Yes, I know the rumor that Killing Joke was meant to be canon, but explaining the nuance would have been a tangent that wouldn't really flow well in the video because Fabok and Johns have both talked multiple times about the now debunked history of it not originally being so and how it was their goal to follow in its footsteps with Three Jokers. For this video, I went with their narrative of Killing Joke's canonicity for the sake of flow.
@@thedarkknightdetective2559 Yeah, Moore has been very open that was always the intent, nor can there be any gap given you see Barbara in her wheelchair in Death in the Family. The narrative came about from people not understanding that Barbara really was "disposable" at that point in DC history.
It might have been the worst retcon and a mistake but I can’t deny how funny it is to imagine three Jokers having to create a schedule to determine who is where at what time to make sure the illusion isn’t broken.
It worked rather well as a Commentary on how often Joker stories were being told, of course there’s three of them the Joker is being used over and over
I prefer the idea of the "three" Jokers being three personalities that the ONE Joker uses depending on his whims. In other words, he reinvents his entire identity depending on what he wants to do. This is also Grant Morrison's idea from his famous run on Batman. Having three literal Jokers is just so dumb and overly complicated in my opinion. Also the Joker's true identity should never been set in stone ever. To me, he represents the random senseless violence that took away Bruce's parents. It's much more of an existential threat if Joker's true identity is always a mystery, filled with contradictions.
You know it’s funny, I haven’t enjoyed the Chip run very much at all, it’s been a mess, but I’m really glad that he seems to have fixed or at least reset a lot of the problems with modern Batman continuity going forward. I have a feeling it’ll be looked at much the same as Nick Spencer’s run on Spider-Man in the future. We’re still missing Alfred though 😢
@@pokejosephNo, you stop. Their gender identity is very well know, it's in the video, and if someone doesn't know or misgenders them, correcting them calmly like was done here is the way to do it.
0:21 People to this day completely miss this panel and take Joker's "The Killing Joke" backstory as an absolute truth. "-What did he tell you, Harley? Was it the line about the abusive father, or the one about alcoholic mom? Of course, the runaway orphan story is particularly moving, too. What was it he told that one parole officer? Oh, yes... "There was only one time I ever saw dad really happy. He took me to the ice show when I was seven..." -Circus. He said it was the circus."
I think the multiple choice is just something Joker tells himself (and Batman) to escape from the truth, and his backstory in Killing Joke is the correct one (at least as far as in-this-one-comic canon goes). Otherwise the comic itself would support this assertion by showing contradictions or mutually exclusive elements in the story presented in flashbacks, proof that he remembers it differently each time. Alan Moore would've absolutely done that in a subtle way if that had been his intention.
@@ramonoski I agree and I like to think of that backstory as his true origin. However, it should still remain ambiguous. It should never be proven true like the Three Jokers story tried to do.
@@ramonoski He can tell himself whatever he wants, he's crazy! The parallel story in The Killing Joke is just that, a flashback story the graphic novel is telling us, not a story Joker is telling us with his unreliable narrator bullshit. He's probably embarrassed that he was a loser who should have gotten his job at ACE back after failing at his midlife crisis attempt at standup comedy. His wife should have told him to start flipping burgers at the Gotham Grill or she was gonna leave him. This is why I will always prefer Jack Napier.
I hated this whole story, but the thing I hate the most is Jason’s note to Barbara at the end. “I’ll go to therapy if you date me. I’ll even stop being Red Hood.” Nice way to put all the pressure of your mental health recovery on her. Glad it was swept away 😂
When I was listening to Comicstorian's reading of the comic (God bless his soul) I was so confused when he reads the part with Barb and Jason like .... "I'm listening to the comic about Joker right?" This ship is so out of no where
I do like the idea that Joker is truly just a rotten person, even before the acid. Batman knowing he is makes sense to, he is the world’s greatest detective
Honestly I feel like Joker makes the most sense as just a massive narcissist. Still mentally unwell, but not the full blown comic book crazy he's normally painted as. The acid didn't destroy his mind along with his body, it just warped his perception of himself and gave him license to indulge in his worst impulses.
My wish fulfillment version of him has always been that of a stereotypical internet troll, just way more off the cuff. Deeply unhappy and only capable of feeling any excitement unless causing another person harm in some way. While in turn shielding themselves through an ironic detachment from their own emotions.
@@nathanl8622I don’t think the Joker ever forgot who he was, he just chose to ignore the reality of him being a huge dick in favor of portraying himself as the victim
@@nathanl8622 People like to pretend killers and monstrous people are different by separating them from humanity and putting them in categories they make up based on misunderstood psychological terms Even in the comics its ambiguous if he would actually be considered "crazy", interesting stuff
He asked for the same reason he asked who killed his parents, to check if the chair really knew everything. It was only when the chair told him that there were 3 that he was surprised, maybe he expected only the name he knew.
It's also weird hoe the chair baaically refused orders. Bruce didn't ask "How many Jokers are there?", he asked "What's the Joker's true name?" Answering that question with "There are three Jokers" just... ignores the question? An actual answer would say "There are three Jokers, named X, Y and Z." Anything short of that doesn't answer the question Bruce asked lmfao.
@@reaperz5677sure but that's a flaw on the reasoning or writing of the chair, Batman asking is becuase he already knows.. And how wouldn't he.. It's the same reason it's not a big deal when batman's identity is ever revealed to the joker.. He either already knows or doesn't care.. Wether or not they know each other's true identify doesn't change the battle between Batman and Joker
So my hot take is that canonizing the Joker's backstory from The Killing Joke does not in fact go against the entire point of the comic and in fact reinforces it. See. The way I've always read The Killing Joke is that the picture it paints of The Joker is that of a man desperate for an external validation for his life of cruelty. He's absolutely desperate to prove to himself and to the one person who gives him the time of day that secretly everyone is like him deep down, because he's absolutely terrified of the alternative. Absolutely terrified of ever acknowledging that maybe he's in the wrong, that maybe it's him that's broken and not the world. That's even the whole deal with his multiple choice origin nonsense. It is explicitly, textually nonsense. Throughout the comic we are explicitly shown his origin story. He just lies to himself and says he doesn't remember it because he doesn't want to. Because as Batman straight up says to him in the comic itself, "Maybe ordinary people dont always crack. Maybe there isnt a need to crawl under a rock with all the other slimy things when trouble hits. Maybe it was just you, all the time." Thats why we're explicitly shown his backstory. Its an intentional contrast to the words coming out of his mouth. That's my two cents anyways.
The Joker doesn't need three personalities. He's an agent of chaos. One day he can throw a pie in the mayors face, and the next, he can blow up a hospital. He does what he finds funny. Sometimes that's catastrophic. Sometimes it's just inconvenient.
@ShockwaveFPSStudios You are not thinking of chaos the correct way. It's inherently chaotic that he throws pies and robs banks sometimes. You are looking at chaos as the goal, and not the action. It's not. Well, not always, as an inherently chaotic person would not have consistent goals.
Fr. Like how in Batman's birthday (idk how he found out his bday but whatever) he always does crazy schemes like, planting bombs in a building, planting bombs on a child, etc. But one day he decides to do nothing just to F with Batman as he tries to find out what Joker is planning before it happens
they should went the Batman Beyond route, when Joker die he basically respawn in someone else body he prep in advance,but because of how human work they will be slightly different so 3 Joker just mean he died twice so there's 3 slightly different Joker
The problem with giving Joker a backstory isn't that it undoes his character in any meaningful sense imo, but just that he's a character different artists have taken in wildly different directions and so it's kind of impossible to go back and give him an origin story that works as a lead-in to all those different takes. Making him literally multiple different people is a cute meta approach to the question, but as an actual explanation it's just asinine.
I agree, but I actually prefer the idea of us never actually knowing his backstory/origins. He is a lot more ominous and interesting when we don't know why he is so mad. Was he born like that? Did something major happen that broke him? Was it a bunch of little things? It's more enjoyable to me if he is just a mad man whose motivations we can't even being to understand/predict. Feeds into that unpredictability
Man, Linkara makes a good Jonkler. The issue with Zdarsky's versions of the origin is that it still doesn't quite fit with the Mobius Chair's request for clarification on which Joker's identity Bruce wanted to know. If the three Jokers are weird quantum multiverse anomaly duplicates of one guy and then two of them were immediately killed, then they all share the same true identity and that there was three of them for about five minutes is a weird blip and not a mystery at all. There's one Joker with one real origin, and the Chair should be able to answer. If the three Jokers are three distinct personalities within the same man, two of whom were created within Joker's mind via training from Capito, then the question still only has one answer. There's one true identity, and the other two don't _have_ true identities, they're just different bits of the same dude's brain.
This is what the JOKER franchise should have been. Each film could have been a different Joker that existed. JOKER 2 should have been William Dafoe’s criminal Joker in early 90s with the colorful/Gordon gecko suits (American psycho) 😀
Personally, I just say the Three Jokers should have pretty much stayed being an evolution of the character to adapt to the presence of Batman in Gotham, three eras of the same character so distinct from each other that you swear that they have to be three different people: The Criminal being a mob boss that's more dangerous than Carmine Falcone, Black Mask or Sal Maroni, who has grown bored of dealing with the GCPD and sees Batman as a new, more interesting challenge that brings a smile back to his face. The Clown being the next stage in the Joker's fixation on Batman, spending his time coming up with wild life-threatening "pranks" to try and push Batman to the limits of his no-kill rule, proving all it takes is "one bad day" to become just like him. And the Comedian being the Joker at his breaking point as he fully embraces his craving to watch the world burn just for laughs, whilst Batman tries to stop him yet never accepts that maybe killing the Joker would be the best option for the sake of everyone, since he's become that dangerous. Three Jokers for three stages in his life that revolve around his growing obsession with Batman, each becoming more and more dangerous and unhinged as the years go by - it might not be perfect for a comic book that needs to keep being sold forever, but it's just how I feel it would work best.
Joker manipulating Batman into forgiving his parents' killer and moving past his childhood trauma just so that he'd be the biggest problem in his life is some real Joker level pettiness. "No, I"M the worst thing to ever happen to you!"
I honestly think it's dumb as fuck. Why would the joker make batmans life slightly better to make him worse by default. He wouldn't do this, he would simply do something worse in order to top Joe Chill.
"There's not just one Joker, but instead three. And funnily enough, when DC finally gave us an explanation, there's not one, there's three. So I guess that's nine Jokers in total. How exactly does that work?" Yeah, how exactly does that work? Your math doesn't math. 1x3=3, not 9.
Yeah, that really confused me to. The only thing I can think he meant was maybe the fact that they gave two separate explanations, the 3 physical Jokers and then replacing that explanation with the 3 personalities. But even that is 6 Jokers, not 9.
Same. I hate all these stories that try to treat the Joker like he's so fucking deep and give him cosmic importance. It feels like rewarding a mass shooter with the media attention he craves, like the Joker *wants* us to treat him like he's so deep and important and the writers started believing his hype.
I agree and disagree. I don't have a problem with presenting him profoundly/as a deep character. He's deep in Killing Joke, and I love that comic to bits BECAUSE of that. But he was also just a guy in that story. I do have a problem with how he's written as NOT ONLY being obsessed about Batman, but being obsessed about BEING OBSESSED about Batman. To use Johnn's writing in "The Three Jokers" as an example, The Comedian kills the other three Jokers and does the whole Joe Chill-plot because he wants Batman to only focus on him. Joker having an obsession with Batman can work fine if done well, but going this overboard with this character trait flattens the Jokers character, making him annoying and boring, and worst of all, strays away from what makes him compelling. He's a murder clown. I don't inherently have a problem with him being presented as a superhuman death god. But I prefer when those interpretations are few and far between, to spice things up every now and then, and told with intention. I also don't really have a problem with alluding to him being a millenias old demon, if it's left ambigous. Maybe he is? Maybe he isn't????? That sorta stuff can be fun if executed well.
There are many things that annoy me about this whole "Three Jokers" deal, but the main one that absolutely grinds my gears is how the story tries to tie up stuff like the New Gods and multiverses to the Joker. No, stop that. The entire deal of the Joker's story with Batman is that they're just two physically exceptional but still relatively normal people going at each other, and Joker's backstory remaining an unsolved mystery is not just key to the character's appeal but also makes it poignant to Batman's career as a detective. That's the one mystery he'll never solve and it's important it remains that way. This sort of thing that modern writers don't seem to understand. Yes, street level characters like Batman and Spider-Man are part of a larger universe and they will eventually face larger, completely out-of-whack adversaries and events, but that doesn't mean you have to make it a constant part of their personal life. They've basically completely ruined Spider-Man's appeal by turning him into a multiversal hero and they're trying to do this shit with Batman too. And don't even mention that time they made the freaking Punisher a freaking angel. Stop it. You have other heroes to do this kind of thing with. Leave the street-level heroes to do what they do best.
I never understood the significance of the Joker having different iterations throughout the years. Because that is basically the case for every single comic book character. So I don't get why it supposedly needs to be explained in this story
Just a little correction: Killing Joke was always meant to be canon. Just go and read Barbara Kesel's interview (she's the writer of the 1988's Batgirl Special) where she says that she literally was given the job to retire Batgirl because of a future big project they had ahead. For those of you that still don't believe it just read "A Death in The Family" which is still considered canon: in Joker's first appearance in "A Death in The Family" he comments on the fact that the policemen seems particularly angry at him this time and one of his henchmen says that this has probably to do with what Joker has done to Gordon's daughter and he explicitly mentions that he made her a cripple. So no, Killing Joke was always meant to be canon. P.S. One of the most stupid things i haven't seen mentioned is that the Moebius' chair gives Batman the possibility to asks only 2 questions and the chair will respond to both of them. Batman asks about his parents' killer name despite the fact he knew that it was Joe Chill and he asked about the real name of the Joker when apparently he knew it sence the beginning (due to the Three Jokers' finale). So Batman had the possibility to ask an all-powerful IKEA piece the solution about ANY human problem or question like how to solve world's hunger or why do we live JUST to ask for 2 confirmations. Ludicrous
I'm personally a fan of Gotham's take on this general concept, with the first 'Joker' using a contingency plan to turn his brother into the more classic version
I like the idea of the Three Jokers as well, and I think the three of them should’ve been the identities of the Joker in other Batman media outside of the comics. Like have Jack Napier White be the Criminal because Jack White’s the traditional Joker, Arthur Flick could be the Clown since he lives in a society where he’s treated as a clown, and then John Doe could be the Comedian due to him getting mad at Riddler for being rude towards his punchlines.
I bought the 3 Jokers graphic novel but I don’t read many DC comics, I just thought it sounded cool. I didn’t realize this was meant to be canon, but I’ll just treat it as an elseworlds story
What Geoff Johns will never understand is that serialized comic book writing is a collective work. Each author adds a piece of the puzzle and what's left at the end is a creative frankenstein, confusing, yes, but absolutely unique. The first time I noticed it was when Superboy suddenly had another origin, one that transformed him into the lowest common multiple of origins: he was a clone of Superman and Lex Luthor. That kind of writer's God complex then spread to Power Girl (it's not fashion, it's that she doesn't know what symbol to use), Hal Jordan (he didn't have gray hair, it was a virus from space), then to Flash, in the New 52 it spread over the entire DC Universe and in recent years its tentacles reached even the bible of superheroes: Watchmen. Johns believes he is such a good writer that his job is to correct the work of the hundreds of writers who came before him. This bizarre reconstruction of the Jokers is part of the same. As his failed film experience shows, his thing is not creation, but recreation. I'd be surprised if his next step isn't to do the same with the Marvel Universe, he certainly has nothing left to destroy in DC.
I actually have a fan-made earth that I redesigned a crap ton of DC characters, and one of my personal changes was to make Joker a symbiote like venom in order to explain the completely different versions of Joker over time
Fixating on why the Joker is inconsistent is a ludicrous thing because nearly every DC character has been written to be inconsistent due to how long they've been around. With the Joker there's the least reason to analyze it.
I hate it when comic book writers get hung up on characters not being 100% consistent throughout their ~70 years of history. Joker is different at different times because he is written by different writers. You don't have to come up with some convoluted lore explaining the reason.
I’ve always loved the idea of joker just being bored sometimes and as a consequence is either a way bigger threat or completely juvenile in his actions.The war of jokes and riddles was a great story that fleshed out a different arc in jokers life
Say what you will about the story, but the art in this book is absolutely AMAZING. Some of my favourite art in a comic book ever, it's arguably Jason Fabok's best work.
Joker having three personalities is definitely one the better interpretations, it adds to his madness while also making him scarier since you don’t know which one you’re dealing with and explains how his different schemes can change in severity.
I actually love the idea of Joker learning from the person who trained Batman. It just makes sense how he’s always a step ahead. Side note: if you did that Joker impression in your video. Hats off it was amazing!
I was really annoyed with Geoff Johns' The Three Jokers comic because it trivialized all the things I liked about the Joker. But you have to admit, the art is really impressive
Speaking of abandoned storylines, apparently at one point (pre-New 52 era), Batman was supposed to have known more info about Dick Grayson’s parents, but that plot thread was never followed up on!
A correction, but much of what we associate with "Silver Age Joker" actually predates the Comic's Code Authority, and were just general pushes from editorial to lighten Batman up. The story giving the "chemical bath" origin for example was 1951.
5:15 Heh cool that’s a cool voice kinda sounds like Mark Hamils take 5:22 Wait a minute I know that laugh that Linkara. Thats sick I love both your channels to death.
7:50 I think this sums up my biggest problem with the three jokers, it doesn’t do anything gutsy and because it tries to perfectly fit into continuity, everything returns to a status quo. If the book is mon canon then it does nothing unique or interesting, If the book is canon then it has barely any impact on the batman mythos
This video touches on so many things that keep me from being able to enjoy these comics. There are SO many different timelines and alternate versions of every character, you can never know which timeline you're in, or what happened in the past of that particular story. And everything you read in that story might just be ignored by the next story. It's absolute chaos.
I'm so frigging bored with all these retcons and writers trying too hard to make some kind of mark on the character. It's like everyone's busting their balls to achieve the legend status of guys like Moore and Miller while not realizing how obvious it is what they're doing, thinking they'll be sitting in interviews and play it all cool like "yeah, I changed the character forever, whaddaya know, just another day at work for me". And this is the most obvious with the character of The Joker, writer's constantly trying to outdo one another in coming up with weird shit. "I know, he cuts his face off!" "Nah, nah, check this out! There were THREE of him along?" "That's nothing! I make the great reveal that he's an incarnation of a serial killing demon!" "Ha! Rookie level stuff! BEHOLD! I'M MAKING HIM THE HOLDER OF THE FORBIDDEN SPIGOT OF THE ANCIENT, TEN-GEAR WANKING MACHINE, THE ONE THAT WILL THROW THE UNIVERSE INTO ETERNAL, NIHILISTIC DARKNESS!" Just stop and focus on a good story instead of these pretentious efforts to be groundbreaking.
I’ll be honest, I never really bought into the whole ambiguous backstory thing because everything in Killing Joke except for that one line points towards the tragic backstory being the clear definitive origin. To me, the multiple choice line is more so about how Joker as a person rejects his history because he doesn’t want to be tethered to any single identity.
I prefer the supersanity explanation. Joker's motivations are beyond our comprehension because he is aware of things we are not. It's a simple way to explain his inconsistent character that has little impact on other characters and the greater lore.
I'll be damned, guess great minds _do_ think alike. Even before watching I already was thinking "Someone so psychologically broken couldn't possibly have one consistent personality" Kinda hilarious all this effort has been made over the years, when in canon all that would've sufficed is something like "Extreme and unique case of Dissociative Identity Disorder"
My headcanon on why the answer of three Jokers is probably because at some point in time, is because somehow, somewhere, sometime. The Joker was given the opportunity to rewrite history, and since he wanted to have a multiple choice backstory, he did exactly that. Messing up the time lime by adding 3 diverging explanations to who he is and why he became the Joker. This is not only in character for him to do, but also a fitting explanation... There are three Jokers, because the Joker didn't want nosy people spoiling the fun.
I never noticed before how much Linkara's Joker voice has stuck in my mind. It tricked my brain into thinking you got one of the actual voice actors for a second.
It’s almost like the “mystery box” angle with The Joker is stupid. Seriously, even Bill Finger gave him an origin. Why can’t Joker just be…a guy? Just some guy who used to work at a chemical plant who fell in and “went crazy” (despite the fact that The Joker is NOT ACTUALLY INSANE!).
The complaint of 3 jokers running around never maid sense to me because when the reveal of that premise in full also ends up with there being one joker alive by the end of the book!! So the complaint about the retcon and everything is just really ridiculous to me😂😂
9:55 it's not ambiguous. It's not one in motion. It's literally 3. THREE. You know it's literally three, because they ask for a FOURTH. If he asked for another, that might be slightly ambiguous. But they literally ask for a 4th. There needs to be 3 already to get a 4th
It wouldn’t be out of line for Joker to have 3 personalities considering how sometimes he’s written to either be a criminal, a serial killer, or a bombastic villain. Heck, Joker’s quote “If I’m to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice” can still work because his split personalities would twist his perspective on what really happened to him and how doctors can’t seem to figure him out.
The biggest problem I’ve had with 3 jokers is: they treat creating a new Joker as a formula and that ruins what makes the character unique. Arkham Knight made the same mistake with the “joker disease” plot. It’s become a formula on how not to write Joker at this point. “One bad day is enough to turn the sanest man alive into lunacy”does not mean every sane man who has a bad day turns into the joker.
I really enjoyed this comic. I feel it resolves a lot of loose threads in under the red hood, killing joke, death of the family, zero year. Red hood one acted a lot like joker, but also so did the comedian. There's room for multiple origins i feel.i wish wed get stories wrapped up nicely before a reboot.
I am pretty sure I remember Film Theory/MatPat doing a video on who they believed the three joker's were years ago. He concluded that it likely symbolized the three different eras of the joker (golden, silver, and bronze ages). It kinda sounds like the writers just backed themselves into a corner, saw that video, and went, "whatever, let's just do that."
In my opinion, the only bad thing about the Three Jokers story, is the reveal about Batman knowing his identity and about Jokers family at the end. But otherwise I really like the book. I find the story interesting, the ''final'' scene in the police car between Batman and Joker (i think) is quite cool and also that Jason Fabok art is so good. Also (and i'm probably gonna get hate for this but) as someone who likes Nightwing with Starfire more, I kinda dig the Batgirl x Red Hood paring so the moments between them in the book I found quite interesting. That's my opinion on the Three Jokers story. Also, very well done video Mr. Drake 👍 Maybe next time could be a video about another DC Crisis, or any interesting event in DC or Marvel, pretty please? 😅😁
I think the three physical Jokers concept works depending on the continuity. For example, the Wold Newton Crossover Universe has its own unique take on the Batman lore wherein the Caped Crusader is actually a mantle passed down to various heirs - like Bruce Wayne is the Batman of the Golden Age, the original Dick Greyson becomes the Batman of the ‘60s TV series (which fictionalizes him as the original Bruce Wayne), then Bruce Wayne Jr. becomes the Batman of the 70s-80s, then Azrael becomes the Batman of the ‘90s, etc. So within that context, having three Jokers representing different eras and portrayals makes a lot more sense.
First, great video as always. You make great content. Second, while watching this video I realized that I hate almost every Batman story since 2011. The New 52 sucked. Snyder's Joker as a possible God, sucked. Death OF The Family sucked. Morrison's run on Batman sucked. 3 Jokers sucked. Zdarsky's follow-up sucked. Everything to do with the Failsafe story arc sucks. Everything to do with Dark Knights Death Metal or whatever the hell it was called, and The Batman Who Laughs... SUCKS. Man... I've liked bits and pieces of some storylines, like Batman: Earth One, and "Zero Year"... But... But most of Batman for the last 13 years has been trash.
Paul Dini's run wasn't bad at least but i agree. It makes me laugh so hard that of all the Batman villains that could fake their deaths to activate some bogus storyline Penguin was the one chosen. Penguin faked his death in the Brave and the Bold depicting Joker as his killer and putting Batman on his trail. Penguin faked his death back when he worked with Mortimer Kadaver to gain the upper hand against the Ventriloquist and Scarface back when Alan Grant wrote the Batman book. Penguin even got "almost" killed recently because of Jason Todd. If i was Bruce i would have put a condition in Failsafe's program for which if the guy killed was Penguin it didn't need to activate because surely it was a bluff 😂
The problem is Geoff Johns simply has to have every version of every character alive and co-existing at the same time. Most of his stories are about reviving old characters.
Thanks for the video! Glad to know I'm not the only one following Zdarsky's Batman run because of how bonkers it is. Also, that's a slick suit you wore!
I liked the idea of 3 Jokers, and I liked the psychological pain it could give to each of Batman's sidekicks. It would have been better if Batman didn't know the one surviving Joker's identity. As it really undercuts the whole asking the morbius chair the identity of the Joker and the mystique of the character. I also liked that this was about getting Batman to move on from Joe Chill. I really think this could have worked as a concept and it's a shame it fell short.
I do like the idea of three Jokers in the sense of 3 types of personalities, and even if there happened to be 3 plausible different origins. The idea of him staying a Schroedinger's cat that can not actually be observed. He would stay a mystery that Bruce could almost be convinced that maybe there are 3 people, but the evidence also says that it is impossible. Whenever someone would get close to finding an answer, a big contradiction would always pop up. He could even be cosmic, but as soon as that is believed, a new piece of evidence would contradict it. In a meta sense that not even Bat-Mite can overcome, he stays a mystery. Any attempt to actually solve the Joker is impossible.
I’m not gonna lie- I kind of really like Batman knowing who Joker is. It takes away the Joker’s power. He’s not some “all powerful, mysterious, evil deity”-he’s a jerk who fell into some chemicals and became Gotham’s Bully. Just my take, though. Great Video as usual, Dude.
For me the concept of three Jokers is the official equivalent of the Vinesauce video, where he dubbed and edited episodes of the Super Mario cartoon, with the premise of Luigi being a doppelganger based on an animation error. It just feels so weird how some writers try to rationalize inconsistensies of characters of characters, which were clearly the result of changing editorialship, times they were made in, writers and being in different continuities.
In Batman the mask of phantasm, before being an insane clown, the joker was a Mafia boss (or something like that, like a gangster or something idk I forgot lol)
It's kind of genius to have the multiple personalities be from training since it plays into the Joker actually being completely sane and aware of his actions. It sort of explains how he can go from poisoning the water supply to legally running an insurance agency to blowing up a building when there's no punchline. It adds to the chaos of not knowing the urgency of any Joker plot. Also, the Cold Death Joker not laughing is like if Spider-Man stops cracking jokes: absolutely terrifying. Imagine passing him in Arkham and he's just sitting there, staring. 😱
My first interpretation of three jokers was that it was going to be a kind of fight club thing, with 3 separate but somewhat connected personalities, but they weren’t going to tell you who the original personality was or smth like that
Funny how Geoff Johns tried to make sequels to some of DC's most well known stories (ape-off if you will) but Three Jokers and Doomsday Clock landed as duds. The delays hindering them so much they can't even fit in continuity. Also they can insist Joker not having an origin but... nah he has one its the acid did and Jack Napier. Like it or not but it's been absorbed by the fans and it being the to go to from multiple projects.
Honestly, a little surprised that we didn’t drive dive into the Man who stopped laughing where they once again had multiple jokers. However, that one I actually enjoyed a little more, I thought it was actually a pretty decent red Hood story
I got the three jokers graphic novel trade back thing. I hate to say it but it was really boring and hard to focus on. Idk why. Maybe cuz it ended up being a primarily Jason and Barbara focused story. Which I wasn’t opposed too but it just felt so disconnected from BATMAN cuz it was BATMAN that asked the question. Jason and Barbara never gave the vibe to me that they even gave a shit about who he actually was. Only that they wanted him stopped. But idk maybe I missed something. Edit: ALSO THE JASON AND BARBARA ROMANCE REALLY CAME OUT OF NOWHERE FOR ME.
I was surprised they didn't go with the three personalities to begin with because that was always my theory before The Three Jokers Comic came out. Wail, i still think the recent retcon is still kinda messy i'm glad they decided to go with that angle rather then there are literally three of him running around.
The way I'd retcon it is that it's the same dude but Batman beats him so bad on multiple occasions that he just gets amnesia. Wakes up and comes up with a new backstory for how he got the way he is and what Batman has to do with it.
![[LIVE] : ONE ลุมพินี 85 | คู่เอก "ยอดเหล็กเพชร vs ผึ้งหลวง"](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/Qq_19bnnxEo/mqdefault.jpg)
Yes, I know the rumor that Killing Joke was meant to be canon, but explaining the nuance would have been a tangent that wouldn't really flow well in the video because Fabok and Johns have both talked multiple times about the now debunked history of it not originally being so and how it was their goal to follow in its footsteps with Three Jokers.
For this video, I went with their narrative of Killing Joke's canonicity for the sake of flow.
@@ComicDrake I'm gonna need to know more
You're saying it was meant to be canon?
@@thedarkknightdetective2559 Yeah, Moore has been very open that was always the intent, nor can there be any gap given you see Barbara in her wheelchair in Death in the Family. The narrative came about from people not understanding that Barbara really was "disposable" at that point in DC history.
@@rainspectre3153 so I'm confused it was intended to be canon?
This just continues the line of terrible retcons Geoff Johns has been doing since he got on Teen Titans
This three jokers comment is non canon and was softly reconned with the 3 jokers bit being multiple personalities revealed more recently
It might have been the worst retcon and a mistake but I can’t deny how funny it is to imagine three Jokers having to create a schedule to determine who is where at what time to make sure the illusion isn’t broken.
Seeing a joker chilling on the couch with a big calender behind him for when he is supposed to harass gotham is hilarious😂
It worked rather well as a Commentary on how often Joker stories were being told, of course there’s three of them the Joker is being used over and over
its like how criminals think theres gotta be more robot Batman cause hes everywhere
three jokers isnt canon
@@waypastkoool it is to me
I much prefer grant Morrison’s idea that joker just evolved his persona over time like an artist going through different periods.
And taking drugs
Same!
Yes😮😮😅
Similar to Jeremiah after falling down in the chemicals he was different
I prefer the idea of the "three" Jokers being three personalities that the ONE Joker uses depending on his whims. In other words, he reinvents his entire identity depending on what he wants to do. This is also Grant Morrison's idea from his famous run on Batman. Having three literal Jokers is just so dumb and overly complicated in my opinion.
Also the Joker's true identity should never been set in stone ever. To me, he represents the random senseless violence that took away Bruce's parents. It's much more of an existential threat if Joker's true identity is always a mystery, filled with contradictions.
They. Morrison is NB.
You know it’s funny, I haven’t enjoyed the Chip run very much at all, it’s been a mess, but I’m really glad that he seems to have fixed or at least reset a lot of the problems with modern Batman continuity going forward. I have a feeling it’ll be looked at much the same as Nick Spencer’s run on Spider-Man in the future.
We’re still missing Alfred though 😢
@@rainspectre3153 Stop. Please
@@pokejosephhuh??
@@pokejosephNo, you stop. Their gender identity is very well know, it's in the video, and if someone doesn't know or misgenders them, correcting them calmly like was done here is the way to do it.
0:21 People to this day completely miss this panel and take Joker's "The Killing Joke" backstory as an absolute truth.
"-What did he tell you, Harley? Was it the line about the abusive father, or the one about alcoholic mom? Of course, the runaway orphan story is particularly moving, too. What was it he told that one parole officer? Oh, yes... "There was only one time I ever saw dad really happy. He took me to the ice show when I was seven..."
-Circus. He said it was the circus."
I think the multiple choice is just something Joker tells himself (and Batman) to escape from the truth, and his backstory in Killing Joke is the correct one (at least as far as in-this-one-comic canon goes). Otherwise the comic itself would support this assertion by showing contradictions or mutually exclusive elements in the story presented in flashbacks, proof that he remembers it differently each time. Alan Moore would've absolutely done that in a subtle way if that had been his intention.
@@ramonoski I agree and I like to think of that backstory as his true origin. However, it should still remain ambiguous. It should never be proven true like the Three Jokers story tried to do.
@@ramonoski He can tell himself whatever he wants, he's crazy! The parallel story in The Killing Joke is just that, a flashback story the graphic novel is telling us, not a story Joker is telling us with his unreliable narrator bullshit. He's probably embarrassed that he was a loser who should have gotten his job at ACE back after failing at his midlife crisis attempt at standup comedy. His wife should have told him to start flipping burgers at the Gotham Grill or she was gonna leave him. This is why I will always prefer Jack Napier.
I hated this whole story, but the thing I hate the most is Jason’s note to Barbara at the end. “I’ll go to therapy if you date me. I’ll even stop being Red Hood.” Nice way to put all the pressure of your mental health recovery on her. Glad it was swept away 😂
When I was listening to Comicstorian's reading of the comic (God bless his soul) I was so confused when he reads the part with Barb and Jason like ....
"I'm listening to the comic about Joker right?"
This ship is so out of no where
So I gave up when Dark Knights Metal was a thing, Barbara was a combo meal for a Robin again?
Bruh, eww, I thought she and Dick were a thing.
That's such an incel comment from Jason fr.
that was such a completely out of nowhere pairing that added nothing to the story
I do like the idea that Joker is truly just a rotten person, even before the acid. Batman knowing he is makes sense to, he is the world’s greatest detective
Honestly I feel like Joker makes the most sense as just a massive narcissist. Still mentally unwell, but not the full blown comic book crazy he's normally painted as. The acid didn't destroy his mind along with his body, it just warped his perception of himself and gave him license to indulge in his worst impulses.
My wish fulfillment version of him has always been that of a stereotypical internet troll, just way more off the cuff. Deeply unhappy and only capable of feeling any excitement unless causing another person harm in some way. While in turn shielding themselves through an ironic detachment from their own emotions.
Do the worlds greatest detective mean anything.
@@nathanl8622I don’t think the Joker ever forgot who he was, he just chose to ignore the reality of him being a huge dick in favor of portraying himself as the victim
@@nathanl8622 People like to pretend killers and monstrous people are different by separating them from humanity and putting them in categories they make up based on misunderstood psychological terms
Even in the comics its ambiguous if he would actually be considered "crazy", interesting stuff
Another dumb thing with the 3 jokers book is why would batman ask the chair the jokers name if he already knew it after the first week?
He asked for the same reason he asked who killed his parents, to check if the chair really knew everything.
It was only when the chair told him that there were 3 that he was surprised, maybe he expected only the name he knew.
It's also weird hoe the chair baaically refused orders. Bruce didn't ask "How many Jokers are there?", he asked "What's the Joker's true name?" Answering that question with "There are three Jokers" just... ignores the question?
An actual answer would say "There are three Jokers, named X, Y and Z." Anything short of that doesn't answer the question Bruce asked lmfao.
@@reaperz5677sure but that's a flaw on the reasoning or writing of the chair, Batman asking is becuase he already knows.. And how wouldn't he.. It's the same reason it's not a big deal when batman's identity is ever revealed to the joker.. He either already knows or doesn't care.. Wether or not they know each other's true identify doesn't change the battle between Batman and Joker
Batman being hyper perfect will always be dumb and not canon for most stories
@@reaperz5677no because there are 3 Jokers hence 3 names so it was basically asking which one?
So my hot take is that canonizing the Joker's backstory from The Killing Joke does not in fact go against the entire point of the comic and in fact reinforces it.
See. The way I've always read The Killing Joke is that the picture it paints of The Joker is that of a man desperate for an external validation for his life of cruelty. He's absolutely desperate to prove to himself and to the one person who gives him the time of day that secretly everyone is like him deep down, because he's absolutely terrified of the alternative. Absolutely terrified of ever acknowledging that maybe he's in the wrong, that maybe it's him that's broken and not the world. That's even the whole deal with his multiple choice origin nonsense. It is explicitly, textually nonsense. Throughout the comic we are explicitly shown his origin story. He just lies to himself and says he doesn't remember it because he doesn't want to. Because as Batman straight up says to him in the comic itself, "Maybe ordinary people dont always crack. Maybe there isnt a need to crawl under a rock with all the other slimy things when trouble hits. Maybe it was just you, all the time."
Thats why we're explicitly shown his backstory. Its an intentional contrast to the words coming out of his mouth.
That's my two cents anyways.
The Joker doesn't need three personalities. He's an agent of chaos. One day he can throw a pie in the mayors face, and the next, he can blow up a hospital. He does what he finds funny. Sometimes that's catastrophic. Sometimes it's just inconvenient.
The Comedian is an agent of chaos. The Criminal & the Clown aren’t agents of chaos.
@ShockwaveFPSStudios You are not thinking of chaos the correct way. It's inherently chaotic that he throws pies and robs banks sometimes. You are looking at chaos as the goal, and not the action. It's not. Well, not always, as an inherently chaotic person would not have consistent goals.
Fr. Like how in Batman's birthday (idk how he found out his bday but whatever) he always does crazy schemes like, planting bombs in a building, planting bombs on a child, etc. But one day he decides to do nothing just to F with Batman as he tries to find out what Joker is planning before it happens
they should went the Batman Beyond route, when Joker die he basically respawn in someone else body he prep in advance,but because of how human work they will be slightly different
so 3 Joker just mean he died twice so there's 3 slightly different Joker
@@dragonblast417 I think he just picked a random day of the year. I don't think it was his actual birthday.
Hearing Linkara go Joker gave me whiplash, thought I clicked a different video for a sec lol
For real lol
THAT'S LINKARA?
He’s great
He does a pretty good Mark Hammil impression
The Light Bringer??
The problem with giving Joker a backstory isn't that it undoes his character in any meaningful sense imo, but just that he's a character different artists have taken in wildly different directions and so it's kind of impossible to go back and give him an origin story that works as a lead-in to all those different takes. Making him literally multiple different people is a cute meta approach to the question, but as an actual explanation it's just asinine.
I agree, but I actually prefer the idea of us never actually knowing his backstory/origins. He is a lot more ominous and interesting when we don't know why he is so mad. Was he born like that? Did something major happen that broke him? Was it a bunch of little things? It's more enjoyable to me if he is just a mad man whose motivations we can't even being to understand/predict. Feeds into that unpredictability
Man, Linkara makes a good Jonkler.
The issue with Zdarsky's versions of the origin is that it still doesn't quite fit with the Mobius Chair's request for clarification on which Joker's identity Bruce wanted to know.
If the three Jokers are weird quantum multiverse anomaly duplicates of one guy and then two of them were immediately killed, then they all share the same true identity and that there was three of them for about five minutes is a weird blip and not a mystery at all. There's one Joker with one real origin, and the Chair should be able to answer.
If the three Jokers are three distinct personalities within the same man, two of whom were created within Joker's mind via training from Capito, then the question still only has one answer. There's one true identity, and the other two don't _have_ true identities, they're just different bits of the same dude's brain.
Jonkler
Who would make a good Officer Balls then?
Ham Aslume
This is what the JOKER franchise should have been. Each film could have been a different Joker that existed.
JOKER 2 should have been William Dafoe’s criminal Joker in early 90s with the colorful/Gordon gecko suits (American psycho) 😀
That would've been WAY better
@ William Dafoe should have had been with Harley Quinn. And maybe …
JOK3R could have had Punchline with a different Joker 😊
This would have required Phillips to show bit more interest in the comics which he just wasn't willing to do ig.
@@laverdadescatolica5 punchline with the guy from th eroom as the joker
@@thebadger622
Dafoe really would have given it 110%
NWH proved he knows how to show us someone who fights like he doesn't *care* about being hurt.
Personally, I just say the Three Jokers should have pretty much stayed being an evolution of the character to adapt to the presence of Batman in Gotham, three eras of the same character so distinct from each other that you swear that they have to be three different people:
The Criminal being a mob boss that's more dangerous than Carmine Falcone, Black Mask or Sal Maroni, who has grown bored of dealing with the GCPD and sees Batman as a new, more interesting challenge that brings a smile back to his face.
The Clown being the next stage in the Joker's fixation on Batman, spending his time coming up with wild life-threatening "pranks" to try and push Batman to the limits of his no-kill rule, proving all it takes is "one bad day" to become just like him.
And the Comedian being the Joker at his breaking point as he fully embraces his craving to watch the world burn just for laughs, whilst Batman tries to stop him yet never accepts that maybe killing the Joker would be the best option for the sake of everyone, since he's become that dangerous.
Three Jokers for three stages in his life that revolve around his growing obsession with Batman, each becoming more and more dangerous and unhinged as the years go by - it might not be perfect for a comic book that needs to keep being sold forever, but it's just how I feel it would work best.
Joker manipulating Batman into forgiving his parents' killer and moving past his childhood trauma just so that he'd be the biggest problem in his life is some real Joker level pettiness.
"No, I"M the worst thing to ever happen to you!"
Meanwhile Reverse Flash is right over there actively using time travel shenanigans to actively make Barry's life miserable in every way.
@@FurnaxIkki "Remember that time you got an B+ on your report card in 3rd grade? It was ME Barry..."
I honestly think it's dumb as fuck. Why would the joker make batmans life slightly better to make him worse by default. He wouldn't do this, he would simply do something worse in order to top Joe Chill.
"There's not just one Joker, but instead three. And funnily enough, when DC finally gave us an explanation, there's not one, there's three. So I guess that's nine Jokers in total. How exactly does that work?"
Yeah, how exactly does that work? Your math doesn't math. 1x3=3, not 9.
Yeah, that really confused me to. The only thing I can think he meant was maybe the fact that they gave two separate explanations, the 3 physical Jokers and then replacing that explanation with the 3 personalities. But even that is 6 Jokers, not 9.
There's three explanations. The three physical guys, the shit with Halliday, and then the most recent one. So that's nine Jokers.
I miss the times when Joker was just a guy.
Same. I hate all these stories that try to treat the Joker like he's so fucking deep and give him cosmic importance. It feels like rewarding a mass shooter with the media attention he craves, like the Joker *wants* us to treat him like he's so deep and important and the writers started believing his hype.
I agree and disagree.
I don't have a problem with presenting him profoundly/as a deep character. He's deep in Killing Joke, and I love that comic to bits BECAUSE of that. But he was also just a guy in that story.
I do have a problem with how he's written as NOT ONLY being obsessed about Batman, but being obsessed about BEING OBSESSED about Batman. To use Johnn's writing in "The Three Jokers" as an example, The Comedian kills the other three Jokers and does the whole Joe Chill-plot because he wants Batman to only focus on him.
Joker having an obsession with Batman can work fine if done well, but going this overboard with this character trait flattens the Jokers character, making him annoying and boring, and worst of all, strays away from what makes him compelling. He's a murder clown.
I don't inherently have a problem with him being presented as a superhuman death god. But I prefer when those interpretations are few and far between, to spice things up every now and then, and told with intention. I also don't really have a problem with alluding to him being a millenias old demon, if it's left ambigous. Maybe he is? Maybe he isn't????? That sorta stuff can be fun if executed well.
There are many things that annoy me about this whole "Three Jokers" deal, but the main one that absolutely grinds my gears is how the story tries to tie up stuff like the New Gods and multiverses to the Joker. No, stop that. The entire deal of the Joker's story with Batman is that they're just two physically exceptional but still relatively normal people going at each other, and Joker's backstory remaining an unsolved mystery is not just key to the character's appeal but also makes it poignant to Batman's career as a detective. That's the one mystery he'll never solve and it's important it remains that way.
This sort of thing that modern writers don't seem to understand. Yes, street level characters like Batman and Spider-Man are part of a larger universe and they will eventually face larger, completely out-of-whack adversaries and events, but that doesn't mean you have to make it a constant part of their personal life. They've basically completely ruined Spider-Man's appeal by turning him into a multiversal hero and they're trying to do this shit with Batman too. And don't even mention that time they made the freaking Punisher a freaking angel. Stop it. You have other heroes to do this kind of thing with. Leave the street-level heroes to do what they do best.
I never understood the significance of the Joker having different iterations throughout the years. Because that is basically the case for every single comic book character. So I don't get why it supposedly needs to be explained in this story
Just a little correction: Killing Joke was always meant to be canon.
Just go and read Barbara Kesel's interview (she's the writer of the 1988's Batgirl Special) where she says that she literally was given the job to retire Batgirl because of a future big project they had ahead.
For those of you that still don't believe it just read "A Death in The Family" which is still considered canon: in Joker's first appearance in "A Death in The Family" he comments on the fact that the policemen seems particularly angry at him this time and one of his henchmen says that this has probably to do with what Joker has done to Gordon's daughter and he explicitly mentions that he made her a cripple.
So no, Killing Joke was always meant to be canon.
P.S. One of the most stupid things i haven't seen mentioned is that the Moebius' chair gives Batman the possibility to asks only 2 questions and the chair will respond to both of them.
Batman asks about his parents' killer name despite the fact he knew that it was Joe Chill and he asked about the real name of the Joker when apparently he knew it sence the beginning (due to the Three Jokers' finale).
So Batman had the possibility to ask an all-powerful IKEA piece the solution about ANY human problem or question like how to solve world's hunger or why do we live JUST to ask for 2 confirmations.
Ludicrous
Please read the new pinned comment since I can't spend my day replying to this same thing over and over again.
What can you say, he is the greatest detective on Earth.
3 Jokers? I sure hope they do
Nah, Todd Philips won't get the chance to ruin him a third time.
3 Jokers? I hardly know her!
@@somerandolad not about those movies it was an intentionally nonsensical joke
I'm personally a fan of Gotham's take on this general concept, with the first 'Joker' using a contingency plan to turn his brother into the more classic version
I like the idea of the Three Jokers as well, and I think the three of them should’ve been the identities of the Joker in other Batman media outside of the comics. Like have Jack Napier White be the Criminal because Jack White’s the traditional Joker, Arthur Flick could be the Clown since he lives in a society where he’s treated as a clown, and then John Doe could be the Comedian due to him getting mad at Riddler for being rude towards his punchlines.
The multiverse is all you need to have multiple Jokers, this retcon wasn't necessary outside of marketing
I bought the 3 Jokers graphic novel but I don’t read many DC comics, I just thought it sounded cool. I didn’t realize this was meant to be canon, but I’ll just treat it as an elseworlds story
What Geoff Johns will never understand is that serialized comic book writing is a collective work. Each author adds a piece of the puzzle and what's left at the end is a creative frankenstein, confusing, yes, but absolutely unique. The first time I noticed it was when Superboy suddenly had another origin, one that transformed him into the lowest common multiple of origins: he was a clone of Superman and Lex Luthor. That kind of writer's God complex then spread to Power Girl (it's not fashion, it's that she doesn't know what symbol to use), Hal Jordan (he didn't have gray hair, it was a virus from space), then to Flash, in the New 52 it spread over the entire DC Universe and in recent years its tentacles reached even the bible of superheroes: Watchmen. Johns believes he is such a good writer that his job is to correct the work of the hundreds of writers who came before him. This bizarre reconstruction of the Jokers is part of the same. As his failed film experience shows, his thing is not creation, but recreation. I'd be surprised if his next step isn't to do the same with the Marvel Universe, he certainly has nothing left to destroy in DC.
I actually have a fan-made earth that I redesigned a crap ton of DC characters, and one of my personal changes was to make Joker a symbiote like venom in order to explain the completely different versions of Joker over time
Or....
Joker is crazy and his personality can change like the seasons of a year.
Honestly the idea that different eras of the joker teaming up kinda neat. It shows that the character is more than one type of insane.
Fixating on why the Joker is inconsistent is a ludicrous thing because nearly every DC character has been written to be inconsistent due to how long they've been around. With the Joker there's the least reason to analyze it.
I hate it when comic book writers get hung up on characters not being 100% consistent throughout their ~70 years of history. Joker is different at different times because he is written by different writers. You don't have to come up with some convoluted lore explaining the reason.
I’ve always loved the idea of joker just being bored sometimes and as a consequence is either a way bigger threat or completely juvenile in his actions.The war of jokes and riddles was a great story that fleshed out a different arc in jokers life
Say what you will about the story, but the art in this book is absolutely AMAZING. Some of my favourite art in a comic book ever, it's arguably Jason Fabok's best work.
It is kinda dumb. "The Worlds Greatest Detective" couldn't figure it out for years? Really?
Joker having three personalities is definitely one the better interpretations, it adds to his madness while also making him scarier since you don’t know which one you’re dealing with and explains how his different schemes can change in severity.
I actually love the idea of Joker learning from the person who trained Batman. It just makes sense how he’s always a step ahead.
Side note: if you did that Joker impression in your video. Hats off it was amazing!
Actually, that was Linkara
I thought Chip’s retcon with Captio and the backup personalities was such a clever way to salvage the ridiculousness of the Three Jokers
I was really annoyed with Geoff Johns' The Three Jokers comic because it trivialized all the things I liked about the Joker. But you have to admit, the art is really impressive
Speaking of abandoned storylines, apparently at one point (pre-New 52 era), Batman was supposed to have known more info about Dick Grayson’s parents, but that plot thread was never followed up on!
I feel like The Joker is a very easy character to get right, so it's weird that writers keep dropping the ball on him so consistently.
A correction, but much of what we associate with "Silver Age Joker" actually predates the Comic's Code Authority, and were just general pushes from editorial to lighten Batman up. The story giving the "chemical bath" origin for example was 1951.
tbh the idea of Batman forgiving Joe Chill on his deathbed is an *_excellent_* idea.
Based Super Lesbian rpg fan
@@CursedShinobiClown what?
5:15 Heh cool that’s a cool voice kinda sounds like Mark Hamils take
5:22 Wait a minute I know that laugh that Linkara. Thats sick I love both your channels to death.
5:15 was- was that linkara as Joker? Man he's really good
Yeah, he's done the Hamill impression in his reviews for years. You can clearly tell he gets a kick out of it whenever the character shows up.
7:50 I think this sums up my biggest problem with the three jokers, it doesn’t do anything gutsy and because it tries to perfectly fit into continuity, everything returns to a status quo. If the book is mon canon then it does nothing unique or interesting, If the book is canon then it has barely any impact on the batman mythos
This video touches on so many things that keep me from being able to enjoy these comics. There are SO many different timelines and alternate versions of every character, you can never know which timeline you're in, or what happened in the past of that particular story. And everything you read in that story might just be ignored by the next story. It's absolute chaos.
I'm so frigging bored with all these retcons and writers trying too hard to make some kind of mark on the character. It's like everyone's busting their balls to achieve the legend status of guys like Moore and Miller while not realizing how obvious it is what they're doing, thinking they'll be sitting in interviews and play it all cool like "yeah, I changed the character forever, whaddaya know, just another day at work for me".
And this is the most obvious with the character of The Joker, writer's constantly trying to outdo one another in coming up with weird shit.
"I know, he cuts his face off!"
"Nah, nah, check this out! There were THREE of him along?"
"That's nothing! I make the great reveal that he's an incarnation of a serial killing demon!"
"Ha! Rookie level stuff! BEHOLD! I'M MAKING HIM THE HOLDER OF THE FORBIDDEN SPIGOT OF THE ANCIENT, TEN-GEAR WANKING MACHINE, THE ONE THAT WILL THROW THE UNIVERSE INTO ETERNAL, NIHILISTIC DARKNESS!"
Just stop and focus on a good story instead of these pretentious efforts to be groundbreaking.
I’ll be honest, I never really bought into the whole ambiguous backstory thing because everything in Killing Joke except for that one line points towards the tragic backstory being the clear definitive origin.
To me, the multiple choice line is more so about how Joker as a person rejects his history because he doesn’t want to be tethered to any single identity.
Yo, is that Linkara doing the Joker voice?! Finally we get to see you two collaborating!
Yes, it is!
I don't think I've noticed how good Linkara's Joker is before. Cool.
Plus the multiple personality angle has precedence from way back in Morrison's Arkham Asylum graphic novel.
A retcon on par with Xorn from X-Men.
Magneto: My twin brother?!
I prefer the supersanity explanation. Joker's motivations are beyond our comprehension because he is aware of things we are not. It's a simple way to explain his inconsistent character that has little impact on other characters and the greater lore.
I hate the idea of there being more than one. He’s not supposed to be ghost face from scream. Gotham and folie a deux both pulled this bs.
I remember thinking this would be so hyped up, it was really just fine
I'll be damned, guess great minds _do_ think alike. Even before watching I already was thinking "Someone so psychologically broken couldn't possibly have one consistent personality"
Kinda hilarious all this effort has been made over the years, when in canon all that would've sufficed is something like "Extreme and unique case of Dissociative Identity Disorder"
My headcanon on why the answer of three Jokers is probably because at some point in time, is because somehow, somewhere, sometime. The Joker was given the opportunity to rewrite history, and since he wanted to have a multiple choice backstory, he did exactly that. Messing up the time lime by adding 3 diverging explanations to who he is and why he became the Joker.
This is not only in character for him to do, but also a fitting explanation... There are three Jokers, because the Joker didn't want nosy people spoiling the fun.
I never noticed before how much Linkara's Joker voice has stuck in my mind. It tricked my brain into thinking you got one of the actual voice actors for a second.
It’s almost like the “mystery box” angle with The Joker is stupid.
Seriously, even Bill Finger gave him an origin. Why can’t Joker just be…a guy? Just some guy who used to work at a chemical plant who fell in and “went crazy” (despite the fact that The Joker is NOT ACTUALLY INSANE!).
Ok as a stand alone story i quite enjoy it aside from the jason/babs ship
As a part of the larger continuity it sucks
The complaint of 3 jokers running around never maid sense to me because when the reveal of that premise in full also ends up with there being one joker alive by the end of the book!! So the complaint about the retcon and everything is just really ridiculous to me😂😂
I think this was your funniest script, made thinking about the Three Jokers comic bearable
9:55 it's not ambiguous. It's not one in motion. It's literally 3. THREE. You know it's literally three, because they ask for a FOURTH. If he asked for another, that might be slightly ambiguous. But they literally ask for a 4th. There needs to be 3 already to get a 4th
It wouldn’t be out of line for Joker to have 3 personalities considering how sometimes he’s written to either be a criminal, a serial killer, or a bombastic villain. Heck, Joker’s quote “If I’m to have a past, I prefer it to be multiple choice” can still work because his split personalities would twist his perspective on what really happened to him and how doctors can’t seem to figure him out.
The sad part is I was always ready to put "Bruce Wayne holds Joe Chill's hand" as one of the iconic moments of Batman's history.
The biggest problem I’ve had with 3 jokers is: they treat creating a new Joker as a formula and that ruins what makes the character unique.
Arkham Knight made the same mistake with the “joker disease” plot. It’s become a formula on how not to write Joker at this point.
“One bad day is enough to turn the sanest man alive into lunacy”does not mean every sane man who has a bad day turns into the joker.
Hey Comic Drake! I remember ur old video on the Megaman timeline when that first came out. That was a while ago 😅
YES! I have been waiting for a crossover between Linkara and Comic Drake forever!
I love how you Got Linkara to voice the Joker!
Did not expect Linkara, but love that he’s here.
I really enjoyed this comic. I feel it resolves a lot of loose threads in under the red hood, killing joke, death of the family, zero year. Red hood one acted a lot like joker, but also so did the comedian. There's room for multiple origins i feel.i wish wed get stories wrapped up nicely before a reboot.
We really need a run that explains all this forreal! Lol great videoooo
I am pretty sure I remember Film Theory/MatPat doing a video on who they believed the three joker's were years ago. He concluded that it likely symbolized the three different eras of the joker (golden, silver, and bronze ages). It kinda sounds like the writers just backed themselves into a corner, saw that video, and went, "whatever, let's just do that."
In my opinion, the only bad thing about the Three Jokers story, is the reveal about Batman knowing his identity and about Jokers family at the end. But otherwise I really like the book. I find the story interesting, the ''final'' scene in the police car between Batman and Joker (i think) is quite cool and also that Jason Fabok art is so good. Also (and i'm probably gonna get hate for this but) as someone who likes Nightwing with Starfire more, I kinda dig the Batgirl x Red Hood paring so the moments between them in the book I found quite interesting. That's my opinion on the Three Jokers story.
Also, very well done video Mr. Drake 👍
Maybe next time could be a video about another DC Crisis, or any interesting event in DC or Marvel, pretty please? 😅😁
I think the three physical Jokers concept works depending on the continuity. For example, the Wold Newton Crossover Universe has its own unique take on the Batman lore wherein the Caped Crusader is actually a mantle passed down to various heirs - like Bruce Wayne is the Batman of the Golden Age, the original Dick Greyson becomes the Batman of the ‘60s TV series (which fictionalizes him as the original Bruce Wayne), then Bruce Wayne Jr. becomes the Batman of the 70s-80s, then Azrael becomes the Batman of the ‘90s, etc. So within that context, having three Jokers representing different eras and portrayals makes a lot more sense.
First, great video as always. You make great content.
Second, while watching this video I realized that I hate almost every Batman story since 2011.
The New 52 sucked. Snyder's Joker as a possible God, sucked. Death OF The Family sucked. Morrison's run on Batman sucked. 3 Jokers sucked. Zdarsky's follow-up sucked. Everything to do with the Failsafe story arc sucks. Everything to do with Dark Knights Death Metal or whatever the hell it was called, and The Batman Who Laughs... SUCKS.
Man...
I've liked bits and pieces of some storylines, like Batman: Earth One, and "Zero Year"...
But...
But most of Batman for the last 13 years has been trash.
Paul Dini's run wasn't bad at least but i agree.
It makes me laugh so hard that of all the Batman villains that could fake their deaths to activate some bogus storyline Penguin was the one chosen.
Penguin faked his death in the Brave and the Bold depicting Joker as his killer and putting Batman on his trail.
Penguin faked his death back when he worked with Mortimer Kadaver to gain the upper hand against the Ventriloquist and Scarface back when Alan Grant wrote the Batman book.
Penguin even got "almost" killed recently because of Jason Todd.
If i was Bruce i would have put a condition in Failsafe's program for which if the guy killed was Penguin it didn't need to activate because surely it was a bluff 😂
@niccoloproia3678 if anything at the very least, his failsafe needed a failsafe
The problem is Geoff Johns simply has to have every version of every character alive and co-existing at the same time. Most of his stories are about reviving old characters.
Thanks for the video! Glad to know I'm not the only one following Zdarsky's Batman run because of how bonkers it is. Also, that's a slick suit you wore!
I liked the idea of 3 Jokers, and I liked the psychological pain it could give to each of Batman's sidekicks. It would have been better if Batman didn't know the one surviving Joker's identity. As it really undercuts the whole asking the morbius chair the identity of the Joker and the mystique of the character.
I also liked that this was about getting Batman to move on from Joe Chill. I really think this could have worked as a concept and it's a shame it fell short.
I do like the idea of three Jokers in the sense of 3 types of personalities, and even if there happened to be 3 plausible different origins. The idea of him staying a Schroedinger's cat that can not actually be observed.
He would stay a mystery that Bruce could almost be convinced that maybe there are 3 people, but the evidence also says that it is impossible. Whenever someone would get close to finding an answer, a big contradiction would always pop up. He could even be cosmic, but as soon as that is believed, a new piece of evidence would contradict it. In a meta sense that not even Bat-Mite can overcome, he stays a mystery. Any attempt to actually solve the Joker is impossible.
I’m not gonna lie- I kind of really like Batman knowing who Joker is. It takes away the Joker’s power. He’s not some “all powerful, mysterious, evil deity”-he’s a jerk who fell into some chemicals and became Gotham’s Bully. Just my take, though. Great Video as usual, Dude.
For me the concept of three Jokers is the official equivalent of the Vinesauce video, where he dubbed and edited episodes of the Super Mario cartoon, with the premise of Luigi being a doppelganger based on an animation error.
It just feels so weird how some writers try to rationalize inconsistensies of characters of characters, which were clearly the result of changing editorialship, times they were made in, writers and being in different continuities.
Your Joker is awesome! It's not just a parody of Mark Hamill, but goes his trails. I like it!
I knew that was Linkara’s Joker as soon as I heard it. Cool you got him on the vid.
I personally liked the idea on paper but the execution was so disappointing in my opinion
In Batman the mask of phantasm, before being an insane clown, the joker was a Mafia boss (or something like that, like a gangster or something idk I forgot lol)
He was a low-level Mafia grunt.
@ yea
Joker having a convoluted mess of origin stories irl is ironically on brand with his multiple choice origin.
1:41 off topic, but I love your Animal Crossing pants
Thank you! They're my favorite pair of pajama pants and I'm worried they won't last much longer since I've already repaired a few holes. 😭
It's kind of genius to have the multiple personalities be from training since it plays into the Joker actually being completely sane and aware of his actions. It sort of explains how he can go from poisoning the water supply to legally running an insurance agency to blowing up a building when there's no punchline. It adds to the chaos of not knowing the urgency of any Joker plot. Also, the Cold Death Joker not laughing is like if Spider-Man stops cracking jokes: absolutely terrifying. Imagine passing him in Arkham and he's just sitting there, staring. 😱
I knew that was Linkara, been listening to that man's Joker voice since the beginning of his TH-cam career
Concept wise, I like the idea of three jokers going around.
I will always love this book just for the art alone
My first interpretation of three jokers was that it was going to be a kind of fight club thing, with 3 separate but somewhat connected personalities, but they weren’t going to tell you who the original personality was or smth like that
Linkara killed that voice acting performance omg
Funny how Geoff Johns tried to make sequels to some of DC's most well known stories (ape-off if you will) but Three Jokers and Doomsday Clock landed as duds. The delays hindering them so much they can't even fit in continuity.
Also they can insist Joker not having an origin but... nah he has one its the acid did and Jack Napier. Like it or not but it's been absorbed by the fans and it being the to go to from multiple projects.
Honestly, a little surprised that we didn’t drive dive into the Man who stopped laughing where they once again had multiple jokers. However, that one I actually enjoyed a little more, I thought it was actually a pretty decent red Hood story
I got the three jokers graphic novel trade back thing. I hate to say it but it was really boring and hard to focus on. Idk why. Maybe cuz it ended up being a primarily Jason and Barbara focused story. Which I wasn’t opposed too but it just felt so disconnected from BATMAN cuz it was BATMAN that asked the question.
Jason and Barbara never gave the vibe to me that they even gave a shit about who he actually was. Only that they wanted him stopped. But idk maybe I missed something.
Edit: ALSO THE JASON AND BARBARA ROMANCE REALLY CAME OUT OF NOWHERE FOR ME.
I was surprised they didn't go with the three personalities to begin with because that was always my theory before The Three Jokers Comic came out. Wail, i still think the recent retcon is still kinda messy i'm glad they decided to go with that angle rather then there are literally three of him running around.
Da comicbook king is back baby he neva miss we're eating good today y'all
I never went anywhere. 😐
The way I'd retcon it is that it's the same dude but Batman beats him so bad on multiple occasions that he just gets amnesia. Wakes up and comes up with a new backstory for how he got the way he is and what Batman has to do with it.
Oh my god, you got Linkara in this. Now that’s what I call a crossover.