It does feel lately that Sonic Team has kinda lost their fear of 06 and the stuff that came with it. And that's good. 06's reputation hung over the entire franchise for way too long and it's good that they don't seem to be afraid to admit that 06 and Shadow existed. Mind you it seems they moved towards being terrified to mention Infinite existing but hey...progress
I'm not too sure the "fear of 06" was ever holding them back from doing things. We still got the boost formula which they iterated on for a couple of years until randomly losing the plot with whatever the hell Lost World was trying to do. They attempted a "serious" plot again with Forces and that fell flat on its face embarrassingly, but this has nothing to do with being afraid to mention 06. They were just stumbling for years trying to do something that sorta worked again and we got that with Frontiers. 06 and the other dark age stuff are only being mentioned in terms of nostalgia bait. I think they'll actually lose that fear when (or if) they try doing something new with the concepts and characters those failures brought.
@@Kingdom850 I mean, that’s the point of this game. It’s building upon the events of shadow 05. Also, Forces was also nostalgia bait. The difference between that game and this one is that here it feels actually meaningfull to shadows character.
@@Frank-zb7zh I am convinced Classic Sonic was a last minute addition in Forces Planning Phase, and because of which... they decided to throw in Green Hill and Chemical Plant. I think "Sonicguru" said it best, "They tried to go back to what made the games "good" again." Lost World was worse with the nostalgia, tbh.
@@Frank-zb7zhDoes it really build on sth when there is no level rep? Black doom and the doom powers are gone when the story ends and the biggest plot points revealed correlate with sa2 more than sth.
@11:35 And this, ladies and gentlemen, is WHY he is known as the Great Clement-zero lines, no waiting, just quick and effective with the killshot to Gareth's statement. *Chef Kiss*
Til I'm told otherwise, I'm headcanoning Eggman's dad's name as Julian Robotnik (hard-core Sonic fans who get this reference, give yourselves a pat on the back)
20:31 They don’t miss Yandere Amy, John. What they DO miss is the bubbly energetic girl she used to be. By making her more “mature” they’ve inadvertently neutered not just one of the most distinct dynamics in the franchise (being the “chaser and the chased” with Sonic) but also a lot of her core personality, and they didn’t really replace it with anything of substance. Now she’s just kinda blandly nice with everyone. And also tarot cards, because that was a thing in an old manual. Frankly I’m starting to fear that Tails might be suffering from this as well, mainly due to how most of his dialogue in recent stuff is just him being an exposition machine and technobabble.
Why do you think Tails is only acting like that "now"...? That has been the general problem with him since Heroes, maybe not the techno-speak...but exposition is pretty much all he ever said for a long while.
I'm so glad somebody else said it. Amy, in many ways was much like Sonic, they both knew exactly who they were and what they wanted and would go out of their way to do what they thought was right. I miss the aggressively flamboyant, and passionate Amy who wore her heart on her sleeve. My problem with her character now days is that she doesn't feel like a more mature Amy, she seems like an entirely different person that we call Amy Rose.
@ It may mainly be due to how Ian Flynn just writes dialogue making it much less tolerable, but at least up until Colors Tails still did have some semblance of youthful innocence to him that made him endearing. It’s slowly been whittled away ever since then, and playing through Frontiers was what set the alarm off for me.
Amy is still "bubbly", the fandom just has a big problem that if a character isn't doing this specific thing in every scene their personality is "changed." Frontiers had literally everyone become more serious and that was even explained by the game's literal atmosphere. The Murder of Sonic, IDW, Prime, etc. have Amy as the same. And it's insane to complain about tarot cards being used in ONE game but act like Amy doing something slightly different means the character is dead or something. "a thing in an old manual" it was literally the reason why she was IN SONIC CD. The HAMMER was from a spin-off fighting game. Should they phase that out too? Or is it only okay to do the same thing over and over if it's from Sonic Adventure specifically?
@@PhantomOfTheKnight Okay, I'm a bit conflicted here, so bear with me: Just going off of CD and the first two Adventure games (so before her character exaggeration came into play), calling the Amy andSonic chaser/chased dynamic the _most_ distinct in the franchise is... kind of pushing it. The most they really did with it was having there be one obligatory moment per Adventure game, and then afterwards Sonic and Amy more or less work together just fine without it being a big part of their dynamic. And in all three games-especially CD-Sonic _does_ save Amy, so from the start it being a subversion of the typical male/female protagonist relationship of the time was _very_ downplayed (as much as I do like that comparison). _But._ What I _will_ agree with, is that going forward they _need_ to bring back Amy's more energetic, quirky side. Frontiers I'll call the one free pass, as the scenario didn't really give Amy many opportunities to show that part of her character anyway. But for me, the _real_ distinct part of Amy's character is her bubbly attitude, coupled with her "all-loving hero" traits and strong loyalty to her friends, and how she can still kick ass while staying true to those traits (I'd actually say _Superstars_ is the best example of that we've seen thus far). And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd _object_ to getting a couple more moments where we see that Amy still clearly has a crush on Sonic; that has undeniably been part of her character from the start, and it's endearing when done well. But with her Adventures arc literally being her decided to _earn_ Sonic's respect, I'd rather we finally see Amy get fleshed out without requiring her most prominent character trait to outright revert back to "chase the hedgeheg until marriage."
Wait that’s where it’s from? I have been seeing Amy has weighted wrist bands going around a lot the last few years but could never find an official source. I thought it was just a really popular headcanon from outta nowhere.
As someone whose favorite Sonic character has always been Amy, I don't miss "yandere" Amy. I miss the energetic, happy-go-lucky girl who wore her heart on her sleeve. The kind-hearted girl who would go out of her way to help others, but could also be a bit short-sighted and short-tempered. Nowadays, it feels like they want to turn Amy into the "Mom Friend." No shade to those types of characters, I love Katara from ATLA. However, that's not who Amy Rose is. Yes, she's the heart of the team, but that doesn't mean she's always going to be the level-headed one that has to "keep the boys in line". If anything, she's just as capable of making rash decisions as say Sonic. Also, the whole "yandere Amy" thing is something I feel is blown way out of proportion. If you really pay attention to the games, I find that Amy's "yandere traits" aren't NEARLY as prevalent as many like to act like they are. Other than Sonic Battle and Free Riders, I don't think Amy's badly written in any of the "Pre-Colors Era" games. Even in instances like Heroes' "marry me" line, or that part in Rush where Amy gets angry that another girl (Blaze) wants to find Sonic, it's not that bad in the context of the whole game. What, I'm supposed to take these single, less-than-favorable moments and completely write off Amy's character as a whole in those games because of it? That seems both unfair, as well as incredibly shallow. Like sure, let's just completely undermine Amy's role as the leader of Team Rose in Heroes and how she encourages them to not to give up and to keep moving forward to save Froggy and Chocola, as well as ignore how witnessing Amy's general personality and demeanor gives a Blaze a moment of introspection on her own sense of character. That's fine. That's fair, right? I could honestly go on for a lot longer, but this comment is long enough as it is, and I'm not even sure how many people are going to read. My point is, people really need to move past the ideas that "Amy was so bad before," and "Modern Amy is so much better," and "Boom Amy is the best version of Amy" because I feel like these ideas stem from an unfair and exaggerated view on her character. Amy had a lot going for her already, that many people overlooked simply because they thought she was only obsessed with Sonic, which again is very unfair. I'm not saying Modern Amy is bad, I still love her. However, I hate the idea that her character has to be morphed and contorted into something that is more "acceptable" to an audience that has been unfair to her for years.
Fun fact about Gerald's journal in game. You CAN read the excerpts of the journal by pushing a button (I forget which, but the game literally tells you what button you can push) that shows the text version of the cursive. Unfortunately for me, I figured that well after I struggled reading all of his entries in cursive. So you don't need to go to the wiki for that~
Haven’t dived into the journal yet but what I’ve seen has been a big tough (it prob doesn’t help that it’s probably the American form of “cursive” where the letter sometimes barely resemble their true forms unlike British “joined up writing” where it’s mostly normal letters connected lol)
if you talk to gerald in the overworld he does actually acknowledge "So youve seen places you dont recognize? Perhaps youre being shown places from your future as well" although it still doesnt explain chaos island (unless hes in frontiers 2 or some shit)
As much as I would have loved an Infinite fight, it doesn't make sense story-wise. Not only has Shadow not met him, but it would just not make much sense. Mephiles makes sense because the Time Eater pulls him from a timeline that doesn't exist, and Shadow not remembering him is because '06's events were rendered non-canon. Mephiles is desperately wanting to exist again, and Shadow just kicks his ass to move on, not caring that this creature that tried to kill him and that he doesn't know is gone
Honestly I’m surprised Kingdom Valley wasn’t the 06 level in Generations given it was the star level of that game, it’s on the box art, it was the E3 & XBLA demo, it was all over the marketing.
The fans voted what levels they wanted in Generations. That's why we had 4 city levels in the game. I feel they would've picked Kingdom Valley in the original otherwise.
For Sonic Crisis City was better, been the star level mean nothing, if that was the case why is Chemical Plant the second level? For Sonic classic and modern Crisis City is better, for Shadow is Kingdom Valley.
20:20 Sonic Boom Amy is the best Amy. She has a crush on Sonic and she acts like it, but it's not portrayed annoyingly and she has other pieces to her character.
@samu1414 Boom Amy is portrayed as hiding her crush towards Sonic and while that does work for Boom Amy, Canon Amy's personality is perfectly represented by the very weapon she wields. Basically, it's not in her nature to be shy or demure. Canon Amy's the type to get in someone's face and tell them exactly how she feels, and with confidence to boot.
A character not being annoying to you does not make them better , like I don’t care about charmy but I perfected when he actually has a loud personality now he’s just excited boy , you didn’t even mention what makes boom Amy the best Amy just her crush on sonic 😂, everyone who always says that never actually what makes her good
I guess I didn't define it but the problem with Amy isn't that she's annoying, it's that she's one-note. Boom Amy feels like a character; she has her own routine lifestyle, she adds her own unique takes on the conversation the five have, she has solutions to problems the others don't always see. Classic Amy hardly does anything on her own, she just responds to situations she's put in but doesn't pursue anything besides the one-note love for Sonic. I don't really see how it would be hard not to see pre- Lost World Amy (although ever since 06 they were toning her down already) as an uninteresting character with no motivation. I think they've gone too far though and Amy's fortune card thing just feels tacked on because they needed something for her to... have a defining characteristic about? I don't know, point is in mainline games she's never been a good character.
@@samu1414 superstars and idw classic Amy don’t exist , Amy is littery the one who helps trip by herself 💀 , Amy has other things then just loving sonic you know
@@samu1414 Amy not being annoying doesn’t make her a good character, 💀 2000s Amy had way more to her than boom and current game Amy good and bad , she was a bubbly energetic gogeter , who stands by her own beliefs and can be very ignorant , you really didn’t describe anything about boom Amy lmao
Okay I literally just played the original Biolizard fight the other day (side note but that boss sucks ass and this version is so much better to play) and I think I'm stupid because I didn't notice the lyrics at all?? Granted I wasn't playing with headphones on and the speaker in my monitor sounds like ass but still I might be deaf.
@@Aisubun It has lyrics, its just that you can't understand them because it sounds like they are singing underwater. If you want to know the lyrics, listen to the 3DS version of generations. That song is actually understandable. the Sonic Forces variant is also an option.
I do wonder why the Supporting Me vocals were missing in the game considering they were in the trailer. Otherwise the remix is hands down the best since SA2, might even be on par with it. It’s cool too since it’s changed from the sort of techno rave music that usually signified Shadow in SA2 to metal like his solo game and later appearances. Also I adore Kingdom Valley in this game. It’s so much fun, it looks great, the music is awesome, and I love how they use Chaos Control and Doom Surf. Also I like how this game has all the regular bipedal Eggman robots and the GUN robots. It’s interesting to see how different that enemy type looks from game to game. Makes me wish they could reference cartoon stuff and throw the Swat Bots in from SATAM.
fun fact: biolizard has a confirmed birthday, in the report that rouge brings up in sa2, it's listed as january 27. also, interestingly, the gerald journals in this game confirm that biolizard is in fact a genetically modified salamander, which is kinda weird because for years, i kinda thought he was a genetically modified monitor lizard, because in the report that rouge brings up in sa2, biolizard's initial body length is listed as 2.7 meters, which is somewhat accurate to most monitor lizards.
IDW Amy seems liek the perfect balance and what Clement is talking abotu at the end, they didn't completely erase that part of her character, and acknowledge she used to be like that , but show that she matured a bit more and is abel to fned for herself and sty focused when sonic is around
Regarding the whole Amy characterization drama, i definitely prefer how she’s portrayed now than she was in the 2000s. But I won’t lie and say that there a few things I missed about her old character. Not necessarily her obsession over Sonic, but more so her determination to get what she wants. Like in Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, there was a cutscene where Storm gets in Amy’s way and separates her from Sonic and the group. But she doesn’t plead for Storm to move, she just wacks him with her hammer to get him out of way. Honestly, I think a perfect mixup of Amy’s modern portrayal with her old determination would please both crowds, but that’s just me.
Apparently in japaness, shadow is still a jackass to the biolizard I think emerl in dark beginnings is mainly shown because of the fact that it's one of the only elements of the ark's backstory that doesn't involve shadow being born or maria being killed aside the artificial chaos breakout and that's not nearly as entertaining, so they went with having a small clip of shadow's life on the ark to show off
14:50 Gerald has several pages in this game's journal dedicated to his discovery of the Gizoid and submitting it to the government so that GUN would get off his back about not producing a new weapon
Funny enough though if you keep reading more into the journal, we find out that it eventually led to the Gizoid attacking the ARK which caused the Artificial Chaos to go rogue in their programming and caused so much damage that they had to call in GUN. So in other words, the Gizoid attack was what caused the eventual GUN Raid.
10:00 I agree with this. A very important part of the Sonic franchise is that it has to have confidence that it's the coolest thing ever, regardless of whether or not it actually is. This is why Forces feels so hollow, it clearly lacks all confidence in itself and goes for the safest (and lamest) route possible. 06 had that confidence, which is why people find more salvageable from it than Forces, a game which reviewed better.
It’s clear Sega & Sonic Team are done ignoring games like Shadow the Hedgehog & 06, they acknowledge they were embarrassments, but let’s stop trying to pretend they didn’t happen, embrace them for what they are & make better uses of them, bring back Black Doom, bring back Kingdom Valley & make them good.
I doubt getting over 06 was why they brought back Kingdom Valley for this game. If that were the case, then Sega technically got over 06 when they used Crisis City in the original Generations release.
The Japanese version of the Biolizard Boss FIght keeps Shadow in character with how he was in SA2. He continuously berates the Biolizard without even a hint of sympathy or pity. There's also differences in dialogue in the Mephiles boss fight between English and Japanese that give a very different impression of Mephiles' defeat. Of all his powers, I wish Shadow had kept Doom Spear, Doom Blast and Doom Surf. What people don't want, is for Frontiers Amy to be the norm and for her crush on Sonic to be pushed to the wayside because its a central part of her character to be passionate about things that matter to her. Battle wasn't the best representation of that, but if the alterative is writing like Frontiers where she really is as her most "mature" (bland) then I'd honestly take Battle. Amy is at her best when she can act selfish, have a temper and be a bit unhinged because its a source of humor and emblematic of her general passionate personality. She can and should have flaws that aren't entirely palatable for everyone.
From what I understand, Mephiles in this game is truer to the Japanese version of 06, where he was a lot more theatrical and over the top compared to the more cold mocking character the English version had But it does work with the idea that Mephiles has been sealed away in a void, aware the entire time and just going crazy because of it. He's even more unhinged and he doesn't even bother trying to hide it
@@Mobysimo I personally think the Japanese script portrays his new unhinged character in a way that doesn't feel at odds with who he was in 06. He's clearly more deranged where as in English he just sounds desperate.
That's SEGA's huge glaring flaw with the new characterization of the cast. For some reason everyone has to be bland and static to one general personality trait, not allowed to have some dimension to their character.
Shadow will talk to Gerald about seeing areas he does not remember sometime around Kingdom valley and Chaos island so it is brought up but not in a cutscene
I mean, this is the guy who, in the Hero Path of Shadow The Hedgehog, upon seeing an emerald, said “This is like taking candy from a baby, which is fine by me!”, without a hint of remorse. I’m not surprised that Shadow killed unborn babies.
I doubt their fertilized eggs. I mean, this thing doesn't have eyes anymore and needs a giant-ass device to properly breathe. If Gerald screwed it that much, I'm pretty sure he managed to take away it's ability to give birth
The choice isn't between yandere Amy and the current Amy who doesn't have any feelings for Sonic at all. You can have her still have a crush on Sonic without it being ridiculously overbearing like it was in Heroes or Battle. Her arc in SA1 wasn't "I'm over my crush on Sonic now", it was "I'm not going to keep chasing Sonic, I'm going to become someone that _he'll_ want to chase." And SA2 stuck by that. She makes one comment about wanting him to marry her in the entire game, and it was clearly a joke. She still had her crush, but she wasn't obsessive about it anymore. She was very well-written in SA1 and 2, and she was allowed to have one of her two defining character traits. It's like these days they're too afraid to give her her crush on Sonic either because some people found it annoying, or because it's less accepted now to have the main female character in love with the male lead. But if we can recognize that it's good that SEGA is no longer afraid of 06 and its legacy, why can't we acknowledge that they also shouldn't be afraid of Amy's legacy? It was one of her two most defining traits and it was just dropped with no fanfare. We shouldn't have to choose between two extremes. She can have her crush on Sonic without it being cringey, annoying, or awkward. If they want to give her an arc where she accepts that Sonic will never love her back, by all means, but A, they never did that, and B, that doesn't mean she has to _stop_ loving him.
I'm going to go to bat for Heroes and say that it as 1 very bad moment with Amy for sure, but she's on the up and up for the rest of that game's writing of her as a Team Leader aiming to beat Eggman both for wronging her friends and prove she's Sonic's equal. Tone down the Grand Metropolis moment (make the fight about "Sonic" having Froggy and Chocola in the Newspaper) and I'd flat out say it's the standard to hold her characterization to.
20:25 I like to headcanon that Big The Cat was nowhere near Sonic's birthday party when the Time Eater kidnapped everyone. He just walked into this endless white void after the fact.
After hearing Gareth’s response to Ted right before the video ended, I couldn’t help but make this reference. “I hear you’re a racist now, father!” - Gareth, probably
15:37 no emeral in this game shocked me, but I did call that he would just be in the first episode of dark beginnings and nothing else still cool he appeared in anything new
After recently watching the SA2 Real Time Fandub again, I'm hear the Biolizard going, "Brother! I need you to stop trying to hit me! Brother! You've reset my voice module button! Brother! AAAAAAAAAAAA! I gave birth."
I love how the Biolizard battle starts off exactly the same as the OG fight in SA2, and then it gets the freaky tentacle arms and the fight becomes way more dynamic!
Small correction: Geralds journal in directly mentions Emerel multiple times. Gerald even sent him to the government to placate them as they pushed him to provide results for Project Shadow. In doing this, Emeril grew much more capable at combat and began the rampage on the Ark. This in turn stirred up the artificial chaos that got more researchers hurt, and led to the raid by GUN.
8:31 "i'm surprised they bothered" this was like the second most requested sonic 06 level for generations iirc, not to mention the level used the most in 06's press tour and where shadow first met mephiles
Initially I was upset that Emerl wasnt a boss fight but after finishing the game and Charii's video him explaining that each boss fight reflects a different messed up aspect of Shadow made a lot more. Also they stayed consistent with the biblical parallels these villains have.
The vocals on the original Supporting Me are so low in the mix the isolated track probably didn't vibe well with this newer version. Also Supporting Me is a sleeper for best song in the franchise. The fact that it's not a main theme but everyone knows it by name says it all
a small thing i love about shadow generations is whenever you go through those chaos control rail things, it actually makes the exact sound as going through those rails in digital circuit in shadow the hedgehog, i like those small details regarding kingdom valley, i knew it was in the game but i stayed away from any footage as best i could, and i'm so happy i did, i popped off when i got to the mach speed section
I think the Amy discourse is about extremes. I want a middleground personally, because the current version of Amy is kind of boring. I liked her having a temper and more energy. She may have had a lot of annoying moments back then but it was more memorable than how she is done nowadays. No yandere Amy though... That's... No...
While Shadow the Hedgehog and especially 06 aren’t really considered good, I’m glad they don’t pretend like they didn’t happen. Bringing back some things and improving them is cool. With the whole Amy discourse, I was mostly indifferent to Amy’s character, didn't really have a problem with it and kinda thought the hate she got was overblown.
That was also a decade ago, I think he's grown numb towards the attempts at storytelling nowadays or finally wisened up from his 2D Sonic biases, which is which? Honestly don't care personally but I do like how Johnny speaks of the stories from older games with a bit more fondness.
@@andrewstokes6623 I think it's more that he wants to see what can be done with those stories he didn't like now that SEGA's making a serious effort with respecting Sonic continuity. Besides, Johnny's issues with those stories wasn't that they were too serious, but that they were clumsy executions of that serious tone. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I'm also biased towards those games' narratives. Point is, absence makes the heart grow fonder, so let's see what we can make out of these stories from the Adventure-Black Knight era now that Flynn's handling the writing.
@@smashmaster521 in his sonic 06 review he says that it's a series about a blue hedgehog and a fox with two tails and how the series taking itself seriously is crazy.
@@anythinginazuma7641 as someone who believes he still believes that to an extent, his old sonic reviews are not the be all on johnny's opinions now that follow through on consensus nowadays
@@anythinginazuma7641i ghknk the reason is because 06 narrative is so lost that forgets to also have fun or funny moments and the characterization is also pretty poor (and it wasn't even great to begin with). Combine that with all the plot wholes, confusing motivations and you get terrible writing
A couple pages of Gerald's Journal in this game talk about the Gizoid and there's even pictures. Also, in White Space, if you talk to Gerald after beating Sunset Heights he straight up says it's possible that they're places Shadow hasn't visited yet. The connection to Chaos Island is still not really there unless they make Shadow go there in a future game.
Actually if you talk to Gerald at certain points in white space Shadow will mention going through somewhere he's never been before so they actually do acknowledge that Shadow wouldn't know Chaos Island.
0:54 Fun fact. You don't even need to dodge these. You can seriously just stand to the side, and the Biolizard will just keep spitting in the same direction until it gets tired.
To me the whole Amy discourse thing, it's one thing to change her character in a future release (i.e. Sonic Frontiers). It's another thing to retcon a previous game during its remastering and pretending like the past didn't happen at all.
I love what they’ve done with the Biolizard fight. Such a huge glow up compared to the original. I love how grotesque & intimidating they made the Biolizard look in this game.
So something I really like about the level choices in this game is that they’re all key moments of Shadow’s life and journey as a character. The ARK is where he was born and was his home, starting us off on his journey. Rail Canyon is where he first found out about the Shadow Androids after his amnesia stint in Heroes and began to have self doubts about who he is. Kingdom Valley takes place in a point in his life (granted now erased from the timeline) where he fully realized who he is and left the past behind him, while also being the first place where he meets Mephiles. Even Sunset Heights for being seemingly random is a result of Shadow doing the right thing and kicking Infinite’s shit in. As for Chaos Island hell if I know it represents Shadow’s need to take a fuckin vacation to Hawaii or somethin.
I imagine the Forces and frontiers level being in this game is mainly down to recent games assets being easy to reuse Not that it's a bad thing, I imagine the late levels in sonic generations like rooftop and planet wisp used existing assests
Kingdom Valley was one of the levels I wanted so badly if they added DLC for the OG Generations, but that didn’t happen of course. I'm just happy they brought it back, and it ended up being my favorite level in this game!
I'm guessing the new Supporting Me Remix not having lyrics may be more of character development. He isn't fighting for Maria's wish at this point and the only time he saw her at this point in Shadow Generations was brief and he thought he was just seeing things.
I think Gerald had multiple Ultimate Lifeform prototypes of varying species. This one looked like a lizard but he might have made other prototypes resemble a lion, gorilla, shark, dragon, etc. Imagine Gerald left other lifeforms like Shadow contained in stasis in an undisclosed location?
Thank you so much, that thing about Amy is the same with me, Amy is a good charsctervin Sonjc Boom show, the same in the comics, I evervout Frontiers and Superstar I thibk they count, If hate that people said that this game was made for a "modern audience" ( they aren't real) because they remove that scene and cover Rouge back a little more.
A lot of typos, but I sort of share the sentiment. Sonic hasn't been infected with woke because SEGA is merely addressing problems that have been around for a while. With Amy, they're just going too far in the other direction, but Rouge is merely streamlined to better fit in with her franchise. She's still the seductive jewel thief we know and love, and you need only look at the gratuitous ass shot she gets during the Shadow Vs. Sonic cutscene.
Kingdom Valley is fantastic in Shadow Gens. That waterfall section especially is gorgeous. Sonic Team gave Black Doom and Mephiles what they needed in this game, stories that treat their inclusion with respect. I don’t like how the cupcake edit looks at all, but I am all for massively downplaying Yandere Amy, I mostly agree with Johnny when he says that people don’t remember how thick it got.
The slide has been literally useless since I think as far back as Forces. Frontiers doesn't use it for anything. I have no idea why they keep bringing it back!
Doom’s Eye reminds me of Staro from DC. And it makes me wonder if that was intentional for this game specifically. Seeing how Black Doom has more that one floating eye that he can just summon. Much like how Staro uses mini clones of himself and is an extension of him.
You can dislike "yandere Amy" all you like, but between Lost World, Forces, or the Gens rewrite, I don't know what her character currently is. Frontiers did all of the heavy lifting of "a girl who loves love."
Oh I think the Supporting Me remix in this game is absolutely phenomenal. Like literally my favourite remix. No lyrics yeah but like fuck me that guitar is so divine
Okay, but Emerl is mentioned in Gerald's journals both physical and in-game. Gerald even shows them a collection of guns and even shows them how they work. The issue is Gerald only has guns and when the military takes Emerl, Emerl is inteoduced to higher firepower hence why Emerl attacks Arc.
1:31 THEY’RE ARMS not wings 14:39 The Journal DOES mention it both physical and digital versions 19:29 Literally the “Sakura” of the Sonic universe, she’s better off what she is nowadays than 20 years ago
@@smashmaster521They're arms, & ONLY arms. He NEVER flies. The closest he comes to flying is using their strength to propel himself in the air without enough force pushing him off the ground, only to either to that surprising, yet epic, body slam, or stick himself to the wall, that's NOT flying. People only said they're wings 'cause Shadow gets wings & no other reason.
@@themenacingsloth Biolizard doesn't fly because he's too big to fly. Besides, his hands look like wings, so why can't they be both? That way, everyone wins (Except Amy fans...Supposedly).
When Gerald and Maria show up as NPCs later on, Gerald does hypothisise about Shadow going to places he hasn't been to yet in optional dialogue. It is weird that there's no cutscenes were Shadow acknowledges it, aside from the Infinite fight anyway. I will say that even though Amy's personality is better than she used to be, what they've replaced it with is very unremarkable. Her arc in Frontiers is she wants to share her love with world... But how is that any different from Sonic fighting for everyone's freedom and saving the world? It's a very vague goal IMO. Also I feel like she should be allowed to have her fangirl moments, as long as she doesn't become overly obsessed or one note, like in the early issue of the IDW comics where there are multiple panels of her in awe of how cool Sonic is, but she's also the hardworking leader of the restoration effort.
Rather than Infinite, which I agree wouldn't make sense being in the game, I agree that Emerl/Gemerl would have been a better fight to surprise us with, especially as it would be a handheld representative for Shadow, akin to Sonic getting Water Palace from Rush
I think Kingdom Valley and Rail Canyon/Bullet Station are the only stages that don't reuse assets. The Ark borrows from the Shadow boss fight in Sonic Gens, Sunset Heights reuses Forces assets, Chaos Island from Frontiers, and Radical Highway has Speed Highway and Skyscraper Scamper elements.
0:43 I STILL HAVEN’T FOUND HIM! Seriously I keep finding the rest of his wave and he taunts me on the back of the box! Then he showed up again and his fight was so cool and I want him so bad!
I just want cutesy, energetic Amy back - Amy in Frontiers just felt so tired and lacking. She can still have a crush on Sonic, just not so extreme. They WAY overcorrected and now one of my favorite Sonic characters is so lifeless and bland. :( I really liked when they started introducing tarot to her character as a reference to the CD manual, but now it just feels like the only thing she's got.
Exactly why cant people understand we just want her cutesy energetic city girl energy back, i dont want her to assault people but i also dont want her to randomly being all about how much she loves nature and turn into a team mom as girls in media usually go...
What you mention was Amy from Sonic Boom the show, she still love Sonic but not so extreme, they also give hints that Sonic love her, as for Frontiers is because if the them of that game, the current Amy can became herown character, she only have one thing now? Then nothing change because was the same with old Amy.
>"It now feels like the Tarot cards is her only personality traint" >games with Amy using tarots: 1 "Oh my god, Sonic Team stuuuuup using doz ztupid cards and make Emy parasocislly attracted to Sawnik!!😡😡😡"
It's too bad that Shadow doesn't have any rival boss fights like Sonic does. I could definitely see Sonic, Emerl, and Infinite being the rival bosses Shadow has to fight.
Jumping the gun on bosses a bit but I was mostly unspoiled on this game (with the exception of Black Doom and Mephiles returning as well as Kingdom Valley bc I accidentally checked the Steam achievements early while I was playing) so when I got to the second boss I freaked the fuck out because that track is one of my favorite vocal themes in Sonic so bringing back that boss with a remix of it had me unironically screaming and jumping in my chair LOL
Funnily enough, I think SA1 was Amy's most TAME for the 2000s (SA1 is technically 90s, but shuddap). I've had this conversation with others about this, but there's, like, only one scene where Amy is a little off and even then it's more comedic (the "cute couples get in free" scene). Other than that? Amy's pretty chill. Heck, I like to think current Amy is finally following up on what Amy said at the end of her campaign about getting Sonic to respect her. It's just SA2 took, like, 300 steps back. Now for full transparency, I am one of the people who doesn't like the edits for Amy. I don't HATE them, but I don't like them either. They feel...half-assed; especially the last one. See, because Amy is comically stronger than she looks, I would've actually preferred if they kept the original scene. The IDW comics LITERALLY keep bringing up her strength and people being surprised! It would've been cool. But they changed it to a light shove...while not changing the Sonics reactions at all. Yeah, kinda half-assed. I don't think erasing Amy's past characterization is a good move though. It's like Tails' characterization in the 2010s. People wanted that erased but Frontiers, thankfully, had the characters acknowledge that those moments DID happen. That's what we should be doing: Acknowledge that they happened and move forward from there.
Given that they essentially have Tails, Knuckles and Shadow go through arcs that bring back past events that further highlight the characters where they are now despite certain events like Forces or Shadow 05, its likely the idea going forward for future titles and the cast.
Halo Reach did something similar to SonicxShadow Generations in regards to it's journals, namely the Reach Limited Edition came with Dr. Halsey's Journal. Which is very similar to Gerald Robotnik's Journal in that it's the in-universe journal of the scientist who created one of the main characters. In this case Dr. Halsey being the one who created the Master Chief while Gerald created Shadow.
_Thank you._ It really does bear repeating that Amy's Adventures arc--correct me if I'm wrong, but her first _real_ arc in the games' continuity, was learning she can fend for herself and deciding to earn Sonic's respect. The way Amy is now-i.e. a character who actually can have _character_ beyond stalking Sonic-just feels like what she should have been gradually working towards the whole time... and heck, what we'd already been getting shades of here and there, because her writing was just that inconsistent :P Plus, let's not exaggerate things here: While I do kinda miss the absolute cartoon-level slapstick of Amy somehow knocking _Knuckles_ ten feet away (and I mean, the loose canon of the Twitter takeovers gave some credence to her power), she still totally tries to hug Sonic here, his scared/annoyed reaction and all. So though we lose a humorous image, really the cupcake tray is just Amy shifting to another, more reasonable method of getting Sonic's attention, instead of _just_ continuing to try to hug him for a good fifteen seconds. Seriously, count how much time passes between Amy first trying to hug Sonic and the camera cutting back to the two of them. Even assuming what we see all happens in real time, in hindsight it isn't a stretch that Amy should have realized the forced hug approach wasn't going to work XP
This is kinda miss communication but if you talk to Gerald he did said the places you seen like Sunset City, and Chaos island are future events yet to come yet this dialogue never tells who’s future? It’s sonic or shadow?(obviously it’s sonic).
i get dropping the yandere angle (i honestly don't hate it but it has been like 20 years of it lol) but I kinda do like the idea of her still pining after Sonic and I do hope they don't just drop that entirely. But apparently Sega is strongly against the idea of any sort of romantic relationship beyond "the conductor of the april fool's VN has a wife i guess" so that's probably getting hidden away until the corporate side shifts again.
It does feel lately that Sonic Team has kinda lost their fear of 06 and the stuff that came with it.
And that's good. 06's reputation hung over the entire franchise for way too long and it's good that they don't seem to be afraid to admit that 06 and Shadow existed.
Mind you it seems they moved towards being terrified to mention Infinite existing but hey...progress
Sega learnt a lot of right lessons in the aftermath of 06, but they also learnt all the wrong lessons.
I'm not too sure the "fear of 06" was ever holding them back from doing things. We still got the boost formula which they iterated on for a couple of years until randomly losing the plot with whatever the hell Lost World was trying to do. They attempted a "serious" plot again with Forces and that fell flat on its face embarrassingly, but this has nothing to do with being afraid to mention 06. They were just stumbling for years trying to do something that sorta worked again and we got that with Frontiers. 06 and the other dark age stuff are only being mentioned in terms of nostalgia bait. I think they'll actually lose that fear when (or if) they try doing something new with the concepts and characters those failures brought.
@@Kingdom850 I mean, that’s the point of this game. It’s building upon the events of shadow 05.
Also, Forces was also nostalgia bait. The difference between that game and this one is that here it feels actually meaningfull to shadows character.
@@Frank-zb7zh
I am convinced Classic Sonic was a last minute addition in Forces Planning Phase, and because of which... they decided to throw in Green Hill and Chemical Plant.
I think "Sonicguru" said it best, "They tried to go back to what made the games "good" again." Lost World was worse with the nostalgia, tbh.
@@Frank-zb7zhDoes it really build on sth when there is no level rep? Black doom and the doom powers are gone when the story ends and the biggest plot points revealed correlate with sa2 more than sth.
@11:35
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is WHY he is known as the Great Clement-zero lines, no waiting, just quick and effective with the killshot to Gareth's statement.
*Chef Kiss*
Had me cracking up the whole time
I love hearing Johnny and Ted laugh like that. It’s so joyful.
I've played Rivals 2 as a kid and even I couldn't name one LMFAO
Til I'm told otherwise, I'm headcanoning Eggman's dad's name as Julian Robotnik (hard-core Sonic fans who get this reference, give yourselves a pat on the back)
Good idea. He also hates that hedgehog. Plus, he could be voiced by Jim Cummings!
i always headcanoned eggman's dad's name as theodore robotnik (for obvious reasons).
@@alimowla3204 an excellent Deepcut, I approve
@@alimowla3204And the Julian part can be the middle names of he AND Ivo!
@JJ_R Personally I would headcanon Long John Baldry, but Cummings ain't too bad either.
20:31 They don’t miss Yandere Amy, John. What they DO miss is the bubbly energetic girl she used to be. By making her more “mature” they’ve inadvertently neutered not just one of the most distinct dynamics in the franchise (being the “chaser and the chased” with Sonic) but also a lot of her core personality, and they didn’t really replace it with anything of substance. Now she’s just kinda blandly nice with everyone. And also tarot cards, because that was a thing in an old manual.
Frankly I’m starting to fear that Tails might be suffering from this as well, mainly due to how most of his dialogue in recent stuff is just him being an exposition machine and technobabble.
Why do you think Tails is only acting like that "now"...?
That has been the general problem with him since Heroes, maybe not the techno-speak...but exposition is pretty much all he ever said for a long while.
I'm so glad somebody else said it.
Amy, in many ways was much like Sonic, they both knew exactly who they were and what they wanted and would go out of their way to do what they thought was right.
I miss the aggressively flamboyant, and passionate Amy who wore her heart on her sleeve. My problem with her character now days is that she doesn't feel like a more mature Amy, she seems like an entirely different person that we call Amy Rose.
@ It may mainly be due to how Ian Flynn just writes dialogue making it much less tolerable, but at least up until Colors Tails still did have some semblance of youthful innocence to him that made him endearing. It’s slowly been whittled away ever since then, and playing through Frontiers was what set the alarm off for me.
Amy is still "bubbly", the fandom just has a big problem that if a character isn't doing this specific thing in every scene their personality is "changed." Frontiers had literally everyone become more serious and that was even explained by the game's literal atmosphere. The Murder of Sonic, IDW, Prime, etc. have Amy as the same. And it's insane to complain about tarot cards being used in ONE game but act like Amy doing something slightly different means the character is dead or something. "a thing in an old manual" it was literally the reason why she was IN SONIC CD.
The HAMMER was from a spin-off fighting game. Should they phase that out too? Or is it only okay to do the same thing over and over if it's from Sonic Adventure specifically?
@@PhantomOfTheKnight Okay, I'm a bit conflicted here, so bear with me: Just going off of CD and the first two Adventure games (so before her character exaggeration came into play), calling the Amy andSonic chaser/chased dynamic the _most_ distinct in the franchise is... kind of pushing it. The most they really did with it was having there be one obligatory moment per Adventure game, and then afterwards Sonic and Amy more or less work together just fine without it being a big part of their dynamic. And in all three games-especially CD-Sonic _does_ save Amy, so from the start it being a subversion of the typical male/female protagonist relationship of the time was _very_ downplayed (as much as I do like that comparison).
_But._ What I _will_ agree with, is that going forward they _need_ to bring back Amy's more energetic, quirky side. Frontiers I'll call the one free pass, as the scenario didn't really give Amy many opportunities to show that part of her character anyway. But for me, the _real_ distinct part of Amy's character is her bubbly attitude, coupled with her "all-loving hero" traits and strong loyalty to her friends, and how she can still kick ass while staying true to those traits (I'd actually say _Superstars_ is the best example of that we've seen thus far).
And don't get me wrong, I'm not saying I'd _object_ to getting a couple more moments where we see that Amy still clearly has a crush on Sonic; that has undeniably been part of her character from the start, and it's endearing when done well. But with her Adventures arc literally being her decided to _earn_ Sonic's respect, I'd rather we finally see Amy get fleshed out without requiring her most prominent character trait to outright revert back to "chase the hedgeheg until marriage."
Btw, Sonic Battle confirms that Amy's bracelets are weighted.
Not only that, Cream is strong enough to carry her with those weights AND Big in heros
Her own limiters
One of the few moments of respect she got in battle 😭
Wait that’s where it’s from? I have been seeing Amy has weighted wrist bands going around a lot the last few years but could never find an official source. I thought it was just a really popular headcanon from outta nowhere.
As someone whose favorite Sonic character has always been Amy, I don't miss "yandere" Amy. I miss the energetic, happy-go-lucky girl who wore her heart on her sleeve. The kind-hearted girl who would go out of her way to help others, but could also be a bit short-sighted and short-tempered. Nowadays, it feels like they want to turn Amy into the "Mom Friend." No shade to those types of characters, I love Katara from ATLA. However, that's not who Amy Rose is. Yes, she's the heart of the team, but that doesn't mean she's always going to be the level-headed one that has to "keep the boys in line". If anything, she's just as capable of making rash decisions as say Sonic.
Also, the whole "yandere Amy" thing is something I feel is blown way out of proportion. If you really pay attention to the games, I find that Amy's "yandere traits" aren't NEARLY as prevalent as many like to act like they are. Other than Sonic Battle and Free Riders, I don't think Amy's badly written in any of the "Pre-Colors Era" games. Even in instances like Heroes' "marry me" line, or that part in Rush where Amy gets angry that another girl (Blaze) wants to find Sonic, it's not that bad in the context of the whole game. What, I'm supposed to take these single, less-than-favorable moments and completely write off Amy's character as a whole in those games because of it? That seems both unfair, as well as incredibly shallow. Like sure, let's just completely undermine Amy's role as the leader of Team Rose in Heroes and how she encourages them to not to give up and to keep moving forward to save Froggy and Chocola, as well as ignore how witnessing Amy's general personality and demeanor gives a Blaze a moment of introspection on her own sense of character. That's fine. That's fair, right?
I could honestly go on for a lot longer, but this comment is long enough as it is, and I'm not even sure how many people are going to read. My point is, people really need to move past the ideas that "Amy was so bad before," and "Modern Amy is so much better," and "Boom Amy is the best version of Amy" because I feel like these ideas stem from an unfair and exaggerated view on her character. Amy had a lot going for her already, that many people overlooked simply because they thought she was only obsessed with Sonic, which again is very unfair. I'm not saying Modern Amy is bad, I still love her. However, I hate the idea that her character has to be morphed and contorted into something that is more "acceptable" to an audience that has been unfair to her for years.
Fun fact about Gerald's journal in game. You CAN read the excerpts of the journal by pushing a button (I forget which, but the game literally tells you what button you can push) that shows the text version of the cursive. Unfortunately for me, I figured that well after I struggled reading all of his entries in cursive. So you don't need to go to the wiki for that~
Including the torn up page.
Haven’t dived into the journal yet but what I’ve seen has been a big tough (it prob doesn’t help that it’s probably the American form of “cursive” where the letter sometimes barely resemble their true forms unlike British “joined up writing” where it’s mostly normal letters connected lol)
if you talk to gerald in the overworld he does actually acknowledge "So youve seen places you dont recognize? Perhaps youre being shown places from your future as well"
although it still doesnt explain chaos island (unless hes in frontiers 2 or some shit)
I can't believe they talked over Big the Cat, No reaction. That's honestly kinda even funnier.
As much as I would have loved an Infinite fight, it doesn't make sense story-wise. Not only has Shadow not met him, but it would just not make much sense. Mephiles makes sense because the Time Eater pulls him from a timeline that doesn't exist, and Shadow not remembering him is because '06's events were rendered non-canon. Mephiles is desperately wanting to exist again, and Shadow just kicks his ass to move on, not caring that this creature that tried to kill him and that he doesn't know is gone
Honestly I’m surprised Kingdom Valley wasn’t the 06 level in Generations given it was the star level of that game, it’s on the box art, it was the E3 & XBLA demo, it was all over the marketing.
It's because Crisis City was the most rememberable level from 06 that it made the most sense as to why fans voted for it.
The fans voted what levels they wanted in Generations. That's why we had 4 city levels in the game. I feel they would've picked Kingdom Valley in the original otherwise.
For Sonic Crisis City was better, been the star level mean nothing, if that was the case why is Chemical Plant the second level? For Sonic classic and modern Crisis City is better, for Shadow is Kingdom Valley.
Is it ironic that Kingdom Valley in Shadow Gens is the best level in the game?
@@Mario9919DX No. It's a well-made level that recaptures the qualities of the original Kingdom Valley to a T.
20:20 Sonic Boom Amy is the best Amy. She has a crush on Sonic and she acts like it, but it's not portrayed annoyingly and she has other pieces to her character.
@samu1414 Boom Amy is portrayed as hiding her crush towards Sonic and while that does work for Boom Amy, Canon Amy's personality is perfectly represented by the very weapon she wields. Basically, it's not in her nature to be shy or demure.
Canon Amy's the type to get in someone's face and tell them exactly how she feels, and with confidence to boot.
A character not being annoying to you does not make them better , like I don’t care about charmy but I perfected when he actually has a loud personality now he’s just excited boy , you didn’t even mention what makes boom Amy the best Amy just her crush on sonic 😂, everyone who always says that never actually what makes her good
I guess I didn't define it but the problem with Amy isn't that she's annoying, it's that she's one-note. Boom Amy feels like a character; she has her own routine lifestyle, she adds her own unique takes on the conversation the five have, she has solutions to problems the others don't always see. Classic Amy hardly does anything on her own, she just responds to situations she's put in but doesn't pursue anything besides the one-note love for Sonic. I don't really see how it would be hard not to see pre- Lost World Amy (although ever since 06 they were toning her down already) as an uninteresting character with no motivation. I think they've gone too far though and Amy's fortune card thing just feels tacked on because they needed something for her to... have a defining characteristic about? I don't know, point is in mainline games she's never been a good character.
@@samu1414 superstars and idw classic Amy don’t exist , Amy is littery the one who helps trip by herself 💀 , Amy has other things then just loving sonic you know
@@samu1414 Amy not being annoying doesn’t make her a good character, 💀 2000s Amy had way more to her than boom and current game Amy good and bad , she was a bubbly energetic gogeter , who stands by her own beliefs and can be very ignorant , you really didn’t describe anything about boom Amy lmao
“Supporting Me” without lyrics is like “Open Your Heart” without lyrics; It sounds cool, but it feels like there’s something missing.
I really enjoy it without actually.
Or Dreams of an Absolution without lyrics.
Okay I literally just played the original Biolizard fight the other day (side note but that boss sucks ass and this version is so much better to play) and I think I'm stupid because I didn't notice the lyrics at all?? Granted I wasn't playing with headphones on and the speaker in my monitor sounds like ass but still I might be deaf.
@@Aisubun It has lyrics, its just that you can't understand them because it sounds like they are singing underwater.
If you want to know the lyrics, listen to the 3DS version of generations. That song is actually understandable. the Sonic Forces variant is also an option.
They should've done the whole MGRR thing where it starts with instrumentals, but then when the wings come out, the lyrics kick in
I do wonder why the Supporting Me vocals were missing in the game considering they were in the trailer. Otherwise the remix is hands down the best since SA2, might even be on par with it. It’s cool too since it’s changed from the sort of techno rave music that usually signified Shadow in SA2 to metal like his solo game and later appearances.
Also I adore Kingdom Valley in this game. It’s so much fun, it looks great, the music is awesome, and I love how they use Chaos Control and Doom Surf. Also I like how this game has all the regular bipedal Eggman robots and the GUN robots. It’s interesting to see how different that enemy type looks from game to game. Makes me wish they could reference cartoon stuff and throw the Swat Bots in from SATAM.
There's a fan edit with the vocal back in on TH-cam and it sounds great.
More than likely it will be included when the official soundtrack is released.
@@CanterlotCrusaderThere’s a couple out there. They’re pretty good, yeah.
fun fact: biolizard has a confirmed birthday, in the report that rouge brings up in sa2, it's listed as january 27.
also, interestingly, the gerald journals in this game confirm that biolizard is in fact a genetically modified salamander, which is kinda weird because for years, i kinda thought he was a genetically modified monitor lizard, because in the report that rouge brings up in sa2, biolizard's initial body length is listed as 2.7 meters, which is somewhat accurate to most monitor lizards.
...why the fuck was it born on my birthday
IDW Amy seems liek the perfect balance and what Clement is talking abotu at the end, they didn't completely erase that part of her character, and acknowledge she used to be like that , but show that she matured a bit more and is abel to fned for herself and sty focused when sonic is around
Regarding the whole Amy characterization drama, i definitely prefer how she’s portrayed now than she was in the 2000s. But I won’t lie and say that there a few things I missed about her old character. Not necessarily her obsession over Sonic, but more so her determination to get what she wants. Like in Sonic Riders: Zero Gravity, there was a cutscene where Storm gets in Amy’s way and separates her from Sonic and the group. But she doesn’t plead for Storm to move, she just wacks him with her hammer to get him out of way. Honestly, I think a perfect mixup of Amy’s modern portrayal with her old determination would please both crowds, but that’s just me.
Apparently in japaness, shadow is still a jackass to the biolizard
I think emerl in dark beginnings is mainly shown because of the fact that it's one of the only elements of the ark's backstory that doesn't involve shadow being born or maria being killed aside the artificial chaos breakout and that's not nearly as entertaining, so they went with having a small clip of shadow's life on the ark to show off
Jet the Hawk's Tuna, spit on that thing.
Gerald actually brings up about Shadow telling him about seeing places he hasn't seen nor been to when you talk to him.
14:50 Gerald has several pages in this game's journal dedicated to his discovery of the Gizoid and submitting it to the government so that GUN would get off his back about not producing a new weapon
Funny enough though if you keep reading more into the journal, we find out that it eventually led to the Gizoid attacking the ARK which caused the Artificial Chaos to go rogue in their programming and caused so much damage that they had to call in GUN. So in other words, the Gizoid attack was what caused the eventual GUN Raid.
*Gareth mentions Legacy of Kain
That is a gentleman of great taste.
10:00 I agree with this. A very important part of the Sonic franchise is that it has to have confidence that it's the coolest thing ever, regardless of whether or not it actually is. This is why Forces feels so hollow, it clearly lacks all confidence in itself and goes for the safest (and lamest) route possible. 06 had that confidence, which is why people find more salvageable from it than Forces, a game which reviewed better.
It’s clear Sega & Sonic Team are done ignoring games like Shadow the Hedgehog & 06, they acknowledge they were embarrassments, but let’s stop trying to pretend they didn’t happen, embrace them for what they are & make better uses of them, bring back Black Doom, bring back Kingdom Valley & make them good.
I doubt getting over 06 was why they brought back Kingdom Valley for this game. If that were the case, then Sega technically got over 06 when they used Crisis City in the original Generations release.
@@Ability-King-KK
Remember Crisis City was voted in by fans, they wanted that level in Generations
@@SmashBrosAssembleThe fact that they let us vote for a 06 stage at all though.
The Japanese version of the Biolizard Boss FIght keeps Shadow in character with how he was in SA2. He continuously berates the Biolizard without even a hint of sympathy or pity. There's also differences in dialogue in the Mephiles boss fight between English and Japanese that give a very different impression of Mephiles' defeat.
Of all his powers, I wish Shadow had kept Doom Spear, Doom Blast and Doom Surf.
What people don't want, is for Frontiers Amy to be the norm and for her crush on Sonic to be pushed to the wayside because its a central part of her character to be passionate about things that matter to her. Battle wasn't the best representation of that, but if the alterative is writing like Frontiers where she really is as her most "mature" (bland) then I'd honestly take Battle. Amy is at her best when she can act selfish, have a temper and be a bit unhinged because its a source of humor and emblematic of her general passionate personality. She can and should have flaws that aren't entirely palatable for everyone.
From what I understand, Mephiles in this game is truer to the Japanese version of 06, where he was a lot more theatrical and over the top compared to the more cold mocking character the English version had
But it does work with the idea that Mephiles has been sealed away in a void, aware the entire time and just going crazy because of it. He's even more unhinged and he doesn't even bother trying to hide it
@@Mobysimo I personally think the Japanese script portrays his new unhinged character in a way that doesn't feel at odds with who he was in 06. He's clearly more deranged where as in English he just sounds desperate.
That's SEGA's huge glaring flaw with the new characterization of the cast. For some reason everyone has to be bland and static to one general personality trait, not allowed to have some dimension to their character.
Wasn't Generation stages voted by fans is the reason certain stages made it in Generation.
Shadow will talk to Gerald about seeing areas he does not remember sometime around Kingdom valley and Chaos island so it is brought up but not in a cutscene
I had to hear this so you guys do too
Apparently Biolizard is a girl and the orbs you destroy are it's eggs.
I mean, this is the guy who, in the Hero Path of Shadow The Hedgehog, upon seeing an emerald, said “This is like taking candy from a baby, which is fine by me!”, without a hint of remorse. I’m not surprised that Shadow killed unborn babies.
@JJ_R Fr
I doubt their fertilized eggs.
I mean, this thing doesn't have eyes anymore and needs a giant-ass device to properly breathe. If Gerald screwed it that much, I'm pretty sure he managed to take away it's ability to give birth
The choice isn't between yandere Amy and the current Amy who doesn't have any feelings for Sonic at all. You can have her still have a crush on Sonic without it being ridiculously overbearing like it was in Heroes or Battle. Her arc in SA1 wasn't "I'm over my crush on Sonic now", it was "I'm not going to keep chasing Sonic, I'm going to become someone that _he'll_ want to chase." And SA2 stuck by that. She makes one comment about wanting him to marry her in the entire game, and it was clearly a joke. She still had her crush, but she wasn't obsessive about it anymore. She was very well-written in SA1 and 2, and she was allowed to have one of her two defining character traits. It's like these days they're too afraid to give her her crush on Sonic either because some people found it annoying, or because it's less accepted now to have the main female character in love with the male lead. But if we can recognize that it's good that SEGA is no longer afraid of 06 and its legacy, why can't we acknowledge that they also shouldn't be afraid of Amy's legacy? It was one of her two most defining traits and it was just dropped with no fanfare. We shouldn't have to choose between two extremes. She can have her crush on Sonic without it being cringey, annoying, or awkward. If they want to give her an arc where she accepts that Sonic will never love her back, by all means, but A, they never did that, and B, that doesn't mean she has to _stop_ loving him.
Tldr
I'm going to go to bat for Heroes and say that it as 1 very bad moment with Amy for sure, but she's on the up and up for the rest of that game's writing of her as a Team Leader aiming to beat Eggman both for wronging her friends and prove she's Sonic's equal. Tone down the Grand Metropolis moment (make the fight about "Sonic" having Froggy and Chocola in the Newspaper) and I'd flat out say it's the standard to hold her characterization to.
20:25 I like to headcanon that Big The Cat was nowhere near Sonic's birthday party when the Time Eater kidnapped everyone. He just walked into this endless white void after the fact.
After hearing Gareth’s response to Ted right before the video ended, I couldn’t help but make this reference.
“I hear you’re a racist now, father!” - Gareth, probably
15:37 no emeral in this game shocked me, but I did call that he would just be in the first episode of dark beginnings and nothing else still cool he appeared in anything new
Shadow even thought you kick my ass I still proud of you and i need your help.- Black Doom
3:33 Luckily when you collect them the game will give you the option to change the text to not incursive so you can read it just fine in game.
After recently watching the SA2 Real Time Fandub again, I'm hear the Biolizard going, "Brother! I need you to stop trying to hit me! Brother! You've reset my voice module button! Brother! AAAAAAAAAAAA! I gave birth."
I love how the Biolizard battle starts off exactly the same as the OG fight in SA2, and then it gets the freaky tentacle arms and the fight becomes way more dynamic!
Small correction: Geralds journal in directly mentions Emerel multiple times. Gerald even sent him to the government to placate them as they pushed him to provide results for Project Shadow. In doing this, Emeril grew much more capable at combat and began the rampage on the Ark.
This in turn stirred up the artificial chaos that got more researchers hurt, and led to the raid by GUN.
8:31 "i'm surprised they bothered" this was like the second most requested sonic 06 level for generations iirc, not to mention the level used the most in 06's press tour and where shadow first met mephiles
Initially I was upset that Emerl wasnt a boss fight but after finishing the game and Charii's video him explaining that each boss fight reflects a different messed up aspect of Shadow made a lot more. Also they stayed consistent with the biblical parallels these villains have.
The vocals on the original Supporting Me are so low in the mix the isolated track probably didn't vibe well with this newer version.
Also Supporting Me is a sleeper for best song in the franchise. The fact that it's not a main theme but everyone knows it by name says it all
But the Forces remix had lyrics, and early trailers for thus game had the lyrics...
The Journals Do Mention Emerl/Gizoid.
a small thing i love about shadow generations is whenever you go through those chaos control rail things, it actually makes the exact sound as going through those rails in digital circuit in shadow the hedgehog, i like those small details
regarding kingdom valley, i knew it was in the game but i stayed away from any footage as best i could, and i'm so happy i did, i popped off when i got to the mach speed section
I think the Amy discourse is about extremes. I want a middleground personally, because the current version of Amy is kind of boring.
I liked her having a temper and more energy. She may have had a lot of annoying moments back then but it was more memorable than how she is done nowadays. No yandere Amy though... That's... No...
While Shadow the Hedgehog and especially 06 aren’t really considered good, I’m glad they don’t pretend like they didn’t happen. Bringing back some things and improving them is cool. With the whole Amy discourse, I was mostly indifferent to Amy’s character, didn't really have a problem with it and kinda thought the hate she got was overblown.
Modern Amy is nothing like Sonic Boom Amy. Johnny must of been drinking some good shit for this part.
Didn't Johnny always use to mock sonic's serious attempts at story telling because of the main character being a blue hedgehog and all that bs?
That was also a decade ago, I think he's grown numb towards the attempts at storytelling nowadays or finally wisened up from his 2D Sonic biases, which is which? Honestly don't care personally but I do like how Johnny speaks of the stories from older games with a bit more fondness.
@@andrewstokes6623 I think it's more that he wants to see what can be done with those stories he didn't like now that SEGA's making a serious effort with respecting Sonic continuity. Besides, Johnny's issues with those stories wasn't that they were too serious, but that they were clumsy executions of that serious tone. I don't necessarily agree with that, but I'm also biased towards those games' narratives.
Point is, absence makes the heart grow fonder, so let's see what we can make out of these stories from the Adventure-Black Knight era now that Flynn's handling the writing.
@@smashmaster521 in his sonic 06 review he says that it's a series about a blue hedgehog and a fox with two tails and how the series taking itself seriously is crazy.
@@anythinginazuma7641 as someone who believes he still believes that to an extent, his old sonic reviews are not the be all on johnny's opinions now that follow through on consensus nowadays
@@anythinginazuma7641i ghknk the reason is because 06 narrative is so lost that forgets to also have fun or funny moments and the characterization is also pretty poor (and it wasn't even great to begin with). Combine that with all the plot wholes, confusing motivations and you get terrible writing
Black shadow trying to figure out how to escape white space.
[Wandering white with pink highlights bunny cat]: "Contract?"
Oh fudge. The Madoka jokes already setting in?
11:47 Clemont made everyone laugh really hard lol, well played
A couple pages of Gerald's Journal in this game talk about the Gizoid and there's even pictures.
Also, in White Space, if you talk to Gerald after beating Sunset Heights he straight up says it's possible that they're places Shadow hasn't visited yet.
The connection to Chaos Island is still not really there unless they make Shadow go there in a future game.
Actually if you talk to Gerald at certain points in white space Shadow will mention going through somewhere he's never been before so they actually do acknowledge that Shadow wouldn't know Chaos Island.
0:54 Fun fact. You don't even need to dodge these. You can seriously just stand to the side, and the Biolizard will just keep spitting in the same direction until it gets tired.
Am I gonna need to be as thorough with Kyubey as Shadow is with Black Doom?
Ok, thanks for this comment, because I wouldn't have remembered what "Cubeeh" they mentioned
@@dutczar5436 Alien. Hive mind. Each body being expendable because there's like a gazillion more, and the consciousness only needs one to survive.
There aren't a lot of characters in other media named Kyubey nowadays, not that I could think of any and I could be wrong about that.
@@bldem4ster103 Other closest example goes by Kurama now and is pronounced different anyway.
The supporting me remix I'm truly in love with the guitar riffs and drum bass is so phenomenal. It's truly worth listening too.
To me the whole Amy discourse thing, it's one thing to change her character in a future release (i.e. Sonic Frontiers). It's another thing to retcon a previous game during its remastering and pretending like the past didn't happen at all.
I love what they’ve done with the Biolizard fight. Such a huge glow up compared to the original. I love how grotesque & intimidating they made the Biolizard look in this game.
So something I really like about the level choices in this game is that they’re all key moments of Shadow’s life and journey as a character.
The ARK is where he was born and was his home, starting us off on his journey. Rail Canyon is where he first found out about the Shadow Androids after his amnesia stint in Heroes and began to have self doubts about who he is. Kingdom Valley takes place in a point in his life (granted now erased from the timeline) where he fully realized who he is and left the past behind him, while also being the first place where he meets Mephiles. Even Sunset Heights for being seemingly random is a result of Shadow doing the right thing and kicking Infinite’s shit in.
As for Chaos Island hell if I know it represents Shadow’s need to take a fuckin vacation to Hawaii or somethin.
I imagine the Forces and frontiers level being in this game is mainly down to recent games assets being easy to reuse
Not that it's a bad thing, I imagine the late levels in sonic generations like rooftop and planet wisp used existing assests
20:32 Goodbye forever amy rose the hedgehog
6:32
Lewis has seen Madoka Magica confirmed?
I SCREAMED when I heard that little freak's name in BSC. Can't escape him...(gimme movie 4 soon plz I'm dying)
Kingdom Valley was one of the levels I wanted so badly if they added DLC for the OG Generations, but that didn’t happen of course. I'm just happy they brought it back, and it ended up being my favorite level in this game!
I'm guessing the new Supporting Me Remix not having lyrics may be more of character development. He isn't fighting for Maria's wish at this point and the only time he saw her at this point in Shadow Generations was brief and he thought he was just seeing things.
Since Sonic got Radical Highway and Biolizard in 3DS Gens, I think it’s fair Shadow gets Chaos Island and Metal Overlord.
TO BE FAIR: Shadow had fought Metal Overlord to weaken him for Super Sonic and the Light balls Tails and Knuckles.
@@Mario9919DX No, he fought Metal MADNESS. Huge difference. XD
You could also throw Sunset Heights in there since while Shadow goes through a similar level in Forces, it's called Enemy Territory
@@smashmaster521 Oh yeah.
I honestly think the Shadow Gens mix of "Supporting Me" is the best since the original. I just wish it had the vocals like in the trailer.
I think Gerald had multiple Ultimate Lifeform prototypes of varying species. This one looked like a lizard but he might have made other prototypes resemble a lion, gorilla, shark, dragon, etc. Imagine Gerald left other lifeforms like Shadow contained in stasis in an undisclosed location?
18:54 - I never really got the discourse on how Amy is written in recent years honestly.
Thank you so much, that thing about Amy is the same with me, Amy is a good charsctervin Sonjc Boom show, the same in the comics, I evervout Frontiers and Superstar I thibk they count, If hate that people said that this game was made for a "modern audience" ( they aren't real) because they remove that scene and cover Rouge back a little more.
A lot of typos, but I sort of share the sentiment. Sonic hasn't been infected with woke because SEGA is merely addressing problems that have been around for a while. With Amy, they're just going too far in the other direction, but Rouge is merely streamlined to better fit in with her franchise. She's still the seductive jewel thief we know and love, and you need only look at the gratuitous ass shot she gets during the Shadow Vs. Sonic cutscene.
Hooray, I’m early! It’s so weird seeing the 06 Badniks return, but I’m kinda here for it.
I'm with Johnny on Amy's character. She's still not as interesting as she could be, but I'll take that over being annoyed every time I see her.
A character not annoying you dosnet make them better 💀
Kingdom Valley is fantastic in Shadow Gens. That waterfall section especially is gorgeous.
Sonic Team gave Black Doom and Mephiles what they needed in this game, stories that treat their inclusion with respect.
I don’t like how the cupcake edit looks at all, but I am all for massively downplaying Yandere Amy, I mostly agree with Johnny when he says that people don’t remember how thick it got.
Anyone else find it odd that you don't really need to slide at all during Shadow's levels?
The slide has been literally useless since I think as far back as Forces. Frontiers doesn't use it for anything. I have no idea why they keep bringing it back!
@@Sneeakie To be fair, the slide is barely used in all the games it appears.
Not really...The Stomp is more useful for stopping Shadow anyways.
Doom’s Eye reminds me of Staro from DC. And it makes me wonder if that was intentional for this game specifically. Seeing how Black Doom has more that one floating eye that he can just summon.
Much like how Staro uses mini clones of himself and is an extension of him.
16:32 what if shadow regained his memory’s after heroes but then lost it again right before shadow XD
1:28 also biolizard and shadow having wings. A link
You can dislike "yandere Amy" all you like, but between Lost World, Forces, or the Gens rewrite, I don't know what her character currently is. Frontiers did all of the heavy lifting of "a girl who loves love."
Oh I think the Supporting Me remix in this game is absolutely phenomenal. Like literally my favourite remix. No lyrics yeah but like fuck me that guitar is so divine
Okay, but Emerl is mentioned in Gerald's journals both physical and in-game. Gerald even shows them a collection of guns and even shows them how they work. The issue is Gerald only has guns and when the military takes Emerl, Emerl is inteoduced to higher firepower hence why Emerl attacks Arc.
1:31
THEY’RE ARMS not wings
14:39
The Journal DOES mention it both physical and digital versions
19:29
Literally the “Sakura” of the Sonic universe, she’s better off what she is nowadays than 20 years ago
They're wings AND arms.
@@smashmaster521They're arms, & ONLY arms. He NEVER flies. The closest he comes to flying is using their strength to propel himself in the air without enough force pushing him off the ground, only to either to that surprising, yet epic, body slam, or stick himself to the wall, that's NOT flying. People only said they're wings 'cause Shadow gets wings & no other reason.
@@themenacingsloth Biolizard doesn't fly because he's too big to fly. Besides, his hands look like wings, so why can't they be both? That way, everyone wins (Except Amy fans...Supposedly).
When Gerald and Maria show up as NPCs later on, Gerald does hypothisise about Shadow going to places he hasn't been to yet in optional dialogue. It is weird that there's no cutscenes were Shadow acknowledges it, aside from the Infinite fight anyway.
I will say that even though Amy's personality is better than she used to be, what they've replaced it with is very unremarkable. Her arc in Frontiers is she wants to share her love with world... But how is that any different from Sonic fighting for everyone's freedom and saving the world? It's a very vague goal IMO. Also I feel like she should be allowed to have her fangirl moments, as long as she doesn't become overly obsessed or one note, like in the early issue of the IDW comics where there are multiple panels of her in awe of how cool Sonic is, but she's also the hardworking leader of the restoration effort.
Rather than Infinite, which I agree wouldn't make sense being in the game, I agree that Emerl/Gemerl would have been a better fight to surprise us with, especially as it would be a handheld representative for Shadow, akin to Sonic getting Water Palace from Rush
He would make more sense than having Chaos Island in here or Metal Overlord
I think Kingdom Valley and Rail Canyon/Bullet Station are the only stages that don't reuse assets. The Ark borrows from the Shadow boss fight in Sonic Gens, Sunset Heights reuses Forces assets, Chaos Island from Frontiers, and Radical Highway has Speed Highway and Skyscraper Scamper elements.
21:11 LEWIS MENTIONS NARUTO
CLASSIC BRAIN SCRATCH BAY BAY
0:43 I STILL HAVEN’T FOUND HIM!
Seriously I keep finding the rest of his wave and he taunts me on the back of the box!
Then he showed up again and his fight was so cool and I want him so bad!
Is Sonic the Comic an alternate timeline Sonic where just being a hedgehog didn't work out so he needed to find another way to get by?
They brought up STC instant 10/10
Oh my god I lost my shit at the Rivals tangent xD Lmao- Thanks Clement!
Seeing Ryan take so long on Kingdom Valley gives me pain.
the director of Sonic 06 who also produced Shadow Generations has said he would love to remake 06
I just want cutesy, energetic Amy back - Amy in Frontiers just felt so tired and lacking.
She can still have a crush on Sonic, just not so extreme. They WAY overcorrected and now one of my favorite Sonic characters is so lifeless and bland. :(
I really liked when they started introducing tarot to her character as a reference to the CD manual, but now it just feels like the only thing she's got.
Exactly why cant people understand we just want her cutesy energetic city girl energy back, i dont want her to assault people but i also dont want her to randomly being all about how much she loves nature and turn into a team mom as girls in media usually go...
What you mention was Amy from Sonic Boom the show, she still love Sonic but not so extreme, they also give hints that Sonic love her, as for Frontiers is because if the them of that game, the current Amy can became herown character, she only have one thing now? Then nothing change because was the same with old Amy.
I detailed it in another comment, but I'll restate my advocating for Heroes Amy characterization, give-or-take the Team Sonic Boss lines
@@simplyhenry99 Good because she doesn't do nome of that, not on Boom or comics.
>"It now feels like the Tarot cards is her only personality traint"
>games with Amy using tarots: 1
"Oh my god, Sonic Team stuuuuup using doz ztupid cards and make Emy parasocislly attracted to Sawnik!!😡😡😡"
It's too bad that Shadow doesn't have any rival boss fights like Sonic does. I could definitely see Sonic, Emerl, and Infinite being the rival bosses Shadow has to fight.
I feel like most of the mid 2000s characterization issues stem from trying to make the series more like Sonic X
The only thing memorable about Sonic Rivals is that it was Silver's reintroduction.
Too bad no one played it.
Jumping the gun on bosses a bit but I was mostly unspoiled on this game (with the exception of Black Doom and Mephiles returning as well as Kingdom Valley bc I accidentally checked the Steam achievements early while I was playing) so when I got to the second boss I freaked the fuck out because that track is one of my favorite vocal themes in Sonic so bringing back that boss with a remix of it had me unironically screaming and jumping in my chair LOL
clement's little to no comment on the 06 level is the funniest shit, I'd love to know his thoughts though
Funnily enough, I think SA1 was Amy's most TAME for the 2000s (SA1 is technically 90s, but shuddap). I've had this conversation with others about this, but there's, like, only one scene where Amy is a little off and even then it's more comedic (the "cute couples get in free" scene). Other than that? Amy's pretty chill.
Heck, I like to think current Amy is finally following up on what Amy said at the end of her campaign about getting Sonic to respect her. It's just SA2 took, like, 300 steps back.
Now for full transparency, I am one of the people who doesn't like the edits for Amy. I don't HATE them, but I don't like them either. They feel...half-assed; especially the last one. See, because Amy is comically stronger than she looks, I would've actually preferred if they kept the original scene. The IDW comics LITERALLY keep bringing up her strength and people being surprised! It would've been cool. But they changed it to a light shove...while not changing the Sonics reactions at all. Yeah, kinda half-assed.
I don't think erasing Amy's past characterization is a good move though. It's like Tails' characterization in the 2010s. People wanted that erased but Frontiers, thankfully, had the characters acknowledge that those moments DID happen. That's what we should be doing: Acknowledge that they happened and move forward from there.
Given that they essentially have Tails, Knuckles and Shadow go through arcs that bring back past events that further highlight the characters where they are now despite certain events like Forces or Shadow 05, its likely the idea going forward for future titles and the cast.
Halo Reach did something similar to SonicxShadow Generations in regards to it's journals, namely the Reach Limited Edition came with Dr. Halsey's Journal. Which is very similar to Gerald Robotnik's Journal in that it's the in-universe journal of the scientist who created one of the main characters. In this case Dr. Halsey being the one who created the Master Chief while Gerald created Shadow.
Why does Ryan hardly ever use Chaos Control? He fills the meter up like 5 times over and only uses it once per level.
Things Ryan Did Wrong # I already did this joke, but I'll keep it up until he starts playing better.
6:32 - I understood that reference.
Kingdom Valley is easily the best stage in this game, it is one top 5 best 3d designed levels its glorious
_Thank you._ It really does bear repeating that Amy's Adventures arc--correct me if I'm wrong, but her first _real_ arc in the games' continuity, was learning she can fend for herself and deciding to earn Sonic's respect. The way Amy is now-i.e. a character who actually can have _character_ beyond stalking Sonic-just feels like what she should have been gradually working towards the whole time... and heck, what we'd already been getting shades of here and there, because her writing was just that inconsistent :P
Plus, let's not exaggerate things here: While I do kinda miss the absolute cartoon-level slapstick of Amy somehow knocking _Knuckles_ ten feet away (and I mean, the loose canon of the Twitter takeovers gave some credence to her power), she still totally tries to hug Sonic here, his scared/annoyed reaction and all. So though we lose a humorous image, really the cupcake tray is just Amy shifting to another, more reasonable method of getting Sonic's attention, instead of _just_ continuing to try to hug him for a good fifteen seconds.
Seriously, count how much time passes between Amy first trying to hug Sonic and the camera cutting back to the two of them. Even assuming what we see all happens in real time, in hindsight it isn't a stretch that Amy should have realized the forced hug approach wasn't going to work XP
This is kinda miss communication but if you talk to Gerald he did said the places you seen like Sunset City, and Chaos island are future events yet to come yet this dialogue never tells who’s future? It’s sonic or shadow?(obviously it’s sonic).
i get dropping the yandere angle (i honestly don't hate it but it has been like 20 years of it lol) but I kinda do like the idea of her still pining after Sonic and I do hope they don't just drop that entirely. But apparently Sega is strongly against the idea of any sort of romantic relationship beyond "the conductor of the april fool's VN has a wife i guess" so that's probably getting hidden away until the corporate side shifts again.