I just switched to Onshape at my mechanical engineering dayjob in January, after using ProE/Creo almost daily since 1997. I absolutely love it. I too couldn't see going back to a desktop based CAD system again. I also used SDRC Ideas in the early 2000's (before it was bought by NX). I think Ideas was better than ProE at the time, but haven't used NX since then to know how it has come along. All the CAD programs can do about the same thing, but Onshape removes a lot of the headaches dealing with the IT stuff, the backups, the software installations, the software updates, the big GPU needed, the middlemen sales vulchers, etc. They also have a free hobby version. Highly, highly, highly recommend. I have zero affiliation with any CAD vendor.
Recent subscriber and a commercial pilot who has test flown aircraft. I love your design, skills, and all of your info videos have really made me interested in the final product and statistics.
Great to se you use Onshape for a project this size. I have been using Onshape privately for 4 years to, designing stuff I make in my shop, and I really like it and found it easy to learn. I have noe other CAD experience, so all the informative videos have been really helpful . I am happy to see that they partner up with other vendors for things like CAM functionality, as I will need this in the future. My only complaint with Onshape is that they don't have a license between the free version I am using and the really expensive professional license. With the free license, all my designs are available for all to see and download. I really, really wish they would change their mind and take care of the little guys a bit better, although I am very grateful that I can use the software for free. Many of the little guys grow up one day, and become important customers. I just miss that transition between free and full fledged pro license. Thank you for the video
I used OnShape for two years. I did not have previous 3d CAD experience. It took nearly a year for me to get up to basic ability and get product out. This was done as a retirement program I designed for myself. The one thing that sold me for OnShape was that it was, at the time, the only fully capable 3d CAD available on an iPad. I did do well with it. I am not continuing with it as I am aging out of any work.
One thing I would add to this is that for people trying to learn CAD software for the first time as I did with on shape and also having previous attempts with Creo, on shape has many more tutorials and a great learning center for learning how to create stuff in onshape. Along with that dude it's online nature that can also be used to have multiple people work on a dock without having to send it back and forth for my FTC team has been able to speed up the work on cadding once we transfer over to edge just due to the lack of needing to save and upload files to a Google drive before else can work on them. Along with that to the learning center and he's all views has a very low burning curve where in under a month of working on it I was the de facto cadder on my FTC team. Overall it's a great software and I'm really happy that other people think so too.
Been using NX for so long.. too many button presses,,, expensive .. I saw pitch for onshape years ago .. great to see they are doing so well and helping engineers ...
Nice video. I've been using OnShape for about a year and a half and love it. I make carbon fiber car parts and use it to model little brackets, or jigs, or things around my shop to 3d print. So not nearly as extensively as you, but its been extremely helpful.
I signed up for the free version of OnShape. I need to get better at it before I commit any money. I have the most hours in CATIA V5R26 which is from schooling and my work at Boeing. I have SolidWorks 2020-2021 EDU at home and Fusion 360. I can use all three of these with very little if no issue. I just have to learn how to ask OnShape to do what I want it to do. =o) - Good work guys, glad to see the progress.
I started using Onshape a good 5 years ago, and I still use it from time to time today. I'm a huge proponent of the software and talk it up every chance I get. I've also been a Solidworks user for over 10 years and use that in my full time occupation still today. Using my experience as a reference, I don't think I would have considered trying to design something as complex as an airplane in Onshape. While its part modeling and part studios are great and the accessibility and collaborative capabilities are awesome, I dislike how it treats assemblies and at times I find the software to be simply too slow. Additionally, while the ability for 3rd party scripts is very neat, having to essentially rely on them for key functionally even this many years into the development of Onshape is a turn off. There are quite a few features and functions that any professional CAD user would expect to be in the software from day one that are still not available, despite being highly upvoted on the forum's feature suggestion/request boards for years. As much as I love Onshape, there are times when to me it still feels like a bit of toy.
I definitely see cloud based CADD sharing in the future! I’m not into airplanes yet, but working on old vehicle engines is a pain when one has to either experiment or search online for someone who has done the exact combination of any engine component system. Every year it seems new designs for engines emerge and it can take a while to figure out the changes. I expect the same can be said for airplanes. Having direct access to a specific model airplane will save the customer an enormous amount of money and time. Awesome plane! Keep up the work!
Onshape is truly amazing. Designed an Hx assembly using just my iPhone on home WiFi to access the cloud. Didn't think it would be possible until I began the weekend project. Took just 4 hours to design the initial concept and a further two weeks to complete a '100 part plus' assembly. Typically I use CATIA in my profession, run off of a $30,000 CAD work station. Onshape is disrupting most* of the capability I use on a daily basis. * (not all though, the complex stuff like advanced surface manipulation, is still the remit of the likes of CATIA).
I just retired after 35 years in the IT world. You may have even understated the cost and complexity of a cad environment. The hardware (3- servers +, X- workstations) and full time IT support person, to do it right, is very expensive alone before you do your first drawing on your first project!! Then add the software @ ~$5k/seat!! I'll have to look at Onshape, but it was likely a really good move on your part for many reasons! JMHO of course... --gary
I can't imagine ever using any software package that resides on a desktop, doesn't matter what the application is. It's 2021, not 1995. Thanks for the overview of onshape. The plane you guys are designing is insanely awesome. Thanks for the review and excited to see the first flight.
You are cool guys! This is very progressive way for designing new aircrafts and other cool things! Hope to build it in Russia. Thanks for your job guys
Just now came across this vid. I'm a jig and fixture maker that's been using onshape since 2016 as well. The company has investigated the use of inventor because that's what the main engineers use. I was initially excited but It feels really clunky. It's the same way I was doing this stuff for my cad classes in high school. In the 90s. Traditional desigers love to trash onshape in places like Reddit but I'm not backing down. The muti part modelling is just better. Plain and simple. Great vid thanks for sharing!
one of these days Imma make myself some money and buy this plane A few years ago, the first time I saw this plane, I fell in love with it. I'm 17 and will buy one before I'm 30
I love onShape, used it heavily for years, and prefer it over Fusion360. That said, F360s CAM integration is the only thing that was lacking from onShape and is the only reason I continue to use (and pay for) Fusion360.
As you move forward into the production phase of developing DarkAero One, can OnShape show you and the customer the version of parts and assemblies that you shipped to that particular customer (including any updated part you sent them since)? I’ve played with your sample assembly proceedures and I agree that it is a big advantage to the builder to be able to access the 3D CAD files during assembly.
Hi Rick! I think what we would do is just share the particular design revision with the customers who purchased that revision. Tracking updated parts would require some attention but could be accomplished as well.
@@DarkAeroInc That’s probably a reasonable way to go. Speaking as a design engineer who spent 30 years supporting my products through years of design changes, this can be a big issue as your company grows.
I was checking out your range in website, 2200 miles is far, too bad it couldn’t make the jump from California to Hawaii, cool plane and can’t wait till flight testing.
I would kill to be able to pull up the CAD drawings for my RV-14 build. It would make it so much easier to figure out what goes where for the first time builder.
@@DarkAeroInc Yes, but with the speed of "slow" cloud servers. Fast desktop computers nowadays work in the 4+ GHz range. Servers probably 2.5 GHz max (to conserve energy they run at the most efficient speed, which is much lower than the peak speed available on desktop processors). You are also at the mercy of how much computing power Onshape allocates to you, which on peak hours can be quite low (we have experienced that!). And there is nothing you can do but wait! And you know: in business time is money.
This is great and informative as SolidWORKS users here it is good to see we have an option to look into after hearing you clearly share your usage and applications of the software. Lance & Patrick.
Hi. I’m new to your channel. I find your wing interestingly temptingly Compelling from a design standpoint.Thank you for creating this channel .Good Luck .
Nice! Question How you make the layup drawings details for make the carbon parts parts? The on shape has composite feature for modeling layer by layer. Or you modeling a solid part and make the lay up drawing on the what way?
I'd be curious to see the intellectual property policy with them. Do you make them sign a non disclosure agreement to store your IP? How do you know they're not selling those inventions/designs?
If I were going to get to the point with a side business where I needed dedicated CAD software I would definitely go with Onshape. At work we use Autodesk Inventor.
@@user-px1wj2uv3r I started out on Inventor, but now use Onshape for most stuff. Here's my two cents: Inventor pros: Very high graphics performance with very large assemblies, many analysis tools, larger user base in case I get into freelancing with it, well-integrated with the whole Autodesk suite Inventor cons: Buggy, unstable, and slow in weird places, can't run natively in Linux, version and dependency control of files is a nightmare, UI is cluttered and inefficient, tools are clunky and less reliable, and lots of things are tedious/not automated, all bug reports and feedback are ignored (in my experience as non-paying education user) Onshape pros: Consistently responsive (UI, opening projects, etc.), very, very reliable, excellent dependency and version control, simplicity and power (how many steps it takes to do something), robustness with large projects, and cross-platform compatibility, very responsive developers & all bug reports are taken seriously (in my experience as non-paying education user) Onshape cons: Graphics performance can drop on large assemblies (1,000+ parts), though this is on integrated graphics (the rest of the system does stay responsive), no built-in simulation (but this seems to be on the brink of changing soon), internet connection required, missing some sheet metal tools TL;DR: Inventor is an older program with the associated baggage and benefits, while Onshape is an up-and-coming hotshot that's very productive to work in, but is missing some specific tools
@@justinhough5697 Sorry for the late reply-- I haven't used Fusion 360 much. I've tried some smaller modeling projects in it, but I was unable to finish them because of the graphics falling apart and features failing even after trying to define them a half dozen different ways. To be honest, Autodesk's ShapeManager kernel in Fusion 360 and Inventor is generally not great for complex geometry. Many other CAD systems (NX, Solid Edge, SolidWorks, Onshape...) use Parasolid, and I've found them to handle more difficult geometry more effectively. Fusion 360 also tends to hang and crash when I try to import my existing projects. I believe the size and complexity of projects I work on are outside of the scope of Fusion 360, so it isn't really fair for me to ding it for this. Autodesk seems to be targeting it at simpler, smaller projects and as a CAM/analysis/generative design tool for individual parts, and the stuff I do tends to be multi-thousand part assemblies and mechanical integration, so it's not really the right fit for me. Basically, lots of cool tools in one package, but crumples on larger projects, so not the right software for me.
I would like to know more about the longevity of carbon fiber aircraft. We still fly metal aircraft from the 50's, even though most of those aircraft have been tied down outside most of that time. What can be expected from a carbon fiber aircraft, when it is understood that the resin is broken down by the sun's UV?
Aluminum is 100% recyclable, carbon fiber is almost 0%. On carbon fiber you absolutely need an UV protection, which is the paint. Of course carbon fiber is more sexy than Aluminum.
@@builditwithadam exactly LOL Onshape has +'s and F360 has +'s ... i am not deep enough into either to make any serious choice. Right now giving F360 full attention and maybe 2023 look at Onshape ... that for a year and then HOPEFULLY freeze on one for the rest of my natural life !!!!! (still yaaaaaa)😊
Cloud based data storage is good and bad. You need to know all the legal details about your data storage. Additionally it should be clearly stated who else has access to your creative business work. Keep in mind what has happened in the past few years concerning the tech giants and social media. Your data could easily become the property of a corporate government agency or possibly accessible to other competitors. Many historical examples persist on individual businesses information being stolen. Only a word to the wise. Great 👍🏽 information 👏
It would be cool to have a “next-generation” Velocity kit with perfect-fit parts from CNC-cut plugs. Imagine how quickly an RG strake would go together if the bulkheads, baffles and wheel wells all came out of the mold in their final size and fit into grooves molded into the strake halves.
Thanks for the video! I was really looking for alternatives to the industry standard programs like Solidworks and Autodesk solutions. They feel very clunky and often times are unreliable for me. I think that your video helps to understand the positive aspects of Onshape, but I would also like to know if there is anything you feel like is missing or is just not working as well as in other similar programs?
Glad you say that, I had the same feeling when i used Onshape (i designed a hull shape for a sailing race boat). I have a Solidworks background too. But when I see what these guys are doing with Onshape and the trust they put into it, Im ready to reconsider it to use it again.
The seats are up to customer preference. There is room for a center arm rest but we just extended the seats inward where the center arm rest would be to give more room and to keep the cabin more open.
Hey guys I noticed that you are using imperial fasteners is there a specific reason for not using metric? Out of interest would it make engineering more difficult to do imperial over metric due to the added complexity.
I understand you can look at designs on a phone, but does using onshape take away the requirement to have a high performance computer to create your designs?
Great question. Yes! I didn’t mention this benefit in the video but you do not need a high end CAD workstation to run Onshape. The heavy computing is offloaded to the cloud so you can get away with a really simple computer. We run it on regular laptops.
No chance of hidden clauses that give them rights to your information? With the way the leaders of the software industry play that would be my concern.
@@user-px1wj2uv3r Absolutely. The best value for me was the time unlimited free use for projects in the public domain. I could test everything out that I needed at my own pace. In my experience, 30 days is not long enough to determine if a CAD package is right for my business. I have too much demand on my time to adequately test new software in 30 days. I love OnShape now because I could take my time to learn it.
Not sure what your startup experience is like, but I'm an individual with a head full of ideas I want to implement and cad is very expensive. I have access to some cad, but very few of the ideas that swim in my head are expressed in that cad. The cost of engineering grade cad for someone that would be classed a tinkerer is significant. Finite element analysis seems out of reach, not to mention fluid dynamics needed for aircraft. Not that VCs are knocking on the door, but I'm reluctant to take other people's money prior to proving out some of the ideas and I'm not happy to make the designs public given my slow progress. I don't want someone else to run away with them or take over the project. I suppose we are lucky in the beginning in that few others are convinced of the value of our insights. Does Onshape have a ramp program for tinkerers? Something between open design and a tool for a full time engineer? I can only work part time and even that is slow with my growing familiarity with the tools. The key for a ramp program is to develop customers who cannot yet justify the expense. When I got my first patent I expected to pay about $500, but ended up paying over $5,000 because I just did not understand the subtle meaning of patent language. Similarly, if I can express a unique aircraft that possesses capabilities no body else has, I will find ways to build the craft and to pay for the tools.
I fully understand the benefits you've listed about operating under the Cloud (e.g. easiness & safety), but, as a wise man used to say, "also keep one bird on your hand"! I'm from TX and recently had my reality check with a frozen week, when the whole system shut down, electricity, phone, internet. This time was a sum of act of God and political stupidity, but the next time can be whatever! Because ATMs can be closed, people hold physical gold. Because internet can be closed, how DarkAero protect its proprietary asset? Just in the Cloud?!
Money at the bank is more safe than cash? . 😅😅 Well I am obviously German 😅😅 and I feel the same about cloud based designing cad... I would love to have fusion 360 as a complete offline product.. If the internet crashes ( well here in Germany we have very bad internet because of corruption... ähh I mean lobbying) (.. 😅😅 Just typical German things) I still could use the design tools
Meh. Any long term support software that's cloud-based is extremely dangerous. What happens ten years from now when OnShape no longer supports the software or has gone out of business? Their license servers will be down, so you'll be out of luck. It's a very simplified argument for youtube comments, but the core issue is there: if your licensing is cloud based, your ability to open their proprietary CAD formats isn't a sure thing. Ask all the businesses that recently got screwed by Fusion 360's significant changes to their licensing terms and functionality.
All the professional CAD programs are pretty much subscripion now. If you don't pay yearly, you can't open the program or access your files, even if your files are on your local harddrive. If Onshape folds, you can export as STEP and bring your files into another CAD system. Same thing you would have to do if Solidworks folded.
@@nickp4793 STEP files do not carry the features history. So they are NOT your parametric design. Which is gone forever. You can export a pig as a sausage, but for sure it is not a pig anymore.
@@marcobassini3576 If Creo folded, your only choice would be to export as STEP, same as if SW or NX folded. You'd lose the history tree in all of those cases. Onshape being cloud based is not any worse off than the other programs. That was my point.
Great work DarkAero team!!
Having grown up on solidworks and switched to onshape five years ago, I’ve gotta say it’s fantastic.
Same! OnShape is so intuitive that I literally haven't had to look up anything yet.
I just switched to Onshape at my mechanical engineering dayjob in January, after using ProE/Creo almost daily since 1997. I absolutely love it. I too couldn't see going back to a desktop based CAD system again. I also used SDRC Ideas in the early 2000's (before it was bought by NX). I think Ideas was better than ProE at the time, but haven't used NX since then to know how it has come along. All the CAD programs can do about the same thing, but Onshape removes a lot of the headaches dealing with the IT stuff, the backups, the software installations, the software updates, the big GPU needed, the middlemen sales vulchers, etc. They also have a free hobby version. Highly, highly, highly recommend. I have zero affiliation with any CAD vendor.
Recent subscriber and a commercial pilot who has test flown aircraft. I love your design, skills, and all of your info videos have really made me interested in the final product and statistics.
I love hearing customers realizing the benefits of this amazing offering (and yes there is a free version for non-commercial use).
Great to se you use Onshape for a project this size. I have been using Onshape privately for 4 years to, designing stuff I make in my shop, and I really like it and found it easy to learn. I have noe other CAD experience, so all the informative videos have been really helpful . I am happy to see that they partner up with other vendors for things like CAM functionality, as I will need this in the future. My only complaint with Onshape is that they don't have a license between the free version I am using and the really expensive professional license. With the free license, all my designs are available for all to see and download. I really, really wish they would change their mind and take care of the little guys a bit better, although I am very grateful that I can use the software for free. Many of the little guys grow up one day, and become important customers. I just miss that transition between free and full fledged pro license.
Thank you for the video
Learning it myself now. I work in a R&D dept and they went with OnShape. I love assemblies and mates. Files/data is just like working in G-Suite.
I used OnShape for two years. I did not have previous 3d CAD experience. It took nearly a year for me to get up to basic ability and get product out. This was done as a retirement program I designed for myself. The one thing that sold me for OnShape was that it was, at the time, the only fully capable 3d CAD available on an iPad. I did do well with it. I am not continuing with it as I am aging out of any work.
One thing I would add to this is that for people trying to learn CAD software for the first time as I did with on shape and also having previous attempts with Creo, on shape has many more tutorials and a great learning center for learning how to create stuff in onshape. Along with that dude it's online nature that can also be used to have multiple people work on a dock without having to send it back and forth for my FTC team has been able to speed up the work on cadding once we transfer over to edge just due to the lack of needing to save and upload files to a Google drive before else can work on them. Along with that to the learning center and he's all views has a very low burning curve where in under a month of working on it I was the de facto cadder on my FTC team. Overall it's a great software and I'm really happy that other people think so too.
Been using NX for so long.. too many button presses,,, expensive .. I saw pitch for onshape years ago .. great to see they are doing so well and helping engineers ...
Nice video. I've been using OnShape for about a year and a half and love it. I make carbon fiber car parts and use it to model little brackets, or jigs, or things around my shop to 3d print. So not nearly as extensively as you, but its been extremely helpful.
Hey the new weekly Shop VLOG on the DarkAero Members Only You Tube Channel was Fantastic!
I signed up for the free version of OnShape. I need to get better at it before I commit any money. I have the most hours in CATIA V5R26 which is from schooling and my work at Boeing. I have SolidWorks 2020-2021 EDU at home and Fusion 360. I can use all three of these with very little if no issue. I just have to learn how to ask OnShape to do what I want it to do. =o) - Good work guys, glad to see the progress.
I started using Onshape a good 5 years ago, and I still use it from time to time today. I'm a huge proponent of the software and talk it up every chance I get. I've also been a Solidworks user for over 10 years and use that in my full time occupation still today.
Using my experience as a reference, I don't think I would have considered trying to design something as complex as an airplane in Onshape. While its part modeling and part studios are great and the accessibility and collaborative capabilities are awesome, I dislike how it treats assemblies and at times I find the software to be simply too slow. Additionally, while the ability for 3rd party scripts is very neat, having to essentially rely on them for key functionally even this many years into the development of Onshape is a turn off. There are quite a few features and functions that any professional CAD user would expect to be in the software from day one that are still not available, despite being highly upvoted on the forum's feature suggestion/request boards for years.
As much as I love Onshape, there are times when to me it still feels like a bit of toy.
I definitely see cloud based CADD sharing in the future! I’m not into airplanes yet, but working on old vehicle engines is a pain when one has to either experiment or search online for someone who has done the exact combination of any engine component system. Every year it seems new designs for engines emerge and it can take a while to figure out the changes. I expect the same can be said for airplanes. Having direct access to a specific model airplane will save the customer an enormous amount of money and time. Awesome plane! Keep up the work!
Onshape is truly amazing.
Designed an Hx assembly using just my iPhone on home WiFi to access the cloud.
Didn't think it would be possible until I began the weekend project.
Took just 4 hours to design the initial concept and a further two weeks to complete a '100 part plus' assembly.
Typically I use CATIA in my profession, run off of a $30,000 CAD work station.
Onshape is disrupting most* of the capability I use on a daily basis.
* (not all though, the complex stuff like advanced surface manipulation, is still the remit of the likes of CATIA).
I was hesitant at first because I thought Onshape wouldn't be able to do the stuff I needed but your projects make mine look like childs play.
I just retired after 35 years in the IT world. You may have even understated the cost and complexity of a cad environment. The hardware (3- servers +, X- workstations) and full time IT support person, to do it right, is very expensive alone before you do your first drawing on your first project!! Then add the software @ ~$5k/seat!! I'll have to look at Onshape, but it was likely a really good move on your part for many reasons! JMHO of course... --gary
I can't imagine ever using any software package that resides on a desktop, doesn't matter what the application is. It's 2021, not 1995. Thanks for the overview of onshape. The plane you guys are designing is insanely awesome. Thanks for the review and excited to see the first flight.
One of my favorite parts of Onshape is the “custom feature” tool
You are cool guys! This is very progressive way for designing new aircrafts and other cool things! Hope to build it in Russia. Thanks for your job guys
Yes please , hurry up . Moscow calling )
Just now came across this vid. I'm a jig and fixture maker that's been using onshape since 2016 as well. The company has investigated the use of inventor because that's what the main engineers use. I was initially excited but It feels really clunky. It's the same way I was doing this stuff for my cad classes in high school. In the 90s. Traditional desigers love to trash onshape in places like Reddit but I'm not backing down. The muti part modelling is just better. Plain and simple. Great vid thanks for sharing!
Saw some one mention it in a videos comment section. I am happy that I didn't dismiss it. Great software!
Love that you guys are sharing your process and your tools!
one of these days Imma make myself some money and buy this plane
A few years ago, the first time I saw this plane, I fell in love with it. I'm 17 and will buy one before I'm 30
Awesome guys! Just realized you were in Madison. I’m based down in Kenosha.
I love onShape, used it heavily for years, and prefer it over Fusion360. That said, F360s CAM integration is the only thing that was lacking from onShape and is the only reason I continue to use (and pay for) Fusion360.
As you move forward into the production phase of developing DarkAero One, can OnShape show you and the customer the version of parts and assemblies that you shipped to that particular customer (including any updated part you sent them since)?
I’ve played with your sample assembly proceedures and I agree that it is a big advantage to the builder to be able to access the 3D CAD files during assembly.
Hi Rick! I think what we would do is just share the particular design revision with the customers who purchased that revision. Tracking updated parts would require some attention but could be accomplished as well.
@@DarkAeroInc That’s probably a reasonable way to go. Speaking as a design engineer who spent 30 years supporting my products through years of design changes, this can be a big issue as your company grows.
Thanks for the video! Onshape is a great tool, I'm using it since it's beta version and it's gone a long way since then.
OnShape looks great. I wish they would offer a free license for hobbyists like Fusion 360.
They do
Yes they do its completely free. Its really nice. I have a free hobby account, and also a paid account for my dayjob.
Thanks for the info. I hadn't seen the free license when I poked around their website; I guess they don't want to make it too easy to find :-)
Outstanding aviation project! Love what you guys are accomplishing... Thank you for sharing... I enjoy watching your channel... Best wishes... Cheers
I was checking out your range in website, 2200 miles is far, too bad it couldn’t make the jump from California to Hawaii, cool plane and can’t wait till flight testing.
I would kill to be able to pull up the CAD drawings for my RV-14 build. It would make it so much easier to figure out what goes where for the first time builder.
Its a really good software for people who don't have an access to high end computers
It’s also good for use on high end computers too! 😉🤓
@@DarkAeroInc Yes, but with the speed of "slow" cloud servers. Fast desktop computers nowadays work in the 4+ GHz range. Servers probably 2.5 GHz max (to conserve energy they run at the most efficient speed, which is much lower than the peak speed available on desktop processors). You are also at the mercy of how much computing power Onshape allocates to you, which on peak hours can be quite low (we have experienced that!).
And there is nothing you can do but wait! And you know: in business time is money.
This is great and informative as SolidWORKS users here it is good to see we have an option to look into after hearing you clearly share your usage and applications of the software. Lance & Patrick.
Nice vid. How is the surface modeling compared to the Solidworks one. We're currently using SW and in doubt if to switch.
Hi. I’m new to your channel. I find your wing interestingly temptingly Compelling from a design standpoint.Thank you for creating this channel .Good Luck .
I wonder why the EAA has not reached out to Onshape? They should drop Solidworks and switch to Onshape
Nice! Question How you make the layup drawings details for make the carbon parts parts? The on shape has composite feature for modeling layer by layer. Or you modeling a solid part and make the lay up drawing on the what way?
How does it compare to Fusion 360, is it a none buggy & actually gets fixed by the Devs?
I'd be curious to see the intellectual property policy with them. Do you make them sign a non disclosure agreement to store your IP? How do you know they're not selling those inventions/designs?
If I were going to get to the point with a side business where I needed dedicated CAD software I would definitely go with Onshape. At work we use Autodesk Inventor.
What would you say is the biggest trade off between Autodesk and OnShape?
@@user-px1wj2uv3r I started out on Inventor, but now use Onshape for most stuff. Here's my two cents:
Inventor pros: Very high graphics performance with very large assemblies, many analysis tools, larger user base in case I get into freelancing with it, well-integrated with the whole Autodesk suite
Inventor cons: Buggy, unstable, and slow in weird places, can't run natively in Linux, version and dependency control of files is a nightmare, UI is cluttered and inefficient, tools are clunky and less reliable, and lots of things are tedious/not automated, all bug reports and feedback are ignored (in my experience as non-paying education user)
Onshape pros: Consistently responsive (UI, opening projects, etc.), very, very reliable, excellent dependency and version control, simplicity and power (how many steps it takes to do something), robustness with large projects, and cross-platform compatibility, very responsive developers & all bug reports are taken seriously (in my experience as non-paying education user)
Onshape cons: Graphics performance can drop on large assemblies (1,000+ parts), though this is on integrated graphics (the rest of the system does stay responsive), no built-in simulation (but this seems to be on the brink of changing soon), internet connection required, missing some sheet metal tools
TL;DR: Inventor is an older program with the associated baggage and benefits, while Onshape is an up-and-coming hotshot that's very productive to work in, but is missing some specific tools
@@AlnisSmidchens Wow! Thanks for the thorough response!
@@AlnisSmidchens what about Fusion 360?
@@justinhough5697 Sorry for the late reply-- I haven't used Fusion 360 much. I've tried some smaller modeling projects in it, but I was unable to finish them because of the graphics falling apart and features failing even after trying to define them a half dozen different ways. To be honest, Autodesk's ShapeManager kernel in Fusion 360 and Inventor is generally not great for complex geometry. Many other CAD systems (NX, Solid Edge, SolidWorks, Onshape...) use Parasolid, and I've found them to handle more difficult geometry more effectively.
Fusion 360 also tends to hang and crash when I try to import my existing projects. I believe the size and complexity of projects I work on are outside of the scope of Fusion 360, so it isn't really fair for me to ding it for this. Autodesk seems to be targeting it at simpler, smaller projects and as a CAM/analysis/generative design tool for individual parts, and the stuff I do tends to be multi-thousand part assemblies and mechanical integration, so it's not really the right fit for me. Basically, lots of cool tools in one package, but crumples on larger projects, so not the right software for me.
Hi, wonderful job, a question, will this plane be able to tow a glider?
How do you guys do the CAM, what file format are you exporting and what CAM software are you using for the Tormach.
Love from Pakistan. I personally love onshap i've been using it since 2017
ThanQ so much for insights on Onshape.
I would like to know more about the longevity of carbon fiber aircraft. We still fly metal aircraft from the 50's, even though most of those aircraft have been tied down outside most of that time. What can be expected from a carbon fiber aircraft, when it is understood that the resin is broken down by the sun's UV?
Aluminum is 100% recyclable, carbon fiber is almost 0%. On carbon fiber you absolutely need an UV protection, which is the paint. Of course carbon fiber is more sexy than Aluminum.
Are there any plans for winglets on the darkaero? Would look super cool.
0:51 looks more like a 4.5 gen fighter cockpit than a propeller plane.👍
My fight with F360 Vs Onshape is STILL ON .... YAAAAAAAAAAAAA!
Which do you prefer? I’m a huge fan of F360 but I know no one option is perfect.
@@builditwithadam exactly LOL Onshape has +'s and F360 has +'s ... i am not deep enough into either to make any serious choice. Right now giving F360 full attention and maybe 2023 look at Onshape ... that for a year and then HOPEFULLY freeze on one for the rest of my natural life !!!!! (still yaaaaaa)😊
just found this channel from easy composite and now I really wanna build some carbon of my own :(
OnShape has composite layup features? Or your design the composite parts as solid? And how your make the layup drawings for manufacturing?
i just recently started watching a few of your videos, so sorry, if it was already mentioned, but why dont you have wingtips against vortexes?
Thanks for watching Joachim! We touched on that in this video: th-cam.com/video/GrlM3OFhKyM/w-d-xo.html
@@DarkAeroInc thanks alot!
I use free OnShape all the time. But as a hobbyist, there's no way I could afford a licence. That is a hell of a price.
Cloud based data storage is good and bad. You need to know all the legal details about your data storage. Additionally it should be clearly stated who else has access to your creative business work. Keep in mind what has happened in the past few years concerning the tech giants and social media. Your data could easily become the property of a corporate government agency or possibly accessible to other competitors. Many historical examples persist on individual businesses information being stolen. Only a word to the wise. Great 👍🏽 information 👏
do you by any chance know Matt from Sling? Maybe kit planes are a small world...
I needed this
It would be cool to have a “next-generation” Velocity kit with perfect-fit parts from CNC-cut plugs. Imagine how quickly an RG strake would go together if the bulkheads, baffles and wheel wells all came out of the mold in their final size and fit into grooves molded into the strake halves.
Defiantly giving this a try. You guys are a wonderful resource of knowledge and I don’t even like planes 😂
Thanks for the video! I was really looking for alternatives to the industry standard programs like Solidworks and Autodesk solutions. They feel very clunky and often times are unreliable for me. I think that your video helps to understand the positive aspects of Onshape, but I would also like to know if there is anything you feel like is missing or is just not working as well as in other similar programs?
Glad you say that, I had the same feeling when i used Onshape (i designed a hull shape for a sailing race boat). I have a Solidworks background too. But when I see what these guys are doing with Onshape and the trust they put into it, Im ready to reconsider it to use it again.
what CAD had you used before - every CAD I use the CAD is resident on the machine - it goes with you....
Seems there's no room for a center arm rest with those rendered seats right next to each other?
The seats are up to customer preference. There is room for a center arm rest but we just extended the seats inward where the center arm rest would be to give more room and to keep the cabin more open.
@@DarkAeroInc Ahh! Thx!
Hey guys I noticed that you are using imperial fasteners is there a specific reason for not using metric? Out of interest would it make engineering more difficult to do imperial over metric due to the added complexity.
I understand you can look at designs on a phone, but does using onshape take away the requirement to have a high performance computer to create your designs?
Great question. Yes! I didn’t mention this benefit in the video but you do not need a high end CAD workstation to run Onshape. The heavy computing is offloaded to the cloud so you can get away with a really simple computer. We run it on regular laptops.
@@DarkAeroInc that alone would make their price of service worth it. Thank you!
No chance of hidden clauses that give them rights to your information? With the way the leaders of the software industry play that would be my concern.
price is $1500 - $2500+ per year if you will use it for commercial purposes
Advertisement for Onshape..
...or for DarkAero? 🤔 😁
@@DarkAeroInc Simply count how many times you pronounced onshape than darkaero.
Digging into new cad programs is a huge time investment. IMO, paid or unpaid, It’s useful to hear from real engineers building real airplanes.
@@user-px1wj2uv3r Absolutely. The best value for me was the time unlimited free use for projects in the public domain. I could test everything out that I needed at my own pace. In my experience, 30 days is not long enough to determine if a CAD package is right for my business. I have too much demand on my time to adequately test new software in 30 days. I love OnShape now because I could take my time to learn it.
@@mtcru I counted 30 OnShapes vs. 7 DarkAeros (including use of DarkAero1 model name referring to the aircraft).
Not sure what your startup experience is like, but I'm an individual with a head full of ideas I want to implement and cad is very expensive. I have access to some cad, but very few of the ideas that swim in my head are expressed in that cad. The cost of engineering grade cad for someone that would be classed a tinkerer is significant. Finite element analysis seems out of reach, not to mention fluid dynamics needed for aircraft.
Not that VCs are knocking on the door, but I'm reluctant to take other people's money prior to proving out some of the ideas and I'm not happy to make the designs public given my slow progress. I don't want someone else to run away with them or take over the project. I suppose we are lucky in the beginning in that few others are convinced of the value of our insights.
Does Onshape have a ramp program for tinkerers? Something between open design and a tool for a full time engineer? I can only work part time and even that is slow with my growing familiarity with the tools. The key for a ramp program is to develop customers who cannot yet justify the expense. When I got my first patent I expected to pay about $500, but ended up paying over $5,000 because I just did not understand the subtle meaning of patent language. Similarly, if I can express a unique aircraft that possesses capabilities no body else has, I will find ways to build the craft and to pay for the tools.
I like this program because it doesn't seemed tied down to an OS.
Elliot Seguin for Flight Testing!!!!!!!
What is the estimated total price for the whole plane ? And how much cash did you put on the plane since the beginning of the build?
$140-$160k completed. Not sure about the dev costs though.
China parts? Please reconsider.
New here - brilliant - just keen to know your ETCompletion ... first flt
I fully understand the benefits you've listed about operating under the Cloud (e.g. easiness & safety), but, as a wise man used to say, "also keep one bird on your hand"! I'm from TX and recently had my reality check with a frozen week, when the whole system shut down, electricity, phone, internet. This time was a sum of act of God and political stupidity, but the next time can be whatever! Because ATMs can be closed, people hold physical gold. Because internet can be closed, how DarkAero protect its proprietary asset? Just in the Cloud?!
Just say Solidworks, you said it on the previous video 😉😊 I'm still using Solidworks
Money at the bank is more safe than cash? . 😅😅 Well I am obviously German 😅😅 and I feel the same about cloud based designing cad...
I would love to have fusion 360 as a complete offline product.. If the internet crashes ( well here in Germany we have very bad internet because of corruption... ähh I mean lobbying) (.. 😅😅 Just typical German things) I still could use the design tools
Where's the Prototype where's the airplane
If I was them I would not put any server tech the dod uses as a selling feature lmao half the government uses windows xp
you guys realize that this is an ad?
Meh. Any long term support software that's cloud-based is extremely dangerous. What happens ten years from now when OnShape no longer supports the software or has gone out of business? Their license servers will be down, so you'll be out of luck.
It's a very simplified argument for youtube comments, but the core issue is there: if your licensing is cloud based, your ability to open their proprietary CAD formats isn't a sure thing. Ask all the businesses that recently got screwed by Fusion 360's significant changes to their licensing terms and functionality.
All the professional CAD programs are pretty much subscripion now. If you don't pay yearly, you can't open the program or access your files, even if your files are on your local harddrive. If Onshape folds, you can export as STEP and bring your files into another CAD system. Same thing you would have to do if Solidworks folded.
@@nickp4793 STEP files do not carry the features history. So they are NOT your parametric design. Which is gone forever. You can export a pig as a sausage, but for sure it is not a pig anymore.
@@marcobassini3576 If Creo folded, your only choice would be to export as STEP, same as if SW or NX folded. You'd lose the history tree in all of those cases. Onshape being cloud based is not any worse off than the other programs. That was my point.
Too expensive to be feasible for my work...
Riley - Would you like access to my On Shape -AN/MS library ? (It's quite large) contact me
fusion360 is better.