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I almost got divorced with my husband of 18 yrs. Over 10 years of not having a clue he was in spectrum. After diving in to our son’s diagnosis of Autism. It didn’t dawn on me until years later. When I realized it I swear it was like taking off blindfold. Our marriage now made so much sense. I completely understand him now and now we have a lot of healing to do there was much damage done. He himself has come to that realization it’s pretty amazing. He’s 41 btw. Knowledge truly is power.
This is invaluable to me. I nearly divorced because of this key misunderstanding in how my husband operates. He used to yell at me that "everyone has the same way of thinking as I do because we all have brains" and when I had a difference of perspective or opinion, he would yell, demand and argue furiously with me about how 'wrong' I was.
@chernagast6754 it's a helpful framework for understanding his limited perspective, BUT if he continues to deny your perspective as valid, that's a hard relationship to be in.
Maybe he feels like cause he's autistic he's figured out the brain and so if he's figured out his then yours too, but autism they have trouble walking in others shoes so to say.
Is compulsive lying something that is common with autism? Bf lies constantly about everything even mundane things that are unimportant. There are times I feel very gaslit and he tries to tell me he never said something or I heard him wrong and I clearly didn’t. I can’t tell if he’s lying to control or hurt me or his own issues. Very frustrating after 5 years of this
Not at all. Lying is an uncommon behavior for an autistic person since life tends to be fairly black and white. Truly not understanding why you didn't see things the same way could be an issue.
NO compulsive lying is not related to autism. It is a seperate issue. Personalities vary and I've observed cluster B traits are not uncommon in autism, but the cluster B traits are not related to autism itself.
Thank you for explaining the difference in the control. As an adult with autism, this has been a huge struggle for me both living with people and raising 3 children. I have always said that I hate telling people what to do, and I really don’t like it. The problem is that I truly need my environment to run a certain way or I am likely to have a meltdown. So I’ve worked hard to express my needs and what I need in order to feel comfortable and to balance that with the needs/desires of others in the house with me.
Maybe someone here can help me, My partner and I were in the grocery store and midway thru the isle we stopped to get something. Where we had stopped in the isle, there was a family that had their shopping cart out in the middle of the isle way and was causing the isle way to become congested. My partner was pushing our cart and as we stopped to grab something, I motioned and said to my partner to move our cart further off to the side so that the couple coming towards us could pass thru. My partner instantly got upset with me and looked like he was going to boil over. He told me I never take his side, and nothing he does is ever good enough. He then stated, "why should I move over when that family was blocking the isle way too, why didnt you tell them to move over?" I explained that I wasn't taking anyone's side, i noticed we had some space to move our cart off to the side so I asked him to move it to the side. I stated my only intention was being considerate to the other people in the isle way and didn't feel comfortable telling others to move out of the way when we had the room to move out of the way ourselves. I ended up apologizing over this fight. I have ASD and ADHD. He has ADHD. I don't feel like I actually had anything to apologize for. He was upset with me for not asking others to move but in my mind I was putting myself in those peoples shoes, maybe the family blocking the isle way simply wasnt aware of their surrounding and was like a dog seeing a squirrel and just forgot the cart was taking up extra room. He was mad at that family without even putting himself in their shoes. Just prior to this interaction he himself had just accidentally done the same thing this family did. He got distracted and left the cart in the middle of the isle way and another customer squeezed around it rather than telling us to move it. I saw and I apologized for the cart and then 10ish minutes later the crowded isle way incident occurred.
You see the two of you as a singular “unit” in these scenarios. You apologized to the other family because you were part of the unit the blocked the aisle. It wasn’t a criticism of him. You asked him to move the cart seeing him as part of the “unit” and not wanting to block the aisle again. It’s not anyone’s place to tell others what to do (the other family), but you were doing the executive functioning work of your own unit (you and him) in those moments. He is seeing himself as separate from you and not part of the unit, so he is taking your actions as criticisms of him - they’re not. I don’t think an apology is warranted. Hope this helps!
I almost got divorced with my husband of 18 yrs. Over 10 years of not having a clue he was in spectrum. After diving in to our son’s diagnosis of Autism. It didn’t dawn on me until years later. When I realized it I swear it was like taking off blindfold. Our marriage now made so much sense. I completely understand him now and now we have a lot of healing to do there was much damage done. He himself has come to that realization it’s pretty amazing. He’s 41 btw. Knowledge truly is power. Now I need help understanding how he heals.
My ex definitely is undiagnosed and played victim so hard, his family truly believed me holding him accountable was abuse! He was lying to everyone and we didn’t know. He thinks I was trying to control him, very exhausting
Refuses to take Any responsibility. Projects his negative mindset on me and now I'm depressed and being told I'm a Debbie Downer and he doesn't want to be around that when His neglect has caused me to be be depressed, anxious and sick. It's all my fault for being too needy and unappreciative for the little crumbs I'm given every week or every two weeks.
Take a look at my playlist about toxic and abusive behaviors. I also have a quiz and a course that helps differentiate autistic behaviors and traits from abusive toxic behaviors. jodicarlton.com/courses
I do not understand what is it for the ASD partner in their relationship. I feel so much like I do not exist or do not count and all I read or hear about men on the spectrum and how to deal with them seems to indicate that the woman do the work and can get something out of it if she wants but he doesn't have any investment or much care if the relationship works or not.
Hi Marie. It's hard to feel like you don't exist or matter to your partner! Many others can relate to your experience. This happens in neurotypical relationships as well, but in neurodiverse relationships it can be for different reasons, assuming that your partner is not also toxic (narcissistic/antisocial personality). Autistic partners usually care very much if the relationship works out, but often have no idea that a partner is unhappy/unfulfilled (despite sometimes being told). It's also common that autistic partners have no idea how to fix the relationship and because they are terrified of confrontation or conflict, they avoid any kind or "relationship" talk. The willingness to invest may be there, but there may be a lack of capacity or awareness for what to do AND their way of investing may look really different than a neurotypical partner's way of investing.
Many ASD guys have been taken advantage of and manipulated in their relationships with NT women, so it is very difficult to trust or open up to someone after that. Especially when they constantly tell you that you're showing love "wrong" and demand that you do it only in the way they tell you to. There's very little reciprocity, and simply getting their NT partner to ever explain what they actually want makes the NT partner assume they're putting in all the work. It's like they've never had to put in any work towards understanding their partner, and they immediately decide it's too much and blame it all on autism (which they also don't understand).
Basically alot of behaviors of narcs and aspies are the same and they hurt us the same. I as well had to learn the difference and knowing that the aspie doesn't intend to hurt and has no clue makes a huge difference and helped me cope with it. I still get hurt but now I handle things differently
Hi Logan. Thanks for sharing your experience. It really does make a difference to understand the intent is not to harm. It changes our perception of the behavior, which is the root of feeling hurt - how we interpret or perceive an action.
It is still abuse - unintended or not- abuse. You will never receive what you crave. It’s a codependent- with a abuser dynamic. Good luck to you all. I Finally left today.
@@jemiller226 When you tell someone with Autism they are hurting you and they continue to repeat the behavior, it IS abuse. Autistic individuals may not *feel* empathy or pick up on nonverbal cues, etc., but they can absolutely pick up on patterns. If someone tells them flat out that what they are doing is causing pain or that their indifference is offensive or that stonewalling causes the other to feel disconnected and rejected, they can know that their actions are hurtful/wrong/etc. without having to intuitively feel that they are.
The need to control their enviroment, coupled with the lack of theory of mind of others, seems to create (for some) a very excessive need to control those in their enviroment. That leads to walking on egg shells, not able to just exist, not able to not be perfect etc and meet every whim. Maybe those ive experienced this with had many narcissitic tendencies from childhood trauma or not being taught that other people exist in thier own autonomy and that must be respected.
I’m here after arguing with my autistic spouse (never a good idea). I tried sharing my feelings with her and she asked me how she could help. My response was, “Just pray for me”, in a normal tone of voice. In her head I, “Sounded really sh*tty”, and it left me to wonder how in the world she came to the conclusion. I’m a very direct person and when I intend for something to come out harsh, I most definitely succeed. There have been several times where my wife totally misinterprets the tone of voice I take with her. This has put me off to sharing any kind of emotions I may be feeling because, due to the ASD, she isn’t equipped to understand what I’m trying to convey. Sometimes I feel she needs somebody with very low levels of emotional output. She’s very quick to pick anybody apart on perceived flaws, but not willing to hear hers. I believe she does gaslight and has narcissistic traits after seeing this video.
This sounds like quite an antagonistic dynamic - I recommend that you seek professional help and support for yourself and/or your relationship - if neurodivergence is a likely variable (for either of you), then you can reach out to me at gethelp@jodicarlton.com for a consultation (I also have courses and assessments at jodicarlton.com). I am able to provide some references for other providers as well. Don't try to do this alone.
My husband has autism, 3 100% blocked arteries, and a old frontal lobe stroke that makes his symptoms so much worse. He barely answers, he walks away from me, he doesn't date, plan, think or do home repairs, express emotions. Sometimes, it seems like he is just there. I don't handle it well for other losses I have endured. I have mourned a new dimple on my cheek. Joy on life is gone. Selfishly, I am so heartbroken. We definitely don't understand each other anymore. It's so lonely.
Why do you stay with this man? Out of obligation? I wish you a happy rest of your life. Please don't stay in a place where you don't want to be. Life's to short to do that. 🙏
@patriciapeeters7 After a 38-year marriage, I do feel obligated. It I not his fault he is ill. But do I want to leave quite often, yes. I am reaching out to friends the best I can. It does not help my sister and mom have dementia also and having to manage everybody. I am burnout.
This is insightful on many points, but it's not really covering the topic of its title? What I especially appreciate is that the control is for the purpose of *controlling his or her own environment* and not intentionally for the purpose of controlling the partner. I'd add to the environment piece, the purpose of controlling his or her own *understanding of the world.* And those purposes can be so strong that he does indeed end up controlling his partner, though not consciously intentionally. So, gaslighting can be done unintentionally. To deal with this unintentional gaslighting, I think the autistic partner, as well as the non-autistic partner, has to have the humility and willingness to recognize that yes, different "languages" are being spoken. If he will not do that, it's a dead end. (And not all non-autistic partners in these relationships have a trauma history, and they're not necessarily "on the alert" for manipulative dynamics.)
Wow it’s so good to see this here, i had to work it all out for myself. I nearly left my partner twice but now we are married when I just decided to love and trust him.
Not everyone has the same experience in neurodiverse relationships - no more than in neurotypical relationships which also have loads of dysfunctional challenges. I know many neurodiverse couples who have a satisfying relationships - it has challenges, and there are sacrificies, but when each individual has the capacity, willingness, and motivation to work together, it can certainly be fulfilling. There are also relationships like you've described that are never going to work due to capacity limitations or lack of motivation, among other reasons. Every person has to look at their own relationship as unique, but with similarities to other neurodiverse relationships.
Riiight. If we just chose to love our autistic partners, our relationships could be saved. And quite honestly that's a bit pollyanna-ish to say and insensitive to wives/girlfriends who are suffering at the hands of their partners. That trust is just given. Not even a mention of it being earned...or broken.
I was made to believe a house with polished concrete floors and cathedral ceilings, wouldn't be echoey. Because the house was his special interest and a point of pride for him, my sensory needs didn't matter. But it was the builders fault. Then he lied about how far over budget the house was. He may not have done it intentionally, but it was controlling.
Great channel and great videos! I’m in relationship for 12 years, ended up physically and mentally very sick from all the stress. For years I suspected Asperger or Narcissism (I was raised in a narcissistic family). I have no doubt that my, now, husband ís somewhere on the spectrum, since it’s in his family. But I wonder if he is also narcissistic. Silent treatment, ignores me for days when I criticize him, emotional neglect, no empathy (when I’m crying), at times extremely cold, is very sarcastic (clearly to hurt me), passive agressiveness. I’m so confused, since I am almost certain that he is on the spectrum. But his behaviour seems so narcissistic.
You're not alone in being confused about these behaviors. I have a course with a quiz that can help! jodicarlton.com/courses/neurodivergent-or-narcissist-or-could-it-be-both/
Autism has an effect on communication. We're literally misunderstood because of the difficulty in communication. It's not gaslighting, it's trying to be heard exactly what we mean. It's clarification.
Alternatively what can be said: If it's someone who is ASD it's probably not gaslighting. Neurotypicals use subtext (hidden meaning often conveyed with body language the Autistic individual has little or no clue about) while ASD have missing text (previous facts they expect you to put the rest together). The sense of they're being controlling is their adherence to agreements made and the value placed on them (ie honesty, integrity, etc. All of which allows a more predictable life thus stable environment). Both parties will often stand their ground both remembering different things about a conversation because they had different meanings to them. The miscommunication and precieved breach of trust causes the person who is ASD feel the stability has been violated and potentially disrespected is often their source of anger. The shortest version is: without body language someone on the spectrum will likely take a different meaning from a conversation than intended by most people. It's akin to asking a blind person to read a teleprompter and getting upset they didn't read it perfectly and quickly. My favorite way to illustrate this point is the scene in Rainman where Tom Cruise is upset about Raymond not wearing underwear and Hoffman repeats "gotta go to k-mart" Raymond knows he has a bad day with most underwear, he knows of one store specifically that has it. His insisting that it has to be that onehe gives an address for probably means other k-marts probably didn't have that exact type before. There's more to it but that should give most people an idea of the missing text with ASD.
Very well said!! I call the non verbals “meta messages” that aren’t received by the ASD partner - there is missing data. My whole communication course focuses on the different meanings taken from interactions starting from what is brought to the interaction before it even starts all the through to how the narrative of the interaction is stored. Take a look: jodicarlton.com/courses
Most aspies are high masking. İt is possible to be nice and decent to your partners. Learn from even cheesy romantic comedies how to be a lover. We are high masking through life you can do it for your love. You got this aspies and their epic partners. Do not give up on love.
My bf is austic we met through online We're in a long distance relationship he's a good man the problem is communication no calls no video calls no voice notes atimes when i call him he doesn't pick or when he picks we talk for short time I left him 3 times but his communication is frustrating me What should i do
Some really good insights. And some not so up to date terms/explanations: A person with actual NPD will often lie, but may also often believe their own distortions, because they really abuse in order to control their inner world as well (maintaining "the false self"). Confabulation is the term for "lying but believing it". Also, sociopath is not a clinically defined or even meaningful (in my opinion) term. I use the term psychopathy to refer to Anti Social Personality Disorder, like many, just because it rolls of the tongue better. But all those "learn the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath" videos are just clickbait and pseudo psychology.
My stepfather is Aspergers'/borderline disordered. My childhood was hell and my mom over the decades of their marriage has been withered into this decrepit lump. I have recently had to cut them off entirely as she's now totally sucked into his orbit with no real way to recover. At least from anything that I could do about it. They don't know where I live and over the last twenty years I've had to go to extreme lengths to hide everything from education history to what I own. Nothing is in my name so as to throw him off any track. Borderline personality disorder isn't narcissism. But, my God, does it overlap with it a lot. Throw in a total lack of social awareness and you have a truly toxic person. His family has others of the same in it and is another reason why I've had to live as something of a ghost.
Yes, some are narcissistic. Some neurotypicals are narcissistic. Autism and narcissism are totally separate sets of traits. One does not automatically involve the other. Autism is not destructive and toxic - narcissism is. Thanks for your comment!
Does anyone know about male autism and lust? Im no longer desirable because im older but he is the same age but now flirts with women very young. We were married 37 years when I discovered he has ASD.
That’s how they are they feel they deserve a young hot person even though they are not even half time even worthy so they hire escorts and sugar babies to make themselves feel young and better then what they are old, nasty and definitely not worth the painful hurt they cause their partners…. How old men age and think they are hotter then ever when they are not and cheat on their partners that they are bored off is beyond me…. I would check bank Statements and the phone Bill I would 100 bet on it he’s cheating like mine is I would divorce him and find a younger better man who’s isn’t a lying cheating narcissist and let karma get him in the end you deserve to be happy, that’s not their goal so we kinda have to leave them and focus on what they did actually loving us !
Ew what a pig. Don't attribute this to his disorder. This is wrong and this hurts you and no one in a committed monogamous relationship should be doing this. Ask yourself or him if he'd be okay with you doing this. I assume the answer is no which shows you it's not neurodivergence, it's selfishness and control.
What you describe isn't a trait of autism, but a trait found in most adult males. Most people's first reaction is to find something outside of the relationship to blame it on, when it's really just a male-thing. Women do this too, but it's more typical in males.
If the abuse between narcissism and autism has the same effect on the partner. Let's not seperate them. Just get out, you're being abused, unknowingly or knowingly, it doesn't make a difference
It does make a difference. Both partners in neurodiverse relationships unintentionally hurt each other when there is lack of understanding and awareness. Neurotypical partners who expect neurotypical behaviors, thoughts processing, and emotional processing from their autistic partners are causing harm as well. If one can be called abuse so can the other. I see the harm going both ways regularly in the couples who work with me. Autistic individuals are not the villains here. No one is.
@@JodiCarlton it does ot make a difference, intent does not negate impact. If someone accidentally runs over your foot with their car, they get out, say sorry and try to never do it again. Just because this is a form of disorder doesn't mean there's a free pass. Still deserves an apology and a respectful attempt to resolve the issue. If the avoidant person or one gaslighting is aware and is trying to correct it that's fine.. We all make mistakes, if they are in denial. That's not OK, autistic or not
@@michaelhill2933 I think we're actually agreeing here on most of this. We are all accountable for our actions and we are responsible for doing what is within our power to prevent harming others. The impact of harm is felt whether it was intentional of not - however, we need to be cautious about using the word abuse and making sweeping statements like your original comment. Autism doesn't automatically rule out a person's ability to learn and implement change. Equally important is that both partners in neurodiverse relationships are almost always bringing traits and behaviors that are contributing to the relationship dysfunction - BOTH partners must be willing and motivated to heal and grow. It is certainly possible. Narcissists, however, will never seek clarity and growth, and will always have a GOAL of keeping a partner in a cycle distress and self-doubt. Intent does matter when there is an actual goal of harm.
I agree completely. The partner get PTSD from being with a narcissist AND an autistic person. Aspies mask/lie, they don’t take accountability for their toxic behavior (and even worse, they blame their partner for everything!), they go into silent treatment for no apparent reason, it’s all about getting their own needs met, they are super self centered, the list can go on and on. You have to walk on eggshells all the time and do everything to please them, so they don’t get another temper tantrum. I don’t believe you can have a successful relationship with an Aspie, but I bet you make good money from giving desperate and broken people false hope!
@@JodiCarlton I've become aware of beings or entities or people or forces or placeholders or whatever they are called no one, nobody, maybe, usually, everything, everyone, etc.. they know that regular humans don't comprehend the assignment. That's confusing and exhausting.
Great video. I wish there was more people like you around. I'm autistic and was apologising all day and everyday in my 15 year relationship. Trying to express what I need but then trying to fit in to my exs ideal of a relationship. I finally split with her and she threw all mannor of things in my direction when we got to court. I was made out to be the narcissist and she has now disappeared with our 10 year old daughter. That was just over 2 years ago. She never believed I had autism and unfortunately our little girl believes the same 😭
This sounds like an abusive ex. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of autistic men and women in relationships with abusive partners. Autistics are often easy to exploit and will stay in destructive relationships.
Thanks for making the distinction! I saw it called "unintentional gaslighting" on another video (maybe as clickbait). I'm almost ready to identify as autistic, and I have to say that I think I will try to be truthful because I consider it stability, compared to how neurotypicals go about things. Even if the truth would threaten a system that a lot of people holding onto (more like, simply used to), and cause a sense of instability for a lot of people, even me, I'm looking forward to getting to the truth as a foundation and rebuild with truth. I think that I may say something about what I understand as the truth of a situation if I think someone is trying to gaslight me, or if I think someone is heading toward complications or duress if they are missing info or understanding of a situation.
Hello! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The thing about “truth” is that it’s very subjective. Most truths are not hard facts but are subjective perceptions or opinions. So some people may strongly believe their truth because of their own perspective but someone else may have a different perspective. Just look at religion and politics. Lots of diff perspectives there. Gaslighting is when a person is told they are lying or they are wrong without considering their perspective as different and legitimate. Instead of focusing on what is the “the truth” I always approach from “my perspective is…..can you tell me more about yours because I’d like to know what is contributing to your opinion.”
Hello! There’s a difference in understanding and knowing the reasons for a behavior and it being “ok.” In children, for example, knowing why they are having a tantrum helps to make sense of why it’s happening and provides us with ideas for what triggered it and how to manage it. The same is true for all behavior including our own. Controlling others is not okay BUT sometimes it’s very helpful to understand that it’s not about power. Set your boundaries and your own dealbreakers and extend some grace as well. It’s not your job to do all the accommodating but it is your responsibility to hold your boundary for yourself (which is different from an ultimatum). If you’re not sure about boundaries here ya go: jodicarlton.com/setting-boundaries-versus-making-ultimatums/
If you have someone with autism and narcissistic personality disorder then somebody misdiagnosed the autistic side! The two are not compatible! The comment section alone is enough to cause great harm to a truly autistic person! You people need to get a grip on it.... Peace out.
This is incorrect. Autism and Narcissism are totally separate and distinct diagnoses. A person absolutely can be both. I've seen it many, many times, professionally, and have experienced it personally.
I have OCD and my partner is autistic. Sometimes I seek for reassurance and seeing him in inexpressive in sort of times or not understanding explodes my OCD… and idk what to do to not just start an explosion of questions to see if he’s okay or he’s mad or if he didn’t understand… idk my head goes messy and aaaa
I think my friend might be high functioning autistic. I have cptsd and noticed after years in our relationship that I experience gaslighting in our friendship. I realized the gaslighting was different in nature than the one with narcissists because that label didn't fit them in my eyes, not completely at least. I have tried to express to them they might be autistic and should look into that because it effects our relationship and just like I'm in therapy for my trauma or learned about my adhd etc, they need to know themselves because I cannot do that for them. But they 'dont like labels' and it is as if they want me to prove them there's a problem. I don't know autism very well, but I noticed signs? Like they don't buy cnew clothes because they feel very deeply for which clothes they wear, even if it has holes, it's familiar. They tried to convince a person to play with them even after the other said know, and got angry when I intervened, I don't know if this is autistic trait, I just felt they cared about what they wanted and acted as if a yes in advance was more important than a no at the moment, because expectations, I saw that as entitlement. They tend to make swallowing sounds without noticing, not connected to eating I mean, maybe as a form of stimming. They sometimes are very capable of being empathetic but then sometimes they totally miss my feelings, they don't understand why something they said or do hurt me, even when I explained that. They ask me questions about my life but don't tend to share about theirs, I don't know if this one is autistic trait or just avoidant attachment style. I don't want to give up on this friendship but I don't know what to do. How to be there for myself and also for them, I don't want to be continuously getting hurt, I don't want to be alone, and I care deeply for them. I'm so confused.
Hi there. Although it might be helpful to know the root cause of your friend's behavior, ultimately it doesn't matter if your friend isn't interest in pursuit of personal insight for themselves. If you feel harmed by a relationship, your loyalty and responsibility is to yourself, and to take care of you. It's hard to end a friendship or relationship, but as my friend and colleauge, Mona Kay, has said, "if nothing changes at all in the next 5 years, are you okay with that and do you still want to be in this friendship?" Consider all the years of your own life lost by pursing a relationship that won't likely change if a person isn't interested in learning and growing.
regarding labels theres a difference between stigma and structures of information affected by them maybe just describing some of the structures of the thing as like information rather than as an aggregate with a name would be more useful in helping your kin realize that difference
A formal assessment requires a clinical psychologist. You can contact spectrumservicesnyc.com/ for an evaluation. If you are looking for confirmation of neurodiversity without formalized testing or if you aren't needing a "diagnosis" from a licensed professional for work or medial reasons, reach out to my office at gethelp@jodicarlton.com. I am qualified to assess and identify neurodivergence, but do not provide formal psychological evaluation.
My dauther was dating a guy with autism and if she post a picture of her he does the same ting and she always said that everything was all about him he was nice person but he had a different personality that she didn't like even dough he is nice but has a hard time understanding her
Could you give some examples of how autistic people are controlling or hurtful in a manner similar to a narcissist? I'm having trouble understanding the parallels between these two.
Hi Don. Most often this happens when an autistic individual struggles with realizing a partner’s perspective is completely different than their own. This results in thinking that their own reality is the only reality, so they may deny their partner’s, perspective, memories, and beliefs about interactions and conversations, etc. This is called poor cognitive, empathy or poor “theory of mind.” It feels like gaslighting, which is a common narcissistic tactic to control a partner’s, self-awareness and to create self doubt. For the narcissist, it’s intentional and used to make a partner feel unsure of themselves and even crazy. A narcissist will even tell a person that they they’re crazy or mentally unstable. For an autistic person, it’s usually unintentional and is a lack of awareness of different realities. Autistic individuals also need control of their environment in order to give their brains less to process so they can be quite demanding about how time is spent, and even how the household is managed, or run, lighting, temperature, sounds, etc. They can also make demands of a partner regarding interactions. It feels like they’re controlling the partner, but really they’re controlling their own world. A narcissist truly does control a partner, in order to have power. It can feel similar, but the purpose is totally different.
Inflexibility, stubbornness, tantrums, lack of acknowledgement of the other person's efforts and sacrifices, highly eccentric and specific requirements in all areas of life, false accusations, not meeting their side of bargains.
You are right that I need to make more videos about this. At least half of my caseload is autistic individuals who are being abused by partners who bring them to me to "fix" them. Autistic individuals are easy targets for toxic personalities. I will work on getting some videos about this - it's very much needed. Thank you.
I can't see someone who is Asperger who has bad first impression and a Narcissist who has good first impression! Asperger who have trouble pretending and a Narcissist who is natural to pretending. Asperger and Narcissist are opposite, though sometimes share traits.
Hey everyone! Here's how you can get even more clarity about autism and neurodiversity in your life and relationship!
Take a quiz: jodicarlton.com/take-a-quiz/
Take a course: jodicarlton.com/courses/
Listen to the podcast: jodicarlton.com/podcast/
Read the blog: jodicarlton.com/blog/
Attend a support group: jodicarlton.com/groups/
Request a private consultation for coaching: jodicarlton.com/booking/
I almost got divorced with my husband of 18 yrs. Over 10 years of not having a clue he was in spectrum. After diving in to our son’s diagnosis of Autism. It didn’t dawn on me until years later. When I realized it I swear it was like taking off blindfold. Our marriage now made so much sense. I completely understand him now and now we have a lot of healing to do there was much damage done. He himself has come to that realization it’s pretty amazing. He’s 41 btw. Knowledge truly is power.
This is invaluable to me. I nearly divorced because of this key misunderstanding in how my husband operates. He used to yell at me that "everyone has the same way of thinking as I do because we all have brains" and when I had a difference of perspective or opinion, he would yell, demand and argue furiously with me about how 'wrong' I was.
@chernagast6754 it's a helpful framework for understanding his limited perspective, BUT if he continues to deny your perspective as valid, that's a hard relationship to be in.
Same experience I too had and I am in the process of divorcing him
There are always 3 sides to every story.. what you say, what he says, and the truth is somewhere in the middle lol
@@ChristinepicassaYou then are an adulteress and anyone you get with will also be held accountable and exposed for their own adultery.
Maybe he feels like cause he's autistic he's figured out the brain and so if he's figured out his then yours too, but autism they have trouble walking in others shoes so to say.
Is compulsive lying something that is common with autism? Bf lies constantly about everything even mundane things that are unimportant. There are times I feel very gaslit and he tries to tell me he never said something or I heard him wrong and I clearly didn’t. I can’t tell if he’s lying to control or hurt me or his own issues. Very frustrating after 5 years of this
Yes, very common
Not at all. Lying is an uncommon behavior for an autistic person since life tends to be fairly black and white. Truly not understanding why you didn't see things the same way could be an issue.
@@DSmith-yg4kg my husband makes up fantastic stories and outright lies as described above.
NO compulsive lying is not related to autism. It is a seperate issue. Personalities vary and I've observed cluster B traits are not uncommon in autism, but the cluster B traits are not related to autism itself.
Lying is a very uncommon trait in autistic people. In fact, the majority of autistic people lack a filter and will tell it like it is.
I'd love to hear you expand more on when people have both and it's sociopathic, in another video
Thank you for explaining the difference in the control. As an adult with autism, this has been a huge struggle for me both living with people and raising 3 children. I have always said that I hate telling people what to do, and I really don’t like it. The problem is that I truly need my environment to run a certain way or I am likely to have a meltdown. So I’ve worked hard to express my needs and what I need in order to feel comfortable and to balance that with the needs/desires of others in the house with me.
Not really sure what you mean?
Maybe someone here can help me,
My partner and I were in the grocery store and midway thru the isle we stopped to get something. Where we had stopped in the isle, there was a family that had their shopping cart out in the middle of the isle way and was causing the isle way to become congested. My partner was pushing our cart and as we stopped to grab something, I motioned and said to my partner to move our cart further off to the side so that the couple coming towards us could pass thru. My partner instantly got upset with me and looked like he was going to boil over. He told me I never take his side, and nothing he does is ever good enough. He then stated, "why should I move over when that family was blocking the isle way too, why didnt you tell them to move over?" I explained that I wasn't taking anyone's side, i noticed we had some space to move our cart off to the side so I asked him to move it to the side. I stated my only intention was being considerate to the other people in the isle way and didn't feel comfortable telling others to move out of the way when we had the room to move out of the way ourselves. I ended up apologizing over this fight.
I have ASD and ADHD. He has ADHD. I don't feel like I actually had anything to apologize for. He was upset with me for not asking others to move but in my mind I was putting myself in those peoples shoes, maybe the family blocking the isle way simply wasnt aware of their surrounding and was like a dog seeing a squirrel and just forgot the cart was taking up extra room. He was mad at that family without even putting himself in their shoes.
Just prior to this interaction he himself had just accidentally done the same thing this family did. He got distracted and left the cart in the middle of the isle way and another customer squeezed around it rather than telling us to move it. I saw and I apologized for the cart and then 10ish minutes later the crowded isle way incident occurred.
You see the two of you as a singular “unit” in these scenarios. You apologized to the other family because you were part of the unit the blocked the aisle. It wasn’t a criticism of him. You asked him to move the cart seeing him as part of the “unit” and not wanting to block the aisle again. It’s not anyone’s place to tell others what to do (the other family), but you were doing the executive functioning work of your own unit (you and him) in those moments. He is seeing himself as separate from you and not part of the unit, so he is taking your actions as criticisms of him - they’re not. I don’t think an apology is warranted. Hope this helps!
I almost got divorced with my husband of 18 yrs. Over 10 years of not having a clue he was in spectrum. After diving in to our son’s diagnosis of Autism. It didn’t dawn on me until years later. When I realized it I swear it was like taking off blindfold. Our marriage now made so much sense. I completely understand him now and now we have a lot of healing to do there was much damage done. He himself has come to that realization it’s pretty amazing. He’s 41 btw. Knowledge truly is power. Now I need help understanding how he heals.
My ex definitely is undiagnosed and played victim so hard, his family truly believed me holding him accountable was abuse! He was lying to everyone and we didn’t know. He thinks I was trying to control him, very exhausting
Refuses to take Any responsibility. Projects his negative mindset on me and now I'm depressed and being told I'm a Debbie Downer and he doesn't want to be around that when His neglect has caused me to be be depressed, anxious and sick. It's all my fault for being too needy and unappreciative for the little crumbs I'm given every week or every two weeks.
Take a look at my playlist about toxic and abusive behaviors. I also have a quiz and a course that helps differentiate autistic behaviors and traits from abusive toxic behaviors. jodicarlton.com/courses
Triggered her 😅
What who when @@coreyconstruction3695
I do not understand what is it for the ASD partner in their relationship. I feel so much like I do not exist or do not count and all I read or hear about men on the spectrum and how to deal with them seems to indicate that the woman do the work and can get something out of it if she wants but he doesn't have any investment or much care if the relationship works or not.
Hi Marie. It's hard to feel like you don't exist or matter to your partner! Many others can relate to your experience. This happens in neurotypical relationships as well, but in neurodiverse relationships it can be for different reasons, assuming that your partner is not also toxic (narcissistic/antisocial personality). Autistic partners usually care very much if the relationship works out, but often have no idea that a partner is unhappy/unfulfilled (despite sometimes being told). It's also common that autistic partners have no idea how to fix the relationship and because they are terrified of confrontation or conflict, they avoid any kind or "relationship" talk. The willingness to invest may be there, but there may be a lack of capacity or awareness for what to do AND their way of investing may look really different than a neurotypical partner's way of investing.
Yup.. so run.
Thank you for your response @@JodiCarlton that I just now read. It is helpful. Narcissistic traits can also exist in ASD partner?
Many ASD guys have been taken advantage of and manipulated in their relationships with NT women, so it is very difficult to trust or open up to someone after that. Especially when they constantly tell you that you're showing love "wrong" and demand that you do it only in the way they tell you to. There's very little reciprocity, and simply getting their NT partner to ever explain what they actually want makes the NT partner assume they're putting in all the work. It's like they've never had to put in any work towards understanding their partner, and they immediately decide it's too much and blame it all on autism (which they also don't understand).
I can relate to exactly what you are saying, and Jody's reply.
what about lying and lying about lying and turn reality around in ASD, does that happen?
great question! Here's a video I've done about lying and neurodivergence: th-cam.com/video/ieDs_DmyZ2w/w-d-xo.html
Basically alot of behaviors of narcs and aspies are the same and they hurt us the same. I as well had to learn the difference and knowing that the aspie doesn't intend to hurt and has no clue makes a huge difference and helped me cope with it. I still get hurt but now I handle things differently
Hi Logan. Thanks for sharing your experience. It really does make a difference to understand the intent is not to harm. It changes our perception of the behavior, which is the root of feeling hurt - how we interpret or perceive an action.
It is still abuse - unintended or not- abuse. You will never receive what you crave. It’s a codependent- with a abuser dynamic. Good luck to you all. I Finally left today.
Good for you. Very wise decision. We deserve better.
@@ADORABEL25 Abuse requires intent. Period.
@@jemiller226 When you tell someone with Autism they are hurting you and they continue to repeat the behavior, it IS abuse. Autistic individuals may not *feel* empathy or pick up on nonverbal cues, etc., but they can absolutely pick up on patterns. If someone tells them flat out that what they are doing is causing pain or that their indifference is offensive or that stonewalling causes the other to feel disconnected and rejected, they can know that their actions are hurtful/wrong/etc. without having to intuitively feel that they are.
The need to control their enviroment, coupled with the lack of theory of mind of others, seems to create (for some) a very excessive need to control those in their enviroment. That leads to walking on egg shells, not able to just exist, not able to not be perfect etc and meet every whim. Maybe those ive experienced this with had many narcissitic tendencies from childhood trauma or not being taught that other people exist in thier own autonomy and that must be respected.
I’m here after arguing with my autistic spouse (never a good idea). I tried sharing my feelings with her and she asked me how she could help. My response was, “Just pray for me”, in a normal tone of voice. In her head I, “Sounded really sh*tty”, and it left me to wonder how in the world she came to the conclusion. I’m a very direct person and when I intend for something to come out harsh, I most definitely succeed. There have been several times where my wife totally misinterprets the tone of voice I take with her. This has put me off to sharing any kind of emotions I may be feeling because, due to the ASD, she isn’t equipped to understand what I’m trying to convey. Sometimes I feel she needs somebody with very low levels of emotional output. She’s very quick to pick anybody apart on perceived flaws, but not willing to hear hers. I believe she does gaslight and has narcissistic traits after seeing this video.
My husband has covert narcissistic tendencies. I deal with darvo all the time. Everything is my fault. But they think I'm an aspie
This sounds like quite an antagonistic dynamic - I recommend that you seek professional help and support for yourself and/or your relationship - if neurodivergence is a likely variable (for either of you), then you can reach out to me at gethelp@jodicarlton.com for a consultation (I also have courses and assessments at jodicarlton.com). I am able to provide some references for other providers as well. Don't try to do this alone.
Thank you! I will keep your information handy.
My husband has autism, 3 100% blocked arteries, and a old frontal lobe stroke that makes his symptoms so much worse. He barely answers, he walks away from me, he doesn't date, plan, think or do home repairs, express emotions. Sometimes, it seems like he is just there. I don't handle it well for other losses I have endured. I have mourned a new dimple on my cheek. Joy on life is gone. Selfishly, I am so heartbroken. We definitely don't understand each other anymore.
It's so lonely.
@cindylandry7856 I'm so sorry, you obviously feel obligated to care for him. I hope eventually you have the kind of relationship you need.
Why do you stay with this man? Out of obligation? I wish you a happy rest of your life. Please don't stay in a place where you don't want to be. Life's to short to do that. 🙏
@patriciapeeters7 After a 38-year marriage, I do feel obligated. It I not his fault he is ill. But do I want to leave quite often, yes. I am reaching out to friends the best I can. It does not help my sister and mom have dementia also and having to manage everybody. I am burnout.
@@lucyeaston109 I appreciate replies and the understanding
This is insightful on many points, but it's not really covering the topic of its title?
What I especially appreciate is that the control is for the purpose of *controlling his or her own environment* and not intentionally for the purpose of controlling the partner. I'd add to the environment piece, the purpose of controlling his or her own *understanding of the world.* And those purposes can be so strong that he does indeed end up controlling his partner, though not consciously intentionally.
So, gaslighting can be done unintentionally.
To deal with this unintentional gaslighting, I think the autistic partner, as well as the non-autistic partner, has to have the humility and willingness to recognize that yes, different "languages" are being spoken. If he will not do that, it's a dead end.
(And not all non-autistic partners in these relationships have a trauma history, and they're not necessarily "on the alert" for manipulative dynamics.)
Apologies for the confusing title. Agreed on all of your points here. Well said!
Wow it’s so good to see this here, i had to work it all out for myself. I nearly left my partner twice but now we are married when I just decided to love and trust him.
I feel so sorry for you.. 😢 a lifetime of gashlighting yourself and not receiving what you crave on a emotional level
You feel sorry for me?
Not everyone has the same experience in neurodiverse relationships - no more than in neurotypical relationships which also have loads of dysfunctional challenges. I know many neurodiverse couples who have a satisfying relationships - it has challenges, and there are sacrificies, but when each individual has the capacity, willingness, and motivation to work together, it can certainly be fulfilling. There are also relationships like you've described that are never going to work due to capacity limitations or lack of motivation, among other reasons. Every person has to look at their own relationship as unique, but with similarities to other neurodiverse relationships.
Riiight. If we just chose to love our autistic partners, our relationships could be saved. And quite honestly that's a bit pollyanna-ish to say and insensitive to wives/girlfriends who are suffering at the hands of their partners. That trust is just given. Not even a mention of it being earned...or broken.
I was made to believe a house with polished concrete floors and cathedral ceilings, wouldn't be echoey. Because the house was his special interest and a point of pride for him, my sensory needs didn't matter. But it was the builders fault. Then he lied about how far over budget the house was. He may not have done it intentionally, but it was controlling.
Great channel and great videos! I’m in relationship for 12 years, ended up physically and mentally very sick from all the stress. For years I suspected Asperger or Narcissism (I was raised in a narcissistic family).
I have no doubt that my, now, husband ís somewhere on the spectrum, since it’s in his family.
But I wonder if he is also narcissistic.
Silent treatment, ignores me for days when I criticize him, emotional neglect, no empathy (when I’m crying), at times extremely cold, is very sarcastic (clearly to hurt me), passive agressiveness.
I’m so confused, since I am almost certain that he is on the spectrum. But his behaviour seems so narcissistic.
You're not alone in being confused about these behaviors. I have a course with a quiz that can help! jodicarlton.com/courses/neurodivergent-or-narcissist-or-could-it-be-both/
Autism has an effect on communication. We're literally misunderstood because of the difficulty in communication. It's not gaslighting, it's trying to be heard exactly what we mean. It's clarification.
Alternatively what can be said:
If it's someone who is ASD it's probably not gaslighting. Neurotypicals use subtext (hidden meaning often conveyed with body language the Autistic individual has little or no clue about) while ASD have missing text (previous facts they expect you to put the rest together). The sense of they're being controlling is their adherence to agreements made and the value placed on them (ie honesty, integrity, etc. All of which allows a more predictable life thus stable environment). Both parties will often stand their ground both remembering different things about a conversation because they had different meanings to them. The miscommunication and precieved breach of trust causes the person who is ASD feel the stability has been violated and potentially disrespected is often their source of anger.
The shortest version is: without body language someone on the spectrum will likely take a different meaning from a conversation than intended by most people. It's akin to asking a blind person to read a teleprompter and getting upset they didn't read it perfectly and quickly.
My favorite way to illustrate this point is the scene in Rainman where Tom Cruise is upset about Raymond not wearing underwear and Hoffman repeats "gotta go to k-mart" Raymond knows he has a bad day with most underwear, he knows of one store specifically that has it. His insisting that it has to be that onehe gives an address for probably means other k-marts probably didn't have that exact type before.
There's more to it but that should give most people an idea of the missing text with ASD.
Very well said!! I call the non verbals “meta messages” that aren’t received by the ASD partner - there is missing data. My whole communication course focuses on the different meanings taken from interactions starting from what is brought to the interaction before it even starts all the through to how the narrative of the interaction is stored. Take a look: jodicarlton.com/courses
Most aspies are high masking. İt is possible to be nice and decent to your partners. Learn from even cheesy romantic comedies how to be a lover. We are high masking through life you can do it for your love. You got this aspies and their epic partners. Do not give up on love.
My bf is austic we met through online
We're in a long distance relationship he's a good man the problem is communication no calls no video calls no voice notes atimes when i call him he doesn't pick or when he picks we talk for short time
I left him 3 times but his communication is frustrating me
What should i do
Leave forever
Some really good insights. And some not so up to date terms/explanations:
A person with actual NPD will often lie, but may also often believe their own distortions, because they really abuse in order to control their inner world as well (maintaining "the false self"). Confabulation is the term for "lying but believing it".
Also, sociopath is not a clinically defined or even meaningful (in my opinion) term. I use the term psychopathy to refer to Anti Social Personality Disorder, like many, just because it rolls of the tongue better. But all those "learn the difference between a sociopath and a psychopath" videos are just clickbait and pseudo psychology.
My stepfather is Aspergers'/borderline disordered. My childhood was hell and my mom over the decades of their marriage has been withered into this decrepit lump. I have recently had to cut them off entirely as she's now totally sucked into his orbit with no real way to recover. At least from anything that I could do about it. They don't know where I live and over the last twenty years I've had to go to extreme lengths to hide everything from education history to what I own. Nothing is in my name so as to throw him off any track. Borderline personality disorder isn't narcissism. But, my God, does it overlap with it a lot. Throw in a total lack of social awareness and you have a truly toxic person. His family has others of the same in it and is another reason why I've had to live as something of a ghost.
Some autistic/asperger are narcissistic too, they are mean and vengeful. So...
Yes, some are narcissistic. Some neurotypicals are narcissistic. Autism and narcissism are totally separate sets of traits. One does not automatically involve the other. Autism is not destructive and toxic - narcissism is. Thanks for your comment!
your spot on i have fallen out with someone who carries the traits of a narc who autistic
he well could be a narcissist
Does anyone know about male autism and lust? Im no longer desirable because im older but he is the same age but now flirts with women very young. We were married 37 years when I discovered he has ASD.
That’s how they are they feel they deserve a young hot person even though they are not even half time even worthy so they hire escorts and sugar babies to make themselves feel young and better then what they are old, nasty and definitely not worth the painful hurt they cause their partners…. How old men age and think they are hotter then ever when they are not and cheat on their partners that they are bored off is beyond me…. I would check bank
Statements and the phone
Bill I would 100 bet on it he’s cheating like mine is I would divorce him and find a younger better man who’s isn’t a lying cheating narcissist and let karma get him in the end you deserve to be happy, that’s not their goal so we kinda have to leave them and focus on what they did actually loving us !
Ew what a pig. Don't attribute this to his disorder. This is wrong and this hurts you and no one in a committed monogamous relationship should be doing this. Ask yourself or him if he'd be okay with you doing this. I assume the answer is no which shows you it's not neurodivergence, it's selfishness and control.
What you describe isn't a trait of autism, but a trait found in most adult males. Most people's first reaction is to find something outside of the relationship to blame it on, when it's really just a male-thing. Women do this too, but it's more typical in males.
I'm dealing with an undiagnosed Autistic Person and she is oblivious to it all.... Relationship just ended....
If the abuse between narcissism and autism has the same effect on the partner. Let's not seperate them. Just get out, you're being abused, unknowingly or knowingly, it doesn't make a difference
It does make a difference. Both partners in neurodiverse relationships unintentionally hurt each other when there is lack of understanding and awareness. Neurotypical partners who expect neurotypical behaviors, thoughts processing, and emotional processing from their autistic partners are causing harm as well. If one can be called abuse so can the other. I see the harm going both ways regularly in the couples who work with me. Autistic individuals are not the villains here. No one is.
@@JodiCarlton it does ot make a difference, intent does not negate impact. If someone accidentally runs over your foot with their car, they get out, say sorry and try to never do it again. Just because this is a form of disorder doesn't mean there's a free pass. Still deserves an apology and a respectful attempt to resolve the issue.
If the avoidant person or one gaslighting is aware and is trying to correct it that's fine.. We all make mistakes, if they are in denial. That's not OK, autistic or not
@@michaelhill2933 I think we're actually agreeing here on most of this. We are all accountable for our actions and we are responsible for doing what is within our power to prevent harming others. The impact of harm is felt whether it was intentional of not - however, we need to be cautious about using the word abuse and making sweeping statements like your original comment. Autism doesn't automatically rule out a person's ability to learn and implement change. Equally important is that both partners in neurodiverse relationships are almost always bringing traits and behaviors that are contributing to the relationship dysfunction - BOTH partners must be willing and motivated to heal and grow. It is certainly possible. Narcissists, however, will never seek clarity and growth, and will always have a GOAL of keeping a partner in a cycle distress and self-doubt. Intent does matter when there is an actual goal of harm.
I agree completely. The partner get PTSD from being with a narcissist AND an autistic person. Aspies mask/lie, they don’t take accountability for their toxic behavior (and even worse, they blame their partner for everything!), they go into silent treatment for no apparent reason, it’s all about getting their own needs met, they are super self centered, the list can go on and on. You have to walk on eggshells all the time and do everything to please them, so they don’t get another temper tantrum. I don’t believe you can have a successful relationship with an Aspie, but I bet you make good money from giving desperate and broken people false hope!
@@JodiCarlton I've become aware of beings or entities or people or forces or placeholders or whatever they are called no one, nobody, maybe, usually, everything, everyone, etc.. they know that regular humans don't comprehend the assignment. That's confusing and exhausting.
Great video. I wish there was more people like you around. I'm autistic and was apologising all day and everyday in my 15 year relationship. Trying to express what I need but then trying to fit in to my exs ideal of a relationship. I finally split with her and she threw all mannor of things in my direction when we got to court. I was made out to be the narcissist and she has now disappeared with our 10 year old daughter. That was just over 2 years ago. She never believed I had autism and unfortunately our little girl believes the same 😭
This sounds like an abusive ex. Unfortunately, I've seen a lot of autistic men and women in relationships with abusive partners. Autistics are often easy to exploit and will stay in destructive relationships.
Thanks for making the distinction! I saw it called "unintentional gaslighting" on another video (maybe as clickbait). I'm almost ready to identify as autistic, and I have to say that I think I will try to be truthful because I consider it stability, compared to how neurotypicals go about things. Even if the truth would threaten a system that a lot of people holding onto (more like, simply used to), and cause a sense of instability for a lot of people, even me, I'm looking forward to getting to the truth as a foundation and rebuild with truth.
I think that I may say something about what I understand as the truth of a situation if I think someone is trying to gaslight me, or if I think someone is heading toward complications or duress if they are missing info or understanding of a situation.
Hello! Thanks for sharing your thoughts. The thing about “truth” is that it’s very subjective. Most truths are not hard facts but are subjective perceptions or opinions. So some people may strongly believe their truth because of their own perspective but someone else may have a different perspective. Just look at religion and politics. Lots of diff perspectives there. Gaslighting is when a person is told they are lying or they are wrong without considering their perspective as different and legitimate. Instead of focusing on what is the “the truth” I always approach from “my perspective is…..can you tell me more about yours because I’d like to know what is contributing to your opinion.”
Oh its all right to control everyone in your environment so you feel safe lol !
Hello! There’s a difference in understanding and knowing the reasons for a behavior and it being “ok.” In children, for example, knowing why they are having a tantrum helps to make sense of why it’s happening and provides us with ideas for what triggered it and how to manage it. The same is true for all behavior including our own. Controlling others is not okay BUT sometimes it’s very helpful to understand that it’s not about power. Set your boundaries and your own dealbreakers and extend some grace as well. It’s not your job to do all the accommodating but it is your responsibility to hold your boundary for yourself (which is different from an ultimatum). If you’re not sure about boundaries here ya go: jodicarlton.com/setting-boundaries-versus-making-ultimatums/
If you have someone with autism and narcissistic personality disorder then somebody misdiagnosed the autistic side! The two are not compatible! The comment section alone is enough to cause great harm to a truly autistic person! You people need to get a grip on it.... Peace out.
This is incorrect. Autism and Narcissism are totally separate and distinct diagnoses. A person absolutely can be both. I've seen it many, many times, professionally, and have experienced it personally.
I have OCD and my partner is autistic. Sometimes I seek for reassurance and seeing him in inexpressive in sort of times or not understanding explodes my OCD… and idk what to do to not just start an explosion of questions to see if he’s okay or he’s mad or if he didn’t understand… idk my head goes messy and aaaa
How can you tell the difference?
I think my friend might be high functioning autistic. I have cptsd and noticed after years in our relationship that I experience gaslighting in our friendship. I realized the gaslighting was different in nature than the one with narcissists because that label didn't fit them in my eyes, not completely at least.
I have tried to express to them they might be autistic and should look into that because it effects our relationship and just like I'm in therapy for my trauma or learned about my adhd etc, they need to know themselves because I cannot do that for them. But they 'dont like labels' and it is as if they want me to prove them there's a problem.
I don't know autism very well, but I noticed signs? Like they don't buy cnew clothes because they feel very deeply for which clothes they wear, even if it has holes, it's familiar. They tried to convince a person to play with them even after the other said know, and got angry when I intervened, I don't know if this is autistic trait, I just felt they cared about what they wanted and acted as if a yes in advance was more important than a no at the moment, because expectations, I saw that as entitlement. They tend to make swallowing sounds without noticing, not connected to eating I mean, maybe as a form of stimming. They sometimes are very capable of being empathetic but then sometimes they totally miss my feelings, they don't understand why something they said or do hurt me, even when I explained that. They ask me questions about my life but don't tend to share about theirs, I don't know if this one is autistic trait or just avoidant attachment style.
I don't want to give up on this friendship but I don't know what to do. How to be there for myself and also for them, I don't want to be continuously getting hurt, I don't want to be alone, and I care deeply for them. I'm so confused.
Hi there. Although it might be helpful to know the root cause of your friend's behavior, ultimately it doesn't matter if your friend isn't interest in pursuit of personal insight for themselves. If you feel harmed by a relationship, your loyalty and responsibility is to yourself, and to take care of you. It's hard to end a friendship or relationship, but as my friend and colleauge, Mona Kay, has said, "if nothing changes at all in the next 5 years, are you okay with that and do you still want to be in this friendship?" Consider all the years of your own life lost by pursing a relationship that won't likely change if a person isn't interested in learning and growing.
regarding labels
theres a difference between stigma and structures of information affected by them
maybe just describing some of the structures of the thing as like information rather than as an aggregate with a name would be more useful in helping your kin realize that difference
How can my husband get a formal assessment?
A formal assessment requires a clinical psychologist. You can contact spectrumservicesnyc.com/ for an evaluation. If you are looking for confirmation of neurodiversity without formalized testing or if you aren't needing a "diagnosis" from a licensed professional for work or medial reasons, reach out to my office at gethelp@jodicarlton.com. I am qualified to assess and identify neurodivergence, but do not provide formal psychological evaluation.
How does control work if free will is an illusion? 🤔
That presupposes that free will is an illusion.
@@skachor 😂
My dauther was dating a guy with autism and if she post a picture of her he does the same ting and she always said that everything was all about him he was nice person but he had a different personality that she didn't like even dough he is nice but has a hard time understanding her
Why the hell do trauma victims marry adhd and/or ADHD!! Just heard thus for the first time.Im at the end...
Could you give some examples of how autistic people are controlling or hurtful in a manner similar to a narcissist? I'm having trouble understanding the parallels between these two.
Hi Don. Most often this happens when an autistic individual struggles with realizing a partner’s perspective is completely different than their own. This results in thinking that their own reality is the only reality, so they may deny their partner’s, perspective, memories, and beliefs about interactions and conversations, etc. This is called poor cognitive, empathy or poor “theory of mind.” It feels like gaslighting, which is a common narcissistic tactic to control a partner’s, self-awareness and to create self doubt. For the narcissist, it’s intentional and used to make a partner feel unsure of themselves and even crazy. A narcissist will even tell a person that they they’re crazy or mentally unstable. For an autistic person, it’s usually unintentional and is a lack of awareness of different realities. Autistic individuals also need control of their environment in order to give their brains less to process so they can be quite demanding about how time is spent, and even how the household is managed, or run, lighting, temperature, sounds, etc. They can also make demands of a partner regarding interactions. It feels like they’re controlling the partner, but really they’re controlling their own world. A narcissist truly does control a partner, in order to have power. It can feel similar, but the purpose is totally different.
Inflexibility, stubbornness, tantrums, lack of acknowledgement of the other person's efforts and sacrifices, highly eccentric and specific requirements in all areas of life, false accusations, not meeting their side of bargains.
@@skyspring7704 who do these traits belong to. Please and thanks for your time.
@@skyspring7704 Those were all problems I experienced from my neurotypyical ex's, so I'm curious about the ones that are specific to autistic people.
@@dillchivesI feel like we will be wondering about this the rest of our lives lol
Comment section is going crazy 😅
Why can't I find any information about the other side, when the autistic person is the one being abused.
Look up Autistic Mate Crime.
You are right that I need to make more videos about this. At least half of my caseload is autistic individuals who are being abused by partners who bring them to me to "fix" them. Autistic individuals are easy targets for toxic personalities. I will work on getting some videos about this - it's very much needed. Thank you.
I can't see someone who is Asperger who has bad first impression and a Narcissist who has good first impression! Asperger who have trouble pretending and a Narcissist who is natural to pretending. Asperger and Narcissist are opposite, though sometimes share traits.
Agreed! Thanks for sharing your thoughts on this topic.
asperger's plut narcissism doesn't equal anti social personality disorder!
read wikipedia
Just because it's on wiki doesn't mean it's correct or true
you should NOT be talking about autism, stop being stuck to antient knowledge go do some proper research for god’s sake
I'm actually looking to learn more if you can provide a link
Sam Vaknin@@electrawolf8491
Sounds like you have the tism