EEVblog
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 4 ต.ค. 2024
- What's inside the new FLIR TG165 Visual IR Thermometer / Thermal Camera using the new Lepton sensor?
How does it compare to the FLIR ONE & FLIR E4?
Does it have a calibration shutter?
Does it have any extra capability built in ready to be hacked?
How easy is it to open? (SPOILER - it's a BASTARD!)
Datasheets:
Lepton Module: www.flir.com/up...
www.st.com/web/...
Forum:
www.eevblog.com...
Teardown Photos: COMING SOON
EEVblog Main Web Site: www.eevblog.com
The 2nd EEVblog Channel: / eevblog2
EEVblog Amazon Store (Dave gets a cut):
astore.amazon.c...
Donations:
www.eevblog.com...
Projects:
www.eevblog.com...
Electronics Info Wiki:
www.eevblog.com... - วิทยาศาสตร์และเทคโนโลยี
Hey mate, I have one of these. You can quite easily get the screen (more just a plastic lens) off by using a rubber suction cup, with a slight amount of pressure, eventually it breaks the adhesive and pulls off (little bit of heat wouldn't go astray). Removing the plastic screen reveals the 4 screws you couldn't access in the video, this would allow the whole thing to split in two without breaking it.
Thats what I was cringing about throughout the whole vid lol. I've pulled apart many-a chinese style device constructed exactly this way. even his knife could have removed the screen protector quite easily and you would have hardly been able to tell it was opened
Can you detect heat form out side like cannabis with these
There is a Flir engineer sitting behind his desk laughing at you right now.
This page of yours is right up my alley, basically, I was always ripping apart things as a kid and well these days I only open things if needed. Watching what's inside is half the fun so thanks for a awesome channel.
Why the fuck did they build it like that? When the battery goes dead, you're done and you'll need a new one... fuck that! :I
Mtaalas Yep, it's pure evil.
desing, needs a slick and spotless surface for the eye!
does sell better to the manager :)
madinatore
to be fair. it survives a drop from 2 meters. So,marketing/management where not the only one having fun with the housing design.
designed obsolescence. put a crappy battery in it and in a few years, it will conk out, and voila, its a brick. time to go buy a new one for 500 bucks
i think the screws are under the lcd display, they glue that on after, then you are finished if you try to open it
By the way dave, the processor could be working on a multiple of that 8 mhz with an internal PLL. It might be working at the max 72mhz (8*9).
it was extremely frustrating watching dave trying to take it apart. one of the very first things that came to my mind is screws under that plastic screen cover. you can pretty easily remove that screen cover and the screws would be accessible. i'm amazed that he didn't figure that out.
OtakuSanel I did think if that, but the screen didn't budge when I tried to get it off. Yes, with hindsight I should have tried harder.
i can vouche this is true
Never mind - watching, I figured at first 'now we know where to drill 4 holes, but noo, pull the front off .. We've all been there - now we know!
I found it rather amusing that at 17:00 Dave was still concerned that he might break the SD slot and USB connector. Worth the watch right there. :)
25:15 yeah so some people keep coming in the comments here to talk about that Dave should not tear down older gear because there is no use. but I often comment that modern devices, like this visual thermometer, can be broken down to input (sensor), processing (single ARM chip), output (LCD screen) and power. 99% of all modern devices follow this layout and although it is very interesting to look at teardowns and reviews of modern gear, it is not very interesting from an electronics point of view (this is no critique to the video maker). Single-chip solutions are becoming really common. Also, serviceability (aka cracking open the case) often takes half the time of the teardown itself due to progressively more aggressive design. So I'd love to see teardowns of older gear just as much as I like teardowns and reviews of newer electronics.
Reviving this thread. One of our guys dropped ours and it wouldn't work and you could hear something rattling around inside. Saw this video and knew also that the screws were under the plastic screen that fits over the LCD. Used a thin tool to go around the perimeter of the plastic screen then used a heat gun to warm everything up. I pried up the plastic screen and found it was held on with rubber cement. Once this was up, you could clearly see the (4) small screws that held the unit together. Remove these and the unit comes apart.
Hope this helps somebody.
This got more and more funny as it went on ! lolololol !
I'm thinking that coil on the sensor could be a shutter solenoid.
Ian Clarke I was certainly NOT amused!
Well it gave me a good laugh, I thank you for that ;-)
I know that feeling of frustration well though, especially when you realise an item is built to be non-serviceable which effectively means that when the battery dies, you are expected to throw it away.
EEVblog 19:30. That was clearly a shutter.
EEVblog
As i watched it, i kept thinking: hmm...will he gonna stop or is he gonne go until it will be fully opened....
Thank you Dave, for going through it until you reached the bottom! :) :)
@eevblog
The coil at 29:47 is for the calibration shutter.
The shutter actuates at 19:28 to 19:31.
The STM32F103 contains a PLL for stepping up those 8MHz from the crystal... It will most likely not operate at such a low frequency.
I'm glad you explained this, I can see quite a few people be confused over this product. I can also see people buying this not to their homework and expecting something like a thermal camera with radiometric images when in fact it's just an enhanced spot IR temperature gun.
I would love a way to get the video out of this as VGA, DVI, or HDMI so I can capture it for youtube streams so people can see the thermal troubleshooting methods. I can't find any thermal cameras of quality that can output to an external monitor.
Thermal expert seems to make quality imagers, and runs on windows.
I repair small devices for a living and this teardown was painful. I couldn't even watch the whole thing. I just kept screaming at my monitor, "THE SCREWS ARE BEHIND THE PLASTIC!!!!!!!!!!!!" The LCD is covered by a thin piece of plastic. Peel it back an voila. Screws. This device is definitely serviceable. I love this channel but cmon man you can do a better dis assembly than that. Oh and get yourself an ISESAMO tool. It will make your life alot easier.
Wow, difficult as it is to disassemble, the audio track was extremely entertaining...thumbs up!
19:30 you can see the shutter operate when the screen freezes.
Good eye there!!!
That would indeed be the undeniable proof!
The shutter is actually SEEN closing in the video!
OMG lol
Hi Dave.
The shutter is not for calibration, it is for a non uniformity correction of the fixed pattern noise of the bolometer, because the individual detector elements do have individual characteristics and drifts, which would result in a detector typical pattern over time. So the shutter is used to compensate for this to get a clean homogene picture, it reduces noise.
Greetings from Austria
Reinhold
Thank you for this video!
I got that camera with a dead battery. You helped me got it open without damage.
You really just need to pry this screen "glass" off and you get 4 screws underneath.
Edit:
I should at least read the comments and for sure watch that other video. But I wanted to just open it fast.
Reminds me of this damned motor I used to work on back at my old job. It was an elevator/flap drive for a refueling tanker jet's boom. They aimed the boom with those flaps, and those motors moved the flaps. Thy wanted to do an all electric design, to further reduce the delay in actuation for hydraulic systems, considering you have to move valves and fluids and such. The motors were bonded together with Ecobond epoxy, which is good for about 2000 PSI shear.
To salvage a stator or a rotor... We MACHINED THE HOUSING off the motor, down to the stator. I eventually came up with a method of screwing a threaded mount to the endcap,and then we threaded a long threaded bar with a plate on the end, and a weight that could freely move. You STILL and to machine the steel motor housing off the stator to salvage a stator, but at least with my tool, we could salvage the rotors (say, if a stator failed Hi-pot post bonding) by popping the end caps off with an inertial "snap" that exceeded the 2000 PSI strength of the Ecobond epoxy. It didn't really save too much, but it did save us some destruction, particularly when there was bearing damage. We only had to replace the inner and exterior end caps, plus bearings, and everything else was saved.
I hate non serviceable designs... especially when you're called on to service them... /)_-
Great video. Thank you for tearing up your' FLIR so I could see how it comes apart.
I use the hairdryer trick to take labels off. Just 45 seconds and it keeps the glue good. They always go back on and stay on too. I was going to mention this in the video that referenced the stickers that auction houses use. You should be able to remove those using that trick.
I made that comment before I saw the devastation. lol
wow... for such a simple thing and for not being a visual thermometer like we are use too ... 600€ for that thing is quite expensive
Justagermannerd It's US$499. But yes, expensive.
EEVblog Expensive indeed! I bought my first car for $500 =) Busted it up the same way you busted this thing up too haha
That I can tell from FLIR's web site, MSX isn't about being able to measure an arbitrary spot on the screen, it's mixing cues from a visible light camera with the thermal camera image to better understand & locate what you're looking at.
So you're missing a camera for MSX.
Why not make an extremely small thermal imaging camera with it, just like mike did?
tHaH4x0r a) I have no real desire too. b) Mike already had other projects using various parts of that that made that relatively easy. I'd need the same, or have to work from scratch.
EEVblog Haha fair enough, i bet you are a busy man!
You can see what looks like a shutter close at 19:32
22:24 it's a standard xtal, nothing new here. Also, i'm 100% sure that the LCD glass is glued down like the front trim, you just lift it off, and access to the screws is visible. Also, that front-assembly on the Lepton is a shutter!
Is the rubber molded over the screen glass? I've seen a few devices like this where you have to pull the screens glass cover off to get to the screws.
The most vicious teardown I've ever came across on TH-cam 😀😀😀😀
You could simply measure where the screw heads are located on the back cover. Those measurements could be used to cut access holes for servicing. Some simple marine silicon can be used to fill the holes for a semi-permanent plug.
The small coil is for the shutter
I think a medium wire thickness wire brush wheel on a bench grinder would work wonders on getting that rubber off to access those screws or a dremel with a cut-off wheel.
the screws must be behind the screen assembly, they form the over mold at the same time as the plastic usually in the same mold
Oh well Dave, at least you've got one that you can change the battery in :)
Hey Dave, I can definitely relate to your anger for this design. But you can actually offer more help: Find the exact locations of the screw shafts in the LCD cover and publish it. When somebody wants to take it apart next time, they could punch little holes in the right places and unscrew it nicely without much damage. Then later seal them with silicone to keep the unit tight.
I'm currently trying to get into a Kaiweets KTI-W01 thermal camera, and your struggles in getting into your Flir TG165 is about exactly the same as I'm going through right now with mine. ;s Bought it brand new from Aliexpress. It arrived today. And there's a big speck of dust or something, on the screen. Can't be wiped off, because it's on the inside of the screen. Driving me nuts!
just imagine a FLIR engineer watching this xD He would probably dying from laughing...
You should be able to replace the window with a ZnSe one off Ebay, assuming it's just for keeping the dirt out.
If it's a visible light removal filter, then Oops indeed.
val3tra Still seems to work a treat, at least indoors...
the module has an internal shutter, ive seen a teardown on another channel :)
What happened to "Don't turn it on, take it apart!"? Teardown doesn't start until 5:00. Just poking fun at you Dave, great work as always.
Awwwww poor Flir but it was worth it for that awesome teardown!!! You now have room for 2 18650s!
There is a plastic layer on the screen face that you can peel off to reveal the screws O_o..it DOES come apart rather easily if you know how to get to all of the screws..this was brutal to watch...lol
warmfreeze yeah I was thinking of this the whole time.. get a hair dryer to heat up the glue and stuff, peel off the plastic of the screen, reveal the screws, unscrew, and you're in like Flynn, without ruining the unit
***** A true EEVBlog follower would have said "in like flynn".
gonXay I've edited the post for that now ;)
I dunno guys, he took the board with the screen out, I think he would have noticed you could simply remove the screen overlay, access the screws and be done with it.
Sooo, EEVblog, were there screws underneath the overlay? :))
That particular STM32 MCU can go up to 72MHz (using the PLL to multiply the input clock). So it might be running higher than 8MHz.
A shutter can also be used to improve the uniformity. If one pixel or a bounce of pixels are nutritiously brighter or dimmer then others, how should the camera know? Or when you have an temperature gradient on the sensor it self: How would the camera know that? By bringing in an "uniform black body emitter" you can correct for those things.
Products designed that way unnecessairly, should be boycotted. It is really going too far, many devices including fitness bands, smart watches, some smartphones, and a wide range of other products, are making use of these unserviceable designs so that the battery can act as their timer for planned obsolescence.
The coil could be a stepper motor. I don't know why it would have a stepper motor, unless it needs to focus a lens. That would be my guess though.
id cut across the case below the front screen undo the 2x screws to change the battery
I think you could actually tear it down normally. Screws on "top" part, that you broke, could be hidden behind the screen protection glass. And the glass itself is likely to be sort of glued to the case.
Nice destruction. the screws are behind the decal around the display and buttons.
EEVblog Oh dear Dave! I saw mike tear down a FLIR device shaped very similarly before and sorta knew you were in for a rough ride right from the off. I think I'd dremel part of the case away to change the battery having watched you nearly bleed.
An 8MHz crystal doesn't mean the STM32 isn't running at a higher speed. The STM32 has a PLL internally.
I don't get it, looks like the screws were accessible by removing the display glass. I was waiting for you to use a thin sharp blade. It was worth a try before getting too brutal.
Hmm Coil @ 29:40 is a shutter/focus coil? Lens is obviously inside the sensor..
I can't help it, but it looks like it is designed so that you can take of the display frontplate. Did you try to poke through the hole of the broken of screws to lift the frontplate?
If this is not just glued/taped on but overmolded and not removable, then someone at Flir was just plain stupid, sorry!
lol you can clearly see 4 screws hidden behind the screen cover, that is probably a sticker. :O
:D
AND if that front cover WASN'T a sticker i would have at least just drilled 4 holes to gain access to the screws instead of murdering that poor tool? :\
I have a feeling it was a sticker..
I was thinking of buying one of these from flir and that's why I watched the video, now I know it's not serviceable I won't be buying one, I want to be able to replace my own battery when it dies not replace the whole system order pay flir an extortionate amount to do it,
Good video
Dave, you ought to get yourself a fibre optic camera.
LOL great video.. ohh boy I can relate..and yeah that plastic layer on top of the back screen.. what a mess if you can't get to that and need to manhandle that rubbercoating..
but great video and you can bet 99% of your viewers can relate to such a situation.
STM is using internal PLL so its runing at 72MHz not at 8MHz
You are literally right next to the crystal... It's the SCTF 8000.
mikeselectricstuff did a similar unit, the sensor at the end is the same as the flir1 iphone device
The STM32 has an internal PLL, even when it is driven with an 8Mhz oszillator, it can run on 70Mhz internally
You think that little coil is some sort of micro shutter thing?
Maybe not good enough to calibrate the sensor to anything good enough for a proper measurement but maybe enough to keep the color gradient good or somthing?
Alyx McCown Yes, I suspect it's performance may not be the best, hence why they didn't use it on the Flir ONE and used a big external one instead?
I remember Mike tearing down the flir ONE and seeing the 2 leads that go to that shutter (assuming that it is one) not being connected to anything, i could be wrong but this could be just taking the edge off, it could also be marketing putting a software cap on it too soon before release, it could also be there just incase they get competition or they will put out another model with that added features and removing the PIR and accepting the limited temperature range of the ONE
But i also have a suspicion that that unpopulated 2 pin header is connected to some unpopulated transistors to do some sort of larger shutter that would make the (possible) built in one moot ... but who knows
You forgot to check the 2m drop-resistance after modifying it!
mystery chip trads "37802" on line one and "1118" or "111B" on line two... not sure what it IS though!
Wow! Great "break" down on a odd piece of *&**. Good Job! Great watch camera too! 8)
Jeez... surprised they haven't potted the darn thing!
If I were the designer, and wanted to secure the unit that badly, I'd at east have those two screws near the tripod let the opposing plastic panel (where it even LOOKS like a battery cover) pop off to at least allow for battery replacement. FORBID they even allow that though! Come on!
Not so much a 'teardown' as a 'breakdown'... :/
***** bordering on destructive teardown
Hey Dave, at about 23:30 you mentioned that the update rate was limited by international regulation. I am curious what you meant? IR camera refresh speed is regulated?
Thanks for the great tear down!
John
nice upgrade. Now at least you can easily change the lithium cell.
I still dont get why people always want thinner and lighter products though...
You could design and print a new front case piece for it.
FYI, the 's' in Fresnel is silent. And I really don't care whether or not other have pointed it out.
Attila Asztalos Not in Australia.
EEVblog It is named after its French developer who's name is pronounced with a silent 's' (fruh-nell). Why would we change how his name is said here in Australia?
Someone should send him an E-meter for a teardown. I'm curious about the build quality of those things.
Why were those two first screws even under an easily removable rubber cover? It's just a cruel joke!
So, they went to the trouble of using an easy to find battery but made it impossible to replace? That really makes no sense. Also, yeah the thing still works, but it won't survive a 2 metre drop anymore.
No idea if the X version has any easier to change battery, kind of a shame cause the use case I have for one means that it's gonna get used a handful of times per year, maybe I should look for alkaline versions
Wow, what a tough bastard this proved to be :)
Getting the battery is next to impossible! Does anyone know how far the unit will allow you to make out a man sized figure in darkness?
hahaha you butchered the hell out of that Dave! Did you catch what Mikes Electric did with his iphone version of the Flir!?
Just found this episode.....this was brutal! A 2 minute teardown turned into a horror movie. This is why we hide the tools when the engineers show up. You never, NEVER get an engineer to do a Techies job!
Now I'm off to unscrunch my forehead from all the cringing I was doing.
Well damn that thing is a nightmare to open!! bummer :(
I bet this coil engages shutter...
Levon Avagyan Yes, looks like it. I have already added an annotation on that and will check tomorrow when back in the lab. It didn't occur to me because I thought the Lepton sensor had no shutter (it doesn't), and an external one would be just that, external, not some clever sneaky tiny clip-on over the sensor that looks integrated with it. The datasheet doesn't show or mention this extra clip-on shutter if it is that.
Thanks for the sacrifice. That was really painful to view. Does it bend? :)
I could visit a medium size particle accelerator on open day. Above the lower level with the particle beam and magnets, there are hundreds of meters of man high electrical cabinets. Guess what the technicians use to find electrical faults? Not a multimeter!
One of these?
very impressive teardown and interesting product.
i would like to know if this imaging IR thermometer can save all of the pixel temperature in the frame while the image is stored, or it just show the center temperature derived from the single IR detector?
if not, why?
many tks for sharing the video
Whoa. 500 dollars? And it was new before this tear down?!
@20:56"what's it running at... only 8 MHz" Well probably not, the stm32 have an internal PLL to multiply the clock, it's uncommon to use more than a 8..12 MHz crystal for that series of MCUs
Look at 19:29 through to 19:32 And you can see a shutter move infront and back.
Pretty weird that given you do these things more often you didn't recognize that the screen protector/shield/window/whatever you call it is just glued on and would easily pop out using a suction cup and some heat, like you know, most cell phone screens these days.It might not be super user friendly to take apart, but it is nowhere near as EVIL as you make it look in this video.
I reckon FLIR have trolled you by sending this knowing you'd want to do a teardown on it ;)
I could understand if they sealed the body like this to make it waterproof but as it stands now it is just to make the battery irreplaceable. Pure evil as you said!
Hi, I've just encountered the same problem but with UTi260B. It just the same! It's screwed from the inside and goes under the screen but you cannot open it. How in the world should I change the battery or service it? If it's broken you just throw it in the garbage? I don't understand.
Hi Dave, I am a boiler repair man, I would like a good thermal imaging camera, which one you recommend? thank you!
Good ol' hot air gun would have loosened up the moulding to service it. But, really, before tossing it, dremel the battery out then black duct tape! ;-)
Dave, you really can't criticise a product because you can't take it apart ! As a consumer I would say it is well built, if it is Dave proof and therefore drop proof ! I would say it was well built as consumers would not be expected to tear it apart. ! You are a little bit unfair to criticise a well put together product because you are subjecting it to something that no user would ever likely (or want) to do.
Clive Shaw Perhaps you missed the part where I said it was well designed and engineered?
If the battery goes you are perfectly happy to just toss it out and spend another 500 just because a 10 dollar battery died? That is bad design to anyone who knows how to maintain the things they buy. Not everyone can have mommy or daddy pay all the bills and buy you whatever you want. Some have to work to play.
It's a good design, in terms of durability, but it would STILL be just as durable if it had accessible screw holes. It's durability would not change. This design only exists to force you to throw away a $500 tool when a $10 battery dies. It is anti-environmental, and it is anti-consumer.
Richard Pi
the lightbulb conspiracy - also known as planned obsolescense - if the battery is not serviceble, then it needs to be redesigned, we have too much dead electronics in land fill because batteries are irreplaceble.
Li-ion batteries are only good up to 2 years if your lucky, then its borrowed time.
Leave them flat or let them get too hot, its the end for the poor cell in short time
voltare2amstereo I agree 100%. I would never buy anything at that price with no access to the battery. It will be junk in a few years.
Honestly, it's amazingly annoying that anything with rechargable batteries does not provide any moeans to replace the batteries. They're going to fail way before the device is otherwise broken or unusable.
If you ever make a petition to "hung drawn and quartered" anyone designing such unservicable things, I'll happily sign it. We need to get rid of this ridicilous idea that we can just junk perfectly operable things just because the battery died.
Great vids man this is off topic but i have another oscilloscope question im sure you've seen already but im going to use it for things like setting gians on amplifiers and other audio stuff can i get 1 with a rta built-in for not a ton of money if the have to be separate thats fine but i dont wont to put to much in i probably wont be using them a ton but would be nice to have thank you
The 8mhz xtal is irrelevent; obviously the cpu has a PLL; it runs at (up to) 72mhz.
Can't wait to hear what the manufacturer says about the poor repairability score. Will we find that there is an easy way that Dave did not find?
i think you can actually see the crystal in the A405N...yes? or no?
sonicase Yeah, look like you can see the tuning fork!