Currently the Flamer skill affects the Beam Laser's ramp down time by about 1.5s. probably not intended and is a consequence of them using the same mechanic.
Are you sure about that? Beam lasers take longer to ramp down the longer you use them in the red zone, but there doesn't seem to be any effective difference in either red or yellow zone time with Flamer Ventilation. Using a full bonus (-10% heat) Blood Asp A with max heat sinks after getting ECM, It's approximately 5 seconds red zone and 4.5 seconds yellow if you run four beam lasers right up to the start of the red line which was 44% heat on the map I was using. Running the lasers to max heat (technically 95-98%) resulted in roughly 8-9 seconds in the red and another 8-8.5 seconds of "ramp down" period. That was both with and without Flamer Ventilation.
Beam lasers seem to make you pay very close attention not just to the overall mech heat levels but especially to the beam laser weapon's heat levels. Similar to RACs except when the RAC gets into the RED, it just jams - when the beam laser gets into the RED, its overall heat output jumps way way up like super host heat. Bara, in the 2ns game near the end, you burned in hard with your beams and all four were full red and you stopped and said "I have to use a cool shot to get this guy" and I was screaming NO, your beam lasers are way too hot. Your cool shot dropped your overall all heat level to like 20% or lower but all four beam lasers were full RED and as soon as you shot them again, your overall mech heat spiked all the way up and you took so much heat damage. This seems to be how they keep the beam lasers from being too overpowered since they are constant heavy damage - if the weapon's heat level is in the RED, then it generates more heat and if at full RED, then it generates a huge heat spike and keeps generating a huge heat spike until you stop and let the weapon cool. It seems like with RACs, you need to watch the WEAPON's heat level and when they hit RED level, stop and back off to cool. OR start with all four for a few seconds to get the high damage, then switch to just two to let the other two cool down and then switch to the cooler two to let the original two cool down. Cool shots can actually be your death with beam lasers if you don't let the weapons cool down. Beam lasers require a bit more planning on shooting and then backing off for cooling - especially if fairly close range.
From the two games it seems that the weapon heat gauge will not drop until the mech is cold. And the weapons run on a common heat bar, so single firing doesn't help much. Am I Right?
The ghost heat only applies, in the initial fire. It does NOT keep applying when the beam continues. Only when you let go and fire again. Also if you want to split your fire to prevent ghost heat. You unfortunately have to pause lengthy, If you want to split fire. Pulsing and Chain firing is extremely way more detrimental to your heat then just firing all 4. You should of been using this mech the same way as you did on your Kodiak last video. It's more of a sniping health chiseler. You do NOT want to position your self behind enemy lines. Because your heat gives you to much down time, to be an effective Ambushers.
thing with beams is once you start shooting dont stop, you get an initial heat spike at first and it tapers off till they overheat...as you saw at the beginning of the second match, i also believe in the first match you team shot you in the back taking out half your mech
I'm really enjoying the beam lasers. My favorite vessel for them is the Highlander IIC with three of them and a UAC20 for backup. I also put 2 of them on the seraph with 2 LBX20 to grind through its battlepass. I kept getting Frozen classic, which is terrible for those low mounted ballistics, so the beam lasers did some serious work for me. 2 Beams and 2 UAC20 on the Supernova hero mech would probably be great as well.
in this setup, rampdown takes way longer than cooling down, even when not reaching red ramp - ditching half the beams and quite a few heatsinks for some cooler dps or burst damage is likely to work much better - like ... half a dozen clan magshots, i mean ap gauss :) (coolshots don't help because while still in red ramp, heat is crazy high again immediately)
i've been liking a lot of the new weapon systems. hope to see more vids with different new weapon builds. also looking for marauder II or Stalker builds
I love my build, I switched the omnipods around a little bit but I've got two beam lasers and a tag on my shoulder and 2 lrm twenties with Artemis in my arms, with ECM, people hardly know I'm there. I can direct Target locations and then start spamming missiles, I love the Yang quote :)
From what I've seen with other TH-camrs, the ghost heat seems to be triggered by when you start to shoot them, not by if they are still firing. So if you just add 2 beam lasers at a time, with about a half or three-quarters of a second or so between sets, you can avoid it. You basically gain heat management in exchange for having a ramp up to your full damage.
last night I threw two SB gauss rifles and two ERML on a catapult K2 with a light 250 and case on the side torsos, with 4.5 tons of ammo and stripped arm armor. It absolutely slaughters mechs.
Another heavy mech that's great with double SBG is Warhammer WHM-6R with 2xSBGR, 4xERML, LE270, 4 tons of SBG ammo, and a CASE on each side torso just in case (no pun intended :D)
4 beam lasers can cook a cockpit in like, 2 seconds edit: At most! You can also group fire 6 beam lasers if u fire three and then three with a half second after you start the first three. You lose a little burst damage, but you avoid the massive heat spike.
The problem with Beam lasers is the long delay before they start ramping down. This long delay makes sense for flamers since they generate little heat while in the yellow and have the potential to stun lock an enemy mech by overheating them. Beam lasers generates 3 heat/sec and only deal damage so there's no reason to have such a draconian ramp-down delay on them. As long as the ramp-down delay remains 5s+ there's no reason to ever mount more than 2 beam lasers, you need other weapons that can pick up their slack once they go red.
@Baradul Shoot one set of beams for a second before cutting in your second set, it helps with the phantom heat. When you get hot, just tap the fire button: tap, tap, tap. I am not good with assault mechs, but I really want to give this a try!
tap tap tap doesn't do much because those fractions of a second only do that same fraction of 5 damage - one small laser would have more dps than 4 beams (but if it's a cherry red enemy and a desperate situation and you lack a small laser,.... sure, tap away)
In the Tabletop Game Battletech it makes Heat if you get an Engine Hit (+5 Heat). So if you loose a Side-Torso you loose 2 Clan XL Engine (+10 Heat). Could be that`s the Reason you got such a high heat peak and shutted down.
Well, thats what it represents, but its really very much more heat. The heat accumulated gets heat on top and at the same time maxiumum heat capacity takes a big hit. Dunno how much but its way more than in tabletop. A... hated mechanic. ;D
it almost looks like you would have had more with missiles and two beam leasers, MRM's or LRM's? or possible some kind of pulse laser making you alpha strike mid way to the beam laser's full range?
So ghost heat during all of the fireing not only at the start? They need ghostheat in some way other than just getting hotter than Terra Therma after a good while ;)
I'm very worried the idiots from the cauldron are gonna add ghost heat to them but they're gonna leave the shared ramp bar, so these things will basically be forced to only 2 per mech because there will be no reason or way to use more than a pair without exploding like a nuclear bomb.
Chain fire the Beam Lasers and as each one goes close into the red stop firing it and let it cool off for sustained output. Only let them go into the red when you need to push for a kill and have low heat on you mech. Afterward you need to let the Beam Lasers cool off out of the red, which can take some time depending on how long you pushed them. Otherwise you'll keep getting massive heat spikes and shutdowns or internal damage and your sustain damage output will be significantly reduced.
So the heat spike beginning of 2nd game was bc he staggered them too fast right? Like I know you can avoid the spike by staggering as in shoot 2 wait .5 sec and start shooting 2nd group of 2 so then all 4 are firing.. so I'm guessing the reason it didn't work was he didn't stagger the shots long enough?
Baradul: More, MORE!
Me: Easy there, Kylo.
Currently the Flamer skill affects the Beam Laser's ramp down time by about 1.5s. probably not intended and is a consequence of them using the same mechanic.
I thought the Cooldown affected it since its really not stated anyware. Only tested them so no harm done, just frustrating ^_^
I was going to ask this exactly.
Are you sure about that? Beam lasers take longer to ramp down the longer you use them in the red zone, but there doesn't seem to be any effective difference in either red or yellow zone time with Flamer Ventilation. Using a full bonus (-10% heat) Blood Asp A with max heat sinks after getting ECM, It's approximately 5 seconds red zone and 4.5 seconds yellow if you run four beam lasers right up to the start of the red line which was 44% heat on the map I was using. Running the lasers to max heat (technically 95-98%) resulted in roughly 8-9 seconds in the red and another 8-8.5 seconds of "ramp down" period. That was both with and without Flamer Ventilation.
Beam lasers seem to make you pay very close attention not just to the overall mech heat levels but especially to the beam laser weapon's heat levels. Similar to RACs except when the RAC gets into the RED, it just jams - when the beam laser gets into the RED, its overall heat output jumps way way up like super host heat.
Bara, in the 2ns game near the end, you burned in hard with your beams and all four were full red and you stopped and said "I have to use a cool shot to get this guy" and I was screaming NO, your beam lasers are way too hot. Your cool shot dropped your overall all heat level to like 20% or lower but all four beam lasers were full RED and as soon as you shot them again, your overall mech heat spiked all the way up and you took so much heat damage.
This seems to be how they keep the beam lasers from being too overpowered since they are constant heavy damage - if the weapon's heat level is in the RED, then it generates more heat and if at full RED, then it generates a huge heat spike and keeps generating a huge heat spike until you stop and let the weapon cool.
It seems like with RACs, you need to watch the WEAPON's heat level and when they hit RED level, stop and back off to cool. OR start with all four for a few seconds to get the high damage, then switch to just two to let the other two cool down and then switch to the cooler two to let the original two cool down.
Cool shots can actually be your death with beam lasers if you don't let the weapons cool down.
Beam lasers require a bit more planning on shooting and then backing off for cooling - especially if fairly close range.
From the two games it seems that the weapon heat gauge will not drop until the mech is cold.
And the weapons run on a common heat bar, so single firing doesn't help much.
Am I Right?
@@mt4798 There's just a few second delay before the beam gauge goes down after being fired. Whether it's in the red or the yellow.
The ghost heat only applies, in the initial fire. It does NOT keep applying when the beam continues. Only when you let go and fire again. Also if you want to split your fire to prevent ghost heat. You unfortunately have to pause lengthy, If you want to split fire. Pulsing and Chain firing is extremely way more detrimental to your heat then just firing all 4.
You should of been using this mech the same way as you did on your Kodiak last video. It's more of a sniping health chiseler. You do NOT want to position your self behind enemy lines. Because your heat gives you to much down time, to be an effective Ambushers.
thing with beams is once you start shooting dont stop, you get an initial heat spike at first and it tapers off till they overheat...as you saw at the beginning of the second match, i also believe in the first match you team shot you in the back taking out half your mech
I'm really enjoying the beam lasers. My favorite vessel for them is the Highlander IIC with three of them and a UAC20 for backup.
I also put 2 of them on the seraph with 2 LBX20 to grind through its battlepass. I kept getting Frozen classic, which is terrible for those low mounted ballistics, so the beam lasers did some serious work for me. 2 Beams and 2 UAC20 on the Supernova hero mech would probably be great as well.
Same but swap the uac20 for a uac10 and 2 atm6's
in this setup, rampdown takes way longer than cooling down, even when not reaching red ramp - ditching half the beams and quite a few heatsinks for some cooler dps or burst damage is likely to work much better - like ... half a dozen clan magshots, i mean ap gauss :)
(coolshots don't help because while still in red ramp, heat is crazy high again immediately)
So many purple beams that first match.
i've been liking a lot of the new weapon systems. hope to see more vids with different new weapon builds. also looking for marauder II or Stalker builds
I love my build, I switched the omnipods around a little bit but I've got two beam lasers and a tag on my shoulder and 2 lrm twenties with Artemis in my arms, with ECM, people hardly know I'm there. I can direct Target locations and then start spamming missiles, I love the Yang quote :)
From what I've seen with other TH-camrs, the ghost heat seems to be triggered by when you start to shoot them, not by if they are still firing. So if you just add 2 beam lasers at a time, with about a half or three-quarters of a second or so between sets, you can avoid it. You basically gain heat management in exchange for having a ramp up to your full damage.
last night I threw two SB gauss rifles and two ERML on a catapult K2 with a light 250 and case on the side torsos, with 4.5 tons of ammo and stripped arm armor.
It absolutely slaughters mechs.
Another heavy mech that's great with double SBG is Warhammer WHM-6R with 2xSBGR, 4xERML, LE270, 4 tons of SBG ammo, and a CASE on each side torso just in case (no pun intended :D)
4 beam lasers can cook a cockpit in like, 2 seconds edit: At most! You can also group fire 6 beam lasers if u fire three and then three with a half second after you start the first three. You lose a little burst damage, but you avoid the massive heat spike.
Phasers set to stunning...!!
The problem with Beam lasers is the long delay before they start ramping down. This long delay makes sense for flamers since they generate little heat while in the yellow and have the potential to stun lock an enemy mech by overheating them. Beam lasers generates 3 heat/sec and only deal damage so there's no reason to have such a draconian ramp-down delay on them.
As long as the ramp-down delay remains 5s+ there's no reason to ever mount more than 2 beam lasers, you need other weapons that can pick up their slack once they go red.
I was having a lot of fun with a 4 Beam Laser + 1 LPL BAS build when those weapons first came out ... until they nerfed having more than 2 at once...
Tshirt idea:
Killed by Baradul.
Sorry, not sorry.
"You will always remember the day you took team damage from Baradul, but for him it was a Tuesday."
@Baradul Shoot one set of beams for a second before cutting in your second set, it helps with the phantom heat. When you get hot, just tap the fire button: tap, tap, tap.
I am not good with assault mechs, but I really want to give this a try!
tap tap tap doesn't do much because those fractions of a second only do that same fraction of 5 damage - one small laser would have more dps than 4 beams
(but if it's a cherry red enemy and a desperate situation and you lack a small laser,.... sure, tap away)
You didn't take the flamer ventilation nodes? They help with the ramp down.
That helps?? Good to know! Thanks for sharing!
In the Tabletop Game Battletech it makes Heat if you get an Engine Hit (+5 Heat). So if you loose a Side-Torso you loose 2 Clan XL Engine (+10 Heat). Could be that`s the Reason you got such a high heat peak and shutted down.
Well, thats what it represents, but its really very much more heat. The heat accumulated gets heat on top and at the same time maxiumum heat capacity takes a big hit. Dunno how much but its way more than in tabletop. A... hated mechanic. ;D
it almost looks like you would have had more with missiles and two beam leasers, MRM's or LRM's? or possible some kind of pulse laser making you alpha strike mid way to the beam laser's full range?
Woohoo for Sunday pew pew!
Beam Lasers are like RAC's without the cockpit shake?
Stagger the start of the beams to avoid ghost heat as it is at the moment, right? Or am I wrong?
You are correct, start the first pair of 2 beams wait .5 seconds and start the second pair and you avoid the huge ghost heat spike.
Yeah, but they are supposedly getting changed next patch to not do that anymore.
@@ithatoneninjai3676 Unfortunate. They are pretty much on par with LXPLs with the current exploit, they are going to be pretty sad after it's fixed.
So ghost heat during all of the fireing not only at the start? They need ghostheat in some way other than just getting hotter than Terra Therma after a good while ;)
I'm very worried the idiots from the cauldron are gonna add ghost heat to them but they're gonna leave the shared ramp bar, so these things will basically be forced to only 2 per mech because there will be no reason or way to use more than a pair without exploding like a nuclear bomb.
13:30 It looks like the ghost heat is only applying when initially firing
Chain fire the Beam Lasers and as each one goes close into the red stop firing it and let it cool off for sustained output. Only let them go into the red when you need to push for a kill and have low heat on you mech. Afterward you need to let the Beam Lasers cool off out of the red, which can take some time depending on how long you pushed them. Otherwise you'll keep getting massive heat spikes and shutdowns or internal damage and your sustain damage output will be significantly reduced.
If the beams all share a ramp group that seems like a bug to me. Also in general the weapons seems to suck.
What mechs would you recommend for beginners?
Love the hot pink lasers LOL
So the heat spike beginning of 2nd game was bc he staggered them too fast right? Like I know you can avoid the spike by staggering as in shoot 2 wait .5 sec and start shooting 2nd group of 2 so then all 4 are firing.. so I'm guessing the reason it didn't work was he didn't stagger the shots long enough?
I think they are op. Ttb did 1.5k with these. I expect 2k from him soon.
MechDB denotes that there are a number of bugs with Active Probes. Are they still out there?
singles for a larger heat soak
✌️
i want to see these used with binary laser cannons for when they are on cool down you can still shoot with the cannons
Binary Laser Cannons are inner sphere; beam lasers are clan tech. They can't be used together. Heavy Large Lasers, however, can be.
@@Artificer1911 well that sucks they wont let you be a pirate and commit tech heresy
Laser - Asp, mal was neues :-)
100%!!!on point!!!👉
Racs are too damn powerfull , cant see and get outdps like crazy
RAC are very easy to counter. Don't stand there and facetank them. Poking is the way to deal with them the easiest way.
i like 6 ERL build more than this.
This game is still alive? There arw new mechs?
Haha. Tickle stick