barakatuh. Abe
Absolutely fantastic. Loved this presentation.
Napoleon invaded Russia on June 24, Barbarossa started on June 22, Fall Blau started on June 28 . It's often no coincidence that large offensives start on or near the same day, but it's not (only) for historical reasons.
It's not a 1:365 chance, it often narrows down to only a few weeks (days really) that are viable. In Russia, you're always bounded by the spring and autumn Rasputitsa's. So the only feasible period to start is at the end of spring, that gives you all summer. Then there's a small period between autumn and winter. The only randomness are delays and weather and that kind of stuff.
On the other hand, if you're always bound to a small number of days it may be beneficial to choose one with historical symbolism.
I think that's it. It was obvious that June was a sensible time to launch, and once they agreed on that, they made an extra effort to start on the date of Barbarossa
If I recall correctly the invasion of the Soviet Union was delayed by the invasion of Yugoslavia which the Germans hadn’t planned on doing.
Yep
Prit Buttar is the best! ON a lighter note, does anyone else see the resemblance between Prit Buttar and Laurence Olivier's character Szell from the film "Marathon Man"? My teeth hurt just thinking about it. ; )
Have to read Pritt's books along with David Sahels'.
Surprised there seemed to be a lack in this discussion on knowing about Soviet mine-roller T34s.
No flails, yes, but Bagration was one place where the Soviets made extensive use of mine-roller tanks, mounted to front of T34s.
The Ukrainian Army in the current conflict has brought back their use.
Its really quite simple folks, whenever you see a Prit Buttar video pop up you watch it
And to think the US took on Gehlen as an intelligence expert for his knowledge of USSR!
On another note, one of the most fascinating questions is about Prit's research. Maybe just have him come do a show on that alone? Or a panel with others? "Historiography week"?
Thank you.
excellent show, fantastic presenter - well worth watching/listening
Can’t wait for his book.
Another excellent addition to the ongoing Bagration series, Woody and Dr. Buttar. I think an absurd aspect of the Bagration consists of rather dysfunctional German chain of command. What a disconnect between Berlin and Belarus! Yes, I also think that the Germans could have put another dent on the Soviet advances had the AG Center been better led and were given tactical flexibility. By contrast, the Red Army forces assigned for the Bagration were let by among the best front commanders the Soviets had to offer---i.e., Rokossovsky (1st Belarussian Front), Chernyakhovsky (3rd Belarussian Front), etc. This is a completely crappy predicament for the Germans.
From a cynical point of view, one can argue that German soldiers actually faced two enemies: (a) the Red Army of course; (b) the German higher-ups (i.e., Hitler--OKH--HG Mitte). How would it feels like to realize that your higher-ups are just as detrimental to your survival as the Red Army troops?
Prit Buttar is a superb historian.
Damn too late. Was listening to Jackson Crawford talk of The Saga of Heidrek and Hervör. Missed Seth earlier cause I was listening to Adrian Goldsworthy.
Oh well, looking forwards to Prit.
Thanks!
56 is LVI
A bit about IL2, keep in mind there are various videos and guides how you should shoot that thing down for sims without depleting your ammo or to shoot it down at all.
For cas it carries kinda low bomb weight and cockpit visibility is huge step up from submarine. The magic that made il2 shine was its low cost and ridiculous durability.
You have to put yourself in the shoes of germans seeing that thing coming, bombing you and leaving while you are hitting it and doing everything correctly, it just keeps chugging along disrespectfully.
Once you however know what you are dealing with, their usefulness vanishes.
Brilliant! It looks like Overlord greatly facilitated Bagration, the threat of a 2nd front causing the Nazis to shift assets West, where they were destroyed on the ground in Normandy and in the air the Reich. This is probably more important than Lend Lease, as the Panzers and Luftwaffe were the assets which enabled the Wehrmacht to hold off Soviets numerical superiority.
According to John Gunther in “Inside Russia Today” stainless steel dental work was common in the post war USSR.
Yep, I've been pleased to look at the two operations in parallel
@@WW2TV You’re my hero Woody👍 Your guests actually know they re talking about! I’m learning that it is crucial to think of the way events happened in time as well a space e.g. the invasion of Sicily affected the Eastern Front.
The smallest amount of Wermacht men and materiel on the Ostfront was 75%, following DDay. It didn't affect things in the East all that much. Is it our egos that make.us want to think it did?
Prit was outstanding as always. He is the best scholar on the Eastern Front in WW2!
I saw all this on Combat! with Vic Morrow and Rick Jason. Their squad destroyed the entire German Army
The Berezina bridge; Built by Dutch Engineers in 1812, following another corporal.
Hitler commands as dictator but Stalin... absurdly funny yet dark things happening there feel like he is more pirate captain than head of state.
I'm glad that he's cutting down the myth of the Soviet deception. I suspect that is really exaggerated. Especially considering what we know of how bad German intelligence was.
@MilitaryAviationHistory did a great video on Soviet air support
It’s staggering to realise that in less than 12 months time the German army will effectively cease to exist.
I know historians are contemptuous of alt history discussions, but I wonder what could have been done post Kursk to delay or even force a stalemate on the East.
The German 9th army at around 335,000 men and 600 tanks was as formidable as the 6th army.
Read David glantz battle of Belarusian it covers part of this
Great show.
Suberb knowledge
There is so so much outright, flagrant, stinking like grandma's socks 'documentabots' out there, when quality comes along it gets attacked.
I was trying to say thanks here😅
The Germans now suffering was the Red Army suffered in 41/42. Inflexible orders from the top, leading to massive encirclement and defeat.
first class ... again
Steel Division 2 has readied me for this 🤣
My lord. Every single comment is about Prit haha. Seriously has me wondering if bots?
Trust Rokossovsky over Zhukov
Ok but why exactly?
Prit doing a book about the battle of Berlin would be great. Soviets took 80,000 dead and 300,000 total casualties taking that city and area around it. Would be great to hear of individual battles of this unit fighting that unit for a couple houses like Stalingrad. I remember hearing the Hitler Youth troops and others fought caused alot of casualties fighting for the airport there.
Yep, that's what he is working on now
@@WW2TV Awesome. I'll be on the lookout for it.