Assuming the Seeming spell works the same, changing the appearance of everyone in a 90 ft radius instead of a 30 ft radius is perfect for causing chaos and confusion.
You guys really should clarify if malleable illusions is being kept and this 6th level feature is being given on top of it. Because it would be pretty disappointing for you to get rid of malleable illusions.
This part, right here. Illusions Reality is good, but not great. Giving us a 2/day half summon is definitely a nerf to an actually great ability. "We want to give them more" but WotC missed the mark entirely.
The Illusionist was one of my favorite classes in 1E AD&D. It's so good to see it get some much needed upgrades in D&D 24. This new version sounds magnificent!
But this version is strictly worse than the 5e version? Malleable Illusions made mid to high level wizard essentially Gods, now its replaced by Nerfed summons who were already notorious for getting one shot in the mid-late game and being completely useless. Cast Mirage Arcane and Rise mountains, open lava fissures, build a castle out of thin air with Malleable Illusions? Or summon Paw Patrol to get wiped out by a single attack/AoE? I'll be sticking with my 5e Illusion Wizard, my DM has already agreed to let me just swap out this trash level 6 feature with Malleable Illusions and keep the upgraded Savant feature.
@@FrontLineBuster I did say "sounds" magnificent, lol. Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind once I see the printed text in the new book... and I hope I'm not disappointed. I've used the summon spells mentioned on other characters builds and they are some of my favorites. I also like that the vocal components are not required for illusions. Subtle spell was always cool to me as a sorcerer, and this is similar. But yeah, I see no issues at all sticking with the 2014 version of classes and subclasses. I'm sure a lot of folks will still like the 14 version better, while some might enjoy the 24 version. Good thing is... we can have both. 🙂
@@WallyDM Not having verbal still requires your wizard to pass a slight of hand check to get away with the Somatic components... which sucks as thats not particularly something wizards are known for being good at. Meanwhile there are warlock subclasses that can cast two entire schools of magic without any verbal or somatic components so idk why they couldnt give both to the Illusionist also. Also im not saying Summon Fey is a bad spell, but having it as a Level 6 feature where they are already coming in at half HP with your free use is mid.
@@FrontLineBuster Ya know, great point on the somatic. I'd also be one of those DMs that would call for a sleight of hand check if the target could see the spellcaster. Bummer they didn't remove both V and S on this one.
@@FrontLineBuster I don't really see how malleable illusion is better. It just lets you change what your illusion looks like. The change to summoning spells sounds way more fun than changing a fake mountain into a fake castle. Edit: I looked into it and I can see how malleable illusion could be good, but only with Mirage Arcane, which is a 7th level spell. So its a feature that is largely useless for 7 levels when you can use it at level 13. And it takes 10 minutes to cast, so you would have to set up the area as part of prep and has no use in moment to moment battle. I would rather a feature I could use instantly and part of battle. Clearly you like it so go right ahead using it, but personally I still see this as a better change myself. I haven't even been in a campaign long enough to get to level 13.
Hard disagree, the level 6 feature for summon beasts and Fey is hot garbage compared to the versatility of Malleable Illusions. If I wanted to play a class around Summons id play a Druid, especially not NERFED Summons. As opposed to having a permanent Major Image (When cast at 6th level it lasts until dispelled) that you can change to look like anything you want as an action without expending any further resources is infinitely better. Dont even get me started on Mirage Arcane + Malleable Illusions. That level 6 feature is absolutely garbage in comparison. I will stick to my 5e School of Illusion Wizard.
@@FrontLineBuster I feel like almost every DM already plays illusion spells like that, though. The ability to change the way your illusion looks or behaves with an action… is what most people already do, effectively. Even if it’s technically against the rules. This made it so, in most cases, the Illusionist just didn’t have a 6th level feature. I’d personally rather have a flawed feature over one that basically doesn’t give me anything.
@@FrontLineBuster @FrontLineBuster I understand why you might think that, but the problem that I have always had with Illusions is that they offer so much in terms of creativity but it is only stifled by GM's who are unprepared for your vision as the player behind the illusion wizard. I enjoyed malleable illusions, but everything being equal I cannot DM for myself, and even though I would need to have a conversation with any DM before I started to play an illusion wizard, my experience is that they would not interpret things the same way I would. More specifically to malleable illusions, that should just be Baseline for the illusion wizard - period. Don't get me wrong if I could have both I would
There's an issue here. While I like the idea that the illusionist can mechanically reflavour Summon Beast or Summon Fey as an illusion spell, allowing them to cast it normally is thematically weird but is needed for gameplay clarity. Most would argue, me included, that this feature steps on Conjuration wizard a bit, as there's nothing stopping them from just casting this spell normally and getting better summons. However, you can't limit the illusionist to only cast these two spells as illusions, as if you were to do that you are fundamentally locking a subclass out of a spell they may want on their list. The scenarios they come up with as examples feels strange too, as the illusionist feels far more focused on summoning beasts than summoning specific patterns, figments or phantasms. I suppose illusionists will just have to self-police the feature to not feel like a diet summoner.
The problem with illusion wizards was always they're illusion spells didn't distract or affect the enemy hard enough, it was to easy to overcome the dc's
I'm playing one right now and its...hit or miss..sometimes really good and encounter changing illusion, but most the time its...maybe the enemy uses its action to look at it instead of attacking. /shrug
Oh this is just objectively better Illusionist Wizard. I'd LOVE to try this new one out - it sounds far more interesting and flexible than it used to be.
Shout out to Tempest, my friend's 1e half-elf Fighter/Illusionist, the only illusionist I can remember seeing in my D&D life. I like this new one; it makes the class more viable.
Do the Arcane Traditions not count as a subclass anymore cuz my nephew's character is a wizard and he's a Conjuring tradition I'm worried I'll have to get the book and restart the whole campaign all over again
@jeff1238191 You aren't forced to buy or use anything, it's about having fun after all. Arcane Traditions are subclasses. If a subclass shouldn't have an updated version, like the Necromancer and you want to use it with the new rules you just use the old subclass with the new class.
im sorry but this one is the biggest miss in the new phb for me, you turned it into a reflavoured summoner and with no offering for Conjuration Wizards. Illusionist already stepped on the toes of Conjuration Wizards with Illusory Reality but now getting them a Summon Spell Conjurer's couldn't even get before? I really hope you guys got something extra unique for Conjuration Wizard in store soon...
Yeah, unique as in they nerfed conjuration spells into not actually conjuring anything anymore and just being another version of spiritual guardians and spiritual weapons, no more summoning a big scary demon with summon greater demon, now you get summon fiend and only get fiendish spirit, and just that, no more summoning hags or bears and dinosaurs, just beast spirit and fey spirit.
You just turned the illusion wizard into another conjuration wizard but with the bad summon spells. (because you turned the good conjuration spells into like six flavors of spiritual guardians)
They left out all the game breaking sub-classes, and took the broken part of Illusionist (Malleable Illusions). Would you rather cast Major image once at 6th level and never need to cast it ever again to use it unless it gets dispelled? Or would you rather summon a pet with half its normal hp thats probably going to get obliterated after 1 round by a single attack or AoE? This illusionist sucks. They will probably add Necromancer when they get rid of the feature that doesnt allow its Max HP to be reduced so people can no longer spend all their gold creating a Magen army.
@@DireBearGeek My point is they removed them because people were using the interactions to break the game, but they were fine and incredibly versatile for people who wanted to use those features in creative ways, now the creativity for Illusionist is drastically restricted compared to before.
This kinda feels like they have made a rule that replaces the need for an Artificer Class. I could actually see the Wizard Class just absorbing the whole Artificer Class with more subclasses like Alchemist and Artillerist.
Anybody else feel like illusionist is just a naruto character? Substitution, summoning, creating objects, messing with peoples heads. I'm sure there are new spells and features that could continue with the flavor but the sound of playing an illusionist ninja is too god damn enticing.
Did they address that somatic and material components are still just as perceptible as verbal components currently so being able to cast without verbals effectively does nothing. They also killed like the only cool thing about illusion, being able to edit mirage arcane as an action with your level 6 to effectively become a god within a 1 mile cube.
Assuming the Seeming spell works the same, changing the appearance of everyone in a 90 ft radius instead of a 30 ft radius is perfect for causing chaos and confusion.
I think it’ll be called an emanation now so it won’t work the same.
@@Adurnis Which would be a shame if it doesn't - making EVERYONE in a market square look like you while you swan off would be hilarious.
“And now, everyone looks like boblin the goblin. Good luck finding which one of us is real.”
You guys really should clarify if malleable illusions is being kept and this 6th level feature is being given on top of it. Because it would be pretty disappointing for you to get rid of malleable illusions.
This part, right here. Illusions Reality is good, but not great. Giving us a 2/day half summon is definitely a nerf to an actually great ability. "We want to give them more" but WotC missed the mark entirely.
Still wish they'd kept Malleable Illusions in somewhere. It wasn't the strongest feature, but it was fun and rewarded creativity.
Anything they didnt explicitly say its removed is still there im pretty sure
Honestly I would just give characters it still on top of the 6th level feature. It's unique but not gamebreakingly powerful.
They need to just make it part of the class, like a lvl 2 class feature, really.
This soudns really fun actually
The Illusionist was one of my favorite classes in 1E AD&D. It's so good to see it get some much needed upgrades in D&D 24. This new version sounds magnificent!
But this version is strictly worse than the 5e version? Malleable Illusions made mid to high level wizard essentially Gods, now its replaced by Nerfed summons who were already notorious for getting one shot in the mid-late game and being completely useless.
Cast Mirage Arcane and Rise mountains, open lava fissures, build a castle out of thin air with Malleable Illusions? Or summon Paw Patrol to get wiped out by a single attack/AoE?
I'll be sticking with my 5e Illusion Wizard, my DM has already agreed to let me just swap out this trash level 6 feature with Malleable Illusions and keep the upgraded Savant feature.
@@FrontLineBuster I did say "sounds" magnificent, lol. Of course, I reserve the right to change my mind once I see the printed text in the new book... and I hope I'm not disappointed.
I've used the summon spells mentioned on other characters builds and they are some of my favorites. I also like that the vocal components are not required for illusions. Subtle spell was always cool to me as a sorcerer, and this is similar.
But yeah, I see no issues at all sticking with the 2014 version of classes and subclasses. I'm sure a lot of folks will still like the 14 version better, while some might enjoy the 24 version. Good thing is... we can have both. 🙂
@@WallyDM Not having verbal still requires your wizard to pass a slight of hand check to get away with the Somatic components... which sucks as thats not particularly something wizards are known for being good at. Meanwhile there are warlock subclasses that can cast two entire schools of magic without any verbal or somatic components so idk why they couldnt give both to the Illusionist also.
Also im not saying Summon Fey is a bad spell, but having it as a Level 6 feature where they are already coming in at half HP with your free use is mid.
@@FrontLineBuster Ya know, great point on the somatic. I'd also be one of those DMs that would call for a sleight of hand check if the target could see the spellcaster. Bummer they didn't remove both V and S on this one.
@@FrontLineBuster I don't really see how malleable illusion is better. It just lets you change what your illusion looks like. The change to summoning spells sounds way more fun than changing a fake mountain into a fake castle.
Edit: I looked into it and I can see how malleable illusion could be good, but only with Mirage Arcane, which is a 7th level spell. So its a feature that is largely useless for 7 levels when you can use it at level 13. And it takes 10 minutes to cast, so you would have to set up the area as part of prep and has no use in moment to moment battle. I would rather a feature I could use instantly and part of battle. Clearly you like it so go right ahead using it, but personally I still see this as a better change myself. I haven't even been in a campaign long enough to get to level 13.
One of the most improved subclasses so far, very keen on trying it out
Hard disagree, the level 6 feature for summon beasts and Fey is hot garbage compared to the versatility of Malleable Illusions. If I wanted to play a class around Summons id play a Druid, especially not NERFED Summons. As opposed to having a permanent Major Image (When cast at 6th level it lasts until dispelled) that you can change to look like anything you want as an action without expending any further resources is infinitely better. Dont even get me started on Mirage Arcane + Malleable Illusions. That level 6 feature is absolutely garbage in comparison. I will stick to my 5e School of Illusion Wizard.
@@FrontLineBuster I feel like almost every DM already plays illusion spells like that, though.
The ability to change the way your illusion looks or behaves with an action… is what most people already do, effectively. Even if it’s technically against the rules.
This made it so, in most cases, the Illusionist just didn’t have a 6th level feature.
I’d personally rather have a flawed feature over one that basically doesn’t give me anything.
@@FrontLineBuster @FrontLineBuster I understand why you might think that, but the problem that I have always had with Illusions is that they offer so much in terms of creativity but it is only stifled by GM's who are unprepared for your vision as the player behind the illusion wizard. I enjoyed malleable illusions, but everything being equal I cannot DM for myself, and even though I would need to have a conversation with any DM before I started to play an illusion wizard, my experience is that they would not interpret things the same way I would. More specifically to malleable illusions, that should just be Baseline for the illusion wizard - period. Don't get me wrong if I could have both I would
There's an issue here. While I like the idea that the illusionist can mechanically reflavour Summon Beast or Summon Fey as an illusion spell, allowing them to cast it normally is thematically weird but is needed for gameplay clarity.
Most would argue, me included, that this feature steps on Conjuration wizard a bit, as there's nothing stopping them from just casting this spell normally and getting better summons. However, you can't limit the illusionist to only cast these two spells as illusions, as if you were to do that you are fundamentally locking a subclass out of a spell they may want on their list.
The scenarios they come up with as examples feels strange too, as the illusionist feels far more focused on summoning beasts than summoning specific patterns, figments or phantasms.
I suppose illusionists will just have to self-police the feature to not feel like a diet summoner.
I still think they should get to deal some pain with illusions, even if it was only ever a d10, despite it being an illusory elephant falling on you.
Well when you use Summon Fey or Summon Beast as illusion spells, they can still attack and deal damage
The problem with illusion wizards was always they're illusion spells didn't distract or affect the enemy hard enough, it was to easy to overcome the dc's
I'm playing one right now and its...hit or miss..sometimes really good and encounter changing illusion, but most the time its...maybe the enemy uses its action to look at it instead of attacking. /shrug
Now this interesting me to create an illusionist character
Ummmmmmmmm that's not my Monk.
Oh this is just objectively better Illusionist Wizard. I'd LOVE to try this new one out - it sounds far more interesting and flexible than it used to be.
They never need to be changed from 1st edition. They were perfect.
Why?
Shout out to Tempest, my friend's 1e half-elf Fighter/Illusionist, the only illusionist I can remember seeing in my D&D life. I like this new one; it makes the class more viable.
I’m gonna be real they cooked on this one
Much better than creating a Sorcerer to do this sort of thing, before these changes if you wanted to make a sneaky caster you had to go sorcerer.
Bring back à la cart to the marketplace
Do the Arcane Traditions not count as a subclass anymore cuz my nephew's character is a wizard and he's a Conjuring tradition I'm worried I'll have to get the book and restart the whole campaign all over again
@jeff1238191 You aren't forced to buy or use anything, it's about having fun after all.
Arcane Traditions are subclasses. If a subclass shouldn't have an updated version, like the Necromancer and you want to use it with the new rules you just use the old subclass with the new class.
It's backwards compatible so older versions of the classes can still play within the new ruleset.
Just keep using the Conjuration subclass with the new wizard.
This sounds phenomenal
.....how the hell do you summon something to fight for you and has HP but its an illusion?
Thats just a summoner.
MWAHAHAHAHAHAHHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Tulock's Pennywise Build is now more usable!
I didn't know this was the subclass I wanted the most to change until this video. I can't wait to play this
im sorry but this one is the biggest miss in the new phb for me, you turned it into a reflavoured summoner and with no offering for Conjuration Wizards. Illusionist already stepped on the toes of Conjuration Wizards with Illusory Reality but now getting them a Summon Spell Conjurer's couldn't even get before? I really hope you guys got something extra unique for Conjuration Wizard in store soon...
Depends on your definition of soon. Doesn’t seem like Conjurer, Enchanter, Necromancer or Transmuter made their way into the phb
Yeah, unique as in they nerfed conjuration spells into not actually conjuring anything anymore and just being another version of spiritual guardians and spiritual weapons, no more summoning a big scary demon with summon greater demon, now you get summon fiend and only get fiendish spirit, and just that, no more summoning hags or bears and dinosaurs, just beast spirit and fey spirit.
I like these videos more so because they are both so in love with the game
Oooo hyped to role play as one of these , got some ideas
You just turned the illusion wizard into another conjuration wizard but with the bad summon spells. (because you turned the good conjuration spells into like six flavors of spiritual guardians)
Love the improvement from the UA
Still worse than 5e.
Love the new illusionist. But where is the transmuter and necro?
DLC to come later. =P
They left out all the game breaking sub-classes, and took the broken part of Illusionist (Malleable Illusions). Would you rather cast Major image once at 6th level and never need to cast it ever again to use it unless it gets dispelled? Or would you rather summon a pet with half its normal hp thats probably going to get obliterated after 1 round by a single attack or AoE? This illusionist sucks.
They will probably add Necromancer when they get rid of the feature that doesnt allow its Max HP to be reduced so people can no longer spend all their gold creating a Magen army.
@@FrontLineBuster Gamebreaking =Fun
@@DireBearGeek My point is they removed them because people were using the interactions to break the game, but they were fine and incredibly versatile for people who wanted to use those features in creative ways, now the creativity for Illusionist is drastically restricted compared to before.
If it can attack and has HP, it it really an illusion?
would have been better as an At Will spell, with 1 HP instead.
This kinda feels like they have made a rule that replaces the need for an Artificer Class. I could actually see the Wizard Class just absorbing the whole Artificer Class with more subclasses like Alchemist and Artillerist.
Anybody else feel like illusionist is just a naruto character? Substitution, summoning, creating objects, messing with peoples heads. I'm sure there are new spells and features that could continue with the flavor but the sound of playing an illusionist ninja is too god damn enticing.
Did they address that somatic and material components are still just as perceptible as verbal components currently so being able to cast without verbals effectively does nothing.
They also killed like the only cool thing about illusion, being able to edit mirage arcane as an action with your level 6 to effectively become a god within a 1 mile cube.
If you only need somatic they could probably add a rule that makes you roll a stealth check or sleight of hands
@@kongoaurius As long as they codify that in the book, if not backwards compatibility says xgte rules still apply
Depends on the dm but also it's just cool and flavorful shut your minmaxer mouth I'm sorry that was aggressive
I feel like it's alot easier to twiddle your fingers unnoticed than speak a spell out loud unnoticed.
@@zachrusso-yu4ul honestly, I too struggle to find a polite way to say "god damn, stop just dismissing every fun feature as not abusable enough!"