That man Obi-Wan is a master of the trolling arts. The man literally switched to form IV ataru just to frustrate Vader. No one does it better than Kenobi.
It also explains why when they meet in another nine years, Vader is more cautious and measured. He knows Obi Wan can flip on a moment's notice to be dangerously aggressive so he doesn't rush in
I dont understand people saying old Ben Vs Vader is meaningless, or pointless, or "stupid" now after this show. I see it as A distraction, and a way to be joined with the force, I think old ben was close to death anyway. But yes I think Vader was cautious, of the master obi wan, but he hasn't felt him or heard of him in sometime and maybe thought he was dead. Obi wan was very clever.. and once he sacrificed himself an joined the force.. I'm sure vader had a visit..
Obi wan found a slight height difference in the tiles and Vader with his robotic eyes saw the slightly inclined of 4%degree and knew it could loose it all this time
This is the coolest thing to me. When I saw this, I realized immediately that Obi-Wan changed up his style. Even being *the* master of soresu wouldn't be enough to stop the sheer power and cunning of Vader. We saw a bit of it earlier in the season, though Obi was much weaker, he tried to play it defensive and Vader steamrolled him. His only hope was to jump in and swap strikes to try and create an opening because he couldn't afford to wait for one. For most Jedi, this would be suicide, but not for Obi-Wan Kenobi. He had just enough skill, just enough power, just enough cunning, and just enough heart to pull through and topple the juggernaut of Darth Vader. Love this fight❣️
It is ultimately his acceptance that gave him the strength he needed. Accepting the loss of Anakin, Qui-gon, and most off all accepting himself and his mistakes so that he can finally start moving forward again. This duel shows that he has risen above his past, while Vader is still steeped in it. All Vader's feelings, his hate are him not letting go, and I think this fight shows that above anything else. The same thing is shown in that fight vs Maul, "Look what I have risen above." A line that is shown rather than said here and I absolutely love it. Couldn't have done it better personally.
This was expected. Obi-Wan is an experienced swordsman. There's a reason he attained the rank of Master. He knows when to stay on the defense and when to go on the offense. Doing the latter would require him to switch from Soresu to another form like Ataru. If Obi-Wan had just stuck to Soresu for an entire fight against another experienced swordsman like Vader, that I would have found surprising.
@@VoldoronGaming I think that Vader started off expecting Obi-Wan to be weak like in the third episode on Mapuzo and to be reliant on Soresu. Then partway through the fight, it finally dawned on Vader that Obi-Wan was essentially back to full form and was more on the offensive than usual, so Vader switched from the cavalier one-handed grip he had also used with Reva to a two-handed grip on his saber.
i feel like him being master doesnt have anything to do with him winning the duel he was top 3 most powerful jedi in the council along with Yoda & Mace Windu, Anakain Skywalker ROTS or Darth Vader in obi wan were both more powerful than any of the Jedi masters on the council outside of those 3 & both ROTS Anakin & Vader were both more powerful than Obi Wan but Obi was the master of Anakin knew his vulnearabilities & was able to invoke emotions that make Vader or Anakin weak which is why he cudnt beat Obi Wan in his prime until a new hope when Obi Wan isnt in his prime & Vader lets go of his emotions so he can best any version of Obi Wan.
I noticed this immediately. Obi-wan's action rolls were a bit out of character for his normal form, and his hits on Vader's chest plate were exactly like Qui-Gon back-handing Maul on Naboo. It was a great tactical choice.
Two more important notes: 1. Obi-Wan used this same tactic against Count Dooku in Revenge of the Sith, first using Form III to lure Dooku into a false sense and quickly using Form !V as a sort of surprise attack. 2. Form IV is most effective by allowing the Force to flow though one's body to overcome one's own shortcomings(as with Master Yoda). The Force would actually aid you in your movements and your attacks so you can better attack your enemy. And in the beginning of this fight, we see Obi-Wan's connection to the Force still strained despite his heroic actions at Fortress Inquisitorius. It wasn't until he let go of his demons and remembered why he was truly fighting(for Leia and Luke) was he able to fully restore his connection to the Force and why he became the victor in the second half of the duel.
Actually actually he also changed to Form III when Dooku was waiting him to jump over a strike and suddenly Obi-Wan elegantly blocked it with minimal effort. That confused Dooku. He was trying to slice Kenobi in two in the middle of the jump he expected to happen.
@@yaddle92 I'll have to watch the fight again, but what Dooku expected makes sense. Dooku's Form II style is effective by going for his enemies legs, forcing them to jump, where he can easily strike them and cut them up before they even hit the ground.
No the plan to defeat count dooku was created by Anakin and this is in the books Anakin use shien and obi wan used form 1 and once after count dooku fell for it obi One slip back into form three and Anakin slip back into form five Djem So variant. This is exactly why I can't stand the Obi-Wan Kenobi series if this is what people need to understand Obi-Wan knows Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader. And because he is so familiar with his formal Padawan and despite what people think deep within Darth Vader and it can still lives but Obi one weak ass can't sense Anakin at all. That is how that is the reason why he's able to defeat I should say the second main reason why he's able to defeat Darth Vader
Kenobi putting Vader of all people on the defensive in the second half of the fight and then going for the suit with his saber's hilt was ingenious; I want to see more of this aggressiveness from the master of defense.
Actually going for the suit controls with the light saber blade would have been genius. Using the hilt was plot. ;) Nothing was stopping him frim making a cut using the same motion he did slam with instead. That's just lame movie fighting lol.
@@MrBottlecapBill The reason the hilt strike works is because most opponents wouldn't be expecting it. If it's good enough for Maul vs. Qui-Gon, why wouldn't it be for Obi-Wan vs. Vader?
@@MrBottlecapBill And Force users use the Force to sense the plasma blade. So that explains. If Obi-Wan was making his blade point away from Vader, he wouldn't have expected a strike with the hilt to come through to his chest plate. To me, that was great writing in sticking to the mechanics of The Force right there.
Kenobi later outsmarted Vader in the Death Star. Knowing he could no longer hold against Vader for much longer, yet distracting him enough and instilling caution if his hidden power to allow Vader's kids get away.
I fully believe that Obi-Wan would have won again. Because as long as there is a little bit of Anakin left in Vader, there is still that weakness. I'm not saying that either are weak, I'm suggesting that he couldn't reach his full power because of his torment. If he chose completely Vader her would have been very much more powerful, and if her never turned he would have been the most powerful Jedi.
You forgot. They knew Kenobi wasn't trying to escape. Thats why the stormtrooper's aim was so bad and why the ship was tracked. Every option was covered except for the 1 in infinity miracle that Vader's own child would not only be as prodigious as he was in the force but as a pilot as well.
This is why I love this universe. When they actually have good writers and producers making the show, they are able to use more than just dialog to tell the story. There's just as much storytelling and lore in the fight scenes as the ones with spoken dialog. These are very subtle details that only true Star Wars fans would know to include.
@@aftamath86 I love star wars, empire is my favourite film of all time but that doesn't change the fact that Disney is running it into the ground time and time again, they've made it clear that they don't like star wars and kenobi is proof of that
@@leonrussell9607 this show was much better made than either of the last two trilogies, to include the prequels not made by Disney. I'm no Disney fan boy but I give credit where credit is due and these TV shows have been well made thus far.
the depths of Disney stupidity* there was obviously no thought about any lightsaber forms, but fans will explain everything (I hope that this video is ironic)
@@TenInfi man didn’t even watch the video. Also, yeah it was on purpose. It’s not an accidental thing. Do you actually believe that Disney can’t do anything? Has relentlessly hating brought you to that point? They have people who choreograph these fights, and they very clearly show him switch. What did you want him to do, go, “I am now switching my fighting style to form IV?”
@@oXRaptorzXo xD! Fanboys be like: you didn't even watch the video, why don't you swallow our fanboy explanation of events using obscure things that nobody at series production knows or cares about! You're delusional. OFC they have choreographers at place, but they don't know about Shitesu or any lightsaber forms. Heck, even Lucas was like "well, let's do this thing just like that, it has to have a meaning, but we'll figure it out later". There was no grand scheme besides the main plot. So, yeah, nobody cares but you, fanyboys. Fight needed to look cool for a series, that's all.
Kenobi also moved the duel from the open plain, where Vader could use his reach advantage, into the rock canyon, where Vader was even hitting the cliff faces several times with his lightsaber. Also points to Vader's loss of control, because the best lightsaber duelist wouldn't be swinging wildly into a wall!
I don't know the fighting styles because I never really studied the Star Wars content. I just watched, but I did notice the change in Obi-Wan's aggression during the duel. Thanks for pointing this out! I'm learning so much from your videos!
If you notice in the fight , Obi-Wan used a style that Anakin used . The backwards lightsaber twirl was so epic to witness when Obi-Wan used it against his old padawan.
Obi Wan changed his tactics because he knew that Vader knew that he(Obi Wan) is a defensive specialist. If Obi Wan did the same thing he did on Mustafar, he would've lost to Vader because he would've expected exactly that, since this literally ruined Vader's live. Obi Wan defended himself with Soresu, switched to Ataru and later in the duel Obi Wan even used Niman's integration of force abilities into lightsaber combat when he bombarded Vader with rocks. Obi Wan once again demonstrated that experience, ingenuity and perseverance can bring even the mightiest to their knees.
The best moment for me might have been when Obi-Wan goes for Vader's suit panel. The whole series actually reminded me a lot of the Dark Knight Rises. There's a very similar story of a great hero of the past no longer being needed, languishing in isolation, his skills becoming rusted, but then being forced to come out of hiding for an important mission, only to find his skills greatly diminished and himself woefully unprepared to face the new villain that has emerged, getting absolutely demolished in his first fight with that villain, and then having to build his way back up, let go of his past failures and mental anguish, rediscover their reason to live and fight, and in one case metaphorically, in the other literally, climb out of their pit of despair in preparation for a final epic confrontation with the villain, where he not only uses his regained strength, but also superior tactics to directly attack the villain's main weakness, finally defeating him and restoring himself as the great hero he once was.
He always knew how to adapt to various situations. Seems like a lot of Jedi learned what they could and then their abilities leveled off and they stayed the same with no real growth. Kenobi was constantly evolving
@@jonsnow947 It's not just a question of hard work. Jedi in general never shy away from training. What makes Obi-Wan a great Jedi is that he doesn't rely solely on the Force or traditional techniques. He uses his brain. For many Jedi of the Clone Wars era and the generations prior, skill in the Force is the most important thing, and little thought is given to actually thinking and considering alternatives. It was one of the reasons the Jedi were so utterly blindsided by Order 66. There is no question in my mind that Obi-Wan Kenobi makes the best possible use of the skills he has better than any other Jedi, even more powerful ones.
Largely due to your past uploads I could actually tell Kenobi switched to a more aggressive style whilst first watching. ... LoL, ... but, didn't know what style he switched to until this one. - Thanks & sincerely appreciate your time & efforts 🙏👍😃. ... Takes it smooth & be well
Obi is genius! Form IV was his primary form, that Qui-Gon has taught him, changed to Soresu, which saved his life more than once, but He never unlearned his basics. Going more acrobatic and offensive is the prefect way to overcome a powerful but clumsy enemy, who is unable to hold up with acrobatics like that, because of his overall weight and artifical limbs. Also it is quite funny that he once again trolled an opponent and negated years of training he spent just to get trough Soresu defenses. He should have known! Obi Wan even implemented Ataru Moves back in the day shortly before he dismembered his former apprentice.
I don't think that is all: I think Kenobi probably realized that form 3 wasn't the best option against someone who can't move well but instead relies on their brute strength - Kenobi got a sample of Vader's fighting style in their first duel. A more acrobatic style seems like the most logical way to fight someone like Vader. This worked relatively well for Ahsoka also in Rebels.
@@xxEmmankunnArt Right. After the death of Qui Gon, Obi Wan switched over to Form III and used it all throughout the clone wars. Little Anakin probably never saw his master using form IV.
I thought something similar too. When Obi Wan was in top shape NOTHING could crack the shield of his Form 3, even Anakin's Djemo So... in fact it was the perfect counter, since it weathered all of Anakin's power strikes on Mustafar until he could capitalize on a mistake, as he did. When they meet back up again on the mining planet 10 years later, Obi Wan is older, much less in shape and in tune with his force powers, let alone his fighting forms. He tries to fall into Form 3 again, but this is an endurance Form, and he doesn't have that anymore... plus Vader's new style is EVEN more strength and power based than previously, using his cybernetics and the weight of his armor to deliver incredibly powerful blows. He hammers Obi Wan all over that mine colony. However, his armor means he is much less mobile than Anakin was. Combine this with Obi Wan's lack of precision now, Form 4 is the perfect attacking choice, as its all about mobility and improvising attacks. Whoever choreographed this is a genius, and clearly a big fan.
Thank you for the breakdown, very interesting. I'm too much of a casual pleb to recognize lightsaber forms, but I definitely noticed a shift during the second half of the duel when he started busting out those Anakin-style moves. I honestly thought he was tapping into the dark side a little bit (attachment, passion) as he was stuck in that pit, drawing power from his renewed purpose to protect the twins.
I really want to say thank you for all your positivity and information about Star Wars. Your channel is one of my favorite Star Wars TH-cam channels. I refuse to watch Star Wars Theory or Den of Nerds or Geeks and Gamers, Angry Joe and Ozzy Jedi because of their negativity with Star Wars and how they whine and complain about everything and they are now turning into anti-Star Wars channels. Keep up the great work and May the Force be with You! Thank you for being one of the positive Star Wars channels on TH-cam.
@@joshuawhitson135 Thanks man. I hate this notion from some that Star Wars fans should accept whatever Disney serves us up regardless of quality. If they are serving up below par content, they deserve to be criticised for it.
@@N22-g8l and again I agree I believe that George set a particular bar of expectations that should be easily met if you are a true Star wars fan if you're taking over the rights you know what I mean I'm not saying all of Disney's stuff with Star wars is crappy but it's not all good either and you hit it right on the head by stating that I believe that if they fall short with the fans that they should be told about that so next time they come out with something it would be better with more meaning
I noticed he was much more aggressive, but honestly I think he just realized that Soresu wasn't going to work against Vader because Vader would never tire because of his bodily enhancements. Soresu is meant to tire an opponent, but Vader is part robot.
Excellent video! You could definitely tell he switch styles. I even thought I saw a few hints of Form II… some of the one-handed grips reminded me of Count Dooku… especially when he was twirling it behind his back to switch hands.
the reverse grip obi wan used is shien and the heavy circular parrys followed by a attack is the djem so, kenobi has perfected the lightsaber style anakin and obi wan had in ep 3. not too agressive or overly passive, yet passionate and mindful.
@@lindavance5526Obi Wan is a master of Soresu, Ataru, and Djem So. So where did Anakin learn Djem So from??? From Kenobi because Kenobi teaches Anakin form V.
@@kendivedmakarig215 Kenobi was THE master of Soresu. He wasn't a "master" of Ataru or Djem So, although he was certainly proficient in those styles. This is not the primary point I have, though: the point is that Anakin and Kenobi have different styles of lightsaber combat; especially Anakin after his fall to the Sith.
Obi Wan tricking Vader into expecting the wrong fighting style would be very fitting because that was exactly what Obi Wan was doing against Maul in there final battle in the Rebels show. As a very strategic fighter, I can totally see that Obi Wan would do that on top of mentally preparing himself for that battle as we saw in the episode.
When I was competing in martial arts, I learned alternate forms. That way if my opponent studied me, they would be wrong. I could also switch styles mid fight and confuse them even more.
im not very educated about the forms but i realized the change in pace instantly and totally loved it. i knew a video like this would appear, thanks for the facts!
I never thought of it like this, i love this interpretation. I did however notice Obis change in combat and suddenly overwhelm vader. The main message i get from this is never give obiwan a second chance. Best. Jedi. Ever.
If Master Windu, Obi-Wan and Yoda went to arrest Sidious it would have been a wrap. As powerful as Sidious was I don’t think he could have taken all three of them in a dual at once.
Windu was 1 of the worse matchups for Palps since Windu could channel dark side energy... So the more Palps dipped into the dark side the stronger it made Mace... That was the explanation I heard a while back... Now add Yoda to the mix and yup, the fight was done... Palps Using more dark side to counter Yoda while simultaneously strengthening Mace??? Yea, Palps would be dead.
100% that trio would have overpowered one of most OP villains in media history. Kit Fisto was no average combatant, but he was a poor match for Sideous and the others were speed bumps.
I immediately recognized him switching to Qui Gon's ataru when he faced Maul in rebels as he shifted stances in the beginning of the dual.. Remember saying that's bad ass as he did that. Did not necessarily know he was using Ataru By the end ofHis 2nd duel with Vader but definitely definitely recognized a far more offensive fighting style. Obi Wan is the man
Tbf he actually was using Soresu against Maul. He kind of did the opposite he did with Vader. He showed Ataru to bait Maul into trying to use the same tactic he killed Qui Gon with only for it to fail as Obi Wan easily defended it and countered
Was actually great seeing Obi-Wan going full offense - shades of when he was a Padawan. Really cool seeing the defence master and negotiator turning into an unstoppable wave of offense, almost like the roles were reversed for the first time
@@kingandros4819 funnily enough, I'm pretty sure if they fought, Dooku would get steamrolled by Vader's strength, Force power, more refined use of the environment, and preexisting understanding of Dooku's fighting style
@@mercury2157 absolutely not. Dooku would outclass vader easily in dueling alone. Its well known that vaders prothesis had a synaptic delay. The time between the unconscious thought of moving and the actual movement were so far delayed, that vader could not use djem so properly. All dooku would have to do is engage vader in saber to saber combat and hit him with force lightning. Vader is incapacitated immediately. Fight over.
It totally make sense, because the only thing Vader/Anakin never tried himself against the battle form of his first master - Qui-Gon who wanted to train the boy. Obi-Wan did it perfectly. Thanks for breakdown, this was awesome.
Obi Wan switched lightsaber hands behind his back. Had he ever done this anywhere before? It seemed more like an Anakin move, did he do it to troll him?
I caught that when I watched it for the first time then I had to explain to my girlfriend but I meant by "he went southpaw". I think he did it purely because Anakin never really trained with him left-handed so it made Obi-Wan less predictable.
I think there should be some real consideration of Obi-Wan being three greatest duelist of all time. Grevious, Maul, Anikan, and Vader are just some of the names of notable wins. He might have not been as "powerful in the force" as other Jedi but he always got the W. That alone is impressive but also beat "The chosen one" twice. Grevious was a killing machine..lol, but seriously. Grevious was OP and got handled by Obi-Wan. (I know they previously fought so chill fan boys) There's a good argument to be made here for Obi-Wan being the best duelist of all time. If in any way this angers you. Good. You're anger bring me joy and only makes me stronger. Lol. ✌️
Uh dooku would seriously disagree with that one,so would Yoda and mace.he is definitely one of the best but not the best, palpatine would also have something to say on that matter as well.
I terms of his win to loss ration I think he ranks sorta low, we’ve seen him get beaten again and again, but what arguably makes him the best is his ability to adapt and overcome. Personal I think Count Dooku is the greatest duelist in canon. His form 2 was perfect for taking on opponents. He beat Obi Wan, then he beat Anakin, and then held yoda off after already seeming tired from his fight with our Dynamic Duo. I would have loved to see the Count in his younger days.
@@ericseitzler81 I know Dooku beat Obi-Wan in their duel so point their for you. Palpatine and Yoda never duled Obi-Wan to the death and that seems to be when Obi-Wan usually comes out on top. When his life is on the line he pretty regularly got the win.
@@trevor3194 a win in a duel in my opinion is who walked away at the end with their life. Obi-Wan survived order 66 and killed arguably some of the greatest duelist of all time. Leaving Vader for dead twice who handled Dooku when he was at Max strength. The same Vader who after showing Dooku his "look mom, I have no hands" trick. Got molly wopped by Kenobi.
I didn't catch that he swapped forms but it makes sense since Obi-Wan knows Anakin. In their first duel on Mustafar, Obi-wan has already fully perfected the Form for lightsaber combat but what also gave him the edge was that he knows Anakin's fighting style since they were like brothers. Strategically, it was brilliant to swap forms since Obi-wan probably went under the assumption that Vader had trained to fully counter Soresu. This was explained in the flashback when Obi-wan tells Anakin his need for victory blinds him. Its a lesson that has ultimately costed Anakin, now Vader, two duels.
Except this is not the same Anakin. Vader is hampered by his suit so Vader had to alter his combat style entirely. Mostly Anakin relies upon his lightsaber skill.. Post Mustafar vader relies more on force skill...still mostly light saber skill but coupled with more force use than pre-mustafar.
@@VoldoronGaming its true that Vader had to alter his Lightsaber form but his natural sense of aggression (his style of combat) never went down post-Mustafar.
It still doesn't make sense that Vader couldn't handle it. Being the grandmaster's preferred style, Ataru became one of the most popular forms for Jedi that knew what they were doing. He should have a decade worth of experience countering that form, yet gets overwhelmed by someone who just left retirement.
You mean What if Anakin and Obi-Wan went to Mandalor with Ahsoka? More or less the same question but Ahsoka was going in both cases, Anakin and Obi Wan would tag along
@@NikolakiH Rebels would very likely not even exist. Maul should know that he wouldn't be able to handle all three of them, and under the right circumstances (and assuming Anakin doesn't just murder him as revenge for Qui-Gon), they could probably use him to testify against the Sith
Amazing video man. I love how u actually break down the fight in a lore centered way. Man you j make it so interesting with how you say it. The words you choose. It doesn’t sound like a news report but like a story each time
It was really great to be able to figure these things out on our own, to have the little things change instead of just fight fight fight oh well someone lost. Obi-Wan has a visual shift in stance and demeanor when changing styles, and it was very clear in the show that he wasn’t fighting the was he usually did. It was a great show of intent behind their actions by the director.
I thought he was using form 4 and 5, specifically Anakin’s version of form 5 with his behind the back moves which allowed him to build more momentum just like Anakin did to Dooku. I think this is two pronged attack, one form 5 would work well against someone who is slower building speed and momentum as would form 4, but the psychological effect of seeing Anakin’s more versatile Clone Wars fighting style being employed against him would also screw with Vader. He can’t move like he used to, and he has to resent that, seeing that used against him probably fueled more uncertainty in him. Love your work, keep it up!
You conveniently skipped the part when Vader buried Obi-Wan even after the switch in forms. The moment he reconnects with the Living Force was the key to the victory not the change in fighting styles.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I just wanted to say, I definitely felt like Obi-Wan wasn't using Soresu in his fight against Vader, but it kinda felt to me at the time like it wasn't a choice made by design. Like they just choreographed the fight without doing their research and taking into account that Obi-Wan has a very defensive fighting style. That's how it appeared to me when I watched, but I'm glad there might actually be a genuine in lore explanation for what he was doing.
But upon watching the full video and rewatching the fight, Ican definitely see how this was a deliberate choice, you can see the point in the fight where Obi-Wan switches it up and puts Vader on the back foot.
Nah, it was a deliberate choice. You can see how Obi begins super deffensive and Vader overwhelms him so he has to change his strategy. Vader's weakness is that rage blinds him and lack of mobility so using Ataru as counter was the only option Obi had.
That's actually a cool bit of info, I'd thought the duel seemed much too easy and I'm not the most adept at picking up on styles like some but this makes a lot of sense actually as Qui Gon died before Anakin ever had a chance to experience his particular style
@@revenge8215 man that's why i haven't watched it my heart can only take so much star wars abuse 😂 vader losing to obi-wan would not happen he was at his most powerful and force sensitive during the era of the empire.
I noticed that he was more aggressive, with many counterblows and parries. But I didn't notice the change in forms. Thank u for pointing it out. U 🐐 that
No idea why there's so many channels breaking down episodes of such a dog water show. Just puts me to sleep even faster. Yall seriously think these directors care about what's Canon or what actually makes sense in the lore dude ?!! These shows are made to fill a quota , no more no less. There's no real passion put into them.
@@Archivist_of_Stupendous_Wave cause we're are all entitled to our opinions sadly. If I have to cope with all these people who apparently know nothing of starwars outside of the cinematic universe praising it , yall can deal with me telling you it's dookie water. Best thing I can say about it is , it's def a show made by Disney. You are all the reason well never get a good starwars movie. Yall are content with vader doing something cool for 10 seconds and sit through 8 hours of crap writing and terrible acting to get to it . At least the comics and video games sometimes get it spot on.
@@TheRagnarokmech I referring to commenting on this video specfically. The kenobi show as nothing to write home about lets be honest but we are at least trying to take a look at the parts that WERE cool. This fight was pretty cool so we can at least appreciate that right?
Because the show was good. Its star wars after all and if you are such a big fan as you like to say, you should know that pretty much no star wars movie has superb writing or acting.. We watch it for the universe, the stories behind all of it, the lore and because we like to "nerd" about it. Star wars allways had retcons and minor plotholes that were filled up later under lucas and much more "weirder stuff happening for the first time" just because they are cool. Yet somehow people are mad about kenobi series and ignore all the other shit that has happened over the years. Well at least you can sleep easier.
@@Archivist_of_Stupendous_Wave yea it was neat. Only part worth watching really. Just wish it didn't take 8 hours to get to. Life is busy and full of work and errands to waste on mediocre television.
In and of itself, his pattern of changing styles could arguably be a mental form of soresu. This is his defense: by keeping his opponents off balance, he remains relatively untouchable. A perfect defense.
I realized that Obi-Wan changed his form because he was more aggressive, but I thought he was using form 2 (Count Dooku), but the hand grip of form 4. When I originally saw it it looked like he was turning his defense into offense, but the breakdown made more sense that he would be using form 4.
I agree with most of your assessment, however Obi Wan used more than Ataru, he used anything and everything that would work. When he got out of the pit, his first strike was Shien Djem So, you can tell by the way he's holding the saber. He's got one hand "overhand" as the fulcrum and he's using his other hand as the lever, pulling the saber closer to Vader. I would assume to offset the physical strength of Vader's cybernetics. When that doesn't work, he immediately switched to Makashi. He went one handed (Switching hands) right before his first Force push. Obi Wan completely outclassed Vader in his knowledge of the saber forms. I agree with you though, that he DID use Qui-Gons Ataru for the most part. I think he "Shock and Awed" Vader through the entire fight. He used Vader's arrogance against Vader. As Okies call it "Old man tough".
This is beautiful. Showing who are are is not who you need to die being. Lessons from the past and those that are gone can and will save you. Goodbye dearth
Great video! Def noticed that he was more aggressive and he had switched from his usual fighting style, though not being well-versed enough in the specific styles I couldn't pin it down. Props.
I did notice that Obi-wan was more aggressive in his duel against Vader, but I had assumed that he used Anakin's form against him. To me that makes sense of the flashback duel from earlier. Darth Vader has to abandon his previous Anakin style due to his limitations being in his suit and instead utilized a steam roller method to end a duel quickly on account of his asthma. Obi-wan being able to use Anakin's personal style just went to show just who really was the master.
Indeed I did realize. I noticed something was beginning to be different with the saber twirl that led towards him pushing Vader into the rocks, and as you said from then on he was just more aggressive. Didn't notice he was using Quigons particular version however.
Soresu also relys on heavy practice. Thats the defensive posture if i remember well. Thats going to take the most time to perfect, you basically defend and let them make there own mistake or get tired, rather then trying to outright attack or bait mistake outright. Anakins style is more powerful slashes, and he tends to use his aggresiveness to force a mistake, but he also is more creative, anakin while having a extremely power oriented style is also really clever, and uses that to bait out mistakes, like he does to dooku. Obi-wans more of like straight up defending, and patiently waiting for an opening, but to do this you have to have insane stamina, insane reflexes, you basically have to be faster then the person attacking you in order for this to work out in ur favor.
Very well observed! It is clear that obi wan changed his fighting form during this duel something that idd only fans will notice but also credit to the producers who came up with this , to make obi wan change his fighting style for one single time and making the absolute difference in this duel
That man Obi-Wan is a master of the trolling arts. The man literally switched to form IV ataru just to frustrate Vader. No one does it better than Kenobi.
I honestly think this is what he was thinking. All Obi-Wan wanted to do was to delay Vader. So, he just tried everything he could to fraustrate him.
Fax
He planned it out. Simple stuff like him doing flips so Vader can use stamina to walk after him was a game changer
It was done to try and get Vader to be reminded of the days he was on the light side. Using his own tricks with the saber. To bring anakin out
I'm better
It also explains why when they meet in another nine years, Vader is more cautious and measured. He knows Obi Wan can flip on a moment's notice to be dangerously aggressive so he doesn't rush in
Exactly! Vader was probably thinking “is this old man gonna whip out form 5 now??”
I dont understand people saying old Ben Vs Vader is meaningless, or pointless, or "stupid" now after this show.
I see it as A distraction, and a way to be joined with the force, I think old ben was close to death anyway.
But yes I think Vader was cautious, of the master obi wan, but he hasn't felt him or heard of him in sometime and maybe thought he was dead.
Obi wan was very clever.. and once he sacrificed himself an joined the force.. I'm sure vader had a visit..
Obi wan found a slight height difference in the tiles and Vader with his robotic eyes saw the slightly inclined of 4%degree and knew it could loose it all this time
@@fowlplayzproductions "Wait, why do I feel my dark side being used against me?"
Plus he was guarding his life support, that was on his chest.. look at Vader's stance in a New Hope. Talk about having a Target on your chest lol
This is the coolest thing to me. When I saw this, I realized immediately that Obi-Wan changed up his style. Even being *the* master of soresu wouldn't be enough to stop the sheer power and cunning of Vader. We saw a bit of it earlier in the season, though Obi was much weaker, he tried to play it defensive and Vader steamrolled him. His only hope was to jump in and swap strikes to try and create an opening because he couldn't afford to wait for one. For most Jedi, this would be suicide, but not for Obi-Wan Kenobi. He had just enough skill, just enough power, just enough cunning, and just enough heart to pull through and topple the juggernaut of Darth Vader. Love this fight❣️
It is ultimately his acceptance that gave him the strength he needed. Accepting the loss of Anakin, Qui-gon, and most off all accepting himself and his mistakes so that he can finally start moving forward again. This duel shows that he has risen above his past, while Vader is still steeped in it. All Vader's feelings, his hate are him not letting go, and I think this fight shows that above anything else. The same thing is shown in that fight vs Maul, "Look what I have risen above." A line that is shown rather than said here and I absolutely love it. Couldn't have done it better personally.
I bet you write fan fiction and say it's Canon 🤣🤣🤣
@@MrDumdumkilla How did you know?!😱
@@Strongmount Touch grass
@@I666I I keep a patch growing in a pot on my desktop🤓
This was expected. Obi-Wan is an experienced swordsman. There's a reason he attained the rank of Master. He knows when to stay on the defense and when to go on the offense. Doing the latter would require him to switch from Soresu to another form like Ataru. If Obi-Wan had just stuck to Soresu for an entire fight against another experienced swordsman like Vader, that I would have found surprising.
If in this fight he stuck with Soresu Vader would have won.
He used Soresu on the Mustafar duel. But Vader got over confident.
@@VoldoronGaming I think that Vader started off expecting Obi-Wan to be weak like in the third episode on Mapuzo and to be reliant on Soresu. Then partway through the fight, it finally dawned on Vader that Obi-Wan was essentially back to full form and was more on the offensive than usual, so Vader switched from the cavalier one-handed grip he had also used with Reva to a two-handed grip on his saber.
That's why he was counter attacking aggressively which is the only way to defeat vader using atary
i feel like him being master doesnt have anything to do with him winning the duel he was top 3 most powerful jedi in the council along with Yoda & Mace Windu, Anakain Skywalker ROTS or Darth Vader in obi wan were both more powerful than any of the Jedi masters on the council outside of those 3 & both ROTS Anakin & Vader were both more powerful than Obi Wan but Obi was the master of Anakin knew his vulnearabilities & was able to invoke emotions that make Vader or Anakin weak which is why he cudnt beat Obi Wan in his prime until a new hope when Obi Wan isnt in his prime & Vader lets go of his emotions so he can best any version of Obi Wan.
I respect obi-wan more and more each day, this season really helped connect ep3 and ep4 together very well for me
I noticed this immediately. Obi-wan's action rolls were a bit out of character for his normal form, and his hits on Vader's chest plate were exactly like Qui-Gon back-handing Maul on Naboo. It was a great tactical choice.
Great call!!
Two more important notes:
1. Obi-Wan used this same tactic against Count Dooku in Revenge of the Sith, first using Form III to lure Dooku into a false sense and quickly using Form !V as a sort of surprise attack.
2. Form IV is most effective by allowing the Force to flow though one's body to overcome one's own shortcomings(as with Master Yoda). The Force would actually aid you in your movements and your attacks so you can better attack your enemy. And in the beginning of this fight, we see Obi-Wan's connection to the Force still strained despite his heroic actions at Fortress Inquisitorius. It wasn't until he let go of his demons and remembered why he was truly fighting(for Leia and Luke) was he able to fully restore his connection to the Force and why he became the victor in the second half of the duel.
Actually, Obi Wan switched from Form I Shii Cho to Form IV in Revenge of The Sith......And it backfired.
@@yrooxrksvi7142 Right, my mistake. I never caught that.
Actually actually he also changed to Form III when Dooku was waiting him to jump over a strike and suddenly Obi-Wan elegantly blocked it with minimal effort. That confused Dooku. He was trying to slice Kenobi in two in the middle of the jump he expected to happen.
@@yaddle92 I'll have to watch the fight again, but what Dooku expected makes sense. Dooku's Form II style is effective by going for his enemies legs, forcing them to jump, where he can easily strike them and cut them up before they even hit the ground.
No the plan to defeat count dooku was created by Anakin and this is in the books Anakin use shien and obi wan used form 1 and once after count dooku fell for it obi One slip back into form three and Anakin slip back into form five Djem So variant. This is exactly why I can't stand the Obi-Wan Kenobi series if this is what people need to understand Obi-Wan knows Anakin Skywalker / Darth Vader. And because he is so familiar with his formal Padawan and despite what people think deep within Darth Vader and it can still lives but Obi one weak ass can't sense Anakin at all. That is how that is the reason why he's able to defeat I should say the second main reason why he's able to defeat Darth Vader
Kenobi putting Vader of all people on the defensive in the second half of the fight and then going for the suit with his saber's hilt was ingenious; I want to see more of this aggressiveness from the master of defense.
Actually going for the suit controls with the light saber blade would have been genius. Using the hilt was plot. ;) Nothing was stopping him frim making a cut using the same motion he did slam with instead. That's just lame movie fighting lol.
@@MrBottlecapBill it wasn’t. His saber was flipped that way. He wouldn’t have been able to turn it around in time
@@oXRaptorzXo that's just copium, it's okay that it was for plot reasons no one cares as long as it was cool (which it was)
@@MrBottlecapBill The reason the hilt strike works is because most opponents wouldn't be expecting it. If it's good enough for Maul vs. Qui-Gon, why wouldn't it be for Obi-Wan vs. Vader?
@@MrBottlecapBill And Force users use the Force to sense the plasma blade. So that explains. If Obi-Wan was making his blade point away from Vader, he wouldn't have expected a strike with the hilt to come through to his chest plate. To me, that was great writing in sticking to the mechanics of The Force right there.
Kenobi later outsmarted Vader in the Death Star. Knowing he could no longer hold against Vader for much longer, yet distracting him enough and instilling caution if his hidden power to allow Vader's kids get away.
I fully believe that Obi-Wan would have won again. Because as long as there is a little bit of Anakin left in Vader, there is still that weakness. I'm not saying that either are weak, I'm suggesting that he couldn't reach his full power because of his torment. If he chose completely Vader her would have been very much more powerful, and if her never turned he would have been the most powerful Jedi.
You forgot. They knew Kenobi wasn't trying to escape. Thats why the stormtrooper's aim was so bad and why the ship was tracked.
Every option was covered except for the 1 in infinity miracle that Vader's own child would not only be as prodigious as he was in the force but as a pilot as well.
Anakin's children. Not Vader's.
@@91rumpnisse one and the same
Obi-Wan threw that fight. He could have smoked Vader. It was a bigger FU to the Darth to use the Force Ghost Cheat Code and enter God mode.
This is why I love this universe. When they actually have good writers and producers making the show, they are able to use more than just dialog to tell the story. There's just as much storytelling and lore in the fight scenes as the ones with spoken dialog. These are very subtle details that only true Star Wars fans would know to include.
Copium
@@leonrussell9607 if you're not a star wars fan just say it.
@@aftamath86 I love star wars, empire is my favourite film of all time but that doesn't change the fact that Disney is running it into the ground time and time again, they've made it clear that they don't like star wars and kenobi is proof of that
@@leonrussell9607 this show was much better made than either of the last two trilogies, to include the prequels not made by Disney. I'm no Disney fan boy but I give credit where credit is due and these TV shows have been well made thus far.
@@aftamath86 kenobi was just rip offs and references held together by bad writing and directing
I'm sure that I'm not only speaking for others & my self, but I appreciate the lengths you go to explain the depths of the Star Wars saga..
Indeed
yeah hes the best by a country mile
the depths of Disney stupidity*
there was obviously no thought about any lightsaber forms, but fans will explain everything (I hope that this video is ironic)
@@TenInfi man didn’t even watch the video. Also, yeah it was on purpose. It’s not an accidental thing. Do you actually believe that Disney can’t do anything? Has relentlessly hating brought you to that point? They have people who choreograph these fights, and they very clearly show him switch. What did you want him to do, go, “I am now switching my fighting style to form IV?”
@@oXRaptorzXo xD! Fanboys be like: you didn't even watch the video, why don't you swallow our fanboy explanation of events using obscure things that nobody at series production knows or cares about!
You're delusional. OFC they have choreographers at place, but they don't know about Shitesu or any lightsaber forms. Heck, even Lucas was like "well, let's do this thing just like that, it has to have a meaning, but we'll figure it out later". There was no grand scheme besides the main plot. So, yeah, nobody cares but you, fanyboys. Fight needed to look cool for a series, that's all.
Kenobi also moved the duel from the open plain, where Vader could use his reach advantage, into the rock canyon, where Vader was even hitting the cliff faces several times with his lightsaber. Also points to Vader's loss of control, because the best lightsaber duelist wouldn't be swinging wildly into a wall!
Vader and Luke both do that.
Vader can't move his arms good because of the suit
@@fdfgaming9076 false
Apparently vader’s suit has lag
@@xthax9718 Vader be fighting at 200 ping
I don't know the fighting styles because I never really studied the Star Wars content. I just watched, but I did notice the change in Obi-Wan's aggression during the duel. Thanks for pointing this out! I'm learning so much from your videos!
3:20 I love this tactic because Anakin and Obi Wan did it against Dooku in the revenge of the sith novelization and Obi Wan did it to Maul in rebels
If you notice in the fight , Obi-Wan used a style that Anakin used . The backwards lightsaber twirl was so epic to witness when Obi-Wan used it against his old padawan.
Obi Wan changed his tactics because he knew that Vader knew that he(Obi Wan) is a defensive specialist.
If Obi Wan did the same thing he did on Mustafar, he would've lost to Vader because he would've expected exactly that, since this literally ruined Vader's live.
Obi Wan defended himself with Soresu, switched to Ataru and later in the duel Obi Wan even used Niman's integration of force abilities into lightsaber combat when he bombarded Vader with rocks.
Obi Wan once again demonstrated that experience, ingenuity and perseverance can bring even the mightiest to their knees.
The best moment for me might have been when Obi-Wan goes for Vader's suit panel. The whole series actually reminded me a lot of the Dark Knight Rises. There's a very similar story of a great hero of the past no longer being needed, languishing in isolation, his skills becoming rusted, but then being forced to come out of hiding for an important mission, only to find his skills greatly diminished and himself woefully unprepared to face the new villain that has emerged, getting absolutely demolished in his first fight with that villain, and then having to build his way back up, let go of his past failures and mental anguish, rediscover their reason to live and fight, and in one case metaphorically, in the other literally, climb out of their pit of despair in preparation for a final epic confrontation with the villain, where he not only uses his regained strength, but also superior tactics to directly attack the villain's main weakness, finally defeating him and restoring himself as the great hero he once was.
He always knew how to adapt to various situations. Seems like a lot of Jedi learned what they could and then their abilities leveled off and they stayed the same with no real growth. Kenobi was constantly evolving
That's because Kenobi was not naturally gifted with any special ability or skill he was the example of a jedi working hard could reach the top.
@@jonsnow947 excellent point. It is different when you gotta develop your abilities instead of being born with them
@@jonsnow947 It's not just a question of hard work. Jedi in general never shy away from training. What makes Obi-Wan a great Jedi is that he doesn't rely solely on the Force or traditional techniques. He uses his brain. For many Jedi of the Clone Wars era and the generations prior, skill in the Force is the most important thing, and little thought is given to actually thinking and considering alternatives. It was one of the reasons the Jedi were so utterly blindsided by Order 66. There is no question in my mind that Obi-Wan Kenobi makes the best possible use of the skills he has better than any other Jedi, even more powerful ones.
Guys playing 4d chess
Largely due to your past uploads I could actually tell Kenobi switched to a more aggressive style whilst first watching. ... LoL, ... but, didn't know what style he switched to until this one.
- Thanks & sincerely appreciate your time & efforts 🙏👍😃. ... Takes it smooth & be well
Obi is genius! Form IV was his primary form, that Qui-Gon has taught him, changed to Soresu, which saved his life more than once, but He never unlearned his basics. Going more acrobatic and offensive is the prefect way to overcome a powerful but clumsy enemy, who is unable to hold up with acrobatics like that, because of his overall weight and artifical limbs. Also it is quite funny that he once again trolled an opponent and negated years of training he spent just to get trough Soresu defenses. He should have known! Obi Wan even implemented Ataru Moves back in the day shortly before he dismembered his former apprentice.
I don't think that is all: I think Kenobi probably realized that form 3 wasn't the best option against someone who can't move well but instead relies on their brute strength - Kenobi got a sample of Vader's fighting style in their first duel. A more acrobatic style seems like the most logical way to fight someone like Vader. This worked relatively well for Ahsoka also in Rebels.
also, Anakin knew Obi-Wan as Soresu user, he probably doesn't knew that he can also use Ataru
@@xxEmmankunnArt Right. After the death of Qui Gon, Obi Wan switched over to Form III and used it all throughout the clone wars. Little Anakin probably never saw his master using form IV.
I thought something similar too. When Obi Wan was in top shape NOTHING could crack the shield of his Form 3, even Anakin's Djemo So... in fact it was the perfect counter, since it weathered all of Anakin's power strikes on Mustafar until he could capitalize on a mistake, as he did.
When they meet back up again on the mining planet 10 years later, Obi Wan is older, much less in shape and in tune with his force powers, let alone his fighting forms. He tries to fall into Form 3 again, but this is an endurance Form, and he doesn't have that anymore... plus Vader's new style is EVEN more strength and power based than previously, using his cybernetics and the weight of his armor to deliver incredibly powerful blows. He hammers Obi Wan all over that mine colony. However, his armor means he is much less mobile than Anakin was. Combine this with Obi Wan's lack of precision now, Form 4 is the perfect attacking choice, as its all about mobility and improvising attacks.
Whoever choreographed this is a genius, and clearly a big fan.
Thank you for the breakdown, very interesting. I'm too much of a casual pleb to recognize lightsaber forms, but I definitely noticed a shift during the second half of the duel when he started busting out those Anakin-style moves. I honestly thought he was tapping into the dark side a little bit (attachment, passion) as he was stuck in that pit, drawing power from his renewed purpose to protect the twins.
I actually did notice that Master Kenobi switching lightsaber forms in the episode
Same! Literally from the very first roll, I noticed he switched from defense to offense
I thought I was going crazy because of the change, I screaming OBI WAN DOESNT FIGHT LIKE THAT at my monitor😭😭😭
I absolutely love the breakdowns from this channel. The time to explain everything and have it all make sense is 👍
I really want to say thank you for all your positivity and information about Star Wars. Your channel is one of my favorite Star Wars TH-cam channels. I refuse to watch Star Wars Theory or Den of Nerds or Geeks and Gamers, Angry Joe and Ozzy Jedi because of their negativity with Star Wars and how they whine and complain about everything and they are now turning into anti-Star Wars channels. Keep up the great work and May the Force be with You! Thank you for being one of the positive Star Wars channels on TH-cam.
In fairness those channels praise Star Wars when it's good. Disney deserve to be called out for their various mistakes with Star Wars.
@@N22-g8l I absolutely agree with what you're saying here buddy
@@joshuawhitson135 Thanks man. I hate this notion from some that Star Wars fans should accept whatever Disney serves us up regardless of quality. If they are serving up below par content, they deserve to be criticised for it.
@@N22-g8l and again I agree I believe that George set a particular bar of expectations that should be easily met if you are a true Star wars fan if you're taking over the rights you know what I mean I'm not saying all of Disney's stuff with Star wars is crappy but it's not all good either and you hit it right on the head by stating that I believe that if they fall short with the fans that they should be told about that so next time they come out with something it would be better with more meaning
Obi Wan starts with Soresu.
Midway Obi Wan switches to Ataru.
Qui Gon: “Well, took you long enough.”
I noticed he was much more aggressive, but honestly I think he just realized that Soresu wasn't going to work against Vader because Vader would never tire because of his bodily enhancements. Soresu is meant to tire an opponent, but Vader is part robot.
Don't you mean he's more machine than man?
Excellent video! You could definitely tell he switch styles. I even thought I saw a few hints of Form II… some of the one-handed grips reminded me of Count Dooku… especially when he was twirling it behind his back to switch hands.
the reverse grip obi wan used is shien and the heavy circular parrys followed by a attack is the djem so, kenobi has perfected the lightsaber style anakin and obi wan had in ep 3. not too agressive or overly passive, yet passionate and mindful.
Anakin and Obi-Wan had different lightsaber styles, ROTS included.
Yes
@@lindavance5526Obi Wan is a master of Soresu, Ataru, and Djem So. So where did Anakin learn Djem So from??? From Kenobi because Kenobi teaches Anakin form V.
@@lindavance5526Kenobi also use Djem So. Unlike Anakin who is just a master of Djem so, Kenobi is a master of Soresu, Ataru, and Djem So.
@@kendivedmakarig215 Kenobi was THE master of Soresu. He wasn't a "master" of Ataru or Djem So, although he was certainly proficient in those styles.
This is not the primary point I have, though: the point is that Anakin and Kenobi have different styles of lightsaber combat; especially Anakin after his fall to the Sith.
Yeah the second Obi-Wan rolled out of the way I thought "yeah that's not Soresu, that's Ataru"
Obi Wan tricking Vader into expecting the wrong fighting style would be very fitting because that was exactly what Obi Wan was doing against Maul in there final battle in the Rebels show. As a very strategic fighter, I can totally see that Obi Wan would do that on top of mentally preparing himself for that battle as we saw in the episode.
He baits Vader with Soresu here before going into Ataru and against Maul he baits him with Ataru only to use Soresu to easily counter Mauls attack
Im normally all about defense & counter , but i loved seeing Obi finally going at Vader with passionate determination.
I noticed Obi-Wan using force elements so I assumed he was using a Niman variant. I like the Stupendous Wave theory better though.
This is one of the best videos out there about this subject, hands down.
honestly, im pretty sure the show writers just forgot his style was *defensive*
Obi wan was always a step ahead of his apprentice. He understood that the mental part of things matters more than anything
When I was competing in martial arts, I learned alternate forms. That way if my opponent studied me, they would be wrong. I could also switch styles mid fight and confuse them even more.
im not very educated about the forms but i realized the change in pace instantly and totally loved it. i knew a video like this would appear, thanks for the facts!
From what I understand about the way Soresu works is you make the shape of a little bunny with your left hand to distract your adversary.
🤣
This was really well done content. Thank you.
I Liked the part where Obi Wan threw those big rocks at Vader with the Force : )
Blasters are so uncivilised but throwing rocks is just fine
it’s supposed to give Vader the idea to use the force to throw objects at his enemies, most seen in TESB where he throws objects at Luke
@@Knightfaller r/woooosh
I never thought of it like this, i love this interpretation. I did however notice Obis change in combat and suddenly overwhelm vader. The main message i get from this is never give obiwan a second chance. Best. Jedi. Ever.
If Master Windu, Obi-Wan and Yoda went to arrest Sidious it would have been a wrap. As powerful as Sidious was I don’t think he could have taken all three of them in a dual at once.
This is definitely true considering he couldn't even handle Windu alone. The addition of the other two seats the deal
@@justincastellanos5647 this is what I was going to say, Windu beat him by himself.
Windu was 1 of the worse matchups for Palps since Windu could channel dark side energy... So the more Palps dipped into the dark side the stronger it made Mace... That was the explanation I heard a while back... Now add Yoda to the mix and yup, the fight was done... Palps Using more dark side to counter Yoda while simultaneously strengthening Mace??? Yea, Palps would be dead.
100% that trio would have overpowered one of most OP villains in media history. Kit Fisto was no average combatant, but he was a poor match for Sideous and the others were speed bumps.
@@justincastellanos5647 He lost that fight with Windu on purpose.
I love the behind the back saber trolling
I immediately recognized him switching to Qui Gon's ataru when he faced Maul in rebels as he shifted stances in the beginning of the dual.. Remember saying that's bad ass as he did that. Did not necessarily know he was using Ataru By the end ofHis 2nd duel with Vader but definitely definitely recognized a far more offensive fighting style. Obi Wan is the man
Tbf he actually was using Soresu against Maul. He kind of did the opposite he did with Vader. He showed Ataru to bait Maul into trying to use the same tactic he killed Qui Gon with only for it to fail as Obi Wan easily defended it and countered
Was actually great seeing Obi-Wan going full offense - shades of when he was a Padawan. Really cool seeing the defence master and negotiator turning into an unstoppable wave of offense, almost like the roles were reversed for the first time
Dooku would probably appreciate Vader’s single-hand lightsaber combat form
Lol dooku would see it as clumsy. Heavy handed. Unrefined and a mockery of form 2.
He would see vader himself as an abomination he hates cybernetics
@@kingandros4819 funnily enough, I'm pretty sure if they fought, Dooku would get steamrolled by Vader's strength, Force power, more refined use of the environment, and preexisting understanding of Dooku's fighting style
@@mercury2157 that’s probably true
@@mercury2157 absolutely not. Dooku would outclass vader easily in dueling alone. Its well known that vaders prothesis had a synaptic delay. The time between the unconscious thought of moving and the actual movement were so far delayed, that vader could not use djem so properly. All dooku would have to do is engage vader in saber to saber combat and hit him with force lightning. Vader is incapacitated immediately. Fight over.
It totally make sense, because the only thing Vader/Anakin never tried himself against the battle form of his first master - Qui-Gon who wanted to train the boy. Obi-Wan did it perfectly. Thanks for breakdown, this was awesome.
Obi Wan switched lightsaber hands behind his back. Had he ever done this anywhere before? It seemed more like an Anakin move, did he do it to troll him?
I caught that when I watched it for the first time then I had to explain to my girlfriend but I meant by "he went southpaw". I think he did it purely because Anakin never really trained with him left-handed so it made Obi-Wan less predictable.
That is an Ataru defensive move.
Very detailed explanation! I don't think anyone else in YT has explained these as detailed as you did
I think there should be some real consideration of Obi-Wan being three greatest duelist of all time. Grevious, Maul, Anikan, and Vader are just some of the names of notable wins. He might have not been as "powerful in the force" as other Jedi but he always got the W. That alone is impressive but also beat "The chosen one" twice. Grevious was a killing machine..lol, but seriously. Grevious was OP and got handled by Obi-Wan. (I know they previously fought so chill fan boys) There's a good argument to be made here for Obi-Wan being the best duelist of all time. If in any way this angers you. Good. You're anger bring me joy and only makes me stronger. Lol. ✌️
Uh dooku would seriously disagree with that one,so would Yoda and mace.he is definitely one of the best but not the best, palpatine would also have something to say on that matter as well.
I terms of his win to loss ration I think he ranks sorta low, we’ve seen him get beaten again and again, but what arguably makes him the best is his ability to adapt and overcome. Personal I think Count Dooku is the greatest duelist in canon. His form 2 was perfect for taking on opponents. He beat Obi Wan, then he beat Anakin, and then held yoda off after already seeming tired from his fight with our Dynamic Duo. I would have loved to see the Count in his younger days.
@@trevor3194 I heard they are gonna do a young qui Gon jinn and his master dooku show.
@@ericseitzler81 I know Dooku beat Obi-Wan in their duel so point their for you. Palpatine and Yoda never duled Obi-Wan to the death and that seems to be when Obi-Wan usually comes out on top. When his life is on the line he pretty regularly got the win.
@@trevor3194 a win in a duel in my opinion is who walked away at the end with their life. Obi-Wan survived order 66 and killed arguably some of the greatest duelist of all time. Leaving Vader for dead twice who handled Dooku when he was at Max strength. The same Vader who after showing Dooku his "look mom, I have no hands" trick. Got molly wopped by Kenobi.
I had a feeling Obi-wan changed forms but didn't know which one thank you for the information.
I didn't catch that he swapped forms but it makes sense since Obi-Wan knows Anakin. In their first duel on Mustafar, Obi-wan has already fully perfected the Form for lightsaber combat but what also gave him the edge was that he knows Anakin's fighting style since they were like brothers. Strategically, it was brilliant to swap forms since Obi-wan probably went under the assumption that Vader had trained to fully counter Soresu. This was explained in the flashback when Obi-wan tells Anakin his need for victory blinds him. Its a lesson that has ultimately costed Anakin, now Vader, two duels.
Except this is not the same Anakin. Vader is hampered by his suit so Vader had to alter his combat style entirely. Mostly Anakin relies upon his lightsaber skill.. Post Mustafar vader relies more on force skill...still mostly light saber skill but coupled with more force use than pre-mustafar.
@@VoldoronGaming its true that Vader had to alter his Lightsaber form but his natural sense of aggression (his style of combat) never went down post-Mustafar.
It still doesn't make sense that Vader couldn't handle it. Being the grandmaster's preferred style, Ataru became one of the most popular forms for Jedi that knew what they were doing. He should have a decade worth of experience countering that form, yet gets overwhelmed by someone who just left retirement.
Thank you so much! I was wondering if I was the only one who actually noticed the way he utilized the lightsaber combat forms!
What if Ashoka went to Mandalore with Obi-Wan and Anakin?
Then maul probably wouldn't have shown up again in Rebels
You mean What if Anakin and Obi-Wan went to Mandalor with Ahsoka?
More or less the same question but Ahsoka was going in both cases, Anakin and Obi Wan would tag along
@@NikolakiH Rebels would very likely not even exist. Maul should know that he wouldn't be able to handle all three of them, and under the right circumstances (and assuming Anakin doesn't just murder him as revenge for Qui-Gon), they could probably use him to testify against the Sith
Amazing video man. I love how u actually break down the fight in a lore centered way. Man you j make it so interesting with how you say it. The words you choose. It doesn’t sound like a news report but like a story each time
It was really great to be able to figure these things out on our own, to have the little things change instead of just fight fight fight oh well someone lost. Obi-Wan has a visual shift in stance and demeanor when changing styles, and it was very clear in the show that he wasn’t fighting the was he usually did. It was a great show of intent behind their actions by the director.
I thought he was using form 4 and 5, specifically Anakin’s version of form 5 with his behind the back moves which allowed him to build more momentum just like Anakin did to Dooku.
I think this is two pronged attack, one form 5 would work well against someone who is slower building speed and momentum as would form 4, but the psychological effect of seeing Anakin’s more versatile Clone Wars fighting style being employed against him would also screw with Vader.
He can’t move like he used to, and he has to resent that, seeing that used against him probably fueled more uncertainty in him.
Love your work, keep it up!
You conveniently skipped the part when Vader buried Obi-Wan even after the switch in forms. The moment he reconnects with the Living Force was the key to the victory not the change in fighting styles.
He was still doing exceptionally well against Vader.
Pedophilia
The amount of mirroring this duel has with the final kenobi maul duel is just awesome.
Haven't watched the video yet, but I just wanted to say, I definitely felt like Obi-Wan wasn't using Soresu in his fight against Vader, but it kinda felt to me at the time like it wasn't a choice made by design. Like they just choreographed the fight without doing their research and taking into account that Obi-Wan has a very defensive fighting style. That's how it appeared to me when I watched, but I'm glad there might actually be a genuine in lore explanation for what he was doing.
But upon watching the full video and rewatching the fight, Ican definitely see how this was a deliberate choice, you can see the point in the fight where Obi-Wan switches it up and puts Vader on the back foot.
Nah, it was a deliberate choice. You can see how Obi begins super deffensive and Vader overwhelms him so he has to change his strategy. Vader's weakness is that rage blinds him and lack of mobility so using Ataru as counter was the only option Obi had.
Will forever love that quote, "He is not just a master of Soresu, he is THEE master of Soresu." 😊
Get help. You're no match for him, he's a Sith lord.
Dark is always defeated by the light. Always.
"We're *not* doing 'Get Help'..."
You're all putting more thought into this than the creators of the Obi Wan show :D :D
That's actually a cool bit of info, I'd thought the duel seemed much too easy and I'm not the most adept at picking up on styles like some but this makes a lot of sense actually as Qui Gon died before Anakin ever had a chance to experience his particular style
i did! i saw the transition and I was in complete awe!. Thanks for the breakdown!
Because the producers forgot star wars had light saber forms that's why 😂
Don’t get me started on the bad writing bro, Vader shouldn’t have lost
this is literally the reason.
@@kjmanoni yup
@@revenge8215 man that's why i haven't watched it my heart can only take so much star wars abuse 😂 vader losing to obi-wan would not happen he was at his most powerful and force sensitive during the era of the empire.
@@currythegoatofmankindthepa5156 man it was bad, bro don’t tune in
I noticed that he was more aggressive, with many counterblows and parries. But I didn't notice the change in forms. Thank u for pointing it out. U 🐐 that
No idea why there's so many channels breaking down episodes of such a dog water show. Just puts me to sleep even faster. Yall seriously think these directors care about what's Canon or what actually makes sense in the lore dude ?!! These shows are made to fill a quota , no more no less. There's no real passion put into them.
Then why watch or comment :)
@@Archivist_of_Stupendous_Wave cause we're are all entitled to our opinions sadly. If I have to cope with all these people who apparently know nothing of starwars outside of the cinematic universe praising it , yall can deal with me telling you it's dookie water. Best thing I can say about it is , it's def a show made by Disney. You are all the reason well never get a good starwars movie. Yall are content with vader doing something cool for 10 seconds and sit through 8 hours of crap writing and terrible acting to get to it . At least the comics and video games sometimes get it spot on.
@@TheRagnarokmech I referring to commenting on this video specfically. The kenobi show as nothing to write home about lets be honest but we are at least trying to take a look at the parts that WERE cool. This fight was pretty cool so we can at least appreciate that right?
Because the show was good. Its star wars after all and if you are such a big fan as you like to say, you should know that pretty much no star wars movie has superb writing or acting.. We watch it for the universe, the stories behind all of it, the lore and because we like to "nerd" about it.
Star wars allways had retcons and minor plotholes that were filled up later under lucas and much more "weirder stuff happening for the first time" just because they are cool. Yet somehow people are mad about kenobi series and ignore all the other shit that has happened over the years.
Well at least you can sleep easier.
@@Archivist_of_Stupendous_Wave yea it was neat. Only part worth watching really. Just wish it didn't take 8 hours to get to. Life is busy and full of work and errands to waste on mediocre television.
Your comments and observations in this video are excellent. I think this may be one of your best videos. I loved it.
In and of itself, his pattern of changing styles could arguably be a mental form of soresu. This is his defense: by keeping his opponents off balance, he remains relatively untouchable. A perfect defense.
His surprise switch to two-handed Ataru literally embodies his famous 2 words:
Hello there.
I know it's Ataru he starts in Soresu then switches to Ataru because he has experience in Form IV as well
Vader sounded beaten from the very beginning, "are you here to destroy me, Obi Wan?"
thanks, after watch the final episode i was expecting this video about the switch of the forms. Good Video!
I realized that Obi-Wan changed his form because he was more aggressive, but I thought he was using form 2 (Count Dooku), but the hand grip of form 4. When I originally saw it it looked like he was turning his defense into offense, but the breakdown made more sense that he would be using form 4.
Oh man the subtle qui gonn connection is genius
I agree with most of your assessment, however Obi Wan used more than Ataru, he used anything and everything that would work. When he got out of the pit, his first strike was Shien Djem So, you can tell by the way he's holding the saber. He's got one hand "overhand" as the fulcrum and he's using his other hand as the lever, pulling the saber closer to Vader. I would assume to offset the physical strength of Vader's cybernetics. When that doesn't work, he immediately switched to Makashi. He went one handed (Switching hands) right before his first Force push. Obi Wan completely outclassed Vader in his knowledge of the saber forms. I agree with you though, that he DID use Qui-Gons Ataru for the most part. I think he "Shock and Awed" Vader through the entire fight. He used Vader's arrogance against Vader. As Okies call it "Old man tough".
I think I also saw him use Makashi at one point
Changing up from soresu, to whatever style he wants, on the counter attack was smart.
Thanks for this. It's always revelatory how much thought actually goes into these lightsaber duels.
i was impressed they really displayed this in this episode. great video
This is beautiful. Showing who are are is not who you need to die being. Lessons from the past and those that are gone can and will save you.
Goodbye dearth
This breakdown makes a boring fight a really awesome one, nicely done
Great video! Def noticed that he was more aggressive and he had switched from his usual fighting style, though not being well-versed enough in the specific styles I couldn't pin it down. Props.
Definitely saw it when I first saw the episode and have been looking at the different light saber styles used.
I did notice that Obi-wan was more aggressive in his duel against Vader, but I had assumed that he used Anakin's form against him. To me that makes sense of the flashback duel from earlier. Darth Vader has to abandon his previous Anakin style due to his limitations being in his suit and instead utilized a steam roller method to end a duel quickly on account of his asthma. Obi-wan being able to use Anakin's personal style just went to show just who really was the master.
Guess this explain Vader using both hand in a defensive matter in anh after being defeated TWICE
He was scared af
Indeed I did realize. I noticed something was beginning to be different with the saber twirl that led towards him pushing Vader into the rocks, and as you said from then on he was just more aggressive. Didn't notice he was using Quigons particular version however.
Soresu also relys on heavy practice. Thats the defensive posture if i remember well. Thats going to take the most time to perfect, you basically defend and let them make there own mistake or get tired, rather then trying to outright attack or bait mistake outright. Anakins style is more powerful slashes, and he tends to use his aggresiveness to force a mistake, but he also is more creative, anakin while having a extremely power oriented style is also really clever, and uses that to bait out mistakes, like he does to dooku. Obi-wans more of like straight up defending, and patiently waiting for an opening, but to do this you have to have insane stamina, insane reflexes, you basically have to be faster then the person attacking you in order for this to work out in ur favor.
I just loved that Obi-Wan always “Tony Stark” his life always learning from his mistakes.
I figured the exact same thing happened. The leaping strike was the indication for me
I don’t think the writers gave their stances too much thought
I don't think the writers gave anything too much thought...
Such a great video, it's the little details that make Star Wars so great!
Yes I picked up on the change of style, but I wasn't sure which style. Thank you for this beautiful explication, makes perfect sense.
It was very obvious that they had Obi-wan on the offensive, so was wondering why they did that. This makes sense, cool video
Very well observed! It is clear that obi wan changed his fighting form during this duel something that idd only fans will notice but also credit to the producers who came up with this , to make obi wan change his fighting style for one single time and making the absolute difference in this duel
Really need another season with Obi Wan
I did catch that he changed how he was fighting, thanks for the explanation!
I noticed he was more aggressive but I didn’t realise he was using Ataru. Great observation!