I had the same thing happen. They didn't tell me they were made too close of a tolerance though. Well good you were able to inspect it after some use and it was nothing big. Awesome video. I had to install a jam nut as well. Also, check your oil feed lines and make sure your oil metering valves and the internal check valves work. Mine developed air in the lines (possibly from bad ferrule tightening too), so one actuation would not fill it back up after not using for a day. There was also not enough oil being delivered after that was fixed too as the meter valve was seized I believe. I removed the protective spring that covers the lines so I could inspect.
I just checked my oil lines and one of them did have a lot of air in it after sitting for multiple days, the Z axis gib line. Took about a 90 seconds of manual feed to get oil to it. I'll have to see what I can do to remedy that. I imagine that would have caused lots of excess wear over time. Good idea to check, Thanks!
Was kinda hoping you would have included video of the tool change after the gap was corrected. Glad your repair only cost you a few O-rings and some silicone gasket sealer.
great video, but be wary, that black collar on the spindle cartridge could be the 'preload' adjustment, aka use a shim between it and the casting, and/or the torque of the screws, as in some bearing systems the covers adjust them (tapered roller, or angular contact bearings) and for "runout' of the spindle, you need a way of adjusting all the slop out, to keep things accurate, and also to account for spindle bearing wear.
Well done. It seems that there is inevitably some issues arising in machines like this - some mihgt say that Chinese made stiff to a price is to a greater or smaller extent a collection of parts that need finishing. I really appreciate the way you are detailing your commisioning and use of the machine as I am considering which way to go myself. Pete
Agreed. It's certainly worth recognizing that there are some rough edges on machines like this. On the other hand there haven't been too many and, if you're handy, it does provide opportunities to learn how the machine works. It can be tough to decide, really depends on what you want to be using the machine for. For example, if I had bought a nice used Haas with a 20hp 6k rpm spindle I would be kicking myself because the small tools I'm using would take forever and don't need the horsepower.
@@vcedge9466 I've recently bought a Schaublin 225 CNC lathe - which is 400mm between centers (at a stretch) - my use case is tool room prototyping relatively small parts which need good tolerances - the Schaublin is probably overkill but it was at a good price. With a mill , as you say in working with relatively small parts - the ability to use smaller diameter tooling is more important to me than horsepower Tormach have nailed the ease of use case with Path Pilot - and I am fascinated to see how well your tight tolerance requirements (eg in your manufactured bearings) is managed by the Tormach. I am comparing the Tormach to another Chinese made machine with on paper much better specifications in the Syil line at similar prices - down here in Oz we pay roughly 2X the price for the same machine that you guys pay in the US - a Haas minimill or tool mill is about 120K down here and I'm not sure there is much 'value' in that proposition.Pete
The Syil machines do seem to have at least comparable if not better specs on paper at a similar price point. I'm not sure what they're like to work with though. Let me know what you end up with.
Don't be so sure this was from your mishap. I had the exact same issue on my 1100MX without any crashes. Would freeze up from time to time. Tormach replaced the spindle and it still happened.- but the reason it occurred was not actually the spindle. They had a run of those nose cones (that you found scuffed) that were incorrectly machined, causing rubbing and occasional locking up. They thought there were none of those in circulation - BUT, they put returned items into service, so some of them are still out there. I bet that's what you had. Incidentally, you replaced yours incorrectly - that setscrew in the front should be at the back, according to their instructions. Don't see how it makes any difference though
I have a 2 hp water cooled spindle (Taiwan)in a Axiom 3 axis gantry that has been through hell compared to what you did to yours and it still produces accurate parts without any issues.
It was slightly off but also way under sized. It had only .002" clearance on each side. Tormach gave me a new one and it has .004" clearance on each side. No problems with the new one.
Very interesting video! Did the jam nut on the power drawbar plunger work? I'm having the same issue with my ATC - the collet doesn't;t seem to fully disengage from the pull pin on the tool causing the ATC platter to get pulled up sometimes when the spindle retracts. I was looking for a spec on the BT-30 spindle and didn't;t find one in the tormach docs.
That spacer helped dramatically, the tool changes are nice and clean now. With no tool in the spindle I set the space between the drawbar and piston to .030" and have air pressure at 100psi.
I loved this video. I am looking at the 1100MX as a choice in the future. I have a question. Do you find yourself having to change belt positions frequently?
hello, good afternoon, I am left with a question now that I saw how you disarm it, how to position the tool to make the change and that it is aligned with respect to the slots, since nothing can be seen in the video and the motor is not positioning and it does not have toothed transmission
I have a PCÇ100 series 3 and I crashed it in the same conditions more than I care to admit. Thanks for sharing the repair process - very helpful. I'm also curious as why you chose to put your 4th axis on the left side of the table - don't you have trouble with long drill bit clearing the tool changer ?
No particular reason for putting it on the left. I might move it later on but Its not really much higher than the vise or the pallets I'm putting in it. If it was a bigger 4th axis it would need to go on the right for sure. Since I'm making small things long drill bits aren't really a problem, plus I use machine length drills most of the time.
It does not appear to be the case this time. I can tell that the floor where it did cut was nice and flat and the feed rate was double what it should have been.
@@vcedge9466 so strange, the spindle rarely has problem. This is not heavy machining and you don’t cutting hard materials such as titanium, inconel, hss,..
There should not be any damage to a WELL MADE SPINDLE if you where to break a 10 END MILLS like that in Aluminum. I am a manufacturing engineer and have worked in several machine shops and currently run one of my own. Max acceptable TIR for a WELL MADE BT 30 spindle should be .0002". I have a BT30 CNC mill from Automate CNC and I have broken carbide end mills by accident several times. 1/4", 3/8" and even 1/2". I have never had the any issues with my spindle.
@@macmaniacal Yes.....In fact, the early tormach 1100s had a load indicator on the machine. It was a big analog mechanical needle. Haas machine have a lod indicator, but it's rarely looked at...by me anyway.
@@motoflyte I was thinking of just hooking up an hall effect current transducer meant for home automation to one of the phase leads and mount an oled to the enclosure somewhere.
The load indicator would be very helpful. I recognized I wanted that right away. This guy somehow figured out how to add it right on the screen. I don't see any instruction on how to do it though.
This was very informative, thanks for taking the time to document everything!
You're welcome!
Yep makes me glad I did not buy a Tormach. That is a very cheaply made spindle with no quality control.
Good video documenting the problem.
I had the same thing happen. They didn't tell me they were made too close of a tolerance though. Well good you were able to inspect it after some use and it was nothing big. Awesome video. I had to install a jam nut as well. Also, check your oil feed lines and make sure your oil metering valves and the internal check valves work. Mine developed air in the lines (possibly from bad ferrule tightening too), so one actuation would not fill it back up after not using for a day. There was also not enough oil being delivered after that was fixed too as the meter valve was seized I believe. I removed the protective spring that covers the lines so I could inspect.
I just checked my oil lines and one of them did have a lot of air in it after sitting for multiple days, the Z axis gib line. Took about a 90 seconds of manual feed to get oil to it. I'll have to see what I can do to remedy that. I imagine that would have caused lots of excess wear over time. Good idea to check, Thanks!
it is very fit because of air sealing performance
I enjoyed your video and taught me a lot things. You handle it with expertly.
I'm season toolmaker 47 years in the trade.
Good Video! You did a good job logically finding and solving the problem. Tormach is good at standing behind their products.
Bummer that was an issue, glad to see you got through it. We loved our 1100, sad to see people having quality issues.
Great Video, just looking at purchasing my third 1100. this will be my first 1100MX, so thanks for the videos.
Very nicely documented through the whole process!
Thank you. Probably more videos like this coming soon.
Was kinda hoping you would have included video of the tool change after the gap was corrected. Glad your repair only cost you a few O-rings and some silicone gasket sealer.
you might want to go over the whole machine... when I got my S3, all kinds of stuff was a bit out, and one of the internal oiling fittings was broken.
great video, but be wary, that black collar on the spindle cartridge could be the 'preload' adjustment, aka use a shim between it and the casting, and/or the torque of the screws, as in some bearing systems the covers adjust them (tapered roller, or angular contact bearings) and for "runout' of the spindle, you need a way of adjusting all the slop out, to keep things accurate, and also to account for spindle bearing wear.
Well done. It seems that there is inevitably some issues arising in machines like this - some mihgt say that Chinese made stiff to a price is to a greater or smaller extent a collection of parts that need finishing. I really appreciate the way you are detailing your commisioning and use of the machine as I am considering which way to go myself. Pete
Agreed. It's certainly worth recognizing that there are some rough edges on machines like this. On the other hand there haven't been too many and, if you're handy, it does provide opportunities to learn how the machine works. It can be tough to decide, really depends on what you want to be using the machine for. For example, if I had bought a nice used Haas with a 20hp 6k rpm spindle I would be kicking myself because the small tools I'm using would take forever and don't need the horsepower.
@@vcedge9466 I've recently bought a Schaublin 225 CNC lathe - which is 400mm between centers (at a stretch) - my use case is tool room prototyping relatively small parts which need good tolerances - the Schaublin is probably overkill but it was at a good price. With a mill , as you say in working with relatively small parts - the ability to use smaller diameter tooling is more important to me than horsepower Tormach have nailed the ease of use case with Path Pilot - and I am fascinated to see how well your tight tolerance requirements (eg in your manufactured bearings) is managed by the Tormach. I am comparing the Tormach to another Chinese made machine with on paper much better specifications in the Syil line at similar prices - down here in Oz we pay roughly 2X the price for the same machine that you guys pay in the US - a Haas minimill or tool mill is about 120K down here and I'm not sure there is much 'value' in that proposition.Pete
The Syil machines do seem to have at least comparable if not better specs on paper at a similar price point. I'm not sure what they're like to work with though. Let me know what you end up with.
Those two holes normally are for a Accessory Tooling Block
Allows the use of right-angle heads and speeders
Don't be so sure this was from your mishap. I had the exact same issue on my 1100MX without any crashes. Would freeze up from time to time. Tormach replaced the spindle and it still happened.- but the reason it occurred was not actually the spindle. They had a run of those nose cones (that you found scuffed) that were incorrectly machined, causing rubbing and occasional locking up. They thought there were none of those in circulation - BUT, they put returned items into service, so some of them are still out there. I bet that's what you had. Incidentally, you replaced yours incorrectly - that setscrew in the front should be at the back, according to their instructions. Don't see how it makes any difference though
I believe you are correct. They are sending me another nose cone. I'll compare them when I get it.
I have a 2 hp water cooled spindle (Taiwan)in a Axiom 3 axis gantry that has been through hell compared to what you did to yours and it still produces accurate parts without any issues.
Been fighting manual tool changes for months! I just saw the tormach video explaining the gap for the draw bar and no jam nut on the MX...
Yeah. It's working perfectly for me now by the way. No more sticking at all.
I think your right the end cap may have got jogged off center. The cap should have maybe .005-.010 clearance. It only protects the bearing.
It was slightly off but also way under sized. It had only .002" clearance on each side. Tormach gave me a new one and it has .004" clearance on each side. No problems with the new one.
The register that goes in the spindle should be concentric to the hole so it aligns to the turning spindle.
Very interesting video! Did the jam nut on the power drawbar plunger work? I'm having the same issue with my ATC - the collet doesn't;t seem to fully disengage from the pull pin on the tool causing the ATC platter to get pulled up sometimes when the spindle retracts. I was looking for a spec on the BT-30 spindle and didn't;t find one in the tormach docs.
That spacer helped dramatically, the tool changes are nice and clean now. With no tool in the spindle I set the space between the drawbar and piston to .030" and have air pressure at 100psi.
I loved this video. I am looking at the 1100MX as a choice in the future. I have a question. Do you find yourself having to change belt positions frequently?
Thanks! I have literally NEVER used the low belt range. For what I'm doing with small tools there really isn't any reason to use it.
I have same problem with my machine. I have high pitch noise for me but the spindle spins.
Very cool fix.
hello, good afternoon, I am left with a question now that I saw how you disarm it, how to position the tool to make the change and that it is aligned with respect to the slots, since nothing can be seen in the video and the motor is not positioning and it does not have toothed transmission
A sensor between the pulleys and motor reads a ring that is attached directly to the spindle. you can see it at 3:55
Great video, thanks.
I have a PCÇ100 series 3 and I crashed it in the same conditions more than I care to admit. Thanks for sharing the repair process - very helpful. I'm also curious as why you chose to put your 4th axis on the left side of the table - don't you have trouble with long drill bit clearing the tool changer ?
No particular reason for putting it on the left. I might move it later on but Its not really much higher than the vise or the pallets I'm putting in it. If it was a bigger 4th axis it would need to go on the right for sure. Since I'm making small things long drill bits aren't really a problem, plus I use machine length drills most of the time.
sir very nice information thans sir
Maybe your endmill just was pulled out of tool holder. I think so, because i have same problems in my operation.
It does not appear to be the case this time. I can tell that the floor where it did cut was nice and flat and the feed rate was double what it should have been.
@@vcedge9466 so strange, the spindle rarely has problem. This is not heavy machining and you don’t cutting hard materials such as titanium, inconel, hss,..
There should not be any damage to a WELL MADE SPINDLE if you where to break a 10 END MILLS like that in Aluminum.
I am a manufacturing engineer and have worked in several machine shops and currently run one of my own.
Max acceptable TIR for a WELL MADE BT 30 spindle should be .0002". I have a BT30 CNC mill from Automate CNC and I have broken carbide end mills by accident several times. 1/4", 3/8" and even 1/2". I have never had the any issues with my spindle.
He said the cover was made undersized that's why it touched the spindle. So if that part was to print, there would be no video.
Good video
such poor quality !! cant go even close to syil !!
And bearings? :D joke !!
Dude...You're spindle locked up because you were pushing the machine too hard/too fast.
Many push theirs too hard too fast. I guess a spindle load indicator would be a good addition.
@@macmaniacal Yes.....In fact, the early tormach 1100s had a load indicator on the machine. It was a big analog mechanical needle. Haas machine have a lod indicator, but it's rarely looked at...by me anyway.
@@motoflyte I was thinking of just hooking up an hall effect current transducer meant for home automation to one of the phase leads and mount an oled to the enclosure somewhere.
@@motoflyte like a SCT-013-015 wired to an arduino
The load indicator would be very helpful. I recognized I wanted that right away. This guy somehow figured out how to add it right on the screen. I don't see any instruction on how to do it though.