Reg, I agree with what you are saying about throttle application through the corner. In fact I did one of my own called "Speed, Gear Acceleration" that looks at the use of the controls to achieve that. I guess the Trail Braking advocates will be along soon. 🙄 One thing I did note in the video is your drone shot looks like you are turning in very early, rather than going a little deeper to see all of the exit. Of course you've probably got a great cross view, but it may give the wrong impression without an explanation.
Appreciate time /effort that's gone into this video, but still sooo much misunderstanding of trail braking (as its known). On roads like these ,rarely would it be required, because of visibility, obviously a touch of local knowledge, types of bends etc. However when making progress (won't matter if your not) on unknown tightening radius type bends (you won't know that at the entry point), it's very useful, and I can testify, that one of the biggest reason I see novice riders upset a bike into a bend, is usually because they are desperate to get off the brakes, through fear of carrying them into it .... Usually because they've misjudged their entry speed, or have a thought process that suggests we should know every entry speed for every single corner.
Hi reg, just wanted to thank you for the video. Doing some last minute cramming as I have my I.a.m test tonight! Fingers crossed 🤞. You explain stuff really well and I know I'm a much better rider because of the course and guys like you. Keep it up chap. I'll let ya know how I get on. Deano
Reg, thanks. I'm a relatively new rider on my first bigger bike - an R6 and was wondering why my speed was dropping so much on the corner - feeling rather unstable. I was getting the point of almost being angry at myself. I'll give this a go on a ride out tomorrow - and over the Grane!
Enjoyed the video Reg and will practice it. This isn’t a criticism, but had the camera been positioned on your offside we could’ve seen your throttle, front brake actions.
Wow, I've had it in my head that you shouldn't start to apply throttle until you have achieved the correct lean angle for the corner. I think I got this from Twist of the Wrist, or at least I interpreted the info that way. Cornering has always felt a little clumsy to me. Next time I'm out and about I'm going to give this a go, it sounds far easier!
If on approach to any curve or bend or corner you come off the gas or throttle then you are as said slowing or braking and that could possibly destabilise the bikes front to back stability. The front becomes heavier and less prone to any steering inputs and the rear, without drive or acceleration is just in a neutral or coasting situation and is no longer driving the bike forwards. The bike is most stable if the front and rear of it are in unison and balanced. . Working together to move forwards in unison. This is only achieved when the suspension or balance between the front and rear of the bike is relaxed and not under pressure.ie the the front not dipping,making the front end and steering heavier, due to the slowing down, or the rear wheel being driven under too much acceleration which will make the rear of the bike heavier but could cause a lightening of the contact patch of the front wheel with the tarmac which is not recommended. This action, if too much acceleration is used could lift the front wheel off the tarmac and cause a wheelie. which is something that can happen when one uses too much acceleration. If the bikes suspension is balanced in a mid way, front to back then that will be the safest way to take a bend or corner. Its like riding at a steady speed and maintaining a constant revs, not slowing or quickening. That cause the bike to be better balanced and able to react to any slight changes made.That's the same way to take a bend. Under a constant throttle, not slowing and not going faster.That said in order to negate the slowing effect of leaning over on one tyres and thus side walling and riding a less reduced circumference then by simply applying a few more revs., enough to maintain a constant speed one will once again balance out the bike front to rear. Far too often riders will accelerate throughout the bend and increase speeds accordingly but at said that will place increased pressure an put more weight on the rear drive wheel and end up with a much too light a front wheel which reduces the steering input and also and this is just as important, reducing the amount of tyre grip that one has. Tyre grip is important all of the time. More so on a bend and so if one is leant over the degree of lean depends upon ones speed and the severity of the bend. Then a greater or lesser amount off grip between tyre and tarmac is being used up and and therefore 100% of what should be grip is no longer available. If a considerable amount of grip is lost then the ability to steer quickly out of trouble or braking in an emergency is lost. If grip is lost then the bike could be lost also.
14m50 - the line you take through the left hand turn looks to be more a racing “apex” line, than the one where position 3 is held for longer to improve the limit point information - before accelerating through to finish in position 2 after the exit. Are you advocating the former or latter in your videos?
@@krytenLister Reg likes to mix it up and ride his way as opposed to whatever may be in the current Roadcraft. I presume he is a class 1 driver capable of high speed pursuits etc. as and when required and thus trained to that objective to be as safe as possible at those much higher speeds. Going as fast as his vehicle will go, lets say 165 mph. and therefore his training does involve the usage of the racing line and more of the full use of the road thus wrong siding etc. That said anyone civilian training to be an advanced driver or rider should only be instructed to a police class 3 standard as any higher standard than that requires one to be able to exceed the normal legal speed limits which civilians cannot or should not be doing. All police drivers are basically trained to class 3 standard and all training is by IPSGA anyway so no one is losing any valuable insights or safety at all by being trained to that level 3.. Class 1 and 2 differs only with some practises and procedures and policy for travelling at the higher speeds. So a class 3 standard or advanced driver/rider although it is not to the same standard as a class 2 or class 1 police drivers/rider can be trained to civilians but who cannot exceed the speed limits or break any laws. I think that Reg is sometimes failing to understand that principal
IF you have lost the correct amount of excess speed prior to entering a bend and you adjust the throttle a little when turning the front wheel to compensate for any slowing that takes place naturally, Then keeping to the same distance to the limit point around that bend you don't have to use the rear brake at all. That is if you have done all that well. Its only if the bend tightens up or your actual speed is a little too high and you are catching up with the limit point do you ned to consider slowing gently and maybe then use of the rear brake to help stabilise the bike and or the front and rear brake judiciously to gradually slow one and get out of danger.
That’s not a technique for safe riding…IPSGA is explained at 2m20. Gather Information available about the bend (eg tree lines may reveal advanced Information of the upcoming bend), Position for safety first then view (eg Right hand side for left hand bends), then use acceleration sense and braking if required to drop Speed as appropriate based on the Limit Point. Select correct Gear, and then use Acceleration sense through the bend. As the Limit Point reveals the bend is ending, apply more Acceleration to complete the corner. This is NOT a racing technique but a methodical approach to riding with Safety paramount.
7m30 - getting on the gas at the outset of corners. I believe it’s about giving it enough gas to take the lash out of the chain, and bias the Drive of the bike through the back tyre (and not Road decelerating the bike through the tyre through to engine braking). This stabilises the bike (and prevents the uncertainty mentioned earlier in the video).
@@krytenLister I guess the one exception is competition with criminal suspects in the real world also? I understood trail braking is part of police car / motorcycle advanced training in the UK. As you know trail braking is a technique where the driver applies the brakes while still turning the steering wheel. This helps to transfer weight to the front tires, which increases their traction and reduces understeer especially in vehicles that don't oversteer at turn-in. Understeer is a condition where the front tires lose traction and the vehicle starts to slide sideways. Trail braking can help to prevent this from happening and keep the vehicle under control during a high-speed chase. Police officers in the UK are trained in a variety of driving techniques, including trail braking, in order to safely and effectively pursue suspects. Trail braking is a relatively advanced technique, and it is only taught to officers who have already demonstrated a high level of driving skill. Here are some of the benefits of trail braking in a police vehicle chase: * It can help to prevent understeer, which can make the vehicle more difficult to control. * It can help to slow the vehicle down more quickly, which can be important in a high-speed chase. * It can help to maintain the vehicle's stability, which can be important in avoiding accidents. However, there are also some risks associated with trail braking, such as: * If the brakes are applied too hard, the vehicle could skid. * If the brakes are not applied smoothly, the vehicle could lose control. * If the driver is not experienced in trail braking, they could make a mistake and cause an accident. Overall, trail braking is a valuable technique that can help police officers to safely and effectively pursue suspects. However, it is important to use it carefully and only when necessary.
What absolute twoddle. if you 50pence it around the corner it clearly shows your bike is NOT set up correctly for your weight and style. Rather than ride round you bounce round because the suspension is too soft and the spring rate is wrong. if you're trying to explain neutral throttle position or neutral phase, you're doing a bad job at it. And we thought you were an "advanced" rider. you took the left bend through the apex, directly over the man cover, that then put you into the oncoming cars (luckily they were further away this time), but next time you apex it might be a different story.
What a load of bollocks. I have been riding bikes since the age of 7 both off and on roads and 16 on the roads on motorcycles and that was way back in the 1960's I taught on RAC/ACU motorcycle courses for a number of years before joining the police service. .Whilst in the police service I learned the right way of riding at normal road speeds as they are now and at much higher speeds also and with the emphasis on being safe as much as is possible at at all those speeds. I must say that this may appear to be an eye catcher but it is in no way the safest way of taking bends at all. Lets let Reg do his own thing and and leave him to it shall we. Why did he ride his old bike a semi racer and not an adventure or road bike. He might have had more credibility if he had done so but he chose to show off his talents on a racing style bike perhaps to demonstrate or rather show off his acceleration sense and own abilities.
@@mikeroberts No matter what. I still stand by what I said and really if he had used a different bike other than a racing style bike bike, maybe a street bike then to my mind he could possibly have been more credible. That said I will stick with the tried and tested IPSGA etc. as it has kept me safe for more than at least 5 decades Perhaps I have been doing it all correctly all those years and as said and I agree, if anyone fails to follow all the advice correctly then it really doesn't matter that its a safe and effective means of taking bends. Without anything like a good degree of safety in ones mindset it could and does sometimes end in a disaster and possible death or severe injuries..
@@mikerobertsnope it's not. Soorts bike has a different wheelbase/trail to adv bike etc. Sports corner better compared to adv as it has shorter wheelbase. In short long wheelbase for long rides and short wheelbase for twisties.
![BOWKYLION - วิงวอน (ex-change) [Official MV]](http://i.ytimg.com/vi/cLdnZWDaO-w/mqdefault.jpg)
Extremely helpful.. always debate with myself. Now understand the need to establish a maintenance level of throttle to go through smoothly.
The best video I've seen on cornering by far. Thank you Reg.
Reg, I agree with what you are saying about throttle application through the corner. In fact I did one of my own called "Speed, Gear Acceleration" that looks at the use of the controls to achieve that. I guess the Trail Braking advocates will be along soon. 🙄 One thing I did note in the video is your drone shot looks like you are turning in very early, rather than going a little deeper to see all of the exit. Of course you've probably got a great cross view, but it may give the wrong impression without an explanation.
Hi Mike, yes a trail braker (when needed) has appeared. 😊
Appreciate time /effort that's gone into this video, but still sooo much misunderstanding of trail braking (as its known).
On roads like these ,rarely would it be required, because of visibility, obviously a touch of local knowledge, types of bends etc. However when making progress (won't matter if your not) on unknown tightening radius type bends (you won't know that at the entry point), it's very useful, and I can testify, that one of the biggest reason I see novice riders upset a bike into a bend, is usually because they are desperate to get off the brakes, through fear of carrying them into it .... Usually because they've misjudged their entry speed, or have a thought process that suggests we should know every entry speed for every single corner.
Hi reg, just wanted to thank you for the video. Doing some last minute cramming as I have my I.a.m test tonight! Fingers crossed 🤞. You explain stuff really well and I know I'm a much better rider because of the course and guys like you. Keep it up chap. I'll let ya know how I get on. Deano
Never mind your knees. Keep it and ride it. Great bike. Good video.
Having just bought my first rear wheel drive car, I'd love to see a video explaining any differences in driving style compared to a FWD!
Reg, thanks. I'm a relatively new rider on my first bigger bike - an R6 and was wondering why my speed was dropping so much on the corner - feeling rather unstable. I was getting the point of almost being angry at myself. I'll give this a go on a ride out tomorrow - and over the Grane!
Enjoyed the video Reg and will practice it. This isn’t a criticism, but had the camera been positioned on your offside we could’ve seen your throttle, front brake actions.
It would also be interesting to see the speedometer , to see the variation in speed around the stages of the corner , both right and “wrong” way
Best beautiful sharing 👍🚗🚙🏍️🏍️🏍️🏍️🏍️🏍️🏍️🛞🎉🏆🏆👏👏👏✅✅👍👍👌🪴🪴🪴
Wow, I've had it in my head that you shouldn't start to apply throttle until you have achieved the correct lean angle for the corner. I think I got this from Twist of the Wrist, or at least I interpreted the info that way. Cornering has always felt a little clumsy to me. Next time I'm out and about I'm going to give this a go, it sounds far easier!
Really helpful video - many thanks.
Brilliant 👍🏻🛵👌🏻
one day Im gonna learn how to become an advanced and then master driver
Sent you an email a couple of days regarding coaching but not received any reply as yet,live in Edgworth
If on approach to any curve or bend or corner you come off the gas or throttle then you are as said slowing or braking and that could possibly destabilise the bikes front to back stability. The front becomes heavier and less prone to any steering inputs and the rear, without drive or acceleration is just in a neutral or coasting situation and is no longer driving the bike forwards.
The bike is most stable if the front and rear of it are in unison and balanced. . Working together to move forwards in unison. This is only achieved when the suspension or balance between the front and rear of the bike is relaxed and not under pressure.ie the the front not dipping,making the front end and steering heavier, due to the slowing down, or the rear wheel being driven under too much acceleration which will make the rear of the bike heavier but could cause a lightening of the contact patch of the front wheel with the tarmac which is not recommended. This action, if too much acceleration is used could lift the front wheel off the tarmac and cause a wheelie. which is something that can happen when one uses too much acceleration. If the bikes suspension is balanced in a mid way, front to back then that will be the safest way to take a bend or corner.
Its like riding at a steady speed and maintaining a constant revs, not slowing or quickening. That cause the bike to be better balanced and able to react to any slight changes made.That's the same way to take a bend. Under a constant throttle, not slowing and not going faster.That said in order to negate the slowing effect of leaning over on one tyres and thus side walling and riding a less reduced circumference then by simply applying a few more revs., enough to maintain a constant speed one will once again balance out the bike front to rear.
Far too often riders will accelerate throughout the bend and increase speeds accordingly but at said that will place increased pressure an put more weight on the rear drive wheel and end up with a much too light a front wheel which reduces the steering input and also and this is just as important, reducing the amount of tyre grip that one has.
Tyre grip is important all of the time. More so on a bend and so if one is leant over the degree of lean depends upon ones speed and the severity of the bend. Then a greater or lesser amount off grip between tyre and tarmac is being used up and and therefore 100% of what should be grip is no longer available. If a considerable amount of grip is lost then the ability to steer quickly out of trouble or braking in an emergency is lost. If grip is lost then the bike could be lost also.
Great video. Would be good to work with you 👍🏻
Thank you!!
14m50 - the line you take through the left hand turn looks to be more a racing “apex” line, than the one where position 3 is held for longer to improve the limit point information - before accelerating through to finish in position 2 after the exit.
Are you advocating the former or latter in your videos?
Yes it was the racing line ....however he had full view through and well beyond the corner
@@krytenLister Reg likes to mix it up and ride his way as opposed to whatever may be in the current Roadcraft. I presume he is a class 1 driver capable of high speed pursuits etc. as and when required and thus trained to that objective to be as safe as possible at those much higher speeds. Going as fast as his vehicle will go, lets say 165 mph. and therefore his training does involve the usage of the racing line and more of the full use of the road thus wrong siding etc.
That said anyone civilian training to be an advanced driver or rider should only be instructed to a police class 3 standard as any higher standard than that requires one to be able to exceed the normal legal speed limits which civilians cannot or should not be doing.
All police drivers are basically trained to class 3 standard and all training is by IPSGA anyway so no one is losing any valuable insights or safety at all by being trained to that level 3.. Class 1 and 2 differs only with some practises and procedures and policy for travelling at the higher speeds.
So a class 3 standard or advanced driver/rider although it is not to the same standard as a class 2 or class 1 police drivers/rider can be trained to civilians but who cannot exceed the speed limits or break any laws.
I think that Reg is sometimes failing to understand that principal
So you brake early before the corner then ease on the throttle all thru corner while dragging the rear brake?
IF you have lost the correct amount of excess speed prior to entering a bend and you adjust the throttle a little when turning the front wheel to compensate for any slowing that takes place naturally, Then keeping to the same distance to the limit point around that bend you don't have to use the rear brake at all. That is if you have done all that well. Its only if the bend tightens up or your actual speed is a little too high and you are catching up with the limit point do you ned to consider slowing gently and maybe then use of the rear brake to help stabilise the bike and or the front and rear brake judiciously to gradually slow one and get out of danger.
I've been taught to late brake into a corner, to improve overall speed. Is this better if stability won't be an issue?
That’s not a technique for safe riding…IPSGA is explained at 2m20. Gather Information available about the bend (eg tree lines may reveal advanced Information of the upcoming bend), Position for safety first then view (eg Right hand side for left hand bends), then use acceleration sense and braking if required to drop Speed as appropriate based on the Limit Point. Select correct Gear, and then use Acceleration sense through the bend. As the Limit Point reveals the bend is ending, apply more Acceleration to complete the corner. This is NOT a racing technique but a methodical approach to riding with Safety paramount.
7m30 - getting on the gas at the outset of corners. I believe it’s about giving it enough gas to take the lash out of the chain, and bias the Drive of the bike through the back tyre (and not Road decelerating the bike through the tyre through to engine braking). This stabilises the bike (and prevents the uncertainty mentioned earlier in the video).
@@wl660 thank you for your explanation of the safety priority
Trail braking .....advocated by people that don't understand the difference between competition track riding and real world road riding
@@krytenLister I guess the one exception is competition with criminal suspects in the real world also? I understood trail braking is part of police car / motorcycle advanced training in the UK. As you know trail braking is a technique where the driver applies the brakes while still turning the steering wheel. This helps to transfer weight to the front tires, which increases their traction and reduces understeer especially in vehicles that don't oversteer at turn-in. Understeer is a condition where the front tires lose traction and the vehicle starts to slide sideways. Trail braking can help to prevent this from happening and keep the vehicle under control during a high-speed chase.
Police officers in the UK are trained in a variety of driving techniques, including trail braking, in order to safely and effectively pursue suspects. Trail braking is a relatively advanced technique, and it is only taught to officers who have already demonstrated a high level of driving skill.
Here are some of the benefits of trail braking in a police vehicle chase:
* It can help to prevent understeer, which can make the vehicle more difficult to control.
* It can help to slow the vehicle down more quickly, which can be important in a high-speed chase.
* It can help to maintain the vehicle's stability, which can be important in avoiding accidents.
However, there are also some risks associated with trail braking, such as:
* If the brakes are applied too hard, the vehicle could skid.
* If the brakes are not applied smoothly, the vehicle could lose control.
* If the driver is not experienced in trail braking, they could make a mistake and cause an accident.
Overall, trail braking is a valuable technique that can help police officers to safely and effectively pursue suspects. However, it is important to use it carefully and only when necessary.
What absolute twoddle. if you 50pence it around the corner it clearly shows your bike is NOT set up correctly for your weight and style. Rather than ride round you bounce round because the suspension is too soft and the spring rate is wrong. if you're trying to explain neutral throttle position or neutral phase, you're doing a bad job at it. And we thought you were an "advanced" rider. you took the left bend through the apex, directly over the man cover, that then put you into the oncoming cars (luckily they were further away this time), but next time you apex it might be a different story.
What a load of bollocks. I have been riding bikes since the age of 7 both off and on roads and 16 on the roads on motorcycles and that was way back in the 1960's I taught on RAC/ACU motorcycle courses for a number of years before joining the police service. .Whilst in the police service I learned the right way of riding at normal road speeds as they are now and at much higher speeds also and with the emphasis on being safe as much as is possible at at all those speeds.
I must say that this may appear to be an eye catcher but it is in no way the safest way of taking bends at all. Lets let Reg do his own thing and and leave him to it shall we.
Why did he ride his old bike a semi racer and not an adventure or road bike. He might have had more credibility if he had done so but he chose to show off his talents on a racing style bike perhaps to demonstrate or rather show off his acceleration sense and own abilities.
What are you on about? The technique that Reg covers in the video is exactly the same on a Fireblade as it is on a BMW GS or any other style bike.
@@mikeroberts No matter what. I still stand by what I said and really if he had used a different bike other than a racing style bike bike, maybe a street bike then to my mind he could possibly have been more credible.
That said I will stick with the tried and tested IPSGA etc. as it has kept me safe for more than at least 5 decades
Perhaps I have been doing it all correctly all those years and as said and I agree, if anyone fails to follow all the advice correctly then it really doesn't matter that its a safe and effective means of taking bends. Without anything like a good degree of safety in ones mindset it could and does sometimes end in a disaster and possible death or severe injuries..
@@rcraven1013 Err, I'm confused/puzzled. 🤔 What Reg is talking about is IPSGA.
@@mikerobertsnope it's not. Soorts bike has a different wheelbase/trail to adv bike etc. Sports corner better compared to adv as it has shorter wheelbase. In short long wheelbase for long rides and short wheelbase for twisties.
@@mikerobertsWill be surprised if IPSGA promotes racing lines?