I grew up on the couch between Shonen Anime and Classic Cartoons. Contrary to our classic Episodic Resets- Shonen's willingness to dive into the tragedies of life, dark themes, and their effects- is a major part of the appeal. It's about growth and exceeding adversity; Shonen is by nature- genuinely Inspiring. I had alot of fun with KidsNextDoor no doubt, but GurrenLagann taught me to believe in the people who believe in me.
My opinion as to why shonen anime is becoming more intense and violent is because good storytelling is not enough. A lot of them tell the same story of a boy striving to be the best whatever and they have to add in intense violent scenes, or fan service to keep the audience's attention.
I think it's more because the target demo is trending older. So the content chosen and pushed is doing the same but tbh alot of the older works still had alot of extreme violence, dbz had frieza sliced in half, and that's a more cartoon-style action. Naruto to wasn't a joke alot of limbs and body parts were lost in that show.
I think it's more because the target demo is trending older. So the content chosen and pushed is doing the same but tbh alot of the older works still had alot of extreme violence, dbz had frieza sliced in half, and that's a more cartoon-style action. Naruto too wasn't a joke alot of limbs and body parts were lost in that show.
I would say yes and no. Yes, the fans who used to watch DBZ and Naruto are graduating to more extreme stuff. But at the same time, the next audience of kids 8+ are seeing these as their first shonen anime which is pretty shocking to think about!
@SurvivingAnimation i get that but what I'm trying to say is that Shonen has older people watching now, so alot of shows cater to them too. That's emphasised by older aged protagonists in these shows, Demon Slayer, Solo leveling, attack on titan and jujutsu Kaisen all hv 16+ aged show leads.
I think millennials were fans when first seeing anime on Toonami and now they're introducing those anime and others to their children at possibly even younger ages. As for the themes nowadays, I'm not sure why they're so much more violent. Maybe gen z have seen so much darkness in this world that they're unfazed when it comes to decapitation and murder in anime.
More like a trend I think it's evolution, just like the history of censorship in tv. Just little by little they permit stuff or streched the field. They noticed that not only young teens watched this, some themes started to feel old fashion or not as attractive to the audience so they have to spice up, and when a show making all this blow up, it breaks the mold and now more shows can be like that. Even since 90s anime had more dark tones than western cartoons, but i think us media restricted too much and thats why anime have so much advantage in narrative now.
I could be wrong but from what i've read of manga, it seems you're describing a shonen 'conventional battle' manga. Even yugioh, which is an unorthodox battle manga, doesn’t adhere to the physical training part. Bakuman does a great job of giving a view of the process.
I think its also a cultural thing as well. Japan is way less sensitive when it comes to subject matter like violence and sexuality. Demon slayer the movie: mugen train was rated pg in japan but was rated r in america. So I think audiences that watch anime just want something that doesn't shy away from darker themes
@SurvivingAnimation - Thanks for this breakdown Eric! How would you compare these pillars of strucutre as it relates to this sort of 3rd-4th gen of shonen anime to perhaps Gen 2 (80s) in a series of Dragonball? I don't recall Goku really having a personal character goal, but more so story goal of obtaining the other dragonballs.
Personally, I think what drove Goku in Dragonball is exactly what you said - he wants to collect the Dragonballs (as does everyone else), which makes it an easy-to-track adventure with antagonists and protagonists wanting the same thing. But, as it went to Z, I would say it became much more about fighting the villains in front of them with his goal being to be better and better and better to chase the challenges that come. But it's also personally exhilarating and exciting for him.
Goku's personal goal has always been to get stronger. Even from Dragon Ball, he asked to be asked to be trained by Master Roshi for this. The Dragon Balls were basically a way to jump start their adventure because Goku himself only cared about the 4-star ball his guardian left him. This goal of always getting stronger coincides perfectly with the villians he encounters.
@@kaydee1485 Goku's goal was not from the beginning of the story was my initial question. In the manga we get introduced to Roshi soon, but again. It's not necessarily Goku's goal at first if I'm remembering correctly. In the anime it's even longer before that's established. Compared to chapter 3-4 in the manga
@@dtomos at the beginning of the show Goku had no real goals other than adventure, Bulma was the one with a goal of wishing for a boyfriend, she convinced Goku to tag along to get both his 4-star ball and a bodyguard, by suggesting it would be something Grampa Gohan would be proud of. The adventure made him aware of the wider world and through seeing the kamehameha wave and misunderstanding the Saiyan Monkey disaster, Goku thought there were stronger beings out there than him, which help create his goal. Lol sorry, because of DB: Daima I've gone back to watch the original DB, so it's all fresh in my mind. All I was trying to say is that he did develop a personal goal but came through chasing after the dragon balls (which was Bulma's goal).
Hey, Eric, i watched ur video of the Business of Anime. I thinked to myself, why instead of paying an anime studio to animate for me, i offer them to co-produce with my production company and form a committee, i offer them that we can share benefits and royalties and co-produce together? That way i can make an anime? You said that anime studios are not interested in jobs that only are paid for production, right? Can u answer me that?
Thanks for watching! There are lots of specific details that are too complicated to answer in a TH-cam comment section. But, I will honestly tell you that most anime production companies do not form their own production committees and the production committees that do exist in Japan do not allow members that do not already have a lot of experience in the anime or manga business. That's why it's been so hard for foreign companies and individuals to get involved.
@@SurvivingAnimation Then, i have to pull out the plan B, open an animation studio in Japan, what do you think? It's a good idea if you think about it.
@@papaquisqueya If you're fluent in Japanese, can relocate there (or if you already live there) and have a solid business model with a few years of working capital you can do it!
Anime was never really intended for children because the general purpose of anime was more about selling manga titles. Take this from someone who has been watching anime and reading manga for nearly 40 years.
@@gloriathomas3245 Wow you must have watched and read so many incredible titles! But have to disagree with you! The medium is quite vast, so there are business efforts to reach all kinds of audiences - including children. Doraemon for example is one of the most beloved and venerable kids series. Also, I think it over-simplifies to say there's one 'general purpose' for making anime. Some are meant to push game sales. Others are to elevate manga licenses to the franchise level which pushes merchandise. While some are meant as a way to launch franchises like card games. Finally, some are made for the sole purpose of theatrical ticket sales. Most recently, of course, a lot of anime has been made to promote streaming subscriber sales too.
@SurvivingAnimation I can't speak about anime today but much of the anime I came up on in the 80s and 90s was largely geared towards a young adult to adult audience. In fact what really made anime from that era more enjoyable comes down the fact they leaned into mature/adult-oriented themes and creators weren't shy about inserting their own political beliefs. These days you won't see something like Grave Of The Fireflies or Jin-Roh be made
@@gloriathomas3245 there were kids anime back then too. It's just that those for older audiences were the ones that spread everywhere. But soon astroboy, dragon ball and pokemon filled the gap for kids. Now, anime is far-reaching so there're more established ips and franchises taking root, and more movies and shows in general so you'll have to work to find niche but great content like the oldies Samurai 7, sword of the stranger, Akira, Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the shell, fist of the North Star.
a genre of Japanese comics and animated films aimed primarily at a young male audience, typically characterized by action-filled plots. So it's for kids and always has been? Id say ya every shonen anime is one of the big 6. I think if i only ever saw studio key's works and berserk i would have gotten everything anime can offer you. I think the only one ive ever really enjoyed was hunter x hunter and thats still pretty silly for me but is still cool. I say this after just re finishing elfin lied and realize that this just isn't my genre. Ironically id say SAO was one of the best one's in awile( say what you will about hack. it's really not that interesting or super special.) It also is tripping me out, i know your face and voice and it's not from this channel
@@haleypoole9081 Well I've been around the animation biz for about 30 years, so maybe we crossed paths at one point! In terms of Canada, I've also attended a fair share of Ottawa animation festivals too.
I grew up on the couch between Shonen Anime and Classic Cartoons. Contrary to our classic Episodic Resets- Shonen's willingness to dive into the tragedies of life, dark themes, and their effects- is a major part of the appeal. It's about growth and exceeding adversity; Shonen is by nature- genuinely Inspiring. I had alot of fun with KidsNextDoor no doubt, but GurrenLagann taught me to believe in the people who believe in me.
Thanks for your comment! Gurren Lagann is one of my favorites of all time too!
My opinion as to why shonen anime is becoming more intense and violent is because good storytelling is not enough. A lot of them tell the same story of a boy striving to be the best whatever and they have to add in intense violent scenes, or fan service to keep the audience's attention.
I think it's more because the target demo is trending older. So the content chosen and pushed is doing the same but tbh alot of the older works still had alot of extreme violence, dbz had frieza sliced in half, and that's a more cartoon-style action. Naruto to wasn't a joke alot of limbs and body parts were lost in that show.
I think it's more because the target demo is trending older. So the content chosen and pushed is doing the same but tbh alot of the older works still had alot of extreme violence, dbz had frieza sliced in half, and that's a more cartoon-style action. Naruto too wasn't a joke alot of limbs and body parts were lost in that show.
I would say yes and no. Yes, the fans who used to watch DBZ and Naruto are graduating to more extreme stuff. But at the same time, the next audience of kids 8+ are seeing these as their first shonen anime which is pretty shocking to think about!
@SurvivingAnimation i get that but what I'm trying to say is that Shonen has older people watching now, so alot of shows cater to them too. That's emphasised by older aged protagonists in these shows, Demon Slayer, Solo leveling, attack on titan and jujutsu Kaisen all hv 16+ aged show leads.
@@kaydee1485 And that awesome lead character in Kaiju #8!
I think millennials were fans when first seeing anime on Toonami and now they're introducing those anime and others to their children at possibly even younger ages. As for the themes nowadays, I'm not sure why they're so much more violent. Maybe gen z have seen so much darkness in this world that they're unfazed when it comes to decapitation and murder in anime.
More like a trend I think it's evolution, just like the history of censorship in tv. Just little by little they permit stuff or streched the field. They noticed that not only young teens watched this, some themes started to feel old fashion or not as attractive to the audience so they have to spice up, and when a show making all this blow up, it breaks the mold and now more shows can be like that. Even since 90s anime had more dark tones than western cartoons, but i think us media restricted too much and thats why anime have so much advantage in narrative now.
I could be wrong but from what i've read of manga, it seems you're describing a shonen 'conventional battle' manga. Even yugioh, which is an unorthodox battle manga, doesn’t adhere to the physical training part. Bakuman does a great job of giving a view of the process.
Really good point! Thanks for adding in the nuance. I think you're correct!
I think its also a cultural thing as well. Japan is way less sensitive when it comes to subject matter like violence and sexuality. Demon slayer the movie: mugen train was rated pg in japan but was rated r in america. So I think audiences that watch anime just want something that doesn't shy away from darker themes
The way you described the typical Shonen anime the first thing I thought of was My Hero Academia. 😂
You would be correct! That's one of the best shonen anime!
@SurvivingAnimation - Thanks for this breakdown Eric! How would you compare these pillars of strucutre as it relates to this sort of 3rd-4th gen of shonen anime to perhaps Gen 2 (80s) in a series of Dragonball? I don't recall Goku really having a personal character goal, but more so story goal of obtaining the other dragonballs.
Personally, I think what drove Goku in Dragonball is exactly what you said - he wants to collect the Dragonballs (as does everyone else), which makes it an easy-to-track adventure with antagonists and protagonists wanting the same thing. But, as it went to Z, I would say it became much more about fighting the villains in front of them with his goal being to be better and better and better to chase the challenges that come. But it's also personally exhilarating and exciting for him.
@@SurvivingAnimation Forgot to respond to this, but wholeheartedly I agree and makes sense when explained that way. Thanks!
Goku's personal goal has always been to get stronger. Even from Dragon Ball, he asked to be asked to be trained by Master Roshi for this. The Dragon Balls were basically a way to jump start their adventure because Goku himself only cared about the 4-star ball his guardian left him. This goal of always getting stronger coincides perfectly with the villians he encounters.
@@kaydee1485 Goku's goal was not from the beginning of the story was my initial question. In the manga we get introduced to Roshi soon, but again. It's not necessarily Goku's goal at first if I'm remembering correctly.
In the anime it's even longer before that's established. Compared to chapter 3-4 in the manga
@@dtomos at the beginning of the show Goku had no real goals other than adventure, Bulma was the one with a goal of wishing for a boyfriend, she convinced Goku to tag along to get both his 4-star ball and a bodyguard, by suggesting it would be something Grampa Gohan would be proud of. The adventure made him aware of the wider world and through seeing the kamehameha wave and misunderstanding the Saiyan Monkey disaster, Goku thought there were stronger beings out there than him, which help create his goal. Lol sorry, because of DB: Daima I've gone back to watch the original DB, so it's all fresh in my mind. All I was trying to say is that he did develop a personal goal but came through chasing after the dragon balls (which was Bulma's goal).
Thank you for this one because it aligns with intentions in current developments indeed. Going to coin the name here first and make Soulnen Anime 😊
Cool! I like that term! Can't wait to hear more about it!
Hey, Eric, i watched ur video of the Business of Anime. I thinked to myself, why instead of paying an anime studio to animate for me, i offer them to co-produce with my production company and form a committee, i offer them that we can share benefits and royalties and co-produce together? That way i can make an anime? You said that anime studios are not interested in jobs that only are paid for production, right? Can u answer me that?
Thanks for watching! There are lots of specific details that are too complicated to answer in a TH-cam comment section. But, I will honestly tell you that most anime production companies do not form their own production committees and the production committees that do exist in Japan do not allow members that do not already have a lot of experience in the anime or manga business. That's why it's been so hard for foreign companies and individuals to get involved.
@@SurvivingAnimation Then, i have to pull out the plan B, open an animation studio in Japan, what do you think? It's a good idea if you think about it.
@@SurvivingAnimation Also, i heard that most Japanese animators are freelancers.
@@papaquisqueya If you're fluent in Japanese, can relocate there (or if you already live there) and have a solid business model with a few years of working capital you can do it!
@@papaquisqueya True-ish. Legally, yes. But they are very very loyal to the producers and managers that give them work.
I think Shonen has expanded and is not only for kids anymore. It encompasses adolescents too.
And old men like me who still watch them too! 🤣
Anime was never really intended for children because the general purpose of anime was more about selling manga titles. Take this from someone who has been watching anime and reading manga for nearly 40 years.
@@gloriathomas3245 Wow you must have watched and read so many incredible titles! But have to disagree with you! The medium is quite vast, so there are business efforts to reach all kinds of audiences - including children. Doraemon for example is one of the most beloved and venerable kids series. Also, I think it over-simplifies to say there's one 'general purpose' for making anime. Some are meant to push game sales. Others are to elevate manga licenses to the franchise level which pushes merchandise. While some are meant as a way to launch franchises like card games. Finally, some are made for the sole purpose of theatrical ticket sales. Most recently, of course, a lot of anime has been made to promote streaming subscriber sales too.
@SurvivingAnimation I can't speak about anime today but much of the anime I came up on in the 80s and 90s was largely geared towards a young adult to adult audience. In fact what really made anime from that era more enjoyable comes down the fact they leaned into mature/adult-oriented themes and creators weren't shy about inserting their own political beliefs.
These days you won't see something like Grave Of The Fireflies or Jin-Roh be made
@@gloriathomas3245 there were kids anime back then too. It's just that those for older audiences were the ones that spread everywhere. But soon astroboy, dragon ball and pokemon filled the gap for kids. Now, anime is far-reaching so there're more established ips and franchises taking root, and more movies and shows in general so you'll have to work to find niche but great content like the oldies Samurai 7, sword of the stranger, Akira, Ninja Scroll, Ghost in the shell, fist of the North Star.
a genre of Japanese comics and animated films aimed primarily at a young male audience, typically characterized by action-filled plots.
So it's for kids and always has been? Id say ya every shonen anime is one of the big 6.
I think if i only ever saw studio key's works and berserk i would have gotten everything anime can offer you.
I think the only one ive ever really enjoyed was hunter x hunter and thats still pretty silly for me but is still cool.
I say this after just re finishing elfin lied and realize that this just isn't my genre. Ironically id say SAO was one of the best one's in awile( say what you will about hack. it's really not that interesting or super special.)
It also is tripping me out, i know your face and voice and it's not from this channel
Where do we know each other from?
@@SurvivingAnimation Are you Canadian?
@@haleypoole9081 No, but I used to work for Nerd Corps Entertainment in Vancouver back in 2011!
@@SurvivingAnimation Hmm, so you where famous off another account maybe? im not sure. Neat though, guess my brains derping mb.
@@haleypoole9081 Well I've been around the animation biz for about 30 years, so maybe we crossed paths at one point! In terms of Canada, I've also attended a fair share of Ottawa animation festivals too.