I did wanna point out the Vsync issue with DLSS FG- I was having this problem in Ghost of Tsushima and haven’t tested in other games too this point. Lmk if u have a different experience and I’ll prolly be testing this in the future
@@SweetFlexZNVIDIA fanboy detected, logic is disabled and stop hating base off of gpu choice (Btw my first gpu was a gtx 1650 so no bias) :/ Edit: goes for the "made awfully" guy too
All FSR3 needs is adoption. For every FSR3 implementation, there are 3 to 4 DLSS3 implementations, and not all devs implement it the same. It seems like Nvidia has a much bigger grasp at the market, because even when AMD matches or exceeds Nvidia, they don't get the same support from devs.
Sometimes it's really questionable why as well. As far as I know it is insanely easy to implement these technologies into a game. If DLSS can be implemented, FSR3 should at most be an equal amount of work. So not having FSR3 in games where DLSS3 Frame Gen is a thing almost seems deliberate. However since I am not a developer of any kind I could obviously be wrong so if anyone knows a lot about the matter, feel free to correct me wherever I am wrong.
nvidia are just the company developers have worked with for 20 years, AMD needs a product good enough that they can convince developers to spend money to change the workflow
@@kaystephan2610 FSR uses all the same stuff DLSS does, but FSR requires only about half of the setup DLSS does. Setting up DLSS means you have 200% of the things in place to implement FSR, but if FSR is going to be the primary upscaler, adding DLSS requires 100% more work to implement.
Lots of new games have FSR 3 implemented; Ghost of Tsushima, Starfield, Remnant II...I would love to see it in Alan Wake 2 though, I can run it fine on my 6750 XT but FG would be a nice boost since the heavy areas in the forest can drop below 60 sometimes on the highest settings and it already has DLSS FG implemented.
Nvidia probably doesn’t want their in-house FG to be that good as it would make newer gen GPU look worse. AMD doesnt care about selling new gen as much as Nvidia, so it makes sense FSR is a higher priority.
You are so wrong that it is laughable every company (AMD included)only cares about profits and old gpus are not making them money. Only thing is they are willing to develop features and roll them to older gpus to get consumers through their long term support and viability especially in mid to low tier of gpus
You do realize every time they do a GPU release they're going to flex the frame rate with DLSS and FG ON to get the longer bar graphs. Also to show off that the next gen GPUs have "better AI for DLSS FG" and all the other stuff.
They do care about profit. But their focus is making your competition not sell their new product and popularize your software solution to grow on market share, betting on adoption growth based on “the most cost effective”. I wonder what is the margin on AMD GPUs. Because let’s face it, 40 series is wildly expensive with little gain from the previous generation
@@orehcelethin. 7800XT was delayed roughly for 9 months because it is said even at $600 that gpu will be sold at or even below cost. They wait for things like memory to get cheaper before launching 7800XT.
8:49 the reason fsr looks choppy on the top half is because of the overlay that pops up. It's treated like a HUD. The area behind the words Fox Den are transparent. FSR frame generation runs HUD elements and on screen overlays at native frame rate. Very noticeable in games with large transparent HUD elements. Such as mini maps, location names, a compass, weapon wheels ECT.
Literally its only noticeable flaw as of now. In that regard DLSS FG is easier for the developer (although Nvidia needs to do some tweaking on their end to avoid garbled UI elements from FG).
Mmmm imma have to look further into that. I thought in this game the HUD elements were layered on top of FG so they didn’t have to do that but thanks for pointing that out, I’ll check it out
@@vextakes How about you compare Frame generation to My S.L.I rig? I have RTX 2080 ti with 5800x 3D rig & see if you can keep up with your RTX 4070 Anyways here is one game we can compare with each other Quake II RTX in 1080p with both GPU working in Vulkan I get around 136fps with everything enable. No AA or upscaling.
@@vextakeswhen people were modding puredarks fsr3 fg mod into games, this was a problem. he fixed it by creating a hud ui in reshade and adding it to the fg mod. i think thats what they are doing here (which shows laziness lol) maybe they couldnt figure out how to implement fsr fg under the hud? idk.
Great comparison. FSR 3.1 FG will make DLSS3 FG obsolete. As 3080ti user I'm glad. Nvidia was locking features before for no good reason and DLSS3 FG is another one on the list, AMD proved you don't need some specialized hardware to do good FG.
We all know Nvidia could have easily opened up frame gen to 30 series and likely even 20 series. Not surprising.. they are doing the same with VRAM.. always keep something valuable to use to sell the next generation. I hate Nvidia for the way they trick and screw their customers.
3080ti 12gb artifically crippled because nvidia decided to limit the max ram to 12gb for a top of the line 1600€ gpu, leading to me struggling to get stable 60fps on 1440p something this card is more then capable of.
@ThecRL0 i treat my 3080ti as a high end 1080p card. Sold off my 4k monitor and and now using a zowie 1080p. Image quality sucks but on the other hand, I'm getting 70fps in cp2077 path tracing.
@@ilovelimpfries I went the opposite direction. 4k144hz on 6950xt w/ no interest in RT or PT. Been playing Tsushima at 120+ full native 4k. I absolutely love the art style in that game.. beautiful.
but funnily enough getting fsr3 to work in Cyberpunk on AMD GPUs is a bitch so I'll have to wait for the official implementation that's supposed to come at some point 🥲
Input lag is ass compared to DLSS FG + reflex. Most of you don't even know how BIG of a difference it is in input lag because you don't own a 4000 series card.
@@mr.incognito4640 Use DLDSR + DLSS. I have a RTX 3060 I'm using high settings 1440p (1080p monitor DLDSR), DSR 60 fps ingame, nvidia reflex and FSR 3 FG. I get like 100 fps with ~50 fps latency.
Nvidias excuse to Framegen only works on 40 series is that the newer cards got a huge boost to their optical flow performance. In that case I would expect it to generate more FPS than FSR 3 which runs even on an RX 5700 XT.
Couple things. DLSS FG is different than FSR3 FG because of how it works. Nvidia is using the OFA to generate the frames, which are part of the encoder engine. The reason why it doesn't generate more frames is because DLSS is balancing delivery to maintain a smooth frametime, FSR3 doesn't do the frame pacing. It just pops the frame out as soon as its done. The higher the FPS gets, the more narrow that delivery time DLSS FG has to get the frame out, so its discarded. DLSS FG is tied to the 40 series because of how it works, its using the OFA. The OFA was upgraded with the 40 series to give it the throughput needed for this. There is a benchmark of the OFA with Ampere and the results are pretty low compared to the 40 series. So if they allowed it on the 30 series, you'd just get lower FPS. Doing an iCAT comparison is pretty silly considering you're not comparing generated frames. You're just comparing normal frames. Its incredibly hard to capture the FG frames. FG doesn't have an IQ hit on non generated frames.
This channel just pops out the most nonsense copes imaginable. Sure Nvidia does some questionable things but acting like fsr is the greatest thing in the world is ridiculous when it has so many quality problems compared to DLSS, which is a price to pay for it being so available. Everything has a trade off
@@jayceneal5273 And this video is meant for people who don't care about those problems. As simple as that. I see you as a guy complaining that someone dares like having lots of bass in their headphones instead of having it balanced. BuT wHaT aBoUt ThE mIdS??? They just don't care, they want more bass.
@@RiseOneTheFirst i never said people don't have a right to be wrong. they just shouldn't be surprised that amd is losing the gpu war more and more every year. obviously, many people do care about these problems.
I have been using Tsushima with FG and i am amazed just how well it works. Unless youre already getting over 100fps at native.. just use it. It does a great job.
People used to hate on FG without even testing it, now they have access to it they will know it's actually a great feature, same as DLSS when it launched it got a lot of hate but now every one uses it whenever possible
The reason I dislike it is because it's making developers lazy. It used to be that developers worked really hard to optimize games. I've seen a lot of newer games that are running on the newest hardware, (which don't even look that good) and they run like garbage because they just rely on upscaling and frame-generation to achieve playable frame-rates.
@@tadsnyder2756 I will say in some cases (like for Cyberpunk) it's not only necessary, but DLSS 3.5 can look better than native when using things like Path Tracing.
@@tadsnyder2756 Because they are normies and have no idea about hardware and software. People that use frame gen and upscaling should buy a console. Also, if it's all so wonderful, why isn't it just in the driver being better instead of a separate tool?
@@theskeletonboi In about 10 years your GPU will just imagine the whole game from scratch. Because that's what's happening, your DLSS is imagining new images. How can you have all the data if you upscale from a lower resolution? You can't, so it's making things up. Like 75% of the image is fake if you upscale from 1080p to 4K. Such an improvement, if you are dumb.
If Nvidia betrayed everyone with a 30 series GPU and is constantly locking new features behind new graphics cards, meanwhile AMD makes things available for everyone (inlcuding FSR upscaling and now FSR 3 with frame gen)... Then support AMD and buy their GPU's people. If you don't buy AMD's stuff, we may arrive at a point when they stop giving us that "free stuff" that works on everyone's GPU. I'm here to tell you I have an AMD gpus and I don't regret it - they work great (RX 7900 xtx + a RX 6650 XT).
AMD does not always enable their tech on older card either. RSR? i believe AMD only support down to RDNA 1 only despite AMD older card like vega and polaris can support FSR just fine. nvidia NIS supported down to their maxwell card.
@@arenzricodexd4409 Literally no one cares about RSR. It's just FSR 1 in drivers. We have Loseless Scaling for that at this point. Same goes for AFMF. Either way, AMD made it pretty clear that they are slowly ending support for GCN cards.
What bothers me the most is that they didn't even show it. They just said that they improved the optical flow accelerator on 40 series and the one in the 2000 series or 3000 series wasn't enough, but they didn't show how it looked, just said "trust me bro" and blocked it
There is to them, sales, it is obvious. Your right but it is all about the dollar. Nvidia know their customer base is so big they would have no problem selling these, which they didn't. If there were ever a chance of them including their tech in their older cards, AMD needs to find away of stealing market share from them. AMD, bless them for their open tech, they so far behind Nvidia, AMD is not threating in terms of taking away sales and market share. It is not getting any better either, they are basically becoming the kings of A.I., take a gander at their stock prices lately.
Np cap, used FSR 3 and frame gen on Ghosts of Tsu with a 1060 and had way more than 60 fps. Did the same recently on Cyberpunk with a FSR 3 mod. Got above 60 fps constantly. AMD taking Ws
@@w00t692 The whole point is that it feels good because it's 60fps... It's not just some fake FPS raising technology, it actually creates extra frames which make the game feel smoother and reduce latency. That's why its so good
@@katto1937FG has a big weakness where if you don’t have enough fps (at least 60), the game can be very flickery when FG is enabled, so if you turn on FG to get 60fps, then your experience very horrible because every time your camera moves, it feels your whole screen just wild shake.
Dlss was originally invented to boost frames for ray tracing games, but devs started to use it like you said in games that dont have RT and still run like crap.
But when it's free performance and often an improvement in picture quality (especially image stability), I see only positives in enabling it everywhere.
Funny enough, I've been playing GOT with a 3080 using FG. In fact, ive played half of the time at 7680*1440 which is triple 1440P via Nvidia Surround using DLSS balanced and FSR FG combined. I still get 80-120fps. Some of the most glorious visual experience in my decades of gaming. Can't wait for FSR 3 frame gen to be adopted in more games. May be able to hold on to my 3080 a few more years.
"DLSS Frame Generation will be Obsolete" Everyone is guessing and being bored at this point no one knows what nv will do but they will improve on it. They going to find ways for you to buy the 5090 and improvements will be made across the board. I can see DLSS 4 , A new version of frame gen along with good enough specs to make the 5090 look better over the 4090 . So Obsolete? I highly doubt it
@@MtFoxt Its going to be everything. If i had a 4090 i wouldn't rush out to get a 5090 just for path tracing and if the frame rate isnt a massive gain i wouldn't spend 2k$ to upgrade as the 4090 is a killer card anyways and gaining 50-70fps or less would be buyers remorse
@@MtFoxtThat would make sense. From what I've heard AMD will finally be replacing their old ray tracing cores with better ones, so NVIDIA marketing on something that will make AMD GPUs scream in terror is a good strategy for sure. But honestly with a high end 6000 series gpu I honsetly don't get why rtx is so "awful" on AMD. On 1440p it is perfectly playable 60fps on most games even without all this frame gen stuff.
Yeah and by the time there's DLSS 4 which is exclusive to the 5000 series, AMD will release their FSS 4 for all GPU's which will be just as good or better, like FG. Once AMD outpaces Nvidia nobody will be using a closed solution like nvidia's. It's already a huge amount of effort to implement for developers, one solution that works for everyone is much better
@@akosv96the reason why AMD suck on RT is because it take their best GPU in the 7900xtx to get similar RT performance to the 4070 Super, NVIDIA’s mid range GPU, and in games that actually implemented ray tracing and not just implemented some half bake RT shadow then call it a day, the 7900xtx would even have a hard time competes against the regular 4070
The studio behind this port is gonna be the first to implement fsr 3.1 in ratchet and crank later this year, seems like they may be testing some of the features.
Dude, you are almost at 75K. You were just at 500...75K means you actually have a real job as a creator now. Like make enough money to _get by_ level of employment! Congrats kiddo, you basically made it. For reference, I remember when hardware Unboxed was at 75K, a decent amount behind _"Tech Yes City"_ at the time with whom he used to do a weekly podcast with in 2017. So that obviously means in 7 years you'll have a couple million subs and a _"Yes Man"_ partner (kidding, Tim's cool...and doesn't hate VA panels bc he knows they are awesome for single player games)! Good luck, and yep, more games should 100% add FSR frame gen to their games.
3070ti here, so this is huge! the colour on the fsr looked close to the native too, the dlss was a lot brighter. that maybe just settings i dont know for sure.
The upscaling is still FSR 2.2. The only thing they have done is decouple the frame gen so other upscalers can be used. This was already possible via the mods so the devs were probably given the go ahead by AMD to do it for this game. I hope FSR3.1 is a fair bit better than the current version.
I think that DLSS FG gives you around 165 FPS because some configuration either on your graphics card or some other program limits the FPS to 165 since I assume the refresh rate of your monitor is 165Hz, on the other hand, FSR 3 FG disables this FPS limitation and that's why it gives you more FPS. If you find and disable this FPS limitation, DLSS FG will also give you almost 200 FPS
What we're likely seeing here is the reason _why_ DLSS FG isn't available on 30 series GPUs, as even the 40 series is struggling to generate frames at high frame rates. See with FPS in games as the number of FPS increases, the *time between frames decreases.* What this means is that when your NVIDIA GPU is generating frames the algorithm it's using has _less_ time to generate the in between frames. The ML algorithm that's running is likely not tuned to generate frames when there's _tons_ of frame data already, so it's doing more work than is necessary to construct new frames. There's plenty of data it can pull from but it's taking _too long_ to generate a new frame and by the generated frame is created, the regular CUDA hardware has already finished rendering many, _many_ new frames ahead of it. Making the in between frame worthless as we're already well past that in between frame. There's likely a fix for this, changing the way frame data is gathered and _when_ the in between frame is placed, but it could also be that the Tensor Cores in the 4070 just can't keep up with the CUDA cores _no matter what._ Frame smoothing technology has existed for _fucking forever,_ it's been in our TVs since the start of the past decade. Frame generation technology is quite similar, but we want less smear and more clarity and have the hardware to back such complex algorithms (There isn't a RTX 4070 in your TV exactly). So... AMD were pretty much already dealing with a _solved problem._ NVIDIA decided the best way to tackle this was to use deep learning. Well it turned out the deep learning approach didn't work out quite as well as it did with DLSS. “An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity" -Terry A. Davis
Амд впервые удалось сделать в этой игре приличную сглажку фср, для конкуренции с известной длаа. Таа же мыло давно никто в расчет не берет. Однако болезни фср остались, это небольшой перешарп, как наждачная бумага и некоторая пиксельность волос и контуров огня. Так что рано автор видео стал списывать длсс. В хорошем количестве игр длсс сейчас длаа и "качество" с резкостью 50-70 показывает качество четче оригинала в 2к\4к и конечно с увеличением фпс. А генератор так и вообще у НВ более плавный, с низкой задержкой, а у Амд более лаговый.
I wouldn't mind if we got FSR FG on every game if it meant we actually got FG in every game. Even if I didn't _need_ it, it's still appreciated when playing on high refreshrate monitors. But don't make me use FSR upscaling, that shit looks terrible in motion, give me DLSS or give me nothing.
Tbh my only problem with the game, right now, is that sometimes the game doesn't look smooth at all when i lock the framerate at 60 with a perfectly flat frametime graph. I do that to almost all of my games because i'm still on a RTX 2060 Super and not having my gpu running at 90+% utilization makes it WAY quieter (also my case isn't that great either), but for some reason Ghost of Tsushima is the only game where sometimes the game feels laggy even though the frametime graphi is flat and the CPU is not even close to reach 100% utilization. So, my first fix was to use fsr frame gen at 100hz (i have a 144hz monitor that i run at 120hz to make 60fps games look better), because locking the game fps through the driver couple with fsr frame gen would just freeze the game. They released a patch that fix that so i was locking the game at 60fps + fsr frame gen but the algorithm that runs the frame gen made my gpu hit 95+% utilization almost all the time BUT it gave me 120fps most of the time (and was dipping to minimum 105fps even in heavy scenes), so the gpu noises problem was back. All of that text to say that the fsr frame gen algorithm is quite heavy on the gpu and for anyone with a "weak" gpu who want a smooth experience and lowering the gpu utilization, set the game to 100hz + fsr game gen (and vsync ofc). If you set the game to 60hz + fsr frame gen, the game will run at 30fps internally and it won't look smooth at all (at least in my opinion) AND the response time of the game will be atrocious.
I can see well the difference by slowing down to 25, FSR is definitely smoother then DSSL! Your effort you took to show us is incredible! Thanks for your work and information you sharing with us! Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹
Playing on an alienware aw3423dwf, oled 34 inch ultrawide monitor with hdr, a rtx 4070 super, the game looks gorgeous, i even forget i'm playing a game sometimes
I bought an rx 7800 xt to upgrade from my 3070. I was using dlss I’m most games but now I use fg (in the drivers) and it looks really good. It is sometimes blurry when it comes to texts but the rest is sharp. Couldn’t be happier.
Is Frame Generation inside AMD's drivers? Or are you maybe confusing it with Fluid Motion Frames? I'm asking because i have a 6650xt and I don't have Frame Gen in the drivers, so I have to use mods or 3rd party apps that utilize FSR3 frame gen.
I am having issues with the afmf... It's choppy AF and generally unusable. 6950 XT 4k144hz free sync monitor on display port cable. Any recommendations?
You downgraded from DLSS to AFMF and Couldn't be happier ? Something doesn't add up here. You know that thing doesn't even work during fast motion right ?
@@Lemmiou holy shit this is great news! I was hoping that happens because as Christopher says, Fluid motion frames is very unstable, when we all get driver level Frame Gen, Nvidia cards will be done 😂
What a sad state to rely on frame generation and upscaling to get smooth framerates these days. Upscaling looks like ass compared to older games running with 4x msaa/ 2x ssaa, Frame generation breaks with fast movement Frame generation doesn't improve the input lag that you expect with actual higher framerates.
I've seen that many games with FSR 3 they show like 30 or 60 additional frames than DLSS 3. But if you see a comparison between both in slow motion it looks like DLSS 3 is much much smoother than FSR 3. Not in this case since they look very similar
Good to see AMD hasn't given up on catching up. They are still keeping Nvidia on their toes. It doesn't matter how good your hardware is if the software sucks
Bought it 2 days ago, ngl this software is black magic. As long as my frames are above 40 to 50 it works really well, cant wait for further development to be made
Tested this out myself. FSR FG does indeed give you tons more FPS compared to DLSS FG in Ghost of Tsushima. Looks the same too. Highly recommended; thanks vex!
While I love AMD for creating FSR to give life to a lot of older cards, I generally don't use it because it makes the graphics blurrier. I'd rather get 60FPS with clear imagery, rather than 120FPS and have textures become blurry.
I have AMD 7800X3D and RX7800 XT and game keeps crashing with some graphics bug even with most recent drivers. I tried all combinations of graphics setting, TAA, FSR and framegen on/off. Still keeps crashing. I read some forums and other people has this problem as well even with nvidia gpus. I hope they patch the game soon, because it is a really good title I want to play. But not now.
@@monsterboomer8051 One Thing with AMD i have noticed before on DX version based game at least for my system is that they tend to crash when not installed on C drive(window drive). I have some vulkan based title and they run normally on D or other drive just DX game only. My system is 5900x and 6700xt.
I bought a Quadro RTX 4000 for DLSS 2.4. I can just get FSR 3 frame gen outright? Sick, this Windows 8.1 workstation will be a beast... Well, no. It won't Steam removed Windows 7 and 8 a few months ago. Minecraft Dungeons won't have these features, I'm so done with Crossout... GOG purchases maybe? I wonder what's on there. I'll let Linux keep Steam working for the next decade while Google tells Steam to remove Windows 10 for no reason.
If we are at the point of slowing things down, zooming in pixel to pixel, I think FSR FG is a winner here lol. We're playing a game, not looking at photoshop, so yeah. High motion gaming, I'm not going to be able to tell. Props to AMD, shame on Nvidia trying to make their proprietary tech for 40-series cards only. Both AMD and Intel are laughing at NVIDIA with FG and Supersampling lol.
You really shouldn't care just check which one is better for you I got a 7800xt and 7700x because there is no reason for me to get 4070 but if there was a better option from Nvidia back then I would've got it you're the winner if there are multiple choices.
yea theyve gotten so greedy. the 40 series is such a cashgrab only maybe the 4070 is decent. the 4080 is just market illusion to make u save a bit more to get the 4090. really scummy
I just hope nvidia doesn’t get greedy. 10 series was amazing value, 20 series was alright just new tech that nobody really used, 30 series was great value (but u couldn’t even find it at msrp) and then 40 series is just dog crap value and performance. 50 series has to be good value
@@pravnav "50 series has to be good value" is gonna age terribly probably considering its NVIDIA and looking at their previous price increases, with people still buying no matter what, they think they can take more.
Dlss is really intended for 4k resolution, performance gains while using lower resolutions are somewhat negligible. Try switching to 4k with resolution scaling and frame generation and see what kind of fps you get
This game is super optimized, kudos to the devs. My system is a Xeon E3-1280 v3, 16gb ddr3 and RTX 3050 6gb (yes the one and only) and this game is giving me 90 to more than 100fps using DLSS quality + FSR FG @1080p high settings.
The problem with this test is that you're comparing 1440p footage. 50% 1440p is basically 1080p, which is already full high definition. step the output to 1080p and 50% scale should be 764p, from there you should definitely be able to see what Nvidia and AMD are doing respectively. 10:09 oh BROTHER, WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN?! 25%=720p, 50%=1018p
FYI. If you use AMD graphic cards, you could enable AMD FSR and Frame Generation literally on EVERY games! even for every game that doesn't any upscaling or frame generation feature. I've tested it using 6650XT on Monster hunter world and Code vein with 2K ultrawide monitor and medium-high graphic settings. It surprisingly works really well to push the famerates into 110-150 fps. AMD is insane
DLSS is consistently smoother than FRS. It's not marginal, it stands out any time you pan around. So, bottom line, give me a break. FSR is over rated here.
I was about to say, it's been well documented that AMD's frame gen in this game introduces disparity in frame pacing. The title is silly and I was dumb for clicking it.
Amd letting other cards use fsr3 FG is a good move because now developers have reason to put in on games because now more than 70% of players can use it but in DLSS3 FG only 10% at most can use it it alse applys to amd if thay locked FG to only amd gpus. So now we can say fsr3 FG is bigger market share than DLSS upscaler it make sense for devs to use it in new titles and maybe thay add it to some older games too. And there is the catch: What if that non sense flow accelator is not usable for other tasks??? You pay Nvidia to put useless silicone to your gpu. I Hope its not true but it could be.
at 6:45 you see DLSS discards nearby flying particles (behind the back) while FSR keeps them but doesn't seem to add good frames so it looks a bit chopier but closer to the original.
Whatever the method is, the ideal is to have framegen at the rendering levels so it's applying to the 3D rendered stuff only. Framegen doesn't know what's 3D and what's a 2D UI element. It can do weird things to 2D UI overlays. Another major difference is having access to motion vectors. That's the rendering side making "keyframe" style data about the directions of motion in an image. Like with video compression, except per frame. This allows the framegen to very accurately create those in-between frames, where fast and complex movement might trip up regular optical flow framegen that doesn't have access to the rendering pipeline. The real ideal would be if the developers were all using an API that gave the GPU/CPU access to the depth maps and motion vectors etc all separately and cleanly so anything could hook into it.
To my surprise the disocclusion on the flask was even better on FSR than DLSS which was quite artefacty. Also the chopping we saw later is due tu how FSR FG handle UI: as a zone excluded from FG. We can see quite easily the virtual rectangle that is choppy whereas just above and below it is smooth.
4060ti user here. DLSS + FG is my way to go. Never got any problems or artifacts when i play. It's really a good feature to be honest. As long as you're using a high refresh rate monitor, you're gonna have no problem at all.
Highly recommend testing system latency or "click to shoot" latency in some way. Previous tests show a generally worse input latency with fsr3 than dlssfg. Most tests i saw were a fair bit higher where a 4090 would be at 45ms total latency vs 60ms total latency with fsr3.
I use it for frame gen dlss mod on my 3080. And I am quite happy with the result. I have played Cyberpunk, Alan Wake 2, and Forspoken. Currently, I am playing Hellblade 2 with this mod. Getting fps over 100 in high settings at 1440p is phenomenal. With that anyone can use 30 series card for even longer times and get good fps in games.
As an AMD user,i use FSR3 frame gen AND Lossless Scaling LS1 upscaler, its better than FSR similar to DLSS. LS1 also looks good with TAA, you can also use Lossless Frame gen on top but the latency is noticeable at this point.
Wanna know something crazy?... XeSS and TSR are both really good rn, I was playing The First Descendant Final Technical test a couple of days ago, and I noticed the two I mentioned might increase a bit of latency, but the fact is if you select the right performance optimization level for your GPU and CPU, it got a lot better looking quality than the FSR at similar levels of Optimization... If you want pure FPS increase though, FSR is still best in my experience... Especially for a 1600 series gpu users like...
This is neat. I wonder if there’s higher lag with FSR FG. I’m sure there would be since there’s more frames. I just really love DLSS in terms of upscaling and the FG tech is irrelevant to me. So if devs continue decoupling the FG tech then it’s a win for 30 series owners. That said I’m glad I went from my 3060 laptop to my 4080 PC, the additional smoothness from FG really helps with getting 100+ frames on Wukong while looking pristine on my 4K TV. Having Upscaling and Frame Gen separate isn’t a trend yet but I hope it becomes one because then my GPU will have a longer shelf life
I'm on a 1080 Ti at 1440p, max settings, using XeSS Quality along with AMD FG, and I'm getting around 80-100 FPS. All of these settings combinations are giving more life to Pascal. God bless AMD and Intel. lol
I've been trying it out on Starfield and kind of loving FSR3 and Frame Gen. I've noticed very subtle ghosting in very specific scenarios, but it is a surprisingly mature product from AMD who, even though I am a fan doesn't have a great track record with new technologies at launch. My main concern was ofc latency but I'mma be honest I don't feel it, and this is coming from a speedrunner in various games, so I am... defo sensitive to it. Ghost is on the bucket list
Just tried this on my own 4070, and i got to say FSR even feels way smoother when it comes to latency which is probably the major reason i prefer to not use FG if i dont need to.
Welp, just bought a new pc, oh well its a considerable upgrade and is very satisfying regardless. But yea hopefully this will be implemented well. On my old PC Grayzone Warfare allowed non AMD users to use their AmD framegen. Which brought it to about 80 fps on a 3070ti 10700k. However the input lag was so bad that it felt extremely sluggish, yet looked smooth. Also it gave my pc instability, crashed quite a few times. I ended up playing with just standard DLSS on medium settings and the aiming felt a lot snappier and quick, albeit at a slide show at like 40 fps. Glad to hear its better implennted in this game. I think maybe in Grayzone it just added too many frames on such a shaky foundation. Like you want framegen to go from 110 to 140, not 40 to 80
Hey Vex, theres a Frame gen mod that works in pretty much every game (except multiplayer ones for anti-cheat problems) which enables DLSS Frame Gen for all RTX cards. I used it on MSFS 2020 on both my RTX 3050 and RTX 2060S and it worked flawlessly.
@@Crazy09starkillor No, its a frame gen enabler mod. Literally. You drag and drop some files in the game directory, and you also disable nvidia signature check, and then you will find frame gen available for use.
I've been using Driver level frame generation even for GTA 5 when playing online with my 7900XTX at 4k ultrawide (3840x1600). It chops my gpu usage to half and no more framerate dips. I must say Frame generation has come forward a lot, if I can just use it on any game to get to that 4k +120fps and not really notice a big difference in gameplay.
Bro!! Plz plz plz make a same topic video but on BLACK MYTH: WUKONG let’s see FSR VS DLSS FRAME GENERATION side by side also DLSS WITH AMD FRAME GENERATION MOD which one is best, plz plz I request to you..🙏🙏🙏🙏
The amount of misinformation on this one video is astonishing. People just take information and go with it don't they. Vex, you're not even close to being 1% truthful here. The fact that your FPS counters are different in sheer FPS is based on how the frames are being generated. DLSS is not obsolete..... You haven't discovered anything new, nor is FSR 3.0 or 3.1 revolutionary. Where you are even more disingenuous is where you pretend that comparing the two is pointless since they're almost identical. Albeit you said that DLSS is "smoother maybe". Hillarious. Also the clips you chose for the showcase. You dawg, you think everyone's a lamb don't you. Please use trustworthy content creators and factual truths. Ask for frame times as a minimum. Look into HOW the frames are being generated and why "Frame generation" or should I say frame interpolation, has these two vastly different methods, and what's actually different about them. The internet is full of people like you Vex. And this is why a good product, or a good software solution, is never the most successful one.
@@Scythical What do you consider native? TAA? In badly implement cases it can be. Like red dead 2, the TAA is so bad that DLSS does edge it out. But if you're already using DLSS, might as well compare it to DLAA. Which is the same exact thing minus the upscaling. And at that point it's "an estimate of where pixels should be" vs "real knowledge of where they are". Obviously knowledge will be better than a guess. Guesses are rarely correct 100% of the time. If it looked the same, with that logic dlss balanced should also look the same. And performance. But they don't, every time you add more upscaling the image gets blurrier since the AI can't create those sharp native details. DLSS does not look broken or wrong in any way, but it always leads to a lower perceived resolution in the final image, more blurrier. Compared to 100% rendering resolution. So my point in the end is that DLAA and DLSS Quality do not look the same, I can tell the difference immediately on a 1440p monitor. (The Last of Us, Uncharted, God of War, Sons of the Forest, Deathloop, Horizon FD&FW, Alan Wake 2, The Casting of Frank stone. In all of these games and more I've seen it in action and noticed the loss of clarity with DLSS enabled and set to Quality.) If you can't see the difference, there is something you're missing. Because it is there. I'm fine with people not minding it, but saying they look identical or as good is a false statement.
I'll add a point which I noticed while playing ghost of tsusima, On my 4050 laptop using dlss quality and DLSS FG static texts and items on screen and the lower portion of the screen where grass is present will cause weird ghosting issue when I turn around fast as if someone is smudging an oil paint, which is NON existent on FSR3.0
I did wanna point out the Vsync issue with DLSS FG- I was having this problem in Ghost of Tsushima and haven’t tested in other games too this point. Lmk if u have a different experience and I’ll prolly be testing this in the future
and if we cant add frame gen we can also now use lossless scaling from steam
ehmm you dont need to enable vsync in any games if nvidia controlpanel has vsync enable.. optimally you wouldn't want to enable vsync twice
there's some really weird lighting problems with in game frame gen, I haven't been able to use it.
if you look at the ground on the comparison tool dlss is clearly choppier
why I gods green earth would u use Vsync oh nevermind maybe a Gync Monitor is not being used...
I'am glad I didn't upgrade this generation. Thanks to AMD for adding new features to my 3080.
Lol
What?! That's wild bro I didn't know AMD and Nvidia were working together.
@christophermullins7163 More like AMD being open, Nvidia wouldn't work together with AMD GPU division if it was the last thing they do.
you wanted to upgrade a 3080? bro I was about to say with my rx570 for a couple more years hadn't I found a 1080ti for 200
@@christophermullins7163 They're not, every gpu can use AMD tech because they made it open unlike Nvidia
Nvidia Framegen uses AI
AMD Framegen uses black magic
one is made awfully (Nvidia) and the other is made with care with flaws that could be improved (AMD).
@@vagamer522 AMD Fanboy detected.
Which GPU do you have?
@@SweetFlexZNVIDIA fanboy detected, logic is disabled and stop hating base off of gpu choice
(Btw my first gpu was a gtx 1650 so no bias) :/
Edit: goes for the "made awfully" guy too
@@PricklyPringle12 Intel fanboy detected, knowing he is inferior and lashing out on others
@@PricklyPringle12 Epic logic from you, nice.
Not wasting time with this tbh, but hey, keep defending shit like the guy I was answering is saying,
All FSR3 needs is adoption.
For every FSR3 implementation, there are 3 to 4 DLSS3 implementations, and not all devs implement it the same. It seems like Nvidia has a much bigger grasp at the market, because even when AMD matches or exceeds Nvidia, they don't get the same support from devs.
Sometimes it's really questionable why as well. As far as I know it is insanely easy to implement these technologies into a game. If DLSS can be implemented, FSR3 should at most be an equal amount of work. So not having FSR3 in games where DLSS3 Frame Gen is a thing almost seems deliberate.
However since I am not a developer of any kind I could obviously be wrong so if anyone knows a lot about the matter, feel free to correct me wherever I am wrong.
nvidia are just the company developers have worked with for 20 years, AMD needs a product good enough that they can convince developers to spend money to change the workflow
@@kaystephan2610 FSR uses all the same stuff DLSS does, but FSR requires only about half of the setup DLSS does. Setting up DLSS means you have 200% of the things in place to implement FSR, but if FSR is going to be the primary upscaler, adding DLSS requires 100% more work to implement.
you have fsr on driver lvl
Lots of new games have FSR 3 implemented; Ghost of Tsushima, Starfield, Remnant II...I would love to see it in Alan Wake 2 though, I can run it fine on my 6750 XT but FG would be a nice boost since the heavy areas in the forest can drop below 60 sometimes on the highest settings and it already has DLSS FG implemented.
Nvidia probably doesn’t want their in-house FG to be that good as it would make newer gen GPU look worse. AMD doesnt care about selling new gen as much as Nvidia, so it makes sense FSR is a higher priority.
You are so wrong that it is laughable every company (AMD included)only cares about profits and old gpus are not making them money.
Only thing is they are willing to develop features and roll them to older gpus to get consumers through their long term support and viability especially in mid to low tier of gpus
You do realize every time they do a GPU release they're going to flex the frame rate with DLSS and FG ON to get the longer bar graphs. Also to show off that the next gen GPUs have "better AI for DLSS FG" and all the other stuff.
@@tomislav2494 is that not what they said?
They do care about profit. But their focus is making your competition not sell their new product and popularize your software solution to grow on market share, betting on adoption growth based on “the most cost effective”. I wonder what is the margin on AMD GPUs. Because let’s face it, 40 series is wildly expensive with little gain from the previous generation
@@orehcelethin. 7800XT was delayed roughly for 9 months because it is said even at $600 that gpu will be sold at or even below cost. They wait for things like memory to get cheaper before launching 7800XT.
I was bothered that my 3070ti laptop would be bad in a few years, now we got FSR and I'm more than happy
Me watching the video with gts 450 that doesn't support any frame generation:
@@mr0mooz368 real
@@mr0mooz368Jeez, i pray you get an upgrade soon lol
@@X_irtz Pray hardware jesus
@@X_irtz thx lol
8:49 the reason fsr looks choppy on the top half is because of the overlay that pops up. It's treated like a HUD. The area behind the words Fox Den are transparent. FSR frame generation runs HUD elements and on screen overlays at native frame rate. Very noticeable in games with large transparent HUD elements. Such as mini maps, location names, a compass, weapon wheels ECT.
Literally its only noticeable flaw as of now. In that regard DLSS FG is easier for the developer (although Nvidia needs to do some tweaking on their end to avoid garbled UI elements from FG).
Mmmm imma have to look further into that. I thought in this game the HUD elements were layered on top of FG so they didn’t have to do that but thanks for pointing that out, I’ll check it out
@@vextakes How about you compare Frame generation to My S.L.I rig?
I have RTX 2080 ti with 5800x 3D rig & see if you can keep up with your RTX 4070
Anyways here is one game we can compare with each other Quake II RTX in 1080p with both GPU working in Vulkan I get around 136fps with everything enable. No AA or upscaling.
@@vextakeswhen people were modding puredarks fsr3 fg mod into games, this was a problem. he fixed it by creating a hud ui in reshade and adding it to the fg mod. i think thats what they are doing here (which shows laziness lol) maybe they couldnt figure out how to implement fsr fg under the hud? idk.
@@adeptalakay could be tech limitation.
Great comparison. FSR 3.1 FG will make DLSS3 FG obsolete. As 3080ti user I'm glad. Nvidia was locking features before for no good reason and DLSS3 FG is another one on the list, AMD proved you don't need some specialized hardware to do good FG.
We all know Nvidia could have easily opened up frame gen to 30 series and likely even 20 series. Not surprising.. they are doing the same with VRAM.. always keep something valuable to use to sell the next generation. I hate Nvidia for the way they trick and screw their customers.
3080ti 12gb artifically crippled because nvidia decided to limit the max ram to 12gb for a top of the line 1600€ gpu, leading to me struggling to get stable 60fps on 1440p something this card is more then capable of.
@ThecRL0 i treat my 3080ti as a high end 1080p card. Sold off my 4k monitor and and now using a zowie 1080p. Image quality sucks but on the other hand, I'm getting 70fps in cp2077 path tracing.
@@ilovelimpfries I went the opposite direction. 4k144hz on 6950xt w/ no interest in RT or PT. Been playing Tsushima at 120+ full native 4k. I absolutely love the art style in that game.. beautiful.
3080Ti user here as well
the FS3 mod on Cyberpunk 2077 is life saving man
How bro?
@@saadmanabid7856It allows you to use FSR3 even though Cyberpunk doesn't natively support it
Fr getting 200 for without ray tracing and 120 with
but funnily enough getting fsr3 to work in Cyberpunk on AMD GPUs is a bitch so I'll have to wait for the official implementation that's supposed to come at some point 🥲
I decided not to use the mod, it gives like +~20fps in some areas but it takes away ~20fps in other areas.
i got 60 fps with a 1050 on a laptop 💀
Dang that's nice.
Wowza! That's really good💯❤😝
damn they did a good job
Cool
1050 laptop in a nutshell☠☠☠☠☠
Perfect timing, just when I was about to start eating, now I can watch something as well.
comrad
Gen A frontal lobe rot
DLAA + FSR Frame Gen is the best setting for this game..
Edit: I have a 3060 and its giving me around 80 fps (1080p)..
dlaa native 1440 looks best to me on a 4070. dlss frame gen still looks better to me. fsr oversharpens way to much.
@@Lockwood360 I'm on 1080p native so fsr frame gen is better for me ..
Input lag is ass compared to DLSS FG + reflex. Most of you don't even know how BIG of a difference it is in input lag because you don't own a 4000 series card.
@@mr.incognito4640 Use DLDSR + DLSS. I have a RTX 3060 I'm using high settings 1440p (1080p monitor DLDSR), DSR 60 fps ingame, nvidia reflex and FSR 3 FG. I get like 100 fps with ~50 fps latency.
@@AdiiS What about FSR 3 FG with Nvidia reflex + boost?
Nvidias excuse to Framegen only works on 40 series is that the newer cards got a huge boost to their optical flow performance. In that case I would expect it to generate more FPS than FSR 3 which runs even on an RX 5700 XT.
Couple things.
DLSS FG is different than FSR3 FG because of how it works. Nvidia is using the OFA to generate the frames, which are part of the encoder engine. The reason why it doesn't generate more frames is because DLSS is balancing delivery to maintain a smooth frametime, FSR3 doesn't do the frame pacing. It just pops the frame out as soon as its done. The higher the FPS gets, the more narrow that delivery time DLSS FG has to get the frame out, so its discarded.
DLSS FG is tied to the 40 series because of how it works, its using the OFA. The OFA was upgraded with the 40 series to give it the throughput needed for this. There is a benchmark of the OFA with Ampere and the results are pretty low compared to the 40 series. So if they allowed it on the 30 series, you'd just get lower FPS.
Doing an iCAT comparison is pretty silly considering you're not comparing generated frames. You're just comparing normal frames. Its incredibly hard to capture the FG frames. FG doesn't have an IQ hit on non generated frames.
Finally an answer from a person with brain
This channel just pops out the most nonsense copes imaginable. Sure Nvidia does some questionable things but acting like fsr is the greatest thing in the world is ridiculous when it has so many quality problems compared to DLSS, which is a price to pay for it being so available. Everything has a trade off
Just cap your fps
@@jayceneal5273 And this video is meant for people who don't care about those problems. As simple as that. I see you as a guy complaining that someone dares like having lots of bass in their headphones instead of having it balanced. BuT wHaT aBoUt ThE mIdS??? They just don't care, they want more bass.
@@RiseOneTheFirst i never said people don't have a right to be wrong. they just shouldn't be surprised that amd is losing the gpu war more and more every year. obviously, many people do care about these problems.
I have been using Tsushima with FG and i am amazed just how well it works. Unless youre already getting over 100fps at native.. just use it. It does a great job.
You def want to use it if you're getting over 100 fps on a high refresh monitor. It should only be used at high fps due to latency
Yes, you are right, DLSS is Legacy, the future is in a more flexible technology, open to all platforms not just Nvidia. Nice video . Thank you
Maybe not because they want to sell for higher prices so proprietary tech is mandatory
@@pav1u What happened to G-Sync then? Lmao
LOL. Right. Not gonna happen with the market share Nvidia got.
mrlloroncagatodo JANAJAJA
@@pav1u proprietary tech that work on 5% of cards for like less than one year when new version of the tech and cards is out is worthless
People used to hate on FG without even testing it, now they have access to it they will know it's actually a great feature, same as DLSS when it launched it got a lot of hate but now every one uses it whenever possible
The reason I dislike it is because it's making developers lazy. It used to be that developers worked really hard to optimize games. I've seen a lot of newer games that are running on the newest hardware, (which don't even look that good) and they run like garbage because they just rely on upscaling and frame-generation to achieve playable frame-rates.
I don’t use either when I can avoid it. Why would I want it over pure Raster.
@@tadsnyder2756 I will say in some cases (like for Cyberpunk) it's not only necessary, but DLSS 3.5 can look better than native when using things like Path Tracing.
@@tadsnyder2756 Because they are normies and have no idea about hardware and software. People that use frame gen and upscaling should buy a console.
Also, if it's all so wonderful, why isn't it just in the driver being better instead of a separate tool?
@@theskeletonboi In about 10 years your GPU will just imagine the whole game from scratch. Because that's what's happening, your DLSS is imagining new images.
How can you have all the data if you upscale from a lower resolution? You can't, so it's making things up.
Like 75% of the image is fake if you upscale from 1080p to 4K.
Such an improvement, if you are dumb.
How about comparing this with more movement - i.e. camera rotation? Just running in straight line is hardly worst case scenario for frame generation.
If Nvidia betrayed everyone with a 30 series GPU and is constantly locking new features behind new graphics cards, meanwhile AMD makes things available for everyone (inlcuding FSR upscaling and now FSR 3 with frame gen)... Then support AMD and buy their GPU's people. If you don't buy AMD's stuff, we may arrive at a point when they stop giving us that "free stuff" that works on everyone's GPU. I'm here to tell you I have an AMD gpus and I don't regret it - they work great (RX 7900 xtx + a RX 6650 XT).
AMD does not always enable their tech on older card either. RSR? i believe AMD only support down to RDNA 1 only despite AMD older card like vega and polaris can support FSR just fine. nvidia NIS supported down to their maxwell card.
My puter isn't just a glorified gaming console. AMD is a nonstarter if you work with anything running on Cuda, tensorflow, optix, pytorch etc.
Не надо покупать их карты только потому, что они "корпорация добра". Они такие же как и Nvidia и наглеть будут не меньше при любом удобном случае
@@SaltyMaud Not discrediting your statement but 90% of Nvidia buyers buy it because that's all they know, not because it's good.
@@arenzricodexd4409 Literally no one cares about RSR. It's just FSR 1 in drivers. We have Loseless Scaling for that at this point. Same goes for AFMF. Either way, AMD made it pretty clear that they are slowly ending support for GCN cards.
Cat didn't block your view, cat just brought you my like under the video!
There was never a reason why frame gen is exclusive to RTX 40 series when all of AI and optical flow hardware is available on all RTX GPUs.
That’s the only way they can sell the 40 series
@@pravnav Agreed
What bothers me the most is that they didn't even show it. They just said that they improved the optical flow accelerator on 40 series and the one in the 2000 series or 3000 series wasn't enough, but they didn't show how it looked, just said "trust me bro" and blocked it
There is to them, sales, it is obvious. Your right but it is all about the dollar. Nvidia know their customer base is so big they would have no problem selling these, which they didn't. If there were ever a chance of them including their tech in their older cards, AMD needs to find away of stealing market share from them. AMD, bless them for their open tech, they so far behind Nvidia, AMD is not threating in terms of taking away sales and market share. It is not getting any better either, they are basically becoming the kings of A.I., take a gander at their stock prices lately.
Apart from profit motive you mean
It does, I was amazed at the performance on my GTX 1070 with FSR
In which games have you tried it with FSR?
Np cap, used FSR 3 and frame gen on Ghosts of Tsu with a 1060 and had way more than 60 fps.
Did the same recently on Cyberpunk with a FSR 3 mod. Got above 60 fps constantly. AMD taking Ws
60 with a 1060 is crazy
Does it actually feel good though I would think on a 1060 would probably feel pretty atrocious
@@w00t692 The whole point is that it feels good because it's 60fps... It's not just some fake FPS raising technology, it actually creates extra frames which make the game feel smoother and reduce latency. That's why its so good
@@katto1937FG has a big weakness where if you don’t have enough fps (at least 60), the game can be very flickery when FG is enabled, so if you turn on FG to get 60fps, then your experience very horrible because every time your camera moves, it feels your whole screen just wild shake.
@@w00t692 Ngl. It's ok on Cyberpunk. On Ghosts it felt no different than native. For a 1060, it's brilliant imo.
Well to be fair DLSS was always a temporary patch. It stood for: Developer's Lack in Software Skill
@alargecorgi2199at least amd respects their customers and their money
Dlss was originally invented to boost frames for ray tracing games, but devs started to use it like you said in games that dont have RT and still run like crap.
@@djeezy808 Devs are using dlls to avoid optimising their games
But when it's free performance and often an improvement in picture quality (especially image stability), I see only positives in enabling it everywhere.
@@Motivatedman604That's a fanboy comment.
Funny enough, I've been playing GOT with a 3080 using FG. In fact, ive played half of the time at 7680*1440 which is triple 1440P via Nvidia Surround using DLSS balanced and FSR FG combined. I still get 80-120fps. Some of the most glorious visual experience in my decades of gaming. Can't wait for FSR 3 frame gen to be adopted in more games. May be able to hold on to my 3080 a few more years.
FSR even uses less vram than dlssg, again fixing another problem Nvidia caused vram starving the 3080
"DLSS Frame Generation will be Obsolete"
Everyone is guessing and being bored at this point no one knows what nv will do but they will improve on it. They going to find ways for you to buy the 5090 and improvements will be made across the board. I can see DLSS 4 , A new version of frame gen along with good enough specs to make the 5090 look better over the 4090 .
So Obsolete? I highly doubt it
Probably path tracing would be their main selling point for 5090
@@MtFoxt Its going to be everything. If i had a 4090 i wouldn't rush out to get a 5090 just for path tracing and if the frame rate isnt a massive gain i wouldn't spend 2k$ to upgrade as the 4090 is a killer card anyways and gaining 50-70fps or less would be buyers remorse
@@MtFoxtThat would make sense.
From what I've heard AMD will finally be replacing their old ray tracing cores with better ones, so NVIDIA marketing on something that will make AMD GPUs scream in terror is a good strategy for sure.
But honestly with a high end 6000 series gpu I honsetly don't get why rtx is so "awful" on AMD. On 1440p it is perfectly playable 60fps on most games even without all this frame gen stuff.
Yeah and by the time there's DLSS 4 which is exclusive to the 5000 series, AMD will release their FSS 4 for all GPU's which will be just as good or better, like FG. Once AMD outpaces Nvidia nobody will be using a closed solution like nvidia's. It's already a huge amount of effort to implement for developers, one solution that works for everyone is much better
@@akosv96the reason why AMD suck on RT is because it take their best GPU in the 7900xtx to get similar RT performance to the 4070 Super, NVIDIA’s mid range GPU, and in games that actually implemented ray tracing and not just implemented some half bake RT shadow then call it a day, the 7900xtx would even have a hard time competes against the regular 4070
The studio behind this port is gonna be the first to implement fsr 3.1 in ratchet and crank later this year, seems like they may be testing some of the features.
Dude, you are almost at 75K. You were just at 500...75K means you actually have a real job as a creator now. Like make enough money to _get by_ level of employment! Congrats kiddo, you basically made it. For reference, I remember when hardware Unboxed was at 75K, a decent amount behind _"Tech Yes City"_ at the time with whom he used to do a weekly podcast with in 2017. So that obviously means in 7 years you'll have a couple million subs and a _"Yes Man"_ partner (kidding, Tim's cool...and doesn't hate VA panels bc he knows they are awesome for single player games)! Good luck, and yep, more games should 100% add FSR frame gen to their games.
Honestly, well played AMD
Great comparison, appreciate the tech updates. Thumps up 👍
3070ti here, so this is huge! the colour on the fsr looked close to the native too, the dlss was a lot brighter. that maybe just settings i dont know for sure.
That could've just been a different time of day in the game.
It's like AMD are paying more attention to devalue Nvidia's latest generation, than they are making their own high performance, functioning hardware.
As some media such as Computerbase and PCGH report, the game uses a preliminary version of FSR3.1
The upscaling is still FSR 2.2. The only thing they have done is decouple the frame gen so other upscalers can be used. This was already possible via the mods so the devs were probably given the go ahead by AMD to do it for this game. I hope FSR3.1 is a fair bit better than the current version.
@@Dark-qx8rkThe graphics settings say dlss2+FSR FG, but the MOD actually replaces dlss2 with FSR.
I think that DLSS FG gives you around 165 FPS because some configuration either on your graphics card or some other program limits the FPS to 165 since I assume the refresh rate of your monitor is 165Hz, on the other hand, FSR 3 FG disables this FPS limitation and that's why it gives you more FPS. If you find and disable this FPS limitation, DLSS FG will also give you almost 200 FPS
He says later that his monitor is 120Hz not 165Hz
What we're likely seeing here is the reason _why_ DLSS FG isn't available on 30 series GPUs, as even the 40 series is struggling to generate frames at high frame rates.
See with FPS in games as the number of FPS increases, the *time between frames decreases.* What this means is that when your NVIDIA GPU is generating frames the algorithm it's using has _less_ time to generate the in between frames. The ML algorithm that's running is likely not tuned to generate frames when there's _tons_ of frame data already, so it's doing more work than is necessary to construct new frames. There's plenty of data it can pull from but it's taking _too long_ to generate a new frame and by the generated frame is created, the regular CUDA hardware has already finished rendering many, _many_ new frames ahead of it. Making the in between frame worthless as we're already well past that in between frame.
There's likely a fix for this, changing the way frame data is gathered and _when_ the in between frame is placed, but it could also be that the Tensor Cores in the 4070 just can't keep up with the CUDA cores _no matter what._ Frame smoothing technology has existed for _fucking forever,_ it's been in our TVs since the start of the past decade. Frame generation technology is quite similar, but we want less smear and more clarity and have the hardware to back such complex algorithms (There isn't a RTX 4070 in your TV exactly). So... AMD were pretty much already dealing with a _solved problem._ NVIDIA decided the best way to tackle this was to use deep learning. Well it turned out the deep learning approach didn't work out quite as well as it did with DLSS.
“An idiot admires complexity, a genius admires simplicity" -Terry A. Davis
Амд впервые удалось сделать в этой игре приличную сглажку фср, для конкуренции с известной длаа. Таа же мыло давно никто в расчет не берет. Однако болезни фср остались, это небольшой перешарп, как наждачная бумага и некоторая пиксельность волос и контуров огня. Так что рано автор видео стал списывать длсс. В хорошем количестве игр длсс сейчас длаа и "качество" с резкостью 50-70 показывает качество четче оригинала в 2к\4к и конечно с увеличением фпс. А генератор так и вообще у НВ более плавный, с низкой задержкой, а у Амд более лаговый.
I wouldn't mind if we got FSR FG on every game if it meant we actually got FG in every game. Even if I didn't _need_ it, it's still appreciated when playing on high refreshrate monitors. But don't make me use FSR upscaling, that shit looks terrible in motion, give me DLSS or give me nothing.
Tbh my only problem with the game, right now, is that sometimes the game doesn't look smooth at all when i lock the framerate at 60 with a perfectly flat frametime graph. I do that to almost all of my games because i'm still on a RTX 2060 Super and not having my gpu running at 90+% utilization makes it WAY quieter (also my case isn't that great either), but for some reason Ghost of Tsushima is the only game where sometimes the game feels laggy even though the frametime graphi is flat and the CPU is not even close to reach 100% utilization.
So, my first fix was to use fsr frame gen at 100hz (i have a 144hz monitor that i run at 120hz to make 60fps games look better), because locking the game fps through the driver couple with fsr frame gen would just freeze the game. They released a patch that fix that so i was locking the game at 60fps + fsr frame gen but the algorithm that runs the frame gen made my gpu hit 95+% utilization almost all the time BUT it gave me 120fps most of the time (and was dipping to minimum 105fps even in heavy scenes), so the gpu noises problem was back.
All of that text to say that the fsr frame gen algorithm is quite heavy on the gpu and for anyone with a "weak" gpu who want a smooth experience and lowering the gpu utilization, set the game to 100hz + fsr game gen (and vsync ofc). If you set the game to 60hz + fsr frame gen, the game will run at 30fps internally and it won't look smooth at all (at least in my opinion) AND the response time of the game will be atrocious.
the gpu side of tech has been quite the fireball innit, an evolving fireball, but a fireball regardless
Bro is British 🙏
ngl pretty rare to see a british person commenting
Very informative thanks for the video. I thought the upgrade was necessary.
I can see well the difference by slowing down to 25, FSR is definitely smoother then DSSL! Your effort you took to show us is incredible! Thanks for your work and information you sharing with us! Greetings from Austria 🇦🇹
Playing on an alienware aw3423dwf, oled 34 inch ultrawide monitor with hdr, a rtx 4070 super, the game looks gorgeous, i even forget i'm playing a game sometimes
I bought an rx 7800 xt to upgrade from my 3070. I was using dlss I’m most games but now I use fg (in the drivers) and it looks really good. It is sometimes blurry when it comes to texts but the rest is sharp. Couldn’t be happier.
Is Frame Generation inside AMD's drivers? Or are you maybe confusing it with Fluid Motion Frames? I'm asking because i have a 6650xt and I don't have Frame Gen in the drivers, so I have to use mods or 3rd party apps that utilize FSR3 frame gen.
I am having issues with the afmf... It's choppy AF and generally unusable. 6950 XT 4k144hz free sync monitor on display port cable. Any recommendations?
@@damos_k Yes I use fg in the drivers. I think it’s in beta and only available for 7000 series. I’m not sure though.
You downgraded from DLSS to AFMF and Couldn't be happier ? Something doesn't add up here. You know that thing doesn't even work during fast motion right ?
@@Lemmiou holy shit this is great news! I was hoping that happens because as Christopher says, Fluid motion frames is very unstable, when we all get driver level Frame Gen, Nvidia cards will be done 😂
What a sad state to rely on frame generation and upscaling to get smooth framerates these days.
Upscaling looks like ass compared to older games running with 4x msaa/ 2x ssaa,
Frame generation breaks with fast movement
Frame generation doesn't improve the input lag that you expect with actual higher framerates.
DLSS 3 + FSR3 FG best combo so go get a 4070Ti Super LoL
4070ti Super doesn't even exist. It's either 4070 or 4070 super
@@elitefaq914 wdym 4070ti super doesnt exist you have dementia ?
Impressive really, it makes me remember about freesync vs g-sync
I've seen that many games with FSR 3 they show like 30 or 60 additional frames than DLSS 3. But if you see a comparison between both in slow motion it looks like DLSS 3 is much much smoother than FSR 3. Not in this case since they look very similar
but who plays in slow mo
@@nicholasxamotainiumgilgamesh exactly
If you zoom in 200% you can see the difference in quality
Good to see AMD hasn't given up on catching up.
They are still keeping Nvidia on their toes. It doesn't matter how good your hardware is if the software sucks
Everyone should try lossless scaling frame generation.
Works on every video card and every game. It's surprised me how good it is now.
Bought it 2 days ago, ngl this software is black magic. As long as my frames are above 40 to 50 it works really well, cant wait for further development to be made
From the comparison videos I've seen on TH-cam it's much worse than FSR or DLSS FG.
I’ve a 3070ti and I’m so grateful to AMD that I’m getting the 7900xtx nitro+ for my next build
May you made this comparison where you use frame gen from a lower framrate
Tested this out myself. FSR FG does indeed give you tons more FPS compared to DLSS FG in Ghost of Tsushima. Looks the same too. Highly recommended; thanks vex!
6:55 DLSS has a smudgy blur to it, always had. even with the sharpening applied. it improved version by version but in essence it is there still.
While I love AMD for creating FSR to give life to a lot of older cards, I generally don't use it because it makes the graphics blurrier. I'd rather get 60FPS with clear imagery, rather than 120FPS and have textures become blurry.
I have AMD 7800X3D and RX7800 XT and game keeps crashing with some graphics bug even with most recent drivers. I tried all combinations of graphics setting, TAA, FSR and framegen on/off. Still keeps crashing. I read some forums and other people has this problem as well even with nvidia gpus. I hope they patch the game soon, because it is a really good title I want to play. But not now.
Few hotfixes later and my crashes still occurs. Developers are preparing some larger patch.
@@monsterboomer8051 One Thing with AMD i have noticed before on DX version based game at least for my system is that they tend to crash when not installed on C drive(window drive). I have some vulkan based title and they run normally on D or other drive just DX game only. My system is 5900x and 6700xt.
Disable expo in bios
That help me with game crashing
Can you tell me your motherboard model?
I bought a Quadro RTX 4000 for DLSS 2.4. I can just get FSR 3 frame gen outright? Sick, this Windows 8.1 workstation will be a beast... Well, no. It won't Steam removed Windows 7 and 8 a few months ago. Minecraft Dungeons won't have these features, I'm so done with Crossout... GOG purchases maybe? I wonder what's on there. I'll let Linux keep Steam working for the next decade while Google tells Steam to remove Windows 10 for no reason.
if your horse is not named sora, thats a huge L vex
Kage better
Kage
Kage the best
Mine is Kage which is on the black horse
If we are at the point of slowing things down, zooming in pixel to pixel, I think FSR FG is a winner here lol. We're playing a game, not looking at photoshop, so yeah. High motion gaming, I'm not going to be able to tell. Props to AMD, shame on Nvidia trying to make their proprietary tech for 40-series cards only. Both AMD and Intel are laughing at NVIDIA with FG and Supersampling lol.
Me who just bought an AMD card when everyone else has asked me to get Nvidia for the past month: 😁
Thank you for your awesome content.
Please make a video about lossless scaling! 🎉
dude this is just stupid nvidia sucks, my next pc is gonna be only amd
You really shouldn't care just check which one is better for you I got a 7800xt and 7700x because there is no reason for me to get 4070 but if there was a better option from Nvidia back then I would've got it you're the winner if there are multiple choices.
its just the 40 series really. Blackwell should be alright.
yea theyve gotten so greedy. the 40 series is such a cashgrab only maybe the 4070 is decent. the 4080 is just market illusion to make u save a bit more to get the 4090. really scummy
I just hope nvidia doesn’t get greedy. 10 series was amazing value, 20 series was alright just new tech that nobody really used, 30 series was great value (but u couldn’t even find it at msrp) and then 40 series is just dog crap value and performance. 50 series has to be good value
@@pravnav "50 series has to be good value" is gonna age terribly probably considering its NVIDIA and looking at their previous price increases, with people still buying no matter what, they think they can take more.
Dlss is really intended for 4k resolution, performance gains while using lower resolutions are somewhat negligible. Try switching to 4k with resolution scaling and frame generation and see what kind of fps you get
The thumbnail is misleading. This video is misleading, using one game that's an outlier is nasty work. The rest of the video I have no problem with.
8:44 this isn't screen tearing, fsr 3 doesn't generate frames where the interface of the game is
This game is super optimized, kudos to the devs. My system is a Xeon E3-1280 v3, 16gb ddr3 and RTX 3050 6gb (yes the one and only) and this game is giving me 90 to more than 100fps using DLSS quality + FSR FG @1080p high settings.
The problem with this test is that you're comparing 1440p footage. 50% 1440p is basically 1080p, which is already full high definition. step the output to 1080p and 50% scale should be 764p, from there you should definitely be able to see what Nvidia and AMD are doing respectively. 10:09 oh BROTHER, WHEN WILL PEOPLE LEARN?! 25%=720p, 50%=1018p
Nice with Ghost of Tsushima and Minecraft music in the background ;)
FYI. If you use AMD graphic cards, you could enable AMD FSR and Frame Generation literally on EVERY games! even for every game that doesn't any upscaling or frame generation feature.
I've tested it using 6650XT on Monster hunter world and Code vein with 2K ultrawide monitor and medium-high graphic settings. It surprisingly works really well to push the famerates into 110-150 fps. AMD is insane
DLSS is consistently smoother than FRS. It's not marginal, it stands out any time you pan around. So, bottom line, give me a break. FSR is over rated here.
I was about to say, it's been well documented that AMD's frame gen in this game introduces disparity in frame pacing. The title is silly and I was dumb for clicking it.
Amd letting other cards use fsr3 FG is a good move because now developers have reason to put in on games because now more than 70% of players can use it but in DLSS3 FG only 10% at most can use it it alse applys to amd if thay locked FG to only amd gpus.
So now we can say fsr3 FG is bigger market share than DLSS upscaler it make sense for devs to use it in new titles and maybe thay add it to some older games too.
And there is the catch:
What if that non sense flow accelator is not usable for other tasks???
You pay Nvidia to put useless silicone to your gpu.
I Hope its not true but it could be.
at 6:45 you see DLSS discards nearby flying particles (behind the back) while FSR keeps them but doesn't seem to add good frames so it looks a bit chopier but closer to the original.
this locked me into amd CPUs forever fsr3 is also in sons of the forest and man am i hooked
Whatever the method is, the ideal is to have framegen at the rendering levels so it's applying to the 3D rendered stuff only. Framegen doesn't know what's 3D and what's a 2D UI element. It can do weird things to 2D UI overlays.
Another major difference is having access to motion vectors. That's the rendering side making "keyframe" style data about the directions of motion in an image. Like with video compression, except per frame. This allows the framegen to very accurately create those in-between frames, where fast and complex movement might trip up regular optical flow framegen that doesn't have access to the rendering pipeline.
The real ideal would be if the developers were all using an API that gave the GPU/CPU access to the depth maps and motion vectors etc all separately and cleanly so anything could hook into it.
To my surprise the disocclusion on the flask was even better on FSR than DLSS which was quite artefacty. Also the chopping we saw later is due tu how FSR FG handle UI: as a zone excluded from FG. We can see quite easily the virtual rectangle that is choppy whereas just above and below it is smooth.
4060ti user here. DLSS + FG is my way to go. Never got any problems or artifacts when i play. It's really a good feature to be honest. As long as you're using a high refresh rate monitor, you're gonna have no problem at all.
Highly recommend testing system latency or "click to shoot" latency in some way. Previous tests show a generally worse input latency with fsr3 than dlssfg. Most tests i saw were a fair bit higher where a 4090 would be at 45ms total latency vs 60ms total latency with fsr3.
I use it for frame gen dlss mod on my 3080. And I am quite happy with the result. I have played Cyberpunk, Alan Wake 2, and Forspoken. Currently, I am playing Hellblade 2 with this mod. Getting fps over 100 in high settings at 1440p is phenomenal. With that anyone can use 30 series card for even longer times and get good fps in games.
I’m sorry but this is extremely disingenuous.
You only look at FPS number and not the quality of the frames or the frame time variance.
Can they implement fsr 3 frame gen with other games like cyberpunk while having rtx 3080 dlss
I've got the same result while changing settings in Deep Rock Galactic and thought like: “This can't be happening” but now that's real for sure.
As an AMD user,i use FSR3 frame gen AND Lossless Scaling LS1 upscaler, its better than FSR similar to DLSS. LS1 also looks good with TAA, you can also use Lossless Frame gen on top but the latency is noticeable at this point.
Wanna know something crazy?... XeSS and TSR are both really good rn, I was playing The First Descendant Final Technical test a couple of days ago, and I noticed the two I mentioned might increase a bit of latency, but the fact is if you select the right performance optimization level for your GPU and CPU, it got a lot better looking quality than the FSR at similar levels of Optimization...
If you want pure FPS increase though, FSR is still best in my experience... Especially for a 1600 series gpu users like...
The thing is that AMD is only a frame interpolation, on nvidia DG is on the gane engine and calculates movement vectors and has less input lag
This is neat. I wonder if there’s higher lag with FSR FG. I’m sure there would be since there’s more frames. I just really love DLSS in terms of upscaling and the FG tech is irrelevant to me. So if devs continue decoupling the FG tech then it’s a win for 30 series owners. That said I’m glad I went from my 3060 laptop to my 4080 PC, the additional smoothness from FG really helps with getting 100+ frames on Wukong while looking pristine on my 4K TV. Having Upscaling and Frame Gen separate isn’t a trend yet but I hope it becomes one because then my GPU will have a longer shelf life
I'm on a 1080 Ti at 1440p, max settings, using XeSS Quality along with AMD FG, and I'm getting around 80-100 FPS. All of these settings combinations are giving more life to Pascal. God bless AMD and Intel. lol
I've been trying it out on Starfield and kind of loving FSR3 and Frame Gen. I've noticed very subtle ghosting in very specific scenarios, but it is a surprisingly mature product from AMD who, even though I am a fan doesn't have a great track record with new technologies at launch. My main concern was ofc latency but I'mma be honest I don't feel it, and this is coming from a speedrunner in various games, so I am... defo sensitive to it.
Ghost is on the bucket list
What a wild combo of background music. minecraft, risk of rain.... :D
Just tried this on my own 4070, and i got to say FSR even feels way smoother when it comes to latency which is probably the major reason i prefer to not use FG if i dont need to.
I think the tearing might be from the transparent HUD element drawn over the scene.
Welp, just bought a new pc, oh well its a considerable upgrade and is very satisfying regardless.
But yea hopefully this will be implemented well. On my old PC Grayzone Warfare allowed non AMD users to use their AmD framegen. Which brought it to about 80 fps on a 3070ti 10700k. However the input lag was so bad that it felt extremely sluggish, yet looked smooth. Also it gave my pc instability, crashed quite a few times. I ended up playing with just standard DLSS on medium settings and the aiming felt a lot snappier and quick, albeit at a slide show at like 40 fps.
Glad to hear its better implennted in this game. I think maybe in Grayzone it just added too many frames on such a shaky foundation. Like you want framegen to go from 110 to 140, not 40 to 80
Hey Vex, theres a Frame gen mod that works in pretty much every game (except multiplayer ones for anti-cheat problems) which enables DLSS Frame Gen for all RTX cards. I used it on MSFS 2020 on both my RTX 3050 and RTX 2060S and it worked flawlessly.
Are you referring to lossless scaling? If so that works with multi-player games
@@Crazy09starkillor No, its a frame gen enabler mod. Literally. You drag and drop some files in the game directory, and you also disable nvidia signature check, and then you will find frame gen available for use.
@@Covid-bv4hp Do you mean the DLSS to FSR mod?
I've been using Driver level frame generation even for GTA 5 when playing online with my 7900XTX at 4k ultrawide (3840x1600). It chops my gpu usage to half and no more framerate dips. I must say Frame generation has come forward a lot, if I can just use it on any game to get to that 4k +120fps and not really notice a big difference in gameplay.
Hi, to enable vsync with nvidia FG you need to enable the vsync via NVDIA app for the game or global, it works perferctly.
Vex you're so cool thanks for the video 👍
Very educational
Bro!! Plz plz plz make a same topic video but on BLACK MYTH: WUKONG let’s see FSR VS DLSS FRAME GENERATION side by side also DLSS WITH AMD FRAME GENERATION MOD which one is best, plz plz I request to you..🙏🙏🙏🙏
The amount of misinformation on this one video is astonishing. People just take information and go with it don't they. Vex, you're not even close to being 1% truthful here. The fact that your FPS counters are different in sheer FPS is based on how the frames are being generated. DLSS is not obsolete..... You haven't discovered anything new, nor is FSR 3.0 or 3.1 revolutionary.
Where you are even more disingenuous is where you pretend that comparing the two is pointless since they're almost identical. Albeit you said that DLSS is "smoother maybe". Hillarious. Also the clips you chose for the showcase. You dawg, you think everyone's a lamb don't you.
Please use trustworthy content creators and factual truths. Ask for frame times as a minimum. Look into HOW the frames are being generated and why "Frame generation" or should I say frame interpolation, has these two vastly different methods, and what's actually different about them. The internet is full of people like you Vex. And this is why a good product, or a good software solution, is never the most successful one.
This is exactly why frame gen and upscaling even are the norm. Sheeps think it looks as good as native because someone told them it does
@@ZenTunE- DLSS Quality does look as good as native, Id say.
@@Scythical What do you consider native? TAA? In badly implement cases it can be. Like red dead 2, the TAA is so bad that DLSS does edge it out. But if you're already using DLSS, might as well compare it to DLAA. Which is the same exact thing minus the upscaling.
And at that point it's "an estimate of where pixels should be" vs "real knowledge of where they are". Obviously knowledge will be better than a guess. Guesses are rarely correct 100% of the time. If it looked the same, with that logic dlss balanced should also look the same. And performance. But they don't, every time you add more upscaling the image gets blurrier since the AI can't create those sharp native details. DLSS does not look broken or wrong in any way, but it always leads to a lower perceived resolution in the final image, more blurrier. Compared to 100% rendering resolution.
So my point in the end is that DLAA and DLSS Quality do not look the same, I can tell the difference immediately on a 1440p monitor. (The Last of Us, Uncharted, God of War, Sons of the Forest, Deathloop, Horizon FD&FW, Alan Wake 2, The Casting of Frank stone. In all of these games and more I've seen it in action and noticed the loss of clarity with DLSS enabled and set to Quality.)
If you can't see the difference, there is something you're missing. Because it is there. I'm fine with people not minding it, but saying they look identical or as good is a false statement.
I am hoping FSR 3.1 will be game changing! SO excited to see it, and I hope it is in cyberpunk very very very soon.
I'll add a point which I noticed while playing ghost of tsusima,
On my 4050 laptop using dlss quality and DLSS FG static texts and items on screen and the lower portion of the screen where grass is present will cause weird ghosting issue when I turn around fast as if someone is smudging an oil paint, which is NON existent on FSR3.0
my cat blocks my monitor about 20 times out of the day. love her tho. nice video!