I don't get why you can't access voice commands as f2p. Like yeah, bots can spam scam links in chat, or just annoying audio in vc... but voice commands? Pre-recorded lines (with a cooldown) meant to let you easily communicate with your team? The fuck are they gonna do with them? Spam E?
@@KudoRedfox For Me is when a game has 0 players playing the game for the last 30+ days Granded if 1 player decides to play that game now that game is alive again then once it hits 0 players playing the game for the last 30+ days then the game becames dead again With this definition no game can truelly have a Enternal Dead but I think thats a good thing
@@KudoRedfox True Now We wait for someone to make a Online Service replacer so We can play Online again after the Oficial Servers shutdown Kinda like Insignia for Xbox, Wiimmfi for DS and Wii, Pretendo Network for 3DS and Wii U, ClassiCube for Minecraft Classic, Open Spades for Ace Of Spades etc
Its good yes, but its not a good idea to spread this figure around and say TF2 is perfectly fine.. its not. Being critical and negative despite all it being a downer vibe is needed to foster change from valve
@@Dan-fn1uw We need to be negetive to valve, Being positive did what? Let tf2 be in a bot crisis for 5+ years? Leave l4d2 unplayable online for 4+ months? Replace csgo with cs2 wich has a cheater problem? Being toxic positive is only killing us faster. We need to tell valve that they have fucked up hard. They keep lying to us and make excuses.
@@bromomento5913 it gives a single (I think) minicrit for a short duration after the target is killed, regardless of if it was killed by the spy or not
People dont realise majority of the players were bots been for years now. The only thing thats changed is the fact its more public knowledge,so everyone is freaking out over practicly nothig changing.
Making TF2 Pay to play again doesnt make bots to disappear(cuz according to hosters, there are no use of free account bots, so they are all premium), and AGAIN will only hurt F2P and online will drops real fast
The meme with the pink radio and spy saying he found it via pornography is referring to a famous case of "lost media" (not really because the media itself wasn't lost but it's source was) about a segment from a song that the community called "everyone knows that" which people couldn't find the origin/authors of. It was recently revealed that the song came from a butt film.
0:30 I started playing in 2012 thanks to the video from the guy who played since release. The whole video was rambling about how "TF2 is dead, everyone plays Dota 2 and Minecraft now" TF2 was dying already when they added very first unlocks (ubersaw, kritzkrieg, blutsauger)
@@magnusm4 Then he used his fight money to buy TWO of every bot hoster on Earth, And then he hurdled them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one!
Zesty put it best: it is actually impressive that the game has lasted this long with as many actual players as it has. But the bot situation genuinely does need addressing, sooner rather than later. The game isn't literally going to collapse, but calling it "fine" is a massive stretch.
The difference between Zesty and others covering the bot numbers in the playerbase years back, is he was methodical in is approach used, statistical evidence to back it up and deconstructed and disproved most other possible explanations for anomalies or quirks in the active player statistics. Oh that and flashy editing of course.
Yeah, TF2 isn’t dead, and it’s not going anywhere for a while. The problem is that big figures in this community are just sitting around pretending that everything is okay. TF2 is still alive but it’s in a terrible state right now and considering that Valve still monetizes the game and they do the bare minimum when it comes to maintaining this game is absolutely unacceptable. We as a community should complain more often and make this issue more widely known rather than “well I’m still playing the game! Everything is alright!” How about we pull a Helldivers 2 and all come together and get valves attention again, but more strictly and straight forward. “Fix your damn game or else I won’t be your customer anymore.”
25k people doesn't make much sense now considering that in the 64-bit update made almost all the bots couldn't even open the game, and the number of players even increased having around 65k on average during that week, and now more and more cheat services and bots are being banned or disabled and the playerbase still increasing that argument its getting obsolete too quick, I think about 25% of the player base were actually bots before the update, but now I almost never encounter a single bot in a match, although Jesus was right in most part, but it could be better if he released that video a few months ago because he released the video in a time that the community is starting to become more active just a few days after, with the news about community updates, events, 64 bit update and cheater bans, so yeah is a good video released in a bad moment, sorry if my english is not the best
Very well, I can compile the demands. We want: - Better anti-bot and anti-cheat measures (better third-party app hook-up detection, prevent the player clients from running game in the text mode, add Valve-side capcha for joining Official Servers) - Rebalance classes (rollback Spy to pre-Jungle Inferno state, give Sniper that Scope Glare effect and Quickscope Delay, as well as increase Reload on Sniper Rifles to 1.5 seconds, remove Projectile Aim assist from Huntsman, rework "bad weapons", rework MvM upgrades for classes and their weapons) - Rework Casual and Competetive modes, meanwhile disable them while they are being reworked, re-enabling Quick Play back for that time. As for what we want - Casual neeeds to let go of Ranks. Permanently. They serve no purpose at this point of time. And it needs the function that doesn't separate your party members to be finally enabled. Competetive mode - add 9v9 and 2v2 modes, add prizes like discontinued old hats and vouchers that once collected enough, would allow us to get a Cosmetic Case Key. - "Lost and Found" system that would allow players to regain achievement items whether they were deleted or accidentally sent away due to the glitches, all according to their achievements and such. Example - haunted scrap metal. If you have a "Lost&Found" ticket, using it would make Steam scan your achievements and find the one related to Mann Manor and Merasmus/HHH, look for Horseman's Headtaker and Haunted Scrap Metal, and if you don't have the items, but got the required achievements - then you get your Scrap Metal 100%. And same with all the other achievement items from within the game. - Remove F2P voice block. At least on the Character Voice Commands. Separating Voicalised Commands from Player Voice Chat should be obvious and should've been done from the start.
@seriamon When it comes to the list this is what I would add to it: 1. Get rid of the bots for ever! 2. Allow free to play to talk in chat 3. allow community to make updates 4.Give us a havy update And thats all.
A list of demands is a very good idea, I've actually been thinking along similar lines for years now, so it's great someone else also thinks that way. And if really necessary, we can always say we won't spend any more money on the game if it's not implemented. As long as we're serious it should work. The TF2 community needs to channel a bit of the energy of the DnD memes subreddit from back in the day.
@@karal_the_crazy Yep. But DnD memes from back in the day is better. Well actually the entire united TTRPG fandom against WOTC. They tried to change the license, but for once the multi-million dollar company (Hasbro's) lost. It Was Epic. The license didn't change and Paizo (Those who made Pathfinder) made the ORC license. My "Free and libre opensource software" friend (And DM) called it a "good license". That shows it's exceptional. That fight also helped bolster the spirit of resistance and revolution in the DnD subreddit specifically. It united the squabeling subreddit against one thing. They called out WOTC's BS again when they called union busters to raid the house of a youtuber who got an unreleased packet by accident. Then they tried to resist the changes on Reddit. Every post contained a Goblin. And most (~90%) was art of Goblins which abided closly to the 34th rule (If you get what I mean). Needless to say, almost all active accounts got banned. Yet they still continued regularly by sending everything to one guy who wasn't banned. I got busy with stuff after that, so that's where the story ends for me. Snitty's, the end, and a slow recovery. But the youtuber who regularly covered it so I didn't have to stopped a short way's after, so I can't really get much updates either without going on reddit meself. And I hope you see why I'm reluctant. But THAT is the power I fear we may channel. That is the power we may be FORCED to channel. It is a risky and dangerous power. Yet if used correctly, it could do ANYTHING.
0:40 this is so good lmao, most people don't realize how hard painting like this is Also I'm sad that Zesty's video is getting the attention it did not need 😔It's just fearmongering
@@zekenotech researching for over a year to prove that that vast majority of "players" arent actually players? maybe go watch the video instead of blindly raging?
I think for majority of these who says it's dead it is, because their belief that TF2 is the titan of the games got ruined and for instance Overwatch 2, game that probably these peoples were laughing at for having less players, turns out to have more active players than TF2 . For them this is indeed a total defeat and fact that their game ain't in top 10 or top 15, but around top 50 makes them sink more in their belief. But I must agree that the game would be in better state if it wasn't so hostile to newcomers. Fact that new players can't use chat and don't know that majority of players sits on community, their casual experience draws them out the game
I still think the same about the 25 k players now then i did like 3 years ago " WOW 25k players ? No wonder i can find almost all day long good rounds on uncle danes severs and even some good casul matches at prime times"
4:04 -Give a functioning method that gets rid of bots (either make it themselves or hire a group of community members who can) -fix the restrictions on f2p accounts -all this within a reasonable timeframe
Ever since the video about how many bots are on TF2 was made, there has been a rising stigma that people believe the game is dying/dead. Its not. I refuse to believe that there are that many bots at any given time. TF2 content proves that. Many TF2 based content has shown that there is still a MASSIVE fan base out there. and even if 80% of the total unique views are watching purely for nostalgia, a massive 20% still plays TF2. That 20% often roughly ranges to the amount of players in-game, or at the very least 90% of the player base. How? each cheater bot in every game have similar names. Most of the cheater bot names are widely known and are often insta-kicked for having those said names. And in the case of bots having the same names, I have not seen more than 2-3 bots with the same name. TF2 is not dead and has been proven time and time again. We're just going through another phase of "popular TF2-uber says something so it must be true" hysteria.
We all just happen to be rather cynical since there isn't much of an explanation for their constantly being 70k people at all times, that's just not realistic. If you look at other games with similar numbers they have consistent rises and drops, not the weird ass mountain look of tf2s numbers. It's not hysteria, it's just some basic reasoning on a pretty depressing subject. Sure tf2 ain't dead but calling it fine is not true either.
@@Max_Aimz9392 The only redundancy, well two, about that argument are that; 1. Bots do not need to log out; And 2. The chart for tf2 reads a pretty stable 20k-50k player count WORLDWIDE. The only reason why the game doesn't "fLucTuAtE" as much as other more popular games (let's use CS2 as an example) is that the player base mainly consists of people in the more western regions of the world (US and EU) while TF2 doesn't have a >player base anywhere. People go in and out of the game literally 24 hours around the clock around the world
People obsessing over player count like it will change or affect gameplay, the game has stable player base since 2010 and it's still stable no other game is doing that. TF2 will remain the same and alive for years as Valve makes millions from it with or without youtuber's opinions.
About the save tf2...it could work i think where things went wrong is that everyone cheered and stopped after 1 comment from valve, this time it goes on till we actually see the update
I thought of a solution for TF2. Don't play on Valve official servers. Configure servers that focus on the same gameplay. Design maps that make playing Sniper impossible, such as a specific class blocking barrier in front of spawn. Have custom levels that make bot navigation a problem, such as fake paths that are actually windows or invisible doors that don't open.
The thing is that the number of players has been CONSISTENT for literal YEARS. The main issue the most bots posed was an overestimation of how played the game was (which is why people are overreacting, an extreme version of post-empire-syndrome) and some micro-economy stuff. It's the small amount of cheater bots which are the main issue. There should be something done about ALL bots, but it's not the end of TF2 or whatever. TF2 isn't dead, it's just not thriving like people thought it was.
3:02 That's a really good concept, but TC2(Typical Colors 2) made it even better cus it takes place on the sapper and only reveal one person And i dont remember if it have something more
I do think if a bunch of passionate people who can afford to go over to Seattle could, if we can manage to get some sort of meeting with people who work on TF2 it could make a bigger impact that we think it could, it’s a lot harder to ignore a person in real life. I don’t mean go storm the Valve HQ or anything just have a talk with some higher ups, maybe even Gabe himself, about the problem.
You guys seem to ignore the most basic problem: only three work in this game anymore, and not even full time, everyone else has moved onto hardware and vr games, Valve has literally abandoned this game for years and nobody is in touch with the community anymore.
You can dislike zesty Jesus all you want, but he literally just displays cold hard facts sometimes and seeing so many of the Tf2 community cope and Seethe about him just bringing up the bot stuff was honestly disheartening
2:01 yes for engineer, if you can't aim you'll never be able to defend yourself with your primary, if you don't have gamesense you can't place your buildings in good spots, and if you don't have a good team neither of those first two even matter anyway.
I think we should do another save tf2 BUT we actually do stuff that would hit them AS A COMPANY if we all stop playing tf2 they will not ic but do a bug fix and call it a day, that’s why we should get other communities in on it. Suddenly, oh no nobody is playing portal and half life?? Nobody is on tf2 and csgo? It might be hard to get them in on it but if we do valve will NEVER KNOW WHAT HIT THEM
about the impure injector, there was actually a time when grabbing the enemy medic's medigun was competitively viable. dropped weapons retain their ammo and ubercharge right, so ever since gun mettle, if you go into a fight with uber and the enemy medic doesn't (and they drop it) then you can pick up their medigun to get almost a full second uber right after yours. you would get an insane 100% uber ad whereas if you didn't pick it up, you would only get 40% uber ad. this is still a feature nowadays, except they nerfed it by making the medigun loose charge faster than it previously did
bot hosts: we bombed this game with 80% bots, Why it wont die!!! f2p gibus with a sandvich on the hand: *voice commands not available for this account*
Instead of just updates I would prefer to see updates that last instead of another "more cosmetics and few maps". Something like, fixing the tutorial for tf2 or making community servers a lil more accessible or adding new options into the game. 64 bit update was really good because it add longevity to the game and is a good quality of life update which I would love to see more of.
Personally here is what demands I feel we would want(Most Likely to least likely) Remove paying for communication since it did nothing against bots Find a way to Crush Bots Do some balancing changes Heavy Update Smaller related to heavy update for a lunchbox slot instead of using secondary slot for food items
3:23 I use custom projectiles mod which basically flashes when a sniper fires his rifle and its quite visible from very far away, never been more sniper aware before and it legit helps.
2:24 My problem with that take is, that the poster forgets to take in account how many players most of the games need to play the game or to have fun with. The other thing is TF2 how split the playerbase is on casual/community/MVM, gamemodes & maps. In my opinion 20-25k for along time is decent for this type of game, but I think the community & the community servers are the backbone, that carries this number and if something would happen to one of the bigger community servers, the number will sadly tank a bit. Also new players have way to many negative things to deal with (no communication, skill barrier, unoptimized settings etc.), which results in a minuscule amount of new players. Sorry if this sounds like doomposting.
I think people are seeing the situation on a very black or white way, the game is dead or it's healthy, I personally think it's neither, yes the game is doing well 25k people is a high number, however the issue is not the amount of people actually playing, it's the bots, taking care of the bots won't make people suddenly stop playing, that's what's zesty's video is about, calling out valve to take care of the bots, the amount of players will remain the same, but it will make the atmosphere of the game and the economy more healthy.
0:06 For anyone wondering about the Zesty Jesus request, the closest thing I could find that supported bot owners listening to it was the fact that at 22:00UTC, the player count on tf2 went from 68,481 to 55,291 co-current players at a sharp decline. Assuming all of the players that left were bots, that'd be 13,190 bots that left the game. If the "80% of Tf2's players bot's" fact is true, then around 24% of players that left during that day were bots (Bad math, you may correct). Note that this is not actual evidence, since the player count rose back up to around its original player count at a sharp incline after 8 hours, which I highly doubt the bot owners waited that long before turning their bots back on.
Kinda feels poetic actually. In the comics, The Administrator, Redmond and Blutach and even Greymann had life extending machines. Tf2 is the Administrator and we're her life extending machines. And like the comics, we may never know how it ends.
No Bot hosters can certainly not afford 250 000$ plus worth of tf2 accounts You don‘t need one 5$ game you need 65k 5$ games The issue with making tf2 pay to play is that new people may be turned off by the paywall. But i‘d say that’s better than them leaving because of the cheaters
@@seriamonwould that even effect the bots already in the game? I mean if the system barely kicks cheater then there isn't much guarantee the rest of the bots are gonna be affected by it. Not be offensive but this sounds like people being dicks towards f2ps again but disguised as antibot measures.
Mfs be acting like 25k people is a small number like bro most games wish they could pull numbers like that. Edit: also savetf2 wasn't a waste of time, it was just poorly planned. We had a mere two days to make demands and come up with a plan, Imagine the things we could come up with if we had a week or two before we got ready for action.
Having only 20000 Players isn't bad That still puts TF2 in the top 50 (as of the time of Me commenting) most played games on Steam Being above Terraria at 19514 players and below Red Dead Redemption 2 at 20164
Maybe instead of making the game pay 2 play they can do whatever csgo was doing back in the day. Seperate the matchmaking between f2p and p2p players, so everyone can still enjoy the game but at the same time you can spent like 5 buckaroos to be further from the bots. If a p2p player wants to play with a f2p player they can hop on f2p matchmaking all together. When csgo did this i had no problem whatsoever nor my f2p friends who got the game after the cs got free. It's a win win honestly. Valve gets their money and we meet less bots for people who will spend the same amount of money as a tiny snack haul for a movie night.
This doesn’t fix anything, if bots are all f2p then f2p players are screwed while p2p players get to actually not worry about bots, that’s also not counting bots that pay for premium, this would solve nothing but divide the community more
@@DerpyTC fair, i can see you worries about that idea, but i have faith in that concept still because i've experienced it on csgo and f2p and p2p servers were all together day and night different. Though the seperation part is the biggest elephant in the room but i dont think i can see valve working on a proper anti cheat on their now-outdated game engine now that they branched to source2. TF2 is the last multiplayer source game that still gets updates, being just tiny fixes or not. Dota2 and CS2 which are their main game projects from what it looks like are on source 2 and obviously vac will be centered around their game engine, and not source1's. Valve can divide the community thankfully or sadly with a paywall behind a premium server queue in just a few hours of coding and will lower at least the bots by a lot in the p2p lobbies. Though again i really hope something better than this idea can be put on and work, though i cannot see any easier solution valve can bring that wouldn't need too much effort for them to not bother
making the game pay to play is double edged, yes the bots will go, but it will take away the fun of new players in casual and limit people who would have played but wont if they have to pay. sniper isn't even the whole issue, if sniper gets fixed, we will get scout bots and soldier direct hit bots. i think pay to play is the main 'whole fix' option sadly. that or a good anti cheat, but I have no idea how they will accomplish that
tbh, engi is really hard to be useful to the team. At a bare minimum, a lv3 on the intel or point with a dispenser close-ish. Everything out of that is wacky stuff
@@SGT_Squid_Dog i know, just liked to mention. if you don't care it's not like i'm going to say to you that you shouldn't be on the community or anything
@@Matheus-gc5fn I'm not part of the community, I just like 2 things about the game and that's it. I distance myself from most/all communities to avoid being targeted or hit by collateral damage
@@SGT_Squid_Dog oh, ok then, i just wanted to mention that when you literally have the prolic pc as something from it you may have a """"small"""" chance of betting back lash when the creator *tried to partially justify shota* and the community is from another community whit problems of sexualism and the *fucking protagonist is mentally 15* but i'll leave it at that
I think that TF2 is and will be alive, but right now the community is really FREAKING restless. Understandably so. We were pretty tight coming out of 2020 - tight enough that valve was able to respond to us at least. But we're getting tired. The TF2 community needs to take a collective breather.
Trust me, you NEED a competent team when playing Engineer. Also it still needs saying but while Valve have been lazy to fix the issue, the real problem is how relentless the cheaters are at finding ways around any fix that stops them. As long as they don't receive some form of lasting consequences from Valve for their behavior they'll keep going.
0:47 People are so obsessed with this because this song has been considered lost media for several years, and was only recently found in PORN of all places
I think a spy camera would be better if you had to actually set it up somewhere, and also set up a sort of receiver for the camera, that way players have to actually be at the receiver to get any meaningful information from the camera.
If we really do #savetf2 again instead of a stupid partition, can we unite like the Helldivers community and ruin the reviews and actually kick up a fuss instead of just sitting around, maybe even ask for community updates like Frontline, Maya Project, etc with a bot fix (maybe even a port to a better engine)
i had an idea of a camera for spy and i tried to make it in blender but i never actually uploaded it anywhere, and i had the same idea and the said camera.
I can tell there were bots the graphics were so wired and strange if you look other games who doesn’t have cheaters there player rates are smooth and tr2 are so spiking up and down so yes you can tell those are bots all along but the game is not dead tf2 community still standing strong
İ really hate the f2p mute, i have to breakdance infront of a medic until they either notice me or i die.
Why dont you become pay to play?
It costs less than a dollar, it was possible for 14 cents or something, may still be.
I feel you
@@Left4Plamz it’s 5 dollars in my country
Whats your steam user. Ill see if i can gift it to you
I don't get why you can't access voice commands as f2p.
Like yeah, bots can spam scam links in chat, or just annoying audio in vc... but voice commands? Pre-recorded lines (with a cooldown) meant to let you easily communicate with your team? The fuck are they gonna do with them? Spam E?
"I played at least 4 years without asking the community about their opinion. Like hell am I gonna stop."
"hey yall can go on about how this game is dead, imma just que up for some upward."
You two are officially cool.
"Bots and DDOS may crash my bones, but I still got my sv_cheats 1, nav_generate, tf_bot_add 23"
GEO PFP
Nice Geo PFP
The thing is 25k people is a lot but the bot number is what makes people say its dead
People will never ever agree what dead game means
@@KudoRedfox For Me is when a game has 0 players playing the game for the last 30+ days
Granded if 1 player decides to play that game now that game is alive again then once it hits 0 players playing the game for the last 30+ days then the game becames dead again
With this definition no game can truelly have a Enternal Dead but I think thats a good thing
@@alface935 A game is truely dead if it's multiplayer exclusive and gets shut down
@@KudoRedfox True
Now We wait for someone to make a Online Service replacer so We can play Online again after the Oficial Servers shutdown
Kinda like Insignia for Xbox, Wiimmfi for DS and Wii, Pretendo Network for 3DS and Wii U, ClassiCube for Minecraft Classic, Open Spades for Ace Of Spades etc
Remember thst Zesty did not say that the game is dead, but that the game's state isn't okay either.
Im sorry, there aren't a ton of bots, i just left my spare 69k computers running TF2 at once.
hey, can i play on one of pcs???
Can I HAVE one of those pcs?
can i have you
Can I ask you to turn some of them off?
Based
Tf2 is in a perpetual limbo, where it is both alive and dead at the same time.
We are not even on life support anymore. Like you said, we are now in endless limbo or Schroedinger state where we are both alive and dead
Schrödinger’s fortress
Its undead
TF2 is suffering from respawn failure
Schrodinger's game
25k-30k is still good for a 17 year old game. Its more than l4d2's 20k-25k
I find that intriguing. I always thought Left 4 Dead has more appeal due to it's co-op nature.
Until I remembered, Versus exists.
Its good yes, but its not a good idea to spread this figure around and say TF2 is perfectly fine.. its not. Being critical and negative despite all it being a downer vibe is needed to foster change from valve
It's 18k
Still good but not 30
@@m4n1987 peak hrs
@@Dan-fn1uw We need to be negetive to valve, Being positive did what? Let tf2 be in a bot crisis for 5+ years? Leave l4d2 unplayable online for 4+ months? Replace csgo with cs2 wich has a cheater problem?
Being toxic positive is only killing us faster. We need to tell valve that they have fucked up hard. They keep lying to us and make excuses.
"this means we are back?.."
"(voice) Medic: No."
Implying we ever left
"this means we are back?.."
"Voice communication is not available for this account."
@@TheREALLofiat yet still kickin'
"...that means we're back?"
_puts on helmet, grabs shovel_
*_taunts._*
16 years still has 20+k very impresisve
Pay to play even if its $1 will make an impact
@@jarenpocopio6033most bots are payed for already with understanding that they will remake the amount they lose
@@jarenpocopio6033you learnt nothing from the antf2p dicc move? Bots are already premiun, you would just further scare the real players.
3:00 that concept is from a roblox tf2 fangame and it's actually really balanced since it can't sap and can only target one player
typical color agents
so many cameras, so little sapping
I was also thinking that
yea agent's camera
It also gives you mini crit if you kill the captured target, I think.
@@bromomento5913 it gives a single (I think) minicrit for a short duration after the target is killed, regardless of if it was killed by the spy or not
People dont realise majority of the players were bots been for years now. The only thing thats changed is the fact its more public knowledge,so everyone is freaking out over practicly nothig changing.
TF2 WILL NEVER DIE.
It is on life support so until we can get ride of the bots
Keep telling yourself
@@dellconagher2_villain_arc yoooooooooooooooooo
e
It will. I see no future if ValvE doesn't actually get their shit together. Pretending it's gonna be fine isn't helping anything.
Look, the day bot problems are fixed, people will come back to restock the empty hole.
Yeah basically I know a ton of people who love the game but hardly play because they miss casual.
Making TF2 Pay to play again doesnt make bots to disappear(cuz according to hosters, there are no use of free account bots, so they are all premium), and AGAIN will only hurt F2P and online will drops real fast
So someone FOR REAL pays money to make bot's account premium? Who is that millionaire?
@@RyanCooperRUit is like a dollar an account you need to buy ANYTHING from the tf2 store
Tf2 being p2p play would make hosting a single bot cost 12 dollars at minimum.
@@RyanCooperRU no life, live I basement, bot hoster for old game
@@RyanCooperRU hacked accounts
The meme with the pink radio and spy saying he found it via pornography is referring to a famous case of "lost media" (not really because the media itself wasn't lost but it's source was) about a segment from a song that the community called "everyone knows that" which people couldn't find the origin/authors of.
It was recently revealed that the song came from a butt film.
0:30 I started playing in 2012 thanks to the video from the guy who played since release. The whole video was rambling about how "TF2 is dead, everyone plays Dota 2 and Minecraft now"
TF2 was dying already when they added very first unlocks (ubersaw, kritzkrieg, blutsauger)
In the end of time everything will begone expect one and that’s TF2 -Sun Tzu
And I'd say he knows a little bit more about TF2 then you do pal because he invented it!
@@cheezeebutter452 And then he perfected it so that no living game could best it in the ring of honor!
@@magnusm4 Then he used his fight money to buy TWO of every bot hoster on Earth, And then he hurdled them onto a boat, and then he beat the crap out of every single one!
"TF2 is dead"
"25k players"
twenty-five thousand is a lot of players... I dunno if that counts as dead.
Considering the steam projected player count is much higher? I think it may be dead.
just ignoring the majority of that is not real people but sure, incredible strawman
L4D2 has 20k-25k so tf2 would be fine without the bots.
@@FrancisL4D Count Left 4 Dead's bot.
Gives me "25 views in 2 seconds bro fell off" vibes
Zesty put it best: it is actually impressive that the game has lasted this long with as many actual players as it has. But the bot situation genuinely does need addressing, sooner rather than later. The game isn't literally going to collapse, but calling it "fine" is a massive stretch.
The difference between Zesty and others covering the bot numbers in the playerbase years back, is he was methodical in is approach used, statistical evidence to back it up and deconstructed and disproved most other possible explanations for anomalies or quirks in the active player statistics.
Oh that and flashy editing of course.
If I got cancer and the make a wish foundation approached me I would ask to update tf2 with a major update
“Hey Ferb, I know what we’re going to do today!”
guess there's a better purpose for these 500 cigarettes
these fucking guys man "only 25K" 25k players is a lot
I’ve played games that I wish had that high of player counts. TF2 is far from dead, especially for a 17 year old game
but when the number of bots is over 3x that, it really isnt
Only 25k compared to what we thought we had
Doesn’t matter if most of the “people” you come across are bots.
now it has 41k
Yeah, TF2 isn’t dead, and it’s not going anywhere for a while. The problem is that big figures in this community are just sitting around pretending that everything is okay. TF2 is still alive but it’s in a terrible state right now and considering that Valve still monetizes the game and they do the bare minimum when it comes to maintaining this game is absolutely unacceptable. We as a community should complain more often and make this issue more widely known rather than “well I’m still playing the game! Everything is alright!” How about we pull a Helldivers 2 and all come together and get valves attention again, but more strictly and straight forward. “Fix your damn game or else I won’t be your customer anymore.”
it's still funny to see TF2bers make 30 minute long "tf2 is dead!!" videos and then like 2 hours later post 4 tf2 funny moments videos
25k people doesn't make much sense now considering that in the 64-bit update made almost all the bots couldn't even open the game, and the number of players even increased having around 65k on average during that week, and now more and more cheat services and bots are being banned or disabled and the playerbase still increasing that argument its getting obsolete too quick, I think about 25% of the player base were actually bots before the update, but now I almost never encounter a single bot in a match, although Jesus was right in most part, but it could be better if he released that video a few months ago because he released the video in a time that the community is starting to become more active just a few days after, with the news about community updates, events, 64 bit update and cheater bans, so yeah is a good video released in a bad moment, sorry if my english is not the best
it took a day or 2 for the bots to be updated iirc
@@flamingrubys11 I played those days and neither my friends or me found a single bot in a week
I have had botted matches all month
Very well, I can compile the demands.
We want:
- Better anti-bot and anti-cheat measures (better third-party app hook-up detection, prevent the player clients from running game in the text mode, add Valve-side capcha for joining Official Servers)
- Rebalance classes (rollback Spy to pre-Jungle Inferno state, give Sniper that Scope Glare effect and Quickscope Delay, as well as increase Reload on Sniper Rifles to 1.5 seconds, remove Projectile Aim assist from Huntsman, rework "bad weapons", rework MvM upgrades for classes and their weapons)
- Rework Casual and Competetive modes, meanwhile disable them while they are being reworked, re-enabling Quick Play back for that time. As for what we want - Casual neeeds to let go of Ranks. Permanently. They serve no purpose at this point of time. And it needs the function that doesn't separate your party members to be finally enabled. Competetive mode - add 9v9 and 2v2 modes, add prizes like discontinued old hats and vouchers that once collected enough, would allow us to get a Cosmetic Case Key.
- "Lost and Found" system that would allow players to regain achievement items whether they were deleted or accidentally sent away due to the glitches, all according to their achievements and such. Example - haunted scrap metal. If you have a "Lost&Found" ticket, using it would make Steam scan your achievements and find the one related to Mann Manor and Merasmus/HHH, look for Horseman's Headtaker and Haunted Scrap Metal, and if you don't have the items, but got the required achievements - then you get your Scrap Metal 100%. And same with all the other achievement items from within the game.
- Remove F2P voice block. At least on the Character Voice Commands. Separating Voicalised Commands from Player Voice Chat should be obvious and should've been done from the start.
@seriamon When it comes to the list this is what I would add to it:
1. Get rid of the bots for ever!
2. Allow free to play to talk in chat
3. allow community to make updates
4.Give us a havy update
And thats all.
Yeah!
meet the havy
A list of demands is a very good idea, I've actually been thinking along similar lines for years now, so it's great someone else also thinks that way.
And if really necessary, we can always say we won't spend any more money on the game if it's not implemented. As long as we're serious it should work.
The TF2 community needs to channel a bit of the energy of the DnD memes subreddit from back in the day.
Me must Chanel the power of hell divers in order to save the game
(Not the review bombing but the unified comunity)
@@karal_the_crazy Yep. But DnD memes from back in the day is better. Well actually the entire united TTRPG fandom against WOTC. They tried to change the license, but for once the multi-million dollar company (Hasbro's) lost. It Was Epic.
The license didn't change and Paizo (Those who made Pathfinder) made the ORC license. My "Free and libre opensource software" friend (And DM) called it a "good license". That shows it's exceptional.
That fight also helped bolster the spirit of resistance and revolution in the DnD subreddit specifically. It united the squabeling subreddit against one thing. They called out WOTC's BS again when they called union busters to raid the house of a youtuber who got an unreleased packet by accident.
Then they tried to resist the changes on Reddit. Every post contained a Goblin. And most (~90%) was art of Goblins which abided closly to the 34th rule (If you get what I mean).
Needless to say, almost all active accounts got banned. Yet they still continued regularly by sending everything to one guy who wasn't banned.
I got busy with stuff after that, so that's where the story ends for me. Snitty's, the end, and a slow recovery.
But the youtuber who regularly covered it so I didn't have to stopped a short way's after, so I can't really get much updates either without going on reddit meself. And I hope you see why I'm reluctant.
But THAT is the power I fear we may channel. That is the power we may be FORCED to channel.
It is a risky and dangerous power. Yet if used correctly, it could do ANYTHING.
Good news everyone Cathook got terminated
(Read in Dr.Farnsworth voice)
0:40 this is so good lmao, most people don't realize how hard painting like this is
Also I'm sad that Zesty's video is getting the attention it did not need 😔It's just fearmongering
Zesty is the worst TF2uber by far.
Epic art
@@zekenotech far from it he gave us the cold hard truth
@@flamingrubys11 What, in any of Zesty's autistic soldier main rantings did he "Tell the cold hard truth"?
@@zekenotech researching for over a year to prove that that vast majority of "players" arent actually players? maybe go watch the video instead of blindly raging?
"This game is ded"
Heavy: no, you POW HAHA
Pretty sure people said this when Overwatch was teased.
People will never ever agree what counts as a dead game, ask 5 people and all 5 will give different answers
I think for majority of these who says it's dead it is, because their belief that TF2 is the titan of the games got ruined and for instance Overwatch 2, game that probably these peoples were laughing at for having less players, turns out to have more active players than TF2 . For them this is indeed a total defeat and fact that their game ain't in top 10 or top 15, but around top 50 makes them sink more in their belief.
But I must agree that the game would be in better state if it wasn't so hostile to newcomers. Fact that new players can't use chat and don't know that majority of players sits on community, their casual experience draws them out the game
i'm sorry but i just can't not say to you to leave when you have THAT as a profile picture
I still think the same about the 25 k players now then i did like 3 years ago " WOW 25k players ? No wonder i can find almost all day long good rounds on uncle danes severs and even some good casul matches at prime times"
4:04
-Give a functioning method that gets rid of bots (either make it themselves or hire a group of community members who can)
-fix the restrictions on f2p accounts
-all this within a reasonable timeframe
Ever since the video about how many bots are on TF2 was made, there has been a rising stigma that people believe the game is dying/dead.
Its not. I refuse to believe that there are that many bots at any given time.
TF2 content proves that. Many TF2 based content has shown that there is still a MASSIVE fan base out there. and even if 80% of the total unique views are watching purely for nostalgia, a massive 20% still plays TF2.
That 20% often roughly ranges to the amount of players in-game, or at the very least 90% of the player base.
How? each cheater bot in every game have similar names. Most of the cheater bot names are widely known and are often insta-kicked for having those said names.
And in the case of bots having the same names, I have not seen more than 2-3 bots with the same name.
TF2 is not dead and has been proven time and time again.
We're just going through another phase of "popular TF2-uber says something so it must be true" hysteria.
We all just happen to be rather cynical since there isn't much of an explanation for their constantly being 70k people at all times, that's just not realistic. If you look at other games with similar numbers they have consistent rises and drops, not the weird ass mountain look of tf2s numbers. It's not hysteria, it's just some basic reasoning on a pretty depressing subject. Sure tf2 ain't dead but calling it fine is not true either.
@@Max_Aimz9392
The only redundancy, well two, about that argument are that;
1. Bots do not need to log out;
And 2. The chart for tf2 reads a pretty stable 20k-50k player count WORLDWIDE.
The only reason why the game doesn't "fLucTuAtE" as much as other more popular games (let's use CS2 as an example) is that the player base mainly consists of people in the more western regions of the world (US and EU) while TF2 doesn't have a >player base anywhere.
People go in and out of the game literally 24 hours around the clock around the world
@@Max_Aimz9392 why my comment doesn't show up on my end baffles me
@@tptallen4498you need to watch zesty jesus video, everything you said has been addressed by him.
@tptallen4498 The point is that the reason tf2 has such large numbers are specifically because the bots can't log off.
3:41 Well, that post aged well, considering the revival of the movement.
People obsessing over player count like it will change or affect gameplay, the game has stable player base since 2010 and it's still stable no other game is doing that. TF2 will remain the same and alive for years as Valve makes millions from it with or without youtuber's opinions.
2:53 This is just a complicated version of comms
About the save tf2...it could work i think where things went wrong is that everyone cheered and stopped after 1 comment from valve, this time it goes on till we actually see the update
I thought of a solution for TF2.
Don't play on Valve official servers.
Configure servers that focus on the same gameplay.
Design maps that make playing Sniper impossible, such as a specific class blocking barrier in front of spawn.
Have custom levels that make bot navigation a problem, such as fake paths that are actually windows or invisible doors that don't open.
That would be sick
community servers already have an anticheat against bots, no need to just make sniper impossible to play as.
@@Spooderman77 Just temporary. For a month.
The thing is that the number of players has been CONSISTENT for literal YEARS.
The main issue the most bots posed was an overestimation of how played the game was (which is why people are overreacting, an extreme version of post-empire-syndrome) and some micro-economy stuff. It's the small amount of cheater bots which are the main issue. There should be something done about ALL bots, but it's not the end of TF2 or whatever.
TF2 isn't dead, it's just not thriving like people thought it was.
valve try to remember tf2's existence challenge (impossible)(not possible)(cant be done)
Lol didn't expect my meme to be here. Seriously though, r/tf2 is bipolar.
3:02
That's a really good concept, but TC2(Typical Colors 2) made it even better cus it takes place on the sapper and only reveal one person
And i dont remember if it have something more
I do think if a bunch of passionate people who can afford to go over to Seattle could, if we can manage to get some sort of meeting with people who work on TF2 it could make a bigger impact that we think it could, it’s a lot harder to ignore a person in real life. I don’t mean go storm the Valve HQ or anything just have a talk with some higher ups, maybe even Gabe himself, about the problem.
You really think they are not aware of the problem? Unless you have a solution you are just as useless the people working there
You guys seem to ignore the most basic problem: only three work in this game anymore, and not even full time, everyone else has moved onto hardware and vr games, Valve has literally abandoned this game for years and nobody is in touch with the community anymore.
You can dislike zesty Jesus all you want, but he literally just displays cold hard facts sometimes and seeing so many of the Tf2 community cope and Seethe about him just bringing up the bot stuff was honestly disheartening
2:01 yes for engineer, if you can't aim you'll never be able to defend yourself with your primary, if you don't have gamesense you can't place your buildings in good spots, and if you don't have a good team neither of those first two even matter anyway.
I think we should do another save tf2 BUT we actually do stuff that would hit them AS A COMPANY if we all stop playing tf2 they will not ic but do a bug fix and call it a day, that’s why we should get other communities in on it. Suddenly, oh no nobody is playing portal and half life?? Nobody is on tf2 and csgo? It might be hard to get them in on it but if we do valve will NEVER KNOW WHAT HIT THEM
well tf2 got a 64bit support update and i dont see any bots in casual anymore
You sure? Or are you just lucky to not see bots?
@@ProjectPsycho112 the bot owners cant crack the 64 bit stuff
@@flamingrubys11 lmao, a few bits made these holders fall?
Just paly uncletopia, I'm sure uncle dane would be so happy having more servers to manage.
about the impure injector, there was actually a time when grabbing the enemy medic's medigun was competitively viable. dropped weapons retain their ammo and ubercharge right, so ever since gun mettle, if you go into a fight with uber and the enemy medic doesn't (and they drop it) then you can pick up their medigun to get almost a full second uber right after yours. you would get an insane 100% uber ad whereas if you didn't pick it up, you would only get 40% uber ad. this is still a feature nowadays, except they nerfed it by making the medigun loose charge faster than it previously did
tf2 maybe dead, but the soul still alive
Its not dead do you know how many 25k is?
@@corn582 that why i said "maybe"
@@corn582Overwatch has millions and that's a dead game, right? Bv
@@corn582 seems relatively dead when the amount of bots is nearly three times the amount of real players
@@nubby03 yeah ok thats fair
It's so sad.... My post was almost featured. It was a post for a weapon concept.
L
bot hosts: we bombed this game with 80% bots, Why it wont die!!!
f2p gibus with a sandvich on the hand: *voice commands not available for this account*
Instead of just updates I would prefer to see updates that last instead of another "more cosmetics and few maps". Something like, fixing the tutorial for tf2 or making community servers a lil more accessible or adding new options into the game. 64 bit update was really good because it add longevity to the game and is a good quality of life update which I would love to see more of.
5:00 I put this on my objector. Every time I use it someone schadenfreudes lmao.
Regarding savetf2, we should demand the heavy update, with a few new weapons, something to get rid of the cheating bots, and the final comic.
4:59 I like that post, and no, I am not trolling.
I genuinely like that post.
Shrodingers tf2: it is both alive and dead until the bots are disabled
Personally here is what demands I feel we would want(Most Likely to least likely)
Remove paying for communication since it did nothing against bots
Find a way to Crush Bots
Do some balancing changes
Heavy Update
Smaller related to heavy update for a lunchbox slot instead of using secondary slot for food items
3:23 I use custom projectiles mod which basically flashes when a sniper fires his rifle and its quite visible from very far away, never been more sniper aware before and it legit helps.
If tf2 is dead then steam is dead considering its top 10 even without the bots
2:24 My problem with that take is, that the poster forgets to take in account how many players most of the games need to play the game or to have fun with. The other thing is TF2 how split the playerbase is on casual/community/MVM, gamemodes & maps. In my opinion 20-25k for along time is decent for this type of game, but I think the community & the community servers are the backbone, that carries this number and if something would happen to one of the bigger community servers, the number will sadly tank a bit. Also new players have way to many negative things to deal with (no communication, skill barrier, unoptimized settings etc.), which results in a minuscule amount of new players. Sorry if this sounds like doomposting.
I think people are seeing the situation on a very black or white way, the game is dead or it's healthy, I personally think it's neither, yes the game is doing well 25k people is a high number, however the issue is not the amount of people actually playing, it's the bots, taking care of the bots won't make people suddenly stop playing, that's what's zesty's video is about, calling out valve to take care of the bots, the amount of players will remain the same, but it will make the atmosphere of the game and the economy more healthy.
Regurgitating reddit....truly a tf2 channel
no tf2 not dead
It's taking me way longer find casual matches and just to start as a 6v6...
0:06 For anyone wondering about the Zesty Jesus request, the closest thing I could find that supported bot owners listening to it was the fact that at 22:00UTC, the player count on tf2 went from 68,481 to 55,291 co-current players at a sharp decline. Assuming all of the players that left were bots, that'd be 13,190 bots that left the game. If the "80% of Tf2's players bot's" fact is true, then around 24% of players that left during that day were bots (Bad math, you may correct).
Note that this is not actual evidence, since the player count rose back up to around its original player count at a sharp incline after 8 hours, which I highly doubt the bot owners waited that long before turning their bots back on.
"Waited that long"? The arsehole probably turned them off then he went to sleep
Dear lord please fix me
lets take over tf2 classic
"add a lens glare to sniper when he aims" NO!!! the only solution to the sniper problem is to make a laser light show!!!
Kinda feels poetic actually. In the comics, The Administrator, Redmond and Blutach and even Greymann had life extending machines. Tf2 is the Administrator and we're her life extending machines. And like the comics, we may never know how it ends.
4:25 making a game paid would accomplish nothing, if bot hosters can afford 65k bots then they can afford a 5-10 dollar game
No
Bot hosters can certainly not afford 250 000$ plus worth of tf2 accounts
You don‘t need one 5$ game you need 65k 5$ games
The issue with making tf2 pay to play is that new people may be turned off by the paywall. But i‘d say that’s better than them leaving because of the cheaters
@@seriamon i dont think you would need to rebuy a game you already got for free
@@namebutworse making the game pay to play would only affect accounts that don‘t yet have the game
@@seriamon Wouldn't they just steam family share? (idk how it would work on tf2 so feel free to correct me)
@@seriamonwould that even effect the bots already in the game? I mean if the system barely kicks cheater then there isn't much guarantee the rest of the bots are gonna be affected by it.
Not be offensive but this sounds like people being dicks towards f2ps again but disguised as antibot measures.
0:54 soldier has that 1000 hammer unit stare
I completely agree with saveTF2 2.
We got to create a list of of 95 Things in TF2 that valve has to fix.
#tf2reformation
ps it's probably more but it's a good number
the healthbar thing is gamesession only and happens when you change resolutions
Mfs be acting like 25k people is a small number like bro most games wish they could pull numbers like that.
Edit: also savetf2 wasn't a waste of time, it was just poorly planned. We had a mere two days to make demands and come up with a plan, Imagine the things we could come up with if we had a week or two before we got ready for action.
4:32 THE SCOUTS SHOTGUN LIKE BROTHER HE SHOOTS IT AND THEN TO RELOAD PUMPS IT AND ITS A DOUBLE BARREL LIKE WHATTTTTTTTTTTT
Having only 20000 Players isn't bad
That still puts TF2 in the top 50 (as of the time of Me commenting) most played games on Steam
Being above Terraria at 19514 players and below Red Dead Redemption 2 at 20164
2:17 it's from half-life2 but the combine civil protection can Also be found at the Start of HL:Alyx
The only good thing to come out of this was traders and trade sites having an absolute FEILD DAY with all the doomers panic quickselling their items.
Maybe instead of making the game pay 2 play they can do whatever csgo was doing back in the day. Seperate the matchmaking between f2p and p2p players, so everyone can still enjoy the game but at the same time you can spent like 5 buckaroos to be further from the bots. If a p2p player wants to play with a f2p player they can hop on f2p matchmaking all together. When csgo did this i had no problem whatsoever nor my f2p friends who got the game after the cs got free. It's a win win honestly. Valve gets their money and we meet less bots for people who will spend the same amount of money as a tiny snack haul for a movie night.
This doesn’t fix anything, if bots are all f2p then f2p players are screwed while p2p players get to actually not worry about bots, that’s also not counting bots that pay for premium, this would solve nothing but divide the community more
@@DerpyTC fair, i can see you worries about that idea, but i have faith in that concept still because i've experienced it on csgo and f2p and p2p servers were all together day and night different. Though the seperation part is the biggest elephant in the room but i dont think i can see valve working on a proper anti cheat on their now-outdated game engine now that they branched to source2. TF2 is the last multiplayer source game that still gets updates, being just tiny fixes or not. Dota2 and CS2 which are their main game projects from what it looks like are on source 2 and obviously vac will be centered around their game engine, and not source1's. Valve can divide the community thankfully or sadly with a paywall behind a premium server queue in just a few hours of coding and will lower at least the bots by a lot in the p2p lobbies.
Though again i really hope something better than this idea can be put on and work, though i cannot see any easier solution valve can bring that wouldn't need too much effort for them to not bother
Ok look. No matter who said, no bats an eye. But if Zesty says something about it. Everyone bitches about it.
making the game pay to play is double edged, yes the bots will go, but it will take away the fun of new players in casual and limit people who would have played but wont if they have to pay.
sniper isn't even the whole issue, if sniper gets fixed, we will get scout bots and soldier direct hit bots.
i think pay to play is the main 'whole fix' option sadly. that or a good anti cheat, but I have no idea how they will accomplish that
VACnet, Overwatch, and Trust Factor.
That's my TF2 wishlist
the bots made a small peak at zeus' requested time
tbh, engi is really hard to be useful to the team. At a bare minimum, a lv3 on the intel or point with a dispenser close-ish. Everything out of that is wacky stuff
i'm sorry but i just can't not say it but there are a lot of videos that show why changed is bad you know...
@@Matheus-gc5fn *I really don't care* . Your reply pertains to nothing about the video or my comment.
@@SGT_Squid_Dog i know, just liked to mention. if you don't care it's not like i'm going to say to you that you shouldn't be on the community or anything
@@Matheus-gc5fn I'm not part of the community, I just like 2 things about the game and that's it. I distance myself from most/all communities to avoid being targeted or hit by collateral damage
@@SGT_Squid_Dog oh, ok then, i just wanted to mention that when you literally have the prolic pc as something from it you may have a """"small"""" chance of betting back lash when the creator *tried to partially justify shota* and the community is from another community whit problems of sexualism and the *fucking protagonist is mentally 15* but i'll leave it at that
Every casual game i've joined today, there's has been bots :(
The game isn’t dead as long as the game has the indestructible community the game will never die
That greasebucket zesty Jesus can’t get us down, keep having the most fun you can online!
did you have to make it so easy to notice that you didn't watch his videos and got all your info from leddit
@@unfunniestman was it not obvious that I don’t car
@@unfunniestman vroom vroom
I think that TF2 is and will be alive, but right now the community is really FREAKING restless. Understandably so. We were pretty tight coming out of 2020 - tight enough that valve was able to respond to us at least. But we're getting tired. The TF2 community needs to take a collective breather.
Been a tf2 player for a year and I thought bots were actual humans raiding the servers for like a month
Overwatch died twice and paladins was brought to deaths door before tf2 stumbled this is a absolute W
Trust me, you NEED a competent team when playing Engineer. Also it still needs saying but while Valve have been lazy to fix the issue, the real problem is how relentless the cheaters are at finding ways around any fix that stops them. As long as they don't receive some form of lasting consequences from Valve for their behavior they'll keep going.
0:47 People are so obsessed with this because this song has been considered lost media for several years, and was only recently found in PORN of all places
I think a spy camera would be better if you had to actually set it up somewhere, and also set up a sort of receiver for the camera, that way players have to actually be at the receiver to get any meaningful information from the camera.
If we really do #savetf2 again instead of a stupid partition, can we unite like the Helldivers community and ruin the reviews and actually kick up a fuss instead of just sitting around, maybe even ask for community updates like Frontline, Maya Project, etc with a bot fix (maybe even a port to a better engine)
That would work, if only Valve cared enough about TF2 like how Sony cared about Helldivers II.
we gotta make a 95 theses for tf2 and send it to valve as an ultimatum
the community needs to demand community updates like end of the line, if valve wont give major updates at least the community can
i had an idea of a camera for spy and i tried to make it in blender but i never actually uploaded it anywhere, and i had the same idea and the said camera.
I can tell there were bots the graphics were so wired and strange if you look other games who doesn’t have cheaters there player rates are smooth and tr2 are so spiking up and down so yes you can tell those are bots all along but the game is not dead tf2 community still standing strong