It's not just the anti-climatic time jumps - it's also the way they did it which adds to the confusion. Some actors got replaced by older actors while other character were still being played by the same actors without any signs of aging...
FINALLY. Someone who noticed it, too. The pacing was just far too fast between the crazy time jumps and the lack of fleshing out EACH of the main characters. The 2 year jump didn't throw me off as much as the 10 and 6 year jumps. I understand that they only have 4 seasons committed to them by HBO, but, they could ostensibly given us at least 12-14 full hour episodes at the very least!!!
I think if they had extended what we saw in Season 1 most people would have been bored. I, and apparently the vast majority, based on the success and raving for this show, don't agree with your notion. The pacing was well balanced considering that it was all build up, the meat of the story is yet to come and we already know all the main characters motivations and origins. The irony is that all characters are waaaay more fleshed out in the show than the book. The told so much more, I honestly don't know what else can one need from the characters as presented.
Then you clearly did not read the books and has no idea what the story is even about. You can't tell the whole Rhaenyra story when she was younger more than what we got because that's how it's constructed. It's not about them having only four seasons to tell the story, it's about the buildup having to go through this way for the rest of the story to make sense. You have absolutely no idea that this is a generational war and the book fleshed out way more characters than the book planned to, but here you are with no clue and still crying about the story. You can't adapt a book if there is no story to tell in between. The thing will be slow when the Dance begins.
The dramatic finale of the show was the death of ... what's his name. You know, Rhaenyra's son. There's two of them. They've dark hair, cause they're the bastard sons of ... ahhh Strong, something Strong. One of them is taller than the other. Well, it wasn't the tall one, it was the shorter one. Anyway, whatever his name is, he was killed by Aemon. I remember him cause he has a cool eye patch. Far too many thinly drawn character.
Harwin Strong is the father of Rheanyra's sons Jace, Luc, and Joffrey. Luc is the one that died because Aemon is still has issues about losing his eye.
the pacing was HORRIBLE I can't believe so few people point it out. the plot was ok but the pacing made me not care about anyone, which isn't a good thing. theb10 year skip was the worst. I'd rather season 1 being about young Raenera and the 10 years skip being season 2
with the pacing, everything falls apart. the incredible deaths in GoT were only possible because we actually spent the amount of time with these characters. we were given time to like them, with all their flaws. this requires time
My problem with the show is that I don’t love any characters… Nobody clever and/or witty. Just all drama with no levity. Time jumps didn’t help either but if there was a Tyrion, Sam, Braun, or even Snow, it would be easier to care about it.
exact! me too,very sad,in GOT you got a bunch of great characters,but here you just try to find a good 1 but you fail. its a total fan on drugs show only...
The only characters I can think of are Daemom, Rhaenyra and Colrys just because, you know, he's quite noticible xD. At least Daenerys had a reason to be a mad murderer queen. She lived like a dog until her brother sold her out. Rhaenyra instead was daddie's princess who had a crush on her uncle.
Finally, someone utters the awkward truth and displays some logical thinking. When the first two episodes rolled out, I was ready to get captivated by this show which proved to be such a disappointment. Apart from pacing, the biggest problem that makes the audience unable to identify with the characters by writing them off just to rush things, another thing that makes the show weak is its dialogue. I feel like the conversations between adult Rhaenyra and Alicent just teleports me back to the last two seasons of GOT where the Stark sisters fight just to add some drama to a dying show. There's no finesse. However, I'd say that the only surprise of this show is Paddy Considine, such a brilliant actor.
I think it actually understandable if on those first seasons of HotD we have average dialogue and not as super clever/ sophisticated like GoT dialogue, at least in my opinion. The only problem with the first Got season is it so hard to catch up with what really happened since their world is so big and there are numerous of character's storylines yet the character still behave naturally normal (which is very good when we rewatch). This in fact required the audience had to look up for the background story in the book to understand what drama their characters involved, apparently not so much people be that kind of nerd, at least not when the first season came out. In the opposite, like you said, HotD did created the atmosphere that almost like the 2 final Got seasons (which is bad), but for the sake of making everything clear at the set up for the audience, people would feel easier and less overwhelmed. I just hope that after first season of HotD, the later seasons would gradually turn into the mood of GoT first 4 seasons, where things is slowlier and deeper, instead of just putting big things for the fanboys
Critical drinker convinced me to watch it but, my god... I just cant believe how much good critics and reviews that serie got. I cant go through a single scene without rolling my eyes about something...
My biggest problem was that they needed more time to flesh out what exactly deamon was doing throughout those 15 years. For someone who pretty much caused the dance of the dragons (everyone seems to be rooting for him too lol) They needed more time for people to understand, at his core, he is chaotic evil
7:01 I think the best solution would be not having any time jumps altogether and starting the story from a later point (Vaemond's accusations would be ideal). Think about all the history we learned from GoT S1 through clever exposition: Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna, death of Ned's father and brother, Robert's rebellion, Jaime slaying the mad king, Greyjoy rebellion, Jon Arryn's death etc. The audience didn't need to see these events in order to grasp them. Also narrating these events only by hearsay has set up some interesting mysteries and different viewpoints in the current story. I doubt Jaime's bathtub monologue would be as impactful if we knew his intentions were honorable from the start.
The problem is this isnt GOT. Its a letdown. GOT had a variety of engaging characters. They mixed common with royals and they had good banter and dialogue. This thing is boring. It has no tension and they all seem a like. Maybe its the platinum hair. Also none of them have any kind of close or interesting relationships with other cast members. Its like watching chess pieces move around a board with no real relationships. They have no friends, no loves, nothing. The only one I can think of is the platinum blonde and the black guy with platinum hair but even that is boring.
Finally, i think People are giving it way too much credit just because rings of power is trash, some even compare it to got season 1, which this show is still way behind, season 1 of GOT had much better pacing, character development, and characters overall, other Than Daemon, Aemond and Viserys all The other character were just okay to me, its like they were versions of other characters we have already seen before.
They should’ve made around 13 episodes especially if the introduction to a war. They left out so many details too, we didn’t even get to see Balerion but we did Viserys’ father Jahaerys?
Ok, Balerion has nothing to do with this story, why show him at all? specially when he died way before this story, makes no sense. And Jahaerys is not Viserys father, that's the whole reason for the counsil of 101.
@@hera7884 but that has NOTHING to do with the dance of dragons, this is not the story of the conquest. Balerion is not involved in this story at all, he is dead. Again, why show him at all? because he was big?? absurd. And technically they did show him. His skull. because he is DEAD.
Pretty accurate. The time jumps make it virtually impossible to connect with any of the characters. Seems they just want to rush through the backstory so we can get to the “ohh cool” dragon fights. Pretty lame.
Then you clearly did not read the books and have no idea what the story is even about. You can't tell the whole Rhaenyra story when she was younger more than what we got because that's how it's constructed. It's not about them having only four seasons to tell the story, it's about the buildup having to go through this way for the rest of the story to make sense. You have absolutely no idea that this is a generational war and the book fleshed out way more characters than the book planned to, but here you are with no clue and still crying about the story. You can't adapt a book if there is no story to tell in between. The thing will be slow when the Dance begins.
@@LauraGS564 reading the books is completely irrelevant, The show needs to be able to work on his own like game of thrones season 1 did, If you need the books for you to say "oh this is cooler than i imagined" then the show did a bad job.
@@javierlopez9789 Lol what? How is it irrelevant when that's how it's adapted? Are you seriously this moronic that you think the source material it is based on is not relevant? Not following the source was what ruined the show with D&D. This show has adapted the book brilliantly, and since you clearly could not comprehend my point of this show is a generational storyline, explaining anything to a complete imbecile like you would be a failure too. No, it does not mean the show did a bad job just because the showrunners added extra layers provided by the maesters who gave the false information of this unreliable narration storyline that the Fire and Blood is. And you might not even get that because you have no idea about the book and no idea how well it has been adapted. Please know what you are talking about the next time you plan to open your idiotic mouth.
Stop posting the same copy paste fanboy BS… if you were able to construct thoughts on your own you would be able to recognize parts of this show (even if you are a fan) are fricken trash. Enjoy your bandwagon just so you feel part of something for once in your miserable life.
Aren’t we full of ourselves and smug Liam. And you are correct I haven’t read the book but so what, that doesn’t mean I can’t spot a poorly paced story when I see one. Brat.
I didn't care about any of them because they weren't fleshed out characters, just a slideshow of different faces with familiar names. Same goes for the opening sequence...just a mildly interesting slideshow. A real opportunity was missed with the Club Foot, he was badly written and thus a key source of intrigue went unexplored. If Varys had been written like that, no one would be quoting that character years later. The series reminds me of that Leo film, The Revenant, everyone went crazy for it, and forgot it as soon as the media blitz and online sycophancy ended.
Club foot dude was weird!! I actually got bored and turned off the episode when I noticed him staring at Alicent's feet after popping up in her room unexpected. I was thinking how stupid this show had gotten and if I liked it or not. Well I decided to flip it back on later that night and omg he was doing the thing and that's when I was like the SpongeBob meme: "Imma head out". Just don't understand HBO and their weird perversions in GOT and HOTD
What a joke this series turned out to be, why didn’t they do it over seasons like GoT where the actual actors aged, they advanced about 100 years removing all female actors and all male actors apart from the King didn’t age a day hahaha
a refreshingly frank critique. it is good, no doubt, but good in the way fire and blood is good but it isn't ASOIAF. the pacing and lack of character development for many is problematic. how can you expect the audience to really care about the death of a key character in the final episode when we've barely go to know him. i'm not even sure they mentioned he was a dragonrider until that episode. the same problem exists that late season GOT had. no fleshed out novels to go off
I just dislike this show so far after watching the 7th episode. The cast sucks. Vanilla. GOT had a stellar line up that made me route for everyone of them. Brandon was the only one in GOT that I didn’t like they should have killed him off honestly. Now HOTD: I feel nothing for these characters. Not one. Next problem: The gross scenes that are unnecessary and just gross 🤢. Why would I want to see a c-section? Or someone’s balls being cut off? They are doing it for some sort of shock appeal and it’s obvious. 3rd. Yes the story is rushed. I understand it’s trying to cover a certain time period quickly but it feels rushed and confusing. Lastly: what’s up with the white dreads? They should have called this show House of Albinos. It’s so dumb looking. Honestly it’s just boring so far and hopefully it gets better but after 7 episodes if it hasn’t grabbed my attention yet it probably never will.
Well in the words of Lebowsky: "that's just like... your opinion man". Obviously the vast majority of the world doesn't agree with you. The show is a success in every way. cheers.
@@braxxian Not really. LoTR was a failure because it sucked, HoTD was a hit because of good storytelling. Only a complete braindead moron like you think that's being duped. Know how to differentiate between the things that are.
I love how in the beginning of HOTD and GOT the realm gathers for the biggest celebration but like never gather for anything again.. just not in the budget i guess
From the first episode and I thought we were getting a brother v brother full scale war. You know not some drawn out drama. I'm talking about 10k troops and 1 dragon v 2k troops and 3 dragons. Not some killing crab people that I had no clue about.
And it's not only the time jumps... it's just not a good show. Prequels tend to be painfully corny and this is no exception. Especially when they have corny characters that connect with the characters of the regular GOT timeline. Oh get it Larys is like Varys.. .get it. Oh and Jason the knight... oh get it he's the knight that gets killed in game of thrones. It's like Back to the Future where it's like Gryff and Biff and it's the same actor, but in a silly comedy it works. And now firing up the second season they begin with something in the realm of a John Snow character. What a cheesefest. Now in this episode our word of the day is going to be duty... ok boys and girls... We're going to say it every other sentence for the entire episode. And the show repeats various taglines... I'm not going to be queen of the ashes... get it. And what was up with the whole crab feeder thing in the first season. he'd just like pose in front of the camera twitching looking like a jackass... WTF? I theorize those who like the show want to like it more then they actually do.
The problem = Sara Hess. Why, without me knowing a single thing about the writer, did I know she was a gay woman just from watching a few episodes? That's the problem, it's "the message" vs art.
Here's the problem: it's the book! They're going off a book that only provides "highlights" of the Targaryen dynasty and are forced to fill out where they can and that is a fatal miscalculation considering how HBO dropped the ball after they ran out of book material in GOT. I notice hints of wokeness popping up, violence is toned down... I also perceive the CGI to be of a lesser quality. Very disappointing.
Agreed. They don't let characters actually steep and grow, nor do the showrunners allow us to see them undergo this change. GoT S1-4 really shows why building them up, being patient pays DIVIDENDS when a character is either killed/something bad/amazing happens for them. And now with Season 2 being only 8 episodes, I don't understand why they can't do 10 eps because there's more than enough book material to cover 10 eps, even more if they allowed the characters to develop. The only characters they managed to make interesting in S2 is Aegon. Rhaenyra's just...boring and stale at this point and Daemon's...I don't even know what's up with him. Aemond's a menace as always (the actor is killing it) but the Blacks feels like they've been defanged.
Pace was not a problem for me. The problem is that not one character is worth caring about. GoT got me to care about the characters, and i was more invested in their stories. HotD is the opposite of that.
Danse is about two sides who do awful things to get the throne. But this is an obstacle because the series could've been about morally Grey characters that are likable. The series made the blacks the protagonists and the greens the antagonists. It's still not a problem because we could've compelling villains to oppose the heroes, right?
So, we're well into the second season and the show managed to decline from whatever shallow ditch it was in. It would make any difference if everybody would die, now. Cardboard pieces with long blonde hair would save the same purpose.
The writing is more than decent but the pacing certainly is quite jarring. It's like when my little sister was trying to learn how to drive a manual transmission. It is an overall enjoyable show, but I think it's being over praised due to recency bias.
The writing in this show is fine. In fact, it’s pretty good. It’s the pacing where the show suffers. But yeah, GOT S5-8 we’re plagued with D&D’s awful decisions.
@@momomono795 yeah you are right GoT was a masterpiece seasons 1 to 4 after that it went downhill got worse and worse... HotD is pathetic... They even made the Valyrians black rastas with white dreadlocks 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
5:35 Rhaenyra wasn't married to Daemon at the time and was committing adultery against Leanor. She reprimanded Aegon for bringing shame to his wife, so she clearly feels some type of way about adultery and fornication. She marries her daughter to her son because she doesn't want Haleana to marry Jacearys, co-signing that he's a legitimate heir. I think to marry Haleana to anyone other than the heir to the throne would have been suspicious. So she marries Haleana to someone who has a decent claim to the throne.
It’s less about pleasing everyone, and more about giving characters more depth in your story instead of making some of them feel so one dimensional. You can have action in your episodes, I never said in my video that you couldn’t. All I said is that a couple more episodes to flesh out the characters in that timeframe would be good. Instead of the show trying to go shove all the character development they had in a two year span, and it’s all being shoved in an hour long episode. Game of Thrones did this well, they had character development, and action. Either you’ve completely misunderstood my video, or you barely watched it.
Confusing is only a small part of it. Like I said to the original poster, either you completely misinterpreted my video, did watch the whole thing and decided to cherry-pick one thing from my argument, or you only watched a bit of my video.
THANK YOU. I really appreciate someone finally saying this besides myself explaining why this show is terrible to my loved ones. I think the biggest problem with this show is it’s trying to capture the magic of early season GoT while hoping we just go along with the journey of the characters without actually showing the fuckin journey. This is all proven meaningless when I can’t be bothered to remember who everyone is after each time skip
The acting is strong. The Costumes are on the same level as GOT, the CGI is better than anything on GOT, I doubt you know the difference between good and bad writing tbh
Wah women can't be king. Wah I have to marry the king. Wah I have to have this kid. Wah I have to raise this kid. Wah I want my kid to be king. Wah my kids are dead. Boom, just saved you so much time.
Coming as a viewer who is watching the show much later... I may stop after watching Episode 6. No disrespect to the actors and actresses, but these feel like different people. I don't feel like I know them, so it's difficult to be invested in anything they do. Which makes sense! It's like if you loose touch with somebody at age 17 and then you cross paths with them again when they are aged 30. You will know some things about them, but we are different people when we are 17 than we are at aged 30. If as soon as you meet them after having been away for so long you're introduced to a lot of the drama going on in their lives, you similarly might be inclined to go away and not care what they do.
Many would say that the show does not insult our intelligence with the time skips and we can fill the gaps. For me though, these time jumps are just playing it safe. Supposedly J.R.R.Martin is more involved in these series. So they could not create scenes that fleshed out the characters? Usually creating such scenes out of your imagination is not a good thing. But you had the creator himself to help you! GOT's most interesting parts were not the visual spectacle but the politics. In House of the dragon I was dying of boredom in most of the episodes. The only thing that actually kept me watching were the visuals. Completely the opposite from what I watched GOT for. I am also worried about the racial politics. I did cringe at first but thankfully they've used good actors to make me not care. Honestly, the ending of season one gave me the interest to watch the next season, but it's mostly on the visuals. I am afraid though that it will fall in the pit of politics, so I will be negative till it proves me wrong. Basically till the end. And only fools would expect a good ending if they have read or even watched GOT. Spoilers: Jeffrey Baratheon tells Marjorie Tayrell what will happen to Rhaenyra... If you have been paying attention.
Agree on your take about the pacing, It was comical at times.also, daemon's character is a huge letdown imo.he is impressively boring and pretentious, to the point where i find his scenes hard to get through.thankfully performances by viserys, alicent, rhaenyra, and otto make up for it , along with scenes of amond and vhagar.
I agree 💯 with this I didn't feel any emotional impact 😭 with Laynas death because her adult self I don't know her seing her ride a dragon 🐉 and one or two conversations with Daemon and her two daughters wasn't enough for me to be in invested in her character
Character development is horrible. I cant follow the storyline because of lack of interests in any of them and perhaps the time jumps have all to do with it. Tuning out
I believe that the House of the Dragon has a lot of potential to be phenomenal series like Game of Thrones. Despite the show’s issues, it’s still fairly immersive to watch. I feel like actresses Emma D’Arcy and Olivia Cooke delivered great performances. Thanks for this review. You really are talented when it comes to this.
Indeed, even at its lower points of the show I was still thoroughly invested when it came to its characters and plot. The actors are all pretty great with what they’ve been given, and of course the stars who really take the spot light is Olivia Cooke and Emma D’Arcy! Also, thank you!
@@braxxian in the 2 season there would be Jace on his journey , Dragonstone and Driftmark , Kings Landing , Harrenhall and Riverlands campaing , Oldtown and the Reach campaing
I'm writing this paragraph after I finished my comment below, it came off more agresive than I intended, but I won't change it because i can't convey my harmless tone, and also I really do mean this. I hope you read it and see it in a constructive way. I see you have some subscribers and you might want to understand your target audience so it might help you improve in the future. Maybe. ------------------------------------- None of these are problems. It's always somewhat irritating when people confuse things that went over their heads with "inconsistencies". For instance, the show makes clear that what motivates Daemon to end the war is getting help from his brother, which he doesn't want for reasons too long to explain. He didn't defeat them with ease, if that is what you understood, I think you didn't get it. He makes a bold move and risks his life, he almost died. But he needed to end the war, he gambled big and paid off which is not the same as "defeated them with ease". As a book reader I totally understand the time jumps, I actually don't see how they could have done it any other way. The story takes place throughout decades, I really don't know how they could have done it differently. I don't agree with your opinion. The irony is that these 10 hours of House of the Dragon represented 70 pages of the book. In comparisson, GOT season 1 was more than 800 pages. They took their time and developed the characters in HOTD, that's why it's getting so much praise, they are far more developed than the book, I honestly don't know what else was missing, according to you. If they had done it "slower" as you suggest, it would have bored the general audience and then we go in circles. Is it too rush? or too slow? for whom? I felt it was perfectly balanced and fleshed the characters out much more than the book. And again, other things you didn't understand and pass them off as "contradictions". To quote you... "let me explain": Alicent wasn't angry about Rhaenyra's relationship with her uncle (because she actually DIDN'T have anything with her uncle, it was with Cristen Cole!! oh man, did you like... watch the show?), it wasn't the "potential" incest that bothered her when she confronted Rhaenyra, it was that she did something forbitten which is to lose her maidenhead before getting married and SPECIALLY that she then lied about it , and also that Rhaenyra gets to sleep with whoever she wants and do whatever she wants, which coincidentally and also brilliantly she learned trying to emulate her uncle Daemon (unlike Alicent who has to sleep with a creepy old man and did everything that she was told). This actually gets SPELLED OUT by Alicent in Episode 7 "where is duty, where is sacrifice...". She is not an hypocrite for marrying her son and daugher. As someone already corrected you, Alicent marries Halaena with Aegon as a response to Rhaenyra's proposal to marry Haleana with Jace. Again, YOU didn't get it or got it wrong and assume is a "problem", it isn't, you just have to pay attention. "Did she want to be Queen or was she nothing more than a pawn to her father?" ... Again, did you watch the show?? this literally gets Yelled out at the camera... "I wanted whatever you impressed upon me to want"... is like, what show are you reviewing?? "Why is Criston such an asshole?" really? another thing that gets SPELLED OUT. Spoilers: it wasn't because Rhaenyra rejected him, it was his honour that got tainted, and honour is everything to him, as was made PLAINLY clear in the show, he even wanted to die afterwards, that's how important his honour is to him. He actually proposed to her to save his honour, not because he loved her. And if you think I know this because I read the book. None of this is in the book. The pacing doesn't feel jarring to the audience. It felt jarring to YOU because you are apparently not paying attention. Rhaenys not Dracaryng the greens in episode 9 was not an odd choice of writing, and the reasoning is not dumb just for the fact that, that's not the complete reason. It's the whole implication of murdering an entire family, hers! A better question would be, why should she do it?? There hasn't been a declaration of war, they didn't steal the throne from her, there is the whole "Kinslayer" thing in Westeros that if you are not aware of, you will with Aemond, one of the reasons he looked the way he did after Vhagar killed lucerys. All she wanted was to escape, because she knew they would keep her prisioner for her dragon. She even makes clear that she suspects Rhaenyra of killing her son, why would she ruin her life and reputation for her then?? and also, it's plain murder, she will have to pay for it, in this world you don't get to kill someone without permission from a superior authority, most likely Rhaenyra would have punished her if not execute her for it. That's her family too, and Viserys just died showing how much they wanted them together... and Rhaenys just kills them? why?? they are villains to you, but why to Rhaenys? she has her own House and her own grandkids, Rhaenys has no way of knowing what's comming, she has no dog in the fight at that moment, and she makes it clear later that she doesn't know at first who to support, if anyone at all. This is the first time I felt so compelled to comment something on a Video because I don't agree with ANYTHING you say. Now, to each its own, if you didn't like it you didn't like it, I'm fine with it, it doesn't bother me, it's just NOTHING you say is right. like, nothing. Again, I'm not judging taste. Objectively, nothing was right. If you didn't like the time jumps, that's fine, i'm not arguing that, but your reasoning is so off. No wonder it was so jarring if you don't pay attention. You ask irrelevant questions to the show, you are the audience, you don't dictate what's being told to you, you don't ask questions that the story doesn't prompt you to ask. Did Visery wear dipers? I don't know, why didn't they show it??... like that.. it's just... I don't know. One last time, I have no problem with you not liking a show I like, it's just all your reasoning is factually wrong. And I needed to say something. And if you would like to make a video with me discussing "peacefully" and "academically" the pacing of the show I'm all for it. Who knows, maybe you find something new for your channel. On my part, everyone I know is crazy about the show and it sounds appealing to have a conversation with someone with a different opinion. Let me know. JP.
Hello, sorry for the late response, but I was a bit preoccupied! And all good about the comment, all constructive criticism is welcome. I would be a bit of a hypocrite if I myself would have a problem with aggressive constructive criticism! Criticism helps me improve, so I hope you know that I do use this kind of thing to improve my content! That is true, he did want men for the war, but didn’t get them. I did mention that he got an arrow through the chest, and said that other than they “defeated them with ease”. What I was trying to say was how long it took for him to go through with killing the crab feeders. 2 years after the events is sort of understandable, if they were extremely difficult. But Daemon managed to hold them off for an extremely long period of time, and other than that injury which is pretty common for people in wars in this universe, he managed to beat them with a lot of ease on his part. Fair enough, that is your right as a viewer to think so. I haven’t read any of the books personally, I’m a newbie as one might say haha, so I’ll have to give those a read! I had no idea that HOTD’s part in the book was so short, but kinda proves my point. Since there wasn’t much to go off of, there wasn’t much screen time to show. I’m glad you are glad with the way it was handled, however, I found it to be very disappointing. My point is that the episodes needed more time to breathe, they were going from timeline to timeline way too fast. And it feels jarring when you are just getting used to seeing one piece of scenery, and getting used to the characters in how they are, and then the next episode it cuts a few years later, and you are spent with some of the episode playing catch up. It breaks my immersion as an audience member, and hence part of the reason it feels jarring. I’m not saying that they make another 10 episodes dedicated to each timeline, just an episode for each timeline, so it gives it more breathing room. And for my taste, it is way too fast. And by looking at a lot of the comments, it would seem that people would agree with this assessment for the most part. Of course, not everyone is correct in constructive criticism, but since you were asking with whom, I thought I might answer. And again, how you feel about the pacing is completely okay, however, I do have my problems with this show as well. This is the first point of yours I actually agree with, since I did get A TON of things wrong about that. While I am only human, it is quite embarrassing for me to get something that wrong. While this did get said, I didn’t deny that. I thought that more of a conflicting moral stance from Alicent was necessary. Hence an episode to flesh out her stance, because each time jump she’s going to think differently about this. Her being conflicted about this would have been way more interesting than a few one liners about it. With Criston I probably did miss a few things, but my argument still stands on me wanting more development into his downfall. And saying that Criston didn’t love Rhaenrya is kind of ridiculous. There have been multiple moments between the two that resemble some spark between the two. Especially during episode 3, where they share that moment together around the campfire. And it felt pretty naturally headed in that direction, especially during the climax of the end of episode 4. Sure, it was for honour. But saying that he only wanted to marry Rhaenrya only out of honour is a bit of a stretch, since from the development shown, I would say he has a connection with her too. Which is why I mentioned the stuff about Criston becoming evil because of that was a bit ridiculous, however I did miss out on that detail about his honour so apologies. Again, I’m not the only one who thinks the pacing feels jarring at points. There are multiple people in the comments, online, and friends I’ve talked to who can agree with my criticism. Are they right? Well that really depends on your perspective of how you view media. The criticism is valid, it’s more or less a matter of choosing if you think it’s valid in your eyes. Again, my real question was “why did she even break into the room in the first place? What was the point?” I get not killing the people you know because it might cause an all out war, but they are already coming after her for being a traitor. Plus, when she did break into the room with that dragon, chances are she killed a few civilians. So what was the point of breaking into that room if not to kill the family? Fair enough, I’ve felt compelled to comment on videos as well. If you didn’t agree, that’s fine. If you think my video is not well argued, then there’s nothing I can do about that. This is my stance on your criticisms, and hopefully we can mutually agree on the stance. I did pay attention to the show, however, there were a few details I missed. I wouldn’t exactly call my questions “irrelevant”, since they do relate to plot and characters, but I understand what you mean. Since you think I’m wrong when it comes to it. I feel like you are using false equivalencies to the situation though, since I am asking questions where I am questioning characters motives, and feels a bit weird when you are comparing something like “Why is Criston Cole an asshole?” To “Did Viserys wear diapers? I don’t know??? They didn’t show it!” Some of your reasoning is right, like that one thing about Alicent and Rhaenrya, but some of the points you made against me felt like you fundamentally misunderstood my arguments. While I would not like to make a video with you, I kind of have a rule about collabs or debates on videos. But I am more than happy to debate with you in the comment section if you have a problem or query! I’m glad you and your friends are loving the show, and I hope you are having a good day! Nice to hear your defenses and critiques, again, constructive criticism is welcome as always! - Introverted Robot/John.
@@introvertedrobot I kinda want to take back my agresiveness on my comment, because I always respected how you feel about the show. So thank you for answering and being a good sport. Now I want to watch more of your videos even if we don't agree. So let me respond some of your last points: As far as the crabfeeder war at the stepstones, in the book it goes in detail explaining how this army spent 2 years mainly avoiding the Dragons, and they were not the first. The seven Kingdoms are not actually 7 in this time in history for that very same reason, Aegon the conqueror never really conquered Dorne, but that's another long story. I truly believe you didn't get that whole sequence, based on what I understood from your comment. Daemon did not want men for the war, he did not want help from Viserys, again, it's a character study moment, but in short, it was pride. So when he got the letter from Viserys about help on the way, he beat up the messenger and almost died fishing out the crabfeeder, because as Viserys actually says in the scene before "He would rather die than ask for help". I never got for a second that he defeated the crabfeeder army with ease, but rather he took a big risk, it could have gone wrong but didn't. That's it. About the pacing. Listen, I respect the way you feel about it, I really do. But it's subjective, which is why I can't argue. Yes, I know some people feel the way you do, but have you looked around? HOTD is the hottest show of the year, and the vast, vast mayority of critics and viewers love the show, even "the critical thinker" who hates everything, is praising it 100%, watch his video. I feel they balanced it great, but I think it is mainly because I know what's coming and I know this was all build up. For example, some people did complain about the lack of Harwing Strong and Leana Valaryon, characters some people would have liked to see more of. But I know how irrelevant they are in the overall arc of the story so I know we saw more than enough of them. This is not the "adventures of Leana" show, it's the dance of dragons so they did what they were required to do. Yes, I like that you say "for your taste..." because that is the truth, it's your taste. I am confident that if they had added 2 or 3 more episodes, most people would have complained that it's going too slow, and it doesn't get to the conflict soon enough. So, who should they please? this show it's made for the common viewer. But knowing the characters and what's coming, not only did the show not leave any question unanswered as far as characters motivation goes, but they answered much more than the book at this point. Your complain about the pacing indicates that there are some questions unanswered, I would like to know which ones are these. I never had problems with the time jumps, and I know the vast mayority of the audience didn't either. Just look at all the praise. as far as Alicent: "I thought that more of a conflicting moral stance from Alicent was necessary." this would have been way too redundant. For starters, she didn't even need to say that to Otto, about the fact she never even knew what she wanted, because she was always manipulated by him. We saw it from the very beginning that she was a pawn. Her father used her from the very beginning "go visit the king and wear your mother's dress" "Aegon must be king, Rhaenyra is a woman" I mean... more clear than that? Everything was clear about Alicent and shown with every action she commited, we can write an essay about Alicent to describe her entire character in Season 1, that's how complete it was. John, really, I trully believe that all these questions and things you say you "needed to see" are shown in the episodes, I actually don't understand how you didn't see it. "Criston didn’t love Rhaenrya is kind of ridiculous" Why? was there any indication of this? just because they sat at the campfire together? he never showed interest in her other than his duty. And instead, during this very scene, HE EXPLICITLY states how honour is what he is about, and that Rhaenyra changed his entire life in a second by naming him Kingsguard, which he says it's the "greatest honour" ever achieved in the history of his family. Like, really... how much more spelled out does it need to be? Then the scene in the ship cements his character dimension, with how he decided to propose and how he reacted at her rejection and counter offer to turn him into his side lover, he screams crying at her "this white cloak is the only thing my family ever achieved and I betrayed it!! I broke my oath of chastity wuaaaa!" I mean he actually says it!! if he really loved her, then why not go through with it?? why not do what Harwing Strong did? who probably did love Rhaenyra. see the difference? Christon didn't love her, he is a man of honour, like many men in those days. A kind of honour that doesn't exist anymore. Which is why i believe some people don't get it. It's a different Zeitgeist. I promise you, the VAST mayority of people didn't feel it was Jarring, I believe it is because most people understood what you didn't. Rhaenys: “why did she even break into the room in the first place? What was the point?” ok, John... hear me out. You missed something, I'm not being agressive, but there is something in this scene that went over your head. Now I see the problem. Rhaenys did not break into the room. They were at the Dragon pit. Did you not realise that? this is why she smiles when she sees that the crowd, along with her, are being pushed into the Dragon pit, because like she said seconds before "I won't leave Maelys behind". The Dragon pit is where she wanted to go to collect her Dragon, which was also her only means to escape. "there is a beast beneath the board". The dragon was already there and she had not other choice but to destroy the floor because that was the only exit. She wanted to escape, that's all. This was FAIRLY obvious and didn't even think that "she broke into the room" until you mentioned it. I don't think I heard anyone who interpreted it that way. And even if they call her a traitor now, she has her dragon, so she feels much safer now, in any case they were keeping her prisioner ilegally, so one might say she was justify to leave, she had no obligation to them. I do feel you either asked irrelevant questions because it's not part of the show, or you ask questions (mostly these questions) that have been answered by the show. Like, why christon cole is an asshole? answered. Why Alicent...? answered. Why Rhaenys...? answered, answered and answered. This is why the pace is fine, all important info about the characters is there, and I already saw that what you didn't get were things you missed. So, I don't see the problem really. I do understand all your arguments, they are just factually wrong. But if you didn't like the season. 100% respect for that. You can like and dislike what you want. Keep it up. I may say too much, but I'm just passionate. Don't get me wrong.
The problem with this series is also the feminist agenda. All male characters are shown to be evil, while female characters are victims and manipulated by males. They took away all the bad things the female characters do in the books and added to the bad things of the male characters. Aegon is a generic copy of Joffrey becomes a rapist in the series when in the books he is not and is also sadistic, Viserys kills his wife choosing a son through an operation, Daemon beats his wife Rhaenyra, etc.
What are you on mate? Saying that either gender of character is good or bad in this show is fucking pushing it. It’s just not that black and white. Daemon is a prime example of this, he’s a selfish asshole for the first half of the show, and slowly redeems himself a bit more throughout while still being a bit of an asshole. Alicent while an awful person, does have a tragic side to her. Visery’s while having his flaws, was still a decent person at the end of the day. Saying that all the male characters in this show are bad people, and the female characters victims is not only a misunderstanding of the show, but if the characters themselves.
@@introvertedrobot Look at the House of The Dragon series, all the male characters are shown as evil, selfish, manipulative, cruel, vengeful. The show's producers themselves have spoken of wanting to put feminist themes into the series. Alicent is not really evil and was just manipulated by her father and become bitter because she lives in a "patriarchal" world. She also did not want the throne for her son, but upon hearing the prophecy of Viserys in her death. Rhaenyra has her husband killed Laenor in the books, also Vaemond for calling your children a bastard. Everything bad that the female characters do in the books, the series takes away.
@@introvertedrobot There is no Cersei Lannister, evil female character because yes. All female characters in House of The Dragon are portrayed as victims who do bad things because they have been manipulated by men or because they live in a "patriarchal world".
@@introvertedrobot House of the Dragon and the art of choosing the most charitable interpretation of the book's events for female characters, while also choosing the worst for male characters. Spoilers!!! It's no secret that HOTD would always be a tricky adaptation due to the nature of the source material and its unreliable narrators. They really go out of their way to choose the most charitable interpretation of events that could reflect poorly on female characters. There's a lot of ambiguity in the book, so it's understandable that the show can't be ambiguous that often and has to pick a headcanon eventually (even though I believe there are events that they could have absolutely been handled with in a more vague way, like Rhea's death. All it took was one character giving Daemon condolences on the death of his wife and someone mentioning the circumstances of her death. There was no need to show the event itself, it was more than possible to suggest Daemon might have been involved in a conversation with Rhea. right direction), but when these headcanons often benefit the female characters or even choose interpretations that aren't implied in the source material (Rhaenyra faking Laenor's death, Alicent misinterpreting Viserys' final wishes), it's hard not to raise an eyebrow. . Let's start with Alicent. There's nothing to suggest that she didn't share her father's ambition in the book. She marries Viserys at age 18, older than many characters capable of great deeds and ambitions in the main series, such as Daenerys and Robb Stark. Or even Margaery Tyrell, who doesn't seem to have the same power as the previous two and is in fact a pawn in her family's game, but still seems extremely ambitious in her own right and eager to enjoy the position that awaits her as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. However, the show decides to portray her as an anxious and subservient teenager who is mostly a product of her father's social ascension, forced into a marriage she never wanted. Her biggest sins are...feeling betrayed by her teenage friend who lied to her about having sex, making a woman who's just given birth walk (which is petty, but nothing too bad. And Rhaenyra might as well refuse. If it weren't for your ego) and threatening a child with a knife, which is terrible, but given the situation, understandable. Episode 9 is the biggest offense, however. While Alicent is extremely excited about her son's coronation in the book, the show gives us an Alicent who doesn't know and is angry that the King's Council planned to support her son's claim behind her back. She immediately calls her father, saying that she was a pawn in his game all along. She feels conflicted about usurping Rhaenyra's throne and shows great concern for her safety ("Maybe the whore dies in childbirth", in her own words, is how much she cared for Rhaenyra in the books). They even went so far as to write a scene with Alicent misunderstanding Viserys' words to justify her desire for Aegon on the throne, as if she was just following her husband's will (this never happens in the source material). A stark contrast to Alicent in the book. I understand Alicent's motivation in the books and genuinely believe that many readers like to ignore that she had legitimate reasons to fear that Rhaenyra and Daemon would hurt their children and grandchildren, but she is still a woman who seems very ambitious in her own right and is well leaving her husband's body to rot for days while she plots. The show, in the other hand, decided to have her portrayed as a subjugated woman in conflict with everything going on, who mostly supports her son's coronation because that's Viserys' last wish. Then there's Rhaenyra. What exactly are her flaws in the series? Sure, she's a rebellious teenager, she has premarital sex, but does anyone expect anything else from teenagers? She is shown to be willing to make more concessions than she is actually willing to make in the book. About Laenor and Rhaenyra, the show portrays her as a devoted wife who tried her best to make a marriage without physical attraction work, stuck with an erratic husband who didn't mind putting so much effort into his marriage. Like she did. The fact is, it's the writers choosing the most flattering interpretation of the female character again. They even made Rhaenyra say that they had tried to fulfill their duties and have children, but to no avail. Still, not only do closeted gays have children all the time, but there are methods for having children without sex. So if Rhaenyra had 3 children with Sir Harwin, there's a strong possibility that she did it because that's what she wanted, because she thought she could get away with it. There is also the possibility that she participated in Laenor's death. Sure, you could say it's all green propaganda, but it might as well be true. The series once again decides to give her a flattering outcome, blatantly changing the narrative of the books and having Laenor survive and fake her death with the help of Rhaenyra and Daemon. They also decided not to have Rhaenyra involved in Vaemond Velaryon's death after he questions her children's legitimacy and accuses her of being an adulteress. As she orders Daemon to kill him and give the dragon his carcass, the series decides to portray the act as Daemon's sole responsibility. Honestly, I won't be surprised if Daemon is solely responsible for Blood and Cheese, doing it all without Rhaenyra's knowledge. Finally, we have the men in the story. Just like in the books, Daemon is considered cool. Still, they don't shy away from choosing to interpret events that reflect poorly on him, such as killing his first wife. But they also downplay Rhaenyra's involvement in certain events, blaming Daemon, such as killing Vaemond Velaryon. There's Otto and his unstoppable ambition, so they can't even be bothered to include his dialogue during the Green Council about his fear of Rhaenyra and Daemon hurting his family to avoid challenges to her succession in the books. There's Criston Cole being a brute and killing people without consequences, which doesn't really happen in the book. For example, he kills Laenor's boyfriend in a tournament originally, which is very different from killing him out of a wedding and not facing consequences, as deaths are a possibility in tournaments. There's Aegon being a rapist, which might not be that far-fetched, but extremely questionable. There's Larys being a pervert. They saw this rivalry between two extremely dangerous and cunning women who lacked influence, conscience and agency in their respective factions, who both had valid reasons to support their own claims, and decided to turn it into a story of two friends divided by a "patriarchy" because one of them was brainwashed into maintaining the status quo by the bad men around him. TL; DR: The showrunners are intentionally downplaying Rhaenyra and Alicent's agency and involvement in certain events that would make them look bad, choosing the most flattering interpretation of events from the book when there is a choice. When there isn't, they create one that isn't even implied in the book. At the same time, they always opt for the worst interpretation available to male characters, the one that makes them look like monsters, the one that makes them solely responsible for actions that were also motivated by female characters in the source material.
I thought episode 10 was going to be the end cos they hurried the show forward 🤔but 3 more seasons🤔and they could have started with the conquest instead and went on from that... of course people are gonna watch its George RR Martin. Maybe they were worried it would not be a success and thats why they hurried with the story. How old are they all suppose to be now anyways?
Pacing was the cost for show excitement and ultimately engagement. They took a decent hit so they didn't get drowned. They had a difficult task but I'm hooked so good on them. They nailed it. Not concerned in the slightest
Yeah that was a pretty bad mistake, I said Dragons because it felt less weird to say for me, so I apologise for the improper wording of the name. And yes, I did mix up the words successor and predecessor. Sorry for these jarring mistakes, thank you for pointing them out to me!
@@forsurematt9077 Definition of jarring: a jarring sight, sound, or experience that is so different or unexpected that it has a strong and unpleasant effect on something or someone.
I actually enjoyed the show more as it went on. They wanted to end the season where they did so the time jumps are necessary. I know you won't agree with me, but its just my opinion.
Clearly this crybaby has not read the book at all. This is based on a history book and it jumps through time a lot because it's a generational war. You can't spend time with everything when the book did not dwelve into that, and it's just a setup and buildup for the Dance. The characters were clearly fleshed out and we saw that in those episodes with time passing in.
@@introvertedrobot Even with the show, it was clear it's a generational war, punk. They can't spend an entire season on two to three events and not do jumps because that;s how the story is in the book. Do you even understand how things work?
@@LauraGS564 I understand it’s a generational war, that’s not my problem. The problem is that it jumps around too fast, and a couple more episodes would’ve fixed the jarring pacing.
@liam Gaysy I’m pretty sure you can make up stuff and include it in the story because that’s how creating a story and content works. The book this is based on was created in such a fashion since you obviously are not aware of how things working. So STFU punk and go drink your fanboy koolaid.
@@Generallyannoyed2024 making stuff up which GRRM didn't write was the undoing of Game of Thrones. You can't just invent storylines and make a cohesive storytelling way. But I don't presume a mother less dumbfuck to understand that who doesn't know anything about the books. The book was written in unreliable narrator way and there are gaps to fill which they did. That doesn't mean they can just invent storylines just like that lol. You clearly don't understand how writing works and if your slut dead mother would have sent you to school, you'd understand common sense. Why don't you go back to your sorry excuse of a life and be miserable?
@@alexdarkz3339 Well I did, but I would like to see your argument on why I’m wrong other than “lmao I’m right and your wrong”. You’re not elaborating on anything, it just makes you seem weird when I’m requesting for you to elaborate on why I’m wrong, and you think that’s a weakness and won’t explain why.
It's not just the anti-climatic time jumps - it's also the way they did it which adds to the confusion. Some actors got replaced by older actors while other character were still being played by the same actors without any signs of aging...
Some actors ? The children and women. While like old males were all recasted, only exception seems the queen that wasnt...
FINALLY. Someone who noticed it, too. The pacing was just far too fast between the crazy time jumps and the lack of fleshing out EACH of the main characters. The 2 year jump didn't throw me off as much as the 10 and 6 year jumps. I understand that they only have 4 seasons committed to them by HBO, but, they could ostensibly given us at least 12-14 full hour episodes at the very least!!!
I think if they had extended what we saw in Season 1 most people would have been bored. I, and apparently the vast majority, based on the success and raving for this show, don't agree with your notion. The pacing was well balanced considering that it was all build up, the meat of the story is yet to come and we already know all the main characters motivations and origins. The irony is that all characters are waaaay more fleshed out in the show than the book. The told so much more, I honestly don't know what else can one need from the characters as presented.
They just want to rush through the backstory so the fanboys can “ohhhh” and “ahhhh” at the dragon fights.
@@braxxian and yet there are people who checked out because of "not enough dragons", go figure 🙄
Then you clearly did not read the books and has no idea what the story is even about. You can't tell the whole Rhaenyra story when she was younger more than what we got because that's how it's constructed. It's not about them having only four seasons to tell the story, it's about the buildup having to go through this way for the rest of the story to make sense. You have absolutely no idea that this is a generational war and the book fleshed out way more characters than the book planned to, but here you are with no clue and still crying about the story. You can't adapt a book if there is no story to tell in between. The thing will be slow when the Dance begins.
The dramatic finale of the show was the death of ... what's his name. You know, Rhaenyra's son. There's two of them. They've dark hair, cause they're the bastard sons of ... ahhh Strong, something Strong. One of them is taller than the other. Well, it wasn't the tall one, it was the shorter one. Anyway, whatever his name is, he was killed by Aemon. I remember him cause he has a cool eye patch. Far too many thinly drawn character.
Right! The finale was meh. It took me a few minutes to realize the son died and even then I didn’t even care about his character
Harwin Strong is the father of Rheanyra's sons Jace, Luc, and Joffrey. Luc is the one that died because Aemon is still has issues about losing his eye.
9.2 on IMDb, you guys just have shit opinions
No you guys have no fucking clue on how to rate a show @@christiansargent6053
@@christiansargent6053imdb sucks tho
the pacing was HORRIBLE
I can't believe so few people point it out.
the plot was ok but the pacing made me not care about anyone, which isn't a good thing.
theb10 year skip was the worst. I'd rather season 1 being about young Raenera and the 10 years skip being season 2
with the pacing, everything falls apart. the incredible deaths in GoT were only possible because we actually spent the amount of time with these characters. we were given time to like them, with all their flaws. this requires time
My problem with the show is that I don’t love any characters… Nobody clever and/or witty. Just all drama with no levity. Time jumps didn’t help either but if there was a Tyrion, Sam, Braun, or even Snow, it would be easier to care about it.
exact! me too,very sad,in GOT you got a bunch of great characters,but here you just try to find a good 1 but you fail. its a total fan on drugs show only...
The only characters I can think of are Daemom, Rhaenyra and Colrys just because, you know, he's quite noticible xD. At least Daenerys had a reason to be a mad murderer queen. She lived like a dog until her brother sold her out. Rhaenyra instead was daddie's princess who had a crush on her uncle.
Finally, someone utters the awkward truth and displays some logical thinking. When the first two episodes rolled out, I was ready to get captivated by this show which proved to be such a disappointment. Apart from pacing, the biggest problem that makes the audience unable to identify with the characters by writing them off just to rush things, another thing that makes the show weak is its dialogue. I feel like the conversations between adult Rhaenyra and Alicent just teleports me back to the last two seasons of GOT where the Stark sisters fight just to add some drama to a dying show. There's no finesse. However, I'd say that the only surprise of this show is Paddy Considine, such a brilliant actor.
I think it actually understandable if on those first seasons of HotD we have average dialogue and not as super clever/ sophisticated like GoT dialogue, at least in my opinion. The only problem with the first Got season is it so hard to catch up with what really happened since their world is so big and there are numerous of character's storylines yet the character still behave naturally normal (which is very good when we rewatch). This in fact required the audience had to look up for the background story in the book to understand what drama their characters involved, apparently not so much people be that kind of nerd, at least not when the first season came out. In the opposite, like you said, HotD did created the atmosphere that almost like the 2 final Got seasons (which is bad), but for the sake of making everything clear at the set up for the audience, people would feel easier and less overwhelmed. I just hope that after first season of HotD, the later seasons would gradually turn into the mood of GoT first 4 seasons, where things is slowlier and deeper, instead of just putting big things for the fanboys
Critical drinker convinced me to watch it but, my god...
I just cant believe how much good critics and reviews that serie got. I cant go through a single scene without rolling my eyes about something...
Critical drinker became caricature of his own critique while ago. He can't be taken seriously anymore.
My biggest problem was that they needed more time to flesh out what exactly deamon was doing throughout those 15 years. For someone who pretty much caused the dance of the dragons (everyone seems to be rooting for him too lol) They needed more time for people to understand, at his core, he is chaotic evil
There's also the fact that there's no one to root for, which in my opinion is a separate issue from the pacing
7:01 I think the best solution would be not having any time jumps altogether and starting the story from a later point (Vaemond's accusations would be ideal). Think about all the history we learned from GoT S1 through clever exposition: Rhaegar kidnapping Lyanna, death of Ned's father and brother, Robert's rebellion, Jaime slaying the mad king, Greyjoy rebellion, Jon Arryn's death etc. The audience didn't need to see these events in order to grasp them. Also narrating these events only by hearsay has set up some interesting mysteries and different viewpoints in the current story. I doubt Jaime's bathtub monologue would be as impactful if we knew his intentions were honorable from the start.
Yes!
The problem is this isnt GOT. Its a letdown. GOT had a variety of engaging characters. They mixed common with royals and they had good banter and dialogue. This thing is boring. It has no tension and they all seem a like. Maybe its the platinum hair. Also none of them have any kind of close or interesting relationships with other cast members. Its like watching chess pieces move around a board with no real relationships. They have no friends, no loves, nothing. The only one I can think of is the platinum blonde and the black guy with platinum hair but even that is boring.
Finally, i think People are giving it way too much credit just because rings of power is trash, some even compare it to got season 1, which this show is still way behind, season 1 of GOT had much better pacing, character development, and characters overall, other Than Daemon, Aemond and Viserys all The other character were just okay to me, its like they were versions of other characters we have already seen before.
So you think if HOTD season 1 and ROP hadn't been released at the same time, the audience would notice its flaws??
They literally turned GoT into the Turkish "Magnificent century". Who knows, they knows what I'm talking about.
The pacing is off. I already don’t care much for the characters so when a time jump happens, I feel more disconnected
They should’ve made around 13 episodes especially if the introduction to a war. They left out so many details too, we didn’t even get to see Balerion but we did Viserys’ father Jahaerys?
Ok, Balerion has nothing to do with this story, why show him at all? specially when he died way before this story, makes no sense. And Jahaerys is not Viserys father, that's the whole reason for the counsil of 101.
@@jptributer because he was the biggest dragon that ever lived and him along with Vhagar conquered all of Westoros
@@hera7884 but that has NOTHING to do with the dance of dragons, this is not the story of the conquest. Balerion is not involved in this story at all, he is dead. Again, why show him at all? because he was big?? absurd. And technically they did show him. His skull. because he is DEAD.
@@jptributer oh well
@@hera7884soooo do a s8, sacrifice story for unimportant spectical.
Pretty accurate. The time jumps make it virtually impossible to connect with any of the characters. Seems they just want to rush through the backstory so we can get to the “ohh cool” dragon fights. Pretty lame.
Then you clearly did not read the books and have no idea what the story is even about. You can't tell the whole Rhaenyra story when she was younger more than what we got because that's how it's constructed. It's not about them having only four seasons to tell the story, it's about the buildup having to go through this way for the rest of the story to make sense. You have absolutely no idea that this is a generational war and the book fleshed out way more characters than the book planned to, but here you are with no clue and still crying about the story. You can't adapt a book if there is no story to tell in between. The thing will be slow when the Dance begins.
@@LauraGS564 reading the books is completely irrelevant, The show needs to be able to work on his own like game of thrones season 1 did, If you need the books for you to say "oh this is cooler than i imagined" then the show did a bad job.
@@javierlopez9789 Lol what? How is it irrelevant when that's how it's adapted? Are you seriously this moronic that you think the source material it is based on is not relevant? Not following the source was what ruined the show with D&D. This show has adapted the book brilliantly, and since you clearly could not comprehend my point of this show is a generational storyline, explaining anything to a complete imbecile like you would be a failure too. No, it does not mean the show did a bad job just because the showrunners added extra layers provided by the maesters who gave the false information of this unreliable narration storyline that the Fire and Blood is. And you might not even get that because you have no idea about the book and no idea how well it has been adapted. Please know what you are talking about the next time you plan to open your idiotic mouth.
Stop posting the same copy paste fanboy BS… if you were able to construct thoughts on your own you would be able to recognize parts of this show (even if you are a fan) are fricken trash. Enjoy your bandwagon just so you feel part of something for once in your miserable life.
Aren’t we full of ourselves and smug Liam. And you are correct I haven’t read the book but so what, that doesn’t mean I can’t spot a poorly paced story when I see one. Brat.
I didn't care about any of them because they weren't fleshed out characters, just a slideshow of different faces with familiar names. Same goes for the opening sequence...just a mildly interesting slideshow. A real opportunity was missed with the Club Foot, he was badly written and thus a key source of intrigue went unexplored. If Varys had been written like that, no one would be quoting that character years later. The series reminds me of that Leo film, The Revenant, everyone went crazy for it, and forgot it as soon as the media blitz and online sycophancy ended.
Club foot dude was weird!!
I actually got bored and turned off the episode when I noticed him staring at Alicent's feet after popping up in her room unexpected.
I was thinking how stupid this show had gotten and if I liked it or not.
Well I decided to flip it back on later that night and omg he was doing the thing and that's when I was like the SpongeBob meme: "Imma head out".
Just don't understand HBO and their weird perversions in GOT and HOTD
@@eazybleezy total inability to write complex characters 🤷🏽♀️
What a joke this series turned out to be, why didn’t they do it over seasons like GoT where the actual actors aged, they advanced about 100 years removing all female actors and all male actors apart from the King didn’t age a day hahaha
When I tried watching it, i had no fucking clue what was going on, I only watched game of thrones purely for Tyrion Lanister to note.
a refreshingly frank critique. it is good, no doubt, but good in the way fire and blood is good but it isn't ASOIAF. the pacing and lack of character development for many is problematic. how can you expect the audience to really care about the death of a key character in the final episode when we've barely go to know him. i'm not even sure they mentioned he was a dragonrider until that episode.
the same problem exists that late season GOT had. no fleshed out novels to go off
We saw the boys training with dragons in episode 6.
I just dislike this show so far after watching the 7th episode. The cast sucks. Vanilla. GOT had a stellar line up that made me route for everyone of them. Brandon was the only one in GOT that I didn’t like they should have killed him off honestly.
Now HOTD: I feel nothing for these characters. Not one.
Next problem: The gross scenes that are unnecessary and just gross 🤢. Why would I want to see a c-section? Or someone’s balls being cut off? They are doing it for some sort of shock appeal and it’s obvious.
3rd. Yes the story is rushed. I understand it’s trying to cover a certain time period quickly but it feels rushed and confusing.
Lastly: what’s up with the white dreads? They should have called this show House of Albinos. It’s so dumb looking.
Honestly it’s just boring so far and hopefully it gets better but after 7 episodes if it hasn’t grabbed my attention yet it probably never will.
Well in the words of Lebowsky: "that's just like... your opinion man".
Obviously the vast majority of the world doesn't agree with you. The show is a success in every way. cheers.
The vast majority of the world are easily duped by any old crap as long as it has the the name Game Of Thrones or Star Wars attached to it.
@@braxxian Not really. LoTR was a failure because it sucked, HoTD was a hit because of good storytelling. Only a complete braindead moron like you think that's being duped. Know how to differentiate between the things that are.
@@jptributer Lmao the way you valiantly defend this show in like a dozen comments is hilarious
@@claudio3518 😆 I don't have to defend it. The whole world awaits season 2.
I love how in the beginning of HOTD and GOT the realm gathers for the biggest celebration but like never gather for anything again.. just not in the budget i guess
From the first episode and I thought we were getting a brother v brother full scale war. You know not some drawn out drama.
I'm talking about 10k troops and 1 dragon v 2k troops and 3 dragons.
Not some killing crab people that I had no clue about.
And it's not only the time jumps... it's just not a good show. Prequels tend to be painfully corny and this is no exception. Especially when they have corny characters that connect with the characters of the regular GOT timeline. Oh get it Larys is like Varys.. .get it. Oh and Jason the knight... oh get it he's the knight that gets killed in game of thrones. It's like Back to the Future where it's like Gryff and Biff and it's the same actor, but in a silly comedy it works. And now firing up the second season they begin with something in the realm of a John Snow character. What a cheesefest. Now in this episode our word of the day is going to be duty... ok boys and girls... We're going to say it every other sentence for the entire episode. And the show repeats various taglines... I'm not going to be queen of the ashes... get it.
And what was up with the whole crab feeder thing in the first season. he'd just like pose in front of the camera twitching looking like a jackass... WTF? I theorize those who like the show want to like it more then they actually do.
The problem = Sara Hess. Why, without me knowing a single thing about the writer, did I know she was a gay woman just from watching a few episodes? That's the problem, it's "the message" vs art.
8 seasons of game of thrones WHAT A WASTE OF BANDWITH, SPACE.
Here's the problem: it's the book! They're going off a book that only provides "highlights" of the Targaryen dynasty and are forced to fill out where they can and that is a fatal miscalculation considering how HBO dropped the ball after they ran out of book material in GOT. I notice hints of wokeness popping up, violence is toned down... I also perceive the CGI to be of a lesser quality. Very disappointing.
Agreed. They don't let characters actually steep and grow, nor do the showrunners allow us to see them undergo this change. GoT S1-4 really shows why building them up, being patient pays DIVIDENDS when a character is either killed/something bad/amazing happens for them. And now with Season 2 being only 8 episodes, I don't understand why they can't do 10 eps because there's more than enough book material to cover 10 eps, even more if they allowed the characters to develop.
The only characters they managed to make interesting in S2 is Aegon. Rhaenyra's just...boring and stale at this point and Daemon's...I don't even know what's up with him. Aemond's a menace as always (the actor is killing it) but the Blacks feels like they've been defanged.
Pace was not a problem for me.
The problem is that not one character is worth caring about. GoT got me to care about the characters, and i was more invested in their stories. HotD is the opposite of that.
Danse is about two sides who do awful things to get the throne. But this is an obstacle because the series could've been about morally Grey characters that are likable. The series made the blacks the protagonists and the greens the antagonists. It's still not a problem because we could've compelling villains to oppose the heroes, right?
So, we're well into the second season and the show managed to decline from whatever shallow ditch it was in. It would make any difference if everybody would die, now. Cardboard pieces with long blonde hair would save the same purpose.
It was good until the first time skip.
The writing is more than decent but the pacing certainly is quite jarring. It's like when my little sister was trying to learn how to drive a manual transmission.
It is an overall enjoyable show, but I think it's being over praised due to recency bias.
I just don't enjoy it. From the wokery to the pacing to the illogical storylines. How far the throne has fallen..
Who could have predicted that this IP in particular would be subjected to piss poor writers?
The writing in this show is fine. In fact, it’s pretty good. It’s the pacing where the show suffers. But yeah, GOT S5-8 we’re plagued with D&D’s awful decisions.
Quit this after episode 5 ! After they changed the cast and im so happy I got out now , it’s going to be another GoT
@@momomono795 yeah you are right GoT was a masterpiece seasons 1 to 4 after that it went downhill got worse and worse... HotD is pathetic... They even made the Valyrians black rastas with white dreadlocks 🤷🏻♂️🤷🏻♂️
5:35 Rhaenyra wasn't married to Daemon at the time and was committing adultery against Leanor. She reprimanded Aegon for bringing shame to his wife, so she clearly feels some type of way about adultery and fornication.
She marries her daughter to her son because she doesn't want Haleana to marry Jacearys, co-signing that he's a legitimate heir. I think to marry Haleana to anyone other than the heir to the throne would have been suspicious. So she marries Haleana to someone who has a decent claim to the throne.
This was before she was even married though, not in the driftmark episode.
but then we would have had 2 or 3 seasons of bland character dev with no action. you cant please everyone
exactly. I don't find the time jumps confusing at all.
It’s less about pleasing everyone, and more about giving characters more depth in your story instead of making some of them feel so one dimensional. You can have action in your episodes, I never said in my video that you couldn’t. All I said is that a couple more episodes to flesh out the characters in that timeframe would be good. Instead of the show trying to go shove all the character development they had in a two year span, and it’s all being shoved in an hour long episode. Game of Thrones did this well, they had character development, and action. Either you’ve completely misunderstood my video, or you barely watched it.
Confusing is only a small part of it. Like I said to the original poster, either you completely misinterpreted my video, did watch the whole thing and decided to cherry-pick one thing from my argument, or you only watched a bit of my video.
@@introvertedrobot name me a main character that feels one dimensional. Or any character.
All of them outside of Dameon, The no longer with us king and the queen who never queened..
THANK YOU. I really appreciate someone finally saying this besides myself explaining why this show is terrible to my loved ones. I think the biggest problem with this show is it’s trying to capture the magic of early season GoT while hoping we just go along with the journey of the characters without actually showing the fuckin journey. This is all proven meaningless when I can’t be bothered to remember who everyone is after each time skip
It sucks. pretty big problem
its fucking terrible! it's not exceptionally written. It's spotty at best. The costumes, acting, cgi, pacing, casting...all shite
The acting is strong. The Costumes are on the same level as GOT, the CGI is better than anything on GOT, I doubt you know the difference between good and bad writing tbh
Yes but it has the name GOT so naturally the fanboys will sing it’s praises. Most people are fools.
@@braxxian naturally idiots, like you, will be idiots
The acting( most of) and costumes are decent but the dialogue and writing is sub- par.
The show being adapted from a unfinished book probably factors in as well Daemon and Sir Cristin cole don't seem to age either 🤔
Wah women can't be king. Wah I have to marry the king. Wah I have to have this kid. Wah I have to raise this kid. Wah I want my kid to be king. Wah my kids are dead.
Boom, just saved you so much time.
😂
Coming as a viewer who is watching the show much later... I may stop after watching Episode 6. No disrespect to the actors and actresses, but these feel like different people. I don't feel like I know them, so it's difficult to be invested in anything they do.
Which makes sense! It's like if you loose touch with somebody at age 17 and then you cross paths with them again when they are aged 30. You will know some things about them, but we are different people when we are 17 than we are at aged 30. If as soon as you meet them after having been away for so long you're introduced to a lot of the drama going on in their lives, you similarly might be inclined to go away and not care what they do.
Many would say that the show does not insult our intelligence with the time skips and we can fill the gaps.
For me though, these time jumps are just playing it safe.
Supposedly J.R.R.Martin is more involved in these series. So they could not create scenes that fleshed out the characters?
Usually creating such scenes out of your imagination is not a good thing. But you had the creator himself to help you!
GOT's most interesting parts were not the visual spectacle but the politics.
In House of the dragon I was dying of boredom in most of the episodes. The only thing that actually kept me watching were the visuals. Completely the opposite from what I watched GOT for.
I am also worried about the racial politics. I did cringe at first but thankfully they've used good actors to make me not care.
Honestly, the ending of season one gave me the interest to watch the next season, but it's mostly on the visuals. I am afraid though that it will fall in the pit of politics, so I will be negative till it proves me wrong. Basically till the end.
And only fools would expect a good ending if they have read or even watched GOT.
Spoilers: Jeffrey Baratheon tells Marjorie Tayrell what will happen to Rhaenyra... If you have been paying attention.
Agree on your take about the pacing, It was comical at times.also, daemon's character is a huge letdown imo.he is impressively boring and pretentious, to the point where i find his scenes hard to get through.thankfully performances by viserys, alicent, rhaenyra, and otto make up for it , along with scenes of amond and vhagar.
Better Call Saul. Proper pacing. Proper character and story development. Masterclass.
I agree 💯 with this I didn't feel any emotional impact 😭 with Laynas death because her adult self I don't know her seing her ride a dragon 🐉 and one or two conversations with Daemon and her two daughters wasn't enough for me to be in invested in her character
It’s dull.
it just abit dull cuz there is no witt tp the dialogue I got bored
Character development is horrible. I cant follow the storyline because of lack of interests in any of them and perhaps the time jumps have all to do with it. Tuning out
I believe that the House of the Dragon has a lot of potential to be phenomenal series like Game of Thrones. Despite the show’s issues, it’s still fairly immersive to watch. I feel like actresses Emma D’Arcy and Olivia Cooke delivered great performances. Thanks for this review. You really are talented when it comes to this.
Indeed, even at its lower points of the show I was still thoroughly invested when it came to its characters and plot. The actors are all pretty great with what they’ve been given, and of course the stars who really take the spot light is Olivia Cooke and Emma D’Arcy! Also, thank you!
@@introvertedrobot Alicent wasnt against Rheanyra and Daemon becase od incest but that IT wasnt in marriege
It’s a lame version of GOT, nothing more. GOT had at least 4 parallel storyline’s running in its early seasons, this show has 1.
@@braxxian in the 2 season there would be Jace on his journey , Dragonstone and Driftmark , Kings Landing , Harrenhall and Riverlands campaing , Oldtown and the Reach campaing
@@braxxian and they could also do other B storylines like Jorfey and Rheana in the Vale, Joana Lannister and the Ironborn ...
I'm writing this paragraph after I finished my comment below, it came off more agresive than I intended, but I won't change it because i can't convey my harmless tone, and also I really do mean this. I hope you read it and see it in a constructive way. I see you have some subscribers and you might want to understand your target audience so it might help you improve in the future. Maybe.
-------------------------------------
None of these are problems. It's always somewhat irritating when people confuse things that went over their heads with "inconsistencies". For instance, the show makes clear that what motivates Daemon to end the war is getting help from his brother, which he doesn't want for reasons too long to explain. He didn't defeat them with ease, if that is what you understood, I think you didn't get it. He makes a bold move and risks his life, he almost died. But he needed to end the war, he gambled big and paid off which is not the same as "defeated them with ease".
As a book reader I totally understand the time jumps, I actually don't see how they could have done it any other way. The story takes place throughout decades, I really don't know how they could have done it differently. I don't agree with your opinion. The irony is that these 10 hours of House of the Dragon represented 70 pages of the book. In comparisson, GOT season 1 was more than 800 pages. They took their time and developed the characters in HOTD, that's why it's getting so much praise, they are far more developed than the book, I honestly don't know what else was missing, according to you. If they had done it "slower" as you suggest, it would have bored the general audience and then we go in circles. Is it too rush? or too slow? for whom? I felt it was perfectly balanced and fleshed the characters out much more than the book.
And again, other things you didn't understand and pass them off as "contradictions". To quote you... "let me explain": Alicent wasn't angry about Rhaenyra's relationship with her uncle (because she actually DIDN'T have anything with her uncle, it was with Cristen Cole!! oh man, did you like... watch the show?), it wasn't the "potential" incest that bothered her when she confronted Rhaenyra, it was that she did something forbitten which is to lose her maidenhead before getting married and SPECIALLY that she then lied about it , and also that Rhaenyra gets to sleep with whoever she wants and do whatever she wants, which coincidentally and also brilliantly she learned trying to emulate her uncle Daemon (unlike Alicent who has to sleep with a creepy old man and did everything that she was told). This actually gets SPELLED OUT by Alicent in Episode 7 "where is duty, where is sacrifice...". She is not an hypocrite for marrying her son and daugher. As someone already corrected you, Alicent marries Halaena with Aegon as a response to Rhaenyra's proposal to marry Haleana with Jace. Again, YOU didn't get it or got it wrong and assume is a "problem", it isn't, you just have to pay attention.
"Did she want to be Queen or was she nothing more than a pawn to her father?" ... Again, did you watch the show?? this literally gets Yelled out at the camera... "I wanted whatever you impressed upon me to want"... is like, what show are you reviewing??
"Why is Criston such an asshole?" really? another thing that gets SPELLED OUT. Spoilers: it wasn't because Rhaenyra rejected him, it was his honour that got tainted, and honour is everything to him, as was made PLAINLY clear in the show, he even wanted to die afterwards, that's how important his honour is to him. He actually proposed to her to save his honour, not because he loved her. And if you think I know this because I read the book. None of this is in the book.
The pacing doesn't feel jarring to the audience. It felt jarring to YOU because you are apparently not paying attention.
Rhaenys not Dracaryng the greens in episode 9 was not an odd choice of writing, and the reasoning is not dumb just for the fact that, that's not the complete reason. It's the whole implication of murdering an entire family, hers! A better question would be, why should she do it?? There hasn't been a declaration of war, they didn't steal the throne from her, there is the whole "Kinslayer" thing in Westeros that if you are not aware of, you will with Aemond, one of the reasons he looked the way he did after Vhagar killed lucerys. All she wanted was to escape, because she knew they would keep her prisioner for her dragon. She even makes clear that she suspects Rhaenyra of killing her son, why would she ruin her life and reputation for her then?? and also, it's plain murder, she will have to pay for it, in this world you don't get to kill someone without permission from a superior authority, most likely Rhaenyra would have punished her if not execute her for it. That's her family too, and Viserys just died showing how much they wanted them together... and Rhaenys just kills them? why?? they are villains to you, but why to Rhaenys? she has her own House and her own grandkids, Rhaenys has no way of knowing what's comming, she has no dog in the fight at that moment, and she makes it clear later that she doesn't know at first who to support, if anyone at all.
This is the first time I felt so compelled to comment something on a Video because I don't agree with ANYTHING you say. Now, to each its own, if you didn't like it you didn't like it, I'm fine with it, it doesn't bother me, it's just NOTHING you say is right. like, nothing. Again, I'm not judging taste. Objectively, nothing was right. If you didn't like the time jumps, that's fine, i'm not arguing that, but your reasoning is so off. No wonder it was so jarring if you don't pay attention. You ask irrelevant questions to the show, you are the audience, you don't dictate what's being told to you, you don't ask questions that the story doesn't prompt you to ask. Did Visery wear dipers? I don't know, why didn't they show it??... like that.. it's just... I don't know. One last time, I have no problem with you not liking a show I like, it's just all your reasoning is factually wrong. And I needed to say something.
And if you would like to make a video with me discussing "peacefully" and "academically" the pacing of the show I'm all for it. Who knows, maybe you find something new for your channel. On my part, everyone I know is crazy about the show and it sounds appealing to have a conversation with someone with a different opinion. Let me know. JP.
Hello, sorry for the late response, but I was a bit preoccupied! And all good about the comment, all constructive criticism is welcome. I would be a bit of a hypocrite if I myself would have a problem with aggressive constructive criticism! Criticism helps me improve, so I hope you know that I do use this kind of thing to improve my content!
That is true, he did want men for the war, but didn’t get them. I did mention that he got an arrow through the chest, and said that other than they “defeated them with ease”. What I was trying to say was how long it took for him to go through with killing the crab feeders. 2 years after the events is sort of understandable, if they were extremely difficult. But Daemon managed to hold them off for an extremely long period of time, and other than that injury which is pretty common for people in wars in this universe, he managed to beat them with a lot of ease on his part.
Fair enough, that is your right as a viewer to think so. I haven’t read any of the books personally, I’m a newbie as one might say haha, so I’ll have to give those a read! I had no idea that HOTD’s part in the book was so short, but kinda proves my point. Since there wasn’t much to go off of, there wasn’t much screen time to show. I’m glad you are glad with the way it was handled, however, I found it to be very disappointing. My point is that the episodes needed more time to breathe, they were going from timeline to timeline way too fast. And it feels jarring when you are just getting used to seeing one piece of scenery, and getting used to the characters in how they are, and then the next episode it cuts a few years later, and you are spent with some of the episode playing catch up. It breaks my immersion as an audience member, and hence part of the reason it feels jarring. I’m not saying that they make another 10 episodes dedicated to each timeline, just an episode for each timeline, so it gives it more breathing room. And for my taste, it is way too fast. And by looking at a lot of the comments, it would seem that people would agree with this assessment for the most part. Of course, not everyone is correct in constructive criticism, but since you were asking with whom, I thought I might answer. And again, how you feel about the pacing is completely okay, however, I do have my problems with this show as well.
This is the first point of yours I actually agree with, since I did get A TON of things wrong about that. While I am only human, it is quite embarrassing for me to get something that wrong.
While this did get said, I didn’t deny that. I thought that more of a conflicting moral stance from Alicent was necessary. Hence an episode to flesh out her stance, because each time jump she’s going to think differently about this. Her being conflicted about this would have been way more interesting than a few one liners about it.
With Criston I probably did miss a few things, but my argument still stands on me wanting more development into his downfall. And saying that Criston didn’t love Rhaenrya is kind of ridiculous. There have been multiple moments between the two that resemble some spark between the two. Especially during episode 3, where they share that moment together around the campfire. And it felt pretty naturally headed in that direction, especially during the climax of the end of episode 4. Sure, it was for honour. But saying that he only wanted to marry Rhaenrya only out of honour is a bit of a stretch, since from the development shown, I would say he has a connection with her too. Which is why I mentioned the stuff about Criston becoming evil because of that was a bit ridiculous, however I did miss out on that detail about his honour so apologies.
Again, I’m not the only one who thinks the pacing feels jarring at points. There are multiple people in the comments, online, and friends I’ve talked to who can agree with my criticism. Are they right? Well that really depends on your perspective of how you view media. The criticism is valid, it’s more or less a matter of choosing if you think it’s valid in your eyes.
Again, my real question was “why did she even break into the room in the first place? What was the point?” I get not killing the people you know because it might cause an all out war, but they are already coming after her for being a traitor. Plus, when she did break into the room with that dragon, chances are she killed a few civilians. So what was the point of breaking into that room if not to kill the family?
Fair enough, I’ve felt compelled to comment on videos as well. If you didn’t agree, that’s fine. If you think my video is not well argued, then there’s nothing I can do about that. This is my stance on your criticisms, and hopefully we can mutually agree on the stance. I did pay attention to the show, however, there were a few details I missed. I wouldn’t exactly call my questions “irrelevant”, since they do relate to plot and characters, but I understand what you mean. Since you think I’m wrong when it comes to it. I feel like you are using false equivalencies to the situation though, since I am asking questions where I am questioning characters motives, and feels a bit weird when you are comparing something like “Why is Criston Cole an asshole?” To “Did Viserys wear diapers? I don’t know??? They didn’t show it!” Some of your reasoning is right, like that one thing about Alicent and Rhaenrya, but some of the points you made against me felt like you fundamentally misunderstood my arguments.
While I would not like to make a video with you, I kind of have a rule about collabs or debates on videos. But I am more than happy to debate with you in the comment section if you have a problem or query! I’m glad you and your friends are loving the show, and I hope you are having a good day! Nice to hear your defenses and critiques, again, constructive criticism is welcome as always!
- Introverted Robot/John.
@@introvertedrobot I kinda want to take back my agresiveness on my comment, because I always respected how you feel about the show. So thank you for answering and being a good sport. Now I want to watch more of your videos even if we don't agree. So let me respond some of your last points:
As far as the crabfeeder war at the stepstones, in the book it goes in detail explaining how this army spent 2 years mainly avoiding the Dragons, and they were not the first. The seven Kingdoms are not actually 7 in this time in history for that very same reason, Aegon the conqueror never really conquered Dorne, but that's another long story. I truly believe you didn't get that whole sequence, based on what I understood from your comment. Daemon did not want men for the war, he did not want help from Viserys, again, it's a character study moment, but in short, it was pride. So when he got the letter from Viserys about help on the way, he beat up the messenger and almost died fishing out the crabfeeder, because as Viserys actually says in the scene before "He would rather die than ask for help". I never got for a second that he defeated the crabfeeder army with ease, but rather he took a big risk, it could have gone wrong but didn't. That's it.
About the pacing. Listen, I respect the way you feel about it, I really do. But it's subjective, which is why I can't argue. Yes, I know some people feel the way you do, but have you looked around? HOTD is the hottest show of the year, and the vast, vast mayority of critics and viewers love the show, even "the critical thinker" who hates everything, is praising it 100%, watch his video.
I feel they balanced it great, but I think it is mainly because I know what's coming and I know this was all build up. For example, some people did complain about the lack of Harwing Strong and Leana Valaryon, characters some people would have liked to see more of. But I know how irrelevant they are in the overall arc of the story so I know we saw more than enough of them. This is not the "adventures of Leana" show, it's the dance of dragons so they did what they were required to do.
Yes, I like that you say "for your taste..." because that is the truth, it's your taste. I am confident that if they had added 2 or 3 more episodes, most people would have complained that it's going too slow, and it doesn't get to the conflict soon enough. So, who should they please? this show it's made for the common viewer. But knowing the characters and what's coming, not only did the show not leave any question unanswered as far as characters motivation goes, but they answered much more than the book at this point. Your complain about the pacing indicates that there are some questions unanswered, I would like to know which ones are these. I never had problems with the time jumps, and I know the vast mayority of the audience didn't either. Just look at all the praise.
as far as Alicent: "I thought that more of a conflicting moral stance from Alicent was necessary." this would have been way too redundant. For starters, she didn't even need to say that to Otto, about the fact she never even knew what she wanted, because she was always manipulated by him. We saw it from the very beginning that she was a pawn. Her father used her from the very beginning "go visit the king and wear your mother's dress" "Aegon must be king, Rhaenyra is a woman" I mean... more clear than that?
Everything was clear about Alicent and shown with every action she commited, we can write an essay about Alicent to describe her entire character in Season 1, that's how complete it was. John, really, I trully believe that all these questions and things you say you "needed to see" are shown in the episodes, I actually don't understand how you didn't see it.
"Criston didn’t love Rhaenrya is kind of ridiculous" Why? was there any indication of this? just because they sat at the campfire together? he never showed interest in her other than his duty. And instead, during this very scene, HE EXPLICITLY states how honour is what he is about, and that Rhaenyra changed his entire life in a second by naming him Kingsguard, which he says it's the "greatest honour" ever achieved in the history of his family. Like, really... how much more spelled out does it need to be? Then the scene in the ship cements his character dimension, with how he decided to propose and how he reacted at her rejection and counter offer to turn him into his side lover, he screams crying at her "this white cloak is the only thing my family ever achieved and I betrayed it!! I broke my oath of chastity wuaaaa!" I mean he actually says it!! if he really loved her, then why not go through with it?? why not do what Harwing Strong did? who probably did love Rhaenyra. see the difference? Christon didn't love her, he is a man of honour, like many men in those days. A kind of honour that doesn't exist anymore. Which is why i believe some people don't get it. It's a different Zeitgeist.
I promise you, the VAST mayority of people didn't feel it was Jarring, I believe it is because most people understood what you didn't.
Rhaenys: “why did she even break into the room in the first place? What was the point?” ok, John... hear me out. You missed something, I'm not being agressive, but there is something in this scene that went over your head. Now I see the problem.
Rhaenys did not break into the room. They were at the Dragon pit. Did you not realise that? this is why she smiles when she sees that the crowd, along with her, are being pushed into the Dragon pit, because like she said seconds before "I won't leave Maelys behind". The Dragon pit is where she wanted to go to collect her Dragon, which was also her only means to escape. "there is a beast beneath the board". The dragon was already there and she had not other choice but to destroy the floor because that was the only exit. She wanted to escape, that's all. This was FAIRLY obvious and didn't even think that "she broke into the room" until you mentioned it. I don't think I heard anyone who interpreted it that way. And even if they call her a traitor now, she has her dragon, so she feels much safer now, in any case they were keeping her prisioner ilegally, so one might say she was justify to leave, she had no obligation to them.
I do feel you either asked irrelevant questions because it's not part of the show, or you ask questions (mostly these questions) that have been answered by the show. Like, why christon cole is an asshole? answered. Why Alicent...? answered. Why Rhaenys...? answered, answered and answered. This is why the pace is fine, all important info about the characters is there, and I already saw that what you didn't get were things you missed. So, I don't see the problem really. I do understand all your arguments, they are just factually wrong. But if you didn't like the season. 100% respect for that. You can like and dislike what you want.
Keep it up. I may say too much, but I'm just passionate. Don't get me wrong.
Wonderful discussion guys kudos
season 2 wont be back until 2024...
The problem with this series is also the feminist agenda. All male characters are shown to be evil, while female characters are victims and manipulated by males. They took away all the bad things the female characters do in the books and added to the bad things of the male characters. Aegon is a generic copy of Joffrey becomes a rapist in the series when in the books he is not and is also sadistic, Viserys kills his wife choosing a son through an operation, Daemon beats his wife Rhaenyra, etc.
What are you on mate? Saying that either gender of character is good or bad in this show is fucking pushing it. It’s just not that black and white. Daemon is a prime example of this, he’s a selfish asshole for the first half of the show, and slowly redeems himself a bit more throughout while still being a bit of an asshole. Alicent while an awful person, does have a tragic side to her. Visery’s while having his flaws, was still a decent person at the end of the day. Saying that all the male characters in this show are bad people, and the female characters victims is not only a misunderstanding of the show, but if the characters themselves.
@@introvertedrobot Look at the House of The Dragon series, all the male characters are shown as evil, selfish, manipulative, cruel, vengeful. The show's producers themselves have spoken of wanting to put feminist themes into the series. Alicent is not really evil and was just manipulated by her father and become bitter because she lives in a "patriarchal" world. She also did not want the throne for her son, but upon hearing the prophecy of Viserys in her death. Rhaenyra has her husband killed Laenor in the books, also Vaemond for calling your children a bastard. Everything bad that the female characters do in the books, the series takes away.
@@introvertedrobot There is no Cersei Lannister, evil female character because yes. All female characters in House of The Dragon are portrayed as victims who do bad things because they have been manipulated by men or because they live in a "patriarchal world".
@@introvertedrobot House of the Dragon and the art of choosing the most charitable interpretation of the book's events for female characters, while also choosing the worst for male characters.
Spoilers!!!
It's no secret that HOTD would always be a tricky adaptation due to the nature of the source material and its unreliable narrators. They really go out of their way to choose the most charitable interpretation of events that could reflect poorly on female characters.
There's a lot of ambiguity in the book, so it's understandable that the show can't be ambiguous that often and has to pick a headcanon eventually (even though I believe there are events that they could have absolutely been handled with in a more vague way, like Rhea's death. All it took was one character giving Daemon condolences on the death of his wife and someone mentioning the circumstances of her death. There was no need to show the event itself, it was more than possible to suggest Daemon might have been involved in a conversation with Rhea. right direction), but when these headcanons often benefit the female characters or even choose interpretations that aren't implied in the source material (Rhaenyra faking Laenor's death, Alicent misinterpreting Viserys' final wishes), it's hard not to raise an eyebrow. .
Let's start with Alicent. There's nothing to suggest that she didn't share her father's ambition in the book. She marries Viserys at age 18, older than many characters capable of great deeds and ambitions in the main series, such as Daenerys and Robb Stark. Or even Margaery Tyrell, who doesn't seem to have the same power as the previous two and is in fact a pawn in her family's game, but still seems extremely ambitious in her own right and eager to enjoy the position that awaits her as Queen of the Seven Kingdoms. However, the show decides to portray her as an anxious and subservient teenager who is mostly a product of her father's social ascension, forced into a marriage she never wanted. Her biggest sins are...feeling betrayed by her teenage friend who lied to her about having sex, making a woman who's just given birth walk (which is petty, but nothing too bad. And Rhaenyra might as well refuse. If it weren't for your ego) and threatening a child with a knife, which is terrible, but given the situation, understandable.
Episode 9 is the biggest offense, however. While Alicent is extremely excited about her son's coronation in the book, the show gives us an Alicent who doesn't know and is angry that the King's Council planned to support her son's claim behind her back. She immediately calls her father, saying that she was a pawn in his game all along. She feels conflicted about usurping Rhaenyra's throne and shows great concern for her safety ("Maybe the whore dies in childbirth", in her own words, is how much she cared for Rhaenyra in the books). They even went so far as to write a scene with Alicent misunderstanding Viserys' words to justify her desire for Aegon on the throne, as if she was just following her husband's will (this never happens in the source material). A stark contrast to Alicent in the book. I understand Alicent's motivation in the books and genuinely believe that many readers like to ignore that she had legitimate reasons to fear that Rhaenyra and Daemon would hurt their children and grandchildren, but she is still a woman who seems very ambitious in her own right and is well leaving her husband's body to rot for days while she plots. The show, in the other hand, decided to have her portrayed as a subjugated woman in conflict with everything going on, who mostly supports her son's coronation because that's Viserys' last wish.
Then there's Rhaenyra. What exactly are her flaws in the series? Sure, she's a rebellious teenager, she has premarital sex, but does anyone expect anything else from teenagers? She is shown to be willing to make more concessions than she is actually willing to make in the book.
About Laenor and Rhaenyra, the show portrays her as a devoted wife who tried her best to make a marriage without physical attraction work, stuck with an erratic husband who didn't mind putting so much effort into his marriage. Like she did. The fact is, it's the writers choosing the most flattering interpretation of the female character again. They even made Rhaenyra say that they had tried to fulfill their duties and have children, but to no avail. Still, not only do closeted gays have children all the time, but there are methods for having children without sex. So if Rhaenyra had 3 children with Sir Harwin, there's a strong possibility that she did it because that's what she wanted, because she thought she could get away with it.
There is also the possibility that she participated in Laenor's death. Sure, you could say it's all green propaganda, but it might as well be true. The series once again decides to give her a flattering outcome, blatantly changing the narrative of the books and having Laenor survive and fake her death with the help of Rhaenyra and Daemon.
They also decided not to have Rhaenyra involved in Vaemond Velaryon's death after he questions her children's legitimacy and accuses her of being an adulteress. As she orders Daemon to kill him and give the dragon his carcass, the series decides to portray the act as Daemon's sole responsibility. Honestly, I won't be surprised if Daemon is solely responsible for Blood and Cheese, doing it all without Rhaenyra's knowledge.
Finally, we have the men in the story. Just like in the books, Daemon is considered cool. Still, they don't shy away from choosing to interpret events that reflect poorly on him, such as killing his first wife. But they also downplay Rhaenyra's involvement in certain events, blaming Daemon, such as killing Vaemond Velaryon. There's Otto and his unstoppable ambition, so they can't even be bothered to include his dialogue during the Green Council about his fear of Rhaenyra and Daemon hurting his family to avoid challenges to her succession in the books. There's Criston Cole being a brute and killing people without consequences, which doesn't really happen in the book. For example, he kills Laenor's boyfriend in a tournament originally, which is very different from killing him out of a wedding and not facing consequences, as deaths are a possibility in tournaments. There's Aegon being a rapist, which might not be that far-fetched, but extremely questionable. There's Larys being a pervert.
They saw this rivalry between two extremely dangerous and cunning women who lacked influence, conscience and agency in their respective factions, who both had valid reasons to support their own claims, and decided to turn it into a story of two friends divided by a "patriarchy" because one of them was brainwashed into maintaining the status quo by the bad men around him.
TL; DR: The showrunners are intentionally downplaying Rhaenyra and Alicent's agency and involvement in certain events that would make them look bad, choosing the most flattering interpretation of events from the book when there is a choice. When there isn't, they create one that isn't even implied in the book. At the same time, they always opt for the worst interpretation available to male characters, the one that makes them look like monsters, the one that makes them solely responsible for actions that were also motivated by female characters in the source material.
@@serdastrevas4114agreed
I thought episode 10 was going to be the end cos they hurried the show forward 🤔but 3 more seasons🤔and they could have started with the conquest instead and went on from that... of course people are gonna watch its George RR Martin. Maybe they were worried it would not be a success and thats why they hurried with the story. How old are they all suppose to be now anyways?
You talk too slow, had to accelerate. And go straigth to you conclusion, 15mn is too long for something that can be told in 1 sentence.
Pacing was the cost for show excitement and ultimately engagement. They took a decent hit so they didn't get drowned. They had a difficult task but I'm hooked so good on them. They nailed it. Not concerned in the slightest
House of the Dragon, not Dragons and the original theme is not the successor, it's the predecessor. There I said it, yep, I did. It had to be said.
Yeah that was a pretty bad mistake, I said Dragons because it felt less weird to say for me, so I apologise for the improper wording of the name. And yes, I did mix up the words successor and predecessor. Sorry for these jarring mistakes, thank you for pointing them out to me!
@@introvertedrobot No worries, I was just being extra Nit Picky. Which seems to be the norm these days.
@@introvertedrobot what does jarring mean?
@@forsurematt9077 Definition of jarring: a jarring sight, sound, or experience that is so different or unexpected that it has a strong and unpleasant effect on something or someone.
I actually enjoyed the show more as it went on. They wanted to end the season where they did so the time jumps are necessary. I know you won't agree with me, but its just my opinion.
I think the show is pretty good, but I think it could’ve been done better.
Clearly this crybaby has not read the book at all. This is based on a history book and it jumps through time a lot because it's a generational war. You can't spend time with everything when the book did not dwelve into that, and it's just a setup and buildup for the Dance. The characters were clearly fleshed out and we saw that in those episodes with time passing in.
I said I haven’t read the books ;-; I said it man, did you not watch the video?
@@introvertedrobot Even with the show, it was clear it's a generational war, punk. They can't spend an entire season on two to three events and not do jumps because that;s how the story is in the book. Do you even understand how things work?
@@LauraGS564 I understand it’s a generational war, that’s not my problem. The problem is that it jumps around too fast, and a couple more episodes would’ve fixed the jarring pacing.
@liam Gaysy I’m pretty sure you can make up stuff and include it in the story because that’s how creating a story and content works. The book this is based on was created in such a fashion since you obviously are not aware of how things working. So STFU punk and go drink your fanboy koolaid.
@@Generallyannoyed2024 making stuff up which GRRM didn't write was the undoing of Game of Thrones. You can't just invent storylines and make a cohesive storytelling way. But I don't presume a mother less dumbfuck to understand that who doesn't know anything about the books.
The book was written in unreliable narrator way and there are gaps to fill which they did. That doesn't mean they can just invent storylines just like that lol. You clearly don't understand how writing works and if your slut dead mother would have sent you to school, you'd understand common sense. Why don't you go back to your sorry excuse of a life and be miserable?
No, its awesome.
I know it’s awesome, I gave it an 8/10 mate. I only said that there were a couple problems I had with the show.
The characters are boring as hell, it’s hard to connect to a character and feel anything for them
If you were seriously confused about the time jumps, which they make clear every single time then I think you’re just not very smart Lil Bro
In what way was I wrong about the time jumps? Because if I did make this big of a mistake while writing this video, I’d like to know.
And your just not very polite, but you are very arrogant. Lil bro.
@@introvertedrobot Bro didn’t have the mental capacity to pay attention to time skips and is acting confused lmaooo
@@alexdarkz3339 Well I did, but I would like to see your argument on why I’m wrong other than “lmao I’m right and your wrong”. You’re not elaborating on anything, it just makes you seem weird when I’m requesting for you to elaborate on why I’m wrong, and you think that’s a weakness and won’t explain why.
@Alex Darkz since “elaborate” is a big word that’s taking you two weeks to decipher. I thought I would let you know it means “to explain”.