With an red dots and holographics optics, always two eyes. With pistol irons, one or two, depending on the situation. I wish I'd been able to find a way to illustrate how each looks with two eyes open in the photos, as that is a factor in how each of these performs.
@@tidypog3272 I had a strong feeling that's where you were headed. The size of the image offers you a bit of leeway with the dot, when shooting in awkward positions or tracking your target. The smaller the glass, the less grace you're offered. You'll be restricted in your relation to the optic. Ignoring field of view implies that you will always be perfectly behind the gun, shooting as you do at the range. While that would be ideal, I personally like to plan for less-than-ideal situations. Otherwise, every optic would be a tiny piece of glass with a red dot covering the entire tiny window. Using that logic, the Deltapoint Micro is the ideal red dot for all circumstances. Don't take my word for any of this -- experience this for yourself. Shooting around barricades and under cars can be much easier with an EOTech just behind the mag well than it is with a T2 on an AK gas tube rail. We can increse that aformentioned forgiveness by moving an optic with a large FOV closer to the shooter's eye. This keeps you from having to jam the dot to one side or the other in an awkward position, inducing more parallax. If the objective lens is tiny, and the optic is very far up on the gun, if there is parallax, you're going to find it. And you're also puttign yourself in a spot where you have to get behind the gun just right. Under pressure, we aren't always able to do that. This last bit is a bit less important. Some of us who are cross-eye-dominant are abnormally aware of the body of an optic, shooting with our non-dominant eye. Using a rifle many of us primarily shoot with this eye. A larger FOV helps me with this somewhat, and a few others I've talked to have said the same. You may or may not find that relevant or useful. Last of all, I'm not telling you that you ought to treat FOV as important in a red dot. You buy what you want, for whatever reasons you want. Rather, I'm offering this as a rebuttal to some of the points made in other videos. In some cases, for some people, the width of the image still matters. I'm going to pin this comment thread so that other people can find it.
I just started doing both open with my 1-6 n its cool af'ing hell. Your brain does that weird (what i call) the "middle picture" thing. Its just there n it gets easier until eventually its natural to not close your left eye.
Hey, do either of you have an opinion on the Sig Romeo 7? Say as an alternative to the Aimpoint pro? I'm looking for something for my duty carbine. I know Hop dropped it in a bucket of water 5 months ago, but haven't heard anything else yet. Happy New Year's!
Bought one as soon as they were released in 2015 just because I wanted something else to try besides the 4 or 5 aimpoints I had. Been on AKs and ARs. Still works, still use it, zero issues. I could care less what anyone else has to say. Especially trolls who buy Bushnell optics and hate on Trijicon.
I purchased an MRO to go in my main AR and I’ve been really pleased with it. I will say, the brightness leaves some to be desired, but this optic is satisfies every need I have for it. Even the gun store employee said, “read some reviews,” and I did. And I think there’s a lot of needless complaining about the MRO bc it’s not loaded with features. It’s simple, rugged, reliable, and will take a beating. That’s all you can really ask for.
I’ve been running the hell out of the MRO for the past 4 years and for 0-75 yard work ( which is how I use this specific optic) have had no problems with accuracy or function at all.👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
The MRO HD is the one to get. Clear glass and more features, it’s the MRO it should have been this whole time. But, the price point, just buy the T2 instead. Just my opinion.
A new gun penguin video? Christmas is early this year (even for us here where we celebrate mainly on the 24th XD). Happy belated winter solstice and other seasonal greetings from Germany :)
I bought my 1st MRO when it was fairly new to the market for $375 which included an American defense QD mount. I liked it so much I bought another about 4 months ago, again at a very competitive price. Are these the best money can buy? Maybe not, but IMO these are the best you can get at this price point. Nothing else comes close! Again this is just the opinion of someone that has 2-MRO's, 1-Acog W/the ACSS aurora reticle, 1-RMR, 1-Eotech XPS3, Trijicon tritium pistol sights, Trijicon AccuPoint TR-23 5-20x50mm Rifle Scope and a Swampfox LPVO which is also an excellent optic at it's price point. Each to their own but I like my MRO's. Great video by the way!
The first tube style red dot I ever looked through was a friend's MRO - I didn't really like it. Something was off and I couldn't figure out what. I had to shut one of my eyes to get a clear picture through the MRO, my brain couldn't columnate the two images - which is strange because I have no issues keeping both eyes open even when looking through scopes. I didn't realize that this was just an MRO thing, I thought all red dots were like that. It pushed me to buying Eotechs for a while, since it was the only other (non-scope) rifle optic I had ever looked through. It wasn't until I took a look through some other red dots that I realized that the MRO just sucked. I would much rather shoot with a $150 Sig Romeo 5 or HS403R - they do not have this issue. EDIT: I've got to say that the whole "if you suffer from blurriness when using an MRO, then it's not for you" thing is just ridiculous - there are ZERO other red dots on the market that have this issue. That's the whole reason people dog on the MRO. "That's the trade off for more FOV" which is meaningless with red dots because your other eye gives you all the FOV you need. Matter of fact, having a higher FOV is worse because more of your FOV is tinted and the bezel is larger.
I have a green MRO on a Scalarworks Leap mount...I love it! No tint..looks like I'm looking out a window. Dot color is exactly like a tennis ball, greenish yellow. Awesome on my 10.3" home defense pistol in my opinion 👍 I have not tried it with night vision, so I can't comment on that.
@@thegunpenguin mostly work, getting settled in the new apartment and trying to get my ass to the range and as many IPSC comps as possible before year end. I’ve certainly enjoyed running the ACRO P-2 and Modlite PL350 combo in on my G17 in Production Optics Light division.
I bought an MRO because of the price, looks, and weight. I couldn’t zero it with consistency much less shoot well with at at any range past 25 yards, I’m attributing it to the parallax and me apparently having an inconsistent shooting position I guess lol. Shots would be off inches. But I ve never had this problem with any other similar optics, I have an rmr, a bunch of holosuns, aimpoint t2 and have owned eotechs in the past. So I took the MRO back swapped it for an Aimpoint PRO, zeroed that in less than 5 min and couldn’t be happier. Maybe I just had a lemon, I really wanted to like the MRO, they are sexy and lighter than the PRO, but the example I had just didn’t perform well. Thanks for the great content!
Wow, a level headed review with a hint of dark comedy. Great work and looking forward to checking out some of your other content. My MRO should be arriving any day now.
I just picked up the MRO Patrol and really like it. Only comparisons I have are an Eotech 512 and Holosun green dot. It's better, in my opinion, than those two.
Totally agree. Just looked through a friends "crappy" but totally usable rmr and wondered why the mro gets so much hate while the rmr is the "industry standard." Kinda like the AK and Mini 14 accuracy. Both are 2-4 moa guns but the Mini 14 is "not accurate" while the AK is "combat effective." The gun community.....
I’ve got an MRO on a PWS MK111 and love it. I bought it with mount for $420 and it has been flawless on this platform. When shooting both eyes open the flared objective lens seems to mitigate that thick ring you get from the T2 or it’s Chinese doppelgängers. The brightness adjustments on the top end are more than suitable for outdoor use, bottom end is purely good for indoor dry fire. The biggest issue I see is performance under night vision. The amount and the stepping between settings leave a lot to be desired. Even with the larger objective lens the light transmission gained is not able to offset the shortcomings dot brightness. That being said, finding actual quality night vision performance out of a red dot regardless of price is damn near impossible. For a marginal difference and comfort level you are looking at twice the price for the T2 (and then of course you need your tall boi unity mount). In order to gain superior performance under Nods you would have to switch to the Eotech or the Romeo 8T which adds more than double the weight and some price. MRO is a solid optic choice as long as you know it’s limitations
"Spread genuine firsthand experience" Alright, you said it. Personally I lined up the MRO on the same rail as a Vortex UH-1 and Vortex Sparc Solar. The MRO has noticeably larger parallax even when accounting for the larger front lens. I'd switch the MRO in front of and behind other red dots and still notice the parallax even at the center 50% of the lens. Not much of an issue at 50 yards, but 200-300 yards shots would often result in missing 2/3 sized torso targets. But when explaining this online, people would just say I'm a bad shot, or that I don't know how to use a red dot. So I sold it, and somehow every red dot after has resulted in tighter groups on that same rifle. MRO didn't work for me, doesn't mean its not usable by others. I just don't think its right to discount all the criticism as internet nerds that have never used the MRO. Glad it works for you, but that's been my experience. Love the ACOG though, Trijicon nailed that.
Insead of edge distortion, I normally calls it the image shift, the greater it shifts within the sight, the more headache it generates. My MROs have it just enough to ruin the both eye aiming, at least for me. As for parallex, I tired moving the dot only within the center 50%--still have way more parallex than an average red dot...but they are only 20% larger arent they? I guess moving MRO backward does imporves the experience. I do enjoy having my MROs, they provided me some unique experiences...but they are just good toys to me.
20:58 sounds like the gun equivalent of the Boss Metal Zone distortion pedal, terrible at first glance but years of experimentation have revealed that it can actually work just fine if you use it in an unconventional manner
I love my MRO's had them on several rifles. I leave them on all the time and they have been flawless, great field of view and tough. I also keep mine further back to the rear.
Regardless of the MRO performance, your comedic performance was stellar. Love your sarcastic characterization of those who write comments you don't approve of, Bravo. The douchebag and the chinstrap penguin were hilarious. I'm still laughing, can't type, keep it up.
My MRO has the worst magnification out of a dozen optics I own. I hate it. I did check other at shops and they don't seem to be as bad as mine. So it sits in the safe... wasting away.
If one of mine was that out-of-spec, I wouldn't use it either. Though I haven't seen an MRO like that, I've seen a few optics from other manufacturers that slipped through QC and had so much zoom as to be virtually unusable. Trijicon has excellent customer service; there's a good chance they'll replace it for you. Let us know if they fix it!
This is the most sensible and least autistic comparison of all of these optics. I never understood the hate that the Mro got, but I also don’t understand why everyone has to suck the pole of the gun tube world to the extent that people do. The Mro has been pretty okay for me, and I like it about as much as any other red dot that I have at the same price point. Unless it’s some major issue where the optic fails, most of these red dots are exceptionally boring and are basically the same with little differences that will be up to your preference.
I've been rocking an mro on a rifle dynamics 501 on the ultimak for... 6 years I think. Only changed the battery once and it wasnd dead then. I have no issues. Having said that, my holosuns may have a sharper dot.
As far as all the bullshit these dudes cry about being wrong with the mro just makes them sound stupid to me. I have killed countless critters from daylight to midnight and never suffered from one of those issues. Tactical elitism = bullshit.
Yeah, it's hilarious. This stems from folks not actually using the shit they buy, I think. They spend time on the internet when they should be at the range, or in the field, shooting a delicious critter for dinner.
Mine has served me well. Had it on an AR for 4 years now. I have it on a qd mount and it’s always held zero when I switch between it & a Leopold 4-12. I really like the Sig Romeo optics. Great bang for the buck.
Watching this in December 2022 reminds me of the hate the new S650 mustang is getting . A few people read that it looks like the Camaro and the Sheep run with it .. A few people read someone's hate on the MRO and they run with it . What's my point , people suck . Go with your 2 must haves on optics (Especially red dots) and decide what's best you . Awesome vid !
I actually didn’t see any real problems from the 1-4 list with mine… I just really dislike that it won’t work with a magnifier for the cost. So it’s relegated to a home defense 300 blk. Decent (not great, but decent) optic if you never intend to use a magnifier with it. Although I’ve heard the HD remedies that.
Just started the video but what are your thoughts on the holosuns? Specifically the 510c? I like the eotech reticle, but 700 is too rich for my blood, so I got the holosun
You know, I haven't handled an MRO personally but I think that the MRO and the Eotech have a lot of similarities. Both offer best in class field of view with their giant panes of glass. However the MRO trades perfectly clear glass for being way lighter compared to the Eotech which is a hog. I think on paper I'd take the lack of parallax and distortion the eotech offers in exchange for battery life and weight. But I could see how someone might lean the other way.
Question to Mr Gunpenguin. Something I've been thinking about is. Could the MRO actually have superior parallax to other optics, but it seems worse because the wide FOV means the dot has a greater angle by which it can deviate from the center compared to other optics? To test this, you could compare it to an aimpoint or something. And move your head the same distance to the left or right of both optics and measure POI at a target a fixed distance away. For the Aimpoint suppose you move your head such that the dot is at the edge of the glass, but for the MRO the same distance puts the dot still far from the edge of the glass. That would be the fairest way to measure the Parallax.
3:20 into this video and the narration has continuously kept my attention the entire time. Came here from the diminutive practical actual economist, or is it the factual minimized tacticalist? Can’t ever remember the name of that channel, but digging it so far man, great work
BEST information on optics! I have been looking at “reviews” on various optics. Some are positive and some not. THIS video puts things in perspective that most reviewers miss. My only concern is that I don’t have experience with optics and want to attempt a purchase I will enjoy. If i want one optic for my HK SP5 for range fun & home security could this be where i spend my money? MRO? btw: You hit the nail on the head. It is all about trade-offs. Which combination of them will be best for you.
I have one of the "new" MROs. I always thought it was "ok" until I got into night vision. Now I don't use it because the image looking through it to be blurry under night vision. Yes, I know I could adjust my night vision to be in focus through the MRO but then everything is blurry when I'm not looking through the MRO.
After seeing those comments on mounting, I feel compelled to move my MRO to the rail on my gas block.... MAYBE I SHOULD MAKE A MUZZLE BRAKE AND MOUNT A RAIL ON THAT SO I CAN MOVE MY MRO AS FAR FORWARD AS POSSIBLE!!!! LOL
Thank you for stressing that different people have different requirements and will like different equipment. If you've ever used any of Leupold's optics, your opinion would be appreciated. They were recommended by an acquaintance with significant professional experience.
Thanks! I've used many Leupold products, but I've never owned any. To be frank, the ones I've tried weren't built to the highest standard, and often lacked features for the price, relative to models from other manufacturers. That said, I hear they've stepped up QC in the last two years or so, and their top-tier scopes are very nice. But generally, my personal preferences are for other optics. I'm just one guy, with one opinion, and your acquaintance will have far more insight. A second and third opinion would be warranted. Though, I've noticed that, as a generalization, professionals don't always know more than hobbyists. Folks who don't shoot for a living often have their fingers closer to the pulse of the industry. I hope that helps!
Looking at getting one for my AK with the Occam Defense handguard (unfortunately will need to mount it farther forward). Love Trijicon optics, I have a TR-24 and a TR-25. MRO seems like a quality bomb proof dot, and I actually prefer not having turret caps.
hmmm i got an MRO and have 0 issues with it for the last 2 years. I use it constantly and its lovely. Never knew there was hate thrown at it... well.. idk i love it. and ill keep using it
Consider when the MRO first landed it was the greatest threat to the Aimpoint T1. Also consider there’s a LOT of people on TH-cam and gun Forums have a financial interest or relationship connected to Aimpoint success, and less aimpoint competition. How many of those people have online shops that sell Aimpoint or get goodies from Aimpoint. Figure at least half of the detractors fall into this category. The other half are probably mostly mindless parrots or hanger-ons.
Great video, I’m stuck between the Exps 2 and the MRO for my 14.5 BCM. Been debating it for weeks before I buy. Honestly I have a Romeo 5 that has been perfect. Not one issue with it, there’s also torture test videos of the Romeo 5 that show it’s not a bad optic at all and can handle abuse. Is it worth the $500 upgrade to get another red dot? Can’t make my mind up.
I have been running the MRO for a few months now. All I'm going to say is personal opinion and experience. First off, I wanted to love it. But I'm not there yet nor think I will. That being said, I do like it. I dont see any tint. The ever so slight magnification is there but only noticeable if you focus on it or look for it. The brightness settings are not well balanced. I find myself using setting 4/5 for the most part. 1 thru 3 are so dim that they are unusable. At least to me. 6 is so bright it starbursts. If Trij balanced the settings better, this optic would be fkn epic. But its not. Again, I dont dislike it. Just dislike I use the same settings for all lighting conditions while the other few settings are just, dead weight. For a lack of better term. I dont have nods to test NV on it which, to what I have seen, its where it really sucks ass. Again, have not tested NV on the MRO myself. Its wide field of view is awesome however with any dot, just shoot with both eyes open, push my optic a tiny bit further up on the rail and boom, sweet spot! In a nutshell, its well built. Aesthetically pleasing. Sliiiight magnification not even enough to throw your shots off and barely even noticeable. Brightness settings are unbalanced. I'm still gathering data for my video on it. Nice video, man! Aight, I'm out!
Thanks! And I'm glad you're making an MRO video. We need more to balance the available info. I like your perspective. You don't love the MRO, but you don't think it's the worst either. As for the field of view, there's another argument to be made for why that matters. The wider the glass, the more forgiving the optic is when shooting in unorthodox positions, around barricades or under cars. You can also better track targets when you're moving (or when they're moving). Otherwise, we'd use optics that are a tiny eraser-sized piece of glass with a dot occupying the whole window, all the way at the end of the gun. Or we'd see the Deltapoint Micro as the best optic on planet Earth. There are other reasons as well, but that's the strongest argument. A tiny optic very far up on the gun is ideal at the range, but it relies on the idea that the shooter will have good technique, and will get behind the gun in an ideal position. Under duress, I'm just not sure I'm be able to make that happen every time. A bigger window, maybe one closer to my eye, builds in some forgiveness. In 2021/2022, I certainly hope everyone is shooting their red dots with both eyes open. I'm not saying that others should do what I do. Instead, I'm attempting to note that we shouldn't write off gear and techniques that fall outside of the ever-changing doctrine of the moment. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@thegunpenguin Very well laid out, my friend. Again, out of personal experience as I do own and use the MRO, I can notice myself transitioning faster so that 25mm objective lens does help. I have mine mounted not all the way back but not RELIGIOUSLY touching the handguard (that had me rollin! 🤣) that mid sweet spot works for me. I really enjoy my MRO. Forgot to mention the first one I bought came in with debris inside the tube. So had to get a replacement right away. I contacted trij about it and they made note of it. They said it was a "very rare occurace" or someone slipped up in their QC dept. What I like about the MRO outweighs what I dislike about it. I'll be talking about this in my video. In the meanwhile, you're video was awesome. Merry Christmas and Happy New hear. Remember, fellas... both eyes open.
Merry Christmas! Also, I get the impression that Trijicon's QC is slipping somewhat. I didn't mention this in the video because I haven't personally experienced it, and I only discuss what I've dealt with firsthand. But a few of my friends have received some suspicious optics that were made during the pandemic rush.
@@thegunpenguin Seems like it for sure. If you got IG, I could send you a pic of how I received my brand new MRO that had to be sent back immediately for a replacement. I think I had my 1st MRO for like 1hr. The new-new one is the one I have been runnin for a few months now.
@@DesertTactical I've got IG, but you don't need to send me a pic. I definitely believe you. Hopefully Trijicon will step the QC back up to where it was a few years ago.
I wasn't able to test that particular one. But I covered most everything else, with a few exceptions. Again, you won't necessarily agree, but it's there. Test the MRO for yourself. Ultimately, neither my video or his matters. Only your personal experience does.
I disagree. I address most of his points directly, barring a few that I either forgot or couldn't squeeze in. If you watch the video, I cover it. That said, you won't necessarily agree with my points. Instead, I encourage you to test the MRO yourself. Don't rely on me or Hop. Rely on you.
I have 3 of them (2 with the red dot and 1 with the green dot) and the only one I dislike is the green dot. Maybe it's my eyes, but it looks more yellowish than it does green. I don't hate it enough to get rid of it though.
I like my MRO but the slight magnification is a big issues with NODs, i dont have much of an issue with this on cheaper red dots like the sig romeo5. If you don’t have NODs then this review is truly incomplete. The eotech seems to be the best for NODs.
I hear the same internet hatred for the Trijicon ACOG. I think the vast majority of those people only had experience with the ACOG in video games. For me it's one of my go to optics especially the older ones that don't have the sunlight collector and has a cross type reticle rather than the chevron.
@@thegunpenguin I need to get around to buying one, I just can't justify dropping $900-1100 on one at the moment. I did get to play with them a lot in the army. I will say one problem that at least some had was they could lose their zero if dropped however I think it's more of a problem of the mount getting lose rather than the optic itself.
The MRO does suck but its a good red dot for durability outside of that I would just get a sig for 120 bucks. I've had 5 MRO's, 3 Aimpoint T1 and T2, Sig red dots, Vortex Razor, Eotech 512, 553, XPS series, Burris, Doctor and 3 RMR. Once you put MRO behind any 3x you will understand truly how bad the dot is. Now the new HD I'm hopeful.
The original MRO (dunno about the HD) looked exceptionally bad with my astigmatism compared to current Holosun, SIG, and Aimpoint red dots. If you've got an MRO and don't have that issue, enjoy having an American made red dot at a reasonable price.
thegunpenguin very much so, yes. Especially since I've heard breaking off the trigger guard tabs when driving roll pins is a serious concern, you might end up actually saving money by paying for that little bit of extra security up front.
The Aimpoint Pro is a great optic! It's very similar to the Aimpoint I had nearly two decades a go. My only complain is the weight. It's quite large and heavy, compared to the others I show in this video.
Thank god for this review. I saw the review a guy named hoopifile? Can’t remember his name. But he basically shit all over the MRO. And I have a T2, two comp m5s’s, and a comp m4, and I love my MRO…. So I was wondering if I a just a full blown idiot. (Probably am.) I just don’t have night vision yet, so idk if that’s it’s main real drawback. Seems like an amazing optic that I have loved for years.
I wish I heard all this hate for the MRO before I bought mine a year and a half ago. Suddenly, just a few months ago, I started hearing how terrible they were. Funny how none of these issues were mentioned in any of the reviews I watched when I was researching what optic to buy for my 11.5" BCM. Also funny how I haven't experienced any of the issues people like to bring up, but it's not like a run my shit very hard. 99% I'm just dry firing in my bedroom so what the fuck do I know compared to the plethora of flat range larpers who scour the internet looking for opportunities to insert their valuable opinions into random conversations? Maybe if I had nods I might feel differently. Apparently, that's where the MRO truly sucks butt.
TH-camrs with glossy slow-motion footage are the true thought-leaders of our community, and if they say to throw your MRO in the garbage, you do it. And then you fish it back out again next week if the garbage man hasn't come yet, when they say the MRO is excellent once more. That's just what we do. That's how the game is played. But seriously, an 11.5" BMC with an MRO is a damn fine setup that many would be lucky to have. I've got my eye on the Enhanced Lightweight 11.5".
@@thegunpenguin The ELW is what I have. Doesn't seem to like Wolf though. But that might have been a bad batch of ammo. Cases stuck in the chamber, more than 10 times in a couple hundred rounds (I stopped counting after a while). Next time I take it out I'll shoot brass. Before the stuck cases I had about 300 rounds through it, mix of brass and steel cased ammo. Seemed fine then. Which is why I'm inclined to blame the ammo this time.
I find the quality control is terrible. I first got a green dot. The dot itself was like a slash mark. returned it and got the red dot. the larger lens was screwed in crooked. I'll get another one and hope for the best. I'm a Trijicon fanboy even though they're generally overpriced. I think their RMRs are great but way overpriced. I have the EOTECH with the magnifier and it's very cool but like you say, it's very expensive and very heavy. I have and ACOG and while that guy is uber expensive, it's also the greatest optic they make. BTW, love the commentary. Good job.
The second hand market is always hot in the gun world. People need to buy stuff and try it out, or find someone that has something you want to test out. Get behind whatever it is. If it works for you and you can live with the cons, great! If you can't, sell it and move on.
The effects of astigmatism are so varied, it's hard to say. Most folks feel that the EOTech works best, but I know plenty of people, myself included, who can work with just about any optic, despite astigmatism. With red dots, I tend to see smearing, and no ill effects with holographic sights. Unfortunately, the short answer is, you may have to try quite a few optics to find the one that works best for you, but the EOTech might not be a bad starting point. I hope that helps!
Yes the MRO is trash. I have the green dot and it illuminates multiple dots. Sent it to Trijicon and they said it is normal, and extra dots in the rear lens is because i had it turned too bright (appears on level 4). Total joke. Good large lens, but multiple dots is unacceptable
I absolutely LOVE both my MRO’s as I’m running them on high end go to rifles and IMO it’s better being able to have a larger viewing area with the made in the USA 🇺🇸 MRO optic than made in China Bushnell and Holosuns. It’s give and take as most people complaining have bad Stigmatisms along with other viewing issues. I’ve also had two Eotech EXPS3’s and sold them just because of their horrible battery life. I’ve never seen an optic with no distortion no mater the price and being that distortion or not the red dot is always on target I’m going to order another one now ✌️
I mount my EOTechs and magnifiers a as far back as I can without interfering with charging handles. I either drop the rear sight or push in front of EOtech. The weight is significant. Your right. I like it better with the rear of the gun weighted to help with splits and draw time. Just my experience. Thanks for info.
The whole objective lens justification for poor parallax would be fine if the wasn't for the Aimpoint Pro (that is only like 40 bucks more), which has a similar objective lens and less parallax (better overall lens too and track record for reliability). Maybe Trijicon solution with one lens bigger than the other is just not good. There is such a thing as a bad/flawed overall design. I really don't see the appeal of large FOV on a red-dot, you get used to the edges of the dot being there after shooting for a while with both eyes open, I certainly wouldn't prefer to sacrifice any of the things the MRO sacrifices for bigger FOV.
The Aimpoint Pro is much larger and heavier. Some of us are constantly chasing the lightest guns, and thereby the lightest accessories. I'm one of these people. That's the appeal of the T2 or the MRO, or even the Holosun. As for the FOV, I've covered this elsewhere, but essentially, a wider FOV is desirable because it builds in some wiggle room when shooting in unorthodox positions. The larger the FOV, the more forgiving the optic. Otherwise, the ideal optic would be a tiny piece of glass the size of a pencil erasure, all the way at the front of the gun. We'd all just use the Deltapoint Micro. I cover this in detail in other comment threads, but a larger FOV accounts for user error. A super tiny red dot, super far up on the gun works great at the range under ideal circumstances. But under duress, we make mistakes. You might not have perfect technique. To be clear, I'm not trying to convince you that you should enjoy the MRO. If you don't want one, don't get one. There are so many great options on the market. Options that exceed the MRO in many categories. Instead, my point is that, for some people, in some circumstances, the design has desirable features, and can't be fully written off just because some people don't see those feautures as valuable.
@@thegunpenguin "Otherwise, the ideal optic would be a tiny piece of glass the size of a pencil erasure, all the way at the front of the gun. We'd all just use the Deltapoint Micro." Kind of hard to argue with someone that resorts to hyperbole over a completely fair observation. Just because some people prefer to save 3oz by having a slickside upper receiver, it doesn't mean that kind of weight gap makes a significant difference for most applications. Likewise, the weight gap between MRO and Aimpoint Pro is just 2 oz and it's an overall better optic for a similar price. Just as a suggestion, coming from a viewer: Your whole video came through a bit salty, not as in fun salty, but just salt salty. Obviously can't speak for everyone, but that's not the content I enjoy. You might want to reconsider the tone of your videos if you intend to "succeed" as a youtuber (like in, get more subscribers and viewers).
No offense was intended. In my view, it’s a fair argument. If you disagree, that’s entirely up to you. If you’d like to have a discussion about the FOV, that’s fine, and if not, that’s OK too. As for your feedback, I certainly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I make the videos that I want to make, exactly the way I want to make them. If other people want to watch, that’s great. If they all unsubscribe tomorrow, the videos will continue. I’m not here for you. If this is your first time watching one of my videos, they’re all like this, and so please avoid them. This one is relatively tame compared to some others.
@@thegunpenguin "In my view, it’s a fair argument" Using a task-specific sight that was meant for conceal-carry pistols as a comparison point is a fair argument when the discussion is about two rifle red-dots? The objective lens on a T2 is just 20% smaller than the objective lens on the MRO. Your argument was clearly hyperbolic, that's pretty clear; but, at this point, I'm not sure if you're capable of acknowledging any wrong/flaw in your words, and that might be the real problem here. I guess I'll take your advice.
You seem a bit upset. I’m trying to have a conversation with you. Sometimes two people just miss one other, and that’s entirely OK. I’m happy to take the blame; I can be a bit abrasive. There are usually flaws in my arguments, if not always. That’s why I engage in these discussions. It helps me hone my opinions, and I challenge folks who disagree with me, because I want to understand what I don’t understand. Me challenging your opinion isn’t intended as a personal affront. It means that I want you to give me more than simple sarcasm. I don’t think we’re going to be able to make any progress here. But I appreciate you taking the time! I hope you enjoy the holidays.
So you’re saying (I think, correct me if I’m wrong) that the MRO doesn’t have any worse parallax than comparable optics, the FOV is just much wider. If that’s the case, doesn’t that render the extra FOV functionally useless? Sure, extra wiggle room is nice when shooting from sub-optimal positions, but it won’t help if the parallax is so bad that you’re missing by over a foot at 100 yards. I’m speaking well and truly outside of my expertise here but it seems very plausible to me that optic manufacturers tend to avoid such large lenses for exactly that reason - why have such a large FOV if the parallax makes 30% of the window unusably inaccurate?
I think it matters most whether or not you value that extra FOV. Are you going to be shooting at something 100 yards away in a super awkward position, with the dot pushed so far to one side that you'll miss? Then the MRO isn't right for your needs. Usually, we're shooting at closer targets in strange positions. But not all of us. Choosing the right optic for the right gun for the right purpose is critical. You have to assess your needs and decide whether or not the pros outweigh the cons. In my experience, the effects of the parallax of the MRO have been overstated elsewhere, though it is still quite significant, with the dot jammed to the far side. In my case, I can still get hits, parallax or not. This is worth testing for yourself. As I mention in the video, some eyes very much don't work well with the MRO. It's all a give and take. I favor the image provided by the EOTech because it offers a crazy FOV, and low parallax. And it weighs a ton. And costs a ton. And it's massive.
Are you shooting with 1 eye open or 2?
With an red dots and holographics optics, always two eyes. With pistol irons, one or two, depending on the situation. I wish I'd been able to find a way to illustrate how each looks with two eyes open in the photos, as that is a factor in how each of these performs.
@@thegunpenguin tell me about the importance of FOV when shooting with both eyes open
@@tidypog3272 I had a strong feeling that's where you were headed. The size of the image offers you a bit of leeway with the dot, when shooting in awkward positions or tracking your target. The smaller the glass, the less grace you're offered. You'll be restricted in your relation to the optic.
Ignoring field of view implies that you will always be perfectly behind the gun, shooting as you do at the range. While that would be ideal, I personally like to plan for less-than-ideal situations. Otherwise, every optic would be a tiny piece of glass with a red dot covering the entire tiny window. Using that logic, the Deltapoint Micro is the ideal red dot for all circumstances.
Don't take my word for any of this -- experience this for yourself. Shooting around barricades and under cars can be much easier with an EOTech just behind the mag well than it is with a T2 on an AK gas tube rail.
We can increse that aformentioned forgiveness by moving an optic with a large FOV closer to the shooter's eye. This keeps you from having to jam the dot to one side or the other in an awkward position, inducing more parallax. If the objective lens is tiny, and the optic is very far up on the gun, if there is parallax, you're going to find it. And you're also puttign yourself in a spot where you have to get behind the gun just right. Under pressure, we aren't always able to do that.
This last bit is a bit less important. Some of us who are cross-eye-dominant are abnormally aware of the body of an optic, shooting with our non-dominant eye. Using a rifle many of us primarily shoot with this eye. A larger FOV helps me with this somewhat, and a few others I've talked to have said the same. You may or may not find that relevant or useful.
Last of all, I'm not telling you that you ought to treat FOV as important in a red dot. You buy what you want, for whatever reasons you want. Rather, I'm offering this as a rebuttal to some of the points made in other videos. In some cases, for some people, the width of the image still matters.
I'm going to pin this comment thread so that other people can find it.
I just started doing both open with my 1-6 n its cool af'ing hell. Your brain does that weird (what i call) the "middle picture" thing. Its just there n it gets easier until eventually its natural to not close your left eye.
@@stratelite1337cross dominant here. I just shoot lefty with both open
"Two big thumbs way up!" -Siskel & Ebert
Haha! Between the two of us, we've now covered the gamut of feelings that one might have about the MRO.
Hey, do either of you have an opinion on the Sig Romeo 7? Say as an alternative to the Aimpoint pro? I'm looking for something for my duty carbine. I know Hop dropped it in a bucket of water 5 months ago, but haven't heard anything else yet. Happy New Year's!
MRO HD with its 3x magnifier for $550 in a private sale? Could I find a better reflex optic for that price range?
@@micahstoutenburg7636 do it
@@nisa_rouge I be done did it. It be in the mail.
Bought one as soon as they were released in 2015 just because I wanted something else to try besides the 4 or 5 aimpoints I had. Been on AKs and ARs. Still works, still use it, zero issues. I could care less what anyone else has to say. Especially trolls who buy Bushnell optics and hate on Trijicon.
I purchased an MRO to go in my main AR and I’ve been really pleased with it. I will say, the brightness leaves some to be desired, but this optic is satisfies every need I have for it. Even the gun store employee said, “read some reviews,” and I did. And I think there’s a lot of needless complaining about the MRO bc it’s not loaded with features. It’s simple, rugged, reliable, and will take a beating. That’s all you can really ask for.
I’ve been running the hell out of the MRO for the past 4 years and for 0-75 yard work ( which is how I use this specific optic) have had no problems with accuracy or function at all.👍👍🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸🇺🇸
I appreciate the discussion on paarthurnax
The MRO HD is the one to get. Clear glass and more features, it’s the MRO it should have been this whole time. But, the price point, just buy the T2 instead. Just my opinion.
A new gun penguin video? Christmas is early this year (even for us here where we celebrate mainly on the 24th XD).
Happy belated winter solstice and other seasonal greetings from Germany :)
Thanks for the kind words, my friend! Merry Christmas to you as well! Io Saturnalia!
I bought my 1st MRO when it was fairly new to the market for $375 which included an American defense QD mount. I liked it so much I bought another about 4 months ago, again at a very competitive price. Are these the best money can buy? Maybe not, but IMO these are the best you can get at this price point. Nothing else comes close! Again this is just the opinion of someone that has 2-MRO's, 1-Acog W/the ACSS aurora reticle, 1-RMR, 1-Eotech XPS3, Trijicon tritium pistol sights, Trijicon AccuPoint TR-23 5-20x50mm Rifle Scope and a Swampfox LPVO which is also an excellent optic at it's price point. Each to their own but I like my MRO's. Great video by the way!
The first tube style red dot I ever looked through was a friend's MRO - I didn't really like it. Something was off and I couldn't figure out what. I had to shut one of my eyes to get a clear picture through the MRO, my brain couldn't columnate the two images - which is strange because I have no issues keeping both eyes open even when looking through scopes.
I didn't realize that this was just an MRO thing, I thought all red dots were like that. It pushed me to buying Eotechs for a while, since it was the only other (non-scope) rifle optic I had ever looked through. It wasn't until I took a look through some other red dots that I realized that the MRO just sucked. I would much rather shoot with a $150 Sig Romeo 5 or HS403R - they do not have this issue.
EDIT: I've got to say that the whole "if you suffer from blurriness when using an MRO, then it's not for you" thing is just ridiculous - there are ZERO other red dots on the market that have this issue. That's the whole reason people dog on the MRO.
"That's the trade off for more FOV" which is meaningless with red dots because your other eye gives you all the FOV you need. Matter of fact, having a higher FOV is worse because more of your FOV is tinted and the bezel is larger.
I dropped my holosun ONCE and the reticle became blurry.
I have a green MRO on a Scalarworks Leap mount...I love it! No tint..looks like I'm looking out a window. Dot color is exactly like a tennis ball, greenish yellow. Awesome on my 10.3" home defense pistol in my opinion 👍 I have not tried it with night vision, so I can't comment on that.
I have the MRO Patrol and there's a slight blue tint to it. Doesn't bother me. Great optic.
????
Have a MRO on my Tavor,
Works for me.
Dot blurs on high dot intensity,
But wide view, light weight and compact size wins my vote.
I swear this was the most enjoyable commented review I've watched hands down, subscribed
👍Love the straight forward factual review. I do love my MRO. Never had an issue.
Great video as always 👍 When I eventually move beyond pistols and get into rifles, I’d certainly look to try out an MRO and others to see what works…
Thanks, my friend! What have you been up to?
@@thegunpenguin mostly work, getting settled in the new apartment and trying to get my ass to the range and as many IPSC comps as possible before year end. I’ve certainly enjoyed running the ACRO P-2 and Modlite PL350 combo in on my G17 in Production Optics Light division.
I bought an MRO because of the price, looks, and weight. I couldn’t zero it with consistency much less shoot well with at at any range past 25 yards, I’m attributing it to the parallax and me apparently having an inconsistent shooting position I guess lol. Shots would be off inches. But I ve never had this problem with any other similar optics, I have an rmr, a bunch of holosuns, aimpoint t2 and have owned eotechs in the past. So I took the MRO back swapped it for an Aimpoint PRO, zeroed that in less than 5 min and couldn’t be happier. Maybe I just had a lemon, I really wanted to like the MRO, they are sexy and lighter than the PRO, but the example I had just didn’t perform well. Thanks for the great content!
Wow, a level headed review with a hint of dark comedy. Great work and looking forward to checking out some of your other content. My MRO should be arriving any day now.
I just picked up the MRO Patrol and really like it. Only comparisons I have are an Eotech 512 and Holosun green dot. It's better, in my opinion, than those two.
You went in on, Gonzalez, so hard he was like: Ahi papi!
Was a highlight for me 😂 funny!
First time coming across your channel, awesome video and the Paarthurnax reference killed me
Totally agree. Just looked through a friends "crappy" but totally usable rmr and wondered why the mro gets so much hate while the rmr is the "industry standard."
Kinda like the AK and Mini 14 accuracy. Both are 2-4 moa guns but the Mini 14 is "not accurate" while the AK is "combat effective."
The gun community.....
I’ve got an MRO on a PWS MK111 and love it. I bought it with mount for $420 and it has been flawless on this platform.
When shooting both eyes open the flared objective lens seems to mitigate that thick ring you get from the T2 or it’s Chinese doppelgängers.
The brightness adjustments on the top end are more than suitable for outdoor use, bottom end is purely good for indoor dry fire.
The biggest issue I see is performance under night vision. The amount and the stepping between settings leave a lot to be desired. Even with the larger objective lens the light transmission gained is not able to offset the shortcomings dot brightness. That being said, finding actual quality night vision performance out of a red dot regardless of price is damn near impossible. For a marginal difference and comfort level you are looking at twice the price for the T2 (and then of course you need your tall boi unity mount). In order to gain superior performance under Nods you would have to switch to the Eotech or the Romeo 8T which adds more than double the weight and some price.
MRO is a solid optic choice as long as you know it’s limitations
"Spread genuine firsthand experience"
Alright, you said it. Personally I lined up the MRO on the same rail as a Vortex UH-1 and Vortex Sparc Solar. The MRO has noticeably larger parallax even when accounting for the larger front lens. I'd switch the MRO in front of and behind other red dots and still notice the parallax even at the center 50% of the lens. Not much of an issue at 50 yards, but 200-300 yards shots would often result in missing 2/3 sized torso targets.
But when explaining this online, people would just say I'm a bad shot, or that I don't know how to use a red dot. So I sold it, and somehow every red dot after has resulted in tighter groups on that same rifle. MRO didn't work for me, doesn't mean its not usable by others. I just don't think its right to discount all the criticism as internet nerds that have never used the MRO. Glad it works for you, but that's been my experience. Love the ACOG though, Trijicon nailed that.
Insead of edge distortion, I normally calls it the image shift, the greater it shifts within the sight, the more headache it generates. My MROs have it just enough to ruin the both eye aiming, at least for me.
As for parallex, I tired moving the dot only within the center 50%--still have way more parallex than an average red dot...but they are only 20% larger arent they?
I guess moving MRO backward does imporves the experience. I do enjoy having my MROs, they provided me some unique experiences...but they are just good toys to me.
20:58 sounds like the gun equivalent of the Boss Metal Zone distortion pedal, terrible at first glance but years of experimentation have revealed that it can actually work just fine if you use it in an unconventional manner
Happy Christmas Holidays and Soltice Day Year time Gun Penguin.
You too, my friend! Io Saturnalia and Merry Christmas!
I love my MRO's had them on several rifles. I leave them on all the time and they have been flawless, great field of view and tough. I also keep mine further back to the rear.
Thanks for sharing your experience!
Regardless of the MRO performance, your comedic performance was stellar. Love your sarcastic characterization of those who write comments you don't approve of, Bravo. The douchebag and the chinstrap penguin were hilarious. I'm still laughing, can't type, keep it up.
My MRO has the worst magnification out of a dozen optics I own. I hate it. I did check other at shops and they don't seem to be as bad as mine. So it sits in the safe... wasting away.
If one of mine was that out-of-spec, I wouldn't use it either. Though I haven't seen an MRO like that, I've seen a few optics from other manufacturers that slipped through QC and had so much zoom as to be virtually unusable. Trijicon has excellent customer service; there's a good chance they'll replace it for you. Let us know if they fix it!
😂🤣😂🤣😂
When you talked about the optics the video was very helpful but damn this was more of a dis track man.😂 I’ll keep watching more.
First time discovering your channel. Your insults are top shelf sir. Subscribed
This is the most sensible and least autistic comparison of all of these optics. I never understood the hate that the Mro got, but I also don’t understand why everyone has to suck the pole of the gun tube world to the extent that people do. The Mro has been pretty okay for me, and I like it about as much as any other red dot that I have at the same price point. Unless it’s some major issue where the optic fails, most of these red dots are exceptionally boring and are basically the same with little differences that will be up to your preference.
Great VDO - I like that you actually tried and compared. Thank You for sharing.
I've been rocking an mro on a rifle dynamics 501 on the ultimak for... 6 years I think. Only changed the battery once and it wasnd dead then. I have no issues. Having said that, my holosuns may have a sharper dot.
My Holosun also has a sharper dot. Holosun has been really stepping it up in recent years!
As far as all the bullshit these dudes cry about being wrong with the mro just makes them sound stupid to me. I have killed countless critters from daylight to midnight and never suffered from one of those issues. Tactical elitism = bullshit.
Yeah, it's hilarious. This stems from folks not actually using the shit they buy, I think. They spend time on the internet when they should be at the range, or in the field, shooting a delicious critter for dinner.
Mine has served me well. Had it on an AR for 4 years now. I have it on a qd mount and it’s always held zero when I switch between it & a Leopold 4-12. I really like the Sig Romeo optics. Great bang for the buck.
Thanks for sharing your thoughts, my friend!
Watching this in December 2022 reminds me of the hate the new S650 mustang is getting .
A few people read that it looks like the Camaro and the Sheep run with it ..
A few people read someone's hate on the MRO and they run with it .
What's my point , people suck .
Go with your 2 must haves on optics (Especially red dots) and decide what's best you .
Awesome vid !
I actually didn’t see any real problems from the 1-4 list with mine… I just really dislike that it won’t work with a magnifier for the cost. So it’s relegated to a home defense 300 blk. Decent (not great, but decent) optic if you never intend to use a magnifier with it. Although I’ve heard the HD remedies that.
Just started the video but what are your thoughts on the holosuns? Specifically the 510c? I like the eotech reticle, but 700 is too rich for my blood, so I got the holosun
You know, I haven't handled an MRO personally but I think that the MRO and the Eotech have a lot of similarities.
Both offer best in class field of view with their giant panes of glass. However the MRO trades perfectly clear glass for being way lighter compared to the Eotech which is a hog.
I think on paper I'd take the lack of parallax and distortion the eotech offers in exchange for battery life and weight. But I could see how someone might lean the other way.
Question to Mr Gunpenguin.
Something I've been thinking about is. Could the MRO actually have superior parallax to other optics, but it seems worse because the wide FOV means the dot has a greater angle by which it can deviate from the center compared to other optics?
To test this, you could compare it to an aimpoint or something. And move your head the same distance to the left or right of both optics and measure POI at a target a fixed distance away.
For the Aimpoint suppose you move your head such that the dot is at the edge of the glass, but for the MRO the same distance puts the dot still far from the edge of the glass.
That would be the fairest way to measure the Parallax.
It does. That's what I was attempting to explain in the video, very badly. What you describe is exactly what happens.
My main issue with the MRO is that it's not a Weaver Qwik-Point.
Your speech cadence is pure poetry.
MRO works great.
Especially the model with a green dot.
Thank you for the video.
I like to hear comon sense reviews.
3:20 into this video and the narration has continuously kept my attention the entire time. Came here from the diminutive practical actual economist, or is it the factual minimized tacticalist? Can’t ever remember the name of that channel, but digging it so far man, great work
I put a MRO on my ar 5 years ago, I’ve installed it on 4 others I built for friends since. I always recommend it to people with a budget for it
That was awesome about the Gonzalez dude😂
BEST information on optics! I have been looking at “reviews” on various optics. Some are positive and some not. THIS video puts things in perspective that most reviewers miss. My only concern is that I don’t have experience with optics and want to attempt a purchase I will enjoy. If i want one optic for my HK SP5 for range fun & home security could this be where i spend
my money? MRO? btw: You hit the nail on the head. It is all about trade-offs. Which combination of them will be best for you.
I have one of the "new" MROs. I always thought it was "ok" until I got into night vision. Now I don't use it because the image looking through it to be blurry under night vision. Yes, I know I could adjust my night vision to be in focus through the MRO but then everything is blurry when I'm not looking through the MRO.
After seeing those comments on mounting, I feel compelled to move my MRO to the rail on my gas block.... MAYBE I SHOULD MAKE A MUZZLE BRAKE AND MOUNT A RAIL ON THAT SO I CAN MOVE MY MRO AS FAR FORWARD AS POSSIBLE!!!! LOL
“So um thanks……gtfo”
*instantly subscribes*
24:14 r/ar15 HATES this one secret
Thank you for stressing that different people have different requirements and will like different equipment. If you've ever used any of Leupold's optics, your opinion would be appreciated. They were recommended by an acquaintance with significant professional experience.
Thanks! I've used many Leupold products, but I've never owned any. To be frank, the ones I've tried weren't built to the highest standard, and often lacked features for the price, relative to models from other manufacturers. That said, I hear they've stepped up QC in the last two years or so, and their top-tier scopes are very nice. But generally, my personal preferences are for other optics.
I'm just one guy, with one opinion, and your acquaintance will have far more insight. A second and third opinion would be warranted. Though, I've noticed that, as a generalization, professionals don't always know more than hobbyists. Folks who don't shoot for a living often have their fingers closer to the pulse of the industry. I hope that helps!
@@thegunpenguin Thanks, that does help. Admittedly, my acquaintance is used to their high-end models, not the lower-end civilian models.
What is the best red dot set up for ap5 I have trijicon rmr now and it seems to hit the cover over the needle. Seems odd.
Looking at getting one for my AK with the Occam Defense handguard (unfortunately will need to mount it farther forward). Love Trijicon optics, I have a TR-24 and a TR-25. MRO seems like a quality bomb proof dot, and I actually prefer not having turret caps.
hmmm i got an MRO and have 0 issues with it for the last 2 years. I use it constantly and its lovely. Never knew there was hate thrown at it... well.. idk i love it. and ill keep using it
Consider when the MRO first landed it was the greatest threat to the Aimpoint T1. Also consider there’s a LOT of people on TH-cam and gun Forums have a financial interest or relationship connected to Aimpoint success, and less aimpoint competition. How many of those people have online shops that sell Aimpoint or get goodies from Aimpoint. Figure at least half of the detractors fall into this category. The other half are probably mostly mindless parrots or hanger-ons.
Great video, I’m stuck between the Exps 2 and the MRO for my 14.5 BCM. Been debating it for weeks before I buy. Honestly I have a Romeo 5 that has been perfect. Not one issue with it, there’s also torture test videos of the Romeo 5 that show it’s not a bad optic at all and can handle abuse. Is it worth the $500 upgrade to get another red dot? Can’t make my mind up.
Have you decided?
@@griff7749 Went with the EoTech Exps3
I have been running the MRO for a few months now. All I'm going to say is personal opinion and experience. First off, I wanted to love it. But I'm not there yet nor think I will. That being said, I do like it. I dont see any tint. The ever so slight magnification is there but only noticeable if you focus on it or look for it. The brightness settings are not well balanced. I find myself using setting 4/5 for the most part. 1 thru 3 are so dim that they are unusable. At least to me. 6 is so bright it starbursts. If Trij balanced the settings better, this optic would be fkn epic. But its not. Again, I dont dislike it. Just dislike I use the same settings for all lighting conditions while the other few settings are just, dead weight. For a lack of better term. I dont have nods to test NV on it which, to what I have seen, its where it really sucks ass. Again, have not tested NV on the MRO myself. Its wide field of view is awesome however with any dot, just shoot with both eyes open, push my optic a tiny bit further up on the rail and boom, sweet spot! In a nutshell, its well built. Aesthetically pleasing. Sliiiight magnification not even enough to throw your shots off and barely even noticeable. Brightness settings are unbalanced. I'm still gathering data for my video on it. Nice video, man! Aight, I'm out!
Thanks! And I'm glad you're making an MRO video. We need more to balance the available info. I like your perspective. You don't love the MRO, but you don't think it's the worst either.
As for the field of view, there's another argument to be made for why that matters. The wider the glass, the more forgiving the optic is when shooting in unorthodox positions, around barricades or under cars. You can also better track targets when you're moving (or when they're moving). Otherwise, we'd use optics that are a tiny eraser-sized piece of glass with a dot occupying the whole window, all the way at the end of the gun. Or we'd see the Deltapoint Micro as the best optic on planet Earth.
There are other reasons as well, but that's the strongest argument. A tiny optic very far up on the gun is ideal at the range, but it relies on the idea that the shooter will have good technique, and will get behind the gun in an ideal position. Under duress, I'm just not sure I'm be able to make that happen every time. A bigger window, maybe one closer to my eye, builds in some forgiveness.
In 2021/2022, I certainly hope everyone is shooting their red dots with both eyes open.
I'm not saying that others should do what I do. Instead, I'm attempting to note that we shouldn't write off gear and techniques that fall outside of the ever-changing doctrine of the moment. Thanks for sharing your thoughts!
@@thegunpenguin Very well laid out, my friend. Again, out of personal experience as I do own and use the MRO, I can notice myself transitioning faster so that 25mm objective lens does help. I have mine mounted not all the way back but not RELIGIOUSLY touching the handguard (that had me rollin! 🤣) that mid sweet spot works for me. I really enjoy my MRO. Forgot to mention the first one I bought came in with debris inside the tube. So had to get a replacement right away. I contacted trij about it and they made note of it. They said it was a "very rare occurace" or someone slipped up in their QC dept. What I like about the MRO outweighs what I dislike about it. I'll be talking about this in my video. In the meanwhile, you're video was awesome. Merry Christmas and Happy New hear. Remember, fellas... both eyes open.
Merry Christmas! Also, I get the impression that Trijicon's QC is slipping somewhat. I didn't mention this in the video because I haven't personally experienced it, and I only discuss what I've dealt with firsthand. But a few of my friends have received some suspicious optics that were made during the pandemic rush.
@@thegunpenguin Seems like it for sure. If you got IG, I could send you a pic of how I received my brand new MRO that had to be sent back immediately for a replacement. I think I had my 1st MRO for like 1hr. The new-new one is the one I have been runnin for a few months now.
@@DesertTactical I've got IG, but you don't need to send me a pic. I definitely believe you. Hopefully Trijicon will step the QC back up to where it was a few years ago.
Being completely unusable under nods was another nag
I wasn't able to test that particular one. But I covered most everything else, with a few exceptions. Again, you won't necessarily agree, but it's there. Test the MRO for yourself. Ultimately, neither my video or his matters. Only your personal experience does.
I have one on one of my AR-15’s. Works great, bullets hit where the red dot points, battery lasts seemingly forever, always works. Glad I have it.
Trijicon mro is a really good for the one people are shaming ive seen have been the fake knock offs that are labeled to be an mro and aren’t
I think Hops video was pretty damning of the mro. He was pretty convincing
I disagree. I address most of his points directly, barring a few that I either forgot or couldn't squeeze in. If you watch the video, I cover it. That said, you won't necessarily agree with my points. Instead, I encourage you to test the MRO yourself. Don't rely on me or Hop. Rely on you.
@@thegunpenguin your missing the point shitting on things other people love is the absolute point of the internet!
@@thegunpenguin if I can’t rely on what you say then why did you spend 30 minutes saying it
That’s a question that only you can answer.
I have 3 of them (2 with the red dot and 1 with the green dot) and the only one I dislike is the green dot. Maybe it's my eyes, but it looks more yellowish than it does green. I don't hate it enough to get rid of it though.
I like my MRO but the slight magnification is a big issues with NODs, i dont have much of an issue with this on cheaper red dots like the sig romeo5. If you don’t have NODs then this review is truly incomplete. The eotech seems to be the best for NODs.
Dude you’re so funny. I love clowning on dumb comments. A lot of comment in the MRO videos is that people love them.
Would you recommend the HD or standard MRO since I'm interested in picking one up?
My dude did a review and preached a sermon all in one video I would give it 2 likes if I could
I hear the same internet hatred for the Trijicon ACOG. I think the vast majority of those people only had experience with the ACOG in video games. For me it's one of my go to optics especially the older ones that don't have the sunlight collector and has a cross type reticle rather than the chevron.
I agree! It's funny that you mention it -- I'll be tackling the ACOG in the spring. I LOVE the old ACOG.
@@thegunpenguin I need to get around to buying one, I just can't justify dropping $900-1100 on one at the moment. I did get to play with them a lot in the army. I will say one problem that at least some had was they could lose their zero if dropped however I think it's more of a problem of the mount getting lose rather than the optic itself.
That's understandable! They're a huge chunk of cash.
Love mine. Better eye box than traditional 20mm dots
The MRO does suck but its a good red dot for durability outside of that I would just get a sig for 120 bucks. I've had 5 MRO's, 3 Aimpoint T1 and T2, Sig red dots, Vortex Razor, Eotech 512, 553, XPS series, Burris, Doctor and 3 RMR. Once you put MRO behind any 3x you will understand truly how bad the dot is. Now the new HD I'm hopeful.
Why does that tune that the organ playing in the intro seem familiar?
Hell if I know, but I do tend to use some of the same chord sequences from time to time.
The original MRO (dunno about the HD) looked exceptionally bad with my astigmatism compared to current Holosun, SIG, and Aimpoint red dots. If you've got an MRO and don't have that issue, enjoy having an American made red dot at a reasonable price.
@thegunpenguin hey what's that short throw safety selector lower you've got that has the eotech on it?
That's the Aero M4E1. I highly recommend it! That's just about the only lower I buy these days.
^This guy has the right idea. Aero receivers slap, there's basically no reason to get anything else unless you're ballin' on a budget.
@@Pyreleaf And even then, I think the price is very reasonable.
thegunpenguin very much so, yes. Especially since I've heard breaking off the trigger guard tabs when driving roll pins is a serious concern, you might end up actually saving money by paying for that little bit of extra security up front.
Return of the VOID
It's where I live.
They dont like it because a few "youtubers" say its trash for shock value and views
My MROs dot looks like complete shit. It legitimately looks like a smear of a line of dots. My sig and holosun optics have a much nicer dot
I agree, I gave mine away
The aimpoint pro is in the same price range. What are your thoughts? Thanks
The Aimpoint Pro is a great optic! It's very similar to the Aimpoint I had nearly two decades a go. My only complain is the weight. It's quite large and heavy, compared to the others I show in this video.
I HATE this optic. I've also never used it. But my opinion is legitimately informed.
And emojis ARE punctuation.
Thank god for this review. I saw the review a guy named hoopifile? Can’t remember his name. But he basically shit all over the MRO. And I have a T2, two comp m5s’s, and a comp m4, and I love my MRO…. So I was wondering if I a just a full blown idiot. (Probably am.) I just don’t have night vision yet, so idk if that’s it’s main real drawback. Seems like an amazing optic that I have loved for years.
Excellent review thank you!!!!!
I wanted a steiner px4i bad but i need like 50 more guns and tons more ammo and a porsche. So now im thinking ill save cash and get the MRO.
I wish I heard all this hate for the MRO before I bought mine a year and a half ago. Suddenly, just a few months ago, I started hearing how terrible they were. Funny how none of these issues were mentioned in any of the reviews I watched when I was researching what optic to buy for my 11.5" BCM. Also funny how I haven't experienced any of the issues people like to bring up, but it's not like a run my shit very hard. 99% I'm just dry firing in my bedroom so what the fuck do I know compared to the plethora of flat range larpers who scour the internet looking for opportunities to insert their valuable opinions into random conversations? Maybe if I had nods I might feel differently. Apparently, that's where the MRO truly sucks butt.
TH-camrs with glossy slow-motion footage are the true thought-leaders of our community, and if they say to throw your MRO in the garbage, you do it. And then you fish it back out again next week if the garbage man hasn't come yet, when they say the MRO is excellent once more. That's just what we do. That's how the game is played.
But seriously, an 11.5" BMC with an MRO is a damn fine setup that many would be lucky to have. I've got my eye on the Enhanced Lightweight 11.5".
@@thegunpenguin The ELW is what I have. Doesn't seem to like Wolf though. But that might have been a bad batch of ammo. Cases stuck in the chamber, more than 10 times in a couple hundred rounds (I stopped counting after a while). Next time I take it out I'll shoot brass. Before the stuck cases I had about 300 rounds through it, mix of brass and steel cased ammo. Seemed fine then. Which is why I'm inclined to blame the ammo this time.
“The strongest sperm cell didn’t make it to the egg” you sir, have earned my sub!
(Edit) Turns out I was already subbed!
I find the quality control is terrible. I first got a green dot. The dot itself was like a slash mark. returned it and got the red dot. the larger lens was screwed in crooked. I'll get another one and hope for the best. I'm a Trijicon fanboy even though they're generally overpriced. I think their RMRs are great but way overpriced. I have the EOTECH with the magnifier and it's very cool but like you say, it's very expensive and very heavy. I have and ACOG and while that guy is uber expensive, it's also the greatest optic they make. BTW, love the commentary. Good job.
The second hand market is always hot in the gun world. People need to buy stuff and try it out, or find someone that has something you want to test out. Get behind whatever it is. If it works for you and you can live with the cons, great! If you can't, sell it and move on.
What do you recommend for astigmatism?
The effects of astigmatism are so varied, it's hard to say. Most folks feel that the EOTech works best, but I know plenty of people, myself included, who can work with just about any optic, despite astigmatism. With red dots, I tend to see smearing, and no ill effects with holographic sights. Unfortunately, the short answer is, you may have to try quite a few optics to find the one that works best for you, but the EOTech might not be a bad starting point. I hope that helps!
Good God, that RMR's lens is blue as hell. People put up with this?
If you like a wide field of view, the Sig Romeo8T is fantastic. It *is* a brick, though 😅
And way too heavy for me. That said, if they ever send me one, I'll happily review it!
I think the MRO HD is great !! Everyone has an opinion !!
Yes the MRO is trash. I have the green dot and it illuminates multiple dots. Sent it to Trijicon and they said it is normal, and extra dots in the rear lens is because i had it turned too bright (appears on level 4). Total joke.
Good large lens, but multiple dots is unacceptable
The humor alone is worth watching. LOL
I'd much rather have a wider field of view any day.
My only complaint is the magnifier is made in China
I absolutely LOVE both my MRO’s as I’m running them on high end go to rifles and IMO it’s better being able to have a larger viewing area with the made in the USA 🇺🇸 MRO optic than made in China Bushnell and Holosuns. It’s give and take as most people complaining have bad Stigmatisms along with other viewing issues. I’ve also had two Eotech EXPS3’s and sold them just because of their horrible battery life. I’ve never seen an optic with no distortion no mater the price and being that distortion or not the red dot is always on target I’m going to order another one now ✌️
I mount my EOTechs and magnifiers a
as far back as I can without interfering with charging handles. I either drop the rear sight or push in front of EOtech. The weight is significant. Your right. I like it better with the rear of the gun weighted to help with splits and draw time. Just my experience. Thanks for info.
Good review - appreciate ya.🤙
The whole objective lens justification for poor parallax would be fine if the wasn't for the Aimpoint Pro (that is only like 40 bucks more), which has a similar objective lens and less parallax (better overall lens too and track record for reliability).
Maybe Trijicon solution with one lens bigger than the other is just not good. There is such a thing as a bad/flawed overall design. I really don't see the appeal of large FOV on a red-dot, you get used to the edges of the dot being there after shooting for a while with both eyes open, I certainly wouldn't prefer to sacrifice any of the things the MRO sacrifices for bigger FOV.
The Aimpoint Pro is much larger and heavier. Some of us are constantly chasing the lightest guns, and thereby the lightest accessories. I'm one of these people. That's the appeal of the T2 or the MRO, or even the Holosun.
As for the FOV, I've covered this elsewhere, but essentially, a wider FOV is desirable because it builds in some wiggle room when shooting in unorthodox positions. The larger the FOV, the more forgiving the optic. Otherwise, the ideal optic would be a tiny piece of glass the size of a pencil erasure, all the way at the front of the gun. We'd all just use the Deltapoint Micro.
I cover this in detail in other comment threads, but a larger FOV accounts for user error. A super tiny red dot, super far up on the gun works great at the range under ideal circumstances. But under duress, we make mistakes. You might not have perfect technique.
To be clear, I'm not trying to convince you that you should enjoy the MRO. If you don't want one, don't get one. There are so many great options on the market. Options that exceed the MRO in many categories. Instead, my point is that, for some people, in some circumstances, the design has desirable features, and can't be fully written off just because some people don't see those feautures as valuable.
@@thegunpenguin "Otherwise, the ideal optic would be a tiny piece of glass the size of a pencil erasure, all the way at the front of the gun. We'd all just use the Deltapoint Micro."
Kind of hard to argue with someone that resorts to hyperbole over a completely fair observation.
Just because some people prefer to save 3oz by having a slickside upper receiver, it doesn't mean that kind of weight gap makes a significant difference for most applications. Likewise, the weight gap between MRO and Aimpoint Pro is just 2 oz and it's an overall better optic for a similar price.
Just as a suggestion, coming from a viewer: Your whole video came through a bit salty, not as in fun salty, but just salt salty. Obviously can't speak for everyone, but that's not the content I enjoy. You might want to reconsider the tone of your videos if you intend to "succeed" as a youtuber (like in, get more subscribers and viewers).
No offense was intended. In my view, it’s a fair argument. If you disagree, that’s entirely up to you. If you’d like to have a discussion about the FOV, that’s fine, and if not, that’s OK too.
As for your feedback, I certainly appreciate you taking the time to share your thoughts. I make the videos that I want to make, exactly the way I want to make them. If other people want to watch, that’s great. If they all unsubscribe tomorrow, the videos will continue. I’m not here for you.
If this is your first time watching one of my videos, they’re all like this, and so please avoid them. This one is relatively tame compared to some others.
@@thegunpenguin "In my view, it’s a fair argument"
Using a task-specific sight that was meant for conceal-carry pistols as a comparison point is a fair argument when the discussion is about two rifle red-dots? The objective lens on a T2 is just 20% smaller than the objective lens on the MRO. Your argument was clearly hyperbolic, that's pretty clear; but, at this point, I'm not sure if you're capable of acknowledging any wrong/flaw in your words, and that might be the real problem here.
I guess I'll take your advice.
You seem a bit upset. I’m trying to have a conversation with you. Sometimes two people just miss one other, and that’s entirely OK. I’m happy to take the blame; I can be a bit abrasive.
There are usually flaws in my arguments, if not always. That’s why I engage in these discussions. It helps me hone my opinions, and I challenge folks who disagree with me, because I want to understand what I don’t understand. Me challenging your opinion isn’t intended as a personal affront. It means that I want you to give me more than simple sarcasm.
I don’t think we’re going to be able to make any progress here. But I appreciate you taking the time! I hope you enjoy the holidays.
IO SATURNALIA!
Io Saturnalia!
So you’re saying (I think, correct me if I’m wrong) that the MRO doesn’t have any worse parallax than comparable optics, the FOV is just much wider.
If that’s the case, doesn’t that render the extra FOV functionally useless? Sure, extra wiggle room is nice when shooting from sub-optimal positions, but it won’t help if the parallax is so bad that you’re missing by over a foot at 100 yards.
I’m speaking well and truly outside of my expertise here but it seems very plausible to me that optic manufacturers tend to avoid such large lenses for exactly that reason - why have such a large FOV if the parallax makes 30% of the window unusably inaccurate?
I think it matters most whether or not you value that extra FOV. Are you going to be shooting at something 100 yards away in a super awkward position, with the dot pushed so far to one side that you'll miss? Then the MRO isn't right for your needs. Usually, we're shooting at closer targets in strange positions. But not all of us. Choosing the right optic for the right gun for the right purpose is critical.
You have to assess your needs and decide whether or not the pros outweigh the cons. In my experience, the effects of the parallax of the MRO have been overstated elsewhere, though it is still quite significant, with the dot jammed to the far side. In my case, I can still get hits, parallax or not. This is worth testing for yourself. As I mention in the video, some eyes very much don't work well with the MRO.
It's all a give and take. I favor the image provided by the EOTech because it offers a crazy FOV, and low parallax. And it weighs a ton. And costs a ton. And it's massive.
Like this video and your humor.
Thanks!