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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 21 ก.ค. 2024
- Sega recently unveiled a trailer for Sonic Origins Plus, an updated version of last year’s remasters of the classic Sonic games. Alongside adding Amy as a playable character and access to 12 Game Gear games, fans are hoping that Sonic Team takes this opportunity to fix the, quote, “broken mess” of the original, underwhelming, release.
With mediocre review scores, a scathing public rant from one of the lead developers on launch day and glitch compilations flooding the internet, it’s not hard to see why fans felt that way. All that Sega had to do was take the supposedly “perfect” Whitehead mobile ports, put them on a console and then give Sonic 3 & Knuckles the same treatment.
But hold on. What if I were to tell you that’s exactly what they did? See, when I was watching one of the glitch compilations, I noticed that some of the things they were showcasing existed in the mobile ports. I should know, I highlighted these issues in a video I made on those mobile ports in April 2020 - two years before Sonic Origins released!
What if I also told you that Sonic 3 & Knuckles in particular makes some improvements and adds some flourishes which I haven’t seen anyone highlight or praise? That I think that this particular part of the package is woefully underappreciated in favour of exaggerating and meme-ifying a few high profile bugs?
Here’s the deal. I went back and I played the original Mega Drive cartridges, the Whitehead ports and Origins back-to-back. I put them side-by-side and made direct comparisons. I put in the legwork that I’ve not seen anyone else do, and folks, Origins did not get a fair shake.
00:00 - 02:05: Introduction
02:05 - 03:14: Ground Rules
03:14 - 07:59: What Went Wrong - Pre-Release
07:59 - 12:49: Bugs and Glitches
12:49 - 17:56: Music
17:59 - 21:39: Physics
21:39 - 28:12: Other Complaints
28:12 - 28:36: What They Got Right
28:36 - 30:04: Improved Cutscenes and New Sprites
30:04 - 33:40: Restored Content and Quality of Life Upgrades
33:40 - 34:34: Hidden Options, Toggles and Features
34:34 - 35:42: Defending the User Interface
35:42 - 37:36: Coins and Bonus Content
37:36 - 38:15: New Story Animations
38:15 - 41:06: What I Want From Origins Plus
41:06 - 42:28: Outro
#sonic #sega #gaming - เกม
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I like how you prove that many bugs with Origins aren't actually Origins problems, rather problems with the remaster. And I thank you for taking the extra effort to prove it.
However, this brings up another question: did they fix any of the remasters problems? From these comparisions, no.
Oh they absolutely took it as it was, fixed nothing and just sold it again.
holy cow i got pinned
Most excellent video Sam, it's quite shocking no one, especially gaming journos bothered to check if the glitches were also in the mobile ports.
But Origins plus seems a bit weird, going for the Game Gear ports of the 8 bit games, rather than the more TV friendly Master System version, and STILL NO CHAOTIX!!!
Journalists ignoring crunch deadlines and looking beyond a surface level appraisal? Unheard of! ;) But yeah, the Game Gear games, I'll take them, but they seem kind of throwaway, and it's really weird that Sonics 3D, Spinball and Knuckles' Chaotix aren't included given 3D and Spinball have islands on the world map and Chaotix has its music in the jukebox.
@@WebstersTH-cam spinball is there vis the 8-bit version. Knuckles chaotix makes sense to not be there cus ST don't care for it & don't consider canon since they didn't have a hand in it. this is sonics' origins so KC doesn't fit that idea to them. idk bout 3D blast tho which that 1 sucks in particular
i feel that, im kinda confused why they wanna bury chaotix so badly
I can answer that. Sega didn't want to take the time to port the Master System games because the GG games were already available from other compilations to include. Lazy, absolutely lazy. 😆
@@nightlydata2181 It's not even the Master System version.
Thank you for actually comparing and contrasting the mobile port too. I think the smaller screen size made a lot of fans miss many of the glitches and oddities that also made it into Origins. I also think that there's a lot of fans who have never played the phone version but have only heard good things about it
100% I think people heard that the mobile version was perfect and they just adopted that as their own opinion without ever playing the game.
@@WebstersTH-camI think when they hear that these are the definitive versions of the games currently on the market, it does make it sound like the ideal versions. people should remember that regardless of whether it's the best version, it still might have flaws.
Origins isn't innocent in this case, though; 40 dollars for budget Amy Rose is robbery.
Bro only 200+ likes, really? So underrated.
32:48 on Genesis/Mega drive you can lift Sonic with Tails using the second controller.
pay to get the ability to fly with tails lol
My only guess regarding returning to Metal in 4 is that perhaps Robotnik felt his peak was the first after the Mecha Sonics failed. That or the Mechas were too destroyed to reuse, but Metal was stable enough to modify him with the data he collected between then.
As someone who honestly views this as the best official collection, I appreciate the defense of it since it honestly did not get a fair shake. As for Metal Sonic, first I don't think the map is to be taken literally nor do I think Sonic was there for his plane. In both the original version and the english translation of the manual for CD and whats implied in the game itself, Sonic was visiting Never Lake specifically to see the Little Planet and just lucked into discovering Ivo's latest scheme. Secondly all the game gear games and spin offs like Sonic the Fighters are still canon so Eggman did not forget about or give up on Metal till near the end of his second conquest of the Little Planet in Sonic Mania. (So Metal Sonic had been upgraded but failed multiple times by that point) Its likely that the Mecha Sonic seen in the Genesis version of 2 was a slap dash effort considering unlike it's previous version it was not powered by a chaos emerald and its implied to be remote controlled in the fight proper.
understood the assignment
I promise I respect your opinion but all I ask is that you play Sonic Jam on Saturn at some point in your life. Emulate it if you can as I appreciate the game is expensive.
@@gamesbloke i have. but at that point if im emulating collections i should just emulate the genesis versions man since thats less of a hassle
"Classic mode" should be an optional download of those Steam emulations. Sonic 3 beta music could easily be put in if they don't wanna be haunted by mj
I am a hardcore sonic fan, been playing since sonic 3d blast and have played these games for years and I had zero issues with origins and muscle memory.
The momentum differences in sonic 1 is most likely a result of the removal of the ground and air speed cap
That would explain a lot.
Sonic 2 in the original also had an air cap but no speed cap, but in the Christian Whitehead the air cap in Sonic 2 is disabled by default
pirates do what sega don't
so true
I just hope we one day get a Sonic 3 rerelease with the Jackson music! They said the Nintendo 64 GoldenEye game would never get a modern rerelease... and what was announced last year? I'd be happy with at least an Arcade1up Sonic 3 if that was the only way it could be rereleased with the Jackson music!
Great video! A fair and honest critique of origins, acknowledging its flaws while also acknowledging the things it did well! I appreciate the comparison between the different versions as well. it's mainly interesting the see the difference between the original game vs origins since the mega drive was before my time. I do hope the bugs and glitches are ironed out in origins plus.
Also, a note on the sound quality for Sonic 3 & Knuckles. They still remain muffled, mostly likely due to being recording from an actual Mega Drive from what I've seen. It's another thing I hope is addressed in origins plus
I'm not even a sonic fan and haven't played origins but watched the whlole thing because I LOVE such thorough and comprehensive reviews, with so much efforts and dedication put into them. I wish you the best mate, you really deserve so much more views and recognition!
Damn people will complain about the littlest things
If it comes to sonic yes. especially for this dogshit collection
welcome to the internet. where no one can agree lol
As a random note, The Air and Ground Speed caps are turned off by default in Sonic 1 Mobile and Origins and The Air Speed Cap is turned off by default in Sonic 2 Mobile and Origins
i noticed that. it was crazy
what really makes me mad is a combo of a few different things. sega's long history of rushing games out for the holidays etc. that they removed the ability to buy the titles seperately on the digital stores. and the absolute cheek of there being a cash grab pre-order bonus
I get that. The business decisions surrounding the release were pretty bad. Thankfully, I'm able to separate that from the product itself, but I appreciate that not everyone can do that.
@@WebstersTH-cam mm. i think i understand where youre coming from, enjoying something for what it is despite the negativity surrounding it. somehow sega just keeps coming back from the dead, so i suppose theres little hope of them changing their ways from customer blowback.
i swear, sega is one of the weirdest game companies out there, you never know what theyre going to do next with sonic.
To quote someone else on another Sonic video, the internet overemphasizes the worst part of the games and people let this overinfluence their own opinion.
hella true
Honestly, my problem with Origins is the $40 price tag and the DLC that should've been in the base game.
- Sonic 1, 2, and CD are free in my phone ($6 if I want no ads) and I can use the decompilation tools provided by fans to get them on PC and have the best versions of those games.
- Sonic 3 A.I.R. exists. It has the most features and most options. The Origins version of 3&K has none of that.
- I do not see the point in having the music for 3D Blast, Spinball, and Chaotix when you can just look up the soundtracks on TH-cam. At least with 1/2/CD/3&K, at least those games are in Origins.
- Why do I have to pay $10 for some borders, camera controls on the menu islands, and animations on said islands (and those animations are reused from Generations/Forces).
- Knuckles in CD should've been there from the beginning. If the other three games can have Knuckles' in it, so can CD.
- I kinda understand how Amy was DLC, but the trailer (for Origins, not Origins Plus) literally said "New Playable Characters". Why not have Amy be that playable character, and give the Origins version of these games have something special about them?
For the argument of "well these are remasters, so the price should be higher", three of these remasters are 10+ years old that, again, I can get on my phone for free ($6 if I want to remove ads), and another one of these remasters somehow can't get the rights to its original music.
Also, after taking a more extensive look, the price of Origins (specifically Origins + Plus) is complete bullshit. If you bought everything when it launched (Origins, Fun/Classic Music DLC, and Plus), you spent $55. If you buy the game right now (Origins + Plus), you're only paying $40, as Origins got a $10 price cut, and the Fun/Classic Music DLC were delisted and are now part of the Plus expansion. What a way to rip-off your most loyal fans.
consol players gotta settle since you cant get any of the 4 fan compliations on console
@@nakulemonadekitsune204 I'm not saying that everyone in the world can get these fan compilations, but I _am_ saying is that it's a publicaly avaliable version that that a lot of people already had access to before Origins released. Sega should've at least been on par with these fan complitations (if one person can do it, an entire team of paid staff can do so as well), but they somehow dropped the ball on it.
@@zemchia listen. i do understand i know sega as much as the next guy growing up with their games, but i also like to take accesability into account.. these arent as acessable especially with the delistings with out some form of piracy obviously, emulation, or owning the original disk and or console, especially with sonic gems and mega collection having glitches of their own and audio bugs, song jam having loads of audio errors, tho the easy modes a plus, the best one you could find is ultimate genesis collection but that lacks sonic 3 and knuckles. all im saying is maybe to hard core fans this is shit but to a casual audience who dossent have the time to get the decompilations or well.
dossent care for mod support. origins is a fine collection, you may not like it but.. these also arent great alternatives either cause theres always gonna be things wrong regardless so it feels wrong to put mega collection and gems on a pedastal or the white head remakes which most the bugs for sonic origins came from. you get me?
@@nakulemonadekitsune204 Although it may have been hard to decipher in my OG post, I do not think this a bad collection, I just believe Sega could've done better.
@@zemchia i agree they could have. but.. theres still no easy alternatives sorry if i got alittle confused
at 12:30 ish where you said that the internet is an echo chamber and people parrot their favourite creators instead of playing the games themselves.
THANK YOU!
omg ain't it the truth?
I'm glad someone had the balls to say it haha
My respect for you has skyrocketed this day good sir, and you have earned yourself a new sub :D
Great video, i love how you compared them. But when you make the video where you see if fans did a better job, can you also look at sonic cd and knuckles, not only does it add knuckles, it adds elemental shields, insta shield, and so much more. It definitely feels like a sonic cd air and I think it should be put in the spotlight, since most people dont know it exists.
I'm impressed by how in depth this was! Great work!
holy cow i make way too many comments on this video
I believe that Eggman was making the Death Egg during (or even before) Sonic 1, and once he saw Sonic, he knew he needed his own machine to combat him. That's why Metal was created. After that didn't work, he didn't have much time to create Mecha, which is why he looks much less finished. After his defeat in Sonic 2, he had much more time to complete Mecha MKII, which is why he's more powerful.
My 2 little rant, is 1. Game Gear games with no trophy support & why didn’t Sega put the master system games in the collection?
2.I got a platinum trophy with took me 2 days to finish on PS5, it felt to easy for me personally!
why would we need trophys for the game gear games? your telling me your gonna play them to completion for a digital trophy that.. in the grand scheme means nothing? no offense btw
People who insist that origins "ruined" the music from the og games should play Sonic 1 on the Dreamcast Sega Smash Pack or of those Atgames clone console to hear what it really means to ruin classic sonic music
Their ears would bleed XD
After reading this I looked up a smash pack playthrough of sonic 1 and you are so incredibly right, the Sega jingle sounds like a creepypasta in that version!
Origins ruined the music and AtGames ruined much more. 2 garbages. a worse job doesn't cancel out a bad job.
Or the Midi versions in OG PC Sonic 3
Funny you should say that because some mad lady at Gamebanana created an Atgames music mod for Origins.
Why? Who knows.
As a "normie" who wouldn't have played the mobile port (because mobile sucks without buttons) I don't think I'd be too mad at the Origins collection until I realized that it 1:1 of the original carts that I played as a kid, which would be the only reason I'd be getting them. But then that removes the "normie" status that I care about port changes at all. I like the upgrades like smoother frame rates and real 3D over fake 3D but screw it, emulation means not having to pay a premium for a "well meaning" but sub par experience, especially if I'm just rebuying something I already own.
I know this is months ago, but even pre-plus and pre-patch, the Marble Garden bug never occurred for me after my first playthrough, I still do not know why... Also, to respond to Guru Larry below... The SMS versions are actually the ports, the GG versions were developed first, then SEGA asked to have it ported to the Master System. The SMS version of Sonic 1, for instance, lines up nearly 1-1 with a GG Prototype, not to mention broken boss cycles and bugs introduced in the SMS Versions... The bigger screen does not make up for those versions' flaws.
Honestly, the only thing I'm really annoyed about in origins is that you can't bind the controls to the arrow keys or the enter key, which they NEVER patched out, which is so dumb
also denuvo
I there was any sonic game/media I can say was dealt the worst hand, it's origins.
I really like origins a lot, I think it's a mighty fine collection of these classic games, but all it's imperfections made it awful for a lot of people, Like Frontiers (and other sonic game with a lot of problems that I still think is great) I wish this compilation had more time and work put into it.
30:43 you can't fall off the platform. the wind throws you up.
correct
Changing the music was expected, the problem is though, the new tracks kinda suck.
There is the better version of those Classic Sonic games to experience which is Sonic 1 Forever, Sonic CD Restored, Sonic 2 Absolute, Sonic 3 Complete, and Sonic 3 Angel Island Revisited. (or Sonic 3 A.I.R. for short which does have widescreen and mod support)
its not on console and not everyone can afford a computer let alone a good computer to run said games so some of us like a good console collection
@@nakulemonadekitsune204"Bu-but muh console! 1!!1!1".
Those mods are still far, far superior than origins.
@@Leonard_Wolf_2056 dose not excuse the point
@@nakulemonadekitsune204 While it's true that not everyone has a computer, you don't need a high-end computer for these games.
Sonic 3 AIR ran perfectly fine on my 2007 laptop (no GPU, a Pentium CPU).
@@zemchiaI already have played Sonic 3 A.I.R. and I still bought Sonic Origins because I wanted to play it on my Xbox. (also it was on sale)
I just happy that game exist but need a big patch for gameplay mode selection from this video
I am in a minority of one it seems but I wish they just ported Sonic Jam on Saturn. If you update the 'Saturn 3d World' to meet the modern age standards you would have a pretty comprehensive 'Origins' collection. The museum content on 'Jam' is great to go through. The presentation on game selection is high. The games on the Saturn 'Jam' collection are NOT emulated on Saturn.
Or if you want quantity over quality then just port Sonic 'Gems' collection. Just a straight up collection of quick ports.
That would be a quick way of making cash. Not amazing but it ticks a box on a finance sheet.
Origins was marketed extremely poorly and completely missed the point. The presentation is equal parts pleasing and frustrating. Music is a HUGE deal for me as its part of the Sonic experience. If licensing kills the original experience then get someone in who can give the game OST an edge.
Glitches happen but glaring game breaking issues should not.
Crap is crap. Explaining crap is interesting and informative. But the whole situation from coding, marketing to licensing was done in a rushed, incoherent way. The finished product is crap. I put that down to limited budgets and misguided planning. Even down to the Game Gear games being a code rather than on the physical media.
I love Sega - I loved their ethos and products for decades. But they have always had an issue with communicating/marketing.
Much respect for the vid. All the best.
You should do more stc videos
They're on the way :)
I don't get why you have a problem with CD in the chronology.
I think as far as Sonic 3 music goes, I'd take the original Yamaha soundchip generated beta tracks over the new arrangements for Origins.
As far as bosses, I'm entirely with you. They're not great.
I'm with you entirely on the coin system. Lives are a product of their time entirely.
You also pointed out a few things that made me go "oh yeah, I forgot that" including the camera following Sonic on the Aquatic Ruin boss and Tails' Sonic 3 opening.
As for your hope for Amy's super form, I guarantee someone will make some mods haha.
The save feature removal also takes away the ability to start a new run with the emeralds already collected. Even the SEGA Ages release of Sonic 2 has a Super mode you can earn through beating the game with the emeralds collected both for Sonic and Knuckles despite just being emulation.
Your view that it's "fine" is kinda the conclusion I came to as well. I think we both have different things we prioritise our praise and criticism towards and came to the same sort of view from different angles.
I'll be interested to see your views on Forever, Absolute and AIR when you get to them. I definitely recommend checking out mods for those games and Origins respectively, whether for analysis or just for fun. It's cool seeing what can be done, including a playable Metal Sonic in Sonic 2 that's not just a mere sprite swap.
I think in an age when there are so many options around, it's hard to get a sense of awe towards an official product when the fan releases have left a strong impression.
I also theorise that this fallacious echo chamber TH-cam view people have about the mobile ports being so infallible comes from experiencing the decompilation rather than the actual mobile release, in the instances where people aren't just parroting views that is. Even before Forever and Absolute, the decompilations made some slight improvements, one of which being a nearest neighbour filter which stopped the game looking softer and blurrier than it looks from original hardware.
Physicswise, I hope they can get the drop dash in Sonic 1 and 2 to handle similarly to 3K and Mania in an update. The air speed cap makes it feel nerfed.
I am very much looking forward to your Sonic 2 comparison video. No doubt you'll likewise raise a lot of points that will make me go, "Oh yeah!"
Funnily enough, in the game’s level select, turning on Sonic 3’s shields actually makes the drop dash work like 3&K
12:30 41:40 I hate the internet. It's only about people being profited off of people being emotionally harmed and unhealthy and getting gratification from that. It's hard to get real answers these days because people love to make sick and cruel jokes on each other and maintain an unhealthy worldview to keep the truth out. It's just sickening and saddening to me and looks like there may be no sign of stopping. 😕
Only reason why Im buying it now because its on sale right now for 20 dollars which is a good deal no way in hell was I paying 40 for this
As cool as ports are there's one reason I stick to playing the originals... authenticity and no nasty surprises. With the exception of Sonic CD ofc... I never liked how it played on the Mega CD.
The resin why I didn't even bother buying sonic origins is because I already have a Sega Genesis compilation and I have the xbla version of Sonic CD so why bother getting origins at least the glitches aren't that bad in the Sega Genesis collection on Xbox one.
finally someone with an understandable none memey opinion
25:41 why do you sound like youre trying not to laugh
Every time SEGA keep repeating history (more likely rushing new game during development) they’re doom to fail also one of these day SEGA will get caught with their own greed (this is only for the sonic game’s franchise, doesn’t apply on other SEGA games)
I fail to see how a 78 is a medicore score lol. Thats the gaming world we live in i guess. Any other form of media 78 would be considered solid to good. Espcially albums. We really need to recalibrate gaming score stigmas IGN and all those websites have made it that anything less than an 8 equals bad. And like no 8 is good 7 is solid 5 is average. This has nothing to do with this review I think Origins is a good compliation with some problems. But theyre minor imo and its still a great time playing
Yes it is
Bye
I hate that Sega did the classic Sonic games this dirty! These amazing titles should've had the treatment they got more then 25 years ago like Sonic Jam did. This is why I won't be buying this compilation and would rather stick with my trusty Sega Saturn.
At the risk of sounding rude, did you watch the video? Because we came to very different conclusions.
@@WebstersTH-cam Yes, I did and I really enjoyed the video! I actually completely forgot I even posted this comment since I wrote it before watching the video. As after watching it, I came away with the conclusion that while it may not be a perfect compilation, it's still a new exciting way of playing these classics that is a accessible to new audiences.
Defending origins simply does not work due to the consumer paying forty dollars to play s3&k.
Sonic 1,2 & CD are basically emulated from the mobile port.
FOURTY DOLLARS FOR A 2D GAME THAT WAS MADE WHEN MOSES WAS A KID.
Not only are the proto tracks butchered, not only are there no MJ tracks... But the entirety of the soundtrack is compressed.
Btw, origins released at the start of the steam summer sale. I can make you a list of games which you can buy for 40 dollars which are far superior and much more fun.
P. S. Sonic 3 air and p1r@cy are superior in every way it counts.
I think it's incredibly insulting that Sonic Mega Collection from 2006 is still a better compilation than this rubbish. 😆
You know that Sonic Mega Collection had bugs too, right?
@@Sonic_the_hedgedog Any bugs it has isn't as bad as what was released here that's for sure. Definitely the SMC has more pros than cons.
There's better ways to play the games and too overpriced so it's worthless for me.
Now that the Steam release of Sonic 3 & Knuckles is no longer available to buy, Origins is pretty much the only option for current platforms. That lack of choice is not a good thing, but this release of S3&K does feature numerous quality of life improvements.
Next to the fanmade remasters like AIR , Restore, and Absolute, Origins version of these games are the best versions to play these games honestly.
Garbage collection 🗑️
Get the old ones:
Mega collection
Gems collection
The retro ones including sonic 3 air
can i have what your smoking?
also most those need older consoles or pc man, most people have modern consoles and most sonic fans are kids, a good pc is gonna be rare and they are most likely buying it on a ps4 or xbox not a gamecube,
Moron@@nakulemonadekitsune204
🤡@@nakulemonadekitsune204