@@joshtheguitarplayer7151 which is a good thing? And technically they didn't give it a "massive" boost in PvE, a lot of it was indirectly buffed due to the stasis crystals change anyways
@@nikolaibelinksi8220 yes it is a good thing, sorry that was not clear lol. The stasis crystals detonation change was 60% percent but shatterdive itself buffs shatter damage by 100 percent. Not sure if shatter/detonation damage are separate things or the same.
@@joshtheguitarplayer7151 Crystals deal 100% extra damage against frozen enemies, but you can't freeze guardians anymore So to one shot a guardian in the Crucible, you need to have Whisper of Fissures and Touch of Winter on, while the dude has to be in the middle of your grenade, like exactly the middle They're not frozen anymore so they would actively need to walk into the middle of the grenade to be killed, so that's a change I like
I really like that they are seperating pvp and pve without ruining pve. Now we just need to get dedicated pvp servers lol. Wondering if that means that those changes send gambit to the graveyard tho.
Gambit isn't going anywhere - Joe Blackburn confirmed there are absolutely no plans to remove Gambit, they'll be putting out some updates for Gambit after WQ launches
Destiny is never getting dedicated servers. Not for the foreseeable future, anyway. Bungie isn't going to waste money on that when they have no intentions of making this a "competitive" game.
They honestly need to give gambit some attention imo I know people don't like it but to me it's a great way to fit the pve style.of playing into a.competive field against other players it's need more modes like the crucible like a master mode with champions and other tougher enemies and some other higher difficultly settings (locked weapons , elemental shields etc) and maybe a solo mode or a boss only format
they definitely need to adjust PVP bounties and quests now, since things like grenade kills will be a bitch to clear with those long cooldowns and the having to deal with whether you actually do get a kill or not
The blind on Arc shoulder charge is actually really neat. Void SC already applies a Suppression, and Solar applies Melting Point and DoT. This makes Arc equal in applying an effect instead of having been forgotten simply as "the first shoulder charge there was"
Fun fact, you can in fact kill someone with the Well of Radiance sword. If an enemy is close enough to you, the sword will kill them when you slam it into the ground.
You can also kill them with the wave of damage that comes out when you plant the sword (minimal damage, it's most useful in pve to push enemies away). You can melee and then immediately cast well to burn all but all the highest of resistances.
I believe that Flux Grenades being buffed is a safe baseline test. Hunters don’t really get anything to augment them. With Fusions Nades, both Titans and Warlocks can get two with exotics and it would make the Ashen Wake build even better. And with magnetics I believe it’s the same, getting two on a titan with armamentarium and potential one shot against a super with heart of inmost light. That’s my theory anyway, but I guess we’ll see.
This is just a teaser of what's to come, not an exhaustive list. They gave Flux grenades as an example, but I'd be willing to bet other grenades besides those listed are being changed as well. We'll only find out when it comes out but probably all stickies will one shot
@@lokilucario If you use dodge as a dodge you're doing something wrong.. and if you get kills with grenades you're using them wrong. Don't use healing rifts or walls either right. Hot take if I ever heard one.
@@lokilucario the shrieker, cabal collosus, taken centurion and hobgoblins all use missiles that track. Vandals also have tracking weapons so its a bummer that it can't break their tracking 😕
@@lokilucario It's literally a dodge and it's on a short CD. Using it as a get out of jail free card doesn't mean you're doing something wrong, it means you're using a dodge to... dodge.
I’m curious how demolitionist (may be wrong name) on weapons will change or affect these. Like is it % based or will it be like 10 secs for every kill or what the deal os
If it was % based that would make demolitionist worse on high discipline builds, I think it takes off a few seconds from the cooldown instead. Even then, depending on how it counts player kills, it might not even be good in pvp.
it just needed bonus range and hit potential thats all it needed (hell i'd take d1 shoulder charge over a BLINDING shoulder charge that does nothing to blind others around the fool ya hit).... ugh titans got slamed (especialy titans like me who run top tree almost relegiously on the striker class)
@@Betaster3000 Or even worse, when you actually connect with said person but instead of hitting and killing them you just...push. As in you launch them away without dealing a single drop of damage, happens more often to me in the Super than the melee itself.
Flux grenade basically becoming the plasma grenade will be interesting but all this says to me is neutral game exotics will become even more powerful in pvp. I’m looking at you hunters.
And a very small thing for warlock is Ophideans aspects basically give warlocks their missing meter of melee range and now they recover at the same speed as ever class 😈
Love hunter, was the first thing I played and still my most played class and these nerfs look like a great change, promoting actual build crafting as opposed to just mobility, recov and maybe discipline. Gonna have to learn not to crutch on the get out jail free dodge though
@@aachen-lr2172 I'm honestly super hype for the idea of different abilities having different cooldowns. You lock yourself out of so much design space if you go "okay every ability of the same type must have the same cooldown". Now they can do cooler, more unique stuff.
can’t wait for someone to use an enemy titan shield to charge their super, have it patched within a week, then have telesto deal self damage which gives you instant super and generate ammo for itself.
Really disappointed at the Hunter PVE nerf with regards to Dodging. It certainly feels like Hunters can't really compete with the other classes in high-level end-game content. I feel like we'll be seeing some armor mods to hopefully improve class abilities in different ways, but as it stands now, it's hard for me to get excited about playing my Hunter.
heres the thing, the dodge nerf isnt going to do much to make them worse, much like a dodge buff wouldnt do much to make them better. dodge nerf is going to ultimately not matter outside of solo cheesing stuff with invis. hunters do need a buff in another way and that will probably be in the form of more super damage or a tether buff.
Wasn’t there a solar melee in D1 where warlocks got an overshield for literally only landing a melee hit? If it wasn’t hits, it was absolutely kills. “Flame Shield”
I think Datto might be one of the few guys that actually gives us analysis and doesn't just read us the TWAB. I appreciate that. I also appreciate that Datto's aim in PvP is as bad as mine.
Shoulder charge one-shotting in the crucible is literally the only reason I used top-tree striker, I'm a permanent Thunder Crasher now. And as a Hunter main, I'm happy that there are way less one-shot abilities, and the ones that we do have are more difficult to hit than "Hold W press punch"
I saw 4 other content creators make this video but DATTO made it just a little easier to follow since your showing what is happening on screen thank you for the dumb down explanation.
As long as PvE isn't hurt too badly, and mayhem remains Super City, then I think this is all sensible changes. I'm loving all of the separate PvP and PvE changes lately
For the most part I love the changes. I love that primaries will give more super energy. Now if someone's maining a fusion, Lorentz or a GL all game they just ain't gonna have shit for super energy. Love to see it.
@@pilidod I became a believer when I got Vulpecula with Headstone and it enabled a lot more synergies with crystal shattering, which is also getting better. I use the aspect that increases grenade recharge when you shatter a crystal and it gives you basically infinite glacier grenades or a pretty good amount of duskfields
as if we needed more reason to use diamond lance, lmao we take those tho, enjoying those 2 extra fragment slots, gonna be putting whisper of chains on for sure
@@Boomerangofjustice That sounds fun, I just need an Outlaw/Headstone Vulpecula. I have Killing Wind and Headstone, which works well in trials bc it blocks revives, but my luck with Outlaw/Headstone is not working out lol. It's gonna be hard to break away from my solar titan mold tho, the survivability is just nice (plus, Thermoclastic Blooming with bottom tree is hilarious).
But hey, at least we all got the same treatment thankfully. I'm still feeling kinda bad about shoulder bash not being one shot tho, but we'll see how it works out.
@@arzr_er Nah fam, that's just your opinion, let me have mine. I think it was okay, and I feel a bit bummed that it got nerfed due to a close friend of mine loving shoulder bash. But, I guess people got what they wanted so maybe they will be less complaints
@@arzr_er Damn, you're right about the ADC. I don't get affected by ADC since I rarely melee people but man, it'd be funny to see people meleeing a shoulder basher and blowing up
If you get your super faster in PvP by receiving or dealing damage would a gun like Tommy's matchbook make you receive your super faster? Since you deal damage with it and it burns the user?
The twab stated dealing and receiving damage to the enemy so I dont think so? They've done hotfixes in the past to negate self damage from procing things like the Stag regen and Protective Light so I dont think they'd let Tommy's Matchbook or self damage effects like throwing a grenade at your feet boost your super energy
@@meakle001 please no, i love using tommy and id rather bungie not touching it, ill be like that one meme where the monkey is pushing the persons hand away from the dog that the monkey is holding
Regarding primary weapons, even with these changes, gambit will still be double special weapons as a go to (apart from exotic bows and Vex). And by the sounds of it, abilities in Gambit are gonna be even stronger now since most combat is combatant focused (pve enemies)
Could probably adjust the enemy level in Gambit then. Make it harder to absolutely outlevel Gambit. Likewise, if they reintroduce "prime" as Gambit's version of Trials, they can make it locked to gear power and locked to 1320 or higher. They still need a slew of other changes to make the whole experience better and less snowball-y while still being quickly levelable (currently it still feels far behind that of Crucible and Trials rep leveling)
To preface, I’m a titan main. Nerfing shoulder charge is going to completely kill it’s usage in pvp. It’s hit detection was already so weak that you often died mid shoulder charge from an enemy’s non shoulder charge melee.
Shoulder charge usually ended on your death in year 1 with double primaries. It will end on your death certainly now on the end of a shotgun as it already does. It's not a skill that good players even use it for their intended use, it's just a movement skill. That feels to me like an over correction. Very few stuff one shots now, and though the cool downs are being changed, weapon strength (as we already had the weapon twab) is staying like it is and most of the rest is being tunned down. It might just create a situation where using abilities get you killed, where you can't proc effects that only happen on kill and deterrence abilities are unable to do their intended function.
There are a lot of things in this that I'm worried about or don't like, but I think the crucial point to remember is this: Everything about light subclasses is about to change. _Everything_ about light subclasses is about to change. They're moving to the stasis model over the next few... seasons, right? One a season, starting with void alongside Witch Queen? Something like that, and from what we've seen, they're changing a _lot_ too, not just a straight port over. These first rebalances might suck in some ways with the current system for the months until WQ, but then over the next year everything is guaranteed to change again, and that means we know almost nothing about the actual endpoint of these changes. We're only seeing the tip of the iceberg - There's a lot more to come, and considering Bungie's track record for big balance reworks, well, who knows. They've broken the sandbox in half, and then fixed it better than it ever was before, and then done the whole thing again over and over. Nothing to do but wait and see.
This is my biggest concern. They've been known for the BIG patches, but the issue was always the small incremental changes, and them changing TOO much, leaving things broken for long stretches. Hopefully this is all in flux, and they can adjust as the year goes on. Not just leave it as-is if it doesn't work.
Everything about *void* subclasses is about to change.... Three months after this patch drops... With no comment on the cadence of Arc 3.0 or Solar 3.0 coming out... Which means all light subclasses are left in the lurch for 3 months, with Arc and Solar waiting 6 months if not longer.
Pretty much same opinion. There are a few changes I kinda feeling aren’t necessary, but may make sense later down on the line once we get more info. Here’s hoping!
Something to look out for is Young Ahamkara’s Spine post-update. If it isn’t touched then tripmine-spam hunters might become a big factor in the meta game. I assume tripmines are going to have a fairly long base cooldown if YAS isn’t getting touched
@@andreb4168 Really? I honestly loved all the changes. Plus, I get to have fun blinding enemies as a Titan too! Only thing that I didn't really like was how they changed the Barricade cooldown to 40 seconds. I mean honestly, that extra 10 seconds could take someone's life away lol. At least do something about the less popular barricade rather than changing the one that's already good. I feel like what they could do instead is either keep the buff that you get from the second barricade active as long as you're in a certain radius that's near it, or simply make the second barricade slightly taller.
These sound like pretty excellent changes. Destiny has always been crippled by having PvP and PvE mostly share a sandbox and this feels like the strongest they've ever acted to seperate the two. It's not two seperate sandboxes, but the 50% reductions in PvP feel unheard of in the past.
I think they're just gonna increase the damage/effectiveness of hunter melee abilities in pve and the duration of invisibility itself in pve to compensate, the hunter train then can keep going you just have more time in between while your either invisible or your shuriken are shredding through ads to keep up. That plus the fact that a lot of the hunter's good pve supers (tether, silence and squall, golden gun) are on the mid to high tier on the super regen bit seems like they may actually get a decent amount better in pve. Little things like the fragment increase on Grim Harvest and shatter damage increase (when Hunters are the uncontested kings of shattering) make stasis first, then other abilities come void 3.0 and other subclass 3.0s, come back up in viability
Just an FYI for my fellow game pass players, the legendary edition is on sale right now for $35 (including tax) which is the lowest price ever for all the DLC’s. I just picked it up myself in case the future sale isn’t as generous. And owning forsaken now means you get the forsaken pack on the 7th, which I’m guessing will cost more than $10
Didn't see sun warrior/sunspots mentioned. I wonder if it will still be possible to spawn one and then stay in it untill all abilities are charged? Thrown on phoenix cradle and you could potentially recharge teammates as well.
I would contest that gambler’s dodge for top and middle tree Nightstalker should not be such a long cooldown since the smoke bombs are arguably the worst melee ability when they can’t turn you invisible.
This is absolutely huge. We’ve gotten a great story since beyond light came out and now bungie is starting to listen and separate pvp and pve. I’m super excited to see how things turn out. It’s all coming together to make witch queen better than anything we’ve seen.
So abilities like grenades are gonna have their own base cooldown different to other grenades. This might encourage more diverse ability builds depending on the changes. Also it’s nice for bungie to finally do proper pve and pvp separate updates it took us a while of asking but it’s finally happening in full
I'm very glad to see the mass separation in PvP/PvE balancing. Also really glad to see the Warlock melee timing change. Also also really glad to see Titan's shoulder charge no longer one-shot in PvP because that shit was dumb.
22:57 I think that the ideal scenario for PvP and PvE balancing is that they rhyme, but aren't identical. You should be able to reasonably expect what things do in both modes, even if it's not the exact same effectiveness. The good news is that Bungie seems to be going for that sort of approach.
I'm a pretty casual D2 player, log in a couple times a week to play some crucible for the hell of it, and I cannot stress how much I love this TWAB. Removing one shots like Shatterdive/Stasis crystals and shoulder charge? Fuck yea. Nerfing stasis crystals freezing? Love to see it. Making certain supers recharge faster than others? Absolutely. Big props to Bungie for this patch.
@@sn0wpang my dads a hardcore as well and even he likes the changes. I come from tactical FPS games, where pleasing both the casuals and the hardcores is very rare, so im really proud of bungie for this.
No one will use them, since shoulder charge is a pile of shit even now, while it still can one-shot. And with an over the top nerf of bottom striker it’ll leave only two remotely playable pvp specs for titans which is fucking dumb, cos they are already an almost extinct species.
@@morsperferro3419 PREACH MY FRIEND titans might as well be extinct at this point!!!! and warlock got a fing slap on the wrist!!!!! and hunters got a shot in the nee at best
@@morsperferro3419 over the top nerf my dick hole. Sunspots will just be even more dominant than it already was. The problem isn't the shoulder charge, it's the subclass trees that provide them top hammers has horrible duration, middle only has a good super, Sentinel just bubble boi, and arc is probably just going to lean into crash even harder. Stasis is stasis
I always told people that warlocks always had slower melees with shorter range. They said I was full of shit, but you sir, you have made me a happy man.
I’ve always wanted to see a no light crucible mode. Just a small mode off to the side where there are no abilities or no supers. I think destiny has the best pvp gunplay in the industry and would like to see a game mode that focuses strictly on that
We would need to be able to use our jumps. That's the only thing I'd want. Some maps would literally have parts that wouldn't function if not for our jumps.
Good video! I like the direction of balancing the power to cooldown ratio. Prepared for some stuff to need work at first but in combination with subclass 3.0 coming I think abilities will be in a good spot just over the horizon. Keen to see how it all plays out :)
I think I want to get back into the game casually, but it’s been almost a full year and so much has changed, how would you feel about doing a recap video for not only me but new players and anyone else wanting to get back into it
Got back into it after 2 years of being gone. I missed my raid team. We're like family. It's definitely fun. I recommend playing with friends to get you up to speed faster, it's a lot to take in but it's well worth it. I agree with Datto making a "players coming back" video. Hope to see you in strikes! Cheers
@@TheDuke659 It still can be good for a casual, you just have to play with friends. If your a casual having a group of cool friends is great. My buds always hop on Saturday Sunday.
Personally I think that breaking projectile tracking is a lil much, as a dodge is primarily meant to get out of a situation (yes I’m aware that it grants other benefits). But I’m open to the changes, and I’m stoked for Light 3.0. We’ll just have to wait and see
Bungie: Hey, we made grenades do more damage. Oh...didn't need that, like at all but dope- Bungie: To balance it out it now takes twice as long to get it back. ._.
Since void is the rework Ive got my fingers crossed to see oppressive darkness return. Then when solar and arc are reworked I imagine we will see things like solar plexus/withering/thermal overload and then arc battery/thundercoil/surge detonators respectively.
What he said was exactly what I've been wanting for a long time, the 2 gamemodes NEED to be unlinked more and more. When somting is broken in pvp normally its a good thing in pve but they nerf it in both modes making it useless in pve when it was a good choice before. The issue is the fact that both modes can't be as good as they possibly can be, because one mode (*pvp*) is keeping the other mode (*pve*) down.
While I can understand the baseline reason being "no one shot abilities that are annoying to die to" may not perfectly apply, it doesn't sit right that Titans lose shoulder and Warlocks lose handheld but us Hunters keep Weighted Knife. I get it takes a headshot to kill, but I hope it doesn't become too dominant as the only consistent one-shot ability
Sits perfectly fine with me... Having a 1 hit kill panic melee is in no way the same as a melee that 1. Has a pretty long time to throw. 2. Is a projectile with slow travel speed and drop over range. 3. Requires a headshot to be a 1 shot. They literally seem to be making sticky nades into better versions of it... A 1 shot ability isn't nearly as frustrating to get hit by if you know it at least took some skill to use unlike shoulder charging or using handheld supernova...
@@alexmcettrick7332 because people will literally just sprint around corners see an enemy, go "oh shit!" And push 1 button to kill the enemy... And weapons being disabled doesn't matter much when it's a guaranteed kill now does it? And fun fact, every melee makes you unable to shoot during the animation and for a short while after...
wait so depending on the cooldown of the other solar granades on warlock and as far as we know the cooldown of firebolts, does that make them the best for like healing teammates with well? because since they are reducing the time it takes to get them back, with mods and benevelent dawn, you will be able to get it back really fast for small damage or fast heals. pair that up with lumina and you are just a walking healing maching
As much as i don't like this overall nerf as its something i worked with on all 3 characters (i always ran 100 discipline 100 recovery) i definitely love how drastic this change is for the health of this game however, i believe promoting primary fights is fuckin fantastic and a gl and grenade pleb like me will have to go extra hard to utilise my cooldowns.
This is what the game needed in my opinion. A separation between PvE and PvP. The ability to fine tune things separately allows for more flexibility in what Bungie can actually make. Might actually start playing PvP again if this goes well
Emphasis on gunplay is good. When D2 launched, everyone complained the game was slow and abilities charged too slowly. This may be too much of a pendulum swing back to that. We'll see. All they have to do now is eliminate 6v6, go back to 4s and we'll have gone full-circle. As a Titan, it feels like a rip. Lengthening cool downs is a better approach than nerfing shoulder charge into the ground.
I always thought shoulder charge was used as movement because even when it was a one hit melee it was a high risk high reward due to shotguns. Hopefully with these changes to shoulder charge it can be a fast follow up melee like shiver strike
My only gripe is that this makes ability based exotics, which are already very underused, even weaker. It'll reinforce the dominance of neutral exotics (stompees, aspects, dunemarchers etc), which is pretty lame
You may be right, but it could also boost those exotics. If the new charge rates are long enough, some of those energy generation exotics may actually be good picks. Can't say for sure until the patch hits.
My biggest concern is that with the sheer amount of changes happening in December if there is anything that needs critical work or crucial tuning after a patch of this magnitude, it’s right on the window where they’re on break for the holiday and we could potentially not see any until after January.
one grenade I'm hoping gets buffed is the Hunter Tripmine grenade. It never made sense that it detonated after like 30 seconds even if someone doesn't trigger it. Instead, I think it should last indefinitely until it's triggered by someone passing in front of it OR manually being destroyed by someone who sees it. To compensate this, the grenade won't begin to recharge until the grenade detonates, but it should recharge in around 1.5 minutes, maybe less due to this
Finally, it only took them 7 years to separate pvp and pve for abilities and supers. Now they need to do it with weapons and armor so my exotics don’t get disabled when they find a glitch with it in pvp.
I think it's really interesting that super will be tied to primary damage and being in combat, especially for PVP. Hopefully this will incentivize a little less shotgun camping/aping
I’m very happy with these changes (only slightly salty at the dodge nerf as a Hunter main who’s having fun with burning knives chaining in pve) and I’m willing to wait through the ironing out process. Hell I’ve been here since D1 launch and all the garbage metas haven’t made me quit yet. I’m extremely excited for a more fun based pvp since that’s how I normally play anyways.
I'm EXTREMELY casual; so casual that I didn't understand half the stuff you were talking about. BUT it is still nice to hear they have settled on a balance philosophy and have that target to aim at now when they make changes. I always want more gunplay in games and one-shot stuff is always a bummer to be on the wrong end of. I'm always kinda on the edge of getting back into D2, knowing they have an approach for PvP might just get me to hop in. And since it's staying on GamePass on PC, I don't even need to buy the expansions I've missed.
Seems like I'm the only one, but I'm extremely nervous about the 7 sec cooldown nerf to gambler's dodge regarding invis in PvE. This void update needs to revolutionize void hunters, or else they're be dead in pve.
It seems like its gonna, I'm thinking since invis isnt too op in pvp they might just increase the duration of invis effects to match the dodge cooldown nerf, plus hunters are getting like 3 new midgame suppression abilities along with the other classes to enable them to be much better at shutting down dangerous ads in pve. Kind of like how the current season's solar ability debuff mod works, which makes sense because void hunter is all about invisibility and suppressing enemies
@@Noah-lu4ro I hope so. I remember seeing in the WC trailer that a hunter did a shatterdive and went invis, which made me excited. I just hope they can improve the subclass while not forcing players to use 6th coyote for invis to be reliable (graviton is my new favorite and I don't want them to hurt my baby)
@@milzhere that's true, Graviton is gonna be way more reliable too now tho, remember without being able to rely on ability regen on its own as much Graviton's melee regen boost and increased duration is gonna be way more vital to void hunters than before, and ominoculus will remain just as strong as before given its chaining capabilities
@@Noah-lu4ro I'm just sad bc with 2 Kickstart mods, you could get dodge back before graviton invis ran out, now that's gone😥 Plus, I'm worried omni is gonna get nerfed hard, since the Melee chain spam is infinite
@@milzhere in pvp its not that insane, I feel like they could do what they did to the stag and keep it from being infinite infinite in pvp but leave it alone entirely in pve
as a titan I personally think the shoulder charge changes will be fine because the improvements to the tracking, range, and less time I have to be vulnerable before I can use the charge as well as getting a blind on the arc one will balance it out for me since I can always follow it up with a bullet spray or a melee to finish a kill whereas before it felt lie 1/3 of my shoulder charges just went through enemies or around them because of the bad range, hit registration, and tracking so overall as long as the buffs fix that issue I'm fine with losing the ohk in favor of a more consistent ability
"You will now gain super energy by receiving damage from opponents"
Finally, It's time to shine for me in the Crucible!
Stag go brrrrr
I could practically HEAR the Riskrunner players salivating... if they ever used their super instead of their Riskrunner.
@@livingcerealbowl5585 Oh shit that's true, warlocks can potentially farm super energy by staying inside a rift now.
@@TheLynx30 I doubt it, they prolly have heavy super energy decay like they said the supers will get
“Hey Bungie, can you nerf Shatterdive in PvP?”
“Understood, reworking everything.”
I mean they still did nerf shatterdive
@@nikolaibelinksi8220 And gave it a massive boost for PVE to compensate
@@joshtheguitarplayer7151 which is a good thing? And technically they didn't give it a "massive" boost in PvE, a lot of it was indirectly buffed due to the stasis crystals change anyways
@@nikolaibelinksi8220 yes it is a good thing, sorry that was not clear lol. The stasis crystals detonation change was 60% percent but shatterdive itself buffs shatter damage by 100 percent.
Not sure if shatter/detonation damage are separate things or the same.
@@joshtheguitarplayer7151
Crystals deal 100% extra damage against frozen enemies, but you can't freeze guardians anymore
So to one shot a guardian in the Crucible, you need to have Whisper of Fissures and Touch of Winter on, while the dude has to be in the middle of your grenade, like exactly the middle
They're not frozen anymore so they would actively need to walk into the middle of the grenade to be killed, so that's a change I like
This is honestly one of the absolute biggest changes they’ve made to the game… ever. It’s a mid season update too
More of a pre expansion update imo
I mean, technically it's mid-season but this season is also twice as long.
@@karrotlord 🤣🤣 so true
"It's a mid season update too"
Yeah sure.....you can say that if you just ignore the fact that this is a 6 month long season. 😑
The fact this is a "mid season update" is painful
I really like that they are seperating pvp and pve without ruining pve. Now we just need to get dedicated pvp servers lol. Wondering if that means that those changes send gambit to the graveyard tho.
Gambit isn't going anywhere - Joe Blackburn confirmed there are absolutely no plans to remove Gambit, they'll be putting out some updates for Gambit after WQ launches
Destiny is never getting dedicated servers. Not for the foreseeable future, anyway. Bungie isn't going to waste money on that when they have no intentions of making this a "competitive" game.
They honestly need to give gambit some attention imo I know people don't like it but to me it's a great way to fit the pve style.of playing into a.competive field against other players it's need more modes like the crucible
like a master mode with champions and other tougher enemies and some other higher difficultly settings (locked weapons , elemental shields etc) and maybe a solo mode or a boss only format
@@madmaxim3965 I agree, but respectfully those changes are absolutely shit lmao
I hope gambit don’t go anywhere, I use the reward system for an extra ascendant shard and prisms
glad they properly separated pve and pvp stuff, with some buffs in pve lol. i like it a lot
Now if only they could give PvE the ability to wear multiple exotics.....
@@Sonichero151 Why would they do that
@@Sonichero151 literally ruins the point of exotics
@@Sonichero151 what in the world are you on about
@@Sonichero151 they shouldn't. It would boost build potential sure, but they would have to nerf so many cause the power balance would be insane.
they definitely need to adjust PVP bounties and quests now, since things like grenade kills will be a bitch to clear with those long cooldowns and the having to deal with whether you actually do get a kill or not
DMG confirmed this was on the docket.
@@bradfieldmurray116 oh my fucking god.. actively Uldren sov me if that is the case
it has always been a bitch for certain grenades as well, and impossible for some.
@@michaeltsagaris1 on the docket for the same time as this patch or some random point in the future?
The blind on Arc shoulder charge is actually really neat. Void SC already applies a Suppression, and Solar applies Melting Point and DoT. This makes Arc equal in applying an effect instead of having been forgotten simply as "the first shoulder charge there was"
Don't forget arc SC has area of effect.
No one will ever use shoulder charge again, barely anyone uses it now when it can one hit so it’ll go straight to the grave
@@scalychannel5897 definitely not arc, that shit is strong
Fun fact, you can in fact kill someone with the Well of Radiance sword. If an enemy is close enough to you, the sword will kill them when you slam it into the ground.
I think you have to direct hit it in pvp, I slammed right next to a friend in a private match and it did 175 after the burn
Direct hit required I'm pretty sure, me and my friends run around chaining wells and it only usually kills when the guy is hit
It does not one shot, but it does combo nicely out of a melee as you can instantly cast it after meleeing someone, resulting in a near instant kill.
You can also kill them with the wave of damage that comes out when you plant the sword (minimal damage, it's most useful in pve to push enemies away). You can melee and then immediately cast well to burn all but all the highest of resistances.
Pretty well known fact I'd say.
That image of the hunter mid dodge at 12:47 is always so funny to me. What a meme.
everyones out here playin destiny 2 and the hunters are playing dark souls.
It's like he fell out of a chair 🤣😂
@@torrvest more like he was hit by a truck
“GET DOWN MR PRESIDENT”
The Flux Grenade is now just the return of the Plasma Grenade
7:46 Fist of Hammock. Sleep subclass confirmed for Lightfall.
Bottom Tree Snoozer is my favourite subclass.
I believe that Flux Grenades being buffed is a safe baseline test. Hunters don’t really get anything to augment them. With Fusions Nades, both Titans and Warlocks can get two with exotics and it would make the Ashen Wake build even better. And with magnetics I believe it’s the same, getting two on a titan with armamentarium and potential one shot against a super with heart of inmost light. That’s my theory anyway, but I guess we’ll see.
This is just a teaser of what's to come, not an exhaustive list. They gave Flux grenades as an example, but I'd be willing to bet other grenades besides those listed are being changed as well. We'll only find out when it comes out but probably all stickies will one shot
That’s fair, I forgot that they didn’t mention the other nades it’ll certainly be interesting to see what happens
If ashen wake with roaring flames doesn’t scare you then I got nothing to say here 😂😭
Nah man, Phoenix cradle will be meta. Literally free Titan empowering rifts!
Just trust me on this one guys
This flux grenade change will be a problem until it's reverted, hunter dodge will get nerfed again, more predictions to come
Datto: Deep complex thoughts on massive changes.
Jez: New things to do while holding W key woooo!!!!!
These changes are another reason why armor mods need to be free to swap out
I dont mind the dodge tracking nerf in pvp but it should only be in pvp not pve.
It's never really an issue in pve. If you need that as a get out of jail free card in pve then you're doing something wrong lol
@@lokilucario If you use dodge as a dodge you're doing something wrong.. and if you get kills with grenades you're using them wrong. Don't use healing rifts or walls either right. Hot take if I ever heard one.
@@lokilucario the shrieker, cabal collosus, taken centurion and hobgoblins all use missiles that track. Vandals also have tracking weapons so its a bummer that it can't break their tracking 😕
@@lokilucario
It's literally a dodge and it's on a short CD. Using it as a get out of jail free card doesn't mean you're doing something wrong, it means you're using a dodge to... dodge.
@@pluto3194 if that's your last line of defense in pve? Like you're about to die if you get hit? Yeah you're definitely doing something wrong lol
I’m curious how demolitionist (may be wrong name) on weapons will change or affect these. Like is it % based or will it be like 10 secs for every kill or what the deal os
Should be percentage. As well as well spring.
If it was % based that would make demolitionist worse on high discipline builds, I think it takes off a few seconds from the cooldown instead. Even then, depending on how it counts player kills, it might not even be good in pvp.
It is % based, and it is "worse" on high disc builds.
If shoulder charge was frustrating to use and frustrating to be hit by, sounds like a bigger revamp is the right choice
it just needed bonus range and hit potential thats all it needed (hell i'd take d1 shoulder charge over a BLINDING shoulder charge that does nothing to blind others around the fool ya hit).... ugh titans got slamed (especialy titans like me who run top tree almost relegiously on the striker class)
@@blazesona12 its so fucking annoying when someone thats very slightly higher than you is unable to be hit by shoulder charge
@@Betaster3000 Or even worse, when you actually connect with said person but instead of hitting and killing them you just...push. As in you launch them away without dealing a single drop of damage, happens more often to me in the Super than the melee itself.
@@SympatheticArsenal especially annoying when trying to shutdown supers with shield bash
@@Betaster3000
What do you mean? I got hit by a Shoulder Charge that was 10 feet away from me
VERTICALLY
Flux grenade basically becoming the plasma grenade will be interesting but all this says to me is neutral game exotics will become even more powerful in pvp. I’m looking at you hunters.
And a very small thing for warlock is Ophideans aspects basically give warlocks their missing meter of melee range and now they recover at the same speed as ever class 😈
@@liamcivil5978 no
@@Precipiceofwind yes
@@liamcivil5978 No, Ophedians don't extend melee range
@@parsus7797 the exotic perk says they do atleast
Combination Blow being on a 15-second cooldown makes Marksman Dodge viable with it, and actually makes Strength not a dead stat on melee Hunters.
That is honestly one of the coolest changes. I’m actually looking forward to doing Monte Carlo like things on top arc without needing Monte at all.
Maybe i could finally run my liars handshake better.
Love hunter, was the first thing I played and still my most played class and these nerfs look like a great change, promoting actual build crafting as opposed to just mobility, recov and maybe discipline.
Gonna have to learn not to crutch on the get out jail free dodge though
@@aachen-lr2172 I'm honestly super hype for the idea of different abilities having different cooldowns. You lock yourself out of so much design space if you go "okay every ability of the same type must have the same cooldown".
Now they can do cooler, more unique stuff.
I feel like Telesto is going to have a field day with this...somehow.
'Having telesto equipped restores shatter damage to beyond light launch levels'
can’t wait for someone to use an enemy titan shield to charge their super, have it patched within a week, then have telesto deal self damage which gives you instant super and generate ammo for itself.
Really disappointed at the Hunter PVE nerf with regards to Dodging. It certainly feels like Hunters can't really compete with the other classes in high-level end-game content.
I feel like we'll be seeing some armor mods to hopefully improve class abilities in different ways, but as it stands now, it's hard for me to get excited about playing my Hunter.
Get fucked crutch class. Feels so good watching hunters get hit. Warlocks are taking back the top spot at last
@@TargetSniper365 warlocks were always the best tbh, now they’re like the only option lmao
@@TargetSniper365 no way you're calling hunter crutches in pve
heres the thing, the dodge nerf isnt going to do much to make them worse, much like a dodge buff wouldnt do much to make them better. dodge nerf is going to ultimately not matter outside of solo cheesing stuff with invis. hunters do need a buff in another way and that will probably be in the form of more super damage or a tether buff.
@@AzrealJ to be honest, invis was kind of broken in PvE, allowing for basically infinite uptime. It’s good to have that toned down slightly
I'm just so glad warlocks have a melee in pvp now. Took 7 years, but we got it.
Warlocks have always had broken melee’s.
@@WIZZDUMN charged melees are pretty strong, but warlocks grenades are godlike
Wasn’t there a solar melee in D1 where warlocks got an overshield for literally only landing a melee hit?
If it wasn’t hits, it was absolutely kills.
“Flame Shield”
@@ilikaplayhopscotch It was just hits alone, but the overshield had small damage resistance.
@@ilikaplayhopscotch basically made you 2 hits into 3 hits.
good luck ever winning a melee fight with a sunsinger warlock in destiny 1
I should be a super regen machine with these exotic primary changes
I think Datto might be one of the few guys that actually gives us analysis and doesn't just read us the TWAB. I appreciate that. I also appreciate that Datto's aim in PvP is as bad as mine.
Shoulder charge one-shotting in the crucible is literally the only reason I used top-tree striker, I'm a permanent Thunder Crasher now. And as a Hunter main, I'm happy that there are way less one-shot abilities, and the ones that we do have are more difficult to hit than "Hold W press punch"
With these subclass changes, I might need Datto to cradle me a little harder lol
I saw 4 other content creators make this video but DATTO made it just a little easier to follow since your showing what is happening on screen thank you for the dumb down explanation.
As long as PvE isn't hurt too badly, and mayhem remains Super City, then I think this is all sensible changes. I'm loving all of the separate PvP and PvE changes lately
For the most part I love the changes. I love that primaries will give more super energy. Now if someone's maining a fusion, Lorentz or a GL all game they just ain't gonna have shit for super energy. Love to see it.
As one of the twelve Behemoth Mains im positively thrilled, overall I think it was a series of hard decisions that I mostly agree with.
I might be the 13th behemoth main with these changes
My incredible icefall/sword build will finally get the love it deserves
@@pilidod I became a believer when I got Vulpecula with Headstone and it enabled a lot more synergies with crystal shattering, which is also getting better. I use the aspect that increases grenade recharge when you shatter a crystal and it gives you basically infinite glacier grenades or a pretty good amount of duskfields
as if we needed more reason to use diamond lance, lmao
we take those tho, enjoying those 2 extra fragment slots, gonna be putting whisper of chains on for sure
@@Boomerangofjustice That sounds fun, I just need an Outlaw/Headstone Vulpecula. I have Killing Wind and Headstone, which works well in trials bc it blocks revives, but my luck with Outlaw/Headstone is not working out lol. It's gonna be hard to break away from my solar titan mold tho, the survivability is just nice (plus, Thermoclastic Blooming with bottom tree is hilarious).
I’m just sad that the hunter dodge nerf applies to PvE :(
But hey, at least we all got the same treatment thankfully. I'm still feeling kinda bad about shoulder bash not being one shot tho, but we'll see how it works out.
@@Mariocombat6667
Shoulder Charge was BS, it was "frustrating to land" and frustrating to get hit by, I'm glad it's fucking gone
@@arzr_er Nah fam, that's just your opinion, let me have mine. I think it was okay, and I feel a bit bummed that it got nerfed due to a close friend of mine loving shoulder bash. But, I guess people got what they wanted so maybe they will be less complaints
@@Mariocombat6667
Hell yeah, and you can still one shot with Dunemarchers anyway
Or ACD/0
Fuck ACD/0
@@arzr_er Damn, you're right about the ADC. I don't get affected by ADC since I rarely melee people but man, it'd be funny to see people meleeing a shoulder basher and blowing up
If you get your super faster in PvP by receiving or dealing damage would a gun like Tommy's matchbook make you receive your super faster? Since you deal damage with it and it burns the user?
The twab stated dealing and receiving damage to the enemy so I dont think so? They've done hotfixes in the past to negate self damage from procing things like the Stag regen and Protective Light so I dont think they'd let Tommy's Matchbook or self damage effects like throwing a grenade at your feet boost your super energy
Yea true. Lets see if tommys becomes broken!
@@meakle001 please no, i love using tommy and id rather bungie not touching it, ill be like that one meme where the monkey is pushing the persons hand away from the dog that the monkey is holding
@Unbiddensubset0 Tommys is fun to use. I'm sure it wont be like telesto
If anything I see Tolesto doing something like that 🤣
One thing Bungie can do that will really help in communicating changes is a tab in a menu in the game that contains the latest patch notes.
Regarding primary weapons, even with these changes, gambit will still be double special weapons as a go to (apart from exotic bows and Vex). And by the sounds of it, abilities in Gambit are gonna be even stronger now since most combat is combatant focused (pve enemies)
who cares about gambit lol
Could probably adjust the enemy level in Gambit then. Make it harder to absolutely outlevel Gambit. Likewise, if they reintroduce "prime" as Gambit's version of Trials, they can make it locked to gear power and locked to 1320 or higher.
They still need a slew of other changes to make the whole experience better and less snowball-y while still being quickly levelable (currently it still feels far behind that of Crucible and Trials rep leveling)
@@clockproof people who play Gambit?
@@nicetry69420 who?
@@KaeptnBolle me, its me. Me and my clan love and play Gambit regularly. I'm close to my third infamy reset.
To preface, I’m a titan main. Nerfing shoulder charge is going to completely kill it’s usage in pvp. It’s hit detection was already so weak that you often died mid shoulder charge from an enemy’s non shoulder charge melee.
Shoulder charge usually ended on your death in year 1 with double primaries. It will end on your death certainly now on the end of a shotgun as it already does.
It's not a skill that good players even use it for their intended use, it's just a movement skill. That feels to me like an over correction. Very few stuff one shots now, and though the cool downs are being changed, weapon strength (as we already had the weapon twab) is staying like it is and most of the rest is being tunned down.
It might just create a situation where using abilities get you killed, where you can't proc effects that only happen on kill and deterrence abilities are unable to do their intended function.
There are a lot of things in this that I'm worried about or don't like, but I think the crucial point to remember is this:
Everything about light subclasses is about to change. _Everything_ about light subclasses is about to change. They're moving to the stasis model over the next few... seasons, right? One a season, starting with void alongside Witch Queen? Something like that, and from what we've seen, they're changing a _lot_ too, not just a straight port over. These first rebalances might suck in some ways with the current system for the months until WQ, but then over the next year everything is guaranteed to change again, and that means we know almost nothing about the actual endpoint of these changes.
We're only seeing the tip of the iceberg - There's a lot more to come, and considering Bungie's track record for big balance reworks, well, who knows. They've broken the sandbox in half, and then fixed it better than it ever was before, and then done the whole thing again over and over. Nothing to do but wait and see.
I agree!
Hope for the best, prepare for the worst.
This is my biggest concern. They've been known for the BIG patches, but the issue was always the small incremental changes, and them changing TOO much, leaving things broken for long stretches. Hopefully this is all in flux, and they can adjust as the year goes on. Not just leave it as-is if it doesn't work.
Everything about *void* subclasses is about to change.... Three months after this patch drops... With no comment on the cadence of Arc 3.0 or Solar 3.0 coming out... Which means all light subclasses are left in the lurch for 3 months, with Arc and Solar waiting 6 months if not longer.
Pretty much same opinion. There are a few changes I kinda feeling aren’t necessary, but may make sense later down on the line once we get more info. Here’s hoping!
Something to look out for is Young Ahamkara’s Spine post-update. If it isn’t touched then tripmine-spam hunters might become a big factor in the meta game. I assume tripmines are going to have a fairly long base cooldown if YAS isn’t getting touched
probably the reason Xur has it right now
regardless is tripmines get touched YAS and other abilities on hit contribute to ability energy.
I was waiting for this video to find out the changes and I’m scared to see if they’re good or bad. Hold me Datto.
Well, based on their track-record…..
Same. My butt is clenched so tight I think I created a singularity.
Bad
Atleast for titans and warlocks
@@andreb4168 Really? I honestly loved all the changes. Plus, I get to have fun blinding enemies as a Titan too!
Only thing that I didn't really like was how they changed the Barricade cooldown to 40 seconds. I mean honestly, that extra 10 seconds could take someone's life away lol. At least do something about the less popular barricade rather than changing the one that's already good. I feel like what they could do instead is either keep the buff that you get from the second barricade active as long as you're in a certain radius that's near it, or simply make the second barricade slightly taller.
These sound like pretty excellent changes. Destiny has always been crippled by having PvP and PvE mostly share a sandbox and this feels like the strongest they've ever acted to seperate the two. It's not two seperate sandboxes, but the 50% reductions in PvP feel unheard of in the past.
Thresh, Demolitionist, and Wellspring, use those three perks on your weapons depending on your build and these perks will work very well for you
The dodge nerf in PVP is fine for me, but it's going to be horrible in PVE now
@@Shiro-wl9gr if that alone killed your wq hype then you didn’t have much hype to begin with lmao
@@Shiro-wl9gr hunters need some big help in pve, because jesus christ.
@@joaorugeri9885 use ur gun. Hobbit
@@otatux7346 he's right, the only utility we have in pve is the invis
I think they're just gonna increase the damage/effectiveness of hunter melee abilities in pve and the duration of invisibility itself in pve to compensate, the hunter train then can keep going you just have more time in between while your either invisible or your shuriken are shredding through ads to keep up. That plus the fact that a lot of the hunter's good pve supers (tether, silence and squall, golden gun) are on the mid to high tier on the super regen bit seems like they may actually get a decent amount better in pve. Little things like the fragment increase on Grim Harvest and shatter damage increase (when Hunters are the uncontested kings of shattering) make stasis first, then other abilities come void 3.0 and other subclass 3.0s, come back up in viability
Just an FYI for my fellow game pass players, the legendary edition is on sale right now for $35 (including tax) which is the lowest price ever for all the DLC’s. I just picked it up myself in case the future sale isn’t as generous.
And owning forsaken now means you get the forsaken pack on the 7th, which I’m guessing will cost more than $10
Didn't see sun warrior/sunspots mentioned. I wonder if it will still be possible to spawn one and then stay in it untill all abilities are charged? Thrown on phoenix cradle and you could potentially recharge teammates as well.
(And the damage buff while inside of it, I have been preaching about this combo for a long time!
It’s better than an empowering rift)
Solar hammers all the way. I been using it since day 1 and I’ve never left it
They said they couldn’t mention all the changes or it will be too long for us
@@sumfyrmin4722 its not, both are 20
@@Precipiceofwind I think he means it’s better because it also recharges your abilities unlike empowering rift
I would contest that gambler’s dodge for top and middle tree Nightstalker should not be such a long cooldown since the smoke bombs are arguably the worst melee ability when they can’t turn you invisible.
I wonder how perks like demolitionist and adrenaline junkie will be affected
Demo will probably grant less energy in PvP. Adrenaline Junkie doesn't grant energy and is already being reworked, so...?
This is absolutely huge. We’ve gotten a great story since beyond light came out and now bungie is starting to listen and separate pvp and pve. I’m super excited to see how things turn out. It’s all coming together to make witch queen better than anything we’ve seen.
I'm getting Destiny 2 Vanilla vibes from the changes
So abilities like grenades are gonna have their own base cooldown different to other grenades. This might encourage more diverse ability builds depending on the changes. Also it’s nice for bungie to finally do proper pve and pvp separate updates it took us a while of asking but it’s finally happening in full
As a fellow titan main, I can’t wait to hear your thoughts!
I'm very glad to see the mass separation in PvP/PvE balancing. Also really glad to see the Warlock melee timing change. Also also really glad to see Titan's shoulder charge no longer one-shot in PvP because that shit was dumb.
22:57 I think that the ideal scenario for PvP and PvE balancing is that they rhyme, but aren't identical. You should be able to reasonably expect what things do in both modes, even if it's not the exact same effectiveness. The good news is that Bungie seems to be going for that sort of approach.
i would love to hear the reasoning behind Hammers being a slower cooldown than Dawnblade
I'm a pretty casual D2 player, log in a couple times a week to play some crucible for the hell of it, and I cannot stress how much I love this TWAB. Removing one shots like Shatterdive/Stasis crystals and shoulder charge? Fuck yea. Nerfing stasis crystals freezing? Love to see it. Making certain supers recharge faster than others? Absolutely. Big props to Bungie for this patch.
i am quite hardcore and i couldnt agree more brother
@@sn0wpang my dads a hardcore as well and even he likes the changes. I come from tactical FPS games, where pleasing both the casuals and the hardcores is very rare, so im really proud of bungie for this.
@@byrdman4644 just the implementation of separate sandboxes is enough to make me happy
Flux grenades are basically plasma grenades from halo now, I really like those so I think I will like these now
There's still hope Titans.
Peregrine Greaves will still one shot
No one will use them, since shoulder charge is a pile of shit even now, while it still can one-shot. And with an over the top nerf of bottom striker it’ll leave only two remotely playable pvp specs for titans which is fucking dumb, cos they are already an almost extinct species.
@@morsperferro3419 PREACH MY FRIEND titans might as well be extinct at this point!!!! and warlock got a fing slap on the wrist!!!!! and hunters got a shot in the nee at best
@@morsperferro3419 over the top nerf my dick hole. Sunspots will just be even more dominant than it already was. The problem isn't the shoulder charge, it's the subclass trees that provide them top hammers has horrible duration, middle only has a good super, Sentinel just bubble boi, and arc is probably just going to lean into crash even harder. Stasis is stasis
I always told people that warlocks always had slower melees with shorter range. They said I was full of shit, but you sir, you have made me a happy man.
I’ve always wanted to see a no light crucible mode. Just a small mode off to the side where there are no abilities or no supers. I think destiny has the best pvp gunplay in the industry and would like to see a game mode that focuses strictly on that
We would need to be able to use our jumps. That's the only thing I'd want. Some maps would literally have parts that wouldn't function if not for our jumps.
"Best pvp gunplay in the industry" dude I like the game too but go play titan fall or halo
Good video! I like the direction of balancing the power to cooldown ratio. Prepared for some stuff to need work at first but in combination with subclass 3.0 coming I think abilities will be in a good spot just over the horizon. Keen to see how it all plays out :)
I think I want to get back into the game casually, but it’s been almost a full year and so much has changed, how would you feel about doing a recap video for not only me but new players and anyone else wanting to get back into it
Got back into it after 2 years of being gone. I missed my raid team. We're like family. It's definitely fun. I recommend playing with friends to get you up to speed faster, it's a lot to take in but it's well worth it. I agree with Datto making a "players coming back" video. Hope to see you in strikes! Cheers
Not much has changed honestly. Just hop on and see how ya like it.
Unfortunately it can’t be enjoyed casually
@@TheDuke659 wtf are you on? You can 100% jump on and play casually.
@@TheDuke659 It still can be good for a casual, you just have to play with friends. If your a casual having a group of cool friends is great. My buds always hop on Saturday Sunday.
Personally I think that breaking projectile tracking is a lil much, as a dodge is primarily meant to get out of a situation (yes I’m aware that it grants other benefits). But I’m open to the changes, and I’m stoked for Light 3.0. We’ll just have to wait and see
Bungie needs to show the patch notes after the update installs on the game. I know I can search on the website but still.
Bungie: Hey, we made grenades do more damage.
Oh...didn't need that, like at all but dope-
Bungie: To balance it out it now takes twice as long to get it back.
._.
Since void is the rework Ive got my fingers crossed to see oppressive darkness return. Then when solar and arc are reworked I imagine we will see things like solar plexus/withering/thermal overload and then arc battery/thundercoil/surge detonators respectively.
Savathun said what are we going todo with our weapons…. I guess she knew what would happened to our abilities. 🤦🏾♂️
Is it weird that I have been waiting to hear datto's thoughts on this? now that its here, im excited! :) lol
What he said was exactly what I've been wanting for a long time, the 2 gamemodes NEED to be unlinked more and more. When somting is broken in pvp normally its a good thing in pve but they nerf it in both modes making it useless in pve when it was a good choice before. The issue is the fact that both modes can't be as good as they possibly can be, because one mode (*pvp*) is keeping the other mode (*pve*) down.
While I can understand the baseline reason being "no one shot abilities that are annoying to die to" may not perfectly apply, it doesn't sit right that Titans lose shoulder and Warlocks lose handheld but us Hunters keep Weighted Knife. I get it takes a headshot to kill, but I hope it doesn't become too dominant as the only consistent one-shot ability
Titans still have the throwing hammer, which is easier to hit headshots with than weighted knife due to weighted knife’s windup
@@sahinapalak1044 the fact that, as a 7 year titan main, I didn't know hammers could 1 shot, shows how useless they are
Sits perfectly fine with me... Having a 1 hit kill panic melee is in no way the same as a melee that
1. Has a pretty long time to throw.
2. Is a projectile with slow travel speed and drop over range.
3. Requires a headshot to be a 1 shot.
They literally seem to be making sticky nades into better versions of it... A 1 shot ability isn't nearly as frustrating to get hit by if you know it at least took some skill to use unlike shoulder charging or using handheld supernova...
@@Kriss_941 how is a melee that disables weapons with a ~2 second sprint windup a panic melee
@@alexmcettrick7332 because people will literally just sprint around corners see an enemy, go "oh shit!" And push 1 button to kill the enemy... And weapons being disabled doesn't matter much when it's a guaranteed kill now does it? And fun fact, every melee makes you unable to shoot during the animation and for a short while after...
Interesting changes! I guess we’ll see how it goes
I’ve always played Hunter with tether cause I always believed supers in competitive was the worst game experience ever.
wait so depending on the cooldown of the other solar granades on warlock and as far as we know the cooldown of firebolts, does that make them the best for like healing teammates with well? because since they are reducing the time it takes to get them back, with mods and benevelent dawn, you will be able to get it back really fast for small damage or fast heals. pair that up with lumina and you are just a walking healing maching
As much as i don't like this overall nerf as its something i worked with on all 3 characters (i always ran 100 discipline 100 recovery) i definitely love how drastic this change is for the health of this game however, i believe promoting primary fights is fuckin fantastic and a gl and grenade pleb like me will have to go extra hard to utilise my cooldowns.
Grenades like the firebolts are even reduced in their cooldown. You may like it.
Chris Proctor did say in the firing range podcast that they were going to be steering away from particle deconstruction type mods fyi
Does the hunter dodge nerf affect PVE as well?
yes :( :( :( :(
This is what the game needed in my opinion. A separation between PvE and PvP. The ability to fine tune things separately allows for more flexibility in what Bungie can actually make. Might actually start playing PvP again if this goes well
PVE BEHEMOTH TITANS RISE UP! OUR TIME HAS COME!!!
I applaud and welcome any and all changes made in an effort to make a more fair playing field! :D
Emphasis on gunplay is good. When D2 launched, everyone complained the game was slow and abilities charged too slowly. This may be too much of a pendulum swing back to that. We'll see. All they have to do now is eliminate 6v6, go back to 4s and we'll have gone full-circle. As a Titan, it feels like a rip. Lengthening cool downs is a better approach than nerfing shoulder charge into the ground.
I always thought shoulder charge was used as movement because even when it was a one hit melee it was a high risk high reward due to shotguns. Hopefully with these changes to shoulder charge it can be a fast follow up melee like shiver strike
My only gripe is that this makes ability based exotics, which are already very underused, even weaker. It'll reinforce the dominance of neutral exotics (stompees, aspects, dunemarchers etc), which is pretty lame
You may be right, but it could also boost those exotics. If the new charge rates are long enough, some of those energy generation exotics may actually be good picks. Can't say for sure until the patch hits.
Shoutout to Datto for sounding like he was saying Fist of Hammick at 7:47
Man I wish they would just remove the melee part of gamblers dodge I’d rather have the dodge movement
My biggest concern is that with the sheer amount of changes happening in December if there is anything that needs critical work or crucial tuning after a patch of this magnitude, it’s right on the window where they’re on break for the holiday and we could potentially not see any until after January.
Ah, the DE style of update release.
I am so glad this is done but...
Can we get F's in the chat for Shoulder Charge
peregrine greaves meta?
That was so fun, they look awesome as well when they activated
im missing the one shot shoulder charge already..... also they r dumb with these titan changes imo....
Good riddance to that one-shot bullshit imo. Make it more user friendly without the 'one-button auto win' potential.
It feels like they went back on something they did during D2 Development from D1, and it feels Absolutely amazing to have unique super timers again.
Most of these changes are good but Flux nades being a one-shot when they’re talking about reducing them is a bit weird
i mean even with a max discipline build you’ll only get 2 or 3 a game, im just glad hunters got big nerfs all around
one grenade I'm hoping gets buffed is the Hunter Tripmine grenade. It never made sense that it detonated after like 30 seconds even if someone doesn't trigger it. Instead, I think it should last indefinitely until it's triggered by someone passing in front of it OR manually being destroyed by someone who sees it. To compensate this, the grenade won't begin to recharge until the grenade detonates, but it should recharge in around 1.5 minutes, maybe less due to this
ngl, i kinda got disinterested once they started talking about PvP, but the recharge tweaks are very cool. Glad to see bungie is putting in the work
Sees all warlock changes.
Nice. Still going to uses stasis though
I personally don’t recall being killed by shoulder charge this entire season
Nor handheld
Nor Shatterdi- oh wait.
Jokes aside though, I've heard literally no-one complain about shouldercharge since, well, forever. WHY BUNGIE WHY, WHY FIX SOMETHING THAT'S NOT BROKEN.
I recall being one-shot by shoulder charge pretty much every match. So, I guess you just got lucky?
Removing the dodge feature from the dodge action is crazy
Finally, it only took them 7 years to separate pvp and pve for abilities and supers. Now they need to do it with weapons and armor so my exotics don’t get disabled when they find a glitch with it in pvp.
You know that's happened already right? Telsto recently was only disabled in pvp
They’ve been doing this since Forsaken.
I think it's really interesting that super will be tied to primary damage and being in combat, especially for PVP. Hopefully this will incentivize a little less shotgun camping/aping
I’m very happy with these changes (only slightly salty at the dodge nerf as a Hunter main who’s having fun with burning knives chaining in pve) and I’m willing to wait through the ironing out process. Hell I’ve been here since D1 launch and all the garbage metas haven’t made me quit yet. I’m extremely excited for a more fun based pvp since that’s how I normally play anyways.
I'm EXTREMELY casual; so casual that I didn't understand half the stuff you were talking about. BUT it is still nice to hear they have settled on a balance philosophy and have that target to aim at now when they make changes. I always want more gunplay in games and one-shot stuff is always a bummer to be on the wrong end of. I'm always kinda on the edge of getting back into D2, knowing they have an approach for PvP might just get me to hop in. And since it's staying on GamePass on PC, I don't even need to buy the expansions I've missed.
Me, a PVE only player: yeah I will ignore this.
They actually did change some things for PvE, biggest one is longer dodge cooldown
Hard to ignore a grenade that hits like Zeus on a three minute cooldown.
Shoulder charge not being a one shot is the greatest thing I’ve ever heard
Seems like I'm the only one, but I'm extremely nervous about the 7 sec cooldown nerf to gambler's dodge regarding invis in PvE. This void update needs to revolutionize void hunters, or else they're be dead in pve.
It seems like its gonna, I'm thinking since invis isnt too op in pvp they might just increase the duration of invis effects to match the dodge cooldown nerf, plus hunters are getting like 3 new midgame suppression abilities along with the other classes to enable them to be much better at shutting down dangerous ads in pve. Kind of like how the current season's solar ability debuff mod works, which makes sense because void hunter is all about invisibility and suppressing enemies
@@Noah-lu4ro I hope so. I remember seeing in the WC trailer that a hunter did a shatterdive and went invis, which made me excited. I just hope they can improve the subclass while not forcing players to use 6th coyote for invis to be reliable (graviton is my new favorite and I don't want them to hurt my baby)
@@milzhere that's true, Graviton is gonna be way more reliable too now tho, remember without being able to rely on ability regen on its own as much Graviton's melee regen boost and increased duration is gonna be way more vital to void hunters than before, and ominoculus will remain just as strong as before given its chaining capabilities
@@Noah-lu4ro I'm just sad bc with 2 Kickstart mods, you could get dodge back before graviton invis ran out, now that's gone😥
Plus, I'm worried omni is gonna get nerfed hard, since the Melee chain spam is infinite
@@milzhere in pvp its not that insane, I feel like they could do what they did to the stag and keep it from being infinite infinite in pvp but leave it alone entirely in pve
as a titan I personally think the shoulder charge changes will be fine because the improvements to the tracking, range, and less time I have to be vulnerable before I can use the charge as well as getting a blind on the arc one will balance it out for me since I can always follow it up with a bullet spray or a melee to finish a kill whereas before it felt lie 1/3 of my shoulder charges just went through enemies or around them because of the bad range, hit registration, and tracking so overall as long as the buffs fix that issue I'm fine with losing the ohk in favor of a more consistent ability
If they reduced the charging time from 1,5 seconds to 1 second instead of 1,25 then I'd be perfectly fine with this change.