EEVblog
ฝัง
- เผยแพร่เมื่อ 1 ต.ค. 2024
- Dave tears down the 1983 vintage Apple Lisa, the first graphical user interface machine that pre-dates the Macintosh.
Teardown photos: www.eevblog.com...
Datasheets:
Apple Lisa repair guide: ftp://ftp.apple.asimov.net/pub/apple_II/documentation/applelisa/Lisa_Do-It-Yourself_Guide.pdf
R6500 processor: www.datasheet4u...
AM2148 static RAM www.usbid.com/a...
AMD AM9512 floating point math co-processor: bitsavers.infor...
MOSTEK MK4564 www.minuszerode...
Switching regulator: www.ic72.com/pd...
Apple Macintosh Teardown: • EEVblog #414 - Apple M...
Apple Newton Teardown: • EEVblog #418 - Mailbag...
Sanmina PCB's are still around! www.sanmina.com...
Teardown Photos: www.eevblog.com...
Forum: www.eevblog.com...
EEVblog Main Web Site: www.eevblog.com
The 2nd EEVblog Channel: / eevblog2
Support the EEVblog through Patreon!
/ eevblog
EEVblog Amazon Store (Dave gets a cut):
astore.amazon.c...
Donations:
www.eevblog.com...
Projects:
www.eevblog.com...
Electronics Info Wiki:
www.eevblog.com...
I'm tearing you apart, Lisa!
Dangit_Bobby Nice The Room reference play on words
just imagine, 30 years later, theres a guy open your gtx1080, E5 rig and says OH MA GAWD, look at all this vantage stuff......
Yeah, I was thinking about that when I watched this. It's hard to imagine that the stuff we have now will be laughably basic in a few decades. Probably going to happen though!
3325 is a Gregorian date code. The first number is the last number of the year, and the last three is the day. In this case, it would translate to the 325 day of 1983.
This could be a MacWorks XL machine. That was Sun Remarketing's custom ROM and software package which enabled the Lisa to run the Macintosh operating system and applications. It was popular enough that in 1985, Apple rebranded the Lisa as the "Macintosh XL" and bundled it with the MacWorks software. By that time, the price had been reduced to US$3995.
VWestlife why u here?
Interesting!
Source?
You could be right. I had forgotten about that until you mentioned it.
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Apple_Lisa
This *is* a Macintosh XL. Model number A6S0300, as shown at 7:02 and according to this : en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Compact_Macintosh.
It's a shame that Apple went from making cool, modular, repairable/up-gradable systems like this, to their current generation of ultra low build cost, non-up-gradable, disposable, 2 generations behind the times technology stuff that you see today
Today´s apple isn´t apple anymore, since Steve backtrack´ed hisself before he passed away (R.I.P.!)....It´s becoming just another phone/computer company only selling Steve´s ideas, as they running out of gas by now, anyway....
arcadeuk If you want to optimise things at any cost in terms of having the largest possible battery size, thinest/lightest form factor possible, then you can do that by getting rid of DIMM slots and soldering the RAM to the main board, going for PCIe SSD sticks (mainly for speed) rather than 2.5"SATA format etc.
Not everyone will like that due to the difficulty in upgrading of course. But most people want the highest performance possible packed into the smallest volume and weight with the highest battery life possible.
arcadeuk Blame Steve Jobs, Wozniak always wanted his machine to be upgradeable.
Steven Whiting I don't find this an issue anyway. Buy the top end macbook, sell it on eBay after ~2-3 years, repeat...
All major manufacturers will slowly follow suit eventually in the next 5-10 years I expect.
Just like everyone complained about mini-SIM, then micro-SIM. Having non-removable batteries, having no SD card slots, having no DVD drives in laptops etc. But in the end some of the other manufacturers have also followed suit with similar tradeoffs in their phones/laptops in order to improve form factor and battery size.
arcadeuk I don't agree that they are 2 generations behind. While they usually take their time to perfect existing technologies rather than saying "We were 1st!" (touch ID for instance), they do have 1st to market features from time to time such as implementing the 1st 64bit architecture CPU on a phone. (Of course people can argue about the 4GB RAM thing and other people can argue that going 64bit sooner rather than later will prevent fragmentation similar to how windows have 32/64 bit issues and OS X doesn't)
And if you've used a mac, you'd know that their notebooks are certainly no slouch and use top spec parts.
Remember when opening an Apple product didn't require special screwdrivers or voided the warranty? Pepperidge Farm remembers.
Remember when there was no warranty?
+Corristo89 That would be the original Macintosh, released in early 1984. It used torx bits, which were not really available outside of specialist engineering stores at that time. The case screws were also recessed down a channel so narrow that a bitdriver wouldn't fit, and so long that a regular length screwdriver wouldn't reach. Even in the early 90s, the official driver tools were so expensive that I had to make my own by welding a bit to the end of a steel rod. To get the right size bit, I put my Mac Plus in a hiking backpack and rode my BMX to the engineering store.
+Nic Brown That may be the reason my Uncle doesn't like any bits that are not slotted and philips. He must still think that they are hard to get. Now these days you can get all of those things if you look in the right places even the 5 lobe security Torx bits. I know a place not too far from me that has a few odd specialty bits and these are hard to find ones that would be used on a Volkswagen. Just try looking for a 14 mm triple square bit. Some people even in hardware stores aren't even aware they exist in that size. It gets worse, some people don't know what they are and assume (make an ass out of u and me) that they are Torx when in fact triple square bits have 12 square points that are more like splines on an axle. They get the name triple square because if you overlayed three squares correctly you would see the shape of that bit. I have heard of people trying to use a Torx bit in a bolt made for a triple square but it is a bad idea unless you like broken bolts that are even harder yet to remove!! If you have a car that uses triple square bolts, make sure your mechanic knows what they are and has them. Some people hate triple squares because if the bolts or bits break it can be difficult to remove them. If you ever remove a bolt that uses a triple square bit to remove it, look to make sure that it is not cracked or rusted badly or you may be in for an unpleasant surprise next time you have to get it out.
I still have the tool to open the original Macintosh. It has a torx on one end and a thing to fit in the crevice around the computer to pry the two case halves apart.
@@lesliefranklin1870 mine is branded as a “Mac cracker”. As you say, it’s just a torx but with a very long shaft
I have some information about Sanmina, one of the board manufacturers/assemblers. Sanmina is still very much alive and has many locations around the world.
The company I work for sends all of our custom boards for our products to Sanmina's PCB assembly plant in Ottawa Canada to get populated as well as for any re-work that we cannot do in-house on RMA boards. Really neat to see that they helped make some of the memory boards in vintage Apple computers!
Really late to the party here but I work for an OEM in the medical field, and we contract out to Sanmina as well. One of our customers contracts a lot of their work out to them. It seems at least from my narrow view in the medical field that Sanmina does a significant amount of systems integration work as well.
Like watching the Crocodile Hunter wrangle PC's...
Darn Suicide batteries, if only the original owners knew how much these machines will be worth today, they would take the 15minutes to remove them :(
RIP Apple Lisa II
To be fair, Xerox was paid a big block of stock for that. It would be worth a staggering amount if they had actually KEPT it.
Dave stating that Apple "stole" PARCs IP is a wide-spread misconception. IP was licensed to Apple in exchange for stock. Also Dave saying that the PARC machines were nothing more than prototypes is not correct, they sold for 30k, which puts the Lisa and it's failure in perspective, because Apple basically tried to offer the same product for 20k less using stock hardware parts.
Poor ol' Xerox , just cant win can they? ;)
All their brightest research geeks would show this unique cutting edge tech to the management, and theyre like "great kid - now how does this help us sell photocopiers?" Shot 'emsevles in the foot - again!
I’m sure that a lot of people that had held Apple stock back then are in the same boat.
Nice to see AMD is still using the same logo to this day. Noticed a few AM chips on the board.
There is something oddly interesting about seeing the guts and architect of old computers.
I had a laptop with some corrosion issues that I was able to fix using brutal methods. Since I was about to toss it, I thought "why bother to be gentle?" So, I poured lacuqer thinner on the motherboard then went at with a toothbrush and high pressure shop air. After doing this a few times and taking extra care to get the solvent out form under the BGAs, it actually worked. I really didn't expect it to, but it did.
Cool. One of our Lisa machines has really bad corrosion like yours. Fortunately we've also got one that works well. Great video :)
I bought my Apple Lisa from Sun Remarketing in the old days and imported it to Germany. My uncle had to drive me to the Airport to pick up the machine an bring it through custom. Later I wrote my diploma using Ragtime on the Lisa. It still works but it does not boot from hard drive any more. I have to boot from 3,5" floppy. I would be very interested to have a second one and would be happy to get one through custom again.
I worked for Apple in 81-82 in their Stanton California facilities, 1st putting keyboards together and later testing them. Most if not all machines were still assembled and made in the US then but Apple decided to out source production so all parts made after 82 were made and assembled in Singapore and will have those stamps. I can see by some of the boards solder work the assembly was not as good and that is a surprise as Apple had pretty high standards. This is original work I see not reworked parts so our teams still were better trained the those that replaced us.
I think this unit may have been built in 1983 as a Lisa 1, but didn't sell, therefore it was re-manufactured into a Lisa 2 in 1984.
Landrew0, I think you are right about the remanufacturing of that computer.
According to the serial number plate, it was manufactured on November 21, 1983. I believe the IO board was likely an upgrade as was one of the RAM boards since it shows dates of 1984 or 1985. It also has the parallel port which my Lisa (manufactured in August 1983) does not have. This Lisa was the 337th Lisa built by Apple.
You are likely correct that it was probably originally intended as a Lisa 1 but was refitted and sold as a Lisa 2, especially due to the date it rolled off the assembly line prior to the Lisa 2 availability in January 1984. (I believe my Lisa was sold as a Lisa 1 and upgraded with the 3.5 inch floppy kit when it was offered by Apple to replace the Twiggy drives.)
To break down the details I have provided, it’s based primarily on the serial number, A3325337.
A = Manufactured in USA
3 = Manufactured in 1983
325 = 325th day of the year, Nov 21
337 = 337th Lisa
It's amazing just how many engineers, hobbyists and assorted nerds just don't understand basic computer history, or choose to ignore it. SIMPLE VERSION: Apple didn't "steal" the idea of a GUI. They did a deal with Xerox, and then went on to develop their OWN system. But, people want to hate, and they don't care if they have to make up bullcrap to justify their hate.
Does not help that they brag they invented it.
Levi Dettwyler
In their ad in Wall Street Journal titled "Welcome, IBM. Seriously" it is said "When we invented the first personal computer system...". The ad for Apple Lisa said "Apple invents the personal computer. Again." During iphone's announcement a mouse was put in the same picture with multi-touch display titled "revolutionary interfaces". It's not much of a statement but rather fuel for the annoying fanboys.
cyberconsumer Wait a minute. These things WERE revolutionary. Apple did indeed make the mouse a mainstream device. And they also made touch-devices mainstream. And desktop publishing. And the GUI mainstream.
Of course marketing departments are going to boast and engage in hyperbole. But, so what? Apple have been a tremendous force for innovation throughout their history. Anyone denying that needs to read their history.
Technically IBM outsold Apple from the get go until Windows became mainstream. But the result of such marketing is fanboys going "How dare you bring up Apple didn't actually invent the mouse!?" Uh...
cyberconsumer Settle down. Nobody is saying Apple invented the mouse. But they successfully brought the GUI and mouse to mainstream computing. Read your history and stop trying to make arguments out of nothing.
FYI, Dave refers to PARC. which means Palo Alto Research Center . *sniff*, the legendary Xerox R&D lab.
You could probably ghetto-fix the traces with a buttload of jumper wires. Immense pain in the arse, but probably easier than getting another board. :3
Jerkwad152 that could work but dunno about the contacts
$10,000 in 1983 is the same as $23,784.00 in 2015.
Handmade route board with that size? The guy had balls
Even best autorouters those old days had been cost a fortune and had been *veeeery* slooooow and produce non working boards may some 3 out of 5. So manual routing was the way to go and very common. I used to layout the boards all myself when working in that PCB design job. We used protel DXP and still had these unix based specctra autorouter. My boss bought it, some years ago and never get it to run. So i spent ample spare time to set it up and runnning finally on a "spare" HP-unix machine.
Just to see how that specctra was all about....My boss went: "...i´m not gonna paying you for doing that..." I went, hey it´s all pure spare time....As i want to see this up and running.
Those had been days....;)
TubiCal Damn you bosses!
Xano Trevisan Kothe Yeah, not overly hard to do a board that size by hand for a good PCB designer, just tedious.
EEVblog thanks for the info. But I'm pretty sure I could not do that
the physical size is big, but the amount of traces is that many compare to today's boards.
As you mentioned at the end of the video this is a Lisa 2 or 2/5 - it didn't have an internal hard drive. That's what the parallel port on the back is for. The cable tucked into the expansion port area was an aftermarket hard drive add on - it would have looped out the back to plug into the rear parallel port. The 2/10 model had the port routed inside and connected to a massive 10mb hard disk.
The expansion cards are actually ZIF sockets - turn the little metal rod and it spreads the pins, then you can simply slide the card into the back of the machine without taking the card cage out.
Too bad about the batteries leaking on at one - it's a common problem.
The Sun rom lets the Lisa use an 800k floppy drive. That power supply is from a later 2/10 model and is higher power. It also has a jumper inside for 240v operation.
I have some videos of my 2/10 on my channel if you want to see one of these beasties in operation. It has an aftermarket (AST) memory board bringing it to 2mb, which helps the OS run a bit faster - the OS actually uses a swap file on the disk!
The interlock switches don't do a soft power off - they cut power right away.
The copy protection isn't too hard to get around, you simply use a hex editor to zero out a few bits at the start of the "master" diskettes.
If you do decide to part it out I'd love to get the CRT board and power supply :)
I remember seeing an add for it when I was in high school. Showed it to my dad, he looked at the price and went into a rage lol.
that card edge connector... I don't think I've ever seen a board age that bad.
Couldn't watch the whole video, but I hope you guys put that back together in the end and preserve it... this thing is rare and worth thousands of dollars, given the condition its in. Even if it's non-functional, it's still a big deal by itself.
I noticed the power supply had a jumper wire to select between 110V and 230V, and I can see that it's already set to 230V. Pretty cool that such an old SMPS had that feature!
I seem to recall the 1981 or 1982 IBM PC had it as an external switch, just like many older products without SMPS.
You can do it Dave! with all your years of electronics repair experience, YOU CAN REBUILD THIS!!!! If not, give me a list of all the anomalies and I will send repair kits all the way to Ausland (I live in east coast U.S.) just to get this this baby running... You don't know how much it means to me to get an original Apple Lisa running again.... This machine was pretty much the holy grail in terms of early 80's consumer electronics to me! PLEASE message me Dave!!!! I will not disappoint you! I promise!!!
John Hindrance That is my main email....
On second thought, will pay good money including shipping just to get this sent to me...
What sort of design process/program would the apple engineers have used to design their PCBs? I see they have custom silkscreens etc
Hi! I discovered this video thanks to the recommendation TH-cam made while I was watching one of 8-Bit Guy's videos, and I have to say, I really enjoyed this video. It was really neat to see the inside of such an old computer and show how much things had changed since the 80s when it come to computing. Real shame the computer was beyond repair, though. It would've been really awesome to see it restored to its full glory.
Ah the good old time, when the CPU didn't need a fan, nor a heat sink.
I write this since I bought a Lisa 2 back in April of 1984 for $8266.67, a figure which shall live in infamy. Things I noted about this retro review... my processor was touted as "the fast Motorola 68000, running at 3 Mc." (not 5). My original system package was a STANDARD 512 K RAM model with a $1000 (approx.) 512 K RAM upgrade board installed, composed of double sided 16K chips... wall to wall. The two RAM boards were identical to the darker version of the boards you found on this clunker. My system board had very FEW wire jumpers. Not sure what kind of board you found on this model. My EXTRA cost hard disk was an 8", 5 Megabyte hard drive which was attached with that parallel port and cable to a case which covered the top and matched the beige case (light beige, too... NO yellow!). It made a sound which had to be heard to be believed. I learned, you DON'T put a machine called a Lisa in your bedroom. (arrrrgh!) Your comment about the damned software serial number kluge was spot on. A killer. The software was called the Lisa 7/7 package and cost another $500. The package was the figure quoted for all hardware + software. It was not sluggish, in its day. It delivered amazing results, but NOT standardized for data comparison or sharing. The 7 pin printer could go all day (often did) and was a tank. That was part of the package, too. All in all, I was TOLD at the time that it would be upgraded and remain the flagship machine of Apple. They lied. I still use Apple gear because of the operating system design. I'm more prone to UNIX than Windows. Thank you for remembering this machine. There are 5000 more of them in their original boxes buried in the desert outside of Denver, Colorado, where Apple put them to rest rather than let anyone touch them. de KQ2E
Oh, sad to see boards rot away like that. I missed the moment when my Mac Classic lost it's sound and when I opened it up to recap it... aww shit
It got all new caps and now boots but sound and debugger buttons are now long gone, also possibly the floppy drive, can't test it, major bummer :(
Alot of apple machines where killed by their batteries going bad, especially the ones that had the Maxell lithium batteries that would vent at some point after they died. I had an Mac IIci that the battery did this, not only did it wreck the board, but it damaged the floppy drive and the caustic fumes / vapor from the battery actually got inside the hard drive as well via the vent holes.
Not only computers, some great synthesisers gone that way as well.....all beond repair, NiCads are even worse and not uncommon as well.....it´s so sad.....
SMT Capacitors like to vent on some other Macs, like the SE/30. I've an LED signboard that I repaired with battery leakage damage, too. ):
I have repaired a few battery damaged boards. Not fun. But its doable.
According to the Los Angeles Times, Datapower fell on hard times soon after they had made this power supply. In Nov. of 1985 they posted a quarterly loss of $231,000 (citing cancelled orders) and went out of business in Nov. 1988. I'll bet that the failure of Lisa was a major factor in their demise.
This might sound like an assanine question, but I'm serious here: do all Aussies chant USA! USA! ... when they read it on something? I'm in the U.S. (Michigan) and I've never actually heard anyone do that in person.
dinkc64 It's a stereotypical Yankee crowd chant. Often heard at sporting or other patriotic events etc Just type "USA chant" into youtube. e.g. th-cam.com/video/NCB3md8AVd0/w-d-xo.html
Hahahaha
+EEVblog Yeah, but that is your joke every time you get something from the US. It does get old, to the point of being somewhat degrading to a degree. I'm not trying to complain, and maybe it is just me as well. Still love the videos! I'm currently at University for EE and like use them as an educational supplement, so thanks!
+GrimL0gic agreed. I'm born and breed in the US and don't hear this at any sporting events I go to. also from Michigan...
+GrimL0gic lol degrading
Repairing the traces and finding/replacing failed components on that Lisa would be pretty damn enjoyable. Yeah, late comment but I somehow stopped watching Dave's videos in 2011/2012 and have been trying to catch up on some of the uploads I missed.
Those expansion board sockets are actually Zero Insertion Force sockets. Open the back panel, twist the handle to open the socket's contacts, and you can slide an expansion board from the back! (I had a Printer Card, with parallel ports.) Twist back to close the contacts, of course. Then take the appropriate cover plate from the back panel, put the panel on, and you're done. ZIF card slots - nice!
The capacitor/pcb rot is not unexpected, but still heartbreaking to see. I hope you re-assembled the poor girl.
As Indiana Jones once said: "It belongs in a museum!"
I had the opportunity to work with the Apple Lisa when it first came out and was expected to be "the next big thing". I was working in the R&D department of Compugraphic Corporation (they made huge, expensive typesetters) and they apparently were interested in new computers with at least some graphics capabilities. I actually got it to do some simple animation graphics. But basically we just played with it.
Not stolen. Xerox got Apple shares!
"At the time, Apple was still a year away from its IPO. Everybody wanted in. Apple was the hottest of hot companies. So Xerox and Apple made a deal: Apple would be granted 3 days of access to PARC in exchange for Xerox being allowed to buy 100,000 shares of Apple stock for $10 per share.
Apple went public a year later, and the value of that stock had grown to $17.6 million. Xerox paid a million for the shares, so essentially Apple paid Xerox $16.6 million for showing its research to Jobs and his team."
Thanks for dispelling the common misconception!
The popular pastime these days is to shit on Apple's parade.
Apple IS a great marketing company! So? They have a great set of engineers too!
They have every right to build a business on looking at what is available, and making a BETER product!
It's just that not everyone will agree it's better, and some will ignore the engineering and just call it stealing.
It was "borrowed". No licensing agreement was ever signed, but at the time, Xerox didn't consider the ideas in its user interface patentable. Apple did innovate there: after "borrowing" the Xerox Alto/Star interface, it launched a series of lawsuits claiming to own the "look and feel" of the GUI that it had lifted directly from Alto/Star without signing any license agreement.
Infinite loop Steve Jobs recovered his stock when Apple Absorbed next and also when Disney Absorbed PIXAR. When Steve JObs died he was one of the richest Billionares in the world with value somewhere around Bill Gates.
@@cygil1 except Xerox did grant access to the labs as part of the stock agreement. Xerox made a pretty penny with the block of launch-shares.
@@websuspect Most of Jobs' money was from a late-grant of Apple shares and Disney. After he sold his NeXT-enabled stock thinking Apple was in a free-fall (and it was) he was still miles behind billionare status until Pixar went public (and he became a billionaire at IPO).. His biggest wealth came from being one of the - if not the-largest Disney stockholders after the Disney-Pixar deal. Steve was worth around 10b at his passing in 2011. Bill Gates at the time was worth 5X that the same year.
There's supposed to be a huge landfill full of these that were scrapped by Apple, much like the recently discovered Atari landfill which you can buy recovered items from on ebay.
news.yahoo.com/atari-games-buried-landfill-net-37-000-ebay-162501577.html
*****
No, they were largely the ET game. Thy found it, and it was full of ET games.
***** Look at the cartridges that were dug up and sold on ebay. They are in shrink-wrapped boxes with manuals and store price stickers on them. That essentially proves they were unsold inventory, not "defective" games.
JKC40 There were other items they dug up, but a good portion of the items were indeed ET games, since they made so many and it sold so poorly. But they did find other titles in the excavation, along with marketing materials and other junk from Atari. There was a documentary made about this that was on XBOX Live about o month ago.
***** They were not defective, Ben Heck got a few of these from eBay and cleaned them up and it worked just fine
Don't churn it awn, take it apaht
There are still some deluded Apple fanboys who think Steve Jobs invented the GUI. I like to show them videos of the Xerox Star, released in 1981, and then ask them when the Lisa was released.
The Macintosh wasn't the first GUI machine, but fair's fair: it was the first even remotely *affordable* GUI machine. After they blew about $50 mil developing the Lisa.
I just love the Motorola 68000, even still supports a modern debian port to this day.
Was IBM involved in the design of this? Or was that only Later with the PowerPC?
heh, back when Apple made things even remotely openable
had to
***** Ah, never seen one
also every imac that predates the unibodies
thegaygaymerchannel+ they haven't made one of those in over 5 years.
we dont laugh at skoda owners anymore, we have apple owners for that now :)
This was probably an original Lisa that was upgraded to a Lisa 2/5 when Apple offered the upgrade (for free) in 1984. The main "tells" are the battery pack on the I/O board, the Lite Adapter, and the very different looking RAM cards.
As far as I understand, Apple never actually sold the 2/5, it was only an upgrade from the original Lisa, which not only didn't have a built-in hard drive, but also only had 512KB RAM. The upgrade consisted of replacing the Twiggy floppies with the Sony microfloppy (and Lite adapter), replacing the faceplate, and adding an additional RAM card. Every original Lisa was sold with an external ProFile hard disk, hence there was no need for the internal one.
You should definitely check out either the MAME/MESS Lisa emulation or LisaEm, the Lisa OS had a number of features that weren't present in the Mac OS until System 7, including virtual memory. (The 55ns AMD 1Kx4 RAMs and 74F logic by the CPU are its custom MMU.) It also didn't have open & save dialog boxes, because it could run the Desktop at the same time as applications, and thus didn't need them: They were invented by the Macintosh team to work around the fact they couldn't run Finder alongside an application.
I'd also suggest checking out the programming details on Bitsavers: The low-level OS itself was very Unix-like and even had pipes and shared libraries. The high-level Application ToolKit (as it was called then) was a shared library written in Clascal, was a direct ancestor of MacApp, and an indirect ancestor of the NeXT frameworks in use on the Mac today. The overall class hierarchy is surprisingly modern.
One place Lisa was entrenched for a while was NASA: They used a whole lot of Lisa systems running LisaProject to do Space Shuttle maintenance and launch scheduling, and I think Apple had to do a lot of work to help them bring over the documents to MacProject later in the 1980s.
Our family purchased a few Macs from Sun Remarking locally here in Logan Utah, the first was an 840AV. One was an Macintosh TV. It was a black LC or Performa IIRC. It had a TV tuner built in. I don't remember when Sun shut down but last I looked there was a CNC plasma cutting business in the building. I remember the roof had "SUN" written in white shingles. You could see it from miles away. Fond memories.
LOL At those "memory cards" as big as a fucking Laptop of today... Its amazing how much memory has advanced, Now we have freaking 128GB MicroSD cards....
I'm sure somebody else has posted the explanation of the date, but that's likely a Julian date code, typically used for food. The format is YDDD, where Y is the last digit of the year, and DDD is the number of days into the year. 3325 would then represent the 325th day of the 3rd year of the decade, likely 1983, giving us November 21st, 1983, I believe.
I SWEAR I FREAKING LOVE TAKING THINGS COMPLETELY APART just to see whats inside! Is that some kind of weird disorder I have??
State of the Art when I was in Junior High School.
Surprisingly advanced computer on that early... I was still playing with 8 bit computer with 16/64KB of memory :P
Shame about the battery corrosion. I see that a lot in the arcade business too. Many a good machine ruined by leaking NiCads.
Looked like the 68k in there was an 8Mhz rated one. I wonder why Apple decided to underclock it?
Love the ceramic 2148 RAM's. Atari and Midway used a lot of those in their games back in the day,
I'm willing to bet the majority of this corrosion is not from the batteries, but rather from sitting in a basement that flooded. I've seen this exact kind of corrosion on boards that sat in sewage / water in a flooded crawlspace.
idontwantagoogle+page
In my experience, the nasty blue fuzz is definitely from the batteries. The vapors are heavier than air and collect in the bottom of the machine. I've worked on several things where even a single NiCad cell was enough to corrode everything within a foot below of where it was mounted. Very possible this one had water damage as well, but hard to say for sure.
If I recall the 68k Motorola ran at 8mhz initially. The reason why it may have only run at 5mhz could be due to the clock division from things that ran at a certain frequency at a higher speed. Instead of having its own clock it used the main clock and divided down until it got into a usable range. It's just my own theory though.
idontwantagoogle+page
Its 99,9% from the batteries... You can clearly see that boards that were behind (both memory cards) are completely OK. Btw. leaked batteries are even worse than flood water...
sprybug Yeah, often they used a divisor on the video-clock to get the CPU-clock
Sun Remarketing modified and sold refurbished Lisa machines that had a Macintosh ROM. My dad purchased one of these back in the day. There were some weird hacks to get it working because the Lisa's pixels were not square.
I have 5 complete Apple Lisa computer in various states of disrepair. Hope to restore a few with the original 7/7 OS when I have the time and money. Good overview of the units.
Yeah, about the memory boards, I haven't heard of Astro but Sanmina is definately in business, still stuffing boards and building chasses after all these years. Still based in San Jose, I believe
I think I recall a fair bit of the Mac software was actually designed on Lisa machines.
If you want even more weirdness the Lisa couldn't write it's own software, and needed a separate OS to do so. I think the Mac had the same problem which was why the software was developed on the Lisa till a few years later when a proper dev system was made.
I‘ve got an idea, maybe you can transform it into an apple ii, i mean use the crt as a monitor put a apple iie or iic board into it and put a cable on the Keyboard put in a case, and you are basicly done. For the floppy-drive you maybe can use the one wich is already in this thing, i know its a bit of a shame to kill this beatiful Apple Lisa System but it is almoust inrepairable. Maybe you think about it
Same problem as the Amiga 2000: That Fucking Battery!
Whoever thought it would be a good idea to solder down a battery that can leak to a PCB should get shot.
As for your current current machine, take out the guts, put a RasPi in there, adapt the CRT to FBAS and call it a day in hardware terms. For software, boot into a kiosk mode that starts LisaEm. :)
Thank you, it was a great teardown.
This is sad that this old computer is passed away mainly due to battery acid.
Awesome! Would love to see just what it would take to repair that kind of corrosion, too. From an artistic standpoint, restoration of vintage hardware is going to be more and more important as museums look to restore / preserve works created with such hardware.
Apple rebranded the Lisa a few years later as the Mac XL with ROMs the run Mac software. I sold a few then I worked as a salesman in an Apple dealer.
Those batteries are probably nickel cadmium but they remind me of the way that alkaline batteries leak in forgotten toys. It is a bit sad to find a toy that you used to play with as a child 20 years later to find that the batteries have leaked and ruined it.
Just found your channel, love these teardowns!! Thanks!
I'd love to see that thing working again, even if it wasn't with the original parts.
2021 jan - happy new year. I remember the Lisa, was extrelmy expensive when new. Very rare to see even back when new.
4 days before the powersupply was made i was born
Remember: A Lisa that doesn't even function still costs $600 alone
0:25 I learned about Apple Lisa over twenty years ago in an issue of AMERICAN HERITAGE OF INVENTION AND TECHNOLOGY magazine
Hi Dave. Since you love retro computers, have you ever disassembled a Casio SK-1? Could be loads of fun for ya :)
I don't thing it's aluminum, I think it's galvanized steel.
At 14:21 what is the DIP chip marked "Dale"? It is silk screened "3K RPAK". Some sort of memory. From Dale???
cemx86 It's as it says, a 3K resistor pack. Was unusually in black molded chip package though.
brings back fun memories. Liked the Lisa (Had a modified V2) but still preferred The IIe Europlus for railway signalling educational projects as it was easier for students to get their heads around. There were Matsushita drives that were an easy retrofit for much more reliable operation :-)
Would it be possible to turn that into an oscilloscope? I've seen people tap audio directly into the X and Y of CRTs successfully, but i'm wondering about using a microcontroller to add some triggering or something.
Good thinking! Sometiems the horizontal defl coil is part and parcel of the tube EHT Flyback Transformer circuit, but thats ok - just cut the wires to the vertical coils and connect a speaker level signal - I'd do that to old TV's
just give the inside a good clean, pop in a raspberry pi, hawkboard or something like that, load a good emulator on it and hook it to the crt. Hook up an old 3.5 floppy drive and and you got yourself a working Lisa.
Or turn it into a modern PC in a Lisa case.
What is the blue stuff? I noticed it several times. (Basically, whenever you pointed it out.)
I mostly only care so I can Google it and learn stuff. :)
The last of the Apple LISA's were dumped and buried in an unmarked landfill in Idaho - - sounds like a sobriquet
Yeah, Sanmina is still around. I used to work in one of their plants in Mexico debugging failures in satellite TV receivers assembled there.
USA USA
As the computer expert where I worked my boss had me look at the Lisa and after five minutes I told him it wasn't worth it if it was free. Convinced him to wait a couple of year and then we shifted over to computer accounting for a third what Lisa cost and had ten times the machine.
I bet the 8 bit guy would love to have one of these
We had a Lisa back in the day. I loved it.
I use to buy from Sun Remarketing. If you needed an old Apple PSU, or motherboard etc, you could usually buy one from them. Even down to Apple part number, cables, case parts etc...
FilmFactry en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Sun_Remarketing. Perhaps Dave's machine was a Lisa Professional?
Bill De La Vega Thats what I was thinking. Whatever happened to Sun Remarketing in Utah? Lisa reminds me of the Apple ///. What would the Apple IV look like lol?
Did you find signatures of the build team inside the main cover, like the other mac?
The PSU made a lot later, LOL.
Shit, it had the 68000 what a beast!
Sanmina one of the worlds largest CEM, yes they are still around.
Are you sure this is a Lisa 2 and not an Lisa XL from 1985 or later? about Sun Marketing - In 1987, Sun Remarketing purchased about 5,000 Macintosh XLs and upgraded them. Some leftover Lisa computers and spare parts were available until recently when Cherokee Data (who purchased Sun Remarketing) went out of business.
With the help of Sun Remarketing in 1989, Apple disposed of approximately 2,700 unsold Lisas in a guarded landfill in Logan, Utah, in order to receive a tax write-off on the unsold inventory.[
Even a Lisa II is worth money. Very sad to see all the battery acid corrosion. The memory boards are probably still good though. Not an "Apple Fan Boy" but I do appreciate that this, or more accurately the Lisa 1 was literally Genesis for the modern computer world. Sad thing is, Apple sent 2700 NIB Lisa machines to a landfill for a tax write-off. Very eco-friendly company indeed!
that is one i RELAY want! especially the first one with the "floppy" drive. you have the second version with the 3.5" drive. PLZ dont damage it! ;)
How did they get 100,000 people to pay $10,000 for a home computer?
It was targeted at Business, no home use. Home use was Apple II
Lol @ doesn't think it works!?? He's not tested it yet then... at $10,000 it's not much of a bargain! lolz I wouldn't be given it (unless i could sell it for at least £10)..
It cost $10000 because it was designed and built in California. Power supply in Orange County, and the rest of it in the Silicone Valley or Bay Area.
Model A6S0200 is a Lisa-2, A6S0300 is a Macintosh XL, should have the 800k upgraded floppy. Last week I got the same one, came out of an attic, and its setup exactly like yours, same ROM revision, mine also has no hard drive. The XL is very rare, apple only sold them for a short time, google its history. The case design and way it comes apart is brilliant!
If you read The Steve Jobs book you'll realise most of the products Steve Jobs created failed, it was the Steve Wozniak products that kept them afloat with Apple 1 and Apple 2.
The Manufactured date could be like US MRE's in which the first number is the year and the last 3 are the days, so around the 325th day of 1983? (for the original unit without any of the mods in it)
I would love to see you use a Raspberry PI to drive the video hardware. Please?
Xerox made the first GUI system, apple (Steve Jobs) saw it one day at Xerox headquarters and knew it would be the next leap in computing, so he copied the Idea... He asked Bill Gates - Microsoft to help with the Mac software interface and Bill Gates said lets make one for the PC behind Apples back, so Apple took them Microsoft to court in 1980, it took 5 years but Microsoft won the right to make WINDOWS because it was on a different computing platform, the IBM PC, that's why Windows didn't come out for sale until 1985 even though the software is copyrighted 1980.... Xerox did it first. give them the credit for all the GUI systems today!....