reiterating what foxy said yet two months later, it was also a moment of character development for wanda. She didn't even know she was the scarlet witch or what that meant for her.
i really enjoyed this analysis and felt similarly about the show! The last show that made me feel this way was the BBC Sherlock series, similarly in how they created a "mystery" that the audience could never solve, only to create an unsatisfying plot that mocked the audience along the way
I never made that connection but it's brilliant actually. Sherlock never intended to reveal Reichenbach definitively. Both seemed so mean-spirited to their audience. Joke on people for caring I guess.
Agreed. I love both shows but the fun of a mystery is being able to follow along as an audience member. The “I knew it!” Is a great feeling, so is “wow! I never would’ve expected that!” when looking back and recalling all the clues you didn’t notice. “What? How was I supposed to know that?” Is just frustrating.
That is bad writing on Moffitt's part. 😅 the UK has an amazing list of detective mysteries that focus in the mystery (not all are dark either, some have great humour) and the fact they didn't get a good writer they fully had access to for it broke my heart. There is a reason why Midsummer Murders have been going for years - and it's not because of terrible writing😅
@@jknifgijdfui its a reference to a bs sherlock holmes mystery where the murder was found to be done with a boomerang the audience had no way of knowing about. It refers to a mystery purposefully hiding information to make solving it impossible.
@@jknifgijdfuiIn Hbomberguy's video on "Sherlock" he talks about an episode/scene where, from nothing the audience could have known, Sherlock and Irene Adler conclude that a man was killed by a boomerang.
Having now watched WandaVision, I wonder why they didn't simply go all the way with Agatha mind controlling Wanda into creating all of this, creating events to stress her out to trigger her evolution into The Scarlet Witch to then steal her power or something like that. You can still explore the grief aspect, as people are very often more vulnerable to be taken advantage of in their grief, and you can still stage the entire thing like it was Wanda All Along - because it was, just someone else would be pulling her trigger. Maybe Wanda even accepted a deal from Agatha like she presents in the finale, so Wanda can still have all that guilt. It would have cleared up Agatha a bit too, whose actions seemed....really bizarre. Like is this a therapy session or are you trying to steal this witch's powers? What's the point of helping Wanda confront her demons and sort through her trauma and...make her more powerful because shes healing? I know Agatha was all "omg when did you take the steroids and where do I get some" but the way she spoke to Wanda, backhanded or no, really reminded me of a therapy session LOL I could handle the fucketry of the timeline if that'd been smoothed out a bit.
damn dude thats a really good idea. Been racking my brains as to how they could have tweaked the story so that it would actually work and couldn't come up with anything myself until I read this.
I agree with your changes to the plot. It was definitely rushed to hell and back so they could pump it out fast (especially during the pandemic, which I feel really fucked with a lot of work needed for these shows and movies to be the cinematic masterpieces they were intended to be)
i think agatha is so incredibly poorly written, and it’s such a shame they wasted katherine hahn’s talents for such a mediocre character. anyways, can’t wait to watch agatha all along and her fifty thousand wardrobes or whatever the fuck they wanna call it now
Hell, they could've framed it as Agatha approached Wanda to help her, as a way to help Wanda gain some form or closure and live out a life she wanted, where she could be normal. Agatha could frame it was "I'll handle choosing the location, just try to not use your powers too much, to get used to living a normal life" And then comes the reveal that Agatha was siphoning away Wanda's powers, and preparing for Wanda to ascend to being the Scarlet Witch, but something goes wrong. Maybe Agatha needed Wanda unaware that it wasn't real so she did a memory spell, but it wasn't complete and Wanda begins remembering. Maybe Vision, being incredibly insightful, notices something is wrong and after he finds he's unable to leave he tried to tell Wanda. And then you can lead into Multiverse of Madness by saying that Agatha planted a curse on Wanda so that, if Agatha ever leaves a certain vicinity of Wanda (say, the maximum distance between 2 points in westview, which is the maximum distance of her siphoning spell) it will begin to drive Wanda insane, twisting her perceptions and memories so that she'd cause her own destruction.
Agatha could have been good. What I first thought she was, and which would have fitted, is for Agatha to have been made a fake outside villain by Wanda. She was at a point of the illusion getting cracks and needing a scapegoat to ease her guilt and Agatha turns up at the perfect time. Wanda creating herself a villain that is behind the bad things would have fitted so well. It's a pity Agatha was real.
When Agatha was revealed at EXACTLY the moment that Vision was starting to figure it out, this was the theory I had and was rooting for. ‘Invent a generic supervillain so Wanda is not the bad guy’ would have been a much, much, much better twist than ‘YOU ARE THE SCARLET WITCH!!!’ This video makes a lot of great points about the problems with WandaVision’s mystery, but the biggest problem with Agatha as the final villain is that she shouldn’t have been. The antagonist driving the problems of the story was WANDA all along. She abducted and brainwashed hundreds of people as magical grief therapy, but the show uses Agatha to make someone else the bad guy in the situation (even though Agatha’s evil plan targets Wanda, not innocent people). Imagine how much more satisfying WandaVision could have been if its main conflict was between Wanda and Vision, with Vision realizing what the love of his life has done and trying to break through to her. Instead we got CGI energy blasts in the sky. And also those kids singing in the Doctor Strange movie.
Not having seen the show myself but having picked up on broad details through osmosis, I always assumed that the main conflict WAS between Wanda and Vision. I didn’t even know about Agatha until watching this video and yeah, that makes this show look structurally disappointing from where I’m looking.
wouldn't it have worked better if it *wasn't* "agatha all along", but that was wanda's doing, as in, wanda put the blame on agatha for causing all of this instead of having go confront her guilt about it? but no, wanda's the hero, they can't make their hero do bad things in her own show, we can make her evil later in dr strange tho, i think i never actually saw that movie
The thing is she still did do bad things. Even if she didn't mean to, she mind controlled an entire town. Then she didn't even apologize and she didn't get arrested. She just walks away with no consequences.
I can't help but think that the Mephisto theorizing was basically in reaction to WandaVision's poor quality of mystery. If the fans only had what the show offered to work with then it was bound to be a negative experience for a lot of people but the theorycrafting carried the show because the audiences were looking for a mystery within the mystery, things that weren't easy to guess since the majority of the fan base already knew the plot of the show before the third episode.
Imo you're right that the mystery plot would have been better served with monica as the detective from the beginning, and they could have still done the different sitcom styles while she was investigating. The who comparison was good at illustrating that point. Agatha maybe should have been left as something like a post-credits scene to set up the next installment. Idk.
Episode four should have been an X-Files parody of trying to find Monica and uncovering the conspiracy to hide what happened to the town as the government didn't want to scare a population already afraid after Thanos and the end of the world. Then had the reveal that it was reality but left it ambiguous that the effect of the town was bleeding through into the real world.
It’s a great show, but a horrible mystery. The core audience (die-hard Marvel fans) clocked both Wanda being behind it all and Agnes being Agatha Harkness long before the show even premiered.
the second one was only clocked by comics fans. And as stated in this video, comics knowledge is not something the whole audience has (especially not the general/mainstream audience)
As someone who has seen zero MCU content except wandavision (I was bored and the old tv shows are what I watched growing up without cable). I had no clue what was going on at the end lol which def ruined it a bit for me personally but obviously that’s more a me issue I guess? I mean it would be nice if the show could be a self contained story that doesn’t require a lot of lore to watch but. Whatever. I didn’t clock any of the mysteries but I had no hope of doing so. I did dislike how they moved off the Wanda perspective to the agents perspectives because I found them confusing and boring. I wanted it to be just Wanda’s side. Not the outsides side. Or at least a more clueless outside like how I would feel in that position. Instead it was an agency that knows the main characters already so that did spoil a few small things here and there that I wouldn’t know going in. So yeah. Not a good standalone show but also it wasn’t made for me.
I really didn't like the Agatha reveal because the only reason people see it coming is because she's a character from the comics who uses magic and is associated with Wanda. I never read the comics, but I was aware of the theories, so I was actively looking for signs of foreshadowing. But not only was the reveal not built up at all, the story actually tries to throw you off by having "Agnes" do things just to make herself look innocent to the audience that don't have any internal logic to them. It's like in Frozen when Hans smiles dreamily at Anna when she's not even looking at him so it doesn't make sense as part of his manipulation of her, it's just to fool the audience. Kang in Loki was a similar deal. Guy completely comes out of nowhere, relying on your knowledge of comics to get the satisfaction of an "I knew it!" rather than putting any foreshadowing into the show itself. If the show were a self-contained original property and you didn't have outside knowledge and expectations coming into it, and it was purely about Loki's character arc and not a vehicle for introducing new characters and concepts to perpetuate the MCU with, the most logical thematically appropriate reveal would've been that it was another Loki variant who was in charge of the TVA, not some rando introduced at the last minute who Loki has no connection to.
8:13 case in point, that example would have been an acceptable solution in a mystery taking place in the world of Who Framed Roger Rabbit. Like... the rules of that world is that toons can only break physics for comedic effect, "only when it's funny", so imagine the perp escaped through a door drawn on the wall then deliberately had an accomplice also try to run through it but slamming into the wall, there you have the joke. Then the accomplice either erases the door as best as they can or hides it behind a shelf or something.
The Agatha thing is wild because comic fans clocked Agnes as Agatha almost immediately because of some stupid broach she wore in one episode. In the same breath comic fans we’re getting annoyed with the set up of the show and LOVED episode 4 for explaining what was going on, so if the goal was to satisfy MCU fans then they arguably did. But like everything in the MCU it’s not really for casual viewers even if it’s more welcoming then other MCU shows.
I personally think Mephisto was going to be the villain but Disney wanted to swerve the audience because they assumed all MCU fans are obsessed with TH-camrs and their theories when most aren't That's an extremely small niche audience and to try trolling them messed up what they were gonna pay off And they already had a villain that could of not only paid this off it could of gone right into the Multiverse of Madness Mordo Baron, he's connected to both Dr Strange and Wanda in the comics and we already know he hated anyone messing with time magically, so he could of been revealed to manipulate Wanda into causing this hex to prove the world needs less socrcers Hell, even have him and Agatha have an alliance which again works in the MCU and comics fans would love it because they had many alliances in many comic arcs and it fits in the MCU because Mordo expressed many times he thinks messing with reality and time is bad and has serious consequences Wouldn't he be even more livid that Wanda and Stephen are just using magic for personal gains on the levels they've gone when he was upset at Stephen just using the time gem to manipulate an apple?!?!? One of my biggest pet peeves with Disney is how they have yet to pay him off or even hint to him coming back And killing him off in MOM (In a deleted scene) was a big fu to all the fans who were invested in his arc built up in the first Dr Strange movie I did enjoy he was an illuminati member however
I actually found that moving the sword twist reveal episode to after the Halloween special fixes almost all problems. I watched through by skipping all sword scenes then went back and skipped all sitcom scenes. It worked very very well. Cause then the sword stuff works to contextualize events we've already seen.
The thing is, I don't think WandaVision ever could have been a fair mystery. A good portion of the audience are comic book readers, and thus, everything that's ever been in them can be seen as introduced before. Casting the Other Pietro was unfair, because it got people to expect something it never intended to pay off on, and used its metanarrative element to throw people off track. It didn't play fair, but it never could win. Plus, how many times have we heard stories of the audience figuring out the mystery ahead of time and discussing it online, only for the writers to specifically go, "Aw man, they guessed it! We have to change the answer now!" Detective novels never had this problem, because the mystery was all in one book, and people couldn't discuss it with one another between chapters. Even if they did, it generally wasn't going to change. With the internet, though, fair mysteries seem to have disappeared.
I actually don't think fairness need be affected by what the audience actually knows, though I concede many writers nowadays seem to think it does. Of course you want to surprise your audience and it's a shame if that's ruined by sources outside than the show. But above all the most important thing is that your story should work as a story. It needs to build to a satisfying conclusion regardless of whether or not your audience already know what that will be. It can still be satisfying to watch a spoiled story--otherwise nobody would rewatch anything--but not it the story isn't well constructed. And there's always going to be some portion of your audience who don't go on the forums or are watching years from now and haven't been spoiled.
@@JamesWoodallagreed. And Pretty Little Liars is a great example of OPs point and your point. PLL dropped a lot of hints about who the big bad of the show was. Honestly some very on the nose ones (Aria of course). And yet when enough traction picked up on Twitter about the Aria as A theory the show runner and writer Marlene King seemed to change the ending to smite that. She wanted an unsolvable mystery and I think she even mentions this on Twitter at one point?? Which is so bad and dumb. So it had one of the worse TV endings ever that’s still memed on to this day. It’s the kind of ending fans regularly ignore or rewrite. It’s horrible and ruins the fun of a mystery show with-I kid you not-a secret unknown twin separated at birth. Fun.
thank you for not spoiling legion btw, I had never heard of it before, but now I really want to watch it, so I was a bit nervous you would reveal the mystery
@@JamesWoodall just when I needed some new shows to watch :) I low key really hate when a TH-cam channel spoils a secondary show or movie when reviewing or critiquing the primary material. A lot of content creators don’t give a damn.
This perfectly described the issue I felt I had with the show but couldn't put into words! I was never surprised by anything other than the existence of Agatha, but I've never read the comics and didn't know I was meant to be looking out for a 3rd party. After her reveal, I was so hoping she was somehow a fake "bad guy" made by Wanda's subconscious to justify Wanda's actions (because it wasn't Wanda, it was Agatha, who is actually Wanda, yadda yadda), because then it would've been a mystery for no one to figure out but the audience. Love the videos you have so far and can't wait for the next one! ♥
I love that you brought the amazing "Silence in the Library" episode into the mix. You're so right that this should be the standard Marvel should try to achieve. Thank you for this brilliantly made analysis/video essay. I thoroughly enjoyed it. A German Whovian
6:10 oh my god the way I felt that in my soul. Thank god Knives Out saved my love for detective dramas because that whole season of BBC Sherlock made it shrivel up and DIE inside of me for YEARS.
You make a lot of fair points, though I still enjoyed WandaVison, there was some room for improvement and telling a better mystery. I think Marvel focused more on the emotional backbone and the setup for future releases and didn't focus enough on the art of a well told mystery. Maybe that was intentional or maybe they are revealing a story telling weakness of theirs... Time will tell I guess. Well produced video btw, edits and animations were very enjoyable.
To me, the real subversion would be to twist the source material. If the writers were bold enough to not make it out as Wanda herself crafting the Hex-field but truly instead be her under some form of manipulation, and have Agatha be behind all that, it would’ve been much more appealing. The source material is a widely known reference to the show, and having the show actually built on it and built on subverting it the same time would probably have been more interesting.
A really fun whodunit is tony winning The Mystery of Edwin Drood, based off of the unfinished novel of Charles Dickens. An engaging story, where the audience decides the murderer each night, and they have a song recanting their motives, some of them being tounge and cheek saying "It makes no sense, but you voted for me.".
I'm SO happy you did Legion. I love that show beyond any other, it really feels like it's too forgotten because it was a Fox thing and not released by Disney. If Disney actually did release it, it would have made more waves
As soon as I saw "The Library" I was like "ahh, Doctor. Too bad thats not it. I've never heard of The Library show.." and then I hear David Tennant's dulcet tones!
6:43 I was taught that this was meant as, If a foreigner with customs that a reader is unlikely to be familiar with appears in the story, either, said customs aren't important (then why make it a foreigner), or said customs are important (then you're basing an important part of your story on something that the reader is unfamiliar with and will take a great deal of time to explain, and if you take a great deal of time to explain, there's an expectancy that that person must be quite important to the story) This harkens back to hit 4th point It's unfair for the detective to say something like, "Oh, the word 'thing' is actually supposed to be a word in another language that means 'girl', so this sign was actually the victim telling us that the girl was the killer" in the big reveal, for instance. Though I was also taught that these rules... are more like suggestions
11:50 I mean theres also the clue that Wanda says "no" and it rewinds immediately after. That is a clue that she has some form of control. For the sake of argument.
@@aemcpthat is far too vague for anyone to conclude it was wanda. She could have been asking wanda to stop whoever is causing the anomaly, since they are avengers.
you can do the "same mystery from the outside and the inside" thing well, my favorite piece of fiction of all time, umineko when they cry does exactly this. it sets up a mystery with 18 people on an island who all die, showing multiple seperate interpretations of how the story could possibly go from an internal perspective, and also shows the perspective of someone from the outside, 12 years later, as ange, the sole surviving member of the family (due to being sick during the family conference where everyone died) tries to figure out what really happened the day her whole family died. it's an incredibly phenomenal story and i highly reccomend everyone reads it.
You’ve precisely explained why I didn’t like WandaVision as much as I wished I could have. I wasn’t familiar with Wanda or Vision ahead of time, so I wasn’t having to bridge that gap. But even as a stand-alone, so much seemed to be over explained, or completely unexplained, so by the end - when the “gotcha” was happening, it just seemed like a throwaway.
I wish Marvel treated their media more like adaptations and stopped trying to full the comic-reading audience. Just like book readers already know the ending, they aren't going to the movie to be shocked or surprised, they (we) just want to the story come to life. The fact that WandaVision was already based on a comic story should have warned them that comic-readers would know. A mystery is still satisfying if you already know the answer because you get to more clearly see the pieces on the way. In fact, I would argue that a good mystery is even more satisfying the second or even third time around. I love rereading Miss Marple's Thirteen Problems not because of the characters or plot, because there isn't much of either, but because I discover new details that point to the solutions or red herrings all along the way.
I was SO surprised to see Legion mentioned here - an absolutely great example to use for comparison that I don't often seen brought up in discussion about superhero media in general. I think it also is important within this discussion about mysteries because it refutes the idea that a comic book series can't keep mysteries from hardcore fans - the way in which the series weaved and interpreted storylines (Especially in season 1) kept it fresh for non-comic readers and X-men fans alike. Edit: Also noticed you defended s2/s3 , really cool seeing that - I agree Legion sometimes gets too over its head for its own good (especially in season 3) but I honestly think the philosophical concepts structure of season 2 and the way that affects the story going forward is brilliant and deserves more credit.
This is also why I hated the villain reveal in Frozen so much. They intentionally added misleading evidence of Hans's innocence, not to mention that his motivations for his behavior only made sense if he was a good guy.
The Hans reveal may not be the most sophisticated twist in cinema history, but I don't think it's unfair, in the Knox sense. I'd say it's actually quite predictable. Narratively, we're primed to think of Hans as the "wrong guy". The trolls sing a whole song about it, and both Elsa and Kristoff remark on how unwise it is to marry somebody you just met, because does Anna really know Hans? So when Anna goes to Hans for an act of true love, we've already been setup to expect she's wrong. I don't know what evidence you consider misleading, but red herrings and misdirection don't necessarily make a mystery unfair. Pre-reveal Hans is characterised in way that makes him appear noble and honourable, but can be read a different way once we know his true motivations. 'Love is an open door' is about how in-sync Hans and Anna are, but the truth is he's just agreeing with whatever she says so he can convince her to marry him. Hans handing out cloaks and caring for the citizens of Arendelle makes him appear charitable, but he's just currying the favour of the public he hopes will accept him as King (and also so they won't suspect him of murder). And he repeatedly states his intention to go out to find Anna and Elsa, repeating how dangerous it is for them, which makes him seem gallant but actually he just wants to get them alone so he can stage an accident that will be believed. The truth is there if you're looking for it. We know Hans has 12 brothers, so can infer that marriage into another kingdom is his best shot at power. And he never actually says he loves Anna, he only talks about loving Arendelle. "I've been searching my whole life to find my own place." He doesn't want her, he wants a place he can own. Unfairness is about omitting crucial details, making the truth impossible to see. Disguising the truth as something else is fair game.
@@JamesWoodall There's various small instances where they attempt to paint him as an extremely sweet guy when no one is around to watch him (which they really didn't need to do). Even if he just changed from having a warm smile to a blank/stoic expression once everyone left, that would have been good enough of a "clue" to his true nature. Or at least don't show him while he's alone at all if they refuse to do that. But the biggest instance of him not behaving in way that made sense was during his attempt to "arrest" Elsa. First of all, we learn later that he was always planning to kill Elsa, even before she ran away. He wanted to marry her at first, but since she was unreceptive, the plan switched to marrying Anna and then staging an "accident" for Elsa. Once Elsa ran away, his plan was shifting a bit. Anna ran off after Elsa and had already put Hans in charge, so now all he has to do is try to find some way to make the marriage between him and Anna binding (so for now he needs her alive, until later when he doesn't), and besides that, he only needs to keep feigning innocence while secretly attempting to get Elsa killed without it being tied back to him. So, naturally, when he goes on the trip to "arrest" Elsa, he would not be opposed to Elsa being killed during the struggle, as long as he was not seen as the direct culprit. Sure enough, a chance for her to die is presented: a man is pointing a crossbow at her, and she's so busy dealing with other captors that she doesn't notice him. Hans is the only one who notices the bowman. Instead of doing the natural thing for his motivation and letting the guy try and kill her, he runs over and intervenes. Even if the script demands that she doesn't die, they could have written Elsa noticing the bowman at the last moment, or some other distraction causing the guy to miss. The script did not require Hans to step in, and yet that's what he does. His intervention causes the chandelier to fall instead. Some people attempt to make this itself purposeful on Hans's part, but it makes no sense. An arrow to the heart is not any less likely to be deadly than a falling chandelier. Elsa does end up surviving it, after all. So there's no need for him to see that as a better murder method, especially as such a death would be more directly tied to him due to it being caused by his actions. It was sheer luck that she didn't die, so his hands were "clean." And as far as we know, no one would know he didn't step in to save Elsa from the bowman. And even if someone was watching him, Hans could have simply pretended to try and stop the bowman but ended up being "too late". And he could pretend to be all guilt ridden that he "failed her" and garnered even more sympathy and support that way. In any case, that is probably the most glaring problem, but not the only one. And there doesn't seem to be any purpose behind it accept to mislead the audience.
@@Lady_de_Lis I don't recall many scenes where Hans is on his own, you may have to jog my memory. But you're right that stopping the crossbowman from killing Elsa is an odd choice. As is attempting to talk Elsa down as she's about to murder the Duke's henchmen. If he'd just let that happen, it'd turn the people against her further without him having to do anything that might implicate himself. So you're right his behaviour seems a little unconvincing here. However, in the next scene between Hans and Elsa in the prison cell, Hans urges Elsa to end the winter. Perhaps the idea is that Hans wants to fix Arendelle before killing Elsa--there's no guarantee killing Elsa will unfreeze his desired kingdom after all--so his intention may genuinely be to arrest her at that point, thinking he could decide the best course of action once Elsa was safely in a cell. (I think severing the chandelier was not his intention either, a genuine accident). Even so, you're right this is a little clunky. Hans is clearly a cautious plotter, but it's not established that he doubts killing Elsa will solve the winter. And I'm sure they could have gotten that across by having the Duke and the townsfolk leap to that conclusion and having Hans oppose it in a way which seems like he's defending Elsa. As for making his marriage with Anna binding, I think that was his original intention, but, as you say, his goal shifted. Elsa refuses to give her blessing to the marriage, so that plan is by no means guaranteed. And Anna leaving him in charge makes him the best thing the kingdom has to an heir. We can even see the moment he realises this. He tells the dignitaries he wants to go out to find Anna because "If anything happens to her..." the unspoken part being he's worried he might lose his connection to the throne. But a dignitary says, "If anything happens to the princess, you are all Arendelle has left." Suddenly, it's clear they've forsaken Elsa and are already considering him as next in line. It's only then he knows for certain killing both of them will guarantee his rise to power. Again, it's not the most sophisticated and you're right, it's clunky. I do agree that Hans as a character often feels restricted by the narrative, unable to behave in the way most natural to him because it would spoil the reveal. But because the clues are there and because it is possible to make an interpretation of his actions that kinda make sense, it is not unfair in the way Wandavision is.
@@JamesWoodall Just to clarify, I don't claim it's as unfair as Wandavision. Just that I think it was unfair. Wandavision is certainly worse. But that could partly be because Wandavision has more time to make more problems than a film does. Regardless, Frozen sticks out to me because it just so happens to be the first film I saw which was unfair in it's reveal. There have been more since, but it holds a special place for me for that reason. (And I don't even dislike Frozen. I actually really like the movie. Just hate how the villain was handled.)
This is a great video, it does a really good job explaining why Wanda vision was so bland despite having a lot of really good components that should have worked in theory. I honestly believe they could have saved this show in editing with a couple of reshoots to shuffle the motivation of the characters. You have Agatha be the main cause of everything, basically she's manipulating Wanda through her grief to draw out the Scarlet Witch, and from the outset we can follow sword and have them slowly discover the sitcom. By episode 2 we can have a full sitcom episode and then we can trade back and forth between the two styles. Shift the focus away from wanda as a main character that instead have vision be our main pov character for most of the series; this would set up wanda to be a red herring and it would allow us to discover who Agatha is and what the powers of the Scarlet witch are in a more organic way before the reveal. Since the mystery is now focused on the town, we could pull some other D list marvel magic characters out and sprinkle them in amongst the people in the town to better hide Agatha as a main villain. Sword and vision can kind of discover all of these magically powered characters are being drawn to this area, and they can give us a rundown on their powers by organically working through each one. Now we have more suspects instead of just Wanda or Agatha and so when it's finally revealed that it was "Agatha all along", it's more impactful because there are plenty of other characters from the comics hanging out in town. The other alternative is just to ignore the mystery all together and instead make the show about grief. There's a great self-contained series of comics on Wanda and vision which was actually used as inspiration for the show. The comics are more about the emotional state of these characters and how they deal with these difficult situations rather than some grand mystery. There is a mystery but it's not as important as the character moments. Just make it a small character story through the lens of sitcom and have a simple overarching mystery that slowly unfolds over the course of the story.
When there was the whole thing about Agatha, even though I haven't read the comics I was like "mmm...okay?" And then she was defeated like the next episode so what was the point and when Agatha was like "The Scarlett Witch!😦😳" I was like...yeah? Obviously, don't we already know all of this? Why is this supposed to be shocking?
I personally find it annoying how Marvel seems to cater to the comic fans at the expense of movie only fans. Like, someone who already knows who Agatha is can still enjoy the mystery if it's written well; knowing the twist doesn't ruin the story, if that were the case we'd never rewatch anything. But writing poorly just to throw people off who already know everything ruins it for everyone!
As much as I agree that WandaVision did not do a very good job with its mystery, I disagree that its premise was flawed and unworkable from the start. I think that both viewpoints, both from the inside out and the outside in working in parallel could've yielded and incredibly interesting mystery. Rather than have Sword show up three episodes in and have to play catch-up with things we already know, they could have cut back and forth between both perspectives. Each team would work on two different aspects of the mystery, alternating which one gets the clues, slowly getting closer and closer until they meet in the middle and find the solution. When they first introduced Sword, I actually thought they were going to continue the show in this manner with Sword on the outside trying to get in and Vision on the inside trying to get out. I think that it could've built up some incredible tension for when the two teams finally meet, and made for an ultimate "ah-ha" moment. I truly think that if the first Sword episode was interspersed throughout the first few, then it would've been a much more interesting and entertaining mystery.
also i'd love to see what other TV shows you're into! how to get away with murder is one of my favorites and i feel like it did mystery and suspense very well, but i'd love to know your take.
I've had a similar thought about an episode of doctor who and a marvel movie. Doctor Strange ends with him spending what I think was intended to feel like an eternity of him being killed by Dormammu but they dwell on it for 2 minutes before Dormammu just gives up. In the episode Heaven Sent of doctor who, they do so much better at communicating an eternity gone by and the sacrifices the doctor is willing to make.
16:27 I am SO HAPPY you brought up Legion as an example of this style of mystery done right. And I really appreciate this video overall. Wanda Vision was some of the most fun I’ve had watching a MCU tv show - for the first few episodes. When the big reveal was revealed it was such a letdown. I actually stopped watching for awhile. Eventually I finished the series and it felt like I had made a mistake and watched the latter half of an entirely different show. I like what you’ve done here because you raise every point that came to my mind - and then some - but you’ve done it far better than I ever could. You’ve effectively put words to the general feelings I had about the show. Something was wrong with Wanda Vision, but I couldn’t quite suss out what it was. Now I get it. It broke so many rules and conventions that I hadn’t even known about. But you don’t have to know about rules like Knox’s for them to be impactful. If many other good writers have followed these conventions, and if you’re familiar enough with these types of stories, then it can be a sort of sixth sense when you encounter a story that doesn’t include them. I really enjoyed how the show experimented with the medium, because I love that sort of stuff, but I hate hate hate how they dumbed the story down as much as they did. They totally ruined an otherwise amazing concept. Like everything Disney touches, this was a disaster, and it’s such a shame because it had so much promise.
James, I discovered your channel some weeks ago and watched your Devil wears Prada video (and it's amazing!). I clicked this video thinking "HEY but I liked Wandavision so much even though I'm not a Marvel Fan", but I loved this video. Like you said, it's a change on Marvel narrative but still, could be improved. Great analysis! I learn a lot with your videos :)
I love all of your video essays, this one is finishing off my binging of them! I hope you continue, these are all great! (If I may posit one criticism; during the grainy film-reel sequences in this, there's a subtle but present and steady high-pitched tone that's a big trigger for tinnitus/auditory issues!)
Looking back, it would've made alot more sense if Wanda created the Hex but Agatha fuelled her fantasies in order to keep her there and steal her power. That way the early reveal of Wanda creating the Hex would be supplemented by the secondary mystery of "Who is trying to keep her in the Hex" that Sword and the audience would be trying to solve. Wanda slowly realises what she did and begins to wake up, but Agatha would be disrupting this and SWORD's attempts to free Wanda which would play into the "Agatha All Along" theming. It feels like this is what they were trying to go for, but needed a valid reason for Scarlet Witch to become a villain. The obvious route would be Wanda being angry at Agatha, but then there's no reason for her to turn evil against everyone else. There are two story lines that conflict with each other and both suffer trying to compensate for the other.
21:13 See, at the time, I *did not believe* the solution in Episode 4. I wasnʼt convinced it was wrong but I didnʼt take her word for it either. Because there was still evidence against it at that point, still some mysteries that didnʼt add up with that explanation. And some of those are explained by it being Agatha All Along and some of those really were Wanda despite the evidence we had to the contrary.
I never really considered WandaVision to be a "mystery show", even though there were a lot questions posed. It never really has any of the aesthetic trappings of a mystery and I didn't expect a mystery going in, so really these unanswered questions not having their clues onscreen never bothered me. I don't consider WandaVision to be "bad at mysteries", because why would I even expect it to be "good at" them in the first place?
I know the video is old and this commentary probsbly will be forgotten, but I really want to say that this video is really good, it helped me understand lots of things from back when the show was airing and why I couldn't make those around me fully interested... And also gives me the perfect change to recomend that, if anyone wants a good supernatural mystery that also plays fair (extremely fair, you'll understand if you watched it) and has the time for it, Umineko: When They Cry, is one of the best examples I could ever think of that, specifically in it's novel version for PC, not the TV adaptation
Eyyy I was just thinking about bringing up the when they cry series as a good example of a supernatural mystery as I was scrolling through the comments, glad to see someone else thought of that too
It took me this long to find the time to watch the video and OMFG, it was great! I don't do the MCU (though I love 90s X-Men and the FOX movies - well, the good ones), but this video having media criticism, Poirot, Doctor Who AND a 'do better' attitude... *I think I'm in love* :D My favorite new channel! Easily.
It would've been really cool if Agatha was sort of a twisted hero of sorts, someone who knew all of what Wanda was capable of but instead of stealing her power wanted to contain it. So, she followed her, befriended her, and pushed her grief past the breaking point so she would create this fantasy sitcom to keep her busy and make Wanda keep her own powers dormant in the pursuit of a domestic life. That would explain why she was always trying to keep the truth away from Wanda and Vision and make her a much better antagonist.
I haven’t watched the video yet, so there’s a good chance you will bring this up. I feel that they played their hand way too soon. In episode 3 or 4 when the woman wakes up after getting expelled from Wanda’s world they explain nearly everything and pivot into an action show. I feel the mystery would have worked better if the reveal happend two episodes later and if some of the cameos happened sooner, like the woman from the thor movie. These changes would have added more to speculate and scratch our head over, but also make the mystery feel like it was actually important and not ham fisted to have a sitcom romp for 3 episodes
You put into words EXACTLY what my issue with WandaVision was. Overall, I loved the concept and the way they could play with styles of filmmaking and general expectations/knowledge about sitcoms to further the mystery, but none of it landed for me. I appreciated that they got weird with it, but it felt like they still didn't have the freedom to get weird ENOUGH to make it work, still confided by the overall Marvel story. But I had a hard time explaining exactly why it didn't land and why most of my interest evaporated after episode 3. This is such a great breakdown and fully puts into words exactly what I thought about this series. Great video!
As far as mysteries go, in my opinion Westworld season 1 and 2 is absolutely legendary. Not to spoil anything too much but these guys were showing us two different time periods/timelines and we didn’t even realize it until the end. Many others will agree but it’s honestly so unique and creative that even those same writers and producers couldn’t duplicate it (season 3 and 4 are…unfortunate?) I’d love to see the notes written down while they were figuring it all out, lol that must be like reading a schizophrenics journal
15:15 This greatly bothered me on my initial viewing of WandaVision. I was new in the mcu, had just watched all the movies and shows. My brain was running on all the logic of all those previous shows, with no comic book knowledge. So when the Agatha reveal happened... I was super confused. (The scene with Agatha being strapped to the pole). I was wondering if Wanda had suddenly changed the genre of the show, if this was a new trick. Massive confusion all around. I felt like I was watching a different show or maybe I had missed an episode. *Then* I realised the show was serious, witchcraft is a thing in this world. Magic that was different from Dr. Strange exists. And Agatha is a witch, an antagonist. It was so out of left field, it knocked all my immersion away and I had trouble getting back into it during the whole finale.
When this video started I screamed "there better be some poirot in this!" and i was not disappointed ♥ such a good video and such good points! I enjoyed WandaVision a lot but I have to agree with what you're saying. You have articulated a lot of things that felt off about the series. Great job!
The way the nailed the evolving voice of sitcoms through their era, making each form tonally resonant to the characters and story while also being funny, was more than enough. By the time they were hurling fireballs in the sky, praising Scarlett for releasing innocents from mental slavery, with a big goofy twist, that seemed like tacked on fan pandering. But they told a great story with style to spare to that point. Pop storytelling doesn’t always peak at the end, and we shouldn’t let its value be discounted for that reason. There are great movies that don’t stick the landing.
I felt like the writers/showrunner wanted to do one thing, the studio wanted to do another. I never felt like the point of the show was the mystery. It was Wanda going through the stages of grief. But because of Marvel’s storytelling method for the MCU, it had to ask some questions that could be answered in later instalments. Also, fans really just fucked themselves over by completely losing themselves in the whole Ralph Bohner thing. They were expecting a cameo/crossover when it was just another representation of Wanda’s grief. TL;DR - Wandavision is bad at mystery because it never tried to be a mystery. It fell victim to comic book fans not understand TV storytelling and following their own unrealistic expectations instead of what the acual show was giving them. It’s a common problem with superhero media derived from comics.
I can only explain this with the hindsight of having seen knives out, but at the time I was watching, wandavision stopped being a mystery and started being about following the thriller of how will Vision escape, or How Sword will save the people. The mystery elements became extra flair on top of the other genre of fiction I was watching. There are still criticisms to be made in how this genre flip, it's not a perfect show by any stretch, but it worked well enough when I was watching
Thank you for this comment! I think it's odd that people would assume this show was just failing at being a mystery... like Y'ALL. The point of the show wasn't the mystery, but the exploration of what grief can do to people and how Wanda has gone through so much loss and how it's finally broken her but also led her to her power.
Me, knowing full well I'm stupider than Watson: ....Uh oh. Also those Poirot sketches were hilarious. The entire video was very well formulated and put together, and your logic was well formed and presented. I remember thinking while you explained the mystery rubric that clearly the BBC Sherlock showrunners could have used a good dose of that, instead of throwing it out the window like they were, seemingly, too smart for it. Thank you! Good stuff.
I agree bro. On first viewing, I really liked wandavision, and I think there was enough there to make a compelling show. But I’m second viewing, the cracks are much more visible. It sucks because it had so much potential, but like you said, it spoils itself at times and has reveals that really didn’t have anything leading up to them.
Excellent analysis. Of course what you didn’t realize at the time was that WandaVision was just set-up content for The Marvels content and for the next Doctor Strange content, and probably not worth anyone’s time or engagement
One thing I found myself doing was constantly comparing this to the show "Kevin Can F Himself." That series had a great mysterious feeling, and did an amazing job of switching perspectives. Though it wasn't a mystery, the dark tone of the activity off screen reminded me a lot of SWORD aspects of WandaVision.
I’m so glad you brought up Doctor Who! When I first saw the trailer for WandaVision I immediately thought of the Silence in the Library episode and how well done and heartbreaking it was
It’s a crime you only have four videos up. I’d love to see you deconstruct Cruella, Mulholland Dr, Robert Altman, 2046, Spike Lee, and what the hell happened to Ang Lee’s career.
I think that maybe you are conflating a mystery with that, which I, at least, have dubbed a “Puzzle Show.” To my mind, the first Puzzle Show (or at least the first I paid attention to and that probably elevated and concretized the form, is Lost. Lost presented a LOT of clues. And it invoked science, the supernatural, true crime, and more. It didn’t really want to “play fair.” Anyone who was dispassionate enough knew that we were never going to reason out what the smoke monster was until they told us what the smoke monster was. Maybe there wasn’t a Watson (they all seemed to occupied with survival-Lost is also Robisonade to care about truly piecing everything together. But we were, and as interactive web, media, and eventually social media emerged, we were actually real-time real-life Wastons. Now, Lost truly did not play fair (and I argue that Lindelof did not play fair in The Leftovers or in game of Thrones either-in the last to disastrous effect.) This is not because it was a bad mystery; it was a bad puzzle. It had many pieces, and we expected those pieces to connect, so that we could see the full picture, but the hard part is not solving the mystery; it’s that we needed to catalogue all the clues. They would be explained-we thought. Instead, plot threads were dropped, presumably as red herrings-of which you should have at most only one. And of course, non-diagetically, we were told they weren’t dead, when they clearly all died of the nuclear explosion in Season 4 and spent the rest of the show reconciling that with their eternal psyches. But I digress. The problem is that this started a trend, where people were always trying to “solve” a show at the mere mention of an as yet unexplained detail. Sometimes, these questions were only meant to last for a week or two. Don’t try an solve it, just keep watching. But the facebooks and reddits of the world simply wouldn’t let this happen. Filter that through the fandom obsession with the ICU, and you’ve got WandaVision being mistaken for a full-blown mystery. When really it was a puzzle show… we’re going to see the whole picture once we catalogue all the edge pieces and fill in the picture. The picture will be revealed. So just catalogue clues and enjoy the ride. If you predict the ending, all the worse for you, because you now think the whole thing is predictable. I don’t think WandaVision ever asked you to solve the mystery, just ruminate and sit with questions like you might do with any good drama.
I always figured the show creator took a look at that vision comic where he's living in suburbia with a vision family, and was inspired by the sitcom vibe from that to take it literally and be a sitcom show. Every episode would pay homage to a different sitcom era, and there wouldn't be any intrusion from reality until the final episode. But they could only get 3 episodes of that past the execs, before they were forced to bring in the whole external perspective because the execs couldn't understand what the fuck was going on. The whole show stank of that kind of top-down interference. In the end we had a standard laser-beam battle between superpowered individuals... I bet that wasn't the ending the creator originally wanted.
I feel like it was most likely a great concept ruined by studio interference. They didn’t trust audiences to keep watching the slow burn the first few episodes promised. We need cameos, quips, fight scenes, and an unambiguously evil villain.
As someone who did not exactly watch the Marvel movies, I genuinely enjoyed the mystery, because I didn’t know anything about Wanda and Vision. So I suppose this series is for someone like me, who is yet not very familiar with the Marvel universe. I believe that’s why they actually explain what happened in the movies through the series.
Really good video, thanks. I love the idea of "playing fair", as an escape game designer I always try to use it in my puzzles. I often say that if it's a good puzzle, players want to kick themselves after solving it, but if it's a bad puzzle, players want to kick the person who created it.
I wasnt near my phone, just listening via bluetooth, and suddenly I hear my favorite doctor saying "The library!" a line from one of my favorite episodes, out of nowhere. Well done in making this whovian stop everything she's doing and smile 😊😊😎
Eh, I loved Agatha as a villain. You can’t really complain that she acted for the audience's benefit because, well, there literally was an audience watching Wanda’s sitcom within the show. And I think her demonstrating all the ways she failed to nudge Wanda awake was to emphasize just how deep in denial Wanda really was. My only complaint about Agatha is that she felt like a performer after she revealed herself. As in, I felt like she was purposefully making herself out to be worse than she really was for whatever reason. But I guess that’s just a testament to her acting skills, lol.
An example of a mystery told from different sides- one of my family’s new favorite shows is Yellowjackets. The story follows a girls soccer team who’s plane crashed in the canadian wilderness and whom, presumably, resorted to cannibalism. It follows them in the wilderness and them as adults 20 years later. But the whole time you are trying to figure out what happened in the forest: who died, how did they live, who got eaten, how did they get rescued. And youre falling further and further into the question as you see them devolve in the wilderness and see more of them as adults: are they bad people? Great show!! Super fun to speculate on id suggest it for any mystery thriller fans
36:32 the worst part is, i was following some of the chatter from comic fans when the show aired, and starting in episode ONE (1) people figured that Agnes was AGatha HarkNESs from the name alone.
You mentioned Legion and Doctor Who as references for a good example of a mystery this show could have followed, but there is actually another, already MCU connected show they could have looked at too if they weren’t too proud to include it in the canon - Agents of SHIELD season 4! Season 4 of AoS is the best season of the show, and each section, “pods” as they’re called, focused on a new story. The first one was “Ghost Rider,” the second was “L.M.D. (Life Model Decoy)” and the third was “Agents of Hydra.” For “Agents of Hydra,” it showed the characters enter into a new reality where they all worked for Hydra and were unaware of what was happening. The show took its time to explain it, and kept the mystery alive until the characters had worked out what was happening! It was a very fun set of episodes and something WandaVision would have benefited greatly from revisiting for reference. On that, if you haven’t yet - definitely check out Agents of SHIELD. It’s a really great show, at least seasons 2 - 4! I’d recommend for sure!
My whole beef was that WandaVision led us into thinking Mephisto or someone (Dr. Strange?) commanded by Mephisto was setting everything up for Wanda with Aggie playing the quirky Drop-In Character because Mephisto's watching Wanda play around in the world and using/puppeteering her power the longer she's in it, only for Monica to catch on and try to rescue her but Wanda is too consumed by grief to want to leave/so sucked into the "sitcom" that she tries to stop her, thinking that it's her "time to have fun." Instead, nope. The sitcom was *all her fault.* The commercials weren't Dr. Strange at all, *nope.* Also, your mystery is bad if by the 4th episode where SWORD pops in it immediately hijacks the rest of the show to the point where you forget it originally began as a sitcom pastiche.
I see a lot of your points, and I agree that the show would probably have been stronger if it was more of a mystery. I didn't go into it expecting much of a mystery personally, but I can see how making it one would have been compelling. There is just one point I'll contest you on. When you mention Agatha playing her role too well, specifically in the scene where Vision "wakes her up". When I watched that scene, personally, it immediately told me that the fan theories were true and that Agnes was lying about who she was. Because compare her waking up to Norm. Norm gasps and looks around, asks Vision what day it is and where he is, panics, talks about needing to get in touch with his sister about his sick father. Agnes? She immediately starts talking in this really hammy awe-struck tone that just sounds so fake to me, which I feel was most likely on purpose for this exact reason. I mean think about her reaction. The first thing she does is realize that she's talking to The Vision and ask if he's there to save them, then does the overly dramatic "You're dead!" shout over and over again before laughing and saying all is lost. It's so corny, I immediately bought into the idea that it was Agatha putting on a show, partly for the fun of it and partly to see if she could get any more hints of information from Vision. Sorry to ramble on about that, I just love that detail of that scene, and sometimes it feels like I'm the only one who sees it since I've seen no one else bring it up, everyone seems to take that scene at face value.
Legion is one of the best shows I've ever seen and is one of the best examples of doing surrealism without making it completely incomprehensible or too blunt and obvious. It hit such a good sweet spot where you still feel disoriented, but you feel grounded somehow in the dream of it all
wandavision's 'mystery' angle was so bad i genuinly didnt even think they were going for that. i thought it was just a cash grab fluff show. though i did like it
Marvel ripping apart WandaVision of all of it's personality is the most disappointing thing I've ever seen, it had potential to be a very good mystery show with tints of horror.
This was a masterful examination. Earned a new sub with this. And the 1st season of Legion WAS amazing. Too bad the remaining seasons never reached that level.
I can agree the first season is the strongest, but seasons two and three are by no means weak. Season two is a bit obtuse, and I didn’t feel I’d fully appreciated it until my second watch, but it builds to a stunning conclusion. And while season three is perhaps a bit too goofy, it’s playing with some fantastic ideas. The time eaters are terrifying!
My jaw dropped when they revealed that Scarlet Witch was The Scarlet Witch. I didn’t see that coming.
Ik I'm 2 months late but it wasnt meant to be a plot twist for fans
Nobody ever called wanda the scarlet witch in the movies before
"No way!"
reiterating what foxy said yet two months later, it was also a moment of character development for wanda. She didn't even know she was the scarlet witch or what that meant for her.
Also when they show us that Vision is Vision, but _not_ Vision... But it's totally Vision. But in true it was Wanda all along.
I'm three years late but that still made me snort 😂
Thank god I wasn't the only one confused by the "Agatha All Along" twist I thought I was missing something...but it turns out the show was
i really enjoyed this analysis and felt similarly about the show! The last show that made me feel this way was the BBC Sherlock series, similarly in how they created a "mystery" that the audience could never solve, only to create an unsatisfying plot that mocked the audience along the way
I never made that connection but it's brilliant actually. Sherlock never intended to reveal Reichenbach definitively. Both seemed so mean-spirited to their audience. Joke on people for caring I guess.
Agreed. I love both shows but the fun of a mystery is being able to follow along as an audience member. The “I knew it!” Is a great feeling, so is “wow! I never would’ve expected that!” when looking back and recalling all the clues you didn’t notice. “What? How was I supposed to know that?” Is just frustrating.
That is bad writing on Moffitt's part. 😅 the UK has an amazing list of detective mysteries that focus in the mystery (not all are dark either, some have great humour) and the fact they didn't get a good writer they fully had access to for it broke my heart. There is a reason why Midsummer Murders have been going for years - and it's not because of terrible writing😅
"There's an idea in classic mystery fiction called 'Not A Fucking Boomerang!'"
elaborate
@@jknifgijdfui It's an hbomber guy reference
, so it isnt actually an idea in classic fiction
@@videogamee6037 what does it mean regardless
@@jknifgijdfui its a reference to a bs sherlock holmes mystery where the murder was found to be done with a boomerang the audience had no way of knowing about. It refers to a mystery purposefully hiding information to make solving it impossible.
@@jknifgijdfuiIn Hbomberguy's video on "Sherlock" he talks about an episode/scene where, from nothing the audience could have known, Sherlock and Irene Adler conclude that a man was killed by a boomerang.
Having now watched WandaVision, I wonder why they didn't simply go all the way with Agatha mind controlling Wanda into creating all of this, creating events to stress her out to trigger her evolution into The Scarlet Witch to then steal her power or something like that. You can still explore the grief aspect, as people are very often more vulnerable to be taken advantage of in their grief, and you can still stage the entire thing like it was Wanda All Along - because it was, just someone else would be pulling her trigger. Maybe Wanda even accepted a deal from Agatha like she presents in the finale, so Wanda can still have all that guilt. It would have cleared up Agatha a bit too, whose actions seemed....really bizarre. Like is this a therapy session or are you trying to steal this witch's powers? What's the point of helping Wanda confront her demons and sort through her trauma and...make her more powerful because shes healing? I know Agatha was all "omg when did you take the steroids and where do I get some" but the way she spoke to Wanda, backhanded or no, really reminded me of a therapy session LOL I could handle the fucketry of the timeline if that'd been smoothed out a bit.
damn dude thats a really good idea. Been racking my brains as to how they could have tweaked the story so that it would actually work and couldn't come up with anything myself until I read this.
I agree with your changes to the plot. It was definitely rushed to hell and back so they could pump it out fast (especially during the pandemic, which I feel really fucked with a lot of work needed for these shows and movies to be the cinematic masterpieces they were intended to be)
agetha didnt control hershe manipulated her with the idea
i think agatha is so incredibly poorly written, and it’s such a shame they wasted katherine hahn’s talents for such a mediocre character. anyways, can’t wait to watch agatha all along and her fifty thousand wardrobes or whatever the fuck they wanna call it now
Hell, they could've framed it as Agatha approached Wanda to help her, as a way to help Wanda gain some form or closure and live out a life she wanted, where she could be normal.
Agatha could frame it was "I'll handle choosing the location, just try to not use your powers too much, to get used to living a normal life"
And then comes the reveal that Agatha was siphoning away Wanda's powers, and preparing for Wanda to ascend to being the Scarlet Witch, but something goes wrong. Maybe Agatha needed Wanda unaware that it wasn't real so she did a memory spell, but it wasn't complete and Wanda begins remembering. Maybe Vision, being incredibly insightful, notices something is wrong and after he finds he's unable to leave he tried to tell Wanda.
And then you can lead into Multiverse of Madness by saying that Agatha planted a curse on Wanda so that, if Agatha ever leaves a certain vicinity of Wanda (say, the maximum distance between 2 points in westview, which is the maximum distance of her siphoning spell) it will begin to drive Wanda insane, twisting her perceptions and memories so that she'd cause her own destruction.
Agatha could have been good. What I first thought she was, and which would have fitted, is for Agatha to have been made a fake outside villain by Wanda. She was at a point of the illusion getting cracks and needing a scapegoat to ease her guilt and Agatha turns up at the perfect time. Wanda creating herself a villain that is behind the bad things would have fitted so well. It's a pity Agatha was real.
Such a better idea! You’re right. That would’ve fit so much better.
When Agatha was revealed at EXACTLY the moment that Vision was starting to figure it out, this was the theory I had and was rooting for. ‘Invent a generic supervillain so Wanda is not the bad guy’ would have been a much, much, much better twist than ‘YOU ARE THE SCARLET WITCH!!!’
This video makes a lot of great points about the problems with WandaVision’s mystery, but the biggest problem with Agatha as the final villain is that she shouldn’t have been. The antagonist driving the problems of the story was WANDA all along. She abducted and brainwashed hundreds of people as magical grief therapy, but the show uses Agatha to make someone else the bad guy in the situation (even though Agatha’s evil plan targets Wanda, not innocent people).
Imagine how much more satisfying WandaVision could have been if its main conflict was between Wanda and Vision, with Vision realizing what the love of his life has done and trying to break through to her. Instead we got CGI energy blasts in the sky. And also those kids singing in the Doctor Strange movie.
Not having seen the show myself but having picked up on broad details through osmosis, I always assumed that the main conflict WAS between Wanda and Vision. I didn’t even know about Agatha until watching this video and yeah, that makes this show look structurally disappointing from where I’m looking.
@@Poodlestroop Worst part was that I was watching a better usage of the Darkhold side by side in Agents of Shield.
they way wanda fell under her own spell instantly upon seeing vision if front of her gets me in the heart everytime
"Silence in the Library" is one of my all-time favorite Doctor Who episodes!!!
Mine too such a great who done it episode
Probably in the top-ten best stories, classic and modern.
wouldn't it have worked better if it *wasn't* "agatha all along", but that was wanda's doing, as in, wanda put the blame on agatha for causing all of this instead of having go confront her guilt about it? but no, wanda's the hero, they can't make their hero do bad things in her own show, we can make her evil later in dr strange tho, i think i never actually saw that movie
The thing is she still did do bad things. Even if she didn't mean to, she mind controlled an entire town. Then she didn't even apologize and she didn't get arrested. She just walks away with no consequences.
@@bobafettjr85 no that’s what I’m saying
@@rowandunning6877 Oh sorry. I misunderstood what you were saying.
I can't help but think that the Mephisto theorizing was basically in reaction to WandaVision's poor quality of mystery. If the fans only had what the show offered to work with then it was bound to be a negative experience for a lot of people but the theorycrafting carried the show because the audiences were looking for a mystery within the mystery, things that weren't easy to guess since the majority of the fan base already knew the plot of the show before the third episode.
The fans were expecting way too much of the writers
Imo you're right that the mystery plot would have been better served with monica as the detective from the beginning, and they could have still done the different sitcom styles while she was investigating. The who comparison was good at illustrating that point. Agatha maybe should have been left as something like a post-credits scene to set up the next installment. Idk.
Episode four should have been an X-Files parody of trying to find Monica and uncovering the conspiracy to hide what happened to the town as the government didn't want to scare a population already afraid after Thanos and the end of the world. Then had the reveal that it was reality but left it ambiguous that the effect of the town was bleeding through into the real world.
It’s a great show, but a horrible mystery. The core audience (die-hard Marvel fans) clocked both Wanda being behind it all and Agnes being Agatha Harkness long before the show even premiered.
well i didn't know that agatha character
the second one was only clocked by comics fans. And as stated in this video, comics knowledge is not something the whole audience has (especially not the general/mainstream audience)
As someone who has seen zero MCU content except wandavision (I was bored and the old tv shows are what I watched growing up without cable). I had no clue what was going on at the end lol which def ruined it a bit for me personally but obviously that’s more a me issue I guess? I mean it would be nice if the show could be a self contained story that doesn’t require a lot of lore to watch but. Whatever. I didn’t clock any of the mysteries but I had no hope of doing so. I did dislike how they moved off the Wanda perspective to the agents perspectives because I found them confusing and boring. I wanted it to be just Wanda’s side. Not the outsides side. Or at least a more clueless outside like how I would feel in that position. Instead it was an agency that knows the main characters already so that did spoil a few small things here and there that I wouldn’t know going in.
So yeah. Not a good standalone show but also it wasn’t made for me.
@@Zelda00Gamer thank you, i can indeed just skip this one. Im happy ppl had fun!
I really didn't like the Agatha reveal because the only reason people see it coming is because she's a character from the comics who uses magic and is associated with Wanda. I never read the comics, but I was aware of the theories, so I was actively looking for signs of foreshadowing. But not only was the reveal not built up at all, the story actually tries to throw you off by having "Agnes" do things just to make herself look innocent to the audience that don't have any internal logic to them. It's like in Frozen when Hans smiles dreamily at Anna when she's not even looking at him so it doesn't make sense as part of his manipulation of her, it's just to fool the audience.
Kang in Loki was a similar deal. Guy completely comes out of nowhere, relying on your knowledge of comics to get the satisfaction of an "I knew it!" rather than putting any foreshadowing into the show itself. If the show were a self-contained original property and you didn't have outside knowledge and expectations coming into it, and it was purely about Loki's character arc and not a vehicle for introducing new characters and concepts to perpetuate the MCU with, the most logical thematically appropriate reveal would've been that it was another Loki variant who was in charge of the TVA, not some rando introduced at the last minute who Loki has no connection to.
8:13 case in point, that example would have been an acceptable solution in a mystery taking place in the world of Who Framed Roger Rabbit.
Like... the rules of that world is that toons can only break physics for comedic effect, "only when it's funny", so imagine the perp escaped through a door drawn on the wall then deliberately had an accomplice also try to run through it but slamming into the wall, there you have the joke. Then the accomplice either erases the door as best as they can or hides it behind a shelf or something.
The Agatha thing is wild because comic fans clocked Agnes as Agatha almost immediately because of some stupid broach she wore in one episode.
In the same breath comic fans we’re getting annoyed with the set up of the show and LOVED episode 4 for explaining what was going on, so if the goal was to satisfy MCU fans then they arguably did. But like everything in the MCU it’s not really for casual viewers even if it’s more welcoming then other MCU shows.
I personally think Mephisto was going to be the villain but Disney wanted to swerve the audience because they assumed all MCU fans are obsessed with TH-camrs and their theories when most aren't
That's an extremely small niche audience and to try trolling them messed up what they were gonna pay off
And they already had a villain that could of not only paid this off it could of gone right into the Multiverse of Madness
Mordo Baron, he's connected to both Dr Strange and Wanda in the comics and we already know he hated anyone messing with time magically, so he could of been revealed to manipulate Wanda into causing this hex to prove the world needs less socrcers
Hell, even have him and Agatha have an alliance which again works in the MCU and comics fans would love it because they had many alliances in many comic arcs and it fits in the MCU because Mordo expressed many times he thinks messing with reality and time is bad and has serious consequences
Wouldn't he be even more livid that Wanda and Stephen are just using magic for personal gains on the levels they've gone when he was upset at Stephen just using the time gem to manipulate an apple?!?!?
One of my biggest pet peeves with Disney is how they have yet to pay him off or even hint to him coming back
And killing him off in MOM (In a deleted scene) was a big fu to all the fans who were invested in his arc built up in the first Dr Strange movie
I did enjoy he was an illuminati member however
I actually found that moving the sword twist reveal episode to after the Halloween special fixes almost all problems. I watched through by skipping all sword scenes then went back and skipped all sitcom scenes. It worked very very well. Cause then the sword stuff works to contextualize events we've already seen.
i wonder if theres a fan re-edit out there
The thing is, I don't think WandaVision ever could have been a fair mystery. A good portion of the audience are comic book readers, and thus, everything that's ever been in them can be seen as introduced before. Casting the Other Pietro was unfair, because it got people to expect something it never intended to pay off on, and used its metanarrative element to throw people off track. It didn't play fair, but it never could win.
Plus, how many times have we heard stories of the audience figuring out the mystery ahead of time and discussing it online, only for the writers to specifically go, "Aw man, they guessed it! We have to change the answer now!" Detective novels never had this problem, because the mystery was all in one book, and people couldn't discuss it with one another between chapters. Even if they did, it generally wasn't going to change. With the internet, though, fair mysteries seem to have disappeared.
I actually don't think fairness need be affected by what the audience actually knows, though I concede many writers nowadays seem to think it does. Of course you want to surprise your audience and it's a shame if that's ruined by sources outside than the show. But above all the most important thing is that your story should work as a story. It needs to build to a satisfying conclusion regardless of whether or not your audience already know what that will be. It can still be satisfying to watch a spoiled story--otherwise nobody would rewatch anything--but not it the story isn't well constructed. And there's always going to be some portion of your audience who don't go on the forums or are watching years from now and haven't been spoiled.
@Kaylee Jazz wandavision and afaik every MCU Disney+ show was released on a weekly basis, not all at the same time as with netflix
@Kaylee Jazz The show was released on a weekly roll-out, 1 new episode each week.
Mystery books used to be released chapter by chapter in magazines. People did used to discuss them in their parlor rooms.
@@JamesWoodallagreed. And Pretty Little Liars is a great example of OPs point and your point. PLL dropped a lot of hints about who the big bad of the show was. Honestly some very on the nose ones (Aria of course). And yet when enough traction picked up on Twitter about the Aria as A theory the show runner and writer Marlene King seemed to change the ending to smite that. She wanted an unsolvable mystery and I think she even mentions this on Twitter at one point?? Which is so bad and dumb. So it had one of the worse TV endings ever that’s still memed on to this day. It’s the kind of ending fans regularly ignore or rewrite. It’s horrible and ruins the fun of a mystery show with-I kid you not-a secret unknown twin separated at birth. Fun.
You said you were having fun with the edit... you were not lying! 😅
thank you for not spoiling legion btw, I had never heard of it before, but now I really want to watch it, so I was a bit nervous you would reveal the mystery
In the first draft I did, but then I realised I didn’t need to. And I’d much rather intrigue people to seek out such a great show!
@@JamesWoodall much appreciated
Same!
This! What you have shown has gotten me wanting to watch it now! :)
@@JamesWoodall just when I needed some new shows to watch :)
I low key really hate when a TH-cam channel spoils a secondary show or movie when reviewing or critiquing the primary material.
A lot of content creators don’t give a damn.
This perfectly described the issue I felt I had with the show but couldn't put into words! I was never surprised by anything other than the existence of Agatha, but I've never read the comics and didn't know I was meant to be looking out for a 3rd party. After her reveal, I was so hoping she was somehow a fake "bad guy" made by Wanda's subconscious to justify Wanda's actions (because it wasn't Wanda, it was Agatha, who is actually Wanda, yadda yadda), because then it would've been a mystery for no one to figure out but the audience.
Love the videos you have so far and can't wait for the next one! ♥
I love that you brought the amazing "Silence in the Library" episode into the mix. You're so right that this should be the standard Marvel should try to achieve. Thank you for this brilliantly made analysis/video essay. I thoroughly enjoyed it. A German Whovian
Honestly. the premise and the hook is so well done, so interesting, the set up is great..and then the ball drops soooo hard.
Indeed, it kinda kills the rest of the show for me if the pay-off isn't good, and the pay-off for Wandavision is extremely poor
6:10 oh my god the way I felt that in my soul. Thank god Knives Out saved my love for detective dramas because that whole season of BBC Sherlock made it shrivel up and DIE inside of me for YEARS.
You make a lot of fair points, though I still enjoyed WandaVison, there was some room for improvement and telling a better mystery.
I think Marvel focused more on the emotional backbone and the setup for future releases and didn't focus enough on the art of a well told mystery. Maybe that was intentional or maybe they are revealing a story telling weakness of theirs... Time will tell I guess.
Well produced video btw, edits and animations were very enjoyable.
This aged well
To me, the real subversion would be to twist the source material. If the writers were bold enough to not make it out as Wanda herself crafting the Hex-field but truly instead be her under some form of manipulation, and have Agatha be behind all that, it would’ve been much more appealing. The source material is a widely known reference to the show, and having the show actually built on it and built on subverting it the same time would probably have been more interesting.
A really fun whodunit is tony winning The Mystery of Edwin Drood, based off of the unfinished novel of Charles Dickens. An engaging story, where the audience decides the murderer each night, and they have a song recanting their motives, some of them being tounge and cheek saying "It makes no sense, but you voted for me.".
I'm SO happy you did Legion. I love that show beyond any other, it really feels like it's too forgotten because it was a Fox thing and not released by Disney. If Disney actually did release it, it would have made more waves
i feel that once people became unsatisfied with wanda vision's ending, that it was a sign that the MCU was starting to dwindle in popularity.
As soon as I saw "The Library" I was like "ahh, Doctor. Too bad thats not it. I've never heard of The Library show.." and then I hear David Tennant's dulcet tones!
6:43 I was taught that this was meant as, If a foreigner with customs that a reader is unlikely to be familiar with appears in the story, either, said customs aren't important (then why make it a foreigner), or said customs are important (then you're basing an important part of your story on something that the reader is unfamiliar with and will take a great deal of time to explain, and if you take a great deal of time to explain, there's an expectancy that that person must be quite important to the story)
This harkens back to hit 4th point
It's unfair for the detective to say something like, "Oh, the word 'thing' is actually supposed to be a word in another language that means 'girl', so this sign was actually the victim telling us that the girl was the killer" in the big reveal, for instance.
Though I was also taught that these rules... are more like suggestions
11:50 I mean theres also the clue that Wanda says "no" and it rewinds immediately after. That is a clue that she has some form of control. For the sake of argument.
And the fact that the boss’ wife directly addresses Wanda and tells her to “stop it”
He addressed that at 13:40
@@aemcpthat is far too vague for anyone to conclude it was wanda. She could have been asking wanda to stop whoever is causing the anomaly, since they are avengers.
Mon ami! Hercule Poirot himself in the thumbnail. Have a cookie! :3
you can do the "same mystery from the outside and the inside" thing well, my favorite piece of fiction of all time, umineko when they cry does exactly this. it sets up a mystery with 18 people on an island who all die, showing multiple seperate interpretations of how the story could possibly go from an internal perspective, and also shows the perspective of someone from the outside, 12 years later, as ange, the sole surviving member of the family (due to being sick during the family conference where everyone died) tries to figure out what really happened the day her whole family died. it's an incredibly phenomenal story and i highly reccomend everyone reads it.
Sounds fun. I might check it out
You’ve precisely explained why I didn’t like WandaVision as much as I wished I could have. I wasn’t familiar with Wanda or Vision ahead of time, so I wasn’t having to bridge that gap. But even as a stand-alone, so much seemed to be over explained, or completely unexplained, so by the end - when the “gotcha” was happening, it just seemed like a throwaway.
I wish Marvel treated their media more like adaptations and stopped trying to full the comic-reading audience. Just like book readers already know the ending, they aren't going to the movie to be shocked or surprised, they (we) just want to the story come to life. The fact that WandaVision was already based on a comic story should have warned them that comic-readers would know. A mystery is still satisfying if you already know the answer because you get to more clearly see the pieces on the way. In fact, I would argue that a good mystery is even more satisfying the second or even third time around. I love rereading Miss Marple's Thirteen Problems not because of the characters or plot, because there isn't much of either, but because I discover new details that point to the solutions or red herrings all along the way.
I was SO surprised to see Legion mentioned here - an absolutely great example to use for comparison that I don't often seen brought up in discussion about superhero media in general. I think it also is important within this discussion about mysteries because it refutes the idea that a comic book series can't keep mysteries from hardcore fans - the way in which the series weaved and interpreted storylines (Especially in season 1) kept it fresh for non-comic readers and X-men fans alike.
Edit: Also noticed you defended s2/s3 , really cool seeing that - I agree Legion sometimes gets too over its head for its own good (especially in season 3) but I honestly think the philosophical concepts structure of season 2 and the way that affects the story going forward is brilliant and deserves more credit.
This is also why I hated the villain reveal in Frozen so much. They intentionally added misleading evidence of Hans's innocence, not to mention that his motivations for his behavior only made sense if he was a good guy.
The Hans reveal may not be the most sophisticated twist in cinema history, but I don't think it's unfair, in the Knox sense. I'd say it's actually quite predictable.
Narratively, we're primed to think of Hans as the "wrong guy". The trolls sing a whole song about it, and both Elsa and Kristoff remark on how unwise it is to marry somebody you just met, because does Anna really know Hans? So when Anna goes to Hans for an act of true love, we've already been setup to expect she's wrong.
I don't know what evidence you consider misleading, but red herrings and misdirection don't necessarily make a mystery unfair. Pre-reveal Hans is characterised in way that makes him appear noble and honourable, but can be read a different way once we know his true motivations. 'Love is an open door' is about how in-sync Hans and Anna are, but the truth is he's just agreeing with whatever she says so he can convince her to marry him. Hans handing out cloaks and caring for the citizens of Arendelle makes him appear charitable, but he's just currying the favour of the public he hopes will accept him as King (and also so they won't suspect him of murder). And he repeatedly states his intention to go out to find Anna and Elsa, repeating how dangerous it is for them, which makes him seem gallant but actually he just wants to get them alone so he can stage an accident that will be believed.
The truth is there if you're looking for it. We know Hans has 12 brothers, so can infer that marriage into another kingdom is his best shot at power. And he never actually says he loves Anna, he only talks about loving Arendelle. "I've been searching my whole life to find my own place." He doesn't want her, he wants a place he can own.
Unfairness is about omitting crucial details, making the truth impossible to see. Disguising the truth as something else is fair game.
@@JamesWoodall
There's various small instances where they attempt to paint him as an extremely sweet guy when no one is around to watch him (which they really didn't need to do). Even if he just changed from having a warm smile to a blank/stoic expression once everyone left, that would have been good enough of a "clue" to his true nature. Or at least don't show him while he's alone at all if they refuse to do that.
But the biggest instance of him not behaving in way that made sense was during his attempt to "arrest" Elsa.
First of all, we learn later that he was always planning to kill Elsa, even before she ran away. He wanted to marry her at first, but since she was unreceptive, the plan switched to marrying Anna and then staging an "accident" for Elsa.
Once Elsa ran away, his plan was shifting a bit. Anna ran off after Elsa and had already put Hans in charge, so now all he has to do is try to find some way to make the marriage between him and Anna binding (so for now he needs her alive, until later when he doesn't), and besides that, he only needs to keep feigning innocence while secretly attempting to get Elsa killed without it being tied back to him.
So, naturally, when he goes on the trip to "arrest" Elsa, he would not be opposed to Elsa being killed during the struggle, as long as he was not seen as the direct culprit.
Sure enough, a chance for her to die is presented: a man is pointing a crossbow at her, and she's so busy dealing with other captors that she doesn't notice him. Hans is the only one who notices the bowman.
Instead of doing the natural thing for his motivation and letting the guy try and kill her, he runs over and intervenes. Even if the script demands that she doesn't die, they could have written Elsa noticing the bowman at the last moment, or some other distraction causing the guy to miss. The script did not require Hans to step in, and yet that's what he does.
His intervention causes the chandelier to fall instead. Some people attempt to make this itself purposeful on Hans's part, but it makes no sense. An arrow to the heart is not any less likely to be deadly than a falling chandelier. Elsa does end up surviving it, after all. So there's no need for him to see that as a better murder method, especially as such a death would be more directly tied to him due to it being caused by his actions. It was sheer luck that she didn't die, so his hands were "clean."
And as far as we know, no one would know he didn't step in to save Elsa from the bowman. And even if someone was watching him, Hans could have simply pretended to try and stop the bowman but ended up being "too late". And he could pretend to be all guilt ridden that he "failed her" and garnered even more sympathy and support that way.
In any case, that is probably the most glaring problem, but not the only one. And there doesn't seem to be any purpose behind it accept to mislead the audience.
@@Lady_de_Lis I don't recall many scenes where Hans is on his own, you may have to jog my memory. But you're right that stopping the crossbowman from killing Elsa is an odd choice. As is attempting to talk Elsa down as she's about to murder the Duke's henchmen. If he'd just let that happen, it'd turn the people against her further without him having to do anything that might implicate himself. So you're right his behaviour seems a little unconvincing here.
However, in the next scene between Hans and Elsa in the prison cell, Hans urges Elsa to end the winter. Perhaps the idea is that Hans wants to fix Arendelle before killing Elsa--there's no guarantee killing Elsa will unfreeze his desired kingdom after all--so his intention may genuinely be to arrest her at that point, thinking he could decide the best course of action once Elsa was safely in a cell. (I think severing the chandelier was not his intention either, a genuine accident).
Even so, you're right this is a little clunky. Hans is clearly a cautious plotter, but it's not established that he doubts killing Elsa will solve the winter. And I'm sure they could have gotten that across by having the Duke and the townsfolk leap to that conclusion and having Hans oppose it in a way which seems like he's defending Elsa.
As for making his marriage with Anna binding, I think that was his original intention, but, as you say, his goal shifted. Elsa refuses to give her blessing to the marriage, so that plan is by no means guaranteed. And Anna leaving him in charge makes him the best thing the kingdom has to an heir. We can even see the moment he realises this. He tells the dignitaries he wants to go out to find Anna because "If anything happens to her..." the unspoken part being he's worried he might lose his connection to the throne. But a dignitary says, "If anything happens to the princess, you are all Arendelle has left." Suddenly, it's clear they've forsaken Elsa and are already considering him as next in line. It's only then he knows for certain killing both of them will guarantee his rise to power.
Again, it's not the most sophisticated and you're right, it's clunky. I do agree that Hans as a character often feels restricted by the narrative, unable to behave in the way most natural to him because it would spoil the reveal. But because the clues are there and because it is possible to make an interpretation of his actions that kinda make sense, it is not unfair in the way Wandavision is.
@@JamesWoodall
Just to clarify, I don't claim it's as unfair as Wandavision. Just that I think it was unfair.
Wandavision is certainly worse. But that could partly be because Wandavision has more time to make more problems than a film does.
Regardless, Frozen sticks out to me because it just so happens to be the first film I saw which was unfair in it's reveal. There have been more since, but it holds a special place for me for that reason. (And I don't even dislike Frozen. I actually really like the movie. Just hate how the villain was handled.)
before you said the solution in the doctor who story I paused the video and watched it myself, it was worth it
Shoutout Arrival. One of those rare sci-fi blockbusters that doesn’t have planet lasers or alien armies, we just get people cracking codes.
This is a great video, it does a really good job explaining why Wanda vision was so bland despite having a lot of really good components that should have worked in theory.
I honestly believe they could have saved this show in editing with a couple of reshoots to shuffle the motivation of the characters. You have Agatha be the main cause of everything, basically she's manipulating Wanda through her grief to draw out the Scarlet Witch, and from the outset we can follow sword and have them slowly discover the sitcom. By episode 2 we can have a full sitcom episode and then we can trade back and forth between the two styles. Shift the focus away from wanda as a main character that instead have vision be our main pov character for most of the series; this would set up wanda to be a red herring and it would allow us to discover who Agatha is and what the powers of the Scarlet witch are in a more organic way before the reveal. Since the mystery is now focused on the town, we could pull some other D list marvel magic characters out and sprinkle them in amongst the people in the town to better hide Agatha as a main villain. Sword and vision can kind of discover all of these magically powered characters are being drawn to this area, and they can give us a rundown on their powers by organically working through each one. Now we have more suspects instead of just Wanda or Agatha and so when it's finally revealed that it was "Agatha all along", it's more impactful because there are plenty of other characters from the comics hanging out in town.
The other alternative is just to ignore the mystery all together and instead make the show about grief. There's a great self-contained series of comics on Wanda and vision which was actually used as inspiration for the show. The comics are more about the emotional state of these characters and how they deal with these difficult situations rather than some grand mystery. There is a mystery but it's not as important as the character moments. Just make it a small character story through the lens of sitcom and have a simple overarching mystery that slowly unfolds over the course of the story.
You put so much work into these videos, I hope more people start subscribing and supporting you!
When there was the whole thing about Agatha, even though I haven't read the comics I was like "mmm...okay?" And then she was defeated like the next episode so what was the point and when Agatha was like "The Scarlett Witch!😦😳" I was like...yeah? Obviously, don't we already know all of this? Why is this supposed to be shocking?
Oh wow, I discover your channel only yesterday, and here's a whole new video! ^.^
I personally find it annoying how Marvel seems to cater to the comic fans at the expense of movie only fans. Like, someone who already knows who Agatha is can still enjoy the mystery if it's written well; knowing the twist doesn't ruin the story, if that were the case we'd never rewatch anything. But writing poorly just to throw people off who already know everything ruins it for everyone!
As much as I agree that WandaVision did not do a very good job with its mystery, I disagree that its premise was flawed and unworkable from the start. I think that both viewpoints, both from the inside out and the outside in working in parallel could've yielded and incredibly interesting mystery.
Rather than have Sword show up three episodes in and have to play catch-up with things we already know, they could have cut back and forth between both perspectives. Each team would work on two different aspects of the mystery, alternating which one gets the clues, slowly getting closer and closer until they meet in the middle and find the solution. When they first introduced Sword, I actually thought they were going to continue the show in this manner with Sword on the outside trying to get in and Vision on the inside trying to get out. I think that it could've built up some incredible tension for when the two teams finally meet, and made for an ultimate "ah-ha" moment.
I truly think that if the first Sword episode was interspersed throughout the first few, then it would've been a much more interesting and entertaining mystery.
john im so glad youtube put your devil wears prada video in my recommended! loving the channel, can't wait to see more.
also i'd love to see what other TV shows you're into! how to get away with murder is one of my favorites and i feel like it did mystery and suspense very well, but i'd love to know your take.
Ok, but when are you writing the Murder Mystery about the Cyborg Cat from the Future?
I've had a similar thought about an episode of doctor who and a marvel movie.
Doctor Strange ends with him spending what I think was intended to feel like an eternity of him being killed by Dormammu but they dwell on it for 2 minutes before Dormammu just gives up.
In the episode Heaven Sent of doctor who, they do so much better at communicating an eternity gone by and the sacrifices the doctor is willing to make.
16:27 I am SO HAPPY you brought up Legion as an example of this style of mystery done right.
And I really appreciate this video overall. Wanda Vision was some of the most fun I’ve had watching a MCU tv show - for the first few episodes. When the big reveal was revealed it was such a letdown. I actually stopped watching for awhile. Eventually I finished the series and it felt like I had made a mistake and watched the latter half of an entirely different show.
I like what you’ve done here because you raise every point that came to my mind - and then some - but you’ve done it far better than I ever could. You’ve effectively put words to the general feelings I had about the show. Something was wrong with Wanda Vision, but I couldn’t quite suss out what it was. Now I get it. It broke so many rules and conventions that I hadn’t even known about. But you don’t have to know about rules like Knox’s for them to be impactful. If many other good writers have followed these conventions, and if you’re familiar enough with these types of stories, then it can be a sort of sixth sense when you encounter a story that doesn’t include them. I really enjoyed how the show experimented with the medium, because I love that sort of stuff, but I hate hate hate how they dumbed the story down as much as they did. They totally ruined an otherwise amazing concept. Like everything Disney touches, this was a disaster, and it’s such a shame because it had so much promise.
James, I discovered your channel some weeks ago and watched your Devil wears Prada video (and it's amazing!). I clicked this video thinking "HEY but I liked Wandavision so much even though I'm not a Marvel Fan", but I loved this video. Like you said, it's a change on Marvel narrative but still, could be improved. Great analysis! I learn a lot with your videos :)
I love all of your video essays, this one is finishing off my binging of them! I hope you continue, these are all great!
(If I may posit one criticism; during the grainy film-reel sequences in this, there's a subtle but present and steady high-pitched tone that's a big trigger for tinnitus/auditory issues!)
The fact that I saw this video title and went "Wait, it was supposed to have a mystery to it?" says a lot
Looking back, it would've made alot more sense if Wanda created the Hex but Agatha fuelled her fantasies in order to keep her there and steal her power. That way the early reveal of Wanda creating the Hex would be supplemented by the secondary mystery of "Who is trying to keep her in the Hex" that Sword and the audience would be trying to solve. Wanda slowly realises what she did and begins to wake up, but Agatha would be disrupting this and SWORD's attempts to free Wanda which would play into the "Agatha All Along" theming.
It feels like this is what they were trying to go for, but needed a valid reason for Scarlet Witch to become a villain. The obvious route would be Wanda being angry at Agatha, but then there's no reason for her to turn evil against everyone else. There are two story lines that conflict with each other and both suffer trying to compensate for the other.
21:13 See, at the time, I *did not believe* the solution in Episode 4. I wasnʼt convinced it was wrong but I didnʼt take her word for it either. Because there was still evidence against it at that point, still some mysteries that didnʼt add up with that explanation. And some of those are explained by it being Agatha All Along and some of those really were Wanda despite the evidence we had to the contrary.
I never really considered WandaVision to be a "mystery show", even though there were a lot questions posed. It never really has any of the aesthetic trappings of a mystery and I didn't expect a mystery going in, so really these unanswered questions not having their clues onscreen never bothered me.
I don't consider WandaVision to be "bad at mysteries", because why would I even expect it to be "good at" them in the first place?
I know the video is old and this commentary probsbly will be forgotten, but I really want to say that this video is really good, it helped me understand lots of things from back when the show was airing and why I couldn't make those around me fully interested...
And also gives me the perfect change to recomend that, if anyone wants a good supernatural mystery that also plays fair (extremely fair, you'll understand if you watched it) and has the time for it, Umineko: When They Cry, is one of the best examples I could ever think of that, specifically in it's novel version for PC, not the TV adaptation
Eyyy I was just thinking about bringing up the when they cry series as a good example of a supernatural mystery as I was scrolling through the comments, glad to see someone else thought of that too
very very well made, and finally an explanation that covered my feelings
same here! i enjoyed watching the show sure but i didn’t get any satisfaction and this video explained why i felt like the show dragged for a bit
It took me this long to find the time to watch the video and OMFG, it was great! I don't do the MCU (though I love 90s X-Men and the FOX movies - well, the good ones), but this video having media criticism, Poirot, Doctor Who AND a 'do better' attitude... *I think I'm in love* :D
My favorite new channel! Easily.
I love Legion. Glad you brought it up!
It would've been really cool if Agatha was sort of a twisted hero of sorts, someone who knew all of what Wanda was capable of but instead of stealing her power wanted to contain it. So, she followed her, befriended her, and pushed her grief past the breaking point so she would create this fantasy sitcom to keep her busy and make Wanda keep her own powers dormant in the pursuit of a domestic life. That would explain why she was always trying to keep the truth away from Wanda and Vision and make her a much better antagonist.
I haven’t watched the video yet, so there’s a good chance you will bring this up. I feel that they played their hand way too soon. In episode 3 or 4 when the woman wakes up after getting expelled from Wanda’s world they explain nearly everything and pivot into an action show. I feel the mystery would have worked better if the reveal happend two episodes later and if some of the cameos happened sooner, like the woman from the thor movie. These changes would have added more to speculate and scratch our head over, but also make the mystery feel like it was actually important and not ham fisted to have a sitcom romp for 3 episodes
You put into words EXACTLY what my issue with WandaVision was. Overall, I loved the concept and the way they could play with styles of filmmaking and general expectations/knowledge about sitcoms to further the mystery, but none of it landed for me. I appreciated that they got weird with it, but it felt like they still didn't have the freedom to get weird ENOUGH to make it work, still confided by the overall Marvel story. But I had a hard time explaining exactly why it didn't land and why most of my interest evaporated after episode 3. This is such a great breakdown and fully puts into words exactly what I thought about this series. Great video!
As far as mysteries go, in my opinion Westworld season 1 and 2 is absolutely legendary. Not to spoil anything too much but these guys were showing us two different time periods/timelines and we didn’t even realize it until the end. Many others will agree but it’s honestly so unique and creative that even those same writers and producers couldn’t duplicate it (season 3 and 4 are…unfortunate?) I’d love to see the notes written down while they were figuring it all out, lol that must be like reading a schizophrenics journal
15:15 This greatly bothered me on my initial viewing of WandaVision. I was new in the mcu, had just watched all the movies and shows. My brain was running on all the logic of all those previous shows, with no comic book knowledge. So when the Agatha reveal happened... I was super confused. (The scene with Agatha being strapped to the pole). I was wondering if Wanda had suddenly changed the genre of the show, if this was a new trick. Massive confusion all around. I felt like I was watching a different show or maybe I had missed an episode.
*Then* I realised the show was serious, witchcraft is a thing in this world. Magic that was different from Dr. Strange exists. And Agatha is a witch, an antagonist.
It was so out of left field, it knocked all my immersion away and I had trouble getting back into it during the whole finale.
When this video started I screamed "there better be some poirot in this!" and i was not disappointed ♥ such a good video and such good points! I enjoyed WandaVision a lot but I have to agree with what you're saying. You have articulated a lot of things that felt off about the series. Great job!
Poirot? 🤔🤣
The way the nailed the evolving voice of sitcoms through their era, making each form tonally resonant to the characters and story while also being funny, was more than enough. By the time they were hurling fireballs in the sky, praising Scarlett for releasing innocents from mental slavery, with a big goofy twist, that seemed like tacked on fan pandering. But they told a great story with style to spare to that point. Pop storytelling doesn’t always peak at the end, and we shouldn’t let its value be discounted for that reason. There are great movies that don’t stick the landing.
I felt like the writers/showrunner wanted to do one thing, the studio wanted to do another. I never felt like the point of the show was the mystery. It was Wanda going through the stages of grief. But because of Marvel’s storytelling method for the MCU, it had to ask some questions that could be answered in later instalments.
Also, fans really just fucked themselves over by completely losing themselves in the whole Ralph Bohner thing. They were expecting a cameo/crossover when it was just another representation of Wanda’s grief.
TL;DR - Wandavision is bad at mystery because it never tried to be a mystery. It fell victim to comic book fans not understand TV storytelling and following their own unrealistic expectations instead of what the acual show was giving them. It’s a common problem with superhero media derived from comics.
I can only explain this with the hindsight of having seen knives out, but at the time I was watching, wandavision stopped being a mystery and started being about following the thriller of how will Vision escape, or How Sword will save the people. The mystery elements became extra flair on top of the other genre of fiction I was watching. There are still criticisms to be made in how this genre flip, it's not a perfect show by any stretch, but it worked well enough when I was watching
Thank you for this comment! I think it's odd that people would assume this show was just failing at being a mystery... like Y'ALL. The point of the show wasn't the mystery, but the exploration of what grief can do to people and how Wanda has gone through so much loss and how it's finally broken her but also led her to her power.
Me, knowing full well I'm stupider than Watson: ....Uh oh.
Also those Poirot sketches were hilarious. The entire video was very well formulated and put together, and your logic was well formed and presented. I remember thinking while you explained the mystery rubric that clearly the BBC Sherlock showrunners could have used a good dose of that, instead of throwing it out the window like they were, seemingly, too smart for it. Thank you! Good stuff.
I thought it was only supposed to be a superhero comedy action show. Did not knew it was supposed to be a whole mystery thing.
I agree bro.
On first viewing, I really liked wandavision, and I think there was enough there to make a compelling show.
But I’m second viewing, the cracks are much more visible.
It sucks because it had so much potential, but like you said, it spoils itself at times and has reveals that really didn’t have anything leading up to them.
Excellent analysis. Of course what you didn’t realize at the time was that WandaVision was just set-up content for The Marvels content and for the next Doctor Strange content, and probably not worth anyone’s time or engagement
Thank you!!! I've been looking for a video like this, I HATED wandavision but had no idea how to explain why
One thing I found myself doing was constantly comparing this to the show "Kevin Can F Himself." That series had a great mysterious feeling, and did an amazing job of switching perspectives. Though it wasn't a mystery, the dark tone of the activity off screen reminded me a lot of SWORD aspects of WandaVision.
How on earth do you only have 42.8 K subscribers? Your content is amazing!! Keep it up
When you said "this style of supernatural mystery has worked before" I honestly thought you were talk about the Madoka Magica movie
I’m so glad you brought up Doctor Who! When I first saw the trailer for WandaVision I immediately thought of the Silence in the Library episode and how well done and heartbreaking it was
It’s a crime you only have four videos up. I’d love to see you deconstruct Cruella, Mulholland Dr, Robert Altman, 2046, Spike Lee, and what the hell happened to Ang Lee’s career.
I think that maybe you are conflating a mystery with that, which I, at least, have dubbed a “Puzzle Show.” To my mind, the first Puzzle Show (or at least the first I paid attention to and that probably elevated and concretized the form, is Lost. Lost presented a LOT of clues. And it invoked science, the supernatural, true crime, and more. It didn’t really want to “play fair.” Anyone who was dispassionate enough knew that we were never going to reason out what the smoke monster was until they told us what the smoke monster was. Maybe there wasn’t a Watson (they all seemed to occupied with survival-Lost is also Robisonade to care about truly piecing everything together. But we were, and as interactive web, media, and eventually social media emerged, we were actually real-time real-life Wastons. Now, Lost truly did not play fair (and I argue that Lindelof did not play fair in The Leftovers or in game of Thrones either-in the last to disastrous effect.) This is not because it was a bad mystery; it was a bad puzzle. It had many pieces, and we expected those pieces to connect, so that we could see the full picture, but the hard part is not solving the mystery; it’s that we needed to catalogue all the clues. They would be explained-we thought. Instead, plot threads were dropped, presumably as red herrings-of which you should have at most only one. And of course, non-diagetically, we were told they weren’t dead, when they clearly all died of the nuclear explosion in Season 4 and spent the rest of the show reconciling that with their eternal psyches. But I digress. The problem is that this started a trend, where people were always trying to “solve” a show at the mere mention of an as yet unexplained detail. Sometimes, these questions were only meant to last for a week or two. Don’t try an solve it, just keep watching. But the facebooks and reddits of the world simply wouldn’t let this happen. Filter that through the fandom obsession with the ICU, and you’ve got WandaVision being mistaken for a full-blown mystery. When really it was a puzzle show… we’re going to see the whole picture once we catalogue all the edge pieces and fill in the picture. The picture will be revealed. So just catalogue clues and enjoy the ride. If you predict the ending, all the worse for you, because you now think the whole thing is predictable. I don’t think WandaVision ever asked you to solve the mystery, just ruminate and sit with questions like you might do with any good drama.
Finally someone talking about Legion.
It is my favorite show and as I once said;
the best we'll never get again.
Thank you.
I always figured the show creator took a look at that vision comic where he's living in suburbia with a vision family, and was inspired by the sitcom vibe from that to take it literally and be a sitcom show. Every episode would pay homage to a different sitcom era, and there wouldn't be any intrusion from reality until the final episode. But they could only get 3 episodes of that past the execs, before they were forced to bring in the whole external perspective because the execs couldn't understand what the fuck was going on. The whole show stank of that kind of top-down interference. In the end we had a standard laser-beam battle between superpowered individuals... I bet that wasn't the ending the creator originally wanted.
I feel like it was most likely a great concept ruined by studio interference. They didn’t trust audiences to keep watching the slow burn the first few episodes promised. We need cameos, quips, fight scenes, and an unambiguously evil villain.
As someone who did not exactly watch the Marvel movies, I genuinely enjoyed the mystery, because I didn’t know anything about Wanda and Vision. So I suppose this series is for someone like me, who is yet not very familiar with the Marvel universe. I believe that’s why they actually explain what happened in the movies through the series.
Great video. Very enjoyable to watch.
My main question; What happened to the bee man after the rewrite?!
I have the same question! He’s never mentioned again!
A wizard did it!
Oh, such a nice vid, I'm very happy to find your channel!
Love and support from Russia
Really good video, thanks. I love the idea of "playing fair", as an escape game designer I always try to use it in my puzzles. I often say that if it's a good puzzle, players want to kick themselves after solving it, but if it's a bad puzzle, players want to kick the person who created it.
I wasnt near my phone, just listening via bluetooth, and suddenly I hear my favorite doctor saying "The library!" a line from one of my favorite episodes, out of nowhere. Well done in making this whovian stop everything she's doing and smile 😊😊😎
Eh, I loved Agatha as a villain. You can’t really complain that she acted for the audience's benefit because, well, there literally was an audience watching Wanda’s sitcom within the show. And I think her demonstrating all the ways she failed to nudge Wanda awake was to emphasize just how deep in denial Wanda really was.
My only complaint about Agatha is that she felt like a performer after she revealed herself. As in, I felt like she was purposefully making herself out to be worse than she really was for whatever reason. But I guess that’s just a testament to her acting skills, lol.
An example of a mystery told from different sides- one of my family’s new favorite shows is Yellowjackets. The story follows a girls soccer team who’s plane crashed in the canadian wilderness and whom, presumably, resorted to cannibalism. It follows them in the wilderness and them as adults 20 years later. But the whole time you are trying to figure out what happened in the forest: who died, how did they live, who got eaten, how did they get rescued. And youre falling further and further into the question as you see them devolve in the wilderness and see more of them as adults: are they bad people?
Great show!! Super fun to speculate on id suggest it for any mystery thriller fans
36:32 the worst part is, i was following some of the chatter from comic fans when the show aired, and starting in episode ONE (1) people figured that Agnes was AGatha HarkNESs from the name alone.
so just watched all your videos, so excited to see what comes next, we need more creators with an objective brain, thank you for doing this work
This video is fantastic and deserves sooo many views. Come on algorithm!!
You mentioned Legion and Doctor Who as references for a good example of a mystery this show could have followed, but there is actually another, already MCU connected show they could have looked at too if they weren’t too proud to include it in the canon - Agents of SHIELD season 4!
Season 4 of AoS is the best season of the show, and each section, “pods” as they’re called, focused on a new story. The first one was “Ghost Rider,” the second was “L.M.D. (Life Model Decoy)” and the third was “Agents of Hydra.”
For “Agents of Hydra,” it showed the characters enter into a new reality where they all worked for Hydra and were unaware of what was happening. The show took its time to explain it, and kept the mystery alive until the characters had worked out what was happening! It was a very fun set of episodes and something WandaVision would have benefited greatly from revisiting for reference.
On that, if you haven’t yet - definitely check out Agents of SHIELD. It’s a really great show, at least seasons 2 - 4! I’d recommend for sure!
My whole beef was that WandaVision led us into thinking Mephisto or someone (Dr. Strange?) commanded by Mephisto was setting everything up for Wanda with Aggie playing the quirky Drop-In Character because Mephisto's watching Wanda play around in the world and using/puppeteering her power the longer she's in it, only for Monica to catch on and try to rescue her but Wanda is too consumed by grief to want to leave/so sucked into the "sitcom" that she tries to stop her, thinking that it's her "time to have fun."
Instead, nope. The sitcom was *all her fault.* The commercials weren't Dr. Strange at all, *nope.*
Also, your mystery is bad if by the 4th episode where SWORD pops in it immediately hijacks the rest of the show to the point where you forget it originally began as a sitcom pastiche.
I see a lot of your points, and I agree that the show would probably have been stronger if it was more of a mystery. I didn't go into it expecting much of a mystery personally, but I can see how making it one would have been compelling.
There is just one point I'll contest you on. When you mention Agatha playing her role too well, specifically in the scene where Vision "wakes her up". When I watched that scene, personally, it immediately told me that the fan theories were true and that Agnes was lying about who she was. Because compare her waking up to Norm. Norm gasps and looks around, asks Vision what day it is and where he is, panics, talks about needing to get in touch with his sister about his sick father. Agnes? She immediately starts talking in this really hammy awe-struck tone that just sounds so fake to me, which I feel was most likely on purpose for this exact reason.
I mean think about her reaction. The first thing she does is realize that she's talking to The Vision and ask if he's there to save them, then does the overly dramatic "You're dead!" shout over and over again before laughing and saying all is lost. It's so corny, I immediately bought into the idea that it was Agatha putting on a show, partly for the fun of it and partly to see if she could get any more hints of information from Vision.
Sorry to ramble on about that, I just love that detail of that scene, and sometimes it feels like I'm the only one who sees it since I've seen no one else bring it up, everyone seems to take that scene at face value.
Legion is one of the best shows I've ever seen and is one of the best examples of doing surrealism without making it completely incomprehensible or too blunt and obvious. It hit such a good sweet spot where you still feel disoriented, but you feel grounded somehow in the dream of it all
wandavision's 'mystery' angle was so bad i genuinly didnt even think they were going for that. i thought it was just a cash grab fluff show. though i did like it
Marvel ripping apart WandaVision of all of it's personality is the most disappointing thing I've ever seen, it had potential to be a very good mystery show with tints of horror.
This was a masterful examination. Earned a new sub with this.
And the 1st season of Legion WAS amazing. Too bad the remaining seasons never reached that level.
I can agree the first season is the strongest, but seasons two and three are by no means weak. Season two is a bit obtuse, and I didn’t feel I’d fully appreciated it until my second watch, but it builds to a stunning conclusion. And while season three is perhaps a bit too goofy, it’s playing with some fantastic ideas. The time eaters are terrifying!
OH MY GODDD I absolutely LOVE Legion, I screamed when you showed it!!!!