Very interesting video, Im glad you mentioned that stormseeker is now modeled with the recent buff. Was curious to see if it would boost it into one of the top builds for a hunter considering it was so close before. It definitely feels ok right now but not amazing.
Thank you! Yeah I'm not certain, but I imagine getting up to around 300 stacks is probably the sweet spot atm for making it viable. Giving up a core item to squeeze it in is really hard though! Thanks again!
Very through video I very much enjoyed the content and information you put into it. This is definitely gonna make playing heim a bit easier. Two things I’d like to ask when do you use certain builds in certain matchups. And secondly, which upgraded version of exe do you go? Green exe or Dark exe?
Thanks so much for doing a video that I asked about. I play a lot of heim in comp and love all the info you provide. Keep it up looking forward to the next video ❤
Man another stellar analysis. Really appreciate you doing some side tests along the way for context i.e. this is how the same crit build performs against spectral. One of my favorite parts of smite is undoubtedly the builds, and adc is fun because i will genuinely try a lot of different things but it's still fun as a min maxer to always pursue a max dmg build and i think you've done a great job at finding a way to quantify these very fuzzy concepts like TTK vs spectral vs Squishies etc. Great leverage of technology. Good luck man smite isn't a giant viewerbase but as a 10 year smiter now i just want to say that the people who do watch some of your vids will definitely enjoy the excellent work. PS: thanks for reminding me crit sucks on Heim haha i don't play as often anymore and i forget some things like that :)
Thank you! I appreciate the comment, it means a lot, I'm happy if even one person feels like this content is valuable/interesting. I myself of course find it interesting, but I'm not sure if the majority of the community do, which is fine. It's so hard to quantify sometimes what to build so I think this kinda info helps a lot, and running a full computer model is the only viable way to get it hahah. Thanks for the comment!
wow good content sir! wondering few things hehe.. how many stacks you calculated on deaths temper, gilded arrow, diamond arrow, boomerang and executioner? lastly with obow u considering all the 4 zaps going off every 4 basics?
Hello! Yes thanks for asking! I tried to model each item at a realistic number of stacks so…. Most starter items are half stacked Diamond arrow: 1 stack Bladed boomerang: 1 stack Obow: procs twice (bounces once) Executioner fully stacked My next video is looking at each item when these kind of items are are at different numbers of stacks, my previous “starter item” video has already looked at this for starters items! Thanks for the comment!!
Thank you! I’m glad you like the format, I’m planning to keep going with god specific videos, I’ve done Charybdis and Heim which are the 2 main ones I personally was most interested in, keep an eye out!
Loving all your videos, math, explanation and presentation, great work!! I am interested in knowing if there is a power threshold where qins stop being the top item against tanks, changing best TTK build... Probably wouldnt be reachable in a standard game even with full hiper lategame state (red pot, 3k pot, red buff, fire giant) but still interesting
Thank you! 🙏 yeah that would be interesting, there definitely is some cut off point somewhere, I’m not too sure how to determine it though…🤔 if I remember, in my stormseeker video where I modelled it fully stacked, there was a build in there that didn’t contain qinns, so somewhere around having a fully stacked silver branch, rage and death bringer does compete with qinns (just a bit unrealistic)😂 if I had to estimate purely in terms of power, I’d say 600 maybe??🤔 thanks for the comment!
Hello yes! Sorry i didn’t mention it in the video, I gave him 3 stacks which was a 9% increase to power (and made sure it scaled properly with leaders cowl) :) thanks for the question!
I would really like to see the total amount of autos used to kill as well as the dps if that's possible with your program. How do you calculate the time to kill? is it just hp/dps(after protections)=ttk? If two builds use the same amount of autos to kill and both have the same attack speed it doesnt mean that the dps is the same but effectively it is. Figuring out what the typical breakpoints are in health and protections could lead to some further optimization.
Hello!! Yes that’s exactly right, it’s hp/dps, I suppose I could model autos to kill and it might give some good information, I wouldn’t even have to code it I can just use what I already have, maybe I’ll look into it just to see if there are any surprising results! Thanks for the comment and kind words I really appreciate it!!
Heim has weak autos cause he has situation similar to yemoja or old persephone, his kit's utility (map information and safety) makes him VERY good in the hands of a high end player, but way weaker in casual play.
Does any of the math take into account the auto cancel with his 3? I always though he had higher dps when aa canceling after 2 autos and avoiding the big auto
Mmm no this wasn't taken into account, but I'm not sure if heim can actually increase his basic attack damage by auto-cancelling. He can probably increase his yellow damage (providing he definitely does throw out autos faster when cancelling, but I'm not sure about that), because if he auto cancels he will be throwing out more attacks/second. But his auto damage itself? No, because the swing time of his auto after cancelling is at least still 1.3x (1.25xdamage). and he's now missing out on his big auto which is 1.5x(1.5xdamage) and the only auto he throws thats damage actually matches to the swing time. So in short, cancelling proabably doesn't do anything for your damage unless you have yellow damage items, and even then the gain would be minimal. But you'd have to test in game if his auto cancels significantly increase his effective attack speed. Thanks for the comment!
@@SmiteMaths he does, you know how he has the effective lowest aa speed he can bypass that by aa canceling its why quins is his best item and he's a strong god despite having a 27% lower quins rate theoretically it has the downside of consuming his escape though so its not a 100% uptime kind of thing if he doesn't wanna waste his safety similarly its why he's strong in duel he doesn't have to worry about safety and call aa cancel the whole time its very noticeable against good heims.
AA chain resetting with his 3 isn't really worth it late game since you already have a lot of attack speed in your build and also because it messes with the placement of your 3 (which you need for safety)
Yes Slightly! But he has been Meta for years in the pro scene due to his safety and utility (Teleport, Strong Ult, Vision), it just goes to show it's not all about damage!
@@SmiteMaths Well, Heim is about abusing Hydras procs and auto attack resets with his 3, isn't he?! Your test do not include any usage of abillities, so teh real outcome might be different when you just 2 shot squishies :>
@@farbenpracht I don't know here you got your information from but Hydras does not proc off of hiem 3, the latest reference to this *bug* was 4 years ago. Yes the model does not take into account abilities, as auto attack hunters (like Heim) should be relying almost soley on their autos for damage late game and actually lose out on dps when casting abilities, abilities should be used to compliment the hunters ability to do damage, survive and provide some utility, but not for maximizing damage. Pro players have also always built him auto attack based in competitive matches which gives me confidence in modelling him in the way I have. My video does talk about how if heim did utilse to kill squishies faster it would harm his damage to tanks a lot, it all depends on your play style, and if you wanted to go crit or max power, you can, it just won't kill the whole enemy team in the fastest time, but if that's not what you're going for that's okay, you play how you want to play. Thanks for the comment!
@@SmiteMaths Worth noting his first two autos are also wider and can do aoe splash damage, which could lead to hitting more autos and therefore more damage
These are not practical builds they're top dps builds. Like if you went into a motd with 200,000gold and could full buy this would be better than a standard build. But in conquest a lot of these would scale horrendously like gilded arrow is such a weak starter item for heim in lane. If you want a standard heim conq build its Manikin or leader Cowl or temper, devo, exe-or quin then vice versa, titans or obow (cowl is dom instead of obow) then vice versa. (With the optional tech slotting of griffonwing earring if you know how to aa cancel with him to remove movement penalty but if you dont know how to build him you probably dont know how to do this it replaces obow and you buy it before exe quins.) Max 1, 2, put 2 points in ult then max 3, last points go in ult and look up how to use bifrost correctly in combat and that's prety much heim.
@@marlenanzel7288 Yeah lategame these are mathematically the best builds but because of that it doesnt take into account power curve and stuff so likely chance pre full build its gonna perform like complete shit compared to a meta hunter build.
Please Like and Subscribe it really helps me out! If you have any questions feel free to ask! Smite 2 code is being written now!
did you remove a bunch of community posts?
Your channel is a gem, please continue
@@thatguy00271 hello 👋 no I haven’t removed any posts👀 Thank you so much, means a lot!!
Something people don't consider for manikins is the AS slow which doesn't increase your TTK but does decrease theirs
Does it decrease it to less than that of Heinz because if it doesn’t then, it’s kinda useless
i wish there were more math people creating content in smite, the thoth book that came out years ago was cool but i want more. Im glad you exist
Very interesting video, Im glad you mentioned that stormseeker is now modeled with the recent buff. Was curious to see if it would boost it into one of the top builds for a hunter considering it was so close before. It definitely feels ok right now but not amazing.
Thank you! Yeah I'm not certain, but I imagine getting up to around 300 stacks is probably the sweet spot atm for making it viable. Giving up a core item to squeeze it in is really hard though! Thanks again!
Very through video I very much enjoyed the content and information you put into it. This is definitely gonna make playing heim a bit easier.
Two things I’d like to ask when do you use certain builds in certain matchups. And secondly, which upgraded version of exe do you go? Green exe or Dark exe?
Really glad you found it helpful:) with exe it depends, if they have healing or shields go for the green one, if not just get the dark one
Thanks so much for doing a video that I asked about. I play a lot of heim in comp and love all the info you provide. Keep it up looking forward to the next video ❤
No worries, just glad I could help❤️thanks for the kind words I appreciate it!!
Man another stellar analysis. Really appreciate you doing some side tests along the way for context i.e. this is how the same crit build performs against spectral. One of my favorite parts of smite is undoubtedly the builds, and adc is fun because i will genuinely try a lot of different things but it's still fun as a min maxer to always pursue a max dmg build and i think you've done a great job at finding a way to quantify these very fuzzy concepts like TTK vs spectral vs Squishies etc. Great leverage of technology. Good luck man smite isn't a giant viewerbase but as a 10 year smiter now i just want to say that the people who do watch some of your vids will definitely enjoy the excellent work. PS: thanks for reminding me crit sucks on Heim haha i don't play as often anymore and i forget some things like that :)
Thank you! I appreciate the comment, it means a lot, I'm happy if even one person feels like this content is valuable/interesting. I myself of course find it interesting, but I'm not sure if the majority of the community do, which is fine. It's so hard to quantify sometimes what to build so I think this kinda info helps a lot, and running a full computer model is the only viable way to get it hahah. Thanks for the comment!
Yay! Was waiting for a Heimdallr video! This is so insightful
Thank you!
wow good content sir!
wondering few things hehe.. how many stacks you calculated on deaths temper, gilded arrow, diamond arrow, boomerang and executioner?
lastly with obow u considering all the 4 zaps going off every 4 basics?
Hello! Yes thanks for asking! I tried to model each item at a realistic number of stacks so….
Most starter items are half stacked
Diamond arrow: 1 stack
Bladed boomerang: 1 stack
Obow: procs twice (bounces once)
Executioner fully stacked
My next video is looking at each item when these kind of items are are at different numbers of stacks, my previous “starter item” video has already looked at this for starters items! Thanks for the comment!!
Great info! Side note, cool heim play at the end :D
Hahaha thank you!!
Wonderful video, I'd love to see how other "weird" hunters like skadi, or even the magic adc stack up
Thank you! I’m glad you like the format, I’m planning to keep going with god specific videos, I’ve done Charybdis and Heim which are the 2 main ones I personally was most interested in, keep an eye out!
you earn a new subs, this info is gold.
❤️
Loving all your videos, math, explanation and presentation, great work!!
I am interested in knowing if there is a power threshold where qins stop being the top item against tanks, changing best TTK build... Probably wouldnt be reachable in a standard game even with full hiper lategame state (red pot, 3k pot, red buff, fire giant) but still interesting
Thank you! 🙏 yeah that would be interesting, there definitely is some cut off point somewhere, I’m not too sure how to determine it though…🤔 if I remember, in my stormseeker video where I modelled it fully stacked, there was a build in there that didn’t contain qinns, so somewhere around having a fully stacked silver branch, rage and death bringer does compete with qinns (just a bit unrealistic)😂 if I had to estimate purely in terms of power, I’d say 600 maybe??🤔 thanks for the comment!
Bro I just want to let you know that I'm happy that you exist ❤
You too homie ♥️
Question
Do any of the calculations you performed include Heimdallr's passive?
If so was it at max stacks?
Hello yes! Sorry i didn’t mention it in the video, I gave him 3 stacks which was a 9% increase to power (and made sure it scaled properly with leaders cowl) :) thanks for the question!
@@SmiteMaths thank you for responding, I'm glad this got clarified
insane effort in every vid, keep up the good work!
Thank you!!
I would really like to see the total amount of autos used to kill as well as the dps if that's possible with your program. How do you calculate the time to kill? is it just hp/dps(after protections)=ttk? If two builds use the same amount of autos to kill and both have the same attack speed it doesnt mean that the dps is the same but effectively it is. Figuring out what the typical breakpoints are in health and protections could lead to some further optimization.
Also want to say another great video and glad to see your channel growing so quickly!
Hello!! Yes that’s exactly right, it’s hp/dps, I suppose I could model autos to kill and it might give some good information, I wouldn’t even have to code it I can just use what I already have, maybe I’ll look into it just to see if there are any surprising results! Thanks for the comment and kind words I really appreciate it!!
Thanks I definitely need to try these builds!
Maths to smite builds, youre the Best this is so interesting sub ando like keep the great work!!
Thank you!
You made a video of my main, I yield [subscribes]
😂😂
I miss critting for 1.5k-3.5k on Heim . . . Good times
Heim has weak autos cause he has situation similar to yemoja or old persephone, his kit's utility (map information and safety) makes him VERY good in the hands of a high end player, but way weaker in casual play.
thanks! v helpful vid!
Thank you!
Ullr vid?
Does any of the math take into account the auto cancel with his 3? I always though he had higher dps when aa canceling after 2 autos and avoiding the big auto
Mmm no this wasn't taken into account, but I'm not sure if heim can actually increase his basic attack damage by auto-cancelling. He can probably increase his yellow damage (providing he definitely does throw out autos faster when cancelling, but I'm not sure about that), because if he auto cancels he will be throwing out more attacks/second. But his auto damage itself? No, because the swing time of his auto after cancelling is at least still 1.3x (1.25xdamage). and he's now missing out on his big auto which is 1.5x(1.5xdamage) and the only auto he throws thats damage actually matches to the swing time. So in short, cancelling proabably doesn't do anything for your damage unless you have yellow damage items, and even then the gain would be minimal. But you'd have to test in game if his auto cancels significantly increase his effective attack speed.
Thanks for the comment!
@@SmiteMaths he does, you know how he has the effective lowest aa speed he can bypass that by aa canceling its why quins is his best item and he's a strong god despite having a 27% lower quins rate theoretically it has the downside of consuming his escape though so its not a 100% uptime kind of thing if he doesn't wanna waste his safety similarly its why he's strong in duel he doesn't have to worry about safety and call aa cancel the whole time its very noticeable against good heims.
AA chain resetting with his 3 isn't really worth it late game since you already have a lot of attack speed in your build and also because it messes with the placement of your 3 (which you need for safety)
So... Heimdllr is weakest than other hunters 🤔
Yes Slightly! But he has been Meta for years in the pro scene due to his safety and utility (Teleport, Strong Ult, Vision), it just goes to show it's not all about damage!
@@SmiteMaths Well, Heim is about abusing Hydras procs and auto attack resets with his 3, isn't he?!
Your test do not include any usage of abillities, so teh real outcome might be different when you just 2 shot squishies :>
@@farbenpracht I don't know here you got your information from but Hydras does not proc off of hiem 3, the latest reference to this *bug* was 4 years ago.
Yes the model does not take into account abilities, as auto attack hunters (like Heim) should be relying almost soley on their autos for damage late game and actually lose out on dps when casting abilities, abilities should be used to compliment the hunters ability to do damage, survive and provide some utility, but not for maximizing damage. Pro players have also always built him auto attack based in competitive matches which gives me confidence in modelling him in the way I have.
My video does talk about how if heim did utilse to kill squishies faster it would harm his damage to tanks a lot, it all depends on your play style, and if you wanted to go crit or max power, you can, it just won't kill the whole enemy team in the fastest time, but if that's not what you're going for that's okay, you play how you want to play.
Thanks for the comment!
@@farbenprachthe doesnt proc hydras w/ the 3, and performs p bad built ability.
@@SmiteMaths Worth noting his first two autos are also wider and can do aoe splash damage, which could lead to hitting more autos and therefore more damage
What about King Arthur
THA HUNTA MUST HUNT
Yellow numbers don’t proc dominance. Don’t know if u knew that.
Best build is deathstoll stormkeeper devours transcendance dominance silverbranch
Whay more damage than the basic builds shown here
So in other words, Heimdallr needs a buff.
He’s definitely strong in the right hands! High skill ceiling god for sure!
Hi
I just build build crit regardless, with hydras. You really just two shot people.
Let me clarify. I build failnot at a solo crit item. And sometimes if they don't have spectral late I'll get DB.
My build does 1000k damage auto
Hoonter😂😂😂
0 damage i do with anti tank buld whatis this nonsencea
These are not practical builds they're top dps builds. Like if you went into a motd with 200,000gold and could full buy this would be better than a standard build. But in conquest a lot of these would scale horrendously like gilded arrow is such a weak starter item for heim in lane.
If you want a standard heim conq build its Manikin or leader Cowl or temper, devo, exe-or quin then vice versa, titans or obow (cowl is dom instead of obow) then vice versa. (With the optional tech slotting of griffonwing earring if you know how to aa cancel with him to remove movement penalty but if you dont know how to build him you probably dont know how to do this it replaces obow and you buy it before exe quins.) Max 1, 2, put 2 points in ult then max 3, last points go in ult and look up how to use bifrost correctly in combat and that's prety much heim.
@@DeanWBarry nevermind. I commented mid game and full build i melted the tanks. And titan. titan gone in 5 seconds with rama. No joke.
@@marlenanzel7288 Yeah lategame these are mathematically the best builds but because of that it doesnt take into account power curve and stuff so likely chance pre full build its gonna perform like complete shit compared to a meta hunter build.
simple... just don't play him lol