MCAD Shootout! - Rhino vs Solidworks vs OnShape
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- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 22 พ.ย. 2017
- David Ledger compares three mechanical CAD packages - Rhino, Solidworks, and the browser based OnShape using 3 typical design examples and discusses the usability of each package.
Which is the most suitable for electronics part modelling or industrial design use?
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David, all this revealed is your skillset in each package.
I wanted to love OnShape but Fusion360 just kept getting better and better. It's useable for push pull or parametric modelling and Free for students /startups.
Maker's Muse have you figured out how to lazily one hand CAD in fusion 360 like is possible to do in Onshape? None of the control settings seem to let me. It's why I've stopped using it tbh.
Why would I not use the keyboard hotkeys and finish it in a fraction of the time?
Just for navigation. You can use hotkeys if you want. You don't have to get defensive.
I'd be interested to hear you elaborate on this. I'm a big proponent of Onshape. What features do you prefer about Fusion360?
Same here, I chose OnShape mainly because I run Linux and I've not been able to get Fusion360 to work in VM. OnShape is so far the best I found which works anywhere. Plus I don't have to update it to get new features.
The final picture is the real gold in this video habahaha
dave cad still better than all of them
Great to see Rhino featured in this shootout. Worth noting that Rhino has access to parametric modeling via the Grasshopper plugin, which is free, and will be bundled with the next major release. Also worth mentioning that Rhino's educational license allows commercial use until the next major release after you lose educational eligibility. I see lots of people mentioning Fusion but I have gotta admit as a Maya user in my day job, Autodesk subscription pricing models really put me off at this point. Fusion might be affordable now, but I am distrustful that it will remain so into the future.
I'm interested in knowing more about Rhino. What makes it better software than Onshape or Blender? What makes it a good surface modeling software?
That homage shot at the end... priceless... Dave Prime Derivative, the circle of life.
At 7:09 you literally mentioned that "Rhino really, really sooking". The very slow time for making the fillets in Rhino was due to using improper technique. At 7:45 you intentionally changed the rail type in Rhino from "Rolling ball" to "Distance from edge". Upon that moment you even saw from the real-time preview that the fillet with "Rolling ball" would work just perfectly (similar to what both Solidworks and Onshape did), but for some unknown reason you decided to NOT use the working solution and opted for the other fillet type that eventually failed, because the bottom shape was a circle. That's something that every experienced Rhino user knows.
I have just started using Fusion 360 at home although I have in the past used Solid Works. I also joined Onshape. I think I’m sold on fusion 360. I would even consider spending my own money on it even though it’s free for hobby use. I hope autocad continue to support the product and keep it free or even the lower cost model. I wonder if solid works is missing a trick given it totally ridiculous price point.
Fusion 360 is free for anyone making less than $100k a year on it. At least it was last time I looked. Well worth adding to your review.
David Ledger. Thanks for taking the time to put this together. I have been leaning towards SW and just wanted to see a little more convincing and this helps.
that end screen! brilliant!
GREAT Video!!!!!! Good Work David!!!!
Hey Dave and Dave2. Good choice finally! I've been using CAD systems for the last 25 years... mostly Autocad before stumbling upon Rhinoceros about 5 years ago. Never ever looked back, amazing tool, fast reliable and very very powerful... and easyu to use. Take it easy and wish you the best with your mechanical designs!
Thanks for video!
Good job, quite helpful.
Great video and really shows that some tools are more suited to some models than others. It also reinforces my beleif that all PCB software is a good decade behind the curve. These mechanical CAD programmes are solving much more complex problems than any PCB tool and can still afford to have nice GUIs.
The only way to do this is to have true experts in each package given the same task. I have been a SolidWorks user since 1998 - and I can model these demos FAR faster. With that said - I am getting tired of the maintenance costs of SolidWorks and integrates MasterCAM for SolidWorks. Excellent performance, but at a big cost.
Maybe Fusion360 can replace it or at least encourage SW and MC to attenuate the pricing.
I use SolidWorks daily, but Catia is also a great tool. I wish I could work in Catia more often.
I love this modified end screed :D
Hi David, are you equally proficient in all three packages? In my opinion, the value of being able to create parts quickly is fairly important; but what is more important is the ability to make changes to designs should they need changing. How do the three stack-up in this regard if decent design intent has and hasn't been used?
Yea Fusion 360 is definitely missing here. Much more accessible as well thanks to its free license for hobbyist and educational use.
nice! Would like to see more comparisons of other packages.
when i start using a software or service or whatever, the most important thing for me is the resources available and its community... solidworks wins in both of my requirements so i am always using it over other similar software...
this was entertaining, would be good to see one for electrical schematics
how exactly did you create the extra surfeses in OnShape?
Which software is best for designing a shoe something like a mouse?
can you put it somehow in the title or preview image if it's a david2 video? thanks
Thumbs up for the end screen :)
How about comparing solid edge, I also have a copy of fusion 360 but as i know solid edge already i've not really looked at it yet. Solid edge also has two methods of part creation ordered and syncronous, we have a heated discussion about one versus the other at work every few months.
Nothing can beat autodesk inventor
lets say i bulid 3d model with a contractor on 3dsmax . what is the chance 3ds make artist will have full control over solidwork? i need to manufactor watch (we talking about 4-7 different part) the most complex part is watch engraving for the dial face.which make me wonder should i go texture with 3dsmax or convert to solidwork and texture on that ? thanks
I bet I'm the only person that's going to mention CATIA lol. Not what I would recommend for a hobbyist but it's used a lot in aerospace, and I personally like it.
How much time have you spent on solidworks vs onshape? it seems like you didn't have nearly as much experience with onshape
Seem like as long as there is a budget for solidworks I would definitely stick to that.
I use Linux so I guess OnShape.
I really like the collaborative stuff that OnShape brings to the table and that I don't have to worrie about backing up my files.
ya i am not into modelling that much as i would rather do electronics , this video was a lot helpful in terms of the point it tried to make, also if you can upload the screencapture at real time on works you did in second channel would be great , grt job Dave2
Thanks!
i use and actually really like PTC Creo, ive used solid works allot but i prefer Creo.
I wish I had creo.
VariCAD workflow is also different. But flexible.
You can create objects anomalous to *machining* or in classical drafting methods; or a combination of both.
It's also parametric.
Runs on Linux, MacOS and Windows.
As a professional CAD user, I have a problem. What software usually you use? Is it Rhyno? An experienced user of any CAD software will do it in less time. If you are AutoCAD user you will get Rhyno very fast compare to an inventor user who will get SolidWorks. An example of how to do it fast: Export each draft view to a plane in the cad environment. You should test is which is better and cheaper to produce CAD to be exported to different ECAD softwares.
Experienced or not I discovered changing between work flows every 5 minutes is very jarring, remember what you see is only 9 of several dozen clips.
I've spent several thousand hours in solidworks, rhino and maybe a couple hundred in Onshape.
I'd be much much faster at any of these packages if I used just them for a day before doing the test instead of swapping suddenly between them.
But before the test what was your go-to do CAD software?
Solidworks for every MCAD need. Rhino for surface modeling and industrial design excluding designs that are more dimensionally defined than aesthetically (solid works for more dimensionally constrained designs). Onshape for electrical components as I often do my electronics design on my surface and on shape is convenient in that regard. I may actually start using rhino for electrical parts, I did may parts with it when preparing for these tests, for me it was just really fast for non-derived models, its also really really fast to startup which is important if only need the application for a couple minutes.
I actually use all three :) I don't however usually swap between them every 5 minutes, that was very jarring.
I think that is Wilmer's point - it doesn't make much sense to make timed comparisons when you are not equally experienced in all these tools (probably nobody is). By definition those numbers are going to be meaningless.
It gives a sense of what is real time at the least. It also allowed me to understand my own work flow bottlenecks and really surprised me that onshape performed so well when compared to the others.
If you disagree with that I think you can agree that it was useful to me, it gave me a better sense of how long a certain type of object would take to model, which is useful in estimating how long something might take to model.
the picture of dave2 in the end is histerical... HAHAHAHAH
Your comment at 02:00 that you would need to delete the fillets and redraw a bunch of stuff in Rhino just to change the radius is not true. All you need to do is "enable history" before you draw your fillets (since Rhino 5, I guess).
No Flamingo for the final output from Rhino? ;)
Didn't include any plug ins for any of the things here unless they were bundled with the default install (photoview360 was).
Maybe you could include Solid Edge ST10 which is a fair contender to throw into the mix.
Creo Parametric and Trimble SketchUp are what I've used, alongside Altium. For checking assemblies, SketchUp is surprisingly good -- and free.
I'd love to get my hands on creo but I'd need to use it for quite some time to become useful with it, its pretty intense as far as I can tell.
Inventor or Fusion 360 for me. Any Autodesk 3D design product.
Between Solidworks and Rhino which one is best for creating any kind of design?!
Rhino for natural looking freeform product design, Solidworks for mechanical design and assembly.
would like to see a comparison to scriptCAD
Same thing with OpenSCAD? This is possible?
OpenSCAD struggles with things like fillets, I just didn't know how to do some of the tests in OpenSCAD, i'm sure its possible but I didn't know how.
Yup, Fusion 360 is definitely worth checking out.
I'm, still looking for a good, inexpensive flippie dot assemblies.
Erm... this is not really an apple to apple comparision. I use both Rhino and Solidworks. Rhino can be made parametric via the Grasshopper environment. Best regards.
Keil, IAR and eggclipse!
I want to see a comparison between free CADs.
You might want to take a look at Creo parametric as well.
I wish I had a license of creo, I do not though :(.
Inventor needs a spot here next to SW - both really good tools but some more complicated features are definitely easier in one vs. the other.
CATIA and Pro/E would be cool to see although they seem to be somewhat less common. NX as well, but I suspect that may be harder to obtain.
For everyone mentioning Fusion 360, it's cool but maybe more on the level of OnShape than a more full-featured program like Inventor.
Your right, very similar, I don't have a license though and I would need to practice that software for quite some time before doing the tests.
I would have appreciated adding Inventor in here simply because it's "free" to University students so I've been debating learning it over Solidworks.
For proper accurate technical drawings, Solidworks beats all the others.
What about CATIA v5/v6?
I hope to one day be able to think about almost being able to afford that software. Maybe i'm being to dramatic.
Catia V5 is high caliber compared to other 3D Softwares
Ok here we go.. ICEM Surf, (also by 3DS/Dassault Systemes), Creo Parametric (formerly known as ProE) and how about Microsoft 3D Builder?
You was used with Icon Rhino if you set up hotkey for command i think Rhino will get more faster .
Is Fusion 360 any good? I only use it because it's free
Fusion is awesome, and not just cause it's free.. In this video Solidworks is the only competitor to Fusion.. U might as well go with Tinkercad if OnShape or Rhino interest you .. But personally i love Fusion 360, it's just awesome, very easy to use but also very powerfull software with more features than most ppl will use , similation, cam, etc.. Most AutoDesk software is very good (AutoCad , Maya, 3DS Max, Inventor) and a "industry standard" so to speak, but Solidworks also has a part of that market and some ppl are SW fanboys and some ppl are Autodesk , feature wise i dont think there is a huge diffrence, just what ppl prefer ..
Guys I like Dave.2 let's not bully him
That being said, the constraints and ray tracing in inventor are pretty good, maybe another video comparing that? Also f360 is mostly for CAM.
Last time I used solidworks was like 2008 :P And I was really exited from stress simulator
Because it was a race against time I suggested to test solidedge to.
I have inventor at home but my employer uses solidworks. It isn't part of my job but it would be nice to learn solidworks to improve advancement opportunities.
If you are proficient in inventor you will have no difficulties at migrating over to SW, I would highly recommend doing so, as long as you can get a license you'll never look back.
I'd be happy to do some tutorials but it seems that whenever people see a work-flow that isn't their own they get twisted and post negative comments, its tough to see ay :(.
I like Rhino, but I've been using it since I was a kid, so I'm used to it. I also like SolidWorks. Those of you saying "why not Fusion 360" I must respond and ask why you like it so much. It's a bit confusing to use, and the construction methodologies it forces you to use are a bit constricting. I like the freeform modeling Rhino allows. Maybe I'm just not used to Fusion 360 though.
I'm in agreement, I would need to use fusion for quite a while to have any relevant opinion on it.
Just like a number of others, I've got to say, why no Autodesk Inventor?
I don't have license, and a trial isn't enough time to get familiar with a package like that.
I work with Rhino daily for jewellery design, there are definatly quicker ways to model, fillet curves before lofting to avoid all that trimming.
I would appreciate and details greatly, this issue is such a pain in the arse.
David Ledger
In the example where you had difficulty I would have created the top and bottom curves for the cylinder with the square box too, choose rounded corners, then from the front view raise the curves to the hight you want. Switch back to the front view and use the project tool on the base curve to copy it on to you base surface. Use the trim tool to create an opening in the base using that curve. Create one profile curve between the top and bottom line's and use the sweep2 command, no fillets needed. Rhino is terrible at handling fillets, I have about 6000 hours of rhino under my belt now, most people don't have that kind of time, but it's part of my job. It is an extremely powerful surface modeler, of you add t-splines you can model fantastic organic shapes as well.
Square box tool, sorry for the typing errors, sent from my phone, small keys.
That seems to make sense. Certainly faster, not too much though, thanks for the tip :D
Is there anything Dave2 can't do?
Version control solutions?
sccs, rcs, cvs, svn, arch, tla, git ;)
Only used GIT and SVN, I'm pretty noob at the rest.
It was just the list of version control systems I used (or was forced to use). You can safely ignore everything but git. If some project still uses svn, use git-svn to use it. ;)
Is FreeCAD any good?
MaxSantos it's got a pretty tough learning curve and when you run into conflicts with constraints that make the drawing unresolvable can be hard to see what needs to be fixed. Personally use onshape because of convenience of access everywhere, can use it on my Linux laptop or Windows desktop or Android phone and the things I model tend to be simple enough to be easy and fast to do in onshape. I know solid works name and know it is good for more advanced stress and fluid dynamic modelling but just not stuff I need to model parts for my electric skateboard or quadcopter or printer... These are all hobbies and guess and check method of testing works fine since I'm not developing products for other consumers. A video like this leave out all the reasons to pick something, a few sample models doesn't really tell you how you can use a thing in the real world (fun to show friends and family models right from my phone)
Shaun Husain Thanks. Its a shame that FreeCAD gone with a different workflow (from what i read). I don't know any of them, but i'm not willing to invest that time learning something that will make it harder to change to other softwares.
Yeah its great! I think its a little jaring though, its a little like having a dozen different programs which you select with a dropdown menu.
Would love to see Blender put to a similar test.
I'm not very familiar with blender, would take some time, but there have been lots of comments about that :)
No love for Alibre ?
Does anyone know the price of Solid Edge for single user? Siemens website sucks.
Around 3.5k (EUR). This was the price for a small company couple years ago.
Blender anyone?
IMO too confusing for simple modeling without having to learn a bunch of key commands, and the quirks of the program itself etc. Fusion 360 beats it on so many levels. It is interesting and useful for non-CAD work.
The most powerful tool is the one that you have mastered. I don't think you have any of these mastered which is the main problem with your video. I would suggest that you work on your modeling skills and focus on one tool. If you are doing engineering type work, SolidWorks is probably the best choice. Just learn how to use it. Keep going! I have faith that someday you will know how to model!
digisparks is free and great for mechanical and pcb electrical design
How about Blender ?
got it.
I use Rhino for freeform optics design. It's the only CAD package available that has good enough surface modelling tools to do it. Most other tools are focused on mechanical design and engineering use and simply do not have flexible and accurate enough B-spline surface modelling. It's no coincidence that Rhino is also the defacto tool for modelling ship hulls. Many of the same issues. I think maybe the only other tool that could potentially have the correct surface modelling feature is Catia. Rhino can be scripted from Python too, which is critical for designing more complex optic surfaces.
My point is that you need to choose the right tool for your task. Each of these tools has a niche. I think the mechanical design area has many good choices. However smaller, more unusual design domains usually have one or maybe tools available that are suitable.
You are calling a sweep-operation loft.
Where's Inventor?
Lack of a license made that difficult, I'd need to be familiar with the software before testing it, I've never had a license of Inventor and a trail wouldn't do it justice.
I agree with many ppl here and as a Fusion 360 and Inventor user, i feel this is a pretty poor test of Cad software, SW is more a competitor to Autodesk solutions
Agreed, that is its direct competitor with inventor, not really fusion 360. This video wasn't to inform people on the choice between inventor, solid works, solid edge, ironcad etc. I wanted to show people the differences, how even within the field of product design the decision of cad package or even the category of cad package isn't obvious. They are three very different packages and three very different price points which achieve the same outcomes, albeit sometimes with a huge amount of effort :).
Check out what Rhino can help you with
www.udemy.com/rhino-3d-tutorials-from-beginner-level-to-advanced-level/learn/v4/overview
Yeah, fusion 360 is what all the cool kids are using... How about comparing KiCAD, Eagle, and something else
Fusion 360 is accesible and does everything including CAM, solidworks/rhino is ridiculously expensive and doesn't do what fusion 360 does.
Autocad is a great tool for learning!
Solidworks is way more than just a 3d modeling tool like fusion 360 and there main focus lays in the professional market.
Once anyone gains access to solidworks, you won't want to be within miles of fusion 360. It like comparing google sheets to excel. Inventor is also a decent tool as they essentially ripped off solidworks UI, and inventor is free for students. I would highly discourage anyone from touch fusion unless they really had no other option.
It's CAM is shit. If you are actually fabricating parts, bad free CAM costs more than a $500 CAM package.
Hehe, last time I used Rhino was like 1999
Rhino has improved ALOT since 1999. It has new subdivision modelling features.. you can check a demo here: th-cam.com/video/gXXNqKFd4B8/w-d-xo.html
Cheers
I think your experience with rhino made this a little biased toward it
I'm most experienced with solidworks, but lately been using rhino once again. I would expect some bias to exist, tough to entirely ignore my own internal bias.
This is a really nice comparison, but it's a little unfair to compare these tools in this way without being more proficient in each of them. I'll echo what others are saying too, Fusion360 would have been a good addition, especially with it coming from the holders of Eagle. I use Solidworks nearly daily, but the moment drawings and BOMs are not garbage in Fusion360, I expect to shift entirely to Fusion360. (Been saying this for two years... still waiting...)
Yeah, lots of people want to see 360, that is software I'm inexperienced with I couldn't really do it justice and I also couldn't design a test to show an issue.
Hard to know where to improve without feedback, why do you say I'm inexperienced?
Nice channel btw, liking your videos so far :)
Hi David, thank you. Sorry, I worded that poorly, I meant an imbalance of proficiency and I'm probably going to muck up the explanation. First, I know nothing about Rhino and Onshape, and that being said, I can only follow along closely with the Solidworks examples, and those could be tightened up. I say this only because you are comparing time. You are clearly not inexperienced, as you using Solidworks with a proficiency that exceeds folks I work with who use Solidworks daily, so we are in the domain of diminishing returns. Reading through the first few pages of comments below, it's impossible to satisfy everyone if doing a comparison. (Maybe the closest would be to put out the challenge for others to do better with the package of their choice.) In fear of sounding like a fan boy, consider spending some time with F360, which has many of the features of Solidworks Premium (simulation, feature recognition, CAM, etc.) without the expense, and direct modeling that looks similar to Rhino. I'm an independent, so value, cost-to-useful-features, is the metric I care most about. I would love to see someone dive into F360 with Eagle, experienced or not. (I've been using Solidworks and Circuit Studio.) Hope that helps. Again, sorry for the misunderstanding, and keep up the amazing work!
Please don't say Onshape is free, because it really isn't. You can use it for free, but absolutely everything you create is shared with anyone, so you have no privacy. To keep your work for yourself, you need to buy the Pro plan.
That was said in the video I believe. Your right of-course regarding the sharing of content, this simply wasn't an issue for me when just modeling electrical components, to me that isn't a compromise in the product because I would happily share component models anyway.
Sure, in many instances sharing is just fine, but not always. And having to switch to another CAD whenever you want to keep your stuff to yourself is a major nuisance, so for me Onshape is not an option. And as mentioned by others, you really should have included Fusion 360 in this comparison.
FYI, Fusion has a similar constraint - if you make more than certain fairly low amount annually (gross, i.e. before taxes and everything), you have no right to use the free license anymore. There few other constraints like that. Make sure to check the EULA or you may get a surprise visit from the local BSA at some point :( It pretty much rules the free license out for most except non-for-profit hobbyists.
Also the other problem with these tools (but mostly Fusion) are forced updates and bugs in them - if I was to use this in some situation for customer work, it would be a nightmare. We are using Fusion at work for pre-processing some CAD from clients (a non-critical function) and we had updates break our scripts and workflow on several occasions already. Basically the software is usable only if you agree to be an unpaid beta tester (and in our case, we are actually paying for it!).
Sure, if you make more than 100k USD/yr, Fusion is no longer free, but that's besides my point. As a hobbyist/maker, I still do not want to share everything I do, and that rules out Onshape. Fusion is by no means perfect, and as you say, bugs come and go, but all software has bugs from time to time.
Yeah if you are making 100K+ you can afford the software and use it as a write off.. Like GE does to avoid paying taxes on billions of profits.
"A360 is temporarily offline. This is affecting all online workflows and we’re working to bring A360 back online ASAP." -> Second complete outage is this year I think. You simply cannot trust the cloud based apps for anything important.
there is an 'R' in electrical... 0:58
Autodesk software is free if you're not using it to make a profit. Just use that.
Its not reliable comparison on component drawing time,
because, you may be more eligible for rhino than solidworks,
I dont accept such a comparison.
Fusion 360
I can't understand what's the point of this video really. Can't understand why the onshape was so slow in first excercise. You could use exactly the same features as in solidworks. And it doesn't prove anything, maybe only that surface modeling in onshape isn't great (but it's getting better).
I'll stick with Alibre
Solidworks electrical!
Rhino or other programs are more risky than for assembly . So solıd is more slower than is those program.
I have Rhino and Solidworks. For any kind of product design and prototyping, it's SolidWorks hands down. It's relatively user-friendly, it's easy to change any of the parametric values and update the model (and SolidWorks will tell you if there's a problem). Constraining can be fiddly, but often it's a case of not adding them intelligently. Plus it also has many options for creating standard features, such as sheet metal bends, structural members, injection moulding parts, etc. and even processes for design optimization and basic FEA (though you should probably use Abaqus if you want to do something properly for the latter). You've also got a renderer for high-quality images and you can create animated videos by keyframing constraint properties.
Rhino, on the other hand, is far closer to general 3D modelling software compared to SolidWorks which is closer to pure CAD. The command-based system can be difficult to use and it doesn't have a lot of the features SolidWorks has. You can make things quickly with it, but trying to edit them afterwards is a real pain. However, it does have Grasshopper, a powerful block based pipeline that allows you to do all kinds of complex and interesting operations on objects. It's great for analysing a 3D scan, or generating toolpaths for manufacture (which is done at a far lower level than many CAM packages), or creating complicated solids programmatically. While SolidWorks does have some pretty decent patterning features, it pales in comparison to the complexity that Grasshopper can do.
You should compare assemblies and drawings. 1-part is meaningless compared to Revision control, communicating drawings to a vendor, and reusing parts in other assemblies.
Title says "Modelling Electical Components". Electical? Shouldn't that read "Electrical"??
Most definitely it should, :)