I really liked when Sony made "in canon" TikTok account where Betty Brant just interviews Spider-Man's friends and all. Builds up more on story and promotes movie at same time.
It feels weird hearing fans complaining when things aren’t connected or very little cameo. I rather see a story where our hero grow than a universe grow with underdeveloped characters
The thing here is, part of this comes from Marvel's original past marketing themselves, I remember when "Everything is connected" was being mentioned as a thing when ABC's Agents of SHIELD had to adjust its show to tie its events to Captain America: The Winter Soldier given SHIELD's collapse. They don't use this specific marketing anymore -- at the cost of Agents of Shield characters never appearing in the MCU though -- but it seems the hype culture is trying to force this hard on people especially on Phase 4.
It’s sad too when you think about the fact that one of the strengths of Marvel is that the universe is so vast. Like silver surfer and the punisher exist in the same universe, that doesn’t mean I need to see them team up. Things can be connected without being connected
I didn't like multiverse of madness for other reasons but the thing I love about it was that it kept it's focus on the heros and didn't bank on the cameos, it felt like the illuminati were the only thing Disney and feige had raimi shove in like what happened with venom in spiderman 3.
this is exactly how I felt, watching the batman. remembering that a movie really could make me gasp and sit on the edge of my seat just off of good filmmaking rather than with cameos
I didn't wanna bring in DC into the subject but whatever, I just wanna point out how Peacemaker utilized the JL cameo in its finale brilliantly. There's no hype bait and absolutely NOBODY saw it coming. They were more focused on making a solid story for the real stars of the show first and when those guys did show up they became nothing more than the butt of the joke, which might rile some fans up for sure but it worked in the context of Peacemaker's story where they had been setting up gags upon gags revolving the JL members (Aquaman fucks fish rumors etc.) and when they showed up for Peacemaker to deliver the punchline it was goddamn satisfying. The buildup was not to set up their appearence but rather the punchline itself, giving the joke a satisfying payoff, which I think James Gunn really excels at in his stuff whether it's the Guardians movies or his DC projects. Bottom line, solid story > cameos and senseless hype culture
That was always my problem. I felt like NWH could've gone so wrong so easily because of the load of cameos they have. I felt like maybe the focus wouldn't be on Tom's Peter. But thankfully it was a good like focus on Peter learning what it means being a superhero, that he will always risk those close to him to danger. And now everyone just wants cameos. Even Secret Wars, people just assume that it would be a cameo fuckfest. Like I've seen people say that it's like Endgame, but multiverse.
I think MCU fans have - in recent years - become super easy to satisfy.. like cameos are enough for them to dismiss bad writing and a weak movie - if a character or actor they recognise shows up.
Tjis is the same people who feel like MoM was disappointing, because they expected Tom Cruise and Tobey Maguire , and nowhere did they even make reference to that
@@tailedgates9 I’m not necessarily an MCU fan but from what I’ve seen from it’s fans I feel like there is a 50/50 split on them one half of the fanbase are normal people that aren’t fanboys and the other half are fanboys that won’t accept anyones opinions if they disagree with them.
@@PeterGriffin11 I feel like there's 3. Haters that no matter how good an MCU property is, they'll find something to hate on for content, or they love Marvel for the hate ig. Then like you said the fanboys who don't accept any opinions, and the normal viewers who really differ in opinions. So 2 extremes and a mid ground you could say.
You've got the point pretty well. The MCU has become an industry that needs to make as much profit as possible. They prefer quantity over quality, and they are abusing of cameos and hype to try to fake the lack of ideas and interesting plots
@@GalazyProductions you know why those stories work? Because, even if they take inspiration from real life and talk about a certain group that faces oppression, anybody, I mean ANYBODY can relate to the characters on a basic human level. You feel their pain, you empathize, you understand their struggles and pain. Unlike modern writers who simply write their stories for a certain demographic who oftentimes does not even buy their product and alienates fans, shove their ideology down peoples throats, and won’t even take criticism into consideration because it’s “bigotry and hate”, no, it’s the inability to write a coherent story with likeable characters
@@cthulhutentacles4994 It just grinds my gears when people say Marvel has become "woke" its literally always been woke, I was making a joke making fun of that.
Another aspect of hype culture that I feel is damaging all films not just the MCU ones is the need for spoilers. People want to know the entire film now before they even go see it. I made a conscious choice to avoid spoilers with Dr. Strange 2 and I wqas so happy that I did. It was great going into a film knowing almost nothing about it. I think thats going to be my standard approach from now on. Even trailers are starting to spoil too much of the plot lines. I miss trailers that didn't give a lot of information but rather gave a feeling of that the film's tone and idea was going to be. (Force Awakens first trailer is still a master class in how to do this btw).
Dude the best parts in Multiverse of Madness is when it's trying new things, such as fighting with music, possessing your own dead body, all of the horror scenes from them escaping Wanda, it's so good and that's what saved the movie for me because the hype of it was only on the cameos
And then you use your brain and realise how much of a plot armor the characters had. Two of the greatest Wizards decide to fight with music, where we as an audience who are not wizards, have no idea how dangerous the music notes are. Wanda kills more than 50 people BRUTALLY and then stops to give an exposition dump on the audience instead of killing Strange and Wong, which leads to Strange escaping with Chavez. A dumb scene, while is cool looking or whatever, if you use your brain Strange and Chavez constantly escaping was stupid, instead of having the plot move forward on its own they forced it to move forward by pushing it rather than letting it flow on its own
@@jaypaul15 that's valid criticism dude, I actually agree with you, but my opinion isn't changed, because what I like about movies is enjoying the ride, it's a bummer it had this particular script, but Sam Raimi directing, visuals and also the performances save the movie a lot, I just hope Michael Waldron isn't in Marvel's future anymore, because without the other factors it could had been a really generic movie
I saw Multiverse of Madness in theaters with my friend. It had been a LONG day and he was so tired that he fell asleep in his chair right about the moment where Dr. Strange and America are knocked unconscious by the tea. He woke back up in the middle of the fight scene between Wanda and the Illuminati. I quickly explained to him that they were some alt. universe Avengers and that's all it took for him to get back into the loop. He quite literally lost nothing and understood everything from there on. That entire cameo quarter of the movie could have been removed and the story pretty much stayed the same.
I feel like Shang-Chi was the only movie where the hype wasn’t crazy, delivered its project well, & went about its way to the next thing without going crazy or relying heavily on cameos.
To be fair about Jake Lockley, even in the comics he’s the most violent and brutal of the personalities because he was essentially created by Marc coping with the people he has killed over the years. I do actually like that his existence is kept as a mystery throughout the show, but I definitely agree having his grand reveal in the post credits scene was a little wonky. But I totally agree that Phase 4 has been sacrificing its own quality for the sake of build-up and hype.
I also liked that Jake was kept as a secret. I didn’t see it as an attempt at “building hype” but foreshadowing for a cool plot twist at the end. I just hate that the twist eventually became extremely obvious, cut away from action so many times, and could’ve been undone if Mark/Steven just…thought about the situation for more than two seconds.
I’m just tired of it. I want a film that I’m going to look back on as one of the greatest superhero movies and have nostalgia for that. I don’t want a movie that copies and pastes those moments for fan service. I want a movie that creates new moments or if we’re going down the nostalgia road, at least make new moments with it. P.S. 8:45 my source is that I made it the fuck up
@@dylansharp8471 tired of a focus nostalgia bait and cameos, that focus on what made a previous story great, instead of making a story that focuses on making new moments for me to look back on in nostalgia and if it’s going to use nostalgia bait, don’t make it rehashes of stuff that was already done way better. Hope that clears it up
@@papabear6611 well, we are in a phase of MCU where multiverse is being explored and discussed, so expect more cameos and nostalgia shits in future MCU projects lmao
When I went into MoM, I didn’t care about the cameos and bullshit rumors circulating around the internet. I just came into it wanting a campy fun Sam Raimi superhero horror film and that is exactly what I got.
Fair enough if people didn't like the movie with actual valid criticism, but those people who called it trash simply because those bs rumours of tobey maguire or tom cruise not appearing were beyond stupid.
@@iammatthewdavid03 Can I ask you to name a movie that is simply a "Cameo fest"? I see this word thrown around, and as someone who wanted those crazy cameos, I would like an example of such a movie that doesnt work
I’m actually HAPPY that there weren’t more cameos in Doctor Strange, I appreciate that Raimi was able to keep the focus on Strange, America, & Wanda. I would’ve been mad if the Illuminati stuck around for much longer because it’s not their movie, and Raimi got to take them out in the coolest way!
I was never keen on the cameos so my expectations were at ground level and coolest ways indeed were their demise. But I ended up asking, should they be such specific characters? And as they are, must they be treated as plain canon fodder? For example, in 'The Usual Suspect', Benecio del Toro's Fred Fenster only exists to be killed off, to establish a sense of threat. Del Toro, knowing this, came up with Fenster's unique speech pattern to make him more memorable. On top of it, his friend McManus mourned him and demanded that he be buried. In comparison, Captain Carter's catchphrase is exactly the same as Steve Rogers's and she didn't seem to care for the deaths of her comrades. I enjoy 'Multiverse of Madness', but my appreciation is on Raimi, as well as the cast. The MCU formula was actually working against him; while not too jarring, it's still noticable.
I agree. The way they were taken out was kind of a cool “oh shit.” moment showing Wanda’s power and kind of heightening the danger of her a little bit.
I definitely relate to this. As a die hard MCU fan who's watched every film, all the Netflix shows (fuck me, even Iron Fist), Agents of Shield, Runaways, most of the Disney+ shows and shit even Inhumans, I always look forward to new releases. However, recently I can't help but feel somewhat fatigued by MCU films. As you pointed out, their overreliance on cameos and hype is getting rather frustrating. On top of that, I feel that both issues are symptoms of the MCU's major issue (in my opinion), their overreliance on interconnectivity. I honestly think that the MCU is becoming so obsessed with references and call backs and cameos from existing characters that it's taking away from the individual stories. It would be cool to have the X-men in the MCU. It would feel cheap and kinda corny to have their origins tied to something like the snap. These stories should be able to exist on their own. Audiences should be invested in the characters and stories first before their used for crossovers and introduced to other big name characters. It also just cheapens and lessens the impact of those crossovers when they happen nearly every 5 minutes. Anyway, that's just my two cents.
@@fqwgads Agreed. Though I see it more in their Marvel shows on Disney+. I at least think the cameos in the Star Wars shows feel a bit more connected to the plot, but still an issue nontheless. But, I think the MCU is starting to crack under the weight of the success of their interconnected universe. I just want more standalone stories that are self contained and feel genuinely different and sticks to it's tone. Like, I'm really worried about Blade. I was so looking forward to that movie but now, I am worried they'll just stuff with MCU cookie cutter formula. I don't want Blade making quips every 5 mins. I'm not saying he can't be funny or have funny moments, he just needs to be allowed to be a serious character. I'm also really put off by the PG-13 rating 😥.
They rely on cameos because we are in the MULTIVERSE SAGA don't you understand that? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ It's simple, yet you can't even comprehend lmao how silly 😂😂😂😂
I disagree about the interconnectivity. Phase 4 is the one that has the most amount of seemingly unrelated, and sometimes completely unrelated plot points and shows. It's branching off from the 1st 3 phases when it comes to single narratives. Ms. Marvel for example is one of the BEST, and most solid Disney plus show because it was so unconnected.
Oof that is too real a criticism and I agree, even if the writing outside of it has still been pretty great for like No Way Home of Multiverse of Madness
No way home is great but flawed(when you really get into the nitty gritty of it) 8/10. Doctor strange 2 is meh, 6/10 writing, like i know theyre trying to make me feel for wanda but i just cant, literal mess of a character, i could think of ways to save chavez, like i dont know, send her falling like what he did to loki until they deal with her(strange is literally op like that, it makes you want to think of what he cant do, magic should really be used considerately and conservatively, or else youll have plotholes), hell i think he couldve done that to wanda cuz even she needed assistance from wong to open a portal because she cant open portals(from what ive seen anyway, havent seen wandavision, all disney plus shows are meh anyway, moon knight kinda wasted), that aside it is better than black widow and eternals, ill give it that. The mcu is dipping so fkin hard rn, its honestly sad, the mcu really needs a hiatus of 2 years to think this through, have a clear plan, and stop hiring underequipped, unimpressive writers or literal activists to write and direct; give more freedom to directors.
Great video. The memefacation of cinema is tricky. At LOTR screenings there’s now big laughs and giggles at “one does not simply walk into Mordor”, “they’re taking the hobbits to Isengard”, and “Po-ta-toes”. Obviously not intentional by the film makers, but it’s a weird meta experience.
I seem to be the opposite of most people in that I actually appreciate that Sam Raimi didn’t primarily use the multiverse as a way to shoehorn in cameos, but rather on alternate versions of Strange, Christine, & Wanda that reflect their journeys
I remember when Marvel said that you wouldn't need to watch the shows in order to be able to follow what's going on in the movies but that very quickly went out the window with WandaVision... THEIR FIRST SHOW. If I hadn't seen a single episode of WandaVision, I would have been so lost and confused by Wanda's story in Multiverse of Madness. I'm to the point now where I don't even really care about watching every show they put out or even every movie. I really hope Thor Love and Thunder doesn't rely too heavily on the Guardians being there because that trailer actually got me excited.
to be fair I will say I remember when that was said people were upset because they thought what's the point of the show if it's not going to tie in and we just ignore everything in the film itself it was one of the things people said about a lot of the Netflix shows and Agents of Shield as well
Actually no Kevin Feige himself said that the shows will tie directly into some films when phase 4 was announced like 2 years ago!! idk where you heard that from maybe back when we had the Netflix shows cause they obviously didn’t tie in
For thor love and thunder i think guardians may be there only in the first 10 minutes then they will leave for their movie mision which is probably finding gamora
The reason I loved Eternals is that it’s different from the rest of the MCU and it told a story with a beginning, middle, end and character arcs. Which I realize shouldn’t be too much to ask for but it somehow is now. And I’m not even sure if it’s a good movie. But it is a whole movie.
but the problem with Eternals and other MCU films is that there is no stake. Everything is an End of the world scenario and we the audience knows that that wont happen.
funny thing is spiderverse is full of little cameos and references but you can totally watch both movies without knowing a single one of them and still thoroughly enjoy yourself. atp mcu is a series of cameos masquerading as movies and tv
I was thinking the same thing about Dr. Strange. I thought it was excellent and I think Sam Raimi gave it 100 percent but it felt like people were shitting on it simply because their fan theories didn’t come true and it was so disheartening. I like cameos as much as the next guy but when you judge a movie based on how much of a cameo fest it is, that’s when you’ve done something wrong. I even feel that the Illuminati thing would have been more effective if they hadn’t centered so much of the marketing around it and just let it be a surprise.
Dr Strange 2 and excellent, lol And it's extremely infuriating when defenders of the movie just state that lack of cameos was the reason it was hated deflecting any real criticism about this shit movie. The movie already has 5/6 cameos and wasted them, even if it had more such it would have still sucked because of the weak plot and characters.
This is probably why Shang-Chi is my favorite movie out of Phase 4, doesn’t really care about hyping up cameos and making audiences go wild, it just wants to be a good, fun movie with sick fight scenes and good character development.
I remember telling myself Tobey and Andrew wouldn’t be in No Way Home just so I wouldn’t be upset if it happened. I was worried because everyone thought they were in that the movie would be hated for not having cameos. Thankfully they were in the movie but as actual characters for the story.
I've been saying this for a full 2 years now, I'm SO glad someone's bringing the issue up. It ain't just Marvel, it's all of Disney's big IP content (Star Wars etc.). Luke Skywalker's appearance in the Mandalorian opened Pandora's box, and WandaVision sealed the deal.
Honestly, this video completely sums up why I have lost most interest in the MCU. I used to be a super fan, but after a while I realized this franchise was more interested in setting up future installments and building hype to fuel excitement and ticket sales. This is personally why I felt The Batman was so refreshing, it was a comic book movie that slowed down and explored a layered complex story with layered and complex characters. Batman made me nostalgic for the right reasons, it reminded me of a simpler time for super hero movies. Back when these types of films weren't guaranteed successes, and had to have well written scripts and sometimes phenomenal performances (there's a reason people still talk about the Dark Knight and Heath Ledger's Joker). Marvel these days just waves cameos and hype in your face. Honestly, the sad thing is that it's working, and we will probably see less and less story and character driven movies in the future for the sake of fan service.
I personally disagree about the Moon Knight criticism. I understand it, but I found the conclusion to Marc and Steven’s story to be the most important thing and for that to be satisfying in itself. The Jake Lockley reveal for me worked as a sad kind of coda where it’s more of a comment like ‘oh, they don’t even realise that they’re still enslaved to Khonshu…’. Just my opinion!
@@pewpewpew7824 It won't get a season 2, but Disney can use whatever technicality they can to make a continuation. They can just make "another limited series" for all I care as long as there is more Moon Knight
I wasn’t a huge fan of the fight scenes, actually no they were good it’s just how they were filmed and what not. But yeah if they stayed a little longer in the psych wards then yo….. awesome stuff. Can’t get over Steven grant as a character tho, what a freakin dope character to ever grace the screen. I loved all the side characters too, they were super good and marc spectre is a great character
Speaking of Moon Knight, one thing I didn't like about the series, even though I liked it a lot, was that they could've dedicated an episode of Harrow being Moon Knight, his brief history of sorts.
I liked the way they ended moon knight, I'd much rather they use the battle to hype up jake then have another typical mcu battle, and I think it's done well in that the first half of the episode it makes it seem like Marc has got it figured all out, but this moment shows that his struggles are far from over
I actually find myself agreeing with you on a lot of points here. Looking back at No Way Home, the beginning really didn't feel very entertaining and I thought the whole idea of turning the villains back into normal people felt a goofy and I was wondering why they just went along with him as Doctor Strange isn't there. Of course the rest of the movie was really good, but it did get me questioning if the movie would've been great on its own merits had Tobey and Andrew not been in the movie. I'm not saying I hate No Way Home, but the beginning really had a rough start that wasn't the most engaging.
Not hearing any hype or anything on moon knight means i appreciate the show for what it was, story wise it was great, having a bunch of gore would have hindered the story
I don’t think it was super disappointing, but I get why other people do. I don’t think it’s a “waste” though because it was just their universe’s versions of them that died, but the MCU (Universe 616) version that we’re bound to see are completely open and untouched. We can absolutely see more of them, this was just a creative way to have these actors in THIS movie and gave them some fun, Raimi-esque deaths. I’m just so incredibly grateful we got them at all and I’m looking forward to hopefully seeing more of them in the future (we know 100% they’re making Fantastic 4 and things with mutants). I’m just happy they didn’t take over the movie and Raimi was able to keep the focus on Wanda/Stephen
@@mr.moviemafia even considering that they’re alternate versions, they looked like complete idiots. Their whole role in the story was to be fodder for Scarlet Witch. I didn’t need a full deep dive on the characters, but at least make us excited to see them. They looked incompetent mentally and physically
This is so fucking true. First time i watched Multiverse of Madness the unrealistic hype killed the movie for me. On a second viewing i was able to appreciate the movie for what it is instead of for what some unrealistic rumors made it to be
Jake locke was a cool twist for me as is was more of a sad twist, as marc and steven are still trapped by khonshu and is the perfect set up for a season 2, since we've already explored marc and steven's relationship, so the next logical point is to see their relationship with jake.
After Endgame, MCU became "just making movies" franchise(except No Way Home).... It feels they're trying to make every character appear in their own series.
He shouldn't have said "I'm something of a scientist myself" in the first place, it was an unfitting cheap insert that didn't add anything of importance
This is hands-down *the* best video I've seen on what the MCU's been doing recently. I'm in very much the same camp, I enjoy these movies and and shows for the surface-level entertainment value they provide. But while I'm watching, I can't escape the feeling that all the nostalgia-baiting and cameos feel very much like they were conceived in some Marvel Studios boardroom by committee and only included to meet some mandate the filmmakers are given to appease the more hype-orientated portion of the fanbase. That being said, thanks for the great vid!
I decided to stop watching ads or engaging with fan theories and leaks before age of ultron came out and I really do think it’s helped me prolong my enjoyment of the MCU
When my sister told me i had to watch every single spiderman movie ever made in order to watch nwh I said nope and still have not watched it, because when I want to watch a movie I don’t want to do extensive research beforehand, and unfortunately this is exactly why I just haven’t been watching the new marvel movies or shows, it’s too complicated for me, someone who is not wholeheartedly invested in Marvel
Since I had to wait multiple weeks to see Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, I got exposed to a lot of the discourse and was able to appropriately prepare myself for what the movie was actually like. I knew things like: Raimi’s direction is VERY overt and your enjoyment of the movie can live or die on whether you like his style; the tone was more in-line with “Evil Dead 2” than “Spider-Man”; the movie was fast-paced with a simple plot; Strange was a more passive character that allowed for other characters to develop; and the Illuminati cameos were VERY brief (but pretty substantial). Knowing all of this going in, my expectations were humbled and enjoyment of the movie was exponentially increased. I also honestly appreciate that this movie didn’t get bogged down with shoving endless multiversal cameos down our throats, which they very easily could have done. Instead, Sam Raimi was able to use the multiverse in a more meaningful way by showcasing other versions of Stephen Strange & Wanda Maximoff to better fit the thematic arcs that they’re going through and enrich the story.
I’ve been saying this about MCU stans for a while now. Even before we knew they’d bring back old Spideys and their villains in NWH, people treated it as gospel truth despite there being ZERO indication of it. I remember fan art for the three always put Tobey front and center and Tom was off to the side with Andrew. They didn’t care about Toms story, they just wanted more of what they’ve already seen. Then not only did people complain that they didn’t get all the cameos they were “promised” in MoM, they claim that the Illuminati was wasted even though it’s a different universe that we’ll probably never see again and they have every ability to bring them back in some capacity. This trend is getting out of control. Now I’m looking at Star Wars and I’m seeing some parallels that I really don’t like. Fans not being content with seeing how the actual story plays out and just endlessly speculating about whether or not Glup Shitto is gonna make an appearance. Also PLEASE do a video on TikTok, they’ve dodged criticism for too long…
what you said about multiverse of madness is the problem i had with everyone complaining about the movie. they tried to watch it based on what tik tok and twitter was telling everyone and I just sat there wanting to enjoy a good movie and was getting so frustrated with everyone hating on it
This is part of the reason why I pretty much dumped the MCU off my movie watching list after End Game. It was an end to a story, but more importantly they were playing for spectacle. That final fight scene where all of the portals open up and all the people walk out... That was done specifically as a cheer moment not as an important part of the story, and it wasn't even subtle.
I'm surprised you don't have more views, this video was great. I totally found myself agreeing with everything you were saying. I've been noticing that the MCU isn't quite as engaging as it once was but I couldn't really figure out way. This definitely explains what's going on.
I agree with the general sentiment of the video, however I think the climactic scene in Moon Knight works super well in context. Yes we miss out on yet another cgi battle but we get a stronger sense of confusion and being lost, kinda like a horror movie.
I like to think we’ll get more No Way Home/DS2-type movies where the hype of these cool characters doesn’t get too much in the way of a still well-told story, but with how Phase 4 is shaping up, I don’t wanna hold my breath Edit: as a former RWBY fan, I appreciate the comparison because I think it highlights my grievance a little more
I hace noticed this trend even on myself. Now, when I go to see a new Marvel movie, I have expectations about cameos, connections and post-credits scenes, more than with the movie argument itself! It's pretty crazy if you think about it, you are buying a product expecting what future products are coming, instead of 100% enjoying the one you just paid for. Excellent video 🙌🏻
Ok When you do all those hype and nostalgic correctly and precisely You get Spider-Man no way home Everything about the hype and nostalgic was point on Nothing felt rushed or anything And it was not just fan service It had implications to all 3 Spider-Man And they were in the plot Man Spider-man 2 was my first Spidey film and i was Crazy From that time I was so satisfied with everything they did And that how you balance out the hype from the noise
As a big fan of the MCU myself, I whole heartedly agree with everything said in this video. I’ve liked a lot of projects in phase 4 like MoM, Loki, Shang Chi etc but a lot of the shows have led to zero pay off and set ups that I’m just frustrated by the end of the 6th episode.
I now feel guilty for being enticed to watch Multiverse of Madness because my brother told me “you wouldn’t believe who shows up” which convinced me to watch it, but I still really enjoyed the story, cinematography, the horror elements, and especially how the characters where treated over the neat cameos!
also i think this is why the reaction to Batman was the way it was, either complete love to how its own thing it was like we haven't seen in a superhero film for a long time now, or just complaining that it doesn't have "cheer" moments. this feels a lot like when sitcoms were so reliant on the laugh track that the one without didn't perform well, i mean the office was almost booted and arrested development did get booted. it's sad
Thank you, finally somebody adress this up. I really hate the new mcu film purely because they are more focussing on making cameos and nostalgia bait rather that making good film. This really started to show up at end game, but it is a big problem at no way home and multiverse of madness.
As someone who with illness Jake doesn't seem evil to me. Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to protect your system. Not to mention he only kill when others try to kill them first and Marc failed to stop them
Couldn't agree more with this video. It's exactly the reason why I stopped consuming fan thoeries on TH-cam. Just gives me an expectation coming in to the movies and when expectations aren't met, it clouds your judgement of the movie itself. I don't even watch MCU trailers these days. Even those can be misleading. One teaser trailer is enough. I know I'm still gonna watch the movie anyway. LOL. And don't even get me started with the hype-ing they're doing in the middle of the movies. They used to be subtle with it like you're gonna have to watch the movie for the 3rd time to notice something. You had to pay attention to understand references and call backs. But now it's just too blatant. I just hope they don't stay this course and go back what they were good at. Good story telling with little crumbs of references.
I said my thoughts about this on your Hawkeye video but really does suck how much Marvel's been pushing into cameos and hype recently. It can be done well if they weren't more worried about the short moments instead of lasting memories.
This. I think this is a big part of why phase 4 hasnt been working. Also the lack of something that the MCU is building towards (e.g. Phase1 builds towards Avengers) makes it tough.
I call this shit "Clap Culture" with friends. You don't wanna watch the movie, you just wanna wait until the big cameo appears and you clap at the screen.
As much as I love marvel, some needs to link this video to Feige. I really don't want the quality to keep dropping for these movies cause they've been apart of my life for so long now
I fully agree man. I won't even pretend I haven't fallen victim to this kind of nostalgia bait and hype culture. Even the rumors about Superior Iron Man in Strange 2 lured me in somewhat. And that is a valid issue now. In Captain America the Winter Soldier, there was the throwaway line Sitwell had about "a news anchor in Cairo, a high school valedictorian, Bruce Banner, Stephen Strange" and people went apeshit trying to figure out if the news anchor was Moon Knight or the high school student Amadeus Cho. And it never amounted to anything. But we still fell into hype culture around it. Also 5:53 "I don't watch RWBY" That makes two of us sweetheart
Literally MCU has received a drop in quality for the shows, but to some folks who either don't have Disney+ or haven't seen those Marvel Miniseries on the service they would feel confused and get lost on what's happening whenever they watch the latest MCU film. Not to mention it seems that only WandaVision, Loki, What If?..., Falcon & the Winter Soldier, and Ms. Marvel are so far the only Disney+ series that tie to future MCU films the former three ties to _Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness,_ and the latter two ties to the next Captain America (starring Falcon) and The Marvels. Plus, it seems that Marvel Studios seems to be focusing more on Quantity of films and shows, than on Quality.
great video! agree on so many levels. ive got friends who got into the MCU relatively late (part of the "everybody is talking about this infinty war thing" wave), and since then they discovered childhood characters like maguire's spiderman or charles xvier are in these movies, and they've started expecting those cameos and fan service moments as if that's the sole purpose of the MCU, to give them nostalgia. the whole beauty of the MCU was how totally standalone stories made character developments that connected after those have already happened, as it meant that only now our heros are ready. i do kinda disagree on one thing- the daredevil & kingpin issue. as a person who watched daredevil (and all other marvel netflix shows) when it first aired, i loved it so much that it became one of my all time favorite shows, and it did so to probably all of its originial viewers. because of that, it was very hard when the netflix shows started getting lower ratings that risked the possibility of a third season. when it finally came, although it was made as a proper ending, lots of people felt that the third season could have been even more conclusive, as it might have felt a little rushed (im pretty sure there was a lot of pressure from the netlix-marvel studios contract and all of that), and fans were left wanting more. after the final nail in the marvel-netflix universe coffin which was jessica jones third season, we finally heard confirmed news that the shows are moving to disney+, daredevil will show up in spiderman, and that Feige is being intrested in continuing the characters run, without rebooting or changing the series' plots for the sake of the broad MCU. with the hopes in mind that the gritty R rated kingpin and daredevil are coming back we got so damn disappointed with kingpin's treatment in hawkeye (which for me ruined the whole series as well as the character arc of hawkeye and kate). i allow myself for once to get excited to see them again in Echo since they deserve a propper revisiting and resolution, and compared to characters like Garfield's spiderman in NWH, daredevil and kingpin ARE marvel studios' responsability to take care of, since they're the once who broke our hearts and decided to tricked us once again into believing they'd be returning Edit: well that one got a little bit out of control, so excuse me😅
You hit the nail on the head here. In particular, some of the numerous new shows I have zero excitement for. Like Echo and Agatha Harkness shows? Yawn!
Hit the nail right on the head. I understand now why people say that these movies don't qualify as real cinema, and the stigma around being a fan of them because of the absolute cringe culture surrounding them. It's not a movie, it's a toy by Disney.
They wanted Disney+ to have a big audience and the MCU & Star Wars Franchise is the perfect gateway for that. By counting on people's FOMO, they've created an ecosystem wherein you need most (if not all) of it to understand (and maybe appreciate) everything you're watching.
If ya wanna see a video where I talk about MCU Tik Tok, let me know which Tik Tokers specifically, cuz I rarely use Tik Tok lol 😩🤌
I really liked when Sony made "in canon" TikTok account where Betty Brant just interviews Spider-Man's friends and all. Builds up more on story and promotes movie at same time.
DoomBlazer
DoomBlazer 🤓
Supes
@@dar9695 leave supes alone dude. He does nothing wrong
It feels weird hearing fans complaining when things aren’t connected or very little cameo. I rather see a story where our hero grow than a universe grow with underdeveloped characters
The thing here is, part of this comes from Marvel's original past marketing themselves, I remember when "Everything is connected" was being mentioned as a thing when ABC's Agents of SHIELD had to adjust its show to tie its events to Captain America: The Winter Soldier given SHIELD's collapse.
They don't use this specific marketing anymore -- at the cost of Agents of Shield characters never appearing in the MCU though -- but it seems the hype culture is trying to force this hard on people especially on Phase 4.
It’s sad too when you think about the fact that one of the strengths of Marvel is that the universe is so vast. Like silver surfer and the punisher exist in the same universe, that doesn’t mean I need to see them team up. Things can be connected without being connected
@@autolosss ,Also this phase has been meh.Did anyone asked for an Eternals movie or Agatha series.
I didn't like multiverse of madness for other reasons but the thing I love about it was that it kept it's focus on the heros and didn't bank on the cameos, it felt like the illuminati were the only thing Disney and feige had raimi shove in like what happened with venom in spiderman 3.
@@markmolino679 I would’ve loved an Eternals movie if Thanos was involved, but we’ll never get that now
this is exactly how I felt, watching the batman. remembering that a movie really could make me gasp and sit on the edge of my seat just off of good filmmaking rather than with cameos
Say it louder
I still think keatons batman is the greatest Batman, he’s amazing
The Batman was mid. Pretty boring. 7/10.
@@pax_sxprano cause ur used to the overstimulating crappy marvel movies
Batman is the example of what superhero movies need: Good plot.
Marvel just throws hype since the beginning, with a lot of productions
I didn't wanna bring in DC into the subject but whatever, I just wanna point out how Peacemaker utilized the JL cameo in its finale brilliantly. There's no hype bait and absolutely NOBODY saw it coming. They were more focused on making a solid story for the real stars of the show first and when those guys did show up they became nothing more than the butt of the joke, which might rile some fans up for sure but it worked in the context of Peacemaker's story where they had been setting up gags upon gags revolving the JL members (Aquaman fucks fish rumors etc.) and when they showed up for Peacemaker to deliver the punchline it was goddamn satisfying. The buildup was not to set up their appearence but rather the punchline itself, giving the joke a satisfying payoff, which I think James Gunn really excels at in his stuff whether it's the Guardians movies or his DC projects. Bottom line, solid story > cameos and senseless hype culture
James Gunn doesn't miss
Aqua man and flash ... Not JL
They were shadowed out lol
@@artin.sodaei okay I’ll give you that one lol
@@Browntable seriously, that guys is one of the best current filmmakers for comic book based stuff.
Totally agree.
Loved the Morbius cameo in multiverse of madness
I loved when he said “it’s morbin’ time” and morbed all over Dr. strange.
Dude he morbed Scarlet Witch so hard I can't wait for their rematch in Morbius 2: Morbius of Morbness
Yeezus pfp 💪
When Hawkeye confessed his love for Morbius in the final act before he sacrificed himself in the explosion of the bridge of tabitha, I morbed.
I posted the scene where he Morbs Bully Maguire on my channel 🧛♂️
That was always my problem. I felt like NWH could've gone so wrong so easily because of the load of cameos they have. I felt like maybe the focus wouldn't be on Tom's Peter. But thankfully it was a good like focus on Peter learning what it means being a superhero, that he will always risk those close to him to danger. And now everyone just wants cameos. Even Secret Wars, people just assume that it would be a cameo fuckfest. Like I've seen people say that it's like Endgame, but multiverse.
I think MCU fans have - in recent years - become super easy to satisfy.. like cameos are enough for them to dismiss bad writing and a weak movie - if a character or actor they recognise shows up.
Those cameos were the reason I didn’t like NWH and even MoM felt mediocre at best
Tjis is the same people who feel like MoM was disappointing, because they expected Tom Cruise and Tobey Maguire , and nowhere did they even make reference to that
This is why I hate normie fans being all about multiverse.
Well for starters, those weren't cameos in NWH.
"Tobey Maguire already beat his ass" should be the end of every Marvel movie.
You mean Bully maguire
This can be the MCU’s “somehow Palpatine returns”
100% agree
Marvel doesn't need cameos to make a good movie or story and it's sad to see people just expect cameo after cameo
Honestly, I would be happy if cameos ONLY happened at end credit scenes
The Marvel fandom have become so rabid at this point that it's scary.....
@@tailedgates9 I’m not necessarily an MCU fan but from what I’ve seen from it’s fans I feel like there is a 50/50 split on them one half of the fanbase are normal people that aren’t fanboys and the other half are fanboys that won’t accept anyones opinions if they disagree with them.
A time will come when no cameo would be interesting anymore...
@@PeterGriffin11 I feel like there's 3. Haters that no matter how good an MCU property is, they'll find something to hate on for content, or they love Marvel for the hate ig. Then like you said the fanboys who don't accept any opinions, and the normal viewers who really differ in opinions. So 2 extremes and a mid ground you could say.
You've got the point pretty well. The MCU has become an industry that needs to make as much profit as possible. They prefer quantity over quality, and they are abusing of cameos and hype to try to fake the lack of ideas and interesting plots
Also they have become woke and it will be a trouble for them in the future.
@@markmolino679 true
@@markmolino679 "become woke" We need the good old days of Chris Claremont's Unpolitical X-Men /s
@@GalazyProductions you know why those stories work? Because, even if they take inspiration from real life and talk about a certain group that faces oppression, anybody, I mean ANYBODY can relate to the characters on a basic human level. You feel their pain, you empathize, you understand their struggles and pain. Unlike modern writers who simply write their stories for a certain demographic who oftentimes does not even buy their product and alienates fans, shove their ideology down peoples throats, and won’t even take criticism into consideration because it’s “bigotry and hate”, no, it’s the inability to write a coherent story with likeable characters
@@cthulhutentacles4994 It just grinds my gears when people say Marvel has become "woke" its literally always been woke, I was making a joke making fun of that.
Another aspect of hype culture that I feel is damaging all films not just the MCU ones is the need for spoilers. People want to know the entire film now before they even go see it. I made a conscious choice to avoid spoilers with Dr. Strange 2 and I wqas so happy that I did.
It was great going into a film knowing almost nothing about it. I think thats going to be my standard approach from now on. Even trailers are starting to spoil too much of the plot lines. I miss trailers that didn't give a lot of information but rather gave a feeling of that the film's tone and idea was going to be. (Force Awakens first trailer is still a master class in how to do this btw).
Dude the best parts in Multiverse of Madness is when it's trying new things, such as fighting with music, possessing your own dead body, all of the horror scenes from them escaping Wanda, it's so good and that's what saved the movie for me because the hype of it was only on the cameos
The best part of that movie was the ending credits.
The best scenes in the movie was the one that is directed by Sam Raimi instead of Kevin Feige sticking his ass in.
The best part of the movie is when they finally give Steven some screen time and development, which was... hardly at all?
And then you use your brain and realise how much of a plot armor the characters had. Two of the greatest Wizards decide to fight with music, where we as an audience who are not wizards, have no idea how dangerous the music notes are. Wanda kills more than 50 people BRUTALLY and then stops to give an exposition dump on the audience instead of killing Strange and Wong, which leads to Strange escaping with Chavez. A dumb scene, while is cool looking or whatever, if you use your brain Strange and Chavez constantly escaping was stupid, instead of having the plot move forward on its own they forced it to move forward by pushing it rather than letting it flow on its own
@@jaypaul15 that's valid criticism dude, I actually agree with you, but my opinion isn't changed, because what I like about movies is enjoying the ride, it's a bummer it had this particular script, but Sam Raimi directing, visuals and also the performances save the movie a lot, I just hope Michael Waldron isn't in Marvel's future anymore, because without the other factors it could had been a really generic movie
I saw Multiverse of Madness in theaters with my friend. It had been a LONG day and he was so tired that he fell asleep in his chair right about the moment where Dr. Strange and America are knocked unconscious by the tea. He woke back up in the middle of the fight scene between Wanda and the Illuminati. I quickly explained to him that they were some alt. universe Avengers and that's all it took for him to get back into the loop. He quite literally lost nothing and understood everything from there on. That entire cameo quarter of the movie could have been removed and the story pretty much stayed the same.
Your are probably the most reasonable MCU critic man. Very unbiased and fair opinions which is very rare these days.
The trailers have been rather deceiving+the fake scoop accounts have been tainting peoples expectations
@Joshua Munn that sub is still alive.
I feel like Shang-Chi was the only movie where the hype wasn’t crazy, delivered its project well, & went about its way to the next thing without going crazy or relying heavily on cameos.
To be fair about Jake Lockley, even in the comics he’s the most violent and brutal of the personalities because he was essentially created by Marc coping with the people he has killed over the years. I do actually like that his existence is kept as a mystery throughout the show, but I definitely agree having his grand reveal in the post credits scene was a little wonky. But I totally agree that Phase 4 has been sacrificing its own quality for the sake of build-up and hype.
I never thought of Jake as evil either.
The writer said Jake is not evil.
I think he is just brutal,not evil
skipping the final fight was just stupid tho
But to be fair did they cut that in the comics.
I also liked that Jake was kept as a secret. I didn’t see it as an attempt at “building hype” but foreshadowing for a cool plot twist at the end. I just hate that the twist eventually became extremely obvious, cut away from action so many times, and could’ve been undone if Mark/Steven just…thought about the situation for more than two seconds.
Yes.
I agree 100%. Maybe it's a new strategy or something but they are loosing their originality and that hurts as a fan
I wouldn't say that.
evan peters' quicksilver standing in wanda's doorway is definitely one of the moments in the mcu
Ugh. Instead of using him to hint at multiverse crossovers and incursions, he was a boner gag.
I’m just tired of it. I want a film that I’m going to look back on as one of the greatest superhero movies and have nostalgia for that. I don’t want a movie that copies and pastes those moments for fan service. I want a movie that creates new moments or if we’re going down the nostalgia road, at least make new moments with it.
P.S. 8:45 my source is that I made it the fuck up
Tired of what?
@@dylansharp8471 tired of a focus nostalgia bait and cameos, that focus on what made a previous story great, instead of making a story that focuses on making new moments for me to look back on in nostalgia and if it’s going to use nostalgia bait, don’t make it rehashes of stuff that was already done way better. Hope that clears it up
@@papabear6611 well, we are in a phase of MCU where multiverse is being explored and discussed, so expect more cameos and nostalgia shits in future MCU projects lmao
When I went into MoM, I didn’t care about the cameos and bullshit rumors circulating around the internet.
I just came into it wanting a campy fun Sam Raimi superhero horror film and that is exactly what I got.
W, same
Exactly the same my man
Fair enough if people didn't like the movie with actual valid criticism, but those people who called it trash simply because those bs rumours of tobey maguire or tom cruise not appearing were beyond stupid.
i was really relieved that it wasn't a cameo fest. kinda why I really liked the movie.
@@iammatthewdavid03 Can I ask you to name a movie that is simply a "Cameo fest"? I see this word thrown around, and as someone who wanted those crazy cameos, I would like an example of such a movie that doesnt work
I’m actually HAPPY that there weren’t more cameos in Doctor Strange, I appreciate that Raimi was able to keep the focus on Strange, America, & Wanda. I would’ve been mad if the Illuminati stuck around for much longer because it’s not their movie, and Raimi got to take them out in the coolest way!
Agreed
I was never keen on the cameos so my expectations were at ground level and coolest ways indeed were their demise.
But I ended up asking, should they be such specific characters? And as they are, must they be treated as plain canon fodder?
For example, in 'The Usual Suspect', Benecio del Toro's Fred Fenster only exists to be killed off, to establish a sense of threat. Del Toro, knowing this, came up with Fenster's unique speech pattern to make him more memorable. On top of it, his friend McManus mourned him and demanded that he be buried. In comparison, Captain Carter's catchphrase is exactly the same as Steve Rogers's and she didn't seem to care for the deaths of her comrades.
I enjoy 'Multiverse of Madness', but my appreciation is on Raimi, as well as the cast. The MCU formula was actually working against him; while not too jarring, it's still noticable.
He took them out in a lame way don't lie. Black bolt was cool but that's about it.
I agree. The way they were taken out was kind of a cool “oh shit.” moment showing Wanda’s power and kind of heightening the danger of her a little bit.
On first viewing I didn't care for multiverse of madness but it's growing on me.
I definitely relate to this. As a die hard MCU fan who's watched every film, all the Netflix shows (fuck me, even Iron Fist), Agents of Shield, Runaways, most of the Disney+ shows and shit even Inhumans, I always look forward to new releases. However, recently I can't help but feel somewhat fatigued by MCU films. As you pointed out, their overreliance on cameos and hype is getting rather frustrating. On top of that, I feel that both issues are symptoms of the MCU's major issue (in my opinion), their overreliance on interconnectivity. I honestly think that the MCU is becoming so obsessed with references and call backs and cameos from existing characters that it's taking away from the individual stories. It would be cool to have the X-men in the MCU. It would feel cheap and kinda corny to have their origins tied to something like the snap. These stories should be able to exist on their own. Audiences should be invested in the characters and stories first before their used for crossovers and introduced to other big name characters. It also just cheapens and lessens the impact of those crossovers when they happen nearly every 5 minutes. Anyway, that's just my two cents.
I fear Disney is applying this strategy to Disney+ in general, especially Star Wars
@@fqwgads Agreed. Though I see it more in their Marvel shows on Disney+. I at least think the cameos in the Star Wars shows feel a bit more connected to the plot, but still an issue nontheless. But, I think the MCU is starting to crack under the weight of the success of their interconnected universe. I just want more standalone stories that are self contained and feel genuinely different and sticks to it's tone. Like, I'm really worried about Blade. I was so looking forward to that movie but now, I am worried they'll just stuff with MCU cookie cutter formula. I don't want Blade making quips every 5 mins. I'm not saying he can't be funny or have funny moments, he just needs to be allowed to be a serious character. I'm also really put off by the PG-13 rating 😥.
Iron Fist awesome what you talkin about?
They rely on cameos because we are in the MULTIVERSE SAGA don't you understand that? 🤦♂️🤦♂️🤦♂️ It's simple, yet you can't even comprehend lmao how silly 😂😂😂😂
I disagree about the interconnectivity. Phase 4 is the one that has the most amount of seemingly unrelated, and sometimes completely unrelated plot points and shows. It's branching off from the 1st 3 phases when it comes to single narratives. Ms. Marvel for example is one of the BEST, and most solid Disney plus show because it was so unconnected.
Yeah that’s why we need a Morbius trilogy to show everybody what a REAL comic book movie should be like!
SPITTIN
It's Morbin time
@@Browntable *MORBINN
and a morbius tv show.
morbius
morbius 2. 2 fast 2 morbius
morbius 3. more-bius
Oof that is too real a criticism and I agree, even if the writing outside of it has still been pretty great for like No Way Home of Multiverse of Madness
Great writing in No Way Home and Multiverse of Madness? Brilliant joke.
@@Inquiring if you like infinity war or endgame you can’t say NWH and MOM is terrible because they are both more character focused than infinity war
@@phantom3146 That doesn’t make the writing better? The fuck
No way home is great but flawed(when you really get into the nitty gritty of it) 8/10. Doctor strange 2 is meh, 6/10 writing, like i know theyre trying to make me feel for wanda but i just cant, literal mess of a character, i could think of ways to save chavez, like i dont know, send her falling like what he did to loki until they deal with her(strange is literally op like that, it makes you want to think of what he cant do, magic should really be used considerately and conservatively, or else youll have plotholes), hell i think he couldve done that to wanda cuz even she needed assistance from wong to open a portal because she cant open portals(from what ive seen anyway, havent seen wandavision, all disney plus shows are meh anyway, moon knight kinda wasted), that aside it is better than black widow and eternals, ill give it that. The mcu is dipping so fkin hard rn, its honestly sad, the mcu really needs a hiatus of 2 years to think this through, have a clear plan, and stop hiring underequipped, unimpressive writers or literal activists to write and direct; give more freedom to directors.
Ill let no way home slide but MoM writing was pretty ehhhhhh. But Raimi saved tf outta it
Great video. The memefacation of cinema is tricky. At LOTR screenings there’s now big laughs and giggles at “one does not simply walk into Mordor”, “they’re taking the hobbits to Isengard”, and “Po-ta-toes”. Obviously not intentional by the film makers, but it’s a weird meta experience.
I seem to be the opposite of most people in that I actually appreciate that Sam Raimi didn’t primarily use the multiverse as a way to shoehorn in cameos, but rather on alternate versions of Strange, Christine, & Wanda that reflect their journeys
I remember when Marvel said that you wouldn't need to watch the shows in order to be able to follow what's going on in the movies but that very quickly went out the window with WandaVision... THEIR FIRST SHOW. If I hadn't seen a single episode of WandaVision, I would have been so lost and confused by Wanda's story in Multiverse of Madness. I'm to the point now where I don't even really care about watching every show they put out or even every movie. I really hope Thor Love and Thunder doesn't rely too heavily on the Guardians being there because that trailer actually got me excited.
RIGHT??
to be fair I will say I remember when that was said people were upset because they thought what's the point of the show if it's not going to tie in and we just ignore everything in the film itself it was one of the things people said about a lot of the Netflix shows and Agents of Shield as well
Tbh I still haven't watched Wanda vision but I didn't feel too lost. Felt just like reading a comic book.
Actually no Kevin Feige himself said that the shows will tie directly into some films when phase 4 was announced like 2 years ago!! idk where you heard that from maybe back when we had the Netflix shows cause they obviously didn’t tie in
For thor love and thunder i think guardians may be there only in the first 10 minutes then they will leave for their movie mision which is probably finding gamora
Quality over quantity. I’ve rewatched Peacemaker more than I’ve seen Moon Knight, Hawkeye, Loki, Falcon & Winter Soldier and WandaVision combined.
Peacemaker is the best of them
It's always a good day whenever Browntable uploads a video about the problems of the MCU and how they can fix their mistakes.
People should be hyped accordingly
Yoo, was waiting for someone to cover this! Great Video!
The reason I loved Eternals is that it’s different from the rest of the MCU and it told a story with a beginning, middle, end and character arcs. Which I realize shouldn’t be too much to ask for but it somehow is now. And I’m not even sure if it’s a good movie. But it is a whole movie.
I agree same with Shang Chi they're my favorite two movies in phase four
but the problem with Eternals and other MCU films is that there is no stake. Everything is an End of the world scenario and we the audience knows that that wont happen.
omg Eternals is absolute shit I get what u are saying but man that movie was bad
The Eternals do have it's own problem, but at least it's not plagued with 'Nostalgia', 'Hype' and 'Theory' bait like newer MCU films
That cringe doesn't earn to be called a movie it's cringe
funny thing is spiderverse is full of little cameos and references but you can totally watch both movies without knowing a single one of them and still thoroughly enjoy yourself. atp mcu is a series of cameos masquerading as movies and tv
I was thinking the same thing about Dr. Strange. I thought it was excellent and I think Sam Raimi gave it 100 percent but it felt like people were shitting on it simply because their fan theories didn’t come true and it was so disheartening. I like cameos as much as the next guy but when you judge a movie based on how much of a cameo fest it is, that’s when you’ve done something wrong. I even feel that the Illuminati thing would have been more effective if they hadn’t centered so much of the marketing around it and just let it be a surprise.
Even Feige himself felt the marketing did too much, and he's the guy who greenlit everything.
multiverse madness "excellent" ???? pffffff HAHHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA
My only nitpick with the film that I wished to see more universes, but it would have ruin the story arc of America unable to use her power properly
Dr Strange 2 and excellent, lol
And it's extremely infuriating when defenders of the movie just state that lack of cameos was the reason it was hated deflecting any real criticism about this shit movie.
The movie already has 5/6 cameos and wasted them, even if it had more such it would have still sucked because of the weak plot and characters.
Yeah Dr Strange was mildly disappointing, there were parts where I feel this movie shouldve had a longer runtime to flesh out the story
This is probably why Shang-Chi is my favorite movie out of Phase 4, doesn’t really care about hyping up cameos and making audiences go wild, it just wants to be a good, fun movie with sick fight scenes and good character development.
I remember telling myself Tobey and Andrew wouldn’t be in No Way Home just so I wouldn’t be upset if it happened. I was worried because everyone thought they were in that the movie would be hated for not having cameos. Thankfully they were in the movie but as actual characters for the story.
I've been saying this for a full 2 years now, I'm SO glad someone's bringing the issue up. It ain't just Marvel, it's all of Disney's big IP content (Star Wars etc.). Luke Skywalker's appearance in the Mandalorian opened Pandora's box, and WandaVision sealed the deal.
Honestly, this video completely sums up why I have lost most interest in the MCU. I used to be a super fan, but after a while I realized this franchise was more interested in setting up future installments and building hype to fuel excitement and ticket sales. This is personally why I felt The Batman was so refreshing, it was a comic book movie that slowed down and explored a layered complex story with layered and complex characters. Batman made me nostalgic for the right reasons, it reminded me of a simpler time for super hero movies. Back when these types of films weren't guaranteed successes, and had to have well written scripts and sometimes phenomenal performances (there's a reason people still talk about the Dark Knight and Heath Ledger's Joker). Marvel these days just waves cameos and hype in your face. Honestly, the sad thing is that it's working, and we will probably see less and less story and character driven movies in the future for the sake of fan service.
"and we will probably see less and less story and character driven movies in the future for the sake of fan service"
Or the opposite.
I personally disagree about the Moon Knight criticism. I understand it, but I found the conclusion to Marc and Steven’s story to be the most important thing and for that to be satisfying in itself. The Jake Lockley reveal for me worked as a sad kind of coda where it’s more of a comment like ‘oh, they don’t even realise that they’re still enslaved to Khonshu…’. Just my opinion!
Happy it worked for you! Nw at all
@@Browntable and apparently moon knight ISNT going to get a season 2. So that sucks
@@pewpewpew7824 It won't get a season 2, but Disney can use whatever technicality they can to make a continuation. They can just make "another limited series" for all I care as long as there is more Moon Knight
@@pewpewpew7824 maybe a movie? or maybe jake will show up in a crossover
I wasn’t a huge fan of the fight scenes, actually no they were good it’s just how they were filmed and what not. But yeah if they stayed a little longer in the psych wards then yo….. awesome stuff.
Can’t get over Steven grant as a character tho, what a freakin dope character to ever grace the screen. I loved all the side characters too, they were super good and marc spectre is a great character
Speaking of Moon Knight, one thing I didn't like about the series, even though I liked it a lot, was that they could've dedicated an episode of Harrow being Moon Knight, his brief history of sorts.
I liked the way they ended moon knight, I'd much rather they use the battle to hype up jake then have another typical mcu battle, and I think it's done well in that the first half of the episode it makes it seem like Marc has got it figured all out, but this moment shows that his struggles are far from over
I actually find myself agreeing with you on a lot of points here. Looking back at No Way Home, the beginning really didn't feel very entertaining and I thought the whole idea of turning the villains back into normal people felt a goofy and I was wondering why they just went along with him as Doctor Strange isn't there. Of course the rest of the movie was really good, but it did get me questioning if the movie would've been great on its own merits had Tobey and Andrew not been in the movie. I'm not saying I hate No Way Home, but the beginning really had a rough start that wasn't the most engaging.
Another big marvel/Disney problem is the overwhelming amount of “meh” to “ok” content relentlessly being pumped out
Not hearing any hype or anything on moon knight means i appreciate the show for what it was, story wise it was great, having a bunch of gore would have hindered the story
Hit the nail on the head. What a freakin disappointment for the first appearance of Reed Richards and Charles Xavier in the MCU
I don’t see the hype for Krasinski as Mr. Fantastic, though his wife would KILL IT as Sue Storm.
I don’t think it was super disappointing, but I get why other people do. I don’t think it’s a “waste” though because it was just their universe’s versions of them that died, but the MCU (Universe 616) version that we’re bound to see are completely open and untouched. We can absolutely see more of them, this was just a creative way to have these actors in THIS movie and gave them some fun, Raimi-esque deaths. I’m just so incredibly grateful we got them at all and I’m looking forward to hopefully seeing more of them in the future (we know 100% they’re making Fantastic 4 and things with mutants). I’m just happy they didn’t take over the movie and Raimi was able to keep the focus on Wanda/Stephen
@@mr.moviemafia even considering that they’re alternate versions, they looked like complete idiots. Their whole role in the story was to be fodder for Scarlet Witch. I didn’t need a full deep dive on the characters, but at least make us excited to see them. They looked incompetent mentally and physically
they didn't belong in that movie and it shows
i loved seeing john krasinski in MoM, but Ioan Gruffudd deserved to be the mr fantastic variant
This is so fucking true. First time i watched Multiverse of Madness the unrealistic hype killed the movie for me. On a second viewing i was able to appreciate the movie for what it is instead of for what some unrealistic rumors made it to be
It's your own fault if your raising expectations beyond the scope 🤷♂️
I can agree. I really like DS:MOM now more than the first time I watched it.
You touched on so many things I've been thinking of for a while now, glad to know I'm not crazy.
Jake locke was a cool twist for me as is was more of a sad twist, as marc and steven are still trapped by khonshu and is the perfect set up for a season 2, since we've already explored marc and steven's relationship, so the next logical point is to see their relationship with jake.
After Endgame, MCU became "just making movies" franchise(except No Way Home)....
It feels they're trying to make every character appear in their own series.
He shouldn't have said "I'm something of a scientist myself" in the first place, it was an unfitting cheap insert that didn't add anything of importance
Literally
This is hands-down *the* best video I've seen on what the MCU's been doing recently. I'm in very much the same camp, I enjoy these movies and and shows for the surface-level entertainment value they provide. But while I'm watching, I can't escape the feeling that all the nostalgia-baiting and cameos feel very much like they were conceived in some Marvel Studios boardroom by committee and only included to meet some mandate the filmmakers are given to appease the more hype-orientated portion of the fanbase. That being said, thanks for the great vid!
I decided to stop watching ads or engaging with fan theories and leaks before age of ultron came out and I really do think it’s helped me prolong my enjoyment of the MCU
When my sister told me i had to watch every single spiderman movie ever made in order to watch nwh I said nope and still have not watched it, because when I want to watch a movie I don’t want to do extensive research beforehand, and unfortunately this is exactly why I just haven’t been watching the new marvel movies or shows, it’s too complicated for me, someone who is not wholeheartedly invested in Marvel
You're the best man!!
Since I had to wait multiple weeks to see Doctor Strange in the Multiverse of Madness, I got exposed to a lot of the discourse and was able to appropriately prepare myself for what the movie was actually like. I knew things like: Raimi’s direction is VERY overt and your enjoyment of the movie can live or die on whether you like his style; the tone was more in-line with “Evil Dead 2” than “Spider-Man”; the movie was fast-paced with a simple plot; Strange was a more passive character that allowed for other characters to develop; and the Illuminati cameos were VERY brief (but pretty substantial). Knowing all of this going in, my expectations were humbled and enjoyment of the movie was exponentially increased. I also honestly appreciate that this movie didn’t get bogged down with shoving endless multiversal cameos down our throats, which they very easily could have done. Instead, Sam Raimi was able to use the multiverse in a more meaningful way by showcasing other versions of Stephen Strange & Wanda Maximoff to better fit the thematic arcs that they’re going through and enrich the story.
But did he develop himself?
I’ve been saying this about MCU stans for a while now. Even before we knew they’d bring back old Spideys and their villains in NWH, people treated it as gospel truth despite there being ZERO indication of it. I remember fan art for the three always put Tobey front and center and Tom was off to the side with Andrew. They didn’t care about Toms story, they just wanted more of what they’ve already seen. Then not only did people complain that they didn’t get all the cameos they were “promised” in MoM, they claim that the Illuminati was wasted even though it’s a different universe that we’ll probably never see again and they have every ability to bring them back in some capacity.
This trend is getting out of control. Now I’m looking at Star Wars and I’m seeing some parallels that I really don’t like. Fans not being content with seeing how the actual story plays out and just endlessly speculating about whether or not Glup Shitto is gonna make an appearance.
Also PLEASE do a video on TikTok, they’ve dodged criticism for too long…
Sounds more like a criticism towards fans than Marvel themselves.
With or without cameos, MOM is still a messed shitty film with poor writings and story
what you said about multiverse of madness is the problem i had with everyone complaining about the movie. they tried to watch it based on what tik tok and twitter was telling everyone and I just sat there wanting to enjoy a good movie and was getting so frustrated with everyone hating on it
This is part of the reason why I pretty much dumped the MCU off my movie watching list after End Game. It was an end to a story, but more importantly they were playing for spectacle. That final fight scene where all of the portals open up and all the people walk out... That was done specifically as a cheer moment not as an important part of the story, and it wasn't even subtle.
"Watch product and be excited for more product"-Red Letter Media.
Your hair always looks great!
2 browntable videos only 5 days apart! This is a blessing!
Hope you enjoyed it!
I'm surprised you don't have more views, this video was great. I totally found myself agreeing with everything you were saying. I've been noticing that the MCU isn't quite as engaging as it once was but I couldn't really figure out way. This definitely explains what's going on.
not going to lie I've recently become addicted to your channel, love the way you document your thoughts on subjects, keep it up
Thanks so much, it means so much to me seriously :)
i have no idea how I’ve never came across your channel before. great vid you definitely gained a sub man
definitely agree. I'm glad that someone finally said it. thank you so much.
also. the same thing can be said about star wars these days.
I agree with the general sentiment of the video, however I think the climactic scene in Moon Knight works super well in context. Yes we miss out on yet another cgi battle but we get a stronger sense of confusion and being lost, kinda like a horror movie.
I like to think we’ll get more No Way Home/DS2-type movies where the hype of these cool characters doesn’t get too much in the way of a still well-told story, but with how Phase 4 is shaping up, I don’t wanna hold my breath
Edit: as a former RWBY fan, I appreciate the comparison because I think it highlights my grievance a little more
what is rwby?
I hace noticed this trend even on myself. Now, when I go to see a new Marvel movie, I have expectations about cameos, connections and post-credits scenes, more than with the movie argument itself! It's pretty crazy if you think about it, you are buying a product expecting what future products are coming, instead of 100% enjoying the one you just paid for. Excellent video 🙌🏻
Ok
When you do all those hype and nostalgic correctly and precisely
You get
Spider-Man no way home
Everything about the hype and nostalgic was point on
Nothing felt rushed or anything
And it was not just fan service
It had implications to all 3 Spider-Man
And they were in the plot
Man Spider-man 2 was my first Spidey film and i was Crazy From that time
I was so satisfied with everything they did
And that how you balance out the hype from the noise
As a big fan of the MCU myself, I whole heartedly agree with everything said in this video. I’ve liked a lot of projects in phase 4 like MoM, Loki, Shang Chi etc but a lot of the shows have led to zero pay off and set ups that I’m just frustrated by the end of the 6th episode.
I now feel guilty for being enticed to watch Multiverse of Madness because my brother told me “you wouldn’t believe who shows up” which convinced me to watch it, but I still really enjoyed the story, cinematography, the horror elements, and especially how the characters where treated over the neat cameos!
"Bro, that was not true at all man. I wish it was, though, shit"
- Kevin Feige
also i think this is why the reaction to Batman was the way it was, either complete love to how its own thing it was like we haven't seen in a superhero film for a long time now, or just complaining that it doesn't have "cheer" moments. this feels a lot like when sitcoms were so reliant on the laugh track that the one without didn't perform well, i mean the office was almost booted and arrested development did get booted. it's sad
Thank you, finally somebody adress this up.
I really hate the new mcu film purely because they are more focussing on making cameos and nostalgia bait rather that making good film. This really started to show up at end game, but it is a big problem at no way home and multiverse of madness.
You use humor so well in your content! The part where you called Kevin Fiege had me crying😂
I was so baffled people wanted MORE cameos in MoM. Cameos that years later no one will care about. Like doesn't being a good story matter?
Why does this have little views??
This is a good and entertaining analogy
It’s cuz it just came out, BUT PLEASE SHARE!! 🙏🙌 would help a ton!
@@Browntable I've looked at the recent uploads, they average about 30K to 100K
Although it should've 300K to 700K
As someone who with illness Jake doesn't seem evil to me.
Sometimes you gotta do what you gotta do to protect your system.
Not to mention he only kill when others try to kill them first and Marc failed to stop them
Couldn't agree more with this video. It's exactly the reason why I stopped consuming fan thoeries on TH-cam. Just gives me an expectation coming in to the movies and when expectations aren't met, it clouds your judgement of the movie itself. I don't even watch MCU trailers these days. Even those can be misleading. One teaser trailer is enough. I know I'm still gonna watch the movie anyway. LOL. And don't even get me started with the hype-ing they're doing in the middle of the movies. They used to be subtle with it like you're gonna have to watch the movie for the 3rd time to notice something. You had to pay attention to understand references and call backs. But now it's just too blatant. I just hope they don't stay this course and go back what they were good at. Good story telling with little crumbs of references.
"Good story telling with little crumbs of references"
Don't they STILL?
This isn't an MCU issue this is a modern problem in movies, it's in Star Wars sequels SO MUCH and most big franchises
yeah especially action movies
"Will I watch every show?" _(shows Agatha: House of Harkness)_ *"No."* Same. 😂
Man you are saying everything I've been saying, I'm glad that I'm not the only one who's noticing this!
Just Browntable saying "uwu" is enough for why I stay subscribed to this channel.
11:20 It's not a flip, it's a twist. Look up "raiz twist" or "cheat 720 twist" for the same movement, but without the wirework
I said my thoughts about this on your Hawkeye video but really does suck how much Marvel's been pushing into cameos and hype recently. It can be done well if they weren't more worried about the short moments instead of lasting memories.
This. I think this is a big part of why phase 4 hasnt been working.
Also the lack of something that the MCU is building towards (e.g. Phase1 builds towards Avengers) makes it tough.
I call this shit "Clap Culture" with friends. You don't wanna watch the movie, you just wanna wait until the big cameo appears and you clap at the screen.
As much as I love marvel, some needs to link this video to Feige. I really don't want the quality to keep dropping for these movies cause they've been apart of my life for so long now
Peggy carter saying the “I can do this all day” line was definitely the final straw
it’s crazy how we agree so much, like our opinions are always the same when i watch your gudeos
Kevin Feige sounds so chill
I fully agree man. I won't even pretend I haven't fallen victim to this kind of nostalgia bait and hype culture. Even the rumors about Superior Iron Man in Strange 2 lured me in somewhat. And that is a valid issue now. In Captain America the Winter Soldier, there was the throwaway line Sitwell had about "a news anchor in Cairo, a high school valedictorian, Bruce Banner, Stephen Strange" and people went apeshit trying to figure out if the news anchor was Moon Knight or the high school student Amadeus Cho. And it never amounted to anything. But we still fell into hype culture around it.
Also 5:53 "I don't watch RWBY"
That makes two of us sweetheart
Literally MCU has received a drop in quality for the shows, but to some folks who either don't have Disney+ or haven't seen those Marvel Miniseries on the service they would feel confused and get lost on what's happening whenever they watch the latest MCU film. Not to mention it seems that only WandaVision, Loki, What If?..., Falcon & the Winter Soldier, and Ms. Marvel are so far the only Disney+ series that tie to future MCU films the former three ties to _Dr. Strange and the Multiverse of Madness,_ and the latter two ties to the next Captain America (starring Falcon) and The Marvels.
Plus, it seems that Marvel Studios seems to be focusing more on Quantity of films and shows, than on Quality.
'Literally MCU has received a drop in quality for the shows...' A serious drop in my book!
'Plus, it seems that Marvel Studios seems to be focusing more on Quantity of films and shows, than on Quality.' Exactly!
Oh please.
@@dylansharp8471 Not sure if this is directed at me or to the other user?
great video! agree on so many levels. ive got friends who got into the MCU relatively late (part of the "everybody is talking about this infinty war thing" wave), and since then they discovered childhood characters like maguire's spiderman or charles xvier are in these movies, and they've started expecting those cameos and fan service moments as if that's the sole purpose of the MCU, to give them nostalgia. the whole beauty of the MCU was how totally standalone stories made character developments that connected after those have already happened, as it meant that only now our heros are ready.
i do kinda disagree on one thing- the daredevil & kingpin issue. as a person who watched daredevil (and all other marvel netflix shows) when it first aired, i loved it so much that it became one of my all time favorite shows, and it did so to probably all of its originial viewers. because of that, it was very hard when the netflix shows started getting lower ratings that risked the possibility of a third season. when it finally came, although it was made as a proper ending, lots of people felt that the third season could have been even more conclusive, as it might have felt a little rushed (im pretty sure there was a lot of pressure from the netlix-marvel studios contract and all of that), and fans were left wanting more. after the final nail in the marvel-netflix universe coffin which was jessica jones third season, we finally heard confirmed news that the shows are moving to disney+, daredevil will show up in spiderman, and that Feige is being intrested in continuing the characters run, without rebooting or changing the series' plots for the sake of the broad MCU. with the hopes in mind that the gritty R rated kingpin and daredevil are coming back we got so damn disappointed with kingpin's treatment in hawkeye (which for me ruined the whole series as well as the character arc of hawkeye and kate). i allow myself for once to get excited to see them again in Echo since they deserve a propper revisiting and resolution, and compared to characters like Garfield's spiderman in NWH, daredevil and kingpin ARE marvel studios' responsability to take care of, since they're the once who broke our hearts and decided to tricked us once again into believing they'd be returning
Edit: well that one got a little bit out of control, so excuse me😅
The things i dislike in the MCU its the comedy scenes that dont need to be in there and every MCU film just an advertisement for later installments.
You articulated every complaint I had but just couldn't put my finger on. Bravo!
You hit the nail on the head here. In particular, some of the numerous new shows I have zero excitement for. Like Echo and Agatha Harkness shows? Yawn!
As soon as you mentioned tik tok, BOOM, unskippable tik tok ad!
Hit the nail right on the head. I understand now why people say that these movies don't qualify as real cinema, and the stigma around being a fan of them because of the absolute cringe culture surrounding them.
It's not a movie, it's a toy by Disney.
Bruh.
They wanted Disney+ to have a big audience and the MCU & Star Wars Franchise is the perfect gateway for that. By counting on people's FOMO, they've created an ecosystem wherein you need most (if not all) of it to understand (and maybe appreciate) everything you're watching.