The MCU Shows ARE NOT Television...
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 23 มิ.ย. 2022
- Marvel TV Shows have been coming out on Disney Plus for awhile now, but something about the MCU television projects doesn't quite feel right. This video essay examines Marvel's Disney plus shows like Wandavision, MoonKnight, and Hawkeye, in order to better understand why the streaming service shows feel so strange, and how they can better compliment Marvel's big screen pictures going forward.
Marvel is known for it's amazing cinematic universe, but now that they have added this new medium of television, the MCU is expanding at a rate we haven't seen before. Character's like Scarlett Witch, Kate Bishop, Moon Knight, and Hawkeye are all starring in their own shows, but how do they compare to the MCU movies? In this video essay, we'll examine the strengths and weaknesses of TV as a medium, and how Marvel can better utilize Television as a compliment to the Marvel Cinematic Universe.
Written & Edited ------------- Dylan Gregory @TheWritersBlockOfficial
Music by ------------------------ Karl Casey @WhiteBatAudio
#marvelvideessay #screenwriting #videoessay #marvel #marveltv #mcu #wandavision #disneyplus #howtowrite #superhero #moonknight #tvwriting #howmarvelwritesatvshow - ภาพยนตร์และแอนิเมชัน
Have you been enjoying the MCU Disney Plus Shows? Which character should get their own show next??? Can't wait to discuss with all of you!
I think in this more experimental phase we'll get more interesting powers and characters. Kit harington becoming the black knight has me really excited
Moon Knight just felt disappointing. Not terrible, but as a Moon Knight I expected so much more from the show. But Oscar Isaac’s performance as Marc Spector/Steven Grant/Jake Lockley legendary and I wouldn’t ask for another actor to play him.
For me episodes 1,2, and 5 were by far the best because they focus in on marc and Stephen
You lost me when you said you actually enjoyed every Disney+ series. 🤦🏻♂️
People enjoy different things. I can see the flaws in a product but still have a positive experience with it
Makes so much sense! Wandavision had enough to keep interest. No other show kept us so caught up. They all have a few episodes that feel like filler.
The filler is usually the 4th Episode and first half of the 5th
But the filler honestly has the most substance. I dont care about the plot I care about character. Thats why those episodes work the best. Just let interesting characters talk to each other
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial but it happens in a terrible formula.
In the first three episodes, the characters are discovering their powers and using them. Then during the 4th, it's a filler full of monolgue.
Then Episode 5 sets up the "big bad"
Episode 6 is when they have a big CGI fight
Totally get what you're saying. But thats what I mean. The other episodes/the formula is the main problem. The shoe itself should be more focused on character growth than large scale conflicts.
For me Wandavision was the most boring and the writing was terrible.
The strange thing about most of the shows is that they look like high-caliber shows visually, but when it comes to everything else (writing, acting) they feel more like middle-of-the-road network television. Not great or particularly easy to recommend even, but hard to hate on and generally are good enough to have fandoms.
Totally agree, I feel like Disney/Marvel is focusing on literally everything else besides good writing. Pointless over-the-top CGI fights at the end of movies/shows (looking at you Shang-Chi and Moon Knight), unnecessary cameos for cheap hype (*cough* *cough* Multiverse of Madness), new characters that feel more like diversity trophies Disney can put up on their mantle and pat themselves on the back for being "inclusive". And unfortunately, since the fan-base is so large, they can keep doing this with no incentive to change so long as they keep making money.
@@jj22445 bruh
@@jacktheflash8478 bro
Sooo, you haven’t watched any of them. Because to say they’re like middle-of-the-road network television in terms of writing and acting is a bald faced lie.
@@jj22445 That’s not even sort of what it feels like.
Especially since a grand total of none of the shows have any fights that are either pointless or over the top CGI.
Nor are there any unnecessary cameos for cheap hype, or even any cameos at all(You also make it clear you didn’t bother to watch Multiverse of Madness, since it also didn’t have this).
And your “diversity trophies” bs makes you look just a tad bit racist.
8 is a decent length and 13 can be the maximum. 6 is like dangerously low.
Especially because the second act should be twice as long as acts one or 3. 6 episodes tend to have strong beginning and ends but underdevoloped middles
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial yea they rush towards the finale to tie up quickly rather than allowing it to breathe. I really hope they learn their lesson because 6 episodes for secret invasion and a potential wolverine show is a recipe for disaster. With the new daredevil show from disney plus coming, I really hope they fix this issue as soon as possible. Great video and thank you for pointing out the flaws amazingly. Hope marvel sees this video and takes notes.
It also depends on episode length. The perfect amount for a series in my opinion is eight hours so 8 one hour long episodes, 12 forty minute episodes, and 24 twenty minute episodes work great
Better Call Saul 10, Arcane 9, The Boys 8, House of the Dragon 10, Dexter 12/10
Yes. That is the sweet spot
Agreed. Allows you too have a 2 ep act 1. 4 ep act 2. 2 ep act 3. Marvels main issue is the accelerated second act. It needs to be longer than your other two acts
Moon Knight and WandaVision have been the only two I felt have been great TV shows.
They're the most optimized for their respective lengths. A lot of the other shows have really strong episodes but feel inconsistent as a season of tv
Loki and Moon Knight are my top two, but I feel Loki and WandaVision handle the series format the best personally.
Moon Knight sucked ass. Would've been infinitely better as a movie, but not even traditional kiddy MCU movie, but something along the lines of Matt Reeves' The Batman
To me anyway. If you liked Disney's Moon Knight, lucky you
Yep and Loki. That’s it.
It also says a lot when a tv show is watchable multiple times after you’ve watched it once. The only shows I’ve been able to go back and watch more than once where Scarlet Witch and Moon Knight. The others I only watched once and never looked back on. I can’t say the same for the Netflix shows with the exception of iron fist I’ve gone back and was able to watch them multiple times for fun but with these I can’t.
Yeah. I think WandaVision and Moon Knight both work great as standalone shows. The others are more of "Chapters" in the MCU, so they struggle as individual stories. The netflix shows lacked meaningful mcu connections, but also were FORCED to stand on their own as a result.
Great analysis
Daredevil season 1 and 2 are miles ahead of literally everything else in the mcu...
Then the problem is you, because if you can’t, your taste is shiiit
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial But they don’t. How the hell do The Falcon and the Winter Soldier, Loki, Ms Marvel or Hawkeye “struggle as individual stories?
@@RM-cn8pw just looking at your comments I can see you are a mcu shill that will be contrarian to any and all criticisms 😂 give it a rest no one is paying you any mind
Shield and Daredevil will always be the best Marvel shows for me (with a shout out to Agent Carter and Defenders) they truly feel like TV shows with the “individual episode” feel but also “overarching plot” feel with amazing character development. However, I do really like a lot of the Marvel shows and this video summed up my feelings for them perfectly
A) glad I could help put peoples thoughts into a video
B) yeah I do miss the classic TV feel of those older shows. Aside from the lack of connection. They were great
@hfc I cannot tell you how much I love the framework! Well it’s sort of a love/hate relationship but I think it’s brilliant. I like what they do with the “what if” idea.
What's interesting about this is that actual episodes in these shows are so rare that when they happen, they feel jarring and out of place. Examples are Loki's Oh No We're Stuck On A Planet episode, Moon Knight's We Just Might Be Dead episode, and Ms. Marvel's History Lesson episode.
Thats a really great point. Its also why those episodes were consistently my favorite. They're telling a contained story with the characters i love. Rather than the large scale conflicts that wind up feeling kinda filler. Just let me watch marvel characters build a boat and flirt with their bros sister. I cant possibly imagine a character that wouldn't work for...
?
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial a lot of characters wouldn’t do either of those things
I dont know how to break this to you, but I didn't mean that more characters should literally do those 2 things...
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial oops my bad sorry about that
This is why Mandalorian and WandaVision are still the most beloved Disney+ series to date. They perfectly blend the cinematic and episodic aspects.
So true!
Hey to be fair, Agents of Shield despite being “family friendly”, got pretty dark in the later seasons. It’s just those first few episodes really, but it does suck that it basically got shafted.
was thinking the same thing lmao
AoS had the problem of being far too episodic and cliched in the beginning, more specifically in Season 1. But once it’s tie-in with Winter Soldier happened, that’s when it became more interesting.
@@tjjordan4207 True. Although for me, I didn’t mind most of the early episodes.
The shows mostly feel like serials, where the end is a “To be continued” type of thing. It just feels like a drawn out story instead of…a tv show.
My other problem is that the medium of tv is better suited to smaller stories since it’s a lower budget medium, yet most of these shows still end with the usual high stakes. What’s the point of choosing to watch Moon Knight over an Avengers movie if the climax of both is the same scope?
Exactly. By narrowing the scope you actually have a much higher impact
I loved Moon Knight. BUT MANNNNN, I totally would want season 2 to just not be so worried of the Batman comparisons so that we can get some more weekly street level superhero action that people want Moon Knight to be about. Plus from the cheaper street level setting, we can have more episodes explore our characters, esp the moon system
Agreed
This is great. You are beyond criminally underrated. Keep up the good work.
Oh my Goodness! This really has made my day!! Thank you so much for the kind words. I'm new to TH-cam, but I'm hoping to grow steadily and improve my content along the way. I just want to share a postive but thoughtful view on media and pop culture. Even small words of support like this reaffirm my passion for the work!
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial You deserve it! Best wishes for the future. 😊
So far, the Disney+ shows make me wish it wasn't a thing. They make these heros look corny. Same with Star Wars. These characters need the big screen treatment to be great.
Daredevil?
Loki should have been a movie and also be the first in the multiverse saga, would have been a perfect way to start it off
Yeah loki is a tough one. It feel right in the middle of show and movie so I don't know which would ultimately be better. But I know what you mean
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial definitely a lot of room to cut out stuff, they probably could shorten down the episode where they just walk the entire time, also get rid of the whole time keeper stuff and just jump straight to One Above All
@@jonahhammond1360 Getting rid of the Time Keeper stuff would undermine the whole plot. It's meant to be "Wizard of Oz" esque and the whole series is built around the "man behind the man trope". If you change that, then you have a fundamentally different concept and it may just end up undermining the person they seem to be banking on as they're next big Villian. I do agree the Lamentis stuff could be shortened tho.
The concept of television has changed a bit since the introduction of the streaming services. We still need episodes to feel distinct, and preferrably for each to have its own conflict. But we have also moved away from the formulaic procedural dramas which have to go through all the beats per each episode. We don't need every regular cast member to have their own arc in every episode. Now we can have episode 5 be specifically about character A, and episode 6 without their appearance, if that serves the overreaching arc the best. The trap in which television shows can fall into is that each episode has tje exact same level of intensity. For example, CWs The Flash or Batwoman had the similar amount of climax in every episode, which made the whole "building towards something" part feel like it's flatlining. Without quieter moments, the climaxes don't pop-up as much. If the character nearly dies in every episode, you get numb to the same level of threat soon. The finale of the series still has to feel like an upgrade, which some of these CW shows didn't do with the optimal level of build-up. MCU shows do tend to go in the opposite direction, with some of the middle episodes feeling like padding and drawing-out the same story arc for too long. They need side-stories in between. Some of my favorite streaming series are the ones that manage to balance out the two: The Boys, Hannibal, Doom Patrol, Daredevil, ect. There each episode feel like it matters without necessarily circling around the same intensity and plot points per episode.
What’s not quite right is the mediocre writing, characterization inconsistencies, lackluster plot, fluctuating morality and questionable narratives and agendas
I need reasonable examples for that.
I don’t really get any of that when watching. They’re all pretty good and solid
Yeah. People just like to hate on marvel now. Like the shows are perfect, but they're all competently made and have some heart at the very least
I agree in a way. I wish Marvel had less of all of the above. They're largely mediocre. That's not to say they're bad, that's not what mediocre means. But they have gone downhill quite a bit. Beginning noticeably with Spiderman Homecoming. The kid comes homes from a traumatic event like he just returned from Disneyland and that's never addressed in the film. I know some people don't agree and that's okay. It's just an opinion. But I will say Agents of Shield is better than Loki and Doctor Strange is better than MOM. The amount of mediocre stuff they're producing is larger than the quality stuff and that disheartens some people a bit.
It's okay to criticize the stuff you like. It's also okay that people criticize the stuff you like. As long as you're not mean and persistent about it, it's reasonable. Personally, I like it because it allows us to swap ideas and viewpoints.
Normies aren't gonna pick up on this man lol
It’s worth noting that the Netflix shows (back when they were on Netflix) for the most part managed to avoid the problem that you described in this video for the simple reason that they weren’t focused above all else on elevating the connection to the movies.
That's a good point. Felt like they mattered without each being a huge world ending threat each series.
@@DavidMartinez-ce3lp Exactly
Amazon, HBO etc. also have series that is in reality only one long movie split up in parts. Jack Reacher, The Boys, The Peacemaker and a long list of others.
If you merged all episodes seamlessly, you would never notice that they were actually a TV Series.
Which is a perfectly acceptable way to go, it's just tricky to pull off because you have to be very careful about pacing throughout the series. I still need to check out Peacemaker. I loved John Cena in THE Suicide Squad!
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Yeah, but at least they aren't forced to make extra filler scenes and filler episodes like they had to do on TV as 45 mins were required on episode.
I think "24 series" were among the first to ever split up a 20 hour movie. Anyways. you should watch Peacemaker ASAP. Lovely series. :)
Bro wtf? The Boys works perfectly as a TV series?
To what comment is this directed at?
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial the original comment stating the boys is just one movie stretched out.
I don’t doubt it could make for a good movie series if done right. But I think it’s way more compelling as a show personally. It’s formatted greatly for television, allowing the character drama to slowly rise up and the action to get more and more intense as we go along. Not to mention the very serialised source material it’s based on.
Some anime like Dragon Ball and One Piece has this problem. Dragon Ball Z has the most ridiculous case of five minutes of Planet Namek's destruction spanning TEN EPISODES! Each episode is half hour long, so it didn't take five minutes for Namek to blow up, it took FIVE HOURS!
Great video on exolaining the flaws and positives of marvel's tv line up! Hinestly 6 episodes isnt a bad amount of time to tell a story but i think how their handling it along with what you said in the way that they care more about being cinematic then leaving more room for the smaller and more personal aspects of these shows can defeinetly hurt these shows.
Additionally, youre second act should be twice as long as your first and third. Because of this, the six episode series end up having rushed middles.
I think also acknowledging these are more mini series then ‘shows’ sets a proper expectation. Netflix made actual ‘TV Series’ when they were making the Marvel shows as their goal was to make self contained shows that would go on multiple seasons. The Disney plus series are basically movie ‘bonus content’.
Yeah. They're still figuring out what format works best
Totally agree. On top of it, they are trying to tie these shows into the larger story of the MCU. There's so much set up for future events, that the story you're watching now isn't very satisfying. I like the connectivity, but I wish it was a little looser so that the individual shows and movies could breathe on their own more.
And I think a big part of it is that we don't know much about the direction of this next phase, so its hard to tell if these shows are doing a good job setting up the future or not
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Yeah, and I worry that the weight of it all might be too much to bear.
Moon Knight seems like a step in that direction.
I agree. Really liked it
This channel is amazing, I hope to see it blow up.
I really appreciate it! Even just having one or two people really enjoy the content is more than enough to keep me going! Glad there are people the channel can grow and evolve with
Phase 4 feels like side missions after the main video game is over. Or the last chapters in LOTR where you find out where the characters end up after the war is won.
Totally get that. And thats not gonna be for everyone. I personally love all 7000 endings in return of the king, but I dont begrudge anyone who doesn't
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Oh I like LOTR - it just feels like phase 4 is anticlimactic after Endgame.
I get that
Why are you more worried about the CGI and fight choreography than the stories? The writing quality of a vast, vast majority of these shows has been atrocious and definitely not up to par with previous phases of the MCU, where things that happened actually mattered and affected change in the situations and characters involved-stuff that now just seems to happen off-screen. Compared to the movies, the heroes in the D+ shows have undergone less internal conflict, faced fewer consequences for choices that should be important and life-changing for them and those around them, and are developed so very little that they’re virtually the same people at the end as they were at the beginning making them come off as one-dimensional by the end. Stories should be about cause and effect, where what happens in one scene impacts what happens next-not just sequences of mundane exposition between flashy action set pieces. Show don’t tell!!
It’s pretty hilarious your description of the Disney+ shows pretty perfectly describes an anime filler arc lmao
Haha true
Yes, exactly! Why care about what happens in these shows? There's no real impact. No incentive to keep watching. I could watch the first Thor movie a dozen times( theoretically) while I struggle to even get through the first episode of Loki. Why trudge through stretched-out material when I can just wait until it's all out and read a summary online?
Except you’re lying. Because the writing quality for literally zero of these shows has been anything resembling atrocious. It’s been nothing but great.
“and definitely not up to par with previous phases of the MCU, where things that happened actually mattered and affected change in the situations and characters involved”
That’s also the case in the shows though. The things that happen in them literally DO actually matter and do nothing but affect change in the situations and characters involved. Like, that’s just a fact.
“stuff that now just seems to happen off-screen.”
Then you haven’t been watching, because none of that has happened off-screen at all.
“Compared to the movies, the heroes in the D+ shows have undergone less internal conflict,”
Then you haven’t watched any of said shows, because this is a bald faced lie. They’ve arguably undergone more internal conflict than the movies.
“faced fewer consequences for choices that should be important and life-changing for them and those around them,”
Once again, this is an ENORMOUS lie.
“and are developed so very little that they’re virtually the same people at the end as they were at the beginning making them come off as one-dimensional by the end.”
You’re not even pretending you’ve watched these shows at this point. You ignoring how much they’ve developed doesn’t make it to where they’ve “developed so little.” You have not watched WandaVision if you think Wanda is the same at the end as she is at the start. You have not watched TFATWS if you think Sam and Bucky are the same at the end as they are at the start. You have not watched Loki if you think he ends the show the same way he started it.
You know how to do nothing but lie.
“Stories should be about cause and effect,”
They are. But that means dick when you the viewer choose to ignore it.
“where what happens in one scene impacts what happened next”
Which it does. This is the case in every single one of the shows.
“not just sequences of mundane expiation” Which none of the shows have had. “between flashy action set pieces.” That’s literally contradictory to your previous lie.
“Show don’t tell!”
They DO show, dumbass. You simply need to do this thing called WATCH.
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Not even the slightest bit true, since nothing he’s said has been honest or factual.
WandaVision works fine with the Week To Week release, even if I didn't like the show overall that much.
Falcon and Winter Soldier is more of a movie than a show
The same goes for Loki, but it also sorta works episodically I guess?
What If...? is really just a mess if you wanna view it from this angle
Hawkeye works as a TV show in my opinion
Moon Knight works wonderfully when binged in a movie-like form
Ms. Marvel... not too sure on that one yet
Solid evaluations!
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial I always have writers block unless I'm writing something on a place like TH-cam. I should look into that.
I personally believe that What If...? is the only one that works as a series. I'd have liked everything else in movie form. Not sure about WandaVision.. I just didn't really like it.
I agree with this a lot. Loki has a lot of weird pacing that seems halfway movie halfway TV show. Honestly, falcon and winter soldier should've swapped with eternals, giving eternals more time to have character and backstop than the movie could provide
I'm trying to remember which came first, the tv mini-series or the limited series in comics. It's interesting that both of those media evolved through the same century. Comic books were traditionally beneath television much as the movies in turn stayed over tv in the pecking order. If the comic book audience is smallest, then the audience who purchase a limited series in the format of single issues is a fraction of a fraction. The market by this time is surely adapted to reprints. Most fans will wait for the limited series to be collected in a trade paperback. It takes an artist some time to finish a big page count. Supporting a work with a monthly subscription shows devotion to the nature of the medium. Trade paperbacks are commonly held to be synonymous with graphic novels. The first graphic novels, however, were like the first movies -- not dependent on a larger franchise. It is a bit ironic that intellectual property crossovers have already risen up from the magazine rack to rule king cinema.
Thats super interesting. I also think the limited series/run works best in comic form given the nature of the medium
I have not watched the Wandavision show, but it looks like that Agatha woman is doing that Funny Games thing where the villain, Agatha, breaks the 4th wall by looking at the screen or audience, just like one of the two serial killers from Funny Games.
Lol Agatha wasn't the villain it was all Wanda Maximoff she did horrible things to the people in that town and yet she never apologized
This was very well said. I haven't been watching any of the MCU shows. I did watch a little of Agents of Shield when it was new, but that was it.
Thank you!
If you ever watched the TV show charmed, then you maybe would think that Marvel really don't know what they are doing for television shows. The Wanda Vision show had Falcon a the Winter Soldier support to draw in audience for television viewing on Disney Plus. But they dropped hard after that. They rushed Little Miss Marvel Disney plus television show. That would have been groundbreaking for Young avengers or New avengers to all have their own television show on Disney Plus, and go to the big screen from there. Marvel looks as if they lost the battle with Thanos and the infinity saga for the timeline and won't admit it. You know how stubborn adults can be.
Nicely done!
Wow dude you are explaining it perfectly. In my opinion she hulk is the first Disney plus marvel show that is actually resonating with me as a tv show, I’ve already rewatched the first couple episodes more than twice, which can’t be said about the other shows.
Yeah. She Hulk and Wandavision are the two I have enjoyed watching week to week personally. I LOVED Moon Knight but I think I would have liked it better binging it all at once. I'm hoping more of their projects on Disney Plus lean into the style of She-Hulk. It feels fun and low stakes which I like from a tv show. I prefer the world ending doomsday plots to be kept in the realm of the big screen.
Also thank you for leaving a positive comment! Really appreciate! Means a lot!
idk for me, the mcu tv shows feel like I’m doing a side quest while waiting for the main storyline quest to come 😬
A great analogy. I think the big thing is recognizing that you don't have to play All the side quests. But its tough cause we've been conditioned to watch EVERY SINGLE THING
I miss when TV was more episodic. That's why I have been rewatching older Law & Order seasons and Supernatural.
Law and order has THE PERFECT story engine. It somehow makes every episode feel like its the most important case theres eve r been
I might get hate for this, but I liked the MCU a lot more back when it consisted only of movies (I'm not counting the old TV shows that aren't that important). These shows are just stretched-out movies for Disney+. I don't want to watch any more series. I just want movies.
One of the reasons why WandaVision and Loki were great shows was because they allowed their side characters to shine. With the laser focus on the main leads and the side characters not existing outside of the protagonist's story, the MCU Disney+ shows feel like overdrawn-out movies that I pause weekly.
I personally never minded the tv shows not crossing over with the movies (Netflix shows), since these were street level heroes who were not so into space and universe scale threats (Daredevil is fighting regular crime, Jessica Jones is mostly doing detective work, etc..). It felt like a smaller part of the MCU, and Daredevil appearing in NWH as a cameo was as much as I think was needed when it came to connecting these two parts of the same universe
Great video. Subbed
Thank you so much man! Glad to have you as a part of this growing community
I totally agree. The ones that really stuck with me were moon knight and loki. Everything else was..okay but they care more about quantity than quality and it’s showing.
I feel like she hulk feels like an actual
‘show-show’ if that makes sense, like it doesn’t feel like a movie spilt up in 6 parts
Yeah! I just started it but I totally feel that. Its not for everyone but its fun
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial oh wow man! Thanks for the reply, yeah it feels like a show to me- although it’s not as good as I thought it’d be and I feel like this show is here to setup future projects; (world war hulk, daredevil reboot/echo, etc.)
No need to thank me for a reply. Im really trying to build a community around this channel. I actively want to discuss these subjects with people. This isn't (alcoholism + complaining = im right) channel. This is meant to start conversations and welcome different opinions as long as people are respectful. Hope to see you around more often
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial yeah man! I’m genuinely surprised that more people don’t watch, I’m so glad YT recommended your channel to me!
Thanks! I think its just taking time to find the right audience. Happy to have people like you here early on
This clears up a lot of what I was thinking about when it came to these shows so far...
So glad to hear that! One of my major goals is to give people the words to describe how they feel about shows
Five years ago everyone was like "traditional television is outdated and dying, we need to replace it with something new". And now they're like "these shows aren't structured like traditional television 😡" . That being said while I don't think Marvel's approach is a problem, I wish they didn't do 6 or 9 episodes with every show as a formula, and I'm glad to hear we're getting different episode counts in upcoming projects like Daredevil.
People never really wanted traditional TV to die, they just want TV to have a higher production budget overall.
And not be 70 percent commercials
i miss being so excited about each new show in a pre ms marvel she hulk world
I feel many Marvel series could benefit from a format like Sherlock, with 3 90 minute episodes instead of 6 60 minute episodes. You'd still get the added length (about 4 1/2 hours) which would allow for character and story beats that a 2 hour/ 2 1/2 hour movie would have to cut but it also wouldn't have to pad itself out as much and you could structure the story around a clear beginning, middle and end (plus maybe save a bit of cash normally spent on visual effects).
Oooooooio9h that could work really well
They don't have 60 minute episodes, they are like 30 to 50 minutes
Loki is the only one for me that made it work with 6 episodes but even then I’d of appreciated more
It’s hard for me to tell if Loki would work better as a movie. But it has a strong beginning and ending that’s satisfied me. And the story doesn’t end on episodes 6, it continues straight into season 2
Yeah loki is so hard to tell for me as well.
The TV shows are equal to television as the movies are to cinema. It's something different that they're trying to figure out how to incorporate into the broader universe.
Wandavision worked as a TV show because it was a love letter to classic and episodic television.
It’s nice to see a video that isn’t just bashing on the tv shows.
I try to be mostly positive on this channel. While I'll critique things I have problems with, I find it much more productive to primarily focus on the positives in great art. It's really encouraging to know that approach is connecting with people! Thanks for leaving a comment. A lot of people who like a video don't say anything so comment sections can often get negative pretty fast. Have a great day and hope you come back to be a part of this community I'm trying to grow!
While I generally agree with the premise, one of the things I like about these series is that we get to develop the character arcs over a longer period in a way that is not possible in film.
I also think the shows are being used to do some background building and narrative advancement so the films can just pick up with out needing to build backstory.
Totally agree with you. That's why I hope they lean EVEN MORE into that in the future. It's personally why I think She-Hulk (whether you like it or not) feels the most like classic television. It's designed to be low stakes and character driven which is super refreshing.
Moon knight should have been a film and the eternals should have been a tv series
Hi. A bit late to the conversation. But here's my take. I completely agree with the fact that these 'SHOWS' don't really feel like shows. Its more like a 4 hr long extended movie. In terms of its pacing, the 3 episodes are treated as if they are part of a longer season. But then they suddenly realise that they have already completed 50% of the show.
Nd that they only have 3 episodes left. So they now gotta wrap it all up in the last 3 episodes. It feels rushed and so generic as compared to the unique and interesting potential they tease in the first 3 episodes!!!
It’s better the wait till all episodes are outs. Then watch then straight as a long movie. I found the ones a rewatched where better seeing them that way.
Me too. I enjoyed falcon and winter soldier much more enjoyable when I binged it the second time
I hope Daredevil will rectify this issue. I think the first half of Moon Knight and WandaVision in its entirity was a bit better in this regard.
I saw somewhere that someone edited down kenobi from a 6 hour tv show to a 2 hour movie, has anyone tried that for the mcu shows? They’d probably be so much better suited for that format
It would certainly be a cool experiment. Especially for moonlight
Great vid. This is exactly what's wrong with a lot of modern TV. Not enough individual moments of greatness and episode centric conflicts. Also 6-8 episode seasons can be cool but if you are not pacing yourself it can fuck up a show. That's not a lot of time at the end of the day.
Yeah. Its why a lot of the shows deep like they don't have a proper second act
People really don’t like ep 4 of Loki but it easily was my favorite slow and get some good character growth for loki and Sylvi (however you say her name)
Totally agree!
Marvel series writers need to go back and watch some Buffy the Vampire Slayer.
Most seasons had a singular big bad, but also weekly stories all while the drama elements developed over the whole season.
One of the things Buffy had that most MCU series have not had is a quality supporting cast with personalities and plot lines that weaved throughout the season.
Buffy would have great individual episodes but would end the season with a multi-episode climax after which there would be a reset. There were some dud filler episodes but for Disney + those could be eliminated because you don’t need 25 plus episodes just 10 or 12.
10 to 12 would be the perfect number of episodes
For its flaws that you have mentioned and that Marvel can do better in their shows, Phase 4 shows overall have been doing great, could be me, but the shows overall have been more intriguing than the films overall (the films are still great thanks to Shang-Chi, No Way Home, Multiverse of Madness, and Love and Thunder).
Moon Knight, Loki, and WandaVision are the best shows so far
Hawkeye, What If...?, and Ms. Marvel are very entertaining and fun watches
Falcon and the Winter Soldier is a mid/ok (just the case of more shows coming out and turning out better)
Of the shows we've seen so far, WandaVision, What If...?, and (maybe just me) Moon Knight are the closest to feeling like actual shows since each episodes do standout from each other, most especially for Moon Knight, there's never been an episode that felt like a filler.
Seeing as Phase 4 is basically Phase 1 as we're post-Endgame and this is the most daring and experimental phase for MCU (films and shows now have more style in order to help standout from each other), Marvel looks to be keeping an eye on what works and what doesn't.
Still looking forward to the shows, particularly She-Hulk, Secret Invasion, Armor Wars, Loki Season 2, and What If...? Season 2 (there's a lot more shows that I'm looking forward to, but those are the ones coming soon I think)
Me too! My critiques are just meant as "how could it be EVEN better" im super happy with phase 4 marvel on both the big and small screen
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial likewise
Been loving Phase 4 overall
Moon Knight, Multiverse of Madness, Love and Thunder, WandaVision, Loki, and No Way Home I personally enjoy, especially Moon Knight (Marc/Steven/Jake ended up becoming my new favorite character in the MCU surpassing Tony and Wanda)
@@kendrick5501 Steven is the goat! "Avenger's Assemble" doesn't hold a candle to "Laters Gators" 😁 Steven is cool. Jake we'll have to wait and see. And yes they should be ranked as three separate characters ;)
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Hahahaha I love Steven for his lovable personality, but likewise for Marc, practically love both of them. And Jake is supposedly the protector alter of the system so that alone I do like and looking forward to his story in the future.
And yeah, Marc, Steven, and Jake are like 3 different characters. Though tbh, you can't really have just 1 alter without the other alters, like you can't have Marc without Steven and Steven without Marc (yes same applies for Jake). Hence why I consider Marc/Steven/Jake as one. As what Steven said "We're like a package deal."
Ms marvel should have been a 3 hour movie. It would have worked with lollywood/bollywood elements. And it should have been made darker than a teeny bop show.
I haven't seen Ms. Marvel yet but I'm excited to do so. I can definitely see that being the case though. However, you also see a longer Movie like Eternals which arguably would have been better as an 8 episode TV series. It's a really tough task to find the medium that is best suited for a given project, especially when there's pressure from studios to make it one thing in particular.
Ms. Marvel isn't the show that should've been darker. Have you read the comic? If anything Moon Knight should've been darker.
I agree with what's being said. As a casual viewer I prefer episodic TV format. Wanda vion was enjoyable on that level. I don't binge watch so I gotta brush up on past episodes to remember where I am. Personally I shouldn't have to watch a streamed to understand a movie. Personally I'm one of those those lost as they've gone interconnected. I don't have time to watch every movie and series and movies so I gave up on their movies and series unless I'm sure it's stand alone. It is frustrating to watch a film that only make sense if you've seen however many movies series. They need to have a few shows that can be enjoyed one at a time without tying into some bigger story arc or I might quit it all.
I came this conclusion as well after Moon Knight- so glad i’m not the only one who sees this😆
This is exactly why Agents of S.H.I.E.L.D. remains the best MCU TV show in 2022.: they were making television. They experimented, but kept their audience entertained with each episode. Sure, it wasn't the most artistic one (that would be Daredevil S03) and they didn't make much buzz on the Internet, but they managed to be renewed every single time; they ended on their own terms. It was really the most versatile series, and the original one, it felt as part of the MCU, but it was open to try new tones. It was not mandatory viewing, because their stories wouldn't impact the movies, but it stood on its own, not to mention THE SERIES WAS ACTUALLY AIRED ON TELEVISION, not put in a streaming service.
- Season 1: Episodic spy series with multiple connections to the MCU.
- Season 2: Serial spy series with a little bit of superpowers and a story that is built with each episode.
- Season 3: Supehero series with superpowered villains, much drama and a team-up.
- Season 4 (the best): Paranormal, futuristic, experimental and with A LOT of character development.
- Season 5: Spacial futuristic and dystopian series.
- Season 6 (kind of the worst of the bunch): Alien thriller and mythological series.
- Season 7: Back-to-the-future-ish time travel series, and a totally sentimental end.
I love that you end on the fact that you love television. I really think TV is the GenX of media. Overlooked and underrated.
When we look at WandaVision: it’s perfect. (A very tough act to follow). As you say, it melds with the medium. It connects to the films-its endgame light. Each episode is its own narrative snowglobe and its own MCU mystery. (Biggest potential fail-Agatha is the big bad, and she is completely contained. Does her own show advance or prequel her plot?)
Anyway. With Hawkeye. Is this a Hawkeye show? Isn’t it about Kate? Is this just and interstitial link to the Young Avengers? That fine if it is… but we need stronger bridges, not taller tent polls. Hawkeye is on his way out. (Not because he’s lame, or old, or all he does is archery. No. Because his story is over. He wanted to retire. Thanks destroyed his life. Now it’s back. And he still misses GD Christmas. He wants out.). But is it Kate’s show? Is it Yalena’s? (I wish it were!) is is Vincent D’Onfrio’s? (Because I’ll say it… Kingpin is fucking lame!!!! Aliens are invading and literal Norse Gods are getting involved, but I’m supposed to care about a overly bulked pre-diabetic with no hair, less fashion sense, and a clearly developing throat cancer? This guy is lame! Jay Pritchett has more game in the ladies department. And my 2 month old could choose a better white on white canvas! Please strip trying to make Kingpin a thing….) ehem.
And then there’s Loki. A show about a problematic character. Who probably shouldn’t be here anymore. But the fans like. And they at one point wrote a lot of comics about I guess. So. Does this show rehabilitate him? Give him a love interest? Make his strip down? (Damn. Did he always look like that?). Could they give him a sexy haircut? No? No , pecs are fine, but textured, non-greasy hair, that’s the line?).
Anyway, is this explaining multiverses? Because it seems like you and Spider-Man and Dr Strange need to have a sit down and talk about what incursions are. And lots of other shit. Before Kang just shows up.
Then there is Winter Falcon. Jesus Christ this was amazing. But I doubt Pepper Pots is ever going to contribute to refugee relief in the Ukraine War any time soon. But if ever there was a better response to 2020, I can’t name it. It just,.. I feel Bucky should just bottom for any and all Captain Americas including a sorcelled Wanda.
And if the JLD bad captain American plot makes it to film, how do they explain that to a film only audience? And Matt Murdoch cameos do not get to retcon the entire NetCU.
(Ok. I’m drunk. And got off topic. Chou chou!)
Hah. No worries. Sleel it off. Great points all around. Phase 4 in general is im such an interesting spot because how it will be looked at depends so much on how phases 5 and 6 build off of it. Itll either be the biggest disappointment or greatest triumph in film history
i agree. they’re not shows. they’re movies stretched out into shows for audience pandering and introductions of a new character just featuring one that you’ve already seen before. and because there are characters the audience already knows about, the audience is more invested in them rather than the newer ones because, for the mcu viewers only and not the ones who have read the comics, we don’t even know who these people are. and the writers arent very good at fleshing out a good character for them and just return to the ones we already know, but due to that familiarity, there’s nothing they can really add without it being viewed as filler.
i would say, if you really want to make a show, take unfamiliar characters that practically no one knows about *(Eternals)* and take time to flesh out their characters so that the audience will actually care about them when a movie is made for them *(Eternals)* and this works better because you can constantly divert from the main overarching plot while still having a self contained story to flesh out the character in it, rather than just throwing 5+ random characters into a 2 hour movie and expect the audience to care about them. *(ETERNALS)*
I think they are too short. It ends before it starts. They feel like long movies and not shows
Daredevil is TOP TOP TOP Tier Superhero filmmaking. Tops 90 if not 100% of all Marvel content as well as most comic book films
TWB: Family friendly projects like Agents of Shield or Agent Carter released on ABC...
Me: Remembers when one of those turned several people into bloodied husks, decapitated several more, and gave a few lost limbs to the leads for good measure.
the disney + show always feels like they are stretching a movie into 5 episodes with lots of boring stuff, and then they spend their budget on a super fast cgi battle in the final 6th episode
just a reminder that Daredevil and Agents of SHIELD are still the best Marvel content to date
Agents of shield wasnt my thing personally but I loved daredevil
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial AoS took some time to get going, but the character work in the later seasons is truly incredible
Ooh interesting
this is very true and very informative
Thank you!!!
GREAT THE WRITER'S BLOCK ❤
So is “lost” not television by your definition?
I think another problem with these TV Shows are they are too important to the narratives of the movies.
Watching Multiverse of Madness while skipping Wandavision will leave you utterly confused because you NEED to watch Wandavision to have any sort of context to what she's doing in that movie. It is absolutely essential, and I think that's a big problem.
On the one hand, the movies by themselves worked because the MCU put action into the forefront while having character work and overarching narratives taking a backseat while allowing for some sense of progression between the movies with everything feeling relatively equal.
However, when you look at how Wandavision had an impact on Multiverse - it feels like more of a Wanda movie than a strange movie, because suddenly, that progression of character and narrative has been utterly fucked up.
Strange is, by far, the character we know much less about because his film appearences haven't had the chance to go into the character work Wanda has received. As a result, she might have less screen time in the movie, but not only are we more invested in her story, but Strange as a result, gets sidelined in his own film. What's his narrative in the movie? Well there wasn't much to work with because he hasn't had as much put into his character.
Generally, this feels a bit strange to me. The idea that Sam and Bucky have had so much screen time in the MCU that they're probably rivalling Steve and Tony is a little weird to me. It doesn't feel right that the TV Shows are giving certain characters so much more focus than others in the context of the wider MCU.
I think it worked before because while shows like Agents of Shield and Daredevil were giving those characters a lot of development though superior screen time, they weren't impacting the movies.
I think it's going to create a really weird dynamic were certain characters who have had TV shows are going to be super familiar to the audiences who watched them in comparison to the characters that were only in the films, and those who skip the TV Shows are going to be utterly confused, because of the nature of crossing the two mediums together into one big messy narrative.
Great video
Thanks!
What is televisión if not small screen media persevering
Simply the Best Comment. Respect.
Yeah, they aren't television. They are streaming shows.
Its an oversimplification of events but... yes
I actually think DC shows and movies not being connected are the way to go. That is why I loved the netflix Marvel shows like Daredevil. You could watch it and not worry about it being connected to anything else. I think Marvel is TOO interconnected now. It was fun in the run up for the Avengers, but they have overdone it. One of the big criticisms of Dr. Strange and the MVOM was just the vast knowledge that people need to know now just to understand what s happening. I liked the new Batman movie because it was only a batman movie. Too many people now expect every marvel property to name drop characters and have cameos which really should not effect the movie or story they are telling. If the show or movie cannot support a strong story on its own merits without relying on some perceived tie-in with the MCU (um..captain marvel..cough) then maybe it should not be done at all.
Yeah its interesting because while the first 3 phases were very mainstream, phase 4 is much .ore targeted towards the hardest core fans who watch it all. It'll be interesting to see how that plays out over the next few years
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial I feel that is unsustainable but it will take a couple duds to make them course correct
True. Then again, trying to be the premiere cultural phenomenon is largely unsustainable as well. Everything about the mcu is unprecedented so im fascinated to see what becomes of it. Whether good or bad, it will certainly be interesting to watch
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial I feel this is common sense and already happening. The Dr. Strange movie's reviews were mostly poor with the most common criticism being you need to see too much other stuff to understand it. What was novel and great when there were under ten movies that everyone watched is becoming unsustainable with tons of movies and now demanding everyone watch disney plus
Didn't kick fury appear on shield
Disney needs to watch the last season of Stranger Things and use that as a template for all of it's shows. The Marvel & Star Wars shows feel cheaper because of the cut budgets and rush to deadline mentality. ST4 took it's time, even held some episodes back so they could be finished correctly. And the results speak for themselves. Making the shows more an "event" with a quality over quantity needs to be the game plan.
Eh. The last season if stranger things was way over indulgent. There was no need for such long episodes and it really hurt the pace of the season
I mean a lot of shows nowadays are technically mini-series. Game of Thrones or many other streaming shows are same way.
Finally someone who isn't going "Jesus CHRIST this is a woke m-she-u disaster". You have my respect
Honestly still don't think the newer MCU stuff can top daredevil no matter how hard they try, happy to be proven wrong tho
Happy to help add some nuance to the conversation. And its gonna be hard to top daredevil. Even the test of the defenders shows never matched the quality of daredevil
So far, and for the forseeable future, the only MCU shows that actually work as Television are WandaVision and She-Hulk, which both feature shorter episodes which are more EPISODIC, and longer shows compared to the others
Agreed
this is why my theory was that falcon and the Winter soldier was originally a movie because it felt like a marvel movie.
Hmm. I doubt it but only because i think the show mainly exists to set up falcon as captain America so they dont have to do all that in cap 4
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial yes what I meant was what you stated in this video was the explanation for this feeling that it felt like it was at one point a movie. When in reality it's just that marvel doesn't know how to tv show.
I really like the "drawn out movie cut up into parts". I feel like it gives so much more depth and information than we could ever fit into a 2 hour film. It irks me when a movie cuts out very important scenes and dialogue just to ft in more action. My only issue is the obvious political agenda that's infecting the new marvel phase. It's fine when it's done tastefully but it's just insulting at this point.
From what I've seen of She-Hulk so far, it seems like the producers are learning how to write for TV. The courtroom drama format is very good for episodic stories and Jen herself gets a lot of time to be developed. Still, this is my impression 3 episodes in. We need to see what the rest of the series goes for
Totally agree to both parts. I think the pretty low stakes actually helps it. Its less pressure and allows the show to have more fun
falcon, hawkeye and moon knight are just stretched movies
Totally get what you mean. Thats why the intimate episodes are the best. They highlight the strengths of tv
I think the problem is that Marvel treats its shows as advertisement to their films and segue into the MCU films, focusing too much on pushing an overarching narritive than writing compelling stories.
Old marvel shows like Daredevil feel more complete and focused because at that point they didnt care so much about directly combining the shows with the films.
Welp might as well give some toughts.
Could you please add more. You mention moon night wanda vision, hawke eye , and loki . Yet you spend too little time on it its more just saying this show was like this and this one was better cause it was like this. This obly works with people who agree with you as someone could say but i found it to not be like that . So please give examples or something
Same for your piont of them being long movies . Give some examples . Like maybe take about 3 episode in a sbow and show how they drag as they cant end or dont have a good conflict or something.
Hey first off thank you for being respectful in your critique.
Secondly those are great points and ill be sure to implement them in future videos. Im a pretty new video essayist so this was my fourth video ever.
Thanks again for leaving thoughtful feedback. It really helps and I agree it could be explained better
I gave hawkeye a watch just for the single reason the heroine isnt a mary sue and actually flawed and learned from mistakes but ngl, i dozed off at some of the scenes. Hawkeye would be spectacular if it was a movie
Eh, I don't know. Anime (in general) isn't very episodically structured but it still works. Maybe it's because of shorter runtime per episode, and the episodes in the MCU shows do feel unnecessarily long , but i think there's much bigger problems here, namely the subpar writing and characters and the overuse of "The Marvel formula".
WandaVision: fun but the end is garbage.
Falcon and the Winter Soldier: annoying and extremely preachy
Loki: exposition, exposition, exposition, over and over.
Hawkeye: completely forgettable
Moon Knight: cool idea with terrible pace and questionable focus on the side character.
Ms. Marvel: it doesn't make any sense and it's filled with unnecessary drama.
She-Hulk: Horribly obnoxious and unfunny.
i watched them, but i want a Marvel tv show, on TV, you know with the buttons and knob, and the menu and the dvr, i would watch Batwoman before it was cancelled on the CW, so i do like superhero tv shows on Tv itself. so i want them to put a marvel show on regular tv, like they had Agents of SHield
Yeah that could be really interesting. But I doubt they'd let that happen seeing as they're all in on Dinsey+ at this point. The media landscape is changing fast and there's not a big chance of it going back
Agents of Shield are family friendly? Umm, sure, if you think off the gruesome deaths, blood and basically everything rated R then it would be.
I mean its basically pg13 at its most mature moments. Never more than that
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Maybe PG13, but they were pushing it. Didn't see it in a while, but I remember guy having his chest crushed, woman being shot through neck by sniper (in same episode) and blood came out, severed limbs and dude being gased with mustard gas (survived though) to name a few, also a lot of torture, so I wouldn't show it to kids below 12-ish
A fair point to be sure
It feels like these are poorly edited movies stretched out to make a series...
When I watch I stay tuned, I don’t get why other people have had so much issues with tv shows in phase 4 just imagine how bad they would all be if they were movies, phase 4 would be INFINITELY worse than what people say it is
Sometimes I miss Daredevil and Jessica Jones days
A detective show from Marvel eoukd fit a TV formula better. Daredevil would be good at it. Maybe a grounded Prison Break-like show would work with a minor villain slowly fleeing from The Raft could work too... oh, wait, Zemo did just that in one scene. All that potential straaaaight to the garbage.
how is profitable spend almost 1,5 billon dollars in all the "tv shows"¿
wow i've never realized it
1:06, until No Way Home came out
True. But I was mainly referring to while it was on the air
@@TheWritersBlockOfficial Yeah. That makes sense
Charlie cox was in Spiderman:no way home though
We aren't in the era of Netflix shows though