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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 10 มิ.ย. 2024
- In 2024, the life of every EV owner is changing forever as automakers switch to the Tesla NACS plug, now known as SAE J3400. As Ford, Honda, Genesis, Mercedes-Benz, Rivian, Volkswagen, Chevy, and every other car company transitions from CCS to the North American Charging Standard numerous benefits will open up to electric vehicle drivers, but things may not be as rosy as you would think. Experts Shawn McLaughlin, CEO and Founder of Emporia Energy, and Sam Abuelsamid, Principal Analyst, Guidehouse Insights, provide insight on what to expect.
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⏱️ Chapters
0:00 Introduction
0:45 November 2022
1:35 Biggest Benefit of NACS
2:33 CCS vs. NACS Design
4:50 What Might Go Wrong
6:39 Cable Woes
7:46 What About CCS Adapters?
9:22 Development of SAE J3400
10:40 Conclusions
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Impatient? Look for a Magic Dock near you and do THIS: th-cam.com/video/yR2-WbpYRSI/w-d-xo.html
Not in every EV! Just the EV’s for the American market. The rest of the world already has the CCS as standard.
@@dutchdryfly CCS2, yes. CCS2 as a standard in USA would have avoided a lot of this connector nonsense.
NACS Will be in EVERY EV Soon *in AMerica
@@jonpetter8921I wish. Not in Leaf. Also, Stellantis has not committed yet.
The manufacturers that are converting over to NACS, should put their charging ports on the back-left of the car. This will make parking at a fast-charging station universal. If not, parking will be a disaster with some people backing in or sticking out of the stall. I've seen it many times at the CCS network.
What if it's back left or front right? That way if you want to back your butt into the charging station or you can directly pull into the charging station?
This is fine for cars, but for trucks that might be towing, this won't work.
Have you *seen* how many vehicle operators lack the ability to properly back in their vehicle? FWIW, I'm 100% with putting connectors either in aft-port (so they can back in) OR fore-starboard / mid-fore (so they can pull in). But seeing how people struggle to actually back in has me concerned.
They won't. Petrol fillers may be towards the back but there was never any agreement about which side and that is unlikely to change with EV charge ports. Actually having it at the front like a Nissan Leaf is best because then you can drive through with the charger on either side with no need to reverse, just like you go past a petrol pump.
Or Tesla Superchargers could stop putting laughably short cables on their chargers. Even their own Cybertruck has issues plugging in at a busy supercharger station because of where their charge port is.
I have a non Tesla EV. The only part of the EV experience I hate is the CCS charging cable and connector. I am a senior with some arthritis in my hand and find the cable is awkward to handle and the connector difficult to plug in for L3 charging. I have tried hefting the Tesla cable, what a pleasure.
I have noticed in the last few months a dramatic improvement in the reliability of the EA chargers in my area.
I’ve been using the J1772 and CCS adapters for over a year with my Tesla Model Y on Electrify America, EVGo, Volta, ChargePoint, OPConnect, Blink, EV Connect, and EVCS. I’ve occasionally had some issues but I report them and they usually respond fairly quickly to fix whatever the issue is that I’m experiencing. Worst case scenario, I just go to a different station or the nearest Tesla Supercharger. Tesla has the most reliable network by far and I’m actually happy that other people will get to experience it. Once Porsche makes the switch to NACS, I might consider a Taycan.
Worst case scenario, I just jump in my ICE car (with 450 mi range) at -20 and with a 3 minute fill, I can go WHEREVER I want with NO anxiety!
@@henryhill3778 if you have anxiety, you should try not being a sheep flake. 🐑 ❄️ The average ICE car only gets 387 miles of range. The Lucid Air gets 500+. I never need to visit gas or charging stations except on the rare roadtrip once or twice a year because I can charge overnight at home while I’m asleep in my bed. Can you get gas at your house? 😆 I also never need to visit anywhere for maintenance because EVs require zero oil changes and need basically none as compared to the ICE cars I’ve owned. Of course, this is what happens when you show up in the comments having no idea what you’re talking about and just repeat the lame stream media’s talking points. 😂 📺 🐑 When I drove 3,000 miles from Rhode Island to California, my car was done charging by the time I was done eating, grabbing a drink, booking a hotel for the night, or taking a dookie. 💩 I’ve owned ICE and EV and I’d never switch back to ICE. EV are vastly superior.⚡️ 🙌🏻 Now, let me turn on Fox and see what else you think. 🐑 🐑 🐑 …or do me a favor and just keep repeating Tucker right here in the comments like some brainless zombie. 🧟♂️
@@tmharperjrdefensive much? A list of ev benefits would have sufficed. If anything, you come off more aggressively maga than the guy with the ice car, using character attacks just like trump.🍻
@@henryhill3778I drive an ice truck and get range anxiety every time my fuel light goes on while I’m on the highway. Gas pumps are sometimes farther away than was thought. Maybe poor planning on my part, but gas anxiety can still be a thing. I’m sure EV engineers learned from the problems with cold in Chicago this winter and are already working on improvements. 🍻
@@Bierdaddy1 I’m sure ICE engineers learned from the problems ICE drivers experience every time there’s a hurricane and you see mile long lines as the fuel runs out … and hopefully, this comment doesn’t hurt any ICE drivers’ feelings. 😢 😆
With vehicle buyers knowing cars are switching to NACS (J3400) next year this could be a tough year to sell a car with a CCS socket.
NACS to CCS already exist so I will suggest dealers to give(sell) it with the CCS car!
.. but if they are all untested, and may have compatibility / reliability issues.. this is not good for an open free EV market in the USA
No problem at all. Consumers are not very smart. They will buy a car without even trying to find out how to recharge it, then get mad when it does not charge at a Tesla supercharger. As long as the car is "pretty" they will buy it.
Yes but buyers might get really great deals. If you don’t do lots of long road trips and NACS adapters are available for CCS EVs it shouldn’t be that much of a liability.
@@COSolar6419 Yep, could be a good year for shoppers.
My 2021 Tesla can’t use CCS even with an adapter with doing an upgrade supporting CCS handshaking. When the non-Tesla chargers convert to NACS (J3400) I’ll still need to do the upgrade
I don’t get that, many Teslas sold outside the US come standard with CCS-2 sockets instead of the NACS sockets, as the Tesla charging network is almost (or in many cases, totally) non-existent in many countries
But going to J3400 isn't going to help with non-Tesla station reliability... Putting a shiny new plug on old frankensteined equipment and expecting that to make it more reliable is like trying to fix a car that "pulls to the right" by replacing the steering wheel...
Isn’t the point to use the Tesla superchargers?
@@jbmop Given the congestion at some Superchargers, I can imagine the scene when Bolts, for example, show up to charge at those locations.
Will everyone know to avoid anything except for Tesla Superchargers?@@jbmop
@@drmcallisgiven Tesla’s plan to spread double the number of existing supercharger stations by the end of 2024 it’s not going to be a problem in the longer term. Also, deals like the one that just happened where BP is buying Tesla superchargers and branding them BP Pulse stations but will still be maintained by Tesla, it’s going to be a breeze to charge long distance trips.
It will allow drivers to drive to a reliable charger. The others will be forced to step up their game or go bust.
Its a bit like VHS vs Beta. We all gain if it's just one standard for charging.
Beta was superior to VHS. But Sony was too arrogant and so everyone else migrated to VHS and Sony finally gave in. Point being, sometimes the best option doesn't win.
Kind of like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
No it is not. The whole world is not using NACS except of North America
NACS connector is smaller than the CCS connector and has a lighter cable.
NACS and CCS use the same communications protocol between the EV and the charging station. @@madmikesch2453
3:30 so the NACS plug will need to be replaced 3x as often as J1772 or CCS?
v4 superchargers are now at how many locations? Isn't Tesla only going to update to v4 when it's gotten its money's worth from existing locations?
You are as insightful as you are humble, sir. :)
Thanks for the information. It's a frustrating to keep waiting with little official information. We own a VW ID.4.
The reason I like the NACS is it’s aftermarket uses. Imagine converting classic cars to EV. Many of the fuel doors on vehicles from the 60s and earlier simply aren’t big enough for even a J1772, let alone a CSS.
This is an overlooked benefit that is a very good point.
Hardly any classic cars are going to be converted and if anyone is so keen to do such a conversion the size of a charging port flap is irrelevant.@@EVPulse
I hope that there is an aftermarket conversion to NACS for Nissan's LEAF.
@@rogerphelps9939 Right on. As the Koolaid drinking early adopters are drying up, the sales of EV's are drying up, and the resale of USED EV's are going to TANK!
@@timothystockman7533 Leaf uses the CANBus protocol. It will never work because of that.
Correction: SAE J3400 will be in every EV soon. It's NACS pinout but with added features so it can't really be called NACS. If you are looking for an adaptor for your CCS plug, I'd wait until SAE J3400 official adaptors come out.
There is a very cheep transition plug. So what's the hipe?
Buying an adaptor will not give you access
If this is the case, Tesla and/or all other manufacturers need to make a reliable and reasonably priced adapter to fit NACS for the current and older model vehicles taking CCS and CHAdeMO. Otherwise, just make EVs that physically have all the ports out there.
I agree and I believe it’s in the works.
Not necessary. All the older EVs with CCS will be junked soon enough. They were not designed to last. When the lease runs out, the car dies.
Will an AC Adaptor work for a Level 2 Charger?
It already does.
Install a NACS charger at home & use an adapter to go to J1772 if needed.
Could that adapter from NACS to CCS also be an extension cord? That would solve the Supercharger short cable issue.
1) It's not a "Supercharger short cable" issue, it's a "Consortium (CCS) failed to agree a common port location over 14 years of discussion" issue.
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2) You can't use an extension cord to extend a cable with integrated cooling.
consumers should be able to choose a car that has a front charging port if they want; that's called a free market. If you're going to let one company dominate the design of all EVs, then you might as well make them in charge of the whole network and infrastructure to go with it. Oh, hang on, that's what's actually happening!!
The port won't matter unless the charging providers work on keeping the stations in working order and having better software. Once SAE J3400 becomes the main option. Competion in the power distribution to vehicles is great means everyone will have options vs waiting for a few stations
With NACS the female part in the car uses less copper and smaller to locate other areas of vehicle
I agree that the Tesla NACS connector will charge the vehicle very similarly to a J1772 plug for level 1 or 2 charging, but where it really has an advantage is that it can also do DC fast charging. The connection of the NACS plug is easier than the connection of the CCS plug which you have to carefully line up the connection.
Wrong. You just stick the CCS connector in and it works.
@@rogerphelps9939It’s clunky. Watching a woman do it is hilarious. NACS is easier.
@@TrendyStone My wife manages the CCS connection for AC charging at our house no problems, and the CCS-2 DC plug also really easily, here in Thailand there is NO Tesla charging network, Teslas are relatively rare, and extremely expensive, and the charging networks are fast, modern and, now there are almost as many different companies competing for our dollars (alright, Baht) as there are fuel companies trying to sell us petrol, in fact most of them ARE the fuel companies !!!
@@victorblakey4260 Sure...but NACS is much more elegant and less clunky. Just hold the two in your hand side by side.
Well, only in North America. In the rest of the world the standard is CCS which allows for three phase charging at home, something that NACS doesn’t.
You forgot to mention another negative to having some non-Tesla cars adopt the NACS connector. Hyundai, Kia and Genesis EV cars are among the fastest cars currently charging and can use 350k CCS chargers to charge faster then the Tesla v4 Superchargers. Once they get the NACS connector, won't they charge slower?
The NACS plugs/cables will be installed on EVgo, Electrify America, etc.
Tesla brand stations will be an OPTION. Future versions of Superchargers will likely take other charge rates into account
Do you have any evidence that a J3400 connector on an EA station will be better than CCS1?
What is the name of the connector they call on the ones at gas stations? Universal?>
Yeah. There's several websites including out of spec that state the single most common reason for a CCS connector being out of service is that failure of the mechanical lock. All chargers won't transfer electricity unless it gets a positive lock. In the CCS design the lock sits on the outside of the device, rather than internal. This exposes it to direct force eg when the handle is dropped on the ground, which happens regularly. In the CCS ddesign that mechanical lock bends or breaks. In the NACS design the lock is internal and so doesn't break when the handle hits the pavement. Also the Tesla handle is smaller and lighter, and it is much easier to insert it into the compared with the huge, committee designed CCS connector.
@@csf1757Not convinced. I have taken plenty of road trips with CCS1 cars over the past 9 years and saw very few broken connector locks. I have seen plenty of dead screens/ offline stations due to software. J3400 uses the CCS protocol and because EA, EVgo, etc. must use UL listed cables, the cable will likely be just as heavy and as unwieldy as they are today.
Will we see changing as you go down the road where we recharge while moving down the road? The charger is in the road.
No
That is cost prohibitive. I expect we can see that in parking lots, but it will take a long time before that happens on major roadways
@@Techridr little by little it is coming along nicely in many other countries.
@@drakemia4079 Like most things, cost go down in time. Fingers crossed it's sooner rather than later
@@Techridr I think it will if they want to sale cars and a lot of power hits the earth every day in sun light and we will only get better producing electricity to feed these cars,with so many kinds of energy it is a endless supply.
CCS is also interesting in that it looks and feels like a gasoline pump handle.
But unlike a gas pump handle you dont have to stand there and hold it while it charges. Plug and walk away come back in 20min when it done charging. Well that how tesla work at least and they do always work. Unlike some of the junk chargers out there that never work. Electrify American for one
Size of the connector is important to at least one manufacturer of cars. That manufacturer is Aptera.
And electric motorcycles.
When will manufactures learn to coordinate and cooperate when designing things like charging ports and cables? They did the same thing with cell phone charging, coming out with several different designs, eventually standardizing phone chargers and now the U.S. is behind the eight ball when it comes to EV charging.
The problem I see is that currently Tesla limits which of their charging stations can be used by other vehicles. I recently tried to find a Tesla station open to my Hyundai vehicle and the closest “approved” one was over 3 hours away! That certainly did not help me much! Plus, what if Tesla decides to upcharge other vehicles for using their chargers? I just don’t see this as a level playing field…
That’s partially because now you need a Tesla station with a Magic Dock connector. Once the car natively supports the Tesla plug that can change.
Tesla can set its own rates but it also has competition that it might not have had before.
@@EVPulse But not all superchargers will be usable by non-Teslas.
Yes, that’s my point exactly. I bought a Tesla adapter for my Hyundai but that doesn’t mean I can use any Tesla charging station. So until ALL Tesla stations allow other brands to charge it’s still going to be a PIA to charge other brands! So it’s not the so-called game charger until this happens.
@@garysherwood5981 Only V3 and above superchargers will be compatible
Right but even if it’s limited it’s still more than they are now. And competition is good, no?
What about the several hundred V2 Superchargers that will not work with non Tesla vehicles even with an adapter?
Older stations are actively being upgraded to V4. But even if that wasn’t the case it’s still a win as there’s more places for people to charge.
Good info. Time will tell how it’ll all play out especially regarding handshake and communication reliability.
Handshaking is (still) down to the manufacturer.
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What users really want is ubiquitous, *reliable* simple charging.
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What is needed is a change in the perception by some that "Tesla is in control", (which led to the "must have card reader" legacy)
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A separate, nationwide payment system, similar to a credit card, but linked to the vehicle would solve that.
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You plug in.
The system recognises the car.
It knows the car is linked to an account (that can be encrypted)
Every car would be sold with the account details ready.
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Assuming the car (account) has no flags from previous non-payment, when the connection is made, the system switches the charger on.
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If there's a system issue, communication down, the charger stores the transaction, *the car gets the charge* (and also stores the transaction).
When communication is restored, the system collects the data from the charger. The next time the car is charged, there's a check flagged to confirm the previous session.
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If there's a billing (account) problem, the account owner gets a message, essentially "you get this charge, but pay the bill!" (There's time to investigate while charging!)
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The driver (and/ or account holder?) Gets a text receipt for accounting purposes if desired.
(Wouldn't an app which automatically collects, collates and outputs that data for distance range and cost monitoring be great?)
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Nobody gets stranded (unless there's a catastrophic power failure, but that's taking everything out)
Everyone gets "plug and charge.
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The outcry might be "BUT MY FREEDOM!!..... I don't want a "special" account!!"
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You're currently using a *credit card* which...
Tracks you.
Gathers information.
Sells your charging and vehicle ownership details to others.
......
The other factor is of course equipment reliability.
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How about...
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Tesla licenses the charger design for "others" to build and brand as their own?
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Advantages?
1) It's the most reliable system.
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2) Every technician working on the same chargers makes nationwide maintenance easy (you want to carry ONE set of common spares and have every technician able to work on *every* charger)
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3) Faults become known and fixable more quickly through the combined knowledge base of technicians.
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4) Every customer (driver) will be familiar with every charger.
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5) Those other companies, including auto manufacturers(?) can gain from association with a working network ("advertising") and maybe, if they (and the Government) are smart, gain some funding which might offset the need for "other assistance" later?
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6) More companies in the game means more jobs in those companies and potentially a much faster rollout.
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What's in it for Tesla?
It advances the Master Plan, takes pressure off them, gives Tesla drivers more chargers to use.
EV drivers will be very worried in the meantime.. if they don't own a Tesla
@@decimal1815 .. and if they own a Tesla all they have to worry about is the astronomically high cost of car insurance!
Tesla can only charge with one phase AC? How is that the future, except if you want to sell DC charging? 32KW AC 3 phase charging is common in Europe with a CCS socket, if your EV has a proper 3 phase onboard charge that is.
They use a 4-20mA signal to communicate. That's kinda easy to do.
Kind of like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
One of the biggest problem is Tesla is a 400 watt system and most other manufacturers are using a 800 watt system so it would take approximately 2 and a half times longer to charge at Tesla maybe even longer so you would still have to go to evgo or other charges that support 800 to 1000 watt cars. On the other hand Tesla would have to upgrade their chargers to handle the higher load
I think you mean 400v not watts
Standardization is the key, like ICE are 👍👍
How it could be robust CCS - if you use only one side at the time
Also was that a sneaky photoshop at 0:15? Had me doing a double take lol
Edit - haha didn’t even realize that was the video thumbnail.
So, the physical connectors are compatible. BUT... That is only a first step. Right now, you need a separate app and payment setup for every charge vendor. Will that change? Will a single software car and phone app also become the standard? Or, will we still have multiple apps on your phone to deal with like non-Tesla owners have to deal with now? Will connecting up to any vendor's charger read your car's info and billing info allowing the charger to adjust charging options, including max charging rates and billing rates based on the car you drive? The connector could be basically an app connection. Your car could be treated like a USB device with the charger polling the car for all information and even special apps required to efficiently charge your car and dis-charge your bank account. This will require an open interface with inherent hacking risks. Physical connection compatibility is nice, but software standards are needed, too.
Ya, similar to what we're use like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
@@henryhill3778 ya, no need to create an account to use your credit card at a gas pump. No connection issues because tank fill and pump nozzle sizes are standardized. 😁
Many manufacturers are implementing "Plug & Charge" where your car knows your account & talks to the charger to get things authorized.
Additionally, beyond Tesla - many chargers accept credit/tap to pay - no account or app required
I believe the average cost to use a Tesla supercharger is at $0.25 per KWh (~ +3 miles of range for a midsize EV car). Considering a regular efficient gas car offers ~ 30-36 mpg (Hyundai Kona for example) and gas in Texas @ ~ $2.60 per gallon then those gas vehicles are about the same or slightly cheaper per mile than an EV at $3.00 per gallon equivalent. A 2024 Toyota Prius at 57 mpg is close to HALF the cost of an EV per mile! California, Hawaii and more expensive gas at $4.50-$5:00+ may be closer IF YOU DRIVE A TESLA.
HOWEVER - Given what appears to be a significant surcharge that Tesla adds to the cost per Kwh for non-Tesla vehicles using nacs (reportedly at $0.48 to $0.55 per kwh) pushes the cost for the EV at more ~ the $6.00 per gallon equivalent!
Yeah in that case a hybrid or a gas car might be the better option in Texas IF they can't charge at home.
Yes, so one has to calculate the cost before deciding. The numbers you gave aren't always true. Electricity cost can be much lower (e.g., 5cents/kWh, can charge at home) and gas prices can be much higher ($5/gallon). The electric vehicles can be more efficient, 4.5 miles/kWh and the gas car can be less efficient 20 miles/ gallon. So it all depends.
Then don’t use superchargers unless you have to. The point of an EV is to charge at home most of the time and use the superchargers for longer trips
@@bitbat9 Sadly, not an option for those in a high rise or only have on-street parking :(
@@callistoscali4344 I can charge my EV at home on overnight reduced rate around 7 cents per KWh
Volex plc providing charging plugs for non Tesla cars
Cannot understand why Tesla would support other EV manufacturers who are NOT supporting the EV industry by deploying additional charging infrastructure.
When owners of non-tesla EVs have trouble finding a fast charger (or, in the case of Electrify America, finding one that works), it means bad press for EVs in general, which in the long run would also negatively impact Tesla.
Exactly! Obviously Elon is seeing if NON-tesla EV's fail, the entire industry will become an Edsel.
The perceived reliability of supercharger stations is going to crumble once you have 30 different manufacturers plugging into it.
Also, the charging speeds that faster charging cars get now is going to go way down at superchargers because the DC cables are smaller.
Think the lines are long now and people are pissed, and Tesla won't answer the help line when it's -20 at fast chargers? Wait till they allow EVERYONE to plug into them!
We shall see
California barely has a 2-4 Tesla stations.
Along with opening up the Specs is that auto manufacturers will have to support the charging software standards.
If they don't know how to abstract their software they should go back to school.
My friend bought an EV six months ago. He sold it last week. He hated it. He said that it complicated his life and his insurance went through the roof.
Because it's cost a lot just to repair them from a collision.
This feature is the only thing I like about TESLA, it's it vast charging network and how robust and efficient it is. Wonder if the NACS plug will be available as a kit for Gas to EV conversion.
It is already... Its open patent and i Believe you can contact tesla to buy it.
Im hoping we dont focus entirely on DC. quality AC is easier, cheaper, and convenient to be placed around metropolitan areas. I want to see more NACS AC charging as well as DC fast charging.
You will, and we won't focus entirely on DC. One thing about us that we try to balance (but not always successfully) is that 80% of people charge exclusively at home or work. They never visit a DCFC. So it's important to speak to to the lived experience of the majority of owners.
But we also have to cover the fact that public charging isn't good. So pressure needs to be kept on public charging companies (and talk about the ones who are doing well) because that's important for long-term EV use but also we acknowledge we're over-indexing on coverage of it right now.
Glad I have to wait for the 2025 Blazer S/S EV which will have NACS and hopefully have their software problems repaired! Will stay with my 2020 Bolt which works perfectly but is a bit small! 2013 Ford Focus EV 1st then traded to the 2020 Bolt EV and will never buy a gas car again!
Reliability is going to be on the other manufacturers side to make their car charge on Tesla chargers.
Err, only in the US folks. There's a world of CSS out there which has been standardised in Europe for example. The Tesla inspired NACS is of course much more elegant and frankly nicer to use as well but it's not coming this side of the pond any time soon. I do feel rather sorry for folks who find power connectors life changing, better, maybe, life changing? Really?
yup EU Teslas come with both NACS and CCS ports
Tesla has chargers port as all American gas cars
NACS Will be in EVERY EV Soon *in AMerica
That won't slow the wait times at crowded Tesla Fast Chargers at all! This is kind of like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. What a novel idea!
tesla should have been forced to use CCS in the US like Europe. All euro cars use CCS and their charger networks are much better. CCS can also charge up to 350kw, i don't think the v4 NACS has demonstrated over 250kw.
Which car charges at 350kW? The chargers are rated at 350kW but it does not mean the power it actually delivers is 350kW. There are no V4s yet. Tesla SC currently only charge Tesla cars, which are not on an 800V architecture.
I am glad to see it is getting possible to charge any car at any charging station. This had to happen.
The News last week of people trying to charge their Tesla's when it's -20 with people in line waiting to charge. I can't imagine how much longer the lines and wait times will be for ALL EV owners, NOT just Tesla for their once PROPRIETARY "Fast Chargers" LMAO! Another Last ditch effort to keep holding up another Edsel.
@@henryhill3778 EVs really don't impress me. They have a long way to go before I will want one.
A good way for Tesla to grab you buy the shorts. Wait until they charge whatever they want at their charging stations. Like Apple changing incompatible upgrades every 6 months.
Absolutely right. Irt seems that very few understand that NACS is not in their best interests and is a way of making them very dependent on their car manufacturer. Just think of the outcry if you had to register an account and only use specified petrol stations controlled by a small cartel.
Unlike apple that loves totally changing product every 12 months, just not seeing need to reinvent from tesla. Also tesla does sell their chargers to 3rd parties that want to put them in their own charging network. BP annonced a $100million dollar deal to purchase tesla chargers and will begin deploying them at their locations and other places in 2024
The NACS/J3400 will be on every public charger (EVgo, Electrify America, etc).
Nobody is forcing anyone to use a Supercharger. That is like saying Wait for Exxon to charge whatever they want for gas, when Shell is right across the street. How do you not understand how market competition works?
When they get all the kinks resolved this will be the smartest move the EV industry has made.
Actually the dumbest. Users are tied to one or two suppliers. They need accounts. It is a cosy cartel with no room for outside suppliers who can compete on price. NACS is overengineered and obsolete. In Europe we have CCS and contactless payment, just like most small payments are made nowadays.
@@rogerphelps9939 Funny, all gas pumps are the same size so when a customer pulls up with any model or make of car they don't have to find a different pump size or configuration to get gas... that doesn't work for you?... is there a gas pump cartel?
That is my point. There is no petrol pump cartel but there certainly is a NACS cartel. CCS requires nothing apart from the EVSE, not some silly accounting nonsense. Anyone can set up as a CCS charging provider. Not so with NACS.@@ctclardy
Kind of like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
It'd be nice of industries would agree on a standard from the beginning. Of course they never learn from history so they continue repeating the same mistake.
USB is a perfect example. In spite of the name, they chose to include many different connector formats, most requiring three attempts to insert correctly. When they finally settled on one connector that fits better, is reversible, and performs better they still managed to screw it up by keeping USB A and not having every port and cable adhere to a single USB-C standard.
NACS not going to charge the car the same because the CCS charging stations are plagued with problems. It's the responsibility of the other car makers to make sure their cars aren't buggy so they can properly communicate with NACS stations and Superchargers.
The questionable reliability will be solved, but even now it's a poor argument in favor of breathing toxic fumes and spilling caustic fuel while standing in a puddle of oil.
Consider tweaking your opening statement to exclude Tesla owners, as this may be an L due to longer lines.
I am going back to the horse and buggy.
Something which works at -20... Oh Wait... they're coming out with an upgrade NEXT year...
Nice but still not getting an EV -- yet. Cannot afford the EV and the increased auto insurance. Of course, I have to upgrade my home electrical panel for a level 2 charger and that's another expense I'm not ready for (especially as I will NEVER buy a Tesla) in addition to many of the EV no longer eligible for the $7500 tax rebate (looking at you Hyundai).
I believe in Colorado DC fast charger locations with CCS connectors out number Tesla Supercharger locations. Tesla has more actual plugs overall but they’re not spread around as much as CCS.
I think you are correct for Colorado. It's a strange anomaly
the same bright mind as the apple had. different charging connectors to create own customers depending on it
Why is it such a difficult concept? We have been charging phones and laptops for decades at this point, they've already worked out the kinks and efficiency issues. Why can't the ev industry just learn from that?
Kind of like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
This sucks for Nissan LEAF owners who have CHAdeMO SC charger jack. There are no adapter, not compatible. CCS I think is superior as it jives with LEVEL 2 J1772.
We’re not switching. We’re getting adapters. No non-teslas will come with NACS until 2025.
You should have mentioned that non-Tesla vehicles will not have access to all Tesla superchargers.
J3400 has already been done.
The NACS connector on the station side is simplicity itself, it is sealed and has no mechanical failure point. J1772 may have been validated for 10000+ insertions, but I can't agree on CCS-A having that level of rigor for its life. Both J1772 and CCS have mechanical moving parts that can be physically broken easily to alter functionality such as locking capability. CCS even has motors involved in safety locking that can break on the charger side. NACS connector has grooves in it so the mechanical obligation to lock the connector resides in the car, not the station. This plays a significant role in station reliability.
Also, the stations with the NACS connector uses the software of the CCS standard. The magic dock chargers provide a petri dish of potential edge cases for Tesla to analyze well in advance of opening the broader supercharger network to charging with self-supplied adapters.
Charging is all fun at these stations until it rains and floods where you have to get outside and plug in. I know this because I had to do it a few times and got fed up and sold my stupid Tesla. I'm done. They need to mandate overhead roof structures for all EV charging stations
When is soon? 2030?
This year.
If only Sam actually knew what he was talking about. 😢
Exactly.... "I'm from the Government, and I'm here to help..."
They probably got the Idea from an old technology which actually already works, like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
I don’t know about the US but here in Europe Tesla just added a CCS cable to its chargers. Good job, well done. 😊
It means Tesla owners are about to be really pissed off when they have to wait hours on end behind Chevy's Hyundai's Kias and Mercedes EV's to charge.
Tesla should buy Electrify America and end the poor reliability issue and Volkswagen should give the money to Tesla to expand the numbers at each EA location. Makes sense to me!
TESLA is definitely SMART and they're efficient. When you learn more about NACS and CCS, you realize that NACS was brilliantly designed.
AC and DC charging on one plug.
Autopay during Plug-in.
DC fast/supercharging on one plug.
Currently, I use a Step2 LECTRON v-box at home to charge my Cadillac Lyriq AWD Lux 3.
IT's set for 40 AMPS instead of 48 AMPS so it's a little slow but it charges while I sleep.
I won't feel comfortable going on very long range drives till TESLA opens up the supercharger network to CCS cars.
I want to be able to charge simply by plugging the car in - with automatic communication and I want DC fast charging to be available and WORKING everywhere I go.
It may well be a good design, and hopefully this will work out, but I have my suspicions that in the US, where money rules over common sense (or the common good), Tesla will game the system and make it slightly easier for Tesla owners / subscribers to rapid charge now they have such a dominant hold over the US EV market. They wouldn't be doing this unless they have a long-term plan that puts them ahead of the competition, or increases their profits. However, public charging networks should be regulated like any other public utility. No one company should be able to dominate infrastructure build, design, and maintenance like Tesla has been able to do in the USA. It will not end well.
... AND Tesla really jack up the price per KWh for any non-Tesla vehicles using nacs.
@@decimal1815 Already doing that Tesla owner ~0.30 per KWh, Ford/GM ~0.60 per KWh which can end up costing more than the MPG equivalent for gasoline!
It means Tesla Superchargers will become crowded with long wait times just to charge.
Finally someone who's thinking ahead. And LONG wait times at -20 at Fast Chargers will get shorter? Must be the Gov't involved in that Brain fart.
Kind of like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
Maybe, but if every charging station, from every charging network has the same plug, there shouldn't be a line at Tesla & empty EA chargers next door
@@BEW419 Um no…Everyone wants to use the Tesla chargers because they are faster. If I bought a Tesla and had to wait in line for Kia’s and Hyundais I’d be quite upset.
Other car makers have no know how- in house- just relying on suppliers- more troubles come to blame Tesla system
Reliability.
NOT a "Tesla" problem.
.
"When other manufacturers start using the system" its going to become immediately apparent if theres an issue with one particular model, range, or manufacturer group.
.
The pressure must be on THAT manufacturer to match the standard (which works!) rather than the standard to be adjusted to match thr idiosyncrasies of that manufacturer.
.
(hence the designation "Standard"?)
If there are reliability issues.. that only benefits Tesla, so it's in their interest to have reliability issues with non-Tesla Evs charging at their stations.. doesn't sound like a good situation to me, but hey it's the USA where money talks and common sense died long ago!
5:00 Tesla has an interest in ensuring that non-Tesla vehicles can reliably charge at their super chargers and NACS superchargers. I'll confidently wager that Tesla, as a talented software-driven company, will figure out the UIA from it's end, and work effectively with non-Tesla OEM's to ensure that their software reliably interfaces with the Tesla software and hardware. Nothing-burger of an issue...unless you're a traumatized CCS user carrying bad ju-ju with you.
Tesla may have a better populated charging network, and this is likely an opportunity Elon grabbed/planned for to make his true fortune off ev’s. However, will his ego allow for others’ ability to improve on his design now that all eyes are focused on nacs?
In 10 years EV’s have come along way. Chinese EV’s are the real leader with their CATL batteries, the largest manufacturer on the world. USA forgot to build battery factories and use expensive 3rd party batteries from Korea and China. EV’s will be faster and cheaper than gas once USA build battery factories
tesla had always allowed the nacs to be used in other manufacturers. Its the other guys who wanted to not use it and try the BS ccs and other crap. In addition chargepoint and evgo and electrify america were garbage at making charging stations.
Even though theoretically perhaps J1772 might be designed to be more robust, in reality, the top latch frequently breaks way earlier than Tesla's locking mechanism, which is a pin inside the port (much like Type 2 used in Europe). The lighter connector also puts much less stress on the charge port and connector.
Why are so many Europeans so angry in the comments?
Its obvious the title wasn't intended to mean every EV worldwide. Just for the intended North American audience. Seriously, should all North Americans go troll every EV video posted from Europe and comment "Nu-uh, not where i live, you're lying" 🙄
NACS cars won't be on EU roads, just like CCS2 won't be on US roads. This is just the NA version of how the EU forced Apple to USB-C.
Also, while the video focuses on Tesla owned & operated charging stations; with this change NACS/J3400 connectors will be on EVERY DC fast charger in the US. This isn't "Musk has a monopoly" its the opposite. This will allow ANY EV to charge on ANY network.
If you're an EV hater or a US hater, hate away... But getting everyone on one standard in the US is a major step in the right direction.
Since other (if not all) EVs are going to use Tesla chargers, and Tesla will probably be making $ by licensing this tech, and in the same time, taking away use to Tesla owners, then Tesla should allow Tesla owners to use their chargers for free. 😊
will you be able to charge an EV with a portable generator?
Can my Gas car run on diesel?
Theres an Australian Tesla supercharger out in the desert that uses a diesel generator
A Petrol Generator in your Frunk.
In Europe, the standard is CSS and Tesla have adapted their V4 chargers to accommodate this across all the countries.
Ah, yes.... Tesla copied apple and the CCS copied Nokia when designing the charging handles. One went for reliability, ease of use, build cost, and power supply. The other went to a committee of Gov engineers designed to limit EV sales, to be hard to build, bulky, heavy, and easy to break with expensive repairs regularly required.
Oh I'm all EXCITED... When it's -20 I don't think this will gain me ANYTHING! Same Range degradation, but NOW we'll ALL be lined up waiting for ppl to get done charging!
Takes me 3 minutes to "Recharge" my ICE vehicle for another 500 miles... Now THAT"S "Robust"!
Not being funny but if you're claiming this is 'soon' maybe the thing you should be trying to explain is what that means e.g. "in a short time ". None of this is happening all that soon.
We’ll see non Tesla’s with J3400 connectors mid year-ish assuming the first automakers that go with it stick to their schedule. That’s soon to us.
You mean like the promise of the Cybertruck in 2020, yet to be released?
If Elon were in charge of the rollout, we'd agree. He's not.
You wont see any of these roll of of the assembly line until spring 2026. I would not call that soon .
Tesla supercharger reliability won't go down for Tesla owners.
If I owned a Tesla, paid that much, now EVERYONE can use it? Like Lowering the price of new Tesla's so my Resale DROPS!
Kind of like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. Quite a novel idea!
Why can’t it be a world standard or at least a European standard as well..?
What I never understood is why we have a cord at all?
Why not have a base which you drive upon and the car is plugged in automatically. No need to get out of your car. Just get it close and push a button and the car drives up on the pad and plugs in. You then use the cars infotainment system to pay for everything eliminating most software issues with current charging stations.
My hope is the next standardized corded step after this one will be base charging working it way into peoples minds.
You need to get on that engineering crew! This way they can come up with novel ideas like being able to fill your car up in 3 minutes at the gas pump. What a novel idea!
@@henryhill3778 The engineering is the easy part. I am sure several grad student thesis could demonstrate a very robust system. But it will not happen unless the policy changes. Maybe someone could get rich making a home or company "kit" that moved the plug down inside the fender and pointed it at the ground so it could plug into the pad.
The issue is policy and having people admit that there is a better system currently available then manually plugging the car in.
Again, America goes with their own standard, different to the rest of the world.
The rest of the world has gone with CCS type 2, which solves all the problems of CCS (type 1), and solves a few of the problems of Teslas own design, plus keeps backward compatibility, even Teslas come with this as standard in much of the rest of the world.
But in the good old US of A, because Tesla got the charging network out there first, everyone else has to comply with their ‘standard’, like VHS versus Beta, NTSC versus PAL, 110V versus 240V, America has to deal with a lesser final product because … reasons …
The rest of the world uses various standards.
Once this happens, I will be dumping my Tesla in favor of a better EV. Tesla is hurting themselves with this
And now the Tesla supercharger stations will be crowded with non-Teslas. There will be long wait times.
Do you know not all Tesla chargers are going to be available for everyone? A whole bunch are going to be still Tesla exclusive.
J3400 is great. Can't wait to get the adapter from Volvo.
Just be prepared to pay twice what Tesla owners pay per KWh
@@mpwaterhouse why? That is not the case now. I already charge my Volvo and e-Golf at superchargers.
@@barryw9473 .. and Tesla charges you less than 25 cents per KWh? If so I retract.
Not every EV, only in North America The rest of the world does not even know what NACS is
Wow, imagine that. The NORTH AMERICAN charging standard is only in NORTH AMERICA ,🤯
@@BEW419Yes. It won't be in every EV like the title says.
The title of this video is misleading. The adopted standard in many parts of the World is CCS. Unlike the US, Europe (and elsewhere) uses the upgraded CCS2 standard. As far as I am aware, whereas CCS is an international IEC standard, NACS is not. That means whatever Mr Musk says, goes - the standard is whatever he says it is - it’s a proprietary standard which is only used in the US. I’m sure that Musk will be rubbing his hands with glee at the thought of all that licensing money and power to change whatever he wants, whenever he wants. Not the smartest of routes to take IMHO.
Tesla gave up their rights to the NACS, in the video he explains how it is becoming the J3400 standard. There's no licensing, or control retained.
Tesla chargers now have the opportunity to sell electricity to other drivers.
Tesla drivers will have the opportunity to charge on other charging networks without adapters.
Great points on NACS adoption but one key driver of QoL besides hardware, and the glaring issue is software. Not software on the supercharger side, but software on every non-Tesla car. Frankly no software interface compares to the slick smooth and minimalist interface found on Teslas, including legacy luxury car companies. Just the act of navigating while seamlessly integrating EV stops is clunky in all but the Tesla interface. The advantages of its vertical integration is clear. Other companies have a lot of catching up to do, and the software nearly always takes a back seat. Seeing 8-bit or a dated looking interface on a touch screen is just embarrassing.
With CCS and contactless no such software is needed. You just swipe your card on the charger screen (CCS does have proper interactive chargers) and that is it. Foolproof and anybody can set up a charger network, sticking two fingers up to Tesla, and compete on price. NACS is a disaster.