I understand that a lot of players don't care about the MMO aspects and are happy enjoying the single player story content. The video makes it clear why the game fails as an MMO because of conflicting design directions, it also fails as an RPG for the same reasons. MMO design goals conflict with single player RPG design goals. When they started focusing on their strengths, story-based single player content with KOTFE and KOTET, not only does that make it a worse MMO, it's also still a bad RPG because it's being delivered through an MMORPG. The combat system is shallow and based on pressing numbers in certain orders. All the gameplay design is basically WoW. Because it's a F2P MMO, everything is designed with monetization in mind. One of the first motivations to spend on the game is to buy better speeders. All the planets are designed with long walks and lots of backtracking. Most large buildings won't let you enter straight through the door - you have to walk around the huge wall to get to the "real" inside - just to add to the frustration of not having the fastest speeder. Possibly due to open-world game asset loading as well, but still. (Not to mention they murdered Revan's character) I still enjoyed the game and got through some main stories, DLC, and came back later for KOTFE. But it was always a bittersweet experience.
Single player here who doesn't bother with OPs or group content. I do only care about the single player experience, but even I am disappointed. I came to this game via Mass Effect, and even that game had a lot more interesting story content than the predictable, recycled and watered down content that existed since Rise of the Hutt Cartel ended all continuations of the much more engaging class story content. Kotxx was a chore to go through because you're practically playing the same story regardless of what class you play. Player choices are a joke in this game ever since post-beta when they removed the ability to kill your companions. So yeah, this game isn't worth much either for its single player experience. There are far better single players out there like Detroit: Become Human, where your decisions have actual consequences with its countless endings.
I fully agree with the sentiment that there are two conflicting design choices that simply do not work together very well. HOWEVER, I always thought the monetisation in this game was really fair, especially from a singleplayer standpoint. You can drop a couple of bucks early on for some quality of life features and then you can play the story for hundreds of hours. There is no need for having the best of the best in singleplayer. There are some guides that tell you how to best invest your real life money but if you generally enjoy the game I don't think that paying around 15€ for all that content is too much to ask. I've certainly seen way, WAY worse in other games.
@FaldrinGW2 I do disagree that being F2P has any real gameplay drawsides. You get a free Legacy bank to put lots of stuff in, you get 6 rows of inventory slots for free if you use various things logically, and you can get a speeder relatively easy. The only drawback really is the fact you can’t access all of the story, which is a shame.
I don't understand this comment at all. The game wasn't launched as a F2P MMO. Speeders/backtracking/size of buildings were there from the beginning of the game weren't they? Did something change in regard to those things 1 year into the game?
If you do side quests (which are pretty interesting) as well as exploration quests (other kind of side quests) you dont have to grind. I was doing it (while skipping the side quests except story arcs on some planets because the planet was boring (like Belsavis)) and now I have lv.62 Jedi Guardian! Also planets have level limit so on the current planet I dont have lv.63 but lv.48 (or something like that)
@@acername9012 been playing for 4 days only been doing class and the odd main story mission already 35 lol and im free to play as well so dont get as much xp. Loving the game/story but one question each class has a slightly different story line right? But all tie in together....i just dont wana go through the same class missions when i make a new character lol....kinda Why games like WoW have fuck all for replayability or its just a god damn mind numbing grind to lvl alts
5 years later and still strong player numbers because even after a decade, people still appreciate the stories and the feeling of being immersed in the Star Wars world that, whatever this games flaws, still solidly achieves. Maybe if a day finally comes where a good and true KOTOR successor finally emerges, but until that day, this game will thrive off the people looking for a new KOTOR adventure
They literally just moved the game to another company and you still have the audacity to post this nonsense. The only thing that's thriving is the old content the game launched with
I recently logged in as a preferred to see how it works after the 64bit upgrade and move to the cloud. The most populated server after all the server mergers had a fleet with only 3-4 instances. Most of these people are just nerds trying to ERP. pretty sad. In 3.0, harbinger would sometimes have up to 9 instances on fleet. And this was before the merges. I tried queuing for some mid level pvp and didn't even get one pop. Game is dead, and from what I read about broadsword, is more than likely going into maintenance mode.
@@asdfz2140 Have you actually played the game? It's dead bruh. If not dead it's being kept on life support by a few whales who keep buying trash from the cartel market so they can sell it for erp. you call that an alive and thriving game?
I feel like a lot of people missed the point and argument of the video. SWTOR is a perfectly fine game. Hell, it's still kicking and quite enjoyable. But it failed as an MMO entirely. It's more of a... single-player game with social element to it, at this point. A perfectly serviceable game, but an MMO it is not.
A pity, but its singleplayer merits make it an excellent game in its own right - the current community seems to largely prefer this, and the MMO niche in it also adds on the extra spice needed. Also Vivec, what are you doing here?
Except it didn't? Look at the community and guild base. Roleplay discord servers with thousands active players. Yes maybe it doesn't have ESports scene but not everyone needs it
I disagree. Instant queues, populated cities, caped zones of all levels. It seems heavily populated to me which in turn means it is living. I always run with people on there it is very much so an MMO. Unless the thousands of people I interact with are all bots. Lol.
Very much agree. I played it with a single player focus and did groups when I had to. I coughed up the money for the premium account and got the DLC. I was very attached to my Sith tank.
That's for the best. the community is bad, the design was horribly flawed from day 1, they built the game on an engine which was terrible even for the time.. trying to make it a decent challenging MMO is a huge mistake. Plus MMO does not mean you are forced to team. not at all in any way shape or form. the best MMOs generally reward grouping more but you can solo most content. this is just good design, bad design is constantly forced grouping, unfair mechanics, knockback spam on every enemy, loss of control mechanics passed off as challenge and so on.
It takes too long. The story is segmented by hours of walking, mashing keys and waiting for cooldowns. Just watch the edited movies on TH-cam. SWTOR isn't worth the hundreds of hours it will take you to beat even one of the storylines.
hundreds of hours, no way! Only if you take your time with every single story and so on, but even then it won't take you hundreds for only one story-line (btw, what cool-downs: you can port to your ship any time you want and the quick-travel has a 6min cool-down which can easily be brought to 4 or even 2 minutes) Then again: playing a game is different than watching a movie, that's why people play RPGs instead of watching a movie. I don't want a KOTOR movie, the experience between playing and watching is totally different. As for it being "worth it", well that's for everyone to decide for him/herself.
Hayden Travis -- when was the last time you played it? I played it in beta and early in the life of the game, didn't like it. Returned recently after the 5.0 updates and quality of life changes, since then they've made more changes and the server merges have made it into a very fun game.
Also shows the fact there are still comments on this 3 year video shows the fanbase of this game is still dedicated and not going anywhere soon. This guys an idiot.
Watching your whole video made me actually nostalgic for SWTOR... I download, resubed and jumped in to find the starting area full of people also starting new characters. But as you suggest i think will do this playthrough more in the mindset of a single player RPG, rather than as an MMO at all. You have definitely given me a new perspective. Thanks!
Same tho. Watching this video made me really really nostalgic. I might pick up a subscription for this game for the first time and try to play it again
And i think swtor is less good than Kotor. They just shited Revan. He already made his Redemption in kotor, and then they are doing same crap. Just he fell to the dark side? Again? C'mon. In kotor it was beautiful story with such a good endings, just Revan is a jedi who now lives happy. I would be nice to end on that note, on that ending, but I think its not in Star Wars style to keep good endings good. I think Swtor its sequels to Kotor, just like in movies...
@@letrollproductions3562 evil ending in KOTOR was stupid though. With no sense, you randomly decide to go full TPK on your companions and stuff, imagine if Renegade Shepard literally shot Liara, Tali and Garrus for no rhyme or reason... Also giving Revan, who was more mysterious and unusual than Vader, a designated face from the same space-Jesus clone factory that produced Obi-Wan, Kyle Katarn, Carth Onasi and others wasn't a good move. Saying as someone who didn't play TOR because it looked like a joke with somehow worse than KOTOR, cartoony-looking graphics.
I remember seeing one of the trailers nearly a decade ago without context and thought it was the greatest thing ever. I then completely forgot about it and only played kotor 1 and 2 two weeks ago.
The high quality animations were and are some of the best things to be added to Star Wars, ever. They are so damn fantastic, telling short tales in an epic and heartfelt way -- with no words. I watch them several times a year.
I'm infuriated that Disney and EA now hold the Star Wars franchise, because with them at the helm, the expanded universe is dead, KOTOR 3 will never be made despite how well it would do, and the Old Republic era will never be touched again, despite being by far the richest period in Star Wars history.
The Star Wars we knew and loved is dead, and I doubt it'll be coming back anytime soon as long as Disney holds the rights to the franchise and EA makes the games.
First of all, the old Republic is a good era, but not the richest. Disney will go back to the Old Republic Era, and start their own version of events, which will probably roughly mirror what there is now. The EU is dead, but Disney have started their own canon. Plus, Disney aren't stupid, they know there is a big want amongst fans for the EU to be continued as it was. As soon as their movies start to slow down they will go back to that. Disney aren't going to use all their cards at once. It may come in a few months, years or decades, but the EU is coming back.
The Old Republic era is really fucking good... but the best Star Wars era occurred at the very beginning... When people first started to discover the force and learn about it... Everyone had long-lost unique abilities based on their passion and interest in life... it explained the emergence of the lightsaber... it explained what sparked conflict between the Sith and the Jedi. HINT... it's not what you think. In fact, the entire Stars Universe is a lie. Unfortunately, the victors write the history and it's sad that everyone believes the lies and propaganda of the Jedi. There are some bits & pieces of historical evidence & questions that clearly contradict the story of the Jedi... but the sheeple continue to believe them without question. Eventho the Jedi have fabricated the history, they cannot hide the truth from those of commune with the force.
yeah it was never a MMO it's a bioware with Mulitplayer. Same boat as you started playing it again and going threw the 2 new expasnions and having a blast.
Yeah, I remember mocking this game back when playing Beta...But when I returned to it last year...I had a blast playing it like a SIngle Player Bioware game. Hell, I found it more fun than most of their previous titles.
If this game was marketed as a co-op story bases star wars game it would have hit highs I could not even think of. Thats how good the co-op and story in this game can be. Untel you feel mmo side quests that it is littered with. I knew what it wanted to be but did not know how to do it.
Robo I’ve been thinking about building a pc that can play this. I miss the good Star Wars game we “used” to get on Console. I love this game had a lvl 40 Jedi I believe had to stop playing cause the laptop I had just couldn’t run it properly.
@@jensaversjo316 - Exactly I returned about six months ago and played the "Emperor's Wrath" story right through from beginning to about halfway through the new expansions. The end of the Sith arc was epic.
I’m sorry for MMO enthusiasts not getting what they wanted from the game, but I love SWTOR primarily for its story. It’s the only MMO I have ever played or had any interest in. I sometimes think it would have been better as a single player experience simply because one day it will be shut down and then all of these great quests and stories will be inaccessible forever after that. But I can’t change the past so instead I just enjoy the time I do have with the game.
Console port would be difficult, swtor's biggest strength over other mmos is the class design and the synergy of many different skills. Its much better than wow or eso in that regard any why it's my favorite mmo despite its flaws. Controllers just don't have enough buttons to capture the complexity of ability synergy in swtor.
The stories are good, but I really liked when my friend could come along with my stories missions and vice versa. The later store missions don't allow this and it felt like we were just both playing separate games while describing to each other what happened over discord. Now it's like a Massively Single-player Online Role Playing Game.
One more here, to me its best played as a single player game due to most guilds in RP and PVP modes only welcomes proplayers and someone like me who is new is mostly unwelcomed from my experience xD
The stories in this game are incredibly good in my opinion. All 8 classes, (maybe not consular) have really interesting and unique stories that make the game worth playing for any Star Wars fan, at least for a few months.
I honestly didn't like all the class stories, like the sith inquisitor sucks big time, but some are really good for role-play and the main side-missions sometimes really rock if done with the proper class: like consular on Voss
Depends what you want: if you want an action-packed story-line that involves a lot of fighting it's not the story for you, but since most swtor stories are like that I found consular to be a very good change of pace. Then again, the consular is exactly what a jedi story should be: a healer, a diplomat, a leader and somebody constantly in search of knowledge. I also appreciated that there were plenty of opportunities to complete missions without fighting, which seems to be the only way for most of the other classes.
It's all subjective. I just found it be a bit long winded personally. Too much running back and forth. I didn't hate it, by any means. I just found others more interesting. I got bored with the Merc, too.
Quiet a few of their storylines too were great. I truly believe the biggest contribution of this game is that it fleshed out other characters not just Light Side Jedi Knight.
The Hope trailer in particular had incredible action. I'm a simple man Disney, all I want is a movie with burly armoured troopers spraying minigun fire at droids and judo dumping bitch ass Sith on the floor.
Man, I LOVED this game and it helped get me through a very tough time. I always wished I could get a friend or someone I knew to play it with me, but oh well, that time has passed. I hope another Star Wars MMO attempt will be made in the near future.
Game's been slowly bleeding out since launch, never getting quite enough first aid in the form of end-game group content. That said, it's still a pretty solid single-player game, and for people who have never played it can still offer a lot. Even now I occasionally return to the game to play through the vanilla game content to refresh my memory on a class story and/or planet stories. Since that stuff is all free, I haven't given money to the game in a long time. EDIT: Also, solid taste in class stories, nerdSlayer. Agent and Warrior are my top two as well.
My thoughts exactly. I remember when the game launched... I was so hyped to play all over it, it took me well a month to get my first level 50, the game was hard, it really was. I remember struggling with boss fights, trying to get a group to play Heroics, flashpoints all to get gear and keep proressing.. I sticked around the game up until KOTET. Through all those years I saw the game change, the first expansions were pretty solid, endgame was good up until 3.0. Personally I loved the endgame competitive-based guild community there was in 2.0 and even early 3.0. But it unfortunally didnt last forever (although it did last a while). OPs were done right imo. The nightmare content was actually a challenge, even after 3.0 with the level advantage. Game events were good too! I remember the first 2, my favorite by far, too bad we never got to see them again after the legacy and reputation system. Unfortunately 5.0 saw the end of my SWTOR gaming. 4.0 had already started that though. The game became progressively easier over time. There was no real challenge, companions became too OP, and suddenly we all started to flood with them. The competitive raiding became a thing of the past (though much was attributed to 3.0 when people started to farm all challenging content) It's kinda sad the way SWTOR took its path whenever I think of it. Ill still hold this game in my heart and remember it forever.
Definitely. I hope people realize I like the game, just have to be honest with what the game was originally targeted to be and what it is now. 100% recommend people to play it for story, 100% would tell them to play another MMO if they wanted an actual MMO.
it has always been a Bioware RPG with Multiplayer. However with that being said they have always had a good amount of Raids. The raid are also some of the best I have played out of any MMO. Some really cool and innovative boss fights.
Yeah storywise it's STILL these best MMO it's better at hiding the typical "gather this and kill that" that other MMO's do and make you just skip things. The whole "Dread War" Arc is amazing imo
Idk about solid single-player game. Combat is just too bad because it's mmo, wow gameplay ends up being enjoyable most of the time because it's multiplayer and when you combine classes in certain encounters it becomes fun. But for singleplayer it's blank and boring, I was enjoying KotOR 1-2 gameplay more than SWToR gameplay, but at the same time love gameplay (of old versions) of wow more than KotOR. So overall I would say that SWToR is decent youtube story to watch experience.
@@elivai you have no idea what you talking about. I mean have you ever even tried that game? Constant new updates tons of people still playing ye this game is definetly "dead".
@@elivai EA announced that swtor has brought in over 1billion dollars over its time and since the new movie is coming out, you can bet there will be even more loads of people.
Almost 2020 and i just STARTED playing.....why did i wait so long loving how well the story missions are deveolped.....and actually voice acted....feels like you are actually part of the story not just here go do this and kill this guy and pick 10 of these....i mean sure those quests are in there but ive just only done story/class quests and im almost lvl 40 after a few days lol
Honestly? Yeah. I never had the chance to play Galaxies until about 2 years ago, and maybe if I had been able to play it when it was "new", I could have learned to enjoy it. But as the remnants of it are? I just couldn't. I LOVE the idea. To essentially play a game where you live in the SW universe. Whatever kind of experience you want. Sure it sounds ridiculous to some to say "Dude, sometimes I just want to live a simple life on a moisture farm on Tatooine." but look at how games like freakin' Stardew Valley have performed. Or you can do the big, bombastic galaxy important things like being a Jedi Master, teaching an apprentice and going on big diplomatic or dangerous missions, etc. The potential for this is there. If they could only manage to pull it off, take the concept of Galaxies, perfect it, have the story content be there for it, and by the FORCE, allow the damn game to live on after the inevitable official shutdown. I know there's a lot to be said about people "wasting their lives away" with games like WoW and others. But genuinely, I'd live and breathe this hypothetical holy grail of a game. Could you imagine if it got to the point that WoW did? Where people out there legitimately earned a sustainable (or nearly sustainable) income from just playing the game and selling their loot or their services to assist? People talk about the "American Dream", and say stable job, husband and wife, two kids, modest home and reliable car; to hell with that, what I just described, now THAT'S the American Dream to me. (Not a life goal, mind you, though that'd be amazing, ngl.) Anyway, enough of this rambling mess. Point is I agree lol.
@@magustobias8827 that’s what I always wonder when people say things like this 🤔 I’m inclined to be open minded and see if it might help my decision playing/returning to a game...but most of the time it’s just incredibly biased bs lol
Now this is not a knock on the game or it's players but I used to really enjoy the competitive online gaming but I'm old and I'm tired of the toxicity. I just want to play in the SWTOR universe so now I find myself playing KoTOR one and two. The problem is how many ways can you play the two games?
I agree it should have been single player, I Hope BioWare eventually does make a single player Star Wars game like Mass effect and the original Kotors for current gen too not just PC. All I have on PS4 is battlefront 1&2 haha I need more Star Wars games for it.
@@Dcuniversefan Or perhaps MMOs require too much maintainance to be profitable; except for a few companies like WOW. A single player game with multiplayer optional is less of a headache to maintain; and maybe more profitable.
If anything, that's kept the game afloat. End of 2018, a new SWTOR expansion was just released and still it retains it's quirky charm that I keep coming back to.
It's a real shame how they ignored a lot of the world building and character development done in KotoR 2. KotoR 2 made Revan a much more interesting character. And they just threw it away.
Didn't they kill the Exile (KoToR 2 pc) offscreen? I think I remember an npc casually mentioning it like it meant nothing. I would say casually killing the big hero off is a big slap in the face but at least she, I think the canon is female, didn't become a crazy hobo living in a cave like Revan.
Ughh so agree with the space combat. SWG jump to light speed was an amazing expansion, and the space combat was an entire game on it's own. Hated the on rails combat in swtor.
Just cannot get into space combat - it seems misplaced in an mmo which is about character development and story/choices. I only ever used JTL for better travel between planets in SWG also.
I originally saw this title and was like, "Pft, what are you talking about?" But after watching this video, I changed my tune. You definitely put a lot of work and research into this topic. Also, I really like how you explained your statements in the end of the video and really help to put things into perspective. What a pity for SWTOR though. I loved it, but as you said, I loved it while playing by myself. Anyway, great stuff, dude! Really enjoyed it.
+stealthyshiroean thank you. I probably would say it's the greatest compliment for somebody to say that they disagree with me and then after watching the video they support my argument due to the way I presented it.
EA needs to revamp their entire business model. They buy developing companies that need more money, like Bioware, who are willing to merger to be able to do the high quality games they are known for even better. The EA limits the fuck out of what the developers can put into their games, rushes them to put out content fast, forcing the developers to use cut & paste in a lot of their areas, the very things gamers hate. They are greedy, and while I GET that a business is intended to make money, doing so by running games (the product) into the ground is not the way to do it.
I can see it now. Subscription based. $10 to make a character. Level cap at level 10 until you pay to progress. Spec points can be bought through an in game store. Day 1 expansion which is actually just the other half of the base game. Bans anyone going 10-0 in pvp because it’s “suspicious.” Costs money to enter raids.
Sith Agent was the class I wasn't sure about before I played the game... it turned out to be the best story arch in the game! Alongside Sith Warrior. Which is intriguing that a very unorthodox class came out to be fantastic espionage, almost hitman-esque story granting player a look into depth of politics, conspiracies and all the machinations behind the 'Game of Thrones' so to speak... Whereas Sith Warrior turned out to be this fantastic 'chosen one' scenario of a character who is supposed to be that relentless force of destruction embarking on spiritual journey, discovering the true connection to raw force and how you become it's living avatar, and even Emperor's Wrath... wow. Meanwhile almost all other classes were... eeeh... Worst was the Soldier and Jedi Knight... predictable and going down the checklist of tropes.
I agree with the imperal agent storyline and sith warrior storyline both were really good ,I also to an extent loved the sith inqisitor storyline the rest were okay at least on the empire side they were, I however,was not super fond of any of the republic storylines. they all seemed pretty generic to me espically the jedi knight one.
I liked the 1st arc of the troopers story line. Getting revenge on your squad mates who betrayed you while building a new squad was hella cool. The arc after was a boring stock stop the super weapon/doomday device story that was hugely disappointing.
Indeed, but so was Sith Warrior, and the ending was quite a thing, you know... it's like discovering that the big dumb brute was the evil mastermind in a Bond Movie kind of thing :P JK would have been quite ok if they've given us some twist at the end, some genuine surprise. Well, it just wasn't there, sadly.
Oh yeah, 1'st arc was quite nice, the comrades going rogue due to some event that changed them. That's what kept me playing innitially. I hoped for something along the lines of: discovering what caused them to abandon post, and have your loyalty challenged. I almost thought, that the 1st act would lead to Spec Ops: The Line kind of dilema, or some heavy Kojima shit, 'Soldiers without borders' etc. Which would have been awesome. But, as you said... doomsday device scenario... and after the Force Awakens, this idea became even more outdated and predictable...
SWTOR is personally my favorite MMO to date and I jump back in 2-3 times per year just to replay a class, expansion or new content. Definitely some solid points in this video for sure and a great overview of the game. Steam release and Mandalorian has really brought a resurgence of players too.
SWTOR fanboy here. I saw the title of this vid and had assumed this would be 47 minutes of subjective drivel. I ended up watching the whole thing and, to my pleasant surprise, found everything you mentioned on point. As a guild officer, it’s part of my responsibility to find ways to keep our guildies entertained. It’s difficult, but we make do with what we have. We all still really enjoy the game, but at the same time, know that it’s on its last legs and will enjoy it for as long as we can. Great work on this video, man! I hope to run into you online in the next (actual) SW MMO. :)
30 minutes into the video and there's not a single mention of how the developers had removed the unsubscribe button from their website on the day before all the first months of subscriptions rolled over forcing players to pay for a 2nd month.
I've heard stories of EA doing that with top titles on day after release or something. From what I heard, to get your refund, you'd have to write to them etc and pottentially lose the right for refund due to waiting times.
Wow you're dumb as fuck. Do you honestly not see the problem with essentially trying to rob people of money they didn't want to spend? We're all glad your internet wallet is so big that you can set ten dollars on fire just to watch it burn, but a lot of people actually have a problem with being cheated out of any amount of money, as crazy as that may sound.
It doesnt sound like they paid 20, it sounds like they paid 10 and then EA robbed them of 10. I don't give a fuck if its a single penny if you take it from through some bullshit like this I would be pissed.
lol, its actually a matter of consumer rights, IE the right to unsubscribe from a subscription service if that offer has been extended, the only way you ever need to pay an unsub fee is if its a contract with a phone company or similar
my main problem was the engine and the overall MMO feel. The engine was crap and everything felt floaty without physics and the MMO grind killed the story for me as in the mist of grinding, i would forget where the hell i was story wise. This happens many times in different MMOs for me like in GW2, but that game's core gameplay was more fun and that's why I still play it. SWTOR was just a grind fest unless you paid and it was terrible to play without a sub. However, I do have the commend the game for the amazing looking scenery from the metropolis of Coruscant to the spawling fields of Alderaan. It was just gorgeous to look at. And my companions were fun for a bit i guess. The main thing that kept me playing was the Star Wars universe. If it was any other, I would have quit long ago.
depends when you played it. I finished the main story-lines with just f2p (not even preferred) in later patches where there was no grind whatsoever: just do your own story and the planet's story (which in my opinion just enriched your own story most of the time) and you're good. This wasn't the case in the beginning, but the moment expansions came out, it was very easy to do this and there was no grind required.
pl4free the side quests were the grind. They were tedious and you had to do them to stay leveled. The side quests were so bad that it made me quit for a while. Now whenever I return I just sub to skip all that crap and focus on the main story. Not that I play anymore.
I hated the fact that you killed the leader of a civil war army stopping the war, then you get out on the planets surface and the civil war is still going on, it ruined the immersion the came could have been so awesome if it had been single player and I expect i would have spend hundreds of dollars on such a game.
As someone who is playing this game, with a subscription while in in university, this game works great for single player, but also multiplayer content works fine, maybe as I get into late game players will dwindle but I see enough level 75's that I imagine that won't be a problem
Its a great game, just not a great MMORPG. It has great stories, great characters and decent game play, just not very good multiplayer. The only problem that I have with the story lines is how easy they have made everything, its like permanent easy mode till you get to end game ops.
Yeah in one of the Sith storylines as a new recruit you have to kill your instructor to prove your general sithiness. I was like, oh man, my instructor? I'm just a newbie, without even a master, how could I challenge a high level Sith? And the fight was just like killing any other random mob. Such a disappointment. At least the heroic missions were challenging, but the story quests could all be completed without using more than your basic attack. Lame :(
It wasn't like that on release, in fact it was a bit too hard in places. If you didn't have good gear and knowledge of your skills and rotations you died. Now... you can face roll through the whole darn game. If you have a decent level with your comp you can easily do all 2+ heroics and most 4+ ones as well....till endgame, then it suddenly matters if you are good or not. I miss how it was a year or 2 ago..
That's a perk of an mmo, making the levelling content easy so people can access to endgame without spending 200+ hours in levelling... I agree it is a problem in swtor, and the video talked about it a lot.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the extremely bad PR involved here. Like when Bioware REMOVED the button to cancel your subscription when their numbers started sinking and banned people who circumvented it, the large amount of silenced criticisms and the overall behavior of staff that ultimately got the Bioware forums shut down to save face. It was a very special time to be on the internet and I'm glad this one is something I was around to witness. ------ End of rine and so on.
I don't think you read my post. Initially when their sub count started dropping, before it was free to play, Bioware intentionally removed the button to cancel your subscription from their site and banned people from their forums who bypassed their attempt at stopping people from leaving.
I personally love this game. I just started. I'm free-to-play and im late because i just got a PC. however i respect your opinions and i see what you present. Edit: Bioware used to be so great :(
Greetings. The year is 2021, Old Republic is still available for download. As a huge Star Wars fan and I guy who plays mainly single player games, this game sounds AWESOME!!! I’m looking forward to going through these storylines and completing quests as I prepare for the KOTOR Remake. Most content solo-able: YES! Heavy story focus: YES! Free-to-Play: YES!!!
This game is still one of my favorite MMOs, I haven't played it in ages though due to how greedy it has been. Despite all of its problems though, it will always have a place in my heart.
I am. It is much improved. Wish it launched like this, but i am totally addicted. Hoping the next expansion brings people back cause the game is much better now. Also, yes, the "death of" is greatly exaggerated. It seems to be bringing people back with Jedi under siege (wich is what brought me back as well).
@@NemXX2 yeah i'm not sure where the whole it's dying thing comes from as it is constantly updating with huge updates, including new story, gameplay changes, new worlds, new strongholds, loads of new items, new characters and new races, etc, i don't see why a dying game would put that much investment into a dying game, yeah the population is less than it used to be but it does get new players and has a stable number of staying players and makes enough money to justify the consitant full updates.
@@charlestownsend9280 im a regular player, but im sorry to say the decrease in recurring players says its dying its sad as i want it to thrive too, so i can have active warzones 8v8 no matter the time of day. Also just because a business invests money into something doesn't mean its doing well they may be trying to jump start it again and hopefully attract new and old members. Hopefully this isnt a last resort they are using to try to bring back a bigger player base hopefully they never give up and keep bringing us new content.
I'm looking forward to the new content next month with the return of Kira and Scourge. I would say the game is still going strong as they wouldn't bring out new content if they felt players were leaving. Considering the new content also is said to include updates to improve the game would indicate EA still has faith in it otherwise they would have just done another new story. Also the new content was meant to come out this month but they pushed it back to October to fine tune afew things clearly indicates a renewed effort rather than a final hurrah before calling it quits as tying things up would take less effort than a revamp.
I just recently got into this game with a couple of my friends, and I have to say I am quite enjoying it. Your points on why the game is a shell of what it once was (playerbase wise) are all very well researched and documented. On this note, I agree with you. However, I do not consider this game to be a failure. SWTOR has been online for many, many years and has made a huge amount of money. Not every game that dies is a failure. Some day, WoW will shut down. Will it be considered a failure simply because the servers are no longer active, regardless of how long they were up and how much money they made?
I really don't think WoW will ever shutdown. Look at all even much older MMOs that are still up and running. Everquest and Runescape not only they are still alive but keep getting updated. First updates needs to stop. At this point there is still huge team making new content. They can then reduce servers to just few and BAM! All they have to do is pay for few servers and that's it. It does not make sense to me why should they ever completely erase all their work. They won't do it. Hell they even still maintain Diablo 1 servers... If bunch of random people on internet can run private server there is no way Blizzard cannot run one as well no matter how bad playercount will be. Especially if alternative would be to just flush over decade of developement to dain.
Everytime I found video like this, it always puts tears in my eyes. I have the best memories from this game through my life. Mostly beacuse of people. I was part of progression raid group for 4.5 years and it was just biggest fun ever. We kinda all get to know each other, were having nice conversations, doing content together (Mostly Operations ofc) and as it goes I even have few friends from there in real life and we visit each other. Then it happened no MMO content...it was what we did for the whole time and we enjoyed it the most...the operations itself was much better than raids in any other MMORPG. So where there was none new, the guildmates started departing to other games, me too. So SWTOR being kinda killed in 2017 is very true and I would even go back to 2016 that was the pinnacle of dev bullshit and the biggest lie for us raiders escalated...
where is the massive? you can max be 130 players in a instance before it clones into a #number, you can not have any sort of massive battles, there is no massive crafting, no massive anything really, SWG was massive. I guess the term MMO has changed definition over time, when I started playing mmo's it was Ultima Online back in 1996, back then mmo meant interactive themed sandbox, where the community was the "massive" part and all the interactions it could have with itsel, it was on a massive scale, then during the years they scaled down the massive to more linear and themeparks became the new MMO, after themeparks came swtor with its "story" element making the game even more streamlined, now you have 4 stories on each side of the fence and main story is singleplayer choice only, if you do the planetary content you can do it as a group, a small group, there are some operations for more players but I would hardly call them massive. =) The word MMO has lost all meaning to me so, sorry for this discussion that you clearly are not willing to have =)
It lasted like a week before dying and I'd say the actual reason behind everything is quite interesting if you look into it like how they changed it from being more hardcore to the actual Overwatch Clone people claimed it to be during the free weekend and at the release of patch 1.4 and how the devs swear it'll never ever go F2P and actually have shut down people talking about the player base on their forums and even locked the main steam forums so only people who own the game can talk in them while even currently ignoring the player base problem and having the game up on the main steam page at least one or two days that the Steam Sale has been running this year. In short its a giant mess that should be entertaining to talk about and that isn't even going into how insane some of the fans are and how they all seem to be close friends with the devs stating the game isn't dead and trying to convince people that it isn't dead going as far as to outright lie to people about it back when the forums weren't locked off to only owners and had many people asking if they should buy it or not due to how low the player count is.
As someone who's played probably 300+days of SWTOR I can honestly say it was a sad uphill struggle to even log on sometimes. It became clear most fans of SWTOR really just wanted a KOTOR 3 where as the minority of us wanted a WOW in space painted in a SW theme. I absolutely love the KOTOR series but I also wanted a real SW:MMO experience which SWTOR never fully felt that engaged enough until SOR came out. SOR though a pretty lame story to bring back and kill Reven off...again...(SPOILER...lol) definitely gave us the hardest amount of content to date. To this day I still wish I could have been part of a group to take down HM Reven however it became harder to maintain an active guild willing to put in the work. PUGing in SWTOR was a mess, hours spamming in chat only to have to teach this guy not only how the fight works but at closer inspections didn't even know how to spec/manage their class. SWOTR's story content was too easy, and first time players get to have fun, until that honeymoon phase is over and they join the MMO part of the game which the game never did a good job at transitioning players. As for the combat system, I hear this complaint a lot and honestly I feel like it's a very small voice in the community given WOW's combat which SWTOR borrows heavily from, was nearly identical even down to the naming of the abilities like Sunder and Retaliation to name a few or else tell me what Action combat MMO has more subs than the classic system of waiting on cd's? Overall SWTOR was a sad disappointed that I kept waiting for it to be good, early raiding though a mess was probably the best years I had with the game. Came back during SOR only to be angry we could never beat HM Reven due to maintaining a Roster, and played through KOTFE/KOTET begrudgingly given it was clear these two expansions combined could have been KOTOR 3 instead, since you got endgame gear just for gaining xp for "all" sources including replaying the story. Is SWOTR dead, it was dead for a long time to me, but I was also in denial cause I love the universe of SW, and having played WOW off and on for 12yrs it was a vacation game for me between major raiding patches. I will say SWOTR on a positive has the best single player leveling experience of any MMO to date, nothing I ever played was more engaging playing to the very strengths of a BW:RPG.
Valkris84KT in defense of the pugs, the game itself never really teams you how to rotate your abilities for the various classes, there are few guilds that will take a newbie and show them the ropes, but there is no incentive for the game itself to run that type of tutorials. the tutorials they do have tell you nothing along that line.
I have 320 days played across all my chars and Im with you. I really appreciated the story universe in the game. It is truly fantastic, but I really wanted Swtor to be WoW with a Star Wars theme. It was kinda until Kotfe and Kotet in my opinion. I loved the game 2011-2015 and it will always be a very rememberable time of my life.
SWTOR would fare better if it was somekind of action-shooter-mmorpg. Less stupid wow skills (we have so many unimaginative clones as it is ) and more fun and movement in gameplay. The game was a cashgrab after the prequels, which they borrowed heavilly on artwork inspiration, which seemed odd as it was supposed to be taking place many time before the movies events.
@Mercb3ast, That's just it I always hear people say the same thing about WOW or the WOWification of the MMO genre. At my current age of 33 I've been playing MMOs since Dark Age of Camelot back than on a 56k dial up modem. Noone paying a monthly subscription isn't looking for the next big MMO, hell most people just want a consistent concept, drop and go gameplay, and a robust endgame. WOW delivers despite my own negative criticism of the game these past 14yrs but honestly there are very few games that can pull that off. SWTOR never went full WOW, sure in the beginning skill trees, character progression, combat, and loot definitely displayed that familiar feel to WOW since the game was being pedistooled by fans as the so called "WOW killer", which in itself should be pretty much an internet urban legend given nothing will kill WOW. People always talk about wanting something better, indeed I cursed WOWs name plenty of times in forms but always kept coming back. I tried branching out to the more eastern MMOs like Black Desert Online, Aion, Archeage, Blade and Soul, Tera. Played several "WOW inspired" games like Rift, LotRO, SWTOR, GW2, and Wild Star(sad this one never made waves). I even attempted Eve until I realised it's a rich man's MMO. Regardless I searched, level to max in all these games and was immediately reinstalling WOW shortly after because WOW just does endgame better. Sure I can create hentai babes in just about every Eastern MMO with a purchasable school girl outfit from a cash shop for the most immersion breaking gameplay as my vixian avatar is slaying dragons with a visible whale tale and tramp stamp "but the combat is amazing", one might say. Build a farm with cattle next to my homestead all while protecting my land from thieves in open world PVP sounds fun till you lose all your shit. Eve with it's massive player economy often being used today in real world economic classes, in game corporations, factions, and full on galactic dominance completely player driven feels more like a CEO simulator. These examples are just a few of what people tote as "innovation" but again WOW always delivers in the endgame with it's dated style, combat, character creation, loot, 100+ color swaps, and like you said it's just a rip off of EQ, yet it garders more subs than any other game. Do people truly want innovation? All the games I listed above do 1/2 things better than WOW ever could and yet as a package WOWs current state offers more than any other game of its genre which bothers me considering I also rode many hype trains straight into the brick wall of cynicism when I final realized I just wanted more WOW in different colors, themes, and backgrounds.
2023 the dev team is now basically just a *skeleton crew* the others are on the new DA & ME games. Edit update : Now Bioware dropped the development to Broadsword
This video makes me want to take up the game again. Especially since he mentioned how good the imperial agent and other imperial storyline is. I haven't actually played those. I kind of want to play before the game closes down. My main problem with doing that is the MMO qualities of filler quests and time sinks. I just want the story without the fetch quests and other time sinks. Can someone tell me if this is possible in the current state of the game?
Honestly you don't need to be a sub to play through every class storyline without doing extra stuff. Especially if you're using XP boosts, which you can combine with legacy purchases to increase the amount of XP gained from class quests (these are purchases that can be made with in game credits). As far as the game 'closing down' goes, don't listen to this dude. He made this video a year ago and the game hasn't come close to shutting down; in fact, they're still expanding the content.
4 years later and we're still getting a new xpack this holiday. Glad to see the "ending of development" never happened, and that the game mostly stabilized.
@@Abyssiondubs i rerolled new characters and am loving the hell out of the class stories again. It's been years since i've played them and they feel completely new to me.
Played this game since pre launch on and off. most recently played endgame a week ago. Queued for Flashpoints (group pve) and was getting into groups every 1 to 3 mins. I couldn't even sort my loot out between matches because it was ready too quickly to go again. Now we have Discord, arranging the higher group content for Operations is even easier. This game is nowhere near dead. Plenty of players all the time at hubs. In fact, the game has more content and players now than when this video was released, so if anything, the game now has more life than 2 years ago. Thank you steam and discord.
@Sipping tea indicates not giving a fuck Thank you for the reply. I did listen to the end more than once over the years. The game has definitely not declined in active players since the vid was first made. Not guessing or reading charts, but actually played the game and experienced chat and waiting times for group content. Have you played it recently?
@Leon's European island adventure I wouldn't say the game has more players than ever either. In fact I said "more life than 2 years ago" when the vid was made, demonstrating it was not dying.
@Leon's European island adventure Thank you for your reply. Mine is at the top. The game is called dead, yet I have played it as recently as 2 weeks ago, lots of players at hub, very active GTN (in game market), fast queues for PUG content. I would call the game dead while playing but by the time I typed the words, my match was ready.
@Leon's European island adventure I will respectfully agree to disagree. I acknowledge Nerdslayer's definition but the reality is 1) a basic google search of SWTOR population in 2020 is estimated 5 to 8 million subs, rated 13th out of 129 MMOs. You can use any words you like to describe it. Have you even logged into the game and played or are you just reading about the game? What matters more than anyone's video or definition or google stat is that I have played the game recently and not encountered an issue with lack of players.
20:15 I think the move toward single-player was fine because that's how I'd been playing SWTOR for a few years at that point. My problem with the expansions (KotFE in particular) was that it homogenized the class stories and companions, two main selling points of SWTOR. Your class didn't matter in terms of the story anymore. In KotFE we were separated from companions who had played pivotal roles in our story previously (and some companions that had even been important in the Emperor's own story never returned by the end). Even when we did reunite with a returning companion, the most we got was 30 seconds of dialogue to acknowledge we knew each other. KotFE also restricts your choice of companion during story content, but that barely even matters because it made the differences between the companions negligible. Companions became entirely aesthetic choices and that's honestly a shame because they had been such a unique thing for an MMO. Even if the overall story was a strong one, it would still feel pretty empty. It wasn't a strong one, though. It wasn't even a good one. It would be generous to call it mediocre.
I haven't played it in a year or 2 but hearing that they've doubled down on story content makes me want to play again actually...shame about the companions though. It was a pretty unique system and helped offset the weakness of whatever spec you were.
Well companions don't really matter any more. Any companion is as good as any other, only real difference is if you want ranged or melee. All companions can heal, dps or tank your choice, and they all perform the same. Nice thing is that you no longer have to farm gear for them like you did at launch. They don't need gear at all.
I've put a couple of hundred hours in, and still haven't finished the latest expansion. I don't ever repeat missions, so i would say there's quite a bit of content in the game, even if alot of it is filler or rinse and repeat. It's not the thousands of hours others do in MMO's, but i'm not a repeat/grind fan anyway. The only two tihngs i wasn't a fan of was the cartoony graphic style, and the fact that its existence pretty much kills any chance of a KOTOR3, which i would prefer.
I haven't even started on the big Expansions like Knights of the fallen empire. Why? I haven't finished the stories for the classes. They're just really good. Imperial Agent was my favorite so far.
Unfortunately this is an mmo. The joy of playing an mmo is not the campaign/story or solo content. But rather accomplishing something with other players. Developing great relationships with others and striving to achieve something together. That is what mmos are about and i have never ever heard anyone who plays this game talk about raiding accomplishments or memorable boss fights. They only talk about how good the story is. But the story is not what makes an mmo.
I was playing SWTOR from the start and enjoyed hell out of it. ( Sith Warrior for life ) Anyway, you know how i treated that game? Not like an mmo, but as coop-rpg. That helped a LOT. Since I really dont like wow or themepark mmos whatsoever, since im more into open world social based PVP mmos, hm examples would be more like Lineage 2, EVE Online, Early stages of Archeage.( and lets be honest, we all know from who they " inspired " while creating SWTOR...khm,khm wow ) , so I mentality treated SWTOR as coop game and that helped to truly enjoy it. Up to this day i still think SWTOR is crappy mmorpg but good coop-single RPG.
Will they EVER make a starwars cg film or series using the animation and characters from these work of art trailers? Seriously, the one with the twins had a far greater emotional punch than anything made since Revenge of the Sith!
The storyline-quests and missions in SWTOR are brilliant and nice to play, I played all classes, great fun! But the atmosphere, crafting system and skill/profession system of SWG are so unique, unmatched and so uncanny, no other MMO has reached that level of fascination for me. After mastering 28 professions-trees in SWG, I've got a blue screen and the permission to play another, special "profession".., insider know what I mean. Never had that feeling in an MMO since that moment. Great job btw. N.S.
Regardless, I'd like to see him cover why because unlike Avengers Alliance and War of Heroes, there was a bunch of bullshit behind the scenes that killed Marvel Heroes.
Indeed and Disney yanked the license because Gazillion couldn't clean up its act . Now EA has irritated Disney with the bad press from Battlefront II .
As someone who was there at launch.. and came back in December 2019 i can say a few things about the game.. but it all boils down to a couple things.. The game is still running.. it is like any other game in that while not perfect, it certainly has player support even this far into it.. Unlike most it ALSO has new content VERY regularly. Not only not dead, but has better stories, better cosmetics, and an updated current model for making a very steady income. Not only a heavy endgame content game now, its continued high population servers does encourage BOTH multiplay, AND single play. Offering more choices of gameplay style isnt a flaw, its an advantage. With 19 lev75, itemlevel 306 (max level, max itemlevel) characters, a good guild and good friends im completely satisfied.
This is the only MMO I play consistently. I'm not playing it right now, but I'll get back on it pretty soon. It's the only game where the grinding is pretty much the story. It's awesome.
@Weilan it depends on personal preference. If you like more a more story heavy experience swtor is better. If you want a more mmo heavy experience swg is better.
I played since open Beta, I watched the population take extreme drop at the point when they Level capped the planets. At that point my entire guild dropped subs and quit the game. Our guild leader stayed the longest at 1 year after we all left. This was the best MMORPG i had found in a long time. I really miss what the game was before the micro transactions and all the 'NEW' content.... Thanks for the video it was a good watch!
I find that the people and the creator of the video, are still discussing the quality of this game today nearly 4 years after the videos release, proves that the game does have some kind of alluring quality to it that will always bring people back for more whether they dislike or not.
In the video, I literally said it's one of the best star wars games and one of my favorite games...I just also say it's not an MMO anymore, and a shit one at that.
I'm doing the Sith Warrior now, will try and play through all story classes as I finishing KOTOR1 and 2 just isn't as much fun anymore. I played healer Bounty Hunter originally with friends which was awesome, but when they stopped playing the Bounty Hunter class seem more like addon playthrough than a main story. Sith Warrior feels more like Kotor, though can't wait to play through the non force classes as well, even bounty hunter again. The graphics and voice acting is so sweet and the gameplay is fluent.
Been having fun playing the game for free recently. The class stories are worth playing through for in my opinion, some really good stuff from BioWare.
After you finish the story for your character the game just runs out of steam. I played from hutt cartel expac till before revan. The 50+ content was tedious and really unfun too.
Too bad they're not. Fuck EVERYTHING EA did after the shadow of revan, they've already ruined my favorite character in the EU and now they've completely destroyed the few things that made swtor decent. Knights of the fallen empire and the eternal throne are fucking disasters.
IT would have been mor fun if each class got more of a personal story arc expanding through the expansions. Instead of just everyclass gets the same story and the only different thing you can do is kill or save this person. Or just get the companions back. Like the Jedi Knight doesnt get Kira Carsen back in the story. And guess who I romanced as a Jedi Sentinel..
Not really.. after the server merge I find alot of people talking abotu them on the fleet and the two brothers armor sells for alot, I personally enjoy the story, (I hate thepart when your not doing the story missions and u still loose ur comps tho)
To be fair though. Even though they missed the chance to keep everyone happy and continue the Kotor series (notswtor) by continuing the single player games and doing it like Mass effect. I don't want a new Kotor game with today's bioware after what happened with andromeda and anthem
they just had another server consolidation...you do realize, that they had over 120 FULL servers at launch, right? this is not "fine"...this is surviving
@@kimrasmussen7188 Just? You mean, years ago? Also, original servers were tiny. Nobody denies that at launch there were many more people, that's how it always is with every single game, duh. But those 120 servers were like 15-20 current ones, at BEST.
@@jonathanchow993 yea, the zones look great, but the gameplay is pretty bad. it was expected, since theyre spending most of the resources to to save anthem now they have 2 dying games instead
I can't say that it has a bad story, but any hardcore KOTOR fan will tell you, that it is not KOTOR 3. You just do not get this level of writing that is present espetialy in KOTOR 2.
For me as a world first raider, back at the release of SWTOR, i can only say that my guild and my friends all dumped the game after a couple of months because of only 2 reasons! 1. Almost no content, even months after release with nearly nothing to do in the meantime! 2. Bug's and bug's and bug's especially in the first raid at the release (OMG i have vietnam flashbacks with the first boss or SOA the last boss xD)
I must give them, that they made one of the more fun pvp battlegrounds i have tried, "Hutball" basically a pvp battleground where you kill each other while trying to play rugby and score goals on the other team, was absolutely hilarious, you could throw passes and do intercepts and everything.
I know this is an old post... but because I care about the game... Several of my friends and I played SWTOR from day 1. Things went down hill with the implementation of Free-to-Play. The largest downside was the drastic dumbing down of content for players and making everything solo. Nothing was a challenge, if it ever was. From there the greed/implementation of F2P got worse and with it game play became less and less fun (for us). I would love to return. In a heartbeat, I would. But not as it stands. :/ I miss my Warrior and Sorcerer.
Game lost its appeal after SoR for me, i LOVED trying to down Underlurker on Hard Mode, it was HARD. Now it's a single player with the illusion of being a RPG.
I played SWTOR from launch for about 6 months. During that time period, it was basically just WoW in Spaaaaaace, with Starfox. The combat, the gear, the skills, the way the 2 factions were handled, the PvP, the PvE content, and the entire end game was all just WoW clone stuff. Space combat was just a SNES era Starfox game with much better graphics and a Star Wars paint job. Then there was Ilum. The original version of Ilum was a complete joke. The second version was an absolute trainwreck. (For reference: th-cam.com/video/S5KRtIjO0qQ/w-d-xo.html) The third version (which came in shortly after I left) managed to take it back to just being a complete joke. The blame for the WoW clone issue most likely rests squarely on EA's shoulders, as is the complete lack of any nods to SWG. The Starfox clone issue was most likely the Devs trying to duct tape together something as a result of poor decisions from management. Ilum's on Bioware, since it showed they didn't really know how to make a large scale PvP system. Add in the early problems with the WZ's, with people bailing out early, and ignoring the objectives to stand off in the corner of the map gaming the system to farm comms to buy better gear with while the people actually trying to win the matches would get next to nothing, and it shows they weren't much better with the small scale PvP system either. The irony, however, is that if they would have just used SWG as a blueprint, improved the graphics, and used the combat/skills system and setting from the first KOTOR (when it was using the d20 system), and added a relatively loose overarching storyline, the result would have been a much, much better game. Sure, it was cool to hear famous actors doing the voices, but that's just fluff. Even if they didn't have any voice acting at all, if the game itself was solid then very few people would actually complain about it. The number of races, the number of classes, and the sheer variety of different types of characters you could make in SWG absolutely dwarfed what was offered in SWTOR. And that's before the jedi were introduced. Making SWTOR a massive step backwards in many ways. And I didn't even get to play SWG until years after I left SWTOR, and figured I'd check out SWGEmu. Even missing big chunks of the original SWG and having a tiny playerbase, I found SWGEmu to just be a much more enjoyable experience than SWTOR was. Fortunately, I left SWTOR before they made it free to play, because nothing kills the enjoyment one can have in a game than a pay to win model. EA should have stuck with making the sports games they were actually good at back in the 90's, and never touched another genre or studio, because they pretty much consistently screw it up while nickle and diming the playerbase into submission. They've managed to make most of their games the exact opposite of fun. Hence why the game was known as TORtanic.
I just joined swtor, after 12 years of world of war craft, so I don't know what the launch version of swtor was like. That being said, the games are completely different to me, swtor has a rpg immersion, and storytelling ability that wow has never possessed. Sure, both have made a lot of the same mistakes over the years, but the game play is night and day different for me. The rest of that was tldr at the moment, so apologies if I missed the point lol.
@Leon's European island adventure might want to grow a brain so you understand what the word dead means. If it were dead, nobody would be playing it because the servers would no longer be in operation. So it's not dead, just has a low percentage of people that play it. Just because you want to be lazy and use a phrase, albeit one that is commonly misused, doesn't make it correct, just makes a general percentage of people wrong. Sorry if you think anyone is mad about anything. That is your own interpretation of the situation. I am not mad or happy or anything, just pointing out something that should be simple, but evidently is not. Good luck on your future arguments.
@Leon's European island adventure you're the one playing this childish tit-for-tat. You want to argue about the definition of the word and then get all butthurt because you're wrong. Then proceed to make an ass out of yourself and talk crap to people. Yes, I am crying. So glad you can point these things out.
The only bastion of Star Wars Legends still producing content, it is worthwhile for that reason alone, to see Star Wars in the light it deserves to be in.
I'm still shocked that it's been out for like 12-13 years or something and they have never released a single new class. It's been the same base 4 ones (with minor differences between light/dark side variations) with a few updates to skills throughout it's entire shelf life so far. Played it in beta and once it officially launched I was a nearly daily player until sometime between 2014-2015. There was some event thing before an expansion launch (iirc) where if you were subbed x amount of time before said launch you would get some western themed cowboy/bounty hunter companion which was the only way to unlock him (think it still is no idea). Being a completely and total sucker for FOMO tactics back then I wanted to unlock him since I had invested so much time and money into the game at that point. Around that time EA had some sort of "database leak" where people's account names and passwords got posted online and they never emailed people (at least not me) that all of our log-in information was posted online. Next thing I know my ex-boyfriend comes in screaming at me wondering why I spent like 90 dollars on friggin' fifa 15 having never played a single sports video game in my life. Turns out my leaked account information was used by some belland from Brazil. He logged into my account and used my ex-bf's credit card information that was saved to my account to steal a 'gift' for himself using our money. Once I figured out what had happened by going through my purchase history I got in contact with SWTOR support which claimed they could do nothing and told me to contact EA support which I did, that's when they made me aware of the account information hacking due to zero fault of my own yet was never made aware of the security breach. They begrudgingly after several back and forth messages confirming all log-ins from my account since it's creation were only done in Canada and having one random log-in from Brazil to buy a sports game for another account was of course extremely suspicious. The real kicker here (if you've bothered to read this far) is after they refunded the money to the stolen credit card they marked it with a black spot the same way they do to a person issuing a charge back. Meaning I could no longer use that credit card with my account anymore and that was literally the only one either of us had (this was before getting my own bank account/visa debit card). Because of that EA support told me I would not be able to get that Cowboy dude unless I used another credit card so I told them "no thank you, I had money stolen from me due to your companies lack of security and you never even had the decency to let me know my account information could be compromised with zero fault of mine". I told EA support to delete my account entirely (I had only ever used it for SWTOR and DA:Origins) and even though I lost years of unlocks, costumes and time they in the long run lost a customer completely as I will never again give any support either with money or time to another EA product as long as I live. Thanks for coming to my Ted talk on a 5 year old video.
Purely responding to your first paragraph - releasing a new class would be extremely expensive considering the amount of unique voiceover that would be required (player character - all new and old content, tracking down old voice actors to reprise their roles all these years later, all NPCs within the new class story, unique interactions all existing NPCs have that pertain to your class) and there's no way it would be a sensible return on investment. I don't think an entirely new class was ever on the cards for this reason alone. It's also the reason why class stories never made a return in any of the expansions aside from some unique dialogue with your old companions. They base game class stories were by far the best content (along with warzones and all the operations up until + including Terror From Beyond) but the sheer scale and cost meant that it would never be possible to expand or reproduce these. They could have definitely added an additional talent tree for each existing advanced spec however. Considering each republic/empire class spec had a mirror, that would make a total of 8 new talent trees which is no different to what Guild Wars 2 released with each expansion.
@@lust3390 So? They won't just throw money at something knowing full well it won't be a profitable endeavour. And adding a new class to the game would undoubtedly be a ton of additional work only to make a loss.
Game is very alive today. EA has also approved more budget for the game, most think due to the remake of the original coming out, and the new Old Republic trilogy due out.
@@nerdSlayerstudioss ....all...expansions are content updates... 0_o What is an expansion in an MMO. For say, WoW. It's new zones (planets), continued story (LotS continues the story arc), new systems (the new combat styles system,/other system changes/progression changes etc), smaller updates and content such as UI updates, Class updates, skill pruning etc (swtor is doing all of those in LotS) Not sure what your definition of an expansion is...but that's generally what expansions have in them, and that's what 7.0 has. Granted, the whole budget thing was spoken about well after the June announcement of 7.0. So who knows what is to come in the next year or two.
So is this some weird word gotcha? There is a clear different between a typical content update, and a full fledged expansion. But clearly you have moved the goal posts so much there isn't a difference, why I have no idea. I mean are you seriously going to say Onslaught is on the same level as Shadow of Revan? Rise of the Hutt Cartel? The game has been putting out paltry content updates after relaxing any semblance of RPG/difficulty in the game (after KOTFE failed to live past the trailers). SWTOR is one of my favorite games of all time, but it's quite easy for me to be honest about the game. I still recommend it to people, but past the class stories it's a sub par single-player story and mmo experience.
SWTOR was the first MMO I ever paid for, and I'll tell you this: Over the thousands of hours I played it, over all the stories I went through and genuinely enjoyed, I spent MAYBE 2 hours doing group content, and actively despised doing it. It's like there was a conflict within Bioware/EA about how the game should be made; the writers clearly thought this would fair much better if it catered to the KOTOR fanbase, and so they spent a lot of time crafting intricate and interesting stories for each class, making it really feel like it was the next KOTOR. Problem is, that doesn't work for group content. If you make everyone feel special then no one feels special, and that's kind of how the flashpoints felt to me. Why should I care about these other players? They aren't a part of MY story and they just don't fit with the narrative path I'm taking. After I played SWTOR (until the Cartel expansion), I left and played WoW. Guess what? I may not have cared about the story much at that point (lore's interesting and all, but it feels kinda separate from the game), but I was playing group content CONSTANTLY because the game is built around group play. You progress faster through levels and gear, you fight cooler bosses, and you often had to communicate your way through tough encounters. That kept me playing from late Cataclysm until Warlords of Draenor, where I felt like I was just done with the game. I still come back to SWTOR every now and again, but it just feels... weak. You're 100% right about the combat, it just never felt like it was weighty enough, it feels like you're slapping someone with a lightsaber when there should be some level of power in that kind of weapon. I still might play it before it fully and truly keels over and is taken offline, finish up the stories I missed, play the expacs I never got around to. The stories and work put into crafting them will always stick with me, even if I would still much rather have had a proper KOTOR 3
This is a good point. I'm a wow original, just switched to swtor last month, after 13 years with wow. Wow is better built for group content, it's easier to get into, and more necessary for the game play loop. That being said, swtor's immersion, and story telling blow blizzard out of the water. I've never experienced an mmo where I felt more connected to my character than I have in swtor. For the first time in my life I'm excited to level alts, just to get to see more of the story. Each game has made very similar mistakes, and it appears both publishers, and dev teams, are both equally obtuse when it comes to taking in fan input. I hope swtor's new expansion does better than wow's recent venture, but sadly I think we have seen the best days for both, pass years ago.
The story and fully voice acted aspects is what grabbed my attention back in 2013ish. I can't stand the other MMOs that have 0 voice acting. I spent all my time doing the beginning quests over and over. Here I am in 2021, restarted playing with a new account. I have gotten farther then I ever have, and I am completely hooked all over again. Someone who has never really been into multiplayer and grew up an only child, will love the singleplayer first multiplayer second feel to this game.
I'd be very curious to see a second look at this now, just over four years later in an increasingly post WoW world where people have been jumping to other, already present MMOs like ESO, FF14 and SWTOR among others. The past 2 years alone have seen some pretty significant changes to the game and its population, showing that both Bioware and EA still have both faith and resources they're happy to pour into a 10 year old game that many wrote off years ago. The Hero engine itself may be the biggest hurdle, and updates are certainly slower than in higher profile MMOs, but the community for the game is exceptionally solid, and been increasing.
SWTOR has excellent storylines. Literally some of the best in any game. My wife (and now, my oldest daughter) and I play together, and it’s great you can have other people talk to NPCs with you. I loved finding the lore entries, as well. But it isn’t a MMO. None of us interact with any other players. There is literally no reason to do anything with any other players, even dungeons and 4 man quests.
Both me and a friend of mine were big fans of SWG. When TOR was created my friend picked it up and started to play it immediately, but I decided to wait and simply watch him play. Soon after I quickly figured the game simply wasn't for me and wrote it off, he still plays the game and enjoys it.
it wasn't Bioware or even EA's call. It was Lucas Arts. No really, Black Isle tried to make Kotor3. but Lucas arts said "No people don't play single player RPGs anymore we want a MMO"
Thinking that swtor was made with hate and ignorance of what the fans wanted, thinking that they didnt know we also wanted KOTOR 3 is just you being salty cause of the battle front 2 mess, this game came out in 2011, and became the most actively subscribed on the first day, shouldve made what peopel actually wanted?? it was outplaying EVERY other mmo at time of launch
Great video. Your observations mirror my own. The only thing you didn't really touch on was PVP. I recall Bioware was 'shocked' that PVP was so popular. Myself and all of my guild mates quit because the lack of attention to pvp. The RPG story was fabulous, but pvp 'was' our end game, and where swtor ultimately failed to deliver. I recently went back to check out the game again, see how it has changed, and ended up logging out after a cpl hours after being reminded of the cheesy art style, dated graphics and stiff animations. Maybe a limitation of the hero engine? But... after playing silky smooth, absolutely gorgeous games like GW2, swtor.. is hard to come back to. Voice acting and great story are one thing, but gameplay is what keeps players coming back and sadly... swtor lacks. I'm extremely disappointed EA has an exclusive license for SW games. They have made it clear another next Gen star wars mmo game is nowhere in sight. Sad... Star Wars has such a massive following. Having a Star Wars themed game, similar to the art style and features of the up and coming Star Citizen (two years from now?) seems like it would be such a cash cow....
Charghetti Sparghetti no. No it wasn't. It had one of the largest initial launches but then when you say that you forget that you're talking about a STAR WARS game and one set in the same time period as the 2 most popular games in the franchise. The game started hemorrhaging subs almost immediately. The game relied on the brand, it was NOT outplaying anything. Learn to look at the variables.
Charghetti Sparghetti and then it fell just as fast as it grew. Don't kid yourself and act as if it was the holy grail of MMOs. It fell very very hard.
Of all your fantastic videos, this one surely aged the most like milk. Either way, this is still a fun video to go back and watch. Who knew that to give a second life on a ftp game with tons of content and a huge IP was just to launch it on the definitive PC gaming platform? If they can port this to consoles they’ll take it in even more. Crazy to think this game might STILL have a future of content updates and support.
well somebody made a crap load of money on it, so I doubt the executives consider their run with the game a failure, agree with many of your points though, I stopped playing it bc it just stopped being fun. Maybe there is some developer team out there that could make a clone wars sand box mmo! Now that would be cool, if I win the lotto tonight I'll finance it :)
It works in Black Desert Online, that's an MMO .... it also works in Blade & Soul which is also an MMO ... in fact their are a lot of MMO's that have action combat. They don't all have to be crappy WoW tap targeting 'rotation' nonsense.
I remember all the talk when this game came out. "It's a WOW killer", they all said. Within 2 weeks everybody had burned through all the content. Super disappointing.
I enjoyed your review, but I think you should have explained why Ilum was not a good PVP zone. When the game first launched there was even people being threatened with suspension for PVPing, mainly because some servers had massive faction imbalance and people would just go in groups to steamroll.
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he did... did you not notice the lag in the video of ilum when he was laughing?
when he starts talking about the rng loot its pretty funny that this is exactly the rng loot system of titanforged/personal loot system in bfa. and people fucking hate it, obviously.
I understand that a lot of players don't care about the MMO aspects and are happy enjoying the single player story content. The video makes it clear why the game fails as an MMO because of conflicting design directions, it also fails as an RPG for the same reasons. MMO design goals conflict with single player RPG design goals.
When they started focusing on their strengths, story-based single player content with KOTFE and KOTET, not only does that make it a worse MMO, it's also still a bad RPG because it's being delivered through an MMORPG. The combat system is shallow and based on pressing numbers in certain orders. All the gameplay design is basically WoW.
Because it's a F2P MMO, everything is designed with monetization in mind. One of the first motivations to spend on the game is to buy better speeders. All the planets are designed with long walks and lots of backtracking. Most large buildings won't let you enter straight through the door - you have to walk around the huge wall to get to the "real" inside - just to add to the frustration of not having the fastest speeder. Possibly due to open-world game asset loading as well, but still.
(Not to mention they murdered Revan's character)
I still enjoyed the game and got through some main stories, DLC, and came back later for KOTFE. But it was always a bittersweet experience.
Honestly, exactly
Single player here who doesn't bother with OPs or group content. I do only care about the single player experience, but even I am disappointed. I came to this game via Mass Effect, and even that game had a lot more interesting story content than the predictable, recycled and watered down content that existed since Rise of the Hutt Cartel ended all continuations of the much more engaging class story content. Kotxx was a chore to go through because you're practically playing the same story regardless of what class you play. Player choices are a joke in this game ever since post-beta when they removed the ability to kill your companions.
So yeah, this game isn't worth much either for its single player experience. There are far better single players out there like Detroit: Become Human, where your decisions have actual consequences with its countless endings.
I fully agree with the sentiment that there are two conflicting design choices that simply do not work together very well. HOWEVER, I always thought the monetisation in this game was really fair, especially from a singleplayer standpoint. You can drop a couple of bucks early on for some quality of life features and then you can play the story for hundreds of hours. There is no need for having the best of the best in singleplayer. There are some guides that tell you how to best invest your real life money but if you generally enjoy the game I don't think that paying around 15€ for all that content is too much to ask. I've certainly seen way, WAY worse in other games.
@FaldrinGW2 I do disagree that being F2P has any real gameplay drawsides. You get a free Legacy bank to put lots of stuff in, you get 6 rows of inventory slots for free if you use various things logically, and you can get a speeder relatively easy. The only drawback really is the fact you can’t access all of the story, which is a shame.
I don't understand this comment at all. The game wasn't launched as a F2P MMO. Speeders/backtracking/size of buildings were there from the beginning of the game weren't they? Did something change in regard to those things 1 year into the game?
Anyone else play this game JUST for the story and almost completely ignore all the MMO aspects whenever possible?
Story was really the only appeal for me
If you do side quests (which are pretty interesting) as well as exploration quests (other kind of side quests) you dont have to grind. I was doing it (while skipping the side quests except story arcs on some planets because the planet was boring (like Belsavis)) and now I have lv.62 Jedi Guardian! Also planets have level limit so on the current planet I dont have lv.63 but lv.48 (or something like that)
@@acername9012 been playing for 4 days only been doing class and the odd main story mission already 35 lol and im free to play as well so dont get as much xp. Loving the game/story but one question each class has a slightly different story line right? But all tie in together....i just dont wana go through the same class missions when i make a new character lol....kinda Why games like WoW have fuck all for replayability or its just a god damn mind numbing grind to lvl alts
Steven Mathews That’s pretty much me.
Same. It's crazy to me that people play it for the MMO aspect.
You know, I think swtor has found it's niche. It might not be a growing game but it's a stable game. The audience that's there is there to stay.
All 30,000 of the.
George Blair 180k daily players bro
@@nbubzy I stand corrected. I used to play - AVIDLY.
George Blair player base is growing right now too, which is cool to see
@@nbubzy I imagine quite a few are WOW refugees.
5 years later and still strong player numbers because even after a decade, people still appreciate the stories and the feeling of being immersed in the Star Wars world that, whatever this games flaws, still solidly achieves. Maybe if a day finally comes where a good and true KOTOR successor finally emerges, but until that day, this game will thrive off the people looking for a new KOTOR adventure
They literally just moved the game to another company and you still have the audacity to post this nonsense. The only thing that's
thriving is the old content the game launched with
@@nerdSlayerstudiossdamn hostility is real.
I recently logged in as a preferred to see how it works after the 64bit upgrade and move to the cloud. The most populated server after all the server mergers had a fleet with only 3-4 instances. Most of these people are just nerds trying to ERP. pretty sad.
In 3.0, harbinger would sometimes have up to 9 instances on fleet. And this was before the merges. I tried queuing for some mid level pvp and didn't even get one pop. Game is dead, and from what I read about broadsword, is more than likely going into maintenance mode.
Well, well, admitting mistakes is difficult, isn't it? Death of the game, my ass.
@@asdfz2140 Have you actually played the game? It's dead bruh. If not dead it's being kept on life support by a few whales who keep buying trash from the cartel market so they can sell it for erp. you call that an alive and thriving game?
I feel like a lot of people missed the point and argument of the video.
SWTOR is a perfectly fine game. Hell, it's still kicking and quite enjoyable. But it failed as an MMO entirely. It's more of a... single-player game with social element to it, at this point. A perfectly serviceable game, but an MMO it is not.
A pity, but its singleplayer merits make it an excellent game in its own right - the current community seems to largely prefer this, and the MMO niche in it also adds on the extra spice needed.
Also Vivec, what are you doing here?
Except it didn't? Look at the community and guild base. Roleplay discord servers with thousands active players.
Yes maybe it doesn't have ESports scene but not everyone needs it
I disagree. Instant queues, populated cities, caped zones of all levels. It seems heavily populated to me which in turn means it is living. I always run with people on there it is very much so an MMO. Unless the thousands of people I interact with are all bots. Lol.
Very much agree. I played it with a single player focus and did groups when I had to. I coughed up the money for the premium account and got the DLC. I was very attached to my Sith tank.
That's for the best. the community is bad, the design was horribly flawed from day 1, they built the game on an engine which was terrible even for the time.. trying to make it a decent challenging MMO is a huge mistake.
Plus MMO does not mean you are forced to team. not at all in any way shape or form. the best MMOs generally reward grouping more but you can solo most content. this is just good design, bad design is constantly forced grouping, unfair mechanics, knockback spam on every enemy, loss of control mechanics passed off as challenge and so on.
When the game does die, and servers shut down, we are going to lose all the good class storylines. That is the tragedy about SWTOR being an MMO.
play them now, the game will prob still be up through 2018. that's more than enough time!
It takes too long. The story is segmented by hours of walking, mashing keys and waiting for cooldowns.
Just watch the edited movies on TH-cam. SWTOR isn't worth the hundreds of hours it will take you to beat even one of the storylines.
hundreds of hours, no way! Only if you take your time with every single story and so on, but even then it won't take you hundreds for only one story-line (btw, what cool-downs: you can port to your ship any time you want and the quick-travel has a 6min cool-down which can easily be brought to 4 or even 2 minutes) Then again: playing a game is different than watching a movie, that's why people play RPGs instead of watching a movie. I don't want a KOTOR movie, the experience between playing and watching is totally different. As for it being "worth it", well that's for everyone to decide for him/herself.
pl4free -- It took me 104 hours to complete the Agent story and planet quests only, not taking the side quests.
Hayden Travis -- when was the last time you played it? I played it in beta and early in the life of the game, didn't like it. Returned recently after the 5.0 updates and quality of life changes, since then they've made more changes and the server merges have made it into a very fun game.
the fact you still read comments on a 3 year old vid is impressive.
Also shows the fact there are still comments on this 3 year video shows the fanbase of this game is still dedicated and not going anywhere soon. This guys an idiot.
@@craigsmith8571 sure thing buddy
Craig Smith Doubt you even watched the whole video, but then again I doubt a low iq brainlet like you can make it past the minute mark
Stop rounding bruh
It’s always nice to see how dumb people have been throughout the ages 🥶
Watching your whole video made me actually nostalgic for SWTOR... I download, resubed and jumped in to find the starting area full of people also starting new characters. But as you suggest i think will do this playthrough more in the mindset of a single player RPG, rather than as an MMO at all. You have definitely given me a new perspective. Thanks!
same here
Did exact same thing, and the new perspective is making me love the game.
Same tho. Watching this video made me really really nostalgic. I might pick up a subscription for this game for the first time and try to play it again
Maybe this is why i like it so much I never treated it as an MMO .
It should have just been a co-op version of KOTOR.
"That meant that BioWare became EA BioWare." I felt a great disturbance in the Force, as if millions of voices suddenly cried out in terror...
And i think swtor is less good than Kotor. They just shited Revan. He already made his Redemption in kotor, and then they are doing same crap. Just he fell to the dark side? Again? C'mon. In kotor it was beautiful story with such a good endings, just Revan is a jedi who now lives happy. I would be nice to end on that note, on that ending, but I think its not in Star Wars style to keep good endings good. I think Swtor its sequels to Kotor, just like in movies...
@@letrollproductions3562 evil ending in KOTOR was stupid though. With no sense, you randomly decide to go full TPK on your companions and stuff, imagine if Renegade Shepard literally shot Liara, Tali and Garrus for no rhyme or reason... Also giving Revan, who was more mysterious and unusual than Vader, a designated face from the same space-Jesus clone factory that produced Obi-Wan, Kyle Katarn, Carth Onasi and others wasn't a good move. Saying as someone who didn't play TOR because it looked like a joke with somehow worse than KOTOR, cartoony-looking graphics.
Gotta say, the (original) music in Swtor is better than anything I've heard in any Disney Star Wars movie. At least it has that.
Some of it is from Kotor 1-2
@@DavidRB oh hey arbiter funny seeing you around these parts
not to mention the writing i mean damn
Yes but SWTOR came out in 2011, where music was much better tan todays.
It also has better storytelling and atmosphere than any of the Disney films with maybe one exception...
Everyone's praising games like gta 5, and minecraft for being alive for almost 7 years whereas chess has been alive since the 15th century
Yes I agree
Hide and seek has been alive since the dawn of man.
Most people that play chess now play Minecraft.
I was looking forward to the Death of a Game video of Chess :(
@@Samladdy whaaaaaa
Man this game had some good ass trailers
I remember seeing one of the trailers nearly a decade ago without context and thought it was the greatest thing ever. I then completely forgot about it and only played kotor 1 and 2 two weeks ago.
Truly epic, made me want to play every class.
The high quality animations were and are some of the best things to be added to Star Wars, ever.
They are so damn fantastic, telling short tales in an epic and heartfelt way -- with no words. I watch them several times a year.
especially twohanded lightsabers.... KEKW
I'm infuriated that Disney and EA now hold the Star Wars franchise, because with them at the helm, the expanded universe is dead, KOTOR 3 will never be made despite how well it would do, and the Old Republic era will never be touched again, despite being by far the richest period in Star Wars history.
The Star Wars we knew and loved is dead, and I doubt it'll be coming back anytime soon as long as Disney holds the rights to the franchise and EA makes the games.
And that"s why you should be playing swtor, last breathing medium of good old star wars before the Disney murder 8]
in my opinion star wars isnt dying to Disney its to EA honestly EA is just hungary for money 24/7 lol look at alot of there games
First of all, the old Republic is a good era, but not the richest. Disney will go back to the Old Republic Era, and start their own version of events, which will probably roughly mirror what there is now.
The EU is dead, but Disney have started their own canon. Plus, Disney aren't stupid, they know there is a big want amongst fans for the EU to be continued as it was. As soon as their movies start to slow down they will go back to that. Disney aren't going to use all their cards at once. It may come in a few months, years or decades, but the EU is coming back.
The Old Republic era is really fucking good... but the best Star Wars era occurred at the very beginning... When people first started to discover the force and learn about it... Everyone had long-lost unique abilities based on their passion and interest in life... it explained the emergence of the lightsaber... it explained what sparked conflict between the Sith and the Jedi. HINT... it's not what you think. In fact, the entire Stars Universe is a lie. Unfortunately, the victors write the history and it's sad that everyone believes the lies and propaganda of the Jedi. There are some bits & pieces of historical evidence & questions that clearly contradict the story of the Jedi... but the sheeple continue to believe them without question. Eventho the Jedi have fabricated the history, they cannot hide the truth from those of commune with the force.
just resubbed to swtor and I kind of forget why it isn't more popular. Its obviously not an "MMO" but it's scratching my itch for starwars rpgs.
yeah it was never a MMO it's a bioware with Mulitplayer. Same boat as you started playing it again and going threw the 2 new expasnions and having a blast.
Yeah, I remember mocking this game back when playing Beta...But when I returned to it last year...I had a blast playing it like a SIngle Player Bioware game. Hell, I found it more fun than most of their previous titles.
If this game was marketed as a co-op story bases star wars game it would have hit highs I could not even think of. Thats how good the co-op and story in this game can be. Untel you feel mmo side quests that it is littered with. I knew what it wanted to be but did not know how to do it.
Robo I’ve been thinking about building a pc that can play this. I miss the good Star Wars game we “used” to get on Console. I love this game had a lvl 40 Jedi I believe had to stop playing cause the laptop I had just couldn’t run it properly.
@@jensaversjo316 - Exactly I returned about six months ago and played the "Emperor's Wrath" story right through from beginning to about halfway through the new expansions. The end of the Sith arc was epic.
I’m sorry for MMO enthusiasts not getting what they wanted from the game, but I love SWTOR primarily for its story. It’s the only MMO I have ever played or had any interest in.
I sometimes think it would have been better as a single player experience simply because one day it will be shut down and then all of these great quests and stories will be inaccessible forever after that.
But I can’t change the past so instead I just enjoy the time I do have with the game.
@DevilTrigger I found the plot enjoyable enough to keep me going.
I think a console port would be really cool with a multiplayer being an option
@ Well, I'm not a major MMO enthusiast, nor am I particularly well versed in RPGs outside of Fallout, The Elder Scrolls, and the Witcher.
Console port would be difficult, swtor's biggest strength over other mmos is the class design and the synergy of many different skills. Its much better than wow or eso in that regard any why it's my favorite mmo despite its flaws. Controllers just don't have enough buttons to capture the complexity of ability synergy in swtor.
@@andyb2977 Personally, I'd just be happy if they future proofed it with an offline mode.
The stories are good, but I really liked when my friend could come along with my stories missions and vice versa. The later store missions don't allow this and it felt like we were just both playing separate games while describing to each other what happened over discord. Now it's like a Massively Single-player Online Role Playing Game.
Who else did flashpoints alone
Me, i played swtor like a single player game
One more here, to me its best played as a single player game due to most guilds in RP and PVP modes only welcomes proplayers and someone like me who is new is mostly unwelcomed from my experience xD
Always did it solo or with one friend or something like that. Basically played the game like a singleplayer or coop KOTOR
Most flash points before the solo option with the OP droid buddy were pretty easy to solo with a tank+ Healer companion or Healer+ Tank companion.
Yup, same here! I played Swtor more like a single player game; sometimes with a bud or two.
The stories in this game are incredibly good in my opinion. All 8 classes, (maybe not consular) have really interesting and unique stories that make the game worth playing for any Star Wars fan, at least for a few months.
I honestly didn't like all the class stories, like the sith inquisitor sucks big time, but some are really good for role-play and the main side-missions sometimes really rock if done with the proper class: like consular on Voss
I thought consular was boring as hell, but yeah, for a fan of Star Wars playing through them would be worth it. For the most part.
Depends what you want: if you want an action-packed story-line that involves a lot of fighting it's not the story for you, but since most swtor stories are like that I found consular to be a very good change of pace. Then again, the consular is exactly what a jedi story should be: a healer, a diplomat, a leader and somebody constantly in search of knowledge. I also appreciated that there were plenty of opportunities to complete missions without fighting, which seems to be the only way for most of the other classes.
It's all subjective. I just found it be a bit long winded personally. Too much running back and forth. I didn't hate it, by any means. I just found others more interesting. I got bored with the Merc, too.
It simply would have worked better as a single player experience, the stories definitely reflect that as do the expansions
This game's cinematic are so fucking good.
Quiet a few of their storylines too were great. I truly believe the biggest contribution of this game is that it fleshed out other characters not just Light Side Jedi Knight.
Agreed, an actual Old Republic film with these style of cutscenes would be awesome
nerd Thank Blur for that.
KanganLogane would be way too expensive
The Hope trailer in particular had incredible action. I'm a simple man Disney, all I want is a movie with burly armoured troopers spraying minigun fire at droids and judo dumping bitch ass Sith on the floor.
Man, I LOVED this game and it helped get me through a very tough time. I always wished I could get a friend or someone I knew to play it with me, but oh well, that time has passed. I hope another Star Wars MMO attempt will be made in the near future.
Game's been slowly bleeding out since launch, never getting quite enough first aid in the form of end-game group content. That said, it's still a pretty solid single-player game, and for people who have never played it can still offer a lot.
Even now I occasionally return to the game to play through the vanilla game content to refresh my memory on a class story and/or planet stories. Since that stuff is all free, I haven't given money to the game in a long time.
EDIT: Also, solid taste in class stories, nerdSlayer. Agent and Warrior are my top two as well.
My thoughts exactly. I remember when the game launched... I was so hyped to play all over it, it took me well a month to get my first level 50, the game was hard, it really was. I remember struggling with boss fights, trying to get a group to play Heroics, flashpoints all to get gear and keep proressing..
I sticked around the game up until KOTET. Through all those years I saw the game change, the first expansions were pretty solid, endgame was good up until 3.0. Personally I loved the endgame competitive-based guild community there was in 2.0 and even early 3.0. But it unfortunally didnt last forever (although it did last a while). OPs were done right imo. The nightmare content was actually a challenge, even after 3.0 with the level advantage. Game events were good too! I remember the first 2, my favorite by far, too bad we never got to see them again after the legacy and reputation system.
Unfortunately 5.0 saw the end of my SWTOR gaming. 4.0 had already started that though. The game became progressively easier over time. There was no real challenge, companions became too OP, and suddenly we all started to flood with them. The competitive raiding became a thing of the past (though much was attributed to 3.0 when people started to farm all challenging content) It's kinda sad the way SWTOR took its path whenever I think of it. Ill still hold this game in my heart and remember it forever.
Definitely. I hope people realize I like the game, just have to be honest with what the game was originally targeted to be and what it is now. 100% recommend people to play it for story, 100% would tell them to play another MMO if they wanted an actual MMO.
it has always been a Bioware RPG with Multiplayer. However with that being said they have always had a good amount of Raids. The raid are also some of the best I have played out of any MMO. Some really cool and innovative boss fights.
Yeah storywise it's STILL these best MMO it's better at hiding the typical "gather this and kill that" that other MMO's do and make you just skip things. The whole "Dread War" Arc is amazing imo
Idk about solid single-player game. Combat is just too bad because it's mmo, wow gameplay ends up being enjoyable most of the time because it's multiplayer and when you combine classes in certain encounters it becomes fun. But for singleplayer it's blank and boring, I was enjoying KotOR 1-2 gameplay more than SWToR gameplay, but at the same time love gameplay (of old versions) of wow more than KotOR. So overall I would say that SWToR is decent youtube story to watch experience.
Here we are... Almost at the end of 2019, and content is still being released for the game.
@@elivai you have no idea what you talking about. I mean have you ever even tried that game? Constant new updates tons of people still playing ye this game is definetly "dead".
@@Arganith don't worry, WoW has been dying for 15 years according to some.
@@elivai Well clearly you haven't cause you don't know what you talking about.
@@0Sicarii0 True
@@elivai EA announced that swtor has brought in over 1billion dollars over its time and since the new movie is coming out, you can bet there will be even more loads of people.
Almost 2020 and i just STARTED playing.....why did i wait so long loving how well the story missions are deveolped.....and actually voice acted....feels like you are actually part of the story not just here go do this and kill this guy and pick 10 of these....i mean sure those quests are in there but ive just only done story/class quests and im almost lvl 40 after a few days lol
I just want what everyone else wants. A modern graphics, d20 system like kotor, and a vast multi job/class game like the OG SWG.
Exf'ing actly
Honestly? Yeah. I never had the chance to play Galaxies until about 2 years ago, and maybe if I had been able to play it when it was "new", I could have learned to enjoy it. But as the remnants of it are? I just couldn't. I LOVE the idea. To essentially play a game where you live in the SW universe. Whatever kind of experience you want. Sure it sounds ridiculous to some to say "Dude, sometimes I just want to live a simple life on a moisture farm on Tatooine." but look at how games like freakin' Stardew Valley have performed. Or you can do the big, bombastic galaxy important things like being a Jedi Master, teaching an apprentice and going on big diplomatic or dangerous missions, etc. The potential for this is there. If they could only manage to pull it off, take the concept of Galaxies, perfect it, have the story content be there for it, and by the FORCE, allow the damn game to live on after the inevitable official shutdown.
I know there's a lot to be said about people "wasting their lives away" with games like WoW and others. But genuinely, I'd live and breathe this hypothetical holy grail of a game. Could you imagine if it got to the point that WoW did? Where people out there legitimately earned a sustainable (or nearly sustainable) income from just playing the game and selling their loot or their services to assist? People talk about the "American Dream", and say stable job, husband and wife, two kids, modest home and reliable car; to hell with that, what I just described, now THAT'S the American Dream to me. (Not a life goal, mind you, though that'd be amazing, ngl.) Anyway, enough of this rambling mess. Point is I agree lol.
You don't speak for everyone . I liked SWTOR just fine as it was - before the F2P changes screwed it.
@@adgato75 And what exactly were those changes and how did they ruin it?
@@magustobias8827 that’s what I always wonder when people say things like this 🤔 I’m inclined to be open minded and see if it might help my decision playing/returning to a game...but most of the time it’s just incredibly biased bs lol
I played it as a single player game coming back whenever a expansion came. Tbh. it should be a single player game from the start...
Now this is not a knock on the game or it's players but I used to really enjoy the competitive online gaming but I'm old and I'm tired of the toxicity. I just want to play in the SWTOR universe so now I find myself playing KoTOR one and two. The problem is how many ways can you play the two games?
I agree it should have been single player, I Hope BioWare eventually does make a single player Star Wars game like Mass effect and the original Kotors for current gen too not just PC. All I have on PS4 is battlefront 1&2 haha I need more Star Wars games for it.
@@Dcuniversefan Or perhaps MMOs require too much maintainance to be profitable; except for a few companies like WOW. A single player game with multiplayer optional is less of a headache to maintain; and maybe more profitable.
Tnn Dll I would agree with that.
If anything, that's kept the game afloat. End of 2018, a new SWTOR expansion was just released and still it retains it's quirky charm that I keep coming back to.
It's a real shame how they ignored a lot of the world building and character development done in KotoR 2.
KotoR 2 made Revan a much more interesting character. And they just threw it away.
In other words BioFail wasn't happy that Obsidian, the actual masters of RPGs did a much better job.
Didn't they kill the Exile (KoToR 2 pc) offscreen? I think I remember an npc casually mentioning it like it meant nothing. I would say casually killing the big hero off is a big slap in the face but at least she, I think the canon is female, didn't become a crazy hobo living in a cave like Revan.
Wasn't it Drew Karpyshyn who killed her in his book ''Revan something something'' when SWTOR came out? And he's basically biofail employee.
the Exile is in ToR she is the force ghost in the flash points leading up to freeing Revan.
Daniel Maxton It was simply called "Revan" actually, and yeah Meetra did die in it. In a really stupid way too.
never heard anyone call it SW-Tor before lol Its always been SWTOR
Mark Findlay But how is it pronounced? I always pronounced it “Swoh Tor”
Yes!! Swotor is how I always pronounced it as well, at least I know I'm not crazy
Glacier Heart I always pronounced Swa-Tor
@@donnycage i said it like that because it rhymes with KOTOR's pronunciation, lol.
@@christopherjones5700 ah I never thought of it like that. Makes sense on why that sounded natural to me. So used to hearing "kotor"
Ughh so agree with the space combat. SWG jump to light speed was an amazing expansion, and the space combat was an entire game on it's own. Hated the on rails combat in swtor.
Just cannot get into space combat - it seems misplaced in an mmo which is about character development and story/choices. I only ever used JTL for better travel between planets in SWG also.
I originally saw this title and was like, "Pft, what are you talking about?" But after watching this video, I changed my tune. You definitely put a lot of work and research into this topic. Also, I really like how you explained your statements in the end of the video and really help to put things into perspective. What a pity for SWTOR though. I loved it, but as you said, I loved it while playing by myself. Anyway, great stuff, dude! Really enjoyed it.
+stealthyshiroean thank you. I probably would say it's the greatest compliment for somebody to say that they disagree with me and then after watching the video they support my argument due to the way I presented it.
you leave Paul F. Thompkins alone! :)
I had the exact same realization. The research was well done and presented in a coherent, understandable, non-bias way.
If SWTOR never existed, then SWG JUST MIGHT BE STILL ALIVE.
How to murder a game: Let EA be the publisher.
Paul Karyakos yup.
100%, EA is such a bad influence on gaming
EA made Dead Space they are no totally bad. EA redwood shores made the first Deadspace then Redwood shores changed its name to Visceral.
EA needs to revamp their entire business model. They buy developing companies that need more money, like Bioware, who are willing to merger to be able to do the high quality games they are known for even better. The EA limits the fuck out of what the developers can put into their games, rushes them to put out content fast, forcing the developers to use cut & paste in a lot of their areas, the very things gamers hate. They are greedy, and while I GET that a business is intended to make money, doing so by running games (the product) into the ground is not the way to do it.
I can see it now.
Subscription based.
$10 to make a character.
Level cap at level 10 until you pay to progress.
Spec points can be bought through an in game store.
Day 1 expansion which is actually just the other half of the base game.
Bans anyone going 10-0 in pvp because it’s “suspicious.”
Costs money to enter raids.
Sith Agent was the class I wasn't sure about before I played the game... it turned out to be the best story arch in the game! Alongside Sith Warrior. Which is intriguing that a very unorthodox class came out to be fantastic espionage, almost hitman-esque story granting player a look into depth of politics, conspiracies and all the machinations behind the 'Game of Thrones' so to speak... Whereas Sith Warrior turned out to be this fantastic 'chosen one' scenario of a character who is supposed to be that relentless force of destruction embarking on spiritual journey, discovering the true connection to raw force and how you become it's living avatar, and even Emperor's Wrath... wow.
Meanwhile almost all other classes were... eeeh... Worst was the Soldier and Jedi Knight... predictable and going down the checklist of tropes.
I agree with the imperal agent storyline and sith warrior storyline both were really good ,I also to an extent loved the sith inqisitor storyline the rest were okay at least on the empire side they were, I however,was not super fond of any of the republic storylines. they all seemed pretty generic to me espically the jedi knight one.
To be fair, I would have been disappointed if the Jedi Knight story wasn't full of tropes... Its what JK's are.
I liked the 1st arc of the troopers story line. Getting revenge on your squad mates who betrayed you while building a new squad was hella cool. The arc after was a boring stock stop the super weapon/doomday device story that was hugely disappointing.
Indeed, but so was Sith Warrior, and the ending was quite a thing, you know... it's like discovering that the big dumb brute was the evil mastermind in a Bond Movie kind of thing :P JK would have been quite ok if they've given us some twist at the end, some genuine surprise. Well, it just wasn't there, sadly.
Oh yeah, 1'st arc was quite nice, the comrades going rogue due to some event that changed them. That's what kept me playing innitially. I hoped for something along the lines of: discovering what caused them to abandon post, and have your loyalty challenged. I almost thought, that the 1st act would lead to Spec Ops: The Line kind of dilema, or some heavy Kojima shit, 'Soldiers without borders' etc. Which would have been awesome. But, as you said... doomsday device scenario... and after the Force Awakens, this idea became even more outdated and predictable...
SWTOR is personally my favorite MMO to date and I jump back in 2-3 times per year just to replay a class, expansion or new content. Definitely some solid points in this video for sure and a great overview of the game. Steam release and Mandalorian has really brought a resurgence of players too.
glad you're enjoying the game man!
SWTOR fanboy here. I saw the title of this vid and had assumed this would be 47 minutes of subjective drivel. I ended up watching the whole thing and, to my pleasant surprise, found everything you mentioned on point.
As a guild officer, it’s part of my responsibility to find ways to keep our guildies entertained. It’s difficult, but we make do with what we have. We all still really enjoy the game, but at the same time, know that it’s on its last legs and will enjoy it for as long as we can.
Great work on this video, man! I hope to run into you online in the next (actual) SW MMO. :)
30 minutes into the video and there's not a single mention of how the developers had removed the unsubscribe button from their website on the day before all the first months of subscriptions rolled over forcing players to pay for a 2nd month.
I've heard stories of EA doing that with top titles on day after release or something. From what I heard, to get your refund, you'd have to write to them etc and pottentially lose the right for refund due to waiting times.
wow u had to pay 20 instead of 10 bucks oh god lol. I swear people are broke as shit or something to bitch about a one time 10 bucks lol
Wow you're dumb as fuck. Do you honestly not see the problem with essentially trying to rob people of money they didn't want to spend? We're all glad your internet wallet is so big that you can set ten dollars on fire just to watch it burn, but a lot of people actually have a problem with being cheated out of any amount of money, as crazy as that may sound.
It doesnt sound like they paid 20, it sounds like they paid 10 and then EA robbed them of 10. I don't give a fuck if its a single penny if you take it from through some bullshit like this I would be pissed.
lol, its actually a matter of consumer rights, IE the right to unsubscribe from a subscription service if that offer has been extended, the only way you ever need to pay an unsub fee is if its a contract with a phone company or similar
my main problem was the engine and the overall MMO feel. The engine was crap and everything felt floaty without physics and the MMO grind killed the story for me as in the mist of grinding, i would forget where the hell i was story wise. This happens many times in different MMOs for me like in GW2, but that game's core gameplay was more fun and that's why I still play it. SWTOR was just a grind fest unless you paid and it was terrible to play without a sub. However, I do have the commend the game for the amazing looking scenery from the metropolis of Coruscant to the spawling fields of Alderaan. It was just gorgeous to look at. And my companions were fun for a bit i guess. The main thing that kept me playing was the Star Wars universe. If it was any other, I would have quit long ago.
depends when you played it. I finished the main story-lines with just f2p (not even preferred) in later patches where there was no grind whatsoever: just do your own story and the planet's story (which in my opinion just enriched your own story most of the time) and you're good. This wasn't the case in the beginning, but the moment expansions came out, it was very easy to do this and there was no grind required.
True the grind....thats why I only played this during the double xp weeks
pl4free the side quests were the grind. They were tedious and you had to do them to stay leveled. The side quests were so bad that it made me quit for a while. Now whenever I return I just sub to skip all that crap and focus on the main story. Not that I play anymore.
I hated the fact that you killed the leader of a civil war army stopping the war, then you get out on the planets surface and the civil war is still going on, it ruined the immersion the came could have been so awesome if it had been single player and I expect i would have spend hundreds of dollars on such a game.
SO TRUE !
As someone who is playing this game, with a subscription while in in university, this game works great for single player, but also multiplayer content works fine, maybe as I get into late game players will dwindle but I see enough level 75's that I imagine that won't be a problem
Its a great game, just not a great MMORPG. It has great stories, great characters and decent game play, just not very good multiplayer. The only problem that I have with the story lines is how easy they have made everything, its like permanent easy mode till you get to end game ops.
Totally agree.
Yeah in one of the Sith storylines as a new recruit you have to kill your instructor to prove your general sithiness. I was like, oh man, my instructor? I'm just a newbie, without even a master, how could I challenge a high level Sith? And the fight was just like killing any other random mob. Such a disappointment. At least the heroic missions were challenging, but the story quests could all be completed without using more than your basic attack. Lame :(
It wasn't like that on release, in fact it was a bit too hard in places. If you didn't have good gear and knowledge of your skills and rotations you died. Now... you can face roll through the whole darn game. If you have a decent level with your comp you can easily do all 2+ heroics and most 4+ ones as well....till endgame, then it suddenly matters if you are good or not. I miss how it was a year or 2 ago..
...I almost forgot.. @CasualTS .. *SPOILERS!!* ;-)
That's a perk of an mmo, making the levelling content easy so people can access to endgame without spending 200+ hours in levelling... I agree it is a problem in swtor, and the video talked about it a lot.
I'm surprised you didn't mention the extremely bad PR involved here. Like when Bioware REMOVED the button to cancel your subscription when their numbers started sinking and banned people who circumvented it, the large amount of silenced criticisms and the overall behavior of staff that ultimately got the Bioware forums shut down to save face. It was a very special time to be on the internet and I'm glad this one is something I was around to witness.
------
End of rine and so on.
Redblue yeah, the new sub system kinda sucks. But cancelling a subscription is perfectly possible.
I don't think you read my post. Initially when their sub count started dropping, before it was free to play, Bioware intentionally removed the button to cancel your subscription from their site and banned people from their forums who bypassed their attempt at stopping people from leaving.
I personally love this game. I just started. I'm free-to-play and im late because i just got a PC. however i respect your opinions and i see what you present.
Edit: Bioware used to be so great :(
When you mean by used. I believe you mean before they had fallen by the hand of Evil Arts
Greetings. The year is 2021, Old Republic is still available for download. As a huge Star Wars fan and I guy who plays mainly single player games, this game sounds AWESOME!!! I’m looking forward to going through these storylines and completing quests as I prepare for the KOTOR Remake. Most content solo-able: YES! Heavy story focus: YES! Free-to-Play: YES!!!
Those reasons you mention at the end sound like a single player RPG
@@nerdSlayerstudioss I personally like the idea of a single player games with a side of MMO
This game is still one of my favorite MMOs, I haven't played it in ages though due to how greedy it has been. Despite all of its problems though, it will always have a place in my heart.
Who's still playing SWTOR in 2019?
I am. It is much improved. Wish it launched like this, but i am totally addicted. Hoping the next expansion brings people back cause the game is much better now.
Also, yes, the "death of" is greatly exaggerated. It seems to be bringing people back with Jedi under siege (wich is what brought me back as well).
Miguel Mota i started playing this week as a sith marauder and i love the game :) only fear of mine is that the game will soon die..
@@NemXX2 yeah i'm not sure where the whole it's dying thing comes from as it is constantly updating with huge updates, including new story, gameplay changes, new worlds, new strongholds, loads of new items, new characters and new races, etc, i don't see why a dying game would put that much investment into a dying game, yeah the population is less than it used to be but it does get new players and has a stable number of staying players and makes enough money to justify the consitant full updates.
@@charlestownsend9280 im a regular player, but im sorry to say the decrease in recurring players says its dying its sad as i want it to thrive too, so i can have active warzones 8v8 no matter the time of day. Also just because a business invests money into something doesn't mean its doing well they may be trying to jump start it again and hopefully attract new and old members. Hopefully this isnt a last resort they are using to try to bring back a bigger player base hopefully they never give up and keep bringing us new content.
I'm looking forward to the new content next month with the return of Kira and Scourge.
I would say the game is still going strong as they wouldn't bring out new content if they felt players were leaving.
Considering the new content also is said to include updates to improve the game would indicate EA still has faith in it otherwise they would have just done another new story.
Also the new content was meant to come out this month but they pushed it back to October to fine tune afew things clearly indicates a renewed effort rather than a final hurrah before calling it quits as tying things up would take less effort than a revamp.
I just recently got into this game with a couple of my friends, and I have to say I am quite enjoying it. Your points on why the game is a shell of what it once was (playerbase wise) are all very well researched and documented. On this note, I agree with you. However, I do not consider this game to be a failure. SWTOR has been online for many, many years and has made a huge amount of money. Not every game that dies is a failure.
Some day, WoW will shut down. Will it be considered a failure simply because the servers are no longer active, regardless of how long they were up and how much money they made?
You make a good point, actually. Maybe he means that it failed as an MMORPG, and not as a game.
MrStrikecentral wow will never be considered a failure.
It’s a really sobering thought eh… never occurred to me that WoW will shut down someday… even WoW huh
Hopefully to get the RTS genre back...
I really don't think WoW will ever shutdown. Look at all even much older MMOs that are still up and running. Everquest and Runescape not only they are still alive but keep getting updated.
First updates needs to stop. At this point there is still huge team making new content. They can then reduce servers to just few and BAM! All they have to do is pay for few servers and that's it.
It does not make sense to me why should they ever completely erase all their work. They won't do it.
Hell they even still maintain Diablo 1 servers...
If bunch of random people on internet can run private server there is no way Blizzard cannot run one as well no matter how bad playercount will be. Especially if alternative would be to just flush over decade of developement to dain.
Everytime I found video like this, it always puts tears in my eyes. I have the best memories from this game through my life. Mostly beacuse of people. I was part of progression raid group for 4.5 years and it was just biggest fun ever. We kinda all get to know each other, were having nice conversations, doing content together (Mostly Operations ofc) and as it goes I even have few friends from there in real life and we visit each other. Then it happened no MMO content...it was what we did for the whole time and we enjoyed it the most...the operations itself was much better than raids in any other MMORPG. So where there was none new, the guildmates started departing to other games, me too. So SWTOR being kinda killed in 2017 is very true and I would even go back to 2016 that was the pinnacle of dev bullshit and the biggest lie for us raiders escalated...
It should have been a single player kotor game to begin with, that is its main problem.
I wanted a coop rpg and thats what I got, the error here is calling the game a MMO. its not a mmo, its never been a mmo, its a coop rpg.
Its a fucking online only game with a "massive" population and a subscription option. If you think this is a coop rpg you are deluded.
where is the massive? you can max be 130 players in a instance before it clones into a #number, you can not have any sort of massive battles, there is no massive crafting, no massive anything really, SWG was massive.
I guess the term MMO has changed definition over time, when I started playing mmo's it was Ultima Online back in 1996, back then mmo meant interactive themed sandbox, where the community was the "massive" part and all the interactions it could have with itsel, it was on a massive scale, then during the years they scaled down the massive to more linear and themeparks became the new MMO, after themeparks came swtor with its "story" element making the game even more streamlined, now you have 4 stories on each side of the fence and main story is singleplayer choice only, if you do the planetary content you can do it as a group, a small group, there are some operations for more players but I would hardly call them massive. =) The word MMO has lost all meaning to me so, sorry for this discussion that you clearly are not willing to have =)
You have no idea what you are talking about, run away from the truth i guess.
explain yourself
Can we get a Death of a game Lawbreakers?
something must first be alive in order to die
It lasted like a week before dying and I'd say the actual reason behind everything is quite interesting if you look into it like how they changed it from being more hardcore to the actual Overwatch Clone people claimed it to be during the free weekend and at the release of patch 1.4 and how the devs swear it'll never ever go F2P and actually have shut down people talking about the player base on their forums and even locked the main steam forums so only people who own the game can talk in them while even currently ignoring the player base problem and having the game up on the main steam page at least one or two days that the Steam Sale has been running this year. In short its a giant mess that should be entertaining to talk about and that isn't even going into how insane some of the fans are and how they all seem to be close friends with the devs stating the game isn't dead and trying to convince people that it isn't dead going as far as to outright lie to people about it back when the forums weren't locked off to only owners and had many people asking if they should buy it or not due to how low the player count is.
What killed the game
Bad marketing and patch 1.3
You mean Patch 1.4? The one that introduced Health Regen and raised all health pools making pretty much every class a tank?
kagatoASUKA really? I guess so I haven't touched the game in months even on ps4 it's dead
As someone who's played probably 300+days of SWTOR I can honestly say it was a sad uphill struggle to even log on sometimes. It became clear most fans of SWTOR really just wanted a KOTOR 3 where as the minority of us wanted a WOW in space painted in a SW theme. I absolutely love the KOTOR series but I also wanted a real SW:MMO experience which SWTOR never fully felt that engaged enough until SOR came out.
SOR though a pretty lame story to bring back and kill Reven off...again...(SPOILER...lol) definitely gave us the hardest amount of content to date. To this day I still wish I could have been part of a group to take down HM Reven however it became harder to maintain an active guild willing to put in the work. PUGing in SWTOR was a mess, hours spamming in chat only to have to teach this guy not only how the fight works but at closer inspections didn't even know how to spec/manage their class. SWOTR's story content was too easy, and first time players get to have fun, until that honeymoon phase is over and they join the MMO part of the game which the game never did a good job at transitioning players.
As for the combat system, I hear this complaint a lot and honestly I feel like it's a very small voice in the community given WOW's combat which SWTOR borrows heavily from, was nearly identical even down to the naming of the abilities like Sunder and Retaliation to name a few or else tell me what Action combat MMO has more subs than the classic system of waiting on cd's? Overall SWTOR was a sad disappointed that I kept waiting for it to be good, early raiding though a mess was probably the best years I had with the game. Came back during SOR only to be angry we could never beat HM Reven due to maintaining a Roster, and played through KOTFE/KOTET begrudgingly given it was clear these two expansions combined could have been KOTOR 3 instead, since you got endgame gear just for gaining xp for "all" sources including replaying the story.
Is SWOTR dead, it was dead for a long time to me, but I was also in denial cause I love the universe of SW, and having played WOW off and on for 12yrs it was a vacation game for me between major raiding patches. I will say SWOTR on a positive has the best single player leveling experience of any MMO to date, nothing I ever played was more engaging playing to the very strengths of a BW:RPG.
Yes! Well put and I agree. WoW in Star Wars... I would pay a reasonable monthly sub for this.
Valkris84KT in defense of the pugs, the game itself never really teams you how to rotate your abilities for the various classes, there are few guilds that will take a newbie and show them the ropes, but there is no incentive for the game itself to run that type of tutorials. the tutorials they do have tell you nothing along that line.
I have 320 days played across all my chars and Im with you. I really appreciated the story universe in the game. It is truly fantastic, but I really wanted Swtor to be WoW with a Star Wars theme. It was kinda until Kotfe and Kotet in my opinion. I loved the game 2011-2015 and it will always be a very rememberable time of my life.
SWTOR would fare better if it was somekind of action-shooter-mmorpg. Less stupid wow skills (we have so many unimaginative clones as it is ) and more fun and movement in gameplay. The game was a cashgrab after the prequels, which they borrowed heavilly on artwork inspiration, which seemed odd as it was supposed to be taking place many time before the movies events.
@Mercb3ast, That's just it I always hear people say the same thing about WOW or the WOWification of the MMO genre. At my current age of 33 I've been playing MMOs since Dark Age of Camelot back than on a 56k dial up modem. Noone paying a monthly subscription isn't looking for the next big MMO, hell most people just want a consistent concept, drop and go gameplay, and a robust endgame. WOW delivers despite my own negative criticism of the game these past 14yrs but honestly there are very few games that can pull that off. SWTOR never went full WOW, sure in the beginning skill trees, character progression, combat, and loot definitely displayed that familiar feel to WOW since the game was being pedistooled by fans as the so called "WOW killer", which in itself should be pretty much an internet urban legend given nothing will kill WOW.
People always talk about wanting something better, indeed I cursed WOWs name plenty of times in forms but always kept coming back. I tried branching out to the more eastern MMOs like Black Desert Online, Aion, Archeage, Blade and Soul, Tera. Played several "WOW inspired" games like Rift, LotRO, SWTOR, GW2, and Wild Star(sad this one never made waves). I even attempted Eve until I realised it's a rich man's MMO. Regardless I searched, level to max in all these games and was immediately reinstalling WOW shortly after because WOW just does endgame better.
Sure I can create hentai babes in just about every Eastern MMO with a purchasable school girl outfit from a cash shop for the most immersion breaking gameplay as my vixian avatar is slaying dragons with a visible whale tale and tramp stamp "but the combat is amazing", one might say. Build a farm with cattle next to my homestead all while protecting my land from thieves in open world PVP sounds fun till you lose all your shit. Eve with it's massive player economy often being used today in real world economic classes, in game corporations, factions, and full on galactic dominance completely player driven feels more like a CEO simulator. These examples are just a few of what people tote as "innovation" but again WOW always delivers in the endgame with it's dated style, combat, character creation, loot, 100+ color swaps, and like you said it's just a rip off of EQ, yet it garders more subs than any other game.
Do people truly want innovation? All the games I listed above do 1/2 things better than WOW ever could and yet as a package WOWs current state offers more than any other game of its genre which bothers me considering I also rode many hype trains straight into the brick wall of cynicism when I final realized I just wanted more WOW in different colors, themes, and backgrounds.
2023 the dev team is now basically just a *skeleton crew* the others are on the new DA & ME games.
Edit update : Now Bioware dropped the development to Broadsword
This video makes me want to take up the game again. Especially since he mentioned how good the imperial agent and other imperial storyline is. I haven't actually played those. I kind of want to play before the game closes down.
My main problem with doing that is the MMO qualities of filler quests and time sinks. I just want the story without the fetch quests and other time sinks. Can someone tell me if this is possible in the current state of the game?
If you are a subscriber playing only the class story is possible because they are really easy.
Wait for the double xp events they happen every now and then, and you can preatty much only do the story mission even as a f2p player
Honestly you don't need to be a sub to play through every class storyline without doing extra stuff. Especially if you're using XP boosts, which you can combine with legacy purchases to increase the amount of XP gained from class quests (these are purchases that can be made with in game credits).
As far as the game 'closing down' goes, don't listen to this dude. He made this video a year ago and the game hasn't come close to shutting down; in fact, they're still expanding the content.
I want to take it up again as well. I did watch some of the story lines on TH-cam however.
its so dead they just announced another expansion for 2019... Always been & still is an excellent game in 2019 ;-)
I think this is the first death of a game that made me want to actually try the game for myself.
I played this and juat got into Star Wars Galaxies, and honestly (in my humble opinion) I prefer Galaxies as a MMORPG.
4 years later and we're still getting a new xpack this holiday. Glad to see the "ending of development" never happened, and that the game mostly stabilized.
yup seems to be growing a lot this year after WoW's collapse.
@@stoves5877 bout time it gets some damn recognition.. maybe i should dust off my old marauder
@@Abyssiondubs i rerolled new characters and am loving the hell out of the class stories again. It's been years since i've played them and they feel completely new to me.
It's a boring badly designed game. Played it launch for the story, but the story sucked. What a waste of time.
@@informitas0117 and here you are talking about it 10 years later. It's been living rent free in your head
Played this game since pre launch on and off. most recently played endgame a week ago. Queued for Flashpoints (group pve) and was getting into groups every 1 to 3 mins. I couldn't even sort my loot out between matches because it was ready too quickly to go again. Now we have Discord, arranging the higher group content for Operations is even easier. This game is nowhere near dead. Plenty of players all the time at hubs. In fact, the game has more content and players now than when this video was released, so if anything, the game now has more life than 2 years ago. Thank you steam and discord.
@Sipping tea indicates not giving a fuck Thank you for the reply. I did listen to the end more than once over the years. The game has definitely not declined in active players since the vid was first made. Not guessing or reading charts, but actually played the game and experienced chat and waiting times for group content. Have you played it recently?
@Leon's European island adventure I wouldn't say the game has more players than ever either. In fact I said "more life than 2 years ago" when the vid was made, demonstrating it was not dying.
@Leon's European island adventure Thank you for your reply. Mine is at the top. The game is called dead, yet I have played it as recently as 2 weeks ago, lots of players at hub, very active GTN (in game market), fast queues for PUG content. I would call the game dead while playing but by the time I typed the words, my match was ready.
@Leon's European island adventure I will respectfully agree to disagree. I acknowledge Nerdslayer's definition but the reality is 1) a basic google search of SWTOR population in 2020 is estimated 5 to 8 million subs, rated 13th out of 129 MMOs. You can use any words you like to describe it. Have you even logged into the game and played or are you just reading about the game? What matters more than anyone's video or definition or google stat is that I have played the game recently and not encountered an issue with lack of players.
@Leon's European island adventure I fully respect your opinion whether I agree with it or not. May the Force be with us all.
20:15 I think the move toward single-player was fine because that's how I'd been playing SWTOR for a few years at that point. My problem with the expansions (KotFE in particular) was that it homogenized the class stories and companions, two main selling points of SWTOR. Your class didn't matter in terms of the story anymore. In KotFE we were separated from companions who had played pivotal roles in our story previously (and some companions that had even been important in the Emperor's own story never returned by the end). Even when we did reunite with a returning companion, the most we got was 30 seconds of dialogue to acknowledge we knew each other. KotFE also restricts your choice of companion during story content, but that barely even matters because it made the differences between the companions negligible. Companions became entirely aesthetic choices and that's honestly a shame because they had been such a unique thing for an MMO.
Even if the overall story was a strong one, it would still feel pretty empty. It wasn't a strong one, though. It wasn't even a good one. It would be generous to call it mediocre.
I haven't played it in a year or 2 but hearing that they've doubled down on story content makes me want to play again actually...shame about the companions though. It was a pretty unique system and helped offset the weakness of whatever spec you were.
Well companions don't really matter any more. Any companion is as good as any other, only real difference is if you want ranged or melee. All companions can heal, dps or tank your choice, and they all perform the same. Nice thing is that you no longer have to farm gear for them like you did at launch. They don't need gear at all.
I've put a couple of hundred hours in, and still haven't finished the latest expansion. I don't ever repeat missions, so i would say there's quite a bit of content in the game, even if alot of it is filler or rinse and repeat.
It's not the thousands of hours others do in MMO's, but i'm not a repeat/grind fan anyway.
The only two tihngs i wasn't a fan of was the cartoony graphic style, and the fact that its existence pretty much kills any chance of a KOTOR3, which i would prefer.
mepm couldn't agree more
Because you suck. Expansions and story are hardly worth a challenge
I haven't even started on the big Expansions like Knights of the fallen empire. Why? I haven't finished the stories for the classes. They're just really good. Imperial Agent was my favorite so far.
lmao
Unfortunately this is an mmo. The joy of playing an mmo is not the campaign/story or solo content. But rather accomplishing something with other players. Developing great relationships with others and striving to achieve something together. That is what mmos are about and i have never ever heard anyone who plays this game talk about raiding accomplishments or memorable boss fights. They only talk about how good the story is. But the story is not what makes an mmo.
I was playing SWTOR from the start and enjoyed hell out of it. ( Sith Warrior for life )
Anyway, you know how i treated that game? Not like an mmo, but as coop-rpg. That helped a LOT. Since I really dont like wow or themepark mmos whatsoever, since im more into open world social based PVP mmos, hm examples would be more like Lineage 2, EVE Online, Early stages of Archeage.( and lets be honest, we all know from who they " inspired " while creating SWTOR...khm,khm wow ) , so I mentality treated SWTOR as coop game and that helped to truly enjoy it.
Up to this day i still think SWTOR is crappy mmorpg but good coop-single RPG.
Will they EVER make a starwars cg film or series using the animation and characters from these work of art trailers? Seriously, the one with the twins had a far greater emotional punch than anything made since Revenge of the Sith!
"Moved Towards a more RNG progression system."
Hmmmmmm...
*looks at Battle for Azeroth*
Witch Hunter Tyrus at least it’s (probably) going to get fixed soon with the new patch and Shadowlands
The storyline-quests and missions in SWTOR are brilliant and nice to play, I played all classes, great fun!
But the atmosphere, crafting system and skill/profession system of SWG are so unique, unmatched and so uncanny, no other MMO has reached that level of fascination for me.
After mastering 28 professions-trees in SWG, I've got a blue screen and the permission to play another, special "profession".., insider know what I mean.
Never had that feeling in an MMO since that moment.
Great job btw. N.S.
Would be great if you could do an episode on Marvel Heroes. This was a great episode!
Regardless, I'd like to see him cover why because unlike Avengers Alliance and War of Heroes, there was a bunch of bullshit behind the scenes that killed Marvel Heroes.
Indeed and Disney yanked the license because Gazillion couldn't clean up its act . Now EA has irritated Disney with the bad press from Battlefront II .
Anyone remember Superhero Squad online? No, just me?
As someone who was there at launch.. and came back in December 2019 i can say a few things about the game.. but it all boils down to a couple things..
The game is still running.. it is like any other game in that while not perfect, it certainly has player support even this far into it..
Unlike most it ALSO has new content VERY regularly.
Not only not dead, but has better stories, better cosmetics, and an updated current model for making a very steady income.
Not only a heavy endgame content game now, its continued high population servers does encourage BOTH multiplay, AND single play.
Offering more choices of gameplay style isnt a flaw, its an advantage.
With 19 lev75, itemlevel 306 (max level, max itemlevel) characters, a good guild and good friends im completely satisfied.
I actually started playing this game for the first time recently, and I've been loving it. Been playing it almost every day since.
This is the only MMO I play consistently. I'm not playing it right now, but I'll get back on it pretty soon. It's the only game where the grinding is pretty much the story. It's awesome.
Nice! What class? :o
@@OrchardFox Sith Warrior. The Immortal Juggernaut.
@@OrchardFox I play as a trooper vanguard. It's a lot of fun imo.
@Weilan it depends on personal preference. If you like more a more story heavy experience swtor is better. If you want a more mmo heavy experience swg is better.
I played since open Beta, I watched the population take extreme drop at the point when they Level capped the planets. At that point my entire guild dropped subs and quit the game. Our guild leader stayed the longest at 1 year after we all left. This was the best MMORPG i had found in a long time. I really miss what the game was before the micro transactions and all the 'NEW' content.... Thanks for the video it was a good watch!
this video was made years ago and this game STILL isn't dead.
Not even close
It's the channel that's dead.
Here's a really good life pro tip
**watch the vid before commenting**
I find that the people and the creator of the video, are still discussing the quality of this game today nearly 4 years after the videos release, proves that the game does have some kind of alluring quality to it that will always bring people back for more whether they dislike or not.
In the video, I literally said it's one of the best star wars games and one of my favorite games...I just also say it's not an MMO anymore, and a shit one at that.
This video made me want to start playing it again.
Dude, your laugh when you mentioned Ilum towards the end just about 100% nailed my entire experience with it. Thank you.
my favorite class story has to be the sith warrior and imperial agent class story
I'm doing the Sith Warrior now, will try and play through all story classes as I finishing KOTOR1 and 2 just isn't as much fun anymore. I played healer Bounty Hunter originally with friends which was awesome, but when they stopped playing the Bounty Hunter class seem more like addon playthrough than a main story. Sith Warrior feels more like Kotor, though can't wait to play through the non force classes as well, even bounty hunter again. The graphics and voice acting is so sweet and the gameplay is fluent.
Earthworm Jim yup I can understand that
Agreed, I also liked the Jedi Knight story-line, kind of felt like a poor man's KOTOR 3.
i can understand that
Been having fun playing the game for free recently. The class stories are worth playing through for in my opinion, some really good stuff from BioWare.
this video made me install and buy a sub to this game, thanks
+Tokanova good you'll really enjoy the story of the game
I’m gonna get it again too.
After you finish the story for your character the game just runs out of steam. I played from hutt cartel expac till before revan. The 50+ content was tedious and really unfun too.
The new expansions are supposedly very good.
Too bad they're not.
Fuck EVERYTHING EA did after the shadow of revan, they've already ruined my favorite character in the EU and now they've completely destroyed the few things that made swtor decent. Knights of the fallen empire and the eternal throne are fucking disasters.
IT would have been mor fun if each class got more of a personal story arc expanding through the expansions. Instead of just everyclass gets the same story and the only different thing you can do is kill or save this person. Or just get the companions back. Like the Jedi Knight doesnt get Kira Carsen back in the story. And guess who I romanced as a Jedi Sentinel..
I felt the same.had a free acc and got to level 50 and felt the opperations or whatever they were called were shitty
Not really.. after the server merge I find alot of people talking abotu them on the fleet and the two brothers armor sells for alot, I personally enjoy the story, (I hate thepart when your not doing the story missions and u still loose ur comps tho)
To be fair though. Even though they missed the chance to keep everyone happy and continue the Kotor series (notswtor) by continuing the single player games and doing it like Mass effect. I don't want a new Kotor game with today's bioware after what happened with andromeda and anthem
Me, at the beginning of the video: "'DEATH of a game'? Old Republic's still up and running!"
2 years later...still releasing new content and server population is doing just fine. LOL.
and wz / arena / op are still poorly optimized and "new" content is build around story only, what a world ! xDDD
they just had another server consolidation...you do realize, that they had over 120 FULL servers at launch, right?
this is not "fine"...this is surviving
@@kimrasmussen7188 Just? You mean, years ago?
Also, original servers were tiny. Nobody denies that at launch there were many more people, that's how it always is with every single game, duh. But those 120 servers were like 15-20 current ones, at BEST.
Lol what content? Loot boxes and a 1.5 hour low budget story isnt exactly looking too good for the game
@@jonathanchow993 yea, the zones look great, but the gameplay is pretty bad.
it was expected, since theyre spending most of the resources to to save anthem
now they have 2 dying games instead
I can't say that it has a bad story, but any hardcore KOTOR fan will tell you, that it is not KOTOR 3. You just do not get this level of writing that is present espetialy in KOTOR 2.
Completely agree
Agreed
For me as a world first raider, back at the release of SWTOR, i can only say that my guild and my friends all dumped the game after a couple of months because of only 2 reasons!
1. Almost no content, even months after release with nearly nothing to do in the meantime!
2. Bug's and bug's and bug's especially in the first raid at the release (OMG i have vietnam flashbacks with the first boss or SOA the last boss xD)
"worldfirst" ...
delusional
I must give them, that they made one of the more fun pvp battlegrounds i have tried, "Hutball" basically a pvp battleground where you kill each other while trying to play rugby and score goals on the other team, was absolutely hilarious, you could throw passes and do intercepts and everything.
I know this is an old post... but because I care about the game...
Several of my friends and I played SWTOR from day 1. Things went down hill with the implementation of Free-to-Play. The largest downside was the drastic dumbing down of content for players and making everything solo. Nothing was a challenge, if it ever was. From there the greed/implementation of F2P got worse and with it game play became less and less fun (for us). I would love to return. In a heartbeat, I would. But not as it stands. :/ I miss my Warrior and Sorcerer.
K.R. Ayyelos Highly agree with this comment! It is like they put a huge focus on solo content....for an MMO.
Game lost its appeal after SoR for me, i LOVED trying to down Underlurker on Hard Mode, it was HARD. Now it's a single player with the illusion of being a RPG.
My merc and PT were awesome.. Miss SWTOR
I played SWTOR from launch for about 6 months. During that time period, it was basically just WoW in Spaaaaaace, with Starfox. The combat, the gear, the skills, the way the 2 factions were handled, the PvP, the PvE content, and the entire end game was all just WoW clone stuff. Space combat was just a SNES era Starfox game with much better graphics and a Star Wars paint job. Then there was Ilum. The original version of Ilum was a complete joke. The second version was an absolute trainwreck. (For reference: th-cam.com/video/S5KRtIjO0qQ/w-d-xo.html) The third version (which came in shortly after I left) managed to take it back to just being a complete joke. The blame for the WoW clone issue most likely rests squarely on EA's shoulders, as is the complete lack of any nods to SWG. The Starfox clone issue was most likely the Devs trying to duct tape together something as a result of poor decisions from management. Ilum's on Bioware, since it showed they didn't really know how to make a large scale PvP system. Add in the early problems with the WZ's, with people bailing out early, and ignoring the objectives to stand off in the corner of the map gaming the system to farm comms to buy better gear with while the people actually trying to win the matches would get next to nothing, and it shows they weren't much better with the small scale PvP system either.
The irony, however, is that if they would have just used SWG as a blueprint, improved the graphics, and used the combat/skills system and setting from the first KOTOR (when it was using the d20 system), and added a relatively loose overarching storyline, the result would have been a much, much better game. Sure, it was cool to hear famous actors doing the voices, but that's just fluff. Even if they didn't have any voice acting at all, if the game itself was solid then very few people would actually complain about it. The number of races, the number of classes, and the sheer variety of different types of characters you could make in SWG absolutely dwarfed what was offered in SWTOR. And that's before the jedi were introduced. Making SWTOR a massive step backwards in many ways. And I didn't even get to play SWG until years after I left SWTOR, and figured I'd check out SWGEmu. Even missing big chunks of the original SWG and having a tiny playerbase, I found SWGEmu to just be a much more enjoyable experience than SWTOR was.
Fortunately, I left SWTOR before they made it free to play, because nothing kills the enjoyment one can have in a game than a pay to win model. EA should have stuck with making the sports games they were actually good at back in the 90's, and never touched another genre or studio, because they pretty much consistently screw it up while nickle and diming the playerbase into submission. They've managed to make most of their games the exact opposite of fun. Hence why the game was known as TORtanic.
I just joined swtor, after 12 years of world of war craft, so I don't know what the launch version of swtor was like. That being said, the games are completely different to me, swtor has a rpg immersion, and storytelling ability that wow has never possessed. Sure, both have made a lot of the same mistakes over the years, but the game play is night and day different for me. The rest of that was tldr at the moment, so apologies if I missed the point lol.
"I never meant death literally".
Lol. In other words...
"I didn't use the word to mean what it means. I used the word to mean what it doesn't mean."
Did you know there's more than one definition? themoreyouknow
@@nerdSlayerstudioss no. death
/deTH/
noun
1.
the action or fact of dying or being killed; the end of the life of a person or organism
@Leon's European island adventure might want to grow a brain so you understand what the word dead means. If it were dead, nobody would be playing it because the servers would no longer be in operation. So it's not dead, just has a low percentage of people that play it. Just because you want to be lazy and use a phrase, albeit one that is commonly misused, doesn't make it correct, just makes a general percentage of people wrong. Sorry if you think anyone is mad about anything. That is your own interpretation of the situation. I am not mad or happy or anything, just pointing out something that should be simple, but evidently is not. Good luck on your future arguments.
@Leon's European island adventure you're the one playing this childish tit-for-tat. You want to argue about the definition of the word and then get all butthurt because you're wrong. Then proceed to make an ass out of yourself and talk crap to people. Yes, I am crying. So glad you can point these things out.
The only bastion of Star Wars Legends still producing content, it is worthwhile for that reason alone, to see Star Wars in the light it deserves to be in.
I'm still shocked that it's been out for like 12-13 years or something and they have never released a single new class. It's been the same base 4 ones (with minor differences between light/dark side variations) with a few updates to skills throughout it's entire shelf life so far.
Played it in beta and once it officially launched I was a nearly daily player until sometime between 2014-2015. There was some event thing before an expansion launch (iirc) where if you were subbed x amount of time before said launch you would get some western themed cowboy/bounty hunter companion which was the only way to unlock him (think it still is no idea). Being a completely and total sucker for FOMO tactics back then I wanted to unlock him since I had invested so much time and money into the game at that point.
Around that time EA had some sort of "database leak" where people's account names and passwords got posted online and they never emailed people (at least not me) that all of our log-in information was posted online. Next thing I know my ex-boyfriend comes in screaming at me wondering why I spent like 90 dollars on friggin' fifa 15 having never played a single sports video game in my life. Turns out my leaked account information was used by some belland from Brazil. He logged into my account and used my ex-bf's credit card information that was saved to my account to steal a 'gift' for himself using our money.
Once I figured out what had happened by going through my purchase history I got in contact with SWTOR support which claimed they could do nothing and told me to contact EA support which I did, that's when they made me aware of the account information hacking due to zero fault of my own yet was never made aware of the security breach. They begrudgingly after several back and forth messages confirming all log-ins from my account since it's creation were only done in Canada and having one random log-in from Brazil to buy a sports game for another account was of course extremely suspicious.
The real kicker here (if you've bothered to read this far) is after they refunded the money to the stolen credit card they marked it with a black spot the same way they do to a person issuing a charge back. Meaning I could no longer use that credit card with my account anymore and that was literally the only one either of us had (this was before getting my own bank account/visa debit card). Because of that EA support told me I would not be able to get that Cowboy dude unless I used another credit card so I told them "no thank you, I had money stolen from me due to your companies lack of security and you never even had the decency to let me know my account information could be compromised with zero fault of mine".
I told EA support to delete my account entirely (I had only ever used it for SWTOR and DA:Origins) and even though I lost years of unlocks, costumes and time they in the long run lost a customer completely as I will never again give any support either with money or time to another EA product as long as I live.
Thanks for coming to my Ted talk on a 5 year old video.
Purely responding to your first paragraph - releasing a new class would be extremely expensive considering the amount of unique voiceover that would be required (player character - all new and old content, tracking down old voice actors to reprise their roles all these years later, all NPCs within the new class story, unique interactions all existing NPCs have that pertain to your class) and there's no way it would be a sensible return on investment. I don't think an entirely new class was ever on the cards for this reason alone. It's also the reason why class stories never made a return in any of the expansions aside from some unique dialogue with your old companions. They base game class stories were by far the best content (along with warzones and all the operations up until + including Terror From Beyond) but the sheer scale and cost meant that it would never be possible to expand or reproduce these.
They could have definitely added an additional talent tree for each existing advanced spec however. Considering each republic/empire class spec had a mirror, that would make a total of 8 new talent trees which is no different to what Guild Wars 2 released with each expansion.
@@Adam-xp5nm It's EA they have the money for it.
@@lust3390 So? They won't just throw money at something knowing full well it won't be a profitable endeavour. And adding a new class to the game would undoubtedly be a ton of additional work only to make a loss.
Game is very alive today. EA has also approved more budget for the game, most think due to the remake of the original coming out, and the new Old Republic trilogy due out.
More budget so like another content update disguised as an expansion?
@@nerdSlayerstudioss ....all...expansions are content updates... 0_o
What is an expansion in an MMO. For say, WoW. It's new zones (planets), continued story (LotS continues the story arc), new systems (the new combat styles system,/other system changes/progression changes etc), smaller updates and content such as UI updates, Class updates, skill pruning etc (swtor is doing all of those in LotS)
Not sure what your definition of an expansion is...but that's generally what expansions have in them, and that's what 7.0 has.
Granted, the whole budget thing was spoken about well after the June announcement of 7.0. So who knows what is to come in the next year or two.
So is this some weird word gotcha? There is a clear different between a typical content update, and a full fledged expansion. But clearly you have moved the goal posts so much there isn't a difference, why I have no idea. I mean are you seriously going to say Onslaught is on the same level as Shadow of Revan? Rise of the Hutt Cartel? The game has been putting out paltry content updates after relaxing any semblance of RPG/difficulty in the game (after KOTFE failed to live past the trailers).
SWTOR is one of my favorite games of all time, but it's quite easy for me to be honest about the game. I still recommend it to people, but past the class stories it's a sub par single-player story and mmo experience.
SWTOR was the first MMO I ever paid for, and I'll tell you this:
Over the thousands of hours I played it, over all the stories I went through and genuinely enjoyed, I spent MAYBE 2 hours doing group content, and actively despised doing it.
It's like there was a conflict within Bioware/EA about how the game should be made; the writers clearly thought this would fair much better if it catered to the KOTOR fanbase, and so they spent a lot of time crafting intricate and interesting stories for each class, making it really feel like it was the next KOTOR. Problem is, that doesn't work for group content. If you make everyone feel special then no one feels special, and that's kind of how the flashpoints felt to me. Why should I care about these other players? They aren't a part of MY story and they just don't fit with the narrative path I'm taking.
After I played SWTOR (until the Cartel expansion), I left and played WoW. Guess what? I may not have cared about the story much at that point (lore's interesting and all, but it feels kinda separate from the game), but I was playing group content CONSTANTLY because the game is built around group play. You progress faster through levels and gear, you fight cooler bosses, and you often had to communicate your way through tough encounters. That kept me playing from late Cataclysm until Warlords of Draenor, where I felt like I was just done with the game.
I still come back to SWTOR every now and again, but it just feels... weak. You're 100% right about the combat, it just never felt like it was weighty enough, it feels like you're slapping someone with a lightsaber when there should be some level of power in that kind of weapon.
I still might play it before it fully and truly keels over and is taken offline, finish up the stories I missed, play the expacs I never got around to. The stories and work put into crafting them will always stick with me, even if I would still much rather have had a proper KOTOR 3
This is a good point. I'm a wow original, just switched to swtor last month, after 13 years with wow. Wow is better built for group content, it's easier to get into, and more necessary for the game play loop. That being said, swtor's immersion, and story telling blow blizzard out of the water. I've never experienced an mmo where I felt more connected to my character than I have in swtor. For the first time in my life I'm excited to level alts, just to get to see more of the story. Each game has made very similar mistakes, and it appears both publishers, and dev teams, are both equally obtuse when it comes to taking in fan input. I hope swtor's new expansion does better than wow's recent venture, but sadly I think we have seen the best days for both, pass years ago.
The story and fully voice acted aspects is what grabbed my attention back in 2013ish.
I can't stand the other MMOs that have 0 voice acting.
I spent all my time doing the beginning quests over and over.
Here I am in 2021, restarted playing with a new account.
I have gotten farther then I ever have, and I am completely hooked all over again.
Someone who has never really been into multiplayer and grew up an only child, will love the singleplayer first multiplayer second feel to this game.
I'd be very curious to see a second look at this now, just over four years later in an increasingly post WoW world where people have been jumping to other, already present MMOs like ESO, FF14 and SWTOR among others. The past 2 years alone have seen some pretty significant changes to the game and its population, showing that both Bioware and EA still have both faith and resources they're happy to pour into a 10 year old game that many wrote off years ago. The Hero engine itself may be the biggest hurdle, and updates are certainly slower than in higher profile MMOs, but the community for the game is exceptionally solid, and been increasing.
The major release next month will see if it can continue or not.
SWTOR has excellent storylines. Literally some of the best in any game. My wife (and now, my oldest daughter) and I play together, and it’s great you can have other people talk to NPCs with you. I loved finding the lore entries, as well.
But it isn’t a MMO. None of us interact with any other players. There is literally no reason to do anything with any other players, even dungeons and 4 man quests.
Absolutely
because you are a scrub. ranked and nim raids are insanely good
@@alexandera153 if I wanted to hear your opinion, I’d have asked your uncle to pull out first.
I gotta say, I've watched the Knights of the Fallen Empire trailers a buuunch of times. They're absolutely stunning.
Both me and a friend of mine were big fans of SWG. When TOR was created my friend picked it up and started to play it immediately, but I decided to wait and simply watch him play. Soon after I quickly figured the game simply wasn't for me and wrote it off, he still plays the game and enjoys it.
The worst part of the game was how you could never put your useless lightsaber away as a sith inquisitor.
just unequip it
Well, they should've made what people actually wanted. Like KOTOR 3. But no, they wanted that sub money a la wow.
it wasn't Bioware or even EA's call. It was Lucas Arts. No really, Black Isle tried to make Kotor3. but Lucas arts said "No people don't play single player RPGs anymore we want a MMO"
Thinking that swtor was made with hate and ignorance of what the fans wanted, thinking that they didnt know we also wanted KOTOR 3 is just you being salty cause of the battle front 2 mess, this game came out in 2011, and became the most actively subscribed on the first day, shouldve made what peopel actually wanted?? it was outplaying EVERY other mmo at time of launch
Great video. Your observations mirror my own.
The only thing you didn't really touch on was PVP.
I recall Bioware was 'shocked' that PVP was so popular.
Myself and all of my guild mates quit because the lack of attention to pvp.
The RPG story was fabulous, but pvp 'was' our end game, and where swtor ultimately failed to deliver.
I recently went back to check out the game again, see how it has changed, and ended up logging out after a cpl hours after being reminded of the cheesy art style, dated graphics and stiff animations.
Maybe a limitation of the hero engine? But... after playing silky smooth, absolutely gorgeous games like GW2, swtor.. is hard to come back to.
Voice acting and great story are one thing, but gameplay is what keeps players coming back and sadly... swtor lacks.
I'm extremely disappointed EA has an exclusive license for SW games. They have made it clear another next Gen star wars mmo game is nowhere in sight.
Sad... Star Wars has such a massive following.
Having a Star Wars themed game, similar to the art style and features of the up and coming Star Citizen (two years from now?) seems like it would be such a cash cow....
Charghetti Sparghetti no. No it wasn't. It had one of the largest initial launches but then when you say that you forget that you're talking about a STAR WARS game and one set in the same time period as the 2 most popular games in the franchise. The game started hemorrhaging subs almost immediately. The game relied on the brand, it was NOT outplaying anything.
Learn to look at the variables.
Charghetti Sparghetti and then it fell just as fast as it grew. Don't kid yourself and act as if it was the holy grail of MMOs. It fell very very hard.
"It doesn't have much time to live"
Well with the death of WoW, I think its lifespan just increased.
Another happy landing.
I'd say most wow players went to FF XIV, butttttt I bet thing like Mandolorian definitely got some people to find this game
Of all your fantastic videos, this one surely aged the most like milk. Either way, this is still a fun video to go back and watch. Who knew that to give a second life on a ftp game with tons of content and a huge IP was just to launch it on the definitive PC gaming platform? If they can port this to consoles they’ll take it in even more. Crazy to think this game might STILL have a future of content updates and support.
If you really think temporary success on the steam means anything significant... Technically doesn't even disagree with the premise of the video.
nerdSlayer Studios you’re right king
Not only is this game not dead but its fun as hell
Yep
Yup.
Yuuuuppp.
YYYYYuuuuuuuuupppppppp.
So much value and content, free or paid...if you like Star Wars...this is the place to be.
well somebody made a crap load of money on it, so I doubt the executives consider their run with the game a failure, agree with many of your points though, I stopped playing it bc it just stopped being fun. Maybe there is some developer team out there that could make a clone wars sand box mmo! Now that would be cool, if I win the lotto tonight I'll finance it :)
If the combat system was closer to that of what was in Jedi Academy back in the day I would have been playing that to this day.
For real, too bad swtor is tab targeting bullshit :(
Yeah, that wouldn't work in an MMO, or any other type of game that wasn't like Jedi Academy.
It works in Black Desert Online, that's an MMO .... it also works in Blade & Soul which is also an MMO ... in fact their are a lot of MMO's that have action combat. They don't all have to be crappy WoW tap targeting 'rotation' nonsense.
I remember all the talk when this game came out. "It's a WOW killer", they all said. Within 2 weeks everybody had burned through all the content. Super disappointing.
I enjoyed your review, but I think you should have explained why Ilum was not a good PVP zone. When the game first launched there was even people being threatened with suspension for PVPing, mainly because some servers had massive faction imbalance and people would just go in groups to steamroll.
he did... did you not notice the lag in the video of ilum when he was laughing?
There were more problems with Ilum than just the lag, did you not notice the rest of my comment?
the sad feeling about it when i play it, is the fact that it feels like a single player game.
...the one that is not that great
That is the point of this video. The game isn't dead. It is simply a failure as an mmo.
To be completely honest with you, at this point this game looks like a DCUO rival.
when he starts talking about the rng loot its pretty funny that this is exactly the rng loot system of titanforged/personal loot system in bfa. and people fucking hate it, obviously.