@@Hereticals Ive heard them all and not one atheist has had a defeater for any of DDs arguments. What you did has been tried many times and has failed. Do you have a defeater for any of his arguments or are you just into parodies as an argument.
I did not count, but Darth must have overtalked Chris at least 3 or 4 times before that complaint... just like other permanent complainers like Oakley, THEY can do the bad things as much as they want, but the FIRST perceived offense is immediate cause to derail the discussion... And he talks over Chris all the time after the trinity "revelation" when he lost his patience. HYPOCRITE!
Speaking of talking over him, the "sorry, have you finished the question?" at 5:04 gave me a delightful belly laugh 😆 AP did interrupt him at 3:30, but if I were to use the phrase "the guy who kept interrupting," I'm pretty sure most viewers would consider that a reference to Darth/Dunkin'/Gary/whatever. I wonder how he would respond if I were to ask him if I need to know how my car was built or need to know the history of cars in order to use my car or claim it's generally reliable? 🤔
I find the jargon DD uses to be hilarious. "Ultimate and metaphysically primary." It sounds like some sci-fi story using scientific jargon that doesn't make any sense in the real world.
It *is* sci-fi. What's remarkable is when people like that then insist that, because *you* don't go around talking about something being "ultimate and metaphysically primary," you alone must have a difficult time determining what is right and wrong. But because they have defined this nebulous thing that doesn't even seem to exist as "the thing that makes it clear to me what is right and wrong," they don't have any of that difficulty.
What is hard to understand about the words "ultimate" and "metaphysically primary" in a philosophical debate? These are very well known words and not even close to jargon. Theism vs Atheism is a philosophical debate between two opposing philosophical positions, you know that right? So using philosophical terms is not unexpected?
The reason why it sounds like gibberish to you guys is because of your Scientism. You guys are focused only on science, and you guys irrationally dismiss philosophy as "just opinions" because you guys don't know anything about it.
If the Hindu triad is incoherent, then the christian "trinity" is equally so. It's great when someone takes Darth's argument(s) and throws it back at him. When that happens Darth usually begins spewing insults, and then either runs away or launches into a new word-salad that's absolutely meaningless.
Gods damn, that was the greatest Darth takedown I’ve seen. Total destruction, and leaving him sounding so humbled and hobbled at the end there. Made my day.
That debate lead me to subscribing to your channel if I remember correctly. I think you did well, especially considering Darth's well known smear tactics.
I watched the whole conversation. It was so sad. I wished you said to DD "ok well let's reverse it, I will say that if you are not an atheist then everything you say is not coherent and nothing you say matters." This is literally what DD seems to say to everyone. He has one card in his deck and that card is "if you don't have the same beliefs I do then nothing you say and nothing you do matters".
This was so good! Mate I've subscribed, I'm a fan. The moment where DD realised he had his arguments used against him and tried to get back into his script was so good! Imma go back and watch it again
Hahaha this was really funny. Darth recognised that the argument was invalid but could not come out and say it because it's his argument! Love when this is done well great job
It's clear that when they were both muted and being given a "talking to," that Darth is not actually in this to listen or have a conversation. He just kept on talking not listening to the moderator. He has a script that he's going to use by Gawd, and nothing will deter him.
🤣 This was so beautiful!!! All of the sudden he didn’t think you were wanting to have “a serious conversation” & your arguments were stupid...go figure 🤯 He doesn’t take “HIS OWN” arguments serious...🤣
The funny thing I've realized recently is that DD insults other people with things that often apply more appropriately to himself than their intended target. So it's funny to see him up against his own strategy, since any insult he chooses will be directly pitted against himself as well xD
The last sentence is the most telling and has no possibility of the dishonest poltroon that calls himself (currently) DD answering. “Would you like to present me evidence for your (circular) assertions’”
Very much enjoyed that, the moment DD realises he is rejecting his own belief models it sounds like he is making his own dance remix he is back pedalling that fast. Just goes to show logic is an easy thing to apply to everyone else's arguments except your own, congratulations on executing a great idea. Looking forward to checking out more of your content.
LOL. to hear little Gary Milne go silent when asked for evidence for the god he thinks is real. That should go on his tombstone. His entire strategy is "I'm right because I assume I'm right". Well so do toddlers. Which explains Gary Milne quite nicely.
Good work. This is honestly the best way to approach DD. I've analyzed his argument after listening to it a few times. DD likes to set up the argument where he establishes this exclusive and completely fabricated reference class where only his notion of God applies. He then asks loaded questions to pigeonhole the interlocutor into suggesting otherwise, only to then reject what they said and call them incoherent. If the individual provides cogent answers to the questions somehow, he will then continue to muddy the waters by asking additional loaded and philosophically obscure questions that he deems necessary to pigeonhole his interlocutor again, repeating the process. If they give answers that detract from this process, he declares them to be dishonest and trolls and refuses to field questions. When he does allow questioning he provides nothing but trite responses that do nothing to elucidate his reasoning (because he hasn't got any). He is COMPLETELY uncharitable in discussion, refuses to find any common ground, and labels anyone who gives him the slightest challenge trolls. The most dishonest interlocutor in history, and this is a timeline that includes Sye Ten Bruggencate. Sye is downright lovely in comparison. EDIT. Thinking about this makes me realize that DD, in a completely sickening way is fascinating as hell. The only analogy I could think of that compares to the experience of listening to him is looking upon the Elder Scrolls for too long. The man should be labeled an SCP and locked away somewhere bu the Foundation. It's that bad.
You forgot his primary defense mechanism: going meta, AKA 'arguing about the style of the argument' in this case, complaining about being overtalked, when he does it to everyone else.
Yea, and there used to be a video up, it was only up for maybe one day, and it was one of his family members talking about gary milne aka darth dawkins, this was the full quote "gary is a very mentally abusive person, he would at times berate his own mother for questioning the bible saying some of it doesent make sense, and at other times would ALMOST get physical with his mother cuz she wouldnt take his word as law about god" do keep in mind i dont know if this is true but it sure fuckin does sound like some shit gary would do.....
Oh, he is definitely an interesting case. A case study, even. The reluctance to show his face or name, the clinging to a script like an infant's security blanket, the exquisite sensitivity, the readiness to engage "fight or flight" when challenged....I'd suggest that deep inside, Darth is a frightened little boy
You’d think right? But when you look into it you start to realize he’s just really really sad and religion is all he has so he’s willing to defend it even if it means lies on top of more lies, even if he’s telling them to himself :/ kinda feel bad for him
You have revealed that DD has no sense of irony, which reveals his low intelligence and lack of a sense of humor, to go along with the total absence of the self-reflection gene. He is enslaved by his obsession and unable to live life as a normal person, hence the unending troll game.
Darth Dawkins (shitty alias by the way) should really acknowledge that he is absolutely wrong; both in life and to his parents who should deny his existence to the grave. He's argumentative and likes to control what isn't his to control.
“Ya know what... let’s call it divine revelation.” Best laugh I’ve had since before the covid changed the world. Darth deserved every moment. Well done, sir. Well done.
Who cares he doxxed himself online lmfao, we can google every last piece of info about him that we want to lmfao i bet we could find high school pics of him maybe even his tax records
Who cares he doxxed himself online lmfao, we can google every last piece of info about him that we want to lmfao i bet we could find high school pics of him maybe even his tax records
DD is a total troll. He doesnt even believe in this stuff. His family told me he is just doing it for the cash. His family described him as agnostic at best.
Give props to DD for at least working up the nerve to argue outside of his echo chamber where he reigns supreme. Of course he wastes the opportunity to run his tired chain of fallacies.
It's the first time I heard DD. I nearly fell asleep listening to his boring monotone voice droning on. It was like being back in church as a kid. I only woke up when he started crying, that was hilarious :-)
this is one of the best encounters I've ever seen with DD(Gary), he was clearly out of his depth and not able to handle a person who could stand up to him and derail his presup bullsh&t.
lol Gary accuses you of lying when he lies every time he says he wants any kind of conversation. I've seen a lot of his "conversations" and they fail any reasonable definition.
DD missed an opportunity. When AP answered "Same as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," DD should've followed up with "And what is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit relationship like? Explain it to me."
Literally you can say anything is ultimate with a non-monounal nature, and when he asks “well how do you know that” you say “it is something that is simply true/revealed/set up in a way that you can know” and you basically win
Darth is always the only one talking and asking all the leading questions, but then claims he's being interrupted if there's a clarification being asked. He's so full of himself. Lol
That was as comprehensive an exposure as I've seen of the fact that DDs "argument" is simply a series of unproven assertions. It helped that the moderator - at least in this excerpt - kept a tight leash on things, since DD heavily relies on tactics that would never be allowed in anything like a formal debate.
...presupps have all the questions and no answers. Have seen this same tactic over, and over, ad nauseum. Quick-shoot question after question after question, but when they are asked a question they immediately fold. #typical
Hi When Darth often argued that atheism isn't grounded in any absolute or ultimate (he loves the word ultimate) way which is to mean that knowledge can't be known etc etc because its all arbitrary, what is the objection to that? That there is no requirement for an absolute or ultimate anything?
I think technically Lord Krishna is the ultimate Supreme Personality of Godhead... He has many forms but they are all Him... He said so in my head lol... This was great.
Why does DD bother with these simple minded fools.
I know right! It's not like his argument is stupid.....hang on a second.....
@@Hereticals
You are the simple minded fool I was referring to.
@@breambo3835 No you don't say! Damn I've never encountered a DD fanboy before!
@@Hereticals
Ive heard them all and not one atheist has had a defeater for any of DDs arguments. What you did has been tried many times and has failed. Do you have a defeater for any of his arguments or are you just into parodies as an argument.
@@breambo3835 He defeated his own argument - was kinda the point ;)
One of the more satisfying "reverse uno cards" I've listened to.
Would have been more satisfying if he wasn't oblivious to why it was exactly perfect
The Atheist is just being a moron. He has no idea how the Trinity works, he wasn’t even there to have a real conversation just troll.
This was one of the best smackdowns ever! Poor old Darth with his tired script, had nothing but "you're talking over me".
Absolute brilliance, mate!
I can't tell you how much I enjoyed it.
@@Hereticals it was perfect! Does Darth still have a man crush on you?
@@MattsScaleModels I think he's fallen out of love
I did not count, but Darth must have overtalked Chris at least 3 or 4 times before that complaint... just like other permanent complainers like Oakley, THEY can do the bad things as much as they want, but the FIRST perceived offense is immediate cause to derail the discussion...
And he talks over Chris all the time after the trinity "revelation" when he lost his patience. HYPOCRITE!
Speaking of talking over him, the "sorry, have you finished the question?" at 5:04 gave me a delightful belly laugh 😆
AP did interrupt him at 3:30, but if I were to use the phrase "the guy who kept interrupting," I'm pretty sure most viewers would consider that a reference to Darth/Dunkin'/Gary/whatever.
I wonder how he would respond if I were to ask him if I need to know how my car was built or need to know the history of cars in order to use my car or claim it's generally reliable? 🤔
My congrats to Jay for not completely cracking up.
He did well!
He dragged Darth into the deep end and drowned him.
That was *AMAZING* !
The absolute PANIC when he noticed he was arguing against his own arguments!
Not seen it yet, but i'm looking forward to it.
@@antediluvianatheist5262 Well, what did you think?
Omg Darth broke so badly! He couldn't run his script and got pissed real bad. Loved it!
What a surprise. DD isn't brave enough to show his face.
I'm sure it's so no one can see him reading off his scripts.
@@bposs98it's probably just because he has a bad face. No one who watches him really cares about his lazy, vapid scripts.
@@bposs98
He can read? 😳😳☻️
It still baffles me how some people are just oblivious to the outsider test of faith.
I find the jargon DD uses to be hilarious. "Ultimate and metaphysically primary." It sounds like some sci-fi story using scientific jargon that doesn't make any sense in the real world.
It's one of his main tactics. Try to 1) sound smart and 2) confuse the opposition.
It *is* sci-fi. What's remarkable is when people like that then insist that, because *you* don't go around talking about something being "ultimate and metaphysically primary," you alone must have a difficult time determining what is right and wrong. But because they have defined this nebulous thing that doesn't even seem to exist as "the thing that makes it clear to me what is right and wrong," they don't have any of that difficulty.
What is hard to understand about the words "ultimate" and "metaphysically primary" in a philosophical debate?
These are very well known words and not even close to jargon.
Theism vs Atheism is a philosophical debate between two opposing philosophical positions, you know that right? So using philosophical terms is not unexpected?
The reason why it sounds like gibberish to you guys is because of your Scientism.
You guys are focused only on science, and you guys irrationally dismiss philosophy as "just opinions" because you guys don't know anything about it.
Rejection of fallacious god claims isn’t a philosophical position; it’s a rational one.
If the Hindu triad is incoherent, then the christian "trinity" is equally so. It's great when someone takes Darth's argument(s) and throws it back at him. When that happens Darth usually begins spewing insults, and then either runs away or launches into a new word-salad that's absolutely meaningless.
Amazing, darth said that the trinity _cannot_ be what is ultimate.
Also the Freudian slip at 8:24 - I was over~... you were over talking me
DarthDawkins.exe has stopped working
There has been a critical error and evolution false needs to restart
I dunno, that would imply it was working at some point - lol
@@tommoore6356 Doesn't have to restart. I say we leave it off!
Unboot
Gods damn, that was the greatest Darth takedown I’ve seen. Total destruction, and leaving him sounding so humbled and hobbled at the end there. Made my day.
This is BEAUTIFUL. Bravo, Chris, bravo.
I aim to please :)
This a (hypothetical) god-tier troll. 😂
7:25 just love that part where Darth is so shaken ‘So so it just came to you then? taptaptaptap’ rapidly tapping his pen on the desk in fury.
Darth is rhe ultimate crybully
Doesn't show his face or use his real name but expects people to take him seriously? Lol
Well played. 👍
Thank you good sir!
When he doesn't like the way the conversation he starts crying...
Bravo, one of the best discussions with the anonymous bully Darth I’ve ever seen
What Darth doesn’t realise is that I am his Lord.
It was revealed to me.
Damn you I just tried to wipe a reasonable sized ant off my screen, I live in Australia so it's a thing
The triggering.... Oh I really enjoyed that... Well done
I really wish he had a camera on just so I could have seen the confusion and rage on his face!
This is gold. Presups are a waste of time and this tactic should be the default once one starts spewing their bulls**t
That debate lead me to subscribing to your channel if I remember correctly. I think you did well, especially considering Darth's well known smear tactics.
Glad to have you here :)
One of the rare times the moderator actually made dd shut up and let his opponent talk. I love this Atheist Pastor,really had a great approach. 😅
I watched the whole conversation. It was so sad. I wished you said to DD "ok well let's reverse it, I will say that if you are not an atheist then everything you say is not coherent and nothing you say matters." This is literally what DD seems to say to everyone. He has one card in his deck and that card is "if you don't have the same beliefs I do then nothing you say and nothing you do matters".
This was so good! Mate I've subscribed, I'm a fan. The moment where DD realised he had his arguments used against him and tried to get back into his script was so good! Imma go back and watch it again
Glad you enjoyed it. I know I did
Hahaha this was really funny. Darth recognised that the argument was invalid but could not come out and say it because it's his argument! Love when this is done well great job
Thanks for doing this. I’ve always wondered how such a conversation would go :)
This. Was. Brilliant! Jay is my new God. Ultimate and Absolute.
You got played Darth! LOL! Your script failed you epically!
🤣😂😆
"If you wanna present me with evidence, I'll convert you on the spot" ;-)
That would be interesting.
It's clear that when they were both muted and being given a "talking to," that Darth is not actually in this to listen or have a conversation. He just kept on talking not listening to the moderator. He has a script that he's going to use by Gawd, and nothing will deter him.
🤣
This was so beautiful!!! All of the sudden he didn’t think you were wanting to have “a serious conversation” & your arguments were stupid...go figure 🤯
He doesn’t take “HIS OWN” arguments serious...🤣
The funny thing I've realized recently is that DD insults other people with things that often apply more appropriately to himself than their intended target. So it's funny to see him up against his own strategy, since any insult he chooses will be directly pitted against himself as well xD
The last sentence is the most telling and has no possibility of the dishonest poltroon that calls himself (currently) DD answering. “Would you like to present me evidence for your (circular) assertions’”
Strewth, Chris! This is gold! 👌🏼
Cheers Pasta Mike
Darth tasting his own foul recipe............... and then complaining that it tastes like shit
Darth is the guy who handles dog poop all day then tells other people they smell kinda farty.
Very much enjoyed that, the moment DD realises he is rejecting his own belief models it sounds like he is making his own dance remix he is back pedalling that fast. Just goes to show logic is an easy thing to apply to everyone else's arguments except your own, congratulations on executing a great idea. Looking forward to checking out more of your content.
That made my day.
Glad to hear it. It was a hell of a lot of fun!
Atheist Pastor Poor Gary sounds so immensely unhappy and hollow. I sincerely feel sorry for him.
@@simonwj6404 I used to but the way he acts he really brings it on himself
Atheist Pastor yeah, fair point
Atheist Pastor is the only person I’ve seen effectively deal with Darth Dawkins.
Pinecreek just asked him about Jesus and that infuriated him. Alex Malpass actually had one of the best discussions with him that I've heard.
Shannon Q did well.
Watch Shannon Q point out the fact that he has a script. It's fantastic.
LOL. to hear little Gary Milne go silent when asked for evidence for the god he thinks is real. That should go on his tombstone.
His entire strategy is "I'm right because I assume I'm right". Well so do toddlers. Which explains Gary Milne quite nicely.
Good work. This is honestly the best way to approach DD.
I've analyzed his argument after listening to it a few times.
DD likes to set up the argument where he establishes this exclusive and completely fabricated reference class where only his notion of God applies. He then asks loaded questions to pigeonhole the interlocutor into suggesting otherwise, only to then reject what they said and call them incoherent.
If the individual provides cogent answers to the questions somehow, he will then continue to muddy the waters by asking additional loaded and philosophically obscure questions that he deems necessary to pigeonhole his interlocutor again, repeating the process.
If they give answers that detract from this process, he declares them to be dishonest and trolls and refuses to field questions. When he does allow questioning he provides nothing but trite responses that do nothing to elucidate his reasoning (because he hasn't got any).
He is COMPLETELY uncharitable in discussion, refuses to find any common ground, and labels anyone who gives him the slightest challenge trolls.
The most dishonest interlocutor in history, and this is a timeline that includes Sye Ten Bruggencate. Sye is downright lovely in comparison.
EDIT. Thinking about this makes me realize that DD, in a completely sickening way is fascinating as hell. The only analogy I could think of that compares to the experience of listening to him is looking upon the Elder Scrolls for too long. The man should be labeled an SCP and locked away somewhere bu the Foundation. It's that bad.
You forgot his primary defense mechanism: going meta, AKA 'arguing about the style of the argument' in this case, complaining about being overtalked, when he does it to everyone else.
DD is a sad baby with no balls. It's tragic.
Yea, and there used to be a video up, it was only up for maybe one day, and it was one of his family members talking about gary milne aka darth dawkins, this was the full quote "gary is a very mentally abusive person, he would at times berate his own mother for questioning the bible saying some of it doesent make sense, and at other times would ALMOST get physical with his mother cuz she wouldnt take his word as law about god" do keep in mind i dont know if this is true but it sure fuckin does sound like some shit gary would do.....
Oh, he is definitely an interesting case. A case study, even. The reluctance to show his face or name, the clinging to a script like an infant's security blanket, the exquisite sensitivity, the readiness to engage "fight or flight" when challenged....I'd suggest that deep inside, Darth is a frightened little boy
Gary was telling AP the Hindu trinity CAN NOT BE, then realizes those rules apply to his Christian trinity. immediately throws a tantrum.
I creased up at this.
It's hard not to
Holy fuckberries! You beat him at his own game. That was hilarious!
Someone needs to make chipmunk version of Darth losing it
I love it!!
DD is clearly a troll
You’d think right? But when you look into it you start to realize he’s just really really sad and religion is all he has so he’s willing to defend it even if it means lies on top of more lies, even if he’s telling them to himself :/ kinda feel bad for him
You have revealed that DD has no sense of irony, which reveals his low intelligence and lack of a sense of humor, to go along with the total absence of the self-reflection gene. He is enslaved by his obsession and unable to live life as a normal person, hence the unending troll game.
This was quite enjoyable
Bloody good stuff, any person who gets under Darth Gobshite skin has blood that's worth bottling. Well done mate.
Darth Dawkins (shitty alias by the way) should really acknowledge that he is absolutely wrong; both in life and to his parents who should deny his existence to the grave. He's argumentative and likes to control what isn't his to control.
Well played by the atheist/Hindu.
“Ya know what... let’s call it divine revelation.” Best laugh I’ve had since before the covid changed the world.
Darth deserved every moment. Well done, sir. Well done.
Is DD faceless or just gutless ?!?
I like to think a bit of both.
yes
Who cares he doxxed himself online lmfao, we can google every last piece of info about him that we want to lmfao i bet we could find high school pics of him maybe even his tax records
Who cares he doxxed himself online lmfao, we can google every last piece of info about him that we want to lmfao i bet we could find high school pics of him maybe even his tax records
Darth Dawkins could not persuade a cucumber!
Darth lives by a script he HATES been shown what a dishonest script that is
"It's Devine revelation, prove it's not"
CHECK MATE.....mate!
"The Thunder god of the hebrews" LOL
This never gets old.
That was the DD smackdown by which all other DD smackdowns shall be measured. Pure poetry, mate - good on ya!
I know what talking over somebody is.
But what is over talking somebody?
Darth Dawkins sleeps in a dark room all his life - basically he lives a very Low-Life
Lol, wonderful, all the best to you mate.
Poor sad little Gary Milne humiliated by a bogan !
😀 😃 😄 😁 😆 😅 😂 🤣
This is a roast.. a great one..
DD is a total troll. He doesnt even believe in this stuff. His family told me he is just doing it for the cash. His family described him as agnostic at best.
Give props to DD for at least working up the nerve to argue outside of his echo chamber where he reigns supreme. Of course he wastes the opportunity to run his tired chain of fallacies.
It's the first time I heard DD. I nearly fell asleep listening to his boring monotone voice droning on. It was like being back in church as a kid. I only woke up when he started crying, that was hilarious :-)
Wow. DD got rattled. This was funny 😂
this is one of the best encounters I've ever seen with DD(Gary), he was clearly out of his depth and not able to handle a person who could stand up to him and derail his presup bullsh&t.
Just found your chanel. Keep up the good content! 😃
lol Gary accuses you of lying when he lies every time he says he wants any kind of conversation. I've seen a lot of his "conversations" and they fail any reasonable definition.
"Gentlemen, let's keep it civil."
Unfortunately, DD is a participant, so virtually no chance of that.
Hehe enjoyed this one
So did I....maybe a little too much!
DD missed an opportunity. When AP answered "Same as the Father, Son and Holy Spirit," DD should've followed up with "And what is that Father, Son and Holy Spirit relationship like? Explain it to me."
Literally you can say anything is ultimate with a non-monounal nature, and when he asks “well how do you know that” you say “it is something that is simply true/revealed/set up in a way that you can know” and you basically win
Tracked you down just to sub because of finding this clip somewhere.
‘I came here hoping for a professional conversation!’ 😆 yea ok darth sure
“It works the same as the holy trinity”
Noo....that cannot be “Windows XP log off chime”
These preseups hate it when their little dog and pony show gets derailed.
This is what happens when Darth grabs his light saber the wrong way around, and starts a fight :D
This is the scenario I was hoping for.. I'm 1:30 in, eager to see this play out lol
Oh god damn absolutely fucking destroyed lmao
The best thing is that he is hilariously wrong about Hinduism and still managed to pound Darthikins
Prove that he's wrong about hinduism
3:30 I assumed he has finished. He takes a long time to explain something that was understood.
Darth is always the only one talking and asking all the leading questions, but then claims he's being interrupted if there's a clarification being asked. He's so full of himself. Lol
NPD = Narcissistic Personality Disorder.
Never forget, Gary: Nobody loves you.
I’d love to troll DD.
That was as comprehensive an exposure as I've seen of the fact that DDs "argument" is simply a series of unproven assertions. It helped that the moderator - at least in this excerpt - kept a tight leash on things, since DD heavily relies on tactics that would never be allowed in anything like a formal debate.
sounds like matt slick
...presupps have all the questions and no answers. Have seen this same tactic over, and over, ad nauseum. Quick-shoot question after question after question, but when they are asked a question they immediately fold. #typical
Brilliant stuff from the Chris
Brilliant!! Poor darth was hit up the face with his own shit. 👏👏👏
Darth didnt have his script for this. Smackdown deluxe
Hi
When Darth often argued that atheism isn't grounded in any absolute or ultimate (he loves the word ultimate) way which is to mean that knowledge can't be known etc etc because its all arbitrary, what is the objection to that? That there is no requirement for an absolute or ultimate anything?
I think technically Lord Krishna is the ultimate Supreme Personality of Godhead... He has many forms but they are all Him... He said so in my head lol... This was great.
Brilliant