I got some 5" bookshelf speakers that were lauded as really good, musical speakers. People told me they have a lot of bass and that they're amazing. When I got them I was absolutely underwhelmed because it felt so distant and removed from the music, and songs didn't sound like how I knew they should because I had really good headphones that did great at bass. I used a crappy 8" sub that I took from my logitech system and despite it being absolutely trash, it still improved the sound when I properly blended it in. Now I have a 10" woofer (Polk PSW10) that initially just was boomy and peaky and would chuff terribly below 35Hz. I plugged the port with a t-shirt to tighten it up and it worked absolute wonders and made it tight and musical. Blended in the volume perfectly with my speakers and it's such a coherent system now. Sometimes I think "is the sub even on?" and then I just turn it off and notice a HUGE difference in "realism" or "body" of sound. It's really the case of "you don't know what you have till it's gone". Can't go back to a subless system ever.
Hi Paul. I can remember reading Richard Lord recommending that same "swap places" technique 20 years ago. I also remember his comment that you should not be able to hear the subwoofer, you should only be able to hear its absence if you switch it off.
Invaluable advice thank you. I've almost been binge watching your videos. Enjoying your mild-mannered modulated way of communicating your intellect. Much appreciated. 👍👍👌🙂
I had a 5.0 system for 20 years. Thanks to videos like yours I invested in a sub woofer recently and it truly has transformed my listening. For music and movies. Phenomenal. The problem however with your technique of placement is that the best place for subwoofer may be totally impractical depending upon living space available. This is the case for me but I'm happy with the results all the same.
Excellent advice, when I bought my first home theater setup, the guy at my local stereo shop ( Roe Photo ) told me to do the exact same thing and even my wife enjoyed movies and music. except she didn't like holding the sub woofer in her seat... still can't figure out why, it sounds amazing
I think I read some time ago(in a book on acoustics or maybe psychoacoustics) that our brain actually fills in low frequencies when they are missing. This probably isn't quite as good as having a system with true deep base/ low-end sound, but it likely does make up for some of the deficiency. Well, despite my above commentary, I can attest from personal experience that a subwoofer does make a difference. I had a decent sub to go with my bookshelf speakers, and together the system sounded pretty good, but after the sub blew out I could tell the difference. I wouldn't say the difference is major, like night and day, but there is a sense that something is missing, just a depth and presence of sound, a subtle fullness that isn't there now.
Hi Paul, thanks for the information. What if it is not feasible to place the sub in the main listening chair? I ask this because my sub weighs 155 lbs and I am unable to lift it...in any case it would probably not fit in my chair. Thanks
You don't necessarily have to put it physically on the chair. If the chair is easily moved, you can put it in the same place as you would your chair and get close to the same effect.
1) Move the seating it of the way, prop the sub up on something else, and place it where the seating would be . 2) If (1) is not possible, but a USB measurement mic (calibrated is preferred, the UMIK-1 for instance). Connect the mic to your laptop and use Room EQ Wizard. Play a frequency sweep and measure it (at the listening position. Then move the sub a foot or two and measure again. Repeat. Pick the placement which has the least peaks and dips. 3) For no money, get a free app on your phone that has a real time frequency analyzer. The Audio Technica support app for iOS has one, it’s only ~10Hz increments, but you get what you don’t pay for.
What about time alignment? Unless your sub is the same distance fro your listening position as your mains you will get a difference in arrival times for the direct sound which will smear frequencies around your chosen crossover point. Thoughts?
Adjust your phase on the sub. Any decent avr will correct for that as well but most decent subs have a phase dial to adjust the "pulse" timing, as you say.
If you use the SW at listening spot trick please remember that also the height matters. The sub should be at ear level and the person searching for the spot should crawl on the floor ears at a level where the sub's drivers would be.
HI Paul, I recently bought a small sub for my small room and I cannot believe the detail I am hearing now, the sound is super smooth with so much more musical detail that I never heard before. If I raised the sub volume, the voices and accompanying music, start to get "bury" in the back, the perfect point setting is where voices and bass get blended perfectly with each other creating a much larger and clearer musical picture, if you will.
hi ... i have a 3.1 soundbar, .. confusing with the setting of the decibel.. by default, it is set 0 dc for my my main speakers(left,right and centre) and also set to 0 dc for my sub.. i have placed my sub close to main speakers ,as suggested by the product technician.. hope can get your advice and opinion as i believe adjusting the decibel level (higher or lower) can improve the overall performance... thank u in advance 😳
I agree! Most people do not know. Sub's pick-up the sound's impression that is not without! There is a lot more, but no matter how good you think your system is, a sub would be so subliminal with not over or under expecting a sound with a sub. Long statement, but so true! It will be noticed, and appreciated
I can no longer live without a sub or two. My 5 inch speakers don't produce any bass, and I know that even though my system is very revealing there is a whole lot of information that is missing in this realm.
Coming from the UK originally, and now an American, I've got into the idea of subs late in life. UK thinking on this, as you know Paul, is to treat subs as the antichrist in a two channel system. Dual subs is the way to go and I actually didn't have to buy a high end subwoofer set up to get unobtrusive "invisible" bass that is totally seamless with my Thiel CS 3.5s. Even vocal presence is hugely enhanced. Have mine set at 80hz.
Very useful advice. Expecting my sub KEF KUBE 12b to arrive in a week. (REL is not available in the UAE where i live) I have Klipsch Hersey IIIs on about 7 inch tall stands and tilted by 7 degrees as per their original bases, driven by a DIY SE tube amp 10Wpc. Chose KEF as they have speaker level input as you recommended to use for stereo applications in another video. What could be the starting setting of crossover frequency for the sub when I start with the setup? Room is 30' x 15" with speakers on a long side , two sofas and and a book shelf on opposite side, a glass window to the for the entire width of 15' with drapes over it, some plant pots along that side.
I love this, but my 2.1 system is restricted due 2 the length of my cords that is connected to my system, iIl have a very restricted area to move around my spekers, for me to put my sub under the sofa while having the rest of the speakers in fronte of me is a nono. What to do? =S
Trying to connect to a Polk subwoofer that is entirely wireless. The only cord that is connected to it is the power cord... no input or output jacks. My soundbar, ZVox AV155 does have pin plug output jack for it's intended subwoofer. Any ideas on how this could be make to work...??
Paul, I've heard of this method many times. What about dealing with room modes by using two or more subs? This method goes out the window, correct? Can you do the crawl technique you describe, with multiple subs?
That’s for single subwoofer if you were to swap the listening position… But you have always recommended two subs, no?! So do I put two subwoofers at the listening position and then what? Suppose the subs have two cones firing on both sides and put them right next to each other? Won’t the two cones from each sub firing at close proximity to each other and that won’t create any bump in a certain frequency? Or do I reorientate the non cone side (flat surface) to each other? This makes more sense. Then walk around the room and find two best locations for the subs? Then do I put the same orientation as manufacturer intended or the reposition orientation ( rotated 90 degrees)? Thanks in advance, Paul.
I like this talk. It points to why a "good system" is subjective and can't be defined. Your brain is a filter. What you are consciously aware of hearing is not the whole experience. What is above and below your conscious awareness still affects the experience. There's a reason why pipe organs go below 16Hz.
So many people think subs are for "big boomin' bass", for home theaters, stereos, PA systems etc. I have to explain that, no, they're to extend the response of the system lower. Using them for anything else makes for a terrible sounding system. If you want big boomin' bass, turn up the bass.
Hello, thank you for sharing! I have the B&W ASW608 sub I just purchased. I have a Denon 9.2 receiver. Do I connect both "line out" cables to the receiver, or just one? Sorry, new to being an audiophile. I have a B&W 9.1 setup going (2 atmos speakers included)
Do let me know how it works out plz Just ordered the b&w db4s sub, and I have the 702 s2 speakers. Im new to subs and dont know how to set it up right, for now.
I agree with Mr.Paul, sub. its must have in your sound system, I have many big speakers even with two bass drivers but I always feel that some of the recorded bass on vinyl is missing, I have notice that cheaper PC speakers like my Altec Lansing 621 have better response on lower freq., I was changing speakers, receivers... but low bass like on my ALtec or Creative speakers never came up, until one day I have buy my first Kenwood active sub. this was game changer and today always in any setup must have powered sub. even small micro HiFi receiver must have mono-sub.out for me. Its good to have sub. with adjust. crossover. My choice of subs are JVC, good sound, very good bass drivers, amplifier el.section are mostly separate in metal box from driver, many of them have a beside volume control a crossover control and on the and they go very low.
"Even with two bass drivers" 🤣 yeah, its pretty common with 2 and 3 bass drivers😅 does not mean anything, u can have o bass drivers and they dont deliver any real punch.
Onkyo receiver subwoofer issues I tried every subwoofer connection only time it plays when I reset Onkyo receiver then turn everything off back on no subwoofer
The old dcm kx-12 series 2 don't need a sub when powered by a technics sa-ax6. Although i did have a couple hooked up for a while till they arced out one day. I love this channel, next time im in boulder im gonna swing by.
Wrong, that would work if you have a room mirrored one half and the other. Since that is not the case sound from the sub is going to get to the listener deferent as its surrounding changes the couch, table so on also i hope no one is going to put their woofer on their sit to test it. I am almost convince you are pulling someones leg considering years of experience and knowledge you poses.
I hear all kinds of great spot on recommendations on setup but to be perfectly honest you can't possibly believe that people can just finish a quest such as what you suggested and then go plop that sub down in the only spot that sounded just right. It's just not practical. What people need is a real world solution for finding a place to put that cube. Without better recommendations and practical advise your solution more often that not ends up being at best a decorators worst nightmare or worse a tripping hazard.
I am very glad to hear a bona fide esoteric audio nut extol the virtues of low bass and subwoofers. I am a proud, typically American, proponent of full bass. I never understood the notion of bookshelf speakers on stands without subwoofers or sounds below 50Hz as the epitome of "accuracy" in audio reproduction.
The problem is that ppl can normally not set them up properly. The method Paul lists above is also gone out with the bathwater...you need some possibility in your preamp/processor to set the correct ACOUSTICAL distance, not the physical one. So, measuring the distance to your sub with cm/inches is also useless if we talk about PROPER integration. All plate amps have delays.
I am a huge base freak and have been for 50 years. I explained it to my wife like this watching a movie without base is like watching a movie and only getting half the experience.
This does not happen very often to me Paul, I thought I knew almost everything about hi-fi, but your advice here is like one of those Homer Simpson moments where after you hear it, you just smack yourself on the forehead and go Doh! What brilliant advice! Thank you so much for sharing it. I really don’t think I have ever heard this advice before, not in the hi-fi shops where I worked, and not during home installations, or even the various hi-fi magazines I used to subscribe to while I was in the industry. I can’t believe I’ve never heard of it before. Again, thank you!
It's all about the depth of the sound with a subwoofer. My McIntosh MA352 amplifier has a switch to shutoff the sub outputs. When I flip it off while the music is playing, the depth totally disappears and everything sounds so thin and flat. I use a pair of SVS SB3000 subs with my KEF LS50 Meta speakers. I have them crossed over at 60hz, 0 phase, and positive polarity. Sounds soooooooo GOOD!!!
Hey Paul pls send your garbage to my house ill pay shipping costs. I love your videos i spent all my money on my house and never have any left over for my stereo i need an amp and sub to keep me from selling my body. I don't care if it's broken. 304 shallow lake Ontario. YOUR VIDEOS ARE MY ONLY PEACE. Love Mike.😊
Question: I just received a Yamaha soundbar and a SHU sub... I tried hooking it up to my bedroom TV (Sony A9S Oled 48"), The light's are on on the Sub, I have the sub connected to the Soundbar but there's no sound from the sub. The soundbar plays but not the sub. Suggestions? Thank you Joe
If you have an adjustable low pass filter is there a rule-of-thumb you should follow when determining what low frequencies are sent to the sub? If your bookshelves start at 45hz and your subwoofer can go as high as 100 hz, does this mean you would set the low pass at 45hz or should you go as high as the sub will reach?
I think 80-100 is about where people roll off the sub. I would also maybe get a set of headphones, listen to music, and try to get the same balance/sound from your speakers & sub.
Since you want the sub to be inaudible at frequencies high enough to enable listeners to "hear" the sub's location, and since frequencies lower than 80Hz are increasingly non-directional, it is probably best to start at
choose how high you wish your sub to go, i recommend ~80 for lower order crossover and ~100 for higher order one then cross the sub and the mains over at that same frequency this is important, if there's an overlap between the mains and the sub, the sub will never blend because when there's an overlap in frequency response, the sub no longer acts as an integral part of the system anymore but acts as an extension/augmentation/whatever you call it and that's not a good thing (and doesn't sound good). it's not recommended to cross over at the bottom of the mains because bottoming anything even a subwoofer can destroy the driver easily and it sounds bad due to resonance. it's best to set the frequencies at least 1 octave higher than resonant frequency and 1 octave lower than beaming frequency of that particular driver.
That 100hz 'maximum' is complete bunk. Not saying you can do it but it's no hard rule, and I don't use pedestrian subwoofers. After playing around a fair bit and treating 100hz as a third rail I tried and left mine @140hz and no, I still can't localize them.
Hi Paul, excellent explanation, but I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t posted the video link of John setting up the Subs at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. It would be very helpful! Keep-on listening… music 🎶 Thank you!
Paul: The term I use to define Low frequencies is "Floor". The actual volume of a recording is determined by "Floor". If recorded accurately, "Floor" tells all! So many "Compress", and we loose all that Info. Rock On Buddy!
Hi ps audio. I just got some kef q550 (rated down to 60hz) but the bass doesn't match my q55.2's (which were rated to 40hz). Do you think 10 inch, 8 inch, or even dual 6 inch subs would be better deep but not super deep like I used to have? As you say - I don't really want to hear the sub is there.
Hi Paul, I have my crossover frequency set to 80 Hz on my amplifier, would you say that that is pretty ideal? I noticed in your video that you say that you don’t like to set your frequency higher than 100 Hz. This is the reason why I have set my crossover frequency at 80, it won’t go any lower.
Hi Dude, I have a Denon x3600H 9.2 Av receiver. So can you suggest me the low budget speaker system. How many speakers doses it need ? Which is better Klipsch or Polk audio? Thank you.
If I run speaker leads from the amp L+R speaker output to the 8 ohm sub woofer L+R input, then from the sub's speaker outputs to the 8 ohm loudspeakers' inputs, will that change the impedance? My amp is now set for 8 ohm speakers.
Problem I have with just about every subwoofer I've ever heard is transient response is shit. They sound great for sustained bass, but for percussion they turn individual drum strikes into rumble, low frequency white noise.
Full range tower speakers are typically crossed- over at way above 100hz, for the low crossover, especiallywith budget towers. Why is there a bass localization talk when it comes to crossing over your sub, with your towers, at above 100hz?..
I have a question my car has a stock 8 in Bose sub and a 300 watt amp but when I upgraded my cars audio system by adding a new double din head unit with a12in Rockford forsgate subwoffer and 600 watt 2 channel Rockford fosgate and was not able to use factory system is there a way that I could still run my 8in sub and 300 watt amp both on there own system ? There's a bit of toss up saying that the wires to amps would be to close and would give distortion
Can't you just walk around and see where the good spots are and then measure that distance to the sub.....and then see how far that is from your seat and how far the sub has to move? I feel that's at least a good starting point. unless you have 20 ft sub cables that you can take to your seat
Not sure if you filter out the peaks. But by doing this method you find out where the sub is most efficient so you don't have to crank it that much to produce good bass. Still good advice though
hi, do you do the subwoofer swapping couch test you perform the home theatre calibration testing (as in the tone testing using mic to calibrate the entire home theatre system, including sub)?
My system sounds like I have a great subwoofer but I don't have a subwoofer. I once heard the sound of a truck rolling by outside and thought that can't be so I lifted my stylus and played the same part again and heard the same truck outside but there was no truck outside. There is nothing like electrostatic bass but the real thing. I have heard many subwoofers but they do nothing for me.
Hi Mr. McGowan. You were asked about 2 Sub woofers not 1. I am binge-watching as much of you as possible. This one slipped away from me and need to know what your answer is for 2 Sub Woofers....! Kindest Regards Robert Lang
Sorry. The setup for 2 subs is essentially the same as for one using the chair trick. Just do them one at a time,. Put the one in the listening chair and walk around the right side of the room to find the best spot and then repeat the process for the left side of the room.
subwoofer are a huge boon to a system, i always had them in one size or another. right now i upgraded my nearfield system with bigger speakers, now i get better midbass and i can set my subwoofer to 60hz and get lower bass and better integration with speakers. its a whole new world of deep bass out there, waiting to be discovered. even acoustic guitars when they hit the wood.
I just bought a budget REL HT 1003 hoping it’s going to improve my very cheap tannoy SFX subwoofer , I’m here because I love this mans advice and videos.
Not saying the sub-crawl is a bad idea, but it only works with somewhat normally shaped rooms in my opinion. If you have a room shaped like a horn then putting the sub on one side and then the other will react differently. Ps. You should do a child-show type mail song before you open the mail.
my ML sub suggests 70% of low end of bookshelf frequency response for crossover.eg @ 80 on bookshelf it would be 56 hz on sub .does that make sense to you?
Hello Paul, Knowing that you adore Mahler symphonies, and regarding a particular recording with HVAC rumble in it, I might guide you to Mahler's Resurrection Symphony on Telarc with the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra as conducted by Leonard Slatkin. In the beginning of the fourth movement (when my subwoofer is used), I "almost" perceive its presence there -- until the HVAC effect is shut off in the same recording, evidently a different take. I had owned this recording for a few decades, but it wasn't until I acquired a decent powered subwoofer and adjusted it properly, that I noticed this effect of "something missing" when the recording goes into the new take and the HVAC element has been removed. Cheers, Joe
Love my old Telarc red label LPs. So much dynamic range and close to the sound of the real thing. Made with a custom digital recorder. The CDs suck in comparison though with poorer dynamic range and they almost sound like a different symphony is playing. I would guess that maybe since it was sampled at 50k and 44.1 is not a multiple so it doesn't convert well to CD.
I Love Subwoofers and Bass is general. Thank you for all the informative Videos and Time spent to Talk about HiFi. Congratulations on 100k Subscribers. Well deserved ! Regards from Munich City-Germany.
Hi Paul.. thanks for clearing up the most important confusion regarding the placement of a sub.. I have been able to make one myself, and the amp is a class D amp available from Amazon. It's kind of filtering upto 70 hz.... I was very sad at it's performance... Both the amp and the sub enclo8..... But it surely does well when placed in a different location in a room... thanks anyways. wish I could come and work for you, but it's more than impossible in the current situation
Can I come in to your company and show you my 2 speaker system with a subwoofer and give me some advice on my system and how to set it up and settings for my subwoofer. I live in Denver by the way.
Ok, but your new PS Audio speakers have built-in subs. How would you set those up? You can't set them up for imaging etc AND for subwoofer efficiency with the same methods, right?
“Don’t draw attention”
Me- 14 12 inch subs in my tiny bedroom.
I got some 5" bookshelf speakers that were lauded as really good, musical speakers. People told me they have a lot of bass and that they're amazing. When I got them I was absolutely underwhelmed because it felt so distant and removed from the music, and songs didn't sound like how I knew they should because I had really good headphones that did great at bass. I used a crappy 8" sub that I took from my logitech system and despite it being absolutely trash, it still improved the sound when I properly blended it in. Now I have a 10" woofer (Polk PSW10) that initially just was boomy and peaky and would chuff terribly below 35Hz. I plugged the port with a t-shirt to tighten it up and it worked absolute wonders and made it tight and musical. Blended in the volume perfectly with my speakers and it's such a coherent system now. Sometimes I think "is the sub even on?" and then I just turn it off and notice a HUGE difference in "realism" or "body" of sound. It's really the case of "you don't know what you have till it's gone". Can't go back to a subless system ever.
Hi Paul. I can remember reading Richard Lord recommending that same "swap places" technique 20 years ago. I also remember his comment that you should not be able to hear the subwoofer, you should only be able to hear its absence if you switch it off.
Highest accuracy audio systems without subwoofers seem to some extent to be analogous to full range pipe organs without 32 foot pipes.
Invaluable advice thank you. I've almost been binge watching your videos. Enjoying your mild-mannered modulated way of communicating your intellect. Much appreciated. 👍👍👌🙂
I had a 5.0 system for 20 years. Thanks to videos like yours I invested in a sub woofer recently and it truly has transformed my listening. For music and movies. Phenomenal. The problem however with your technique of placement is that the best place for subwoofer may be totally impractical depending upon living space available. This is the case for me but I'm happy with the results all the same.
I think you may be my dad's long lost brother you and my dad sound identical talking about speakers.
My tiny living room with one 10" subwoofer, in the middle of two front tower speakers. Awesome sound, all around the room!
Haha nice, I bought a 1000watt 18" woofer yesterday
wow paul...I ve played in 5 bands in 30 yrs and also did sound/mixer work...did not know this....again..thanks for the expert advice!!!!
Excellent advice, when I bought my first home theater setup, the guy at my local stereo shop ( Roe Photo ) told me to do the exact same thing and even my wife enjoyed movies and music. except she didn't like holding the sub woofer in her seat... still can't figure out why, it sounds amazing
When subwoofers where integrated in av reciever this was the way I did the setup,work like a charm.
I think I read some time ago(in a book on acoustics or maybe psychoacoustics) that our brain actually fills in low frequencies when they are missing. This probably isn't quite as good as having a system with true deep base/ low-end sound, but it likely does make up for some of the deficiency.
Well, despite my above commentary, I can attest from personal experience that a subwoofer does make a difference. I had a decent sub to go with my bookshelf speakers, and together the system sounded pretty good, but after the sub blew out I could tell the difference. I wouldn't say the difference is major, like night and day, but there is a sense that something is missing, just a depth and presence of sound, a subtle fullness that isn't there now.
Paul, you are the Bob Ross of audio!
Hi Paul, thanks for the information. What if it is not feasible to place the sub in the main listening chair? I ask this because my sub weighs 155 lbs and I am unable to lift it...in any case it would probably not fit in my chair. Thanks
You don't necessarily have to put it physically on the chair. If the chair is easily moved, you can put it in the same place as you would your chair and get close to the same effect.
1) Move the seating it of the way, prop the sub up on something else, and place it where the seating would be .
2) If (1) is not possible, but a USB measurement mic (calibrated is preferred, the UMIK-1 for instance). Connect the mic to your laptop and use Room EQ Wizard. Play a frequency sweep and measure it (at the listening position. Then move the sub a foot or two and measure again. Repeat. Pick the placement which has the least peaks and dips.
3) For no money, get a free app on your phone that has a real time frequency analyzer. The Audio Technica support app for iOS has one, it’s only ~10Hz increments, but you get what you don’t pay for.
What about time alignment? Unless your sub is the same distance fro your listening position as your mains you will get a difference in arrival times for the direct sound which will smear frequencies around your chosen crossover point. Thoughts?
Adjust your phase on the sub. Any decent avr will correct for that as well but most decent subs have a phase dial to adjust the "pulse" timing, as you say.
If you use the SW at listening spot trick please remember that also the height matters. The sub should be at ear level and the person searching for the spot should crawl on the floor ears at a level where the sub's drivers would be.
How a downfiring subwoofer will ever be at ear level?
HI Paul, I recently bought a small sub for my small room and I cannot believe the detail I am hearing now, the sound is super smooth with so much more musical detail that I never heard before. If I raised the sub volume, the voices and accompanying music, start to get "bury" in the back, the perfect point setting is where voices and bass get blended perfectly with each other creating a much larger and clearer musical picture, if you will.
Same here man!!! It's really a whole different world! I absolutely love the subwoofer
hi ... i have a 3.1 soundbar, .. confusing with the setting of the decibel.. by default, it is set 0 dc for my my main speakers(left,right and centre) and also set to 0 dc for my sub.. i have placed my sub close to main speakers ,as suggested by the product technician.. hope can get your advice and opinion as i believe adjusting the decibel level (higher or lower) can improve the overall performance... thank u in advance 😳
I agree! Most people do not know. Sub's pick-up the sound's impression that is not without! There is a lot more, but no matter how good you think your system is, a sub would be so subliminal with not over or under expecting a sound with a sub. Long statement, but so true! It will be noticed, and appreciated
I can no longer live without a sub or two. My 5 inch speakers don't produce any bass, and I know that even though my system is very revealing there is a whole lot of information that is missing in this realm.
Coming from the UK originally, and now an American, I've got into the idea of subs late in life. UK thinking on this, as you know Paul, is to treat subs as the antichrist in a two channel system. Dual subs is the way to go and I actually didn't have to buy a high end subwoofer set up to get unobtrusive "invisible" bass that is totally seamless with my Thiel CS 3.5s. Even vocal presence is hugely enhanced. Have mine set at 80hz.
Very useful advice.
Expecting my sub KEF KUBE 12b to arrive in a week. (REL is not available in the UAE where i live) I have Klipsch Hersey IIIs on about 7 inch tall stands and tilted by 7 degrees as per their original bases, driven by a DIY SE tube amp 10Wpc. Chose KEF as they have speaker level input as you recommended to use for stereo applications in another video. What could be the starting setting of crossover frequency for the sub when I start with the setup?
Room is 30' x 15" with speakers on a long side , two sofas and and a book shelf on opposite side, a glass window to the for the entire width of 15' with drapes over it, some plant pots along that side.
I love this, but my 2.1 system is restricted due 2 the length of my cords that is connected to my system, iIl have a very restricted area to move around my spekers, for me to put my sub under the sofa while having the rest of the speakers in fronte of me is a nono.
What to do? =S
Trying to connect to a Polk subwoofer that is entirely wireless. The only cord that is connected to it is the power cord... no input or output jacks. My soundbar, ZVox AV155 does have pin plug output jack for it's intended subwoofer. Any ideas on how this could be make to work...??
The best way is to get a measurement microphone, they're fairly cheap, that way you stop guessing and taking subjective measurements.
Paul, I've heard of this method many times. What about dealing with room modes by using two or more subs? This method goes out the window, correct? Can you do the crawl technique you describe, with multiple subs?
Hi Paul! How about 2 subwoofers? How to easily setup 2 of those suckers?
🎵 How do i connect my 120 Klipsch subwoofer to the NAD c316 bee amplifier? 🎵Amp doesn't have one!
I am adding a sub and your video helps.. thanks
That’s for single subwoofer if you were to swap the listening position… But you have always recommended two subs, no?! So do I put two subwoofers at the listening position and then what? Suppose the subs have two cones firing on both sides and put them right next to each other? Won’t the two cones from each sub firing at close proximity to each other and that won’t create any bump in a certain frequency? Or do I reorientate the non cone side (flat surface) to each other? This makes more sense. Then walk around the room and find two best locations for the subs? Then do I put the same orientation as manufacturer intended or the reposition orientation ( rotated 90 degrees)? Thanks in advance, Paul.
I like this talk. It points to why a "good system" is subjective and can't be defined. Your brain is a filter. What you are consciously aware of hearing is not the whole experience. What is above and below your conscious awareness still affects the experience. There's a reason why pipe organs go below 16Hz.
Hi Paul my great-grandfather had Alzheimer's I do know what the signs are my friend I'm sorry Paul thanks and have a great day😢
So many people think subs are for "big boomin' bass", for home theaters, stereos, PA systems etc. I have to explain that, no, they're to extend the response of the system lower. Using them for anything else makes for a terrible sounding system. If you want big boomin' bass, turn up the bass.
Hello, thank you for sharing! I have the B&W ASW608 sub I just purchased. I have a Denon 9.2 receiver. Do I connect both "line out" cables to the receiver, or just one? Sorry, new to being an audiophile. I have a B&W 9.1 setup going (2 atmos speakers included)
Do let me know how it works out plz
Just ordered the b&w db4s sub, and I have the 702 s2 speakers. Im new to subs and dont know how to set it up right, for now.
I agree with Mr.Paul, sub. its must have in your sound system, I have many big speakers even with two bass drivers but I always feel that some of the recorded bass on vinyl is missing, I have notice that cheaper PC speakers like my Altec Lansing 621 have better response on lower freq., I was changing speakers, receivers... but low bass like on my ALtec or Creative speakers never came up, until one day I have buy my first Kenwood active sub. this was game changer and today always in any setup must have powered sub. even small micro HiFi receiver must have mono-sub.out for me. Its good to have sub. with adjust. crossover.
My choice of subs are JVC, good sound, very good bass drivers, amplifier el.section are mostly separate in metal box from driver, many of them have a beside volume control a crossover control and on the and they go very low.
"Even with two bass drivers" 🤣 yeah, its pretty common with 2 and 3 bass drivers😅 does not mean anything, u can have o bass drivers and they dont deliver any real punch.
My sub is 40 kg.. We can never switch places 😂
Onkyo receiver subwoofer issues I tried every subwoofer connection only time it plays when I reset Onkyo receiver then turn everything off back on no subwoofer
The old dcm kx-12 series 2 don't need a sub when powered by a technics sa-ax6. Although i did have a couple hooked up for a while till they arced out one day. I love this channel, next time im in boulder im gonna swing by.
Wrong, that would work if you have a room mirrored one half and the other. Since that is not the case sound from the sub is going to get to the listener deferent as its surrounding changes the couch, table so on also i hope no one is going to put their woofer on their sit to test it. I am almost convince you are pulling someones leg considering years of experience and knowledge you poses.
Step one, put it exactly where you want it. Does it sound good yes leave it. Step two, move it somewhere else. Repeat
What about the second sub
I hear all kinds of great spot on recommendations on setup but to be perfectly honest you can't possibly believe that people can just finish a quest such as what you suggested and then go plop that sub down in the only spot that sounded just right. It's just not practical. What people need is a real world solution for finding a place to put that cube. Without better recommendations and practical advise your solution more often that not ends up being at best a decorators worst nightmare or worse a tripping hazard.
Quite the negative nancy
sorry but do to cable lengths impossible to move subs into my listening position...
I am very glad to hear a bona fide esoteric audio nut extol the virtues of low bass and subwoofers. I am a proud, typically American, proponent of full bass. I never understood the notion of bookshelf speakers on stands without subwoofers or sounds below 50Hz as the epitome of "accuracy" in audio reproduction.
The problem is that ppl can normally not set them up properly. The method Paul lists above is also gone out with the bathwater...you need some possibility in your preamp/processor to set the correct ACOUSTICAL distance, not the physical one. So, measuring the distance to your sub with cm/inches is also useless if we talk about PROPER integration. All plate amps have delays.
I am a huge base freak and have been for 50 years. I explained it to my wife like this watching a movie without base is like watching a movie and only getting half the experience.
This does not happen very often to me Paul, I thought I knew almost everything about hi-fi, but your advice here is like one of those Homer Simpson moments where after you hear it, you just smack yourself on the forehead and go Doh! What brilliant advice! Thank you so much for sharing it.
I really don’t think I have ever heard this advice before, not in the hi-fi shops where I worked, and not during home installations, or even the various hi-fi magazines I used to subscribe to while I was in the industry. I can’t believe I’ve never heard of it before. Again, thank you!
It's all about the depth of the sound with a subwoofer. My McIntosh MA352 amplifier has a switch to shutoff the sub outputs. When I flip it off while the music is playing, the depth totally disappears and everything sounds so thin and flat. I use a pair of SVS SB3000 subs with my KEF LS50 Meta speakers. I have them crossed over at 60hz, 0 phase, and positive polarity. Sounds soooooooo GOOD!!!
Hey Paul pls send your garbage to my house ill pay shipping costs. I love your videos i spent all my money on my house and never have any left over for my stereo i need an amp and sub to keep me from selling my body. I don't care if it's broken. 304 shallow lake Ontario. YOUR VIDEOS ARE MY ONLY PEACE. Love Mike.😊
Ps . I can fix anything.
Question: I just received a Yamaha soundbar and a SHU sub... I tried hooking it up to my bedroom TV (Sony A9S Oled 48"), The light's are on on the Sub, I have the sub connected to the Soundbar but there's no sound from the sub. The soundbar plays but not the sub.
Suggestions?
Thank you
Joe
How to make 6 mins sound ;like an hour.
Starts at 3:30.
What do the dips and bumps are supposed to sound like?
If you have an adjustable low pass filter is there a rule-of-thumb you should follow when determining what low frequencies are sent to the sub? If your bookshelves start at 45hz and your subwoofer can go as high as 100 hz, does this mean you would set the low pass at 45hz or should you go as high as the sub will reach?
I have the same question...
I think 80-100 is about where people roll off the sub. I would also maybe get a set of headphones, listen to music, and try to get the same balance/sound from your speakers & sub.
Since you want the sub to be inaudible at frequencies high enough to enable listeners to "hear" the sub's location, and since frequencies lower than 80Hz are increasingly non-directional, it is probably best to start at
choose how high you wish your sub to go, i recommend ~80 for lower order crossover and ~100 for higher order one then cross the sub and the mains over at that same frequency this is important, if there's an overlap between the mains and the sub, the sub will never blend because when there's an overlap in frequency response, the sub no longer acts as an integral part of the system anymore but acts as an extension/augmentation/whatever you call it and that's not a good thing (and doesn't sound good). it's not recommended to cross over at the bottom of the mains because bottoming anything even a subwoofer can destroy the driver easily and it sounds bad due to resonance. it's best to set the frequencies at least 1 octave higher than resonant frequency and 1 octave lower than beaming frequency of that particular driver.
Thanks for this suggestion...I. gonna try it...I got a odd shaped room so this should help Thanks again 😊 😃 😀
That 100hz 'maximum' is complete bunk. Not saying you can do it but it's no hard rule, and I don't use pedestrian subwoofers. After playing around a fair bit and treating 100hz as a third rail I tried and left mine @140hz and no, I still can't localize them.
Hi Paul, excellent explanation, but I’m a little disappointed that you didn’t posted the video link of John setting up the Subs at the Rocky Mountain Audio Fest. It would be very helpful!
Keep-on listening… music 🎶
Thank you!
Paul: The term I use to define Low frequencies is "Floor". The actual volume of a recording is determined by "Floor". If recorded accurately, "Floor" tells all! So many "Compress", and we loose all that Info. Rock On Buddy!
Hi ps audio. I just got some kef q550 (rated down to 60hz) but the bass doesn't match my q55.2's (which were rated to 40hz).
Do you think 10 inch, 8 inch, or even dual 6 inch subs would be better deep but not super deep like I used to have? As you say - I don't really want to hear the sub is there.
Hi Paul, I have my crossover frequency set to 80 Hz on my amplifier, would you say that that is pretty ideal? I noticed in your video that you say that you don’t like to set your frequency higher than 100 Hz.
This is the reason why I have set my crossover frequency at 80, it won’t go any lower.
Hi Dude, I have a Denon x3600H 9.2 Av receiver. So can you suggest me the low budget speaker system. How many speakers doses it need ? Which is better Klipsch or Polk audio? Thank you.
If I run speaker leads from the amp L+R speaker output to the 8 ohm sub woofer L+R input, then from the sub's speaker outputs to the 8 ohm loudspeakers' inputs, will that change the impedance? My amp is now set for 8 ohm speakers.
Problem I have with just about every subwoofer I've ever heard is transient response is shit. They sound great for sustained bass, but for percussion they turn individual drum strikes into rumble, low frequency white noise.
Hi Paul, great channel, I’m about to take delivery of a pair of KEF LS50 Meta’ with a Cyrus one cast amp. What sub would you recommend please?
Full range tower speakers are typically crossed- over at way above 100hz, for the low crossover, especiallywith budget towers. Why is there a bass localization talk when it comes to crossing over your sub, with your towers, at above 100hz?..
I have a question my car has a stock 8 in Bose sub and a 300 watt amp but when I upgraded my cars audio system by adding a new double din head unit with a12in Rockford forsgate subwoffer and 600 watt 2 channel Rockford fosgate and was not able to use factory system is there a way that I could still run my 8in sub and 300 watt amp both on there own system ? There's a bit of toss up saying that the wires to amps would be to close and would give distortion
Oh, meanwhile we want the bookshelf disappears. So yeah all in all, make the sound comes from room, not speakers. The beauty of hifi
I absolutely love my Subwoofer! It brings SOOOOO much dynamics to the sound, not only that but it makes the music sound ALIVE! lovelovelove
Can't you just walk around and see where the good spots are and then measure that distance to the sub.....and then see how far that is from your seat and how far the sub has to move? I feel that's at least a good starting point. unless you have 20 ft sub cables that you can take to your seat
It really a good trick, but I guess the symmetry from front to back of your room does matter in this setup, thanks very much for the sharing👍🙏👏
Can you put a subwoofer under each speaker?
So you dont waste space
Yeah, unless you play it incredibly loud
Not sure if you filter out the peaks. But by doing this method you find out where the sub is most efficient so you don't have to crank it that much to produce good bass. Still good advice though
hi, do you do the subwoofer swapping couch test you perform the home theatre calibration testing (as in the tone testing using mic to calibrate the entire home theatre system, including sub)?
Perfect timing. BIC Venturi 820s, 52s and a V1000r.
Thanks for the information
The only people who say "I don't need a subwoofer" are people who have never heard a good subwoofer.
It is true . I totally agree. Low frequencies are crutial for a good sound system.
Simply the best explanation. Thank you sir.
Sounds good advice - but what about 2 subs as I have? Does the same trick work?
Great. Subwoofer is absolutely necessary to hear the songs in its better quality
My system sounds like I have a great subwoofer but I don't have a subwoofer. I once heard the sound of a truck rolling by outside and thought that can't be so I lifted my stylus and played the same part again and heard the same truck outside but there was no truck outside. There is nothing like electrostatic bass but the real thing. I have heard many subwoofers but they do nothing for me.
Hi, a special greetings from Colombia South America
Hi Mr. McGowan.
You were asked about 2 Sub woofers not 1.
I am binge-watching as much of you as possible.
This one slipped away from me and need to know what your answer is for 2 Sub Woofers....!
Kindest Regards
Robert Lang
Sorry. The setup for 2 subs is essentially the same as for one using the chair trick. Just do them one at a time,. Put the one in the listening chair and walk around the right side of the room to find the best spot and then repeat the process for the left side of the room.
subwoofer are a huge boon to a system, i always had them in one size or another.
right now i upgraded my nearfield system with bigger speakers, now i get better midbass and i can set my subwoofer to 60hz and get lower bass and better integration with speakers. its a whole new world of deep bass out there, waiting to be discovered. even acoustic guitars when they hit the wood.
Can u use a powered speaker box a a subwoofer
@@goberdhanmarajh4158 if you can put a variably low pass filter to it sure. make sure it has the summed stereo signal if you only use one.
I just bought a budget REL HT 1003 hoping it’s going to improve my very cheap tannoy SFX subwoofer , I’m here because I love this mans advice and videos.
Not saying the sub-crawl is a bad idea, but it only works with somewhat normally shaped rooms in my opinion.
If you have a room shaped like a horn then putting the sub on one side and then the other will react differently.
Ps. You should do a child-show type mail song before you open the mail.
Hold on... gotta go drop my Velodyne 1812 on my La-Z-Boy
Crazy, man...
Paul you are always a joy to listen to thank you for information You are a true professional my rel sub sounds Awesome
Do the crossover setting on stereo pair of rels have to be the same
Then only thing correct is the sub should not be noticed.
I am learning a lot from these videos about subs, Thank you Paul
my ML sub suggests 70% of low end of bookshelf frequency response for crossover.eg @ 80 on bookshelf it would be 56 hz on sub .does that make sense to you?
I have a svs subwoofer and monitors with 55hz low frequency limit and it suggests 80 hz crossover freq with my config on the svs website
I have a CD that goes to 4hz.i could only hear it on headphones, and when I listen to it, and put a Woojer on it makes me sick. Lol
Another bucket list.
I think you are telling about what is known as the "subwoofer crawl", which has been proven as THE best method for placement..great advise..
Hello Paul,
Knowing that you adore Mahler symphonies, and regarding a particular recording with HVAC rumble in it, I might guide you to Mahler's Resurrection Symphony on Telarc with the St. Louis Symphony Orchestra as conducted by Leonard Slatkin. In the beginning of the fourth movement (when my subwoofer is used), I "almost" perceive its presence there -- until the HVAC effect is shut off in the same recording, evidently a different take. I had owned this recording for a few decades, but it wasn't until I acquired a decent powered subwoofer and adjusted it properly, that I noticed this effect of "something missing" when the recording goes into the new take and the HVAC element has been removed.
Cheers,
Joe
Love my old Telarc red label LPs. So much dynamic range and close to the sound of the real thing. Made with a custom digital recorder. The CDs suck in comparison though with poorer dynamic range and they almost sound like a different symphony is playing. I would guess that maybe since it was sampled at 50k and 44.1 is not a multiple so it doesn't convert well to CD.
it was a great subhooferist tip!✈
I Love Subwoofers and Bass is general. Thank you for all the informative Videos and Time spent to Talk about HiFi. Congratulations on 100k Subscribers. Well deserved ! Regards from Munich City-Germany.
Hi Paul.. thanks for clearing up the most important confusion regarding the placement of a sub.. I have been able to make one myself, and the amp is a class D amp available from Amazon. It's kind of filtering upto 70 hz.... I was very sad at it's performance... Both the amp and the sub enclo8..... But it surely does well when placed in a different location in a room... thanks anyways. wish I could come and work for you, but it's more than impossible in the current situation
Can I come in to your company and show you my 2 speaker system with a subwoofer and give me some advice on my system and how to set it up and settings for my subwoofer. I live in Denver by the way.
the guy asked about 2 subs setup, tho
Ok, but your new PS Audio speakers have built-in subs. How would you set those up? You can't set them up for imaging etc AND for subwoofer efficiency with the same methods, right?
you're my favorite old man