Which Knife Defense Program Is The Best? | EWO vs. KCC vs. EOR
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 25 พ.ย. 2024
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Man..... Did you not only kick the knife out of his hand... but then into what would have been his NECK had he not been wearing a helmet? that's something you would see in a movie and call B.S.
I have a small business, and driving that far would add a couple of extra days to the trip, and flying is too expensive at the moment. Do you have any friends closer to Chicago?
@Ambulocetus they all travel and teach in multiple cities... so hopefully they end up near you.
W.E.Fairbairn was the OG of Knife 🔪 Defence! & Developed the 'Defendu' Program for the British Military! He even Co Designed the 'Sykes Fairbairn'🗡️ Knife issued to OSS & Commandos! These are Very Old - but Proven techniques that do Save Lives!! He coined the term "Gutter Fighting" for his 'Anything Goes' No Rules survival Fighting & Defence system! I'd Highly recommend his books! to Anyone for Practical Self Defence! - Cheers👍
Greeting!! I saw a few days back your video about pistol crossbow for defence, love it. If there is a opportunity look for the Vlad Impaler Ek Archery Crossbow, you will love that crossbow.
When we do it at our place we go full wrestling with training knives, basically BJJ and wrestling with knife attacks. It's basically a form of sparring and you realize how hard it is not getting cut and stabbed, but you also learn what can work and what doesn't, how to possible control the attackers bodies while also keeping your focus on their weapon. It's very difficult, but I feel it's good training. You also understand how much fitness really makes a difference, like with any fighting.
That's a quick way to sort out what works.
@Remix God LOOOOOOOOOL!!!!
🤦🤦♂🤦♀
@@frontenac5083 kinda hard to stab someone when you can't see
@remixgod4496 just buy gun
@remixgod4496yeah no doubt, fuck all this knife vs unarmed jazz. Once someone pulls a weapon, either pull yours, find one extremely close or run for your life.
“And… and… I kicked a knife out of someone’s hand.” 😂
SenseiSeth enters chat....
I prefer to wave my hands around producing kanjis in thin air and then teleport 20ft behind my enemy's holding their heart.
He kicked the knife out of his opponent hand and into his opponents head. Crazy
BADASS!
And I stomped down on a spear!
I just wish, I could do such BS reliably. LOL
The three things I learned from combative edge classes I took:
1.knife fighting sucks. The training is hard and in the end there may not be no clear winners
2. Wresting is the way especially when it comes to controlling that weapon bearing arm
3. Situational awareness is more important than skill.
Knife fight/grappling is as tiring as basically every grappling martial arts that exists, it's taxing on the body and the mind
I think Shuai Jiao, Judo, Tai Shou practitioners have a high survivability in a knife fight
@Oodles of Noodles ehh idk about you but I wanna stay on my feet if we're outside on concrete. Too much unpredictable shit could happens even moreso than on two feet IMO
@@BillyBobThorton777Wrestlers are better at staying on their feet than anyone else, until they want it to go to the ground. If you don't want to be on the ground in a street fight, you should learn wrestling. It's how you learn takedown defense.
@@Shacksies Just easy target for sewing
Amazing courses. Also had the privilege of taking all of these courses over the past year and I would definitely agree with you. I know we have discussed these courses a lot, and they are all great for their own reasons. Regardless, if you are serious about learning self defense and more importantly knife defense, go take these courses. Big reality check. Plenty to learn from these courses as well as the instructors themselves.
Oh you've taken these courses?
@@hard2hurt yes i had the super short hair that you didn’t care for :)
@@hard2hurt Looks interesting and maybe will check out if offered in my area (Northern Cali) but I will be very honest here. I have no illusions about "getting the knife" and wrestling out of it. I will either mag dump the guy or if I do not have a jammie on me, I will evade until I find a brick, bat or a really nice rock. Or...I will run my ass off.
Before you say anything about running is bad, I am a trained runner and can outrun most!
Thanks for bringing this awesome course to my attention and I love your channel. I am not a young man and have seen my share of "Bullshido" and you are as legit as it comes.
I don't know how many compliments you get on your composition and writing, but that was a killer intro. There's not a chance I'm not watching this whole video after that. Fishhooked like a sprat
Not many... but thank you! Also, the quote is "fishhooked _by_ a sprat" lol.
@@hard2hurt indeed it is. You kinda remind me of the mighty McGroin or whatever his name was a little bit. Could pull it off in costume anyways.
Excellent comparison and contrasting of these courses, and awesome assessment from someone actually experiencing these and applying the training under intense pressure.
Intense is right.
I’ve done 1/3 of the courses in the video (basically just KCC), but from footage of both Craig’s and Ryan’s material, I can firmly recommend all of them. Very few programs can be so realistic without being edgy, and these are the best courses for using functional combat sports skills in a weapons based environment. Great video!
That knife kick was pretty sweet. Great video!
Great video, and excellent lessons learned!
The first time I had a little bit "fun with knives" with a friend in my backyard was an eye-opener. We went the dueling route - we used sheathed knives (the blades were a bit dull, too, so we didn't have to worry about the knife poking through the sheath) and went at 20-30% sparring intensity (no face stabbing). I had almost zero wrestling experience and some striking and knife-swinging practice, and the friend had zero martial art experience.
The lessons:
1. After a swing or two, it devolved into wrestling with knives.
2. In just about 15-20 minutes (with some breaks), we were both successfully closing in and clinching up without too much damage.
3. My size and skill advantage mattered little at the cutting range and much more at the clinch.
4. Taking the initiative and violence of action had a bigger influence on the outcome than anything else.
A similarly short and playful session or two with my little brother as an attacker (some short rolled up/taped up notebook as a stabbing implement) and me unarmed defending taught me:
1. Shelling up like a boxer helped me survive the first couple of stabs (hit in the forearms) and allowed me to clinch.
2. My lack of wrestling skills became obvious, and it was difficult to control the opponent.
3. The attacker was fixated on the shank and stabbing and left openings for clinching/striking.
4. Slamming him to the ground seemed like a much more effective option than trying to strike and control (we went light with trips and lifts, no actual slamming happened).
5. His lack of proper aggression (out of respect/fear of pissing off his bigger brother) made it easier than sparring with my friend , but I was still getting stabbed a bunch.
In just a couple of short casual sparring sessions, with no expert coach and me going off of "Folsom Prison Knife Techniques" and some stories about how knife attacks happen, it became apparent that good wrestling fundamentals (Judo came to mind back then because it was more common where I live) executed with relentless aggressive intent were the key to surviving (or killing the dude you just assaulted, from the attacker's perspective). Since then, I always wondered why most online knife defense guys/gals had never taken 5 minutes to see how an actual assault would really go down and learn from it.
I'd give my left gonad to take any of the 3 courses discussed in this video. I know that sounds insane, but I'd rather give it freely than lose it in a knife fight because I had no idea how to defend myself against a knife wielding psycho. Also, I have 3 sons, so I don't really need both of 'em anymore.
You're allowed to trade them for stuff once you're done with them?
@@malkomalkavian not legally
@@yamiyomizukiain’t this a free market? I can sell one of my nuts if I want to!
@@malkomalkavian...you didn't know this? I traded mine in for an audi...
@@allosaurusfragilis7782 A8?
Great video, really appreciate all the work you clearly put into doing this.
Yeah... it was a rough process making this one. Thank you!
Mike you're my go to for realistic self defense concepts love your videos man
You put out a video last year, I think, and It was a small blade that another fellow may have designed and It showed him block your arms with his left arm and go for the right side of the groin twist and pulled up, and I'll never forget how devastating that would be, THX for posting. 👍
My AG1 came in yesterday, worth it for sure
Gamechanger!
AWESOME VIDEO! You are right! It's really about your personality, fighting style, experience as far as who is the best teacher for you!
Basically all courses are awesome! great vid as usual
Everything you say about knives makes me feel good about what my MA friends and I have been discovering for decades. I started in judo when I was ten and was always looking for self defense applications in everything I could study. Wrestling, karate, Kung Fu, FMA’s, at their core, are all grappling. When you introduce a knife into the fight, it,by necessity starts a grappling match. So my fellow students and I,through the years, always got the knives out in our free time. I’m glad that through all of the hard work that we put in, we developed skills that I see in all of the courses you’ve presented. Some kind of parallel evolution, after all,we’re all essentially the same. Thanks for your great work and be safe
in my experience focusing on the knife hand and controlling it and then them as a whole served me better than focusing on attacking the person. Striking them as soon as control has been attained...yes for sure.
I've taken EWO twice, and taken the regular level and instructors level KCC. I haven't done EOR, but I've attended HR6, and my first EWO was at Charlotte, so I'm familiar with Ryan's team. I agree 100% with your assessment. I'd also highly recommend the KCC instructor program.
Since you've done the others, you will really love EOR. It will feel like going to an amusement park!
There's a particular tactic I learned very quickly when doing active resistance sparring with knife defense, which is the hand transition. You lock up on the knife hand and start trying to control it, they just snatch the knife with their other hand and go to town since you're now open. I noticed that the defender was particularly vulnerable to this tactic when wrestling. In my (admittedly limited) experience, no knife defense could be considered feasible or practical if you couldn't overcome this tactic.
Did any of these three classes address this?
That is part of the whole edge control. isolate and prevent them form making the transtion. you can see it being done in the clips.
Mike's done a video on Kevin's channel mentioning a person who studied 170 knife attacks and transitions like those never happened in the heat of the moment.
I replayed that knife kick scene so many times lol its like the chefs kiss finisher to that challenge 🤣
One of the things that I can't get out of my head about martial arts of any sort is the selection bias. You're sort of training to fight against other martial artists, but most of the time in real life you're not doing that. Then again, I guess that does give us something to do after the first couple weeks.
In martial arts you’re training to fight against someone who has trained to optimize their fighting style to be as effective as possible. The thing is that a beginner in martial arts may have a bad time against someone completely untrained because the untrained guy may be highly unpredictable, so if your defence (movement, positioning, blocking and dodging) isn’t on point you still risk getting beaten up. You can find examples of this on streetbeef, watch the lamb vs war horse, untrained guy vs guy who looks like he had at least a couple of months of training in martial arts
First you learn, then u teach. Teaching is part of the mastery I've come to learn.
For me the problem always was the skill level difference needet to be succefull in a knife defence. When the knife guy has just a little experince in knifefighting you need to be so much better to have a chance, it's a lifteime of training vs a weekend of training and bad intensions.
Yes. The knife is serious modifier. You could be a guy who could easily handle most dudes and the knife changes the equation by a lot.
@@hard2hurt
If I tried to defend myself against the sort of person who can "handle most dudes" I cant imagine a knife doing me any good at all let alone being a serious modifier. Frankly if I was being attacked by such a person and all I had was a knife I would give up immediately and make absolutely no attempt to fight at all because as far as I am concerned there is absolutely nothing I can do. If possible i would dispose of the knife so it cant be used against me and if this was not possible i would give him the knife in the hope that it appeases him.
FMA is legit in this. I attacked a FMA instructor (with 7 years experience) with rubber knife, freestyle and wildly, and he blocked everything. He was so skilled that I couldn't "cut" even his hands which were blocking my knife hand.
Of course it is... thousands of reps against a knife vs your typical "mcdojo".
Better BJJ wins. Better boxer wins. Better fma wins.
Knife > than trained fighter. It's been tested countless times.
Don't bring a knife to a gun fight.
Don't bring fists to a knife fight.
@@Happy-go-luckyTVok....I'll bring chainmail to the knife fight see how you like that.
Bro! Good stuff man and absolutely agree! These 3 groups are where people need to be to improve their knife Defense skills. Solid review!!!!
Great video. Just did the Kcc instructor online program. Hope i also can work with Craig in the future
Bet that kick felt good when the knife flew out of the hand during the Australian championship.
It’s always good to have room to run when facing knives, but also good to have grappling in the pocket if need be. Both are great
I didn't actually realize it. I thought it was all dome.
Make way for Sensei Mike. Sumo when?
I see some of my coaches in your video from KCC and EOR and they take what they learned and teach us.
I agree with your final conclusion, because it is principle based and that is what all my training is based on, the knife is not the problem the brain of the attacker is the problem. I never focus on any kind of defense, you cannot win on defense, my focus is on decommissioning the attacker as fast and as violently as possible, you have a much better chance of surviving a cut than the attacker has of surviving a crushed wind pipe.
Mike..ur channel has always been one of my favs.❤
This is the video I have been waiting for someone to make for the longest time
So the big question, what are the biggest take aways? Grab the knife arm first? Clinch up and use clinch attacks? Just start throwing punches?
What key things should a person spend the most reps on if we were going to tack something onto the end of regular training?
Currently working on that
@@hard2hurt Yesssss. I was really hoping you were going to say that!
Would be super keen to see you do some kind of weapon control course too, I feel like you have a lot to contribute to this space
Great question. Also my biggest question after seeing many knife attacks, which is can you actually get inside and control someone's knife arm if they are aggressively moving and stabbing with intent to kill you? Most knife attacks have the defender attempting something like this, and if they lose control of that arm, they will be stabbed repeatedly usually in the head, neck, shoulder, or torso faster than they can possibly try and regain control of the arm.
It would be great for you to do a rundown/basics video Mike (without spoiling these great courses.)
Slow clap for that smug ending. That was pretty cool.
That reveal in the end that you kicked a knife out of someone's hand is a plot twist worthy of M Night Shamalyan
Great insight, appreciate the shout out and the hard work.🔥🔥🔥
One thing that most people overlook is that you are most likely going to get cut and through the adrenaline you have to focus and get mean and nasty without any hesitancy because if you don't then you are dead.
** A good friend of mine fought off a suprise attack and was stabbed 9 times before he disarmed his attacker and had punctured his lungs and almost bleed out before he could get to the hospital.
Even in the Marines we needed more knife fighting skills because its usually tought as a last defense.
God bless you and thank you for your info.
"3 butt-scooting grabby-boys" I'm rolling 🤣🤣🤣
No discussion about knife defense and knife fighting is complete without investigating the deThouars Kuntao Silat Serak.
There were 4 brothers.
Three of them have passed in recent years. However Willem is still alive, and has a solid group in Colorado, and his youngest brother Victors school, the VDT Academy, is still going strong under his senior student/instructor.
At our school, we did a knife seminar where we used red markers. Three minute sparring matches, both people with red markers. The least marked competitor stayed “alive” and sparred the next fresh opponent until they “died.” No one left unmarked. Every student left with lethal marks. We all learned the lesson. Make lethal strikes first, then move out of range. And whenever possible, carry a badder weapon at range. The other lesson we learned is to carry a knife on each side, so a trapped arm doesn’t make you helpless while being stabbed. Everyone who attended the course now understands the advantages of two knives, a walking stick, and a gun.
I did like that Ramsey Dewey successfully used a Hapkido lock I've learned for knife defense in the USDC pretty cool
Thanks for this super informative and most helpful video. Your vids always bring practicality and common sense to personal defense.
Mike, it would be cool if you made a video discussing SOCP, Special Operations Combatives Program, as they have a good bit of weapon defense tactics. You're not far from some special people.
two best thing i learnt in deal with knives is 1)it not the knife that kills you it the person with the knife and the best way to survive an account it try and take out the guy with the blade and the second one 2) better to do what they want unless they give you reason to believe they will stab you any way or you can't live with what they want you to do.
Ironic that it was you and not Sensei Seth who did the kicking the knife out of the hand. Amazing stuff.
That kick was badass Mike!!!!
Thank you for reviewing those knife defense courses.
Excellent video with a plethora of info. We will check it them out and train.
We used training knives in the gym today,
I learned how to escape the off arm's grasp and only get stabbed a few times before running away.
How the hell can people actually successfully do anything else?
Nice! My little red rubber knife made it into the first Eli clip!
Good stuff man I’ll have to sign up for some of these to have them come out
"butt-scooting grabbybois" never has a more perfect descriptor been rendered
I learned 90% of what you said in just 1 dog brothers gathering of the pack. Doing knife and stick matches plus I saved a ton of money and time.
Dog Brother gatherings are for sure enlightening... and you can say you learned 90% of what I said in a 12 minute video... but not 90% of what I learned, homie.
@@hard2hurt for sure, you definitely put in the work and time. I did years of martial arts and a lot of stick and knife stuff but like me I am sure you learned most of it goes out the window once the action begins. Keep up posting I love your content.
Did they immediately stop the Self Defense Championship and give you the trophy after the knife kick? They really should have. You should hang a big screen in your gym's lobby that just shows that on a loop and when someone comes in inquiring about training just point to it and say "cash, check, or credit?"
Seriously though, this was a very thoughtful contrasting of the courses. My knife defense experience has come from a kali, wing chun, military combatives base (I think it most resembles EOR of the three) , but I have pressure tested and it seems to go fairly well. I would really enjoy any of these courses I think. I may try to get down to Fit to Fight next time I'm in NC.
Kimura can be awesome tool for this type of self defence. Elli probably has that covered.
It doesn't materialize much. It can be useful, but if you lose it, you are in a very bad spot (inside the arm with the knife). Outside 2 on 1 is superior because if you lose it or choose to disengage, you are a little safer.
This is the best video you have done
I spent over a decade of my life devoted to different martial arts. Many of those years centered around knife combatives. The number one lesson i learned after all of it: buy a gun, a good holster, and train train train.
Thanks for the reviews, super informative.
This was a really great video, your best yet
Ultimate Self Defence Championship episode 2 came and showed us Jeff and Icy Mike himself defeating knife attackers unarmed.
0:01 I'ma stop you right there Mike. Usain Bolt's running academy is the best program.
Cool video, I wish I could've seen some of the techniques, but I understand why...😊
That kick at the end was sick
I literally laughed out loud, when you put Sensei Seth on blast. Now, everyone at the dialysis center keeps giving me confused looks 🤣
Add Ed' OME to the end for a 4th class . It's really deep into using the knife
Very Informative video, thank you for sharing!
I love what you do. Very needed.
Thanks for sharing Sir! Would be amazing to train as you do, expanding your knowledge and experience always 👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼👏🏼💪
Your job looks kind of fun.
The thing about "fun" jobs is they always look fun from the outside... they don't always feel fun when you're doing it.
@@hard2hurt I mean yeah, and on the other hand, you wouldn't go back to a department for basically anything would you?
I'm not saying you have the easier job, but I believe you know you have the better one. 🏆
I still have not found a single soul who told me why striking is not suitable in these situations.
Edit: you prevailed when focusing on the attacker instead of the tool? Wow!! Just what I've been saying for years!! Awesome!!
Striking to realize knife-defense =/= striking after grappling to gain control and leverage.
If you haven’t found anyone who has told you why striking as a primary method for winning a fight with a knife-wielding opponent isn’t preferable to first/primarily grappling, then all you have to do is just watch footage of what happens to someone who tries to box and kick someone until they drop their bladed weapon.
@@christianc.christian5025 If I was the person with the knife and someone who is even minimally skilled tried to make me drop my weapon they would certainly succeed and certainly walk away unharmed. striking is a far more viable option against a knife than grappling.
Butt-scootin' Grabby Boys is my new favorite term for BJJ guys.
Si, great content as always!
Would be cool to see you work with or try ISR-Matrix or Kelly McCann!
Best weapon against a knife attack a broom stick
Thumbs up on the kick and everything else actually Thanks for the info
every training could be good. but here in the provinces of the Philippines where most people are farmers, they learn to cut, chop with their bolo while working in the farms and cutting grasses and woods. The practitioners of bolo or knife fighting will strike banana trunks to practice stabbing and hacking.
Ideal knife defense: a chair, its a shield and pokey bits
my question on the, "hand trapping never actually happens" would be how many of the people involved actually train to do that, because if they aren't trained to they won't.
Lots of them. They all get grabbed, punched and slammed. Same as everyone else.
This is why I watch your channel.
All those courses must hurt. Best bit it's not me.
Thank you.
All of this hurt.
@@hard2hurt I played English rugby when a teenager; that hurt. I did my military bit, that hurt, and I'm fairly busted from it. As my old sergeant used to say:"it's only going to hurt, and you are here now."
Making a career that gets you punched and kicked daily, a regular dose of hurt, is mad. You manage to make it look good mad.
I now try not to look for hurt. Can't say I miss doing freezing river crossings at night either.
When you can't smile about it anymore, stop. Thank you for reminding me what I'm missing.
ATB
Bro that knife kick was dope af😂😂😂
I have always found that the Dog Brothers (DBMA) style of kali tudo had some very good, very simple, practical knife defense. They did a series a long time ago called "Die Less Often", where they ran full-force drills over and over for a three-day weekend seminar, with just a few simple defenses against the standard "sewing-machine" attack (ie. knife held normally in hand, with repeated low/mid-line jabbing to the ribs) - they cover everything you mentioned EWO doing, but they ALSO do ground work since many of them are BJJ guys. The crossed forearm standing defense they show is the only defense that ever worked for me under actual pressure from my training partners. with the full-contact attack scenarios they ran, everyone ended up on the floor quite often - getting that two-on-one/both hands on the opponents knife arm is basically necessary at all times once you engage, whether standing up or rolling around. anything else and you're gonna get cut real bad.
Seth is proud for the knife kick.
Excellent video, thank you for sharing these reviews and analyses How well did the t-shirts hold up to being grabbed? We grapple with street clothes sometimes at my gym, and I've only seen one shirt (a dress shirt) tear apart. T-shirts seem to get stretched out more than they come apart in your hands.
They stretched, but never so badly that they stopped being useful
I always found the Dog Brothers Die Less Often series to be the best knife defense ideas.
Mike, fantastic video!!
And then I watched the self defence champs shank tank drop..........that was an eye opener.
fought a guy with a old folding fillet knife back in 83-84 i can't remember but i ended up with seven stitches in my thumb, i got out of the hospital went found the guy split my stitches when i hammered him. went right back to the hospital, that was the last time i stood before a knife wielding opponent
do video about brain trauma in combat sports and how to minimize the risk pls
I have listened to a few stories about people only having knives against bear. And they were used as piercing weapons more than a slashing weapon. Great tip on clothing. I wonder how I would do in lv 3 ballistics jacket wrestling someone. I have wondered if bear could rip through it.
I think in a real knife attack you’re going to have to somehow remember to briefly ignore the knife and defeat the leveraging arm first and foremost. Once the leveraging arm is locked in you are dead. I think that correlates to what you said about how you seemed to prevail whenever you ‘forgot’ about the knife and just counterattacked as opposed to purely defending.
To bad you didnt go try itay gils knife defense now that would have been super interesting he has a really good system for this. Thank you
Those techniques are great but when someone is bigger stronger younger its game over if you are going to try and fight them.
In a parking lot the best defence is aerosol siren, try to get a vehicle between you and your attacker, if the attacker holds his knife in front of himself he is also afraid and you should be able to back away screaming for help, if the attacker holds his knife behide him he most likely knows how to use it and isn't afraid, RUN screaming and remember he is afraid of moving vehicles!
At: "Three butt-scooting grabby boys" I literally laughed out loud.
As someone who's had a knife put to my throat I appreciate this analysis
"... butt-grabbing, scooty boys..." 🤣🤣🤣
I love living vicariously through Icy Mike. B/c as soon as someone goes hands on with me I'm probably going to end up in a seizure on the ground. No amount of training can fix that.
That Santa dude looked great very fluid
I was thinking of taking a class with Craig Douglas in the future.
That's pretty cool those little packets and stuff what do they taste like though it looks like spinach green I'm just curious